Two 7mm Cartridges You May Not Know
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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6.5x55, 7x64, 8x57 and 9.3x62 some of the best chamberings out there. All old and all very hard to beat.
Johan, I've been shooting a custom made Carl Gustav M96 in 6.5x55 since 2000. Wonderful cartridge for deer and hogs.
@@easttexan2933 If the game is not too large or too far away, there is no reason to "bigger". Happy hunting!
@@johanlindh737 spot on analysis.
@D R Yeah, I know. You're "missing out".
The 35 Whelen is fairly close to 9.3x62 too with the added bonus of pistol size bullets for plinking and practice.
The same to you.
I have both a custom made 6,5x55 m96 which was originally made in Germany in 1900 before they were made in Sweden, and also handmade Bühag combination gun in 7x65R and 16/70 with an extra set of shotgun barrels in 16/70. Love both cartridges and the 16 gauge does the job for everything i use it for.
Ron, you..Sir..are one of the most practical folks doing 'gun writing' I've encountered. You give credit where it's due and you aren't a 'know it all'...even though you do know a ton... thank you once again for your overview of some great cartridges!
Thank you sir.
I think it’s because he’s a gentleman and he reflects an era in which humility was much more common. Just my nickel’s worth. Take care and best of luck in the field.
You inspire a lot of viewers sir from your videos
Any cartridge with a powder capacity of the 30-06 is a great hunting cartridge. Of all the calibers on a O6 size case , I have to say the 7mm caliber is a hair better than all other bore sizes for all around soft skin game hunting. The Germans had it right a long time ago. I do not even own a 280 or 7x64. Just cannot justify the cost when I own a 30-06 and 270. Knowing what I know now I would have bought the 280 my serious game getting and a 257 Roberts as the light fun gun to shoot for white tail deer and varmints.
I agree the 280 is better than the 270, but if one has a 270 there’s aren’t any good reasons to buy a 280. Of course if one has a pile of cash that would be reason enough. Take care and best of luck on future hunts.
I have a 260 remington and the 280 AI for exactly the same reason.
@firehouse6226 The 260 is a sleeper cartridge better than any 6mm , 25 caliber and the popular 6.5 Need more. Probably the best deer/varmit cartridge on the planet. If you only hunt deer size game, it would be all you need and predators like coyotes. The ballistics and power cover a lot of ground. If you are a handloader , you can neck down the common 308 brass. Makes it affordable over the other 6.5s. And good barrel life. Save the 280 for bigger game at longer range.
Finally! You talked about the 7x64! It is WIDELY used in France and is a fantastic caliber! Very close to 7mm rem mag, less recoil and a bit less velocity, but still VERY capable. You can often find "hot" loads on the market, especially from RWS. I've taken many animals with it, 205lbs wild boar shot quartering away, round entered in front of the back leg, exited at the neck, dead on the spot.. Stopped a running 170lbs wild boar a 160yds with a lung shot... I've so many stories with this caliber
I'm SURE americans would have adopted this caliber if he'd hit the market 20 years ago.
They didn't really love the .280 rem, despite it being pretty much the same thing. Another highly underrated round.
@@boredboiseboy 7x64 is usually loaded a bit hotter than .280
Both are good IMO, but 7x64 offers better performance (usually)
I have only one hunting rifle, it is a Brno in 7x64, I have taken kudu , orex and wharthog with it, no problem, .
It hits with authority but real modest recoil.
Interesting video. During the recent ammo shortage, my local Sportsman's Warehouse had 40-60 boxes of 7X64 Brenneke on the shelf. Thanks, Ron!
It isn't that hard to find 7x64 ammo even in the Pacific NW.
There are a few companies making M1 Grand barrels in 7x64 I have seen on the internet
I think the 280 and the 260 both got short changed!! They both never caught on . I have had a 260 for years. Takin many deer with it . May friend has a 280 and he loves it . But for some reason they are not used in main stream hunting. But great calibers !!
.260 rips. Great cartridge.
ua-cam.com/video/RAcWDy-UXtU/v-deo.html
I believe the reason the 280 has never been popular is the 270 was already on the scene and Remington introduced the 7MM Rem Mag. I’m a huge 280 fan for mulies and pronghorn since I killed my first of each with a 280 shooting 140 Partitions. Take care and good luck on future hunts.
Remington, at it again, can't sell their named cartridges..
7x64 was my very first hunting caliber for many years. Very potent round: accurate and powerful, it served me very well for driven hunts and stalking as well, taking easily running roe, red deers and nice wild boars and accurate shots stalking foxes.
Ron, I'm sure you're familiar with Finn Aagaard, the former Kenyan PH and transplanted American who wrote for "American Rifleman" and "American Hunter." My favorite book of his is "Guns and Hunting," in which he has a chapter on the .280 Remington. His light rifle as a PH in Africa was the 7x64 Brenneke which he considered ballistically identical to the .280. He stated that it would take anything in Africa short of the big dangerous game.
Very true. That being said Finn Aagard had high praise for the .30-06. IIRC as a young man he started hunting with a 7x57.
Fine cartridges for the discerning gentleman. Similar ballistics to the 280 Remington. So best of the 7 mm' s Being 105 years old has stood the test if time. With the new powders and copper bullets a new century is guaranteed. Always found in the highest quality rifles.
And it's actually been around for 130 years now!
Old cartridges really are what caused me to start reloading many decades ago. I look at all the bullet diameters that have been wildcats in the 30-06 case alone and it blows the mind. If there is a case made, wildcatters have tried many different diameter bullets to come up with the next best mouse trap cartridge. I have a 6.5-06 I built on a Mauser action. My pet load is a 140gr Nosler Accubond chronographed at 2958 fps. Impressive performance. One of my "friend" rifles (used by friends and family who want to hunt at my place and did not bring a rifle) is a pawn store Bubba sporterized 8x57. I did a lot of cleaning on it, put a nice aftermarket barrel on it, Byod's stock, and left it in 8x57, drilled and tapped it for a scope, and it stays sighted in with a 150gr Hornady load that runs on the slower side at about 2700fps. Everyone that uses that gun does very well on hogs and deer. There are all sorts of 7mm cartridges out there that work nicely. If your shooting is 200yds and closer it is hard to beat the 7mm-08 or 7x57. Easy recoil and plenty for deer. For Elk and larger, you probably want a bit bigger cartridge.
Love these videos Ron. Never had a Breneke. If I find one used in good shape I might have to take it home.
The 7mm-08 and the 7x57 are not what I would specifically take to elk hunt but when I have both a deer and elk license I take a 275 Rigby and have harvested my two largest elk ever with it, both large six point bulls requiring only one well placed shot. I do however take a 30-06 or .35 Whelen when I anticipate a longer shot. I can make the magazine of a 30-06 size function with 7x57 cartridges but I can not make a magazine for a 7mm size cartridge function with 30-06 casess. I wanted to put a .35 Whelen barrel on a Spanish Mauser action I have.
Great comment! Personally I use a .308 Bolt Action for elk and sometimes for mule deer. I also use a .44 Magnum Lever action with 240gr platinum tipped hollow points or 220gr ballistic tipped rounds for when I’m just out in the forest where we have bears and cougar and oddly we have quite a few badgers that get aggressive at times. We also have a rather large number of coyotes that are abnormally large which are considered varmints here. I do have other guns but those are my go to weapons of choice. Cheers
200 yards I still love my 300 savage .shoulder friendly accurate and consistently deadly.
European here. The 7x64 is the cartridge I took my first shots with. Still use it to this day. Great round! Puts down everything you want to put down in Europe and arguably also in the States. My favourite is the 8x57IS but the 7x64 is up there!
Americans ignored the 7mm cartridges until the 7mm Remington Magnum. Which emulated the already thirty years old 7mm Weatherby Magnum. But yes, the 7mm’s were invented in Europe
@@Idahoguy10157 It is a great caliber and the 7x64 is a great round, allthough it does kick worse than a .30-06
@@8asw8 … not likely to ever see it in North America. The 7mm RM rules here
@@Idahoguy10157 No doubt. Just once I prefer Europe over the US when it comes to guns, then ;) . Let me have that one gun related victory, it has been rough these last years, believe me.
@@8asw8 … I own a CZ550 in 9.3x62.
Love my Spanish mauser built in 1900 still giving her hell in the woods
7x65R and 7x64 brenneke
Exactly, and I have a Tikka T3X Lite in 7x64mm Brenneke, customized to look like the Tikka T3 Tactical of the French GIGN, but theirs is chambered in .308 Winchester instead.
@@Winkler_B_Rudolf_1911 I have Shull over under breake action 7x65 r an 16/70 combo. Great gun
@@Winkler_B_Rudolf_1911 Blaser LRS 2 and Tactical 2Ross rifleSIG-Sauer SSG 3000 7.63 Mini-Whisper,510 WhisperSTR 200 MATCH
Thanks for talking about the 280 Rem. My first deer rifle and I love it
I really enjoy Your Cartridge discussions and how they have and still are evolving . Thanks Ron , Shoot Straight Stay Safe & Stay Well .
Hornady just released a 7mm prc. That will be interesting
.28 Nosler. This stuff is getting redundant.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 Not even 28 Nosler. Its basically a max book load for a 7 mag. If you can handload the 7 PRC and gain a little fps then it will basically be a twin for the 7 wby which has been around for a long time.
7mm PRC is optimized in body and neck length to use very heavy high BC bullets, and chambered in faster twist barrels to stabilize the long bullets. A dozen existing cartridges will do very nearly the same thing with a faster twist barrel.
A few inches less drop at 1000 yds means nothing to me. I hunt, ethically. Target games involving animals is a no-go in my book. For paper, I use smaller calibers that are more fun to shoot.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 28 nosler maybe if you want to shoot 1000 yards, pretty overpowered for stalking and mid range
John Smith: 28 Nosler owner here. The darn thing is no fun to shoot, entirely too expensive to shoot( if you can find ammo) and honestly is just too much gun for shooting pretty much anything. It meets the accuracy expectations (Christensen Ridgeline ), but you have to shoot game in the head to have usable table-fare. Shooting game at 1000 yards, if most people are capable, is not really hunting. A lot can happen in a half mile shot. Just not ethical imho.
Wow! I didn’t know all of that about the 7! I always learn so much from your videos. Thank you for taking the time to share with all of us these important and interesting facts. You do a great job at explaining things in a way we can understand. Cheers
Thanks Prepperjon.
I read the article from Schulte recently. Thanks for bringing the topic up. The 7x64 is a wonderful cartridge. And regarding the upcoming lead ban it gets more attention again. It is perfect for using lead free copper bullets!
According to Randy Selby, the 7mm Remington mag was the brainchild of their group of innovators. They eventually convinced Remington to make it, but they had a lot of difficulty convincing them because Remington was concerned that the cartridge would overshadow their 280 (which was fairly new, still), and would only provide a relatively small increase in performance by comparison. Remington eventually agreed, and the result was the 7mm Mag taking off like a rocket, and the 280 floating into the backwater eddies (just like Remington feared would happen).
The 280 is a good round. Who needs that 7RM belt
Not a big fan of Randy Selby. He has been caught lying a few times, and I've heard his stories about the 7RM and I'm not convinced it's entirely true...
Concerning the 280, the real reason it fell behind has less to do with the 7RM and more to do with the pressures it was speced for at the time. They wanted to use it in a semi gun and drastically limited it's performance because of the weaker action they wanted to run it in. Once they rebranded it as the 7 rem Express they changed the pressures to what it should be, but everyone was very confused so they eventually returned to the name 280 Remington.
Thumbs up Ron!
7x64 is like the magnum of 7x57, the german army did not adopt it in place of the old military Mauser caliber and it got a huge sucess amongst hunters because it was much more powerfull.
They did not adopt the 8×64S Brenneke. After that, Wilhelm Brenneke necked it down to 7mm and a new hunting cartridge was born
regards from germany :)
Didn't get into the 7mm's until recently because I already had rifles in 6.5x55 SE and Krag, also have some in .30-06 SPR. Still don't really "need" a 7mm, but............... picked up a Legendary Arms Works Professional II Capra in 280AI that is just awesome. Good luck and stay safe!!! 😉😉😉
Mr. Spomer One of the best channel on UA-cam!
I do own Brno combo 502.2 in 7x57R 12/70 and Angelo Zoli in 5,6x52R 12/70 . I had found that the combination guns works best for me for coyote hunting. I do live in Canada Ontario and I do hunt mostly in County Forests so I do shoot under 100 yards... average 60-50 yards if it closer and running shotgun barrel if coyote is standing rifle barrel. I also do use 7x 57R for deer and my nephew shot black bear this year with 7x57R RWS H-mantle bullet excellent preference . Greetings
280 rem and 280 ackley are my favorites of all my whitetail rifles !!
My understanding is that Mauser threatened to sue the US over the 1903 Springfield rifle, not the .30-06 cartridge. The '03's action is essentially a Mauser 1893 action, copied from the Mauser 1893 actions of the rifles the US captured during the Spanish-American War. (This action was further improved finally becoming the famous M98 action.) No lawsuit actually occurred as the US agreed to pay royalties to Mauser, recognizing that in the event of a lawsuit, Mauser would win.
I also remember that Springfield paid Mauser royalties for the spitzer bullet design used in the .30-06 cartridge. I don't know of any royalties over the actual .30-06 brass case design.
Finally, as a Canuck, remember the .280 Ross!
The 7mm's are great ! Absolutely love my 280 Ackley improved.
Great Show
Thanks again Ron for another great video and thanks for talking about the 280 Rem my favorite 06 based standard cartridge. Sure makes a fellow wonder where we would be at if Paul Mauser or Holland and Holland never existed and their creativity or ingenuity was never realized.
The 280 AI aka 280 Ackley Improved is not over bore and my choice while using a muzzle brake.
Pure gold!
There is a big difference between the 7x64 and the 270 Winchester, 280 Remington and 280 AI, the twist rate. The 7x64 has a twist rate of 220mm or 1 in 8.7 inch against 1 in 10. Rather modern in 1917. For long heavy bullets the 7x64 should have an advantage, especially for the hand loader that it shares with the 7x57.
Regarding pressure, SAAMI has the 7x64 at a lower pressure than the 280, but CIP has the 7x64 at a higher pressure. The reason seems to be the semiauto rifles on offer with the 280. In this case with the 7x64 being a European caliber, I would rather look to CIP.
The case capacity is 69.1 gr H2O for the 7x64 and 67.9 gr H2O for the 280. the 280 AI has 70.2 gr H2O.
Who would choose less than 8:1 twist for a 280AI?
I didn't have much of a choice in barrel twist for my 280AI because the manufacturer only offered it in a 1:9. I would've rather had a a 1:8 or 1:7.5, but am still happy with the accuracy out to my hunting distances with the 1:9 twist and a 143 gr Hammer Hunter bullet. 😉
@@johanlindh737 - SAAMI spec is 1:9”. Unless you get a custom barrel, that’s the standard twist rate.
@@nicholasbarcomb2324 Well, there isn't much difference between 1:9 and 1:8.7 so all but the heaviest bullets will work well. 😁👍
@@falba1492 Of course I'd get a custom barrell... 😁
The majority of 7x65R cartridges I’ve seen on driven shoots here in Europe are in double rifles, predominantly O/U. I know single shot rifles are made in this caliber, as you state. Great video. The 7x64 is still popular in mainland Europe, not so much here in Ireland and our near neighbour, the UK. I have a sneaking suspicion, this might be because of cartridge cost. RWS ( great cartridges ) prices are stratospheric. For example: ( yeh, I know it’s an oddball), box of 20, 5.6x57RWS caliber cartridges- €92, ( about $100). That’s a lot for a big 22! I have a beautiful full stock Steyr b/a rifle in this caliber, which I shoot, “ now and again”😉
Began with a 308, evolved to a 7 Wby, 7-08, hunted 20 years with a 280 Rem & have now settled on the 7 RSAUM. Love it, love it, love it!!
The MAP for the 7X64 is 50,500 CUP. The MAP for the 280 Rem is 50,000 CUP. Two peas in a pod in reality. The 280 has slightly less body taper then the 7X64. The Brenneke round's shoulder is ever so slightly farther forward than that on the 280, but the 280 has a longer tapered shoulder and a diameter of.4412" at the shoulder/body juncture. The Brenneke round is .4252" at the shoulder/body juncture so the Remington round should match or ever so slightly exceed the Brenneke round in capacity.
True, but American load data for European cartrigdes is notoriously anemic compared to European load data. The "blue bible", the RWS Wiederladen manual, has both the 280 and 7x64 loaded to full potential and the 7x64 wins. If only slightly.
How about the 7x 61 Sharp and Hart or 7mm Mashburn Super magnum., which is an older version of the 7mm STW.
Nice video Ron. Greetings from Europe - Croatia.
Another interesting video, it's always interesting to learn something new. I became a fan of the 7mm caliber very eary in life. I took some teasing because the rest were and still are 30 cal. fans. I also own a 270 Win. and a 264 Win.mag. I knew the 7mm cartridges originated in Europe, but never looked into it that deeply. Thanks
Love the cartridge discussions. Agreed we are all working in the same direction on the same projects.
Ron, you should have included the 7x61 Sharp and Hart in this discussion.
Another awesome job, Ron. I love the magnums like the 357mag, 44mag, 300mag and especially the 7Mmag. Like you, I am a strong believer in the 270 as an all around cartridge with a lesser "shoulder bite" than the 30's cartridges and the magnum cartridges. The 280 and the 243 are also well rounded cartridge beauties with less "shoulder bite" than the 30's and the magnums. In reality, as a general gun enthusiast, I will happily shoot anything you can safely put a cartridge into for the range or the field. I would like to once again say how much I appreciate you individually and your constant good and interesting content and inviting presentation style. Your videos are quite well done and well received by me and assuredly so many others. I wish you all the best of success in all of your future life goals. Thanks again and keep the great content coming. Thomas
Thanks Thomas.
Excellent information. Great gentleman.
I feel a bit smarter after every one of your videos Ron. You’re a true teacher. Appreciate you.
GREAT video! For years, I longed for a nice 7x57 bolt action hunting rifle, preferably a custom sporterized military version. A few years ago I found one on Gunbroker, a beautiful Venezuelan Mauser set in a Fajen Mannlicher stock. It is wonderfully polished and blued. I put a Redfield scope on it and with my handloads (good luck finding 7x57 on the shelf most places) it prints a respectable 2 MOA. It's much to pretty to want to take out in the field, so I later found a nice Ruger M77 in 7x57. I put a smaller Redfield on it and it is just the ticket. Neither recoils that bad, much less than my .270. I also reload for 6.5x55 and 8x57. My only complaint, as an American about European calibers is their limited availability in my area, but if you handload, you can shoot nearly anything you want to.
I'm very fond of my Swedes, hell all of my mausers. .308, 8x57...
A man of my own heart. Very nice. A classic rifle deserves a classic round and every rifle aficionado knows the 7mm Mauser as the one. Gained a healthy reputation in the Boar Wars 100 plus years ago and still going strong. Still popular in the Scottish Highlands I believe. Cheers from Australia.
@@baobo67 the 7x57 and also the Rimmed Sister (7x57R is nowadays much more common in Germany than the normal 7mm Mauser) are well Balanced Hunting Rounds from Roe Deer to Big Red Stags it do the Job. I have a 7x57R in an old Suhler Drilling from my Grandpa loaded with 140gn Nosler Partition it just Works on every Game in Germany without being to much for our little Roe Deers (the bigger Roe Bucks weigh around 25kg Max.). There is nearly Zero Damage to the Meat on Roe and they are 95% dead within 10 Meters, the longest search was 100 Meters but it was my Fault. On Wildboar and Redstag the same within 20 Meters.
My Dad one Day said to me it shouldnt be legal to shoot Roe with another Caliber than 7x57R cause the Zero loss of Meat and how good it Work every Time since now i have shot nearly 200 Roe with this old Rifle altough i have way newer and modern Rifles (Steel Action HS Straightpull and so on) with Silencers the Drilling with the 7x57R is still my Favorit.
Good comment
6.5x55 or 7x57 for mostly deer (roe and fallow)
@@RichardEnglander those are 2 of my favorites for whitetail along with a 257 Roberts.
Love your info sir! Keep it up please!
I love my 280 Rem 👍🏻
Bell earned his nickname by trekking through remote wilderness in Northeastern Uganda. By studying elephant skulls, he perfected the brain shot on elephants and was an advocate of shot placement over big-bore rifles. He pioneered the feat of shooting elephants while standing diagonally behind them (rather deceitfully, I might add), which is now called the Bell Shot. Bell reportedly took more than 1,000 elephants during his time in Africa with a .275 Rigby. (?) Another famous hunter did something similar with a 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser, but I can’t find a reference. My memory from 65 years ago says his name was Dalrymple. The natives in Uganda preferred the M1 Garand and counted success if they could down a tusker within eight shots.
I love my 280
The 7mm PRC has just been approved and released. It's throwing out a 180 gr at 2950. Looks to be a really good round.
Another very informative video Ron. Just from the title line I thought 7/30 Waters would be one of the cartridges brought up. I’ve never owned a gun chambered for that, but it was another of the “neck down” type concepts. Of course just necking a .30/30 case down to hold a 7mm bullet, as I’m sure you know.
I fell in love with the .280 Remington cartridge back in 1972 when it was known as the 7mm Remington Express.
Great discussion.Just one thing I noticed playing with 7mm x57; a lot of the euro barrels were.285 bore, whatever diff that makes. I built both a 7x57 AI and a 280. The AI a sporterized Chilean Mauser, the 280 is my main hunting firearm. Both are very accurate, dropped lots of deer with both.
I previously had an FN Mauser in 30-06 caliber converted to 9.2x62 by a Nuremberg gunsmith. A picture of a hunting rifle from after 1900 was used as a model. It was a very precise weapon. Good for Africa and the north for moose hunting
There is also a rimmed version of the 7x57.
Great article thank you.
I still shoot a 7×64 original Brenekke and it's a fantastic cal. for hunting in Namibia ( Africa ) and my trustee .308Win....my Brenneke has a 27" barrel. I love your video's always something to learn from. Greetings from Namibia.
Ron, would you please do a video on any down sides to fast twist rate? Nothing in life is free, and if a fast twist rate is always better, we wouldnt have slow twist rates on anything. I know a very fast twist can explode very light(or atleast thats what people say), fast bullets, but other then that extreme, does a fast twist affect pressure, or barrel life? Thanks for all your work.
All of the above, it increases pressure which can damage bullets and decrease barrel life and is also far more difficult to make with older barrel production technologies. However with modern bullet technology and barrel materials and production methods it’s no longer an issue. Of course anything can still be pushed to far, but with modern copper bullet technology “to far” is much farther then could have ever been done with old lead core bullets.
The downside is that shorter/lighter bullets become less effective. The reason major manufacturers don't all transition over to optimal twist for high-end bullets is partly due to logistics and partly due to the misconception of twist rates.
Twist rates are not just bullet weight:caliber. It's bearing surface:weight:caliber. Berger 30cal 230gr OTM's can happily be fired in 1:10 twist. Hornady 30cal 230gr A-Tips cannot. Same weight, different bearing surface. I prefer Berger, my shooting buddy at the range prefers Hornady. Who's the manufacturer going to cater to? Moreover, the super hardcore guys who like to shoot into and passed the transonic barrier, it becomes less science and more mysticism. Bryan Litz did some great studies into yaw and pitch at decelerating speeds and what that implies for necessary twist rates, but not everyone is going to treat his word as gospel, or bother to read the studies themselves, or care what he has to say despite his qualifications.
Some people if they know are shooting that far, want a slower twist rate, intentionally, so the bullet doesn't keyhole at 1100fps (in theory).
Following up that point is logistics.
Not everyone competes in the same sport, with the same set up, at the same altitude. It might be an availability problem, or a shipping and regulation problem. Modern, high B.C, high quality bullets just aren't available in many parts of the world.
Hell, for my hunting rifle I intentionally use out-dated bullets, because I shoot an out-dated caliber, and I'm not trying to snipe goats or deer.
A super fast twist rate is not going to stabilise those bullets very well. My FIL is a farmer who wants a slower twist in his .222rem because he doesn't want to add limitations on what cheap/light-for-caliber ammunition. The opposite of the benchrest shooter.
Manufacturers try to cotton on to which demographic they expect to purchase their rifles, and the shooting companies doesn't seem to realise that the makers don't care about them as an individual, they care about the community as a quarterly figure and that affects the products they release. There is not enough PRS/ULR/Benchrest shooters to sway the entry-medium level guns because the sport is so cost prohibitive.
When a new savage/ruger/tikka/whatever is released, and it STILL has a 1:12 twist for a .308, or a 1:14 for a .223, it's because they're selling guns to people who don't know what bearing surface is, and they know these purchasers will be using the cheapest ammo they can get. Or super light for caliber for the added velocity at shorter ranges.
world war(s) (lost by Germany) made German ammo scarce in South Africa, but the 7x64 Brenneke was still reckoned as a very versatile caliber in Africa (both as a plains and a bushveld caliber). Hunters and writers dr Felix Lategan and dr Lucas Potgieter , particularly wrote about the caliber as a favourite.
As always great content Ron! I really like 7mm’s particularly the 280AI but now you got me looking at the 7mm SAUM. You’re a bad influence! Lol. 👍
Great video as usual Ron, thank's for it. Correct, in Europe special in Germany they using on bolt action rifle 7x64 cartrige. the sister is 7x65R is used with combination guns (rifle / shotgun combination, which are very popular in the German speaking areas in Europe). Special in France was not allowed after II WW to use for hunting military caliber like .30-06, .308, 8x57 Mauser or the Swiss 7.5x55 etc.
regards from Switzerland
I have a Remington 7600 in 7mm 08 and man is great deer cartridge for PA deer hunting and out of even better rifle
Thanks for the great information on all these great 7 cartridges, me personally I’ll take my Savage 110 chambered in 7mm Remington Mag for anything here on the North American continent and it’s one round and done if I do my job as a hunter.
I've just bought a CZ 557 Lux in 7X64 here in South Africa. Looking forward to it.
Drat! You beat me to it!
I’d grab a 7x64 in a heartbeat if I could assure myself of finding brass and loaded ammo for it. I have a pair of 280 Rems and a 280AI and love that power level.
280AI is hard to ignore.
G'day from Aus, no better reference than Cartridges of the World, It is said there is nothing new under the sun, the cycles, the rebranding, laws, advertising, all for commercial gain, yet we can trace them back to their origins, new technology in powders, projectiles, rifling, etc., you know to mass produce something takes technology & 120+ yr old rifles can still be used today, either we have lost something or our historians aren't telling the truth, always a pleasure to listen to,
Ret Vet 🍻😊
I've used the 7x64 in an old Mauser Model 66, it's a great round for deer and wild pigs.
Nice information
The chain store that I work at based out of Utah has a dozen boxes of 7x64 from Remington sitting on the shelf for a couple years now. In some of the older spear reloading manuals it was mentioned that 7x64 and 280 Remington could be interchangeable if the chamber dimensions were not too tight.
The 7x64 are created from 8x65 .
The 8x65 were created by Breneke 1912 for the German army as a replacement for 8x57IS but it was never adopted.
But became popular necked down to 7mm.
If you look and compare European loads for 7x64 and 280 Remington, 7x64 are loaded to higher pressure and with heavy bullets.
Looking at Norma loads they are slightly heavier for 7x64 .
X64 , x65 is the Rimmed version
Czechs suggested post war the Zg47 action in 8x64S as new Sniper's rifle . But Mosin won out
Dang, I was hoping for a mention of the 7x61 S@H (personal favorite of mine).
Hey Ron let me know what you think of the 7mm PRC.
Good information
I don't even care about content Ron. I just watch because your vlogs are so laid back and entertaining. Thanks for your awesome work. God bless. ps, I always try to shoot straight, but my bullets always curve down. 😆
Darned gravity!
Ron thanks again for a very insightful and informative episode ! Would request you to do a short review on the 6x45 ( 6mm 223 ) maybe you could incorporate it into a future video about another subject ? This is a very useful but neglected cartridge . It is a wonderful predator cartridge and works very well in an AR platform or bolt action and is very efficient and economical to load ! Please consider this. Thanks as always !…..
I like your shows very informative. I went with 280 A.I.
My first hunting rifle in South Africa was a 21.5 inch barreled 7x64. Used it for bushveld hunting with 170gr bullets at 2620 fps. I killed from Impala and Warthog to Wildebees and Sable. 150gr gamekings at 2800 was great for Springbuck, Reedbuck and Blesbuck. My hunting buddy had access to a wide variety of calibers as his father owned the land we hunted yet he used a 22 inch mod 70 in 30-06. We were always comparing results and were dedicated bullet retrievers and I have to say, the 7x64 with a heavy bullet is a hammer. It was rare to shoot over a 100m, animals seldomly moved from where they were shot and very few bullets recovered. However the occasional longer shots never posed any problems.
Ron back in 1991-92 Remington came out with a limited production run of 7x64 Breneke and it had a pencil thin barrel wood stock which looked like it came out of their custom shop. I sold as many as I could get back then when I had my firearm business. I was a .280 fan and still am shooting both the standard and AI version. Sadly I was young and didn’t think about keeping one in the box unfired. I also believe that Bill Ruger chambered both the Number 1 single shot and the M77 in the 7x64 as well?
*Yes Ron, W.D.M. 'Karamojo' Bell did use 7x57 a.k.a. 275 Rigby to take some elephants with carefully placed brain shots. His bullets were 173 or 175 grain round nose full metal jacket with the thicker jackets....possibly designed to not come apart or may have been true solids. He called them round nose solids. Very few bullets in that caliber and cartridge were actually solid. His bullet might have been actual solids or maybe they were just thick jacket fmj. Thick jackets at moderate velocity can actually behave very much like a solid might. Solid or thick jacket fmj or maybe some of both ? Either way... it worked, for him.*
7mm X 61 sharp and hart on par with 7mm rem mag but you don’t hear about it much
7-08 takes the cake here ;) partnered with Kimber montana. most epic.
Look out for the one to replace 7mm SAUM. 7mm PRC!!!
Hornady has a way of doing that - their marketing team has great advertisements. Despite the stupid name, the serious competition shooters, are keeping SAUM alive. For now anyway.
28 Nosler is also Almost 70 Years old 😀 7x66 vom Hofe Superexpress Lukas is funny to post all this Things on your Website Ron
Now pls make a Video about the German Sisters 😜
Reminds me of a song I heard once “we don’t like any thing original unless it’s been done before”.
I made a huge mistake not picking up 2 Mauser 7mm about 10yrs back. Local shop had oddball rifles for a moving sale, selling everything. I could have got both for $150 each. I blew it. I didn't know until doing research how nice the 7mm was, ahead of its time.
I wish 7mm mauser would make a comeback, it's a great cartridge
Key development for the 7mm RM: Browning X-Bolt Max Long Range with an 8 twist. Enables the Hornady A-Tip 190 grain type bullet :] = a great rejuvenation of this round! Copper Creek load… 2800fps; BCs G1 .838 ! G7.422; w 26” barrel. Barrel throat life is moderate, yet enable great/extreme routine performance. If you get more powder yet 🔥, you accelerate deterioration.
There's also the 7x61 Sharpe and Hart.
7x61 sharp&heart ..
No mention of that one.
When I first got into Mausers I accidentally bought a box of 7x57 Rimmed ammo. I didn't pay attention to the box because I didn't even know that a rimmed version of the 7x57 existed. Luckily I was able to get rid of it and get some money back.
I really like the idea of the 7 SAUM. I think I'm going to build a long range hunting/ELR type rifle in 7 saum or 7 prc. 2900-3000 FPS with 180 grain bullets sounds quite effective
I waited until I had brass before I moved too far forward. I love the idea of the SAUM for a long time, though the .284 Shehane also has my attention. Brass from Lapua for the .284 Win is always available and in stock - just fire form it and you get 3 grains extra capacity. The Shehane, from what I can find uses about 59 grains of powder and the SAUM uses about 63. But, velocities are both in the upper 2900's, a little more for the Shehane. Both are very interesting cartridges. Good luck.
When I was a teenager I inherited my grandfathers 8mm mauser. It weighed a ton and kicked like a mule but I loved it.
Nosler Manual #4, 160g partition with IMR 7828, Fed 210, 2930 fps, real world in my Remingtons with 24" barrel. Basically, the loading manuals have to take into account that there are pumps and semi autos. Loads for a bolt gun can be loaded much hotter than PUMP and Semi auto rifles. The 280 Rem is a very, very efficient cartridge.
Bo Clerke had a trick Reamer called a 7 mm/ 30/40 Craig AI that worked very well in his EXTENDER line and Ruger number 1 rifles.. velocity was close to . .280 rem.
7mm Blaser is another one. Just under 82.5 grains capacity. Just slower than a 28 Nosler by a 100 fps. Same length as a 7mm Rem mag.
Twistrate 7mm blaser??
the schulte's here in cental texas pronounce it shul-tee. quite a few of them lived in navasota, one ran a budget mobile home factory, another did residential roofing.
Great video Ron! Can it be true that, "There is nothing new under the sun."?
Truth be known I love the 280 Remington and because of availability I forgo it for 7mm Rem Mag. The world standards in pistols is the 9mm Luger.
2 thumbs up Ron. Informative and humorous video. Europe and England are generally behind the times in the last 100 years in cartridge development. Not a knock on them, just that with their smaller shooter/hunter population and firearm restrictions, they don't have the market or the wildcatters. I kind of like the European bullet diameter X case length designation. But the Brits get confusing with theirs. They seem to have little standardization. Bullet diameter, lands diameter, neither, case length in inches and fractions, just all over the board. Yeah, we do that a bit, ie; 300, 30, 307, 308 are all 308 diameter and 338 and 340 are 338. We do it more for marketing, they might just have gotten curdled milk in their tea that day. 😁
I will say I used to want a 7x57. More for the lore and romance of the fine old cartridge. Nearly got my mother one because Eleanor O'Connor that so highly of her's. Naturally Bell used his 275/7x57 to the extreme. Mom did the same with her 30-06.
Keep well, Ron
Cheers, Jeff
The 280 Remington can be loaded hotter than what SAMMI says. I have hunted almost exclusively with one since 1995. I have bought many "bolt action only" boxes of factory ammo over the years. 3100 FPS with 140 grain bullets is safely attainable. I read an article years ago that claimed the 280 AI is simply a 280 Remington loaded to it's full potential. The article also mentioned the unjust low SAMMI pressure was the only reason Ackley wildcatted it.
Everything can be loaded hotter than what somebody says. Its not a question of whether you can or not.
In the case of the european cartridges. SAAMI seems to neuter a lot of them.
5000psi lower max pressure as compared to CIP is not rare - though I don't know if the readings or ways of measuring allow for direct comparison.
Certainly no issues driving the 7x64 to above 3000ftlbs safely within its CIP rating especially with heavy bullets. Tho ofc you need to watch your twist rate with some of them super duper long ones
I have a 6mm Remington necked 7x57 , the thing that I like about the 7x57 case is in a 98 Mauser action it will feed empty cases from the magazine,
the longer 06 cases is nearly as good, My one 7mm rifle is a Sako 75 in 7mm08 that feeds beautifly but not with empty cases, The Germans also make a 7x57R
as well as the 7x65R and have some very good 7mm Magnums, A comparison between the 7mm Magnums would be very interesting .
7mmSAUM, 7RUM, and the 28 nosler are all good high velocity choices in the 7mm bore.