Hornady made the ammo , hornady made the box. They can change the powder ,they can change the box. They didn’t . They knew of an issue and didn’t inform consumers until they were caught .
This is my thoughts exactly, They could have included an insert paper in the box explaining or a sticker on the outside, not hard or very expensive... shame on Hornady.
Hornady designed the cartilage, theirs zero excuse for them not to deliver what they sold. Their magic barrel still shoots similar velocity but your rifle may be 150fps under
My issue with Hornady is that they should have retested their new loads when they knew they changed the powder and then updating their packaging accordingly. To not do so was fraudulent and really lowers my opinion of their company. Market issues is one thing, not being straight with your customers is another. The 7MM PRC is Hornady's baby (given that they developed it) and it was just getting to market when their powder supply issue hit. I believe that they knew they had a short window to get the public on board with the cartridge. They also knew that velocities are a key factor in what chambering customers select when purchasing a new rifle. After seeing the very comparable 6.8 Western fizzle (along with a stalled rollout for the 277 FURY), Hornady likely feared what would happen to their "wonder cartridge" if they had been upfront with customers.
I was born and grew up in India a long time ago. My daughter (who was born in the US) used to say when she was little that I was so old that I played baseball with Moses. In the old days, you had some peculiar chambering offerings by the Brits back when India still allowed hunting. You can find old Westley Richards catalogs which show 250-3000 double rifles which were advertised as great for hunting tigers. At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits sold a lot of big bore double rifles, most of which eventually ended up in the US after hunting was banned in the 1970s. I consider myself blessed to be in the United States and to be able to enjoy the freedoms here, to be able to hunt and to shoot.
I am live in southeast Alaska born and raised and am building a 7 PRC for deer and the occasional elk and moose hunt. I reload and am not worried about the Hornady drama. Its a very capable round and am excited to play with something new
I just bought a 7 PRC for Whitetail, but don’t hand load. I’m not worried about though, since most of my shots are within a 100 yards. I know it’s meant for long range, but I just couldn’t help myself 😂
These manufacturers make all these new calibers for marketing it’s all about the MONEY that’s it plan and simple. When it comes to the 7mm’s. If u can’t get in done with a 280-AI u aren’t going to get it done with any 7mm round. Also any shot pass 500 yards on an animal is just unethical hunting in my opinion. What happened to ethics and woodsman ship and respect for the animals we hunt. Just my opinion
7PRC 175 ELDx Peterson Brass CCI MLR primers 68.5 gr H1000 3.26 COAL (Guide reccomendation) 24" barrel Velocities measured on a Garmin Xero 5 - 20 round groups 3000 fps 8.5 SD 16 ES .75 MOA off bench 1 MOA when I was shooting Hell of a cartridge as far as I'm concerned. Also hearing that Federal is getting advertised speeds. Working up a 195 berger load next.
“We reduced the velocity because we didn’t want to loose accuracy.” But they didn’t change what they printed on the box, even though they knew those stated velocities weren’t true anymore.
Hello Ron, my name is Todd, and I have been watching your channel for a while now and have been reading your articles in magazines my whole life. I really enjoy both. You always give a lot of good information I for one, don't expect you to get all the information exactly correct. I have noticed a few mistakes or miss speaking, but it's not a big deal. I have to say that some of the people who are sending in corrections are very rude to you in the way they do it. If all these people expect you or anyone else to be perfect all the time, maybe they should start doing a podcast and see how much they know and or get correct. Please keep doing what you do because all of non-perfect people really enjoy what you are doing.
Im switching from Hornady to Federal ammo this summer, thinking ill try the Terminal Ascent and see if my rifle shoots it well. Not into sticking with a brand that will intentionally slow down ammo and keep posting false data on the box. Thank Ron, I have learned so much from you over the years.
@@drakeslocum2564 Yes i have been researching them a fair amaount. I have a couple boxes of superformance GMX but they didnt group well out of my rifle. However I learned from Ron, I may need to prep my rifle a bit before shooting them. I will try them again. I am definitely intrigued by the coppers
Nosler and Federal premium ! Trust me ! Every other brand has failed me at some point In time ! Under loaded win supreme! Under loaded Remington! Had failure to fire in 30-06 Remington ammo and win supreme 270 ammo once before !
My brother in law was a guide in Alaska, he was a fan of the 308 Norma but after getting into river kayaking he moved to a 18" 375 H&H Mag and a low power scope, it was in stainless steel since its life was doomed to be lived in the bottom of a kayak or a canoe.
For the lefty wanting a 35 Whelen, I went for a Tradition Outfitters single shot rifle in 35 Whelen because I am also a lefty. It was about $360. The CVA Scout is also a good single shot rifle made in 35 Whelen. Single shots are easy to use as a lefty, relatively light weight, and cheap. Most of the time one shot is all that is needed anyway
I forgot about the Tradition brand . The CVA Scout Rifle in 35 Whelen is heavy to some but not to others you will appreciate the added weight it helps reduce some of the recoil.
@@clintonlayne9253 I went in a shop one day looking for a CVA in 35 Whelen, they only had the Traditions brand (which I bought). Before that I had never even heard of them. It’s a great gun though.
My official position on the 7 PRC , a good cartridge that’s not needed ! Lots of people will buy anything that’s ( HYPED ) !….. Thanks Ron for all your hard work for us !…….
You can play this game with nearly every cartridge 🙄. The 7 PRC is a modernized 7 REM mag. It wouldn't make sense for anyone to dump their old 7RM for a new PRC, but if you're in the market for a new rifle, the 7 PRC is just a better design. We just need more ammunition manufacturers to jump on it- and many have. If we're going by the "it's not needed" logic, we would have stopped cartridge design in the 1930's. Before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not a Hornady "fan boy", I don't own a 7 PRC, and likely never will since I'm perfectly happy with my 7 REM Mag.
@@nuckyduk15 It’s not needed ( except maybe for target use ) because there are superior and inferior 7 mm cartridges , why do we need to squeeze another 7mm cartridge somewhere in the middle ?….. It’s all about selling new rifles !…….
@@thomasdaum1927 if that is your stance, then no new cartridge after 1906 is "needed". 30-06 is more than sufficient to do anything INCLUDING target use. The issue is that there are cartridges that do things better. Being able to purchase a 28 cal rifle that comes with a 1:8 twist from the FACTORY, with magazines /magazine wells suited to take big, long , heavy-for-caliber bullets is incredible. I know that 180 gr .284 cals are great for target shooting, but they also smack the dog snot out of deer and elk. I am 7mm fanboy, and the 7 PRC definitely is needed and has a great place and defined purpose in the collection.
@@andrewbrewer9039 we already have the 7 Rem mag , 7 Dakota , 7 WBY , 7 STW , 7 Ultra , 7x64 and several 7 mm wild cats . So we ( NEED ) another 7mm cartridge ? The average hunter doesn’t need or want a heavy for caliber bullet as 90% of deer and elk are taken at 300 yards or less . At that range ( 300 yds or less ) a lighter bullet like a 160 gr would have a flatter trajectory than a 180 ! It’s just all about selling new rifles !…..
@@thomasdaum1927 yes, there are TONS of 7mm options. My point was, using your logic, every cartridge developed after 1906 falls into your category of "not needed". 30-06 does everything that any cartridge ever created after does. Flat (enough) to 300, heavy enough for large (north American) game, light enough for medium sized game, etc. Having options and niche applications for different rifle/ cartridge options is a good thing. OBVIOUSLY rifle companies are going to want to sell more rifles....thats literally the reason they exist. Also, 7PRC was developed by hornady and, last time i checked, they arent in the rifle making game. The benefits of heavy-for-caliber bullets isnt just trajectory my friend, they are easy (er) on rifle barrels, they ALWAYS have higher SD (which is muy importante for hunting, regardless of range), and they retain a lot more energy on target at all ranges. I really want to go into all of the cartridges you listed, and why they arent good examples for this discussion, but I honestly dont have the energy right now lol. Conclusion: 7mm PRC is a badass round, that deserves its spot on the shelf. It isnt "unneeded", nor is it necessary for every hunter.
Australia's minimum bullet for deer is a .243 and .270 for Sambar deer as they can get to 300kg. There are also rules for minimum energy requirements of something like 1,000ft/lb @100m however they might be state specific. There are also minimum recommendations for certain applications. Also i have just chrono'd Hornady 55gr Vmax and gotten 240fps under the box speed from my LA102 with a 22" barrel but then my 300prc is with in 20fps of the box speed using 212gr ELD-X.
the main problem with the hornady excuse is that they never said they had to slow down the load but even worse just kept putting that lie right back on all the boxes
GET A CLUE KID, 90% OF THE VELOCITY DATA ON EVERY BOX OF AMMO YOU HAVE EVER BOUGHT IS FALSE WHY HOLD HORNADY TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN ANYONE ELSE? OH, I KNOW WHY. YOU ARE JUST A CHILDISH LUTTLE HATER. 😂
They can't keep saying it's "better" than the 7mm remington magnum, if they put up their real numbers. I'm guessing it will be at least 2 years before anyone gets ahold of any RL26, so they should just advertise it with the correct velocities.
well wonder how many boxes they had made up all ready and anyone who goes by what the box says is wrong already for you can take three guns and they will have up to 150 to 200 fps the main trouble i see is people today have become whinny babys about everything
Any reloader would have said damn near the same thing hornady did. They couldn't get the exact powders they needed so rather than making sure velocity is met they make sure it shoots well. No one reloads for speed they reload for accuracy. Would you rather have a super fast 2 moa gun or a slightly slower .5moa gun? I'd much rather sacrifice velocity for accuracy.
Great show Ron💯 Great perspective on the history commentary 🤙 Comes with age and experience, dealing with many types of people 👍 More importantly; thank you for sharing the response from Hornady ‼️💯
I agree on the use of the "clock" for calling shots. During 30:06 week it was a bit frustrating with the young guy trying to tell you where you hit. 2 o'clock, 2, 1/4" ... simple to follow.
If I moved to Alaska I would ask the local gunshops near me loads of questions before I purchased a gun for hunting and build a relationship with the shop and local hunters not so much for game but safety. Alaska is a wild looking place 🇦🇺
35 whelen for me and I’d recommend the 7 mag as well for this youngster . Great tip about the double ear protection . I learned that on my own thankfully but it sure makes a difference . Awesome flinching tips,Ron . I’m going to try those out . I don’t flinch much ….or do I 🤔😂
.375 H&H bolt action is a grate choice. 300 gn. Nosler partition bullet. There's no substitute for horsepower. As for recoil; with modern-day recoil break systems will do just fine. Use a "Lead Sled" which will help tame recoil too. The only time recoil is a problem, is at the target range. When your in the field you will not notice it. Your concentration is on the animal and not the rifle.
the unexpected can happen in Alaska, if a hunting guide is holding your hand on a guided hunt, then any rifle is great, but if your packing in unguided hunts or camping in the bush, most people carry a 300 mag or even a 338 mag. with heavy bullets. I lived in Alaska, hunt, trapped and fished and had a few confrontation with grizzly bears. trust me you will never feel the recoil of a rifle when a big bear is in your face !
I'm a long time 7 Rem Mag fan. As a hand loader I've seen nothing so far that convinces me to switch to the 7 PRC. A recent Little Crow Gunworks series comparing the two cartridges proves that the 7 Rem Mag has more powder capacity (not less) than the 7 PRC. Notwithstanding, the 7 PRC is outstanding...but not magic.
At least you get it. Hornady didn't design the PRC for people like us who already have a 7 Rem mag..... They designed it for people who don't yet have a Magnum 7. I swear the FUDDS on this channel are worse than the Creedmore fanboys.
@@nuckyduk15 I'm assuming that by "FUDDS" you are referring to us long time hunters that have more experience than you. Folks that laid the groundwork for what you enjoy today. As a fanboy you should realize that Hornady misrepresented their 7 PRC with every printed label on every box of their ammo. That should tell you something.
Your advice on recoil is great, I learned to shoot on a 22, then a 30-30 and then an ‘06 and the first time I experienced recoil that bothered me was on a 338 lapua because the expectation just wasn’t there for anything else I’ve shot
Hello Dakota, you are doing now, (eg. what I wish I had done;) for the first 6 years, after I'd finished college. As for a rifle selection, I'd suggest you seriously consider the tikka Hamer in 280 A.I. Get one with a scope appropriate to the hunting style you intend to do. For example, a 1-8 for closer to mid range hunting ( or if you're going to be tracking) Otherwise, a 4-16 should suffice. Please Note : If you're expecting to work as a guide for brown bear. Get a 375 ruger & an aftermarket takeoff barrel in 7prc. That way with the use of a muzzelbreak you'll have everything covered.
I'd rather recommend a suppressor to new shooters if they have acces to them, which he does. Many people are scared by the sound, more so than the recoil itself. I agree on 7 rem mag though, although .30-06 will be just as good for most hunters.
lol…. I grew up on a very large cattle and sheep ranch in the Sacramento and Guadalupe mountains of southern New Mexico. I had access to a Remington 700 BDL in .270. Remington Model 722 chambered in .222, a Winchester Army Model 30 Carbine 1895 chambered in 30-40 krag, a Remington model 41 single shot bolt .22 and a handful of other rifles. We had deer, mule, white tail… we had Antelope, pronghorns, bear and mountain lions. I know it’s hard to believe but I always had a .22 rifle in the pickup. I’ve shot a lot of cattle, sheep, deer and coyotes with the gun I had with me. Placement is important and lethal to most animals up to 100 yards. The gun I had on my scabbard was the Remington .222. I never lost a deer or coyote with the .222. One time, I had come home from college with a girlfriend during hunting season. Our ranch was private land and we restricted hunters to those who were friends or family. So over the generations deer had learned to flee to our ranch and stick to the mountains and more heavily wooded area. Anyway we were walking with our rifles when I saw a deer about 500 yards away. My Dad who was carrying a .270 said… that’s too far for your .222. I said give me a chance and if not, you take a shot immediately after I shoot. With my girlfriend watching on I sat down and braced the rifle on my knees, aimed… pulled the trigger and the buck jumped ran about 25’ and died. I’d hit him right in the heart. The point is, the .222 is more than sufficient to kill Deer or even Black Bear…. but placement is key.
I had my 270 rebarreled to an 18” 30/06 #5 contour with a 1/8 twist and load 208 grain bullets. I have also used a lot of off the shelf 150/180s. I love that rifle, only shoot suppressed, recoil isn’t an issue. I was an early .260 Remington fan, but now a 6.5 creedmoor is my go to. But my only bears are black bear and most of my shots are under 250 yards, I wouldn’t consider it a big bear cartridge.
If trying to go go from 30.06 to 35 whelen don't rule out a rebore. Very affordable. I have 2 done by JES bore service. One is an 1895 bored from 30-40 to 405 winchester. The other is a 94 winchester bored from 30-30 to 38-55. Great work, great accuracy
Oregon down on the Left Coast of United States has a lot of liberals moving into it thank God they haven't screwed with calibers and straight wall cartridges yet. 22 caliber or bigger for dear, 24 caliber or bigger for elk....
I just got my cva cascade in 30-06 out and compared to the 308 I already had, the increased recoil very minimal. I did have a bit of flinch but if I keep on the rifle I can easily get over that flinch. I love that cascade. I'm not a great shot yet but I'll tell ya, an inch at 100 is super good for me!
What might be a lot easier than doing a suppressor comparison would be to check out different hearing protection. One example is walker. I use the earmuffs and not only do the cut down the sound they enhance sound around you at the same time. There are a bunch of these styles out there nowadays and even some earbub style. I don't have anything against silencers but that would be a much cheaper route and you don't have to worry about a tax stamp.
it’s really just a slightly better designed 7mag . if I was to buy a new 7mm I’d probably go the prc but if I had a 7 mag already I wouldn’t replace it with a 7 prc. it just doesn’t do enough better to justify it .
I love your shows. I know you might have covered it before, but could you talk about shooting discipline and the problem with buck fever and using a large capacity, semi-auto for hunting deer and other medium to large, and fast game. Everyone is different. During a sudden and unexpected period of excitement, some people panic and lock up or overreact. Others, not always but sometimes because of training and experience, switch into an unemotional mood and react calmly and deliberately. I have an M1 Carbine. Years ago I took it hunting and one of my many brother-in-laws saw it and decided to get one. He was a very experienced hunter and had taken a lot of deer in the past. He took his M1 Carbine hunting in brush country and, when a buck suddenly broke cover near him, he dumped a fifteen-round magazine at the running deer. He and I decided right then that he needed to return to his lever action Marlin 336 to hunt deer. I have no problem with people using large-capacity semi-auto rifles for pest control of smaller or shorter animals such as hogs. They are short animals and any misses go into the ground near the animal. But a miss on a large and fast-moving game animal like a deer could result in a tragedy as the rounds that miss the target could travel a long distance.
Shaw sells complete rifles available in left-hand, 35 Whelen. I have a left-hand Shaw MK VII in 338 federal. Built on a savage action. Very nice rifle and no barrel swap needed.
30-06 all day long and twice on Sunday. Will do anything you need done in Alaska and with lighter bullets you could handily shoot small game. Biggest plus, no lousy belt on the case!
I shoot Hornady 338 Lapua 250 grain ELD-M for plinking at my local range. Using a Garmin Xero chronograph it averages 2928 and the boxes is 2900. It’s a 27” Brux Barrel that has been hand lapped. So, I might be getting a few 2-4% fast speeds than an “Off the Shelf” rifle.
Seems to me that Hornady should've said something... But, I could care less about this under performing ammo since you still have the tighter tolerances that contribute to accuracy... I just don't think that the elk on the other end is going to complain much about being shot with that 200 fps slower bullet. Most of my handloads are slower anyway since I load for accuracy instead of just speed. Good job and yes do a suppressor episode!
Hey Ronnie I would just like you to know that I only suffered through one commercial in the whole hour UA-cam presentation. I watch from Canada so maybe that makes a difference but not enough commercial content to complain about here. Thanks again. Keep on keeping on.
22 centerfire cartridges are legal in Wyoming for deer, antelope, mountain lion, and wolves so long as the cartridge length is at least 2 inches and the bullet weighs at least 60 grains, FYI. That changed about 10 years ago. Other big game still requires 24 caliber.
A hard spot to be in as a business. As an analyst, the appropriate recommendation would be to update the ballistic data table on the box as it pertains to the lot of manufacture. However, this is an additional cost to reproduce the digital media on the box, so I am good with the official statement, but a bit too late and not well disseminated.
I'm using UA-cam Premium and it is commercial free, worth every penny IMHO. The biggest advantage to 7 PRC is seldom spoken about. The chamber tolerances to meet SAAMI specs is much tighter than the 7 Rem Mag, this helps with accuracy over a wide range of manufacturers. For handloaders this is a real boon to achieving the best results. For left handed shooters the new Beretta BRX1 straight pull looks like a winner. The end user can shift from right to left hand bolt and ejection with no tools other than a pointed bullet to ease the releases. Not sure about the calibers as you can change barrels at home once the kits become available.
The powder will come, I love my 7 mag but I bought the prc for the down range ballistics. I love their match ammo ,their 108s and EOls ..my desk is stocked full of them
Hey Ron I just finished up watching .30-06 week I've always been a .06 fan since I was a little boy but do you think the next time you do a caliber week we could get the 7mm-08
Dakota, try a 338-06, a little bit bigger bullet and the recoil is manageable, better yet, 338 Win Mag, train in to it, but man-up, a flinch is all mental, if recoil is that troublesome, you may want to reconsider an Alaska Life Changing Move. It is not a place to be undergunned.
regarding round nosed vs spitzer bullet: subsonics tend to have better accuracy with round nose while supersonic not as fussy but spitzer ever so slightly better.
My first gun was a Remington 700 7mm rem mag. Fantastic gun and caliber! Can't go wrong with that combo. That being said i love historical cool guns and fell in love with old winchesters and mausers so now i use my k98k 8x57is or 1886 45-90 for everything 😁
300 Win Mag with a suppressor is how I would go( and have taken to AK). Big enough for about anything up there, and with a can it'll soften the kick. My second choice would be the 7mm Rem Mag, which I also have.
For the guy trying to call shots. Put a blank target down on the table beside the shooter than get the shooter to hand you ghe spent cartrige. When he does just use the spent cartrige to put down on the target beside him/her to indicate where the last shot landed on the cartrige. In that way they only have to scan the table to see the called shot.
For the barrel the cheapest way to go is JES reboring you can send a 30/06 in and have him bore the barrel out to 35 whelen the gun is very accurate and he does a great job.
I would like to see you test silencers. We have some nice looking silencers for hunting from Norway, like the Freyr & Devik Featherweight 269 with titanium core.
Hi Ron, I love your content, you do a very good job reducing complex shooting issues to a common man’s understanding of ballistics. However I note a few aspects that lead me to believe you don’t fully understand some of the nuances that do not matter at traditional hunting ranges but matter a lot at longer ranges. I would be happy to help you fully understand some of the nuances. To be clear, I am biased, the chief engineer for Berger. I work hand and hand with Brian Litz. So, deep into the technical nuances. But if you would like to understand more I think I could help you.
Ron. I watch all of your podcasts often more than once. I glean tremendous knowledge and other insights on my own experience. It’s why I cherish being a patreon. Why is you do not do talks regarding those of us that shoot single shots exclusively. I own several ranging from .22LR to 458wm. I have several that I use more than others. ie) 30:06, 7mm, 358win and now a 35 whelen recently I watched you video with your knew 7mm single shot. You know the attributes of the single shot. Would you not agree they deserve a bit of recognition and love. Please keep up your magnificent videos You do not just entertain, you educate and that benefits all of us. Loyal patreon. Cailean Scotland.
Got the same faves rifles in your calipers as you except the 35 Whelen. I love them all..I usually carry a 7mm Mauser here in Kentucky for hunting medium game, especially deer size critters..it's a perfect round for that..Hello Scotland! 🏴....Salute!..🇺🇲
Thank you Micheal. Over the past months I have come to love and enjoy the 35 whelen I have completed a new Remington rolling block in 35 whelen. It was one of my 30-06 rem rollers. I’m now working on a 7x57 Mauser conversion/ rebuild of another Remington rolling block of the old 7 mm with the odd / old sized 7mm cartridge I also just obtained a ruger no 1 in 7x57. So I now have 3 fave calibre cartridges. 458 win mag , 35 whelen. And the 7x 57 Mauser.
On the history correction, that gentleman failed to mention what our military stated was the main reason for their advantage with the 7x57. It was their use of smokeless powder. All of our ammo was still black powder. Black powder gives your position away with every shot. We couldn't see their positions.
Ron, I actually thought about the younger generation being Digital minded .😊 After my comment on the clock principal. The Savage 110 Axis II with the accuracy trigger. Mauser 98 and 03A3 any 3006 /270 long action would work to convert to a 35 Whelen. There are many Sporterized Mil Surplus rifles that can be had for less dollars . Or buy a CVA Scout Rifle in 35 Whelen the barrel is threaded it's drilled and tapped and comes with a compensator for under 500.00 bucks for the stainless steel models and under 400 for the blued actions but may not be threaded.
The 35 Whelen is a standard length action. There are three action sizes, Short, Standard, and Magnum. I would be careful with Military surplus rifles for the conversion. With handloading, you can easily over pressure the old actions.
All ammo manufacturers have issue with velocity accuracy. If your at all serious about shooting youll chrono your ammo. But I only rounds thats I have handloaded myself. But in my world 0.001 of an inch counts. Thanks Ron
Hey Ron- I’ve watched this video a couple times over the last couple months. Im wondering how Hornady can print a velocity on the box that is based on powder that’s not actually in the cartridge customers are buying. That seems like cut and dry case of false advertising. They should mark the boxes accurately. When they finally start loading reloader26, or whatever they were using originally to reach 3000fps, there’s going to be a lot of people buying ammo for a hunt, only to have their dope and velocity change all of a sudden without any way to know beforehand. Crazy
Ron you hit another home run with this one. Maybe you should've been up at bat for those University of Kentucky Wildcats baseball team in the College World Series! Still, a first time in the series. Go Cat's!
I wonder if Daniel, claiming that the stripper clip for the Mauser is superior to the Krag Jorgensen reloading system has ever done a comparison between the two? I’d bet that a mad minute comparison would find little difference between the two systems. I, also, haven’t done the comparison, but I would love to do so when I find a Krag to test (my preference would be to find one in 6.5x55 as was intended). I’ve loaded rifles with stripper clips before and it’s rarely ever very fast. The Krag system has its advantages, particularly logistically, as you don’t need to manufacture the clips and supply ammo in clips to the forces. That would be a fun video to watch, anyway. As Ron pointed out, it may not really have even been a competition between the Krag and the Mauser as much as it was a competition between the trapdoor Springfield and the Mauser. Also, it’s worth noting that in the military(not just the military), any poor performance on the field, if it can’t be blamed on a particular officer, is usually blamed on ‘outdated’ equipment. It will never be blamed on the higher-ups, ever. Also, I’ve also seen people say that it was black powder vs smokeless powder, but the .30-40 Krag was the first smokeless powder cartridge in American use (the 8mm Lebel was the first smokeless powder cartridge) so that might be accurate only if you assume the comparison between the .45-70 and the 7x57, but not the .30-40 Krag.
To PHR.. Brother God Bless Ya..I dont all you have been or going on in life , but I can sure relate. Hopefully you can get this fall..I will be praying we both do n those with simliar things ..
I have not had a short action magnum, but I’ve heard they don’t feed well no matter which one you choose. I don’t own one nor have I known anyone that owns a 7 PRC, but many are not achieving the velocities that we should be getting not matter what powder. example if you’re looking in their Hodgins reload E manuel it shows different powders achieving over 3000 FPS with 175 grain bullet. … but yet a lot of people online are not able to achieve this without going over max pressure (5 to 6 grains over max just to achieve 175grn pill=3,00 fps… has been more like 2850 fps reality with 24 “ barrels. it so either manufactures or changing their powders or something else is gone goofy. you will not see much of a difference between the 7 PRC, the 7WSM, and the 7 Rem mag. What you are gaining is a better-designed factory chamber. The longer freebore will allow a reloader to make better use of modern bullets. The 7 PRC’s modern design will lead to a much better selection of factory ammunition
Would enjoy a deep dive on suppressors. A new rifle I just bought has a threaded barrel and have always wanted a reason to put on a suppressor! But just don’t know all there is to know about them
The 7 PRC probably used a powder initially that hornady can't get now in sufficient quantities-- say, Reloder 26, which is known both for its high speed and its scarcity. RL26 would definitely be in the range for this cartridge and would be among the highest MV powders with a 175. I don't see this as a bait and switch at all. I see this as Hornady dealing with the same baloney shortages we've all been facing.
I'll hear it from the audience but buy a 6.5 CM or PRC or a 7mm Rem Mag and chose your bullet wisely. I do like the 7mm-08 too and used to have one. I regret having sold it.
Appreciate you mentioning RSTV, but consider that a good number of people come to YT and the member was mentioning that there's an extraordinary amount of advertising on your channel. I write software for a living, free software that is used by people like you on the Internet all the time. I hope you support Open Source Developers yourself, as without them there would be no Internet.🤔
"Exert From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" In 1913, following the lead of French and German Army commands in developing the spitzer or pointed-tip bullet shape, the Spanish ordnance authorities issued a redesigned 7×57mm cartridge with a spitzer bullet (7 mm Cartucho para Mauser Tipo S).[21] It was loaded with a 9-gram (138.9 gr) spitzer bullet fired at a muzzle velocity of 850 m/s (2,789 ft/s) with 3,251 J (2,398 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 589 mm (23.2 in) long barrel. It had a maximum range of 3,700 m (4,046 yd).[20] The new spitzer bullet style was partially responsible for the cartridge's improved performance as it significantly reduced air drag within normal combat ranges and withstood higher accelerations in the barrel. Reverse engineering the trajectory from the previous sentence indicates a ballistic coefficient (G1 BC) of approximately 0.33.
Hey Ron, Hornady also swapped the small rifle primer in the 450 bushmaster to a large Rifle primer and told no one. Now they sell ammo that is outside saami specs. It's even published data in there own loading manual. This type of deception is becoming a habit with Hornady. (it matters to reloaders who have a bunch of the wrong primers now) I think they believe they are to big for our complaints to matter much to them. Please see if you can get a response from them regarding this issue.
All tests are with 24 or 26in barrels Not to mention different types of rifling and different qualities of manufacturing produce tighter barrels which also contributes to velocity Hornady uses high quality 26in match barrels to test yeilding the highest velocitys possible but the problem is it tends to outperform similar cartridges that Hornady copies like the 7mm rem mag. Long story short is that when people actually go and compare the two in real world scenarios they find that the rem mag outperforms the prc (it has a larger capacity so of course) The real problem is when people complain about it instead of clarifying Hornady calls everyone plebs gives a non apology and claims they did it all to help us poor consumers Honestly i wasn't even mad at Hornady until i heard their apology
I recently just got into hunting. I LOVE elk meat I tried from someone passing through. I want to hunt, but I have no idea really how to cut, clean, “field prep”. I’m in Oklahoma, is there any mentorship programs? One good trip with an experience person is what I feel I need.
I’m an avid hand loader and hunter. I never chronograph my loads. Don’t care how fast they are. I only care about accuracy and consistency. At the end of the day if a fast load won’t hit the mark it means nothing and is useless.
Aloha Ron, try doing a comparison of the Hornady eld-x, and the federal eld-x. I have not been able to get the federal's here where I live but I have run the Hornady's and also the Federal Terminal Ascent rounds through my CVA Cascade xt, which has a 24 inch Barrel. Out of my rifle The Hornady's are getting only 2790 FPS average on 5 shots, while the Federal Terminal Ascent is coming in at 3008 FPS on 5 shots. Federal advertises 2950FPS on their box. Just wondering what you think? Aloha!!
Call a lot of hockey on Hornady’s response. Hornady would have been welled served to come out and say they have not came close to the speeds they still print on their boxes of ammo. I guess Federal has a crap ton of the powder that burns quicker. What Hornady was getting to begin with on the other powder simply isn’t the same as now. The real rub is that they do not update their figures!
Good morning, Ron. Another great video, as always. I lived in Haiti for over 14 years. I never saw a single "advertisement" until I came back to the states, Alaska for now. The "advertisements" seem to be put onto the YT videos by the Internet Provider, NOT by YT itself. I hope that this helps people understand where those pesky "advertisements" come from. Have a great day.
Hornady made the ammo , hornady made the box. They can change the powder ,they can change the box. They didn’t . They knew of an issue and didn’t inform consumers until they were caught .
This is my thoughts exactly, They could have included an insert paper in the box explaining or a sticker on the outside, not hard or very expensive... shame on Hornady.
@@canuckmagnum5841 They knew that it would kill sales!
Hornady designed the cartilage, theirs zero excuse for them not to deliver what they sold. Their magic barrel still shoots similar velocity but your rifle may be 150fps under
My issue with Hornady is that they should have retested their new loads when they knew they changed the powder and then updating their packaging accordingly. To not do so was fraudulent and really lowers my opinion of their company. Market issues is one thing, not being straight with your customers is another.
The 7MM PRC is Hornady's baby (given that they developed it) and it was just getting to market when their powder supply issue hit. I believe that they knew they had a short window to get the public on board with the cartridge. They also knew that velocities are a key factor in what chambering customers select when purchasing a new rifle. After seeing the very comparable 6.8 Western fizzle (along with a stalled rollout for the 277 FURY), Hornady likely feared what would happen to their "wonder cartridge" if they had been upfront with customers.
I was born and grew up in India a long time ago. My daughter (who was born in the US) used to say when she was little that I was so old that I played baseball with Moses. In the old days, you had some peculiar chambering offerings by the Brits back when India still allowed hunting. You can find old Westley Richards catalogs which show 250-3000 double rifles which were advertised as great for hunting tigers. At the other end of the spectrum, the Brits sold a lot of big bore double rifles, most of which eventually ended up in the US after hunting was banned in the 1970s. I consider myself blessed to be in the United States and to be able to enjoy the freedoms here, to be able to hunt and to shoot.
Glad you're here enjoying your freedoms
I love hearing about other country’s choice of rifles and cartridges thanks for sharing. What other cartridges were popular then?
Ate you kidding me
Lead poison 😂
That’s a cool little story!
I am live in southeast Alaska born and raised and am building a 7 PRC for deer and the occasional elk and moose hunt. I reload and am not worried about the Hornady drama. Its a very capable round and am excited to play with something new
I just bought a 7 PRC for Whitetail, but don’t hand load. I’m not worried about though, since most of my shots are within a 100 yards. I know it’s meant for long range, but I just couldn’t help myself 😂
Love my 7PRC!!
These manufacturers make all these new calibers for marketing it’s all about the MONEY that’s it plan and simple. When it comes to the 7mm’s. If u can’t get in done with a 280-AI u aren’t going to get it done with any 7mm round. Also any shot pass 500 yards on an animal is just unethical hunting in my opinion. What happened to ethics and woodsman ship and respect for the animals we hunt. Just my opinion
@@EdH-k2q you should keep it
You clearly haven't done any real hunting. Either in the back country or the mountains
7PRC
175 ELDx
Peterson Brass
CCI MLR primers
68.5 gr H1000
3.26 COAL (Guide reccomendation)
24" barrel
Velocities measured on a Garmin Xero
5 - 20 round groups
3000 fps
8.5 SD
16 ES
.75 MOA off bench
1 MOA when I was shooting
Hell of a cartridge as far as I'm concerned. Also hearing that Federal is getting advertised speeds.
Working up a 195 berger load next.
“We reduced the velocity because we didn’t want to loose accuracy.”
But they didn’t change what they printed on the box, even though they knew those stated velocities weren’t true anymore.
Hello Ron, my name is Todd, and I have been watching your channel for a while now and have been reading your articles in magazines my whole life. I really enjoy both. You always give a lot of good information I for one, don't expect you to get all the information exactly correct. I have noticed a few mistakes or miss speaking, but it's not a big deal. I have to say that some of the people who are sending in corrections are very rude to you in the way they do it. If all these people expect you or anyone else to be perfect all the time, maybe they should start doing a podcast and see how much they know and or get correct. Please keep doing what you do because all of non-perfect people really enjoy what you are doing.
Im switching from Hornady to Federal ammo this summer, thinking ill try the Terminal Ascent and see if my rifle shoots it well. Not into sticking with a brand that will intentionally slow down ammo and keep posting false data on the box. Thank Ron, I have learned so much from you over the years.
Ever thought about going to a copper bullet?
I've been shooting Barnes copper since about 1992. I do most of my hunting with coppers including Hammer, Hornady CX, sometimes Winchester's...
@@drakeslocum2564 Yes i have been researching them a fair amaount. I have a couple boxes of superformance GMX but they didnt group well out of my rifle. However I learned from Ron, I may need to prep my rifle a bit before shooting them. I will try them again. I am definitely intrigued by the coppers
ethics not a factor for the company, being honest was warranted.
Nosler and Federal premium ! Trust me ! Every other brand has failed me at some point In time ! Under loaded win supreme! Under loaded Remington! Had failure to fire in 30-06 Remington ammo and win supreme 270 ammo once before !
1. A supresser show would be really cool.
2. I don't think there are anymore ads than average.
Love your show
My brother in law was a guide in Alaska, he was a fan of the 308 Norma but after getting into river kayaking he moved to a 18" 375 H&H Mag and a low power scope, it was in stainless steel since its life was doomed to be lived in the bottom of a kayak or a canoe.
YES do a suppressor video.. you can do it so everyone will understand the difference aspects of it.
For the lefty wanting a 35 Whelen, I went for a Tradition Outfitters single shot rifle in 35 Whelen because I am also a lefty. It was about $360. The CVA Scout is also a good single shot rifle made in 35 Whelen. Single shots are easy to use as a lefty, relatively light weight, and cheap. Most of the time one shot is all that is needed anyway
I forgot about the Tradition brand . The CVA Scout Rifle in 35 Whelen is heavy to some but not to others you will appreciate the added weight it helps reduce some of the recoil.
@@clintonlayne9253 I went in a shop one day looking for a CVA in 35 Whelen, they only had the Traditions brand (which I bought). Before that I had never even heard of them. It’s a great gun though.
@@clintonlayne9253 also, the CVA and Traditions both come with muzzle breaks that screw off, so a suppressor could be put on.
@@drakeslocum2564 I have a Tradition brand Muzzleloader 50 cal. Left handed 1.66 twist . It's very accurate ML.
@@clintonlayne9253 I don’t have a muzzle loader, but would love to get one
My official position on the 7 PRC , a good cartridge that’s not needed ! Lots of people will buy anything that’s ( HYPED ) !….. Thanks Ron for all your hard work for us !…….
You can play this game with nearly every cartridge 🙄.
The 7 PRC is a modernized 7 REM mag. It wouldn't make sense for anyone to dump their old 7RM for a new PRC, but if you're in the market for a new rifle, the 7 PRC is just a better design. We just need more ammunition manufacturers to jump on it- and many have.
If we're going by the "it's not needed" logic, we would have stopped cartridge design in the 1930's.
Before someone jumps down my throat, I'm not a Hornady "fan boy", I don't own a 7 PRC, and likely never will since I'm perfectly happy with my 7 REM Mag.
@@nuckyduk15 It’s not needed ( except maybe for target use ) because there are superior and inferior 7 mm cartridges , why do we need to squeeze another 7mm cartridge somewhere in the middle ?….. It’s all about selling new rifles !…….
@@thomasdaum1927 if that is your stance, then no new cartridge after 1906 is "needed". 30-06 is more than sufficient to do anything INCLUDING target use. The issue is that there are cartridges that do things better. Being able to purchase a 28 cal rifle that comes with a 1:8 twist from the FACTORY, with magazines /magazine wells suited to take big, long , heavy-for-caliber bullets is incredible. I know that 180 gr .284 cals are great for target shooting, but they also smack the dog snot out of deer and elk. I am 7mm fanboy, and the 7 PRC definitely is needed and has a great place and defined purpose in the collection.
@@andrewbrewer9039 we already have the 7 Rem mag , 7 Dakota , 7 WBY , 7 STW , 7 Ultra , 7x64 and several 7 mm wild cats . So we ( NEED ) another 7mm cartridge ? The average hunter doesn’t need or want a heavy for caliber bullet as 90% of deer and elk are taken at 300 yards or less . At that range ( 300 yds or less ) a lighter bullet like a 160 gr would have a flatter trajectory than a 180 ! It’s just all about selling new rifles !…..
@@thomasdaum1927 yes, there are TONS of 7mm options. My point was, using your logic, every cartridge developed after 1906 falls into your category of "not needed". 30-06 does everything that any cartridge ever created after does. Flat (enough) to 300, heavy enough for large (north American) game, light enough for medium sized game, etc. Having options and niche applications for different rifle/ cartridge options is a good thing. OBVIOUSLY rifle companies are going to want to sell more rifles....thats literally the reason they exist. Also, 7PRC was developed by hornady and, last time i checked, they arent in the rifle making game. The benefits of heavy-for-caliber bullets isnt just trajectory my friend, they are easy (er) on rifle barrels, they ALWAYS have higher SD (which is muy importante for hunting, regardless of range), and they retain a lot more energy on target at all ranges. I really want to go into all of the cartridges you listed, and why they arent good examples for this discussion, but I honestly dont have the energy right now lol. Conclusion: 7mm PRC is a badass round, that deserves its spot on the shelf. It isnt "unneeded", nor is it necessary for every hunter.
Australia has .243 for more for the smaller deer species then .277 for Red Deer and Sambar, but it varies by state.
Australia's minimum bullet for deer is a .243 and .270 for Sambar deer as they can get to 300kg. There are also rules for minimum energy requirements of something like 1,000ft/lb @100m however they might be state specific. There are also minimum recommendations for certain applications. Also i have just chrono'd Hornady 55gr Vmax and gotten 240fps under the box speed from my LA102 with a 22" barrel but then my 300prc is with in 20fps of the box speed using 212gr ELD-X.
the main problem with the hornady excuse is that they never said they had to slow down the load but even worse just kept putting that lie right back on all the boxes
GET A CLUE KID, 90% OF THE VELOCITY DATA ON EVERY BOX OF AMMO YOU HAVE EVER BOUGHT IS FALSE
WHY HOLD HORNADY TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN ANYONE ELSE? OH, I KNOW WHY. YOU ARE JUST A CHILDISH LUTTLE HATER. 😂
Correct!
#Fraud
They can't keep saying it's "better" than the 7mm remington magnum, if they put up their real numbers. I'm guessing it will be at least 2 years before anyone gets ahold of any RL26, so they should just advertise it with the correct velocities.
well wonder how many boxes they had made up all ready and anyone who goes by what the box says is wrong already for you can take three guns and they will have up to 150 to 200 fps the main trouble i see is people today have become whinny babys about everything
Any reloader would have said damn near the same thing hornady did. They couldn't get the exact powders they needed so rather than making sure velocity is met they make sure it shoots well. No one reloads for speed they reload for accuracy. Would you rather have a super fast 2 moa gun or a slightly slower .5moa gun? I'd much rather sacrifice velocity for accuracy.
Great show Ron💯 Great perspective on the history commentary 🤙 Comes with age and experience, dealing with many types of people 👍 More importantly; thank you for sharing the response from Hornady ‼️💯
I agree on the use of the "clock" for calling shots. During 30:06 week it was a bit frustrating with the young guy trying to tell you where you hit. 2 o'clock, 2, 1/4" ... simple to follow.
If I moved to Alaska I would ask the local gunshops near me loads of questions before I purchased a gun for hunting and build a relationship with the shop and local hunters not so much for game but safety. Alaska is a wild looking place 🇦🇺
Seeing how much ammo availability the local shops have would also be a good thing.
35 whelen for me and I’d recommend the 7 mag as well for this youngster . Great tip about the double ear protection . I learned that on my own thankfully but it sure makes a difference . Awesome flinching tips,Ron . I’m going to try those out . I don’t flinch much ….or do I 🤔😂
Hahaha always worth making sure you don't flinch 😂 practice makes perfect, after all.
.375 H&H bolt action is a grate choice. 300 gn. Nosler partition bullet. There's no substitute for horsepower. As for recoil; with modern-day recoil break systems will do just fine. Use a "Lead Sled" which will help tame recoil too. The only time recoil is a problem, is at the target range. When your in the field you will not notice it. Your concentration is on the animal and not the rifle.
the unexpected can happen in Alaska, if a hunting guide is holding your hand on a guided hunt, then any rifle is great, but if your packing in unguided hunts or camping in the bush, most people carry a 300 mag or even a 338 mag. with heavy bullets. I lived in Alaska, hunt, trapped and fished and had a few confrontation with grizzly bears. trust me you will never feel the recoil of a rifle when a big bear is in your face !
Add a brake and never feel big recoil Period .
@@bobgyetvai9444 or hear anything again
I'm a long time 7 Rem Mag fan. As a hand loader I've seen nothing so far that convinces me to switch to the 7 PRC. A recent Little Crow Gunworks series comparing the two cartridges proves that the 7 Rem Mag has more powder capacity (not less) than the 7 PRC. Notwithstanding, the 7 PRC is outstanding...but not magic.
At least you get it. Hornady didn't design the PRC for people like us who already have a 7 Rem mag..... They designed it for people who don't yet have a Magnum 7.
I swear the FUDDS on this channel are worse than the Creedmore fanboys.
@@nuckyduk15 I'm assuming that by "FUDDS" you are referring to us long time hunters that have more experience than you. Folks that laid the groundwork for what you enjoy today. As a fanboy you should realize that Hornady misrepresented their 7 PRC with every printed label on every box of their ammo. That should tell you something.
Your advice on recoil is great, I learned to shoot on a 22, then a 30-30 and then an ‘06 and the first time I experienced recoil that bothered me was on a 338 lapua because the expectation just wasn’t there for anything else I’ve shot
Hello Dakota, you are doing now, (eg. what I wish I had done;) for the first 6 years, after I'd finished college.
As for a rifle selection, I'd suggest you seriously consider the tikka Hamer in 280 A.I.
Get one with a scope appropriate to the hunting style you intend to do.
For example, a 1-8 for closer to mid range hunting ( or if you're going to be tracking)
Otherwise, a 4-16 should suffice.
Please Note :
If you're expecting to work as a guide for brown bear.
Get a 375 ruger & an aftermarket takeoff barrel in 7prc.
That way with the use of a muzzelbreak you'll have everything covered.
They shouldn’t print it on the box 📦 if it’s not correct…
.22 with 60 grain bullets, over 2" OAL for deer and antelope in WY
Hoping to get a moose this year with the 7 PCR!! will let you all know how that goes if we do get one Cheers 🙂
I hope it does well for you. I plan to take a Whitetail with mine.
The 7mm rem mag Weatherby vanguard with the Weatherby muzzle brake is a baby to shoot, don’t be scared of it
I'd rather recommend a suppressor to new shooters if they have acces to them, which he does. Many people are scared by the sound, more so than the recoil itself. I agree on 7 rem mag though, although .30-06 will be just as good for most hunters.
lol…. I grew up on a very large cattle and sheep ranch in the Sacramento and Guadalupe mountains of southern New Mexico. I had access to a Remington 700 BDL in .270. Remington Model 722 chambered in .222, a Winchester Army Model 30 Carbine 1895 chambered in 30-40 krag, a Remington model 41 single shot bolt .22 and a handful of other rifles.
We had deer, mule, white tail… we had Antelope, pronghorns, bear and mountain lions. I know it’s hard to believe but I always had a .22 rifle in the pickup. I’ve shot a lot of cattle, sheep, deer and coyotes with the gun I had with me. Placement is important and lethal to most animals up to 100 yards. The gun I had on my scabbard was the Remington .222. I never lost a deer or coyote with the .222. One time, I had come home from college with a girlfriend during hunting season. Our ranch was private land and we restricted hunters to those who were friends or family. So over the generations deer had learned to flee to our ranch and stick to the mountains and more heavily wooded area. Anyway we were walking with our rifles when I saw a deer about 500 yards away. My Dad who was carrying a .270 said… that’s too far for your .222. I said give me a chance and if not, you take a shot immediately after I shoot. With my girlfriend watching on I sat down and braced the rifle on my knees, aimed… pulled the trigger and the buck jumped ran about 25’ and died. I’d hit him right in the heart. The point is, the .222 is more than sufficient to kill Deer or even Black Bear…. but placement is key.
I had my 270 rebarreled to an 18” 30/06 #5 contour with a 1/8 twist and load 208 grain bullets. I have also used a lot of off the shelf 150/180s. I love that rifle, only shoot suppressed, recoil isn’t an issue. I was an early .260 Remington fan, but now a 6.5 creedmoor is my go to. But my only bears are black bear and most of my shots are under 250 yards, I wouldn’t consider it a big bear cartridge.
If trying to go go from 30.06 to 35 whelen don't rule out a rebore. Very affordable. I have 2 done by JES bore service. One is an 1895 bored from 30-40 to 405 winchester. The other is a 94 winchester bored from 30-30 to 38-55. Great work, great accuracy
Here in Alberta, Canada, the smallest deer cartridge is .230. So, a 223 is off limits, as is a 22-250.
Same as here in Virginia.
Oregon down on the Left Coast of United States has a lot of liberals moving into it thank God they haven't screwed with calibers and straight wall cartridges yet. 22 caliber or bigger for dear, 24 caliber or bigger for elk....
Not in Saskatchewan tho .223 n up including 22-250
You are correct Ron in the state of Victoria Australia you must use a minimum of 270 with 150 grain or bigger for Samba deer hunti g
I just got my cva cascade in 30-06 out and compared to the 308 I already had, the increased recoil very minimal. I did have a bit of flinch but if I keep on the rifle I can easily get over that flinch. I love that cascade. I'm not a great shot yet but I'll tell ya, an inch at 100 is super good for me!
What might be a lot easier than doing a suppressor comparison would be to check out different hearing protection. One example is walker. I use the earmuffs and not only do the cut down the sound they enhance sound around you at the same time. There are a bunch of these styles out there nowadays and even some earbub style. I don't have anything against silencers but that would be a much cheaper route and you don't have to worry about a tax stamp.
My dad bought me my first deer rifle at 12. It was a Remington 7400 in 30-06. You'll be more than fine with either.
it’s really just a slightly better designed 7mag . if I was to buy a new 7mm I’d probably go the prc but if I had a 7 mag already I wouldn’t replace it with a 7 prc. it just doesn’t do enough better to justify it .
My deer gun is a 22-250. Last 2 iv shot were heart shots at 100 yards it did the job
I love your shows.
I know you might have covered it before, but could you talk about shooting discipline and the problem with buck fever and using a large capacity, semi-auto for hunting deer and other medium to large, and fast game.
Everyone is different. During a sudden and unexpected period of excitement, some people panic and lock up or overreact. Others, not always but sometimes because of training and experience, switch into an unemotional mood and react calmly and deliberately.
I have an M1 Carbine. Years ago I took it hunting and one of my many brother-in-laws saw it and decided to get one. He was a very experienced hunter and had taken a lot of deer in the past. He took his M1 Carbine hunting in brush country and, when a buck suddenly broke cover near him, he dumped a fifteen-round magazine at the running deer. He and I decided right then that he needed to return to his lever action Marlin 336 to hunt deer.
I have no problem with people using large-capacity semi-auto rifles for pest control of smaller or shorter animals such as hogs. They are short animals and any misses go into the ground near the animal. But a miss on a large and fast-moving game animal like a deer could result in a tragedy as the rounds that miss the target could travel a long distance.
Shaw sells complete rifles available in left-hand, 35 Whelen. I have a left-hand Shaw MK VII in 338 federal. Built on a savage action. Very nice rifle and no barrel swap needed.
30-06 all day long and twice on Sunday. Will do anything you need done in Alaska and with lighter bullets you could handily shoot small game. Biggest plus, no lousy belt on the case!
I shoot Hornady 338 Lapua 250 grain ELD-M for plinking at my local range. Using a Garmin Xero chronograph it averages 2928 and the boxes is 2900. It’s a 27” Brux Barrel that has been hand lapped. So, I might be getting a few 2-4% fast speeds than an “Off the Shelf” rifle.
Seems to me that Hornady should've said something... But, I could care less about this under performing ammo since you still have the tighter tolerances that contribute to accuracy... I just don't think that the elk on the other end is going to complain much about being shot with that 200 fps slower bullet. Most of my handloads are slower anyway since I load for accuracy instead of just speed.
Good job and yes do a suppressor episode!
Hey Ronnie I would just like you to know that I only suffered through one commercial in the whole hour UA-cam presentation. I watch from Canada so maybe that makes a difference but not enough commercial content to complain about here. Thanks again. Keep on keeping on.
The caller is incorrect on case capacities of the 7PRC vs 7mm Rem mag. The 7 PRC has a slightly less case capacity than the Rem mag.
30-06 best all round choice. 220 for bear and 150-180 for everything else.
22 centerfire cartridges are legal in Wyoming for deer, antelope, mountain lion, and wolves so long as the cartridge length is at least 2 inches and the bullet weighs at least 60 grains, FYI. That changed about 10 years ago. Other big game still requires 24 caliber.
A hard spot to be in as a business. As an analyst, the appropriate recommendation would be to update the ballistic data table on the box as it pertains to the lot of manufacture. However, this is an additional cost to reproduce the digital media on the box, so I am good with the official statement, but a bit too late and not well disseminated.
Yes a general test maybe regarding weight point of aim shift , price point etc might be worth it
I'm using UA-cam Premium and it is commercial free, worth every penny IMHO. The biggest advantage to 7 PRC is seldom spoken about. The chamber tolerances to meet SAAMI specs is much tighter than the 7 Rem Mag, this helps with accuracy over a wide range of manufacturers. For handloaders this is a real boon to achieving the best results. For left handed shooters the new Beretta BRX1 straight pull looks like a winner. The end user can shift from right to left hand bolt and ejection with no tools other than a pointed bullet to ease the releases. Not sure about the calibers as you can change barrels at home once the kits become available.
The powder will come, I love my 7 mag but I bought the prc for the down range ballistics. I love their match ammo ,their 108s and EOls ..my desk is stocked full of them
Hey Ron I just finished up watching .30-06 week I've always been a .06 fan since I was a little boy but do you think the next time you do a caliber week we could get the 7mm-08
Dakota, try a 338-06, a little bit bigger bullet and the recoil is manageable, better yet, 338 Win Mag, train in to it, but man-up, a flinch is all mental, if recoil is that troublesome, you may want to reconsider an Alaska Life Changing Move. It is not a place to be undergunned.
If you reload, getting the 30-06 and a .300 Win Mag….both .30 cal and primers are the same
You can even interchange some powders…..
regarding round nosed vs spitzer bullet: subsonics tend to have better accuracy with round nose while supersonic not as fussy but spitzer ever so slightly better.
Great information as usual. Would love to see an episode reviewing different suppressors
My first gun was a Remington 700 7mm rem mag. Fantastic gun and caliber! Can't go wrong with that combo. That being said i love historical cool guns and fell in love with old winchesters and mausers so now i use my k98k 8x57is or 1886 45-90 for everything 😁
300 Win Mag with a suppressor is how I would go( and have taken to AK). Big enough for about anything up there, and with a can it'll soften the kick. My second choice would be the 7mm Rem Mag, which I also have.
For the guy trying to call shots. Put a blank target down on the table beside the shooter than get the shooter to hand you ghe spent cartrige. When he does just use the spent cartrige to put down on the target beside him/her to indicate where the last shot landed on the cartrige. In that way they only have to scan the table to see the called shot.
For the barrel the cheapest way to go is JES reboring you can send a 30/06 in and have him bore the barrel out to 35 whelen the gun is very accurate and he does a great job.
Also make sure you use a scope with good eye relief and mount it correctly so you don’t get scoped. 😊
I would like to see you test silencers. We have some nice looking silencers for hunting from Norway, like the Freyr & Devik Featherweight 269 with titanium core.
Let us know if PHR gets out hunting!! Ron you are a class act!!
Do a silencer video going through all the different factors to consider when getting one.
Hi Ron,
I love your content, you do a very good job reducing complex shooting issues to a common man’s understanding of ballistics. However I note a few aspects that lead me to believe you don’t fully understand some of the nuances that do not matter at traditional hunting ranges but matter a lot at longer ranges. I would be happy to help you fully understand some of the nuances.
To be clear, I am biased, the chief engineer for Berger. I work hand and hand with Brian Litz. So, deep into the technical nuances. But if you would like to understand more I think I could help you.
Ron. I watch all of your podcasts often more than once. I glean tremendous knowledge and other insights on my own experience. It’s why I cherish being a patreon.
Why is you do not do talks regarding those of us that shoot single shots exclusively. I own several ranging from .22LR to 458wm. I have several that I use more than others. ie) 30:06, 7mm, 358win and now a 35 whelen recently I watched you video with your knew 7mm single shot. You know the attributes of the single shot. Would you not agree they deserve a bit of recognition and love.
Please keep up your magnificent videos You do not just entertain, you educate and that benefits all of us.
Loyal patreon.
Cailean
Scotland.
Thank Cailean. I do try to give the single shots some love, but for a true believer perhaps not enough. Will keep trying.
Got the same faves rifles in your calipers as you except the 35 Whelen. I love them all..I usually carry a 7mm Mauser here in Kentucky for hunting medium game, especially deer size critters..it's a perfect round for that..Hello Scotland! 🏴....Salute!..🇺🇲
Thank you Micheal.
Over the past months I have come to love and enjoy the 35 whelen I have completed a new Remington rolling block in 35 whelen. It was one of my 30-06 rem rollers. I’m now working on a 7x57 Mauser conversion/ rebuild of another Remington rolling block of the old 7 mm with the odd / old sized 7mm cartridge I also just obtained a ruger no 1 in 7x57. So I now have 3 fave calibre cartridges. 458 win mag , 35 whelen. And the 7x 57 Mauser.
On the history correction, that gentleman failed to mention what our military stated was the main reason for their advantage with the 7x57. It was their use of smokeless powder. All of our ammo was still black powder. Black powder gives your position away with every shot. We couldn't see their positions.
Ron, I actually thought about the younger generation being Digital minded .😊 After my comment on the clock principal. The Savage 110 Axis II with the accuracy trigger. Mauser 98 and 03A3 any 3006 /270 long action would work to convert to a 35 Whelen. There are many Sporterized Mil Surplus rifles that can be had for less dollars . Or buy a CVA Scout Rifle in 35 Whelen the barrel is threaded it's drilled and tapped and comes with a compensator for under 500.00 bucks for the stainless steel models and under 400 for the blued actions but may not be threaded.
The 35 Whelen is a standard length action. There are three action sizes, Short, Standard, and Magnum. I would be careful with Military surplus rifles for the conversion. With handloading, you can easily over pressure the old actions.
@@doylethorn9251 The Mauser 98 and the 03A3 can handle the pressure. Some Spanish actions were known to be too weak for the conversation s..
All ammo manufacturers have issue with velocity accuracy.
If your at all serious about shooting youll chrono your ammo.
But I only rounds thats I have handloaded myself.
But in my world 0.001 of an inch counts.
Thanks Ron
Ron P.S. instructor's are using this now, specially with greener recruits. Yes they got the idea from me but I'm just a sudynim, not a brag there!
Hey Ron- I’ve watched this video a couple times over the last couple months. Im wondering how Hornady can print a velocity on the box that is based on powder that’s not actually in the cartridge customers are buying. That seems like cut and dry case of false advertising. They should mark the boxes accurately. When they finally start loading reloader26, or whatever they were using originally to reach 3000fps, there’s going to be a lot of people buying ammo for a hunt, only to have their dope and velocity change all of a sudden without any way to know beforehand. Crazy
When I started shooting, I did not eveng think about possible flinting etc... luckily I did not get that.
Ron you hit another home run with this one. Maybe you should've been up at bat for those University of Kentucky Wildcats baseball team in the College World Series! Still, a first time in the series. Go Cat's!
I wonder if Daniel, claiming that the stripper clip for the Mauser is superior to the Krag Jorgensen reloading system has ever done a comparison between the two? I’d bet that a mad minute comparison would find little difference between the two systems. I, also, haven’t done the comparison, but I would love to do so when I find a Krag to test (my preference would be to find one in 6.5x55 as was intended). I’ve loaded rifles with stripper clips before and it’s rarely ever very fast. The Krag system has its advantages, particularly logistically, as you don’t need to manufacture the clips and supply ammo in clips to the forces. That would be a fun video to watch, anyway. As Ron pointed out, it may not really have even been a competition between the Krag and the Mauser as much as it was a competition between the trapdoor Springfield and the Mauser. Also, it’s worth noting that in the military(not just the military), any poor performance on the field, if it can’t be blamed on a particular officer, is usually blamed on ‘outdated’ equipment. It will never be blamed on the higher-ups, ever. Also, I’ve also seen people say that it was black powder vs smokeless powder, but the .30-40 Krag was the first smokeless powder cartridge in American use (the 8mm Lebel was the first smokeless powder cartridge) so that might be accurate only if you assume the comparison between the .45-70 and the 7x57, but not the .30-40 Krag.
To PHR.. Brother God Bless Ya..I dont all you have been or going on in life , but I can sure relate. Hopefully you can get this fall..I will be praying we both do n those with simliar things ..
I have not had a short action magnum, but I’ve heard they don’t feed well no matter which one you choose. I don’t own one nor have I known anyone that owns a 7 PRC, but many are not achieving the velocities that we should be getting not matter what powder. example if you’re looking in their Hodgins reload E manuel it shows different powders achieving over 3000 FPS with 175 grain bullet. … but yet a lot of people online are not able to achieve this without going over max pressure (5 to 6 grains over max just to achieve 175grn pill=3,00 fps… has been more like 2850 fps reality with 24 “ barrels.
it so either manufactures or changing their powders or something else is gone goofy.
you will not see much of a difference between the 7 PRC, the 7WSM, and the 7 Rem mag. What you are gaining is a better-designed factory chamber. The longer freebore will allow a reloader to make better use of modern bullets. The 7 PRC’s modern design will lead to a much better selection of factory ammunition
Banish 30 is awesome - Silencer Central for the best hunting cartridges
Would enjoy a deep dive on suppressors. A new rifle I just bought has a threaded barrel and have always wanted a reason to put on a suppressor! But just don’t know all there is to know about them
The 7 PRC probably used a powder initially that hornady can't get now in sufficient quantities-- say, Reloder 26, which is known both for its high speed and its scarcity. RL26 would definitely be in the range for this cartridge and would be among the highest MV powders with a 175.
I don't see this as a bait and switch at all. I see this as Hornady dealing with the same baloney shortages we've all been facing.
For the Alaska fella, I would recommend a 35 Whelen.
For a 28 year old, unless he reloads, not a great choice. Is 35 Whelen common on shelves in Alaska?
I feel recoil at the range but not in the woods while I’m shooting at game.
Tikka t3x is available in left hand I am pretty sure.
Hello Ron have you tried the recoil pad from Jim Harmer (Backfire)?
I'll hear it from the audience but buy a 6.5 CM or PRC or a 7mm Rem Mag and chose your bullet wisely. I do like the 7mm-08 too and used to have one. I regret having sold it.
ron spomers history is spot on!? wth...
Appreciate you mentioning RSTV, but consider that a good number of people come to YT and the member was mentioning that there's an extraordinary amount of advertising on your channel. I write software for a living, free software that is used by people like you on the Internet all the time. I hope you support Open Source Developers yourself, as without them there would be no Internet.🤔
Dacota is rit! I started with a .22 and grue to 12 gage! Yep!
"Exert From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" In 1913, following the lead of French and German Army commands in developing the spitzer or pointed-tip bullet shape, the Spanish ordnance authorities issued a redesigned 7×57mm cartridge with a spitzer bullet (7 mm Cartucho para Mauser Tipo S).[21] It was loaded with a 9-gram (138.9 gr) spitzer bullet fired at a muzzle velocity of 850 m/s (2,789 ft/s) with 3,251 J (2,398 ft⋅lbf) muzzle energy from a 589 mm (23.2 in) long barrel. It had a maximum range of 3,700 m (4,046 yd).[20] The new spitzer bullet style was partially responsible for the cartridge's improved performance as it significantly reduced air drag within normal combat ranges and withstood higher accelerations in the barrel. Reverse engineering the trajectory from the previous sentence indicates a ballistic coefficient (G1 BC) of approximately 0.33.
Hey Ron, Hornady also swapped the small rifle primer in the 450 bushmaster to a large Rifle primer and told no one. Now they sell ammo that is outside saami specs. It's even published data in there own loading manual. This type of deception is becoming a habit with Hornady. (it matters to reloaders who have a bunch of the wrong primers now) I think they believe they are to big for our complaints to matter much to them. Please see if you can get a response from them regarding this issue.
Well done. Many thanks.
Ron can you use a slow or fast rifle powder in a muzzle loader??????? And how do you cross it over please??????
Another You tube content creator Mason Leather on UA-cam has found most printed ammo on the box no matter what caliber is usually slower they claim.
Many were shot through a Tikka, which is known to run slow.
He almost always uses a shorter barrel. When using the test length barrel most manufacturers are pretty accurate except Hornady
All tests are with 24 or 26in barrels
Not to mention different types of rifling and different qualities of manufacturing produce tighter barrels which also contributes to velocity
Hornady uses high quality 26in match barrels to test yeilding the highest velocitys possible but the problem is it tends to outperform similar cartridges that Hornady copies like the 7mm rem mag.
Long story short is that when people actually go and compare the two in real world scenarios they find that the rem mag outperforms the prc (it has a larger capacity so of course)
The real problem is when people complain about it instead of clarifying
Hornady calls everyone plebs gives a non apology and claims they did it all to help us poor consumers
Honestly i wasn't even mad at Hornady until i heard their apology
Decota - maybe a 6.8 Western with the 175 grain
I recently just got into hunting. I LOVE elk meat I tried from someone passing through. I want to hunt, but I have no idea really how to cut, clean, “field prep”. I’m in Oklahoma, is there any mentorship programs? One good trip with an experience person is what I feel I need.
I’m an avid hand loader and hunter. I never chronograph my loads. Don’t care how fast they are. I only care about accuracy and consistency. At the end of the day if a fast load won’t hit the mark it means nothing and is useless.
Aloha Ron, try doing a comparison of the Hornady eld-x, and the federal eld-x. I have not been able to get the federal's here where I live but I have run the Hornady's and also the Federal Terminal Ascent rounds through my CVA Cascade xt, which has a 24 inch Barrel. Out of my rifle The Hornady's are getting only 2790 FPS average on 5 shots, while the Federal Terminal Ascent is coming in at 3008 FPS on 5 shots. Federal advertises 2950FPS on their box. Just wondering what you think? Aloha!!
Yep I'm getting 3,000 with the terminal ascent also
Love your videos!
But consider slowing down on the 60 minute ones in favor of 30 minutes or so...
Just a thought!
Call a lot of hockey on Hornady’s response. Hornady would have been welled served to come out and say they have not came close to the speeds they still print on their boxes of ammo. I guess Federal has a crap ton of the powder that burns quicker. What Hornady was getting to begin with on the other powder simply isn’t the same as now. The real rub is that they do not update their figures!
Good morning, Ron. Another great video, as always. I lived in Haiti for over 14 years. I never saw a single "advertisement" until I came back to the states, Alaska for now. The "advertisements" seem to be put onto the YT videos by the Internet Provider, NOT by YT itself. I hope that this helps people understand where those pesky "advertisements" come from. Have a great day.