Post TBC Launch EDIT ! - For TBC Classic this video was already obsolete as soon as the beta went up and I had intended to update for TBC - Classic but have not had time. Due to low boss HP and to higher than anticipated early raid dps (in particular hunter shot animations not being locked to 0.5s and many other quirks/bugs/unforseen circumstances) the Death Wish speed kill build is already super popular with bosses flopping over so fast, that means trinkets like Badge of the Swarmguard (AQ40) have extreme niche value, and Troll Berserking Racial is also stronger than anticipated for the very same reason. So consider my section on trinkets as outdated information, my crystal ball was just looking backwards! Bloodlust Brooch, DST, Hourglass, Badge of the Swarmguard and Mark of the Champion are the mainstays. Abacus (from Mechanar) is also really decent.
Good stuff, I'm gonna favorite this video and review it again once TBC is out for sure. Now to see if I'll actually get to play Fury or If I'll be told to warm the bench for the entire expansion, lol
I appreciate the support, It may not be my most popular video but I put more work into this than any previous ones. A mentioned though due to changes Blizzard made a few things are off. Mostly in regards to the helmet meta socket crit gem (its not available in phase 1), cloak of darkness + shadowprowler's chestguard are also not available in Phase 1, and weapons like Fool's Bane and Decapitator can no longer be used in the offhand (until a later date). Thanks Ryan!
I like your videos man i hope to watch u on some raiding streams with your warrior, i don't have so much time for playing TBC so watching you always bring me memories.
Hello there Bigbazz, really loving the fury vids/guides. Someone has to step out for the fury warrs out there :P . Tbh, I have a question for you. Im still leveling tbc and I really feel like 9% hit is not enough, I went for 11% ( 8 % from gear, 3 % talents) and i still feel like i am missing so many attacks. So uh, whats your preferred hit rating on your fury? :) I'd love to hear the answer, see ya on other vids.
Basically the hit rating issue is kinda weird. The better your gear the less hit rating you need, essentially it's all about hitting a rage threshold to where you can regularly press heroic strike. Since while Heroic Strike is queud the offhand cannot miss at all. Rage is generated by damage (so more damage = more rage) so you can get it through consistent damage (hit/exp) or through raw damage (AP/Crit/Haste/Ignore Armor).. As a result Hit is the weakest stat beyond 9%, that doesn't mean it's not valuable though and especially in T4 when rage is low it can make life easier to have a decent amount to smooth things out. Take items with hit, just don't prioritise it over other stats, find a balance. In T5 then hit will mostly be an afterthought, again it still has value but weaker than all the other stats (because in best case scenario you almost always have the ability to queue heroic strike where hit loses all its value beyond 9%).
@@Bigbazz86 Thanks for the answer. Thats the thing, if you dont hit your attacks, you basically cannot dps and it really hurts to watch because i know the damage output when you have 60+ rage most of the time. So as always and every expac, the rage and damage comes from higher tier gear as you generate more through big hits. I think Im gonna stick around 11% until i get some raid gear and then ill manage it as I see how the rotation feels. Great to have some solid fury guides in TBC to reasure my choices.
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&warrior&330050013020000000000000505000550501205311510000000000000000000000 - That's my basic talent build, sometimes I swap UW for improved demo shout. Maybe I'll make another video in future as a gameplay/build guide.
I don't have access to TBC beta, but the maces were already the best option in the original TBC playthrough, and while I'm aware on some private servers they are even stronger and skew results further, I don't expect anything to change in the pecking order, even if you're an orc. Either way though, the axes for orc are a really strong choice, the main reason you don't want to go that route is because Axe is the worst 2handed option in PvP and Stormherald is king. Not a problem if you don't want to PvP anyway, but some of the PvP items are very strong in PVE too, in particular S3-S4 stuff.
Please educate me. Does str not equate to AP in tbc? The LW cloak vs vengance wrap. Like 25 str=50 ap. Plus kings. 1 more crit rating as well as more crit with socket bonus. Assuming another str gem in the socket (not sure),stam and more armor...how is vengance wrap better? I feel like the LW cloak wins a very tight race. Can someone help me with this one?
It's extremely close between the two (which is why I always crafted the LW Cloak). 1 STR = 2ap (or 2.2 with kings), so we can value 1ap as 0.4545 of 1 STR with kings. So if we use the darkness cloak's 23 STR + 10% from kings as a normalised value and calculate the AP around that. Vengeance wrap is 52x0.4545 = 23.634 (Vengeance higher by 0.6). Then we look at Darkness has 24 crit vs 23 on vengeance, overall this puts the LW cloak ahead just slightly. But then the sockets, Vengeance has a red socket with a 2 hit rating bonus, Darkness has blue socket with 2 crit. The blue socket isn't worth taking so we still gem for 8 str, the red socket on Vengeance is just a free 2 hit rating. And that puts it very marginally ahead. Personally I think the stamina is more valuable, but if we're talking strict dps Vengeance just about slightly takes it.
If you're interested then I did create a spreadsheet a few years back - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11E1k1Di_enrJHOvH992EKBqCoAU7IQPpba6tQJkkQ9M/edit#gid=624140115 - This calculates gear value based on stat weights tailored to each progression phase of the expansion. Not a replacement for simcraft kinda calculations, but it gives you a very quick good reference to compare gear. In this case you should use the T4/5 tab.
Hey been doing alot of research on prebis, and alot of EP strings are prioing expertise very highly early on putting tbc.wowhead.com/item=30257/shattrath-leggings and tbc.wowhead.com/item=30341/flesh-handlers-gauntlets as the clear pre bis also making shapeshifters ring bis, what are your thoughts on this? Also a mention for warrs with naxx gear, classic.wowhead.com/item=23041/slayers-crest is almost as good as bloodlust brooch, wether it will change ur badge prio idk.
I actually created my own gearing guide spreadsheet a few years back based on Landsoul's sheet, my findings were that prior to Vashj's belt none of the expertise items were "must" have, though some of them were competitive. I think shapeshifter's ring is great for tanks, I would never equip it for Fury though, I think people are overvaluing Expertise. Don't forget, Expertise rating is the best stat per point, but it only counts when it grants exactly 1 full expertise and any rating that doesn't gets rounded down (effectively deleted on your char sheet). You have to weigh up all the stats on an item, and when you do that most of the early expertise items come up short, even if you overvalue expertise.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11E1k1Di_enrJHOvH992EKBqCoAU7IQPpba6tQJkkQ9M/edit#gid=624140115 - Here is my spreadsheet if you want to look. You can see how the gear is valued, this is based on the Landsoul dps sheet which is old, but I've yet to see anything more accurate. Edit : And for comparison's sakes, I will add those gloves too.
@@Bigbazz86 Oh i've looked at your sheet quite abit for the EP values and thank you for the response! abit hard to find the optimal weights with all the different pre raid guides going around! I see expertise is raited abit higher for arms, but it dosnt seem the 3 expertise items would be worth anyway with the lost expertise of rounding down i guess.
@@Brutalisman - Have you seen the new website seventy upgrades? seventyupgrades.com/set/tvEugzFLAEr7UbwkqjLnNv I made a pre-raid bis set there using my T4/5 EP and you should be able to see it with the mouseover. Honestly I think that pre-raid bis set is kinda pointless because it would take so much time you will have already got all T4 raids on farm before you get that set, but fun to do anyway. That site is pretty good, I put in my Sunwell weights and it pretty much auto-filled 1 button the correct Sunwell BIS set, it only kinda messes up weapons/trinkets and gems (for some reason it always gems crit/str even when the EP for 10 STR is higher).
@@Bigbazz86 Yeah i've been trying to get together an obtainable pre bis on that site with ur arms EP since im gonna be the demo/thunderclap bitch, does this seems attainable and is there anything you would swap out seeing as the hit rating is way too high? seventyupgrades.com/set/sLVxyx6zHhL3mYZovrprhf swapping bracers for felstalker if pvp aint out on release
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&warrior&330050013020000000000000505000550501205311510000000000000000000000 That's my basic build, sometimes I take improved demo shout though. Otherwise bartender, elvui, recount (tho I use details these days) etc.
You are stacking strength via gems, the reason for so much leather is because with the itemisation split into agility + ap you get a better use of the budget than on pure STR pieces. So for example instead of STR + Crit + Hit you may get AGI + AP + Crit + Hit, and particularly in pre-raid there is a distinct lack of well itemised/budgeted plate gear. Later on in the gearing process you find better itemisation on plate and it's competitive with the leather, or simply the outright best choice, though many leather pieces remain attractive throughout TBC for the same reason I mentioned above. And for what it's worth, this is also true in WOTLK even after they added the talent that gives you attack power for your armor value, it wasn't until Cataclysm they stopped leather being best for Warrior.
Ooof now that is a question. If you're going to PvP then definitely go mace because you will want Stormherald.. Otherwise it's a tough choice, I think with the expertise the Axe might be better in early days, but for speed kills in better gear I think Dragonstrike is still better due to how insane it is to stack the haste with Recklessness and Bloodlust Brooch etc. I'm making Dragonstrike and playing Orc in TBC Classic (not tauren like last time), but the numbers I'm seeing say axe may be a little better due to the expertise, in a general sense.
Honestly it massively depends on the boss and all the variables involved, if you wanna put a number on it you can take a good look at logs though. If you look at High King (where people cleave a lot) then Fury is top but Arms is almost equal. If you look at Magtheridon (more single target, with some cleave at the start) there are only 2 Arms Warriors in the top 50 and the top Arms Warrior is 600 dps behind the top Fury.
Yeah it's amazing and maybe I should have mentioned it, but as I said I was mostly trying to cater it to fresh chars, I don't think many will have access to it. But yeah, a bit of an oversight on my part, it's amazing where it works, by any standards.
@@littlemingo - When I do my T4 BIS list I will be sure to include it. It's like the Might of the Scourge enchant, I only realised I had forgot it after I finished recording the audio and then quickly added it into the screenshot for comparison before uploading the video.
@@Mancastle I'll take it into account for the next one, sometimes on some speaker systems/headphones I guess the stereo pan (music) can come out stronger than the mono (spoken audio).
Post TBC Launch EDIT ! - For TBC Classic this video was already obsolete as soon as the beta went up and I had intended to update for TBC - Classic but have not had time. Due to low boss HP and to higher than anticipated early raid dps (in particular hunter shot animations not being locked to 0.5s and many other quirks/bugs/unforseen circumstances) the Death Wish speed kill build is already super popular with bosses flopping over so fast, that means trinkets like Badge of the Swarmguard (AQ40) have extreme niche value, and Troll Berserking Racial is also stronger than anticipated for the very same reason.
So consider my section on trinkets as outdated information, my crystal ball was just looking backwards! Bloodlust Brooch, DST, Hourglass, Badge of the Swarmguard and Mark of the Champion are the mainstays. Abacus (from Mechanar) is also really decent.
Hey Bazz! Can I get a list of your talents for fury! And add-ons! Wanna mimic your build
Introduction/Disclaimers - 0:01
Helmets - 0:40
Neck - 1:56
Shoulders 2:48
Back - 3:32
Chest - 4:26
Bracers - 7:28
Hands - 8:20
Belt - 8:45
Legs - 9:20
Boots - 10:24
Rings - 11:00
Trinkets - 12:29
Ranged - 14:08
Weapons (Blacksmithing) - 14:37
Weapons (Non-BS) - 16:49
Gems - 17:52
Enchants - 18:59
Good stuff, I'm gonna favorite this video and review it again once TBC is out for sure.
Now to see if I'll actually get to play Fury or If I'll be told to warm the bench for the entire expansion, lol
Thanks for the video it was extremely helpful and it seems like you put a ton of work into it. I'll be coming back to reference this quite often.
I appreciate the support, It may not be my most popular video but I put more work into this than any previous ones. A mentioned though due to changes Blizzard made a few things are off.
Mostly in regards to the helmet meta socket crit gem (its not available in phase 1), cloak of darkness + shadowprowler's chestguard are also not available in Phase 1, and weapons like Fool's Bane and Decapitator can no longer be used in the offhand (until a later date).
Thanks Ryan!
The hammer vs axe thing for orcs has always been such a conflict.. axes look cool but my god are those crafted hammers godlike.
great video! loved it, looking forward to tbc classic =)
I like your videos man i hope to watch u on some raiding streams with your warrior, i don't have so much time for playing TBC so watching you always bring me memories.
sick content can listen to a welsh man all day
Hello there Bigbazz, really loving the fury vids/guides. Someone has to step out for the fury warrs out there :P . Tbh, I have a question for you. Im still leveling tbc and I really feel like 9% hit is not enough, I went for 11% ( 8 % from gear, 3 % talents) and i still feel like i am missing so many attacks. So uh, whats your preferred hit rating on your fury? :) I'd love to hear the answer, see ya on other vids.
Basically the hit rating issue is kinda weird. The better your gear the less hit rating you need, essentially it's all about hitting a rage threshold to where you can regularly press heroic strike. Since while Heroic Strike is queud the offhand cannot miss at all. Rage is generated by damage (so more damage = more rage) so you can get it through consistent damage (hit/exp) or through raw damage (AP/Crit/Haste/Ignore Armor)..
As a result Hit is the weakest stat beyond 9%, that doesn't mean it's not valuable though and especially in T4 when rage is low it can make life easier to have a decent amount to smooth things out. Take items with hit, just don't prioritise it over other stats, find a balance. In T5 then hit will mostly be an afterthought, again it still has value but weaker than all the other stats (because in best case scenario you almost always have the ability to queue heroic strike where hit loses all its value beyond 9%).
@@Bigbazz86 Thanks for the answer. Thats the thing, if you dont hit your attacks, you basically cannot dps and it really hurts to watch because i know the damage output when you have 60+ rage most of the time. So as always and every expac, the rage and damage comes from higher tier gear as you generate more through big hits. I think Im gonna stick around 11% until i get some raid gear and then ill manage it as I see how the rotation feels. Great to have some solid fury guides in TBC to reasure my choices.
Great thanks! any guides on going through the talent tree?
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&warrior&330050013020000000000000505000550501205311510000000000000000000000 - That's my basic talent build, sometimes I swap UW for improved demo shout. Maybe I'll make another video in future as a gameplay/build guide.
Do you think the BS axes are better for orc? since maces seem to have lower proc rate than in the private servers?
I don't have access to TBC beta, but the maces were already the best option in the original TBC playthrough, and while I'm aware on some private servers they are even stronger and skew results further, I don't expect anything to change in the pecking order, even if you're an orc.
Either way though, the axes for orc are a really strong choice, the main reason you don't want to go that route is because Axe is the worst 2handed option in PvP and Stormherald is king. Not a problem if you don't want to PvP anyway, but some of the PvP items are very strong in PVE too, in particular S3-S4 stuff.
good shit, keep doing this stuff
Please educate me. Does str not equate to AP in tbc? The LW cloak vs vengance wrap. Like 25 str=50 ap. Plus kings. 1 more crit rating as well as more crit with socket bonus. Assuming another str gem in the socket (not sure),stam and more armor...how is vengance wrap better? I feel like the LW cloak wins a very tight race. Can someone help me with this one?
It's extremely close between the two (which is why I always crafted the LW Cloak). 1 STR = 2ap (or 2.2 with kings), so we can value 1ap as 0.4545 of 1 STR with kings. So if we use the darkness cloak's 23 STR + 10% from kings as a normalised value and calculate the AP around that.
Vengeance wrap is 52x0.4545 = 23.634 (Vengeance higher by 0.6). Then we look at Darkness has 24 crit vs 23 on vengeance, overall this puts the LW cloak ahead just slightly.
But then the sockets, Vengeance has a red socket with a 2 hit rating bonus, Darkness has blue socket with 2 crit. The blue socket isn't worth taking so we still gem for 8 str, the red socket on Vengeance is just a free 2 hit rating. And that puts it very marginally ahead.
Personally I think the stamina is more valuable, but if we're talking strict dps Vengeance just about slightly takes it.
@@Bigbazz86 thats what i thought. Glad you cleared it up. Id rather have that stam as well :p. Appreciate you.
If you're interested then I did create a spreadsheet a few years back - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11E1k1Di_enrJHOvH992EKBqCoAU7IQPpba6tQJkkQ9M/edit#gid=624140115 - This calculates gear value based on stat weights tailored to each progression phase of the expansion. Not a replacement for simcraft kinda calculations, but it gives you a very quick good reference to compare gear. In this case you should use the T4/5 tab.
Hey been doing alot of research on prebis, and alot of EP strings are prioing expertise very highly early on putting tbc.wowhead.com/item=30257/shattrath-leggings and tbc.wowhead.com/item=30341/flesh-handlers-gauntlets as the clear pre bis also making shapeshifters ring bis, what are your thoughts on this?
Also a mention for warrs with naxx gear, classic.wowhead.com/item=23041/slayers-crest is almost as good as bloodlust brooch, wether it will change ur badge prio idk.
I actually created my own gearing guide spreadsheet a few years back based on Landsoul's sheet, my findings were that prior to Vashj's belt none of the expertise items were "must" have, though some of them were competitive.
I think shapeshifter's ring is great for tanks, I would never equip it for Fury though, I think people are overvaluing Expertise. Don't forget, Expertise rating is the best stat per point, but it only counts when it grants exactly 1 full expertise and any rating that doesn't gets rounded down (effectively deleted on your char sheet).
You have to weigh up all the stats on an item, and when you do that most of the early expertise items come up short, even if you overvalue expertise.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11E1k1Di_enrJHOvH992EKBqCoAU7IQPpba6tQJkkQ9M/edit#gid=624140115 - Here is my spreadsheet if you want to look.
You can see how the gear is valued, this is based on the Landsoul dps sheet which is old, but I've yet to see anything more accurate.
Edit : And for comparison's sakes, I will add those gloves too.
@@Bigbazz86 Oh i've looked at your sheet quite abit for the EP values and thank you for the response! abit hard to find the optimal weights with all the different pre raid guides going around! I see expertise is raited abit higher for arms, but it dosnt seem the 3 expertise items would be worth anyway with the lost expertise of rounding down i guess.
@@Brutalisman - Have you seen the new website seventy upgrades? seventyupgrades.com/set/tvEugzFLAEr7UbwkqjLnNv
I made a pre-raid bis set there using my T4/5 EP and you should be able to see it with the mouseover. Honestly I think that pre-raid bis set is kinda pointless because it would take so much time you will have already got all T4 raids on farm before you get that set, but fun to do anyway.
That site is pretty good, I put in my Sunwell weights and it pretty much auto-filled 1 button the correct Sunwell BIS set, it only kinda messes up weapons/trinkets and gems (for some reason it always gems crit/str even when the EP for 10 STR is higher).
@@Bigbazz86 Yeah i've been trying to get together an obtainable pre bis on that site with ur arms EP since im gonna be the demo/thunderclap bitch, does this seems attainable and is there anything you would swap out seeing as the hit rating is way too high? seventyupgrades.com/set/sLVxyx6zHhL3mYZovrprhf swapping bracers for felstalker if pvp aint out on release
@bigbazz86 could you send me a link to your talents and lists of add-ons pl! Trying to mimic u
tbcdb.com/talents/index.html?en&warrior&330050013020000000000000505000550501205311510000000000000000000000
That's my basic build, sometimes I take improved demo shout though. Otherwise bartender, elvui, recount (tho I use details these days) etc.
Isnt it better to stack strength due to Blessing of Kings giving extra value which Attack power does not?
You are stacking strength via gems, the reason for so much leather is because with the itemisation split into agility + ap you get a better use of the budget than on pure STR pieces.
So for example instead of STR + Crit + Hit you may get AGI + AP + Crit + Hit, and particularly in pre-raid there is a distinct lack of well itemised/budgeted plate gear.
Later on in the gearing process you find better itemisation on plate and it's competitive with the leather, or simply the outright best choice, though many leather pieces remain attractive throughout TBC for the same reason I mentioned above. And for what it's worth, this is also true in WOTLK even after they added the talent that gives you attack power for your armor value, it wasn't until Cataclysm they stopped leather being best for Warrior.
I play ORC war and cant decide between Mace weaponsmith or Axe :D
Ooof now that is a question. If you're going to PvP then definitely go mace because you will want Stormherald.. Otherwise it's a tough choice, I think with the expertise the Axe might be better in early days, but for speed kills in better gear I think Dragonstrike is still better due to how insane it is to stack the haste with Recklessness and Bloodlust Brooch etc.
I'm making Dragonstrike and playing Orc in TBC Classic (not tauren like last time), but the numbers I'm seeing say axe may be a little better due to the expertise, in a general sense.
How much DPS do you lose as amrs vs Fury warrior you think?
Honestly it massively depends on the boss and all the variables involved, if you wanna put a number on it you can take a good look at logs though. If you look at High King (where people cleave a lot) then Fury is top but Arms is almost equal.
If you look at Magtheridon (more single target, with some cleave at the start) there are only 2 Arms Warriors in the top 50 and the top Arms Warrior is 600 dps behind the top Fury.
What is about the Kt Trinket? 150 Attack power against Demon should be awesome 2...
Yeah it's amazing and maybe I should have mentioned it, but as I said I was mostly trying to cater it to fresh chars, I don't think many will have access to it.
But yeah, a bit of an oversight on my part, it's amazing where it works, by any standards.
@@Bigbazz86 Okay, but u was also bringing the Loatheb Ring too. So thats why i was asking. :)
@@littlemingo - When I do my T4 BIS list I will be sure to include it. It's like the Might of the Scourge enchant, I only realised I had forgot it after I finished recording the audio and then quickly added it into the screenshot for comparison before uploading the video.
If two drakefists are possible, is it still recommended to stack them vs grabbing a different OH?
They are main hand in beta right now.
@@jirijulku1093 Not quite what I'm asking but I do appreciate the reply! :)
Pre-raid 2x Drakefist/Dragonmaw is best, using T4 as a whole it's better to run Fool's Bane, or Decapitator (Orc) for the offhand.
@@Bigbazz86 Thanks bazz!
what about OH?
More TBC content! T4/T5!
Where is the talent guide?
hi , whats ur spec for fury warrior ?
17/44/0 with rampage, go down to impale in arms.
RiP my Gold all these BOE... :D
Yee with the gold inflation , youre probly gonna look at 5k+ for each pre raid bis piece first week
Chinese gold :) cheap
Love the accent my dude
According to this, goodbye wallet! haha
Background music is waaay too loud. I can't hear what you're saying at a few points.
What speakers you listening on? Checked this on phone, stereo hi-fi, headphones and TV and spoken is much louder here.
@@Bigbazz86 agreed audio is fine, possible a TINY bit loud but its a non-factor.
@@Mancastle I'll take it into account for the next one, sometimes on some speaker systems/headphones I guess the stereo pan (music) can come out stronger than the mono (spoken audio).