Thank you for the vid! I think somethings that I haven't seen covered in Warrior TBC vids is things like going more in depth about armor pen, boss armor values, niche trinkets like Badge of the Swarmguard, how Heroic Strike queuing will change previously thought things with fury in TBC, etc. Deeper looks into how the meta game will greatly shape how people feel about fury as there are frankly better dps slot options, fury scaling, giving warglaives to a fury vs rogue, etc.
You should watch my latest video on Badge if you haven't yet, it touches on ArPen and Boss Armor values! That's a good point on HS queueing, definitely something video worthy. I'll hold back on the Warglavies and fury scaling videos since we don't have any robust sims for TBC yet, but those are very good ideas! Thanks for the feedback :)
Havent seen many people ask for it, so id be interested in your more indepth trinket breakdown. I follow the warrior disc often and appreciate what you do there! keep em coming for the wars not class swapping :D
Legit video, I'd be interested in a video comparing trinkets. I have a feeling when sims come around we will realize we under valued expertise greatly so I wonder how much that may affect humans and orcs.
Thanks man! Working on that right now, hope to have it out sooner rather than later. I'm super interested in how TBC sims will affect the gearing meta, should be very interesting.
Good content. Can you do the later phases and show us some quantitative graphs or figures please?I like that you offer the value option for time investment - a lot of min/maxers often forget to optimize for that variable too haha. The game exist outside the spreadsheet sim
y0 marrow, if you use the socket bonus on doomplate gauntlets, you exchange 8 hit (or crit) rating for 16 stam, and that's *without* the set bonus. so yea i'd say they better than GoA overall.
What is your opinion of Clefthoof Hide Leggings vs Skulkers Greaves? I have both of these items (as well as T4). My other gear is very good but I'm not expertise capped obviously. Which would you choose?
Something needs to be mentioned about world boss loot is that it is now Bind on Equip, not pickup. So the shoulders and cloak from world bosses are actually accessible if you have deep pockets.
That's a good point. If I'm not mistaken, that change is only introduced later in the game (though I don't know which patch), but if it's in the game from launch it'll be incredibly important in shaping the gearing meta.
HMM probably Slayer's Crest, Band of Unnatural Forces, Wristguards of Vengeance, and Shroud of Dominion (in no particular order). And Badge of the Swarmguard too.
I don't think warriors will compete with locks/hunters (save on a few fights which are very favorable for warriors, like consistent cleave fights), but I also don't think they'll be as complete dogshit as some people make them out to be.
Love the video Marrow. What about the Dragonspine Trophy from Gruul's Lair for trinket? I noticed you added a few items from Gruul's Lair but not that.. any particular reason why?
Glad you liked the video! This video was just meant to show the first item in TBC you'd replace your P6 BiS with. I also didn't mention trinkets since that's another video in and of itself that I'm working on right now - I'll definitely mention DST then!
dont forget, if u play alliance, you are likely to have a shaman in your grp in raids, which is a draenei, which offers you 1% hit by racial, and you get 3% hit from boomkins, which means, you need 1% hit for a boss as an human warrior, which is kinda bonkers :D, would ve wished TF in the list, cuz due to fightclub discord, its only a bit weaker than gressil (ofc not considering the threat problem, but lets see how they nerf TF)
Awesome video, I like the options given, but obviously this has the potential to be completely different if we have patch 2.0? Shapeshifters gives dagger/feral skill right? What is your source for the expertise/hit caps? I've seen slightly different numbers on different sites Cheers
Hi Mitchell! Yep, you're right in that I'm mostly using the 2.4 itemization as a baseline. If I had to cover all the options across all the different patches, this video would be at least an hour long! My source for the expertise and hit caps is the old Elitist Jerks DPS Warrior Compendium. Here's the link: web.archive.org/web/20080625032704/elitistjerks.com:80/f31/t22705-dps_warrior_compendium/
For any Warrior, you need: 142 hit rating with 0 points in Precision 127 hit rating with 1 point in Precision 110 hit rating with 2 points in Precision 95 hit rating with 3 points in Precision
Not sure if i missed it but if you go off the 2.4.3 preraid bis list, fury warr gets more from strength/crit than hit/expertise, but for arms hit/expertise/str are all equal. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X-XO9N1_MPIq-UIpTN13LrhXRoho9fe26YEEM48QmPk/edit#gid=1706013572 go to "EP Values" sheet for info
Hey, thanks for the link! I have my doubts about those stat weights, to be completely honest. If we've learned anything from the theorycraft done in Classic, it's that stat weights fluctuate wildly depending on your current gear setup. So I'm not sure a blanket statement like that is correct. Also, Fury would also benefit from hit more if anything, since increasing amounts of hit past 9% (148 hit rating) actually further increase their chance to hit due to the DW miss penalty, while Arms warriors will never miss past that hit threshold.
@@Marrow_WoW that is actually correct, if i learned anything watching rogue guides from hardcore tbc players is that as dual wield you strive for the hit cap, like waaay more than you do in classic right now, atm a good rogue hit is like 14-16%, in TBC people are talking like 20% +, also if anything arms warrior cares a tiny bit less about expertise than a fury one due to the fact that he runs improved overpower and he often has less rage than a fury warrior which makes the stance switching more viable if he times it just before a weapon swing so that the rage of that swing goes into the new stance so to speak
@@HeavenShallBurn16 This might change in Classic TBC now that we know of the HS "bug" though. That hasn't been implemented in any of the TBC pservers that I know of.
@@Marrow_WoW that's a very good point, sad because bug but good point non the less, if you ask me hopefully blizzard will address it since it's gonna be out of the vanilla experience, rn their hands are probably tied in a sense that it existed for 1.5 year and it wouldn't really change all that much in terms of evening the play field so to speak, warrs would still be top dps with their always hitting off hands
Do it now. It will be near impossible to get casters to do anything except current raids as they all will be working on their crafted cloth epics. It's quite the gear path for TBC that doesn't allow people to do other things. Grind out your ten arena, I believe 5 is better points per week. You want arena points near cap untill you get your seasons 3 two pieces. You want your bg honor near cap to get the other parts as well as discount season gear to fill in your sets. It won't hurt you to have an epic survivability set that still has dps stats somewhere in the top 70% of optimization. Health pools will come into play in the Lair an definitely the heroics will need expanded health pools for some bosses. Idk how it went on pirate servers but in original TBC me an the boys before season three did lots of weird five man groups to beat an farm heroics. Two heals groups. We routinely used a messed up comp to farm one of the netherstorm heroics early on. A lock is crazy good for heroics. Warrior tank an rogue have amazing synergy with rogue lockdowns interupts. Maybe some people will be able to keep up a naxx schedule at 70. But I really don't see it happening.
Hey Marrow. My guild has an epgp system...do you think it worth snatching the band of unnatural forces or saving prio for MoM. If I am going to pvp tbc?
I think in terms of longevity, band of unnatural forces will be better - you'll only replace it with Kara rings, while you can replace MoM with Quantum Blade from H BM. If you're going strictly for PvP I guess you could make a case for MoM and which would allow you to jump straight into BGs/arenas without doing any dungeons, but I personally would just go for BUF and try and buy the mats for Thunder.
Arms is better for PvE than Fury in the sense that it actually provides an unique benefit to the raid in the form of Blood Frenzy (extra 4% physical damage done to the boss), but it'll do less individual DPS than Fury. The meta will likely be 1 prot 1 Arms until T6, when you can run 1 Arms 1 Prot and 1 Fury.
@@dusty_reaper96 An arms, Enchacmenr, prot Pala, combat rogue and tank warrior grp would make sence... So yeah u are correct on that maybe.. But again not a must have in my opinion
absolutely loved it marrow, please produce more videos for classic warriors wanting to learn TBC!
Will do, glad you liked the video!
16 year Arms Warrior vet here. Great video. Thanks!
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome first video! Keep up the great content!
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for the vid! I think somethings that I haven't seen covered in Warrior TBC vids is things like going more in depth about armor pen, boss armor values, niche trinkets like Badge of the Swarmguard, how Heroic Strike queuing will change previously thought things with fury in TBC, etc. Deeper looks into how the meta game will greatly shape how people feel about fury as there are frankly better dps slot options, fury scaling, giving warglaives to a fury vs rogue, etc.
You should watch my latest video on Badge if you haven't yet, it touches on ArPen and Boss Armor values! That's a good point on HS queueing, definitely something video worthy. I'll hold back on the Warglavies and fury scaling videos since we don't have any robust sims for TBC yet, but those are very good ideas! Thanks for the feedback :)
great content mate, exactly what i was looking for and seems inline with most resources ive already seen
Thank you for the kind comment, glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you so much for the great video. Was exactly what I needed. Level 65 fury warrior
Looking forward to seeing a phase 1 raid bis guide!
Thanks man, I'll be putting that one out soonish!
Havent seen many people ask for it, so id be interested in your more indepth trinket breakdown. I follow the warrior disc often and appreciate what you do there! keep em coming for the wars not class swapping :D
Hey, thank you for the kind words!! I've been slacking but I promise I'm working on it!
Great video Marrow :) See you out there!
So glad to see you’re on UA-cam Marrow! One of the best warrior theorycrafter out there.
Thank you for the kind words!
Marrow uses sumder, good warrior, good vid
sumder together strong
Hey just a quick tip, use drop shadow on some of your text / images, looks alot better
Will do from now on. Thank you!
Legit video, I'd be interested in a video comparing trinkets. I have a feeling when sims come around we will realize we under valued expertise greatly so I wonder how much that may affect humans and orcs.
Thanks man! Working on that right now, hope to have it out sooner rather than later. I'm super interested in how TBC sims will affect the gearing meta, should be very interesting.
If you’re arms you want to get dodged for a guaranteed crit. My OP crits for 2.4k with S3 gear
Good content. Can you do the later phases and show us some quantitative graphs or figures please?I like that you offer the value option for time investment - a lot of min/maxers often forget to optimize for that variable too haha. The game exist outside the spreadsheet sim
Thoughts on Flesh Hander's Gauntlets? (18 str, 17 agi, 27 stam, 18 exp)
y0 marrow, if you use the socket bonus on doomplate gauntlets, you exchange 8 hit (or crit) rating for 16 stam, and that's *without* the set bonus. so yea i'd say they better than GoA overall.
Primal nethers can drop from normal dungeons, I think it's around 10% and starts at Sethekk halls iirc.
For the ranged weapon section, you left out soulseeker and slavemaker
What is your opinion of Clefthoof Hide Leggings vs Skulkers Greaves? I have both of these items (as well as T4). My other gear is very good but I'm not expertise capped obviously. Which would you choose?
Its easier to access Karazan then having the Reputation for heroics. So i would not include heroic loot in raid pre bis
Considering Karazan gear is raid gear Im not sure it exactly counts as pre raid lol
Something needs to be mentioned about world boss loot is that it is now Bind on Equip, not pickup. So the shoulders and cloak from world bosses are actually accessible if you have deep pockets.
That's a good point. If I'm not mistaken, that change is only introduced later in the game (though I don't know which patch), but if it's in the game from launch it'll be incredibly important in shaping the gearing meta.
Nice video man, what would be 3 best items to grab before tbc in your opinion? Trinkets right?
HMM probably Slayer's Crest, Band of Unnatural Forces, Wristguards of Vengeance, and Shroud of Dominion (in no particular order). And Badge of the Swarmguard too.
I’m sure you’ve been asked this tons of times, but do you see warrior dps in tbc doing decent dps or falling way behind casters?
I don't think warriors will compete with locks/hunters (save on a few fights which are very favorable for warriors, like consistent cleave fights), but I also don't think they'll be as complete dogshit as some people make them out to be.
Love the video Marrow. What about the Dragonspine Trophy from Gruul's Lair for trinket? I noticed you added a few items from Gruul's Lair but not that.. any particular reason why?
Glad you liked the video! This video was just meant to show the first item in TBC you'd replace your P6 BiS with. I also didn't mention trinkets since that's another video in and of itself that I'm working on right now - I'll definitely mention DST then!
anyone knows hot to get the Overlord's Helm of Second Sight? visited the questgiver npv but has no quest for me, any prequest or something?
dont forget, if u play alliance, you are likely to have a shaman in your grp in raids, which is a draenei, which offers you 1% hit by racial, and you get 3% hit from boomkins, which means, you need 1% hit for a boss as an human warrior, which is kinda bonkers :D, would ve wished TF in the list, cuz due to fightclub discord, its only a bit weaker than gressil (ofc not considering the threat problem, but lets see how they nerf TF)
Awesome video, I like the options given, but obviously this has the potential to be completely different if we have patch 2.0? Shapeshifters gives dagger/feral skill right?
What is your source for the expertise/hit caps? I've seen slightly different numbers on different sites
Cheers
Hi Mitchell! Yep, you're right in that I'm mostly using the 2.4 itemization as a baseline. If I had to cover all the options across all the different patches, this video would be at least an hour long!
My source for the expertise and hit caps is the old Elitist Jerks DPS Warrior Compendium. Here's the link:
web.archive.org/web/20080625032704/elitistjerks.com:80/f31/t22705-dps_warrior_compendium/
go hammersmith and get drakefist hammer and thunder crafted ASAP
the dwarfs when should I hit?
For any Warrior, you need:
142 hit rating with 0 points in Precision
127 hit rating with 1 point in Precision
110 hit rating with 2 points in Precision
95 hit rating with 3 points in Precision
I’ve heard some talk of pvp 2h sword being an option - depending on how pvp rewards are rolled out. What’s your opinion on this?
Not sure if i missed it but if you go off the 2.4.3 preraid bis list, fury warr gets more from strength/crit than hit/expertise, but for arms hit/expertise/str are all equal. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X-XO9N1_MPIq-UIpTN13LrhXRoho9fe26YEEM48QmPk/edit#gid=1706013572 go to "EP Values" sheet for info
Hey, thanks for the link! I have my doubts about those stat weights, to be completely honest. If we've learned anything from the theorycraft done in Classic, it's that stat weights fluctuate wildly depending on your current gear setup. So I'm not sure a blanket statement like that is correct. Also, Fury would also benefit from hit more if anything, since increasing amounts of hit past 9% (148 hit rating) actually further increase their chance to hit due to the DW miss penalty, while Arms warriors will never miss past that hit threshold.
@@Marrow_WoW that is actually correct, if i learned anything watching rogue guides from hardcore tbc players is that as dual wield you strive for the hit cap, like waaay more than you do in classic right now, atm a good rogue hit is like 14-16%, in TBC people are talking like 20% +, also if anything arms warrior cares a tiny bit less about expertise than a fury one due to the fact that he runs improved overpower and he often has less rage than a fury warrior which makes the stance switching more viable if he times it just before a weapon swing so that the rage of that swing goes into the new stance so to speak
@@Marrow_WoW good points
@@HeavenShallBurn16 This might change in Classic TBC now that we know of the HS "bug" though. That hasn't been implemented in any of the TBC pservers that I know of.
@@Marrow_WoW that's a very good point, sad because bug but good point non the less, if you ask me hopefully blizzard will address it since it's gonna be out of the vanilla experience, rn their hands are probably tied in a sense that it existed for 1.5 year and it wouldn't really change all that much in terms of evening the play field so to speak, warrs would still be top dps with their always hitting off hands
so it isn´t a bad idea to do Naxx at 70?
Do it now.
It will be near impossible to get casters to do anything except current raids as they all will be working on their crafted cloth epics.
It's quite the gear path for TBC that doesn't allow people to do other things.
Grind out your ten arena, I believe 5 is better points per week.
You want arena points near cap untill you get your seasons 3 two pieces.
You want your bg honor near cap to get the other parts as well as discount season gear to fill in your sets.
It won't hurt you to have an epic survivability set that still has dps stats somewhere in the top 70% of optimization.
Health pools will come into play in the Lair an definitely the heroics will need expanded health pools for some bosses.
Idk how it went on pirate servers but in original TBC me an the boys before season three did lots of weird five man groups to beat an farm heroics.
Two heals groups.
We routinely used a messed up comp to farm one of the netherstorm heroics early on.
A lock is crazy good for heroics.
Warrior tank an rogue have amazing synergy with rogue lockdowns interupts.
Maybe some people will be able to keep up a naxx schedule at 70.
But I really don't see it happening.
Hey Marrow. My guild has an epgp system...do you think it worth snatching the band of unnatural forces or saving prio for MoM. If I am going to pvp tbc?
I think in terms of longevity, band of unnatural forces will be better - you'll only replace it with Kara rings, while you can replace MoM with Quantum Blade from H BM. If you're going strictly for PvP I guess you could make a case for MoM and which would allow you to jump straight into BGs/arenas without doing any dungeons, but I personally would just go for BUF and try and buy the mats for Thunder.
@@Marrow_WoW thanks!! Yea. It's been a tough call. I appreciate your knowledge and insight here. I'll be doing some combo of pve and pvp.
red gems will be insanly expensive on launch, 4 crit 4 str gems are an option, especially if ur lvling bs/lw/jc/ench or all 4 even
how much will drakfist manufacturing cost?
It'll vary from server to server but should be easily 2k gold or more more the first hammer.
arms are not better in tBC? for pve?
Arms is better for PvE than Fury in the sense that it actually provides an unique benefit to the raid in the form of Blood Frenzy (extra 4% physical damage done to the boss), but it'll do less individual DPS than Fury. The meta will likely be 1 prot 1 Arms until T6, when you can run 1 Arms 1 Prot and 1 Fury.
Yeah I see max 2-3 warrior per raid... 1 tank and maybe 1 dps.. There is just not room.. Maybe later patches where they get some haste items.
U only bring 2 tank and arms warrior furry warrior brings nothing to a raid
@@dusty_reaper96 naaah 1 tank maybe.
@@mn17foukos no u bring arms warrior for 4% pysical debuff
@@dusty_reaper96 according to the current meta in in private servers... Nahhh u don't.. Maybe sometimes yeah...but no
@@dusty_reaper96 An arms, Enchacmenr, prot Pala, combat rogue and tank warrior grp would make sence... So yeah u are correct on that maybe.. But again not a must have in my opinion
Yes make trinket vid
Working on it!!
If you don't use corrupted ashbringer in Karazhan, you are doing RP wrong.
yeah cloak of the fallen god is much better than shroud of dominion, shroud should really just go to pallies :)
I can't seem to come up with an argument against this. I think you win.
+3 stats btw
It's the cost effective option
Marrow, we are gonna be hiding this vid from our guildsso we can't yoink these. Sorry we can't share this one buddy.
REEEE
gud shit
Thanks man!
I love you
mucho texto