7 Terrible Mistakes Made By Wilhulff Tarkin
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2022
- Grand Moff Wilhulff Tarkin was one of the most powerful individuals in the entire empire. Tarkin had met Sheev Palpatine when he was still a lowly junior senator from Naboo, and would become one of Palpatine's closest advisors when he rose to power. The thing is , Wilhulf Tarkin's military career is actually full of huge mistakes and missteps. Why did palpatine keep him in a leadership position for so long?
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The one legends detail about Tarkin that always stuck with me was the time he landed his shuttle on top of a bunch of protestors. It perfectly portrays a man who is results driven and strong willed due to his disciplined approach, yet highly nonchalant and ignorant of public optics due to his arrogance.
Ah yes I remember that
He can be the face of Republic's cruelty in the Separatists' propaganda, Count.
@@lerneanlion Very easily
It wasn't a shuttle. It was his _Star Destroyer_ that he landed on the protesters. Palpatine _loved_ that.
Careful!!!! Ewoks on board can’t you see the sign on the back?- Tarkin at one point
Tarkin's unnecessary cruelty and eagerness to commit genocides eventually became the Empire's downfall. It was thanks to his arrogance thousands, if not more, Imperial citizens joined the Rebels out of fear of becoming his next victim. And even though good old Wilhuff was a wickedly smart tactician, he lacked experience in public relations and completely rejected any non-violent approaches that could have saved the Empire's resources and public image. Ugh, I really should have considered Thrawn as my Grand Moff, shouldn't I?
I'd imagine that Thrawn would still have done better in the fleet.
Thrawn is better off as military leader. He is results driven but happy to allocate praise for things his subordinates do. :-) Politics would be tiresome for him.
Oh that crazy Grandma Tuffkin...
Thrawn is an alien. There is no way Palpatine will allowed that.
@@baojhoang7242 explain Mas Amedda then?
Not even mentioning the destruction of Alderaan and the massive backlash the Empire suffered due to it? Tarkin really was the best rebel recruiter! Hundreds joined the rebels after every screwed up choice he made!
Who's gonna tell him?
@@bangerxshane2962 Can't really tell him now since he's space dust.
The irony is that it was also his decision to let the rebels escape the death star in episode 4 a new hope.
But it was at the advice of Darth Vader.
As tarkins line "Are you sure this was wise lord Vader I am taking an awful big risk for this" slightly exaggerated but he actually did say that in the movie.
Basically tarkin ordered all the troopers on the station to let the rebels escape but reduce their aim to avoid killing them.
But keep shooting at them to make them not realise that they were being let go on purpose as a tracking beacon was installed on the millennium falcon by one one the crews of stormtroopers while the gang was away from the ship.
It's kind of sad that George Lucas went this route because he made it seem like the stormtroopers were hyped up to be Elite or something.
As there were numerous times in the movie that stormtroopers were credited for being "Excellent Marksman" yet they never really expanded on that idea as George Lucas basically forgot he even did that in episode 4 and made them out to be a meme for the rest of the series.
The only times Stormtroopers nearly reached that expectation of being elite soldiers of the Empire was during episode 6 all though vaguely, as we of the heroes were hit or nearly hit every now and then.
And some of the games and other media usually depict them to be very accurate and intimidating.
Honestly though it is such a huge waste they even did this to begin with.
Even the emperor knew the mistake of alderran
@@zombiekillerr9764 It was Vader’s idea and decision to allow the Rebels to escape the Death Star.
Tarkin even told Vader that he was taking a big chance in letting the Rebels escape.
Sounds exactly like what Reva did in “Kenobi”, for which she received high praise from Vader.
Tarkin himself even admitted what he was doing to Leia. "You prefer another target? A military target? Then name the system!" If it's not a military target, it's a civilian target. You can't run an Empire when your citizens are afraid to die even if they follow your laws.
Sure you can. Just be so brutal and unrelenting, and have an effective network of internal intelligence and informants, that you're able to crush any dissent before a rebellion can start, and your citizens don't know who among their circle of friends and coworkers they can trust.
Otherwise, it's not feasible.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher Except that's flat out not sustainable and will only work short term.
the harder you push people with genocides and oppressive force, the harder they will push back.
You can have the best internal intelligence and group of informants possible, and you will still find rebellions will start. And eventually, people will grow disillusioned with your empire if you keep genociding their friends and family. Even if they initially work for you, they will eventually turn on you.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher For a real life example is North Korea.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher this is also not sustainable after so long…
I didn't say it wasn't a gamble. Or a good idea.
Honestly Tarkin in so many other militaries would have been laughing out of the room for how much is spent on interstellar mega structures.
Not to mention he killed the clone trooper program and made TIE fighters the mainstay of the Star fighter corps.
@@robertnelson9599 true. if they focused more on things like the tie interceptor or tie defender they would have fared better.
@@SimonBauer7 there's actually a story line in rebels where they work to sabotage just that way of thinking.
@@mesiagamer5217 yeah I’d it was t for kanon all there ships would’ve had heavy shields and hyperdrives rebels would have had 0 chance against the empire no ship could complete with those intercepters
@UA-cam Commenter It’d make sense
Krennic was playing a dangerous game with the leaking of the Death Star Plans as well as how close it was to being discovered by the senate
Legends I know, but worth pointing out I feel.
Darth Sidious HAD given permission for the Death Star to be used in its' worst possible way, but thought that either it would be on a relatively unknown world (which it was, on the prison world Despayre) or the threat of this thing literally shattering a planet into shards would be more than enough to put down many rebellions. He did NOT expect a well known and largely Imperial planet such as Alderaan to be the one destroyed, and was actually caught off guard by its' destruction when the Rebels caught the action on camera and broadcast it to the general populace. Immediately people saw that the Alliance was their best bet; the Empire had just shown that if they played ball they could be destroyed anyway. LOTS of systems ran to join the growing Rebellion, and many more dropped out of the Empire altogether. Ther exact number is uncertain, but presumably we are talking about hundreds of solar systems. Even if Tarkin had destroyed Yavin 4 and polarised the Rebellion, he was already a dead man.
Now I'm just imagining Palpatine trying to enjoy his evening tea while watching TV only to do a spit take once he sees Alderron blowing up on the news.
Palpatine: TARKINNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also Palpatine: wait he's dead already
Plus the Empire was very human-centric. If Tarkin had blown up some alien planet somewhere most of the core worlds wouldn't have given a kriff. However, Alderaan was predominantly human (except for an occasional Killik). And so Tarkin lost many potential Imperial loyalists by blowing it up.
@@dennismerced5785 not tea, Mountain Dewit
@@shaydowsith348 in legends at least the killik hadn't been on Alderaan for generations by the time the of the clone wars much less when it was destroyed. Not sure they've ever been cannonized.
While Tarkin was terrible, he also reflected exactly the kind of mentality that the Emperor wanted running day-to-day operations in the Empire. If Tarkin had never been born, someone similar - and likely to make the same or similar judgement calls - would have been selected.
So, yes, Tarkin was a major problem for the Empire. But only because the Emperor was running it into the ground.
The Force made a mistake letting Sheev even exist
Like BITE-ME REICH.
@@redjirachi1 One it corrected by conceiving Vader and setting a series of events that got him in a position to eventually get rid of him.
@@SolidusShadow29 It still made the mistake of letting him exist in the first place. It's not even a case of free will since Palpatine was born evil
@@redjirachi1 I suppose. Even the Force, a sentient energy field generated by life and is essentially God, can make mistakes. How much of the Darth Plagieus novel do you think is canon, given what you said about Palpatine being born evil.
It always confused me why they put a _governor_ in charge of a _military_ installation. I mean, I get that the Galactic Empire generally blurred the lines between civilian and military command structures, so "governor-general" might describe an Imperial Moff's role better than simply "planetary governor", but Tarkin is a prime example of why lumping civilian admin roles in with military leadership is usually a bad idea. They work differently on a fundamental level, and attempting to impose either on the other is a recipe for disaster.
Tarkin was give-no-fucks savage, which is probably why someone as terrifying as Palpatine liked him, but in practice, he was the worst of both worlds: too harsh and centralized for civilian leadership, and too grandstanding for military service.
Yeah how about instead of grand moth Tarkin in charge of now is the military installation it was one of the commanders from the republic judicial forces? In charge of the Death Star?
I totally agree, the entire idea of relying on a few regional governors to keep control over trillions of star systems was never going to work. You really see how much stock the empire put in the death star to essentially keep control for them. After it's destruction it was only a matter of time before the rebellion began to gain a major foothold throughout the galaxy.
This is why Thrawn's philosophy would've worked far better than Tarkin's.
Instead of relying on superweapons to control the galaxy, focus on building up the fleets, restructure the moff system, and rely more on diplomacy and understanding your enemy rather than just brute force.
You have it backwards. Tarkin was always a man of the military.
During the Clone Wars he was captain, who was eventually promoted to admiral.
Tarkin was a military man turn politician, which is a common practice for authoritarian regimes like the Empire.
@@thesharpercoder true but maybe not Grand Moff material.
tarkin was more like the imperial clown
After seeing Alderaan in the Kenobi series, it's destruction hurts even more. It's not a wonder that massive amounts of Alderaanians defected. If your home planet was destroyed, you would defect to take out the force that did it, too.
Really, the only mystery is people who _didn't_ defect after Alderaan.
Who in their right mind aligns with a state that proves itself willing to destroy innocent, pacifistic planets just to make a point?
Its even funnier in the Lego Star Wars Complete Saga game where moments before the DS1 blows up Tarkin realizes his mistake and goes, "welp fuck" with his facial expression.
Tarkin's greatest weakness was his imagination. He all too frequently would daydream about brutalizing his subordinate officers. A cautionary tale to keep your eye on the ball.
Lol true
@@GenerationTech woot woot... credit from the creator... "thank the maker" indeed
@@GenerationTech remember when Tarkin imagined himself beating his subordinates or showing his scars to them after their hesitation to test fire the Death Star's mega laser?
Especially the literal ball (the death star)
One consistency between multiple authors, and most recently highlighted by Timothy Zahn in his Thrawn books, is the fact that imperial military culture and governmental culture was incredibly competitive, and cannibalistic. There was no reward for superior performance, there was only the terror that somebody else would be intimidated by you and try to engineer your death.
Which backfires horribly when you need competent or flexible officers who are willing to use differ methods to achieve the same results. “Why negotiate when you can obliterate?” Gee I don’t know, perhaps there was information about insurgents that you just silence? Potential allies you just aliened (no pun intended). Valuable resources that could’ve help you win the war but now have no idea how to extract efficiently? And my personal favorite - you just sent another message to the galaxy that you can’t be reasoned with and therefore any military campaigns in that world will drag on so long and be so destructive that the only thing saved from the ashes is the commander’s pride.
@@Historyandlegends789 when the punishment for anything error is death,might as well go the full nine yards and go full rebellion
"There was no reward for superior performance"
Grand Admiral Thrawn being an exception, of course.
@@seanreynolds7369 One of the major themes in _Tyranny,_ an RPG where your character serves a dark lord and, by having the temerity to be both effective at following orders and surviving doing so, you inevitably end up leading a rebellion against your boss.
@@jamesgravil9162 That's why he should have been in charge of Death Star 1. He would never have ordered to destroy Alderaan.
Tarkin was defeating by his own arrogance and hubris. He felt that any damages or loss of imperial assets were collateral damage if his mission/goal was achieved. But it failed, he had plenty of subordinates is key management position to put the blame on.
Another thing about Tarkin. He did not like or trust Darth Vader or any force wielders. He kept them around to use as scapegoats in to event of bad fortunes. He always kept an escape plan ready.
He's a great example why ruling by only fear is not enough; it'll develop into hatred and will likely end in your destruction.
It also does not work for a military, at least if you focus so much on fear that it prevents the military from being effective.
"Get outta here Tarkin!" "Seriously, gtfo!"
It worked out during the death star ( sarcasm)
I heard there was a book that detailed that he did realize the Death Star's core had been hit and it seemed like he stayed. I think at that point he decided he would rather die than swallow his pride and face punishment. It's no surprise as Palpatine tortured a lot of people who he blamed for the Death Star's destruction. At that point, death was his only "escape".
"I say we nuke that three man rebel team from orbit, Just to be sure"
Tarkin, probably
He forgot that the installation (Death Star 1) had a substantial dollar value attached to it.
The Shinra Corporation would've loved this man
Why this man never stopped and considered that using the Death Star to destroy one of the cultural hearts of the Galaxy would turn even some of the most loyal citizens of the Empire, I will never know. It just proved that the Empire would kill anyone.
Of course he didn't. In Tarkin''s mindset destroying Alderaan would show the galaxy that nobody was above Imperial retribution. He thought it would increase fear in the galaxy. He was wrong as the annihilation of Alderaan - one of the most well regarded and beautiful worlds in the galaxy - just sent of wave of shock and grief across the galaxy. Grief that then turned into anger and a desire for retribution against the Empire for this crime.
An in that said proving he made the Empire look like what it was better then ANY an a whole intergalactic and interspecies Espionage effort chock full of the absolutely greatest assassin's/spies EVER could've. Over the course of his Imperial career he probably was singularly responsible for giving the Early to Mid stage Rebels whole fleets an armies of some of their most vengeful or least motivated forces
The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers. -Leia Organa
@@AndrewJamesWilliams Kind of like what Japan did at Pearl Harbor in WW2.
@@lucasadams5042 not really in my opinion. Especially since Pearl Harbour was actually a military target, Alderaan wasn't
Note: Tarkin caught eye - and sympathy,. of the Sith sort - of Palpatine because his "fear doctrine" meshed so well with Sith tenets. Fear is powerful emotion associated with the sources of the dark side of the force, and Tarkin believed that executing few perceived enemies will keep others in line. He was of course mistaken, because such ruthless strikes helped fuel righeous anger of the Rebels, therefore creating actually more enemies, and more motivated ones at that.
In short, Tarkin was the guy who reads the 'It's better to be feared than loved' chapter of The Prince but opts to just ignore everything else but that singular line because he's a dumbass.
And ironically, rage is another emotion dear to the siths... Palpatine completely shot himself in the foot
Fear leads to anger after all.
If the Death Star wasn’t destroyed the empire could’ve kept hold of its power and snuff out the rebellion. Fear attics used by the empire where working but a moment of weakness like the destruction of the Death Star showed it vulnerability. In my opinion if the empire won the battle of Yavin the empire would still be around.
Fear is a very dangerous means of control, as, humanity is in extreme driven by a flee or fight instinct, and if you create the terror ti intimidate, leaving no perceived avenue of escape, it will always end in a fight to the death...
Tarkin is an example of what happens when you follow Sith-style values of needless cruelty and arrogance, but don’t have supernatural powers to get real benefit from it.
@ThePartisanAlliancesure influence can be felt prior to him but Tarkin is more than just influenced, he feels just as sith as any sith officer in the Old Republic.
I think that Tarkin's experiences on the Carrion Spike shaped his mind to think that basically every person is a wild beast that needs to be controlled through terror. However he never realised that when faced with terror humans can bow down in fear but some strike back.
Tarkin, “This battle station is the dominant power in the galaxy!”
Galen Erso, “Well, revenge is a dish best served proton hot.”
Palpatine: So which planet did you test the Death Star on?
Tarkin: Alderaan!
Palpatine: YOU WHAT!?!?
Imagine if Leia said the Rebels are on Coruscant.
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 I’d love to see that play out lol.
I think Palpatine would immediately kill Tarkin right then and there.
@@someguy9070 I agree, Palpatine didn't trust Tarkin blindly, he likely has an agent or two in Tarkin's inner circle with orders to kill him if he stepped out of line.
Also Tarkin after blows up one planet: I did it! It solves the uneployment problems!
Machiavelli often said it was It is better to be feared than to be loved, if one cannot be both. However what a lot of people leave out is that it is always disastrous when one becomes hated. Hate supersedes fear, creates martyrs and inspires rebellion. When people fear you but don't respect you, you become an existential threat to their well being and bring no contentedness, and so they are willing to sacrifice everything to remove you as they would any other force.
Machiavelli was also an unabashed republican sooooo... I think he would find the Empire to be quite distasteful.
Machiavelli also understood that someone living by the precepts of _The Prince_ was a bastard playing with fire.
Tarkins weakness was his lack of flexibility, the belief that strength and force is all that was needed.
The apparent inability to consider that he could possibly be wrong didn't help either.
@@aaronbates4848 betraying and throwing away anyone who he no longer saw use for as well.
@@samuelfawell9159 👍
This is what made Thrawn vastly superior. He was malleable.
The Empire didn't commit to the Tarkin Doctrine right. They designed based on it, but then they didn't use those designs optimally. The system of "Iron fist in velvet glove" would have suited them well, but too often they refused to use the iron fist where it should have been, and overused it other places when a softer touch would have served their ends better.
Example: The Death Star should have been used thus: Escorted by a large blockading fleet and several Interdictors, it would arrive at a planet, the fleet would blockade it, and an ultimatum would be delivered: "We know there are rebels and insurrectionists here. To those of you who wish to prove your loyalty to the Empire, you have one week to bring all of them to us. If you refuse, or if you refuse to submit to the Empire, we will be forced to destroy this planet and end this threat to the safety of Imperial citizens throughout the galaxy."
Then, either the prison ship is filled up with rebels turned in by their own neighbors who care more about their friends and family surviving than about politics, or not enough rebels are handed over, and the planet is destroyed. If the planet complies, but one or two cities refuse, a low-power blast sufficient to atomize the offending city alone will suffice. The climate consequences of the bombardment will be a warning to the other population centers to heed the word of the Empire. Don't make threats, make promises. Use the people's own fear and desperation to turn them against the Rebels, whose presence threatens them all. When wielded properly, that fear would make worlds police themselves. Used clumsily, it only causes more uprisings.
.
With regards to the soft power or 'velvet glove' that the Empire seems to have neglected, even as an autocracy they needed to build a reputation of being stern but fair if they were to gain real loyalty throughout the galaxy. Instead they ended up casting themselves as draconian and vindictive, responding with overwhelming measures when they weren't called for.
.
The problem was, basically, they needed to appear unassailable while remaining aware of (and protecting against) the flaws and weaknesses present. Instead the commanding officers began to actually believe that Imperial power was impervious and scoff at flaws or weaknesses, and that headstrong behavior cost them the war.
When the local government doesn't know who the rebels are they will turn over random citizens in their place.
Oddly enough the Iron Fist in the Velvet glove could be seen in the old Sith Empire during the Republic and Sith Empire Cold War. The Sith knew fighting to a military standstill would just deplete their military numbers just as quickly as the Republics so they started with other methods. Blackmail, assignation, bribery and good ole propaganda. It would have been far quicker for the Empire to eliminate the Organa royal family (oddly enough the old Sith Empire did try to do this and was failed.) and install a branch family member.
Tarkin wasted military assets and resources. How many Star Destroyers could have been built out of 1 Death Star, how about bribing every minor government from the Midrim to the Outer Rim. You wouldnt need to even rule by fear, apathy is often a better substitute. Fear often leads to motivation to those who have courage, while those who are apathetic do not care about others but themselves. Selfishness a key vice would have kept the Empire safe as the secret police rooted out those who were against them.
People would still protest when threatened with the death of their entire planet. The planet’s government will rebel against the empire and all the other planets will see that destruction of the planet and decide to rebel because either way, they will be martyrs because nothing will justify blowing up an entire planet.
Smart
I REALLY like this comment. So well spoken (or typed, really) and proper. There should be a split timeline in Star Wars where the Empire actually utilizes the Death Star properly. There would be no Rebellion....at least not for long as you so eloquently put it.
Long after the movies writers of the expanded universe were trying to rationalize all the cool looking but impractical stuff the Empire had.
Someone came up with the Tarkin Doctrine, inspiring fear over effectiveness, and with that retcon pretty much all of it gets blamed on him.
Palpatine still listened to Tarkin, so he is also at fault.
tbh if you actually read what Tarkin Doctrine says it kinda makes sense to me
@goodmind still lost tho
@@goodmind4940 i think it makes sense from a character perspective, you can see why tarkin follows the doctrine. The problem is that it's flawed and Tarkin and palpatine were both too arrogant to see it
In Legends, in the Book of Sith, Palpatine actually acknowledged this, but he thought he could use this well. He didn't.
As Vader told him, "the power of this technological terror you've created pales into insignificance compared to the power of the force...."
Why didn't Tarkin at least listen to Vader?
He was a fool to put all his faith in the Death Star....compared to Thrawn's considered approach, he seems like a rank amateur.
Fascinating video, as always Alan....
It was Motti Vader was talking to. Not Tarkin
@@knightmare5097 the death star was fully supported by tarkin though, instead of thrawn's tie defender project
@@ThatGuy-tx4vm Which was one of his greatest mistakes
@@knightmare5097 Tarkin was still in the room
@@ThatGuy-tx4vmthey both opposed in terms of doctrine and use
The death star could be used to both quell rebellion and win wars while the tie defender was just a better starfighter something the empire already had tons of but of lesser quality (Tie Fighter) and quite honestly it's easy to see why thrawns got thrown out
This reminds me of a Tarkin quote from Rebels where he says to Kanan "You do not know what it takes to win a war, but I do." I always took this to mean Tarkin was crediting himself with winning the Clone Wars for the Republic, which is massively arrogant of him and also indicates to me that Tarkin believed his own hype too much, which led to him viewing his actions and judgement as infalable.
In case it wasn't obvious already, I seriously HATE Tarkin as a character, he's everything wrong with Imperial Officers rolled into one person.
Also his power plays would be a terrible influence for the Officer corps as he would engage in stupid power plays with other officers.
And i love Tarkin as a character and im sick of this unreflected bashing he was palpatines left hand for a reason a notion that is often forgotten. this staunch pragmatic man shouldered the entire imperial war machine and coordianted its resources while keeping the galaxy in check for the longest time and i hate the fact that we only talk about his rare miscalculations.
He also despised boot lickers and yapping career officers as seen with director krennic, the real reason the death star was aquired was cause he didn't want some "daddy emperor notice me" running the show.
The qoute to kanan? Justified 100% he knows what it takes and payed his due dilligence to the effort, his mission resume doesn't lie, born into a piss poor family and worked his way to the most important position in the empire right under palpatines nose.
that is no coincidence.
(And peter cushing is an awesome actor)
Tarkin's biggest mistake was not having enough plot armour
Spot on
The actor who was playing Tarkin was wearing slippers during filming, he didn't like the boots. That's why you rarely or never see his feet
Because he has "big feet". Peter Cushing was a 10/10 actor and person. Super classy, very polite. Great guy. So, he asked them if they could shoot him from the waist up, so that he could walk about in slippers more oft than not.
To sum up the Empire's failings in a nutshell: Blame everything on Tarkin.
HONESTLY? Largely, yes.
Him and palpatine were directly responsible for it's downfall. Even if neither of them had been killed, and the rebel alliance would not have popped up, it would have absolutely collapsed on itself.
When the Archives on Scarif destroyed along with all information related to the Empire's projects, where the heck did the Empire find the copy of the blueprint to construct the second Death Star?
I would assume there was more than one copy of the plans- probably somewhere near the construction planet + at military headquarters on Courocant
Scariff was likely just one archive location. The emperor for instance had several imperial archives stashed around the galaxy.
It was in the cloud. ☁️
Palpatine had the copy remember Dooku gave it to him at the end of Attack of the Clones.
shame Scarif destroyed the newly imperial tactic of actually taking cover which was forever lost in star wars
tarkin's overconfidence led the rebels to victory
The mistakes Tarkin made at Yavin come from multiple angles and aren't just made from incompetence.
Though that does play a factor, as shown in not providing a fighter screen... but not for the reasons limited to the possibility of an ambush. For in looking through the events leading up to the Battle of Scariff there was already a lot of warning signs that someone on the Death Star project was dissatisfied with the Empire and might be sabotaging it. It's what sets up much of the whole events of that battle in which Death Star was sabotaged in construction in a way that would all but assure its destruction and this included clues for the Rebellion to find the plans. And by the time Tarkin arrives at Scariff, he had to have been informed that orders he'd given had failed to prevent the plans from being stolen from the Imperial base there and thus setting up what hangs over the Empire going into the Battle of Yavin.
For Leia never reveals where the plans were, and the Empire never catches R2D2 after Alderaan's destruction. Thus, as he enters the system with the Death Star, he should have been aware that the plans were unrecovered and that those plans likely did have a weakness given the suspicion that the designer, Erso, was NOT supportive of the Empire. And this is the section that would relate to "incompetence." For with the plans unrecovered and one of the Death Star's designers having questionable loyalty, that should raise a lot of base concern, given how long it had been sine the Battle of Scariff.
The real thing that hit him at Yavin was arrogance, and something that not even the mistakes at Scariff and after could shake. For when Tarkin is warned of the danger, the warning isn't about protecting the Death Star, but Tarkin, himself. The man warns him, "we've analyzed their attack sir, and there is a danger, shall I have your ship standing by?" In this, they had to have been going over the Death Star with scanners to try and map out the station, and likely noted the exhaust port and the potential risk posed there. Which would be an impressive engineering feat, given what had happened on Scariff. But Tarkin's response is, "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances." That is arrogance in feeling that nothing can hurt him and acting as though nothing can hurt him... which can be dumb, given prior events... but one may argue that Tarkin had had an arrogance streak that went a long way and likely created some of the fights with other Imperial leaders.
Tarkin's view on the military early on (particularly during his time commanding the ORSF) was a good one if a bit authoritarian, but after he met Palpatine someone who just poured more gas onto the fire in regards to how harshly he should command he became less and less of a simple officer who wanted results and instead became someone who wanted results no matter what while a festering paranoia continued to eat away at him. He really went over the edge following the death of his son and fellow officer, for Palpatine just used it as more gas on the fire to make Tarkin his iron fist that he could use on anyone that was solely motivated by two things revenge and an overly strong belief in authority.
Tarkin: Overvalued by Palpatine.
Tagge and especially Thrawn would have been far more effective.
Thrawn is best, try and change my mind
@UA-cam Commenter Of course he did, can't risk a competent imperial becoming a rival like Thrawn did.
Tarkin, like Palpatine, is a great example of a character who isn't nearly as smart as they think they are.
Both were plenty smart, it's just that making smart decisions would've required admitting even once that they might be wrong. Their way or the highway.
They’re smart but they’re so arrogant that they think that people will simply do as their told without any sense of free thought. Not just brute force but overwhelming cruelty doesn’t last forever because now you’ve made your allies nervous. Nervous allies mean less loyalty then you start prioritizing loyalty over competence.
It was their ego rather than a lack of intelligence that was the problem
Both are smart. Neither are "Lead an entire galaxy into a new era" smart. Palps was a political mastermind, excellent manipulator, and a powerful Sith Lord. He is not a leader, he's a manipulator. Once he'd succeeded, he was like a dog that caught a car. He doesn't know what to do with it, so he just starts... Doing shit to see what works.
Same with Tarkin. He's a ruthless low-level goon. Maybe a captain, at best. Bring him up any higher, and he just causes all sorts of problems.
@@MrJinglejanglejingle I like this analogy of the dog with a car, and I think it works for the sith overall - pursuit of power but in the end all they know what to do with it when they get it is be a collosal dick. Look at "I want to save my wife and outlaw slavery" Anakin or "let's eradicate corruption" Dooku. Once they have the power to bring about change they are so transformed they do the opposite
Scrolling down the comments, I see that no one mentioned that the "child endangerment" (as was put in the video) was actually based on a real life Native American tradition. IIRC, and my memory could be failing me here, but it was called "Ta-Ne-Ka", where a puberty aged child was given a small weapon, and had to survive on their own for a week. If they managed it, they had earned "adulthood". It was a right of passage, that, if I'm honest, has existed in some form or another for centuries. Even now, young adults have to face a "right of passage", it's just not as life threatening these days.
Yes....and no. Many tribal cultures do have some sort of 'surivive for a week' - what is sometimes left out, is that by then, the child has been extensive training and mentorship in surviving the wild - the child is expected to have learned what to do and what not to do. The 'rite of passage' is as much a test of the mentor, as it is the child - and I think any tribe would look askance at a mentor who routinely sics their trainee onto the nearest dominant predator.
Rite of passage.
Right of passage is for ships.
It's also not child endangerment, because it's a fictional ritual that Mary Whitebird made up for her book and passed off as a real Kaw ritual. There was a lot of that going on thanks to the romanticization of the Native Americans and basic white bitches being basic white bitches.
Palpatine had a habit recruiting people who were similar but never better then him in any way which only lead to power hungry types managing things and in turn lead to more infighting and hamstringing. The Empire was better overall in securing things but that's because Palpatine kept antagonizing the hornets nest to create a catastrophe to take advantage of. Palpatine is classic example of how good governance is about balancing multiple perspectives and keeping people of opposing views on board and on plan rather than surrounding yourself with people of similar mindset. For Someone who followed the rule of 2, he sure knew how to recreate the faults of the Old Sith Orders. People like Tarkin have their uses but like MacArthur and Patton they need limits placed upon them to insure that they don't shoot themselves or others in the foot.
I agree: looking at trump/trumpism
I would love to see a What-If of sorts about how much difference would be in the Empire without Tarkin's presence. Including back into the Clone Wars where his incompetence started to show. How his not being present on Kamino would change that outcome and many more. Just a thought
actually the death star can fire immediately, it didn't because the gas giant was blocking its line of sight since the rebel base was on a moon and not a planet. the death star 2 has no problem firing on the rebel fleet immediately.
plus firing on a gas giant could have explosive results...
The question is, how long would it take to recharge from a planet destroying shot as opposed to a shot just powerful enough to destroy a starship, you wouldn't need all the reactors for the later.
Anyone else notice that they did a double-Death Star run in 'Top Gun: Maverick'?
Not only did they have to hit the vent, they had to do it twice (first to clear the vent cover and again to hit the refinery beneath), and on the second run Rooster didn't have a targeting computer, so he made the shot without it.
The tarkin doctrine I feel was tarkins worse idea ever with them creating soldiers, vehicles and starship that were designed not to be be practical weapons of war but ineffective weapons of terror. It was that doctrine that made the empire lose what won the clone wars and saw decommissioning of great ships like the Venator class starship or the LAAT Gunship. Even the loss of the clones was moronic. Personally they should of kept the clones and only changed the advance aging of the clones so they are around longer. Also since palpatine had control of both sides of the war he should of nitpicked on both sides which assets were effective. Like clones. Laat gunship. Droideka. Droid commandos etc. The empire would of been unstoppable if they did that especially if they used the venator as more of a fighter carrier/ support ship. That one ship could erased the need for like 4 other ships the empire uses like the quasar and gorzanti class ships. There was never a need a for the death star when literally a star destroyer just orbital bombardment on the planet would of gotten the same point across. Minus the wasted destruction of a life supporting and resources on a planet
Basically the same ideas Thrawn had. Increase the fleet, not build a death-star.
Just a thing about the Droids though. The Clone Wars manifested a massive phobia of droids with any military might. While the empire hates the Jedi, they hate the droids even more thanks to the Clone Wars.
Even people loyal to Palpatine would turn against him if he did that
@@supersani21 um it's the empire they rule through fear and blind loyalty.
@@dragonhatcher12 That was built on Palpatine guaranteeing security from something like the Droid Army
@@supersani21 they weren't using fear of droids to keep people loyal to the empire they uses the people's fear of what the empire will do to them if step out of line. Hence why the tarkin doctrine was created and why they focused on weapons of terror, more then weapons of war. The death star was the epitome, during the meetings of the Moffs on the death star tarki. Clearly explains this when he reveals the senate had been dissolved and that fear will keep the populace in line. Then he adds fear of this battle station. It had nothing to do with droids. Which the empire still used a lot of. Just look at the Night of a Thousand Tears when we see hundreds of Imperial droids being used to kill any surviving mandalorians
That's all well and good, but I think it's worth remembering the absolute legend Peter Cushing was. In fact, Carrie Fisher found it difficult to act hostile towards him during the Alderaan scene because, off-camera, Cushing was the most charming and delightful guy in the room. And, not only that, he actually smelled pleasantly of lavender on set.
She recognized his foul stench the minute she boarded the Death Star. 😉
It’s ironic how Tarkin hated incompetence yet he was one of, if not, THE most incompetent imperial officer the Empire ever had!
It's amazing to see how Tarkin became a monster in canon and legends!
In Legends, we see Darth Vader and Palpatine scheming to make Tarkin a ruthless killer by killing his son. Ultimately the death of Garoche Tarkin turned Wilhuff evil!
In Canon, Tarkin was trained to be ruthless from a young age!
Both Continuities are both amazing at explaining Tarkin's Journey 👍🏻
As a big fan of Wilhuff Tarkin (and Peter Cushing) I feel like he was just another victim of bad, non-George Lucas writing. Original Episode IV Tarkin is cunning, ruthless, and efficient. He’s no cocky barbarian as later media make him out to be. You don’t become a Grand Moff by overconfidence and senseless brutality (just enough brutality to get the job done). Militarily, the Death Star was a waste of resources, but it was not his project from the start, it was Palpatine’s. Tarkin just put it to use, and even then certainly under Palpatine’s approval. Tarkin’s death isn’t so much from arrogance or miscalculation, not of underestimating the Rebels’ chances, but that the improbable came true through a combination of a built-in flaw, failure by Vader to capture the plans, failure by Vader to shoot the one last X-wing that had a chance to destroy the Death Star (I love Vader, too, but he seems to have failed as often as he succeeded at everything), and a pilot guided by the Force. Basically, Tarkin took what seemed like an extremely small risk as he was on the verge of destroying the Rebel base (and perhaps the Rebellion). You take a risk every time you go outdoors that you might get hit by lightning, run over by a speeder, or abducted by space whales. Roll the dice enough times and eventually you hit snake eyes.
I fail to see what was so cunning about Tarkin in Episode IV. Moments before the destruction of Alderaan he asked Leia where the base was. She gave him an abandoned base and he never bothered to fact check or do basic reconnaissance on the information before he proceeded. A commander that charges headlong into battle without knowing all the information they need is destined to lose.
@@George-Hawthorne But… but… he had that that cunning-sounding accent. “Charming to the last.” Umm… yeah. But, um, he did let the Millennium Falcon escape and followed it to the Rebel base. A pretty grand moffy move there, eh?
@@onliwankannoli Of course he had a cunning sounding accent, he's a Brit also It's Peter Cushing. Besides wasn't letting the Falcon go Vader's idea. Tarkin even told Vader, "This had better work."
@@George-Hawthorne But… but… but… don’t be too proud of this logical terror you’ve created. The ability to destroy my flimsy arguments is insignificant next to the power of the Cushing.
*yes, I see the irony of quoting Vader to defend Tarkin.
@@onliwankannoli Two words- Horror Express.
I watch and piece together stuff from various Star Wars productions, but never in a million would ever glean the info on Moff Tarkin that you laid out. It all makes perfect sense. You, my friend, added a whole new clarity to the Star Wars saga. As in all your episodes! You're a freaking genius !
I liked the legends story where Vader killed Tarkin's son and framed it on the rebels really explaining his cruelty.
In a way they were since Tarkin's son had defected.
Tarkin was the best recruiter the rebellion ever had
Wasn’t it Tarkin who shut down Grand Admiral Thrawn’s tie defender project?
No the project was halted indefinitely due to the destruction of the lothal factories fuel depot along with the disappearance of thrawn, hence funding was shifted away from the project to krennics stardust project though tarkin stated he fully intended to resume the tie defender project when the death star was completed
you know that big rubber thing written on it:"for big mistakes"? that one Was created as a weapon against tarkin
As you highlighted Tarkin’s main weakness was the inability to think like a normal person. He was a genius military tactician but that was also his biggest flaw as that was pretty much the only thing he could do, he sought only to conquer regardless of the consequences and repercussions that might come with it, and it showed with the way he treated his officers and general forces. Thrawn was much more well rounded and level headed which made him a much more effective tool for the empire.
I’ve always believed that Tarkin was the bane that symbolizes everything that was wrong with the Empire.
Gonna sound weird but your videos literally help me with my depression like I feel like I'm always trying to escape myself and escape the possibility of doing something stupid and you help that happen you and star wars it helps me escape my own life and dive into another one
Thanks for the intel. A useful and interesting lecture as usual. Thank you.
i love how when Tarkin and the Kaminoan in charge of the clone program were conversing about how the kaminoans were supposed to get paid tarkin was just like "yeah the republic doesn't exist anymore, so you're not getting a dime from the empire"
Great vid Gentech, I highly enjoy your content.
Tarkin was actually a Rebel soy under very deep cover. So deep was his cover that not even Leia Organa knew the truth. Why else would someone that presumably competent be so incompetent in reality? Every atrocity he committed was a calculated step toward aiding the rebellion. This resulted in him ultimately giving his life in order to allow the rebels to destroy the Death Star.
The Soviet generals did so bad during Operation Barbarossa that Stalin thought they were working for the Germans.
Al love your podcasts very informative and entertaining
I still kind of don’t understand how they kind of said they don’t need soldiers anymore they need security and immediate have such distrust for clones
Too expensive
They aren't fighting a war, their main risk is not external threat but internal dissent. Hence security over soldiers.
The clones had all been forced to obey because of their chips not loyalty. We see that unchipped clones are not loyal.
If anyone ever found a way to mass disable the chips (emp?) they could have a lot of heavily armoured angry clones on their hands.
Hey, forgot about Tarkin using Ackbar for his personal pilot-slave. Ackbar learned a great deal about Imperial tactics and doctrine that way, and used them to great effect once he joined up with the Rebels.
Thanks for doing a video highlighting Tarkin’s character flaws, short-sightedness and failures in Canon. Would be good to do a Legends follow up video as well.
I don't think I'll ever understand the new canon's logic that the MC80 was an office building.
Retrofitting a ship into a warship makes sense. Turning a building into a spaceship is *facepalm*
Well say what you will about Tarkin, but the Empire (and Palps) also was more than once able to see the potential in people who in the Old Republic hardly would have risen so fast and far. Look at Thrawn or Sloane. It were people like Sloane who were vital for the survival of the Empire at least for some time.
And it was Tarkin who supported Daala - who may be not a good commander, but she was herself instrumental in ending the Imperial Civil War in Legends, preparing the way for people like Pellaeon who made sure that the Imperial idea would survive.
So while I agree with the list of Tarkins mistakes, it may be that the view of him as a complete failure or of Palps always choosing the wrong people is not really correct.
Content been fire recently!🔥
Great video!
Sidous? Lightning rod.
Vader? Lightning.
Tarkin? A farm boy.
Thrawn? The only person on this list who scares me
An excellent editing job.
Allen , I love your videos , and always leave a like !!!
Imagine just that... Put Thrawn into the pisition of Tarkin. That woud be a big blow to the Rebels.
I’d give them a year, tops
@@Jungoguy You give him a year, i give him 6 months.
He does it in 5 month's :D
@@VirusXAX My father disagrees! He thinks they wouldn’t last 5!
@@aarushlal3702 Thrawns approach woud be that something like the Deathstar woud be not in Produktion and the Resources woud be spend to get more ISD's and better star ships like the Tie Defender, wich was vital for the whole Imperial Navy.
Thrawns Tactical understanding was extremly good and he could've won nearly every fight.
Plus he is not an Incompetent.
On the Opposite.
Tarkin was not even a good Officer he is just Incompetent and his tactical understanding is very Lacklaster. He are not even Understands normal Humans. His opinion leads to the Deathstar Produktion and the Deathstar was the key factor to leads to the whole Rebelion that are under Mon Mothma. Only the Deathstar Blow to Alderan was vital for the Rebels to fight against the Empire against all odds.
I always liked this character from the first movie, and I'm happy to see all the ways he's been incorporated into other stories
Looking back through this, it finally hits me how much Tarkin resembles in personality and approach and methods of failure Cushing's other iconic character, the Hammer Films version of Dr. Frankenstein. The absolute ruthless approach, the faux-affability, the seizure of that which was not his, the disposability of all about him. I almost feel later writers in fleshing Tarkin out turned to his portrayal of Dr. Frankenstein as template and inspiration.
Yeah Tarkin had made many mistakes. Great video
Superb video.
Tarkin it's just like me when i play strategy games. Big weapons, big resources, big armies, win.
Tarkin was at the end of the day was a mad war dog. If he was a general he may have had better luck with his career in the empire but sadly/thankfully he was not. Tarkin is a great example of what happens when you give the attack dog more power then it need.
How people think palpatines inner circle hierarchy goes:
Palpatine
Vader
Tarkin/thrawn
Vs how it actually goes
Palpatine
Tarkin
Vader
Thrawn
One day I would like to hear the Outtro be, my allegiance is to Generation Tech, to Allen.
So what this video is saying is Tarkin was the key to it all.
Could have saved the Death Star if he just did 1 thing. Porg layers: have layers of porgs on the Death Star as porg-ium armour. Power down most station systems during the attack fill the exhaust port with porgs. Everyone knows proton torpedos are weak to porgs n thus wouldn’t have gotten into the reactor. Additionally the station wasn’t crewed by porgs. So clearly with more porgs the emporg would have porg instead of porg like they porged.
Brilliant. Absolutely porgers.
This reminds me about all the videos where they point out all he imperial navy flaws and its just like: "Tarkin said this so this super useful ship is no longer in service." or "Tarkin decided that larger ships was more scary so this smaller but more useful navy ship has been scrapped."
In light of Andor season 1, I would say many of Tarkin’s actions were more in line with what imperial tactics were like at the time.
you got a point even Alex from Star Wars Explained stated this Im subscribed to him as well
Just wanted you to know I had to resubscribe to your channel because for some reason I was unsubscribed. Love your channel bro
One more mistake I think you missed is in Star Wars rebels at the end of season 3 when Tarkin spoke with Thrawn about the rebels’ plan to attack the tie defender factory on Lothal. Thrawn wanted to ruin the rebels’ plan of attack by turning it into their absolute defeat, but Tarkin wanted Thrawn to capture them instead. Tarkin should have allowed Thrawn to go ahead and destroy the 2 full rebel branches
Tycho Celchu
A native of Alderaan, he joined the Imperial Navy as a TIE Fighter pilot. He was speaking with his family by HoloNet when Alderaan was destroyed by the first Death Star, an event which pushed him into defecting to the Rebel Alliance. Celchu quickly became an ace pilot with the elite Rogue Squadron.
Oops
another thing is the tarkin doctrine is why so much of the imperial's gear and ships were so poorly designed and cheap.
the tie fighters were designed to be fast and manuverable but they were also load, had terrible sight lines and little to no protection for the pilot, this was so they could be mass produced but resulted in so many imperial pilot deaths, wasting the pilots intensive training.
its also why the AT-AT is so unweldly and excessively tall, to inspire fear in its enemies instead of being effective.
the same goes for stormtrooper armor being cheap, as well as the the demoralizing aspected meant to keep them in line, such as observation equipment and prohitting them from taking off their helmets. the later meant to inspire fear from the sight of faceless stormtroopers
wow dude. I'm just..blown away. I missed SO MUCH!
I wonder what would've happen if Thrawn was in Tarkins' role, would the Empire have a spine more structurally stable than a wet noodle or will it still collapse because of the Emperors lack of sanity?
The Empire would still collapse but not nearly as quickly.
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 Yeah, that's true, Palputine's the biggest liability in the entire galactic state that is "The Empire".
@@tommyfox854 "Ironic" (in Ian McDiarmid's voice)
@@jamesbellefeuille2926 Yeah, it is a bit ironic that Palp's the biggest problem for The Empire even though he's the one who created it in the first place.
In retrospect, I’m shocked Vader didn’t actually agree with his daughter (unknowingly) and call Tarkin out in the Death Star’s control room. Alderaan was publicly loyal to the Empire, was not yet universally known as a Rebel sympathizer hotspot or haven, and still held political sway shortly before the full dissolution of the Galactic Senate. Vader saying nothing and making himself complicit in such a historically important planet being wiped off the charts probably still got him punished beyond what any other mortal could endure. Even if Vader went to tell Palpatine right after Alderaan was destroyed, the only reason Tarkin should have been alive was because the Emperor wanted to fuck him up personally before letting Vader _publicly_ execute him with a swing of his lightsaber rather than a twitch of his hand. That absolutely should not have flown, and Tarkin signed his own death warrant independent of being atomized on Death Star I.
Vader: You tell him!
Leia: Shut up Vader!
Vader: Don't tell me to shut up missy. Now go to you room!
Leia: Ug! I hate you! I can't wait to be executed!
Tarkin: Are you sure she isn't your daughter?
It forever blows my mind that the canon measure of time in SW is "years since the events of the first movie"
Same. Wouldn't it have made more sense to count it from either the start or the end of the empire or something?
@@mariavi33I don't mind. Star Wars canon gets wild, and it's an easy way to chronologically order events.
Most of the greatest civic and military minds understand that there as much to gain, if not more, from the carrot than the stick. Many tactical and strategic literature, some as old as 2000+ years in real life, state that to ensure a victory you need to give the opposition an easy way out or a corridor to withdraw. Tarkin is a republic/imperial officer who does not even understand the principles of warfare to begin with. He is a rabid dog that feels like he is always backed in a corner since childhood and is still using the same strategy from childhood. Lashing out and flailing only works when there is no other option. It kind of proves that just throwing kid in the woods with a knife doesn't necessarily produces great great warriors, he would probably be better off growing up in kamino being drilled daily in live fire exercises.
He definitely made an impact.
Tarkin is the greatest show of why you can't rule only by fear. Because then the moment you show them weakness, a reason not to fear you, than they will all rise up. You need to show a little kindness, trick them into thinking you care, and blind brutality is gonna do the complete opposite
I love how critical of tarkin you are
I do love the tarkin / krennic rivalry. In catalyst and rogue one novilisation. And in one of the trawn novels
If you're up for suggestions, I'd like to reiterate that you might want to do a video comparing the (Legends) New Jedi Order against it predecessor, to see how (or if) it addressed the Prequel era Order's failings.
Tarkin's mistakes would ultimately lead to his death on the First Death Star.
And what’s even better is that if Krennic had stayed in command or even as the head tech for the station the Rebels would’ve never destroyed her. Tarkin didn’t care that the lead designer put a weak spot that lead to the heart of the station but Krennic would’ve torn her apart and the put her back together to make sure a single lucky snubb fighter couldn’t just blow the DS1 to pieces.
@@pjmetzen3483 its poetically ironic.
5:14 the face you make after being forced to say "cloning technically that the emperor used to stay alive" 🤨😮💨 lol
Tarkin wasnt smart, he was just really evil and willing to do horrific shit. But he was never an effective tactician
Have to say that this was absolutely though provoking and totally spot on the money gem of a video. As apart from the loss of the sovereign which isn't Tarkin's fault and would replace with the Ghemor massacre. He is the best recruiter that the rebel alliance could have ever has asked for in its early days, constantly ensuring a steady flow of recruits, while destroying imperial military assets in the process. To be fair, empire is better served with Tarkin dead and Vader in charge as starfleet is then in more competent hands.
In the end the tarkin doctrine lastest for around 20 years, which is the timeframe needed to consider a political system successful as that is the timeframe needed to raise an entire generation under it.
So technically speaking the empire and the doctrine did *not* fail. What however did happen was that the success of the doctrine lead to the imperial leadership being overreliant on it, which lead to the collapse of the empire.
Its not a concidence that the imperial military became incompetent the moment the empire started spitting out one superweapon after the other. Its the situation of having a useful hammer and thinking a bigger hammer would be more useful.
No it sucked and failed
The irony that Tarkin was making the rebellion stronger with his unnecessarily brutal actions is amusing on so many levels.