After over 5 years of changes and time to process what happened we go back and see the ramifications of Spingate Video Credits: FOX Sports Full NASCAR Races Louis LP2008 NASCAR NBC Sports
@@Gucesarl Actually, Waltrip had a severe penalty a few years earlier for using some type of additive in the gas that allowed for more power, at Daytona I think. He's been a cheater for years.
fun fact: Brian Vickers ended the 2013 season with -50 points because he was involved in the scandal, despite being ineligible for driver points that season
And he even got a win! Must be the first and unique driver in history of any major racing series to have a win and still finishing with negative points.
Yeah. It's too bad, though, that the other innocent bystander from that, Brian Vickers, didn't have much of a career after that. His blood clots ended his career, and for that, I truly feel bad for him. Vickers had some talent. Not enough to get him a Cup Series title, but enough to be a serious contender for wins over and over.
I don't think the drivers knew anything at all of what was happening. It was someone higher up, above crew chief (can only effect their own team) to maybe even owner Michael, who made the decision because they wanted more of their cars in the chase. Maybe he figured it would pay off in more sponsorship money. Kinda like, "See? our teams make the chase. We're worth the money." But having been caught it has the exact opposite effect and was the final nail in the coffin.
1:30 I'm literally laughing at how he didn't even try to hide it. "Where is he" "That sucks" "Hmm is your arm kinda itchy oops you kinda spun out totally not after being told about your teammate" Also "Ooooh yeah"
Bowyer ended up with SHR, Truex with FRR and now Gibbs, Vickers isn't with a good team right now but he never showed as much in the Cup Series. And Michael Waltrip.... Well, his team shut down (serves him right for how he almost cost Truex his career with spingate).
That team was no stranger to controversy especially in its first two or three years. So the fact they tried to bend the rules like this isn't surprising to me.
Really? “It’s hot, does your arm itch?” At least come up with something more subtle, like, “Hey, the car looks a bit loose, do you have a tire going down?”
Literally with f1 having a similar incident called Crashgate I mean it was only a matter of time until nascar had a similar incident and the outcome was very similar too, Teamate crashes/spins bringing out the safety car, teammate or main driver getting into the lead and win, the team getting into trouble and suspension would be forced out do you see where this is going now
Yeah. The radioman must have never played contract bridge. My recommended cheat would sound like, "Are you having some steering issues?" and "If you need us to check out your steering, you better make a beeline for the pit."
That's always the one thing everyone overlooks, the good things and good changes that came out of this whole mess. The one thing about Gordon in this (and I am a Gordon fan so I apologize for sounding bias), was that he had genuinely worked his way into the chase, prior to the cation coming out. And on top of that, you also had Logano and Gilliland striking a deal in the background to ensure Logano made the chase. While the Logano/Gilliland deal wasn't as major, when NASCAR looked back on the whole situation, they realized Gordon was completely screwed out of the chase, hence why he was added back in. It was literally one of those things where Hendrick (perhaps very rarely) followed the rules and still lost out
Honestly, I don't even think it was the fact they knew Jeff got screwed that was so much the factor vs. the fact that Jeff Gordon was one of NASCAR's top-3 most popular drivers in the sport, and a lot of fans-- including myself-- were threatening to boycott the Chase. Not to mention, the got a LOT of phone calls from angry fans pleading to put Jeff in the Chase. While IMO, it was the right thing to do, morals had nothing to do with the decision. It was all about the money and ratings. Brian France wouldn't have done this if it were say, Aric Almirola getting screwed. Heck, I don't even think he would cater to Matt Kenseth, considering he was the last champion under the whole season points format.
@@SinginShooter Actually, he was doing pretty good up until the Texas crash. He was a contender up until then. Yes, I know that JJ and Kenseth were the class of the Chase Field, but Jeff didn't have a single mulligan until the Texas crash. In fact, his overall run in the 2013 Chase was probably better than his run in the 2014 Chase, and 2014 was the year he should've won his 7th Championship.
After MWR downhill slide, Toyota hasn't had a consistent #2 organization that could race multiple cars every week behind JGR. Ford has SHR and Penske. Chevy has HMS and Ganassi.
Well there was Furniture Row Racing, but 1) They were a JGR affiliated team, and 2) They just closed operation. Toyota probably could have a good #2 team if someone dared to make the move, but they would probably need a lot of backing from JGR to start.
@Slideways77 I will admit that Matt DiBenedetto was very impressive in the Daytona 500. He led the most laps, and I think he should've won that race. Of course, lack of talent Paul Menard strikes again.
@Slideways77 LFR is only running 1 car like FRR was doing. Running the 77 car in 2017 killed them even though they won the championship. JGR was probably screwing them and it hard to run a team outside of the South.
@@allabouthewaves4354 Yeah, I think JGR might've pushed that one. They pushed Erik Jones into the Cup Series and that's where they got their 2nd car. Of course, had they kept sponsorship, they would've been okay, but 5-Hour Energy decided to part ways. Which seems pretty stupid to abandon the team that just won the Championship. In a rather dominant season, I might add.
Suggested stories to cover: 1. History of the Past Champion's Provisional 2. Evolution of the Playoff system 3. Zombie Dodges (and how zero factory support affects teams) 4. The NASCAR Cola War
They need to work on some code words. An itching arm? C'mon! Shoulda asked about his tires or if he asked about his handling with some sort of code word lmao
I think they could've gotten away with it if they were more committed. Better code words, maybe having one of their non contender cars wreck instead of spin or pit, etc. It would be a really different world if MWR was still around as Toyota's team
Dang that closing point was really good. I never thought of it like that. Awesome that it ended up working out for everyone. Except MWR rip. Great video
Or at the very least, gave JGR a run for their money. Heck, honestly, who's to say that MWR couldn't have built up enough of a budget to bring in a new manufacture? I'm sure other brands would like to get into NASCAR.
@@Vault13CanteenFNV Honda already is in IndyCar, and their cars have engines with POWER. Yeah, I know Honda seems like the green brand, but they know how to make horsepower. Also, believe it or not, all of NASCAR's manufacturers use Honda parts for their engines in NASCAR. It's only fitting for Honda to full-blown come into the sport. I don't we have to worry about NASCAR going full-blown "green," though, unless Tesla makes their way into NASCAR.
It's od there's no mention of the "spin gate" that took place at Richmond only one year before with RCR. Paul Menard and Kevin harvick received no penalties at that race even though it was even more clear that the team asked Paul Menard to spin out on purpose.
NASCAR's overzealous attitude towards throwing cautions to make things more exciting is the real culprit behind these. NASCAR wouldn't have this problem if they would quit throwing pity cautions. That Paul Menard spin was a too perfect example of a pity caution.
I know this has nothing to do with the point of this video, but whenever I go back and watch highlights of past races at the upcoming weekend's track, and I get to Richmond, I skip the 2013 fall race. My favorite driver, Ryan Newman, was going to win, but he lost because of Bowyer's spin. I know he eventually got into the chase because of it, but it's still hard to re-watch my favorite driver lose a race because of someone intentionally spinning out, especially because Newman doesn't win very often. Aside from that, this video is interesting. I never realized how much of a positive impact Spingate had on the careers of Elliott, Truex and Bowyer
Its had a big impact on Toyota imo. Toyota went from having an A team and a B team to having an A team and a B team ran out of Colorado that was barely holding on. They finally found a 2nd organization that they could compete with against Chevy and Ford but then lost it all thanks to Spingate. Future drivers like Erik Jones, Daniel Suarez, William Byron, Cole Custer, and Christoper Bell wouldn't have to wait for rides and easily could start at MWR and wait for Kenseth, Edwards to retire.
In a way it benefited Newman for the following season. Because without spingate, there would be no playoff system and he wouldn't have been able to come up just one spot shy of a championship in 2014.
@@allabouthewaves4354 -- Truex would put that B team on the map before the loss of a critical sponsor, just before the Chase, meant it had to close. (Leavine Family Racing has replaced Furniture Row as the 5th Gibbs car.)
I remember this clearly because i was close to not watching nascar again. i know i’m biased as a truex fan but i thought this was the stupidest penalty ever. teams do this all the time and this basically killed MWR (one of the few competitive teams left) and almost ended Bowyers and Truex’s careers. worst of all penske did the same thing in the same race (aside from the spin) and stayed in the chase. all that aside i’m glad it worked out for Truex and Bowyer, although it’s sad for waltrip still because he lost his team
What teams have you seen that make a driver to spin out to get their other car into the Chase or tells their other driver to go down pit road for a point?
Ricky Evans You said it’s happened all the time yet I’ve only seen 3 instances of teammates manipulating the race and I’ve been watching NASCAR since 03.
AllaboutheWaves it’s also all under wraps, you think teams are gonna be blatantly obvious about it. the only thing with this instance was they actually got caught
This reminds me of crashgate in formula 1. Where Renault had Nelson Piquet Jr intentionally crash to bring out the safety car to allow his teammate to win the race.
For Martin Truex Jr., this was a blessing in disguise, especially after late in its existence, the 78 became the 5th Gibbs car, and when Furniture Row shut down, Truex ended up at the Gibbs team, with two of his sponsors.
The reason why Gordon was added as a 13th car into the Chase was because of the Bowyer spin. Without it, he would have made the Chase on points. Then Logano was able to execute a secondary team order with David Gilliland (Penske and Penske-related team) to keep Gordon out.
Jeff Gordon at first was screwed. The point is it wasn't fixed by NASCAR but by MWR helping a teammate make the Chase and many things wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for what happened that night
Right from its Daytona debut MWR went way beyond the 'grey area'. I could never decide if he personally was aware of these decisions. But with so many instances of cheating he was either clueless, had no control over a company he was a big share holder of or fully aware of what went on. Sad really I like(d) his personality.
Poor Vickers barely gets a mention. I think after this season his blood clots came back and after he was cleared again he ironically subbed for Tony Stewart (who teammate Clint replaced)
I had words with someone on another video a couple days ago about this crap back in the early 2000's. He was trying to tell me that teams didn't work together and never would the Hendrick boys even think about it....lol
I was this race today. Bowyer spined out right in front of me bringing out the caution there was only one caution that race when Jimmie Johnson tire tore.
But Kevin harvick can purposely wreck half the field at the fall talladega race in 2015 it’s funny cause he stated over the radio his gears are shot so nascar should have made him be in the back of the field they didn’t do that. Hell if it was front row Motorsport or HSCOTT they would have been kicked to the curb. His actions deliberately ruined Dale jrs most realistic championship shot in the playoff era. but nothing happend to him it’s truly ridiculous
That is definitely one I'm gonna cover in the future. As a Dale Jr. fan I'm weary of it because I don't want to be biased. From an objective point of view I believe that Junior would win that race though.
The Iceberg I remember watching that race wire to wire it was destined for him to win. He should have won he fought tooth and nail to be up front. It’s only frustrating cause you see what happened to him with his concussion in 2016 and his slump in 2017
I feel like NASCAR shouldn't have handed Vickers a 50-point penalty because he was clearly not in on the plan. Instead, they should have added those 50 points to Bowyer's penalty, as it would knock Bowyer out of The Chase and not make the point penalty meaningless. In addition, that would also put Jeff Gordon in The Chase without adding him in as a 13th driver.
The Deal between Team Penske & Front Row Motorsports during that said race in order to benefit Joey Logano's chances of making The Chase that season was the direct reason why Jeff Gordon was added as The 13th seed
i really never understood how bowyer ended up as the bad guy in this whole deal, for me it's like if everyone had gotten mad at barrichello for letting pass schumacher
You forgot the interview with dale jr after the race. He was behind CB when he spun. He callled out Bowyer and NASCAR, said he wanted the telemetry from CB's car because he said the spin was intentional. I trust a professional athelete (Dale jr), he would know if it was accidental or intentional. It looked intentional when i was watching the race. Thanks for the vid, well done
The Spingate would change NASCAR's rules forever. The current points format with stages, the charter system and post-race reviews are a product of this event. MWR hunted his own grave after this.
tbh i never really understood how this was considered “cheating”. that’s almost like calling a time-out in a football or basketball game cheating. i personally see it as strategy. then again i guess a flop in soccer, while i guess not considered “cheating” also isn’t necessarily just “strategy”. idk. perspective i guess. still, i don’t consider this as cheating personally.
How is it not cheating? Bowyer spun out because of his teammate was going to get booted out. If Bowyer didn't spin out, Ryan Newman wins the race, gets in the Chase as the 2nd Wildcard driver behind Kahne, eliminates Truex Jr from the Chase and Jeff Gordon bumps Logano out of the Chase off of points. Bowyer influenced the way the race ended.
AllaboutheWaves but calling a time-out in a football game can/normally does effect the outcome, but that’s not considered cheating. ofc this is a different sport but personally i don’t see this as being too much different they basically just “stopped the clock” to give themselves an advantage. it’s not like they had higher horsepower in their car or different aerodynamics. that would 100% be cheating. just my opinion i guess
@@blakeandrews9496 You can't call a timeout in NASCAR tho LMFAOOOOOO. Outside of that stunt Jr pulled at Bristol, Paul Menard spinning out at Richmond 2011 after Gordon passed his teammate Harvick for lead, and Spingate, I can't find 1 incident where a driver purposely spun out to help their teammates get an advantage.
It's definitely some kind of cheating, but I do get your point. But, I mean, if it wouldn't be cheating, it would still definitely be very uncool and bad sportsmanship in every way. NASCAR has used the 'Actions detrimental to stock car racing' for all kinds of BS but in the case of this incident, it's called for.
TheFlagstand yeah that’s my point like i see why this became a problem all i was saying was i don’t particularly see how this is considered “cheating”, as it’s not something that gave them an unfair advantage. up to this point in NASCAR, as far as i know, there was no rule that said you couldn’t intentionally spin out. maybe there was in which case yeah i guess it is technically cheating and i’m dead wrong, which is fair. my entire point was basically that while no i definitely don’t defend it and i don’t think it was the right thing to do, if you’re getting beat fair and square take it, but that i don’t particularly see it as “cheating”.
It's still amazing to think about how much talent MTJ has. If you can win a RACE let alone a Championship with FRR you've got talent. JGR was right to pick him up. And look at him: 7 wins this season.
the only one to lose was MWR, the drivers went on to be either unaffected or directly benefit from it, NASCAR benefited, and the sport itself, while losing it's integrity in the sort term, got it's new face and an awesome story of a driver breaking out on a small team from it.
It's like another infuriating scandal in Motorsport, Crashgate, aka the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. The Renault F1 team ordering their second driver, Nelson Piquet Junior, to deliberately crash. This brought out the Safety Car to benefit their lead driver, Fernando Alonso, who just happened to be on a very light fuel load. To many at the time, it looked awfully suspicious, especially given that Alonso went on to win the race. Pandora's Box was opened a year later, however, when Renault fire Piquet for poor performance. Piquet revealed to the FIA that he was ordered to crash. The result left Renault with a very suspiciously light punishment in retrospect. The was given a suspended ban, Piquet was given immunity [from punishment] in return for his evidence, Chief Engineering Director Pat Symmonds was given a 5 year ban and Team Principal Flavio Briatore was initially banned from FIA activity for life (though later cleared of all charges in the Court of Appeal). Then (2009) BBC F1 Pit Lane reporter, Ted Kravitz, barely contained his disgust about the affair: "Renault have admitted that they fixed last year's Singapore Grand Prix, but did they get away with it? "We now know what happened, Nelson Piquet crashed on purpose to bring out the Safety Car. This wasn't spying on other teams [Spygate] or lying to the Stewards [Liegate], this was endangering spectators, marshalls and his own safety. The only debate is whether the plan to crash deliberately was Piquet's idea or Pat Symmonds'. Each one blames the other, so someone is still not telling the truth,"
Honestly it still sucks this had to happen. MWR went from being a mediocre team to a team that could compete for wins and championships in just a couple short seasons. Bowyer had just finished 2nd in points in 2012 and all three cars were very competitive in 2013. Then it all came crashing down after this one race.
Renault did this a whole lot better: they got the win, actually crashed, didn’t ask if Nelson Piquet Jr had an itchy arm and it took nearly a whole year for anyone to find out.
Sadly Norris just realized the game and tried jumping into it last minute & wound up becoming the scapegoat because everyone else had been playing it so well that without the single scapegoat the whole house of cards was looking to come burning down.
Spingate isn't where this story, the story of the downfall of MWR, begins, however. This story began earlier, and oddly enough, three of the four major players in Spingate, Bowyer, Truex and Gordon, made the chase that year. Truex was eliminated early, but Bowyer and Gordon were in it until the end. Until a pissed-off Gordon took exception to something Bowyer had done and intentionally wrecked him with 10 laps to go at the next-to-last race, Phoenix, and basically handed the title to someone else. It turned out that if Gordon hadn't intentionally wrecked Bowyer, Bowyer would have won the title. What makes it even worse is who Gordon basically handed that title to: Gordon's Hendrick teammate, Jimmie Johnson. What if Gordon hadn't intentionally wrecked Bowyer? What if Bowyer had won the 2011 title? How would Spingate have affected things in a scenario where Bowyer and MWR had a title under their belts just two years earlier? The story of Spingate isn't quite finished. It's time to take a look at another angle, one where MWR is financially stable thanks to Bowyer's 2011 title win.
Back then, I wished Bowyer never spun himself on purpose to get a penalty But now looking at the outcomes that have been caused by Bowyer’s spin... I’m glad Clint Bowyer spun himself on purpose Sucks that MWR shut down, but it gave FRR an opportunity at a championship, helped Truex’s career to rise and giving a current super-star in the Cup Series a sponsor we know and love (NAPA)
This was such a disappointing race as a Ryan Newman fan. He had lost his ride, despite being solid for SHR, and had recently won the Brickyard 400 but still needed a win at Richmond to get in. He absolutely ran down Edwards and blew past him in what would have been in awesome win to launch him into the chase after being let go.
I wonder what would happen in an alternate dimension where Spingate never happened? Would Truex never win a championship? Would MWR still be around today?
I actually had no problem with spin gate at hot of a take as that may be. It was lowbrow yes, but nothing about it was against the rules (team orders while frowned upon are not banned in nascar). Besides, there was no garuntee that Truex would make the chase even with those team orders; he still had to make up all those positions. Personally I think everyone got worked up over something that wasn’t a big deal, causing nascar to overreact and make things worse
Lol Joking aside though, its good that Bowyer and Truex didn't have their careers sink because of this. Waltrip was the biggest loser out of this whole deal
I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often in NASCAR. It sometimes happens in F1 and it helps kill the sport. F1 has the infamous "team orders" that favors one driver. It can't help but sow discord with the other one. It was apparent that the driver pitting under green was pissed off. Who wouldn't be?
The fact that they told Vickers to pit is completely up to them, its their car after all - I don't understand why they felt like they needed to lie about it. Clint spinning intentionally couldve caused other cars to get involved and (i realise it wasn't a fast track.. But) what if someone else got hurt? Did much ever come of the Penske - Front Row moment? Anyway, hope you're good and staying safe.
In the long run Michael Waltrip was the only one to lose a ton.
His race team and his dignity.
Without doing nothing.
@@Gucesarl That means he did something.
@@Gucesarl Actually, Waltrip had a severe penalty a few years earlier for using some type of additive in the gas that allowed for more power, at Daytona I think. He's been a cheater for years.
Mark S I was talking about Spingate alone
@@gold98gtp Yep.. he's not even a good one. He was inept as hell at even doing that.. guy never had a clue.
fun fact: Brian Vickers ended the 2013 season with -50 points because he was involved in the scandal, despite being ineligible for driver points that season
Lol, I didn't even think about that. That's pretty funny in hindsight
How is that possible?
I forgot all about that fact. Good catch man
@@SparksFly4 NASCAR a bunch of spiteful ass hats
And he even got a win! Must be the first and unique driver in history of any major racing series to have a win and still finishing with negative points.
Good thing Martin Truex and Clint bowyer recovered from that mess.
Yeah. It's too bad, though, that the other innocent bystander from that, Brian Vickers, didn't have much of a career after that. His blood clots ended his career, and for that, I truly feel bad for him. Vickers had some talent. Not enough to get him a Cup Series title, but enough to be a serious contender for wins over and over.
I don't think the drivers knew anything at all of what was happening. It was someone higher up, above crew chief (can only effect their own team) to maybe even owner Michael, who made the decision because they wanted more of their cars in the chase. Maybe he figured it would pay off in more sponsorship money. Kinda like, "See? our teams make the chase. We're worth the money." But having been caught it has the exact opposite effect and was the final nail in the coffin.
Truex recovered but Bowyer for that stupidity lost the championship in 2013 and after that would not have the same prominence again as before.
Vickers was a hack my guy, bro was not a good driver competing for wins every week @nascarfanatic2425
1:30
I'm literally laughing at how he didn't even try to hide it.
"Where is he"
"That sucks"
"Hmm is your arm kinda itchy oops you kinda spun out totally not after being told about your teammate"
Also
"Ooooh yeah"
It’s interesting how Spingate seemingly worked well in the end for everyone. Bowyer is such a smart guy
RawGator annnd then there's Vickers!!
Bowyer ended up with SHR, Truex with FRR and now Gibbs, Vickers isn't with a good team right now but he never showed as much in the Cup Series. And Michael Waltrip.... Well, his team shut down (serves him right for how he almost cost Truex his career with spingate).
David The main goal of spingate WAS to get Truex into the Chase. It just backfired.
well he did have that heart issue
Abacus Very true, I no doubt think that factored into why he isn't in Cup now. He's had major blood clot issues at least twice.
3:30 that’s a perfectly placed Alex Jones that gave me a good laugh.
Thanks, I figured that some comedy was needed so that it wasn't too serious
The Iceberg It was perfect especially with him going batshit crazy yesterday
*F* in the Chat for MWR, _as this was the event that led to it's downfall..._
F
That team was no stranger to controversy especially in its first two or three years. So the fact they tried to bend the rules like this isn't surprising to me.
The team was trash already
@@joshsmithson7955 Did you watch the 2012 season?
BlakeCampMusic yes I went to Autoclub, Vegas, and Phoenix that year
Really? “It’s hot, does your arm itch?”
At least come up with something more subtle, like, “Hey, the car looks a bit loose, do you have a tire going down?”
That's like Ferrari in F1 being blatantly open about giving team orders
Or "hey if we start talking about how someone isnt going to make the chase on the radio, spin out later, enough laps away that it isnt obvious.
Literally with f1 having a similar incident called Crashgate I mean it was only a matter of time until nascar had a similar incident and the outcome was very similar too, Teamate crashes/spins bringing out the safety car, teammate or main driver getting into the lead and win, the team getting into trouble and suspension would be forced out do you see where this is going now
Yeah. The radioman must have never played contract bridge. My recommended cheat would sound like, "Are you having some steering issues?" and "If you need us to check out your steering, you better make a beeline for the pit."
When Nascar wants to emulate F1s Crashgate.
Crashgate 2: Electric Boogaloo
We need an in-depth video on Brian France by The Iceberg himself
Oh it will be coming. Probably on the anniversary of ole Bug eye Bri's DUI arrest
@@TheIceberg How many hours will it be lol
SodaPressing stole my comment lol
That's always the one thing everyone overlooks, the good things and good changes that came out of this whole mess.
The one thing about Gordon in this (and I am a Gordon fan so I apologize for sounding bias), was that he had genuinely worked his way into the chase, prior to the cation coming out. And on top of that, you also had Logano and Gilliland striking a deal in the background to ensure Logano made the chase. While the Logano/Gilliland deal wasn't as major, when NASCAR looked back on the whole situation, they realized Gordon was completely screwed out of the chase, hence why he was added back in. It was literally one of those things where Hendrick (perhaps very rarely) followed the rules and still lost out
That's exactly why they added Gordon in.
Honestly, I don't even think it was the fact they knew Jeff got screwed that was so much the factor vs. the fact that Jeff Gordon was one of NASCAR's top-3 most popular drivers in the sport, and a lot of fans-- including myself-- were threatening to boycott the Chase. Not to mention, the got a LOT of phone calls from angry fans pleading to put Jeff in the Chase. While IMO, it was the right thing to do, morals had nothing to do with the decision. It was all about the money and ratings. Brian France wouldn't have done this if it were say, Aric Almirola getting screwed. Heck, I don't even think he would cater to Matt Kenseth, considering he was the last champion under the whole season points format.
I'm a Gordon fan also and i was shocked that they added him as a 13th driver. It is something that will probably never happen again.
@@SinginShooter Actually, he was doing pretty good up until the Texas crash. He was a contender up until then. Yes, I know that JJ and Kenseth were the class of the Chase Field, but Jeff didn't have a single mulligan until the Texas crash. In fact, his overall run in the 2013 Chase was probably better than his run in the 2014 Chase, and 2014 was the year he should've won his 7th Championship.
After MWR downhill slide, Toyota hasn't had a consistent #2 organization that could race multiple cars every week behind JGR. Ford has SHR and Penske. Chevy has HMS and Ganassi.
Well there was Furniture Row Racing, but 1) They were a JGR affiliated team, and 2) They just closed operation. Toyota probably could have a good #2 team if someone dared to make the move, but they would probably need a lot of backing from JGR to start.
@Slideways77 I will admit that Matt DiBenedetto was very impressive in the Daytona 500. He led the most laps, and I think he should've won that race. Of course, lack of talent Paul Menard strikes again.
@@nascarfanatic2425 FRR only ran 2 cars for 1 season and let's be real, running 2 cars killed that team imo.
@Slideways77 LFR is only running 1 car like FRR was doing. Running the 77 car in 2017 killed them even though they won the championship. JGR was probably screwing them and it hard to run a team outside of the South.
@@allabouthewaves4354 Yeah, I think JGR might've pushed that one. They pushed Erik Jones into the Cup Series and that's where they got their 2nd car. Of course, had they kept sponsorship, they would've been okay, but 5-Hour Energy decided to part ways. Which seems pretty stupid to abandon the team that just won the Championship. In a rather dominant season, I might add.
Suggested stories to cover:
1. History of the Past Champion's Provisional
2. Evolution of the Playoff system
3. Zombie Dodges (and how zero factory support affects teams)
4. The NASCAR Cola War
Those are great ideas. I just put them on my future video ideas list
They need to work on some code words. An itching arm? C'mon! Shoulda asked about his tires or if he asked about his handling with some sort of code word lmao
I think they could've gotten away with it if they were more committed. Better code words, maybe having one of their non contender cars wreck instead of spin or pit, etc. It would be a really different world if MWR was still around as Toyota's team
In f1 they just tell the driver " hay your team mate needs the spot pull over"
@@jerrodp3572 -- Or maybe not do it with a car with onboard cameras!
*The year is 2013*
Shows clip from 2012..
The "Strange Animal" song at the end, I can't help but think of Steven Crowder.
Dang that closing point was really good. I never thought of it like that. Awesome that it ended up working out for everyone. Except MWR rip. Great video
Truex actually Benefitted due To SpinGate so thank you Clint.
my favorite part of all this is when mikey is standing beside the car postrace & you can see him mouth "we made it in"
This killed an up and coming team. If this never happened i fully believed they would’ve been right there as best Toyota team in nascar
Or at the very least, gave JGR a run for their money. Heck, honestly, who's to say that MWR couldn't have built up enough of a budget to bring in a new manufacture? I'm sure other brands would like to get into NASCAR.
nascarfanatic2425 if dodge had interest in nascar still they could’ve replaced Penske as their main staple
@@allprosportz686 I think Honda could also possibly make it if they wanted to try their hand at NASCAR, if they were with the right team.
@@nascarfanatic2425 As much as I'd love that I think Honda is too "green" for NASCAR
The hate comments from NASCAR "purists" would be golden tho
@@Vault13CanteenFNV Honda already is in IndyCar, and their cars have engines with POWER. Yeah, I know Honda seems like the green brand, but they know how to make horsepower. Also, believe it or not, all of NASCAR's manufacturers use Honda parts for their engines in NASCAR. It's only fitting for Honda to full-blown come into the sport. I don't we have to worry about NASCAR going full-blown "green," though, unless Tesla makes their way into NASCAR.
3:31 I love how Brian France's eyes are all jacked up. It actually makes him look smarter.
Imagine explaining this entire situation to someone whos never watched NASCAR
Thats me bro. Ive been guzzling NASCAR videos for 2 weeks and working hard to catch up. I get part of this Xox
GREAT CONTENT !!!
Mikeyyyy spin gate that was one of the reason why MWR shut down an dale jr interview was the best
It's od there's no mention of the "spin gate" that took place at Richmond only one year before with RCR. Paul Menard and Kevin harvick received no penalties at that race even though it was even more clear that the team asked Paul Menard to spin out on purpose.
I remember that. Fucked Gordon out of the win.
NASCAR's overzealous attitude towards throwing cautions to make things more exciting is the real culprit behind these. NASCAR wouldn't have this problem if they would quit throwing pity cautions. That Paul Menard spin was a too perfect example of a pity caution.
F for Michael Waltrip Racing
F
F
F
UCK
f
I know this has nothing to do with the point of this video, but whenever I go back and watch highlights of past races at the upcoming weekend's track, and I get to Richmond, I skip the 2013 fall race. My favorite driver, Ryan Newman, was going to win, but he lost because of Bowyer's spin. I know he eventually got into the chase because of it, but it's still hard to re-watch my favorite driver lose a race because of someone intentionally spinning out, especially because Newman doesn't win very often.
Aside from that, this video is interesting. I never realized how much of a positive impact Spingate had on the careers of Elliott, Truex and Bowyer
I'm the same way when it comes to the 2011 Coke 600 as a Dale Jr fan. It's painful as a fan lol
Its had a big impact on Toyota imo. Toyota went from having an A team and a B team to having an A team and a B team ran out of Colorado that was barely holding on. They finally found a 2nd organization that they could compete with against Chevy and Ford but then lost it all thanks to Spingate. Future drivers like Erik Jones, Daniel Suarez, William Byron, Cole Custer, and Christoper Bell wouldn't have to wait for rides and easily could start at MWR and wait for Kenseth, Edwards to retire.
In a way it benefited Newman for the following season.
Because without spingate, there would be no playoff system and he wouldn't have been able to come up just one spot shy of a championship in 2014.
Fall 2014 Phoenix, thanks to Newman trucking Larson...
@@allabouthewaves4354 -- Truex would put that B team on the map before the loss of a critical sponsor, just before the Chase, meant it had to close. (Leavine Family Racing has replaced Furniture Row as the 5th Gibbs car.)
Good video man, audio track clipping was a little rough at times, but I loved the story telling. Keep it up
Thanks for the revisit 6 years later
I love vickers “oh so I got a tire going down?”
I remember this clearly because i was close to not watching nascar again. i know i’m biased as a truex fan but i thought this was the stupidest penalty ever. teams do this all the time and this basically killed MWR (one of the few competitive teams left) and almost ended Bowyers and Truex’s careers. worst of all penske did the same thing in the same race (aside from the spin) and stayed in the chase. all that aside i’m glad it worked out for Truex and Bowyer, although it’s sad for waltrip still because he lost his team
What teams have you seen that make a driver to spin out to get their other car into the Chase or tells their other driver to go down pit road for a point?
AllaboutheWaves 2003 truck championship Ultra Motorsports entered extra trucks and wrecked the points leader on purpose
Ricky Evans You said it’s happened all the time yet I’ve only seen 3 instances of teammates manipulating the race and I’ve been watching NASCAR since 03.
AllaboutheWaves it’s also all under wraps, you think teams are gonna be blatantly obvious about it. the only thing with this instance was they actually got caught
This reminds me of crashgate in formula 1. Where Renault had Nelson Piquet Jr intentionally crash to bring out the safety car to allow his teammate to win the race.
For Martin Truex Jr., this was a blessing in disguise, especially after late in its existence, the 78 became the 5th Gibbs car, and when Furniture Row shut down, Truex ended up at the Gibbs team, with two of his sponsors.
I'd say NAPA ended up with an upgrade.
This thing was freaking crazy when it happened. Also, nice reference to Alex Jones!😂
The reason why Gordon was added as a 13th car into the Chase was because of the Bowyer spin. Without it, he would have made the Chase on points. Then Logano was able to execute a secondary team order with David Gilliland (Penske and Penske-related team) to keep Gordon out.
This is a perfect example on how one small event changed history. If this event never happened Nascar today would be much different.
Just some smart plays by some good drivers :)
Tbh that is great teamwork
Jeff Gordon at first was screwed. The point is it wasn't fixed by NASCAR but by MWR helping a teammate make the Chase and many things wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for what happened that night
I just read Tuohy's "itch it" chapter. Sooo wild
Spingate also help my favorite driver, Joey Logano, get in and his team was in cahoots with Front Row Motorsports while the MWR incident happened
Right from its Daytona debut MWR went way beyond the 'grey area'. I could never decide if he personally was aware of these decisions. But with so many instances of cheating he was either clueless, had no control over a company he was a big share holder of or fully aware of what went on. Sad really I like(d) his personality.
definitely agree with you
I miss 78 truex...
Poor Vickers barely gets a mention. I think after this season his blood clots came back and after he was cleared again he ironically subbed for Tony Stewart (who teammate Clint replaced)
I had words with someone on another video a couple days ago about this crap back in the early 2000's. He was trying to tell me that teams didn't work together and never would the Hendrick boys even think about it....lol
I was this race today. Bowyer spined out right in front of me bringing out the caution there was only one caution that race when Jimmie Johnson tire tore.
I always feel bad for Vickers with his blood clot thing
But Kevin harvick can purposely wreck half the field at the fall talladega race in 2015 it’s funny cause he stated over the radio his gears are shot so nascar should have made him be in the back of the field they didn’t do that. Hell if it was front row Motorsport or HSCOTT they would have been kicked to the curb. His actions deliberately ruined Dale jrs most realistic championship shot in the playoff era. but nothing happend to him it’s truly ridiculous
Let's not forget Paul Menard spinning out at Richmond 2 years earlier than Spingate after his teammate Harvick got passed by Jeff Gordon for the lead.
That is definitely one I'm gonna cover in the future. As a Dale Jr. fan I'm weary of it because I don't want to be biased. From an objective point of view I believe that Junior would win that race though.
The Iceberg I remember watching that race wire to wire it was destined for him to win. He should have won he fought tooth and nail to be up front.
It’s only frustrating cause you see what happened to him with his concussion in 2016 and his slump in 2017
I feel like NASCAR shouldn't have handed Vickers a 50-point penalty because he was clearly not in on the plan. Instead, they should have added those 50 points to Bowyer's penalty, as it would knock Bowyer out of The Chase and not make the point penalty meaningless. In addition, that would also put Jeff Gordon in The Chase without adding him in as a 13th driver.
I was at this race
The only thing to remember from 2013
To this day I still call him Clint "itch it" bowyer. I watched this live and was shocked there seemed to be no real punishment was there
The Deal between Team Penske & Front Row Motorsports during that said race in order to benefit Joey Logano's chances of making The Chase that season was the direct reason why Jeff Gordon was added as The 13th seed
i really never understood how bowyer ended up as the bad guy in this whole deal, for me it's like if everyone had gotten mad at barrichello for letting pass schumacher
Why am I getting recommended nascar videos all of the sudden?
Well, you watching them and commenting on them will make UA-cam recommend them more
You forgot the interview with dale jr after the race. He was behind CB when he spun. He callled out Bowyer and NASCAR, said he wanted the telemetry from CB's car because he said the spin was intentional. I trust a professional athelete (Dale jr), he would know if it was accidental or intentional. It looked intentional when i was watching the race. Thanks for the vid, well done
Do spingates on other races where drivers spins someone out
Also Team Penske and Roush (or other team) was put on probation until the end of the 2013 year but somehow Logano was still in the chase
The Spingate would change NASCAR's rules forever. The current points format with stages, the charter system and post-race reviews are a product of this event. MWR hunted his own grave after this.
tbh i never really understood how this was considered “cheating”. that’s almost like calling a time-out in a football or basketball game cheating. i personally see it as strategy. then again i guess a flop in soccer, while i guess not considered “cheating” also isn’t necessarily just “strategy”. idk. perspective i guess. still, i don’t consider this as cheating personally.
How is it not cheating? Bowyer spun out because of his teammate was going to get booted out. If Bowyer didn't spin out, Ryan Newman wins the race, gets in the Chase as the 2nd Wildcard driver behind Kahne, eliminates Truex Jr from the Chase and Jeff Gordon bumps Logano out of the Chase off of points. Bowyer influenced the way the race ended.
AllaboutheWaves but calling a time-out in a football game can/normally does effect the outcome, but that’s not considered cheating. ofc this is a different sport but personally i don’t see this as being too much different they basically just “stopped the clock” to give themselves an advantage. it’s not like they had higher horsepower in their car or different aerodynamics. that would 100% be cheating. just my opinion i guess
@@blakeandrews9496 You can't call a timeout in NASCAR tho LMFAOOOOOO. Outside of that stunt Jr pulled at Bristol, Paul Menard spinning out at Richmond 2011 after Gordon passed his teammate Harvick for lead, and Spingate, I can't find 1 incident where a driver purposely spun out to help their teammates get an advantage.
It's definitely some kind of cheating, but I do get your point.
But, I mean, if it wouldn't be cheating, it would still definitely be very uncool and bad sportsmanship in every way.
NASCAR has used the 'Actions detrimental to stock car racing' for all kinds of BS but in the case of this incident, it's called for.
TheFlagstand yeah that’s my point like i see why this became a problem all i was saying was i don’t particularly see how this is considered “cheating”, as it’s not something that gave them an unfair advantage. up to this point in NASCAR, as far as i know, there was no rule that said you couldn’t intentionally spin out. maybe there was in which case yeah i guess it is technically cheating and i’m dead wrong, which is fair. my entire point was basically that while no i definitely don’t defend it and i don’t think it was the right thing to do, if you’re getting beat fair and square take it, but that i don’t particularly see it as “cheating”.
Damn the backstretch grandstands where huge! Shame nascar decided to get rid of em
Lol, I was there when it happened
7:19 Bogaerts 1st career homerun in the ticker... crazy day
I just feel like it shows how nascar will try to help teams win. Because nobody else has ever done anything like this. Or have they?
I was at this race. What a confusing night.
Me too
I was at this race
I was like 9 years old lol
It's still amazing to think about how much talent MTJ has. If you can win a RACE let alone a Championship with FRR you've got talent. JGR was right to pick him up. And look at him: 7 wins this season.
Everybody acted like all the other teams weren't doing the same thing!! It's still happens nowadays.
Is that exit a nod to louder with Crowder?
Spin gate was a setup to shake the whole thing up eh🤣. Damn Nascar and it's drama
the only one to lose was MWR, the drivers went on to be either unaffected or directly benefit from it, NASCAR benefited, and the sport itself, while losing it's integrity in the sort term, got it's new face and an awesome story of a driver breaking out on a small team from it.
My take away is that I always suspected TRD and Rob Kauffman are both terrible for the integrity of the sport and this was the tipping point of that.
It's like another infuriating scandal in Motorsport, Crashgate, aka the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. The Renault F1 team ordering their second driver, Nelson Piquet Junior, to deliberately crash. This brought out the Safety Car to benefit their lead driver, Fernando Alonso, who just happened to be on a very light fuel load. To many at the time, it looked awfully suspicious, especially given that Alonso went on to win the race. Pandora's Box was opened a year later, however, when Renault fire Piquet for poor performance.
Piquet revealed to the FIA that he was ordered to crash. The result left Renault with a very suspiciously light punishment in retrospect. The was given a suspended ban, Piquet was given immunity [from punishment] in return for his evidence, Chief Engineering Director Pat Symmonds was given a 5 year ban and Team Principal Flavio Briatore was initially banned from FIA activity for life (though later cleared of all charges in the Court of Appeal). Then (2009) BBC F1 Pit Lane reporter, Ted Kravitz, barely contained his disgust about the affair:
"Renault have admitted that they fixed last year's Singapore Grand Prix, but did they get away with it?
"We now know what happened, Nelson Piquet crashed on purpose to bring out the Safety Car. This wasn't spying on other teams [Spygate] or lying to the Stewards [Liegate], this was endangering spectators, marshalls and his own safety. The only debate is whether the plan to crash deliberately was Piquet's idea or Pat Symmonds'. Each one blames the other, so someone is still not telling the truth,"
Alex Jones
I still will never understand why this was such a big deal. Most other motorsports, theres always team orders that can be put into effect
Honestly it still sucks this had to happen. MWR went from being a mediocre team to a team that could compete for wins and championships in just a couple short seasons. Bowyer had just finished 2nd in points in 2012 and all three cars were very competitive in 2013. Then it all came crashing down after this one race.
Clit is now the stooge for Gordon, awesome career
2008 Singapore GP : NASCAR version.
Renault did this a whole lot better: they got the win, actually crashed, didn’t ask if Nelson Piquet Jr had an itchy arm and it took nearly a whole year for anyone to find out.
Sadly Norris just realized the game and tried jumping into it last minute & wound up becoming the scapegoat because everyone else had been playing it so well that without the single scapegoat the whole house of cards was looking to come burning down.
2011 was worse when Menard spunout on purpose for harvick when Jeff gordon took the lead at richmond. That race still hurts to this day.
How do you make a spin and code so bad
Spingate isn't where this story, the story of the downfall of MWR, begins, however.
This story began earlier, and oddly enough, three of the four major players in Spingate, Bowyer, Truex and Gordon, made the chase that year.
Truex was eliminated early, but Bowyer and Gordon were in it until the end.
Until a pissed-off Gordon took exception to something Bowyer had done and intentionally wrecked him with 10 laps to go at the next-to-last race, Phoenix, and basically handed the title to someone else.
It turned out that if Gordon hadn't intentionally wrecked Bowyer, Bowyer would have won the title.
What makes it even worse is who Gordon basically handed that title to: Gordon's Hendrick teammate, Jimmie Johnson.
What if Gordon hadn't intentionally wrecked Bowyer? What if Bowyer had won the 2011 title?
How would Spingate have affected things in a scenario where Bowyer and MWR had a title under their belts just two years earlier?
The story of Spingate isn't quite finished. It's time to take a look at another angle, one where MWR is financially stable thanks to Bowyer's 2011 title win.
Back then, I wished Bowyer never spun himself on purpose to get a penalty
But now looking at the outcomes that have been caused by Bowyer’s spin... I’m glad Clint Bowyer spun himself on purpose
Sucks that MWR shut down, but it gave FRR an opportunity at a championship, helped Truex’s career to rise and giving a current super-star in the Cup Series a sponsor we know and love (NAPA)
The only bad thing that came out of this was having to deal with Michael Waltrip on a more regular basis on Fox...
@3:34 this guy can watch the whole track, at the same time
And Bowyer has still never admitted to it.
This was such a disappointing race as a Ryan Newman fan. He had lost his ride, despite being solid for SHR, and had recently won the Brickyard 400 but still needed a win at Richmond to get in. He absolutely ran down Edwards and blew past him in what would have been in awesome win to launch him into the chase after being let go.
I wonder what would happen in an alternate dimension where Spingate never happened? Would Truex never win a championship? Would MWR still be around today?
I actually had no problem with spin gate at hot of a take as that may be. It was lowbrow yes, but nothing about it was against the rules (team orders while frowned upon are not banned in nascar). Besides, there was no garuntee that Truex would make the chase even with those team orders; he still had to make up all those positions. Personally I think everyone got worked up over something that wasn’t a big deal, causing nascar to overreact and make things worse
Lol
Joking aside though, its good that Bowyer and Truex didn't have their careers sink because of this. Waltrip was the biggest loser out of this whole deal
I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often in NASCAR. It sometimes happens in F1 and it helps kill the sport. F1 has the infamous "team orders" that favors one driver. It can't help but sow discord with the other one. It was apparent that the driver pitting under green was pissed off. Who wouldn't be?
I'd rather still have MWR around than have seen 5 Gibbs cars for a while.
The fact that they told Vickers to pit is completely up to them, its their car after all - I don't understand why they felt like they needed to lie about it. Clint spinning intentionally couldve caused other cars to get involved and (i realise it wasn't a fast track.. But) what if someone else got hurt? Did much ever come of the Penske - Front Row moment?
Anyway, hope you're good and staying safe.
What's wrong with teams working together?
Why is this remembered, but Menard’s intentional spin a year earlier to help Harvick isn’t?
I'm going to have a video about that at some point as well
I wish you would have included Bowyer calling Michael Waltrip the worst driver in NASCAR while racing at Bristol the previous year.
I love Michael Waltrip 💗 I'm Michael's biggest fan ❤️
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