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Dyno Shootout, 2011 ZX10r vs 2010 BMW S1000rr
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2010
- 2010 and 2011 ZX10r's dyno tested against a 2010 BMW S1000rr on the same day on the same dyno. All bikes were 100% mechanically stock. The 2011 ZX10r may have be limited by low km electronics. We just ran the bikes and this is what we got.
You do realize the 2011 zx10-r makes more horsepower than the bmw...stock. Also, the U.S. version zx10-r is limited, a simple ECU flash brings the bike to it's original settings. The production s1000rr came out in 2010, so saying it's taken 5 years is inaccurate, it took Kawasaki one year to top the BMW... one year. lol.
K-Power > M-Junk. Let's bow down to our one and only King: ZX-10R :))))
please dont reproduce
Just ignore the haters. Your videos are cool. You can't please everyone. Like you said, you are not a journalist and you are not pro testers, so in my opinion what we see here is more than enough. If people want accuracy, go to an official source or do their own test. :)
yes all dynos are different, so dont look at the peak numbers and look at the differance between the two bike that will give you an idea of the power between the two bike.
comment 1.17
For those who dismiss the pressure available to ram-air systems, I would point out that yes, it’s not a ton of positive pressure, but it’s +3% compared to atmospheric pressure- (+30 millibar)
Any airbox that is NOT actively pressurized, will be running at below atmospheric, in the case of that example ZRX, 25 millibars below atmospheric.
So now we're dealing with a delta of 55 millibars: 5.5% increase in inlet air density. That's looking pretty tempting.
@patersja we also agree the test was not what we wanted. We literally had less than an hour with the bike at our shop after flogging it at the track so we did what would could. Also, the electronics were a challenge and we had no Kawi manual to help us. When we get another bike, we'll run a proper test.
@custommotor we are measuring engine horsepower. The dyno can measure it without knowing the RPM or gear ratio because it's a calculation based on time, mass, speed change, top speed, and environmental variables. We've done hundreds of runs with and without the full electronic hookup and the results don't change. We have done some 2011 Kawi's since then with many more km's on them, and they made about the same HP - with full electronic hookup
@custommotor the dyno doesn't need to know engine speed to calculate HP. Change in wheel speed is all that's needed for the dyno to show HP.
you guys have to understand that one dynomometer to the next is always gonna be different. lots of factors that change hp output. the air temp during the s1000rr is higher but humidex is lower. aswell as elevation from this dyno location is not the same elevation that every dyno is at. their is also different styles of dynos aswell as different correction factors. so if you ever wanna see true increase numbers when doing mods you gotta be on the same dyno with the same atmospheric conditions.
comment 1.4
Resonance effect seems to have little measurable effect on power other than to cause chaos on alternate cylinders and cyl-to-cyl power variation when box pressure is not equal
Effect of cold air on HP is measurable and directly related to air temp
Effect of ram pressure is measurable and has significant effect even at low speeds (by 40-50 mph you may be better off with ram air)
Awesome video! The 2011 ZX10R wont have more HP than my BMW S1000RR, even when it's finally re-released, LOL! Nice effort from Kawasaki but let's see what the 2012 GSXR1K will do....
650ib you’re literally on every ZX10r crying like a little bitch your s1k is trash
@gsxrpik, the BMW was not broken in either. Break-in doesn't change the power very much, a couple hp maybe. Many Mags quote hp at the crank.
For all the guys that want to buy the 2012 s1000rr just be aware the frame gets real hot just a tip and also it vibrates on the hand grips. Thanks
@RedlineMS501 several factors to RWP, two wheels will show a lower number than one wheel, the longer the chain the lower the HP as well. The more moving parts in general will also effect the numbers, I would think someone running one of these machines would know that.
@custommotor It doesnt need to know RPM, because BHP is defined as RPM * Torque. You can use bike RPM and torque or dyno RPM and torque. You dont lose any power in the transfer, so as long as the dyno know its own RPM and shaft torque, you have a correct measurement. That way, you dont have to exactly measure each bike, you only have to calibrate the dyno correctly once and it measures correctly for all bikes or cars you put on it.
@jackka82 the BMW was also right out of the box with less than 600 km's. We now don't think the Kawi was inhibited by the break-in electronics but rather just by the North American ECM.
@zx10racer yeah, we didn't have time to hook up the electonics to get the rpm or the torque. I wish we would have as it would have been more valid.
Good information. Ram air does indeed make a difference at speed. We've simulated it on our dyno with high pressure fans and have seen that it does work. On a 1000cc bike, we've seen gains of about 4 - 5 hp. Having said that, the BMW also uses ram air so my previous comment stands. With both bikes using ram air technology there is no advantage for Kawasaki who I believe came out with it first.
@RedlineMS501 I ment 174whp sorry but the dyno is accurate my friend...its the newest dyno jet and it lost all the horse power to 142whp because of the swoop to the quad i changed the intake which the motor is designed around...at 187mph with the ram air the bikes are making around 190whp, new the k&n is tucked behind the radiator getting no air except the warm air from he header...i dynoed the motor in the zx10 on 3 diff dyno's...all the same results 174 give or take 1 or 2 same as in the quad
comment 1.1
1) airbox volume is 10-20X the engine's displacement
2) the carburetors or throttle-bodies of our engine must seal to an airbox whose volume is large enough that the intake cycle of one cylinder cannot pull its internal pressure down significantly
The idea is that the first cyl should not be able to significantly draw down the mass of air inside the airbox.
@SlayerofFiction, yeah we know that. There are many factors that can skew the results, too many to list however some of them, like the length of a chain from one bike to another, creates such an insignificant difference that is doesn't require noting.
comment 1.2
The 8.5 liter airbox can replenish via its inlet, fed only by atmospheric (or slightly higher) pressure and has 450 degrees to do so. It is depleted by two large suctions of 500cc each, 270 degrees apart (see TL1000S hop-up images for a plot of L-twin intake/exhaust timing)
The short story - to me- appears to be:
not sure how accurate this is. i can't say anything about the zx10r, but i've seen other dyno tests on the s1000rr and they all put out over 182 hp stock. so 167 is definitely an understatement.
comment 1.16
At 120 mph it is 4.5% ahead of a static airbox.So, you run open filters? No negative pressure in the airbox to worry about? Have fun breathing that radiator air- even a modest 20 degree increase in carb air temp will cut
power by 2%. And the ramair setup is still beating you for intake air pressure, above 40-50 mph.
Check out the activity inside the TL1000R's airbox
@calaiscruiser your so right. most people will never come close to using that power. and i love my 04 zx10r
Didnt the gen1 zx10r have more bhp than the other generations? I thought they went off the wall in 04 and have since scaled back?
@Grominey , yes you are right, you correctly identified one of the bikes, it is a 2010....... and the other ZX10 is a 2011.
I reloaded the video, I had made a typo on the first one and it was really bad, so sorry for the double up.
@motoseteo the curve is very similar but Kawi made some changes in the engine so you would think the 2011 would have a little more. Maybe not.
People need to remember these bikes are being dynod at 3600-3800 ft above sea level. There is going to be a loss over bikes tested at lower altitudes.
comment 1.6
Consider this. IF the airbox has completely unrestrictive inlets, it does not matter how small the airbox is. If the engine wants air, and you have a 2 liter airbox (aaaaghh!!!) but there is zero restriction on air entering the airbox, your engine will breathe freely. Air will flow into the airbox as needed.
IF THE AIRBOX HAS A "RESTRICTIVE " INLET - IE: NECESSARY TO CREATE A TUNED RESONANCE AIRBOX- OR A PRESSURIZED AIRBOX-
comment 1.8
So, basically, all bets are off if the airbox is too small. And as far as I can tell, 8.5 liters is way too small. Simply gutting the airbox, opening the inlet hole, and ditching the nice tuned resonance inlet, gained me a few HP across the rev range. I dunno, but getting rid of the science bit in favor of bigger inlet holes (and seeing an improvement) tells me that we have a restrictive airbox.
how the 10 and 11 compare in the midrange....
they should be almost same but if the 11 is restricted should show less power.
comment 1.14
Air pressure in a non-ram-air box , when you're on the gas, will stabilize at some negative value, where rate of air drawn into box = rate of air sucked into engine. The box will be below atmospheric pressure. Here's a ZRX1100 at WOT, at -27 millibars in the airbox (apx 2.7% less power than atmospheric)
@ahmir31 yeah yeah, we know. We had a very limited amount of time with the bike at our shop after we abused it at the track. We didn't have time to do a full hookup.
@LiLJankie no it didn't. The first dyno was out to lunch. We've never seen a ZX10r make any more than 155, stock with slip-ons. The second dyno was probably accurate.
comment 1.10
Sadly, I have no practical experience in this area. Any input is welcome!
I am enlarging the airbox to ~ 10.5 liters. Hopefully this is large enough that the resonant benefit will outweigh the benefit of just having a big hole into the airbox- it may not be. we will see. Others have had good results by simply putting big K&N filters atop the throttle bodies- again suggesting that the airbx is too small to be of much benefit.
comment 1.12
I want to improve my TL's ability to hold its torque out past 8000 RPM (which is where it currently begins to fall off pretty steeply). Shorter throttle bodies, and a larger airbox (10.5 liters) should help. I plan to TRY tuning the airbox to resonate at 720 degrees around 9000 rpm, apx 75 Hz. This requires a 6cm diameter duct, 9cm long, or 7 cm dia x 13cm or 8 cm dia x 18 (too long)
a 70mm inlet is 1.8x as large as a single throttle body. Is it enough? Who knows.
Best liter bikes on the market, both are amazing and both can easily achieve 200whp with bolt on parts.
doubt it
What's the deal with kawis?heard there wee some problems.I'm considering a zx10 or r1.
@danthemanzizle it is near impossible to replicate exact conditions that can have an effect on a dyno run. Most dynos will have a 10-20rwhp difference
Hum, Just dyno tuned a 2011 zx10r with a M4 slip on, stock dirty ass air filter, Bazzaz ZFI, and a custom flashed ecu. Put down 182 whp to the tire on 91 oct at 3800 foot elevation.
@k0nn0r Yes, if you look at the science hp is the rate of work done! So its simply the rate at which the wheel is accelerated. aka Velocity multiplied by the Acceleration at that moment >.
@gsxrpik just say'in, they probably want to sell magazines which low numbers don't do.
Didn't expect that out come.. !!
So, basically the zx10 is more powerfull than the s1000rr but the ecu is limiting it's power? Is that it?
@cyblur
You had those 750cc 2-strokes that hauled arse, bring 'em back. I wanna ride a kawasaki h2 or suzuki gt750!
regardless of the relatively low numbers shown here the bikes are all not significantly far apart.. I have seen vids of dyno runs for both 2011 ZX-10R and S1000RR making over the 180's rwhp. To me the dyno here is under rating these bikes. My brothers 2004 zx10r makes over 160rwhp, only mods a full exhaust system. Dyno runs don't mean anything as 9/10 riders will never get close to using the bikes full potential. Besides anyone can go fast in a straight line.. its everything else that matters!
comment 1.9
At 8.5 liters with a 31 sq cm inlet port, 6 cm in length, the OEM airbox resonates at ~ 95 Hz. This suggests to me that Suzuki resonates every 360 degrees at ~ 5700 RPM, which would be exactly where you'd design it to fight a flat spot that would occur before the engine comes on the cam. For the life of me I can't imagine why you'd resonate at 360 degrees, when 720 degrees is more in synch with our motor.
How is this dyno even valid if the computer didn't know either of the engine speeds? engine rpm was at 0 for the runs.
Everyone fighting over dyno horsepower numbers, but does any of you know that dyno jet software does not give true horsepower readings. it gives you a higher horsepower readings than at the wheel.
@RedlineMS501 So, what are you measuring then? You should be measuring engine horsepower. The way you measuring it seems to be hp at a certain road speed which seems pointless because the bikes have different gear ratios in the transmission and different sprockets(final drive). For this to have validity you should use engine horsepower which requires engine rpm, gear ratio, wheel speed, etc. in STP format. This dyno run proves nothing.
This is an excellent dyno vid, thanks guys
Brocks Performance has explained the reason for the power dropping off early. Check out his channel and look for the vid that does the comparison with the Guhl ECU flash.
comment 1.7
THEN AIRBOX VOLUME BECOMES CRITICALLY IMPORTANT! why? Because air intake by the engine draws down the pressure in the airbox.
Also, the airbox provides a cold air supply and enables ram air at high speeds.
The thing that interest me and amazes me is that the bmw has so much midrange on the kawa....
if you see a video of brocks performance the gsxr K9 has almost the same as bmw but lost on top.
that kawa cant be so far behind...
@RedlineMS501 ....and also had the rpm torgue and air fuel reading;)....
@gsxrpik that's right, they probably knew exactly what they were doing. You have to really know what you're doing to manipulate the dyno results to inflate the numbers.
@calaiscruiser once you get up to this calibre of bike, most riders wont use nearly all of the power, however consumers can be picky and if you show them that one bike performs slightly better than the other bike in its class, people are going to want the better one. I for one might still get the zx10r one day just because I love my 250r so much.
hmm, this seems like very low numbers! In every magazine in Europe the BMW for example has about 200 horse on the crank thus giving around 180-183 real real wheel- horses.
How come cycle world dyno'd a 2011 with a two brothers slip on and a custom map on a pc3 and got 188 hp? and they said it gave it 17 more hp than stock. so ur numbers should be around 171hp...right...just sayin the biggest motorcycle magazine probably did it right.
Im pretty sure the S1kRR can do over 200rwhp if moded.
IS THE ECU FLASHED IN THE 2011 ZX10
The dynno corrects for that. It knows we were at 3600 above sea level and corrects for it.
comment 1.5
Tuned effect of airbox has harmonics which can also help or disturb the engine- just like an off-song expansion chamber
I am not at all sold on the benefit of resonance in the airbox. Other than to combat a specific dip at certain RPN. exactly like a boost bottle.
I purchased these SAE papers which were very interesting, regarding airbox design.
sae 2002-01-3318
sae 2003-01-1644
sae 2006-01-3653
didn't Kawasaki advertise that the 2011 ZX-10R had 200hp?
You guys do realize that the US version of the Kwak 10R is neutered, right? The electronics remove about 22HP (from reports). HP is not the king though, it's HP+Handling and I still think the CBR1000RR is the REAL Roadracing King. Not the Yammy, Not the Kwak, not the Zook and not the Bimmer.
@ibsabur it's just about BMW doesnt pass EPA limits in US, if you get unrestricted ECU and exhaust on ZX, it will have more HP than BMW, not to mention all those rumors about poor BMW quality
comment 1.11
I suspect that the TL's ram air system is actually pretty effective- based on two things- my bike is suspiciously fast for a motor that only dynoes at 117 HP (losing badly to my buddy's 134 HP R1 at low speeds but doing much better at higher speeds. hmmmm. ) and the top speeds clocked by TL1000S in stock trim (167 mph) seem kind of high for a bike that dynoed regularly at 113 Hp.
4Gen 1:20 and S1K 2:30. 4Gen looks a little smaller.
remember when motorcycles didnt really use electronics for anything. you had a starter, and lights.
Regarding the comment of the Ninja.
The Kawasaki was especial designed and fuel mapping set up for the Ram Air to be pressurized to have the machines full potential be realized,
Eg. see long comment below.....
Why you put the smooting to 5 ?
Kawi's are far limited from the factory . I'm not hating and I do like the bmw , but also know what a uncorked zx10r is capable of when delimited ....
I have a 2011 ZX10R with a Guhl Motors ECU flash and my bike Dyno'd 169 HP to the wheel @ 2100 ft above sea level. (Vegas)
@dbtrackz33 what part of what i said was anything about twisties or twisting the throttle on the highway?
but to the part of the comment that was even relevant to what i said... it was not a advertisement, it was an indipendant magazine company doing a complete review on the zx10. they probably actualy broke the bike in properly, and set up the dyno properly and dyno'd the bike right. is what im saying. they where not bias nor did they have a reason to be bias. thanks...noob.
hey isnt that a 2010 zx10r? i own a 2011 zx10r abs, and it looks nothing like that 1...
All the bikes today use a type of ram air so the Kawi advantage is gone. I've ridden both bike at the track and on the street and I actually prefer the ZX10r. For me it just feels better. The power difference is really a non issue.
Good info KonnoR
it would be only fair if full power was against full power wouldnt it ? not a freakin restrictet model...so, how come there isnt a dyno video on youtube of the full stock, european zx10r ?...would love to see that video :)
@Tommy12GaugeS1000RR australia?
iv got a 2004 zx10r 30000 miles full exhaust power commander filter and it made 173 bhp whats going on here why the shit bhp I thought they were close to 200 bhp
no way not even close 04-05 makes 160whp at most with full system, ecu, filter when you compare and average all available data factoring for mods of course.
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@jackka82 Look the horse is so close it's going to depend on the rider on the street and IF they are willing to push it. Also I dyno test Engines bro and you guyz need to have more control over your ambient test cell conditions NOTE: Humidity and air temp. Just saying but still impressive.
Great video, thanks for posting!!
hey, if any of you folks want proof just log on to akrapovic's site and they have their dyno figures. the bmw does actually produce more peak
@calaiscruiser Elevation makes a big difference! If you're at sea level expect allot more ponies the up in the alps (just an example, P.S. too lazy to find out where these guys are at) In there set conditions the S1kRR has more power, all they're trying to prove.
I have an old CBR954 with maybe, on a good day, 135hp at the wheel. I rarely need all of the power it has. I'm not about to tell others what they do and do not need but at this level of output, it's just bragging rights.
@motoseteo it's all in the electronics. Looks like Kawi dumbed it down.
my 07 zx10 bone stock besides akro bolt ons made 178whp....?? now the engine is in my banshee and it only makes 142 on the same dyno lol
Have you ever ridden a ZX9R, well dont think so......ZX kicked the BMW'S Butt. Only think added was a performance pipe and a proper carb tune to the ZX.....Guess why I rode him away was because he was limiting his bike the whole time and maybe a bit over eager to show off his new toy....Shows you experience goes a long way. Anyway I have diced against a lot of these new Pocket rockets, especially 1000 GSXR'S, CBR'S and R1......
Redline was indeed contracted by BMW to create this video.
No better way to defame your competition than to release an "independent" review that is claiming negative facts.
comment 1.15
Now, below, here's a ram air fed ZX9R at WOT- even by 60 mph it has +5 millibars of positive pressure, instead of -25 millibars.
So at 60 mph it has ~ 3% power boost over a non-ramair motor. Not a lot, sure, but add 3% onto a 120 HP motor and you have
3.6 free HP. At 100 MPH you have 4% power increase over the non ramair box. The temptation is to scoff at the measly 10 millibars of positive pressure; instead, contrast it to the *negative* pressure in a non-ramair box.
@wellshii I hear you homie and hope you ok from the wreck I have a pic on the 06 that is stretched with nos and that is the one on my page and I drag it and it runs 8.90s the 09 is fun too but don't ever think I will get used to the moto gp sound, my heart is at the drag strip not on the road just seem too many ppl getting hit by cars and wrecking out, I use the 09 just to cruise around town with the wife
stock euro version s1000rr makes 183 rwhp, wtf up with that in america? environmental restrictions?
My 08 zx10r put down 170whp after ecu flash work. Makes me wonder if I should bother upgrading
That's a bit high for the year when averaging all dyno info and cosidering modification for the bike 160-165 at most is average range
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet lol
James H my 04/05 zx10 made 170 bhp too with power commander filter and full system and iv got divvies on here calling me full of shit why would I lie what reason would I say it I'm 40 years old I'm a bit old for all these kiddies on here I believe you mate because iv got similar print out I was shocked at how low these figures were when they say 198bhp at crank that should be 180bhp my zx10r with just a slip on made 161bwhp iv had full system power commander and filter and tune and hot 172. Something
s1000rr is the strongest bike out there. Its a little stronger at the top end but -more important- clearly stronger in the mid
You are correct!
@RedlineMS501 when you stop and think about it dude, all the magazines are rating this bike over 170hp. are they all lying? and if they where doing it to sell mags...why wouldnt they say "our zx10 put out ONLY 130hp"...id rather read that than just another 170 hp rating. dont get mad at me because i brought it up, you guys are the ones that dyno'd a bike that wasnt even broken in man. im just the messenger.
I will take my chances on the 2011+ zx10r with a ecu flash