VW And Rivian's Deal Is A Good Thing - As Long As Everything Happens As It Should
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- Last week, Rivian and Volkswagen announced a surprise partnership in the form of a new joint venture that will see the pair develop a jointly-owned next-generation platform for software-defined electric vehicles.
If followed through on, the deal will cost Volkswagen an estimated $5 billion, and could change the fortunes of both companies and their respective EV lineups. But while it's good news, here's our take on the deal, a reminder of previous deals we've seen in the industry - and our thoughts on what might happen.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:15 - Specifics of the deal
04:11 - Risks
05:48 - Not a done deal... yet...
06:24 - Why both comapnies NEED This deal
09:16 - This is common in the automotive industry
10:49 - Past EV partnerships
14:06 - How Rivian and Volkswagen's partnership might be different
14:57 - Thanks, and Goodbye!
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Presenter, Script, Audio: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
Camera, Editor, Colorist: M. Horton
Art and Animation: Erin Carlie
Producer: Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
© Transport Evolved LLC, 2024
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Nicely done. As a long-term Gen2 RAV4 EV owner, you laid out the pitfalls of owning one accurately: Toyota does the bare minimum during warranty (or, in many cases, extended warranty) period, but washes its hands -- by quoting un-economical repair prices using Telsa-inflated and Tesla-supplied reman parts -- of owners of the orphan. Fortunately, there has developed some community and experience around the most-common failures on these cars (see myrav4ev forums), primarily around eliminating rotor cooling through "coolant delete" -- as has (finally) Telsla on the Rev U reman units for similar technology Model S repairs -- and affordable DIY fixes for the Gen1 OBC AC input fuse failures, the original cabin heater failures (which take out a HV fuse that's located inside the glued-together DC-DC Converter), the high-failure-rate HV DC contactors, and various other Tesla-centric issues, all of which are shared with the aforementioned early Model S.
The Toyota bits are largely of Toyota durability and in general cause no issues.
On the MB Electric Drive (later: B250e), some of the same issues apply and MB dealers have similarly turned their backs on B250e owners, but the astronomical repair prices quoted there are more in line with what the typical MB owner expects, and while there is some belly-aching on mybclasselectricdrive, less so than with the Toyota owners, who expected better (cheaper) running costs.
RAV4 EV owners now have reasonable DIY-centered fixes and community experience to keep the Tesla bits working . . . for now. The oldest (2012) are now 12 years old and we expect battery cell and module failures to ramp up as the years pile on; there is no interchangeability with Model S modules, so we're still looking for a cost-effective way to replace a module or entire pack on these orphan cars; one could reasonably expect that battery degradation will take most of them off the road, due to lack of a suitable replacement traction battery, or will to create one. There were fewer than 2600 made in total.
I had this exact problem with an out of the blue malfunctioned ABS on a gen 2 Prius.
Hapless business interest in servicing and repair. Hence the cottage industries of battery refurbishing.
@@toyotaprius79 One of the nice things about owning a mass-market car (or anything, really) in the modern age is that community will grow up around it to support it, outside of the dealer channel. The knowledge often becomes available for DIYers to self-support, with the help of the community.
There's been a Merc B-class EV sat in a multi-story car park in Nottingham, in an EV bay, not plugged in, for at least 2 years, possibly more.
Abandoned, alone and very dusty, someone was very much "done" with dealing with it. I hate to think what it would cost if anyone ever wanted to get it back out of the car park...
Rivian need the cash, VW need the software - Also VW have capacity to make cars, maybe a euro built Rivian R2/3 will be a possibility.
It does make perfect sense, stiff competition for Polestar/Volvo/Geeley
But I don't see it helping the tide for more affordable influence in the way the market has headed
@@toyotaprius79good point as neither company is good at chasing cost out of EVs…
Very interesting... Does this help in making the ID Buzz any cheaper or an ID.1 any bit tangible?
For the former, not so sure, for the latter, it makes it more possible.
On the “no such thing as an iron-clad partnership” - both Tesla and Rivian got their initial factories from failed ICE partnerships. Telsa’s Fremont facility had been a joint GM/Toyota “NUMMI” factory, producing both GM and Toyota vehicles; and Rivians’ had been a joint Mitsubishi/Chrysler “Diamond-Star Motors” factory. (Although Chrysler pulled out of that factory many years before Mitsubishi finally closed it.)
Fascinating Mr. Spock , this history lesson portends the future of this attempt at corporate intermingling ?
@@mikewallace8087 Just a mention of what previous similar partnerships have done. Although those both lasted more than a decade.
This is great news for Rivian, they are having cash flow problems but their engineering and styling are excellent. They are making great EV's.
I was excited by this announcement when I first heard it and I'm even more excited now. Thanks for your even-handed analysis.
I think Rivian stands to gain in most of the potential outcome scenarios. I wouldn't be surprised if VW drops out in a few years.
You should have said “1 billion dollars” like Dr Evil 😂 but OTHERWISE 😆 excellent explanation of how those partnerships work - thanks!
I hope we'll get a decent VW westphalia type minivan out of this. That would be a good result and I'd love to see them.
Be prepared to pay some additional money for features that are already installed...:
Because she mentioned:
"software defined vehicle".
A silly example: Imagine there might be a sun roof, you see it could open, but it doesn't. You need to pay for it to make it open...
And there might be a review camera. Pay maybe 500 bucks to use it. And so on...
Pure speculation. Even tho the R3 is not the focus atm the R3 would sell well in europe and having a european partner would be massive.
Rivian’s CEO did say in some other UA-camr’s interview after the R2/R3 launch that the R2/R3 are targeting Europe. While this joint venture seem solely around actual EV “compute” and software resources, not full-platform and/or manufacturing, it would be great if Rivian were to lease some VW manufacturing capability to bring R2/R3 to Europe sooner!
It's good
JVs are notoriously unstable, particularly the 50/50 kind. Such arrangements are usually workable for a single digit number of years, when both parties find reasonable value in them. Most fail early because of the divergent interests of the parties.
Hopefully this will make VW's software better.
God lord, you Chanel is a wonderful place!
Very informative, as always. I appreciate your thoughtful takes regarding developments in the EV world.
A production-related question: Was the audio processed differently for this episode? It may simply be that I was using my headphones instead of my TV, but there was a distracting, almost metallic sounding voice processing that I've never noticed before.
Anyways, long-time viewer. First time commenter. Keep up the incredible work!
We always process the audio separately, but there’s a chance this time it didn’t work right! Thanks!
As you pointed out, this kind of dance has been going on forever. The main thing is that viable new companies like Rivian and established companies like VW both gain an advantage and quality EV development continues.
You mentioned the ID.2 and commented about a twenty thousand euro car, are you sure it isn't a twenty five thousand euro car?
They’re working on the ID1 which is 20,000 euro. We don’t have images of that.
It would be great for everyone if ABRP gains the data from both companies. Any chance that is part of the partnership?
As long as everything happens as it should . As long as everything happens as you want.
Thanks
Most startups have failed…
Lucid and Rivian still have a way to go….
I’m excited and skeptical that VW will actually learn anything from Rivian.
What of VW's deal with Rimac?
I cannot wait I have a 2023 ID four Pro S with all-wheel-drive and needless to say I do not like the software thank goodness for CarPlay however, the connection functionality, both wired and wireless is also buggy. It’s also sad to report that I haven’t had good luck with with both Volkswagen corporate or two of my local dealers. 😢
Perhaps now is the time @atw9913 where you engage empathy and realize that your choice isn’t the same as other people?
@@atw9913That’s a lot of words to say “DON’T TELL ME TO BE NICE, I CAN BE AN ASSHOLE IF I WANT!”
@@atw9913 Privilege? You said someone should just buy a new car when thy own a one year old car, because you have problems with the company. Most people can't afford to just trade-up a car after a year.
You went on a giant rant blaming the purchaser.
@@transportevolved :)
@@atw9913I test drove the Model Y and the ID4 each at least 2 dozen times. I ultimately was turned off by Tesla because of some political alignments that don’t necessarily promote inclusivity, which is important to me my family and my company. And unfortunately, I love Rivian’s. They come with really large price tags and their lease deals were very unattractive.
Nikki, I'm confused why you haven't included VW's difficulties with Cariad as another potential source of pressure pushing VW towards Rivian.
That system is part of VW’s overall system ;)
Wow. 41%
I'm twice your kid's ages and I can /still/ be bribed by my parents into doing chores when I visit.. So all may not be lost.
Glad you are surviving and thriving. I’m 6foot six inches tall, I’d have a hell of a time fiting into a Tesla to sleep.
this seems like a great deal for VW and a delaying tactic for rivian.
More about that 20000 euro car pls. Which company is doing the best to make a car that will be decent EV, cheap enough for the economically underprivileged? Camry's and Accord's are pretty darn good cars and I think you have a hard time saying the average family shouldn't buy one of those instead of an EV. User communities/sneaky work arounds/and battery pack replacements that cost far more than the devalued worth of the vehicle just dont cut it for those of us who have to work really hard to get by.
There is no way Nikki has 2 adult children. Unless she had them in her teens
Nikki here. You are too kind. I am 45 in November...
@@transportevolvedprobably are grooming those kids
Ohh so true and Toyota had have stuck with their relationship with Tesla instead of bailing when they did they could have been a company with a real future instead they now seem almost doomed to bankruptcy
Yeah ok this will last🥱
This deal it's more for the scout brand, for VW cars software driven there is the partnership with xpeng
No it isn't!
Project 2025 cant come soon enough!!!!
doesnt sound like rivian is getting any real money anytime soon. that makes this a super great deal for VW. my daughter in law has an ID4 and the software is finally usable, but it looks very very 1980s.
$1 billion isn’t small….
@@transportevolved not small, with a lot of strings, and its not cash.
@@scottmcshannon6821It is cash. It’s an immediate $1 billion loan. It’s just that the loan will either have to be paid back or will be converted into VW owning some Rivian stock, in a couple years. Rivian gets the cash now, though, just as if they had gotten a loan from a bank.
With up to $4 billion more in future “partnership” investment.
Humorously, the ID.4’s software looking like it’s from the 1980s fits the Rivian R3’s ‘80s hatchback look. :-D
@@AnonymousFreakYT so wVW get all of rivian intellectual property they are giving rivian a loan? this sounds like a great deal for VW and a bad deal for rivian.
@@scottmcshannon6821 Technically, a joint venture would own the intellectual property, granting both companies full access. So yes, the initial side is "VW gains Rivian EV tech," but then any improvements from the VW side get folded back to Rivian.
And Rivian gets $1-5 billion to keep running. If without this, Rivian would have faced financial problems, then this is totally worth it to Rivian.
You can bet your ass if Fisker had been offered this deal three months ago, they would have taken it in a heartbeat. "Sharing our intellectual property" is a far better outcome than bankruptcy.
algorithmalgorithmalgorithmalgorithmalgorithmalgorithm
VW is struggling to break into the US EV market ... investing in Rivian is a good idea ... as is VW reviving the International Harvester / Scout brand in the USA.
International Harvester is a Farmer brand . Historically known for bench seats, no A/C and AM radios.
@mikewallace8087 of course that's not the parts they'll be replicating with IH
@@mikewallace8087IH has also been defunct as a consumer vehicle brand for longer than I’ve been alive. Bench seats, lack of AC, and AM-only radios were downright *NORMAL* when it was discontinued. (Although I’m just barely younger than the last IH pickup, and I do own a cargo trailer made from the bed and rear chassis of an IH pickup that had been my father-in-law’s farm truck. :-D )
Scout barely longer - 1960 to 1980.
@@AnonymousFreakYT oh you're so smart , Moo.
@@mikewallace8087 🐮
Outdated facts rivian lose 39k per vehicle. Updated facts riviam has done retooling to cut cost atleast by 35percent. This not a comment towrds you great video by the way
We actually noted in our coverage that Rivian has made sizable improvements to costs :) and thanks!
@transportevolved oh I heard it I was repeating it again for the bears