Toyota, Mazda and Subaru reveal CRAZY plan to save Japan's car industry
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Toyota, Mazda and Subaru reveal CRAZY plan to save Japan's car industry
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Meanwhile, Japanese automakers apologise for faking safety tests 😂
Wrong it is difficult to follow exactly the test rules and the discrepancies found were certainly not intentional or some cost related issues,,this has nothing to do with misinformation,,a std practice for BEV’s
"Meanwhile, Japanese automakers apologise for faking safety tests AGAIN"
There, fixed that for you.
@@philgooddr.7850 Bollocks, this wasnt for BEVS, it was for a wide range of their ICE output.
was just a minor technicality
@@cxv6367 They are talking about it as such, but that isnt exactly true; it is important to test crash resistance on both sides, as the steering assemblies are different for some countries; and all that changes the behaviour of the other materials in the event of a crash.
Meanwhile: CATL and BYD are optimizing cell production in order to lead to a 50% cell cost reduction at the end of July/beginning of August. 2024...oooh that's this year! 😁
Wonderful
Doesn’t help Americans if there is a 102.5% tariffs on imports.
@mnhsty it doesn't matter when the cars they can sell over there are like a corolla and 10k-15k people will still buy them for double
@@mnhstyI hope that this won't last for long (regarding me I'd end this instantly ...but I have nothing to say) and the US citizens can buy what they want to buy.
@@mnhsty americans can watch the world goes by them and they can stay safely and drive their ICE cars...
My friend worked with the engineers at Toyota Japan and he said they are very very grounded with their traditions and doesn't like changes hence the reason why this will be their doom.
The climate sceptics take the opposite view. They see net zero as a scam designed to remove our freedoms and we need more CO2 for food production. If Toyota as as stupid as you believe, how do you explain the fact that they are making record profits whilst EV manufacturers are losing money hand over fist?
No wonder Japan is still in favor of postal mail, fax machine and "hanko" for everything. 😮
I disagree. Japanese can be very innovative. But I think the current world of politics have fragmented markets and innovation, sadly.
@@oceanwave4502 The people working in the Japanese auto industry better buy a good size piece of land in the countryside and raise some animals starting today.
That's what we called old bamboos can't bend as they will break. 😂😂😂😂
Thanks Sam,
We transitioned the family car fleet to BEVs two years ago. They havent circumscribed our lives in any way and infact enhanced our standard of living. Savings in fuel and running costs alone are now close to $6,000.
The vehicles are comfortable, quiet have good performance and are very easy to drive.
That said I know people who will never switch to EVs voluntarily, they are emotionally wedded to the look feel sounds smells of ICE or are strongly loyal to a particular brand. They will only change when no ICE choices remain.
If there were 15k EVs like in China, most of us would switch.
@@-whackd there's is ev for $15,000 dls here's the options,2017 Used Chevy Bolt Ev,2018 used Kia Niro Ev,Hyundai 2017 used Ioniq Ev.
@@-whackd I don't think money has much to do with it. Around here many people still happily buy ICE BMs Mercs, Lexus etc in large numbers at prices well above EV prices, it is a cultural thing. People like large expensive cars, the larger and more expensive the better.
Throughout history, there have been many occasions of technological advancements. And in every change, people are passionate about their old tech and are reluctant to change to a new tech. In fact, when ICE itself was introduced to the human society, many people were reluctant to adopt ICEs. They preferred to do things using their own hands and feet.
Same here, Both Cars are EV One with 150k on the clock one with 20k. Cost savings now hitting $25,000
The Japanese are not stupid people, I have to wonder if the petroleum industry is financing this lunacy.
it's not a matter of intelligence, it's the culture that is the problem. They are very conservative with too many senior managers harboring outdated ideas. They are still living in the memory of the golden times of the 80s, & thinking Japan can regain those days by continuing to use strategies of the past.
Guaranteed
@@simond7582 The oil industry also wants to live in the 80s hoping they can continue making trillions from petrol sales. Because of EVs California has already seen an appreciable drop in gasoline sales. I would imagine that the Japs could care less if you buy one of their EV or ICE cars. Considering that the profit margin will eventually be larger on EVs, I bet that is the direction they go in once the subsidies stop.
lol no, tats why their government keep launching punitive probe. Their fuel subsidy are getting out of hand.
Japan doesn’t want to be dependent on China for batteries, hence, they push hydrogen.
Lived in Tokyo for 7 years and married to a Japanese woman for 30 years. I’ve seen Japanese management and government in action. Plenty of them are stupid.
Denial is the first stage of grieving. That’s exactly what the Japanese auto industry is going through. The industry is void of leaders with courage and vision.
Japan is not alone of course. Washington is by far the biggest denier of all.
Correction: The "Republicans" are.
De Nile is de Big Ribbah in Egypt. Egyptians don’t mate great
🚘
what’s the difference between Dem and GOP? Not much sunlight between the two frankly. Both are infested with corrupt, incompetent and hubris warmongers.
@@joergmaassAs a right leaning individual, that’s a lie. EVs are the future, the writing is on the wall. Biden put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs, and he’s a Democrat.
Two years ago I was already worried that these car manufacturers were too far behind to catch up. Today, not only are they not keeping up, they're going backwards. Sayonara Japanese auto.
Possibly but I suspect they’re publicly saying this to maintain sales whilst behind the scenes are rushing to catch up. They’re buying Chinese EV platforms in the short term and also badge-engineering other EVs. Part of me hopes they’re screwed because of their arrogance and constant disinformation.
@@markjonz I thought maybe that was the case two years ago, but here we are. They have no factories being built or converted for EVs, no deals with battery manufacturers or parts suppliers for EVs, they're not pushing for more charging stations in Japan, or any other evidence that remotely suggests theyre actively working on anything. Trying to mark up Chinese-made EVs by putting their badge on them isn't fooling anyone and isn't any kind of long or even medium-term strategy. If they were doing that while also building their own factories or something, then sure. But they're not. By the time they come out with their 1st-gen vehicle that costs a lot to build, they have factories and R&D and everything to pay off, and therefore need to charge a heap of money for it, everyone else will be on their second, third or even fourth-gen vehicles that are way better and way cheaper. I just don't see any realistic way out of this pit they've dug for themselves.
@@truhartwood3170 Well said
They know the grid will not handle everyone having an ev. Resale is crap and they know it. Also they still have the Australian, African,South America and the Middle East that can not do full ev. Not everywhere is like Europe.
@@garryrichardson4572 electrical grids around the world are growing at an astounding rate, and almost all of the new generation it is solar and wind. There is now more investment in solar than all other energy sources combined (oil & gas, wind, hydro, nuclear, geothermal, biomass, etc). It will be around 30 years before almost all cars on the road are EVs. That's lots of time to upgrade the grid and install all the chargers needed. Relax.
Let me tell you a story.... A story about watches.
When the quartz movement was invented..... It was offered to Switzerland..... The premier watchmakers of the world. They said what do we need this for???? And they declined.
So then it was offered to Japan..... And to make a long story short Japan took over the watch industry of the world and the Swiss became just a small niche player.
Well Japan's putting blinders on and has forgotten that lesson..... The game is changing. In the future EVs will be simpler, cheaper, and less trouble..... No we're not there yet... But that's where we're going. Get on board or get left behind.
Great observation. Reminds me i need to prepare for changes and think with an open mind.
can there be niche EVs with small ICE engine (sorta like backup generator for house) ?
@@effexon
That's what a hybrid is. I had a Ford Fusion and it was a great car.
I agree with your overall point, but as a watch enthusiast, let me point out that there are plenty of great Swiss quartz movements in non-Japanese brands... Rolex, Breitling, Luminox, Tissot, Swiss Military, Victorinox, etc.
@@PETERJOHN101 And Patec Phillipe, the best of all
It all boils down to profit. A large portion of legacy automotive profits come from car parts. Couple that with a company that is nowhere near ready to electrify and you get this response.
Correct. Need to be realistic and flexible and avoid being stubborn on old technology.
EVs need iess parts because 1 little ding & they write them off & scrap them.
@@archiefleming652 Just plain wrong. That's an uninformed comment that doesn't get reflected in real life.
@@archiefleming652 Utter BS.
@andrewremobs9854 That comment is inorrect , too expensive to fix because no one knows the condition of the battery or the availability of parts, too long a wait
Remember the digital camera will never take off😊 the horse and cart will never be replaced😂
Yes, that is what they describe as " Resist Change"
And it was a bad idea coming down out of the trees.
The digital camera wasn't forced down people's throats, that's the little detail you forget in your comparison. Without massive subsidies and/or bluntly outlawing ICEs, people choose overwhelmingly ICEs. That's the difference, there's no sign of EVs "taking off", most people avoid them as good as they can because they suck.
@@hiram1923 50%+ the Chinese and Asian populations disagree with your perspective, ICE’s have been receiving massive subsidies for many years. Many countries want to clean up the pollution caused by ICE’s belching Black smoke and diesel fumes (killing thousands of their citizens every year), their best answer so far is EV’s.
@@hiram1923 my brother drives a Tesla y and also has a 3 kW solar system on his roof. The electricity company gives him seven cents per kilowatt hour feed in tarrif. Now he puts that power into his car via the 240 V system. It cost him 78cents to drive 100 km whereas my car is a petrol Suzuki grand Vitara that costs me $19 to make the same trip, which would you prefer?
They ve lost it , Nokia, blackberry, kodac and all the rest. All gone now.
They belong in the museum now.
They haven’t lost it. They’ll still produce EVs because there’s an obvious market there, but they’ll still continue to cater for the ICE market. This might come as a shock but there are a shitload of people out there that aren’t interested in being forced by their various Governments to buy a specific car. The East Germans did this with the Trabant during the Cold War, and look how that turned out.
@@binarybob9644 most of them are restricting pollution, not forcing anyone to buy a specific car.
BlackBerry was Canadian and Nokia Finnish …
More like a film camera
Kodak x 100
The ICE automobile engine has been around since about 1860, so has had 168 years of development. Through all that, they are now up to about 20% efficient, with 80% of the fuel burned not going to moving the vehicle and is mostly wasted as heat. Hybrid gasoline-electric engine bump that up to maybe 25% efficient. But pure EV autos are around 90% efficient, with only 10% of their energy not going towards moving the car.
EV motors have like two main parts -- the stationary stator and the rotor, which is the one that moves. One. An ICE engine has dozens, not including needed fuel and exhaust systems, plus a complex and expensive transmission to make it usable for operating at multiple speeds.
These companies think they're going to be able to make improvements to efficiency that haven't already been made over the last 168 years, plus do it at a vastly increased complexity, AND in both a timely manner and in a cost efficient way to compete EVs?!. What color is the sky in the world they live in? The drugs must be good.
Can’t ignore the inefficiency of electricity generation. Still based on petroleum, at least in the US.
Yep
@@mnhsty Not really true. Natural gas is not really considered petroleum, though it is certainly a fossil fuel, and it accounts for about 42% of electricity generation in the US. Number two is renewables at 21%, followed closely by nuclear and coal. Oil burning generation accounts for less than 1% of us electricity. And it is easier to clean up and replace a central generation location thousands to millions of individual vehicles.
That's the biggest point that I make myself The fact that it's easier to clean up the exhaust of a handful of exhaust pipes than millions. Especially people who love that tamper with it.
@@charleshill7184 so absolutely not true, you are being far too polite!
So fixated on the past they can't see the future. They've sealed their own fate.
Their investors are going to jump ship within a few years.
GET BREAL SAMMY!! EV's ARE ONLY 7% OF ALL CARS!!!!!
@@GlennFloyd
You have to look at the drop in growth of ICE car SALES compared to the growth in EV car SALES to see why the legacy automakers are on borrowed time.
@@GlennFloyd Globally, EV's marketshare is more like 15% than 7%... and that's a hell of a lot, achieved in so few years! Even if their sales has slowed, it still is high enough to mean that the last ICE vehicle will come out of an assembly line in less than 10 years!
the future is waiting 4 hours for a charge
Viking! You nailed it with the analogy and fits because their both Japanese so this is really just the attitude of the Japanese to resist change
That is it " Resist Change "
how do german auto industry fare? I didnt see them much better, though they have some models now.... they resisted for years though.
@@effexon Most of German companies dived into BEVs and lost billions of Euros, and now regret it. They're back-peddling like crazy. And Europe is currently discussing ways on how to postpone BEV mandates.
Using fax machine and floppy disk are common in Japan even now
Magnets is the future pared with electrification . Ice is a dying technology
Looks like it!
Iron Horse to Pasture...
Looks like steel and copper SRM and sodium ion battery is the future
They are betting that the EV mandates will be removed as we get closer to the dates.
Namely, because no country is progressing to a power grid that can support it.
The simple truth is that without subsidies few will buy. Government subsidies to automakers is the only reason anybody but Tesla and BYD are making them.
Toyota's hybrid engine only achieves 54 MPG despite being a leader for decades. Unless their new engine can deliver 100+ MPG, I don't see how they can compete with BYD's hybrid technology.
Please stop with the superiority complex, you people are the reason no one likes electric vehicles.
Besides BYD has the battery edge, which is why BYD hybrids have way bigger battery than Toyota's.
@@mingouczjcz3800toyota use 0.91 kwh battery in prius.
Frankly I cant see 100mpg from any vehicle unless it is going down a mountain, that figure is straight out of fantasy land.
I suggest you buy a BYD & see what is like after 3 years if it hasnt fallen apart.
In the old days you worried about burning out the clutch a chinese ev you worry about burning out the whole car.
I think by “blade” Mazda is talking about the “rotor” in a rotary engine. Single and dual rotor
Both Cars are EV One with 150k on the clock one with 20k. Cost savings now hitting $25,000. Funny thing is that as the cost of fuel rises we save more. I love it.
Wait till you try to sell it - DEPRECIATION
Dude you still have to maintenance an EV 😂
@@archiefleming652 he already has 150k on the car how much more depreciation can there still be?
@@EchoAccord Nope. Tyres and washer fluid is all. Getting 45k out of the tyres. Had to replace the windscreen once but that's not maintenance
Good lu ck to you my personal best mileage in a car wad 850000 in a Ford Falcon, original engine & transmission
Classic psychological mistake, continuing to do what is familiar even when you are aware of superior options. Change is difficult but tolerable for most people, but transformation is literally so frightening that the mind recoils from recognizing the necessity
Inability to charge behaviors - that you KNOW are harming you - defines addiction.
I don't need an electric vehicle so, what's your point? You can't force people to like them.
@@EchoAccord No, that is correct! Nobody in the 1920s and later years could force my grandfather to give up his horses and buggy, and buy an automobile which, like you for EVs, he didn't need! He was sure automobiles were a fad that would soon disappear!
But... he finally changed his mind, and bought his first car in 1957, for his 60th birthday!
Horse shit
It hasn’t anything to do with psychology it about using your brains and experience. I can promise you that not many will stand in line for 20 minutes just to be able to charge your car, to then realize the charger doesn’t except the charge so you have to get in line for a new charger, that’s another 10-20 minutes. I am sorry no way I would do that.and that’s just one thing. If you charge at home be sure to have a super effective fire extinguishing system and pray that you have a detached garage. In Norway the number one EV user of the world, don’t allow Ev’s on their EV ferry’s on account of the fire hazard! You can’t make this up😂!
We need to prune the ROT that is Japanese auto, followed by GM and VW
Very Yes!
I still see a growing demand for plug in hybrids.
A new efficient engine designed to work with a medium sized battery would fulfil many peoples needs.
Short journeys as an EV, longer journeys on fuel.
Correct.
This year and perhaps next year, those can be sold at reasonable prices.
But after 25, prices for new and second hand EVs will come down, and, more and more cities become zero emissions zone. So even hybrids become useless and hence worthless.
@@hanswitvliet8188 The big problem in the UK is lack of chargers and ability to charge at home. I see hybrids going on for 20 years
Hybrids loses the BEV advantage of less moving parts. The maintenance might become their main disadvantage.
For that reason, I don’t want one.
But BEV works best when you have home charging, and that means not if you live in an appartment.
Of course, that will change, but too slowly!
@@sargfowler9603The shortage of public chargers is indeed, no doubt, a serious problem, causing the chicken/egg dilemma.
Thankfully, installing high speed DC-chargers could be done very quickly.
Especially old fashioned service station could take advantage in their shops of the required charging times.
I have a 2021 Kia Niro PHEV and love it! Absolutely PHEVs are the way to go. I just laugh at the line up of Teslas trying to charge up to make it the rest of the way home from a long weekend get away trip.
Blowed my mind that these car makers are not moving to electric. Japan in the past was known for its forward, thinking in electronics and technolgy. It's their loss.
The digital minister had to declare war on floppy disks. To get a parcel you need a hanko. Fax still in use.
At least they didn't mention their fake solid state battery that's been ready to come out for over 10 years.
Japanese count on > 50 years old (large numbers), like me, after driving Audi for 35 years, no more. Maybe Mazda, still manual, still normal dials, still normal commands, no complicated S-tronic, no busy tablets, no touch screens...less maintenance and fewer chances that something breaks. What counts for me is driving experience and power when I want to have power, shift down, press gas, take over on mountain road - nothing can replace that feeling, no tablets, no infotainment, no i-google-play, no beeps and pips, no stupid lane departure warnings....just normal natural attention like always used to be.
Renewed energy is not enough it’s insane. How much is it now4% globally, wind and solar is peaking soon in maybe 5-10 years. We need to be realistic.
The irony of this is that history is repeating itself. The same thing happened with the move from hand building of cars to mass production which was largely funded by the oil industry. The EV industry were unable to get the necessary funding or knowledge to make the leap to mass production without moving to internal combustion.
What we are seeing now is the same problem in reverse. The internal combustion industry is unable to finance a complete move to EV and stay solvent through the process nor are they able to find the knowledge for the change and as a result the companies with no history in ICE and no requirement to continue funding a sinking ship through the change are the ones succeeding.
ICE needs a lot of moving parts and legacy automobile manufactures want to save that engine by promoting hybrids. Actually born evs are with very limited moving parts and any new player can build pure ev. Ultimately as battery price reduces by 50%, those traditional automobile manufacturers tring all ways to save ice will go out of business with huge financial debts by stuck up inventory without sales.
Electricity is EVERYWHERE and can be produced from many sources yet it's tough to make the transition to EVs. H2 is nowhere to be had. Maybe put them at airports for planes maybe but cars? Not happening. Japan has no resources to create EVs. They have gone all in on oil exploration that can be extracted from sea oil rigs. Subaru motors are terrible and though the Rotary is cool (I had an Rx7) but if they haven't sorted out fuel consumption and seals since it's introduction in the 1970s, it's not going to happen. They both follow Toyota who is the world producer. They need to suck it up and buy batteries from China if they are going to have a seat at the table.
Japanese people love their tradition and heritage, hence the difficulty changing to new methods such as EV production.
Toyota(the company claiming they created solid state batteries). Subaru(the company with leaking gaskets and car fires). Mazda(the company that released an EV SUV with barely 100 miles).
Toyota the company that releases deadly brakes or failed brakes.
VW the company that faked emission tests.
these contemptuous corporations let the burn!
The Japanese are truly smart. Hopefully the EV bubble bursts soon.
It won’t. That’s the future. When the companies build affordable EVs with a 500 mile range, which is coming in the next 5 years as battery tech improves, the infrastructure develops to fast charge EVs, ICE engines will go bye bye. I live in southern Oregon and in Grants Pass, there are charging stations at the big box stores including a string of Tesla stations at a local market. My friend owns a Bolt and says that aside from tires, he has no maintenance costs. The Chinese are way ahead of everyone in EVs and have EVs for every purpose.
LOL, yeah right, hoping for EV to burst, is that a real strategy?
SkyActiv is seriously impressive. I don't know of any Mazda critics who are ranting against SkyActiv.
EVs have a use, but fuel is what Elon Musk uses for his space rockets. There is a reason that SpaceX doesn't use batteries for launching into orbit.
EVs must advance to cut the umbilical cord
Because cars don't need to escape the earth's atmosphere? SkyActiv is nice but basically insignificant
The Japanese are smart and they follow the main rule in investment - "don't put all of your eggs in one basket". VW and Mercedes - sort of did that - and now they already suffer the consequences.
They can still stay in the game provided they can increase overall fuel economy by something dramatic say by at least 35%, without changing the MRSP. They also need crude oil prices to adjust downwards back to say USD 50 bbl. In this way ICEVs are way more attractive than EVs.
several manufacturers, such as General Motors and Volkswagen, and Chinese manufacturers like NIO, have faced challenges and incurred substantial losses in their aggressive transition to EVs. Balancing innovation with market realities seems to be a smart strategy.
Is it a good idea? The industry you are king of is rapidly changing, and you aren’t part of that change. So as the competition learn and evolve, you sit still. You really think the Japanese can just waltz in years later and just make cutting edge EVs without all the years of research and development and evolution? You are kidding yourself if you think that is possible. It’s akin to a marathon runner waiting until the other runners are 5 kms into the race before starting to run, and expecting to win. Not gonna happen
Crazy plan .... Toyota hybrid business is booming
Pulling from multiple fuel sources is a smart strategy for vehicle. Finding ways to have gas an electric motors work in tandem and then have the personality of the car be adjusted with tuning so that way you can have a performance space hybrid or an economy based hybrid and then build a car around those personalities.
Jeez… I think Sam is losing it a bit here. Settle down mate. Samurai swords, machine guns, Imperial Japan, what on earth is he talking about. This used to be a fairly reasonable channel, well produced, entertaining, but Sam seems to have gone into combat mode with anyone who doesn’t agree with him or raises questions about his views on the future of the automotive industry. His whole demeanour has changed this year. Take a holiday Sam, turn the camera off, you need a break. UA-cam is sucking the life out of you.
Meanwhile Stellantis & Mercedes Benz have shelved plans for a battery gigafactory in Europe. In the UK BYD May sales were less than 600 whilst MG/SAIC registered 7223 so it looks like a mix of ICE, hybrid and BEVs make more business sense. The Japanese companies are far from struggling in the UK with Nissan's Qushqai and Juke both in the Top 10 sellers in May. Overall Mazda, Nissan and Toyota registered 15607 cars in May 2024 so they are still very popular with UK consumers.
SMMC released the real figures a few days ago; 2024 UK sales of BEVS up 17%, ICE sales down 8%; I forget the numbers for Hybrids.
The problem with hybrid is it still have ICE
And ICE have a costly maintainance.
Hybrids are selling much more than BEVs, so they seem to be responding to market demands. And Japanese automakers have been struggling to keep up with too much global demand. Some consumers in North America are waiting 6-8 months for their hybrids.
Global EV sales reached 1.1 million units in April 2024, according to EV research-house, Rho Motion, bringing year-to-date (YTD) sales to 4.3 million, 22% greater than the same period in 2023. Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) represent 64% of units sold so far in 2024, with the remaining 36% Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV).
America is not the World
@@chillfluencer Automakers don't make money selling cheap cars in China, which is why overwhelming majority of Chinese BEV makers are losing money for every car they sell. That is not a game that foreign automakers wish to be dragged into as there is no point in selling cars that lose money. And affluent Chinese consumers will almost never purchase cheap Chinese cars because: (1) they have money; and (2) they don't trust Chinese quality.
In many developed economies, BEVs are not the most favored category, which is why every automaker is re-focusing on ICE and hybrids. Whether it's Toyota, Mercedes, VW/Audi, BMW, GM, or Ford...they all want to be positioned in the segment which has the most traction among customers. Which is why you see many automakers suspending BEV-related investments.
You can buy a BEV off the shelf with massive discounts, no more queuing up to wait for an EV, the virtue signaler / early adopter market is saturated and even the market for leased EV by companies because of their crazy taxpayer funded tax breaks.
When you say Hybrids, are you referring to PHEV (external chargeable battery) or HEV (non-external chargeable such as Toyota Pirius) or both?
The Japanese company is doing really the same thing as what's happening with the American auto industry. They don't believe what the future could be, and they hold on to dear life to petroleum gasoline. It's just worst in the US, because they have the backing of the UAW and their own government. It's their prerogative if they believe that's how to maintain auto industry jobs at the expense of the customers.
I think that 2000km hybrid from China just finished them.
3 japanese NOKIAs. Bravo!
Definition of hybrid vehicle,:
Take the worst parts of ICE car
Combined with worst of EV's,
And enjoy the worst part of both.
How do you arrive at this conclusion? A hybrid uses the battery for city driving and the ICE for motorway driving. To get the worse of both worlds you would need to do some serious re-programming of the ECU to make it drive on the ICE in the city and the battery on the motorway. Why would anyone want to do this?
having spent a bit of time in Japan which includes a Japanese wife.... Japan has a difficult time thinking outside of any box.
So what they saying is that they can make an ICE engine that produces zero gas emissions (water/water vapour is allowed), can travel ~400-500km on a tank and has an 800,000 mile drive train life. The only way they can do that with hydrogen is to carry their own pure air as well as hydrogen, which will leave them with a 100 mile range and no back seats or boot to speak of. Oh and that doesn't address the drive train life. Any carbon based fuel and they need to store all of the emissions in a tank and take it to a recycling store. The problem is people will save themselves that cost and cut the hose, so really it won't be allowed as a pathway.
Oh, the humanity: I just can't see myself driving around on a hot tank of hydrogen.
Honda and Toyota made hydrogen powered cars in California about a decade ago. The RAV4 hydrogen and the clarity FC.
Oh come on! Hydrogen worked out just fine in the Hindenburg... right up til the moment that it didn't.
Please do a show on all the mining heavy machinery that now runs on batteries. Especially the huge trucks that carry 80 or more tonnes. How big are the batteries, how long does a charge last and how long does it take to recharge them. Thanks
Depends on the mine, some Chinese electric mine truck can run indefinitely without changing at high elevation mines.
Basically the empty truck go up hill on battery charge, and the fully loaded truck with heavy ore coming back down can provide so much regen that the truck fully recharge itself by the time it gets back.
@@moss550 Why would they take ore back into the hole . The truck is loaded in the hole and driven out to bring it to rail cars. Sam attracts goof balls .
@@mikewallace8087 Not sure what country maybe Sweden their trucks do exactly what *moss* described.
@@moss550only in very specific cases, 99%of mine's are loaded climbing out empty going back down.
@@moss550bahahaha
Japanese automakers sell more cars in the Chinese market than in the Japanese domestic market, but losing out to Chinese EVs is crucial.
Japan even buy BYD bus for the city bus now
About once a year I visit a third world country. When I look at the “plan” from that perspective it makes a lot of sense. EV success is still in the Toyota plan. They will continue with their “no,no, YES” plan to EVs. Toyota has had a history of getting into a segment fast, so my sense is they will also use this Mazda and Subaru cooperation to gain scale on EVs. Lastly, Detroit is expanding their use of Hybrids. So, while I am a huge fan of EV’s, there is a viable strategy here globally.
standard oil is a huge minor of lithium in Arkansa USA
i THINK PHEV is a good idea
Sam please read this, it's important: calculate how much fresh air an ice engine consumption have during the life time. If it's possible to compare with a human, or something else the people to understand the importance
I Believe the Automotive Industry needs to focus on range extender technology where they produce fully electric power vehicles PHEV with smaller lighter batteries packs. These tiny ICE which could run on multi fuel types by region of the world to produce electric power to recharge the vehicles battery and while the vehicle is in use. The best example was GM’s Volt powertrain.
Global EV sales reached 1.1 million units in April 2024, according to EV research-house, Rho Motion, bringing year-to-date (YTD) sales to 4.3 million, 22% greater than the same period in 2023.
(Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) represent 64% of units sold so far in 2024, with the remaining 36% Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV).)
The most important thing: the electric motor is omnivorous able to use electricity created by any source stored in the battery.
All that carbon neutral fuels and engines require a complete new technology and infrastructure.
Look at California Hydrogen fuel technology and fueling stations "success" to understand the future of all proposals those 3 companies are planning.
The shear mass of Chinese EV industry is unstoppable able by itself to crush ICE industry.
Besides Korean, European, USA automakers decided for themselves BEVs is the way to go.
European, Californian legislation are on the same path.
Temporarily those Japanese companies will still compete in Asia outside China, in Latin America and Africa with their HEVs vs cheap Chinese BEVs until charging infrastructure comes along. Some market for ICE will be in Brazil using ethanol. A while they will manipulate gullible public in the USA not to rush to buy EVs but just several years. Unfortunately large cities in the USA have very unsatisfactory charging infrastructure promoting for several more years HEVs.
Look at the time from 1914 to 1924 when steam cars disappeared and BEVs started to linger badly to disappear by the 1930ties. That historical period was created by power, smoothness of ICE and feeble electrical motors and batteries in leftover EVs, high price of EVs, no electricity outside large cities..
Today after one drives an EV there is no way back. Whenever the charging infrastructure will be available the charging anxiety will disappear.
Remember: India is developing fast and soon will realize they finally need some air to breathe.
Already India is trying to plan their electrification of schooters, motocycles, cars.
In the USA there are game changing electric pickup trucks on sale. To me those vehicles are more important then that miriad of sedans manufactured in China.
That is indeed a better analysis than this whole video. Toyota thinks they can last 10 more years being the last producing ICE. Which might be true. Africa is not ready, latin america probably not aswell, countries like India are so large and rural that it might take years to switch to electricity. Even in Europe, the charging infrastructure is not up to the task, not good enough, not fast enough. Without political wills and laws, electricity is not prevailing for now. And i'm not even talking about prices.
So yes, EVs are probably the future, but it might take longer than enthusiasts think. That is Toyota's bet. By the time they will have to switch, they bet that half the EVs brands will be dead, less competition. And they might think hydrogen is the way to go. They will probably R&D it heavily. It seems silly for now, but tech is progressing not only for EVs, so who know ?
Anyway, i think we still have to find a more suitable energy source than petrol and electricity. Electricity relies on mining, and we already took that path two centuries ago. I don't even mention wind and solar, which were used before the steam energy. Nobody wants to say it, but this world is in deep sh*t when it comes to future energy sources.
@@francoisg.582 Oddly enough both batteries (most clean by comparison) and coal are based in heavy mining.
If the battery chemistry changes fast then recycling might be not feasible to be reused. That might be an environmental catastrophe on par with coal mining. My biggest hope is rare metals bear their name for a reason. So it always will be incentives to shred and reuse batteries. So far the Nickel Metall batteries used in HEVs by Toyota are highly recyclable.
Hydrogen requires expensive infrastructure and nobody wants to pay for it: neither automakers not taxpayers.
My understanding about EV advantage is highly versatile sources of electricity and access to a slow charging plug everywhere, even in developing world at least in the cities.
Easy accessible petroleum is going to be scarce in 50 years but coal, difficult to extract Petroleum (sand tars in Canada and very heavy tars in Venezuela) are abundant. To make gasoline and Diesel fuel is very difficult/expensive from the latter two sources but to burn them in special high temperature stoves to create heat to make steam for turbines and create electricity is easy. The latter might be cleaner than burning gasoline in the cities. The truth is China and India use lots of coal to create electricity. That electricity is used for manufacturing of all goods the rest of the world is using.
As long as we consume and waste a lot in the West those 2 countries cannot keep up with manufacturing without a lot of electricity which comes from coal since other sources simply cannot keep up with demand.
For now EVs don't look like the solution but I believe they will become a solution if batteries would last 15-20 years and get recycled. The car batteries are so powerful that their recycling is usage in home energy storage combines with solar panels since when batteries cannot charge/discharge fast for cars they still can hold lots of energy as storage.
With trends in battery development moving in the direction of cheaper and more powerful, I don't see how this strategy is a winner. In the US the main thing holding back EVs is price, range anxiety and tariffs. Once batteries become cheaper and the charging infrastructure is in place there is no logic to continiuing with ICE vehicles. Should these companies insist in taking this path they will be overwhelmed by more affordable and better Chinese EVs. I can only imagine where battery technology will be in a couple of years, so who in their right mind would want to invest in an internal combustion engine?
"Falling on the sword." >Fuel cell is fool cell. Lost of face and the inability to accept your fault. Mistakes can made, but pride, how cannot feel shame. That scratching.........
You can’t do major improvements on technology that’s been around for more than 100 years. People have already found the ways that it can been improved. It’s as good as it’s going to get.
Actually Julia, there is still quite a lot that can be done to improve IC engines. Just look at Formula One. They get 1000 hp and an amazing 670 nm of torque from a tiny 1.6 litre V6 turbocharged engine weighing only 150 kg. And that is purely just from the ICE section without the electric section kicking in. And emissions are almost negligible. The same analogy you said about 100 years of ICE also applies to batteries. The worlds first practical battery was produced in 1800. After 224 years of development batteries are nearing their peak according to my son. He has a Masters in Chemical Engineering and was heavily involved in battery technology R&D a few years back.
Well,we only had modern powerful computing power and fluid dynamics software to match for the last 15 years or so out of the 100. So yeah, a lot can still be done but not only are we fast reaching a point of diminishing returns, we are also at cross roads in terms of mobility energy generation logistics and as soon as finances allow, I would be more than happy to join the thousands of households who have kicked reliance on the gas station in the rear end even at the cost of extra hours of travel...
@binarybob9644 I think battery technology has been largely ignored over the past 50 years as evidenced by the ancient 12 volts systems still in use in showroom cars with lead acid presently. Innovation was mostly constrained to toy and appliance makers with rechargeables and its only now when there is an enormous demand to cut costs and increase range that we have mega corporations talking the talk and walking it with billions in investment in the sector with 1000 Kms range per charge cars already 6 months away instead of 6 years! So I beg to differ on the battery peaking theory....
@@binarybob9644 Lithium ion batteries are another product altogether, so the clock restarts when they were in production. Kind of like "cars" restarted when the modern EV became available.
@@juliahello6673 Hmm….. sorry but no, I don’t think that’s the correct way of looking at it Julia. A battery is a battery no matter what the chemistry is, it’s an electrical storage unit and the first proper battery was released in 1800. As for EVs “restarting” the calendar, they haven’t done that. EVs are an addition to the world fleet, not a replacement. Go to Africa, an enormous continent consisting of 54 countries with a population of 1.4 billion people. There are only 3000 EVs on the whole continent, 80% of the population of sub Saharan Africa cook their meals on an open wood fire every day. There are 40 year old Peugeots, Fiats, Renaults, VW’s, etc, still happily running around everywhere. They make their own parts in tiny workshops. I lived there. The calendar has not “restarted” for those people and never will. Same in most of the Middle East and India, etc.
Blackberry is still around - supplying software to Frunkless VW!!!!
stellantis uses QNX and VW as far as I know only uses GOOGLE automotive
Toyota, Honda and Mazda over estimated their lobbying power in the United States, EU and the 6th largest economy, California. Now they find themselves behind the power curve and are out buying platforms from the likes of GM. We have seen this before with Honda when they dragged their feet on SUVs and launched the "Passport." The largest producer in the world of ICE is Honda, they just happen to sell cars too.
The more complicated you make the internal combustion engines as you chase efficiency, the more expensive they become to repair when they break. This would tend to push more consumers towards EVs.
I thought you were going to talk about the recent press conference with all the Japanese car company CEOs came out to bow and apologize for faking their car safety numbers.
And all the BS disinformation on EVs
Meanwhile, here on the Tesla Promotional Network...
FYI, Toyota will be around long after Lucid, Rivian, Tesla, and Volvo fall out of favor.
We'll see. I am not investing in Toyota though, that's for sure.
Making synthetic fuels from CO2 and water is very challenging due to the low efficiency, I worked in R&D developing electrochemical conversion, it works but it is much harder than H2 from water. CO2 is very stable. It also does not directly make hydrocarbons, you need follow-on reactions to make those. This not from a lack of research. Watch claim of progress as news articles extracted from research papers often miss major issues like catalyst degradation. Fuels are low value products and need to be cheap to make the whole industry viable. I can see it being used in higher value products and maybe certain applications like plastics, chemicals, and military. If fossil fuels are banned, perhaps airlines where weight is a big deal, but the costs are going to be high. It is simply easier to put that electricity into a battery.
Fossil fuels will never be banned, get real. Especially for heavy industry and transport.
I drove a petrol car for the first time after 4 years of bev ownership and found it very primitive noisy and expensive to run
Sounds like a Nokia moment.
Floppy discs and Kodak films and digital cameras.😊
@@achangyw True, I was thinking of the "We are standing on a burning platform" quote.
I would be cautious against betting against Toyota. Year after year decade after decade Toyota has some of the top most reliable long lasting durable cars on the market. Toyota is one of the most well run automobile manufacturers on the planet.
agree with your statement till you said most well run companies
do some research Toyota is rife with corporate infighting and management problems but is the DARLING of JAPAN that LOADS get "swept under the carpet" and most of there reliability is due to not making drive trains with all the modern emissions "tricks" like American brands did
just now Toyota admitted to having falsified emissions testing
read about Toyoda JR when he took over 15 years ago and what he found and that the bureaucracy fought everything they tried
Nokia.... was also have the most durable phone...
I wonder what happened to Nokia
In addressing renewable electricity production, nuclear wind and solar are mentioned . Yet, the most environmentally sound production method HYDRO is ignored. Here in Canada, over 90% of our electricity is produced by HYDRO as we harness the flow of rivers to produce power. The water flow is only temporarily diverted before returning to its normal path. What can be more ecological than that ??
I read that Canada has 60% of its energy generation by HYDRO, 15% Nuclear, 7% renewables , gas 15% and the rest coal. So over 80% is zero carbon well done! Just checking your electricity prices, it ranges from 30 cents per kilowatt-hour for Nunavut and Yukon households paying 13.6 cents per kilowatt-hour. So has your prices of power come down in the last 5 years? I doubt it,
That practice can greatly mess with an ecosystem, since the temporary diversion of half or more of a (small) river's water can drastically alter the ecosystem of the "use to be" river.
that may be a smart move, there may be a trailing, but large, market for excellent ICEs
EVs have their place, but full EV replacement of ICE vehicles is beyond delusional.
Solar power, EV cars, that is what China is heavily investing in, Japan is trying to improve on what they excel in, Africa Infrastructure still behind to support EV cars, a market quite big Japan might be targeting.
African countries in general have low disposable income as compared to Asia and Europe. A lot of the market from Japan is fulfilled by used cars mostly over 100KKms and very cheap prices . TheJapanese must be nuts if they think creating new technologies would cut it as they are already losing ground to cheaper Chinese brand new imports from mostly the same companies handing it to them with EVs elsewhere!
The question is affordability, and China have solve that with EVs and solar panel. Patrol supplies are expensive and it's chain is complex and fugile, whereas electricity can be generated with very simple mechanisms and in hundreds of different ways. I think Africa will adopt EVs massively in the next 10 years, wouldn't be surprised that the adoption will surpassed US if US keep their door close for external competition.
Pistons ,crankshaft's, sparkplugs, gearbox's , is it me but that sounds so old fashioned😂😂
there will be only one Japanese car brand... just a matter of time... and they will be producing EV's in fully automated factories.
EV’s are like smart phones on wheels.
ICE vehicles are like rotary phones powered by gasoline.
So who will win out? Don’t assume that tech will win. I don’t know the answer but I think ev’s like smart phones are optimised to become redundant and thrown away after 3-5 years. Look at what happened to the watch industry. Along came quartz and everyone assumed that mechanical watches were obsolete and many companies went to the wall. Now mechanical watches are coveted and it is the mechanical watch makers that are making profits.
So you mean that you never really own it, have to agree to "Terms and Conditions" that are unreadably complex and can have the performance curtailed any time the manufacturer wants to download a mod or limit and will become a discard every time it needs a repair because throw-away is easier than repair.
Don't overlook the need for government to replace fuel exist with road user fees, already happening in NZ, where they will pay by the km, which means big bro gets to monitor ALL your road activities.
Do you realise how close to you just getting speeding tickets etc mailed to you, based on a download of your cars activity log ?
Pray that full self driving never becomes a thing, because your car will drive you home and not move until your fines are paid.
If you think that's a fantasy, look at how quickly civil liberties got flushed down the funny during COVID.
@@MrScrofulous everything and anything is possible. At the end of the day people will vote with their wallets. Electric cars have to get very cheap (cheaper than ice) and have serviceable batteries that are guaranteed not to catch fire or if they do catch fire that can be put out easily before I would consider buying one.
So ice vehicles last longer? Because smart phones don't have a long life span 😂
@@KK-qi6mt of course.
They will be cheaper soon.
They’re already more efficient, faster, and more fun.
ICE engines will still be being manufactured in 50 years, so this is a solid idea given that there won't be money for ICE R&D by that time, so it's good for them to team up and split the R&D to make those engines better until finally phased out. Anyone who takes a realistic look at the adoption rate of EVs, clean energy, and the lack of electrical grid buildout to prepare for these EVs knows this by now.
Who would be the buyer?
Anyone that still cling to ICE will have higher operational cost.
@@WuJiZhang-wc9mc Maybe in 10 years EVs will finally achieve lower operating costs when the tech is more reliable and volume production is higher. So far, the data has indicated that the opposite is true.
@@theredscourge
Not true at all....
In Asia country like Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philipine, Thailand.... Using BEV is 10% the cost of running ICE.
The cost of every km is 10%.
The maintainance cost is about 5% (no oil change)
the yearly tax is almost free for BEV compared to ICE.
@@WuJiZhang-wc9mc Just because EVs are massively subsidized, your electricity price is massively subsidized, your gas price is heavily taxed, imported gas cars are heavily taxed, and you're using it in a country the size of a small US state, does not mean the true cost of operation is less.
For example, most EV sedans today aren't able to match the low lifetime CO2 impact of an ICE powered SUV until well over 100,000km, and sometimes the battery only lasts a little longer than that, then you're out another $20,000 or more.
Battery tech needs another order of magnitude improvement before EVs can compete favorably with ICE vehicles on fair ground in terms of CO2 impact and cost of operation.
@@theredscourge
"Just because EVs are massively subsidized"
who said subsidized?
"your electricity price is massively subsidized, your gas price is heavily taxed"
That's because the electric company in here is owned by government, unlike in you're country which is capitalist.
"For example, most EV sedans today aren't able to match the low lifetime CO2 impact of an ICE powered SUV until well over 100,000km, and sometimes the battery only lasts a little longer than that, then you're out another $20,000 or more."
This is false statement, the battery is lifetime guarantee, and mine already reached 60,000km without any noticable degredation. You might be talking about Korean brand or American brand car. I'm talking about China car BYD.
"Battery tech needs another order of magnitude improvement before EVs can compete favorably with ICE vehicles on fair ground in terms of CO2 impact and cost of operation."
true, that's why CATL & BYD battery rule!!
They plan on spending a few millions in IC development, and a few hundreds of millions in lobbying around the world. that's the real plan 😅
Never take a knife to a gun fight.
When Tesla first revealed Tesla Roaster in 2012 Japanese automakers were laughing out loud. 20 years later Toyota CEO admitted that " Tesla model Y is a state-of-the- art". Now it is too late for them to survive. The Kodak moment has come.
Throwing money into yesteryear technology is truly suicidal.....
This move will accelerate the Japan's big three's demise....
Japan is going downhill. I cry for you, Japan! 😂
so far two ideas that i a read about sound good but we do not hear about them much more-> 1. Mazda mentioned once the range extender by using small rotary generator with a battery operated motor running the car, eventually Nissan created something pretty much like that but Mazda talked about it for for several years before and hasn't done much about it. 2. Mazda mentioned roadster possibly EV roadster that will replace the mx5 but will have a special robust gearbox that will be coupled with the EV motor to create a sports car enjoyable ride. heard about it once, we do not hear much about it anymore.
There are always holdouts; manufacturers and consumers who will prefer the old technology to the new. People don’t like change. Especially older consumers.
There are underdeveloped countries where gas will is still be king.
It’s surprising that they keep pushing those hydrogen vehicles though.
Toyota Subaru and Mazda combined still sell more cars than any company on earth, mostly Toyota. EVs still aren’t price competitive and pose problems for colder climates, range, road charging, and of course developing poorer nations. But as long as they keep perfecting EV tech and upping their EV game, they’ll be ok to ramp up when needed. The future still looks like mixed energy propulsion for the next 5 years.
You got to wonder if the Japanese Auto industry will go the way of Nokia, living in it's past glory while the competition moves on
Why are singling out Nokia? They are not Japanese.
You don't realize that you are insane when you have lots of company.
Are you talking about Toyota or the posters on this page?
Yes agree japanese car industry is like the last samurai movie mentality
This is insane and will destroy Japan..
Hyperbole much?
Don't worry the US and Japan will buy all of these up😂
Not the U.S. the MAGAts they love coal, gas, and smog!
Well, Toyota’s sale numbers on their hybrid are stellar. The market will always decide. Let’s see how this goes.
This all feels very similar to the steam locomotives industry that failed to respond and even denied the rise of diesel locomotives.
My next car will be ICE. The ICE and infrastructure are at such a high level of refinement. Very low pollution levels combined with reliability and range. Why pretend that using an EV is non-polluting and saving the Earth?
I will never buy an ICE car again. I charge my car from my own solar panels instead of Saudi petrol and my cost of ownership is about half of my previous PHEV. The performance, comfort and silence of EVs is unbeatable.
Not me. I don't like having an umbilical cord between my car and oil companies. I want freedom.
It's amazing how many ICE cars Viking has already owned that had catastrophic failures 😂
Gear box failures, catching fire, multiple engine blow ups (9:40 he can't remember exactly how often his boxer blew up of course, who would...)
🤡
When you have no logical counter to an argument, resort to personal attacks. Big man eh?
The LDS church has 100 billion USD in publicly invested stock assets, Sam
Subaru's boxer engine is more like 50 years old. They have been pretty reliable over that time, but recently they've had a lot of problems. A friend had a ten year old Subaru with less than 100,000 miles... followed factory guidelines for maintenance, but it blew up and left the car nearly worthless. 10 years is a longish time, but many cars last longer than that. And this is unfortunately fairly typical of Subarus, not an anomaly.
The BYD has already broken the efficiency of ICE engine at 2.9 L / 100 km. What else new?
This is because cost of electricity is heigher than other places.
Cost of electricity from Solar+ storage, is still heigher than traditional electricity in most places.
Although cost is comming down.
But for world wide Disruption, the cost of battery need to come down by more than half.
Maybe we need Sodium ion battery for that because it can be much cheeper.
Hi Sam, I suggested on one of the places where members were very down on ev transition that they where of an older generation poisoned by leaded petrol and having learning problems.
I wonder with their fixation on fossil fuels and hydrogen do they have strong ties with the fossil fuel industry?