That's the BEST description I've ever heard anywhere. Very insightful and well thought out. As a many decades metal head you sir are brilliant. Definitely new subscriber 👏👏😁
I kinda see 2 circles to the Venn Diagram, there's metal bands that adopted the glam image (Dokken/Ratt/WASP) The bands that were pop/rock groups with heavy guitars (Bon Jovi/Poison).
A good and accurate history of the era. I was there and will add that MTV made the phenomenon. 1980/81 saw great big concerts going on but corporate MTV really pushed the L.A. look and sound to the top.
Note that GNR still filled stadiums in 1994, despite the success of Grunge -- but it's also up to debate if they ever were a real "Hair Metal" band. Part of their appeal was the sleazy authenticity rock listeners were missing in the late 80s.
@@funnyyellowdog8833 What it was, I think, was that GNR pushed hair metal in a different, harder direction, and they were successful enough to still retain their appeal, and they weren’t as cheesy and dated as the other hair metal bands. Same thing with Bon Jovi. One of the few bands of that era to retain their appeal throughout the 90s and 2000s.
I agree that bands like poison, white lion etc. aren't metal, but people who think bands like w.a.s.p., nitro, etc. aren't metal have metal health issues..
@@planetsabbath you should definitely check 'em out, they're a total kitsch and speed overdose lmao.Michael angelo batio has absolute madman skills on guitar. They have an earlier project with the same members named after the singer, jim gillette, and they released one album. In this project there's a lot more focus on feel and "glam-ness", but still kickass guitar riffs and solos. Some of the songs there kinda suck, but "angel in white" for example...just amazing and kitchy to the max, in a good way.
My personal opinion is that the mainstream hair metal bands fit much better with hard rock or glam rock than with metal. Start playing hair metal as a DJ and if you're looking for other artists to add to it well Alice Cooper, Kiss or even AC/DC fits well enough but any actual metal, outside the most mainstream hits, doesn't really work at all. It's just too different. Plus quite a few bands and artists recorded some hair metal albums but in various ways never did quite fit the scene. Def Leppard and Bon Jovi in particular both remained relevant and popular well after the demise of mainstream hair metal, whilst a portion of GNR's music never did quite fit. Adding to that, "hair metal' is a retrospective term that wasn't really used at the time. These bands were all referred to as simply "metal" during the 80's. Then later the term "hair metal" emerged as a mostly derogatory term, although in more recent times it's just ended up as a description and classification. As for the negative connotations, the genre's association with strip clubs probably goes some way to explaining that. To the extent anyone ever invented a musical genre for strippers, hair metal was it. That reality likely contributed to the tendency of some to not want to be associated with it. For modern bands, Halestorm comes to mind as one that's not hair metal but which is heavily influenced by it, a point they openly acknowledge in interviews. There's a definite influence of it in their music. For these bands in general my view is they're heavy rock with definite metal and pop influences but they're not metal and nor are they pop. I don't agree with the assessment of Motley Crue though. By the late-80's they were arguably the most stereotypical hair metal band of the lot. They had the look, they had the sound, they were mainstream and their lyrics at that point ticked every stereotype of the genre.
It's not your personal opinion because it is now corroborated by myself. It is facts. Also, using the derogatory or joke term hair metal only shows ignorance about the history and the music. It's like one would name rock popular in the 70's as "bell-bottom rock" which would include just about anything.
Hair metal is definitely metal a lot of the bands in the 80’s had the best lead singers guys like Sebastian Bach that had a 7 octave range. Ronnie James Dio said it best when he said “bands from my era had lead singers that could sing and guitarist that could really play guitar.
IIRC Quiet Riot was the first hair metal band to make it big in the US. It was also my first concert and they had this band no one had heard of called "Whitesnake" opening for them, along with Helix. Def Leppard was literally part of the NWOBHM but they turned into a pop band with guitars. But I guess if there can be "pop punk" there can be "pop metal" and having teen girls buy "metal" albums in the 80s created the rising tide that lifted a lot of boats. Saw Bon Jovi open for Ratt. We weren't impressed. We were throwing fireworks at the security guards the whole time they were on. Ratt rocked the house tho. Motley Crue turned into a pop band as a result of the satanic panic and PMRC. Shout at the Devil slapped , but "girls girls girls" and "smokin in the boys room" were meh. I think the toning down of things happened across the board with some groups due to the political environment at the time. A good part of US history is secular people compromising to accommodate the religious and then being told that it still isn't far enough. Van Halen I guess "flirted" with metal on their first album. I had a Van Halen shirt long ago, which has long since disintegrated into dust and it had some of the same swords and skeletons imagery on it that you'd find in metal. You probably can't find one of those shirts now, and if one was in good shape it would be worth a small fortune. My unpopular opinion is that thrash is basically hardcore punk with solos. Which is probably why there's so much "this isn't metal" talk out there as one of the main genres of metal isn't metal (lol) at the end of the day it's really just a marketing term. One of my theories is that the labels wanted to soften some groups a bit so when you were 13 and your parents see the album you brought home, they don't immediately throw it away and ground you lol. They did similar stuff with Rap. The early 80s rappers that were on the radio were laid back. Run DMC did an Aerosmith song. Then 5 or 6 years later it's laced with profanities and killin cops.
@@Dragonette666 You make some good points, it’s nice to hear it coming from someone who was alive during that period because of the firsthand experience. Yeah, when I say Motley Crue is metal, I really only mean their first two albums, and maybe some stuff from Dr Feelgood. I definitely agree that hair metal was just a marketing term so it could be safe with the parents, surprised I didn’t think of that because that definitely explains a lot. It’s a real testament to how metal back then was this evil genre of music and now nobody cares. It’s the same way with punk now too. Thrash I somewhat agree, though I do think it’s still metal, I agree about the hardcore influences tho, and I mean by that logic all thrash could be considered crossover. Though I would argue that only really applies to 80s and some 90s thrash, thrash now is definitely metal, with bands like Vektor
@@planetsabbath here's a bit more perspective. The PMRC was started when one of the Gore's kids came home with a PRINCE album. They freaked out over Prince. When I found that out I was like thank god I wasn't their kid and they found my Venom tapes they would have popped. I know a guy that even in the 90s , he burned all of his metal stuff tapes , cd's etc. And started going to church. Then the church he went to demanded that he tithe 10% to them and they wanted people to being in their paychecks to prove how much they were giving. When he told me that I was like dude get the hell away from them you are in a cult.
I was with you until you called VH glam metal. GnR and Skid Row also werent glam. If you think Skid Row isnt metal I would argue youve never listened to Slave to the Grind album. That album has a lot of heavy songs on it.
Did it have chord progressions and or a melody? Then it was music in any case. Could care less about what others qualify as "Metal". Enjoy the "music" period, and forget the notion of importance of genres. Don't overthink what others like. R I P💀
I was never into those so-called hair metal bands back in the 80s. Once I discovered Metallica, that was more for me. Having said that, I have been listening to a lot of Dokken over the last few months. I didn't appreciate them back then cause I generally lumped them in with a scene I couldn't relate to. They're not metal, but Dokken, particularly the 80s lineup with George Lynch, they rocked, and that in the end is all that matters.
Dokken departs a little from that typical hair metal sound/style. I like them as well. especially Don Dokken's solo work. i think you may enjoy the band Stryper. they have a really unique sound and they're pretty influencial having contributed to the creation of power metal and kickstarted the Japanese power metal scene. they're lumped with the hair genre but mostly they make melodic heavy metal. imagine combining Iron Maiden + Queen + Boston. that's basically them. if you're into heavy stuff the 2015 album is among their heaviest but everything from 2013 to 2018 is jaw dropping🙌 also the singer/guitarist has a duo act with George Lynch called "Sweet & Lynch"
I’ve been saying no to this question for years. I’ve been thinking about this as a topic for my channel too. Poison, Bon Jovi, White Lion, Winger, Kix, Great White, Ratt are not Metal. Ratt stopped being Metal after their first album. Dokken has some metal songs but overall not a metal band. If you do a lot of songs about love and or relationships you’re not Metal.
I was a teenage metalhead during the 80s, and over the decade, i amassed a collection of 1000 + tapes. I have a few comments. The term "Hair Metal" was originally used as a derogatory term. It was used to imply that metal bands were all fluff and no substance. The term caught on with the general public throughout the 90s to mean any meral band from the 80s. The terms speed and thrash were used interchngeable to decribe the faster metal bands (at least in the general Philadelphia aera). They became separate sub genres later. Generally, bands that didn't fit the speed/ trash label were just considered metal. Loverboy was never considered metal of any form during the 80s. They were mostly thought of as a rock band.. i only ever heard them being lumped in with hair metal over the last ten years or so. The power Ballad was the result of the record companies being able to make a profit off them. The albums became formulaic with how the songs were arranged and on what side of the album they would be on. That's why the power ballad is in the same relative location on most albums.
Speed metal predates thrash metal. It's just a confusing genre because most people can't tell the difference between thrash and speed. Speed metal is basically just sped up classic heavy metal, but doesn't have the aggressive, angst, that hardcore punk added to thrash.
One of the issues with the genre was that by the late 80's it had indeed become incredibly formulaic. The metal bands at that point mostly sounded very similar with their mainstream radio-friendly hits. Same sound and a narrow range of subjects lyrically leads to an easy stereotype of the genre.
@@shaun5552 I understand what you're saying. I was bored of thrash metal by the early 90s. I sold all my thrash except Slayer, and Sepultura. The 90s was a more diverse decade for heavy music. I loved the 90s.By the early 2000s I started to like thrash again. I still like thrash now, just not modern thrash. It feels like every thrash band now has the same modern production, and the same sterile guitar tone, and the same clicky drums with no base.I kept up on current metal for 30 years, but since 2010 I started losing interest in all newer metal
@@Grandmastergav86 I would argue most of Alice in Chains and Soundgarden’s early stuff is metal, and this is an unpopular opinion, but I think grunge is an umbrella term for bands from seattle
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Good luck with your channel, looking forward to more of your content!
That's the BEST description I've ever heard anywhere. Very insightful and well thought out.
As a many decades metal head you sir are brilliant.
Definitely new subscriber 👏👏😁
Love the video. In the future please turn the background music down and/or your narration up. Thanks!
Definitely, although the music was as low as I could get it in imovie without muting it entirely
I kinda see 2 circles to the Venn Diagram, there's metal bands that adopted the glam image (Dokken/Ratt/WASP)
The bands that were pop/rock groups with heavy guitars (Bon Jovi/Poison).
A good and accurate history of the era.
I was there and will add that MTV made the phenomenon.
1980/81 saw great big concerts going on but corporate MTV really pushed the L.A. look and sound to the top.
Note that GNR still filled stadiums in 1994, despite the success of Grunge -- but it's also up to debate if they ever were a real "Hair Metal" band. Part of their appeal was the sleazy authenticity rock listeners were missing in the late 80s.
@@funnyyellowdog8833 What it was, I think, was that GNR pushed hair metal in a different, harder direction, and they were successful enough to still retain their appeal, and they weren’t as cheesy and dated as the other hair metal bands.
Same thing with Bon Jovi. One of the few bands of that era to retain their appeal throughout the 90s and 2000s.
I agree that bands like poison, white lion etc. aren't metal, but people who think bands like w.a.s.p., nitro, etc. aren't metal have metal health issues..
@@oxlxo7732 W.a.s.p. is definitely metal, totally forgot about them, and haven’t really heard of nitro
@@planetsabbath you should definitely check 'em out, they're a total kitsch and speed overdose lmao.Michael angelo batio has absolute madman skills on guitar.
They have an earlier project with the same members named after the singer, jim gillette, and they released one album. In this project there's a lot more focus on feel and "glam-ness", but still kickass guitar riffs and solos. Some of the songs there kinda suck, but "angel in white" for example...just amazing and kitchy to the max, in a good way.
@@oxlxo7732 Damn, I totally forgot about MAB! I forgot where he was from
Bands like LA Guns, Dangerous Toys, Dokken will always be better than any Skipknot nonsense
very subjective but i see your point of view
Hair Metal is much closer to classic rock than Metal. The only difference is that the guitars are edgier and there is more melody in the songs
My personal opinion is that the mainstream hair metal bands fit much better with hard rock or glam rock than with metal.
Start playing hair metal as a DJ and if you're looking for other artists to add to it well Alice Cooper, Kiss or even AC/DC fits well enough but any actual metal, outside the most mainstream hits, doesn't really work at all. It's just too different.
Plus quite a few bands and artists recorded some hair metal albums but in various ways never did quite fit the scene. Def Leppard and Bon Jovi in particular both remained relevant and popular well after the demise of mainstream hair metal, whilst a portion of GNR's music never did quite fit.
Adding to that, "hair metal' is a retrospective term that wasn't really used at the time. These bands were all referred to as simply "metal" during the 80's. Then later the term "hair metal" emerged as a mostly derogatory term, although in more recent times it's just ended up as a description and classification.
As for the negative connotations, the genre's association with strip clubs probably goes some way to explaining that. To the extent anyone ever invented a musical genre for strippers, hair metal was it. That reality likely contributed to the tendency of some to not want to be associated with it.
For modern bands, Halestorm comes to mind as one that's not hair metal but which is heavily influenced by it, a point they openly acknowledge in interviews. There's a definite influence of it in their music.
For these bands in general my view is they're heavy rock with definite metal and pop influences but they're not metal and nor are they pop.
I don't agree with the assessment of Motley Crue though. By the late-80's they were arguably the most stereotypical hair metal band of the lot. They had the look, they had the sound, they were mainstream and their lyrics at that point ticked every stereotype of the genre.
It's not your personal opinion because it is now corroborated by myself. It is facts.
Also, using the derogatory or joke term hair metal only shows ignorance about the history and the music. It's like one would name rock popular in the 70's as "bell-bottom rock" which would include just about anything.
In your thumbnail, you have the logo for Canadian death/thrash band Slaughter instead of the hair metal Slaughter.
@@heresyisprogress Huh, didn’t notice, that was just some random photo of hair metal band logos I pulled from google so idk
@@planetsabbath Slaughter from Canada is a really cool band you should check out for sure. Very influential.
So good! 😂😂😂😂 I zorped in THREE MINUTES!!!! 👍👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏
Warlord❤🔥Deliver Us❤🔥1983❤🔥William J Tsamis❤🔥R I P
Hair metal is definitely metal a lot of the bands in the 80’s had the best lead singers guys like Sebastian Bach that had a 7 octave range. Ronnie James Dio said it best when he said “bands from my era had lead singers that could sing and guitarist that could really play guitar.
IIRC Quiet Riot was the first hair metal band to make it big in the US. It was also my first concert and they had this band no one had heard of called "Whitesnake" opening for them, along with Helix.
Def Leppard was literally part of the NWOBHM but they turned into a pop band with guitars. But I guess if there can be "pop punk" there can be "pop metal" and having teen girls buy "metal" albums in the 80s created the rising tide that lifted a lot of boats.
Saw Bon Jovi open for Ratt. We weren't impressed. We were throwing fireworks at the security guards the whole time they were on. Ratt rocked the house tho.
Motley Crue turned into a pop band as a result of the satanic panic and PMRC. Shout at the Devil slapped , but "girls girls girls" and "smokin in the boys room" were meh. I think the toning down of things happened across the board with some groups due to the political environment at the time. A good part of US history is secular people compromising to accommodate the religious and then being told that it still isn't far enough.
Van Halen I guess "flirted" with metal on their first album. I had a Van Halen shirt long ago, which has long since disintegrated into dust and it had some of the same swords and skeletons imagery on it that you'd find in metal. You probably can't find one of those shirts now, and if one was in good shape it would be worth a small fortune.
My unpopular opinion is that thrash is basically hardcore punk with solos. Which is probably why there's so much "this isn't metal" talk out there as one of the main genres of metal isn't metal (lol)
at the end of the day it's really just a marketing term. One of my theories is that the labels wanted to soften some groups a bit so when you were 13 and your parents see the album you brought home, they don't immediately throw it away and ground you lol. They did similar stuff with Rap. The early 80s rappers that were on the radio were laid back. Run DMC did an Aerosmith song. Then 5 or 6 years later it's laced with profanities and killin cops.
@@Dragonette666 You make some good points, it’s nice to hear it coming from someone who was alive during that period because of the firsthand experience.
Yeah, when I say Motley Crue is metal, I really only mean their first two albums, and maybe some stuff from Dr Feelgood. I definitely agree that hair metal was just a marketing term so it could be safe with the parents, surprised I didn’t think of that because that definitely explains a lot. It’s a real testament to how metal back then was this evil genre of music and now nobody cares. It’s the same way with punk now too.
Thrash I somewhat agree, though I do think it’s still metal, I agree about the hardcore influences tho, and I mean by that logic all thrash could be considered crossover. Though I would argue that only really applies to 80s and some 90s thrash, thrash now is definitely metal, with bands like Vektor
@@planetsabbath here's a bit more perspective. The PMRC was started when one of the Gore's kids came home with a PRINCE album. They freaked out over Prince. When I found that out I was like thank god I wasn't their kid and they found my Venom tapes they would have popped.
I know a guy that even in the 90s , he burned all of his metal stuff tapes , cd's etc. And started going to church. Then the church he went to demanded that he tithe 10% to them and they wanted people to being in their paychecks to prove how much they were giving. When he told me that I was like dude get the hell away from them you are in a cult.
I was with you until you called VH glam metal. GnR and Skid Row also werent glam. If you think Skid Row isnt metal I would argue youve never listened to Slave to the Grind album. That album has a lot of heavy songs on it.
Did it have chord progressions and or a melody? Then it was music in any case. Could care less about what others qualify as "Metal". Enjoy the "music" period, and forget the notion of importance of genres. Don't overthink what others like. R I P💀
I was never into those so-called hair metal bands back in the 80s. Once I discovered Metallica, that was more for me. Having said that, I have been listening to a lot of Dokken over the last few months. I didn't appreciate them back then cause I generally lumped them in with a scene I couldn't relate to. They're not metal, but Dokken, particularly the 80s lineup with George Lynch, they rocked, and that in the end is all that matters.
Dokken departs a little from that typical hair metal sound/style. I like them as well. especially Don Dokken's solo work. i think you may enjoy the band Stryper. they have a really unique sound and they're pretty influencial having contributed to the creation of power metal and kickstarted the Japanese power metal scene. they're lumped with the hair genre but mostly they make melodic heavy metal. imagine combining Iron Maiden + Queen + Boston. that's basically them. if you're into heavy stuff the 2015 album is among their heaviest but everything from 2013 to 2018 is jaw dropping🙌 also the singer/guitarist has a duo act with George Lynch called "Sweet & Lynch"
your discord server link has expired or something :O
@@benireges check my latest video, they expire after 7 days
@@planetsabbath you can change that so it never expires
Bro why did you took the Lego videos down 😭
#RipBrickSnap
I’ve been saying no to this question for years. I’ve been thinking about this as a topic for my channel too. Poison, Bon Jovi, White Lion, Winger, Kix, Great White, Ratt are not Metal. Ratt stopped being Metal after their first album. Dokken has some metal songs but overall not a metal band. If you do a lot of songs about love and or relationships you’re not Metal.
Don't other bands, Megadeth, etc. have hair on their heads? Ridiculous you say. Exactly💀R I P
@@jamesvincent1434 Hey man, thanks for the engagement, now my video will be pushed to more people, regardless of your dumb opinion.
I was a teenage metalhead during the 80s, and over the decade, i amassed a collection of 1000 + tapes.
I have a few comments. The term "Hair Metal" was originally used as a derogatory term. It was used to imply that metal bands were all fluff and no substance. The term caught on with the general public throughout the 90s to mean any meral band from the 80s.
The terms speed and thrash were used interchngeable to decribe the faster metal bands (at least in the general Philadelphia aera). They became separate sub genres later.
Generally, bands that didn't fit the speed/ trash label were just considered metal.
Loverboy was never considered metal of any form during the 80s. They were mostly thought of as a rock band.. i only ever heard them being lumped in with hair metal over the last ten years or so.
The power Ballad was the result of the record companies being able to make a profit off them. The albums became formulaic with how the songs were arranged and on what side of the album they would be on. That's why the power ballad is in the same relative location on most albums.
Speed metal predates thrash metal. It's just a confusing genre because most people can't tell the difference between thrash and speed. Speed metal is basically just sped up classic heavy metal, but doesn't have the aggressive, angst, that hardcore punk added to thrash.
One of the issues with the genre was that by the late 80's it had indeed become incredibly formulaic.
The metal bands at that point mostly sounded very similar with their mainstream radio-friendly hits. Same sound and a narrow range of subjects lyrically leads to an easy stereotype of the genre.
@@shaun5552 I understand what you're saying. I was bored of thrash metal by the early 90s. I sold all my thrash except Slayer, and Sepultura. The 90s was a more diverse decade for heavy music. I loved the 90s.By the early 2000s I started to like thrash again. I still like thrash now, just not modern thrash. It feels like every thrash band now has the same modern production, and the same sterile guitar tone, and the same clicky drums with no base.I kept up on current metal for 30 years, but since 2010 I started losing interest in all newer metal
The best Glam metal band ever is Pantera.
No. Most of them are hard rock bands. Certainly there are a few exceptions like WASP, which I consider metal. Twisted Sister also, to a degree.
Yes, personally I don't consider Grunge to be Metal. Don't get me started on "Nu-Metal"....
to me grunge was just radio rock, with Nirvana even trying to rip off Boston.
@@Grandmastergav86 I would argue most of Alice in Chains and Soundgarden’s early stuff is metal, and this is an unpopular opinion, but I think grunge is an umbrella term for bands from seattle
No
No.