Gladden Pappin: Why the American Right loves Viktor Orbán
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
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UnHerd's Freddie Sayers meets Gladden Pappin, president of the Hungarian Institute of International Affairs.
Listen to the podcast: plnk.to/unherd?to=page
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban is due to meet former - and perhaps future - President Trump in Florida next week, a major step for American conservatives in sealing a relationship with the controversial leader. In advance of that meeting, UnHerd's Freddie Sayers was joined in the studio by Gladden Pappin to discuss why the American Right seem so enamoured with Orban's political philosophy. Pappin was at the forefront of the US 'post-liberal' movement and is now advisor to Viktor Orban via the government funded Institute of International Affairs in Hungary.
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// TIMECODES //
00:00 - 00:54 - Introduction
00:54 - 08:47 - Why did Gladden move to Budapest?
08:47 - 16:01 - What is Gladden’s beef with Liberalism
16:01 - 25:44 - Personal freedoms and traditional values in Hungary
25:44 - 38:29 - Media control and democracy In Hungary and the US
38:29 - 47:40 - Ukraine conflict and its implications for the West
47:40 - 48:48 - Conclusion
#UnHerd #ViktorOrban #Hungary
22:52 Freddie , the point here is that a young woman who has a child can’t work as much as the woman who has no children.
I guess Hungary, like most all other countries, birth rates are declining so it makes economic sense to support young mothers.
I don’t really see the logic behind your question here.
Gladden Pappin eloquently addressed the pressing issues of our time, shedding light on Hungary's stance under Orban Viktor's leadership, often finding itself in a solitary position within the EU. The interview was truly outstanding. Thank you and God Bless Hungary.
Great interview indeed, but Orban's isn't leadership, it is plain corruption.
I am not married, and have no children. But I have no problem with People who do have children getting extra help. We have child benefits in the UK. Raising children is expensive and hard work, it should be rewarded. Some of Freddies questions are just incredibly ridiculous.
not at all. it's incomparably cheaper to outsource child production to the developing world and import adults ready to pay taxes with zero effort on the gov't's part. Nothing personal against families, it's just how capitalist/globalist thinking is working
Especially as those children are our future citizens. We fund education, children facilities etc because we want educated and healthy citizens
Freddie does not want to get demonetized by UA-cam, for the greater glory of neutral liberalism.
Yeah well I'm not married and I don't have kids either and I DO have a problem with it. I'm not paying for your or anyone else's damn kids.
Pay for your own stupid kids if you want to have them, commie.
I agree. Children are the future for every nation.
This gay psychologist in Florida suggests (min15) that same sex marriage laws bring gay people into the norms of the family. Same sex marriage strengthens the extended families of the same sex couple and stabilizes the lives of the couple. Many lies are being told about how Florida oppresses gay folks, but the only restrictions employed by the state are officially placing drag shows into the category of erotic shows which children have never been allowed to attend here. Actual porn only showed up in schools lately, and that is now banned in Florida. None of these laws relates to us gay folks at all.
Funny how you never hear about drag queens trying to read to old people at a retirement community.
In addition to being conservative, there is a reason why Hungary is focusing so much on family - it is because it's birth rates are going down. This is happening in other countries as well. Countries that have been using birth control are having less kids.
It is happening in most countries. I think sub Saharan Africa is the only region without falling birthrates. The difference is that at least Hungary is trying to solve the problem. Most western countries just exchange babies for immigrants
@@grannyannie2948Japan is seeing a precipitous drop in their birthrate and have rejected immigration for the most part. China is in the same boat. In fact, their population drop is the fastest in modern history. (Rapid industrialization coupled with their one-child policy over the same time span.) It will be interesting to see how these countries deal with the challenge of a disappearing workforce and a growing elderly cohort.
@@DiamondLil I agree. Japan's birth rate began dropping in 1973 when the pill was still illegal in their country. China's situation is very grim. The one child policy was coupled with a culture that favoured boys. Some demographers say China does not have enough women of childbearing age to produce a viable generation.
My country, Australia did have many programs over the decades, to help families and mothers. But they don't do anything now. Today they just bring in a million people from the third world regularly instead. And I think this is a bigger problem than falling birthrates. For example we used to be famous for affordable housing. Now we have some of the most expensive in the world. Without immigration we would still have plenty of affordable housing without even building more housing. But worst of all is the death of social cohesion and trust. And the increase in crime.
EXACTLY....have read much about this worldwide problem!
what's happened is not liberalism's recent excesses... it is a departure from liberalism. Let's be clear about that.
Classical Liberalism is not the problem. Progressive ideology is the problem, because it is the least liberal thing going today in the West.
I love Freddie's pushback; he is maturing into a wonderful interviewer.
pushback?
The only pushback Freddie does is when he’s a bottom.
@@sirhumphreyappleby6498
Well, that's something these days. 😅
yeh I can imagine him still doing this in like 40 years from now and yet so much more experienced!
Oh please God, more G. Pappin! He is excellent.
Why do people see things in terms of left and right? Seems so pointless and divisive.
That’s how we are controlled, so that we fight each other, while the deep state takes over everything, and brings in a world government!!
I guess it's because our brain is devided into two different hemispheres. Take a listen to Iain McGilchrist (UK psychiatrist and brain researcher). In his view we really need to use our right hemisphere more.
And what about Soros and his intervention in Hungary through A4D? Gladden Pappin, quite rightly, kept the discussion at a cold, rationale, first principles level for the western audiance and for the general take aways.
However, in response to the accusations agaist the democratic power of Orban we should mention that he got super majority in parliament from opposition in 2010. Even in opposition between 2002 and 2010 Fidesz was the most popular party in parliament . And now the scandal came out that US baswd Action for Democracy A4D which should promote social welfare as a 501(c)(4) organizations has ILLEGALLY according to Hungary s laws and to US laws financed the campaign of the Hungarian opposition in the 2022 general elections. So is it the case that democracy and rule of law is what the US Democrats, Soros, Ursula VDL call so, or when the people have they say and the wealthy and powerful have to abide by the law?
Let's not forget the activities of the current US Ambassador in Budapest, who is behaving like a political actor. He invites members of the Hungarian judiciary to the embassy, he supports demonstrations, and the embassy distributes a lot of money to the opposition media, and we appear at opposition demonstrations.
No society encapsulates all human deviances.
I just had to log in to comment and say this was amazing! Absolutely wonderful conversation where philosophy and politics fused gracefully, emotions were kept calm, and fascinating insights and ideas shared. I love UnHerd but this was one of the really good ones. Thanks so much to both.
If God exists then the pope is right to say that we should take in the migrants.
But if Nietzsche is right then tribalism, racism and sexism makes perfect sense.
Christianity or fascism.
Which way, western man?
Religious terrorists and liberal atheists are both suicidal in their own way.
@@botidobra6221If God exists then the Pope is right to say that abortion should be illegal, but if Nietzsche is right, abortion should be available to any woman at any time in her pregnancy for any reason. Christianity or fascism. Which way, western man? If God exists then the Pope is right to say that homosexual acts should be avoided as sin, but if Nietzsche is right, homosexual acts should be tolerated and even celebrated. Christianity or fascism. Which way, western man?
My point is that all authoritarians, right leaning and left leaning, believe that the things they value are fundamental and should be enforced by law and the things they abhor are dangerous and should be forbidden. A government that will take children away from their parents if the child wants to be surgically altered to live as the opposite sex and the parents don't agree is not less authoritarian than a government that takes the child away in that situation if the parents do agree to the surgery. The question is do we want authoritarianism itself?
@@botidobra6221 This is a false dichotomy. Also, I doubt that you've actually read Nietzche if you think he was fascist.
@@botidobra6221 about migrants: you cant import the whole of Africa and every other conflict zone over. The result is that even more of the world is going to look like Africa. Sweden and some western european contries are going to learn that the hard way.
Freddie needs to read conflict of visions by Thomas Sowell
why, what makes you say that? It's my favourite book so I'm curious.
oh I see now...
Thomas has plenty of answers. My favourite books.
There’s a lot he needs to read. He combines arrogance and ignorance.
@@jpoeng
Where exactly? Why do many people think an interviewer just needs to ask questions without requesting the interviewer to be more precise or refocus the answer?
Especially the point with regards to gay people, i found really good.
Being gay myself, i am not against conservative values, religion or Orban but the way we have been treated and the past and are, in some cases still being treated today - from forced marriage to being shunned and thrown onto the street by our families to not having any acceptance when forming a relationship - i really would like to know from a conservative politician what his stance on these issues is before throwing my support behind him.
Thank you for letting him speak and make his case. Too much political discussion amounts to one side simply dismissing those who disagree with them as unworthy of a hearing. In the US, National Public Radio makes it a policy to only allow progressives to speak on any topic. Then the progressive person proceeds to tell them what non-progressives are really up to and why they are evil and/or stupid. Not once have I ever heard them allow non-progressives to make their case for themselves. Every progressive policy position is advocated for, and any opposition to that position is dismissed out of hand as not worth hearing. It is a counterproductive approach for progressives to take: John Stuart Mill said it best:
“He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.”
Freddie asks him what liberalism gets wrong and Pappin responds by saying that the liberals' goal is to become ever more unbound from the restrictions of nature and community. The issue I have with him is how he and other conservatives define these restrictions. I suspect, for example, that he would consider homosexuality as sitting outside these restrictions when it is clear, from a scientific point of view, that homosexuality does have an evolutionary purpose. The problem with many conservatives is that they confuse their personal or religious values as being akin to the natural order of things, but with nothing more than their personal faith or conviction to support it.
The evolutionary role was to provide resources for the children of other family members, nieces and nephews. In my country I get the feeling the majority are fed up. They are sick to death of alternative lifestyles on their television and in their cinamas. Most of all they want it out of schools and well away from their children. I think the majority would vote for a cultural push of the majority position on this subject.
Great conversation. Thanks for your courage and civility.
In regards to subsidizing children and family. It seems that the government in Hungry has made a call that they wish to pursue the goal of having more children among the population of native Hungarians. Other western governments seem to prefer immigration. When governments set goals like that, it's up to the people to decide whether or not they wish to take advantage of those initiatives.
It's no different in other aspects of life, education, healthcare, subsidized industry and agriculture, ect.
If someone feels left out because of the decisions they personally make, that's just part in parcel of living with governments that socialize aspects of public life.
Yep, simple.
Hungary, not Hungry
One of your best performances as an interviewer 👏
It was pretty poor, actually.
Freddie has an agenda and wants to push it. Heaven forbid his side loses any power. Now that the looney left has gone too far, Freddie is all for “moderation”. When the left was taking over every university in the West, that was AOK with Freddie.
Fantastic performance by Freddie. My main takeaway from Pappin was something like, "Turnabout is fair play." He felt he was losing the culture war in the U.S. so he decided to defect to Hungary where he could use government in service of his conservative vision. Freddie asked all the right questions I liked that he repeatedly pushed Pappin on the gay issue.
We all project on to others what we ourselves would do. Now we know you are a user and think Pappin is too. I'm an expat in Hungary for 26 years - yeah, cut out when billybob clinton was reelected. I saw the writingon the wall then. Hungary is a great place to live. I was depressed all my life in the US. Now that I'm living stress free the depression is gone. I'm so glad to be out of that toxic environment.
@@Isadorka1 Thanks for sharing!
I really enjoyed Mr Pappin, so calm, intelligent talk. I am glad he loves living in my birth country!
Some comments of the interviewer made me feel like commenting here! If it is a government policy to help families, how can it be translated in a way that it is penalising people who have no children. We cant think that way, so a government can never promote and help a certain group then? Also, it is an economical decision that we have a future generation to carry on, paying pensions for instance and for an even longer term to have a small nation to survive.
Regarding media, that is very much true, we finally have a 50-50 media which bothers the (only in word) liberal world. And what is liberal, that is the main question. As a post communist country for us liberal means, sovereignty, freedom of religion, speech, gathering, free media that either side can express their views freely. We have that, a conservative government can offer these while many liberal countries don't. Today's liberlism is something very different, but not about freedom.
Regarding the moral flaw of conservatives. They set the moral rules that's why if they make 1 percent mistake they have to leave their position and there are consequences. While the other side can do 100 percent wrong, but still can stay with no consequences. Because they have no moral rules. The issue is not that conservatives are more flawed, they are just not allowed to be.
This leads to these people who left. One of them was gay, how ridiculous that he had to leave because the so called liberals laughed, pushed him, there were memes about him being gay, no acceptance at all. His fault was that he went to a gay party in lock-down, nothing to do with being gay, and who cares? None of the conservatives cared what his sexual life is like, he was extremely smart politician. But again, because you set rules you are not allowed to live differently, even though in a smaller scale a parent sets rules to his children still they can live differently.
The president who left is a long story but she wasn't flawed at all either. She is an absolutely moral woman, she signed a pardon for someone who she thought was innocent. She had to resign as she made a mistake but not living a flawed life at all!
Regarding gay people, they are free as well. The government only not support to bring these to schools and young children. And gay marriage is not supported, which is arguable for me but many conservative voters wouldn't support and government is for the nation. This is democracy. In overall Hungary is more free these days than many other countries.
Opening to East and West is historical, we are in the middle and through history this was our life, constant fights, battles. We have to create a bridge and be in peace all around, can't block ourselves, we know what it is like....
I wouldn't say love, it's more like eh. Conservatives are closer to the new president of Argentina than Hungary. Just look how conservatives greeted the president's from el Salvador and Argentina at CPAC.
There were likely a few actual conservatives at CPAC, but I’m not sure how you would pick them out from the nationalist, populists, and starry eyed Trump worshippers in order to come to that conclusion.
Why are you confusing authoritarian queer Marxism with liberalism?
Because the two have fused.
What Yoram Hazonyi's talk on UnHerd and you will understand why. Liberalism have paved the way to the wokism we have today, what else would have?
@@jozsefnemeth935 Marxist subversion. Marxist said capitalism would collapse but it didn't. So they have to destroy our society by any means necessary to bring forth the socialist Utopia.
„Marriage according to nature“.
Gotta let that sink in.
I know, right? Laughable
Yeah, sure is funny isn't it? Take it up with the Maker - His laws and Hungary is a Christian country. Go make a man have a baby. I'll watch.
23:48 His argument here seems very flawed. A LOT of people do not want children.
The problem here is the student loans. There’s a purported societal benefit to removing economic obstacles to child birth. I’m not opposed to that, but I’m not sure linking it specifically to student loans is a great idea. I’d rather flip it around and give women who have raised children to school age financial aid for education or job training or other career help so they could then choose to enter the workforce with less penalty. Fresh and applicable skills would better, IMO.
I may have missed it, but it's of interest that Pappi is a tribal Native American.
Excellent presentation 👏 and program
I have to say, Pappin's blanket statement (at about 23:30) "People want to have families, people want to get married, it's a part of human nature". Wow..His level of confidence, I must say is impressive. It has not at all been my experience that this is a want of all people. In fact , it seems particularly untrue in the 21st century, (there may have been a slight uptick) but overall, it seems to me that people wanting families has certainly not been the direction across the board, since the various counterculture movements of the 60's.
You can't simply correct the excesses, because this is no longer a philosophical debate built on the bones of Freddy's Christian ancestors that both sides sort of agree on. There is a sort of fundamental transformation that is more like a religion than a philosophy. The speaker talks of Aristotelian views, which indeed is the West’s philosophy, and his emphasis on particulars leaving Christianity to fill in the universals made for a complete world view with no chaos. Yet with the rejection of Christianity there are no common ground universal truths on which for a liberal and conservative to have any sort of common ground for meaning. Chaos is all that waits because there are no universals in this brave new world. You cant come together and say for example that man should not harm man, when your speaking with a person who doesn't even accept your definition of what a man even is.
Thank you very much, Freddie, for also asking about the place of gay people inside an envisioned world of conservative values.
I really find it mature of interviewers, that our issues are today also taken into consideration and no longer disregarded as unimportant or non-existant as they often were in the past.
Interesting interview.
Off topic.....but here goes. Why Does the American Right want Accountability for Pharma when they Fought So Hard to (de)Regulate This Industry?
They have a foot in both camps!!
@@REwing....oh you mean hypocrisy? lol Let's call it buyers remorse.
@presterjohn1697 - don’t be foolish. The uniparty makes these decisions, not the voting base. Follow the money.
@@sirhumphreyappleby6498 Lol. You gotta be kidding.
The "entire" Right.....which includes piss-ant voter and political officials b*tch ad nauseam about eliminating regulations so that the market can "do it's thing" without pesky government interference. You can "act" as if that isn't the case but it's a hard fact.
Now that Americans are dropping like ruminants in a midwestern slaughterhouse these unwashed philistines want justice.
They brought it on themselves advocating for policies that benefited corporations over human welfare.
@@sirhumphreyappleby6498 Follow the money? Yeah sure. It's more a case of petit fascist getting decimated by elite fascist.
These woefully ignorant dupes thought they were part of the club and got decimated.
🌿Gladden Pappin, president of the Hungarian Institute of International Affairs🌿
Separation of church and state is one of the things that America was founded on.
The little I know about Victor Orban is that , simply , he is pro Hungarian and conservatives , in general , lean towards patriotic duty and love for one’s country which goes well with Orban’s love for his country。
He also loves to steal an incredible amount of public money. But it is all right because it is used to keep the other politicians out of power through massive amounts of fearmongering propaganda, which is also good. After all, these other politicians would inevitably just ruin his beloved country.
What a great ‘entry’ to catch my curiosity. NZ.
The battle in Europe the populist right vs the elite. The elite would include Davos, WEF, and the E.U. Immigration and net zero are issues that the populist right are fighting bureaucrats over.
Dude is trying to act like Aristotle gives him permission to legislate his moral preferences. 🙄 Still waiting to hear why he thinks ethno-fascist authoritarian imperialist genocide fits his family-oriented world-view. 🙄
Oh surprise, he helps create the outcome he wanted by not helping, then claims credit for “being right all along.” 🙄 4zzh013
Freddie seems overly concerned about having people who live alternative / atypical lifestyles not having to feel uncomfortable by things the government says. Freedom doesn't mean being protected from feeling uncomfortable by the norm. As long as you have the legal right to live how you choose, then it's a non issue in my view. Your feelings are your own problem.
What u term Alternative lifestyles minorities describe as discrimination. Their argument is that the white conservative majority fosters an environment that endangers and marginalizes them. To maintain that alternative lifestyle folks/minorities r simply made to ‘feel uncomfortable’ is to ignore reality.
There’s definitely a happy medium between laws against, for instance, homosexual sex, and demanding everyone accommodate and support gay marriages. Unfortunately, the scolds and virtue signalers, who we now should all agree exist on both sides, don’t seem to know when to stop. They keep pushing on the behavior of others because it gives themselves meaning and purpose they do not actually have in their own lives.
Well said I can't agree more.
@@nunyabidness3075 Exactly right.
Agreed. Maybe Freddie is part of that community?
That community certainly doesn’t care about MY feelings, or what makes me uncomfortable.
As long as it doesn’t hurt others, I don’t care how someone lives their life, but stop pushing your lifestyle/agenda on children.
Hungarian here...a few comments: (1) the question of support of women who have kids: this is not considered to be an ideological question in Hungary, it is thought of a practical tool for survival, as the birth rate has been plummeting since ages...even those who feel that this support system is way too skewed, would acknowledge that something has to be done to stop population decline. ..BTW, it is not really working... (2) The media situation: while it is true that after the fall of communism most of the media was bought up by foreign players, and this was not good, the current media situation is completely frustrating and one-sided, the vast majority of media outlets spew goverment propaganda and the media situation is as bad as it gets...(3) Hungary (and the population) is not very religious ...so forcing a "christian democracy" ideology is just cynical...it is a smokescreen for some rather heavy handed conservative ideology (4) Orban is s disruptive politician, he will stir stuff whenever he can just to get into some battle...which pretty much lead to an almost complete isolation of Hungary internationally...they might sell this as a part of a bigger plan (e.g. Sweden's NATO joining), but in fact this is just a number of petty fights that costs us more than earns.
So why do all those Hungarians vote for him time and again?
@@fraserbailey6347 the opposition is very fractured and powerless. partly out of incompetence and stupidity, but partly by design: all the money and power is on the other side. it's a very tightly run propaganda machine with insane reach and a lot of commissars
I don't think Orban stirs stuff just to get into a battle. I think he goes as far as he can to try to get an agreement, like some money unfrozen for Hungary. He did finally get the Swedish guy to go to Hungary (he did not want to) and they made some agreements.
Opposition nobbelled..no air time...
Thank you for sharing. Much of what you say is the opposite of what I experience in Australia. For example our governments do nothing to help families and do many things to make their lives difficult. Our media is mainly far left propaganda. As are our courts.
We are not a very religious country either. Though I see a bit of change among young people. As government schools produce poorer and poorer results and sink lower with degeneracy and division, more and more families choose Roman Catholic schools even though they are not free.
Imagine a world in which the American Right supported regulations that would have prevented harmful medical procedures from being sent to market.
I’m lost on what your point is here.
Pfizer's safe and effective?
Pfizer?
I think I know what you mean, but my comments disappear.
@@nunyabidness3075Conservatism and Deregulation. It's a thing. A deadly thing in which profits are prioritized over human safety.
Great interview! Odd though that there was no reference to the frictions between Hungary and Ukraine caused by the mistreatment of Ukraine’s Hungarian minority. Dominique Arel and Jesse Driscoll have something to say about it in their book “Urakine’s Unnamed War”: “Though Hungarians form just 0.03 percent of Ukraine’s population, Hungary used its veto power to block talks on Ukrainian membership in NATO. . . The 2019 law therefore had to carve out a four-year delay for the implementation of Ukrainian-only schools that are ‘official languages in the European Union,’ which excluded Russian. (footnote 37 on p. 191) It also excluded Rusyn, spoken in Zakarpattia, and which the Kyiv regime insists is just a dialect of Ukrainian. Note that the EU’s way of dealing with linguistic bullying by Kyiv is to very selectively kick the linguistic bullying four years down the road, at least where the Hungarians are concerned. The authors’ math is way off. Ethnic Hungarians were 0.3% of the Ukrainian population in 2001, which, quite disgracefully, is the only census ever conducted since Ukrainian independence. Fans of GBNews will remember that Mark Steyn made a trip to Zakarpattia, the western oblast where most of the ethnic Hungarians. Steyn called it Transcarpathia so he could indulge in trans jokes. He had one interview with an elderly ethnic Hungarian man; Steyn gave the completely false impression that due to the Russian invasion most of these ethnic Hungarians had fled to Hungary.
One of the EU's many failings is its failure to properly address the rights of indigenous minorities. These people or their ancestors have not moved, but by redrawing borders they have come under the jurisdiction of other countries, even several times. The rights of these people should be protected and not only to Ukraine but also to other countries in Europe.
@@stomeka Thank you for your reply, and I completely agree with you. According to the 2001 census there were 157 thousand Hungarians in Ukraine in 2001, which doesn't sound like much but it is more than double the 70 thousand plus Germanophones in Eastern Belgium, where German is the official language. The denial of language rights to Russophones in the Baltic States (not so much in Lithuania as in Estonia and Latvia) is particularly troublesome. Every EU state should really try to treat its linguistic minorities as well as Belgium treats its Germans. (Of course, it would not be possible to create single-language ethnic enclaves for them in most cases.)
@@stomeka The EP/EC stated that the "minority safepack" proposes solutions to issues that simply doesnt exist.
Good interview. Things are moving alright. But where to?
That's the question, isn't it?
Hungarian here! I just don’t understand why the Hungarian mindset is bugging so many people on the western side of the world! I spent 7 years in the States and I have my opinion on that society!
Because the Hungarian government is a travesty. That's why.
Frankly: they are not used to being upfront and honest. They feel threatened by someone who dares to speak his/her mind; because in secret they would like to do the same; but managed to get themselves bogged down by a huge web of lies & half truths. Because truth is in some cases offenses and most politicians in the west want to just to look and sound "appropriate"; nobody cares if its real or true. "the game is the game".
One problem with Peppin is that he conflates two different uses of the term “liberalism.” One form of liberalism - call it classical liberalism - originates with people like Locke and Hume and Montesquieu. It focuses on individual rights. In economics, it tends toward free markets, with people like Adam Smith being influential. Classical liberalism grew out of The Enlightenment.
Modern statist post New Deal “liberalism” grew out of classical liberalism, but it’s much more statist and collectivist, while it does embrace aspects of classical liberalism, particularly sexual freedom.
Contemporary Social Justice ideology is wholly illiberal, and is a rejection of The Enlightenment.
His thinking is confused because he conflates these three distinct sets of ideas. He wants to reject the Enlightenment, but for different reasons than the Social Justice people.
Agree entirely. I'm not sure if he is doing it on purpose, or if it's an instance of the term liberal meaning left leaning in American dialogue. In Australia, for example, the major centre-right party is the Liberal Party, largely because they believe in creating a classical liberal society based on the ideas presented by the thinkers you referenced.
Freddie may like to consider when he talks of a neutral liberal state that I was brought up to see anyone who spoke with attenuated vowels and the effortless hauteur of an aristocrat as the oppressor. Ironically it has been my exposure to consertive thinkers like Douglas Murray and Niall Ferguson that shifted the dial on my liberal working class prejudice.
Freddie: Lots of people say.
I don't see the problem. These are the predictable arguments that are used against Hungary or conservatives in general. Why not let him respond?
Bringig up a child is very expensive in terms of time and money too. It is a personal decesion, but at the same time essential for the future of the community. The state by paying off their student loans, buying a half a house of those bringing up the next generation ..is not discriminating the ones that decide not to put effort into the community's future. Rather makes the sysetm reflecting on work and sacrifise witch is done by some and not done by others. My two children will be taxed to have the retirement financed of those today are childless and living for the present..for excusively themselfs.. and not investing into the future. Their children will provide me with nothing when i will be too old to work. They will be an extra burden on my children.
It would be injustice to give them same access to things that the community can provide. They were born with equal opportunitys and they are equal human beings, but they give less to the community therefore allowed to take out less from the community. Still in many aspects they have the same access to the common wallet as they would provide similarly..when they are simply not.
I people can't afford to have a child, they shouldn't have one. Plain and simple.
@@donquijotedelamancha3529
All the tax cuts and grants are exclusively for working couples. They in most cases can afford to have a child.., but to have 2 or 3 is like a decade for a woman out of work.. These laws were created to make the financial aspect of having 2nd and 3rd children a nobrainer so that no financial loss is attached to the decision. Nations and societys have this option or mass migration that does not cost less money at all.
One thing that I wish had been brought up was testing the success of Hungary. Hungary still continues to suffer from significant emigration, particularly the highly skilled, and while there is net migration to the country, a lot of that is coming from Romania and Slovakia (as well as Germany). Meanwhile, GDP per Capita for Hungary is lower than Greece. It is half of the Uk and a third of the US.
Orban has had plenty of time now to bring about a great society to Hungary, but we haven't seen it become a superstar country in the same way we saw South Korea, Singapore, and to a lesser extent countries such as Dubai and India. Liberalise your economies people!
I for one don't. I had hopes for him and he has proven himself not to be what I was expecting.
#gladden's like a man waiting at the bus-stop despite the fact there's a sign saying 'this stop is no longer in use' and someone's just stopped to tell him
This man assumes most people are naturally conservative. He doesnt understand that he doesnt represent the majority.
There is a big difference between a constitution enshrining certain values, such a family values, and forcing its citizens to live by those values. I wish Pippin had made that point.
Did Freddy ask about Hungaryian Gerrymandering.
FYI Hungarian. Gerrymandering - that is a US custom.
I agree with Freddie. Just dial liberalism back to where it was 20-30 years ago.
In my opinion, it is impossible, because if you go back, it will lead to the same results. What has happened is not an accident, but a logical continuation of liberalism. I don't consider myself close to the paleoconservatives and to the NRx, because I have a liberal core, but in that particular matter, I think the lines of thought discussed by The Distributist or Auron MacIntyre are pretty much spot on. The Auron MacIntyre/Peter Boghosian podcast was a good example of that, IMHO. Just a quick reponse to express a spontaneous thought. :-)
"Just dial liberalism back to where it was 20-30 years ago." - not an option.
@2:50, he is describing late 20th century conservatism in USA, for last 30 plus years Republican Party is Bg Government Energy
What he is basically saying is that they now acknowledge few people would transparently vote for their policies, but that in Orban they see someone who has managed to scheme a way of holding onto power by subverting the fledgeling democratic processes in Hungary. And now they would like to try that too, as a way of ramming their family values spew down your throat.
So among many other things, they're no longer democratically minded. They just can't admit it.
I think you got it wrong. That is absolutely not what he is saying.
RT International Africa Summit-SPIEF 2023-BRF cooperation in Agricultural-Poverty alleviation-STEM Healthcare-Infrastructure Domestic manufacturing. Reporterfy Media-Cyrus Janssen.
I can tell that this man has never experienced a psychedelic state. Sad.
Ive been very critical of American stupidness, born out of " over reached " liberalism!
Grt guest
Grt thoughts
Thanks Freddy
Gladden, eloquent as ever. A future Grand Chancellor of the Order of Malta… one hopes.
Refreshing to hear real Conservative views on the family, on society and on Foreign Policy. Gladden made me glad😊
Real conservative views, you say? Extreme Christian fundamentalism is what they are.
@@donquijotedelamancha3529 Burkean Conservatism with traditional Christianity. Go take a course in political philosophy and you will understand better.
Hungary sounds great. Buggered if you're sterile though.😂
Freddie, Freddie, Freddie. You sure showed your opinion. Your double standard is not journalism.
Well done, Freddie
Sounds like Raised By Wolves🇨🇦
The multipolar world already exists de facto. The more relevant question is whether this order is likely to bring greater global stability, or greater global conflict; greater global harmony of vision and agreement with a foundation in law, or increased violations of the same. The last time we had this world order, it ended in world war.
They are incentivised to have children....to protect family life. Liberalism incentivised to not have children....but unions have helped that....with maternal/paternal leaves of absence !
Between Liberalism and Authoritarianism there are Many shades of grey in between, it depends on the country's history and culture background the people themselves should be allowed to practise what they want until they intrude into another country's sovereignty. Liberalism is Not the only game in town. And remember all ideologies and/or system of governments have a finite life span(**). Only when a system can reform and then transform to another system or modified one can it prolongs its life span (*). As far as I can see the Liberalism as the west is practising it in the current western democracy, no governments are trying to reform themselves let alone transform it into another system.
*A good example Is China, the then Communist China in the 50s,60s and 70s and now a quite different system or more like a single party system with socialist and capitalist characteristics.
** all the empires that died in the past including Roman, Greece, etc.
I agree, the conversation seemed to focus on a false dichotomy. It's easy to drum up support for your way of thinking when you point to another way of thinking and suggest it's THE (only) other way of thinking and suggest it is wrong-headed based on various data points that show its weaknesses...but don't look at the weaknesses found in your own. 'Speck in the eye' scenario...
@@EzraKramer "It's easy to drum up support for your way of thinking when you point to another way of thinking and suggest it's THE (only) other....." I never said this implied as what you suggested I just to highlight to viewers that there another of thinking or view outside Liberal democracy. Liberal Democracy is NOT the only game in town. I am saying the above It is freedom of speech in a Democracy that you supported right?
#freddy's like a man at cafe nero who's ordered a skinny latte and they've given him a cappuccino and then thinks the problem is just the service girl so he doesn't say anything because he's confident next time they'll get it right and anyway it's all coffee
The Eastern European states are the new Byzantium.
Given your moniker, you seem remarkably certain of this proclamation.
These “natural” epistemological arguments are absurd
Standing ovation
Freddy comes across very petulant in this interview. He sounds like the stereotypical libertarian who refuses to countenance the use of the state to end his own persecution.
Heaven forbid someone disagrees with his worldview.
Maybe it's as simple as he loves his country.
Stealing everything not nailed to the ground means loving Ones country? Strange definition
@@aviztar it does yes..... Unlike other nations who have never done that.
@@MassiveLibat least yiu don't deny he's a corupt bastard who ruined his country
He loves it so much, him and his inner circle own ABSOLUTELY everything from stadiums through energy companies, hotels, motorways, etc.
@@dobcsek better than selling it to other countries like the UK did
"A lot of people critize Hungary... from the European Union..". Really? Which people? The 0.1% who scream at the silent 99.9% and DEMAND that we obey them and who have zero tolerence for those who challenge them? @Freddie: I would like to see you interview and challenge some of these people.
Pulling numbers out of your arse or do you have statistics to back that claim up?
@@DrDanQ92very easy to get statistics, aka your citizens opinion. Unfortunately, it did not turn out well with voting on the Lisbon treatee or Brexit..So following people's support for AFD in Germany AFD gets sidelind etc . Yes we can provoke you with any percentage to remind you that your side suppresses the will and opinion of the people. And you call it liberalism and even freedom. Haha.
@philipi7235 - Freddie will never challenge those people because he is one of those people.
Yes, a lot of us Europeans criticize Hungary. I am one of them. The Hungarian government is an embarrassment and a travesty.
@@donquijotedelamancha3529 You are free to criticise anything and anyone. However, what Ursula Von Den Pfizer allowed herself against Hungary is beyond the rule of law and the European contracts. UvdPfizer has betrayed the Europeans, she serves foreign interests and fights against the nation states. If you are a European you should be critical if her instead.
The interview was a literal advertisement for the Hungarian government. If you believe the ads you see, then good for you, but you should always read the fine print.
Without going into too much detail, you should just look up the recently established Sovereignty Protection Authority. The Hungarian Constitution never had anything similar to the 2nd amendment of the U.S. but the new law gives powers explicitly to the SPA like we shouldn't have the 1st, 4th and 5th either. Probably 6th and 7th too, but I'm not a lawyer.
We are in a state of emergency since 2015. Imagine Biden or Trump being the president since 2010 and the Congress without any real power since 2015, and no foreseeable end to that to get a brief understanding.
Orban always does what he thinks will keep him in power. He was very anti-Russian and anti-Christian earlier, and he won a referendum against then governing parties trying to introduce a fee (around 1 USD per visiting a doctor, capped at 20 USD/year) in healthcare, which remained free, but is getting close to a complete collapse day by day, maternity wards being in the worst shape.
He may be a good choice for you if you agree with him in everything now, but you should look up what happened to others (even the closest allies) not following his turnarounds.
Learn to recognize the leopards before they eat your face.
Mert a vizitdíj megmentette volna az egészségügyet :D.
@@csat1078 Did I write that the fee could have saved the healthcare system?
No, this was just one example of Orban going against traditional conservative values, when he gained political advantage because of this.
And before you say that free healthcare should be available to everyone, let me remind you todays reality, when you have to pay for almost everything, otherwise you wouldn't even get a place on the waiting lists.
@@esztik.2905 The current healthcare system is a leftover from the communist era: nobody dares to touch it because its a political minefield with no gains and certain losses. One of the many examples in which unpopular but necessary decisions are left untouched. The whole senior benefit + healthcare system would need a structural overhaul as well as the way people think about it....
@@csat1078 Yes we can agree on that. It's not something you put in the window, so I don't know why are these people advertising this and the family support (unchanged in nominal value since 2008, halved in real value as of now because of inflation) as the greatest achievements of Orban's government, when it's really rotten to the core.
You are a blatant liar
This was hilarious. But yes I’m in Florida and all the diversity people at the college were fired today. I’m not mad but I’m skeptical
Wow what a great achievement
That’s unimaginable where some of us are.
So unherd is moving left, gotcha.
Yes I'm getting sick of it
Classical liberalism ≠ leftist. Educate yourself
You're naive
@aaronmichael21 - ok, Professor 🙄
@@aaronmichael21Classical liberalism led us to gender transitions for kids.
It's not a hard commitment to "the Right" as you all chose to frame the topic because it's an intentional use of the other extreme to achieve a middle road policy orientation.
While i appreciate the nuanced discussion, I can't help but push back on Freddie's notion that political support of ideals (moral norms) that generate the most stable societies creates a problem for those caught not living up to those ideals. There should ALWAYS be ideals - but with full understanding that they are ideals and as such very likely will never be fully met. If we destroy the ideals, humanity devolves VERY quickly. Maybe he's suggesting we're all evolved to an 'ubermench' - making the most moral decisions because of our own intrinsic goodness and full wisdom? Good luck with that - that's when the narcissistic psychopaths take over and 'lead the way forward from year zero' (which seems to be the direction from the current left, and also the right of 1930s)
Maybe he's simply playing devils advocate very well to generate thoughtful responses?? Which is it Freddie?
13:58
Just starting to watch it. I guess he won’t talk about the massive corruption, the lack of democracy, declining healthcare services, disillusioned youth leaving the country in masses, etc….
yup. no mention. I hate these expat tourists.
Massive corruption: Biden, Ursula VDL, EP: Eva Kaili,.. ,the corrupt leftwing opposition in Hungary who.are now financed by Soros and when in government sold of the full energy sector in the 1994-98 , ruined the economy 2002-2006 , shot granates and eye hitting bullets at their people in 2006, declared bankruptcy and called in the IMF in 2009. From first Orban govt., during the left wing commie-liberal coalition the national debt went from 54% to 87% of the GDP. Whereas Orban created full employment , raised salaries, doubling the salaries of doctors in the past years. The EP and EU are those who do not respect their own rules. They hold back the loans that were taken after covid based on false pretext, but Uraula VDL told explicitly that they will not pay until Hungary withdraws it's child protection law and thereby lets the LGBTQ agenda into the schools, kindergartens and nurseries. Now the EU even denies the ERASMUS program to the Hungarian youth, although they finance Hamas in Gaza, those Islamist institutes do get funding.
Valoban sok fiatal magyar orszagon kivűl dolgozik de nem költözik el magyarorszagról mert amit külföldön keres azt othon magyarorszagon tudja jol elkölteni ahogy en is
I love that in America their left is liberal, and their rightists talk about how bad individualism is. Maybe what u guys need to discover is socialism Norway style or smtgh like that.
First we would need to discover "Norway style" oil. Until such miracle Hungary's best bet is to pursue the workfare economy targeted by Orban .
@@jozsefnemeth935Ok rather than accepting that the Norvegian system is one of the best in Europe lets make up excuses for why it can't work somewhere else... What about Canada and Sweden?
Social Liberalism works in these countries it is not about they having oil or not.
@@ANDR0iD The strongest party in the governing coalition in Sweden are the Swedish Democrats (right wing as Fidesz) . That tells you something about how satisfied the voters are with their liberalism. Freddie made an interview with a member of SD about a year ago
@@jozsefnemeth935That just tells us how effective right wing populism is at getting votes, it doesn't tell us how effective it is in governing a nation. Just look at Hungary we are falling off in every metric. The amount of right wing populists in Europe is very concerning. I don't have a problem with right wing itself just the populist part...
@@ANDR0iD "The amount of right wing populists in Europe is very concerning." - you know if only you would recognize the fact that maybe this is the result of the previous years of socialist governance and their lack of effective response(in some cases encouragement) to key issues like illegal immigration, crime and abysmal unsustainable economic policies detached from reality.
I am really disappointed at Freddie in this interview. He didn’t do his homework and reflected a progressive left-wing view, which is not compatible with Christianity. He claims to be a Christian, well then, be one! The biggest newspaper in Hungary is the left wing Népszava. The biggest TV station is the left wing RTL Klub. Clearly, the claim that our press is not free is tripe. Hír TV is a private TV station, (conservative), as is ATV (liberal-communist).
Freddie is quite insulting by claiming we are not free. I mean, wasn’t Viktor Orbán arrested by the Communists? I was. And here is Freddie taking their point of view. What’s the matter?
He claims the judiciary and universities are not free. What’s Freddie’s case? Scruton was very much in favour of Hungarian democracy!
Ukraine. Hungarians like me care about our family who are being kicked around by the Ukrainian government. It’s not a binary thing, we cannot forget the crimes of the Russians.
Multi-polar world. Remember Hungary’s founders, the Magyars came from Central Asia, there are many contacts with the East, so it’s not strange.
A quick review of Hungary's population decline since the 1980's, clearly indicates that conservative values appear to have little impact on the family, as far as the amount of children any given couple may wish to have.
Ez a program kb 5 eve kezdödött. Es vannak jelei hogy csökkent a csökkenés!!valóban ez nem 5per alatt fog megváltozni!!!türelem! Megfogjuk oldani nem kell migráns bevandorlo. Megoldjuk.
They haven't even discussed free parking in all major cities!
and windows in city buildings
@@johnl5316 Exactly!
Free parking sounds grand, but it isn't. Parking spots are a limited resource, and if we want to allocate resources fairly and efficiently, we should use prices as a means to distribute them. In an ideal world, car parking prices would fluctuate based on demand changes, in the same way Uber dynamically adjusts prices.
There seems to be a deep contradiction in Gladden's perspective. He proclaims to defend a society, through constitution and governance, which is in harmony with the natural order. But why would "nature" need a constitution or government to enforce its order? Isn't nature, by definition, the order and patterns which emerge spontaneously in the absence of a humanly conceived (or divine) plan?
Because humans exist.
Unless you want to live by the laws of the jungle, and be prepared to fight/kill every time your world is challenged, you need laws/constitution/governance to keep things in check.
Becaise humans are capable of acting against the natural order, therefore so is government.
Maybe because he's actually right wing? Unlike the supposed right in Britain and America.
He says, "People want to get married" and "It's human nature." No, no, no, wanting to have sex is human nature; getting married has nothing to do with nature. LOL
So much of Prof Pippens beliefs boiled down to "That's what people want" or "It's human nature". I was much more persuaded by Freddie's point that institutions should be reformed back to their original intention, rather than a fight fire with fire approach.
Hungary - a modern functioning democracy.... 🤦♂🤯
This guy may be well-spoken and well-read, but he is either deadly cynical or deadly stupid. Orban has turned Hungary into a mafia state with rampant corruption, nepotism and favoritism, no independent judiciary, a stranglehold on the media and educational system, as well as civil society. Andras Pap, Balint Magyar and Szabolcs Panyi, just to name a few, have all documented what modern Hungary's political system looks like, and it's a warning to all.
It should be made clear that criticizing and standing in opposition to Fidesz and Obran does not mean that one has to endorse every stupid policy the US and EU have adopted as gospel. But setting Hungary up as a role model is both laughable and dangerous.
What would you prefer there? The British government? You'd be overrun with immigrants and half the country would be homeless in less than a decade. Don't make me laugh!
Fully concur.
*yawn*
Your mirror is boring, but revealing. Because the EU and the American State Department have been stymied in implementing the kind of control you're describing does not mean that your enemies have the same goals in mind.
Balint Magyar you mention used to be minister for education in Hungary and is exactly the type of exorting type of "liberal" that G.P. describes in US institution. Balint Magyar is a Sorosist. The whole Hungarian left is financed illegally by Soros through Action for Democracy A4D as it has become a public scandal, after so many lies by politicians of the left.
Can't transition children, so Orban bad.
Liberals are degenerate and demented.
Because he's normal and decent.
Freddie's defense of the idealized vision of liberalism in 2024 could be compared with the hypothetical defense of the idealized vision of communism in 1985. Communism was the sinking ship in 1985, liberalism is the sinking ship in 2024.
If you are part of the European Union, you can't simply decide you want to be out of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Period.
does the CIA think so?🤣
when talking about liberalism, it is important to define which aspects you are talking about. For example, liberalism in sexuality. If a substantial portion of the population are gay, at some point there will not be enough offspring to sustain a society. There will not be enough people who can donate blood, because people who engage in anal sex are not abel to give blood. Looking at this particular aspect in a scientific way, it appears that biologically speaking, homosexuality is not conducive to a healthy and sustainable society. Btw, I spend time with gay friends and have no problem with their choices.
This guy wants to replace authoritarian progressivism with authoritarian Catholic conservatism.
I am a Hungarian who lived in different countries, so I can compare Hungary with other countries. This guy is just talking nonsense. This is one of the "experts " Orban is paying so he can look good. I think there is no point writing it down all the problems Orban and his Maffia state is creating in Hungary. Just go to Hungary , travel around the country see how people live, Hungary became the last country in the EU with Bulgaria. 30 years ago people from Poland were working in Hungary, well today you can't even compare Poland with Hungary. Soon it is better to live in Romania than in Hungary. The amount of nonsense you find on the internet is unbelievable....
And why Orban keeps winning elections , well why Putin keeps winning elections? Less than 20% of Hungarians speak a second language, and those are mainly young people. Most of these young Hungarians are leaving the country. Who is voting Orban? well the old people who grew up in Soviet communism and they have no idea what democracy is and they are brainwashed by Orbans media. Those who go to a hospital where there is no toilet paper and they think that's normal! While Orban maffia state is stealing everything they can.
Én magyarországon élek es teljesen másképpen látom .én úgy érzem orbán viktor vezetese alatt nagyon sokat fejlödőtt az ország❤❤ es tudom van meg min javitani de szép lassan haladunk a jo utonb
I thought Freddie was very hostile at times.
He was respectful all the way, but clearly displayed his very different view on certain topics: and that is completely fine. Most interviewers are hostile: this was an honest, civil conversation.
@@csat1078 They're either hostile and trying to DeStRoY their opposition, or they simp for them and just throw softballs. Left, right, and centre. This was an excellent discussion.
didn't really answer the question.
Putin loves him too!
Lets play politics