I have to keep reminding myself that I'm watching a video from a small shop in Ontario and not from AMG in Affalterbach. Amazed at what you accomplish.
I use the superglue tactic with wood working, just use the blue painters tape to make separation easier. Works like a charm, cool to see it working for machining.
Consider venting the oil tank into the valve covers. When the scavenge pumps aren’t moving oil, they are moving air. If you vent into the valve covers, you will create air flow down the return ports in the heads, helping to remove oil from them
Well, the air is still free to move from the timing case but I will block off the breathers. The blow by will be sucked by the scavenging stages and exit at the external oil reservoir
@@xfmotorsports It might be overkill but some engine builders like using a vacuum regulator instead of blocking off the breathers. Using a regulator lets you set it to fully blocked off, dial it back and then make sure that the vacuum stays consistent in the crankcase as the pump wears in and loses some efficiency. I'm pretty sure the reasoning is that you can tune closer to the edge without worrying about the back of the piston experiencing more resistance as the engine accumulates run time
You are correct. Cant weld the aluminum. Probably the type of aluminum. Most steel cars are also glued to assist the spot welds. You can see it a lot in the older Mercedes. Ferrari also glued their chassis. This technique is probably about 40 years old now
Amazing work as always, since you are working heavily with aluminium, may I suggest annodizing? Will cause some tolerance issues on critical parts, but will leave a hard surface, hold on to oil, and allow for a nice finish
AJ has a good point there.. A small shop can have an amazing CNC machine.. I'm in the same position.. CNC game changer! But it's your creativity that got the end mill rolling.. (ball / end mill whatever)... i'm doing something similar with a V12 (old group c car) so watching this is giving me good motivation and inspiration)
Very good design and nice fit! Need E55/CLS55 m113k engine oil dry sump with or without billeted upper oil pan/billeted lower oil pan or whatever with external oil reservoir tank and oil pressure regulator.
There is a reason the OE ones are hardened steel. Curious what clearances you have in relation to pump walls. Also, I suggest still doing an oil test unless you use 0wt. Cool project, but looks more like a proof of concept than something i'd use. Open to being proven wrong as usual.
Eagerly await new content, and am always happy to see any new stuff. Crazy level of development and execution. Any specific reason why you ran the pump gear machining program with no coolant? Just curious. Very entertaining with out any unnecessary silliness. You are my escape from all the ridiculousness in the world. It’s very much appreciated!
Great engineering work! I have a question though... the clearance between the lobes of the pump is very fine - has the thermal expansion of the lobes been tanken into account, so the pump lobes will not make contact when the engine and oil is at operating temperature?
I'm quite curious how will the original mercedes gears handle additional load. There is also a question of using aluminium as a bearing material for hardened steel shafts with transverse load from a high pressure oil side.
Fantastic fabrication 👌🏻 Will it be beneficial if you ad locating dowels between the pump housings ? Will the aluminium pump rotors hold up to the constant torque fluctuations where the shaft go through the rotors? Aluminium is soft and it might wear premature. Just my 2 cents. Great work guys can’t wait to see it run 🏁
That oil tube that runs from the back to the front has that fitting that just connects with nothing really holding it. Seems I saw a video where that started leaking bad and starved the engine of oil. You know what happens after that. Destroyed his engine. There has to be a better way to hold it together. I think there is just an o-ring there which can deteriorate. Your design is ingenious! I used to run cnc and electronic tracer machines back in the 70s and 80s. It's all in the setup especially when you run tolerances of -0/+.005 inches on titanium.
Sux when a great project just gets abandoned. I get it, things happen … it just sucks for viewers to not hear it run. Reminds me of rob dhams rotary. Still enjoy the content fellas.
It looks like the pump drive gear is stock. Expecting to run such high rpm (almost double the stock median engine speed) have you considered cavitation being created by spinning g the pump too quickly?
A wet sump should have baffles to stop the issues you discuss with pickup; basically, the baffles keep the oil "calm" but have holes in each baffle to allow oil to flow. Only motorcycle wet sumps do not need baffles.
I see a torch next to the parts when you used a hammer to separate the superglued parts. Did you use the torch to weaken the superglue or was it there for some other reason? If you didn't, use a torch to weaken the superglue before hitting it with a hammer.
You need to avoid removing the base plate from the vise between machining operations, that way you face the fixture once, then glue on a bunch of parts and don't have to face the fixture every time you put it in the vise. If you doubt my advice, put the fixture plate in, face it, then take it out and put it back in and run a 1 tenths indicator over the entire face.
SO SWEET!...as always. :) that superglue mounting trick is a *huge* time/effort-saver, but personally, i'd use a block of wood or something to cushion the hammer when knock the piece off. using a steel hammer on a machined metal part is just asking for trouble, no matter how careful you are. lol, just my $0.02, which market-price-wise is worth significantly less than that actually. :/
That flow is crazy. What happens if it constantly runs dry? That sump will probably outflow the inbound oil pump by far. Is there any kind of bypass that maintains a certain amount of wet level in the sump area? Is it even a concern?
I love the content. Being in a garage I hear a lot of echo from the sound bouncing in such a large room. I dont mind it 90% of the time, But as a suggestion if you want to improve is to hook up some mic's to your jackets and speak into those! Cheers! I cant wait to for the next episode!
Surprised your pumps take the oil from the middle of the pan… if you drive a long wick curve won’t that leave the pumps possibly just sucking in air ? Or is the external dry sump reservoir big enough to allow for that ?
The wings on the sump are now unnecessary so I would cut them off as well as creating a mini sump under each set of bearings to catch and channel oil to the scavenge pumps. Otherwise your dry sump system will be very inefficient and cause some of the problems you're trying to solve.
I thought the same, but vasically theyre really precicely manufactured and aluminum can be ment quite easily, so the faces align to each other i guess.
I would recommend changing to a brass hammer instead of a steel ball peen...Also, with your aluminum pump end plates and aluminum pump lobes floating on the shaft. Will there not be a problem with wear of the end plates and ends of the pump lobes without any thrust bearings? Usually aluminum on aluminum will gall, but with the oil perhaps not?
Curious about the wear too, some oil lite bushings pressed into each housing around the shaft that sits a bit proud on each side as a minimal thrust surface was my first instinct to up longevity for both shaft and rotors.
@@wolfman5494 Yes...and I have never seen Pump Lobes made of Aluminum in my 40 years of building race engines and doing prototype design...I would have chosen 4130 and had it Heat treated and then Wire EDMed...hope those aluminum lobes don't fail and cause instant engine failure...Even cavitation erosion or fine particle erosion of the Aluminum Lobes will open up the tolerances enough to cause problems.
@@prestonengebretson2920 check out Dailey engineering drysump pumps they are all alloy apart from the pressure section which is one 4140 spur gear and one bronze gear for wear use. Most drysump applications are alloy now with a hard anodizing for any wear resistance.
All three stages of your pump scavenge from the same place, what's the point? Wouldn't it be better to make them scavenge from right/left/center parts of the sump?
Usually there is an indivigual stage for each pair of cylinders but in this case since we werent changing the upper oil pan and wouldn't have been able to mount the engine lower because of the flywheel size, there wasn't much gain doing that
@@xfmotorsports if I understand right you mean distribution of scavenge pumps along the length of the block. My question was about putting scavenge points on right/left sides of the sump that looks pretty wide, so in turns you might have some oil in the sides.
@@xfmotorsports If you scavenge from the same place, is there an advantage of using 3 scavenging stages instead of 1 bigger pump? Not trying to nitpick, just being curious. I was thinking maybe it's for redundancy, since scavenge pumps are said to be not too long lived, or maybe since you are bolting the new housings to the existing one, a single stage wouldn't have fit.
Pleaser remove the background music ...it doesn't add anything except annoyance! Difficult to hear/concentrate on the spoken word. Content excellent as always ! 😃
I have to keep reminding myself that I'm watching a video from a small shop in Ontario and not from AMG in Affalterbach. Amazed at what you accomplish.
This type of engineering content is so rare, it's either just machining videos or building from bought parts, this is really educational. Thank you!
Waiting for the next update
engineering at its finest, keep it up! been watching since the garage days, you have come a long way 💪
Can't wait to see this thing moving and on the dyno
Me too
@@yusufkuntoro3141 how is your last name pronounced?
@@yayayayya4731 lol
Its like a symphony watching you work man
Lol to think that the first bell housing adapter was made with sheet metal. Unreal growth. Can't wait to see more!
I use the superglue tactic with wood working, just use the blue painters tape to make separation easier. Works like a charm, cool to see it working for machining.
Consider venting the oil tank into the valve covers. When the scavenge pumps aren’t moving oil, they are moving air. If you vent into the valve covers, you will create air flow down the return ports in the heads, helping to remove oil from them
Yea thats a pretty good idea
Well, the air is still free to move from the timing case but I will block off the breathers. The blow by will be sucked by the scavenging stages and exit at the external oil reservoir
@@xfmotorsports , vent where you expect the least oil vapor. Maybe a separate crank case scavenge pump for blow by?
@@xfmotorsports It might be overkill but some engine builders like using a vacuum regulator instead of blocking off the breathers. Using a regulator lets you set it to fully blocked off, dial it back and then make sure that the vacuum stays consistent in the crankcase as the pump wears in and loses some efficiency. I'm pretty sure the reasoning is that you can tune closer to the edge without worrying about the back of the piston experiencing more resistance as the engine accumulates run time
@@xfmotorsports you might want to vent the vacuum, to much vacuum in the crankcase will blow seals, but slight vacuum is good against loses
the old super glue trick, that pump is amazing you guys do great work.
I’ve been really busy and I’m so glad I can watch this now, incredible engineer and inspirational.
I love how you're not scared to take on anything. Very inspiring!
Fun Fact: The C8 Corvette's aluminum chassis is mostly glued together, with only a few portions put together with bolts
So are all the modern lotuses except the evija but that doesn't really count
@@palmermonsen9098 Yeah the Evija sucks, 0% lotus
@@THESLlCK So true, what happened to low weight low power and handling?
@@palmermonsen9098 the chinese apparently lol
You are correct. Cant weld the aluminum. Probably the type of aluminum.
Most steel cars are also glued to assist the spot welds. You can see it a lot in the older Mercedes. Ferrari also glued their chassis.
This technique is probably about 40 years old now
It is always a pleasure to watch someone who knows what they are doing.
You are a big inspiration to me. Very talented, knowledgeable and most of all, humble.
Phenomenal work as usual!
Can't wait to see all your projects progress!!!
Keep the videos coming please! 👌
Man, you make this look so easy.
This is by far my favourite series on youtube right now! Keep them vids coming :D
The fabrication on this channel 😍😍
Awesome work as always! Never seen anyone make their own dry sump before, thoroughly impressed!! Cost me $2500 for my single stage kit. Haha
Impressive work you are a genius.
I stop watching Netflix since
I discovered your youtube channel .
keep going man 💪💪
Excellent video as always. Excellent content.
Friggin brilliant dude. I wish you were in NYC
Sweet Jebus. Bentley Shenanigans. Love these unique projects.
Amazing work as always, since you are working heavily with aluminium, may I suggest annodizing?
Will cause some tolerance issues on critical parts, but will leave a hard surface, hold on to oil, and allow for a nice finish
AJ has a good point there.. A small shop can have an amazing CNC machine.. I'm in the same position.. CNC game changer! But it's your creativity that got the end mill rolling.. (ball / end mill whatever)... i'm doing something similar with a V12 (old group c car) so watching this is giving me good motivation and inspiration)
Dude. Great job as always.
Very impressive work 👌
Great Stuff! Loving all the Burton gear!
You guys are awesome!
I missed your videos my friend. Great jog!
Make sure the oil tank has sort of deaireaition stage in it.
So nice work
Nice big pompe
Hi y'all Greeting from GA. Great work don't buy it makes it yourself .keep up the great work. Hope I get to see you at road Atlanta
I hope someone develops a dry sump for the C63 M156! Maybe you could give that project a shot one day?
Good job 👍
great stuff
This is looking pretty nice, any updates coming soon-ish?
I suggest making some bronze bushings to press into the scavenge stages, they will be more durable than the bare aluminum for the shafts to ride on.
We need this on the E55 AMG!😍
goood work
amazing
How about heating everything to your expected oil temperature? - to check for tolerances during thermal expansion.
Your title is intriguing
Looking at putting in an air /oil separator would be a very good idea. You will be surprised how much air gets into engine oil.
Very good design and nice fit! Need E55/CLS55 m113k engine oil dry sump with or without billeted upper oil pan/billeted lower oil pan or whatever with external oil reservoir tank and oil pressure regulator.
There is a reason the OE ones are hardened steel. Curious what clearances you have in relation to pump walls. Also, I suggest still doing an oil test unless you use 0wt.
Cool project, but looks more like a proof of concept than something i'd use. Open to being proven wrong as usual.
Eagerly await new content, and am always happy to see any new stuff. Crazy level of development and execution. Any specific reason why you ran the pump gear machining program with no coolant? Just curious. Very entertaining with out any unnecessary silliness.
You are my escape from all the ridiculousness in the world. It’s very much appreciated!
Amazing work as always. What about the E55 amg manual swap?
Can you not sort out the electronics?
Great engineering work!
I have a question though... the clearance between the lobes of the pump is very fine - has the thermal expansion of the lobes been tanken into account, so the pump lobes will not make contact when the engine and oil is at operating temperature?
genious
I'm quite curious how will the original mercedes gears handle additional load. There is also a question of using aluminium as a bearing material for hardened steel shafts with transverse load from a high pressure oil side.
Good stuff. Love the work you're doing. What cnc do you use? Recently learned much from Rod Dahm about cnc. Authentic content here
that's just cool, great job. But do you even need that much oil flow or pressure, it also looks like it takes some power to rotate.
How it goes the project? One of the best racing projects, please keep going😬😬
XF is the new AMG
Wow 🤩
Fantastic fabrication 👌🏻 Will it be beneficial if you ad locating dowels between the pump housings ? Will the aluminium pump rotors hold up to the constant torque fluctuations where the shaft go through the rotors? Aluminium is soft and it might wear premature. Just my 2 cents. Great work guys can’t wait to see it run 🏁
That oil tube that runs from the back to the front has that fitting that just connects with nothing really holding it. Seems I saw a video where that started leaking bad and starved the engine of oil. You know what happens after that. Destroyed his engine.
There has to be a better way to hold it together. I think there is just an o-ring there which can deteriorate.
Your design is ingenious! I used to run cnc and electronic tracer machines back in the 70s and 80s. It's all in the setup especially when you run tolerances of -0/+.005 inches on titanium.
Sux when a great project just gets abandoned. I get it, things happen … it just sucks for viewers to not hear it run. Reminds me of rob dhams rotary. Still enjoy the content fellas.
14:33 - art
Question about your pistons. Can you make a set that would measure 102.2? That would fit the m113k aftermarket rods?
It looks like the pump drive gear is stock. Expecting to run such high rpm (almost double the stock median engine speed) have you considered cavitation being created by spinning g the pump too quickly?
A wet sump should have baffles to stop the issues you discuss with pickup; basically, the baffles keep the oil "calm" but have holes in each baffle to allow oil to flow. Only motorcycle wet sumps do not need baffles.
Welll.. did you guys take thermal expansion into consideration being aluminium?? Would be interesting to see how it deals with hot liquid.
I see a torch next to the parts when you used a hammer to separate the superglued parts. Did you use the torch to weaken the superglue or was it there for some other reason? If you didn't, use a torch to weaken the superglue before hitting it with a hammer.
Click spring ? I see him use crazy glue to machine parts , it surprisingly works good but i haven't tried it on the mill , bold👍🏻
You need to avoid removing the base plate from the vise between machining operations, that way you face the fixture once, then glue on a bunch of parts and don't have to face the fixture every time you put it in the vise. If you doubt my advice, put the fixture plate in, face it, then take it out and put it back in and run a 1 tenths indicator over the entire face.
Hope you're going to seal the housings tho. There was a lot of leakage out of the sides
SO SWEET!...as always. :)
that superglue mounting trick is a *huge* time/effort-saver, but personally, i'd use a block of wood or something to cushion the hammer when knock the piece off. using a steel hammer on a machined metal part is just asking for trouble, no matter how careful you are. lol, just my $0.02, which market-price-wise is worth significantly less than that actually. :/
That flow is crazy. What happens if it constantly runs dry? That sump will probably outflow the inbound oil pump by far. Is there any kind of bypass that maintains a certain amount of wet level in the sump area? Is it even a concern?
I love the content. Being in a garage I hear a lot of echo from the sound bouncing in such a large room.
I dont mind it 90% of the time, But as a suggestion if you want to improve is to hook up some mic's to your jackets and speak into those!
Cheers! I cant wait to for the next episode!
those sound awful and won't mitigate reverb in a large room. he needs sound deadening on the walls
5:26, whose pretty fingers are those? :D
Surprised your pumps take the oil from the middle of the pan… if you drive a long wick curve won’t that leave the pumps possibly just sucking in air ? Or is the external dry sump reservoir big enough to allow for that ?
Whats the update on the SL engine swap? That project is why I subscribed to the channel.
What kind of cnc mill are yous using?
The wings on the sump are now unnecessary so I would cut them off as well as creating a mini sump under each set of bearings to catch and channel oil to the scavenge pumps. Otherwise your dry sump system will be very inefficient and cause some of the problems you're trying to solve.
Nobody:
His design software: PIVOT... PIVOT
Any news about this project? Cheers David
Is this going to be a flatplane?
Will you be selling a dry sump kit eventually???
What means XF spelled out?
Extreme Fabrication
I thought one of the main benefits of a dry sump system besides reliable oil pressure, was the increased clearance from running a flat pan?
oil pump with aluminium gears how is that gona last or is it just a test pump
Will this work as a fix for the O-ring failure?
No bearings?
Is there any reason why there isn't a gasket/silicone between the aluminium layers of the dry sump?
I thought the same, but vasically theyre really precicely manufactured and aluminum can be ment quite easily, so the faces align to each other i guess.
How fast can you make a pump for my C32 Coupe?
What about adding gaskets between each stage 👀?
Not really needed since the scavenging stage doesn't need to hold high oil pressure.
I would recommend changing to a brass hammer instead of a steel ball peen...Also, with your aluminum pump end plates and aluminum pump lobes floating on the shaft. Will there not be a problem with wear of the end plates and ends of the pump lobes without any thrust bearings? Usually aluminum on aluminum will gall, but with the oil perhaps not?
Curious about the wear too, some oil lite bushings pressed into each housing around the shaft that sits a bit proud on each side as a minimal thrust surface was my first instinct to up longevity for both shaft and rotors.
@@wolfman5494 Yes...and I have never seen Pump Lobes made of Aluminum in my 40 years of building race engines and doing prototype design...I would have chosen 4130 and had it Heat treated and then Wire EDMed...hope those aluminum lobes don't fail and cause instant engine failure...Even cavitation erosion or fine particle erosion of the Aluminum Lobes will open up the tolerances enough to cause problems.
@@prestonengebretson2920 check out Dailey engineering drysump pumps they are all alloy apart from the pressure section which is one 4140 spur gear and one bronze gear for wear use. Most drysump applications are alloy now with a hard anodizing for any wear resistance.
what is the name of the software you use to draw the piezes?
Please give updates on this project
Make one for honda k series please
Do you think you will add this and the piston to your online store one day?
Yes, after they tested for a bit
You should sell those pistons, wiescos are 2k a set.
You can remove the part with a torch, heat it and the glue bond fails, no hammer needed.
Hello. Any chance another xf1 video is on the way? I don't mean to rush you - I can wait another 6 months as long as I know it's coming. Thanks
Yes it's coming. Next month we should have a few updates
@@xfmotorsports you're the man. Thank you x
@@xfmotorsports any updates?
All three stages of your pump scavenge from the same place, what's the point?
Wouldn't it be better to make them scavenge from right/left/center parts of the sump?
Usually there is an indivigual stage for each pair of cylinders but in this case since we werent changing the upper oil pan and wouldn't have been able to mount the engine lower because of the flywheel size, there wasn't much gain doing that
@@xfmotorsports if I understand right you mean distribution of scavenge pumps along the length of the block. My question was about putting scavenge points on right/left sides of the sump that looks pretty wide, so in turns you might have some oil in the sides.
@@777MAV Yeh, we are going to be blocking off the sides as much as possible. The width isn't needed anymore
@@xfmotorsports If you scavenge from the same place, is there an advantage of using 3 scavenging stages instead of 1 bigger pump? Not trying to nitpick, just being curious. I was thinking maybe it's for redundancy, since scavenge pumps are said to be not too long lived, or maybe since you are bolting the new housings to the existing one, a single stage wouldn't have fit.
Pleaser remove the background music ...it doesn't add anything except annoyance! Difficult to hear/concentrate on the spoken word. Content excellent as always ! 😃
maybe during the machining it is fine
I don't mind it
No music AND better microphones is the way
nice to see the boomers representing in the comments