If you would like to go even deeper with your explanations it would be great and I think that many will appreciate it! Maybe even do a whole video for nerds only! Great work man!
Same here. Fire up a Patreon account. I would totally give you a buck or two per video for in depth analysis and calculations on designing the suspension. It would save me hours from breaking out my old text books and re-learning it.
What an absolute legend. I'll be following your project closely and I hope you'll be able to gain enough subscribers to provide significant financial help to fund the future of your project. Awesome work!
You’re being very brave showing this build and in this much detail as you’re bound to to be criticised by people who think that they know better. Good for you for having the facts to hand to prove that what your doing is correct. Can’t wait to see how you tackle your next set of problems. Keep up the good work.
Loved the explanation at the end, huge credit for being able to back up your decisions with actual calculations and simulation data. Killer quote: "cars are not designed by people standing around in a circle and looking at something and the judging how strong it is. There are actual methods to calculate how much stress something has to go under....."
Your comment is paradoxical. By throwing around an epithet like "armchair expert" you are asserting that you yourself are an expert capable of judging the FACTS and CALCULATIONS presented in the video as being true and accurate. Yet you simultaneously insist that nobody else is capable of judging the FACTS and CALCULATIONS and pointing out errors. So you and the guy in the video are the only two people on UA-cam who understand physics or suspension and you are both infallible. He did make FACTual errors in the video. Most notably when he said pushrod suspension reduces unsprung weight. Anything that moves with the wheel is partially unsprung weight. That includes the pushrod and bellcrank. Bolting the coilover across the top of the chassis doesn't make it less a part of the unsprung weight than bolting it directly to the control arm.
I'm drooling over the physics explained in your video! :) Facts, Science, Logic & Reason are the undisputed champions in any dispute. Bro-science vs. Physics! Physics wins every time and your patience to educate all the bro's on Reddit and on your channel is extremely appreciated and very valuable. It's never about right or wrong, it's what matters most to making it work properly in the end. Thank you for patiently explaining the suspension design, calculations and formulas, and the graphs in Excel you used to make sure you were within the limits of your design. I am eagerly awaiting to see you race your E55 ASL track monster once your project is all finished. :) Say the word and I'll be there. Now, it's back to work for me.
It's been said here before, but after you'd be done with the project, I also would love to see an in-depth video about entire critical calculations that went into the design. I feel there are not many people who could explain it as well as you. I've been watching these videos multiple times already and will continue to do that to remember as much as I can! And owning the keyboard warriors was simply legendary :)
To many folks trying overthink this for you, its yours to break.... Not to say that it would of course, but your the one doing all the work here! And it looks great! You've done the math and now your doing the work! Cant wait to see this project completed!
Thanks for taking the time to share things in such a detailed manner. I think you have renewed my decision to design/build a pushrod suspension on my project car. I think I was trying to get a little too complicated and you have brought it back to a much simpler approach for me. It's rare to see someone share build steps at this detailed of a level. Please keep it up. Look forward to watching through to your project completion!
I love how you take the time to explain and show why you did what you did. Most people don't understand how much time and calculations going into make just 1 part let alone a complete system. Great job!!!
really nice, im finishing my carreer in mechanical engenierring and i would have loved to see this 4 years ago, all your explanations all pretty clear keep on doing it
The angle of incidence is equal to the axis of inclination. As with Billiards or the articulating geometry of a suspension- there are definable rules and formulas that must be followed. You are doing an awesome, complex fabrication, with all the science, math and graphs to point it all out. Haters are just yankin your chain; pay no mind to their drivel.
front suspension mounts/ball joints do not look strong enough for CASTER type loads, Especially because SLA suspensions usually have a positive scrub radius, your scrub radius looks very negative.... The greater the scrub radius (positive or negative), the greater the steering effort and the more load it puts on parts and you get more road shock, pivot binding, torque steer, 0 degrees of scub is also bad it will wiggle, 17:44 your changing your scrub radius/ Steering axis inclination/ mechanical leverage
Effective scrub radius appears to be 0, not sure where you think the negative scrub radius is coming from. His steering axis appears to meet the tire center line at least during straight line travel.
@@VS666 yahhh no, both are concepts we created to describe the universe, and can be wrong, just like einstein proved in the relative theory. the ¨laws¨ are there ofcourse, but we dont know them, we only can describe them in human language.
pi for example, its a ¨magic¨ number that can be found in almost an infinite amount of forms, and we dont even know why this number exist, but still we use it because its usefull ua-cam.com/video/HEfHFsfGXjs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=3Blue1Brown
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is - Yogi Berra. This project use physics - where you try to describe the reality through a model, opposite of math that is kept pure theoretical. The reality always win, and the models is always adjusted to the world you observe, this is empiricism and why sceince is evolving. Theory is a shortcut to easen the work, foresight reality and avoid failure. - sincerly a manufacturing engineer that is parttime behind a computer and parttime on the shopfloor.
This is absolutely amazing! The car will be very fast... You seem very defensive when addressing your critics. I could be wrong but either way I wouldn't get too upset about them if I were you. Your like to dislike ratio is clear evidence that the vast majority of your audience believes that you know what you're doing. Thanks for the awesome content. Highly technical custom stuff like this is few and far between.
I’m missing something here...why are the ball joints (used for the front double wishbones) welded / mounted horizontally to the car chassis? Can the suspension actually move up and down in this orientation?
who ever the haters are they have no idea, we use basically the same materials to build suspension, at present the race team is building a new drift car same ball joints, drift puts that front lower arm under massive pressure and they still hold, in fact the only way to go due to the massive aggressive loadings involved would compress most bushes and create play in the steering. Love the design, very inspiring!
hey.. have you involved with such a competition like formula student? I have done the same calculation as you do, but all the fabrication is done by our university technician. A very well explaination sir.. hats off.
I really like the level of engineering used here. As someone who's fascinated by suspension design I definitely appreciated the level of analysis and reasoning you presented. Also, thanks for the explanation of the heim joint orientation. I was curious at the start why horizontal was better, more from a consideration of available travel compared to mounting vertically. I hadn't considered that the stress on the ball/socket interface from the longitudinal force on the suspension would be significantly higher compared to having them horizontal.
I really like the fact that you are doing everything yourself, and that you take the time to explain how. Also, you seems really trustworthy when it comes to calculations. As an engineering student, i can only agree with the results you get at the end of the video. Cheers!
Great stuff! Anyone who says this is too light weight, or it will fail when it see the track - Go look at most 60-70's Formula cars, or even stuff like a Mclaren M6. Where this guy is using 12mm rod ends, they used 8mm! Admittedly their fabrication is more aero grade. I reckon your safety factors have a safety factor ;-) Keep inspection regular and look for cracks. Not sure I like what you're doing at the end of the wishbones. Looks great and I look forward to catching up with your videos.
What the hell... How am I JUST finding this UA-cam channel??? More people need to see this. I don't know if it's UA-cam's search engine or if you don't have enough tags or descriptions in your titles but your channel should have popped up on my radar a while ago.
Sir you have been one of my inspirations to become a mechanical engineer for automobiles and hadn't it been for my own project car rebuild and being a broke high school student I would fund this project, best of luck tho and for using math to shut these people down and to teach me a couple things on the way :)
I know its is a ways out, but when you get to making the body panels you should take a look at Street Banditos' channel. One of them is making all the body panel from carbon fiber. I think the process they use might help you out once you get to that point. Love the build man.
Excellent video man. Ignore all the idiots on reddit. Clearly you know what you're doing since you've built and tested these components. Keep the content coming, I'm glued to the screen everytime you put up a new video!! I was going to say I'm an engineer myself and would love more explanations of your calculations, even if you started a second channel dedicated to the maths that would be really awesome!
Great video. Something to consider with your stress analysis is fatigue stress. You appear to have only considered the ultimate capacity of the tube, but in reality if that car will break it will be in fatigue.
This build is insane. I love it. I’ve put a few cages in some Honda oval track cars as well as slight custom Chevy chassis’s for oval and figure 8 tracks. This suspension could be the next big thing for us as in keeping the shocks within the frame rails so that if our wheels do make contact and damage suspension it doesn’t damage a very expensive coilover.
Great video. You mentioned that conventional suspension can only have a linear springrate. That is only partially true as you can just use a progressive spring. That will make it non linear. Keep up the good work 😀
Thomas Ravn progressive springs don’t have the benefits of unsprung mass and also adjustability. They are just a fixed linear rather than adjustable linear. Pushrod looks cool too on camera especially under heavy breaking
@@Swagoi agreed but my point was that you can have a non linear springrate using a conventional setup. I.e. it was not an argument for what is best, only correcting The statement said in the video
@@Swagoi by the way. If you are using the same shock and spring you don't technically remove any sprung mas (with a push rod suspension) as the amount of weight behind the spring is the same or greater. You do however gain where the weight is placed and the possibility to turn the shock and spring movement to another direction than the wheel is moving in to give the same effect as less unsprung mas. At least that is my understanding of it 😀
@11:00 minutes. Just a point of fine craftsmanship. "Fish mouth" your tube ends. It's a requirement in aviation, and a fine point everywhere else. It provides a longer weld surface and is stronger. Easy to do and looks great. Fine job. I hope it's fast.
“I don’t want to turn this into a physics lesson “ Goes right into kinetic energy translation formula. Great build man. Have fun going down that rabbit hole of a race car. I hope an Audi manufacturer finds you on a race team.
Mounting the ball joints on the A arms upright instead of flat is quite common in road cars..but also very common on high powered desert cars and it works fine.
Yes, but they usually up size the ball joints to deal with the bending stresses. Same way all the links on the multi link suspension that are under bending stresses are designed much stronger. It's fine for road cars but unnecessary weight in a low travel suspension where the extra travel isn't being used anyways
@@xfmotorsports you could mount them vertically and still have exactly the same forces and loading. You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding what people are suggesting. You could mount them 'vertically' and coaxial, they would not be in bending as you suggest if the mounting bolts were perpendicular to the A arms and the bearing surface loads would be the same. I've met engineers like you before who are so wedded to their own ideas as well as believing they're too bright to be wrong. I've been one myself. I now work on the assumption that I'm wrong until I can prove myself I'm right.. or wrong?
Really amazing build! My favourite on youtube! No clickbate or nonesense, just kickass physics and build skills!. Keep it up!. Maybe you wanna do a pateron page?
Good explanations. The one thing that I haven't heard you address directly is the upper ball joints. Yes they were used in a 2 ton E55. But they are UPPER ball joints. Upper ball joints in a double wishbone suspension with a tall knuckle are under almost no stress at all (compare the upper size to the lowers). Of course I am hand waving here but it seems like they could be under MORE stress in your ASL then as an upper in a W211. I guess I'd like to hear the math behind both of those applications.
Thanks for explaining everything about pushrod suspension, very helpful. A different question,what’s the od and thickness of your tubes?they seem like 1.5” tube? Seem pretty beefy.
Is there anywhere I can get more detailed info about the wishbone suspension geometry? I'm working on a reverse trike and I'd like to know how to determine the mounting points for the a-arms.
Is there room to flip the shock over (back to front) so that the air canister is facing down? Is so then you will be able to make the body panel have a lower profile.
Why are the lower and upper control arm heim joints mounted 90 degrees from upright? Would they work better being mounted up and down giving full movement?
They would work better if mounted 90 degrees yes. For a suspension that articulated more (such as an off road one) you would want full travel. This being a race car the suspension will probably only travel from that point 5-8 degrees maybe. Plenty of travel for the heims mounted like that. It looks like they were mounted that way because it is the most convenient and gives you better surface area for a weld.
@@zdfnhxfgjnhxfgnj I'm just curious because most race cars that I've seen, asphalt, dirt or what have you have been mounted 90 degrees from what's here. Just my idea that 5-8 degrees wouldn't be enough even on a road course. Could be wrong, more than happy to be wrong. Just learning like everyone else
Why have you made the axes of the rose joints at the inboard end of the front wishbones vertical when the suspension motion requires them to be horizontal?
Don't listen to the arm chair racers, keyboard mechanics and wanna be engineers. You are doing amazing work on this and it is all based on calculations and theory, not a guesstimate. No need to justify yourself to these guys. Half of them couldn't solve a calculation or begin to understand the basic math needed.
Isn't adjusting caster at those points messing with your bump steer? how are you planning on controlling adverse bump steer effects by adjusting the caster at these points?
Is there room for the rod ends to move vertically within the mount? It looks pretty tight. I have seen different mounting techniques where the rod ends are mounted in a vertical plane for suspension movement.
I think you answered my question from your last video too. I wanted to know how you figured out how far forward (from the engine) you placed the front wheels. During this video you mentioned weighing everything and that allowed you to place them to achieve a 50:50 weight distribution so I guess that was how you worked it out.
Yes, the engine is only a 270kg mass in a 900kg car. Placing that and all other components appropriately still easily leads to a good weight distribution
Is it possible to get a hold of the 3d-design you have for all of this? Thinking of doing a first gen mustang and turning it into a track beast, and this design would probably fit my ambitions really nicely
id recommend a diagonal support on the suspension box for better load distribution also so u can lower ur complaince make the rockers mounted at nodes and little bit more triangulations maybe u wont be needing that arb with higher chassis stiffness unless u want more adjustable system then go for it
Great work and impressive configuration. Can you post the shock specs: make, model etc? You mention they are motorcycle shocks (conducive to compact design and performance). Thanks,
Weak points l see is on square tubing mounting points at rear of lower control arms pushing inward and front pulling outward . Little strengthening will do the trick. Built go cart many moons ago with similar setup but on rear suspension used additional pushrod connected to normal tie rod position for steering on hub and so created 'steering' by slight offset of balance when cornering basically turning back wheels into the turn and preventing rear end to swing outward. Had fantastic results with that and nobody knew how l did it at time. I am 66 years old now and still busy at moment building 350 SB into my Pajero wich l would take for test drive within 2 to 3 days from now. Anyway l enjoy your informative videos and would love to se end result.
Yeh, the front part still needs to be triangulated. I know its not ideal to leave triangulation to the end but when your still waiting on half the parts to arrive its hard to figure. Great trick with the steering. That's what they do in cars with 4 wheel steering these days
I suggest drilling out a hex nut to the od of the suspension rods and then welding them some where on each tube. This will let you adjust the length of the rods with a wrench when they are under load.
Nice set up well done but i think you will need to improve the sections below the inboard shock mounts and for rigidity the chassis needs gussets in the load corners sections.😊
Since the suspension tubes are only compressing or stretching, would carbon fiber tubes be a potentially significant weight savings? Or would it be too dangerous given a crash scenario where the carbon would snap rather than bend?
Best channel on UA-cam. No close second. You have a way of making this look easy. Did you explain in earlier video what differential you plan to use? I am sure you are not reusing that welded e55 diff...
Wow man, your work is so precise, I wish to know where to learn all of that sort of things, just for knowing it because car design is so beatiful. Thanks for the extreme quality info
Did you calculate buckling force, as you are saying the LCA with 25 kN tension will break before than the one with 17 kN compression? I made a quick calculation of rear LCA under compression, with S355 steel tube, 0,3m long fixed/pivoted which has 20 mm OD and 16 mm ID, so buckling force will be around 35 kN, which is significantly more than 25 kN of maximum tension force you have calculated.
😂 “cars aren’t designed by people standing around and just looking”. Well truer words have not been spoken! P.S: I thought you weren’t going to give us a physics lesson! 😂
Nice, just for my curiosity, could the springs have been attached on the bottom side of the reinforcement bar to keep them “inboard “ or does the pushrod need to be at a certain angle for effectiveness?
Hi, sterling effort, well done. just a side note here. At around 29 mins you show some footage of the rear sub-frame, I take it this was what you removed from the road car. From what I can see the propshaft flange is on the right of the screen which would make the wheel where you are stood turn in a clockwise direction when driving forward. But then you zoom in whilst talking about the control arm and we can see the brake disc, ("rotor" for all of you who have adopted the Americanised way of naming components), and it would appear by looking at the arc of the cooling vent ribs that the disc is rotating in the wrong direction. Or was it your intention to create heat induce brake fade.
You have a sharp eye. Yeh, these AMG rotors are actually non directional. Both right and left ones are the same so they're not as functional as they look. Haven't noticed any significant temp differences on right and left sides though.
@@xfmotorsports We Road Sweepers in our mature years, even with our 5.5 prescription spectacles, tend to notice the odd thing or two.! Keep up the good work.
If you would like to go even deeper with your explanations it would be great and I think that many will appreciate it! Maybe even do a whole video for nerds only! Great work man!
Totaly agree
Yes please! Very keen to see some more behind the scenes of your suspension calcs.
TOTALLY AGREE
Same here. Fire up a Patreon account. I would totally give you a buck or two per video for in depth analysis and calculations on designing the suspension. It would save me hours from breaking out my old text books and re-learning it.
@@EvelOttos I wouldn't mind neither.
As a mechanical engineer I enjoyed every second of this video. So underrated channel. I'm subscribing!
I just subscribed because of this video. When going through the comments I spotted yours and had to reply to confirm your true words :D.
Software engineers like it too , lol ;-)
Us arm chair engineers also like this!!
What an absolute legend.
I'll be following your project closely and I hope you'll be able to gain enough subscribers to provide significant financial help to fund the future of your project.
Awesome work!
cars are not designed by people standing around and looking. 😂👍 ROFL. You are so right! Great work.
Awesome build. Every single episode is better than the last. Great to see progress and the explanations are always on point.
Your channel really deserves more subscribers😶. Amazing work man. Can't wait to see the final product.
You’re being very brave showing this build and in this much detail as you’re bound to to be criticised by people who think that they know better. Good for you for having the facts to hand to prove that what your doing is correct. Can’t wait to see how you tackle your next set of problems. Keep up the good work.
Loved the explanation at the end, huge credit for being able to back up your decisions with actual calculations and simulation data.
Killer quote: "cars are not designed by people standing around in a circle and looking at something and the judging how strong it is. There are actual methods to calculate how much stress something has to go under....."
Canadian car builder DESTROYS armchair suspension experts with FACTS and CALCULATIONS
I CAN SEE FROM THIS VIDEO THIS CAR IS INADEQUATE. MY PROOF IS MY FEELINGS.
BOOOM
Your comment is paradoxical. By throwing around an epithet like "armchair expert" you are asserting that you yourself are an expert capable of judging the FACTS and CALCULATIONS presented in the video as being true and accurate. Yet you simultaneously insist that nobody else is capable of judging the FACTS and CALCULATIONS and pointing out errors. So you and the guy in the video are the only two people on UA-cam who understand physics or suspension and you are both infallible. He did make FACTual errors in the video. Most notably when he said pushrod suspension reduces unsprung weight. Anything that moves with the wheel is partially unsprung weight. That includes the pushrod and bellcrank. Bolting the coilover across the top of the chassis doesn't make it less a part of the unsprung weight than bolting it directly to the control arm.
@@johnterpack3940 So, are you saying that anything bolted to the chassis is unsprung weight?
@@isaacmadhavan anything that moves with the suspension is unsprung. If it is also bolted to the chassis then it is only partially unsprung.
I'm drooling over the physics explained in your video! :) Facts, Science, Logic & Reason are the undisputed champions in any dispute. Bro-science vs. Physics! Physics wins every time and your patience to educate all the bro's on Reddit and on your channel is extremely appreciated and very valuable. It's never about right or wrong, it's what matters most to making it work properly in the end. Thank you for patiently explaining the suspension design, calculations and formulas, and the graphs in Excel you used to make sure you were within the limits of your design. I am eagerly awaiting to see you race your E55 ASL track monster once your project is all finished. :) Say the word and I'll be there.
Now, it's back to work for me.
That explanations of calculations are best parts of your work. Perfectly engineered
It's been said here before, but after you'd be done with the project, I also would love to see an in-depth video about entire critical calculations that went into the design. I feel there are not many people who could explain it as well as you. I've been watching these videos multiple times already and will continue to do that to remember as much as I can!
And owning the keyboard warriors was simply legendary :)
To many folks trying overthink this for you, its yours to break.... Not to say that it would of course, but your the one doing all the work here! And it looks great! You've done the math and now your doing the work! Cant wait to see this project completed!
Thanks for taking the time to share things in such a detailed manner. I think you have renewed my decision to design/build a pushrod suspension on my project car. I think I was trying to get a little too complicated and you have brought it back to a much simpler approach for me. It's rare to see someone share build steps at this detailed of a level. Please keep it up. Look forward to watching through to your project completion!
You are a patient chap explaining all of this to the armchair experts. Loving the build I can't wait to see it on the track.
This guy is extremely smart and mechanically inclined. He knows what he is talking about!!!
I love how you take the time to explain and show why you did what you did. Most people don't understand how much time and calculations going into make just 1 part let alone a complete system. Great job!!!
I don’t care if this car is going to be fast or slow. I love the engineering works for this car. Respect your works, keep up your good work.
really nice, im finishing my carreer in mechanical engenierring and i would have loved to see this 4 years ago, all your explanations all pretty clear keep on doing it
I like the thing that you explain things with math,with evidence about the actual design.Keep up the hard work
The angle of incidence is equal to the axis of inclination.
As with Billiards or the articulating geometry of a suspension-
there are definable rules and formulas that must be followed.
You are doing an awesome, complex fabrication,
with all the science, math and graphs to point it all out.
Haters are just yankin your chain; pay no mind to their drivel.
Where can I find the study material for these suspensions?
front suspension mounts/ball joints do not look strong enough for CASTER type loads, Especially because SLA suspensions usually have a positive scrub radius, your scrub radius looks very negative.... The greater the scrub radius (positive or negative), the greater the steering effort and the more load it puts on parts and you get more road shock, pivot binding, torque steer, 0 degrees of scub is also bad it will wiggle, 17:44 your changing your scrub radius/ Steering axis inclination/ mechanical leverage
Effective scrub radius appears to be 0, not sure where you think the negative scrub radius is coming from. His steering axis appears to meet the tire center line at least during straight line travel.
He sai that he will have around 40mm positive scrub radius.
Most underrated channel on youtube.
This is one of the best pieces of content I've ever witnessed.
Math and Gravity always win...don’t worry wasting time disputing keyboards warriors and tire kickers.
math and gravity are human concepts. not different from any other argument, im not defending keyboard warriors thoug
@@santiagoperez2094 theyre not "concepts", theyre laws that cannot be broken or disputed.
@@VS666 yahhh no, both are concepts we created to describe the universe, and can be wrong, just like einstein proved in the relative theory. the ¨laws¨ are there ofcourse, but we dont know them, we only can describe them in human language.
pi for example, its a ¨magic¨ number that can be found in almost an infinite amount of forms, and we dont even know why this number exist, but still we use it because its usefull ua-cam.com/video/HEfHFsfGXjs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=3Blue1Brown
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is - Yogi Berra.
This project use physics - where you try to describe the reality through a model, opposite of math that is kept pure theoretical. The reality always win, and the models is always adjusted to the world you observe, this is empiricism and why sceince is evolving. Theory is a shortcut to easen the work, foresight reality and avoid failure.
- sincerly a manufacturing engineer that is parttime behind a computer and parttime on the shopfloor.
This is absolutely amazing! The car will be very fast...
You seem very defensive when addressing your critics. I could be wrong but either way I wouldn't get too upset about them if I were you. Your like to dislike ratio is clear evidence that the vast majority of your audience believes that you know what you're doing.
Thanks for the awesome content. Highly technical custom stuff like this is few and far between.
This thing is gonna be crazy fast when it’s done. Great explanation about the engineering behind it.
Great Project and Good Work. A Plasma Cutter would do wonders interms of getting cuts precise and accurate. Good Job
I’m missing something here...why are the ball joints (used for the front double wishbones) welded / mounted horizontally to the car chassis? Can the suspension actually move up and down in this orientation?
who ever the haters are they have no idea, we use basically the same materials to build suspension, at present the race team is building a new drift car same ball joints, drift puts that front lower arm under massive pressure and they still hold, in fact the only way to go due to the massive aggressive loadings involved would compress most bushes and create play in the steering.
Love the design, very inspiring!
hey.. have you involved with such a competition like formula student? I have done the same calculation as you do, but all the fabrication is done by our university technician. A very well explaination sir.. hats off.
I really like the level of engineering used here. As someone who's fascinated by suspension design I definitely appreciated the level of analysis and reasoning you presented.
Also, thanks for the explanation of the heim joint orientation. I was curious at the start why horizontal was better, more from a consideration of available travel compared to mounting vertically. I hadn't considered that the stress on the ball/socket interface from the longitudinal force on the suspension would be significantly higher compared to having them horizontal.
I really like the fact that you are doing everything yourself, and that you take the time to explain how. Also, you seems really trustworthy when it comes to calculations. As an engineering student, i can only agree with the results you get at the end of the video. Cheers!
I like when you get into the numbers to support your decisions. Love these videos.
I'm a civil engineering student. You make me want to go back and re read all the shit I didn't understand.
Great project,can't say I would be comfortable with some of those welds,especially where the inner damper mount is welded to that X member.
Fantastic work! You've done a great job balancing the technical detail with common sense explanations.
this is the best petrol head channel on youtube
Good follow up to the previous comments, it clears a lot of confusion for people who don’t know this field
Great stuff! Anyone who says this is too light weight, or it will fail when it see the track - Go look at most 60-70's Formula cars, or even stuff like a Mclaren M6. Where this guy is using 12mm rod ends, they used 8mm! Admittedly their fabrication is more aero grade. I reckon your safety factors have a safety factor ;-)
Keep inspection regular and look for cracks. Not sure I like what you're doing at the end of the wishbones.
Looks great and I look forward to catching up with your videos.
What the hell... How am I JUST finding this UA-cam channel??? More people need to see this. I don't know if it's UA-cam's search engine or if you don't have enough tags or descriptions in your titles but your channel should have popped up on my radar a while ago.
Sir you have been one of my inspirations to become a mechanical engineer for automobiles and hadn't it been for my own project car rebuild and being a broke high school student I would fund this project, best of luck tho and for using math to shut these people down and to teach me a couple things on the way :)
Man, looking at all that cutting and drilling, it seems like an abrasive waterjet should be in your future.
Awesome build!
I know its is a ways out, but when you get to making the body panels you should take a look at Street Banditos' channel. One of them is making all the body panel from carbon fiber. I think the process they use might help you out once you get to that point. Love the build man.
Excellent video man. Ignore all the idiots on reddit. Clearly you know what you're doing since you've built and tested these components. Keep the content coming, I'm glued to the screen everytime you put up a new video!! I was going to say I'm an engineer myself and would love more explanations of your calculations, even if you started a second channel dedicated to the maths that would be really awesome!
Great video. Something to consider with your stress analysis is fatigue stress. You appear to have only considered the ultimate capacity of the tube, but in reality if that car will break it will be in fatigue.
This build is insane. I love it. I’ve put a few cages in some Honda oval track cars as well as slight custom Chevy chassis’s for oval and figure 8 tracks. This suspension could be the next big thing for us as in keeping the shocks within the frame rails so that if our wheels do make contact and damage suspension it doesn’t damage a very expensive coilover.
Great video. You mentioned that conventional suspension can only have a linear springrate. That is only partially true as you can just use a progressive spring. That will make it non linear. Keep up the good work 😀
Thomas Ravn progressive springs don’t have the benefits of unsprung mass and also adjustability. They are just a fixed linear rather than adjustable linear. Pushrod looks cool too on camera especially under heavy breaking
@@Swagoi agreed but my point was that you can have a non linear springrate using a conventional setup. I.e. it was not an argument for what is best, only correcting The statement said in the video
@@Swagoi by the way. If you are using the same shock and spring you don't technically remove any sprung mas (with a push rod suspension) as the amount of weight behind the spring is the same or greater. You do however gain where the weight is placed and the possibility to turn the shock and spring movement to another direction than the wheel is moving in to give the same effect as less unsprung mas. At least that is my understanding of it 😀
@11:00 minutes. Just a point of fine craftsmanship. "Fish mouth" your tube ends. It's a requirement in aviation, and a fine point everywhere else. It provides a longer weld surface and is stronger. Easy to do and looks great.
Fine job. I hope it's fast.
“I don’t want to turn this into a physics lesson “
Goes right into kinetic energy translation formula.
Great build man. Have fun going down that rabbit hole of a race car.
I hope an Audi manufacturer finds you on a race team.
Hi sir! Can you suggest me some books or study material where I can learn about all the physics and calculation involved in this.
Great video! I wish you would have also mentioned pull rod suspension and the reason why you didn't go with it.
Mounting the ball joints on the A arms upright instead of flat is quite common in road cars..but also very common on high powered desert cars and it works fine.
Yes, but they usually up size the ball joints to deal with the bending stresses. Same way all the links on the multi link suspension that are under bending stresses are designed much stronger. It's fine for road cars but unnecessary weight in a low travel suspension where the extra travel isn't being used anyways
@@xfmotorsports Yes for road cars that don't require the extra suspension travel it's the best way to mount them.
@@xfmotorsports you could mount them vertically and still have exactly the same forces and loading. You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding what people are suggesting. You could mount them 'vertically' and coaxial, they would not be in bending as you suggest if the mounting bolts were perpendicular to the A arms and the bearing surface loads would be the same. I've met engineers like you before who are so wedded to their own ideas as well as believing they're too bright to be wrong. I've been one myself. I now work on the assumption that I'm wrong until I can prove myself I'm right.. or wrong?
Do you know of any technical report examples that show the coil-over shocks longitudinally mounted as you mentioned at 8:05?
Really amazing build! My favourite on youtube! No clickbate or nonesense, just kickass physics and build skills!. Keep it up!. Maybe you wanna do a pateron page?
OMG! your initial shot lifting the front end panicked me! Don't throw your back out, I'd like to see you finish and race this bad boy!
Good explanations. The one thing that I haven't heard you address directly is the upper ball joints. Yes they were used in a 2 ton E55. But they are UPPER ball joints. Upper ball joints in a double wishbone suspension with a tall knuckle are under almost no stress at all (compare the upper size to the lowers). Of course I am hand waving here but it seems like they could be under MORE stress in your ASL then as an upper in a W211. I guess I'd like to hear the math behind both of those applications.
Thanks for explaining everything about pushrod suspension, very helpful. A different question,what’s the od and thickness of your tubes?they seem like 1.5” tube? Seem pretty beefy.
Is there anywhere I can get more detailed info about the wishbone suspension geometry? I'm working on a reverse trike and I'd like to know how to determine the mounting points for the a-arms.
Is there room to flip the shock over (back to front) so that the air canister is facing down? Is so then you will be able to make the body panel have a lower profile.
Comments full of barstool engineers. Your out there doing it. Most outragous build on you tube . Fairplay .
The whole germany at one side and your engineering at the other. Hattts off.🙌🙌🙌🙌
Why are the lower and upper control arm heim joints mounted 90 degrees from upright? Would they work better being mounted up and down giving full movement?
They would work better if mounted 90 degrees yes. For a suspension that articulated more (such as an off road one) you would want full travel. This being a race car the suspension will probably only travel from that point 5-8 degrees maybe. Plenty of travel for the heims mounted like that. It looks like they were mounted that way because it is the most convenient and gives you better surface area for a weld.
@@zdfnhxfgjnhxfgnj I'm just curious because most race cars that I've seen, asphalt, dirt or what have you have been mounted 90 degrees from what's here. Just my idea that 5-8 degrees wouldn't be enough even on a road course. Could be wrong, more than happy to be wrong. Just learning like everyone else
Why have you made the axes of the rose joints at the inboard end of the front wishbones vertical when the suspension motion requires them to be horizontal?
Don't listen to the arm chair racers, keyboard mechanics and wanna be engineers. You are doing amazing work on this and it is all based on calculations and theory, not a guesstimate. No need to justify yourself to these guys. Half of them couldn't solve a calculation or begin to understand the basic math needed.
Impressive. Looking forward to rear suspension.
Isn't adjusting caster at those points messing with your bump steer? how are you planning on controlling adverse bump steer effects by adjusting the caster at these points?
im currently building a space chassi. what steel are you using? i can only find mild steel?
Love your videos man. Most underrated channel on UA-cam.
where did you get the bearings and bearing housings from? Also the threaded inserts for the heims?
Is there room for the rod ends to move vertically within the mount? It looks pretty tight. I have seen different mounting techniques where the rod ends are mounted in a vertical plane for suspension movement.
You should do an in-depth video about your suspension calculations and simulations, that's the most interesting part of the video to me
Another awesome video.
Thanks for this series.
You should write a book, seriously. Outstanding job!
I think you answered my question from your last video too. I wanted to know how you figured out how far forward (from the engine) you placed the front wheels. During this video you mentioned weighing everything and that allowed you to place them to achieve a 50:50 weight distribution so I guess that was how you worked it out.
Yes, the engine is only a 270kg mass in a 900kg car. Placing that and all other components appropriately still easily leads to a good weight distribution
Is it possible to get a hold of the 3d-design you have for all of this?
Thinking of doing a first gen mustang and turning it into a track beast, and this design would probably fit my ambitions really nicely
id recommend a diagonal support on the suspension box for better load distribution also so u can lower ur complaince make the rockers mounted at nodes and little bit more triangulations maybe u wont be needing that arb with higher chassis stiffness unless u want more adjustable system then go for it
haters gonna hate... welcome to the internet ! good work my man ! I like your channel since you started with the E55 back in the day !
Great work and impressive configuration. Can you post the shock specs: make, model etc? You mention they are motorcycle shocks (conducive to compact design and performance). Thanks,
Nice. Just came across this video/channel. Now my new favourite series. That twin charged engine must be a monster
At 27:08 how can you get this value ? did you use a program or by hand calculation ?
Weak points l see is on square tubing mounting points at rear of lower control arms pushing inward and front pulling outward . Little strengthening will do the trick.
Built go cart many moons ago with similar setup but on rear suspension used additional pushrod connected to normal tie rod position for steering on hub and so created 'steering' by slight offset of balance when cornering basically turning back wheels into the turn and preventing rear end to swing outward.
Had fantastic results with that and nobody knew how l did it at time.
I am 66 years old now and still busy at moment building 350 SB into my Pajero wich l would take for test drive within 2 to 3 days from now.
Anyway l enjoy your informative videos and would love to se end result.
Yeh, the front part still needs to be triangulated. I know its not ideal to leave triangulation to the end but when your still waiting on half the parts to arrive its hard to figure. Great trick with the steering. That's what they do in cars with 4 wheel steering these days
I suggest drilling out a hex nut to the od of the suspension rods and then welding them some where on each tube. This will let you adjust the length of the rods with a wrench when they are under load.
Is there any way you could share the tube specs you ordered from Aaris? I'm gonna follow suit on my ratrod.
Wonderful... do the physics lesson. Suspension has always been some kind of magic for most of us.
Nice set up well done but i think you will need to improve the sections below the inboard shock mounts and for rigidity the chassis needs gussets in the load corners sections.😊
Hi Very nice build! Where can I find the formulas to calculate and build an entire wheel suspension like yours, with push rods from motorbikes? Thanks
Since the suspension tubes are only compressing or stretching, would carbon fiber tubes be a potentially significant weight savings? Or would it be too dangerous given a crash scenario where the carbon would snap rather than bend?
Best channel on UA-cam. No close second. You have a way of making this look easy. Did you explain in earlier video what differential you plan to use? I am sure you are not reusing that welded e55 diff...
Thanks, the welded one was just for one race. Had switched to wavetrac lsd right after
I don't know why I ever thought I could design my own suspension by eye balling it. I'll never be this good at math.
This is amazing. Thanks for documenting this as this stuff is hard to read up on forums
Your videos are the best, and most informative that I’ve seen. Thank you.
An engineering degree😂😂😂 but in all seriousness enough questions to enough enthusiast groups will get you your answer
Wow man, your work is so precise, I wish to know where to learn all of that sort of things, just for knowing it because car design is so beatiful.
Thanks for the extreme quality info
Did you calculate buckling force, as you are saying the LCA with 25 kN tension will break before than the one with 17 kN compression?
I made a quick calculation of rear LCA under compression, with S355 steel tube, 0,3m long fixed/pivoted which has 20 mm OD and 16 mm ID, so buckling force will be around 35 kN, which is significantly more than 25 kN of maximum tension force you have calculated.
You could always upgrade your parts to billet aluminum once the project is done, slow and steady build tho, awesome.
😂 “cars aren’t designed by people standing around and just looking”. Well truer words have not been spoken!
P.S: I thought you weren’t going to give us a physics lesson! 😂
Also I have a query, did you look at open wheel race cars such as formula 1 etc for chassis setup and geometry?
Nice, just for my curiosity, could the springs have been attached on the bottom side of the reinforcement bar to keep them “inboard “ or does the pushrod need to be at a certain angle for effectiveness?
Great video.
I have a question, you said you were using the same spring rate for front and rear. What consideration did you make for weight transfer?
I like the intermittent chuckles when explaining "All I have to do now..."
Hi, sterling effort, well done. just a side note here. At around 29 mins you show some footage of the rear sub-frame, I take it this was what you removed from the road car. From what I can see the propshaft flange is on the right of the screen which would make the wheel where you are stood turn in a clockwise direction when driving forward. But then you zoom in whilst talking about the control arm and we can see the brake disc, ("rotor" for all of you who have adopted the Americanised way of naming components), and it would appear by looking at the arc of the cooling vent ribs that the disc is rotating in the wrong direction. Or was it your intention to create heat induce brake fade.
You have a sharp eye. Yeh, these AMG rotors are actually non directional. Both right and left ones are the same so they're not as functional as they look. Haven't noticed any significant temp differences on right and left sides though.
@@xfmotorsports We Road Sweepers in our mature years, even with our 5.5 prescription spectacles, tend to notice the odd thing or two.! Keep up the good work.