How does weight affect the flight of a disc?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Does weight affect the flight of a disc? To find out, we’re throwing a bunch of discs at higher and lower weights to see how weight affects stability, speed, distance and more..
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I’m amazed this channel is only at 5k. Your voiceovers are silky smooth and the content is very scientific. Easy subscribe, hope to see you gain more followers!
Wow, thank you!
@@SixSidedDiscs I figured out last year why so many people think that lighter means flippier. When you throw 2 discs of the same mold with more than 10-15 grams of difference, the lighter disc tends to "release" out of your hand a bit later. We all know that you don't actually "release" a drive. It just rips out of your hand. With the same grip and throw, heavier discs come out earlier than the lighter ones. This makes the lighter one look like it flips over more.
Would love to see you expand on the topic of torque resistance on forehand throws specifically. For example: do a stable disc that has been beat in to be understable have more torque resistance than a disc that is similarly understable but new? Or, lightweight overstable discs vs. heavy stable/understable discs. Love the series!
That's an interesting and somewhat complex topic indeed. The first question that comes to my mind when a vlogger says 'torque' is, on which axis? Do they mean centrifugal acceleration, forward acceleration or off-axis torque?
I will bag a lightweight version of slightly OS molds, such as my Gateway Diablo. I use that when i want IMMEDIATE flip to avoid an obstacle but not burn completely over, since the mold itself is stable. A heavier, flippy disc, tends to turn later in flight and might hit the obstacle I'm avoiding with the light disc.
Basically, I feel that a lightweight OS mold gives a dramatic S curve flight because it will both turn and fade, but heavy US molds will just flip and turn without and opportunity for fade. Different shot shapes and utility.
Oh, I like the later turn and earlier flip idea.
interesting take. I am not skilled enough to think on this level, but I love it.
Old guy here. I do find, as you did, that the lighter weights get me a little more distance. But overall I can achieve similar distances to my heavier discs with less effort. The result for me, anecdotal only, is that I recover more quickly than if I play a round with only heavier discs. Whether that's real data or just in my head I've been more competitive, been able to play more often and in general enjoyed the game more by changing to lighter weights in the last year or so. Great video!
I find that 160g-165g is the sweet spot for MVP discs. But the sweet spot for other brands are their translucent plastic at 160g-170g. I’m also a noddle arm so 😂
Great video! As a senior disc golfer, lighter discs are much easier to throw. I do not have enough arm speed to throw max-weight discs unless they are putters. By the way, I am able to forehand throw lightweight discs without much problem with them turning and burning.
A good overstable light weight disc can be a fun thing to throw
But hard to find
Triology are pushing some Lucid/Opto/VIP Air right now. My 155g Lucid Air Felon is coming out faster from the hand but dumps harder than my full weight fuzion one ;)
Dude, I have an old gstar orc it's so floppy lol😊
Flippy... But also floppy
So much fun, my Flick is a meathook but it's only 155g
I'd love to see a video comparing light weight vs max weight discs in the wind. How much of a difference is there in the flights when you are throwing into say a headwind?
Head wind is the equivalent of throwing faster. So a lighter weight disc will get to that tipping point of being way too understable more easily into a head wind.
@@rudylopez262Yep this is the problem in MN. It's so windy here most days, I have to throw max weight discs so regularly despite my arm speed limitations. I can pull out the 150-160 g discs on the rare days it's not windy though (Jade, River)
The flight of disc is same on all weights. It is all about arm speed. Faster arm speed needs heavier disc and slower are needs lighter disc. Flight pattern stays same. Slower arm lighter disc better snap. Slow arm heavy weight slower snap.
My question is that is it easier to get the flight you want by getting different weights or just stay with a consistent weight and get disks with different speeds and flight paths.
I have been loving this series!! Would love to see an episode to sus out Glide. Specifically, analyze measured speed vs. time in the air and ultimately distance. I understand there are more variables to consider to get a meaningfull conclusion for the data. There would have to be very little no wind, height of the throw, you would have to have a flat and domey version of the same disc, same weight ect ect. As I write this I am understanding how tough this one would be. But would be cool if you could pull it off.
all the best
I'd love to see a machine for throwing discs that you could adjust and lock in release angle and speed. Then, presuming it delivers consistent results, you can really see what discs do and take the human factor out of it all.
Like the ones that hit golf balls. Invent one for disc golf and you'll become a millionaire!
GREAT IDEA!!!
I consistently hit 400 ft with my 155g destroyer. I can throw a Max weight destroyer 375 at best. They’re easier to turnover and fly faster. Archer vs arrow debate
160g Fireball --> Perfect Forehand Lightweight Disc. Compareable to a felon - just a little bit shorter. But nonetheless as stable.
I’m gonna give this a shot thank you
I only really throw max weight for two reasons. The first is that I learned to play disc golf with max weight discs and any time I pick up anything light it messes up my release really bad. The other reason I don't throw light weight is because i live in Texas and and we can sometimes get winds up to 30 mph
Partner with Mark Rober to build a “Disc Thrower” that will reduce the human error on throws. Then use the scientific method to gain results and data.
I have been told to throw lighter discs in uphill scenarios. Is it just that throwing upwards negate understability?
I recently started buying lighter weight discs ~150g. I'm a newbie and wanted a little more distance. I'm currently at 170 to 200'.
The lighter weight discs I bought were in higher speeds than I normally throw. I typically can only throw a speed 6.5 or 7 once it's beat in. My new lighter weight speed 7 flies like a dream. likewise, I also picked up a light weight speed 9 that works well for me.
being able to throw the higher speed discs nets me more glide and greater distance with less energy.
I think as I get better and am able to get faster arm speed (I'm currently pretty slow), I'll outgrow the lighter discs. But I'm enjoying them at the moment.
Thanks for the great video.
Interesting, thanks everyone!
I have a light Latitude 64 Jade, which as a newer golfer, flies well for me if I get the release angle right. It's one of my better distance discs.
Like the Jade and Fury
I love the experiment idea! Thank you for testing something we are all wondering about. I also appreciate the way you tested this and your results are very helpful. Thank you!
Great video and channel, thank you. I’m 72 years old. When I retired at 62 I began to play very regularly and used only max weight discs and achieved great results. After conquering some age related health issues, I found I could no longer get the same results. I tried lighter discs in the same molds and recovered my lost results. Keep up the good work and Godspeed.
Good to know! I am going through some of the same issues. I am trying to update my bag and transition away from last centuries plastic. Thanks.
I throw light weight disc when throwing upp hill and tail wind and sometimes when there is no wind…
Normally don´t throw them when it is windy or I throw to deep down hill.
i think 1/3rd of my bag is lighter than 170g. In my oppinion lighter discs have potential on distance but they allso stall faster than heavyer discs. I just say bigger difference is knowing your discs how it fly. I would say my favorite weight on faster discs is 168-171g / mids max weight / putters max weight. i think lightest discs i have bagged has been 152g fission grave, R.i.p. lost it on windyer day on whole you should never lose discs.
My thoughts and how my bag looks exactly.
lightweight + stable is the key. 145g tesla has the stability to add easy distance to shots compared to my 170-175g Teslas. Light weight discs also have higher high speed stability so "turn" quicker - which results in the disc fading later or more delayed low speed stability for extra distance (straight longer). Find the combination of speed + stability in a mold & plastic that compliments a player's release velocity and light speed discs can be a great option for someone. I found a 160g Tesla just didn't have enough of a difference to compliment the higher weight Tesla's I throw. There's like a 15g-25g difference sweet spot to figure out - idk.
My experience with lightweight discs is that I tend to late release them. I think less mass means it doesn't "rip" out of my hand at the same moment because the increase in speed doesn't have an equal effect to inertia as the loss in mass relative to my grip compared to my other max weight discs. Just a theory
I agree with this theory. Ive experimented with lighter discs and I can get more distance with less effort but griplock becomes an issue. The pros I understand use max weight typically for this consistent release and predictablity.
I throw lighter weight discs generally and when I do throw a heavier disc it wants to come out early. I think there's something to be said for throwing similar weighted discs.
My 164g GStar Destroyer is an absolute workhorse, FH and BH. Great content!
Wind is important in this discussion. I carry light and heavy versions of the same drivers, light for drives that I can get the wind under the flight plate; heavy for battling headwinds. Great production values here! I'm subscribing !
I think it would be more informative to throw less discs and more throws with the same discs. Not that there isn't value in a large number different molds, but when you perform a single throw with one disc, and it's a bad throw, it tells us nothing. There has to be repeatability, as well as a high enough success rate to glean data from testing.
Also I think there's less value in having a complete novice throw a disc, than maybe a higher skilled rec-level player perform a set of tests. Then you want an advanced or open player perform the same tests with the same discs. Make the number of throws with each disc 10 times.
In testing, I wouldn't eliminate any of the top end throws, but maybe the bottom 3 throws, or any throws that clearly (upon inspection) were off the line would be removed outright, even if that number of them exceeds 3. You could note if there were any discs that were unusually hard to hit their lines with.
Lastly, when I do my reviews and comparisons, I'm actually throwing at least 10 times each, and recording every throw. I use the best throws for each release (ex: hyzer) and launch (ex: nose-up) angle that exemplify what I was going for in my reviews. For comparisons I match up the flight paths between the models so they better show differences on similar lines. If a disc burns out because it was too understable, I didn't use the right release angle, so I have to rethrow so the disc gets more of a full flight.
As always, I love your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for investing in this study! Great content!👏
Great video. I enjoyed the experiment.
Most of my discs are under 160. But my 160-170 discs, go farther for me because they rip out of my hand. I have a problem of grip locking my lighter discs.
Forehands flipping over has absolutely nothing to do with torque resistance. Forehand have less spin therefore less gyroscopic stability to keep the disc from flipping over
I can tell you respectfully that the flight number and weight do matter.. I’m a pro disc golfer and play with the most famous people all over the world.. I also have a big community of myself and I’m also sign to a big company Backyard.. Lease don’t give out false information about ufo.. I’ll really appreciate it. thank you.. ps green grass is blue on the other side..
Gotta love real science being done! Incidentally, if you want a light weight disc that's a blast to throw forehand, try the 150 glass Discraft Flick. It's such silly fun!
😂😂 that intro was gold. So true
male 5'11 230 lb over 50. semi-athletic at best. been playing very casually for decades. if I throw anything over 155 or so, it feels very heavy in the hand and just hyzers out too fast. I'm finally figuring some things out about my game. after all these years. I'm usually throwing something with a max speed of nine or so, slightly understable, and not over 155 g. My max distance is around 250 ft.
Flight numbers don't matter to the disc, per se. However, they can matter to the individual. Just as well, disc weight doesn't matter either. In the end, stability is key. No matter experience/power, the answer is to experiment and find the discs that have the stability that fit the individual.
It depends on what shot shape I’m looking for. But typically I find 170-172g drivers to fit my arm the best. That weight feels light enough to be able to manipulate the flight for release angles but heavy enough to be reliable.
Absolutely 167-173 fairways and drivers, 172g-176g putters and mids. Never let me down so far!
I carry Katanas: 144 (floater) - flippy as heck even downwind, 155 - downwind distance, 175 - headwind distance, 181 - anchor for my boat
I am 62, been playing five years and can throw about 275 on a good day - speed matters!
I'm primarily a forehand guy, especially when driving so that last bit really helped out. I mostly use discs that are 165-175 and they just feel more comfortable for me.
I think that this study is... Good but flawed.
You need to throw them different. Throwing them the exact same will be wasting the extra mph you gain from the lighter weight. The whole point of lighter discs is increased velocity.
I think the answer is undoubtedly 'lighter discs fly faster but you need to account for the increased velocity.
Thank you so much for all of the hard work and analysis, I'm super impressed!!!
I'm a mediocre Right hand backhander (Hence my channel full of my Mediocre MTB riding, not Disc throwing... If asked what I do for fun, I say... "I throw plastic at trees"
In my tiny (currently reduced) bag of 8 (Helps with my memory of a goldfish that I can count after each hole and realize I left one back there somewhere)...
...I have a beat up base plastic Innova Beast (DX I guess, full torso Minotaur on pink) and a (ok it's out in the van and its cold.. and night.. and I'm lazy so there it stays... so I THINK...) Champion Beast (possibly Barry Schultz) with no Minotaur.. in green Gel. Both about 175g, both 10, 5, -2, 2
The DX I have to Hyzer nearly 45 deg down. The Champion I slight Anhyzer.
My longest "accurate" shots are with the Champion. (about 330ft, A new Zealand Rugby field... 100m).
I'm probably 30+ ft shorter with the older beat up, more unstable Beast...
I guess where I'm going with that... is
sort of confirming 'The numbers don't matter" as these 2 disks, by the numbers, should be exactly the same... but by the plastic and amount of beatings... they behave very differently.
The Champion quite stable (only in headwinds can it catch me and flip over (though usually manages to turn back
I am more consistent at distance with a stable disk Anhyzer, than a less predictable flip disk... and even if I get a flip right... the champions roll from anhyzer to hyzer still goes further for me than any hyzer to anhyzer and back to hyzer "S" path I have made with any other disks (mine or others)...
And to add to the Numbers don't count... I have a 2021 Trilogy Challenge (SPZ3(Superhero) that is supposed to be a 9, 6, -2, 2.... but flies straight as an arrow when thrown flat with barely a fade left at the end.. and nearly 300ft.
None of my lighter disks get anywhere near the heavier ones (without wandering off to examine the countryside.
My 138g boss (13/5/-1/3)feels genuinely weird, cause it feels floatier and much less like its piercing the wind like my max weight crank(13/5/-2/2). But my 164g wave (11/5/-2/2) feels like my disc thats peircing the air most. But my max weight star and champ mystere (11/6/-2/2) feel much like they ride the wind. Meanwhile My wave is the least stable and my crank and boss are similar in stability with my mystere's in between.
I find its mostly the difference in speed of disc thst changes how flippy it is in a lighter weight. I don't know for sure if thats the case, but I think it is likely
Outstanding work done to create such an informative, data driven video. Thanks!
I generally stay close to max weight for all my discs. They're just more reliable and they difference you see in distance here is mostly due to stability not the weight itself. So I'd rather just have a slightly less stable disc at max weight than just a lighter disc.
I mean we can do a bit of napkin math here... Let's say there's a 4mph difference, let's do a base speed of 50 with a max weight driver and that gives us 54 with a lighter disc let's say 160g... Let's quickly convert that to more standard units, 0.175kg | 0.160kg and 22.352m/s | 24.1402m/s. The momentum (p) of the max weight disc out of the hand would be 0.175x22.352=3.9116 while for the lightweight disc p=0.160x24.1402=3.862432...
To put it simply, the heavier disc in this example carries a greater momentum.and should therefore go further assuming identical flight. Although there are some other factors here unaccounted for such as the glide of the disc which in theory should be ever so slightly greater on the lightweight disc, potentially making up for the lost momentum.
A lighter disc is also more easily affected by external forces like wind or air resistance, this means it'll lose speed faster in a headwind, but it will also get "carried" further by a tailwind.
Main takeaway is that there's practically no difference due to actual weight, it's all in the stability and/or wind conditions...
Well done piece. Since 2016 I've been throwing drivers under 160 due to shoulder injury. It's all dependent on who's throwing and at what speed and angle. Then you have degree of wind - stiff headwind ? Ouch. Fluttery tailwind - new record ! Plastic type - Halo Star is stiff, DX is not, you know...variables. Next vid - how does premium compare to base in a lightweight disc ? How does a premium light disc compare to a base plastic heavier disc ? Loved the customer simulation to open the clip - 🏆
For my max distance throws, I use a ~170g Innova Star Wraith or a ~155 MVP Fission Photon. The wraith gets used for forehands and light headwind while the Photon is used for calm or downwind throws.
The Wraith will flip to flat, hold, then fade. Rarely will it turn all the way over for me.
The Photon will flip over slightly, then fade giving me the classic S shaped drive. This has been my furthest flying disc. I have to watch out when throwing this into a slight headwind because it can turn over too far. One day when I don't have the wraith anymore, I'll probably get a heavier version of the Photon to be the more stable version for slight headwind throws.
Ripping 20 mph headwinds get the Axiom Fireball and ripping tailwinds get a very flippy and lightweight Innova Sidewinder. I never get the fireball to flip over into the headwind and the Sidewinder will give a perfect S shot into a hard tailwind.
Ever since I started playing disc golf, I've had a max weight Innova Roc in my bag. I have a champion plastic version right now which I am breaking in and it meathooks at the end very well. It'll give a solid straight flight, then hockey stick.
My Innova Mako 3 is my straight shooter with minimal fade. Great for precise throwing.
MVP Vertex for US mid range.
Fairway drivers:
MVP Relay for US
MVP Servo for general duty
Then Fireball or Roc3 for OS
MVP Anode for putting.
Using tech disc, forehand is proven to always have less spin, and that's literally everyone (watch OT), not just me. Less spin makes a disc more understable, so combine that knowledge with a lighter disc, and you have little control of forehand.
For a more scientific overview, ua-cam.com/video/CvpdTf_FjjM/v-deo.html
Points:
1g = 2.35 ft distance
20g = 6 mph faster.
130g disc used for distance record
110g (or something close) set speed record at 95 mph
It isn't true that lighter discs are less stable. However since the MPH is faster, naturally, they turn over more. So when throwing lighter discs, that will be going faster, choose more stable discs to compensate.
Just a question. When you say “speed” are you including the spin, the rpm/ foot of distance? Or is it just the radar? I think generating spin is my issue. At least with forehand throws. I can only use 174 and overstable to get them to spin flat then dive at about 200’. They end right at about 300’. Consistently. I think I need more spin. I want 400 power.
I honestly don't pay much attention to weight, my old consistent putter was 150g but I didn't know this was low until recently. I only looked into this more because they had weight choices in buying a disc online. I tend to through forehand almost always though, maybe I should find an extra heavy one? :P It would actually explain why when I try and forehand that putter it does some crazy things... well that and my overall lack of consistency.
I am an intermediate arm speed. Anecdotally, I prefer slower discs to be all max weight. I also prefer understable molds to be max weight or 170+, as they will perform better in wind. Over 10 speed I throw some lighter weights, like my 167g destroyer. I do bag a 154g diamond for some special utility shots! Blizzard Boss can have some great stability even at 155g. So mold v weight is a consideration for me.
Dont understand the "flight numbers dint work". Throw the disc that is in your max distance area. 300 foot arms throw disc in 300 foot area. 400 ft throw 400 ft disc. If you have a 250 arm why you try to throw a 400 foot disc. Not going to get proper flight, arm is to slow. Simple
I have a 157g paul mcbeth destroyer that is insanely overstable, when I first threw it I was like wtf is this, black magic?
Overhand throws with really light understable discs are interesting....They essentially turn into Aerobie Epics.
btw. I'd be willing to pay a lot for a 150 g Flick to try as a forehand disk :-D
When it comes to forehands and maximum distance lines. there's still some scarcity with stable to overstable discs in light weights. Many manufacturers don't seem to produce light discs with faster throwers in mind.
In my experience, the molds that work well for forehands do that in lower weights too, although they do penalise you for bad form a little more and obviously will turn more due to the added velocity. Photon and Octane are both very good forehand discs in all weights. Octane is a flip-up driver in 160 class, but Photon is actually slightly overstable even in high 150's. I just got a 150-class Octane in the mail and will hopefully get to throw it this week, the profile looks very similar to 160-gram Octanes so it could be a bomber.
Wave, Crave and Proxy on the other hand are somewhat touchy discs even in max weight, so there's no reason to expect them to fly more stable in lower weights. They're definitely throwable, but not huckable. The Blizzard Destroyer was a fun one. Because biggest bubbles are in the rim, it flies like the opposite of a Gyro disc with a fast turn out of the hand and then starts immediately dumping as it slows down. It was stable enough so not very hard to throw, but funny as hell!
Differences in profile between runs is something you really need to pay attention to when buying light discs for max power/forehand throws. MVP is still making tweaks and looking for the consistent process for their Fission discs and there are some odd runs that fly very differently. Most of the time a quick look at the wing gives you a hint if a particular disc is an outlier.
I'd still put classic McBeth throwing 167g Star Destroyers and approaching with Novas up against anyone throwing any plastic yet. I could be wrong, but that was a Deadly Era for sure. Love watching lighter weight drivers fly!
"Sorry, that's a 166gr. I'm looking for a 167gr"...Man, that made me laugh. We all know those guys, don't we?
I’ve also walked away from a sale because weights weren’t there for me. To give that dude any benefit of the doubt, maybe 168 was his minimum threshold, 167 was the pushing it but acceptable, and 166 was just TOOO low for him, especially if a player is used to throwing max weight already. In Austin, there are multiple shop keeps who agree that once you go beyond five grams in either direction “it might as well be a different disc”. Fortunately my own threshold has expanded since I’ve gotten better at the game, but I can certainly understand that sentiment.
Gannon Buhr said that his "go-to" max distance driver was 165/6 grams. I've found that lighter weight discs in UNDER-stable molds tend to be problematic. It's very easy to overpower the disc if you don't adjust the angle of release and it will end up a roller. Lighter weight discs in OVER-stable molds will allow a thrower to achieve the needed velocity to get the disc to fly as it was intended. The actual speed of the disc out of your hand is the most important factor. If you are a newer player (intermediate and below), find what weight you throw the fastest and then find a disc that fits your throw. Don't adjust your throw to fit the disc. If you are more skilled with angles, going with lighter weights can open up a bunch of new possibilities.
You need a throwing machine, like for clay shooting, so that you can have thoroughly consistent throws. Eliminate the human element.
My discs are light because I'm still on a starter set (discmania active soft 150-159g).The putter and mid flip anytime I give them the beans, but consistently, so I can work with that. I can forehand them gently for short approaches, but a good flick turns them into a roller every time. Can't really speak to the driver as I still throw my putter further!
My lightest disc is a 147g Star Tern from innova. It flips up super easy, but has enough fight in it to come back at the end. At least for my noodle arm that’s what it does. I can get it to fly about 300 feet, which is good for me. I had to switch to left handed throws because I destroyed my right shoulder last year and needed surgery. I’m still struggling to get back into right handed throwing, so light weight discs are crucial for me.
I gave my girlfriend a 150 gram old pfn leopard and she bombs that thing for legit never having played before. Only problem now we can't lose it because it would be legitimately impossible to replace lol. But speaking of weight she also has a almost max weight destroyer that I've seen get throw at least 250 if not really close to 300... fuck the weight how does she throw a leopard and a destroyer just as far as each other and only having played basically 2 or 3 times and it goes 300 hahahahahaha. You ever get jealous of someone but you gotta pretend like you're not? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can only speak for myself, but I am one of those dudes who is bent on the numbers. Can’t help to feel as if those who say they don’t matter are also the ones who would compare something like a BUZZZ with a Roc and say they’re practically the same disc - NO they’re NOT. I have evolved my game to focus on consistency in my flat release when I throw, so I can rely on the design of the disc to fly the way it was designed to, and not have to worry too much about how much heiser flip or flex I need to add, because it gets exhausting after too long. I have invested in the specific discs that give me all the lines I know I need, and have at least one lighter and one heavier of the same disc. Only discs I don’t have doubles or triples of when I play are putters; right now it’s one Judge, one Maiden, and one Harp. All premium plastics nowadays because I simply cannot rely on consistency in baseline plastics anymore, especially DX; Once they’re broken in, they’re personally useless to me, so I’ve quit purchasing BT, DX or Origio because they get beat up too quickly.
This topic is always mildly annoying because it's ALWAYS just a measurement of distance. In reality you're sacrificying accuracy and consistency for a bit more distance, and anyone who thinks that's a good trade in any golf sport is going to find themselves stuck at beginner levels far longer - not just because they're investing in unreliable light weight discs, but they're also reinforcing bad form and failing to get accustomed to more reliable max weight discs, which is a key stepping stone towards getting towards intermediate level.
There's a *reason* every single good player on earth uses 170g+ discs and every manufacturer primarily makes discs in this weight. It's because this is the optimal weight for disc golf discs.
A *much* better measurement on this topic would be grouping (throw a bunch of times and see how consistent they are, particularly in wind). This has been done, and the results were extremely clear.
When you starf off bowling, nobody tells you to throw 8 pound balls because it's easier. They tell you to practice with a 15 pound ball until you develop the form and muscles to use it properly.
Only playing since January and I was going to start experimenting. Good thing I like MVP/Axion 🇺🇸👍🏻
Or here's an alternate theory for your interpretation of the data: wind resistance increases to the square of speed increase. (physics-101)
the faster a disc is thrown, the more speed it will shed initially, and can result in similar distance. I'm also not 100% convinced that 2 discs in the same plastic, but one having a thinner membrane (flight plate), or 2 discs in different plastics (air bubble versus standard), will have identical dome and flight characteristics. you'd need to compare a bubbles plastic in it's max weight with a non-bubbles plastic at it's minimum weight (ie: same weight for both), in order to see if they even fly similar - although even there, the materials will have different mechanical properties, because the bubbles disc would be slightly thicker and stiffer (think of how hollowed structures, such as the honeycomb pattern, used in some aerospace wings, have insane rigidity to weight ratios), so maybe a 5-10g difference to do that comparison. Also, scientific rigor would have you throw each disc 3 times by the same person, and average those results.
I’m a new player and throw a 138 blizzard plastic ape and a 138 blizzard destroyer very stable forehand. I’m also left handed.
Its basically always windy when I play, so I'm sticking to the 168-175 range. Heavier for my mids because theyre so sensitive to release angle and heavier discs will be more forgiving.
My putters are all 170-175, and every else is 165 to 173. Mostly, I try to stay within a few grams of 170 with a assymetric 2 tail distribution extending a little lower than higher. Also never trust a weight that's on the disc.
I love the "flight numbers don't matter" serie!
i've bought too many discs just cuz i want to try them out and to be honest, flight numbers don't matter.
would be nice if you could compare weight on more overstable molds like Destroyers and simular molds.
The molds you compared in this video already had som understability to them.
love the work you do!
This is a great series. I love how you back everything up with data.
I'm in my sixties and do better with understable drivers in the 150's.
These discs along with understable midranges are next to impossible to find. Always sold out. Seems like manufacturers would notice this and make more.
The best company I've found for light weight discs is latitude 64 with their opto air plastic in several of their moulds. Im able to throw further (240 feet) but I've only been out throwing 7 to 10 times due to ill health. But regardless of the discs or how often I can get out I enjoy it every time. God bless
I started playing a year ago, and I bought two starter sets: Innova and Dynamic Discs. The Innovas were all between 141 and 148 grams; the DDs were all 170+. Playing with both for a month, the Innovas were noticeably easier to throw and went farther than the DDs. I’ve since played with several brands; in general, 165 and lower are easier to throw and go farther. However, my lightest disc is a 134-gram Innova Boss in Blizzard Champion plastic; it has not been easy to throw and does not go as far. As for the stability issue, I have found that overstable discs have more predictable flights, but they don’t go as far for me, even on forehand throws. I also haven’t seen any difference with the wind, except with a tailwind; understable discs get knocked down quicker than overstable discs. Keep up the great work! Love your data-driven analyses.
I throw lighter discs. Why? Because I'm in my late 60s. I have been playing since the late 1980s and lighter discs are easier for my older, slower arm.
For me heavier discs play father because the light discs turn over incredibly quickly and die out. However, I have thrown some meat hooks that were mid 60s instead of 70s and they go further with backhand.
Being a senior player lighter is much better and by coincidence the crave fission is my favorite then the signal. The crave is 151 grams the signal is 156 grams. In a heavy wind both will become very understandable but the crave will fade back.
I've tried lighter discs but they did not work for me. Yes, they leave faster but they are not nearly as consistent as heavier discs.
Also to get extra distance you have to have just right weight with right speed with right wind = perfect throw with perfect conditions = almost never happens.
The minute disc starts to turn over too much, consistency goes out the window and scores plummet. And lighter discs are more understable.
Heavy discs also have more inertia so they cut through wind better and they are not so finicky once you get them going.
In theory they can go further, but in reality too many things have to be perfect for that to happen.
So to get better scores, heavy discs are definetely for me.
So the way to look at light weight. If it is a speed 9 disc and you have a speed 7 speed arm a lightweight will help you close that gap. To many including myself light weights feel better.
So, the heat and the sail are two very very understable discs to begin with and the sails listed speed is drastically over estimated and is closer to a speed 7-8 with a glide of forever(seriously there is a reason called a sail). Anyway, both discs being understable with very low torque resistance causes these discs to turn over or become rollers without much effort for anyone intermediate and above. IMO, probably not the best disc choice for providing accurate data for the type of research you are trying to prove/disprove really. AMAZING discs for beginners wanting to dabble with some drivers for the first time. Though to fully show the difference weight can have I'd suggest choosing three discs in the same class (driver, fairway, mid, etc..) with each disc having its counterpart in weight while also having similar discs with its opposite in stability. I believe the data will show unless you are part of the top small percentile of elites that NEED max weight the rest of us mere mortals and the majority of players will find throwing lighter discs when they are over-stable and stable will yield greater distance, and the lighter under-stable discs will show most benefit when throwing a very specific shot i.e. a powered down drive with a long sweeping anny, or a slow steady hyzer-flip that you need to flip up to flat and continue going straight until it slowly starts to fade to the right at the end of the flight.
Try some overstable discs in light weights. These were all flippy discs regardless of weight you know like the flight numbers say they are 😊. Try like a destroyer or firebird zone toro felon. Xcal whatever normally super beafy discs you can find in light weights.
Lighter discs are great for hyzer flips if the hand is not at pro level speed. I flip 155 MVP Wawe easily with backhand, which is not so easy to do with 170
Using beginners for data isn't all that valuable. Anecdotal evidence at best imo. A lighter bag is okay for a beginner but if you want a consistent snap you need to have a consistent weight. Ive experimented with lighter weights and distance is easier to get but you sacrifice consistency especially if your weights are all over the place. I still keep my light discs
I throw lighter weight 167-169 for flex turnover shots. I seem to get more distance out of them when I can predict the turnover angle, and work the disc from left to right to left. And I have to use less effort to get to the point I’m needing. Not all of my discs are this weight, I use more Overstable max weight for more technical wooded courses.
I have been playing for 10 plus years. I do not have a fast arm. I can only achieve full flight with disc's lower than 165 on a consistent basis. If I take the same mold at max weight I do not achieve the big S.
In my bag I try to keep all of my discs at 170-175 to make sure I don't have discs which overlap.
There are some mint discs runs, mainly Goats and my 167g diamondback are more stable than their #'s. The lighter weights are more beefy than the max weights in my experience.
If it's an understable disc you def don't want anything light. OS or high speed stuff 165-170 is fun though
MVP fission octane is my farthest flying disc. When I found one weighing in at 163 I had to try it, and then it instantly became my farthest flying disc. Forehand I have to put it on some hyzer to flip up. Just gets a full flight/s curve I couldn’t quite get with max weight. I throw it about 350-370 for reference and I’ve been playing for years
I'm a bit of a tinkered. One of these days, I want to make a machine that can co sistantly "throw" disks at variable speed and angle release. Fund me? Thanks for the cool topic!
I love your content.. May I ask why you don't feature much Trilogy? Just a preference?
I throw a blizzard champ wraith FH with no problems. Can throw 350-375 with a FH
Is you disc overstable and it's a problem? Get a lighter one, or get a beat-in one, or get a lighter beat-in one. Beginners who only have 5 speed arm speed can throw 12 speed discs if they are lightweight and beat in - they can get a full flight and it will be aerodynamic enough to be worth it for distance!
with that forehand form everything but a firebird/equivalent would turn over lol. try releasing on hyzer
I realize stable light disc is more under stable but use it to hyzer flip is great and also it’s not so good for windy days… I rather use 173g to 176g and use under stable disc or stable disc to hyzer flip and it’s way better..
idk i preffer 155-165g discs for backhand, and 170+ for forehand
Sweet vid! Interesting stuff!
Lmao... 167 is my favorite weight. I throw a mix of weights. Depends on feel and use of disc
If you are a beginner i suggest you get max weight. If you put in the work you will find yourself outgrowing those lightweight disc after a year or 2. You can save some money by throwing putters and mids that are great for all experience levels.