herny.carrd.co/ these are all my links! Hey guys, I missed y'all (: Let me know your thoughts!Hope you've been alright & I'll see y'all soon. #monsterhunter #rise #sunbreak
To me, Rise is more of an experimental entry in the series, where they took the base of World's quality of life improvements and tried to see how crazier they can make the combat with elements and flavor from GU, and are using the feedback for the next main entry. The combat has intensified due to the amount of mobility wirebugs give you in contrast to the more stiff controls of previous games, resulting in the monsters needing more aggressiveness to compensate. Good video as always!
For sure, I honestly really liked the elements that they took from GU, & implemented into world in a more grounded sense. I assume they’ll do the same with Sunbreak. There’s actually many elements from Sunbreak I hope they keep in MH6 (or w/e they make) but just slightly toned down. I enjoy all the spice and the flashy stuff, I just don’t want it to go tooooo far lol & Thank you my man I really enjoy your videos 🤌🏽
if they wanted fan feedback, rise wouldn’t have been made the way it is. clutch claw was extremely controversial as was the lack of difficulty and gimmicky bosses like alatreon judgement and they doubled down on it here.
@@aiellamorisome switch skills are there to compensate for player skill, to give people an easier time Though I agree they can go a bit crazy on the switch skill and introduce a lot more variety with different styles of gameplay mind
I love the switch skills and the movility that the wirefall and all the movility it gives. Same with the clutch claw and Sling. I think some form of all that Will transpire into the New mainline series... Thats how it has alwais been: they add new things, that things get out of hand and then they get some of them again for the next installmen... And some just dissapear
Always a nicer day when you drop a vid ^^ Good job putting together the thoughts that a good amount of us feel :) I love me some classic cheeseburgers myself.
MH is a series that I want to see switch it up with every entry, including going back to basics sometimes. Keeps the game fresh and gives each title its own identity.
How would going back to basics make a new entry unique? Thats literally just regression towards a previous title that already exists. I'm asking because if we can ask the right questions then we can truly get to an answer that fixes the actual problem. what exactly are we looking for in a new title?
@@nicjolas I assume they mean making games that have some extra skills to use like GU and Rise, but also still making games that don’t have those extra flashy bits too. Doesn’t make every single game unique, but mixing it up every once in a while can help keep things fresh
Cause it's fresh at the time. Same reason why COD started going futuristic and then went back. People want to experience new things, and sometimes, having the old realiable with current graphics is all you want after 5 years of trying new things. But it's not really a problem, since MH has been doing this from the start. They make an OG game, they make another game with an experimental mechanic, maybe two games, and then they release another OG game.@@nicjolas
Something that used to be really important in monster hunter, before we got all the counters and long s, was positioning. It is still something you gotta think about, but not as much as you used to back before generations.
@@Koijn2K i know and in my opinion 30 seconds of running around a monster until you get to the right position for channeling your attack is really boring. i prefer using the wirebug for jumping to the position. it let's me fight earlier again.
@@blackyraypatrick9041 Positioning isn't running around until you see an opening, it's knowing an opening is coming so you don't need to run all the time.
Pobo! We also need the one and only Pobo (-rubarumu)! I am astonished how we have managed to play through all these games without being blessed by the presence of this adorable Akantor shaped hunting horn whale. Honestly there are a lot of Frontier Monsters that have interesting and unique concepts that would add way more value than 70% of the World additions. Sadly the only Frontier ports to date are Lavasioth and Espinas, which imo are quite lacking compared to what could've been.
Honestly i loved the Sling thing from World, i felt that it became a little too much when we got the Clutch Claw but i liked the way we could use it to interact it with our weapons and monsters so for me it was the best weve got so far...
My only real gripe with it is that it forced armor to have one gauntlet different than the other, but an version that doesn’t intrude on armor design would be great. Also clutch claw would need a rebalance/rework. It shouldn’t be a necessary mechanic to avoid bloated time.
I agree with the slingshots stuff and I also didn't really like the clutch claw part. I found it fun to slam monsters into walls like the silk spider in rise(can't rmb the name, marionette?) Because those felt limited. whereas the clutch claw was "anytime I see the not enraged symbol".
@@wits_end. All events that were once limited time are available now, there's no need to mod. You DO need to be connected to the internet, though, which is bullshit.
@@Sephyroth97 Not quite. There are some events that were removed, like the MonHun movie one that gave the Artemis armor set, and the Assassin Creed one to get the hood. As someone who started playing very recently, this was very disappointing.
As much as I've enjoyed Rise, I still feel the strongest about my time playing tri and 4u, and that I really miss how much less complicated and flashy it was
@@Hibernial Athena's fish finder my friend. It sounds daunting but it's really not that bad. I've been playing on my character I made back when I was a kid in 2013 and only recently figured out what table I have. Table 7 is a mid table but that hasn't stopped me from maxing my build as much as I can. 3U is an amazing game and still has a couple dozen people playing online
Great video, Herny. I think your point about cooldowns and meters taking focus away from the fundamentals at 7:30 speaks home to me the most. It became especially apparent with the wirebug cooldowns on screen that I feel I spend way too much time staring at during hunts. It was present even back when we were staring at Absolute Readiness' gauge or wystone timers, but I think those games did a better (but not perfect) job of not taking away from the core combat.
Thank you my man! And dude I literally said the same thing today on stream, & wish I said it in the video as well. Exactly, we definitely spend way more time looking at the cooldowns here than we ever did before. And in the case of GU, where we did have some really strong abilities. We only got a couple per hunt. Thigns like Critical juncture, Corkscrew Jab, Wolfs Maw, the old Shoryugeki. You’d get like 3-4 of those per hunt. But the wirebug moves, we’re blasting out like a dozen per hunt, maybe more. It’s fun yea but it def starts to feel different after a while.
to be totally honest, i havent had this issue, it likely depends on the weapon you play. for me, i play a lot of weapons that don’t need wirebugs much, like lbg and lance. as such, weapons like cb and ls feel worse because they’re not just hard to manage on their own, but REQUIRE wirebugs, which is a big oversight in balance to me. you should be able to play with or without, but some weapons lean in TOO heavily while others don’t at all.
"powercreeps" thats what i felt since the first year of Rise. monster hunter was about preparation, method of a hunts, and move prediction, rather than combos, counters, and cooldowns from what MHX/MHRise forced us to do. and you're right about monster is getting crazier, it's because the hunter had so many powerful move tools, and crazy damages that monsters need to be crazier to catch up. That is the definition of Power creeps. that's why I somewhat agrees if someone said, "Rise is just another Hack&slash game that pleasing power fantasy instead of realism that we loved back then" or "Rise will be dead if the power creeps continue."
You say what I've felt for a long time. My biggest problem with the series currently is the fact that my hunter is literally a god amongst men. Nothing could stop him with all his skills, abilities, infinite items, and two batshit crazy AI companions (which makes online hunts 8vs1 in the worst case). I go into almost every quest with the mindset, "yep, I'm about to fuck shit up, cuz I'm unstoppable." Don't get me wrong, it can be fun at times to just wreck everything in your path, but there is nothing that I miss more than being genuinely scared of a monster encounter. Back when the monster was way stronger than my measly human in every aspect. Brute forcing my way through a battle was tough, so strategy, game knowledge, preparation, and solid execution were all major parts necessary for a completed quest. When standing in front of a massive angry dinosaur 10 times my height, I dont want my only thoughts to be "okay big guy, do your one move so I can counter and then follow up with my wirebug move. Lets get this done quickly." I prefer to feel the weight of success or failure in every decision I make. I want to think, "How in the world am I gonna beat that thing?" And when you finally slay the monster after 30 minutes of hard fought battle, no more potions left, down to your last cart... there is no better feeling in gaming to me. Thats what I play Monster Hunter for. I do not want to be a super hero, I am not the chosen one destined to save the world. All I am is an ordinary man with a simple profession. I am a hunter; killing beasts is simply part of the job. And the job should be difficult yet fulfilling and leave me with a sense of pride. Thats my two cents about it.
That's exactly my issue. Monster Hunter peaked at 4U imho. It allowed us to traverse via climbing/jumping from ledges and mounting monsters but it never felt overdone. Your character did not feel like some anime protag doing double/triple jumps mid-air, utilizing clutch claws or wire bugs, and having these wild attacks.
IMO is the issue is more the ease of use of counters and i-frames. The windows are too big. I personally really enjoy the more reactive play style and I-framing stuff but it’s way too easy to pull off and even master in Rise due to the extremely generous frame counts.
This is something I've been thinking about when Iceborne first released regarding the clutch claw, (Side note: I actually like the CC and always did, this isn't about that) I felt that because of the CC monsters needed to be "souped up" to keep up with hunters or at least compensate for the power given to players via the CC, this also made me realize why Lunastra was the way she was in Base World, it was to compensate for the fact people were abusing mantles and flash pods, and then when Rajang was added to Iceborne I immediately recognized what was going on... My conclusion was (and still is) that since making a MH game that has Hunter styles/Wirebugs/Clutch Claw or else with an option to disable them isn't gonna work **Starts glaring intensely at GU's guild style** they should just separate the Flagship games for each generation (ie Tri, MH4, World...etc) from the Portable games (ie P3rd, MHGen, Rise) for said generations by making the former a bit more grounded with the "core MH experience" while the latter has all the over the top stuff that's designed to be adrenaline rush inducing and just pure fun.
Nobody abused mantles amd flashbombs, they used them as intented by the devs as a hame mechanic.. if they didn't want people "abusing" mantles and flashbombs they shouldnt have put them in the game as they were, "fixing" a game game mechanic they themselves made for the game by making monsters being absolute bullshit is really absolute bullshit in on itself..
@@elitereptilian200 Well maybe you're right about mantles, but oh boy flash bomb spam was real back then... imagine a 4 player team each with 3 bombs and then an additional 10 flashbugs to craft more, that's 52 flash bombs on a single monster... and the only immunity they had to it is a shorter flashed period but other than that if a monster started flying, or if Teo started to supernova, or if any monster even thought of leaving a zone you just flash them and bada bing bada boom infinite stun spam achieved, congratulations on your 2 minute hunt.
@@Nasa1423 I got lucky and I had a group of people to play world with who most certainly did not do that with flashbombs and even when I played with randos I don't remember people being that annoying with them.. but.. then again.. it is a intented game mechanic made specifically combat things like teos supernova and I for one appreciate people who rather flash him out of than let him cart the whole team..
@@Nasa1423 In MHGU you could do the same thing and people did for harder fights. You could carry 5 flash bombs and enough materials to build 10 more, so the team could bring 60 bombs. The mechanic was exactly the same: monsters built immunity to the blinded effect but if they could be flashed then were never immune to the flinch (and thus dropping out of the sky). I don't really know why MHW gets special criticism here other than simply because so many more people played it.
I’ve always found each game’s monster+ system (apex, hyper, tempered, anomaly) to be rather…distasteful. Regardless of game, I always have the most fun with me, my weapon, and a vanilla monster. There’s a place for these higher systems, but man. They’re not the game, ya know. They’re just extra sauce. Feels like we’re getting drowned in sauce in the recent installments Edit: I should have watched the rest of the video first, now I feel like I just said what he said lol
@@josephfrancis3250 having the same monster with slightly different appearance and 90% of the same moves is not variety. It’s just boring. I’d rather have a few subspecies and vanilla monsters then higher tier. Obviously Master rank, high rank and low rank makes sense but yeah
@@josephfrancis3250 MH difficulty should have stuck to being about more complex quests rather then "AFFLICTED RISEN CRIMSON GLOW VALSTRAX". I have infinetly more fun in MHFU and MH3U's endgame than in the endgame of the two most recent entries.
The one-upping progression you mentioned reminds me of how Elden Ring feels when compared to the Souls series. In Souls, bosses have properly telegraphed, deliberate movements that look and feel natural. Souls fights (usually) feel fair, and if you die it was because you came unprepared or simply need to learn the fight. In Elden Ring, most bosses have some crazy bullshit move or mechanic that encourages or forces the player to basically cheat in order to win. If you run up against a wall, chances are you just don't have the right gear to beat the boss and no amount of practice is going to help you. I'm not saying Monster Hunter is like that yet, but the fact that the more classical play styles are slowly becoming outright unusable in high-level hunts might be an indicator on which direction the series is headed. I really hope MH6 doesn't go the Elden Ring route...
mhgu had a good balance of this imo, there was complexity but you also had the option to use the simple basic styles we all know without being punished for it.
And the best thing about GU is that the basic Playstyle is just as effective as the complex styles if you know what I mean. GU is a masterpiece of a game
Try fighting ex bloodbath with guild style. Good luck Sarcasm aside, I feel like deviant and hyper monsters were balanced around everything that wasn't guild style. With some of the endgame fights, it feels damn near impossible without valor style or adept evade etc. Trying to play gu like 4u (guild style) in endgame is incredibly punishing
Honestly, I feel like MH Generations did it right. Hunter Arts doesn't fill up automatically; the player must strike the beast in order to charge it. Hunter Arts is the payoff- but the biggest reward is that the player would learn that by anticipating monsters' attacks they can dodge and retaliate with one of their own, thus fill up their Hunter Arts more often. Funny enough, the Hunter Art system wasn't a special move button as it was perceived, but an art of making the player a better hunter...
Agreed, the flow of your progression feels organic. The moveset is smaller so each move has to be deliberate, if you fucked up, it's your own fault. This kind of simplicity and underdogs dynamic is what elevated 4u to be the best in the franchise. Also the story is pretty neat
"vibes" is a combination of a lot of things, doesn't really make sense to use it to say something is good when you don't describe what made those "vibes"
I've noticed that for the West (or "international market" perhaps?) this seems to be the case, but in Japan 4U is controversial, or at best people are like "yeah it was great but it had big issues." Personally, I think 4U village experience is "golden standard" as you say, but can't say I like the way Guild Quests and its reward worked. I always find this dissonance between the West and Japan pretty interesting.
@@Zero0mtk I'd say that the community is guilty of making the guild quests seem worse than they actually are, most notably with the mindless insistence on spamming nothing but Rajang quests, when in reality every single monster with an apex state, as well as elder dragons, is very good for the grind that people decided themselves to do. And speaking of the grind, why stress over that? Getting top tier relics already requires you to beat the hardest quests in the game, so realistically they are just a neat extra to happen upon at the end of it. Players dug their own graves here, and now the game should be criticized for that? Seems wrong to me.
I always worry about complaints like people not wanting wirebugs, because for me, wirebugs are way to broad of a concept. They are 1) movement tools to be used in and out of combat 2) A resource tied to a variety of different abilities, most of which are either highly damaging, or have i-frames/counters (+wirefall) As movement tools, I don't think wire bugs have a particularly big effect on the game. Being in the air is generally not particularly useful and you fall down quick enough, and its rare that horizontal wiredashing will be particularly more helpful than rolling or running. I have a far bigger issue with moves that have lots of I frames, hyperarmor or are counters. The main thing that set monster hunter apart from other games was how positioning worked, and how it lead to monsters feeling substantially different. Having easily accessible s and hyperarmor means that staying infront of the mosters face is not difficult, and in some cases encouraged far more than any other strategy, leading to both monsters feeling less unique, and the franchise feeling less unique. And the problem with complaining about wirebugs is that while wirebugs are very much tied with these mechanics, they aren't intrinsincly related, so removing wirebugs doesn't neccesarily solve the problems their existence brings. World is the game that introduced tackle and foresight-slash into the standard movesets of weapons, so rather than seeing rise an expreimental game, I feel like its the logical conclusion of where World was going, and I fully expect MH6 to still double down on having easy access to hyperarmor, i-frames, and counters. Overall, when people say they expect MH6 to be more like world, I still expect it to have the problems world began to introduce and rise inherited, so I kind of have little hope in ever enjoying the franchise as much as I liked the older games, even as someone who started with World.
Personally I have felt Rise/Sunbreak to be kinda shallow in general for a while now, and I could never really put my finger on why. But something you said in the video REALLY struck a chord. How like, you're always trying to land "that one move". I find myself always trying to land Bullet Barrage with Gunlance, or always trying to stick to the monster with Switch Axe, or always trying to land True Charge / Strong Arm Stance with Great Sword. Why? Because the game kinda enables you. In older games, it felt very satisfying to land these moves because they were hard to hit and there was a lot of risk to throwing them out. And getting away with it felt really good. But in Rise, your "Super moves" let's call them, are so easily accessible, not terribly hard to land, and with a few exceptions there isn't much risk to just throwing them out since a lot of our Super Moves don't have much end lag, and every weapon has a counter of some sort. EVEN IF you get hit, it's pretty easy to just disengage from the fight and heal very quickly and of course there isn't much risk in healing since you can run while doing so. Generations Ultimate is an example of good Super Moves, because even if you whiff it, or you use them at the wrong time ect, your punishment is that now you have to build the art back up, which can take some time and requires you to engage with the Monster, while in Rise you just have to wait for your wire bugs to come back which doesn't take that long. There's just a lot more variety in the moment to moment decisions you make and moves you use mid hunt as a result of the systems in place in the older games. To use your food analogy, Super Moves are like chocolate, really sweet so it tastes amazing, but too much of it and it starts to taste kinda gross, and maybe even give you diabetes. Sorry for the wall of text I've just really been trying to figure out why I don't really like Rise/Sunbreak that much and I think you finally helped me figure it out.
This is why I haven't had as much fun in Monster Hunter as I did when I first played MHGU after World (MHW is the first I played period) The simplicity of variety with hunter styles made it so damn fun.
Gotta say, MHGU doesn't have the simplicity, it has lots of hunter arts and styles that add a lot onto the game, I highly recommend playing mh3u or mh4u, those two are the best from the simple formula, no bs, no op shenanigans, just you, the weapon/armor and the monster
Simplicity with hunting styles? Did I read that right? I miss the simple times of mh4u and maybe base world. MHGU and MHRS are far from being the "simple" options IMO.
@@aymodaslacker8852 Exactly what I mean, the variety was very simple, you pick a Hunting Style + Art(s) and thats it, no wirebug, no clutch claw, no mantles.
I'm ok with ditching wirebugs, they just need to give us what the actual goal of the wirebug did without the hyper-action wall run spiderman super fly stuff. Just give the hunters a dedicated jump, no bells and whistles, nothing that turns every weapon into an insect glaive, just something to get you aerial and clear gaps. We don't need a grapple hook, and turbo dash, and ukemi on knockdown. Just a jump and allow the basic moveset for each weapon to have additions be incorporated into that.
I love how self contained weapons are in the older games. You can do any move from its moveset or build any resources at any given moment in a hunt. Felt very tight
I can list a couple of moves with a big limit, but GL just takes the cake with how hard Wyvern's Fire is to use for not only middling wake-up damage but a sizable cooldown slapped on it as well. With things like managing sharpness and resources like 3U spirit gauge, GU heat bar, or SA/CB phials, there's been a ton of clunky meter management in the past which have been improved in later titles
As a swax main I actually rarely spam it's counter. I basically play like how you describe how we used to. I use every move. Plus swax has some fun combos that never get old
I feel you there completely, I try to do the same with Hammer and not use impact crater on every down, even though so much power was pooled into it. Since I still love using the golf swing and the rest of the move set which is still so good in Rise. Also ngl I’m very inexperienced with rise SA lol
I hate how we're supposed to spam the 1 move with weapons now. It's kind of ironic since I'm a GS main and it's usually memed as being the tcs spam weapon. But strongarm feels so boring
Similar thing here with my DB, I know the spiral slash skill is meta with DB and because you can easily spam the move it kinda feels like I'm boiling down an already simplistic weapon to a just one move
Also an important point for me is the identity of the weapons and how it got lost over the MH games, as an example in the lance was always the primary "counter" weapon or let's say the one with the biggest and "best" selection of counters, or in some game like base tri, it was pretty much the only weapon with counters possiblitys, but with the time and with the universal tools hunters got, the lance got heavily left behind, today every weapon can counter like lance or today every weapon can KO a monster like hammer or today all weapons got the mobility of the IG, you get waht I mean. And for me the identity to my weapon and that only I can do that 1 thing the most efficient is really important, so I stopped playing MH games since rise cause I just don't feel validated to play a weapon like lance if some weapons do lance job way better than the originaly counter weapon
I have should describe lance as the weapon with the best defence and not best "counters" but it's still applies, lance doesn't have the best defence anymore by a long shot
As a Lancer, I completely agree. I chose my weapon because it’s really cool standing tall against nukes while countering the medium hits, but now everyone can do that? I’m really tired of weapons losing their identity because Capcom doesn’t want anyone feeling left out. I don’t know if they haven’t realized or just don’t care, but adding these huge gimmicks to every weapon means only a few will really see use
Fr I’ve been a lance main since Tri, but finally ended up giving it up in World because other weapons just completely outshined it. And Rise made it even worse. Edit: I still main lance in older titles, so I still consider it my main. Going through P3rd with it rn.
I agree. With the wirebugs and switch skills, every weapon feels the same. Now every weapon has a counter. In previous game, the hammer for example felt different than the other weapons BECAUSE it had no counter and you had to approach the fight differently.
I started rise with longsword and have been learning lance the feel of both weapons feel completely different in a good way in my opinion countering with longsword won't save you from every attack you would have to be a god at the game to do that which most casual players including me will never reach I have had less carts since I started using lance
That's not the result of the wirebugs, that's the result of the devs adding so many counters and other ways to tank through things. And well, Lance kinda got the short end of the stick in both of the most recent games. But SA got a horrific treatment in base World and it being good in IB was moreso a coincidence.
@@thenonexistinghero Yeah I agree I honestly think the skill bloat or how skills work + the dangos in rise for example really contribute a lot to this. If you think about it there are actually an insane amount of tools / counters in the game, it just isn't convenient or viable / can be overwhelming to try and use them all, which IMO just tells me there is too much. We already had flash bombs, sonic bombs, barrel bombs, traps, environmental traps in world, palico abilities, items to jack up defense, skills to improve guards, s, flinches, health recovery, etc. A lot of those are situational which almost makes it worse since you never have a reason to really use them since you can beat the monsters just fine without them already, but you still feel like you aren't fully experiencing the game if you don't take advantage of them. It's just lead to a lot of bloat and player confusion on how they are meant to actually enjoy the game.
I think the most frustrating aspect of silkbind moves for me is that they were already done well in GenU. Having to earn hunter arts by engaging with the normal combat mechanics worked perfectly fine, but having silkbind moves refresh off of time alone makes them way too spammable, especially since you can lower the cooldown with extremely easy to fit in armor skills. Hunter Arts felt like an added bit of flare to GenU's combat loop whereas at times it feels like silkbinds *are* the combat loop of Sunbreak, and if you aren't spamming them you're almost playing the game wrong. At the risk of sounding overly cynical sometimes Sunbreak almost feels like a MOBA where your ultimate is always off cooldown.
In Generations, getting a hunter art charged up felt like getting a super in a fighting game. Soooo much more satisfying. I definitely agree with the MOBA bit.
Waiting to charge up your super meter is significantly worse than just having another attack. The balance is rise isn't spam this move whenever I have wirebugs, its do I use this move or this move with my wirebugs or do I save them to wirefall. Wirebugs can be used offensively or defensively but not are the same "meter"
These are all valid. The main thing I have always considered is that Monster Hunter was almost always based on a concept of physics and had somewhat a physics-related animation set. Think of Souls tier weapons, they're huge and you can really feel the impact of it. That was always the game's forte. Right now, they're trying to speed up the pace of the hunt so exponentially that if it keeps up this way MH6 will have players completing objectives in 30 seconds. And "Landing X attack as much as you can" has basically become the routine DPS flow chart for everything except Bowguns. The main problem I have with this game is that I played through with my favorite weapon, Insect Glaive (or bugsticc), and truly just felt despised by the game devs. Not only was every other weapon given aerial mobility, every other weapon was also given _way more useful_ silkbind attacks than the *LITERAL WEAPON THAT DEALS WITH INSECTS.* The honest worst part about the entire thing is that bugsticc still has no counter moves and now almost _every other weapon_ has a form of counter move. Do you. Know. How frustrating. It is. To play IG. With Monster hitboxes. The way they are. Due to. The counter meta? I have never been so frustrated with the game, getting slapped by literal tail sweeps, on the ground, when i'm 10 feet above them. I always used the aerial attacks as openers, after recovering from a dodge because LoL all I can do is dodge. Only to get swatted out of the air by the enemy slapping the ground. There is also still blatant favoritism with the weapons and honestly that just shouldn't be a thing anymore. We SHOULD be past that point, but the developers took one look and saw LS at nearly 25% play percentage and said "We need to nerf Lance/Gunlance!" I love playing HBG to apply status effects quickly and have access to good firepower (sometimes Bow too) Y'know how they treat that? "Lets make melee builds better at status with Status Trigger." They basically gave melee weapons the ability to be the primary status-inducer by having them not worry about items or item availability and just having to *dodge.* Don't worry about me, I ""enjoy"" farming catalysts. Meanwhile the DB user with small paralysis is causing the monster to be stunlocked. I'm not mad, I'm furious. Everything I want to do is illegal apparently. The developers themselves clearly had weapon families they loved more than others and it 100% shows. I hope in MH6, item knowledge comes back because they keep shutting down item usefulness. I remember in 3U I could set a baited trap, exhaust the monster in one area, it would flee, eat the trap in a different location. We can't even get basic "nice things" like this.
Landing X attack as much as you can literally describes the combat routine for every monster hunter though. There will always be a best attack/combo for each weapon that you will use as often as possible. In Rise those attacks are bigger than previously but the game plan is the same. Obviously you are going to use your strongest move whenever you can. Also, I haven't actually played longsword in Rise but from what I've heard they absolutely gutted its numbers in Sunbreak compared to base Rise. And I also think that buffing melee status is a good change, sue me. Bowguns have basically had a monopoly on status for decades. I'm so sick of people hyperbolising the state of weapon balance. Idk about sunbreak but in base rise speedrun times for weapons were within like 1 minute of each other for almost all monsters. I've played PvP games with way worse balance and I am literally going to snap if I see one more monster hunter player acting like the most opressed minority on earth because their favourite weapon takes 2-3 minutes longer to kill the funny lizard.
There's a couple of things that I've discussed with friends that both enjoy the game and others that don't. One is that preparation is virtually nonexistent in Rise - with things like Hot/Cold drinks being gone and the monster being immediately visible on the map. Restocking anytime means there is no tension with regards to bringing materials to safely clear a hunt. The other is similar to what you have detailed - that we as hunters have a bevy of tools to counter and lock down the monster now, so the response from the monsters is now a lot of one-shot potential moves and moves designed to catch wirefalling. The sense of danger has shifted from surviving the environment and the monster over a longer hunt, to playing in fear of a one-shot move (that you can usually counter in some way). It isn't necessarily a BAD thing, but it's certainly different. Rise for me is a lot less Monster Hunter, and a lot more straight up Monster Fighter, even though I still enjoy it.
Monster Hunter World was perfect. It didn't need any significant changes, all it needed was... more of it. It was THAT good. They really nailed the formula for me in that game. The only thing I would take from MHR and take it into MHW are the dog palico (cause the idea was there in World but was implemented really poorly) and the new monsters.
World was still boring. Rise actually made MH fun because it finally felt like a proper game and not "What if we did slow/deliberate combat like Dark Souls, but not as good".
Monster hinter world was my first monster hunter and it was extremely boring to me. always running for ages and positioning yourself. so many drinks potions and else needed for preperation before finally getting the chance to do whats fun personally for me. hitting and killing monsters..... Monster hunter rise did a great Job for more casual players to focus more on these aspects. i understand the criticism of old school Monster hunter players. but I personally don't think that it will be gone. they just make a new genre inside of the genre with the same IP. MHW is still much more popular and I dont think they will throw away this userbase. they just like to get more players into the market with multiple playstiles divided over different MH games...
The thing about that evening out is that it can make things less fair. Theres a game I quite enjoy called Vermintide that has this problem. Its a game about attrition. You progress through a level and try not to make mistakes in combat. Every mistake costs you health. Health is replenished using resources you find during the level. If the rate you make mistakes exceeds the rate you progress to find health items, you lose. In Vermintide 2, they screwed this up by adding talents and abilities that significantly increase player power. Most notably, the ability to effectively heal yourself by fighting. This fundamentally breaks the core gameplay loop. You can't get slowly worn down by mounting mistakes and increasing tension when you go into every fight with effectively full hp. But despite this, I'd say Vermintide 2 is considerably harder than Vermintide 1. But its not as fair. In order to actually challenge a player who is effectively immune to the intended gameplay challenge of dwinding resources and increasing tension, they throw more stuff at you and make the core combat more difficult. This increases the challenge, but its a different kind of challenge and its a less fair challenge. In Vermintide 1, you generally see a loss coming. It comes at the end of rising tension as your supplies dwindle. You lose people on your team as they go down. It provides great moments where you can clutch a victory and losses feel fair. You never just turn the corner into a mountain of bullshit and wipe from full health. In Vermintide 2, you generally go into the fight that wipes you with full hp. In fact, your party might be on full hp only 30 seconds or so before a wipe. Theres no mounting tension as your health, supplies, and numbers dwindle, because thats not how the game challenges you any more. It challenges you by overwhelming you, not wearing you down. You lose the tension. The potential for clutch plays is still there, but much rarer, and much less fair. It's more like you outbullshitted the enemy. My point is to take this example from one game franchise and relate it back to monster hunter. People will argue with you about these bells and whistles by saying things like "you're still losing to Risen Valstrax". They will point to the difficulty level of the game as if it still being hard means its still the same as it used to be. But that just isn't the case. If a monster nuked the arena the moment you arrived it'd be hard, but it wouldn't be fair. And likewise, if the monsters have to be faster, more aggressive, have wider reach and extended attacks to counter the players increased offensive tools, then a simple hunter swinging a telephone pole sized sword is going to have a less fair fight. Thats not to say all extra tools are bad, but its to point out that by adding new tools, the old ones become less important. Making the monsters stronger to counter your new toys might make the fight the same difficulty, but that doesn't mean it'll be the same fight. EDIT: So I typed this up while half way through the video and you proceeded to say basically the exact same thing, so I guess I'm preaching to the choir on that one. Leaving it up anyway, but that's pretty funny.
I'm happy the series is innovating and expanding, but I've found that the MH games that keep me engaged and satisfied the longest are the ones with the most limited movement and the simpler movesets where you're primarily using the same low- to mid-tier functional attacks instead of constantly spamming the heftiest and flashiest moves. It's weirdly more complex and feels more nuanced when there are less options, despite that sounding crazy
Nah it sounds PERFECT. Look how far O, r1 and R2 carried Dark Souls. It's just like in boxing. Every boxer says tje most versatile punch is the jab. That single attack creates endless options depending on the context.
@@gothxm This reminds me of how Vanilla Minecraft is designed compared to many mods. In base Minecraft, you are given items with very basic functionality and interactions, but we used those interactions to construct a vast array of things with advanced uses: Numerous forms of TNT cannons, large-scale transportation, things that test the limits of physics, LITERALLY MAKING A COMPUTER THAT RUNS MINECRAFT IN MINECRAFT. Many mods allow us similar high-end capabilities, but they’re often within one simple-to-use tool; there’s not much flexibility, and what you see is often what you get.
and this is why we can't agree on anything, if they wanted to put in a jump button they should've done that but saying it's just cool movement it disregards most of the issues that people have with wirebugs, i don't want down recovery i prefer the invincibility frames, i don't want the wirebug to be integrated into my weapon move set in some cases it's limiting especially with the longsword, there's more pinning moves because of wirebug and if you're out of wirebugs and they're on cooldown well there's nothing you can do it's just bad, if they made the wirebug only for movement and nothing else it would have been ok but it is not and it's a problem, NO MORE WIREBUGS i will spam this shit until the end of time if i have to, and don't get me started on the stupid throwing a barrel to self parry wirebug cheese strats
@@Razyeldevcrying over pin moves because "muh cooldown? Seems like a skill issue to me, its almost like the game is actively trying to tell players, especialy the "spam muh wirebug to win lol so easy lmao trash game" that no, you shouldnt be spamming wirebugs like a brainless moron, pretty much like old mh titles would say,in the form of a ass wooping, that you should try to spam attack on monsters, no matter how fast you think your weapons are.
But jumping on demand is why I like IG. The verticality makes it really unique, and let's me dodge attacks in unique ways. If you give it to everyone, the only thing IG has left going for it is the kinsect... and honestly, I'd rather just have the glaive part without the kinsect.
Games getting simpler or retreading the already beaten paths probably won't sit well with Capcom and players as well. Getting Pokemon syndrome ("This just feels like Pokemon Red version again") isn't good especially if we can expect yet another price tag to get in. Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War had a similar instance where people complained it wasn't new enough with the asset flips and reused animations among other things. God of War and God of War Ragnarok also had similar sentiments where people generally felt it could have just been a relatively expensive, large DLC instead of a new, full price game. It could have just been like a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 + Torna Golden Country. Probably a good comparison for MHR is Street Fighter, as well as both being from Capcom. That series can kind of be called "Gimmick Fighter". Other fighting games tend to improve on the last a little bit with a slightly new system addition and slap a new title number. SF always has something very new per installment, and now SF6 is basically slapping on everything 5 had all at once with yet more additions which feels like the sentiment for MHR here. If one installment just reverted back, people would complain why it has to be a new game with a new price tag for old ideas.
I think the key here is balancing, I don't think there's anything wrong with adding something to the player, and the monsters, but balancing how powerful those things are are the issue.
To me Mosnter Hunter shines when it's an uphill battle. One monster against one player being equal feels kinda off. What worked with old gen was that teamwork was practically a necessity. Nowadays multiplayer is riskier than solo without any significant upside.
Yeah sometimes I feel it has gone a little too crazy in terms of what comes up but there are some things that I do like like the speed carving. I have been playingTri on the 3DS again and it is been really slow but I love the monsters underwater
I loved the olden tried and true monster turns twice 90 degrees and you slap it's head with greatsword/hammer. Don't think that's exactly gonna come back but hey it's something (You can still do it after some attacks but doesn't feel the same) The slowness of combat is also why I play the older games from time to time. My dopamine receptors had enough from the non stop spectacles.
The shortest and simplest way I would explain MHs direction is that its leaning much into an "Anime" aesthetic with flashy, weightless attacks and monsters that feel like punching bags rather then threats. I miss the more realisim/low fantasy orientated MH where hunters had to rely on positioning and attacks were much more deliberate and carried weight. Monsters were a product of their environments rather then having a theme like in SB. Speaking of SB, most of these issues with the series's identity seem to spark from rise and its place as a "portable" title which have always been soley combat orientated, and are the games that tend to experement with wacky mechanics such as wyvern riding and the wirebugs.
Having the opportunity to play the game in its simplest form and it’s still be a fun a interesting game is what we need, I played ice born without learning the clutch claw and it felt like I had to use the full 45 min hunt time almost every time, I was punished for simply playing the same way I played for years
The last video i watched on this channel was you talking about rajang in iceborne, and how they "kinda" changed him for the worse. Then, you've said you were experimenting with the idea of putting your original songs in the videos. And seeing today the product of that decision, you've really done the right thing! I agree with everything in this video (except the water combat part haha), but the most impressive is your evolution in music, and how it complements the video. You really did a great job and i hope you continue to do so.
I feel like MHGU had the best balance between Standart traditional MH Style and Flashy combat style. And the best thing about it is that both of these „styles“ are effective when played correctly. MHGU is imo one of the most successful MH Games ever.
XX/GU really was peak. They had the extras on the side but never stopped anyone from enjoying guild style and enjoy that simple style. It was like a little of A a little of B. Nothing felt too out of place and I while I really enjoy 4U simplicity, I still want some ways to vary our hunting styles from one another using the same weapon.
World's far simpler than GU. Tried to go back to GU recently and it took me a few hours to figure out how things work again. No issue like that with World or Rise, I can just jump straight in because micromanagement is a lot simpler. The actual fights are a bit more complex in Rise, I guess thanks to the wirebug. But not in World, outside of the special DLC fights and some late DLC fights, fighting the monsters is simple and straightforward.
The thing about this BS arms race, its that you are slowly and but surely becoming a flashy super hero. But at the same time mosters lose their mystique and no longer feel terrifying. (Yeah i know, kongalala exists, kutku exists... But you get my point)
For me a lot of the skill in the old games came from positioning and knowing the weaknesses, when you can attack and what moves you should lay low. Beginning with worlds temporal and LS counter it became a different game loop. Rise just lets you dodge anything and fly in the air.
But luckily the temporal mantle is completely optional, and you can always go to a different weapon. The main thing that made world different than the classics was Clutch Claw. But you can get by without using it at all. And of course it's quality of life changes but that's about it.
@@yaboiash6207 you can kick the monster to death if you want to but temporal especially before the patch was mandatory just like clutch is if you don't want to be under leveld against a monster. You could always play rise without wirebugs as well with your logic but that's not a sound argument
@@GothamKili Temporal was never mandatory, hell I've never used it once. And clutch claw is only mandatory for the end game fights, but that's about it honestly. And even that it wasn't anything completely game changing. In rise, wirebugs are the focus of the combat, and when the game first released no monsters were really fit for dealing with the mobility of them. The only one who was meant to combat it was Magnamalo. And the game turned into just managing your wirebugs, cause they practically do everything. They do evasive, counters, attacks, they do everything on every weapon. Which not only makes the weapons lose identity which was what made monster hunter really fun for me in a way. Again, I consider Rise to be a sort of different take on monster hunter, but now it's just wirebug management the game since that's the main things that do damage. Clutch claw actually had flaws, and the temporal mantle got nerfed down to something not completely broken. it'll only save your life 4 times now afterall. But wirebugs come back so fast compared to that, and are also the main source for damage. It's still monster hunter, but just not the same kind I grew up with, as it does honestly feel like a pretty different game. World has it's differences but it was still pretty close to the original, Rise is just... Wirebug management the game now, since everything revolves around that one mechanic.
Monster Hunter was always damn impressive for how much bang it gave you for your buck, technically speaking. It barely ever released on the most impressive systems, but always managed to create something damn impressive within those limitations. Now that theyre gone, the magic just isnt there anymore. None of the moment to moment things feel emphazised, because they arent. The emphasis is on special moves and oneshots and counter attacks, and Monster Hunter wasnt about that, it was about simplicity executed to damn near perfection. World was probably the best Monster Hunter were ever going to get. It was THE chance for the team to prove what they could do, and they still had limits in place before the big main stream market success, allowing them to operate with new tools, but staying in their comfort zone, and it already had issues handling these new options (looking at hardware issues specifically). Honestly, Id appreciate a faithful remake of MFU2, maybe 3rd. Just to remind everyone that weapons had a clearer identity back in the day. Good vid
What I find really interesting is that I agree with basically everything you said here, but don't have a problem with it. Going with the food analogy, I absolutely get where you are coming from but it works just as well on reverse too. I can appreciate simplicity, but tend to gravitate towards and enjoy complexity more. Both in games and in food lol. What I really like about Rise in particular is that it feels like there is always something I could be *better* at. I'm a sucker for that. Then regarding the "I use my bullshit move" "no, I use MY bullshit move!" part, there's a lot of truth to that, and I feel like it should be expected because that's honestly a pretty perfect summary of how combat has evolved throughout history, from the animal kingdom to modern warfare. There's a never ending search for something even more broken and bullshit than the last thing, and as soon as someone has it someone else is working on something even more broken. On a macro time scale that's evolution, on a micro time scale that's the Americans and Soviets spending 40 years seeing who could make the biggest, most precise, and easiest to deliver nuclear weapons.
This is 100% how I felt going from World as my first MH into Rise, while I like the 'idea' of having more options with wirebugs, silkbinds, and switch skills, it really just felt like too much. I much prefer the simpler style of base MH World's combat, where it was about knowing the monster and knowing your own abilities and limitations, rather than trying to manage cooldowns and constantly using over the top moves. I totally get that the latter may be some people's jam, and more power to them, but I'd rather stick with the straightforward combat.
No one’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use the silkbind moves. Don’t use them if you don’t like them, the move’s aren’t just free damage, it doe’s take knowledge of the weapon and the monster you’re facing to properly utilize them.
@@josephfrancis3250 the "Don't use X if you don't like X" stance being used as a counterpoint where "X" is a core part of the gameplay loop, is extremely disingenuous. Shame on you.
I totally agree, also I think that pickaxe, bug net and whetstone should be unlimited, but occupy slots in inventory, i loved the management we used to do back in the day, to actually prepare for a hunt, also bring back paint bombs and remove the capture icon, paying attention to the monster should be necessary, at this point the limping animation is just useless in rise...
A lot of games have been going through similar; granted it's not within the same genre, but Josh Strife Hayes made many videos on feature creep: i.e: Stuff is added on top of original stuff that overshadows previous stuff and then taken out once the next game/iteration/version/expansion comes along and _adds new stuff on top of old stuff that overshadows previous stuff_ etc..
I personally don’t like Rise the best and I think you put into words exactly what I feel Obviously it’s intentionally different than main series games with a completely different design philosophy, and for video game standards it’s amazing, but it’s simply not what I’m looking for in a Monster Hunter title
You really summed up most of my issues with Rise and Sunbreak. After World killed quest preparation, Rise killed positioning. Now monster and weapon knowledge is all about knowing what is a multi-hit and what is not, what is tracking you and what is not, and above all what is the last attack of the monster's combo that you absolutely NEED to counter for average deeps or simply to keep your damage buff alive. Inputs are inconsistent sometimes, and hitboxes are back to old gen hitboxes. Monsters lack weight in their attacks. That being said, the game feels great when playing multiplayer but somehow I feel awful every time I play solo.
@@SeasoningTheObese Lmao what? AT monsters and lategame Iceborne are some the hardest content in the entire franchise. Only the early game was made easier and that would always be a joke for veterans anyway.
@@SeasoningTheObese Notice how you didn't adress anything I said at all lol. I doubt you even played Iceborne's lategame based on this response. The movements of monsters are now fluid and often much faster (plus you can no longer zone out to heal or sharpen). They no longer need awful hitboxes to present a challenge, plus they experimented with "dps check" type mechanics that force you to master weapon combos against lategame Elder Dragons. The flagship monster's gimmick requires consistent "superman dive" otherwise it's a one-shot. Old Rajang and Garuga are a joke compared to Iceborne versions, etc. Nobody cares that Low Rank is easier and inventory management outside of Dos was an illusion.
I think I have a pretty good idea of where you're coming from. There's all this new and fun stuff you can do but some days you just want to go back to the basic core gameplay but they don't quite feel viable enough in the new games. I'm more or less in the middle here. I love the core gameplay of monster hunter but I do need some ways to change things up between entries or I start to feel like I'm stagnating. And I can only switch weapons so many times if they don't add more weapons.
I spoke about this sort of thing about 2 years ago before Rise even released. You have no idea how nice it is to hear similar thoughts about the games design from someone like you :D
"And also, bring back underwater combat." Yes and please. We no longer have consoles that do not have two sticks for us to make use of combat in that capacity. Also chill vibes as always. Always a treat.
@@blackyraypatrick9041I think they just mean it's their favourite entry, yet if the mainline loses it's identity by copying what Rise does, it would be a negative. Rise works because Rise is Rise. Monsters are faster, more aggressive, you're faster, has more options for mobility and counters, but if you took these parts and forced it in say, even an already faster paced but more classic MH game like World, it would feel out of place and lost the old identity of MH.
This need for a more grounded MH has been heard across from several OG members of the community for some time. I still watch Jakob's video on Dos from tine to time, it seems to really encapsulates this feeling as well I think Capcom might be listening, let's hope MH6 brings this move away from DPS bosses and more of a hunting game
We've already seen the logical endpoint of this kind of design in Frontier, and part of that makes sense - some Frontier designers worked on Rise and their predilections were made apparent. I wouldn't be opposed to the Portable team just fully committing to this vision of the series as long as the main titles pull it back in.
I can see this happening, ever since Generations(or arguably Portable 3rd) the Portable team have begun differing themselves from the Main team by getting more experimental with bombastic game mechanics. If the Portable team's next game introduces another feature that ups the gameplay tempo like Arts/Styles and now Wirebug does, then it'll be clear what direction they want to go in.
Really hoping they keep switch skills but also very much believe they need to add new weapons. It's almost been an entire decade since new weapons were added to the main series. Playing Wild Hearts, faults aside, really made me realize just how badly I've been wanting a new weapon in the franchise.
I think we need a full bow gun rework, probably the tri system of custom bow gun pieces because the current system has hbg many times feeling just worse and not unique. I think it needs a regular roll again like pre world or even look towards making it a hop weapon like Lance and GL because this fat roll just doesn't feel good and playing games like frontier or gu and being able to roll without the end lag causing you to get punished for rolling one attack just feels much better. Also the special ammo having more options that are also viable since right now they take forever to load, and don't do enough in terms of damage or utility to be worth it. I really would love a siege system back especially since the idea of not being able to move in modern games is a balance tactic in itself already. With the clunky mechanics and all, there was something special about old worlds gunning.
@@Argnos2293 S & S tree has few "swords" that are outright clubs.. I know its not exactly what you're asking for but you can go fast clubbing with them.. kinda..
A big part of old school monster Hunter for me is about hitting a wall and trying to get past it. It’s why I’ve been enjoying frontier so much. New world mh is more about feeling powerful talking these large monsters down and running circles around them effortlessly. Prior you needed a lot of knowledge on the monster to do that type of thing.(-flash bomb cheeses) Modern monster Hunter is all stacked in the hunters favour now. Why is all endemic life beneficial to us we haven’t lived and evolved in these lands the monsters have. It should be a David vs Goliath type game and it still can be but we can’t deny how the majority of mh now is verry accessible. And if you think that it’s just easy cos good mh2dos kicked my ass my first time through last year. That game really changed my perspective and made me quite sad for what the franchise has developed into. The old games were simple but all about pre-emptive positioning that added a lot of depth due to long recovery frames and generally high commitment attacks. The atmosphere and consistent art style have all changed and i guess I just miss it.
This is exactly what I've been saying to my friends. Been playing through the older games and there was something great about how simple everything was
100% with you on that one, Sunbreak is great at what it tries to do, but I miss the simplicity of older titles. welcome back, can't wait for more videos coming from you, always very fun to watch!
Glad someone else appreciates underwater combat. Maybe it's because Tri was my first MH game, but I loved diving in and finding the beasts below the waves. Lagiacrus feels a lot more intimidating when you're on its home field.
I agree wholeheartedly. I've played each MH title from Tri onward and enjoyed them all immensely. Each system added to a new game brings mechanics that I hope stay and some I hope never resurface in future games. Capcom has generally done a great job of discarding what wasn't working in previous games so I'm confident that they'll continue to do so. However, as you mentioned, the hunter and monsters "power creeping" each other is a big concern going forward. If Capcom do it perfectly, it could be brilliant: each monster attack forcing you decide on one of a dozen viable options to deal with it... If not, I can see MH becoming a series where each monster attack forces you to immediately execute the only correct option out of thirty.
This was so on point I really miss the feeling of playing Monster Hunter when I didn't have so easy access to internet in the psp and Wii Everything was so amazing and going to hunt felt like going to the wild out of the safe zone of the village It was scary what monster could be also in the map It really felt like hunting in a world where I didn't was the protagonist, the monsters where the protagonist and I loved that
One small and totally unrelated thing I found to be a detrimental change was the way hubs have been phased out in favor of quick join either through join requests in Rise or the SOS flare in World. To me, the idea of hunters all dropping their weapons at the door to chow down and decompress together after a hunt is core to the franchise’s identity. The online experience feels lonely and impersonal now.
Finally, someone who has done this argument right. Most people simplify this way too much, are too aggressive, or are just outright nonsensical with this discussion. While I definitely prefer the gameplay of Sunbreak to any other game, I very much understand your points and I definitely wouldn't mind toning it back a bit. I don't want the gameplay to be as simple and slow paced as old games because I personally need more stimulation than that, but maybe somewhere in the middle. Maybe like world but a tad faster paced is ideal to me. While the whole counter situation is not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be imo, I certainly would like counters toned down somewhat. I still think every weapon has a ton of identity, if not more than ever before, but there are some moves that are what I'd consider to be outliers. I don't think switch axe, great sword, dual blades, gunlance (although people use reverse blast over it anyways,) or insect glaive needs a counter, and maybe not even hammer (although I don't mind the existence of water strike.) I'm fine with Lance, SnS (very versatile weapon, makes sense,) CB, and LS having counters. Rise is definitely experimental, but I think it's an important experiment to try out a lot of stuff. I'm glad Impact Crater is no longer useful though (Impact Burst is much better) because man, base rise hammer playstyle of Impact Crater spam was kinda cringe.
It's def true that each subsequent title has increased the complexity of combat, and so it moves further away from that og MH. But i dont think that's a bad thing, the alternative is they don't change and we get the same oldgen MH formula just with more monsters and gear. I would rather it get crazier before it gets too dull
The wirebug geniuenly made me resent playing the new game. I already disliked the clutch claw in World, though there it felt more optional as it was only a small increase in efficiency, now the wirebug feels like something you have to do or youll lack behind a lot. I dont think Im gonna buy and play the next MH game if they keep something like the wirebug
I've recently played and finished MH freedom and have just finished Unite the night I'm writing this, but something I really dont want monster hunter to lose is its personality. I'm not saying limited use pickaxes/bugnets and whetstones should come back, that stuff can stay gone, but Rise is so fast paced and although its fun for sure its just not what really appeals to me about Monster Hunter. World did a great job of feeling like an immersive and interactive environment while maintaining a vibe comparable to earlier MH gens and I hope they build upon that
I think the issue is the teams over at Capcom aren't considering Power Creep as much as they used to before the popularity of World. Ever since World exploded you can see they just add in tons of power creep to keep people interested in the franchise. We can see that with Icebourne and then Rise. Hopefully they don't continue pushing the boundaries as hard as they have. It makes the game more of an unga bunga shit showfest instead of a serious dance with the monsters you are fighting.
As someone who has grown up with monster hunter since I was 10 my first game was Gen on the 3ds and I have now played every single game (4U is my favorite with many months of gameplay on it and sunbreak being my 2nd Favorite). I always loved the new gimmicks brought in the games except for the clutch claw. The wire bugs I like and hope to have some sort of form of them in the future is because of how they opened up the maps so much. There is so much more to jump around and explore instead of the climb up this rope/vine and get to this area faster via this rope/vine. I feel like they make the game a lot more streamlined and fun to move around and explore. I never tried to find secret areas in older games cause it was slow and boring while in sunbreak I feel like I know every part of the map so well. I agree that they can be very in your face with the skills and stuff but I hope maybe they tone it down and make a simpler version of them.
I absolutely agree. This is why when all is said in done, despite every entry in the series making new stuff, 4 Ultimate is still peak Monster Hunter to me. It has all the weapons we need, the verticality we need yet the gameplay very much feels like classic Monster Hunter. Still has the hardest G-Rank and the best story.
It's interesting because that's exactly what I thought when I go back to Iceborne after beating Rise, before sunbreak drops ofc. I was thinking man why so much glitter on screen and why does the map has so many stuff when I only need a flat surface and my cat. I think Rise is in some capacity a return to simplicity, an emphasis on combat instead of being all around flashy like world. And oh boy did they turn the combat to 11 in sunbreak. WIrebug solved some long-persisting problems like monster kills you when you stands up--it just feels unfair and wirefall solved it somewhat elegantly. It can get you out of hairy situations without being a get-out-of-jail-free card. I hope they keep a similar kind of mechanic but who knows. I would like to compare MH to fighting game, you are not playing the same game, you are playing 14 different mini-games and depending on your weapon the score varies wildly: one of the best feeling weapons is the LS, I think they nailed the weapon this game--you have to be very fluid and use every skill depending your current situation and resources. Bow can hardly feel the wirebug system but got a lot from the new overpowered armor sets while dualblade just become a drill machine. I think they nailed some weapons and missed the marks on others, as per usual. I hope they keep what worked and I don't mind if they make weapons more different so some players can enjoy simple hunts and others can play their piano.
UA-cam decided not to show me this until now, but I agree with you completely Herny. Every time I play Rise or World I feel like there's no stakes to anything and I get bored really quickly, but I started replaying Tri on Dolphin a little while back and I was so in the moment for all the hunts and exploration. My character was so limited in what they can do, and the atmosphere is, in my opinion, much stronger when the monsters are stronger than you are. Why am I gonna be scared of a monster when I can put on my everything-proof mantle or launch myself halfway across the map immediately? As you say, the moves the monsters use have gotten much more annoying to compensate for the insane increase in power for the hunter, and I personally really don't enjoy playing against the dumb moves monsters have now - in Iceborne when I saw them letting Zinogre and Rajang bounce out of staggers I knew it had gone too far. They break basic rules of MH in kind of unprepared ways and it doesn't sit right with me. Gypceros playing dead was cool because it was part of his character as a monster and he would have sucked even harder without it. Rajang and Zinogre randomly deciding to not be staggered that time just felt arbitrary. This is a very specific example, but across the cast the moves got sillier and I just don't want it to always be that way. If we don't get a more stripped back MH soon I think I'm gonna be done with the series, and that's really sad to say when I've been so into the series since discovering it in 2010. I just don't want it to be anime simulator.
To me, Rise is more of an experimental entry in the series, where they took the base of World's quality of life improvements and tried to see how crazier they can make the combat with elements and flavor from GU, and are using the feedback for the next main entry. The combat has intensified due to the amount of mobility wirebugs give you in contrast to the more stiff controls of previous games, resulting in the monsters needing more aggressiveness to compensate. Good video as always!
Its always been that way, theres a more serious title (world) and then a more experimental one comes out (MHXX and Rise) rinse and repeat
For sure, I honestly really liked the elements that they took from GU, & implemented into world in a more grounded sense. I assume they’ll do the same with Sunbreak. There’s actually many elements from Sunbreak I hope they keep in MH6 (or w/e they make) but just slightly toned down. I enjoy all the spice and the flashy stuff, I just don’t want it to go tooooo far lol & Thank you my man I really enjoy your videos 🤌🏽
if they wanted fan feedback, rise wouldn’t have been made the way it is. clutch claw was extremely controversial as was the lack of difficulty and gimmicky bosses like alatreon judgement and they doubled down on it here.
Rise was in development around the same time as World.
nice opinion but collab with herny when
Switch Skills really are the best version of implementing the ‘Hunting Styles’ idea, really hope they keep them or something similar as a mainstay.
I just hope they balance them so certain switch skills aren't just so obviously better
@@aiellamorisome switch skills are there to compensate for player skill, to give people an easier time
Though I agree they can go a bit crazy on the switch skill and introduce a lot more variety with different styles of gameplay mind
Yeah thematically switch skills are so far removed from wire bugs it would be so easy to keep them for future titles if wire bugs never make a return.
Yeah but I prefered the styles in GU they were just more fun
I love the switch skills and the movility that the wirefall and all the movility it gives. Same with the clutch claw and Sling. I think some form of all that Will transpire into the New mainline series... Thats how it has alwais been: they add new things, that things get out of hand and then they get some of them again for the next installmen... And some just dissapear
Always a nicer day when you drop a vid ^^ Good job putting together the thoughts that a good amount of us feel :) I love me some classic cheeseburgers myself.
Don't we all! (Looking forward to the next Title Update really just to get my every other month Gaijin content in form of Third Fleet lol cya there!)
Frog 🐸
>.>
Nothing like a new Herny video to improve your day
Thank you my man, was happy to see your return as well a while back 🤌🏽
MH is a series that I want to see switch it up with every entry, including going back to basics sometimes. Keeps the game fresh and gives each title its own identity.
How would going back to basics make a new entry unique? Thats literally just regression towards a previous title that already exists. I'm asking because if we can ask the right questions then we can truly get to an answer that fixes the actual problem. what exactly are we looking for in a new title?
@@nicjolas I assume they mean making games that have some extra skills to use like GU and Rise, but also still making games that don’t have those extra flashy bits too. Doesn’t make every single game unique, but mixing it up every once in a while can help keep things fresh
World went back to f***ing basics -__-
Cause it's fresh at the time. Same reason why COD started going futuristic and then went back. People want to experience new things, and sometimes, having the old realiable with current graphics is all you want after 5 years of trying new things. But it's not really a problem, since MH has been doing this from the start. They make an OG game, they make another game with an experimental mechanic, maybe two games, and then they release another OG game.@@nicjolas
Wilds: Adds Slinger, Clutch Claw, and Wirebugs all in one
Something that used to be really important in monster hunter, before we got all the counters and long s, was positioning. It is still something you gotta think about, but not as much as you used to back before generations.
running around feels so boring. im really glad that now you can focus more on fighting instead of running around.
@@blackyraypatrick9041 well, positioning is part of the combat, I'm not talking about the running from area to area.
@@Koijn2K i know and in my opinion 30 seconds of running around a monster until you get to the right position for channeling your attack is really boring.
i prefer using the wirebug for jumping to the position. it let's me fight earlier again.
@@blackyraypatrick9041 i miss it because if you were good at it, you didn't have to run around for 30 seconds to get an attack in...
@@blackyraypatrick9041 Positioning isn't running around until you see an opening, it's knowing an opening is coming so you don't need to run all the time.
You make a great point Herny, they should bring back the magnet spike in the next title
Pobo! We also need the one and only Pobo (-rubarumu)! I am astonished how we have managed to play through all these games without being blessed by the presence of this adorable Akantor shaped hunting horn whale.
Honestly there are a lot of Frontier Monsters that have interesting and unique concepts that would add way more value than 70% of the World additions. Sadly the only Frontier ports to date are Lavasioth and Espinas, which imo are quite lacking compared to what could've been.
Frontier 2 is coming, I can feel it COPIUM
Herny
@@DevilJhoMamaThat is his name, yes.
Honestly i loved the Sling thing from World, i felt that it became a little too much when we got the Clutch Claw but i liked the way we could use it to interact it with our weapons and monsters so for me it was the best weve got so far...
Plus it felt natural. A grappling hook/sling shot. Nothing game breaking but opened up for unique plays and environment interactions
My only real gripe with it is that it forced armor to have one gauntlet different than the other, but an version that doesn’t intrude on armor design would be great.
Also clutch claw would need a rebalance/rework. It shouldn’t be a necessary mechanic to avoid bloated time.
I agree with the slingshots stuff and I also didn't really like the clutch claw part. I found it fun to slam monsters into walls like the silk spider in rise(can't rmb the name, marionette?) Because those felt limited. whereas the clutch claw was "anytime I see the not enraged symbol".
@@johncronk8867 clutch claw rework where it simply doesn't exist hopefully
@@johncronk8867world is already better without CC
"I feel like I'm managing cool downs and meters"
This man is spittin'. I felt that
it's become an MMO now hasn't it... :P
@@wits_end. All events that were once limited time are available now, there's no need to mod. You DO need to be connected to the internet, though, which is bullshit.
@@Sephyroth97 Not quite. There are some events that were removed, like the MonHun movie one that gave the Artemis armor set, and the Assassin Creed one to get the hood. As someone who started playing very recently, this was very disappointing.
I wouldn’t mind if it was MMO it’s just One shots and DPS checks shouldn’t be what makes a boss fight hard, especially not for something like MH
@@wits_end. shintaro?
As much as I've enjoyed Rise, I still feel the strongest about my time playing tri and 4u, and that I really miss how much less complicated and flashy it was
The only thing stopping me from getting into 3u is figuring out how that talisman table works on newgame files.
@@Hibernial Athena's fish finder my friend. It sounds daunting but it's really not that bad. I've been playing on my character I made back when I was a kid in 2013 and only recently figured out what table I have. Table 7 is a mid table but that hasn't stopped me from maxing my build as much as I can. 3U is an amazing game and still has a couple dozen people playing online
Great video, Herny. I think your point about cooldowns and meters taking focus away from the fundamentals at 7:30 speaks home to me the most. It became especially apparent with the wirebug cooldowns on screen that I feel I spend way too much time staring at during hunts. It was present even back when we were staring at Absolute Readiness' gauge or wystone timers, but I think those games did a better (but not perfect) job of not taking away from the core combat.
Thank you my man! And dude I literally said the same thing today on stream, & wish I said it in the video as well. Exactly, we definitely spend way more time looking at the cooldowns here than we ever did before. And in the case of GU, where we did have some really strong abilities. We only got a couple per hunt. Thigns like Critical juncture, Corkscrew Jab, Wolfs Maw, the old Shoryugeki. You’d get like 3-4 of those per hunt. But the wirebug moves, we’re blasting out like a dozen per hunt, maybe more. It’s fun yea but it def starts to feel different after a while.
to be totally honest, i havent had this issue, it likely depends on the weapon you play. for me, i play a lot of weapons that don’t need wirebugs much, like lbg and lance. as such, weapons like cb and ls feel worse because they’re not just hard to manage on their own, but REQUIRE wirebugs, which is a big oversight in balance to me. you should be able to play with or without, but some weapons lean in TOO heavily while others don’t at all.
"powercreeps" thats what i felt since the first year of Rise.
monster hunter was about preparation, method of a hunts, and move prediction, rather than combos, counters, and cooldowns from what MHX/MHRise forced us to do.
and you're right about monster is getting crazier, it's because the hunter had so many powerful move tools, and crazy damages that monsters need to be crazier to catch up. That is the definition of Power creeps.
that's why I somewhat agrees if someone said,
"Rise is just another Hack&slash game that pleasing power fantasy instead of realism that we loved back then" or
"Rise will be dead if the power creeps continue."
You say what I've felt for a long time.
My biggest problem with the series currently is the fact that my hunter is literally a god amongst men. Nothing could stop him with all his skills, abilities, infinite items, and two batshit crazy AI companions (which makes online hunts 8vs1 in the worst case).
I go into almost every quest with the mindset, "yep, I'm about to fuck shit up, cuz I'm unstoppable."
Don't get me wrong, it can be fun at times to just wreck everything in your path, but there is nothing that I miss more than being genuinely scared of a monster encounter. Back when the monster was way stronger than my measly human in every aspect.
Brute forcing my way through a battle was tough, so strategy, game knowledge, preparation, and solid execution were all major parts necessary for a completed quest.
When standing in front of a massive angry dinosaur 10 times my height, I dont want my only thoughts to be "okay big guy, do your one move so I can counter and then follow up with my wirebug move. Lets get this done quickly." I prefer to feel the weight of success or failure in every decision I make. I want to think, "How in the world am I gonna beat that thing?"
And when you finally slay the monster after 30 minutes of hard fought battle, no more potions left, down to your last cart... there is no better feeling in gaming to me.
Thats what I play Monster Hunter for.
I do not want to be a super hero, I am not the chosen one destined to save the world. All I am is an ordinary man with a simple profession. I am a hunter; killing beasts is simply part of the job. And the job should be difficult yet fulfilling and leave me with a sense of pride. Thats my two cents about it.
Nicely said dude
That's exactly my issue. Monster Hunter peaked at 4U imho. It allowed us to traverse via climbing/jumping from ledges and mounting monsters but it never felt overdone. Your character did not feel like some anime protag doing double/triple jumps mid-air, utilizing clutch claws or wire bugs, and having these wild attacks.
IMO is the issue is more the ease of use of counters and i-frames. The windows are too big. I personally really enjoy the more reactive play style and I-framing stuff but it’s way too easy to pull off and even master in Rise due to the extremely generous frame counts.
@@ArborusVitae Rise has the least s in the entire series… it has the most counters tho
@@chizitaraigwe3674 and thats one of the reasons why i use the bow, the other is so i dont have to deal with whetstone to actually be viable
This is something I've been thinking about when Iceborne first released regarding the clutch claw, (Side note: I actually like the CC and always did, this isn't about that) I felt that because of the CC monsters needed to be "souped up" to keep up with hunters or at least compensate for the power given to players via the CC, this also made me realize why Lunastra was the way she was in Base World, it was to compensate for the fact people were abusing mantles and flash pods, and then when Rajang was added to Iceborne I immediately recognized what was going on...
My conclusion was (and still is) that since making a MH game that has Hunter styles/Wirebugs/Clutch Claw or else with an option to disable them isn't gonna work **Starts glaring intensely at GU's guild style** they should just separate the Flagship games for each generation (ie Tri, MH4, World...etc) from the Portable games (ie P3rd, MHGen, Rise) for said generations by making the former a bit more grounded with the "core MH experience" while the latter has all the over the top stuff that's designed to be adrenaline rush inducing and just pure fun.
Nobody abused mantles amd flashbombs, they used them as intented by the devs as a hame mechanic.. if they didn't want people "abusing" mantles and flashbombs they shouldnt have put them in the game as they were, "fixing" a game game mechanic they themselves made for the game by making monsters being absolute bullshit is really absolute bullshit in on itself..
@@elitereptilian200 Well maybe you're right about mantles, but oh boy flash bomb spam was real back then... imagine a 4 player team each with 3 bombs and then an additional 10 flashbugs to craft more, that's 52 flash bombs on a single monster... and the only immunity they had to it is a shorter flashed period but other than that if a monster started flying, or if Teo started to supernova, or if any monster even thought of leaving a zone you just flash them and bada bing bada boom infinite stun spam achieved, congratulations on your 2 minute hunt.
@@Nasa1423 I got lucky and I had a group of people to play world with who most certainly did not do that with flashbombs and even when I played with randos I don't remember people being that annoying with them.. but.. then again.. it is a intented game mechanic made specifically combat things like teos supernova and I for one appreciate people who rather flash him out of than let him cart the whole team..
@@Nasa1423 In MHGU you could do the same thing and people did for harder fights. You could carry 5 flash bombs and enough materials to build 10 more, so the team could bring 60 bombs. The mechanic was exactly the same: monsters built immunity to the blinded effect but if they could be flashed then were never immune to the flinch (and thus dropping out of the sky). I don't really know why MHW gets special criticism here other than simply because so many more people played it.
I’ve always found each game’s monster+ system (apex, hyper, tempered, anomaly) to be rather…distasteful. Regardless of game, I always have the most fun with me, my weapon, and a vanilla monster. There’s a place for these higher systems, but man. They’re not the game, ya know. They’re just extra sauce. Feels like we’re getting drowned in sauce in the recent installments
Edit: I should have watched the rest of the video first, now I feel like I just said what he said lol
So you’re complaining about having variety
Yeah I feel that.
@@josephfrancis3250 Read what he's saying
@@josephfrancis3250 having the same monster with slightly different appearance and 90% of the same moves is not variety. It’s just boring. I’d rather have a few subspecies and vanilla monsters then higher tier. Obviously Master rank, high rank and low rank makes sense but yeah
@@josephfrancis3250 MH difficulty should have stuck to being about more complex quests rather then "AFFLICTED RISEN CRIMSON GLOW VALSTRAX". I have infinetly more fun in MHFU and MH3U's endgame than in the endgame of the two most recent entries.
The one-upping progression you mentioned reminds me of how Elden Ring feels when compared to the Souls series. In Souls, bosses have properly telegraphed, deliberate movements that look and feel natural. Souls fights (usually) feel fair, and if you die it was because you came unprepared or simply need to learn the fight. In Elden Ring, most bosses have some crazy bullshit move or mechanic that encourages or forces the player to basically cheat in order to win. If you run up against a wall, chances are you just don't have the right gear to beat the boss and no amount of practice is going to help you.
I'm not saying Monster Hunter is like that yet, but the fact that the more classical play styles are slowly becoming outright unusable in high-level hunts might be an indicator on which direction the series is headed. I really hope MH6 doesn't go the Elden Ring route...
mhgu had a good balance of this imo, there was complexity but you also had the option to use the simple basic styles we all know without being punished for it.
exactly why i can't stop coming back to gu
And the best thing about GU is that the basic Playstyle is just as effective as the complex styles if you know what I mean.
GU is a masterpiece of a game
@@w0nderlord02 Well, Valor was definitely a bit too good lol.
TOTALLY AGREE, and the variety of sets and old school style of armor skills only added to this IMO
Try fighting ex bloodbath with guild style. Good luck
Sarcasm aside, I feel like deviant and hyper monsters were balanced around everything that wasn't guild style. With some of the endgame fights, it feels damn near impossible without valor style or adept evade etc. Trying to play gu like 4u (guild style) in endgame is incredibly punishing
Honestly, I feel like MH Generations did it right. Hunter Arts doesn't fill up automatically; the player must strike the beast in order to charge it. Hunter Arts is the payoff- but the biggest reward is that the player would learn that by anticipating monsters' attacks they can dodge and retaliate with one of their own, thus fill up their Hunter Arts more often.
Funny enough, the Hunter Art system wasn't a special move button as it was perceived, but an art of making the player a better hunter...
I feel like MH4U is kind of the golden standard of Monster Hunter. And I think vibes are a bigger part of the game than a lot of people might realize.
4U is still the best MH a decade later
Agreed, the flow of your progression feels organic. The moveset is smaller so each move has to be deliberate, if you fucked up, it's your own fault. This kind of simplicity and underdogs dynamic is what elevated 4u to be the best in the franchise. Also the story is pretty neat
"vibes" is a combination of a lot of things, doesn't really make sense to use it to say something is good when you don't describe what made those "vibes"
I've noticed that for the West (or "international market" perhaps?) this seems to be the case, but in Japan 4U is controversial, or at best people are like "yeah it was great but it had big issues." Personally, I think 4U village experience is "golden standard" as you say, but can't say I like the way Guild Quests and its reward worked. I always find this dissonance between the West and Japan pretty interesting.
@@Zero0mtk I'd say that the community is guilty of making the guild quests seem worse than they actually are, most notably with the mindless insistence on spamming nothing but Rajang quests, when in reality every single monster with an apex state, as well as elder dragons, is very good for the grind that people decided themselves to do. And speaking of the grind, why stress over that? Getting top tier relics already requires you to beat the hardest quests in the game, so realistically they are just a neat extra to happen upon at the end of it. Players dug their own graves here, and now the game should be criticized for that? Seems wrong to me.
I always worry about complaints like people not wanting wirebugs, because for me, wirebugs are way to broad of a concept. They are 1) movement tools to be used in and out of combat 2) A resource tied to a variety of different abilities, most of which are either highly damaging, or have i-frames/counters (+wirefall)
As movement tools, I don't think wire bugs have a particularly big effect on the game. Being in the air is generally not particularly useful and you fall down quick enough, and its rare that horizontal wiredashing will be particularly more helpful than rolling or running.
I have a far bigger issue with moves that have lots of I frames, hyperarmor or are counters. The main thing that set monster hunter apart from other games was how positioning worked, and how it lead to monsters feeling substantially different. Having easily accessible s and hyperarmor means that staying infront of the mosters face is not difficult, and in some cases encouraged far more than any other strategy, leading to both monsters feeling less unique, and the franchise feeling less unique. And the problem with complaining about wirebugs is that while wirebugs are very much tied with these mechanics, they aren't intrinsincly related, so removing wirebugs doesn't neccesarily solve the problems their existence brings. World is the game that introduced tackle and foresight-slash into the standard movesets of weapons, so rather than seeing rise an expreimental game, I feel like its the logical conclusion of where World was going, and I fully expect MH6 to still double down on having easy access to hyperarmor, i-frames, and counters.
Overall, when people say they expect MH6 to be more like world, I still expect it to have the problems world began to introduce and rise inherited, so I kind of have little hope in ever enjoying the franchise as much as I liked the older games, even as someone who started with World.
Personally I have felt Rise/Sunbreak to be kinda shallow in general for a while now, and I could never really put my finger on why. But something you said in the video REALLY struck a chord. How like, you're always trying to land "that one move".
I find myself always trying to land Bullet Barrage with Gunlance, or always trying to stick to the monster with Switch Axe, or always trying to land True Charge / Strong Arm Stance with Great Sword. Why? Because the game kinda enables you.
In older games, it felt very satisfying to land these moves because they were hard to hit and there was a lot of risk to throwing them out. And getting away with it felt really good. But in Rise, your "Super moves" let's call them, are so easily accessible, not terribly hard to land, and with a few exceptions there isn't much risk to just throwing them out since a lot of our Super Moves don't have much end lag, and every weapon has a counter of some sort. EVEN IF you get hit, it's pretty easy to just disengage from the fight and heal very quickly and of course there isn't much risk in healing since you can run while doing so. Generations Ultimate is an example of good Super Moves, because even if you whiff it, or you use them at the wrong time ect, your punishment is that now you have to build the art back up, which can take some time and requires you to engage with the Monster, while in Rise you just have to wait for your wire bugs to come back which doesn't take that long. There's just a lot more variety in the moment to moment decisions you make and moves you use mid hunt as a result of the systems in place in the older games.
To use your food analogy, Super Moves are like chocolate, really sweet so it tastes amazing, but too much of it and it starts to taste kinda gross, and maybe even give you diabetes. Sorry for the wall of text I've just really been trying to figure out why I don't really like Rise/Sunbreak that much and I think you finally helped me figure it out.
Your comparison of Hunter Arts vs Wirebugs is a very interesting observation I never thought about and sums up how much of a crutch they are.
Yo the piano, your voice, and the general vibe this video is really cool and chill. Also the transitions and editing are top-tier
This is why I haven't had as much fun in Monster Hunter as I did when I first played MHGU after World (MHW is the first I played period) The simplicity of variety with hunter styles made it so damn fun.
Gotta say, MHGU doesn't have the simplicity, it has lots of hunter arts and styles that add a lot onto the game, I highly recommend playing mh3u or mh4u, those two are the best from the simple formula, no bs, no op shenanigans, just you, the weapon/armor and the monster
take out the word "variety" it doesn't fit with what you're saying. i don't think you people know what you want aside from not being overwhelmed
some people dont understand this comment. having variety doesnt equal complexity during real hunt. thats pretty much it.
Simplicity with hunting styles? Did I read that right? I miss the simple times of mh4u and maybe base world. MHGU and MHRS are far from being the "simple" options IMO.
@@aymodaslacker8852 Exactly what I mean, the variety was very simple, you pick a Hunting Style + Art(s) and thats it, no wirebug, no clutch claw, no mantles.
I'm ok with ditching wirebugs, they just need to give us what the actual goal of the wirebug did without the hyper-action wall run spiderman super fly stuff.
Just give the hunters a dedicated jump, no bells and whistles, nothing that turns every weapon into an insect glaive, just something to get you aerial and clear gaps.
We don't need a grapple hook, and turbo dash, and ukemi on knockdown. Just a jump and allow the basic moveset for each weapon to have additions be incorporated into that.
the silly man finally returns
I love how self contained weapons are in the older games. You can do any move from its moveset or build any resources at any given moment in a hunt. Felt very tight
I can list a couple of moves with a big limit, but GL just takes the cake with how hard Wyvern's Fire is to use for not only middling wake-up damage but a sizable cooldown slapped on it as well. With things like managing sharpness and resources like 3U spirit gauge, GU heat bar, or SA/CB phials, there's been a ton of clunky meter management in the past which have been improved in later titles
As a swax main I actually rarely spam it's counter. I basically play like how you describe how we used to. I use every move. Plus swax has some fun combos that never get old
I feel you there completely, I try to do the same with Hammer and not use impact crater on every down, even though so much power was pooled into it. Since I still love using the golf swing and the rest of the move set which is still so good in Rise. Also ngl I’m very inexperienced with rise SA lol
swaxe is kind of the exception I agree
Same here, I can't even find the right moment to initiate the counter anyways so I just play Swaxe like I've always done lol.
I hate how we're supposed to spam the 1 move with weapons now. It's kind of ironic since I'm a GS main and it's usually memed as being the tcs spam weapon. But strongarm feels so boring
Similar thing here with my DB, I know the spiral slash skill is meta with DB and because you can easily spam the move it kinda feels like I'm boiling down an already simplistic weapon to a just one move
Also an important point for me is the identity of the weapons and how it got lost over the MH games, as an example in the lance was always the primary "counter" weapon or let's say the one with the biggest and "best" selection of counters, or in some game like base tri, it was pretty much the only weapon with counters possiblitys, but with the time and with the universal tools hunters got, the lance got heavily left behind, today every weapon can counter like lance or today every weapon can KO a monster like hammer or today all weapons got the mobility of the IG, you get waht I mean. And for me the identity to my weapon and that only I can do that 1 thing the most efficient is really important, so I stopped playing MH games since rise cause I just don't feel validated to play a weapon like lance if some weapons do lance job way better than the originaly counter weapon
I have should describe lance as the weapon with the best defence and not best "counters" but it's still applies, lance doesn't have the best defence anymore by a long shot
As a Lancer, I completely agree. I chose my weapon because it’s really cool standing tall against nukes while countering the medium hits, but now everyone can do that? I’m really tired of weapons losing their identity because Capcom doesn’t want anyone feeling left out. I don’t know if they haven’t realized or just don’t care, but adding these huge gimmicks to every weapon means only a few will really see use
Fr I’ve been a lance main since Tri, but finally ended up giving it up in World because other weapons just completely outshined it. And Rise made it even worse.
Edit: I still main lance in older titles, so I still consider it my main. Going through P3rd with it rn.
I agree. With the wirebugs and switch skills, every weapon feels the same. Now every weapon has a counter. In previous game, the hammer for example felt different than the other weapons BECAUSE it had no counter and you had to approach the fight differently.
I started rise with longsword and have been learning lance the feel of both weapons feel completely different in a good way in my opinion countering with longsword won't save you from every attack you would have to be a god at the game to do that which most casual players including me will never reach I have had less carts since I started using lance
That's not the result of the wirebugs, that's the result of the devs adding so many counters and other ways to tank through things. And well, Lance kinda got the short end of the stick in both of the most recent games. But SA got a horrific treatment in base World and it being good in IB was moreso a coincidence.
@@thenonexistinghero Yeah I agree I honestly think the skill bloat or how skills work + the dangos in rise for example really contribute a lot to this. If you think about it there are actually an insane amount of tools / counters in the game, it just isn't convenient or viable / can be overwhelming to try and use them all, which IMO just tells me there is too much.
We already had flash bombs, sonic bombs, barrel bombs, traps, environmental traps in world, palico abilities, items to jack up defense, skills to improve guards, s, flinches, health recovery, etc. A lot of those are situational which almost makes it worse since you never have a reason to really use them since you can beat the monsters just fine without them already, but you still feel like you aren't fully experiencing the game if you don't take advantage of them. It's just lead to a lot of bloat and player confusion on how they are meant to actually enjoy the game.
new MH did the impossible for me, it made me not hate flying wyverns
I'm very grateful for that
I think the most frustrating aspect of silkbind moves for me is that they were already done well in GenU. Having to earn hunter arts by engaging with the normal combat mechanics worked perfectly fine, but having silkbind moves refresh off of time alone makes them way too spammable, especially since you can lower the cooldown with extremely easy to fit in armor skills. Hunter Arts felt like an added bit of flare to GenU's combat loop whereas at times it feels like silkbinds *are* the combat loop of Sunbreak, and if you aren't spamming them you're almost playing the game wrong. At the risk of sounding overly cynical sometimes Sunbreak almost feels like a MOBA where your ultimate is always off cooldown.
In Generations, getting a hunter art charged up felt like getting a super in a fighting game. Soooo much more satisfying. I definitely agree with the MOBA bit.
Waiting to charge up your super meter is significantly worse than just having another attack.
The balance is rise isn't spam this move whenever I have wirebugs, its do I use this move or this move with my wirebugs or do I save them to wirefall.
Wirebugs can be used offensively or defensively but not are the same "meter"
@@paulbunions8580denial
@@paulbunions8580meter is much better tho. If you're good in Rise you can just spam supers, not so in GU.
Atleast you aren't forced to use hunter arts and styles in Gens
These are all valid. The main thing I have always considered is that Monster Hunter was almost always based on a concept of physics and had somewhat a physics-related animation set. Think of Souls tier weapons, they're huge and you can really feel the impact of it. That was always the game's forte. Right now, they're trying to speed up the pace of the hunt so exponentially that if it keeps up this way MH6 will have players completing objectives in 30 seconds.
And "Landing X attack as much as you can" has basically become the routine DPS flow chart for everything except Bowguns.
The main problem I have with this game is that I played through with my favorite weapon, Insect Glaive (or bugsticc), and truly just felt despised by the game devs. Not only was every other weapon given aerial mobility, every other weapon was also given _way more useful_ silkbind attacks than the *LITERAL WEAPON THAT DEALS WITH INSECTS.* The honest worst part about the entire thing is that bugsticc still has no counter moves and now almost _every other weapon_ has a form of counter move.
Do you. Know. How frustrating. It is. To play IG. With Monster hitboxes. The way they are. Due to. The counter meta?
I have never been so frustrated with the game, getting slapped by literal tail sweeps, on the ground, when i'm 10 feet above them. I always used the aerial attacks as openers, after recovering from a dodge because LoL all I can do is dodge. Only to get swatted out of the air by the enemy slapping the ground.
There is also still blatant favoritism with the weapons and honestly that just shouldn't be a thing anymore. We SHOULD be past that point, but the developers took one look and saw LS at nearly 25% play percentage and said "We need to nerf Lance/Gunlance!"
I love playing HBG to apply status effects quickly and have access to good firepower (sometimes Bow too) Y'know how they treat that? "Lets make melee builds better at status with Status Trigger." They basically gave melee weapons the ability to be the primary status-inducer by having them not worry about items or item availability and just having to *dodge.* Don't worry about me, I ""enjoy"" farming catalysts. Meanwhile the DB user with small paralysis is causing the monster to be stunlocked. I'm not mad, I'm furious.
Everything I want to do is illegal apparently. The developers themselves clearly had weapon families they loved more than others and it 100% shows.
I hope in MH6, item knowledge comes back because they keep shutting down item usefulness. I remember in 3U I could set a baited trap, exhaust the monster in one area, it would flee, eat the trap in a different location. We can't even get basic "nice things" like this.
Landing X attack as much as you can literally describes the combat routine for every monster hunter though. There will always be a best attack/combo for each weapon that you will use as often as possible. In Rise those attacks are bigger than previously but the game plan is the same. Obviously you are going to use your strongest move whenever you can.
Also, I haven't actually played longsword in Rise but from what I've heard they absolutely gutted its numbers in Sunbreak compared to base Rise. And I also think that buffing melee status is a good change, sue me. Bowguns have basically had a monopoly on status for decades. I'm so sick of people hyperbolising the state of weapon balance. Idk about sunbreak but in base rise speedrun times for weapons were within like 1 minute of each other for almost all monsters. I've played PvP games with way worse balance and I am literally going to snap if I see one more monster hunter player acting like the most opressed minority on earth because their favourite weapon takes 2-3 minutes longer to kill the funny lizard.
People hated mantles for cheesyness and yet wirebugs were always more op
There's a couple of things that I've discussed with friends that both enjoy the game and others that don't. One is that preparation is virtually nonexistent in Rise - with things like Hot/Cold drinks being gone and the monster being immediately visible on the map. Restocking anytime means there is no tension with regards to bringing materials to safely clear a hunt. The other is similar to what you have detailed - that we as hunters have a bevy of tools to counter and lock down the monster now, so the response from the monsters is now a lot of one-shot potential moves and moves designed to catch wirefalling. The sense of danger has shifted from surviving the environment and the monster over a longer hunt, to playing in fear of a one-shot move (that you can usually counter in some way). It isn't necessarily a BAD thing, but it's certainly different. Rise for me is a lot less Monster Hunter, and a lot more straight up Monster Fighter, even though I still enjoy it.
Monster Hunter World was perfect. It didn't need any significant changes, all it needed was... more of it. It was THAT good. They really nailed the formula for me in that game. The only thing I would take from MHR and take it into MHW are the dog palico (cause the idea was there in World but was implemented really poorly) and the new monsters.
World was still boring. Rise actually made MH fun because it finally felt like a proper game and not "What if we did slow/deliberate combat like Dark Souls, but not as good".
imagine thinking world is slow🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@kingkiller14000Except Monster Hunter came before Dark Souls.
Monster hinter world was my first monster hunter and it was extremely boring to me.
always running for ages and positioning yourself. so many drinks potions and else needed for preperation before finally getting the chance to do whats fun personally for me. hitting and killing monsters.....
Monster hunter rise did a great Job for more casual players to focus more on these aspects. i understand the criticism of old school Monster hunter players. but I personally don't think that it will be gone. they just make a new genre inside of the genre with the same IP.
MHW is still much more popular and I dont think they will throw away this userbase. they just like to get more players into the market with multiple playstiles divided over different MH games...
@@daylem5829 without the movement tools, gapclosers and more and longer s it is. because you need to play much more patient and tactical....
The thing about that evening out is that it can make things less fair. Theres a game I quite enjoy called Vermintide that has this problem. Its a game about attrition. You progress through a level and try not to make mistakes in combat. Every mistake costs you health. Health is replenished using resources you find during the level. If the rate you make mistakes exceeds the rate you progress to find health items, you lose.
In Vermintide 2, they screwed this up by adding talents and abilities that significantly increase player power. Most notably, the ability to effectively heal yourself by fighting. This fundamentally breaks the core gameplay loop. You can't get slowly worn down by mounting mistakes and increasing tension when you go into every fight with effectively full hp. But despite this, I'd say Vermintide 2 is considerably harder than Vermintide 1. But its not as fair.
In order to actually challenge a player who is effectively immune to the intended gameplay challenge of dwinding resources and increasing tension, they throw more stuff at you and make the core combat more difficult. This increases the challenge, but its a different kind of challenge and its a less fair challenge. In Vermintide 1, you generally see a loss coming. It comes at the end of rising tension as your supplies dwindle. You lose people on your team as they go down. It provides great moments where you can clutch a victory and losses feel fair. You never just turn the corner into a mountain of bullshit and wipe from full health.
In Vermintide 2, you generally go into the fight that wipes you with full hp. In fact, your party might be on full hp only 30 seconds or so before a wipe. Theres no mounting tension as your health, supplies, and numbers dwindle, because thats not how the game challenges you any more. It challenges you by overwhelming you, not wearing you down. You lose the tension. The potential for clutch plays is still there, but much rarer, and much less fair. It's more like you outbullshitted the enemy.
My point is to take this example from one game franchise and relate it back to monster hunter. People will argue with you about these bells and whistles by saying things like "you're still losing to Risen Valstrax". They will point to the difficulty level of the game as if it still being hard means its still the same as it used to be. But that just isn't the case. If a monster nuked the arena the moment you arrived it'd be hard, but it wouldn't be fair. And likewise, if the monsters have to be faster, more aggressive, have wider reach and extended attacks to counter the players increased offensive tools, then a simple hunter swinging a telephone pole sized sword is going to have a less fair fight.
Thats not to say all extra tools are bad, but its to point out that by adding new tools, the old ones become less important. Making the monsters stronger to counter your new toys might make the fight the same difficulty, but that doesn't mean it'll be the same fight.
EDIT: So I typed this up while half way through the video and you proceeded to say basically the exact same thing, so I guess I'm preaching to the choir on that one. Leaving it up anyway, but that's pretty funny.
I'm happy the series is innovating and expanding, but I've found that the MH games that keep me engaged and satisfied the longest are the ones with the most limited movement and the simpler movesets where you're primarily using the same low- to mid-tier functional attacks instead of constantly spamming the heftiest and flashiest moves. It's weirdly more complex and feels more nuanced when there are less options, despite that sounding crazy
Nah it sounds PERFECT. Look how far O, r1 and R2 carried Dark Souls.
It's just like in boxing. Every boxer says tje most versatile punch is the jab. That single attack creates endless options depending on the context.
@@gothxm This reminds me of how Vanilla Minecraft is designed compared to many mods. In base Minecraft, you are given items with very basic functionality and interactions, but we used those interactions to construct a vast array of things with advanced uses: Numerous forms of TNT cannons, large-scale transportation, things that test the limits of physics, LITERALLY MAKING A COMPUTER THAT RUNS MINECRAFT IN MINECRAFT. Many mods allow us similar high-end capabilities, but they’re often within one simple-to-use tool; there’s not much flexibility, and what you see is often what you get.
I think a cool mechanic to add instead of wire bugs could be a jump button.
Keeps it simple and still opens more combat techniques.
and this is why we can't agree on anything, if they wanted to put in a jump button they should've done that but saying it's just cool movement it disregards most of the issues that people have with wirebugs, i don't want down recovery i prefer the invincibility frames, i don't want the wirebug to be integrated into my weapon move set in some cases it's limiting especially with the longsword, there's more pinning moves because of wirebug and if you're out of wirebugs and they're on cooldown well there's nothing you can do it's just bad, if they made the wirebug only for movement and nothing else it would have been ok but it is not and it's a problem, NO MORE WIREBUGS i will spam this shit until the end of time if i have to, and don't get me started on the stupid throwing a barrel to self parry wirebug cheese strats
there’s already jumping in world, it’s just not doable at any moment
@@Razyeldevcrying over pin moves because "muh cooldown? Seems like a skill issue to me, its almost like the game is actively trying to tell players, especialy the "spam muh wirebug to win lol so easy lmao trash game" that no, you shouldnt be spamming wirebugs like a brainless moron, pretty much like old mh titles would say,in the form of a ass wooping, that you should try to spam attack on monsters, no matter how fast you think your weapons are.
@@vast9467 he says there's already jumping in world like it's the only MH game where you can jump 💀💀
But jumping on demand is why I like IG. The verticality makes it really unique, and let's me dodge attacks in unique ways.
If you give it to everyone, the only thing IG has left going for it is the kinsect... and honestly, I'd rather just have the glaive part without the kinsect.
I agree man. I miss when MH felt simple and not an ever-growing quilt of systems and optimizations to assemble
MH hasn't been like that since 4.
hey brother, just hoping you're taking a break and nothing bad has happened, Loving the content, and Looking forward to your new videos!
Games getting simpler or retreading the already beaten paths probably won't sit well with Capcom and players as well. Getting Pokemon syndrome ("This just feels like Pokemon Red version again") isn't good especially if we can expect yet another price tag to get in. Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War had a similar instance where people complained it wasn't new enough with the asset flips and reused animations among other things. God of War and God of War Ragnarok also had similar sentiments where people generally felt it could have just been a relatively expensive, large DLC instead of a new, full price game. It could have just been like a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 + Torna Golden Country.
Probably a good comparison for MHR is Street Fighter, as well as both being from Capcom. That series can kind of be called "Gimmick Fighter". Other fighting games tend to improve on the last a little bit with a slightly new system addition and slap a new title number. SF always has something very new per installment, and now SF6 is basically slapping on everything 5 had all at once with yet more additions which feels like the sentiment for MHR here. If one installment just reverted back, people would complain why it has to be a new game with a new price tag for old ideas.
I think the key here is balancing, I don't think there's anything wrong with adding something to the player, and the monsters, but balancing how powerful those things are are the issue.
Too much extra sauce in the combat for sure. I would love to see the prep stuff deepened to make it feel more like a hunt.
To me Mosnter Hunter shines when it's an uphill battle. One monster against one player being equal feels kinda off. What worked with old gen was that teamwork was practically a necessity. Nowadays multiplayer is riskier than solo without any significant upside.
Yeah sometimes I feel it has gone a little too crazy in terms of what comes up but there are some things that I do like like the speed carving.
I have been playingTri on the 3DS again and it is been really slow but I love the monsters underwater
This beat SLAPS. Thought it was from Persona 5 until I saw you jamming the keys during the beat
I loved the olden tried and true monster turns twice 90 degrees and you slap it's head with greatsword/hammer. Don't think that's exactly gonna come back but hey it's something (You can still do it after some attacks but doesn't feel the same)
The slowness of combat is also why I play the older games from time to time. My dopamine receptors had enough from the non stop spectacles.
The shortest and simplest way I would explain MHs direction is that its leaning much into an "Anime" aesthetic with flashy, weightless attacks and monsters that feel like punching bags rather then threats. I miss the more realisim/low fantasy orientated MH where hunters had to rely on positioning and attacks were much more deliberate and carried weight. Monsters were a product of their environments rather then having a theme like in SB.
Speaking of SB, most of these issues with the series's identity seem to spark from rise and its place as a "portable" title which have always been soley combat orientated, and are the games that tend to experement with wacky mechanics such as wyvern riding and the wirebugs.
I don't like that they removed mounting the monster when hitting an arial attack. Haven't played rise since I realized that lol
Having the opportunity to play the game in its simplest form and it’s still be a fun a interesting game is what we need, I played ice born without learning the clutch claw and it felt like I had to use the full 45 min hunt time almost every time, I was punished for simply playing the same way I played for years
The last video i watched on this channel was you talking about rajang in iceborne, and how they "kinda" changed him for the worse. Then, you've said you were experimenting with the idea of putting your original songs in the videos. And seeing today the product of that decision, you've really done the right thing! I agree with everything in this video (except the water combat part haha), but the most impressive is your evolution in music, and how it complements the video. You really did a great job and i hope you continue to do so.
I feel like MHGU had the best balance between Standart traditional MH Style and Flashy combat style.
And the best thing about it is that both of these „styles“ are effective when played correctly.
MHGU is imo one of the most successful MH Games ever.
XX/GU really was peak. They had the extras on the side but never stopped anyone from enjoying guild style and enjoy that simple style. It was like a little of A a little of B. Nothing felt too out of place and I while I really enjoy 4U simplicity, I still want some ways to vary our hunting styles from one another using the same weapon.
World's far simpler than GU. Tried to go back to GU recently and it took me a few hours to figure out how things work again. No issue like that with World or Rise, I can just jump straight in because micromanagement is a lot simpler. The actual fights are a bit more complex in Rise, I guess thanks to the wirebug. But not in World, outside of the special DLC fights and some late DLC fights, fighting the monsters is simple and straightforward.
The thing about this BS arms race, its that you are slowly and but surely becoming a flashy super hero.
But at the same time mosters lose their mystique and no longer feel terrifying. (Yeah i know, kongalala exists, kutku exists... But you get my point)
For me a lot of the skill in the old games came from positioning and knowing the weaknesses, when you can attack and what moves you should lay low. Beginning with worlds temporal and LS counter it became a different game loop. Rise just lets you dodge anything and fly in the air.
But luckily the temporal mantle is completely optional, and you can always go to a different weapon. The main thing that made world different than the classics was Clutch Claw. But you can get by without using it at all. And of course it's quality of life changes but that's about it.
@@yaboiash6207 you can kick the monster to death if you want to but temporal especially before the patch was mandatory just like clutch is if you don't want to be under leveld against a monster. You could always play rise without wirebugs as well with your logic but that's not a sound argument
@@GothamKili Temporal was never mandatory, hell I've never used it once. And clutch claw is only mandatory for the end game fights, but that's about it honestly. And even that it wasn't anything completely game changing. In rise, wirebugs are the focus of the combat, and when the game first released no monsters were really fit for dealing with the mobility of them. The only one who was meant to combat it was Magnamalo. And the game turned into just managing your wirebugs, cause they practically do everything. They do evasive, counters, attacks, they do everything on every weapon. Which not only makes the weapons lose identity which was what made monster hunter really fun for me in a way. Again, I consider Rise to be a sort of different take on monster hunter, but now it's just wirebug management the game since that's the main things that do damage. Clutch claw actually had flaws, and the temporal mantle got nerfed down to something not completely broken. it'll only save your life 4 times now afterall. But wirebugs come back so fast compared to that, and are also the main source for damage. It's still monster hunter, but just not the same kind I grew up with, as it does honestly feel like a pretty different game. World has it's differences but it was still pretty close to the original, Rise is just... Wirebug management the game now, since everything revolves around that one mechanic.
@@GothamKilitemporal was never compulsory. You mostly use it to speed up farming so you can land as many hits possible while it's active.
No it was. I am Right bye bye. I win.
Monster Hunter was always damn impressive for how much bang it gave you for your buck, technically speaking. It barely ever released on the most impressive systems, but always managed to create something damn impressive within those limitations.
Now that theyre gone, the magic just isnt there anymore. None of the moment to moment things feel emphazised, because they arent. The emphasis is on special moves and oneshots and counter attacks, and Monster Hunter wasnt about that, it was about simplicity executed to damn near perfection.
World was probably the best Monster Hunter were ever going to get. It was THE chance for the team to prove what they could do, and they still had limits in place before the big main stream market success, allowing them to operate with new tools, but staying in their comfort zone, and it already had issues handling these new options (looking at hardware issues specifically).
Honestly, Id appreciate a faithful remake of MFU2, maybe 3rd. Just to remind everyone that weapons had a clearer identity back in the day.
Good vid
We miss you...
What I find really interesting is that I agree with basically everything you said here, but don't have a problem with it.
Going with the food analogy, I absolutely get where you are coming from but it works just as well on reverse too. I can appreciate simplicity, but tend to gravitate towards and enjoy complexity more. Both in games and in food lol. What I really like about Rise in particular is that it feels like there is always something I could be *better* at. I'm a sucker for that.
Then regarding the "I use my bullshit move" "no, I use MY bullshit move!" part, there's a lot of truth to that, and I feel like it should be expected because that's honestly a pretty perfect summary of how combat has evolved throughout history, from the animal kingdom to modern warfare. There's a never ending search for something even more broken and bullshit than the last thing, and as soon as someone has it someone else is working on something even more broken. On a macro time scale that's evolution, on a micro time scale that's the Americans and Soviets spending 40 years seeing who could make the biggest, most precise, and easiest to deliver nuclear weapons.
This is 100% how I felt going from World as my first MH into Rise, while I like the 'idea' of having more options with wirebugs, silkbinds, and switch skills, it really just felt like too much. I much prefer the simpler style of base MH World's combat, where it was about knowing the monster and knowing your own abilities and limitations, rather than trying to manage cooldowns and constantly using over the top moves. I totally get that the latter may be some people's jam, and more power to them, but I'd rather stick with the straightforward combat.
No one’s holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use the silkbind moves. Don’t use them if you don’t like them, the move’s aren’t just free damage, it doe’s take knowledge of the weapon and the monster you’re facing to properly utilize them.
@@josephfrancis3250 the "Don't use X if you don't like X" stance being used as a counterpoint where "X" is a core part of the gameplay loop, is extremely disingenuous. Shame on you.
Adept style will always be peak monster hunter fun. Literally the only reason I lance lance in Rise/Sunbreak at all.
I totally agree, also I think that pickaxe, bug net and whetstone should be unlimited, but occupy slots in inventory, i loved the management we used to do back in the day, to actually prepare for a hunt, also bring back paint bombs and remove the capture icon, paying attention to the monster should be necessary, at this point the limping animation is just useless in rise...
One thing I do really really agree with the video is why do all weapons have counters, it makes certain weapons lose its uniqueness.
A lot of games have been going through similar; granted it's not within the same genre, but Josh Strife Hayes made many videos on feature creep: i.e: Stuff is added on top of original stuff that overshadows previous stuff and then taken out once the next game/iteration/version/expansion comes along and _adds new stuff on top of old stuff that overshadows previous stuff_ etc..
I personally don’t like Rise the best and I think you put into words exactly what I feel
Obviously it’s intentionally different than main series games with a completely different design philosophy, and for video game standards it’s amazing, but it’s simply not what I’m looking for in a Monster Hunter title
this man really hit us with the best take for a solid 10 minutes and 40 seconds. And then 10:40 happened 🤣
😏
And he kept spitting facts💀
You really summed up most of my issues with Rise and Sunbreak.
After World killed quest preparation, Rise killed positioning. Now monster and weapon knowledge is all about knowing what is a multi-hit and what is not, what is tracking you and what is not, and above all what is the last attack of the monster's combo that you absolutely NEED to counter for average deeps or simply to keep your damage buff alive.
Inputs are inconsistent sometimes, and hitboxes are back to old gen hitboxes. Monsters lack weight in their attacks.
That being said, the game feels great when playing multiplayer but somehow I feel awful every time I play solo.
World killed difficulty entirely. 10x speed anime battles was the only place Rise could go.
@@SeasoningTheObese Lmao what? AT monsters and lategame Iceborne are some the hardest content in the entire franchise. Only the early game was made easier and that would always be a joke for veterans anyway.
@@adamastor9869 Being able to move and heal destroyed every old monster by default. Being able to infinitely restock ended the rest of the difficulty.
@@SeasoningTheObese Notice how you didn't adress anything I said at all lol. I doubt you even played Iceborne's lategame based on this response.
The movements of monsters are now fluid and often much faster (plus you can no longer zone out to heal or sharpen). They no longer need awful hitboxes to present a challenge, plus they experimented with "dps check" type mechanics that force you to master weapon combos against lategame Elder Dragons. The flagship monster's gimmick requires consistent "superman dive" otherwise it's a one-shot. Old Rajang and Garuga are a joke compared to Iceborne versions, etc.
Nobody cares that Low Rank is easier and inventory management outside of Dos was an illusion.
@@adamastor9869 Asmongold put all this to bed. He's breezing through World without even charging his greatsword, or blocking.
that palico kinda...
Ikr
I think I have a pretty good idea of where you're coming from. There's all this new and fun stuff you can do but some days you just want to go back to the basic core gameplay but they don't quite feel viable enough in the new games. I'm more or less in the middle here. I love the core gameplay of monster hunter but I do need some ways to change things up between entries or I start to feel like I'm stagnating. And I can only switch weapons so many times if they don't add more weapons.
Really glad to see you back with UA-cam content. You've made some of my favourite Monster Hunter stuff and I'd love to see more.
For me, the excessive amount of skill and skill tiers in any armor set devalues how they feel. I wish we could go back pre-world armor sets.
I spoke about this sort of thing about 2 years ago before Rise even released. You have no idea how nice it is to hear similar thoughts about the games design from someone like you :D
I think it's the sense of "dilution", rather than the focus on the dance of hunter, weapon and monster
Hate how everything glows in this mfing game
"And also, bring back underwater combat."
Yes and please. We no longer have consoles that do not have two sticks for us to make use of combat in that capacity.
Also chill vibes as always. Always a treat.
Rise is my favourite entry in the series - and the one I want to have the LEAST influence in future installments
does this make sense?
@@blackyraypatrick9041yes.
@@blackyraypatrick9041I think they just mean it's their favourite entry, yet if the mainline loses it's identity by copying what Rise does, it would be a negative. Rise works because Rise is Rise. Monsters are faster, more aggressive, you're faster, has more options for mobility and counters, but if you took these parts and forced it in say, even an already faster paced but more classic MH game like World, it would feel out of place and lost the old identity of MH.
Completely agree. Also bring old hunting horn back
This need for a more grounded MH has been heard across from several OG members of the community for some time.
I still watch Jakob's video on Dos from tine to time, it seems to really encapsulates this feeling as well
I think Capcom might be listening, let's hope MH6 brings this move away from DPS bosses and more of a hunting game
We've already seen the logical endpoint of this kind of design in Frontier, and part of that makes sense - some Frontier designers worked on Rise and their predilections were made apparent. I wouldn't be opposed to the Portable team just fully committing to this vision of the series as long as the main titles pull it back in.
I can see this happening, ever since Generations(or arguably Portable 3rd) the Portable team have begun differing themselves from the Main team by getting more experimental with bombastic game mechanics. If the Portable team's next game introduces another feature that ups the gameplay tempo like Arts/Styles and now Wirebug does, then it'll be clear what direction they want to go in.
Really hoping they keep switch skills but also very much believe they need to add new weapons. It's almost been an entire decade since new weapons were added to the main series. Playing Wild Hearts, faults aside, really made me realize just how badly I've been wanting a new weapon in the franchise.
Or Bring back forgotten Ones.
I think we need a full bow gun rework, probably the tri system of custom bow gun pieces because the current system has hbg many times feeling just worse and not unique. I think it needs a regular roll again like pre world or even look towards making it a hop weapon like Lance and GL because this fat roll just doesn't feel good and playing games like frontier or gu and being able to roll without the end lag causing you to get punished for rolling one attack just feels much better. Also the special ammo having more options that are also viable since right now they take forever to load, and don't do enough in terms of damage or utility to be worth it. I really would love a siege system back especially since the idea of not being able to move in modern games is a balance tactic in itself already. With the clunky mechanics and all, there was something special about old worlds gunning.
A fast attacking blunt weapon pls
@@Argnos2293 Search "Monster Hunter Tonfa" A Sweet Memory of Mine.
@@Argnos2293 S & S tree has few "swords" that are outright clubs.. I know its not exactly what you're asking for but you can go fast clubbing with them.. kinda..
A big part of old school monster Hunter for me is about hitting a wall and trying to get past it. It’s why I’ve been enjoying frontier so much. New world mh is more about feeling powerful talking these large monsters down and running circles around them effortlessly. Prior you needed a lot of knowledge on the monster to do that type of thing.(-flash bomb cheeses)
Modern monster Hunter is all stacked in the hunters favour now. Why is all endemic life beneficial to us we haven’t lived and evolved in these lands the monsters have.
It should be a David vs Goliath type game and it still can be but we can’t deny how the majority of mh now is verry accessible. And if you think that it’s just easy cos good mh2dos kicked my ass my first time through last year. That game really changed my perspective and made me quite sad for what the franchise has developed into.
The old games were simple but all about pre-emptive positioning that added a lot of depth due to long recovery frames and generally high commitment attacks. The atmosphere and consistent art style have all changed and i guess I just miss it.
This is exactly what I've been saying to my friends. Been playing through the older games and there was something great about how simple everything was
I love how fluid rise is but enjoy how simple mhgu combat is if that makes sense. Simple, repetitive, fluid, fun is all I want.
100% with you on that one, Sunbreak is great at what it tries to do, but I miss the simplicity of older titles.
welcome back, can't wait for more videos coming from you, always very fun to watch!
I love the complexity of this one, thats why I love charge blade too
Glad someone else appreciates underwater combat. Maybe it's because Tri was my first MH game, but I loved diving in and finding the beasts below the waves. Lagiacrus feels a lot more intimidating when you're on its home field.
I agree wholeheartedly. I've played each MH title from Tri onward and enjoyed them all immensely.
Each system added to a new game brings mechanics that I hope stay and some I hope never resurface in future games. Capcom has generally done a great job of discarding what wasn't working in previous games so I'm confident that they'll continue to do so.
However, as you mentioned, the hunter and monsters "power creeping" each other is a big concern going forward. If Capcom do it perfectly, it could be brilliant: each monster attack forcing you decide on one of a dozen viable options to deal with it...
If not, I can see MH becoming a series where each monster attack forces you to immediately execute the only correct option out of thirty.
This was so on point
I really miss the feeling of playing Monster Hunter when I didn't have so easy access to internet in the psp and Wii
Everything was so amazing and going to hunt felt like going to the wild out of the safe zone of the village
It was scary what monster could be also in the map
It really felt like hunting in a world where I didn't was the protagonist, the monsters where the protagonist and I loved that
Yeah that's a feeling I miss a lot, being a fuckass no-one going in a open field and you didn't know if you'd get clapped
One small and totally unrelated thing I found to be a detrimental change was the way hubs have been phased out in favor of quick join either through join requests in Rise or the SOS flare in World. To me, the idea of hunters all dropping their weapons at the door to chow down and decompress together after a hunt is core to the franchise’s identity. The online experience feels lonely and impersonal now.
based, the previous hubs were a better matchmaking experience as a whole
So glad you made this vid. I agree 100% with everything. I just want old simple mon hun made on modern platforms.
I miss Herny :(
Finally, someone who has done this argument right. Most people simplify this way too much, are too aggressive, or are just outright nonsensical with this discussion. While I definitely prefer the gameplay of Sunbreak to any other game, I very much understand your points and I definitely wouldn't mind toning it back a bit. I don't want the gameplay to be as simple and slow paced as old games because I personally need more stimulation than that, but maybe somewhere in the middle. Maybe like world but a tad faster paced is ideal to me. While the whole counter situation is not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be imo, I certainly would like counters toned down somewhat. I still think every weapon has a ton of identity, if not more than ever before, but there are some moves that are what I'd consider to be outliers. I don't think switch axe, great sword, dual blades, gunlance (although people use reverse blast over it anyways,) or insect glaive needs a counter, and maybe not even hammer (although I don't mind the existence of water strike.) I'm fine with Lance, SnS (very versatile weapon, makes sense,) CB, and LS having counters. Rise is definitely experimental, but I think it's an important experiment to try out a lot of stuff.
I'm glad Impact Crater is no longer useful though (Impact Burst is much better) because man, base rise hammer playstyle of Impact Crater spam was kinda cringe.
It's def true that each subsequent title has increased the complexity of combat, and so it moves further away from that og MH. But i dont think that's a bad thing, the alternative is they don't change and we get the same oldgen MH formula just with more monsters and gear. I would rather it get crazier before it gets too dull
Agreed
Have you seen Dark Souls and Elden Ring?
Elden Ring is game of the year while staying faithful to Dark Souls.
Why can't Monster Hunter?
When the world needed him most… He vanished
The wirebug geniuenly made me resent playing the new game. I already disliked the clutch claw in World, though there it felt more optional as it was only a small increase in efficiency, now the wirebug feels like something you have to do or youll lack behind a lot.
I dont think Im gonna buy and play the next MH game if they keep something like the wirebug
Clutch Claw is not optional at all, stop lying to make Rise look worse.
I've recently played and finished MH freedom and have just finished Unite the night I'm writing this, but something I really dont want monster hunter to lose is its personality. I'm not saying limited use pickaxes/bugnets and whetstones should come back, that stuff can stay gone, but Rise is so fast paced and although its fun for sure its just not what really appeals to me about Monster Hunter. World did a great job of feeling like an immersive and interactive environment while maintaining a vibe comparable to earlier MH gens and I hope they build upon that
I think the issue is the teams over at Capcom aren't considering Power Creep as much as they used to before the popularity of World. Ever since World exploded you can see they just add in tons of power creep to keep people interested in the franchise. We can see that with Icebourne and then Rise. Hopefully they don't continue pushing the boundaries as hard as they have. It makes the game more of an unga bunga shit showfest instead of a serious dance with the monsters you are fighting.
As someone who has grown up with monster hunter since I was 10 my first game was Gen on the 3ds and I have now played every single game (4U is my favorite with many months of gameplay on it and sunbreak being my 2nd Favorite). I always loved the new gimmicks brought in the games except for the clutch claw. The wire bugs I like and hope to have some sort of form of them in the future is because of how they opened up the maps so much. There is so much more to jump around and explore instead of the climb up this rope/vine and get to this area faster via this rope/vine. I feel like they make the game a lot more streamlined and fun to move around and explore. I never tried to find secret areas in older games cause it was slow and boring while in sunbreak I feel like I know every part of the map so well. I agree that they can be very in your face with the skills and stuff but I hope maybe they tone it down and make a simpler version of them.
I absolutely agree. This is why when all is said in done, despite every entry in the series making new stuff, 4 Ultimate is still peak Monster Hunter to me. It has all the weapons we need, the verticality we need yet the gameplay very much feels like classic Monster Hunter.
Still has the hardest G-Rank and the best story.
It had the perfect amount of classic and modern, the best Grank/endgame, the best roster, all weapons, tons of fun events...
@@Walamonga1313 It had everything we wanted and it made hunting Plesioth very fun.
@@ProfessionalNamielleLewder69 there's no plesioth in 4u tho, unless you meant oneshoting him with the fishing net
@@atlasthechamp82 Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. The Sunsnug Isle minigame where you one-shot Plesioth.
It's interesting because that's exactly what I thought when I go back to Iceborne after beating Rise, before sunbreak drops ofc. I was thinking man why so much glitter on screen and why does the map has so many stuff when I only need a flat surface and my cat. I think Rise is in some capacity a return to simplicity, an emphasis on combat instead of being all around flashy like world. And oh boy did they turn the combat to 11 in sunbreak.
WIrebug solved some long-persisting problems like monster kills you when you stands up--it just feels unfair and wirefall solved it somewhat elegantly. It can get you out of hairy situations without being a get-out-of-jail-free card. I hope they keep a similar kind of mechanic but who knows.
I would like to compare MH to fighting game, you are not playing the same game, you are playing 14 different mini-games and depending on your weapon the score varies wildly: one of the best feeling weapons is the LS, I think they nailed the weapon this game--you have to be very fluid and use every skill depending your current situation and resources. Bow can hardly feel the wirebug system but got a lot from the new overpowered armor sets while dualblade just become a drill machine.
I think they nailed some weapons and missed the marks on others, as per usual. I hope they keep what worked and I don't mind if they make weapons more different so some players can enjoy simple hunts and others can play their piano.
I really don't want to sound like a downer but I can't take you seriously if you truly believe Rise in any capacity is a return to simplicity
UA-cam decided not to show me this until now, but I agree with you completely Herny. Every time I play Rise or World I feel like there's no stakes to anything and I get bored really quickly, but I started replaying Tri on Dolphin a little while back and I was so in the moment for all the hunts and exploration. My character was so limited in what they can do, and the atmosphere is, in my opinion, much stronger when the monsters are stronger than you are. Why am I gonna be scared of a monster when I can put on my everything-proof mantle or launch myself halfway across the map immediately?
As you say, the moves the monsters use have gotten much more annoying to compensate for the insane increase in power for the hunter, and I personally really don't enjoy playing against the dumb moves monsters have now - in Iceborne when I saw them letting Zinogre and Rajang bounce out of staggers I knew it had gone too far. They break basic rules of MH in kind of unprepared ways and it doesn't sit right with me. Gypceros playing dead was cool because it was part of his character as a monster and he would have sucked even harder without it. Rajang and Zinogre randomly deciding to not be staggered that time just felt arbitrary. This is a very specific example, but across the cast the moves got sillier and I just don't want it to always be that way.
If we don't get a more stripped back MH soon I think I'm gonna be done with the series, and that's really sad to say when I've been so into the series since discovering it in 2010. I just don't want it to be anime simulator.