What if they had two separate versions of the hunting horn similarly to how charge blade has both impact phials and elementals? A string of text saying “moderato” to symbolize the horn is old style and another saying “allegro” to make it play without recitals, but with considerably less damage output than the slow counterpart
You would need pretyy drastic differencies to make that work. This could probably be better addressed with two different variants of the weapon, kinda like what we have with heavy and light bowgun.
Basically "I'm okay with the new hunting horn as long as the old one is preserver as well," I'm down with that. The new hunting horn is fun for a while, but its basically lesser hammer and it doesn't really feel like you're playing support, because you're not, its just a by product of playing a big club.
I can accept without any effort the existence of a more simple/aggro oriented HH as long my version exists. I dont care about power level; just let me make meaty angular hits and reposition myself (battledance)... Ah, and make recitals/encores ♥️
The new hunting horn is a completely new weapon... almost. Honestly I'd love it much more if they took this "dancing weapon" concept and made it its own new weapon, and brought the old HH back. Having both would be great because I do enjoy the new HH, but it shouldnt have come at the cost of losing the one we know and love.
@@Phoenix8764 that exact thought is what I'm imagining lol Pair of maces (or a 2 ended mace) that are just fuckin maracas or other percussive instruments.
@Jazzy Ginger Tonfas but they are wind instruments, it's a risker dual blades (because you have to play music by punching the monster to get basic buffs) with impact and ko along with weaker but more spammable short range music buffs. Each attack plays a distinct note and they transition into each other and make one of them have a parry property(l2/lt). And that move if held charges a ground slam that when released knocks back the monster and launches the Windtonfa (Windfonfa? Windflute? Idk.) user into the air. The skill switch abilities would probably revolve around the air. Then we can keep the hunting horn slowerbuffs. Calculating and methodical Good positioning, big damage, big buff.
I would LOVE if we kept both. Have one be a horn, and one be like.... A drum maybe? In any case, let HH have the big big buffs, and the fast horn do more DPS, but have significantly weaker buffs as well. That way, we get diversity in musical weapons, and don't have to really make any cuts or decisions. I personally love rises HH far more than OG, but as someone else said, as a hammer main, I hate that we lost an entire weapons identity to make that happen.
This is the same argument my wife gave me when they changed hunting horn from freedom 2 to what it became in 3U. Back then, you had to switch to concert stance to play music. You couldn't walk or run in the concert stance, but you could use directional attacks to evade while playing your notes to activate a buff with your recital at the end. I couldn't make sense of it, but she said it was like a beautiful, intricate, tactical dance you had to master to stay alive, play, and fight all at once. When they got rid of recital stance and integrated it and all if its moves into the normal stance, allowing you to gather notes while fighting, then stopping only to buff, i thought it made it much easier and reasonable to play with. She, on the otherhand, said they gutted the weapon, made it nothing more than a fancy hammer, and she quit. Hunting Horn hasn't been right since 2, she says.
I have all but forgotten about this! It was the reason I picked up the HH in the first place. Being slow was never a problem for me, I was playing GS since the first MH. I thought it was such a cool concept when the, "preform to live" concept clicked. Looking back current HH is kinda... watered down and we will more than likely never have that style again.
I remember this and it was so painful to try and play songs in those games. It could have up to 4 notes with individual notes taking up to 2 seconds to play + the time to do the moves to switch to that note, and you might need to play the song twice, meaning that songs could take a good 20 seconds to play with all their animations. I wanted to love the weapon, but unless you were in 4 player co-op it was near impossible to actually *play* in a fight.
Hunting Horn in Freedom Unite felt like one of the Charge Blade stereotype people talk about, you REALLY have to read to learn how to use the weapon because the note buffs aren't accessible in the start menu, you have to read and memorize it from the Hunter's Compendium by the bed. I am very happy that P3rd improved upon this by adding the note combinations on the start menu. And made Hunting Horn a bit easier to get into by removing the recital mode. I had no idea how to use the recital mode when I tried it because I was so used to P3rd's Hunting Horn lmao.
Concert stance was done away with because monsters moved faster so it wasn't a wise option to keep it as is. The same reason why they changed it in Rise. But as the video says, it doesn't fit the weapon
It’s a double shame because I felt like Iceborne’s rendition was the best one yet. I liked the play style enough before, I just got bored with not having many unique attack options aside from the admittedly fun 180 degree backswing tech. Iceborne added the spin, which was pretty much all I ever wanted and then some. I played a lot of HH in Iceborne. I feel like instead of dropping recitals, they could’ve just made them faster or something.
yeahhh, if they literally just ported the Adept or Valor recitals onto Iceborne's moveset (even with the I-Frames), then it would've been perfect. oh well, here's to hoping that MH6's team gives Horn its return to form.
I personally would've found it cool if they gave us even more melodies to play with with more than just status effects but also offensive uses for people that wanna play alone. Instead of making it a pseudo hammer, they could given us melodies that launch a wave of the current status effect, or leave it as an area of effect, or a counter roar which would would need you to get the melody three times to cast, but would let you stun the monster so you can attack it more easily. An "Attention distortion" melody which would cause the monster to stop focusing on whichever player it currently was and switch targets. An anti-air melody which would take some time to cast, but would act as a free flashbug to knock down flying wyverns. A "destructive vibrato" melody, which would give you a damage boost the next attack that lands on a monster, which stacks every time you cast it. A "song rider" melody which would let you use a completely different playing animation, where you'd ride the horn as music carries you long distances at high speed, letting you cover long distances like you could with the Lance. Anything that would make the HH any more useful than some potions and other craftables.
I absolutely loved it both in world and mhgu and used it as my main weapon in both games. Rise butchered the weapon into something so diffrent i dont even consider it the same weapon anymore.
I left this comment on another video discussing HH changes and I thought I'd post it here as it touches so many of the same points you hit. It just shows that old HH players share the same sentiment. "I play and love the HH in World and in GU. When I saw Rise HH showcase I was super excited by the idea of Iceborne's song queuing mechanic and spins being coupled with the stylish animations of Valor style recitals from GU. Then the demo came and I found a husk of a weapon. Playing HH in Rise is so mindless that I can't enjoy the weapon at all. It seems great lengths were taken to make new attack animations so that attacks flow from one to another beautifully, but none of that matters. All you see is a loop of A then ZR repeated constantly after attack buffs have been played. And those attack buffs are as simple as press the same button twice. Old HH was about finding unique combo paths to maintain the songs specific to your horn. Iceborne was amazing as it allowed you to queue and play multiple songs at once and required skill/knowledge about how many songs you could safely play at any given time. GU had the double note system which rewarded players who actively fought a monster while queuing a song. The soul of HH was the recital. Lining up your notes and then smashing your song across a monster's face is HH. Playing one note in an animation that last less than a second is nothing more than making a noise. That's not music. In Rise, HH really is just a reject hammer and I dispise it."
I'm a weird case of going from rise to world instead of the other way around. I played a bit of hh rise and enjoyed it but after hearing you talk about it on stream I decided to main it in world. It feels totally different. In world every fight makes me think about what songs I need and the most efficient way to ready them up. It's a very active weapon especially compared to rise where I feel like I don't need to think at all (the lower chance of dying in rise makes it even worse).
Same here. Picked up HH in Rise and went to World and continued to main it. There's something about being able to actively build and do songs over the period of the fight that World does so well. In terms of hh over all the games I've played, HH definitely peaked in World and it's a shame it was reduced to what it was in Rise. The only other hh that comes close to World's is valor hh in genu. I hope MH6 continues to build upon what World had, instead of what Rise created
@@thegreatlagi9974 I feel the same way but about charge blade it feels like CB was perfected in iceborne then rise came along and took away or straight up ruined things I loved about it. Since it seems things will stay the same in sunbreak all I can hope for now is just that the next main line games don't adopt rises weapons but world's and iceborne's. I never want the wirebugs and silkbind skills in another monhun game EVER they're basically the source of every problem in rise.
I honestly haven't played HH ever since FU and I practiced it hard in IB before Rise was ported to pc so I can use it effectively there but alas, all my effort was thrown in the bin with how they butchered HH in Rise.
I used to love the POWER of the songs how you could deal a huge amount of KO after building up a song and then do it again, it was so cool the burst of music power, how you could choose which kind of recital to go with depending on the situation. It had such power. Such gravity.
Take 1: “Imagine the longsword with… even more… stuff.” Take 2: “Imagine the longsword being able to counter off of every attack as opposed to ALMOST every attack.” Take 3: “Imagine the longsword not tripping anyone with any attack anymore.” Take 4: “Imagine the longsword kept its red spirit guage perpetually.” Take 5: “Imagine the longsword EXISTING.”
Idk why but in my case my enemy is db, I'm using lance and I can't hit monster at all getting hit by db user all the time maybe because db attack to fast.😅
I really don't think it was to make HH more popular as much as classic HH would have been the most hurt by Rise's sped up combat. By the time you finished a World performance in Rise, the monster probably would have already charged up some anime super move and carted you. Maybe they could have met in the middle somewhere, like just simplifying the notes needed for songs but regardless they made their decision and it will be up to Capcom to decide which to bring back for MH6. Since MH6 is more likely to be like World with less... coked up anime style combat, my bet would be on World-style.
I'm in the same boat as you with this i miss old HH but i guess i'm holding out hope that rise's version of Hunting horn is only around for rise and sunbreak, rather than the new normal going forward.
hard to say, whether or not it stays will probably be based on the user metrics more than anything else, HH had a massive overhaul from 2nd to 3rd gen and we never went backwards then either.
I hope not... i bet theres more hh players than ever since its actually easier to use, while the old hh player were not happy about the changes they were replaced by new players.
Hunting horn got such a massive buff in world it basically solved all it's problems with the queue system and the echo attacks, not only did it have the best utility but it also now had damage and less downtime to back it up, unfortunately it seems the "support weapon" stigma was too deep rooted in the community so most people ended up ignoring it. I'm always switching mains between games and it seems in Rise it'll be no different, maybe I'll try the swaxe.
Looking at speedruns/challenge runs, Hunting Horn usually still scored somewhere near the bottom. It wasn't until it got a flashy new move in Iceborne that it actually became a viable solo weapon (and it was heavily nerfed after the demo which had 1 of the new moves being completely OP). Anyhow, I think this video is just a bunch of dumb complaints. They buffed nearly every weapon up into the heavens. If this HH was pretty much the same as in World/IB I can assure you this video creator would've likely made some dumbass video complaining about how they have not adressed issues and should've gotten way more moves variety and buffs. You can never please them.
@@bipsahoy8064 Except I did play the weapon in World (along with every other weapon other than the bow and charge blade). Almost all weapons got huge buffs and changes in playstyles in Rise. Most weapons play almost nothing they like used to pre-World.
While I like using Rise HH, I can definitely agree with the character and charm being removed from the weapon. I had a similar revelation when I was playing Freedom Unite and was thrust back into the paintball system to track monsters. I've loved the idea of hunting horn since 3U but never went deep on it because I felt like I had to have a party of friends to support me while I deal less overall damage. But maybe I'm just being a dork about it and should give it more of a real chance :) Great vid, btw! Very informative and well written!
every mh game ive played i solo hh, and while definitely doable it might limit you from time to time.... but it just makes you that much better of a hunter!! B)
Please do not torture yourself by soloing with HH. It is a group support weapon for a reason, and is tuned as such. If you want to solo HH, just play Hammer.
@@RaethFennec i argue that each of the hhs moves (before rise) each provide their own utility, and managing song uptimes while positioning requires a great amount of focus and skill that is soooooo rewarding for me. thats just how i see it though
@@vactyl__ I think the key to that is that it could still achieve that in Rise even in its current form by simply having more songs back and maybe some answer to monster attacks other than wirebug repositioning.
I really like the Self Improvement move in Rise. I played a decent amount of HH in Gen, GenU, World, and Iceborne. As a secondary weapon I'm enjoying it much more. Sad to hear that it's lost it's identity as a main weapon.
Hadn't touched HH in Rise until this last week and this video explains exactly how I feel. Something just felt off while playing it and I quickly dropped it, now I'm back to my dual blades. I miss the heft of those weighted swings from old HH.
My first MH game was World, due to market accessibility, and I fell in love with the idea of the horn after starting out as a hammerbro. The setting that MH:W carried reinforced my love for the horn further (brand new environment, hunters being more akin to researchers, with effort to understand species, behaviour, and ecosystem and not just hunt/capture monsters) since, in my perspective, it was the epitome of "know the monster and it's behaviour, and know yourself and your limitations". While it was difficult at first, the feeling of achievement after successful hunts was just much better. Knowing that I needed particular buffs to sustain the hunt, and balancing that with the knowledge of the monsters behaviour... When i found out 'Perform > Crush' was the Horn's bread n butter in Rise, I was perplexed from my experience in MHW, because the horn can't afford that consistency. The horn, IMO, rewarded the knowledge of your song list and how flexible the user could be when switching to play out one song for another
I loved how the HH felt in world and old gen monster hunter games. I'm not a HH main but I do love how slow and tactical you have to be to be successful with the horn (coming from a SnS main). I don't really like how speed up everything is in rise especially with how they changed hunting horn. Rise is still pretty fun though lol.
As a veteran ride or die HH main I felt exactly the same with the Rise changes, so much so, while I played only HH on the switch version, now I changed to hammer in the PC Rise port. I still love my HH, I long for the day to see it's true song again, I really hope they go back to the old horn in the next main series title.
I was never a Hunting Horn main, but HH is easily my 'second love' next to Charge Blade. I genuinely adore taking this weapon out in World/Iceborne, GU, 4U, and 3U - basically every MH game I've played except for Rise. I still play it in Rise, but it doesn't feel purposeful. I like weapons to feel methodical, and to me the Hunting Horn was one of those weapons where I have to make a split-second decision about which particular swing I want at any given time to doot the head of the monster I'm fighting. I agree with all of your points about the lack of weight, recitals/encores being diminished and basically not existing, but ultimately it's the combo-heavy nature of the weapon that really made me fall out of love with this version of it. I want every attack to be deliberate and meaningful, both in terms of the notes I build up on my staff and how best to reach the face - and in Rise, I just don't get that anymore. I desperately want HH to be brought back to an older version of itself in MH6 because I really want to keep this beautiful weapon in my back pocket for hunts but in Rise it's just not something I really want to play all that often.
Great work on the new video friend! Couldn't agree more with the points you made. I wasn't a HH enthusiast until I joined your community, and I saw its beauty in Iceborne. Unfortunately Rise didn't carry over and provide the same beauty that I had fallen in love with. Honestly kinda motivated to make a "Why I hate Rise Switch Axe" after watching this lol.
Handi, I would like to ask you to reconsider Rise HH and give it another chance. I, and many others in the HH community, initially were apprehensive with the changes. Like you, we thought the nature of playing HH has devolved into a spammy playstyle, but after some deliberation and optimization, we know this now to not be true. While I fully agree that the recital tunes are sorely missed, overall I think the change in recital mechanics is for the better. Encores were cool but practicality-wise, they were never really very useful back in Iceborne other than for renewing buffs or only for Echo Wave bombs. The performance and echo recitals in Rise are significantly better moves with better uses. I do not agree that the hunting horn is no longer methodical and has devolved into a spammy DPS weapon. In my opinion (and I am sure several others agree as well) Capcom made changes to the HH in a way that you can play it as a spammy DPS weapon if you want, but at the end of the day, OPTIMAL PLAY is still achieved by playing the slow, methodical way as it was played before; only now you have significantly better moves such as the Self-Improvement Recital and the Crusher to help you. Spammy HH play only works in Low Rank because monsters flinch and stagger very often. Once they reached High Rank, spammy players would notice that their playstyle no longer works as well as it did in Low Rank. In my opinion, this could actually be the real reason why we've seen a drop in the weapon usage over time. As Amadeus points out in his Advanced HH Guide, spammy HH play and the Magnificent Trio are actually beginner traps. The core gameplay of HH is still the same; play methodical and slow until you score a knockdown then hammer away when the monster is knocked down. The spammy nature of stringed combos comes in handy for dealing significant damage to DOWNED MONSTERS. This gives HH a fighting chance in the DPS race which was sorely lacked in previous games' iterations. If I had anything to complain about HH, its that it may have the worst switch skills out of all the weapons. Echo Mode is great in some situations but Bead of Resonance and Melodic Slap are outright horrible and should never be considered. And my biggest gripe of all is actually the Earthshaker silkdbind move. Earthshaker is your greatest Gauge Filler but it has such a long recovery time and by its very nature (super armor and flinch resistance) it encourages aggressive and reckless play which goes counter to the slow, methodical playstyle that we like.
Agreed. HH has always been my main weapon in the games and you used to see massive drop offs of players using it in high/G rank especially when they realise you can't just go ham on monsters with it. I'm fine with auto recitals, part of the problem late game was getting knocked out of long animations with screw all i-frames leading to alot of 'Corner - Horners' in GU and in World/IB. Honestly all it would take would be to add some variation or longer note button combos in G - rank and/or maybe have them only activate on contact with the monster to incentivise more agressive play, make it more risk reward as really that's all that seems to be missing. Whether they do this or not... who knows? Be nice if they do. It would just be nice to not be the only HH player in a hub in G rank and have other players think you're nothing but a support weapon. Sure, you can be but the buffs are more for the HH player... everyone else if they're close enough gets the afterglow affect of your awesomeness as if you're not in range, you ain't getting no buff buster. The moment you go into a fight thinking you do nothing but mindless button bashing, you're going to find yourself downing potions like they're going out of style. That's not an optimal way to play...
Idk man, i've played through hh in both iceborne and rise up till endgame, and I ended up dropping hh in rise once i beat the game for greatsword since I just wasn't enjoying it at all. I agree that button mashing is a beginner trap, but the weapon has gone from having a complex and strategic playstyle where every tool in your moveset can be used, to a weapon where you repeatedly spam the same attacks over and over.
I think that if the HH is to be more focused on dps, it should do the biggest damage with the recital. Those big slaps and shockwaves before you perform. In world I just love it when I end up staggering a monster while providing support. And I assume that’s what mhw devs did to try make HH more appealing.
Absolutely agree. Hunting Horn for me is one of the weapons that really encouraged deliberate play, like you said. You plan out what song you wanted to play even before approaching, but also need to understand the monster you're fighting to make sure the hits land as well. You sneak in notes with the double swing and the handle poke, so that you could make the recital hit the monster in the time that you have left. Rise HH felt like you just attack attack attack. Anyway, great video! :)
I'm gonna be honest and ask for some fan's opinions, I'm not trying to draw ire, I want to understand. So I'll put it up here to TLDR: Why was the original so "good?" My experience with it was a super-slow weapon that exposed yourself to all kinds of attacks with buffs that "helped" but could be outdone by adding another layer of Hunter to your fight (I didn't SEE the HH-Hunter as an actual combatant, using HH basically negates your team a member), and the things didn't only deal less damage than a lot of other tools but their songs were so drawn out and lackluster. You act like a monster isn't going to annihilate you the moment you play 2 doots off that thing let alone 24 doots in sequence. I know, a proper HHH is gonna tell me "You've got it ALL wrong!" and maybe have no idea what I'm talking about, or, maybe they will, so that's why I'm saying "Why use this item? In my hands, it's slow, inaccurate, deals subpar damage, makes you vulnerable, and its main mechanic isn't as useful as the number of negatives on this list." Rise made me love the hunting horn because now I can be a support, feel useful, and still have to think about what attacks I'm actually doing. I can't spam one attack, I want to play the entire song. I have the Wirebugs where I can enhance my damage, place a grenade charge waiting for the right time for an explosion of stun and exhaust... My songs come out so fast, they're useful to the team, and the damage/stun power of the tool is nimble enough to not be at risk of death and powerful enough that I **FEEL like a member of the team** and not just some guy in the background trying not to get harassed for playing music during a fight. The meter to the ultimate-buff is useful to make your whole team a BETTER team, and it gives a reason to WANT to hit the monster. Rise made me forget that I hated the Hunting Horn. What happened? Why do I see the previous hunting horns as extremely unpleasant weapons versus useful support tools that are essentially "A Hammer that has grace and purpose" (no shame Hammer Hunters, the simplicity of Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk can't be topped, and some days you just wanna hit a monster like they're a nail that just won't drive into the wood.)
as a HH main in WorldBorne with over a thousand HH hunts and have solo'd all monsters at this point but have only a few hunts using HH so far in RiseBreak, this is my opinion. Although, be aware that it might change after a while. TL;DR: I really don't like the new Rise's HH movesets because it's so aggressive, fast and has so much more complex moves with simple songs while WorldBorne HH moves are extremely simple, slow and deliberate (even when compared to Hammer and some GS moves) with complex songs. EAch WorldBorne's HH inputs just feels significantly more meaningful than Rise's. A big part of why I love it is because it is simple, slow and deliberate. Despite the simple movesets, the play style is complex. You really gotta know your attacks, notes, timing, positioning, facing angle and that of the monster's too, if you want to play effectively. Each inputs can be a massive screw up or a massive contribution. To elaborate further: + Standing in the right place but facing the wrong direction often means you'll hit the wrong part or not hit at all. Sometimes you have to face it 90 degrees to the right or left for the best chance to hit it. *This is something you have to be aware of*. + Beginning an attack at the wrong time or using a too lengthy attack during a short opening means you'll open yourself to getting hit. But missing an opening that you could've attack in means you'll massively lose DPS. You have to be precise in your timing and opening abusing. *This is something you have to be aware of*. + Not knowing what attack to use so that you can combo with the previous attacks to make up a song means you won't be able to play a song that either you or the team might need. This means your songs will have big down times. You have to have the ability to use all of the previous points simultaneously. *This is something you have to be aware of*. Pretty much all the things I listed above really requires simple, slow and deliberate moves so that you can learn and get used to the weapon. Despite how simple it looks, the skill floor is really high. You can't just jump in, do 6 hits because you hit a button 2 times while looking at the monster, ignoring angle, ignoring notes, focusing on only damage, get out unscathed and get a song up in Iceborne. For Iceborne's HH, you have to ask yourself if you're standing at the right place, right angle, input the right button for the right attack and/or right note and get, at most, 2 hits in before you have to get out because each attack hits only *once or twice* (Echo attack is the only exception worth mentioning because multi-hit attacks like performance/encore are just bad, in general). I haven't even mentioned directional attacks that helps queue songs faster. Each inputs needs consideration on whether you need to play a song or do damage and you can only have both when you've learnt the monster attacks, follow up attacks, the weapon's attacks and have a proper strategy. Each button press is meaningful. It really forces you to know the monster and your weapon to squeeze in any attacks you can get while queueing the songs so that you can maintain optimal damage and optimal buff time. I only wish that WorldBorne's HH has higher damage per hit to compensate for the lack of DPS. The lack of those is the main reason why I hate Rise's horn, so far. This is a completely different weapon that they easily could've made into a 15th weapon. The songs are so simplified for Rise's HH and each inputs just feels so much less meaningful compared to Iceborne. The thing I got used to for hundreds of hours got overhauled into something else altogether and I have no way to play the weapon that I loved. I'm not against people that enjoys it and I don't want it removed, I just really want my old HH.
@@CuongNguyen-sw1eb I absolutely respect your opinion and do love to watch WorldBorne HH gameplay. But tbh, all of those reasons is why I vastly prefer the RiseBreak HH. To me,and this is something I didn't see touched on much if at all in the vid, is ACCESSIBILITY. In World, HH felt slower and twice as committal as GS with pitiful damage output. You needed to have near pinpoint accuracy or you do absolutely nothing. And still have extremely subpar damage output. On top of that, the whole gimmick of playing songs has you jamming out for nearly 3 whole seconds with no way of getting out of it. You'd get coocked in that time. Rise imo fixed all of those issues. Is it a bit more unga bunga? Sure. But it definitely feels satisfying and damn sure has plenty of varying combos to pull off especially adding in SB's new switch skills and different horns having some different effects and sometimes entirely different moves on them. I understand the old one had a different flavor, but I just don't feel like I should have to know advanced calculus just to play the game, ya know? But we can rejoice here. Wilds' HH looks like they're giving us a nice middle ground between World & Rise.
As someone who has played HH since 3U, I just disagree. I can understand you want a slower more methodical weapon, and that’s fine. But saying the soul of the weapon isn’t there anymore is just ridiculous. The weapon is still all about music, and still hits just as hard. In rise they gave it much more soul by letting hunting horn feel more fluid and less of a buff first attack second weapon. I like the fast paced gameplay and it reflects rise/sun break’s gameplay as well. IMO it always felt like HH needed something more and rise gave it that. On the topic of music, it’s still definitely there. You just don’t have to spend ages to listen to it. The symphonies are faster to make it so that you can go to do what the game is all about, hunting the monster. I’ve played world HH and 3U and 4U and Gen/GenU and rise/Sunbreak HH and while they’re all somewhat different or barely depending on what your definition may be, I think each iteration of the weapon improves it. I’ve heard for the longest time that HH might as well just be a musical hammer and the only reason to use it is for the buffs which sucked to hear since I love the weapon. Now in rise it feels like less of a cousin and more like a different family which I love. It gave itself distinction from hammer in a new way and also made it so that the music you play feels like you’re not just swinging around a rock on a stick. I love that. I understand it’s personal opinion and that’s fine but your bias clouds your vision.
9:35 I love this comment because it's why I loved using magnet spike in frontier. I'm a HH main as well and this video makes me so happy to not feel alone in my opinion, literally I agree with all your points. I've gotten to a point where because my favorite weapon isn't at all the same I barely have played monster hunter over the last 9 months and have only recently started trying to come back after playing some 3U again. Thank you for making this video and spreading the word (even though I'm a year late to it)
The comments all kind of reflect the same thing, honestly. "Hunting Horn is more accessible, and I don't like that cause it means it's no longer the cool special thing to play."
Safi hunting horn with attack melody 3 pretty much sums up exactly why hunting horn is amazing. Got Attack boost, Defense Boost and Max Stamina+Recovery bubble. Situational song for wind pressure negate. Your "dps" rotation wasn't just "do perfect rush" or charge shield and axe then do lots of ups and downs or spam SEAD. All 7 of the basic attacks are reliant on position and timing along with trying to achieve a specific combo to upkeep songs. Culminate this into recitals and echo waves. Fantastic. Hunting Horn in Iceborne was amazing but it did need 2 things. A) Some capacity to change out song list on any HH, similar to Safi weapons or used the silkbind method. Slot A, B, C. Select between 2 different songs in each slot. B) Better motion values to reflect the weight of the weapon swings. This would also end up giving the weapon a nice damage boost. The self buff lasts about seven and half minutes while the team buffs last about four minutes. Also don't need to stack all the songs and play a full 3 songs plus encore. That is very unreasonable. No monster is going to let you doot in place for 5 seconds unless they are downed. The biggest misconception is that you will be purely in maintenance mode trying to constantly do full 3 song recitals into encore. This will never happen unless your a corner horner. The biggest hits you can do are super pound and actually recital. You want to just play recital for that 1 song and then roll out. This works because you don't need to do encore for the higher buff. Just play the same song twice. Encore still has an amazing purpose. Since your songs lost 4 minutes, what exactly do you focus on in between? Spin to win! Get them echo wave songs stacked up, KO a monster and then unless a very satisfying triple echo wave recital into encore for big damage. Compare this to Rise version. Regular routine: Magnificent Trio to apply every buff instantly then RT+X to fill meter. Magnificent Trio to be able to use full meter attack into silk bind attack. Monster KO: Magnificent Trio to be able to use full meter attack, RT+X two or three times until the monster starts to get up. Use silk bind skill. The weapon was too streamlined. The head sniping, position based gameplay was mostly toned down. Songs? It just happens. More akin to drinking demon drug at the start of a mission. Not a weapon mechanic any more. You have to use the Magnificent Trio to do the follow up Infernal Melody or what ever it's called for the full meter attack, so whether you like it or not... got all the song buffs. Pretty much a button mash weapon with a meter to fill up for a special attack. This is not really an instrument that strings notes together to play a song. No recitals, no encores, no true reliance reliance on positioning or timing, and no buff managment. Just RT+X to fill a meter into special attack + silk bind. Hardly even call this weapon "the song hammer" any more. Mostly spinning around like your break dancing. It's a dance hammer now and ironic enough, you don't have to worry about "the battle dance" flow that Hunting Horn was known for. *You know what the best kicker is? Been a lot of tracking of speedrunning for Rise and I mean a lot. Hunting Horn is in the place it was for Iceborne. 12/14. 3rd to last. The bottom 3 again.* Imagine Greatsword had the charge mechanic and True Charge Slash removed. Instead, you got something similar to Switch Axe sword mode (fluid 3 swipes combo). After filling a gauge, you do the "special attack" which was a quick double spin that mimics the value of landing that True Charge Slash but it was quick and easy to land. This would not be a Greatsword any more. It wouldn't have any of the original appeal of Greatsword landing big overheads that you charge up. You don't have to worry about positioning or timing any more. Just slice away to fill a meter and then do a simplified "special attack". Follow up with silk bind attack to make it a cool big combo! I don't think any fan of the Greatsword would like this. Everything they learned about Greatsword, all the skill and tactics that made it satisfying, removed. Removed why? To make it simple and easy to use for more appeal.
I feel like hh hit harder in iceborne to me. I DEFINITELY get more knockouts in world. Also, because of the way that we played hunting horn main in world, the conversation of support v. dps was propelled to the forefront of mh discord; which in turn birthed this button mashing version of hh we wield in rise. Therefore im alway gonna prefer the world hh. Doots up!
It's been almost 10 years since I've played Hunting Horn, but in base-world, I had so much fun with the weapon. The double-hit you do when smacking the horn forward for an extra note (is that encore? Sorry I genuinely forgot) was SO satisfying to hit.
As someone new to the series in rise and not played mhw, i always find these videos enlightening I have fun with the horn as a secondary for sure, but I watch these videos about the older iterations of HH and intrigue of seeing the mechanical depth of songs and recitals and encores. Kinda a bummer to not carry it over to rise :/
For me what defines the hunting horn from other weapons is its ability to inflict sonic damage as a damage type different from the basic 3 along side the typical blunt damage. An aspect of the weapon that Carries over across most games regardless of the changes
In light of this video resurfacing id like to expand on my previous comment. Splitting the two iterations into 2 dif weapons is still something Id love to see. I have a vision for a more 'burst support' style weapon. Let me explain: This weapon im imagining remains fast paced like the rise horn, but will be changed a bit to distinguish its moveset from "blunt dual blades". Instead of just wailing directly into the monster, Id like to see it jump in and out of its attacks. As in, go wack the head a few times and then use that momentum to bounce away. The attacks you do would still determine what buffs you want, but instead of "global" buffs, it would shoot out "dusts" that you have to run through to get short term super strong buffs (a few seconds long). I imagine they would look like toester's blast blight clouds, just buffs instead. Something like, just enough time to get some hits in with "atk XL". The weapon itself would have the option to side step into the clouds as well so it can use them.
Although I did use hunting horn alot through my rise play being Second to switch axe, I've honestly enjoyed both generations and world hunting horn the most because of the overall weight and feel of it and also having every hunting horn having so much personality with their sounds. Mastering the older style hunting horn felt so rewarding and having people appreciate my skills with it was always a welcoming feeling. Now been using the weapon I started with from the first time I got in game being hammer. It still has that weight that is satisfying to land and still have more weapon options for different situations
I think they should def implement the double note system in future games. It was probably the best system to incentive people to actually hit the monster when playing HH and keep them DPS~ing as part of the team
No, those are just bad HH users; never had a problem hitting the mons with 4-chain attacks. you shouldn't dumb down a weapon for people who don't know how to use it and refuse to learn, especially since Hammers exist anyway. it's a support weapon; If you can't contribute significant damage while supporting, you're better off being a dps main with LS/LBG/HBG like 90% of the MH community.
I mostly agree with all your points, although I did only play Hunting horn during World and rise, back in World it was basically the ou weapon I used by far the most, it just kept me playing more and more. Now in Rise it just doesn't have that same impact you could call it, but hey now I've picked up Gunlance which despite its being underpowered is super fun.
that's what I felt, previous game's HH had this whole battle dance with the monster in which you would wait, attack, wait, attack... in which you had to make decisions to what attack to use, rise's horn has a bread and butter combo that you just keep repeating whenever as it's also very fast to use, so very rarely you will need to use other attacks where in previous games you had to know the weapon very well to play effectively the whole recital thing aswell, world's was very nice as you could use recitals ofensively only if you had a song and by itself and using it offensively was one thing that differentiate corner dooters and HH users, the new one just feels like "play" instead of recital, not to mention encores being gone which combined with the bread and butter combo makes the whole mechanic of having to juggle your songs non-existent, ironic as it may sound I really liked to have the queue system force me to shake the playstyle (and while this is kinda the case with performace mode in rise, it's basically a non-issue there, specially with echo mode which should emulate the feeling of the old HH) the one thing I like in rise's HH is the infernal melody (not the HH spin tho), it helps making me feel less bad using pure support horns compared to the infamous attack up L that you just had to use to be able to compete with the other bottom tier dps weapons, but not having song levels also means that you can have attack up and affinity on the same horn which kinda defeats the point aswell
To me as someone who started in world and wanted to use all the weapons my personal least favorite was the HH cause of the following. 1 I hated sitting in one place playing my horn for boost/buffs that would feel like they lasted a minute or two doing no damage 2. In solo hunts it feels like it drags the hunt out a bit compared to other melee weapons especially when you get hit (I get it’s a support but so are other weapons like bowguns or the bow with arc shot) 3. Even after looking at guides I never understood the HH with its encores. It was a damn shame cause it was so cool of a concept but rise changed my view on it I was able to understand it while understanding other weapons I didn’t have to sit there playing a song doing no damage hoping I didn’t get hit and it was simple to use. While I can feel for older HH players and if anything there’s probably a way for a middle ground where old players can have their version back albeit either a switch skill in sunbreak or in the next game. Personally it’d personally suck if my favorite weapon the SA just got changed that the axe was worthless (maybe not a great comparison but it’s something). Great videos but as someone who didn’t like old HH this does give me respect for old HH mains and highlights issues about changes to weapons that while I like not everyone does.
100% Agree. The main addition I was excited for in Rise was being able to draw your weapon without playing the default note. Being able to draw your weapon while running so you could quickly attack with a different note would be huge for pre Rise HH. Often I'd be queuing up a specific song but I had to sheathe my weapon. With the frantic pace of combat, being able to continue building that song without messing up with the draw attack with default note would be awesome. But in Rise it's utterly pointless because you don't need to worry about what note you're playing first considering how quick you can bash out songs without even thinking. A really bizarre design choice. I personally like Rise HH, it's pretty fun and stylish but as you said, they ripped the soul out of the weapon. I'd be perfectly fine of this weapon being the 15th weapon, maybe mixing it up differently so it's not a horn (maybe a staff? Especially with the twirling and dancing style of it). It's a damn shame that pre Rise HH is gone, as the veterans and mains of the weapon miss it dearly, myself included. All we can hope for is that it returns better than ever in MH6! Another great video Handi! :D
I understand the point of the argument but on the other hand, I enjoy not having to have sheet music in front of me when I play monster hunter. Also they changed the weapon in a way where corner horning isn't really a valid strategy anymore which imo, makes the weapon a lot more fun to play as a whole
you can turn it off in the settings menu, its what i do, if youve played hh before gen 5 then learning the combinations was part of the deal, corner horning was never a viable strategy, rise hh did not do anything to change that
While Rise HH lends itself better to a very aggressive playstyle it lost pretty much all of the depth it had in Worldborne. Back in IB no two horns feel the same due to the songs available and the nature of the combo structure. For the Velkhana HH you would queue up your songs very differently compared to Rajang for example. In Rise your choice of HH makes no difference to how you actually play because all your buffs involve hitting the same button twice or queueing up your three notes, be it Rajang, Teostra or whichever HH you picked. The lack of impact is the logical conclusion of how much Rise sped up combat is not an issue exclusive to HH. Take the gunlance for example, in Worldborne your Wyvern's Fire was pretty much guaranteed to knock down or at least flinch the monster while in Rise, more often than not the monster just shrugs it off and keeps going. This is not a complaint per se, much rather it's an example to demonstrate my point of view.
mannn, i’ve been waiting on the video for ages Handi haha. to be real tho, this is so cathartic to watch. i hope the sentiment is shared in the Japanese Rise community as well, so maybe Capcom will listen and at least try to salvage the weapon a bit in Sunbreak, or at least prevent this from happening again in MH6 to be more realistic.
Great video, but I went to look for the stats in HH for world and the usage rate was never above 3%... 10% HH in Rise doesn't seem like 'hardcore fans' only. It was a clear improvement if our only metric is usage rates. I don't know. I loved the concept in world and GU but could never main it because the dmg output was so low, seems like I'm part of that 7% of new mains in Rise.
I think it would be interesting if we got Music Maces as a 15th weapon off of what you .mentioned here. Blunt dual weapons that flow like dual blades but have the short music plays like Rise Hunting Horn. And then we can get improvements on the og World Horn. Maybe HH keeps horn or woodwind sounds while the Music Maces get percussion sounds
The first time I played the hunting horn was on MHR-S and I have to say I love it. I don't care for complicated mechanics, it's supposed to be fun, not a freaking memory test with complicated combos. 😊
That *was fun* for people. Thats why people played HH. How they changed it in Rise for more popularity and guess where it still is? Bottom 3. All those changes for nothing.
Some other UA-camr (I forget who) talked about a possible fix for people who prefer older weapon playstyles. In essence, every weapon type would have "modern" and "classic" modes which would be activated upon equipping a weapon. The modern mode would include stuff like the new counters, finishers and movement options, while the classic mode would be comprised of bits and pieces of prior iterations. For example, the Longsword would basically revert to its MH4 moveset, losing the ability to counterattack and use the Helm Splitter but gaining increased damage overall. The same would apply to Hunting Horn, losing the ability to produce shockwaves and recite music on the go, but with heftier attacks (with better KO values, maybe?) and the return of recital combos. I think it's a fantastic idea, and it's even a step easier to balance than the multiple styles and moves present in MHGU. Everyone could finally rest easy knowing that their favorite playstyles wouldn't be getting removed from the game.
Why I like the MH Rise Hunting Horn, Damage first music second. I like that many more people play it, I like that I have even seen more people playing it in World after Rise came out.
@@wits_end. The statistics show that a significantly higher percentage of players are using hunting horn now, you're just mad that you're in the minority of players that stopping using it instead of started.
I've heard somewhere that the original concept for the weapon was that it was inspired by Capoeira moves (African-Brazillian martial art that combines dance, music and mostly kicks), and Rise's version seems to be more in line with that idea in terms of speed and animations. However the weapon itself over the years build its own identity of being slow, but very deliberate in terms of what moves you should use. It progressively got faster and stronger over the years. Kinda halted the speed in the 4th Gen, instead receiving some adjustments and new adjacent moves that served as support for the core moveset that basically never really changed. HH is my second most used weapon after the SA. And the changes to it in Rise kinda reminds me of the changes done to SA in World. They absolutely do more damage, but it's not a natural evolution of those weapons, it completely changes how you approach each encounter. In SA's case it utterly broke the already flimsy balance between Axe and Sword Mode, alongside a new, highly unprecise and just as limited Sword moveset with worse mobility that pressures you to spam 2 moves, with Axe Mode acting like a cooldown more than anything. Rise pretty much fixes every issue brought to SA in World without having to go back on the changes. Rise's HH feels like World SA's Sword Mode, except there's no Axe Mode. Extremely simplistic moveset that deals good damage, but doesn't do a whole lot besides it. I used it a lot, maybe even more than in older games due to it being much easier to deal with any monster using it with the new moveset, but it's not the same weapon.
I dunno, I may be an old HH vet from 4U but I don't have a particular problem with the new HH style, for me its just a lot more fun than standing still and taking unexpected hits. However, I believe in MH6 they could marry the two styles together into a blend where the weapon can be fast but you wanna aim for the slower more tactical hits because they do that much more damage and you could do small buff songs but you wanna build up either a gauge or a good timing to do a full recital for a strong version of each buff. I could see that happening in the future.
I remember when I first picked up the horn in World, I had been playing my first MH game and in 100 hours I didn't see a single horn. So, I stored my GW and did some breathing exercises and carried it to the last patch doing my darndest to entertain my fellows as well as beating up beasties. When Rise came out.... I played 3 hours and haven't touched it since.
Hunting Flute(HF): A weapon hybrid of the Hunting Horn(HH) and Insect Glave(IG). It loses the arial mobility, cutting damage, and kinsects of the IG for some of the buff/support and stun/exhaust capability of the HH. The HF gains essences by attacking a monster directly in specific parts, which are used to buff (which are there can only be three per weapon like in IG and do not have the encore capability of the the HH) HF. When the HF user is buffed, they can do dances that can be used as an additional means of attack, while also spreading the gathered essences to buff other hunters. Boom, we keep old HH while introducing a more fast-paced variant that the newer game wants to push forward.
I am sorry to hear that every aspect that you liked about the weapon was removed, but i must also say that i hated those aspects in world (and i still have to try it in GU) because in part were you describe rise HH as a hawaian flame stick dancer, well that is exactely why i love it, yeah buffs are important for the feel of the weapon but in essence the songs are just that...buffs, you talked about the charges of the different weapons, but that is an actual move that deals damage and you must build up damage to reach it and use it at the right time, and HH has it, the infernal rage song which deals lots of damage and feels impactful (almost every time i use it i stun the Monster for even more damage) so i guess is just a matter of taste, nice video tho and i appreciate that you didn't go like: this weapon sucks and capcom ruined it.
This sums up how I feel about Rise's horn really well. I've been playing the horn since 3U and loved the way you had to use the weapon. Worldborn was definitely the best version of it and I do think they gutted the weapon to "try and attact more players" as I think at one time World's player base was only 1% for hunting horn. I hope they go back to the previous way the weapon worked. I loved how the song system made the weapon so unique and fun to play. Rise does a few things well with it. I don't mind the animations and I really like Infernal Melody and Earth breaker, but I do want the que system back and spread out the buffs again. I absolutely feel they short changed this weapon and it did not need it. This is why I call it the baby mode horn.
i have loved every single iteration of hunting horn. i have been playing it since i first started the game, back in 4. even now, i use hunting horn in sunbreak as my main weapon. but everything he said made sense. I'm impressed by his ability to deliver a point. and he isn't wrong either, the heft and positioning of the weapon that it had before seems all but gone now. Even though i actively enjoy it, i still boot up older games just to feel the real hunting horn again. R.I.P. hunting horn
Rise follows HH's "rules" in practice, but not in spirit. "Hey guys we have Iceborne's cool spinny attack too. Nevermind that it's just a little visual flourish to a completely different mechanic seldom used at the end of a bar, rather than a common attack you'd constantly interact with and judge its best use moment to moment, IT'S STILL IN HERE AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS!" Just as an example, but of course we could chose any other little or big aspect of the weapon. As an IG main, Rise completely misunderstood the Dive attack which does take a LOT away from the weapon's enjoyability to me, but at least it was not a total HH-revamp.
I actually kind of like that the horn spin was nerfed -- not because it was too overpowered, but because it was a bit of a silly move to be utilized as often as it was. I'm guilty of spamming it sometimes for that flurry of big numbers, and think that in theory it works better as a sometimes-move with bigger damage. My heart goes out to IG for losing out on some of its uniqueness. I feel that Rise's hunting horn now has more in common with IG than it does with hammer.
In worldborn I was a dual blade and horn main and I just now started getting into the horn in Rise. You are very much correct in this video, I "like" it in Rise but Worldborn's was better in my opinion
I'm glad that Wilds is going back to world but I would like recitals to be a little shorter. And it always seems like monsters specifically target me during a recital when I'm all the way across the arena.
I love HH but if I had to change one thing about it it'd be adding a big ass attack to it like the super elmental discharge on a Charge Blade or Longsword's Helm Breaker. The closest HH has in World is playing a concert and use it to hit (more specifically the one where your char plants it on the ground and then kicks it along with the sound waves, that one is the most satisfying) but like it's not satisfying enough. It can go further.
This is probably, why they completely revamped the attack sounds the Horn makes while bullying monsters. I already noticed in the Rise Demo, but I thought my head just made things up. But when I crafted the Mizu Horn it was immediately clear, that now it plays the monster theme instead of the jingles it did in GU while using any move. Further testing I noticed that almost all Horns now have bits and pieces of some OST. Of course, it's not really the same because the deliberate action of playing a Recital / Encore made you stop and focus on the music aspect, which always felt satisfying. Rise broke this for the sake of fluidity and I really feel bad because the game slowly drifts from what it used to be. Reminder that Capcom als is the IP owner of Devil May Cry, you can guess the rest. Side note: I main HH since 3U and Nether Sinphony just had an amazing sound, I loved it.
This video was made before Sunbreak released. I don't think any of your feelings are necessarily invalidated by the additions to horn in Sunbreak, but I do think it's only fair to accurately recognize and at least respect the new identity of horn, which in my opinion really takes shape in Sunbreak, with the addition of things like Silkbind Shockwave and Sonic Bloom. In line with your statement about non-Rise hunting horn being a weapon about queueing up notes and playing songs, I feel that Rise hunting horn is about damaging monsters with sound waves. They essentially took the Sonic Wave melody from Iceborne and made it the entire weapon. Recitals, Silkbind Shockwave, Infernal Melody, and Sonic Bloom (horn's best wake-up option) all damage with a Sonic Wave type attack, which ignores hitzone values. Silkbind Shockwave provides a self-buff that adds the sonic shockwave effect to all attacks, which really adds to the impact and feel of everything. The Silkbind Shockwave silkbind attack can be used reactively with the monsters' attacks as an armored dodge of sorts, and it chains into Infernal Melody (the spinny attack which is the equivalent of the left trigger / Echo attack from world), which I believe, when performed with the shockwave buff, is the highest burst of damage hunting horn has. Infernal Melody + Silkbind Shockwave is, at least so far, my favorite attack in Monster Hunter, it feels so good to land every hit. I don't think you're wrong to feel how you do but I just don't think your characterization of Rise hunting horn is very charitable.
This is why i love both hunting horns, we have right now. If i wanna go for heavy slamming with well times buffs I play World and if i wanna breakdance on a monsters face at high speed I'll go play Rise. Wilds showed off that HH will be weighty and feel heavy again which is great because my preference will always go to World weapons.
GenU improved accessibility to weapons across the board thanks to hunting styles making up for some weapon drawbacks, but I still think it did hunting horn the best and is the one game where I enjoyed playing hunting horn over other options
When I finally gave it a try in Iceborne, I couldn't put it down. I obsessed and grinded to get every one of them, and would make a dozen builds for the horns I liked most. In rise, I tried it for a decent chunk of Village quests, and had to put it away. It's got a weird feeling of "I'm doing damage, but I'm not having fun". In Warhammer 40k, many people will say "play what makes you happy. Playing an army because it's 'meta' will be only leave you burned out and lacking once it leaves the meta spot" and I feel that's exactly what HH is going through right now, it's trying to be meta when it SHOULD just try to be fun again
I honestly don’t expect most of what we see in Rise to appear in the next Mainline MH game which is good to know for old HH mains! The devs are probably aware of the amount of love the old HH play style
I mean Rise is just a lot faster overall and not giving the horn some sort of compensation for that would mean it gets completely left behind. Trust me when I say you would not like fighting Mizutsune or Almudron with old hunting horn
It used to be a rewarding and kinda complex weapon, now its braindead. It used to feel like a giant, hefty hammer, now it feels like a rotten branch, hollow inside and thus very lightweight.
I like Rise's speed and fluidity... but they've sacrificed too much of the HH's identety in the process as it was a more thought-based weapon where you had to think what is the perfect time to perform your moves and positioning was quite important. Rise's HH is more of a mindless endeavor where you just do attacks and watch numbers go high without having to think. I'm also miffed about Rise's HH greatly losing the melody aspect that previous games had where you actually played songs. It became a lot more action oriented in exchange for becoming bland and losing it's identety.
Even if i agree with you about how losing recital and encore, and simplified the note system is now butchered HH's identity, i like the new moves more, they feel like the hunter is dancing si i think it goes well with the weapon. For me, pefect HH would be Rise moveset with Iceborne note system.
Used to dance in rythm with the hunting horn in older games....In rise its a button mash stick that makes sounds like those electric saxophones for kids.
This is exactly what I feel about the GS and LS in games that came after 4U. GS got the shoulder bash which lets you super armor through almost any attack, and the LS gives you the extremely forgiving counter. These two weapons used to be all about positioning (unless you had evasion), but have now become very forgiving timing weapons that require way less skill IMO.
World had a perfect hunting horn I was in perfect harmony with my damage and my music. I thought I was ride or die with the hunting horn but I hate rise hunting horn so much I just can't. They massacred my boy
I disagree hunting horn may be more damage focused(because that is what it needed), but it still retains the wait and punish playstyle. As far as the song and stuff, sure it sucks that it's gone, but I'd rather it be more viable in combat than more viable in dooting. Part of the reason that the song system is better is because of opportunity cost of playing the songs in older games. You had to squander your opening to play the songs when you could have just gotten the hunt overwith and now the stun you have built up on the monster is slowly degrading. Personally, the way I would have went about it is to either improve the framedata or motion values and make playing songs less commital(being able to cancel songs with a roll). That way you could better play songs during the monster's "turn" of attacks so you could seize openings by attacking.
I think I agree with you here. Great video discussion, the bias did not actually detract from your analysis and elaborations since you make a mostly objective observation while explaining its subjective repercussions. The Rise Hunting Horn is indeed a departure from its predecessors, similarly to most if not all of the weapon types in Rise, and can be seen as part of the total reflection of Rise as a whole within the franchise. Rise is much more action oriented and faster paced, which is a different experience that might put off veteran players, just like how Rise Hunting Horn puts you off here. On an unrelated note, that Velkhana Horn sounds absolutely beautiful, makes me wanna buy Iceborne and replay World. I was initially on a MonHun hiatus ever since I got burnt out on World during the Kulve Taroth siege, but I never played Iceborne. My friend got me Rise and him, myself and another friend began playing, and I initially thought "I was a Hunting Horn enjoyer in the past, and it got super buffed in Rise, I should play that," and said as much to them too. I did and immediately got thrashed both from overall Kushala level rust and it just felt different. That, and the same thing happening with Charge Blade, my other favorite weapon from 4U and World, put me off a lot, hurt my enthusiasm to play a good bit at the time and I honestly felt kind of ashamed to suck with it. Fast forward a few weeks, I've gotten over my rust mostly and I'm really feeling the monhun spirit now, although I'd become a Gunlance enthusiast in the process (yay Blast Dash). I even went as far as to download an emulator and play MH3U for the first time, and that brought back the old feelings and nostalgia from playing the older generations. I played mainly Gunlance at first but soon began using Hunting Horn as well to have an Impact weapon. Dude, it felt like being home again coming back to the old Hunting Horn. In the past I liked the weapon conceptually but wasn't completely game smart enough to fully use, understand and really appreciate the weapons aside from hit monster, try to dodge, etc, but here I felt truly competent and able to understand both the what and the how of it, I even got good hunt times with it against tanky guys like Duramboros. It just clicked; I can more easily remember songs, I can tell when and where to perform while actually remaining engaged with the monster safely (mostly) w/o feeling the need to commit to encores unnecessarily or flee far away to perform, and I've even been able to handle the lack of Maestro and the times when my songs fall off w/o getting clapped. To be fair, though, I don't have a library of horns yet, been maining Black Coffin while I've been going back and forth between point hunts, village and port, so I mainly know screamy box noises. I have been making sure to return to Rise every now and then, and I even made the Magnamalo Horn and upgraded it once to feel it out again. That old experience definitely translated well enough, but it brought that feeling that you have iterated in your discussion; it feels stronger, sure, but the weapon feels too light, too fast and rather spammy, indeed just like an impact flavored Dual Blades. Echo mode further exacerbates this with being able to queue single notes and churning them out as full songs. The spinning and dancing, while musical and fun to watch, doesn't feel like Hunting Horn anymore but instead some other equally cool, faster musical weapon. Could you imagine if Rise incorporated a mildly touched up old gen Hunting Horn that enhanced the oomph and heaviness of its swings like you proposed but also created a new music weapon as its sibling centered on dances like the Shakalakas? A HH and this dancer idea paired up and stacking song and dance together as a buff tag team would be so cool.
What makes me the saddest about rise horn is how it forces you into certain follow ups Every single game prior you could follow a one swing with any other swing, the only thing you couldn't do was repeat swings. This, with weapons reach and wide sweeps made it engaging to position yourself for that perfect angle on the monster's head at all times. Being locked into certain actions just takes so much freedom and variety out of the second-to-second gameplay of the weapon.
I truly relate to this video and agree with your feelings on rise horn so I wanted to leave my personal experience with it here :) I got world back in 2020 to play with my partner, I adored the game to death and had progressed up to Deviljho while using a variety of weapons through out, mostly Longsword and Greatsword as my Go-to's, but since Deviljho had one of each I saw it as an opportunity to try more of the others, first I wanted to try out the horn since I believe it was the only weapon I hadn't tried even atleast once before. Slowly as I toyed around with it I absolutely fell in love, the aesthetic combined with the moveset felt perfect, I've never loved a fictional weapon as much as I do the horn, in a game filled with swords and hammers, they took this real life hunting tool and turned it from a novelty to an actual weapon to hunt and fight with, it perfectly captured the aesthetic of everything Monster Hunter is and shaped what it meant to me. During the same time I dabbled with GU a bit and I loved horn there too, I would watch videos about the past games and see how each generation they would upgrade it slowly, it seemed like every addition flew into the next perfectly from game to game, then World came and man they knocked it out of the park. The positioning and movement capabilities, the unique songs as you mentioned, the queue and the new sound based attacks which did a wonder for it's aesthetical appeal in my opinion. As Rise was announced and I was beyond hyped I couldn't bare my excitement, knowing the person who invented the horn in the first place was directing it + they were gonna make it so you can choose what attack to do when you unseathed, it all seemed perfect! The trailer dropped and they seemed to be adding more sound attacks! Everything I wanted was coming true and the continuous evolution of the horn seemed to go by uninterpreted, until I played the demo itself. I remember feeling as if something was missing, as if I didn't fully understand it and I remember saying to my partner in confusion that they removed recital? That's how it felt, like something wasn't clicking. I was very genuinely was bummed but still excited to give the game a try! Rise came and went and I just became further disappointed, I could continue to reiterate all the points you brought up about why it's so different and how it feels like they took out the soul but there's no need really. I do wanna add as a final thing that eventually I grew to like Rise horn, in it's own way it's special and I think has merit but although I enjoy it and learned to like it my disappointment still hasn't waned. I can only hope they return it to how it used to be but even so I'll still probably play it anyhow, I'm too attached :P
I still wholly believe that if one of the possible intention was to try give a blunt weapon a faster speed for players who didn't want to use the "slow" blunt weapons then Capcom honestly should just port over Tonfas already
The sad thing is that we already HAD a fast blunt weapon that can buff the party (debuff the monster) in frontier, the TONFA. I know many people don't like a lot of stuff that frontier made but the Tonfa where really cool and should be in the main line of Monster Hunter. But sadly I don't think we will ever see that happen and the weapon will be forever lost in a game you cant even play anymore.
Honestly, the best thing about Rise's hunting horn is the performance attack speed. No longer you have to stay locked into an animation for 3 or more seconds to make use of your weapons main feature, playing songs- The thing that I hated about previous iterations of the horn, was how after queueing notes you had to stand still for several seconds to get the songs to go off. MHW rewarded you with exhaust damage if you managed to perform next to the enemy, as playing songs would cause your horn to blast a shockwave as it played. But the animation was so long you could only use it safely in very sparce moments and made "corner dooting" a reasonable strategy. With a quicker performance you are less punished for aggressive use of performance and you can get quite the damage out of it too.
I totally agree with this video. I am a Bow main but HH is my 2nd love. What I really loved about the MHGU and MHWI was how methodical I had to be to use it. You not only have to consider which move to use based on how youre angled to from the montser or how you predict the monster is gonna move. But you also have to know if the string if move/notes youre gonna use can que up a song to either reapply the buff or do extra damage when you do a recital. I agree, the Rise horn is more of a blunt dual blades which is fast and uunga boonga. BRING BACK GU OR WI HH PLEASE CAPCOM!
At the same time, Rise's HH is clearly superior to the older one in terms of actual strength. The old HH was definitely more unique, but also had very few people playing it. Rise got a lot of people to play horn for the first time.
Got a lot more people playing a completely different weapon yeah. rises HH is NOT HH. they're missing out on a very fun and rewarding weapon and they dont even know it, and most people that pick it up will most likely drop it and think its boring forever bc of it.. thats pretty sad imo.
I think my favorite hunting horn even though I've never played the weapon at all is the Basarios Rock, as someone eho loves guitar, bass, and heavy metal. Its perfect, it sounds perfect, and it looks beautiful
So as I was watching I could relate to what you were saying as a person who loved but couldn't get into HH in GU didn't like it in world, and loved the trailer but immediately lost interest in it in rise once I started using it. I do love the fluid move set of the weapon but agree that it lacks the feel of weight, and also feel the lack of proper song lists and performances takes away any complexity that the weapon had. If they slowed the weapon slightly, buffed the motion values slightly, and brought back double notes, encores, and song lists; while retaining the improved fluidity of the new moveset, I personally think it would be a far more satisfying weapon
Rise Hunting Horn feels more like a Hunting Flute. My first Monster Hunter game was MHGU and I only picked up the Hunting Horn because I thought it was a support weapon and I wanted to ease one of my friends into hunts by being able to support them a bit, I quickly realized that playing Hunting Horn was the equivalent of apotheosis, not in the MMO way of I decide who to heal but in the MH way of I can buff attack, defense, and health and still do damage. I don't consider the Hunting Horn a solely support weapon but it still has support capabilities, the Rise Horn hardly even feels like it has support capabilities. It's like the difference between a self buff and a party buff, it just doesn't carry the same weight. In MHGU and Worldborne I was able to do so much and now I get three melodies in exchange for a weapon that flows beautifully, and don't get me wrong the Rise Horn does flow beautifully but it's not impactful, to put it in music terms Rise Horn feels like the prelude of the first of Bach's Six Suites, beautiful but while I do love it it doesn't have a huge impact whereas the Hunting Horn proper feels like Holst's "Mars, Bringer of War", quite a bit more grand. I don't know if that made sense to anyone but I suppose it doesn't really matter I just wanted to get my opinion out there. Btw if anyone is wondering I play the Viola, Euphonium, Sing(Baritone), and the Bass Guitar.
this really is like if they took lance and in order to make a fundamentally very niche weapon more universally appealing, made it so that every guarded attack is a counter and was sped up by 100% sure, lance autocountering every attack with a quick retaliation and high damage would make it good, and it'd make it more universally appealing, but it spoils the entire REASON people like me are drawn to the lance. oh wait THEY DID THAT IN RISE
I pretty much agree. I have played HH a bit since p3rd, though I think I never played HH in 4u. I think the base world HH was the best iteration with encore. You had to load up a song and then play it twice. It looked stylish and felt good when you landed the hits. I think iceborne already meddled with this feeling adding the spin, because spin was basically on command fast and a lot of damage attack. IIRC elemental crit builds on HH were crazy in iceborne. I don't hate Rise's HH, but it really lacks that oomph of older games, with the exception of earthshaker. But I hope the next MH game after Sunbreak goes back to base world style. The spin can be there again but it should be after recital/encore or something. The full encore combo being the biggest damage combo just makes more sense to me, because as I said you had to build and set it up.
What if they had two separate versions of the hunting horn similarly to how charge blade has both impact phials and elementals? A string of text saying “moderato” to symbolize the horn is old style and another saying “allegro” to make it play without recitals, but with considerably less damage output than the slow counterpart
You would need pretyy drastic differencies to make that work. This could probably be better addressed with two different variants of the weapon, kinda like what we have with heavy and light bowgun.
Basically "I'm okay with the new hunting horn as long as the old one is preserver as well," I'm down with that.
The new hunting horn is fun for a while, but its basically lesser hammer and it doesn't really feel like you're playing support, because you're not, its just a by product of playing a big club.
I can accept without any effort the existence of a more simple/aggro oriented HH as long my version exists. I dont care about power level; just let me make meaty angular hits and reposition myself (battledance)... Ah, and make recitals/encores ♥️
Moderato allegro smth smth idk i don't play music
Bow mains rise up
@@joelmichaelviado1226 HH is not lesser hammer. Its hammer but better in every way now.
The new hunting horn is a completely new weapon... almost. Honestly I'd love it much more if they took this "dancing weapon" concept and made it its own new weapon, and brought the old HH back. Having both would be great because I do enjoy the new HH, but it shouldnt have come at the cost of losing the one we know and love.
Lol Hunting Maracas
@@Phoenix8764 that exact thought is what I'm imagining lol
Pair of maces (or a 2 ended mace) that are just fuckin maracas or other percussive instruments.
@Jazzy Ginger Tonfas but they are wind instruments, it's a risker dual blades (because you have to play music by punching the monster to get basic buffs) with impact and ko along with weaker but more spammable short range music buffs. Each attack plays a distinct note and they transition into each other and make one of them have a parry property(l2/lt). And that move if held charges a ground slam that when released knocks back the monster and launches the Windtonfa (Windfonfa? Windflute? Idk.) user into the air. The skill switch abilities would probably revolve around the air.
Then we can keep the hunting horn slowerbuffs. Calculating and methodical Good positioning, big damage, big buff.
Melody Blades
I would LOVE if we kept both. Have one be a horn, and one be like.... A drum maybe?
In any case, let HH have the big big buffs, and the fast horn do more DPS, but have significantly weaker buffs as well. That way, we get diversity in musical weapons, and don't have to really make any cuts or decisions.
I personally love rises HH far more than OG, but as someone else said, as a hammer main, I hate that we lost an entire weapons identity to make that happen.
This is the same argument my wife gave me when they changed hunting horn from freedom 2 to what it became in 3U. Back then, you had to switch to concert stance to play music. You couldn't walk or run in the concert stance, but you could use directional attacks to evade while playing your notes to activate a buff with your recital at the end. I couldn't make sense of it, but she said it was like a beautiful, intricate, tactical dance you had to master to stay alive, play, and fight all at once. When they got rid of recital stance and integrated it and all if its moves into the normal stance, allowing you to gather notes while fighting, then stopping only to buff, i thought it made it much easier and reasonable to play with. She, on the otherhand, said they gutted the weapon, made it nothing more than a fancy hammer, and she quit. Hunting Horn hasn't been right since 2, she says.
I have all but forgotten about this! It was the reason I picked up the HH in the first place. Being slow was never a problem for me, I was playing GS since the first MH. I thought it was such a cool concept when the, "preform to live" concept clicked. Looking back current HH is kinda... watered down and we will more than likely never have that style again.
I remember this and it was so painful to try and play songs in those games. It could have up to 4 notes with individual notes taking up to 2 seconds to play + the time to do the moves to switch to that note, and you might need to play the song twice, meaning that songs could take a good 20 seconds to play with all their animations.
I wanted to love the weapon, but unless you were in 4 player co-op it was near impossible to actually *play* in a fight.
Hunting Horn in Freedom Unite felt like one of the Charge Blade stereotype people talk about, you REALLY have to read to learn how to use the weapon because the note buffs aren't accessible in the start menu, you have to read and memorize it from the Hunter's Compendium by the bed.
I am very happy that P3rd improved upon this by adding the note combinations on the start menu. And made Hunting Horn a bit easier to get into by removing the recital mode. I had no idea how to use the recital mode when I tried it because I was so used to P3rd's Hunting Horn lmao.
Concert stance was done away with because monsters moved faster so it wasn't a wise option to keep it as is. The same reason why they changed it in Rise. But as the video says, it doesn't fit the weapon
I've been learning mhfZZ(mh2 style) hh since last week. Got me quite confused at first. P
It’s a double shame because I felt like Iceborne’s rendition was the best one yet. I liked the play style enough before, I just got bored with not having many unique attack options aside from the admittedly fun 180 degree backswing tech. Iceborne added the spin, which was pretty much all I ever wanted and then some. I played a lot of HH in Iceborne. I feel like instead of dropping recitals, they could’ve just made them faster or something.
yeahhh, if they literally just ported the Adept or Valor recitals onto Iceborne's moveset (even with the I-Frames), then it would've been perfect. oh well, here's to hoping that MH6's team gives Horn its return to form.
Iceborne was perfect. Hunting Horn was like an art and a science and it was just fun.
Also I liked playing the different songs/performance
I personally would've found it cool if they gave us even more melodies to play with with more than just status effects but also offensive uses for people that wanna play alone.
Instead of making it a pseudo hammer, they could given us melodies that launch a wave of the current status effect, or leave it as an area of effect, or a counter roar which would would need you to get the melody three times to cast, but would let you stun the monster so you can attack it more easily.
An "Attention distortion" melody which would cause the monster to stop focusing on whichever player it currently was and switch targets.
An anti-air melody which would take some time to cast, but would act as a free flashbug to knock down flying wyverns.
A "destructive vibrato" melody, which would give you a damage boost the next attack that lands on a monster, which stacks every time you cast it.
A "song rider" melody which would let you use a completely different playing animation, where you'd ride the horn as music carries you long distances at high speed, letting you cover long distances like you could with the Lance.
Anything that would make the HH any more useful than some potions and other craftables.
I absolutely loved it both in world and mhgu and used it as my main weapon in both games. Rise butchered the weapon into something so diffrent i dont even consider it the same weapon anymore.
I left this comment on another video discussing HH changes and I thought I'd post it here as it touches so many of the same points you hit. It just shows that old HH players share the same sentiment.
"I play and love the HH in World and in GU. When I saw Rise HH showcase I was super excited by the idea of Iceborne's song queuing mechanic and spins being coupled with the stylish animations of Valor style recitals from GU. Then the demo came and I found a husk of a weapon. Playing HH in Rise is so mindless that I can't enjoy the weapon at all. It seems great lengths were taken to make new attack animations so that attacks flow from one to another beautifully, but none of that matters. All you see is a loop of A then ZR repeated constantly after attack buffs have been played. And those attack buffs are as simple as press the same button twice. Old HH was about finding unique combo paths to maintain the songs specific to your horn.
Iceborne was amazing as it allowed you to queue and play multiple songs at once and required skill/knowledge about how many songs you could safely play at any given time.
GU had the double note system which rewarded players who actively fought a monster while queuing a song.
The soul of HH was the recital. Lining up your notes and then smashing your song across a monster's face is HH. Playing one note in an animation that last less than a second is nothing more than making a noise. That's not music.
In Rise, HH really is just a reject hammer and I dispise it."
I'm a weird case of going from rise to world instead of the other way around. I played a bit of hh rise and enjoyed it but after hearing you talk about it on stream I decided to main it in world. It feels totally different. In world every fight makes me think about what songs I need and the most efficient way to ready them up. It's a very active weapon especially compared to rise where I feel like I don't need to think at all (the lower chance of dying in rise makes it even worse).
Same here. Picked up HH in Rise and went to World and continued to main it. There's something about being able to actively build and do songs over the period of the fight that World does so well. In terms of hh over all the games I've played, HH definitely peaked in World and it's a shame it was reduced to what it was in Rise.
The only other hh that comes close to World's is valor hh in genu.
I hope MH6 continues to build upon what World had, instead of what Rise created
I don't even play HH but I agree.
I actually die in Rise a lot more than base World (minus Behemoth of course)
@@thegreatlagi9974 I feel the same way but about charge blade it feels like CB was perfected in iceborne then rise came along and took away or straight up ruined things I loved about it. Since it seems things will stay the same in sunbreak all I can hope for now is just that the next main line games don't adopt rises weapons but world's and iceborne's. I never want the wirebugs and silkbind skills in another monhun game EVER they're basically the source of every problem in rise.
I honestly haven't played HH ever since FU and I practiced it hard in IB before Rise was ported to pc so I can use it effectively there but alas, all my effort was thrown in the bin with how they butchered HH in Rise.
I used to love the POWER of the songs how you could deal a huge amount of KO after building up a song and then do it again, it was so cool the burst of music power, how you could choose which kind of recital to go with depending on the situation. It had such power. Such gravity.
Take 1: “Imagine the longsword with… even more… stuff.”
Take 2: “Imagine the longsword being able to counter off of every attack as opposed to ALMOST every attack.”
Take 3: “Imagine the longsword not tripping anyone with any attack anymore.”
Take 4: “Imagine the longsword kept its red spirit guage perpetually.”
Take 5: “Imagine the longsword EXISTING.”
Imagine The Longsword
Take 3 and Take 4 are perfect
Idk why but in my case my enemy is db, I'm using lance and I can't hit monster at all getting hit by db user all the time maybe because db attack to fast.😅
Imagine longsword but you have a doppleganger that appears when you get red spirit gauge mimicing your attacks with a slight delay.
@@AkiraFoxDoesntExisti did, get me a bucket🤢
I really don't think it was to make HH more popular as much as classic HH would have been the most hurt by Rise's sped up combat. By the time you finished a World performance in Rise, the monster probably would have already charged up some anime super move and carted you. Maybe they could have met in the middle somewhere, like just simplifying the notes needed for songs but regardless they made their decision and it will be up to Capcom to decide which to bring back for MH6. Since MH6 is more likely to be like World with less... coked up anime style combat, my bet would be on World-style.
Good take. Just started rise and pukei already surprised me with how fast it moves lol. Feels like a different monster.
Yeah true, primal malzeno wouldve been a pain in the ass with world HH
I'm in the same boat as you with this i miss old HH but i guess i'm holding out hope that rise's version of Hunting horn is only around for rise and sunbreak, rather than the new normal going forward.
Let's hope it's one of those ideas they come up with for one game, only to be completely abandoned in the next game.
Yeah def the way it might go and they might just add one thing from rise HH moveset to the newer one.
hard to say, whether or not it stays will probably be based on the user metrics more than anything else, HH had a massive overhaul from 2nd to 3rd gen and we never went backwards then either.
I hope not... i bet theres more hh players than ever since its actually easier to use, while the old hh player were not happy about the changes they were replaced by new players.
They won't most likely, seeing how much of a waste it would be that they reworked it. It is quite unfortunate tbh...
Hunting horn got such a massive buff in world it basically solved all it's problems with the queue system and the echo attacks, not only did it have the best utility but it also now had damage and less downtime to back it up, unfortunately it seems the "support weapon" stigma was too deep rooted in the community so most people ended up ignoring it. I'm always switching mains between games and it seems in Rise it'll be no different, maybe I'll try the swaxe.
And when the Deviljho update came out the hunting horn self improvement also gives you a 15% attack up buff
Looking at speedruns/challenge runs, Hunting Horn usually still scored somewhere near the bottom. It wasn't until it got a flashy new move in Iceborne that it actually became a viable solo weapon (and it was heavily nerfed after the demo which had 1 of the new moves being completely OP).
Anyhow, I think this video is just a bunch of dumb complaints. They buffed nearly every weapon up into the heavens. If this HH was pretty much the same as in World/IB I can assure you this video creator would've likely made some dumbass video complaining about how they have not adressed issues and should've gotten way more moves variety and buffs. You can never please them.
It’s also a very complex weapon. More people would rather play Longsword and Hammer over Gunlance and Hunting Horn.
@@thenonexistinghero i can tell you dont play the weapon but are you aware you can buff a weapon without changing its playstyle lol
@@bipsahoy8064 Except I did play the weapon in World (along with every other weapon other than the bow and charge blade). Almost all weapons got huge buffs and changes in playstyles in Rise. Most weapons play almost nothing they like used to pre-World.
While I like using Rise HH, I can definitely agree with the character and charm being removed from the weapon. I had a similar revelation when I was playing Freedom Unite and was thrust back into the paintball system to track monsters.
I've loved the idea of hunting horn since 3U but never went deep on it because I felt like I had to have a party of friends to support me while I deal less overall damage. But maybe I'm just being a dork about it and should give it more of a real chance :)
Great vid, btw! Very informative and well written!
every mh game ive played i solo hh, and while definitely doable it might limit you from time to time.... but it just makes you that much better of a hunter!! B)
Please do not torture yourself by soloing with HH. It is a group support weapon for a reason, and is tuned as such. If you want to solo HH, just play Hammer.
@@RaethFennec i argue that each of the hhs moves (before rise) each provide their own utility, and managing song uptimes while positioning requires a great amount of focus and skill that is soooooo rewarding for me. thats just how i see it though
@@vactyl__ I think the key to that is that it could still achieve that in Rise even in its current form by simply having more songs back and maybe some answer to monster attacks other than wirebug repositioning.
Rise HH would have been 5 times better if they had only added the bug moves and the ability to unsheathe while moving
And just sligtly increasing its MVs
EXACTLYYYYYYYYY AND JUST KEEP BREAK DANCE
@@bang2goeezy496 no
I really like the Self Improvement move in Rise. I played a decent amount of HH in Gen, GenU, World, and Iceborne. As a secondary weapon I'm enjoying it much more. Sad to hear that it's lost it's identity as a main weapon.
@@FloorFourteen yes
Hadn't touched HH in Rise until this last week and this video explains exactly how I feel. Something just felt off while playing it and I quickly dropped it, now I'm back to my dual blades. I miss the heft of those weighted swings from old HH.
My first MH game was World, due to market accessibility, and I fell in love with the idea of the horn after starting out as a hammerbro. The setting that MH:W carried reinforced my love for the horn further (brand new environment, hunters being more akin to researchers, with effort to understand species, behaviour, and ecosystem and not just hunt/capture monsters) since, in my perspective, it was the epitome of "know the monster and it's behaviour, and know yourself and your limitations".
While it was difficult at first, the feeling of achievement after successful hunts was just much better. Knowing that I needed particular buffs to sustain the hunt, and balancing that with the knowledge of the monsters behaviour...
When i found out 'Perform > Crush' was the Horn's bread n butter in Rise, I was perplexed from my experience in MHW, because the horn can't afford that consistency.
The horn, IMO, rewarded the knowledge of your song list and how flexible the user could be when switching to play out one song for another
I loved how the HH felt in world and old gen monster hunter games. I'm not a HH main but I do love how slow and tactical you have to be to be successful with the horn (coming from a SnS main). I don't really like how speed up everything is in rise especially with how they changed hunting horn. Rise is still pretty fun though lol.
As a veteran ride or die HH main I felt exactly the same with the Rise changes, so much so, while I played only HH on the switch version, now I changed to hammer in the PC Rise port.
I still love my HH, I long for the day to see it's true song again, I really hope they go back to the old horn in the next main series title.
I was never a Hunting Horn main, but HH is easily my 'second love' next to Charge Blade. I genuinely adore taking this weapon out in World/Iceborne, GU, 4U, and 3U - basically every MH game I've played except for Rise.
I still play it in Rise, but it doesn't feel purposeful. I like weapons to feel methodical, and to me the Hunting Horn was one of those weapons where I have to make a split-second decision about which particular swing I want at any given time to doot the head of the monster I'm fighting. I agree with all of your points about the lack of weight, recitals/encores being diminished and basically not existing, but ultimately it's the combo-heavy nature of the weapon that really made me fall out of love with this version of it. I want every attack to be deliberate and meaningful, both in terms of the notes I build up on my staff and how best to reach the face - and in Rise, I just don't get that anymore.
I desperately want HH to be brought back to an older version of itself in MH6 because I really want to keep this beautiful weapon in my back pocket for hunts but in Rise it's just not something I really want to play all that often.
Great work on the new video friend! Couldn't agree more with the points you made. I wasn't a HH enthusiast until I joined your community, and I saw its beauty in Iceborne. Unfortunately Rise didn't carry over and provide the same beauty that I had fallen in love with. Honestly kinda motivated to make a "Why I hate Rise Switch Axe" after watching this lol.
HH evolution - From concert pianist to radio DJ
don't be afraid of your own opinion bro you dont have to spend the first 2 minutes apologizing for saying that the new HH is bad, because it is
Handi, I would like to ask you to reconsider Rise HH and give it another chance. I, and many others in the HH community, initially were apprehensive with the changes. Like you, we thought the nature of playing HH has devolved into a spammy playstyle, but after some deliberation and optimization, we know this now to not be true.
While I fully agree that the recital tunes are sorely missed, overall I think the change in recital mechanics is for the better. Encores were cool but practicality-wise, they were never really very useful back in Iceborne other than for renewing buffs or only for Echo Wave bombs. The performance and echo recitals in Rise are significantly better moves with better uses.
I do not agree that the hunting horn is no longer methodical and has devolved into a spammy DPS weapon. In my opinion (and I am sure several others agree as well) Capcom made changes to the HH in a way that you can play it as a spammy DPS weapon if you want, but at the end of the day, OPTIMAL PLAY is still achieved by playing the slow, methodical way as it was played before; only now you have significantly better moves such as the Self-Improvement Recital and the Crusher to help you.
Spammy HH play only works in Low Rank because monsters flinch and stagger very often. Once they reached High Rank, spammy players would notice that their playstyle no longer works as well as it did in Low Rank. In my opinion, this could actually be the real reason why we've seen a drop in the weapon usage over time. As Amadeus points out in his Advanced HH Guide, spammy HH play and the Magnificent Trio are actually beginner traps.
The core gameplay of HH is still the same; play methodical and slow until you score a knockdown then hammer away when the monster is knocked down. The spammy nature of stringed combos comes in handy for dealing significant damage to DOWNED MONSTERS. This gives HH a fighting chance in the DPS race which was sorely lacked in previous games' iterations.
If I had anything to complain about HH, its that it may have the worst switch skills out of all the weapons. Echo Mode is great in some situations but Bead of Resonance and Melodic Slap are outright horrible and should never be considered. And my biggest gripe of all is actually the Earthshaker silkdbind move. Earthshaker is your greatest Gauge Filler but it has such a long recovery time and by its very nature (super armor and flinch resistance) it encourages aggressive and reckless play which goes counter to the slow, methodical playstyle that we like.
Agreed. HH has always been my main weapon in the games and you used to see massive drop offs of players using it in high/G rank especially when they realise you can't just go ham on monsters with it. I'm fine with auto recitals, part of the problem late game was getting knocked out of long animations with screw all i-frames leading to alot of 'Corner - Horners' in GU and in World/IB. Honestly all it would take would be to add some variation or longer note button combos in G - rank and/or maybe have them only activate on contact with the monster to incentivise more agressive play, make it more risk reward as really that's all that seems to be missing. Whether they do this or not... who knows? Be nice if they do. It would just be nice to not be the only HH player in a hub in G rank and have other players think you're nothing but a support weapon. Sure, you can be but the buffs are more for the HH player... everyone else if they're close enough gets the afterglow affect of your awesomeness as if you're not in range, you ain't getting no buff buster. The moment you go into a fight thinking you do nothing but mindless button bashing, you're going to find yourself downing potions like they're going out of style. That's not an optimal way to play...
Idk man, i've played through hh in both iceborne and rise up till endgame, and I ended up dropping hh in rise once i beat the game for greatsword since I just wasn't enjoying it at all. I agree that button mashing is a beginner trap, but the weapon has gone from having a complex and strategic playstyle where every tool in your moveset can be used, to a weapon where you repeatedly spam the same attacks over and over.
I think that if the HH is to be more focused on dps, it should do the biggest damage with the recital. Those big slaps and shockwaves before you perform. In world I just love it when I end up staggering a monster while providing support. And I assume that’s what mhw devs did to try make HH more appealing.
Absolutely agree. Hunting Horn for me is one of the weapons that really encouraged deliberate play, like you said. You plan out what song you wanted to play even before approaching, but also need to understand the monster you're fighting to make sure the hits land as well. You sneak in notes with the double swing and the handle poke, so that you could make the recital hit the monster in the time that you have left. Rise HH felt like you just attack attack attack. Anyway, great video! :)
I'm gonna be honest and ask for some fan's opinions, I'm not trying to draw ire, I want to understand. So I'll put it up here to TLDR: Why was the original so "good?" My experience with it was a super-slow weapon that exposed yourself to all kinds of attacks with buffs that "helped" but could be outdone by adding another layer of Hunter to your fight (I didn't SEE the HH-Hunter as an actual combatant, using HH basically negates your team a member), and the things didn't only deal less damage than a lot of other tools but their songs were so drawn out and lackluster. You act like a monster isn't going to annihilate you the moment you play 2 doots off that thing let alone 24 doots in sequence.
I know, a proper HHH is gonna tell me "You've got it ALL wrong!" and maybe have no idea what I'm talking about, or, maybe they will, so that's why I'm saying "Why use this item? In my hands, it's slow, inaccurate, deals subpar damage, makes you vulnerable, and its main mechanic isn't as useful as the number of negatives on this list."
Rise made me love the hunting horn because now I can be a support, feel useful, and still have to think about what attacks I'm actually doing. I can't spam one attack, I want to play the entire song. I have the Wirebugs where I can enhance my damage, place a grenade charge waiting for the right time for an explosion of stun and exhaust... My songs come out so fast, they're useful to the team, and the damage/stun power of the tool is nimble enough to not be at risk of death and powerful enough that I **FEEL like a member of the team** and not just some guy in the background trying not to get harassed for playing music during a fight. The meter to the ultimate-buff is useful to make your whole team a BETTER team, and it gives a reason to WANT to hit the monster. Rise made me forget that I hated the Hunting Horn.
What happened? Why do I see the previous hunting horns as extremely unpleasant weapons versus useful support tools that are essentially "A Hammer that has grace and purpose" (no shame Hammer Hunters, the simplicity of Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk-Bonk can't be topped, and some days you just wanna hit a monster like they're a nail that just won't drive into the wood.)
as a HH main in WorldBorne with over a thousand HH hunts and have solo'd all monsters at this point but have only a few hunts using HH so far in RiseBreak, this is my opinion. Although, be aware that it might change after a while.
TL;DR: I really don't like the new Rise's HH movesets because it's so aggressive, fast and has so much more complex moves with simple songs while WorldBorne HH moves are extremely simple, slow and deliberate (even when compared to Hammer and some GS moves) with complex songs. EAch WorldBorne's HH inputs just feels significantly more meaningful than Rise's.
A big part of why I love it is because it is simple, slow and deliberate. Despite the simple movesets, the play style is complex. You really gotta know your attacks, notes, timing, positioning, facing angle and that of the monster's too, if you want to play effectively. Each inputs can be a massive screw up or a massive contribution. To elaborate further:
+ Standing in the right place but facing the wrong direction often means you'll hit the wrong part or not hit at all. Sometimes you have to face it 90 degrees to the right or left for the best chance to hit it. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
+ Beginning an attack at the wrong time or using a too lengthy attack during a short opening means you'll open yourself to getting hit. But missing an opening that you could've attack in means you'll massively lose DPS. You have to be precise in your timing and opening abusing. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
+ Not knowing what attack to use so that you can combo with the previous attacks to make up a song means you won't be able to play a song that either you or the team might need. This means your songs will have big down times. You have to have the ability to use all of the previous points simultaneously. *This is something you have to be aware of*.
Pretty much all the things I listed above really requires simple, slow and deliberate moves so that you can learn and get used to the weapon. Despite how simple it looks, the skill floor is really high. You can't just jump in, do 6 hits because you hit a button 2 times while looking at the monster, ignoring angle, ignoring notes, focusing on only damage, get out unscathed and get a song up in Iceborne. For Iceborne's HH, you have to ask yourself if you're standing at the right place, right angle, input the right button for the right attack and/or right note and get, at most, 2 hits in before you have to get out because each attack hits only *once or twice* (Echo attack is the only exception worth mentioning because multi-hit attacks like performance/encore are just bad, in general). I haven't even mentioned directional attacks that helps queue songs faster. Each inputs needs consideration on whether you need to play a song or do damage and you can only have both when you've learnt the monster attacks, follow up attacks, the weapon's attacks and have a proper strategy. Each button press is meaningful.
It really forces you to know the monster and your weapon to squeeze in any attacks you can get while queueing the songs so that you can maintain optimal damage and optimal buff time. I only wish that WorldBorne's HH has higher damage per hit to compensate for the lack of DPS.
The lack of those is the main reason why I hate Rise's horn, so far. This is a completely different weapon that they easily could've made into a 15th weapon. The songs are so simplified for Rise's HH and each inputs just feels so much less meaningful compared to Iceborne. The thing I got used to for hundreds of hours got overhauled into something else altogether and I have no way to play the weapon that I loved. I'm not against people that enjoys it and I don't want it removed, I just really want my old HH.
@@CuongNguyen-sw1eb
I absolutely respect your opinion and do love to watch WorldBorne HH gameplay. But tbh, all of those reasons is why I vastly prefer the RiseBreak HH. To me,and this is something I didn't see touched on much if at all in the vid, is ACCESSIBILITY.
In World, HH felt slower and twice as committal as GS with pitiful damage output. You needed to have near pinpoint accuracy or you do absolutely nothing. And still have extremely subpar damage output. On top of that, the whole gimmick of playing songs has you jamming out for nearly 3 whole seconds with no way of getting out of it. You'd get coocked in that time. Rise imo fixed all of those issues. Is it a bit more unga bunga? Sure. But it definitely feels satisfying and damn sure has plenty of varying combos to pull off especially adding in SB's new switch skills and different horns having some different effects and sometimes entirely different moves on them.
I understand the old one had a different flavor, but I just don't feel like I should have to know advanced calculus just to play the game, ya know?
But we can rejoice here. Wilds' HH looks like they're giving us a nice middle ground between World & Rise.
I still cant believe how you managed to turn a 3 hour long stream into a 10 minute video
As someone who has played HH since 3U, I just disagree. I can understand you want a slower more methodical weapon, and that’s fine. But saying the soul of the weapon isn’t there anymore is just ridiculous. The weapon is still all about music, and still hits just as hard. In rise they gave it much more soul by letting hunting horn feel more fluid and less of a buff first attack second weapon. I like the fast paced gameplay and it reflects rise/sun break’s gameplay as well. IMO it always felt like HH needed something more and rise gave it that.
On the topic of music, it’s still definitely there. You just don’t have to spend ages to listen to it. The symphonies are faster to make it so that you can go to do what the game is all about, hunting the monster.
I’ve played world HH and 3U and 4U and Gen/GenU and rise/Sunbreak HH and while they’re all somewhat different or barely depending on what your definition may be, I think each iteration of the weapon improves it. I’ve heard for the longest time that HH might as well just be a musical hammer and the only reason to use it is for the buffs which sucked to hear since I love the weapon. Now in rise it feels like less of a cousin and more like a different family which I love. It gave itself distinction from hammer in a new way and also made it so that the music you play feels like you’re not just swinging around a rock on a stick. I love that.
I understand it’s personal opinion and that’s fine but your bias clouds your vision.
the 3 notes loading aside, echo note is so good, and paired with the ability to do dragon echo wave. People are missing out.
9:35 I love this comment because it's why I loved using magnet spike in frontier. I'm a HH main as well and this video makes me so happy to not feel alone in my opinion, literally I agree with all your points. I've gotten to a point where because my favorite weapon isn't at all the same I barely have played monster hunter over the last 9 months and have only recently started trying to come back after playing some 3U again. Thank you for making this video and spreading the word (even though I'm a year late to it)
The comments all kind of reflect the same thing, honestly. "Hunting Horn is more accessible, and I don't like that cause it means it's no longer the cool special thing to play."
Safi hunting horn with attack melody 3 pretty much sums up exactly why hunting horn is amazing.
Got Attack boost, Defense Boost and Max Stamina+Recovery bubble. Situational song for wind pressure negate.
Your "dps" rotation wasn't just "do perfect rush" or charge shield and axe then do lots of ups and downs or spam SEAD.
All 7 of the basic attacks are reliant on position and timing along with trying to achieve a specific combo to upkeep songs. Culminate this into recitals and echo waves. Fantastic.
Hunting Horn in Iceborne was amazing but it did need 2 things.
A) Some capacity to change out song list on any HH, similar to Safi weapons or used the silkbind method. Slot A, B, C. Select between 2 different songs in each slot.
B) Better motion values to reflect the weight of the weapon swings. This would also end up giving the weapon a nice damage boost.
The self buff lasts about seven and half minutes while the team buffs last about four minutes.
Also don't need to stack all the songs and play a full 3 songs plus encore. That is very unreasonable. No monster is going to let you doot in place for 5 seconds unless they are downed.
The biggest misconception is that you will be purely in maintenance mode trying to constantly do full 3 song recitals into encore. This will never happen unless your a corner horner.
The biggest hits you can do are super pound and actually recital. You want to just play recital for that 1 song and then roll out.
This works because you don't need to do encore for the higher buff. Just play the same song twice.
Encore still has an amazing purpose. Since your songs lost 4 minutes, what exactly do you focus on in between?
Spin to win! Get them echo wave songs stacked up, KO a monster and then unless a very satisfying triple echo wave recital into encore for big damage.
Compare this to Rise version.
Regular routine:
Magnificent Trio to apply every buff instantly then RT+X to fill meter.
Magnificent Trio to be able to use full meter attack into silk bind attack.
Monster KO:
Magnificent Trio to be able to use full meter attack, RT+X two or three times until the monster starts to get up. Use silk bind skill.
The weapon was too streamlined.
The head sniping, position based gameplay was mostly toned down.
Songs? It just happens. More akin to drinking demon drug at the start of a mission. Not a weapon mechanic any more.
You have to use the Magnificent Trio to do the follow up Infernal Melody or what ever it's called for the full meter attack, so whether you like it or not... got all the song buffs.
Pretty much a button mash weapon with a meter to fill up for a special attack. This is not really an instrument that strings notes together to play a song.
No recitals, no encores, no true reliance reliance on positioning or timing, and no buff managment. Just RT+X to fill a meter into special attack + silk bind.
Hardly even call this weapon "the song hammer" any more. Mostly spinning around like your break dancing.
It's a dance hammer now and ironic enough, you don't have to worry about "the battle dance" flow that Hunting Horn was known for.
*You know what the best kicker is? Been a lot of tracking of speedrunning for Rise and I mean a lot. Hunting Horn is in the place it was for Iceborne. 12/14. 3rd to last. The bottom 3 again.*
Imagine Greatsword had the charge mechanic and True Charge Slash removed. Instead, you got something similar to Switch Axe sword mode (fluid 3 swipes combo).
After filling a gauge, you do the "special attack" which was a quick double spin that mimics the value of landing that True Charge Slash but it was quick and easy to land.
This would not be a Greatsword any more. It wouldn't have any of the original appeal of Greatsword landing big overheads that you charge up.
You don't have to worry about positioning or timing any more. Just slice away to fill a meter and then do a simplified "special attack".
Follow up with silk bind attack to make it a cool big combo!
I don't think any fan of the Greatsword would like this. Everything they learned about Greatsword, all the skill and tactics that made it satisfying, removed.
Removed why? To make it simple and easy to use for more appeal.
I feel like hh hit harder in iceborne to me. I DEFINITELY get more knockouts in world.
Also, because of the way that we played hunting horn main in world, the conversation of support v. dps was propelled to the forefront of mh discord; which in turn birthed this button mashing version of hh we wield in rise.
Therefore im alway gonna prefer the world hh.
Doots up!
It's been almost 10 years since I've played Hunting Horn, but in base-world, I had so much fun with the weapon.
The double-hit you do when smacking the horn forward for an extra note (is that encore? Sorry I genuinely forgot) was SO satisfying to hit.
As someone new to the series in rise and not played mhw, i always find these videos enlightening
I have fun with the horn as a secondary for sure, but I watch these videos about the older iterations of HH and intrigue of seeing the mechanical depth of songs and recitals and encores. Kinda a bummer to not carry it over to rise :/
For me what defines the hunting horn from other weapons is its ability to inflict sonic damage as a damage type different from the basic 3 along side the typical blunt damage. An aspect of the weapon that Carries over across most games regardless of the changes
Hunting horn mains in tears at the thought of actually dealing damage.
In light of this video resurfacing id like to expand on my previous comment.
Splitting the two iterations into 2 dif weapons is still something Id love to see. I have a vision for a more 'burst support' style weapon. Let me explain:
This weapon im imagining remains fast paced like the rise horn, but will be changed a bit to distinguish its moveset from "blunt dual blades". Instead of just wailing directly into the monster, Id like to see it jump in and out of its attacks. As in, go wack the head a few times and then use that momentum to bounce away. The attacks you do would still determine what buffs you want, but instead of "global" buffs, it would shoot out "dusts" that you have to run through to get short term super strong buffs (a few seconds long). I imagine they would look like toester's blast blight clouds, just buffs instead. Something like, just enough time to get some hits in with "atk XL". The weapon itself would have the option to side step into the clouds as well so it can use them.
Although I did use hunting horn alot through my rise play being Second to switch axe, I've honestly enjoyed both generations and world hunting horn the most because of the overall weight and feel of it and also having every hunting horn having so much personality with their sounds. Mastering the older style hunting horn felt so rewarding and having people appreciate my skills with it was always a welcoming feeling. Now been using the weapon I started with from the first time I got in game being hammer. It still has that weight that is satisfying to land and still have more weapon options for different situations
I think they should def implement the double note system in future games. It was probably the best system to incentive people to actually hit the monster when playing HH and keep them DPS~ing as part of the team
No, those are just bad HH users; never had a problem hitting the mons with 4-chain attacks. you shouldn't dumb down a weapon for people who don't know how to use it and refuse to learn, especially since Hammers exist anyway. it's a support weapon; If you can't contribute significant damage while supporting, you're better off being a dps main with LS/LBG/HBG like 90% of the MH community.
I mostly agree with all your points, although I did only play Hunting horn during World and rise, back in World it was basically the ou weapon I used by far the most, it just kept me playing more and more. Now in Rise it just doesn't have that same impact you could call it, but hey now I've picked up Gunlance which despite its being underpowered is super fun.
It went from remembering each song and it uses to hit button twice
that's what I felt, previous game's HH had this whole battle dance with the monster in which you would wait, attack, wait, attack... in which you had to make decisions to what attack to use, rise's horn has a bread and butter combo that you just keep repeating whenever as it's also very fast to use, so very rarely you will need to use other attacks where in previous games you had to know the weapon very well to play effectively
the whole recital thing aswell, world's was very nice as you could use recitals ofensively only if you had a song and by itself and using it offensively was one thing that differentiate corner dooters and HH users, the new one just feels like "play" instead of recital, not to mention encores being gone which combined with the bread and butter combo makes the whole mechanic of having to juggle your songs non-existent, ironic as it may sound I really liked to have the queue system force me to shake the playstyle (and while this is kinda the case with performace mode in rise, it's basically a non-issue there, specially with echo mode which should emulate the feeling of the old HH)
the one thing I like in rise's HH is the infernal melody (not the HH spin tho), it helps making me feel less bad using pure support horns compared to the infamous attack up L that you just had to use to be able to compete with the other bottom tier dps weapons, but not having song levels also means that you can have attack up and affinity on the same horn which kinda defeats the point aswell
To me as someone who started in world and wanted to use all the weapons my personal least favorite was the HH cause of the following. 1 I hated sitting in one place playing my horn for boost/buffs that would feel like they lasted a minute or two doing no damage 2. In solo hunts it feels like it drags the hunt out a bit compared to other melee weapons especially when you get hit (I get it’s a support but so are other weapons like bowguns or the bow with arc shot) 3. Even after looking at guides I never understood the HH with its encores.
It was a damn shame cause it was so cool of a concept but rise changed my view on it I was able to understand it while understanding other weapons I didn’t have to sit there playing a song doing no damage hoping I didn’t get hit and it was simple to use. While I can feel for older HH players and if anything there’s probably a way for a middle ground where old players can have their version back albeit either a switch skill in sunbreak or in the next game. Personally it’d personally suck if my favorite weapon the SA just got changed that the axe was worthless (maybe not a great comparison but it’s something).
Great videos but as someone who didn’t like old HH this does give me respect for old HH mains and highlights issues about changes to weapons that while I like not everyone does.
I didn't know they did this in Rise. Hunting Horn from World made me fall in love and i only use Hunting Horn and Light Bowgun
I remember the old MHW arena speed run clip, the guy using Acid gravy's horn on gold rathian. I feel bad for that rath on every hit on it's head.
100% Agree. The main addition I was excited for in Rise was being able to draw your weapon without playing the default note. Being able to draw your weapon while running so you could quickly attack with a different note would be huge for pre Rise HH. Often I'd be queuing up a specific song but I had to sheathe my weapon. With the frantic pace of combat, being able to continue building that song without messing up with the draw attack with default note would be awesome.
But in Rise it's utterly pointless because you don't need to worry about what note you're playing first considering how quick you can bash out songs without even thinking. A really bizarre design choice. I personally like Rise HH, it's pretty fun and stylish but as you said, they ripped the soul out of the weapon. I'd be perfectly fine of this weapon being the 15th weapon, maybe mixing it up differently so it's not a horn (maybe a staff? Especially with the twirling and dancing style of it). It's a damn shame that pre Rise HH is gone, as the veterans and mains of the weapon miss it dearly, myself included.
All we can hope for is that it returns better than ever in MH6!
Another great video Handi! :D
I understand the point of the argument but on the other hand, I enjoy not having to have sheet music in front of me when I play monster hunter. Also they changed the weapon in a way where corner horning isn't really a valid strategy anymore which imo, makes the weapon a lot more fun to play as a whole
you can turn it off in the settings menu, its what i do, if youve played hh before gen 5 then learning the combinations was part of the deal, corner horning was never a viable strategy, rise hh did not do anything to change that
While Rise HH lends itself better to a very aggressive playstyle it lost pretty much all of the depth it had in Worldborne. Back in IB no two horns feel the same due to the songs available and the nature of the combo structure. For the Velkhana HH you would queue up your songs very differently compared to Rajang for example. In Rise your choice of HH makes no difference to how you actually play because all your buffs involve hitting the same button twice or queueing up your three notes, be it Rajang, Teostra or whichever HH you picked.
The lack of impact is the logical conclusion of how much Rise sped up combat is not an issue exclusive to HH. Take the gunlance for example, in Worldborne your Wyvern's Fire was pretty much guaranteed to knock down or at least flinch the monster while in Rise, more often than not the monster just shrugs it off and keeps going. This is not a complaint per se, much rather it's an example to demonstrate my point of view.
mannn, i’ve been waiting on the video for ages Handi haha. to be real tho, this is so cathartic to watch. i hope the sentiment is shared in the Japanese Rise community as well, so maybe Capcom will listen and at least try to salvage the weapon a bit in Sunbreak, or at least prevent this from happening again in MH6 to be more realistic.
Great video, but I went to look for the stats in HH for world and the usage rate was never above 3%... 10% HH in Rise doesn't seem like 'hardcore fans' only. It was a clear improvement if our only metric is usage rates. I don't know. I loved the concept in world and GU but could never main it because the dmg output was so low, seems like I'm part of that 7% of new mains in Rise.
I agree that the damage was low, but all they had to do to fix that was buff the mv values. Not rip out song playing entirely
got rhis frim another video that best summarises rise horn "you turned a hunting horn into break dancing"
I think it would be interesting if we got Music Maces as a 15th weapon off of what you .mentioned here. Blunt dual weapons that flow like dual blades but have the short music plays like Rise Hunting Horn. And then we can get improvements on the og World Horn. Maybe HH keeps horn or woodwind sounds while the Music Maces get percussion sounds
The first time I played the hunting horn was on MHR-S and I have to say I love it. I don't care for complicated mechanics, it's supposed to be fun, not a freaking memory test with complicated combos. 😊
That *was fun* for people. Thats why people played HH. How they changed it in Rise for more popularity and guess where it still is? Bottom 3. All those changes for nothing.
Some other UA-camr (I forget who) talked about a possible fix for people who prefer older weapon playstyles. In essence, every weapon type would have "modern" and "classic" modes which would be activated upon equipping a weapon. The modern mode would include stuff like the new counters, finishers and movement options, while the classic mode would be comprised of bits and pieces of prior iterations.
For example, the Longsword would basically revert to its MH4 moveset, losing the ability to counterattack and use the Helm Splitter but gaining increased damage overall. The same would apply to Hunting Horn, losing the ability to produce shockwaves and recite music on the go, but with heftier attacks (with better KO values, maybe?) and the return of recital combos.
I think it's a fantastic idea, and it's even a step easier to balance than the multiple styles and moves present in MHGU. Everyone could finally rest easy knowing that their favorite playstyles wouldn't be getting removed from the game.
Why I like the MH Rise Hunting Horn, Damage first music second.
I like that many more people play it, I like that I have even seen more people playing it in World after Rise came out.
Maybe they did those changes cause no one was playing with HH 😅
Alienating hunting horn mains. So now no one plays.
@@wits_end. The statistics show that a significantly higher percentage of players are using hunting horn now, you're just mad that you're in the minority of players that stopping using it instead of started.
I've heard somewhere that the original concept for the weapon was that it was inspired by Capoeira moves (African-Brazillian martial art that combines dance, music and mostly kicks), and Rise's version seems to be more in line with that idea in terms of speed and animations. However the weapon itself over the years build its own identity of being slow, but very deliberate in terms of what moves you should use.
It progressively got faster and stronger over the years. Kinda halted the speed in the 4th Gen, instead receiving some adjustments and new adjacent moves that served as support for the core moveset that basically never really changed.
HH is my second most used weapon after the SA. And the changes to it in Rise kinda reminds me of the changes done to SA in World. They absolutely do more damage, but it's not a natural evolution of those weapons, it completely changes how you approach each encounter. In SA's case it utterly broke the already flimsy balance between Axe and Sword Mode, alongside a new, highly unprecise and just as limited Sword moveset with worse mobility that pressures you to spam 2 moves, with Axe Mode acting like a cooldown more than anything. Rise pretty much fixes every issue brought to SA in World without having to go back on the changes.
Rise's HH feels like World SA's Sword Mode, except there's no Axe Mode. Extremely simplistic moveset that deals good damage, but doesn't do a whole lot besides it. I used it a lot, maybe even more than in older games due to it being much easier to deal with any monster using it with the new moveset, but it's not the same weapon.
I dunno, I may be an old HH vet from 4U but I don't have a particular problem with the new HH style, for me its just a lot more fun than standing still and taking unexpected hits. However, I believe in MH6 they could marry the two styles together into a blend where the weapon can be fast but you wanna aim for the slower more tactical hits because they do that much more damage and you could do small buff songs but you wanna build up either a gauge or a good timing to do a full recital for a strong version of each buff.
I could see that happening in the future.
I remember when I first picked up the horn in World, I had been playing my first MH game and in 100 hours I didn't see a single horn. So, I stored my GW and did some breathing exercises and carried it to the last patch doing my darndest to entertain my fellows as well as beating up beasties. When Rise came out.... I played 3 hours and haven't touched it since.
I like it specifically because you basically dance and I think that's cool
Hunting Flute(HF): A weapon hybrid of the Hunting Horn(HH) and Insect Glave(IG). It loses the arial mobility, cutting damage, and kinsects of the IG for some of the buff/support and stun/exhaust capability of the HH. The HF gains essences by attacking a monster directly in specific parts, which are used to buff (which are there can only be three per weapon like in IG and do not have the encore capability of the the HH) HF. When the HF user is buffed, they can do dances that can be used as an additional means of attack, while also spreading the gathered essences to buff other hunters.
Boom, we keep old HH while introducing a more fast-paced variant that the newer game wants to push forward.
I am sorry to hear that every aspect that you liked about the weapon was removed, but i must also say that i hated those aspects in world (and i still have to try it in GU) because in part were you describe rise HH as a hawaian flame stick dancer, well that is exactely why i love it, yeah buffs are important for the feel of the weapon but in essence the songs are just that...buffs, you talked about the charges of the different weapons, but that is an actual move that deals damage and you must build up damage to reach it and use it at the right time, and HH has it, the infernal rage song which deals lots of damage and feels impactful (almost every time i use it i stun the Monster for even more damage) so i guess is just a matter of taste, nice video tho and i appreciate that you didn't go like: this weapon sucks and capcom ruined it.
9:37 actually some bladed dancing shoes with MHR HH's animations that get extra benefits from songs sound cool
This sums up how I feel about Rise's horn really well. I've been playing the horn since 3U and loved the way you had to use the weapon. Worldborn was definitely the best version of it and I do think they gutted the weapon to "try and attact more players" as I think at one time World's player base was only 1% for hunting horn. I hope they go back to the previous way the weapon worked. I loved how the song system made the weapon so unique and fun to play. Rise does a few things well with it. I don't mind the animations and I really like Infernal Melody and Earth breaker, but I do want the que system back and spread out the buffs again. I absolutely feel they short changed this weapon and it did not need it. This is why I call it the baby mode horn.
i have loved every single iteration of hunting horn. i have been playing it since i first started the game, back in 4. even now, i use hunting horn in sunbreak as my main weapon. but everything he said made sense. I'm impressed by his ability to deliver a point. and he isn't wrong either, the heft and positioning of the weapon that it had before seems all but gone now. Even though i actively enjoy it, i still boot up older games just to feel the real hunting horn again. R.I.P. hunting horn
Rise follows HH's "rules" in practice, but not in spirit.
"Hey guys we have Iceborne's cool spinny attack too. Nevermind that it's just a little visual flourish to a completely different mechanic seldom used at the end of a bar, rather than a common attack you'd constantly interact with and judge its best use moment to moment, IT'S STILL IN HERE AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS!"
Just as an example, but of course we could chose any other little or big aspect of the weapon.
As an IG main, Rise completely misunderstood the Dive attack which does take a LOT away from the weapon's enjoyability to me, but at least it was not a total HH-revamp.
I actually kind of like that the horn spin was nerfed -- not because it was too overpowered, but because it was a bit of a silly move to be utilized as often as it was. I'm guilty of spamming it sometimes for that flurry of big numbers, and think that in theory it works better as a sometimes-move with bigger damage.
My heart goes out to IG for losing out on some of its uniqueness. I feel that Rise's hunting horn now has more in common with IG than it does with hammer.
In worldborn I was a dual blade and horn main and I just now started getting into the horn in Rise. You are very much correct in this video, I "like" it in Rise but Worldborn's was better in my opinion
I'm glad that Wilds is going back to world but I would like recitals to be a little shorter. And it always seems like monsters specifically target me during a recital when I'm all the way across the arena.
I love HH but if I had to change one thing about it it'd be adding a big ass attack to it like the super elmental discharge on a Charge Blade or Longsword's Helm Breaker. The closest HH has in World is playing a concert and use it to hit (more specifically the one where your char plants it on the ground and then kicks it along with the sound waves, that one is the most satisfying) but like it's not satisfying enough. It can go further.
This is probably, why they completely revamped the attack sounds the Horn makes while bullying monsters. I already noticed in the Rise Demo, but I thought my head just made things up. But when I crafted the Mizu Horn it was immediately clear, that now it plays the monster theme instead of the jingles it did in GU while using any move. Further testing I noticed that almost all Horns now have bits and pieces of some OST. Of course, it's not really the same because the deliberate action of playing a Recital / Encore made you stop and focus on the music aspect, which always felt satisfying. Rise broke this for the sake of fluidity and I really feel bad because the game slowly drifts from what it used to be. Reminder that Capcom als is the IP owner of Devil May Cry, you can guess the rest.
Side note: I main HH since 3U and Nether Sinphony just had an amazing sound, I loved it.
This video was made before Sunbreak released. I don't think any of your feelings are necessarily invalidated by the additions to horn in Sunbreak, but I do think it's only fair to accurately recognize and at least respect the new identity of horn, which in my opinion really takes shape in Sunbreak, with the addition of things like Silkbind Shockwave and Sonic Bloom. In line with your statement about non-Rise hunting horn being a weapon about queueing up notes and playing songs, I feel that Rise hunting horn is about damaging monsters with sound waves. They essentially took the Sonic Wave melody from Iceborne and made it the entire weapon. Recitals, Silkbind Shockwave, Infernal Melody, and Sonic Bloom (horn's best wake-up option) all damage with a Sonic Wave type attack, which ignores hitzone values. Silkbind Shockwave provides a self-buff that adds the sonic shockwave effect to all attacks, which really adds to the impact and feel of everything. The Silkbind Shockwave silkbind attack can be used reactively with the monsters' attacks as an armored dodge of sorts, and it chains into Infernal Melody (the spinny attack which is the equivalent of the left trigger / Echo attack from world), which I believe, when performed with the shockwave buff, is the highest burst of damage hunting horn has. Infernal Melody + Silkbind Shockwave is, at least so far, my favorite attack in Monster Hunter, it feels so good to land every hit.
I don't think you're wrong to feel how you do but I just don't think your characterization of Rise hunting horn is very charitable.
This is why i love both hunting horns, we have right now. If i wanna go for heavy slamming with well times buffs I play World and if i wanna breakdance on a monsters face at high speed I'll go play Rise. Wilds showed off that HH will be weighty and feel heavy again which is great because my preference will always go to World weapons.
GenU improved accessibility to weapons across the board thanks to hunting styles making up for some weapon drawbacks, but I still think it did hunting horn the best and is the one game where I enjoyed playing hunting horn over other options
When I finally gave it a try in Iceborne, I couldn't put it down. I obsessed and grinded to get every one of them, and would make a dozen builds for the horns I liked most. In rise, I tried it for a decent chunk of Village quests, and had to put it away. It's got a weird feeling of "I'm doing damage, but I'm not having fun".
In Warhammer 40k, many people will say "play what makes you happy. Playing an army because it's 'meta' will be only leave you burned out and lacking once it leaves the meta spot" and I feel that's exactly what HH is going through right now, it's trying to be meta when it SHOULD just try to be fun again
I honestly don’t expect most of what we see in Rise to appear in the next Mainline MH game which is good to know for old HH mains! The devs are probably aware of the amount of love the old HH play style
I mean Rise is just a lot faster overall and not giving the horn some sort of compensation for that would mean it gets completely left behind. Trust me when I say you would not like fighting Mizutsune or Almudron with old hunting horn
It used to be a rewarding and kinda complex weapon, now its braindead. It used to feel like a giant, hefty hammer, now it feels like a rotten branch, hollow inside and thus very lightweight.
I like Rise's speed and fluidity... but they've sacrificed too much of the HH's identety in the process as it was a more thought-based weapon where you had to think what is the perfect time to perform your moves and positioning was quite important. Rise's HH is more of a mindless endeavor where you just do attacks and watch numbers go high without having to think. I'm also miffed about Rise's HH greatly losing the melody aspect that previous games had where you actually played songs.
It became a lot more action oriented in exchange for becoming bland and losing it's identety.
Even if i agree with you about how losing recital and encore, and simplified the note system is now butchered HH's identity, i like the new moves more, they feel like the hunter is dancing si i think it goes well with the weapon. For me, pefect HH would be Rise moveset with Iceborne note system.
Used to dance in rythm with the hunting horn in older games....In rise its a button mash stick that makes sounds like those electric saxophones for kids.
This is exactly what I feel about the GS and LS in games that came after 4U. GS got the shoulder bash which lets you super armor through almost any attack, and the LS gives you the extremely forgiving counter. These two weapons used to be all about positioning (unless you had evasion), but have now become very forgiving timing weapons that require way less skill IMO.
Oh my fucking gods.
World had a perfect hunting horn I was in perfect harmony with my damage and my music.
I thought I was ride or die with the hunting horn but I hate rise hunting horn so much I just can't.
They massacred my boy
I disagree hunting horn may be more damage focused(because that is what it needed), but it still retains the wait and punish playstyle.
As far as the song and stuff, sure it sucks that it's gone, but I'd rather it be more viable in combat than more viable in dooting.
Part of the reason that the song system is better is because of opportunity cost of playing the songs in older games. You had to squander your opening to play the songs when you could have just gotten the hunt overwith and now the stun you have built up on the monster is slowly degrading.
Personally, the way I would have went about it is to either improve the framedata or motion values and make playing songs less commital(being able to cancel songs with a roll). That way you could better play songs during the monster's "turn" of attacks so you could seize openings by attacking.
I think I agree with you here. Great video discussion, the bias did not actually detract from your analysis and elaborations since you make a mostly objective observation while explaining its subjective repercussions. The Rise Hunting Horn is indeed a departure from its predecessors, similarly to most if not all of the weapon types in Rise, and can be seen as part of the total reflection of Rise as a whole within the franchise. Rise is much more action oriented and faster paced, which is a different experience that might put off veteran players, just like how Rise Hunting Horn puts you off here. On an unrelated note, that Velkhana Horn sounds absolutely beautiful, makes me wanna buy Iceborne and replay World.
I was initially on a MonHun hiatus ever since I got burnt out on World during the Kulve Taroth siege, but I never played Iceborne. My friend got me Rise and him, myself and another friend began playing, and I initially thought "I was a Hunting Horn enjoyer in the past, and it got super buffed in Rise, I should play that," and said as much to them too. I did and immediately got thrashed both from overall Kushala level rust and it just felt different. That, and the same thing happening with Charge Blade, my other favorite weapon from 4U and World, put me off a lot, hurt my enthusiasm to play a good bit at the time and I honestly felt kind of ashamed to suck with it. Fast forward a few weeks, I've gotten over my rust mostly and I'm really feeling the monhun spirit now, although I'd become a Gunlance enthusiast in the process (yay Blast Dash). I even went as far as to download an emulator and play MH3U for the first time, and that brought back the old feelings and nostalgia from playing the older generations. I played mainly Gunlance at first but soon began using Hunting Horn as well to have an Impact weapon. Dude, it felt like being home again coming back to the old Hunting Horn. In the past I liked the weapon conceptually but wasn't completely game smart enough to fully use, understand and really appreciate the weapons aside from hit monster, try to dodge, etc, but here I felt truly competent and able to understand both the what and the how of it, I even got good hunt times with it against tanky guys like Duramboros. It just clicked; I can more easily remember songs, I can tell when and where to perform while actually remaining engaged with the monster safely (mostly) w/o feeling the need to commit to encores unnecessarily or flee far away to perform, and I've even been able to handle the lack of Maestro and the times when my songs fall off w/o getting clapped. To be fair, though, I don't have a library of horns yet, been maining Black Coffin while I've been going back and forth between point hunts, village and port, so I mainly know screamy box noises. I have been making sure to return to Rise every now and then, and I even made the Magnamalo Horn and upgraded it once to feel it out again. That old experience definitely translated well enough, but it brought that feeling that you have iterated in your discussion; it feels stronger, sure, but the weapon feels too light, too fast and rather spammy, indeed just like an impact flavored Dual Blades. Echo mode further exacerbates this with being able to queue single notes and churning them out as full songs. The spinning and dancing, while musical and fun to watch, doesn't feel like Hunting Horn anymore but instead some other equally cool, faster musical weapon. Could you imagine if Rise incorporated a mildly touched up old gen Hunting Horn that enhanced the oomph and heaviness of its swings like you proposed but also created a new music weapon as its sibling centered on dances like the Shakalakas? A HH and this dancer idea paired up and stacking song and dance together as a buff tag team would be so cool.
What makes me the saddest about rise horn is how it forces you into certain follow ups
Every single game prior you could follow a one swing with any other swing, the only thing you couldn't do was repeat swings. This, with weapons reach and wide sweeps made it engaging to position yourself for that perfect angle on the monster's head at all times. Being locked into certain actions just takes so much freedom and variety out of the second-to-second gameplay of the weapon.
it's like my thoughts put into a video, thank you for this
I truly relate to this video and agree with your feelings on rise horn so I wanted to leave my personal experience with it here :)
I got world back in 2020 to play with my partner, I adored the game to death and had progressed up to Deviljho while using a variety of weapons through out, mostly Longsword and Greatsword as my Go-to's, but since Deviljho had one of each I saw it as an opportunity to try more of the others, first I wanted to try out the horn since I believe it was the only weapon I hadn't tried even atleast once before.
Slowly as I toyed around with it I absolutely fell in love, the aesthetic combined with the moveset felt perfect, I've never loved a fictional weapon as much as I do the horn, in a game filled with swords and hammers, they took this real life hunting tool and turned it from a novelty to an actual weapon to hunt and fight with, it perfectly captured the aesthetic of everything Monster Hunter is and shaped what it meant to me.
During the same time I dabbled with GU a bit and I loved horn there too, I would watch videos about the past games and see how each generation they would upgrade it slowly, it seemed like every addition flew into the next perfectly from game to game, then World came and man they knocked it out of the park. The positioning and movement capabilities, the unique songs as you mentioned, the queue and the new sound based attacks which did a wonder for it's aesthetical appeal in my opinion.
As Rise was announced and I was beyond hyped I couldn't bare my excitement, knowing the person who invented the horn in the first place was directing it + they were gonna make it so you can choose what attack to do when you unseathed, it all seemed perfect! The trailer dropped and they seemed to be adding more sound attacks! Everything I wanted was coming true and the continuous evolution of the horn seemed to go by uninterpreted, until I played the demo itself.
I remember feeling as if something was missing, as if I didn't fully understand it and I remember saying to my partner in confusion that they removed recital? That's how it felt, like something wasn't clicking. I was very genuinely was bummed but still excited to give the game a try!
Rise came and went and I just became further disappointed, I could continue to reiterate all the points you brought up about why it's so different and how it feels like they took out the soul but there's no need really.
I do wanna add as a final thing that eventually I grew to like Rise horn, in it's own way it's special and I think has merit but although I enjoy it and learned to like it my disappointment still hasn't waned. I can only hope they return it to how it used to be but even so I'll still probably play it anyhow, I'm too attached :P
I still wholly believe that if one of the possible intention was to try give a blunt weapon a faster speed for players who didn't want to use the "slow" blunt weapons then Capcom honestly should just port over Tonfas already
The sad thing is that we already HAD a fast blunt weapon that can buff the party (debuff the monster) in frontier, the TONFA.
I know many people don't like a lot of stuff that frontier made but the Tonfa where really cool and should be in the main line of Monster Hunter.
But sadly I don't think we will ever see that happen and the weapon will be forever lost in a game you cant even play anymore.
1:48 I like the Jjo horn. It sounds like the cow noise maker when you tip it around.
Honestly, the best thing about Rise's hunting horn is the performance attack speed. No longer you have to stay locked into an animation for 3 or more seconds to make use of your weapons main feature, playing songs- The thing that I hated about previous iterations of the horn, was how after queueing notes you had to stand still for several seconds to get the songs to go off. MHW rewarded you with exhaust damage if you managed to perform next to the enemy, as playing songs would cause your horn to blast a shockwave as it played. But the animation was so long you could only use it safely in very sparce moments and made "corner dooting" a reasonable strategy.
With a quicker performance you are less punished for aggressive use of performance and you can get quite the damage out of it too.
I totally agree with this video. I am a Bow main but HH is my 2nd love. What I really loved about the MHGU and MHWI was how methodical I had to be to use it. You not only have to consider which move to use based on how youre angled to from the montser or how you predict the monster is gonna move. But you also have to know if the string if move/notes youre gonna use can que up a song to either reapply the buff or do extra damage when you do a recital. I agree, the Rise horn is more of a blunt dual blades which is fast and uunga boonga. BRING BACK GU OR WI HH PLEASE CAPCOM!
HH was a weapon I never truly mained but had a certain soft spot for, RISE HH isn't "bad" perse but it just feels like a different weapon.
At the same time, Rise's HH is clearly superior to the older one in terms of actual strength.
The old HH was definitely more unique, but also had very few people playing it. Rise got a lot of people to play horn for the first time.
Got a lot more people playing a completely different weapon yeah.
rises HH is NOT HH. they're missing out on a very fun and rewarding weapon and they dont even know it, and most people that pick it up will most likely drop it and think its boring forever bc of it.. thats pretty sad imo.
I think my favorite hunting horn even though I've never played the weapon at all is the Basarios Rock, as someone eho loves guitar, bass, and heavy metal. Its perfect, it sounds perfect, and it looks beautiful
So as I was watching I could relate to what you were saying as a person who loved but couldn't get into HH in GU didn't like it in world, and loved the trailer but immediately lost interest in it in rise once I started using it. I do love the fluid move set of the weapon but agree that it lacks the feel of weight, and also feel the lack of proper song lists and performances takes away any complexity that the weapon had.
If they slowed the weapon slightly, buffed the motion values slightly, and brought back double notes, encores, and song lists; while retaining the improved fluidity of the new moveset, I personally think it would be a far more satisfying weapon
Rise Hunting Horn feels more like a Hunting Flute. My first Monster Hunter game was MHGU and I only picked up the Hunting Horn because I thought it was a support weapon and I wanted to ease one of my friends into hunts by being able to support them a bit, I quickly realized that playing Hunting Horn was the equivalent of apotheosis, not in the MMO way of I decide who to heal but in the MH way of I can buff attack, defense, and health and still do damage. I don't consider the Hunting Horn a solely support weapon but it still has support capabilities, the Rise Horn hardly even feels like it has support capabilities. It's like the difference between a self buff and a party buff, it just doesn't carry the same weight. In MHGU and Worldborne I was able to do so much and now I get three melodies in exchange for a weapon that flows beautifully, and don't get me wrong the Rise Horn does flow beautifully but it's not impactful, to put it in music terms Rise Horn feels like the prelude of the first of Bach's Six Suites, beautiful but while I do love it it doesn't have a huge impact whereas the Hunting Horn proper feels like Holst's "Mars, Bringer of War", quite a bit more grand. I don't know if that made sense to anyone but I suppose it doesn't really matter I just wanted to get my opinion out there. Btw if anyone is wondering I play the Viola, Euphonium, Sing(Baritone), and the Bass Guitar.
I like how your imagine section is just full of stuff that some players absolutely do want and cream their pants just thinking about.
this really is like if they took lance and in order to make a fundamentally very niche weapon more universally appealing, made it so that every guarded attack is a counter and was sped up by 100%
sure, lance autocountering every attack with a quick retaliation and high damage would make it good, and it'd make it more universally appealing, but it spoils the entire REASON people like me are drawn to the lance.
oh wait THEY DID THAT IN RISE
I pretty much agree. I have played HH a bit since p3rd, though I think I never played HH in 4u. I think the base world HH was the best iteration with encore. You had to load up a song and then play it twice. It looked stylish and felt good when you landed the hits. I think iceborne already meddled with this feeling adding the spin, because spin was basically on command fast and a lot of damage attack. IIRC elemental crit builds on HH were crazy in iceborne.
I don't hate Rise's HH, but it really lacks that oomph of older games, with the exception of earthshaker. But I hope the next MH game after Sunbreak goes back to base world style. The spin can be there again but it should be after recital/encore or something. The full encore combo being the biggest damage combo just makes more sense to me, because as I said you had to build and set it up.