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Adding on to this, in-universe, Daria is regularly pegged as being anti-social and condescending, and in earlier episodes of Avatar, Sokka was kind of a jerk. They were both saved by two elements; first, they both had clear reasons for the attitudes they started out with, and second, they both eventually got better as their characters developed.
That's honestly the series I thought she probably should have rebooted Daria would have been a lot closer to what she was trying to do. It aint even there she to go on too far. Ask for whether to continue with this I think they'd made this into too much of a dumpster fire at this point. If you're gonna recreate an existing IP you can't twist it that far. You've got to remember there are fans that are gonna want to come and watch and they're not gonna like it when you completely throw out all of their characters.
@@solvseusParadise PD has terrible animation. Velma is surprisingly decent. Paradise PD are made by the same people who did Brickleberry, which explains everything on that show.
There's a difference between cynical and unpleasant, and Velma doesn't understand this. Every character is unlikable, the show has a pretentiousness to it, and it has the weird sense to say "It's not a big deal that our characters are race swapped, and you're the problem for bringing it up" and then go out of it's way to make race based jokes.
The funny thing is she has more in common with Fred than Velma, came from a rich family rich, never worked a part time job, pampered and studied in the best schools. 😂
@mania4270 the problem is that they are using ethnicities as profit and shields for their shitty writing to say "Oh! If you hate it then you're racist!" Instead of ACTUALLY making proper representation. At this point just make new characters with new plots and situations. But that requires creativity and Mindy has barely any of it 🙄
Harley Quinn was an excellent example of having comedic commentary and breaking down franchise tropes, while still having likeable characters and a compelling story. Velma missed out on those last two.
Harley Quinn did that but it also played off the villains being more than just the menacing villain and playing off their back stories or just quirky angles. Clayface still working the frustrated actor bit,King Shark with his family issues but also just wanting to kick back with a movie night or video games with the crew,Catwoman playing off Selina's on off thing with Bruce Wayne or Bane's obsession with the wedding gift for the failed Ivy Kiteman wedding.
i love how the writing on velma really acts like it's doing something groundbreaking and original, and you pull a clip from a mid 90s sitcom that sums up their entire shtick in one go
I love how, scrolling through these comments, everyone has a different take on what the show screwed up. A few get close to each other, bit ultimately everyone feels personally attacked by this show, or that there's this particular reason they find it's universally un-funny or insulting. That's a special kind of incompetence to create so many flavours of bad in one terrible show.
If you want to watch a Scooby show that is mature, changes characters for the better while staying true to the source material, & stylish animation, watch Mystery Incorporated
The only thing that could save the show is if Velma started out horribly but becomes gradually more likeable. Like thats the only saving grace this show has, and maybe make Fred grow up more to be a leader
Honestly yeah, I think Japan is more likely to make a faithful adaptation of a western cartoon (probably a better mature series too) See Powerpuff Girls Z for example. Its not perfect but at least it is not disrespecting the original.
@@globurimPowerpuff girls Z was a little TOO different from the original and felt like Astro Boy meets Sailor Moon lol but again, I’d rather watch that unique mess than the comedic bully Velma is
Velma is trying to be the Harley Quinn Cartoon with Scooby-Doo characters but is forgetting why people like the Harley Quinn Cartoon: Its funny, has likeable characters and despite its comedic tone has alot of great character and story development.
Harley Quinn feels the writers actually knew what they were doing and actually were aware about what made Harley a good character meanwhile Velma is a self insert for Mindy to say whatever she wants
Also while I've not seen either show, I think Harley Quinn has an advantage in that its characters are in the original source material VILLAINS. That allows for a lot more freedom in how they're interpreted.
Also, the characters actually like one another and have meaningful and compelling relationships. No one in this version of Mystery Inc likes each other.
Exactly that. It has flow, timing, even when cynical, snarky, or causes a response, laughter, pain, it makes you feel something How did the people behind this, miss the point by a mile? 🤦
I'm just happy you brought up Scooby Apocalypse. It's such a bizarre comic (like all of the Hanna-Barbera Beyond stuff DC was doing at the time), but it is also one of my favourite experiments done with the series' formula, and made its action horror vibe work really well while keeping everyone pretty recognizable. I wish we got an adaptation of that as our first "Scooby for adults" cartoon over Velma.
Both Scooby Apocalypse and Mystery Incorporated are proof that you can update this characters while not making them too unrecognisable. Granted Apocalypse tweaked a lot of traits, but they were basically the same people we've known
The problem is that the character of Velma Dinkley was changed not to update to a modern era but to become Mindy Kaling's self insert. At least in "I am not Starfire" comic the author Mariko Tamaki's self insert Mandy (daughter of Starfire) was an original character; a terrible self-insert original character but still original. Mindy Kaling has appropriated the character Velma Dinkley to be her self-insert mouth piece, and that my opinion is worse.
@@sugartoothYT That's the issue. A character as non problematic as Velma doesn't need updating and if you think it does, it means you never gave the source material a chance to stand on its value because you never bothered to seek value in it when you started adapting it. Your baseline was Scooby Doo is an outdated property that I can make better but you never actually sought to find what was good about it in the first place. You just thought you knew better from the start. Narcissism at it's finest
Thing is, there's already an updated version of Velma and the whole Scooby gang: *Mystery Incorporated* they updated the characters, gave them (or revamped their) personalities while you could still recognise the core traits of each character. This? I have no idea what this "show" Velma is but it's neither Scooby or a good cartoon.
The mistake these shows keep making is they think it's funny to just be a horrible person without any reason or purpose. I'd honestly blame 'Rick & Morty' for starting it, which was a VERY mean-spirited series (whether you like it or not, you have to agree with that statement), but it's jokes worked because you saw the kind of things the characters dealt with which explained why they were so miserable and angry about everything. To quote one of my favourite comedians: 'life is hard, and it makes you hard too, but you can make it better by being funny'. The problem with shows like 'Velma' and even with the 'Harley Quinn' series (at times) is that they don't get that, they think you can just be an asshole and people will love it because 'being a terrible person is great'. Hence why we now have this bitter, cynical, mean-spirited and downright miserable show taking jabs at everyone it feels deserves it without any reason other than 'we're assholes', because as said before, they think that that's excuse enough to act that way, when it isn't. Good cynical comedy is saying 'life sucks, doesn't it? Let's have a laugh at it because it's the only thing we can do apart from cry'. 'Blackadder' knew this and was DELIGHTFULLY cynical, with the main character being a powerless person stuck catering to spoiled, out-of-touch and mad people who couldn't run a bath properly, never mind a country / army. Bad cynical comedy is sulking in the corner just saying 'fuck you and everything about you'. There's no reason to it other than just being mean-spirited and hateful, which, shockingly, IS NOT FUNNY.
At least it makes sense why Harley Quinn would use those mean spirited jokes, the main cast are villains and can be somewhat annoyed by a certain member’s traits, like how their annoyed at Clayface’s over acting or how Harley is too impulsive. Essentially it’s a roast where each party has a valid point. But in Velma, it seems she can’t go 5 minutes belittling everyone around her in order to make her feel better about herself. Hell she legitimately thought telling everyone that Daphne going to the school shrink to help with her mental health would be so humiliating it would turn her into a social outcast. But instead the students rationally further supported Daphne and further alienated Velma.
Rick and Morty take jabs at the meaning of being human and part of a vapid society, not shallow things like race or gender, they literally gloss over those narratives in favor of abstracts that go beyond being a merely self aware being. It at least that's how they started. Velma is just the most shallow kind of high school criticism with short sighted interpretations of human interaction, Shallow problems for shallow people.
The earliest show I can think of where everyone was just horrible to each other was Married with Children, though it was taking the piss out of a lot domestic and economic problems families were (/are) facing and the main characters had basically just given up trying to have better lives.
What I liked about the older Scooby Doo shows was the fact the humor usually spoke for itself or had some silliness, for example Scooby and Shaggy use to defy the laws of physics like Scooby flying in the werewolf episode with trash can lids or both he and Shaggy somehow managed to hide inside a tv during the Ghost Of Hyde episode.
What I've seen is that the part of all this that upsets people the most is that a show like this was given the green light in the midst of multiple new shows getting cancelled as tax write-offs before they even get a chance to be made. We absolutely want new shit but we can't get it because it's all getting canned and this is all that's left over. A show that thinks it's above its audience and is almost constantly mocking us for it.
They've even all but deleted established shows like #FinalSpace. It was on for 3 seasons and they not only can it but scrub it from all platforms. You can still watch some episodes but there's a bunch missing so there's no point
I really respect how you’re saying what a lot of people are thinking and feeling without really taking a side, because I’ve always believed being good isn’t about being on “the right side”, but about the choices we make as individuals. And you’ve always said that yourself, I think. I respect that.
Same, I'm so tired of people thinking that because of the extreme left ruining media, then that means that the right is the right way to go. No, both are insane extremes and it shows even with what the Critic said about movies like God's Not Dead. I believe in God, but wow is this a terrible movie that makes him look bad and is obviously just right-leaning propaganda (much like how Velma is blatant left-leaning propaganda). I miss the days when people were actually artists who probably wanted to say something, but above politics were storytelling and morality. The morality of simply being human, of understanding yourself and others and their flaws. And if you wanted to instill change, it was done through empathy. Have someone stand in your shoes who normally wouldn't. But now no, it's sticking to your own lane and judging everyone by race and political leaning. Nowadays it's, pick a side and if you're not on my side then you're racist, then you're woke, or this and that.
@@obie-1309 it’s not about what you do or believe anymore, it’s about being on the right side of history. Well, the people who typically are, are the people who just want people to get along and don’t try and tell others what they should and shouldn’t think.
You think its "good" to horde trillions of dollars? you think its "good" to prop up dying industries like coal in the face of constant weather disasters? you think its "good" to refuse to increase minimum wage and for millennials and Gen Z be the first generation in DECADES to be worse off than their parents? to remove medical care? to constantly raise the retirement age? The right and moderate "leftists" distracts you with stupid discussions about TV shows and weaponized nostalgia so you can't see the real world issues the ACTUAL left wants you to see. You want to know what an actual left-wing show looks like, look at Andor. THAT is what the real left cares about.
@@DramoolVecone I hate to cut in, but anyone that uses the phrase "the right side of history" doesn't understand history. It doesn't have a side. If it has a pattern, it's more like the Eastern view of history as being cyclical rather than the Western view of linearity. Name a topic and I can show you how it constantly changes over time, never settling on one thing permanently. Even what you said here is incorrect. Those people that just want to get along cease to exist as relevant actors because they DON'T act one way or the other.
I think another problem is that they don’t use anything related to Scooby Doo. Harley Quinn uses their characters and lore in a funny, adult way. Velma resets the lore completely and the focus is on irreverent, contrived plotlines not related to mysteries.
I think that Scooby-Doo is a property that has very little flexibility for the personalities of the main cast. If they don't act in pretty specific ways with specific mannerisms, they become mostly unrecognizable. Like their personalities can be expanded upon and made more complex, but not really changed without losing the thing that makes them that character in the first place.
People hate to admit it, but these characters mostly boil down to a bunch of quirks and gimmicks, because that’s how the original shows made them iconic. Shaggy likes food and runs away from danger, Velma loses her glasses and is clever etc. etc. Later shows could feel free to expand on these things, but the moment you remove these weirdly-specific quirks/gimmicks the essence of the character is lost because that’s what defines them to the mass public
yeah I saw ppl who didn't like velma's character in mystery incorporated, not only bc of her romance w/ shaggy but how they made her all snarky. I'm sure that was done to make her stand out more/add to the group dynamic but whether ppl liked or disliked it, a lot of ppl said "this doesn't feel like velma". the characters were just too stuck in their ways for too long to go the "super different interpretation" route now w/o ticking some ppl off
Absolutely spot on. And for this kind of "look look, a character you recognise is doing something OUT-of-character!" humour to work, you kinda need to play the other elements of it pretty straight.
Nitpick: There are Luigi, Yoshi, Peach and Toad games, and even a game called Mario is Missing, but even there Mario usually pops up or is an important part. Except Wario games which are their own weird thing, and even then Wario is pretty much “weird Mario.”
Absolutely true. It's like having the same shitty school "lunch" again and again and again, and then the school wondering why no one wants lunch. Also, your take on the characters' relationships is gold, but to me, they're a polycule. They all love each other, but in different ways and that's perfect. Scooby gets to be the spoiled fur baby with two moms and two dads.
I think most people hate Velma because it feels like the writers are writing a scooby doo based show, that hates scooby doo. (The Shows, not the dog. Maybe the dog too who knows.) It’s almost like they were writing an original show and were forced to make it scooby doo related.
I was honest to God NOT expecting Doug to make a video on the Velma show. One of my biggest problems with this show is that it DOESN'T feel like a Scooby-Doo project! When you look back on the other incarnations of Scooby-Doo, you can at least still tell that the charm and the formula are still there, but they can still experiment with it. Scooby-Doo is a lot like Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, where this show will reinvent itself MULTPLE TIMES, and some will either love or hate it, but the majority of the time, people like most of the incarnations. But when you don't have the charm that has been in this franchise for 54 YEARS, you ain't gonna get something good.
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 EXACTLY!!! But honestly, this show would've been better off as a standalone, original project and not tie in to Scooby-Doo.
The mom flashbacks made me genuinely laugh. But the drug deal gag has been done to death. I wasn't expecting the real mom flashbacks. But as soon they did a drug dealing montage, I was like, oh she's probably going to sell drugs to either her father, or Sophie. But during the montage, I was like wait Sophie's pregnant: dad.
This is a very good way of describing everything as neutrally as possible while also being aware of what’s the shows goal was. I love Nostalgia’s way of saying things
I like how people who stick up for it always go for the "You hate it because the characters are minorities, you're racist." Like naw g, I hate it because they took a scooby dooby dump on a beloved franchise and the people behind it know absolutely nothing about what makes an animated show good.
My issue with race and gender swap is that it usually is mixed with sacrificing character or plots for the narrative. It sucks cause I know it can be done as long as you keep the core aspects of the character.
Finally! Somebody else who gets it! I don’t mind the “inclusiveness” itself, but if you’re gonna replace an already beloved or well-known character for that effort… there’s a good chance that you’re going too far. My only assumption of why they still do this is that maybe it’s cheaper to LITERALLY change an important (and perhaps even popular) character than to add another new character to the main roster?
I don’t agree You shouldn’t change an established character at all If you want a bunch of non white characters, quit being cheap, do what you used to have to do and make new ones
@@spenserfarthing3898 Yeah, I don't agree either. Race swapping is the "in" thing, only out of some arbitrary obligation for inclusivity - but it adds nothing substantial, especially to beloved characters. And trust me, as someone who was born crippled, I sure as hell hope we don't move onto "ambulation swapping" where the same characters are now in wheelchairs for some reason.
Ppl are waaaay to sensitive to race swapping. Maybe b/c as a poc and being older I’ve seen it done too many characters who were real ppl and they’re made white and I’m just like 🤷🏾♂️. It’s just a show no one cares really. With that being said the show is a mess for a multitude of reasons
@@jaketheman091 Yeah, I do agree. Race swapping is only serving to give a 'different personality and different scenarfios to the same character traits'. that can be funny. A disabled superman might actually be funny and insightful at the same time. but when its done badly it's terrible.
I think the secret is in the title. "Velma" is about the unreliable narration of an angsty teenage version of Velma, seeing all of these characters and situations through her teen-colored eyes. That could be good if the writing just wasn't so bad. Maybe if the show follows how these characters slowly change into actual human beings as her perception of them and her world change it could be good, but I don't think they plan to travel that route.
@@davidbanner7804 season one kind of setup how it's probably going to happen with the whole brain switching thing. The project was called SCOOBI, I'm honestly looking forward to season 2, when the gang is together the show gets better. Velma being horrible is a lot more tolerable when she's getting called out by the others
'you know this isn't the worst show ever, but the reason you want to call it that is because its a pattern that youre getting sick off' brilliant bit of wisdom there Doug
That's what I thought too. It's not the worst thing, but the final straw that broke everyone's back. People noticed the pattern. This "post modern", " meta" writing style is getting old.
Who is claiming that Velma is the worst show ever? It isn't. But that doesn't make it any better. It is still the worst show I've seen in a long time. Even (very) left-leaning shows like the Rings of Power have some entertaining (for instance the totally absurd ones) moments for me personally. I watched She-Ra and Masters of the Universe. Without the pattern of left-leaning 'woke' elements, those are decent shows (mostly She-Ra though). She-Hulk, Wheel of Time and Velma aren't entertaining.
@@gwenwalravens8030 I don't know why anyone is calling this woke. Libs hate it too. It's more like they used the race swapping and gay baiting just to make all sorts of lazy jokes that are just racist, homophobic, and misogynist without the social commentary. Last Of Us is actually woke, but it tells a good story well. She-Hulk was just bad, and I say that as a fan of the earlier comics.
I like this format. It allows Doug to just quickly jump in with minimal editing and put down interesting opinions on current matters at hand as far as film and animation. This could also be a solution to his past admittance that sometimes he doesn't cover things because he isn't sure he has much to say. What he has to say sometimes might not be enough for a fully written, fully edited video of something, but using a format like this, it's great.
Format is ok, but Doug making up positives in a show he hated is so dishonest its baffling. Really "maybe the writers could do better"? Who cares if they could do better, they didnt.
@@googleslocik You think its dishonest to look things objectively and not just repeating the same "all of this sucks" mantra? Like the said, he found few jokes that were funny even tho the show overall is very disappointing, hence writers could potentially make something funny.
@@villekorhonen824 No i think its dishonest to put in "what ifs" into what supposed to be a honest opinion over a show. You review the show as it is, not as what it "could be", any show has potential to be good, so such rambles are pure dishonest manipulation. Hard to not get the impression Dough is trying to dodge the controversial take by taking an extremely safe and weird position. The animation, writing and acting is on top of all the other problems. Between the racist race swapping, sexualization of minors in the show, racist Indian and black stereotypes, the pedophilic history of Mindy Kaling, removing of scooby, the constant body shaming, the story and tone changes the animation having nice looking 3 seconds is literally the last thing one expect to be said. Like how did Dough not spend time addressing how its not a episodic mystery show with a talking dog anymore? So busy dodging what people are talking about he forgot to even mention why people hated it even before the debut. I guess the creators plan worked, some reviewers are afraid to talk how truly awful this show is, at lest this time it was a small minority.
@@googleslocik he stated at the beginning of the video he didn't want to repeat what plenty of others have said. If you wanted a video complaining about how there's no scooby, there a million other videos addressing that. He simply wanted to say what his thoughts were without beating a dead horse.
@@britaingray5400 Yes, and he went right into repeating every fake positive everybody who dosnt want to touch this show with a stick will say. If he wanted to actually say something people are afraid to mention how about the pedophilia in the show? But i guess its a forbidden word on youtube when it comes to monetization so its a no go. But no point even discussing it, Dough didnt want to get into anything controversial and its up to him, but its not honest.
Me and the wife tried watching this. I made it to about half way into the first episode and just couldn't go on. The fact that anyone can get past the first episode is amazing to me.
I think people don’t give you enough credit. You’ve definitely improved to becoming a genuine, well-rounded reviewer with nuance and self-awareness. I’ve been watching your show for years now and it’s great to see such positivity in an ocean of bitter discourse. Cheers, Doug Walker- 🍻
One thing I’ve seen a lot of is how people are ripping on Velma for how they handle people going through panic attacks. Especially how Velma calms down from panic attacks. So far, it’s laughing at Norville for spilling his heart out and embracing Daphne making out with her.
Yeah, it's messed up tbh. Velma's a horrible person here Edit: For the Norville thing. It's fine that she was attracted to Daphne. Velma's always given those vibes
I kind of don't like that. It trivializes the severity of those who have experienced these things as well as just making Velma look bad. I doubt they would make half way decent night terrors. So far Owl House and Puss in Boots 2 showcases panic attacks correctly.
@@_the_rizzler it’s not Velma being a lesbian, it’s that you really should attempt to kiss someone who is going through a panic attack. Also to add, Mindy sounds like she is making fun of people going through panic attacks.
Part of my problem with shows like this, particularly with things like the pointless changing of characters just to "make a statement" is that they always feel like they hurt whatever they're trying to "speak for" than they help it. They tend to focus so much on the message they're trying to convey that they end up creating a bad product, which in turn makes audiences, (myself included, admittedly), more hesitant and cynical towards any product that changes things like a character's race, gender, sexuality, etc. This ends up breeding more distaste for the cause than support, and also leads the people who support said causes to take a "you're with us or against us" mentality and blame racism/sexism/etc for people not liking changes, rather than accepting that sometimes people just don't like a bad product. I hate to say it, but the moment I saw that they were changing the character's races for this show, I was immediately annoyed because I knew it meant they were trying to make a statement rather than create something entertaining. I wish I had been proven wrong.
Whenever movies and shows have it that the heroine is the only competent one, never fails, and all the men are idiots, it feels like Hollywood is saying 'we think women can only be good when the game is rigged in their favour'. When they take a well-known character and race/gender-swap them, it's like they're saying 'nobody will care about this person unless we slap a name they already know on them.' Miles Morales is well liked by Spider-Man fans, because they didn't just take all of Peter's traits and put them in a black man. They gave Miles his own personality, his own variant powers, and his own motivations. He did so well, they brought him into the main Marvel universe so he can work alongside Peter. But all that takes effort, and entertainment just doesn't want to put in any effort into anything anymore.
So they changed Velma from white to black? Risky and perhaps trying too hard to be progressive, but not the end of the world. Make her also an unlikeable character? Bold, but could still work. Make her a bad example of an unlikeable character and thus adding potentially problematic implications? Damn, now that's misguided execution at its finest.
The writers were so incompetent that they couldn't figure out how to incorporate Scooby-Doo in a mature setting. Even when it's literally been done in movies and in Supernatural or Venture Brothers. 🙄
WB wouldn’t let them use Scooby. They sort of accidentally revealed that in an interview awhile back. I’m sure because WB knew this was probably going to take a shit and didn’t want the actual dog in it.
@@Matthew.Wade27 At least Scooby and OG Shaggy were spared. (I don't consider Norville to be Shaggy, even if he shares his real name. Not because of the race swap necessarily, but they simply aren't even close to being the same characters or even variations. Daphne and Fred I guess too, but him in particular.)
In my opinion, no terrible reboot angers me more than Fate the Winx Saga. For one main reason: because at least most people know what franchises like Scooby Doo, Fantastic Four, Avatar the Last Airbender, The Powerpuff Girls, classic Disney movies and even Thundercats are and not what their reboots make them out to be. Not enough people know what Winx Club is because of either generational divide, people, usually adults, dismissing animation as a genre for kids, casual viewers not knowing which English dubs to choose from with most of them not being 100% accurate, Nickelodeon rebooting it as a badly written preschool show (even rerunning it on effing Nick Jr.) and now this show, presenting it to casual viewers as a badly written teen drama! I'll admit I feel bad for the casual fanbase since this show became yet another cancelhanger victim (cancelled on a cliffhanger) but besides them and other crew members who were just doing their job regardless of what show they're making, I feel no sympathy for no one. If anything good came out of it, is that introduced casual fans to the REAL Winx Club with the Rai English aka Cinelume dub or both Rai English dub and 4Kids dub since both have some great qualities.
The writers don't want to make a good show. They want to make their own show and force the audience to like it, making the audience dislike it even more, and then blame the audience for having their own opinions. It's the same with Disney Star Wars or now Marvel; if you don't like it, it's your fault because we're too perfect to make something bad.... until we realize it's bad 5 years later, then we'll still blame you because you didn't tell us sooner even though we didn't want listen to you
I like getting to hear Doug Walker. Nostalgia critic is funny and I watch them and enjoy them. But hearing Doug’s actual opinion, nuanced, intelligent, and not filtered through character acting is really nice. It’s good to hear an opinion that’s not entirely negative even though that would’ve been the gimme.
Same. My first impression of Doug from watching Nostalgia Critic was that he'd probably be a pretentious jerk and difficult to work with because of how over-the-top he was with yelling and negativity. But when you watch his chill videos like this, you realize he's nothing like that internet persona he adopts. He comes across as an incredibly nice, humble guy who's just a big nerd with a passion for cinema. I vastly prefer these off-the-cuff reviews to his scripted ones.
@@nintentrovert My mom has heard Nostalgia Critic on in the background and one time she said, "Omg, he's so obnoxious!" and she was a little put off but how negative he was. I kept having to assure her that no, the Critic is just a character, it's like a TV personality, the real Doug actually isn't that mean lol
@@Jack1994hoo Cats was really bad, but in an artsy way. It's like a painting that's technically done well, was very inspired, and had a lot of effort and talent behind it, but is also supposed to be incomprehensible in ways and make people ask questions that they didn't even know could be asked. Velma wishes it was Cats. They're both bad, but Cats succeeds in what it seems like it wants to do. Velma is just unpleasant.
Cats brought us a plague. I don't look forward to seeing what kind of calamity humanity will now need to endure as punishment for this atrocity of a show.
I like Cats 2019 movie, because its what furries wishes they could be like, so i always have it on DVD as a reminder of that realistic world : D. Humanoid but furry like. I mean its accurate
I think it is OK for a character to be mean-spirited, but it has to serve something. It has to be part of the overarching joke, serve as a catalyst for karmic happenings , provide a different lens, setup a redemption story. It can serve many things in many ways. But if you fail at having it serve something, if the character is just mean for the sake of it or worse: some misconception that mean alone equals funny. Then you just end up with the character being spiteful. And it very much feels like that applies on this show. That it lost sight of what you need to make it work and got blinded by wanting to say something for the sake of saying something.
You mean Preachy. Trying to be important, trying to save the world, acting like they have a leg up on how everything should be and you're the one falling behind and you need to catch up, thats Preachy.
Legit congrats to Doug. I’ve seen a lot of Velma impressions and his are by far the best, most thoughtful, fairest, and insightful opinions on this whole shitshow I’ve seen yet. Of course Velma is not the worst tv show of all time but man does it slaps you in the face with so much stupid crap we’ve grown tired of recently.
The fact that they completely destroyed Fred's character should tell you all you need to know about Velma. If they started to play off that Velma is a massive unlikeable narcissist, it still wouldn't fix the fact that Fred (who I always felt was the male carbon copy of Daphne) is the primary punching bag for the show's unfunny humor. The whole idea of the show is undermined by the fact that the amount of respect characters are given is almost directly proportional to where they sit on the privilege stack.
I would DEFINITELY recommend you to go ahead and watch all of Mystery Inc. if you haven't yet already, Doug. I'm not _necessarily_ a Scooby-Doo! aficionado, but I can not understate how amazing Mystery Inc. is. If ALL you know about it is its cynical nature and the Shaggy/Velma romance, you will be dumbfounded how incredible the show actually is. The overarching plot, the darker tone, the gang's personalities and dynamics... Super highly recommend anyone to check it out.
I'm surprised you didn't point out the other problem the show has that is a common pitfall in comedies nowadays: The audience-insulting writing. It's one thing to be meta. I love the Deadpool films, Monty Python & the Holy Grail, and even the Chip n' Dale movie partially for how they take potshots at common tropes in their genres. However, when you disregard the viewer's intelligence by letting a joke go on for too long or blatantly explaining it, that's infuriating to me. Not to mention that one line where Velma berates adults who watch animated content, which is hilarious un-self aware considering the show itself is a cartoon that adults watch.
"that one line where Velma berates adults who watch animated content, which is hilarious un-self aware considering the show itself is a cartoon that adults watch" -- Do you REALLY think they weren't aware of the irony, that they really forgot they were writing a cartoon?
Unfortunately, I don't think they were un-aware that they were insulting their audience; powers know, kids shouldn't be watching it for a variety of reasons. I think they just thought that insulting their own audience was funny, and said audience was so infatuated with believing themselves "above it all" that they would literally think they should only be insulted if they were the kind of people who would be insulted, if that makes any sense.
@ThreadBomb Usually, shows that mock the audience don't also mock themselves, unless there's a seething amount of hatred by the writers for everyone else.
Remember how in Venture Bros. The groovy gang was the Fred character essentially holding the gang hostage? Or how in Birdman Shaggy and Scooby were arrested under suspension of marijuana possession? Even the book Meddling Kids, where Scooby mirrored characters, stumble on a lovecraftian ritual and horrors. All that is a far better "adult" version of Scooby. And they all had Scooby. Even the porn parody did better
Second season already confirmed. Despite the critical reaction, HBOMax only had a goal of getting noticed with Velma, and they achieved that goal. Love or it hate it, we're eating out of the palm of their hand.
The comedy is this show explains the joke so often that I can't help but feel that the writers have no confidence in the audience understanding their writing.
Its NEVER a good sign when the writers think "oh, that was too subtle for my stupid audience. Maybe I should dumb it down to their level and explain my hilarious joke"
If I meet somebody who unironically finds Velma funny, I’m locking them in a room and making them watch Ryan Higa videos for a week to teach them what it is true comedy
Scooby-Doo emphasized the bond between four very different and unique individuals. This show succeeds in bringing together a community who loathes Mindy Kaling and Vermin Dorkley.
I feel like he almost got it right. The way I always saw it, Velma wants Daphne, Daphne wants Fred, Fred is in love with himself, and Scooby and shaggy just love food.
@@esparzacartoons2050Fred has consistently been a Daphne simp. She became a journalist, so he became her cameraman. If it's unrequited, it's almost certainly on Daphne's end.
This show is getting so much hate because EVERYONE hates it. Usually with shows like this it leans massively in one direction or another, but this show managed to do something hardly anything ever can. It made the left and right both agree that this is crap.
Santa Inc. started with a 1.1 rating and has since climbed to 1.6. Velma started with roughly 2.5 and has dropped to 1.3 in a week. That's highly impressive.
Okay Santa Inc was BAAAAD. And Seth Rogan is a horrible person. He literally said everyone who doesn't like the show is a white supremacist, and that is the reason the show was doing poorly. If people like that more than Velma, there's a problem...
I think this show has the same issue Allen Gregory did. It focused so much on being "edgy" at the expense of being funny. Not to mention they made the character Uber stereotypes, the smart one is Indian, the martial artist is East Asian, the pot smoker is black and the clean cut one is white "You're not breaking stereotypes, you're trading old ones for new ones" - TheMysteriousMrEnter Edit: yes I'm aware this Norville is against drugs. My point was that with all the memes and fan theories about Shaggy being a marijuana user it's notable that he's the one who was turned black
A bit surprise for me in 2022 was Orville's third season. The first two are... entertaining. A handful of good episodes, but nothing to get me too excited. But when I put on third season (intended as background noise), I was shocked how good the writing become. Yeah, the conversations are left leaning, but the characters are fleshed out, and story pacing went smoother. Even if I didn't agree with everything said, I cared for the characters and was engaged with the story. Like you were saying, I think we creators need to love our characters and their situations more than we love our own genius. If we put our ego before our darlings, then the story suffers.
Good comedy is one that isn't afraid to make fun of everyone, especially the main characters themselves . This is what made Sunny in Philadelphia good as opposed to Velma, which fails and just ends up being more mean spirited than funny
This is why I don’t like all that talk about how certain comedians aren’t funny because they “punch down”. Comedy isn’t about how you’re so smart and everyone who disagrees with you is either a bully or an idiot, it’s about reminding us not to take anything to seriously.
@@trollsomegaming4693 yeah but Fox isn’t forcing them to still make episodes, the creator didn’t check out years ago and people don’t only watch to complain.
I think that what they should have done with "Velma" is present it as a parody or an alternative take on the ScoobyDuniverse as a whole. Change the names to something close but different, riff on the tropes. I think what offends people the most is that the characters are presented as the original characters, who, despite having changed over the years, have a distinct core. The Venture Brothers did a very good parody of them one episode.
Same here. From what I've seen/read about it, it just looks TOO mean spirited. Also, it's not a Scooby Doo show OR a Velma show - it's a Mindy Kaling vehicle for her jokes and leanings, first and foremost.
Not gonna lie, I wanted to give this show a chance and one episode later, I wanted to drink, beat myself silly and touch substances that I would never even imagine doing before I'd ever again, just to prepare for the next episode AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL!!!
Sometimes i forget Doug's reviews/editorial style videos are really really good. I come and go from the Critic videos these days, but the serious straight forward reviews and video essay videos hold up really well.
I'm surprised how no one I've seen has brought up how all of the characters just outright reveal their motivations at the slightest provocation like they are giving an elevator pitch. It's like the writers wanted to make sure that everyone knew that these weren't just flat characters, but instead of showing us they just tell us. That is what I think is the worst part of the show: the poor, lazy writing.
Agreed. Like how Velma explains her oh so tragic back story to Fred with almost no set up. Or when Dannie started to explain her secret desire to find her birth family out of no where. Or Fred just explaining that he hasn’t started puberty yet to Velma after she found the slightest clue in his house. It all always just comes out of no where
I feel bad for the animators. They spent months if not a couple of years in the development of this show, and it was a complete WASTE OF TIME! This show maybe really bad and it's plot sucks, but, BUT, the animation and the people who had to make art out of this, deserve credit. I hope those animators go onto doing something much MUCH better than whatever this was.
A good thing not often talked about or over looked is the good character design. They all have clean lines and do look aesthetically pleasing. The problem is every single character has such a shit personality connected to it that nobody can stand sticking with them.
It’s sad because the show looks fine. Nothing outstanding true but nothing bad either. Hell, save for Shaggy, the gang match the originals in looks . It’s mostly everything else!
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 I really don't like the character design at all. its very blocky/dated feeling and all the characters glow in the dark for some reason with the lighting. I would have preferred a more artistic/fluid animation
That’s assuming that the animation was done in the states and not outsourced to like Japan or South Korea or the like, as that’s what happens with a lot of western cartoons.
My only real issue with the show was: 1. NO SCOOBY 2. It got in its own way of the story. It can give us the lesson as well as the story but the lesson should be secondary to a good story because a good story will teach you the lesson without you realizing it
Quite frankly the only reason this show exists is so that people will watch Mystery Incorporated since that's Velma when it's not being made by idiots.
Another part of this is that Warner Bros cut SO MANY shows and movies - particularly animation - but *this* is what they kept. Like, we couldn’t have that Scooby-Doo Christmas special (or whatever it was), but we get to keep Mindy Kaling’s vanity project. Sure. Okay. 🙄
Fun fact, the wikipedia article claims Daphne in this series is a descendant of Kenshin Himura. Yes THAT Kenshin. Idk if that will come up in the show but there you go
When you bring up George Carlin, something that he said that I don't see all that many people talk about is that he wanted to punch UP with his mean humour, and not down. Punching UP is always preferable to punching down.
I've been really poking into this show hard, watching lots of reactions and reviews, and honestly? This is the best piece I've seen on it so far. I think you hit the nail on the head, especially with the bit about 'the wall of protective bullshit'. I'd honestly love to see more of this as more Velma eps are released, because you seem to be getting right to the heart of why this show doesn't work.
I don't think this type of humor works with the Scooby Doo characters. I don't think they need to keep it "safe," characters can certainly be mean to each other, but the problem is the characters in Velma dont seem to like each other. There's a difference between joking around in a vulgar way with your friends and actually wanting to put others down. The scooby cast is meant to be a very tight-knit group of friends, the love "octagon" as you said, they all have special traits and flaws and each were utilized for solving mysteries and each built off on each other. Shaggy and Scooby were cowards but always ran in the direction of clues, Velma was smart to being pedantic but this allows her to predict patterns and solve cryptic mysteries, Daphne may though often getting captured, can hold her own and is extremely clever, and Fred set traps while sometimes overlooking the flaws of them. What one character lacks another would make up for. We've had mature and dark Scooby-Doo before, and they are universally loved. Scooby Doo on Zombie Island and the Witch's Ghost have stellar animation, story-telling and are "dark" films that treat their audience with respect and intelligence. The same goes for Mystery Inc, one of the BEST Scooby Doo shows out there, with over-arching stories and such. Though not particularly dark, even What's New, Scooby Doo understood its characters, (in fact, I'd say in terms of keeping true to the source material WNSD beats Mystery Inc) The dynamic of the characters is what makes Scooby-Doo, well, Scooby-Doo. Even when some are missing from the group, like when it's only Scooby, Shaggy, and Velma, or Scooby, Shaggy, Fred and Velma, and whatever other combinations there have been, the dynamic is still there. Velma doesn't have the dynamic at all. This is where Velma fails the hardest, the characters feel like they could be anyone, the show has no identity.
These characters are supposed to eventually team up to be the Mystery Inc (at least, that's probably what the creators are going for). I honestly feel like these people wouldn't want to be in the same room together unless some people were literally holding guns to their heads.
My biggest problem with this is I don’t mind that the characters are not 100% the same as the predecessors I mean I think Velma’s design is cute in my opinion but, they don’t feel like people that exist even in the real world they’re so saturated with buzzwords and other stereotypes that makes them feel like parodies of specific characters archetypes and they’re done in such ways that don’t even feel consistent like one moment Daphne is this stuck up girl and the next she’s a very goofy person and this can happen in just the same episode. So it’s hard to gauge even their identities at times and the writing isn’t smart enough to do anything with these changes.
The thing about writers is also that a lot of them get positioned to write on certain shows as well. Even if they aren't that into them. Some of the writers on Velma also worked on other non-related shows like Brooklyn Nine Nine and the fourth episode of the show was written by Elijah Aaron, an Emmy nominated TV writer who did several episodes of the sitcom Raising Hope, also has a writing credit on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Bojack Horseman as well as a number of children's shows like Lloyd in Space, the movies based in the show, Recess, and a few others. O.o All I'm saying is sometimes the writers aren't nobodies with no experience. Sometimes they have a resumé. As for the production team, I am not sure. The main producer of the show is Kandace Reuter who previously worked on two projects, Scooby Doo! The Sword and the Scoob and Aquaman: King of Atlantis, acting as associate producer and line producer respectively; both of which got generally likable reviews on IMDb. She also acted as associate producer in ThunderCats Roar which got negative reviews due to the characters being butchered. She was also production manager on a show called Bunnicula developed by Maxwell Atoms (Billy & Mandy creator). I'm not entirely sure about the exact tasks of each type of producer like line and associate or assistant and how much say they have in the creative process or if it's all just clerical tasks. Mindy Kaling acts as executive producer which from my understanding is more legal, financial and/or business paperwork-based decisions rather than creative. I'm not sure to what extent Kaling had creative say since so far she is not credited as writing any episodes (but, correct me if I'm wrong). The other executive producers include Charlie Grande (Charlie Grande Productions) who wrote the first two episodes of Velma and Howard Klein (3 Arts Entertainment), who is a producer and has been credited on numerous films and some other projects by Mindy Kaling (from what I see he is mostly an executive producer, so it's more financial and business than creative. (Grande and Kaling both worked on The Office episodes. There is also Sam Register who acts as executive producer. Sam Register is considered a legend in the world o TV animation as he one of the big ones responsible for making Cartoon Network the phenomenon that it was in the 90s and 2000s. He is also the one who created the shows Teen Titans and Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi. Overtime he worked his way up and today he is president of Cartoon Network Studios, Warner Bros. Animation and Hanna-Barbera Europe. I seriously doubt Register had any creative input in Velma and his name is on there because he is the president of the animation studio that did the show as well as perhaps having something to do with his position at Hanna-Barbera. In other words is role was pretty much formal/office orientated. The point is a lot of TV writers just work for the production company and write based on the desires of the producers (which in this case I don't know exactly who is making the decisions on what to write for this show, is it Grandy (creator/lead writer perhaps) Reuters (main producer), or Kaling (executive/lead role), or all three?) O.o Thank you for reading... (All the nformation is taken from sources like IMDb and Wikipedia)
What's your favorite Scooby-Doo show/movie?
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Scooby Doo On Zombie Island. ❤ That’s a classic
Mystery Incorporated. That show is easily the best.
Any of them that actually have Scooby-Doo
@@mastertrolley669👍
Movie would be zombie island or witches ghost. Show would be scooby doo where are you and what's new scooby doo
Daria is a great cynical character.
Sokka is a great sarcastic character.
This Velma is not cynical or sarcastic, she's just mean.
She's like the worst version of Rick Sanchez.
hell, if you want a successful look at a cynical sarcastic character today, Wednesday is awesome. Velma just sucks.
Agreed, Velma ( the character) was always a bit snarky, but she was ever mean in any of the other shows except maybe frankencreepy
Adding on to this, in-universe, Daria is regularly pegged as being anti-social and condescending, and in earlier episodes of Avatar, Sokka was kind of a jerk. They were both saved by two elements; first, they both had clear reasons for the attitudes they started out with, and second, they both eventually got better as their characters developed.
That's honestly the series I thought she probably should have rebooted Daria would have been a lot closer to what she was trying to do. It aint even there she to go on too far. Ask for whether to continue with this I think they'd made this into too much of a dumpster fire at this point. If you're gonna recreate an existing IP you can't twist it that far. You've got to remember there are fans that are gonna want to come and watch and they're not gonna like it when you completely throw out all of their characters.
The Left and the Right both hate this show. Do you know how hard it is to get those two to agree on anything?
Cuties: Am I a joke to you?
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 That's old news now, this is the new thing they both hate.
People are united against a common cause, and I love it
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 even cuties had more supporters than this one, and this one isn't illegal!
They agreed on Amber Heard.
It's really weird to see a Scooby-Doo cartoon reskinned to one of those terrible 2000s adult animated shows.
It's like Paradise PD, but somehow worse?
This was the opposite of re-skinning. Preserved the appearance, but eviscerated everything else.
@@solvseusParadise PD has terrible animation. Velma is surprisingly decent. Paradise PD are made by the same people who did Brickleberry, which explains everything on that show.
Are you talking about the oblongs or mission hill, cause those shows were good
If people want to watch a dark Scooby-Doo show, they should watch Mystery Incorporated
They could also watch Scooby Doo Zombie Island
In your opinion
Yes please. Love that show.
Watch Mike Tyson mysteries
Or if they want an adult cartoon with a Scooby Doo "feel", they should watch Mike Tyson Mysteries.
There's a difference between cynical and unpleasant, and Velma doesn't understand this. Every character is unlikable, the show has a pretentiousness to it, and it has the weird sense to say "It's not a big deal that our characters are race swapped, and you're the problem for bringing it up" and then go out of it's way to make race based jokes.
The fact that Velma is a self insert of Mindy is pretty evident that this show is basically a mouthpiece of her viewpoints
Race swapping and race jokes are way different. Stop being racist. If you don't like the show cool but stop making everything about race
The funny thing is she has more in common with Fred than Velma, came from a rich family rich, never worked a part time job, pampered and studied in the best schools. 😂
@@mania4270 read the reply above yours
@mania4270 the problem is that they are using ethnicities as profit and shields for their shitty writing to say "Oh! If you hate it then you're racist!" Instead of ACTUALLY making proper representation. At this point just make new characters with new plots and situations. But that requires creativity and Mindy has barely any of it 🙄
Harley Quinn was an excellent example of having comedic commentary and breaking down franchise tropes, while still having likeable characters and a compelling story. Velma missed out on those last two.
That movie also led to a huge uptick in Harley porn. This show is going to do the exact opposite for Velma.
@@ImInLoveWithBulla Are you talking about Birds of Prey? Because he is referring to a TV show, not a movie
@@ImInLoveWithBulla which is a shame, Asian Daphne is hot
Harley Quinn did that but it also played off the villains being more than just the menacing villain and playing off their back stories or just quirky angles. Clayface still working the frustrated actor bit,King Shark with his family issues but also just wanting to kick back with a movie night or video games with the crew,Catwoman playing off Selina's on off thing with Bruce Wayne or Bane's obsession with the wedding gift for the failed Ivy Kiteman wedding.
harley quinn also didn't straight up race-swap the leading cast
Velma is like if you sucked out all the comedy and relatability of "Daria"
Daria was not afraid of pointing out when its protagonist was the one being insufferable.
Exactly!! Daria was never safe from her own show. Velma would never lol
@@qualitynotincluded also helped Daria shared a universe with Beavis and Butthead lol.
Exactly right. This is Daria if it was nothing but ugliness.
this is the Mindy project with a Velma sticker on it. She made a show and knew it wouldn't sell so she called it Velma.
i love how the writing on velma really acts like it's doing something groundbreaking and original, and you pull a clip from a mid 90s sitcom that sums up their entire shtick in one go
I thought Family Guy was late 90s?
Daria was my first thought looking at Mindy's version of "Velma", she really wants to be Daria.
I wish more people knew about Duckman, that show was too early for it's time but it was beautiful.
@@xXAkirhaXx yeah its take on pc comedy was either prophetic or sad cuz it's 20 years later and nothing's changed
@@xXAkirhaXx those later seasons were rough though. so i can understand why some people might overlook it
I love how, scrolling through these comments, everyone has a different take on what the show screwed up. A few get close to each other, bit ultimately everyone feels personally attacked by this show, or that there's this particular reason they find it's universally un-funny or insulting.
That's a special kind of incompetence to create so many flavours of bad in one terrible show.
You don't have to pick and choose, it's pretty much all terrible.
If you want to watch a Scooby show that is mature, changes characters for the better while staying true to the source material, & stylish animation, watch Mystery Incorporated
Yeah yeah that's standard everyone says that
The fact that show's demographic is kids and it's still more mature and nuanced than this pile of Horse dump tells you alot
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
I was thinking that too
It took the popular aspects of the series. The masked mysteries but setting up some sort of real monster like from the movies
That or 13 Ghosts. For movies, watch On Zombie Island and Witch's Ghost.
This isn't a Scooby-Doo show, this is Mindy Kaling and a bunch of her "friends" acting out her Twitter feed in Halloween costumes.
in bad halloween costumes.
The only thing that could save the show is if Velma started out horribly but becomes gradually more likeable. Like thats the only saving grace this show has, and maybe make Fred grow up more to be a leader
I'm just picturing it as a prolonged side plot from The Office where Kelly Kapoor gets a fever dream where she's Velma.
So.....pretty much every single modern reboot in existence, then? ;)
And she would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
From a supernatural, romantic, comedic, and mystery perspective, I am shocked that there hasn't been a Scooby-Doo anime.
I guess Mystery Incorporated is the closest we got…. 😒
We want a mature and comedic Scooby Doo spin-off. Just not this one 🫥 lol
Scooby-Doo is an anime
Honestly yeah, I think Japan is more likely to make a faithful adaptation of a western cartoon (probably a better mature series too) See Powerpuff Girls Z for example. Its not perfect but at least it is not disrespecting the original.
@@globurimPowerpuff girls Z was a little TOO different from the original and felt like Astro Boy meets Sailor Moon lol but again, I’d rather watch that unique mess than the comedic bully Velma is
Velma is trying to be the Harley Quinn Cartoon with Scooby-Doo characters but is forgetting why people like the Harley Quinn Cartoon: Its funny, has likeable characters and despite its comedic tone has alot of great character and story development.
Agreed! On that note, REALLY excited for the Valentines Day special from Harley next month! Should be great fun :)
Harley Quinn feels the writers actually knew what they were doing and actually were aware about what made Harley a good character meanwhile Velma is a self insert for Mindy to say whatever she wants
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375, Agreed!
Also while I've not seen either show, I think Harley Quinn has an advantage in that its characters are in the original source material VILLAINS. That allows for a lot more freedom in how they're interpreted.
Also, the characters actually like one another and have meaningful and compelling relationships. No one in this version of Mystery Inc likes each other.
Comedy is timing. Every 10 seconds, everything stops so Velma brainfarts a mean spirited tweet.
Exactly that. It has flow, timing, even when cynical, snarky, or causes a response, laughter, pain, it makes you feel something
How did the people behind this, miss the point by a mile? 🤦
Bit like the writers
TIMING
I'm just happy you brought up Scooby Apocalypse. It's such a bizarre comic (like all of the Hanna-Barbera Beyond stuff DC was doing at the time), but it is also one of my favourite experiments done with the series' formula, and made its action horror vibe work really well while keeping everyone pretty recognizable. I wish we got an adaptation of that as our first "Scooby for adults" cartoon over Velma.
Both Scooby Apocalypse and Mystery Incorporated are proof that you can update this characters while not making them too unrecognisable.
Granted Apocalypse tweaked a lot of traits, but they were basically the same people we've known
I mean the characters at least feel the same way
@@djpegao Something that amused me about Scooby-Apocalypse was how they made Shaggy very smart and competent, while still being kinda goofy
The problem is that the character of Velma Dinkley was changed not to update to a modern era but to become Mindy Kaling's self insert. At least in "I am not Starfire" comic the author Mariko Tamaki's self insert Mandy (daughter of Starfire) was an original character; a terrible self-insert original character but still original. Mindy Kaling has appropriated the character Velma Dinkley to be her self-insert mouth piece, and that my opinion is worse.
Lol if that's a self insert all the feedback about how mean she is must be great...
@@sugartoothYT That's the issue. A character as non problematic as Velma doesn't need updating and if you think it does, it means you never gave the source material a chance to stand on its value because you never bothered to seek value in it when you started adapting it.
Your baseline was Scooby Doo is an outdated property that I can make better but you never actually sought to find what was good about it in the first place. You just thought you knew better from the start. Narcissism at it's finest
Thing is, there's already an updated version of Velma and the whole Scooby gang:
*Mystery Incorporated* they updated the characters, gave them (or revamped their) personalities while you could still recognise the core traits of each character.
This? I have no idea what this "show" Velma is but it's neither Scooby or a good cartoon.
@@djpegao too right good person too right
The mistake these shows keep making is they think it's funny to just be a horrible person without any reason or purpose. I'd honestly blame 'Rick & Morty' for starting it, which was a VERY mean-spirited series (whether you like it or not, you have to agree with that statement), but it's jokes worked because you saw the kind of things the characters dealt with which explained why they were so miserable and angry about everything. To quote one of my favourite comedians: 'life is hard, and it makes you hard too, but you can make it better by being funny'.
The problem with shows like 'Velma' and even with the 'Harley Quinn' series (at times) is that they don't get that, they think you can just be an asshole and people will love it because 'being a terrible person is great'. Hence why we now have this bitter, cynical, mean-spirited and downright miserable show taking jabs at everyone it feels deserves it without any reason other than 'we're assholes', because as said before, they think that that's excuse enough to act that way, when it isn't.
Good cynical comedy is saying 'life sucks, doesn't it? Let's have a laugh at it because it's the only thing we can do apart from cry'. 'Blackadder' knew this and was DELIGHTFULLY cynical, with the main character being a powerless person stuck catering to spoiled, out-of-touch and mad people who couldn't run a bath properly, never mind a country / army.
Bad cynical comedy is sulking in the corner just saying 'fuck you and everything about you'. There's no reason to it other than just being mean-spirited and hateful, which, shockingly, IS NOT FUNNY.
At least it makes sense why Harley Quinn would use those mean spirited jokes, the main cast are villains and can be somewhat annoyed by a certain member’s traits, like how their annoyed at Clayface’s over acting or how Harley is too impulsive. Essentially it’s a roast where each party has a valid point. But in Velma, it seems she can’t go 5 minutes belittling everyone around her in order to make her feel better about herself. Hell she legitimately thought telling everyone that Daphne going to the school shrink to help with her mental health would be so humiliating it would turn her into a social outcast. But instead the students rationally further supported Daphne and further alienated Velma.
Oh I love Blackadder! Mainly the Second and Third. It perfectly fits the dry part of my sense of humor.
Rick and Morty take jabs at the meaning of being human and part of a vapid society, not shallow things like race or gender, they literally gloss over those narratives in favor of abstracts that go beyond being a merely self aware being. It at least that's how they started.
Velma is just the most shallow kind of high school criticism with short sighted interpretations of human interaction, Shallow problems for shallow people.
The earliest show I can think of where everyone was just horrible to each other was Married with Children, though it was taking the piss out of a lot domestic and economic problems families were (/are) facing and the main characters had basically just given up trying to have better lives.
What I liked about the older Scooby Doo shows was the fact the humor usually spoke for itself or had some silliness, for example Scooby and Shaggy use to defy the laws of physics like Scooby flying in the werewolf episode with trash can lids or both he and Shaggy somehow managed to hide inside a tv during the Ghost Of Hyde episode.
It's not uncommon for hated and/or unsuccessful shows to have some talented people working on it
"Talented"- PAST TENSE.
Whatever talents the writers had, is long gone.
@@longtsun8286 "You are Talented"
Ah yes, past tense
The animation is good, too bad it was wasted on this dreck
What I've seen is that the part of all this that upsets people the most is that a show like this was given the green light in the midst of multiple new shows getting cancelled as tax write-offs before they even get a chance to be made. We absolutely want new shit but we can't get it because it's all getting canned and this is all that's left over. A show that thinks it's above its audience and is almost constantly mocking us for it.
When I think about how infinity train got canned but this got a green light it just really fucking sucks
Seen it a lot with Disney too, where if it doesn't become as popular Pokémon and sell TWICE as much, it won't get more than 2 season.
Still salty about Inside Job getting cancelled
They've even all but deleted established shows like #FinalSpace. It was on for 3 seasons and they not only can it but scrub it from all platforms. You can still watch some episodes but there's a bunch missing so there's no point
I really respect how you’re saying what a lot of people are thinking and feeling without really taking a side, because I’ve always believed being good isn’t about being on “the right side”, but about the choices we make as individuals. And you’ve always said that yourself, I think. I respect that.
Same, I'm so tired of people thinking that because of the extreme left ruining media, then that means that the right is the right way to go. No, both are insane extremes and it shows even with what the Critic said about movies like God's Not Dead. I believe in God, but wow is this a terrible movie that makes him look bad and is obviously just right-leaning propaganda (much like how Velma is blatant left-leaning propaganda). I miss the days when people were actually artists who probably wanted to say something, but above politics were storytelling and morality. The morality of simply being human, of understanding yourself and others and their flaws. And if you wanted to instill change, it was done through empathy. Have someone stand in your shoes who normally wouldn't. But now no, it's sticking to your own lane and judging everyone by race and political leaning. Nowadays it's, pick a side and if you're not on my side then you're racist, then you're woke, or this and that.
@@obie-1309 it’s not about what you do or believe anymore, it’s about being on the right side of history. Well, the people who typically are, are the people who just want people to get along and don’t try and tell others what they should and shouldn’t think.
You think its "good" to horde trillions of dollars? you think its "good" to prop up dying industries like coal in the face of constant weather disasters? you think its "good" to refuse to increase minimum wage and for millennials and Gen Z be the first generation in DECADES to be worse off than their parents? to remove medical care? to constantly raise the retirement age? The right and moderate "leftists" distracts you with stupid discussions about TV shows and weaponized nostalgia so you can't see the real world issues the ACTUAL left wants you to see. You want to know what an actual left-wing show looks like, look at Andor. THAT is what the real left cares about.
@@DramoolVecone I hate to cut in, but anyone that uses the phrase "the right side of history" doesn't understand history. It doesn't have a side. If it has a pattern, it's more like the Eastern view of history as being cyclical rather than the Western view of linearity. Name a topic and I can show you how it constantly changes over time, never settling on one thing permanently.
Even what you said here is incorrect. Those people that just want to get along cease to exist as relevant actors because they DON'T act one way or the other.
@@John-fk2ky well I’d be an asshole if I said I’m always right.
I think another problem is that they don’t use anything related to Scooby Doo. Harley Quinn uses their characters and lore in a funny, adult way. Velma resets the lore completely and the focus is on irreverent, contrived plotlines not related to mysteries.
I think that Scooby-Doo is a property that has very little flexibility for the personalities of the main cast. If they don't act in pretty specific ways with specific mannerisms, they become mostly unrecognizable. Like their personalities can be expanded upon and made more complex, but not really changed without losing the thing that makes them that character in the first place.
I would say Fred and Daphne can change depending on the version but tend to be the reliable leader and the social expert of the group respectively
People hate to admit it, but these characters mostly boil down to a bunch of quirks and gimmicks, because that’s how the original shows made them iconic.
Shaggy likes food and runs away from danger, Velma loses her glasses and is clever etc. etc.
Later shows could feel free to expand on these things, but the moment you remove these weirdly-specific quirks/gimmicks the essence of the character is lost because that’s what defines them to the mass public
yeah I saw ppl who didn't like velma's character in mystery incorporated, not only bc of her romance w/ shaggy but how they made her all snarky. I'm sure that was done to make her stand out more/add to the group dynamic but whether ppl liked or disliked it, a lot of ppl said "this doesn't feel like velma". the characters were just too stuck in their ways for too long to go the "super different interpretation" route now w/o ticking some ppl off
Absolutely spot on. And for this kind of "look look, a character you recognise is doing something OUT-of-character!" humour to work, you kinda need to play the other elements of it pretty straight.
Just did a check on it. Apparently, both Scooby and Shaggy are copyrighted, and Mindy couldn't get the rights to them, or something to that effect.
I mean, you can’t have a Scooby Doo show without Scooby, that’d be like a Mario game without Mario in it.
ye. Mario is missing. buy its also trash
Mario's missing:
or a Garfield show without Garfield
But I liked Luigi's Mansion.
Nitpick: There are Luigi, Yoshi, Peach and Toad games, and even a game called Mario is Missing, but even there Mario usually pops up or is an important part. Except Wario games which are their own weird thing, and even then Wario is pretty much “weird Mario.”
Absolutely true. It's like having the same shitty school "lunch" again and again and again, and then the school wondering why no one wants lunch. Also, your take on the characters' relationships is gold, but to me, they're a polycule. They all love each other, but in different ways and that's perfect. Scooby gets to be the spoiled fur baby with two moms and two dads.
I think most people hate Velma because it feels like the writers are writing a scooby doo based show, that hates scooby doo. (The Shows, not the dog. Maybe the dog too who knows.) It’s almost like they were writing an original show and were forced to make it scooby doo related.
That and it feels like it hates the key demo and audience that much
I was honest to God NOT expecting Doug to make a video on the Velma show. One of my biggest problems with this show is that it DOESN'T feel like a Scooby-Doo project! When you look back on the other incarnations of Scooby-Doo, you can at least still tell that the charm and the formula are still there, but they can still experiment with it. Scooby-Doo is a lot like Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, where this show will reinvent itself MULTPLE TIMES, and some will either love or hate it, but the majority of the time, people like most of the incarnations. But when you don't have the charm that has been in this franchise for 54 YEARS, you ain't gonna get something good.
It's like they slapped Velma on the title and advertized it as a scooby spin off/prequel because they knew it would fail otherwise
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 EXACTLY!!! But honestly, this show would've been better off as a standalone, original project and not tie in to Scooby-Doo.
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 That's likely exactly what they did tbh
Right, the names are just there to lend some credibility to a vanity project.
Mike Tyson Mysteries is a better Scooby Doo cartoon than Velma is.
The mom flashbacks made me genuinely laugh. But the drug deal gag has been done to death. I wasn't expecting the real mom flashbacks. But as soon they did a drug dealing montage, I was like, oh she's probably going to sell drugs to either her father, or Sophie. But during the montage, I was like wait Sophie's pregnant: dad.
This is a very good way of describing everything as neutrally as possible while also being aware of what’s the shows goal was. I love Nostalgia’s way of saying things
Same, he even mentioned how "it's allright to make fun of certain people", like Fred
I like how people who stick up for it always go for the "You hate it because the characters are minorities, you're racist." Like naw g, I hate it because they took a scooby dooby dump on a beloved franchise and the people behind it know absolutely nothing about what makes an animated show good.
They might as well add scrappydoo's annoying ass on the show
Then Doug is wrong
Not to mention it’s badly written.
Personally I never saw people saying this in context of Velma 🤣
It's actually racist towards white men. They make Fred a dumb, rich Nazi guy
This show is “Well the chart says….” In a nutshell 🤣
they are everything that:s wrong with entertainment xD
Doug’s like that ultra rare substitute teacher that made every subject fun and fascinating.
That's really accurate, well said 👍🏻
Dong is like the college professor who subjects are lengthy but yet pleasurable to study on..
I agree. I think that this is the first review of Velma that has some substance beside hating on it.
thats why i like his critics on stuff and movies
That why I'm subscribed to him
Bruh, I am not a diehard Scooby fan either, but this show shits so much on the characters that it causes me physical pain.
My issue with race and gender swap is that it usually is mixed with sacrificing character or plots for the narrative. It sucks cause I know it can be done as long as you keep the core aspects of the character.
Finally! Somebody else who gets it! I don’t mind the “inclusiveness” itself, but if you’re gonna replace an already beloved or well-known character for that effort… there’s a good chance that you’re going too far.
My only assumption of why they still do this is that maybe it’s cheaper to LITERALLY change an important (and perhaps even popular) character than to add another new character to the main roster?
I don’t agree
You shouldn’t change an established character at all
If you want a bunch of non white characters, quit being cheap, do what you used to have to do and make new ones
@@spenserfarthing3898 Yeah, I don't agree either. Race swapping is the "in" thing, only out of some arbitrary obligation for inclusivity - but it adds nothing substantial, especially to beloved characters. And trust me, as someone who was born crippled, I sure as hell hope we don't move onto "ambulation swapping" where the same characters are now in wheelchairs for some reason.
Ppl are waaaay to sensitive to race swapping. Maybe b/c as a poc and being older I’ve seen it done too many characters who were real ppl and they’re made white and I’m just like 🤷🏾♂️. It’s just a show no one cares really. With that being said the show is a mess for a multitude of reasons
@@jaketheman091 Yeah, I do agree. Race swapping is only serving to give a 'different personality and different scenarfios to the same character traits'. that can be funny. A disabled superman might actually be funny and insightful at the same time.
but when its done badly it's terrible.
I think the secret is in the title. "Velma" is about the unreliable narration of an angsty teenage version of Velma, seeing all of these characters and situations through her teen-colored eyes. That could be good if the writing just wasn't so bad. Maybe if the show follows how these characters slowly change into actual human beings as her perception of them and her world change it could be good, but I don't think they plan to travel that route.
Warner Said The Batgirl Movie Was Brand Damaging But Then Released Velma.
Scooby-doo is the brand hes not a part of this pocket universe
@@davidbanner7804 season one kind of setup how it's probably going to happen with the whole brain switching thing. The project was called SCOOBI, I'm honestly looking forward to season 2, when the gang is together the show gets better. Velma being horrible is a lot more tolerable when she's getting called out by the others
'you know this isn't the worst show ever, but the reason you want to call it that is because its a pattern that youre getting sick off'
brilliant bit of wisdom there Doug
That's what I thought too. It's not the worst thing, but the final straw that broke everyone's back. People noticed the pattern.
This "post modern", " meta" writing style is getting old.
👍👍
Who is claiming that Velma is the worst show ever? It isn't. But that doesn't make it any better. It is still the worst show I've seen in a long time. Even (very) left-leaning shows like the Rings of Power have some entertaining (for instance the totally absurd ones) moments for me personally. I watched She-Ra and Masters of the Universe. Without the pattern of left-leaning 'woke' elements, those are decent shows (mostly She-Ra though). She-Hulk, Wheel of Time and Velma aren't entertaining.
@@gwenwalravens8030 Just type "velma worst show" on the search bar.
@@gwenwalravens8030 I don't know why anyone is calling this woke. Libs hate it too. It's more like they used the race swapping and gay baiting just to make all sorts of lazy jokes that are just racist, homophobic, and misogynist without the social commentary. Last Of Us is actually woke, but it tells a good story well.
She-Hulk was just bad, and I say that as a fan of the earlier comics.
I like this format. It allows Doug to just quickly jump in with minimal editing and put down interesting opinions on current matters at hand as far as film and animation. This could also be a solution to his past admittance that sometimes he doesn't cover things because he isn't sure he has much to say. What he has to say sometimes might not be enough for a fully written, fully edited video of something, but using a format like this, it's great.
Format is ok, but Doug making up positives in a show he hated is so dishonest its baffling.
Really "maybe the writers could do better"? Who cares if they could do better, they didnt.
@@googleslocik You think its dishonest to look things objectively and not just repeating the same "all of this sucks" mantra? Like the said, he found few jokes that were funny even tho the show overall is very disappointing, hence writers could potentially make something funny.
@@villekorhonen824
No i think its dishonest to put in "what ifs" into what supposed to be a honest opinion over a show. You review the show as it is, not as what it "could be", any show has potential to be good, so such rambles are pure dishonest manipulation.
Hard to not get the impression Dough is trying to dodge the controversial take by taking an extremely safe and weird position.
The animation, writing and acting is on top of all the other problems. Between the racist race swapping, sexualization of minors in the show, racist Indian and black stereotypes, the pedophilic history of Mindy Kaling, removing of scooby, the constant body shaming, the story and tone changes the animation having nice looking 3 seconds is literally the last thing one expect to be said.
Like how did Dough not spend time addressing how its not a episodic mystery show with a talking dog anymore? So busy dodging what people are talking about he forgot to even mention why people hated it even before the debut.
I guess the creators plan worked, some reviewers are afraid to talk how truly awful this show is, at lest this time it was a small minority.
@@googleslocik he stated at the beginning of the video he didn't want to repeat what plenty of others have said. If you wanted a video complaining about how there's no scooby, there a million other videos addressing that. He simply wanted to say what his thoughts were without beating a dead horse.
@@britaingray5400
Yes, and he went right into repeating every fake positive everybody who dosnt want to touch this show with a stick will say. If he wanted to actually say something people are afraid to mention how about the pedophilia in the show? But i guess its a forbidden word on youtube when it comes to monetization so its a no go.
But no point even discussing it, Dough didnt want to get into anything controversial and its up to him, but its not honest.
Me and the wife tried watching this. I made it to about half way into the first episode and just couldn't go on. The fact that anyone can get past the first episode is amazing to me.
Thank you. It was ok to me.
I watched both. I was just sad afterwards
sorry but..."the wife"? I mean, what? the wife of who?
@@bluedul904 "Me and the wife" refers to you and your wife
@@_the_rizzler still sound funny. Like “ i m in the house of my wife boyfriend “
I think people don’t give you enough credit. You’ve definitely improved to becoming a genuine, well-rounded reviewer with nuance and self-awareness. I’ve been watching your show for years now and it’s great to see such positivity in an ocean of bitter discourse. Cheers, Doug Walker- 🍻
's all good, man!
People say modern Nostalgia Critic sucks, but it’s better than Velma.
One thing I’ve seen a lot of is how people are ripping on Velma for how they handle people going through panic attacks. Especially how Velma calms down from panic attacks. So far, it’s laughing at Norville for spilling his heart out and embracing Daphne making out with her.
Watch Puss in Boots the last Wish if you want to see good representation for a panic attack.
So, I'd say Puss in Boots does it significantly better than this show aimed at adults?
Yeah, it's messed up tbh. Velma's a horrible person here
Edit: For the Norville thing. It's fine that she was attracted to Daphne. Velma's always given those vibes
I kind of don't like that. It trivializes the severity of those who have experienced these things as well as just making Velma look bad. I doubt they would make half way decent night terrors.
So far Owl House and Puss in Boots 2 showcases panic attacks correctly.
@@_the_rizzler it’s not Velma being a lesbian, it’s that you really should attempt to kiss someone who is going through a panic attack.
Also to add, Mindy sounds like she is making fun of people going through panic attacks.
Part of my problem with shows like this, particularly with things like the pointless changing of characters just to "make a statement" is that they always feel like they hurt whatever they're trying to "speak for" than they help it. They tend to focus so much on the message they're trying to convey that they end up creating a bad product, which in turn makes audiences, (myself included, admittedly), more hesitant and cynical towards any product that changes things like a character's race, gender, sexuality, etc.
This ends up breeding more distaste for the cause than support, and also leads the people who support said causes to take a "you're with us or against us" mentality and blame racism/sexism/etc for people not liking changes, rather than accepting that sometimes people just don't like a bad product. I hate to say it, but the moment I saw that they were changing the character's races for this show, I was immediately annoyed because I knew it meant they were trying to make a statement rather than create something entertaining. I wish I had been proven wrong.
I totally get that, agree, AND have that mentality for that very reason.
Whenever movies and shows have it that the heroine is the only competent one, never fails, and all the men are idiots, it feels like Hollywood is saying 'we think women can only be good when the game is rigged in their favour'. When they take a well-known character and race/gender-swap them, it's like they're saying 'nobody will care about this person unless we slap a name they already know on them.'
Miles Morales is well liked by Spider-Man fans, because they didn't just take all of Peter's traits and put them in a black man. They gave Miles his own personality, his own variant powers, and his own motivations. He did so well, they brought him into the main Marvel universe so he can work alongside Peter. But all that takes effort, and entertainment just doesn't want to put in any effort into anything anymore.
So they changed Velma from white to black? Risky and perhaps trying too hard to be progressive, but not the end of the world.
Make her also an unlikeable character? Bold, but could still work.
Make her a bad example of an unlikeable character and thus adding potentially problematic implications? Damn, now that's misguided execution at its finest.
Well said
Agreed. Racist trash love shows like this, because it gives them a chance to sneer, smirk and say "I'm not racist / sexist BUUUUUUUT--"
This show feels like it was made by an AI who learned human mannerisms by reading Twitter over the past 5 years.
I still think the animaniacs reboot was written by AI
Nah, AI will make it more insane and unintentially funny, I think
The writers were so incompetent that they couldn't figure out how to incorporate Scooby-Doo in a mature setting. Even when it's literally been done in movies and in Supernatural or Venture Brothers. 🙄
People keep mentioning Mystery Inc. as well.
WB wouldn’t let them use Scooby. They sort of accidentally revealed that in an interview awhile back. I’m sure because WB knew this was probably going to take a shit and didn’t want the actual dog in it.
I keep expecting to hear the new Shaggy guy will be in a even with his friend he refers to as “dog” or something like that
🤷♂️ lol
@@Matthew.Wade27 At least Scooby and OG Shaggy were spared. (I don't consider Norville to be Shaggy, even if he shares his real name. Not because of the race swap necessarily, but they simply aren't even close to being the same characters or even variations. Daphne and Fred I guess too, but him in particular.)
HOLY SHIT! Someone besides me brought up The Venture Brothers!
In my opinion, no terrible reboot angers me more than Fate the Winx Saga. For one main reason: because at least most people know what franchises like Scooby Doo, Fantastic Four, Avatar the Last Airbender, The Powerpuff Girls, classic Disney movies and even Thundercats are and not what their reboots make them out to be. Not enough people know what Winx Club is because of either generational divide, people, usually adults, dismissing animation as a genre for kids, casual viewers not knowing which English dubs to choose from with most of them not being 100% accurate, Nickelodeon rebooting it as a badly written preschool show (even rerunning it on effing Nick Jr.) and now this show, presenting it to casual viewers as a badly written teen drama!
I'll admit I feel bad for the casual fanbase since this show became yet another cancelhanger victim (cancelled on a cliffhanger) but besides them and other crew members who were just doing their job regardless of what show they're making, I feel no sympathy for no one.
If anything good came out of it, is that introduced casual fans to the REAL Winx Club with the Rai English aka Cinelume dub or both Rai English dub and 4Kids dub since both have some great qualities.
Plenty Europeans are aware of the Original Winx as they grew up with it like the toys were everywhere only Americans are unaware of it mostly
I forgot that reboot was a thing
Someone else grew up with winx club? And its still going? Is that the live action version I've been hearing about or something else
Every show is getting the Riverdale treatment Sabrina TTW, The Adams Family, Winx Club and even PowerPuff Girls it’s obnoxious.
The writers don't want to make a good show. They want to make their own show and force the audience to like it, making the audience dislike it even more, and then blame the audience for having their own opinions. It's the same with Disney Star Wars or now Marvel; if you don't like it, it's your fault because we're too perfect to make something bad.... until we realize it's bad 5 years later, then we'll still blame you because you didn't tell us sooner even though we didn't want listen to you
I like getting to hear Doug Walker. Nostalgia critic is funny and I watch them and enjoy them. But hearing Doug’s actual opinion, nuanced, intelligent, and not filtered through character acting is really nice. It’s good to hear an opinion that’s not entirely negative even though that would’ve been the gimme.
Same. My first impression of Doug from watching Nostalgia Critic was that he'd probably be a pretentious jerk and difficult to work with because of how over-the-top he was with yelling and negativity. But when you watch his chill videos like this, you realize he's nothing like that internet persona he adopts. He comes across as an incredibly nice, humble guy who's just a big nerd with a passion for cinema. I vastly prefer these off-the-cuff reviews to his scripted ones.
Well it is also a safe topic that has less odds of people going after his channel.
@@nintentrovert My mom has heard Nostalgia Critic on in the background and one time she said, "Omg, he's so obnoxious!" and she was a little put off but how negative he was. I kept having to assure her that no, the Critic is just a character, it's like a TV personality, the real Doug actually isn't that mean lol
This makes Cats (2019) look Oscar worthy.
Cats was just bizarre, but not angering. This is
@@Jack1994hoo Cats was really bad, but in an artsy way. It's like a painting that's technically done well, was very inspired, and had a lot of effort and talent behind it, but is also supposed to be incomprehensible in ways and make people ask questions that they didn't even know could be asked.
Velma wishes it was Cats. They're both bad, but Cats succeeds in what it seems like it wants to do. Velma is just unpleasant.
Cats brought us a plague.
I don't look forward to seeing what kind of calamity humanity will now need to endure as punishment for this atrocity of a show.
I like Cats 2019 movie, because its what furries wishes they could be like, so i always have it on DVD as a reminder of that realistic world : D. Humanoid but furry like. I mean its accurate
The younger actors in Cats 2019 did a good job, imo
I think it is OK for a character to be mean-spirited, but it has to serve something. It has to be part of the overarching joke, serve as a catalyst for karmic happenings , provide a different lens, setup a redemption story. It can serve many things in many ways. But if you fail at having it serve something, if the character is just mean for the sake of it or worse: some misconception that mean alone equals funny. Then you just end up with the character being spiteful. And it very much feels like that applies on this show. That it lost sight of what you need to make it work and got blinded by wanting to say something for the sake of saying something.
Mystery Incorporated spoiled us when it came to this franchise.
You mean Preachy. Trying to be important, trying to save the world, acting like they have a leg up on how everything should be and you're the one falling behind and you need to catch up, thats Preachy.
Legit congrats to Doug. I’ve seen a lot of Velma impressions and his are by far the best, most thoughtful, fairest, and insightful opinions on this whole shitshow I’ve seen yet. Of course Velma is not the worst tv show of all time but man does it slaps you in the face with so much stupid crap we’ve grown tired of recently.
One good thing about Velma, it made me go back to Bojack horseman as an example of a real good show.
The fact that they completely destroyed Fred's character should tell you all you need to know about Velma. If they started to play off that Velma is a massive unlikeable narcissist, it still wouldn't fix the fact that Fred (who I always felt was the male carbon copy of Daphne) is the primary punching bag for the show's unfunny humor.
The whole idea of the show is undermined by the fact that the amount of respect characters are given is almost directly proportional to where they sit on the privilege stack.
Yeah but they destroyed ALL the characters, not just Fred's
I would DEFINITELY recommend you to go ahead and watch all of Mystery Inc. if you haven't yet already, Doug. I'm not _necessarily_ a Scooby-Doo! aficionado, but I can not understate how amazing Mystery Inc. is. If ALL you know about it is its cynical nature and the Shaggy/Velma romance, you will be dumbfounded how incredible the show actually is. The overarching plot, the darker tone, the gang's personalities and dynamics... Super highly recommend anyone to check it out.
Easily one of the best incarnations of Scooby Doo ever made, IMO!!!
True dat, it's a legit entertaining show.
I'm surprised you didn't point out the other problem the show has that is a common pitfall in comedies nowadays: The audience-insulting writing. It's one thing to be meta. I love the Deadpool films, Monty Python & the Holy Grail, and even the Chip n' Dale movie partially for how they take potshots at common tropes in their genres. However, when you disregard the viewer's intelligence by letting a joke go on for too long or blatantly explaining it, that's infuriating to me. Not to mention that one line where Velma berates adults who watch animated content, which is hilarious un-self aware considering the show itself is a cartoon that adults watch.
to quote god from the holy grail "GET ON WITH IT!"
"that one line where Velma berates adults who watch animated content, which is hilarious un-self aware considering the show itself is a cartoon that adults watch" --
Do you REALLY think they weren't aware of the irony, that they really forgot they were writing a cartoon?
Unfortunately, I don't think they were un-aware that they were insulting their audience; powers know, kids shouldn't be watching it for a variety of reasons. I think they just thought that insulting their own audience was funny, and said audience was so infatuated with believing themselves "above it all" that they would literally think they should only be insulted if they were the kind of people who would be insulted, if that makes any sense.
@ThreadBomb Usually, shows that mock the audience don't also mock themselves, unless there's a seething amount of hatred by the writers for everyone else.
Agreed
Remember how in Venture Bros. The groovy gang was the Fred character essentially holding the gang hostage? Or how in Birdman Shaggy and Scooby were arrested under suspension of marijuana possession? Even the book Meddling Kids, where Scooby mirrored characters, stumble on a lovecraftian ritual and horrors. All that is a far better "adult" version of Scooby. And they all had Scooby. Even the porn parody did better
Second season already confirmed. Despite the critical reaction, HBOMax only had a goal of getting noticed with Velma, and they achieved that goal. Love or it hate it, we're eating out of the palm of their hand.
Then let’s just not watch it.
The comedy is this show explains the joke so often that I can't help but feel that the writers have no confidence in the audience understanding their writing.
Its NEVER a good sign when the writers think "oh, that was too subtle for my stupid audience. Maybe I should dumb it down to their level and explain my hilarious joke"
Basically, it's "Peppa Pig" for adults.
@@fictionalmediabully9830 Not really fair--Peppa does have some quite subtle and clever jokes.
If I meet somebody who unironically finds Velma funny, I’m locking them in a room and making them watch Ryan Higa videos for a week to teach them what it is true comedy
@@Joey7Z7Horror
Okay, no. You're a toxic individual if you do that. Someone likes something you don't, nothing to get upset over.
Scooby-Doo emphasized the bond between four very different and unique individuals. This show succeeds in bringing together a community who loathes Mindy Kaling and Vermin Dorkley.
Your relationship breakdown between Scooby characters is perfect
Its not lol
It's funny. But feels like it's just "modern" day "trendy 'cause fear of cancelation" talk (It'll get dated really soon, it already is actually).
I feel like he almost got it right. The way I always saw it, Velma wants Daphne, Daphne wants Fred, Fred is in love with himself, and Scooby and shaggy just love food.
@@esparzacartoons2050Fred has consistently been a Daphne simp. She became a journalist, so he became her cameraman. If it's unrequited, it's almost certainly on Daphne's end.
Grew up with Scooby-Doo. Watched Scooby-Doo. This mess is NOT Scooby Doo.
When's the next season of Harley Quinn again?
Fun fact the creator made unwanted advances on a coworker and threatened to fire him if he talked
Edit: my dumb ass somehow misspelled he
> threatened to fire him if she talked
Well which one is it. He or she?
Plot twist: the victim has successfully obtained every core pronoun and has acquired ultimate power.
Right lol straight facts and can't even get the he/her right HAHAHAHA
@@rommix0 in todays age that could be a completely normal statement
@@cheeseburger7788 Yes because good grammar is a lost art. People online can't seem to form proper sentences for shit.
This show is getting so much hate because EVERYONE hates it.
Usually with shows like this it leans massively in one direction or another, but this show managed to do something hardly anything ever can.
It made the left and right both agree that this is crap.
Santa Inc. started with a 1.1 rating and has since climbed to 1.6. Velma started with roughly 2.5 and has dropped to 1.3 in a week. That's highly impressive.
Okay Santa Inc was BAAAAD. And Seth Rogan is a horrible person. He literally said everyone who doesn't like the show is a white supremacist, and that is the reason the show was doing poorly. If people like that more than Velma, there's a problem...
Did you mean mystery inc.?
@@alicepbg2042
I think they may be talking about that hated "Christmas movie".
@@valor1omega idk which one...
People hate it so much that they despise it.
That's one way to say it
@@noaha5379Last Jedi was mediocre.
Mandalorian and Andor are TRUE Star Wars
@@noaha5379 you mean "DISNEY WARS THE LAST JEDD CLAMPETT"
Those are synonyms
Wow, that's the most redundant sentence I heard since "the play control is so good that you actually notice how good it is".
I’d enjoy more videos like this. Just candid discussion of thoughts on media. It’s really enjoyable to just sit back and listen to
this is the Mindy project with a Velma sticker on it. She made a show and knew it wouldn't sell so she called it Velma.
Obligatory recommendation to watch mystery Incorporated. Aka the best scooby doo show.
Velma is truly the series that brings us all together. Fucking *EVERYBODY* hates it.
I think this show has the same issue Allen Gregory did. It focused so much on being "edgy" at the expense of being funny. Not to mention they made the character Uber stereotypes, the smart one is Indian, the martial artist is East Asian, the pot smoker is black and the clean cut one is white
"You're not breaking stereotypes, you're trading old ones for new ones"
- TheMysteriousMrEnter
Edit: yes I'm aware this Norville is against drugs. My point was that with all the memes and fan theories about Shaggy being a marijuana user it's notable that he's the one who was turned black
I'm shocked people still quote a scumbag like Mr. Enter.
Did you just quote the "Turning Red didn't talk about 9/11 enough" guy?
@@Sonichero151
Yes he did. It's mind-boggling to say the least.
@@Sonichero151
I haven't seen that video. I just felt the quote was relevant
Wait… Norville in the show so far is against drugs…
If you want a satirical Scooby Doo type cartoon for adults, watch the Mike Tyson Mysteries.
A bit surprise for me in 2022 was Orville's third season. The first two are... entertaining. A handful of good episodes, but nothing to get me too excited. But when I put on third season (intended as background noise), I was shocked how good the writing become. Yeah, the conversations are left leaning, but the characters are fleshed out, and story pacing went smoother. Even if I didn't agree with everything said, I cared for the characters and was engaged with the story. Like you were saying, I think we creators need to love our characters and their situations more than we love our own genius. If we put our ego before our darlings, then the story suffers.
Good comedy is one that isn't afraid to make fun of everyone, especially the main characters themselves . This is what made Sunny in Philadelphia good as opposed to Velma, which fails and just ends up being more mean spirited than funny
And it’s shocking that Fred is voiced by Dennis from that better show
Just like family guy
This is why I don’t like all that talk about how certain comedians aren’t funny because they “punch down”. Comedy isn’t about how you’re so smart and everyone who disagrees with you is either a bully or an idiot, it’s about reminding us not to take anything to seriously.
@@trollsomegaming4693 yeah but Fox isn’t forcing them to still make episodes, the creator didn’t check out years ago and people don’t only watch to complain.
yup h3ll in always sunny the gang is the butt of the joke.
I get the sense that Velma is trying to be Daria but ends up being the worst of Beavis and Butthead.
So...Velma is Butthead? Because rewatching that series, Beavis is kind of a saint compared to Butthead, who is the absolute worst of the two.
Doug u should DEFINITELY make more editorial type videos like this
I think that what they should have done with "Velma" is present it as a parody or an alternative take on the ScoobyDuniverse as a whole. Change the names to something close but different, riff on the tropes. I think what offends people the most is that the characters are presented as the original characters, who, despite having changed over the years, have a distinct core. The Venture Brothers did a very good parody of them one episode.
I haven't watched the show but I felt insulted as much as the people who actually watched it
It looks terrible
Same here. From what I've seen/read about it, it just looks TOO mean spirited. Also, it's not a Scooby Doo show OR a Velma show - it's a Mindy Kaling vehicle for her jokes and leanings, first and foremost.
04:54
I'm starting to think Doug is just a psychopath.
Studios got to stop trying to change franchises and do something original
Would you talk about if it was original?
@@sharkanenoa5928
If something is worth while sure
Technically this was original
@@kwayneboy1524 It's still changing a franchise. It isn't completely original.
@@sharkanenoa5928 I would like something original. Don't act like you're different.
Not gonna lie, I wanted to give this show a chance and one episode later, I wanted to drink, beat myself silly and touch substances that I would never even imagine doing before I'd ever again, just to prepare for the next episode AND IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL!!!
Sometimes i forget Doug's reviews/editorial style videos are really really good. I come and go from the Critic videos these days, but the serious straight forward reviews and video essay videos hold up really well.
I'm surprised how no one I've seen has brought up how all of the characters just outright reveal their motivations at the slightest provocation like they are giving an elevator pitch. It's like the writers wanted to make sure that everyone knew that these weren't just flat characters, but instead of showing us they just tell us. That is what I think is the worst part of the show: the poor, lazy writing.
Agreed. Like how Velma explains her oh so tragic back story to Fred with almost no set up. Or when Dannie started to explain her secret desire to find her birth family out of no where. Or Fred just explaining that he hasn’t started puberty yet to Velma after she found the slightest clue in his house. It all always just comes out of no where
I feel bad for the animators. They spent months if not a couple of years in the development of this show, and it was a complete WASTE OF TIME! This show maybe really bad and it's plot sucks, but, BUT, the animation and the people who had to make art out of this, deserve credit. I hope those animators go onto doing something much MUCH better than whatever this was.
You're not the only one, believe it or not.
A good thing not often talked about or over looked is the good character design. They all have clean lines and do look aesthetically pleasing. The problem is every single character has such a shit personality connected to it that nobody can stand sticking with them.
It’s sad because the show looks fine. Nothing outstanding true but nothing bad either. Hell, save for Shaggy, the gang match the originals in looks . It’s mostly everything else!
@@Dalton_Boardman2000 I really don't like the character design at all. its very blocky/dated feeling and all the characters glow in the dark for some reason with the lighting. I would have preferred a more artistic/fluid animation
That’s assuming that the animation was done in the states and not outsourced to like Japan or South Korea or the like, as that’s what happens with a lot of western cartoons.
My only real issue with the show was:
1. NO SCOOBY
2. It got in its own way of the story. It can give us the lesson as well as the story but the lesson should be secondary to a good story because a good story will teach you the lesson without you realizing it
Lol if the rumours are true you might wish there was no Scooby... The rumours say they made Scooby a black women who dates Shaggy.
@@lunasif who's shaggy? This isn't s norville
Quite frankly the only reason this show exists is so that people will watch Mystery Incorporated since that's Velma when it's not being made by idiots.
Another part of this is that Warner Bros cut SO MANY shows and movies - particularly animation - but *this* is what they kept. Like, we couldn’t have that Scooby-Doo Christmas special (or whatever it was), but we get to keep Mindy Kaling’s vanity project.
Sure. Okay. 🙄
Velma kind of reminds me Elton John's response to Elen de Generis coming out. "Honey, we know you are gay. We want you to be funny."
Fun fact, the wikipedia article claims Daphne in this series is a descendant of Kenshin Himura. Yes THAT Kenshin. Idk if that will come up in the show but there you go
When you bring up George Carlin, something that he said that I don't see all that many people talk about is that he wanted to punch UP with his mean humour, and not down. Punching UP is always preferable to punching down.
I've been really poking into this show hard, watching lots of reactions and reviews, and honestly? This is the best piece I've seen on it so far. I think you hit the nail on the head, especially with the bit about 'the wall of protective bullshit'. I'd honestly love to see more of this as more Velma eps are released, because you seem to be getting right to the heart of why this show doesn't work.
I don't think this type of humor works with the Scooby Doo characters. I don't think they need to keep it "safe," characters can certainly be mean to each other, but the problem is the characters in Velma dont seem to like each other. There's a difference between joking around in a vulgar way with your friends and actually wanting to put others down. The scooby cast is meant to be a very tight-knit group of friends, the love "octagon" as you said, they all have special traits and flaws and each were utilized for solving mysteries and each built off on each other. Shaggy and Scooby were cowards but always ran in the direction of clues, Velma was smart to being pedantic but this allows her to predict patterns and solve cryptic mysteries, Daphne may though often getting captured, can hold her own and is extremely clever, and Fred set traps while sometimes overlooking the flaws of them. What one character lacks another would make up for.
We've had mature and dark Scooby-Doo before, and they are universally loved. Scooby Doo on Zombie Island and the Witch's Ghost have stellar animation, story-telling and are "dark" films that treat their audience with respect and intelligence. The same goes for Mystery Inc, one of the BEST Scooby Doo shows out there, with over-arching stories and such.
Though not particularly dark, even What's New, Scooby Doo understood its characters, (in fact, I'd say in terms of keeping true to the source material WNSD beats Mystery Inc)
The dynamic of the characters is what makes Scooby-Doo, well, Scooby-Doo. Even when some are missing from the group, like when it's only Scooby, Shaggy, and Velma, or Scooby, Shaggy, Fred and Velma, and whatever other combinations there have been, the dynamic is still there. Velma doesn't have the dynamic at all. This is where Velma fails the hardest, the characters feel like they could be anyone, the show has no identity.
These characters are supposed to eventually team up to be the Mystery Inc (at least, that's probably what the creators are going for). I honestly feel like these people wouldn't want to be in the same room together unless some people were literally holding guns to their heads.
This is a really nice format, and gives you a chance to present some really smart ideas. I wouldn’t mind seeing more reviews or breakdowns like this.
Haven't seen America wholeheartedly united against a common enemy like this since WWII
It's a shame that for every Last of Us we have probably 10 Velmas
Somebody get Doug to review Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated.
Velma kind of feels redundant when Mike Tyson Mysteries exists.
My biggest problem with this is I don’t mind that the characters are not 100% the same as the predecessors I mean I think Velma’s design is cute in my opinion but, they don’t feel like people that exist even in the real world they’re so saturated with buzzwords and other stereotypes that makes them feel like parodies of specific characters archetypes and they’re done in such ways that don’t even feel consistent like one moment Daphne is this stuck up girl and the next she’s a very goofy person and this can happen in just the same episode. So it’s hard to gauge even their identities at times and the writing isn’t smart enough to do anything with these changes.
The thing about writers is also that a lot of them get positioned to write on certain shows as well. Even if they aren't that into them. Some of the writers on Velma also worked on other non-related shows like Brooklyn Nine Nine and the fourth episode of the show was written by Elijah Aaron, an Emmy nominated TV writer who did several episodes of the sitcom Raising Hope, also has a writing credit on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Bojack Horseman as well as a number of children's shows like Lloyd in Space, the movies based in the show, Recess, and a few others. O.o All I'm saying is sometimes the writers aren't nobodies with no experience. Sometimes they have a resumé.
As for the production team, I am not sure. The main producer of the show is Kandace Reuter who previously worked on two projects, Scooby Doo! The Sword and the Scoob and Aquaman: King of Atlantis, acting as associate producer and line producer respectively; both of which got generally likable reviews on IMDb. She also acted as associate producer in ThunderCats Roar which got negative reviews due to the characters being butchered. She was also production manager on a show called Bunnicula developed by Maxwell Atoms (Billy & Mandy creator).
I'm not entirely sure about the exact tasks of each type of producer like line and associate or assistant and how much say they have in the creative process or if it's all just clerical tasks.
Mindy Kaling acts as executive producer which from my understanding is more legal, financial and/or business paperwork-based decisions rather than creative. I'm not sure to what extent Kaling had creative say since so far she is not credited as writing any episodes (but, correct me if I'm wrong). The other executive producers include Charlie Grande (Charlie Grande Productions) who wrote the first two episodes of Velma and Howard Klein (3 Arts Entertainment), who is a producer and has been credited on numerous films and some other projects by Mindy Kaling (from what I see he is mostly an executive producer, so it's more financial and business than creative. (Grande and Kaling both worked on The Office episodes.
There is also Sam Register who acts as executive producer. Sam Register is considered a legend in the world o TV animation as he one of the big ones responsible for making Cartoon Network the phenomenon that it was in the 90s and 2000s. He is also the one who created the shows Teen Titans and Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi. Overtime he worked his way up and today he is president of Cartoon Network Studios, Warner Bros. Animation and Hanna-Barbera Europe. I seriously doubt Register had any creative input in Velma and his name is on there because he is the president of the animation studio that did the show as well as perhaps having something to do with his position at Hanna-Barbera. In other words is role was pretty much formal/office orientated.
The point is a lot of TV writers just work for the production company and write based on the desires of the producers (which in this case I don't know exactly who is making the decisions on what to write for this show, is it Grandy (creator/lead writer perhaps) Reuters (main producer), or Kaling (executive/lead role), or all three?) O.o
Thank you for reading...
(All the nformation is taken from sources like IMDb and Wikipedia)
You got us in the first half.