Pat, in this video, it was a pleasure to watch, you playing the guitar chatting and joking, aside of Pat I have not seen before an awesome job mate thoroughly enjoyed the show and Doug brilliant as always :-) more more more Please :-) your friend from the UK
We agree, when we say amp we mean everything about it just like when we say "guitar" we mean the bridge, the frets, the tuners-everything. It's great that in the comments these things are being discussed because it's all important. D&P
Hi guys - I'm a local yokel here in Portland, and fellow gearaholic - hope to meet youses one of these days. We have some gear you might like to see. An average guitar through a great amp generally sounds better than a great guitar through an average amp. Since you evaluate "pickups" separately from "guitars", why not "speakers" from "amps"? Changing speakers in an amp generally makes a bigger difference than changing the pickups in guitars, and assuming amps are more important than guitars, that makes changing speakers even more important than pickups. For the money, if you have an average guitar and amp, changing the amp's speaker may make the biggest improvement in your tone..? The player is most important, tone-touch-taste, which comes from the heart. If you don't sound good playing unplugged, amplifying it won't help.
Gentlemen I don't think Im the only one that would like you to do more shows we really like your insights...and can appreciate your experienced knowledge. TY
I love your videos. I watch a lot of guitar channels, but you guys are my favorite. My only complaint is that the videos don't come quick enough. Greatness takes time I guess. Keep up the great work!
I just discovered this channel today and I am really excited about it. Just a couple of regular guys talkin gear and tone.Keep it up guys these are great videos
It has been a long time since I have seen you guys from the last time. But it is good to see you guys though. Don’t beat each other up!!! You guys are like brothers. Peace, Flood!
Mogami Platinum or gold cables make a huge improvement in tone; expensive, but worth it. Anmazon, of all places, sells a gold Mogami with an L-curve and Neutrik, which are silent when removing cable -- very nice. (Could not even find this on Sweetwater or at Guitar Center)
Another great episode. My only complaint is that they don't come out more often, but knowing the time and effort you spend making them, it's certainly understandable. That GA20T was a surprise. What tone! Player, amp, pickups, guitar. It all makes a difference. One thing that people rarely mention is the willingness of the player to explore the combination in front of them. It's pretty easy to dismiss an amp, for example, because it doesn't deliver the specific sound you imagine it should, but play that same amp on another day, without those expectations, with fresh ears, a different attitude going in, and it can be magical. With respect to setup: I was having all sorts of trouble getting the "right" tone out of one of my Teles until, one day, I realized that in all the work I'd been doing to it - changing pickups, wiring, capacitors - I'd screwed up the string height, getting them too low. All that slap and buzz reeked havoc with the guitar's tone. A few minutes with an allen wrench, and it was right as rain. And, hardware: Changing the bridge on that same Tele was the biggest tonal change I made to it. Went from a six-saddle flat plate bridge to an ashtray with compensated brass saddles, and the guitar came alive. So, I made the same change to another Tele, with the same results. I no longer underestimate the effect of hardware on tone and "feel." Finally: Pat, love the pipes included in the shows. As I'm in the industry, I'd love to know what tobaccos you enjoy.
One big aspect of the tone you guys are presenting here is how it was captured in the first place. Mic type and placement as well as recording gear used has a big impact on the tone we are listening to on the video. I would recommend you mention the gear used to record in your video notes to be as transparent as possible. Love the video!
Right-o. We are always trying to record the guitars so that they sound as close to what we hear in the room. We record with Pro Tools, no EQ or compression using an AKG 414 in stereo and a Sennheiser 609 with the both microphones pretty close to the speaker and the 2x12 cabinet pointed at a wall at an angle about a foot away which the 414 picks up. D&P
Thanks for the response. The AKG 414 would clearly help get a good recorded tone. I don't get why you would point the cabinet at a wall when recording though???
We do it because it amplifies the sound in the room and captures a pretty good ambient room sound. The cabinet is at an angle to the wall and tilted up. the 414 is in stereo picking up both sides with the 609 right against the grill cloth. D&P
I am really digging the deluxe That was pieced together. I did the same with a 58 narrow panel deluxe and 59 bassman. Epic amplifiers and buying the chassis was the only way I was going to get to afford them. Another great speaker option for Pat to try is the a12q from Ron at Rec Pro Audios Speed Shop. The speaker sounds like any one of my organ pulls but won't have a meltdown when gigging with it
You have only 1 choice; you MUST BE BRAND LOYAL. If you follow crazy nutters, you'll ruin your life completely! Doug and Pat are nieve and not brand loyal, so the brands will destroy them every second of every day! The brands don't reward customers who only buy 1 item. Any crazy idiot can buy 1 item. You only get rewarded the more items you buy from 1 brand. Facts are facts!
Imho a player like Joe Bonamassa will also rule on "cheaper" equipment but if the components serve his needs, he will sound not only great but excellent. My experience: 1 the player, 2 the guitar, 3 the amp and the rest is tweaking things to one or the other direction. Great show, cool guys! Thanks for sharing!
Gentlemen this was to me the best show you did so far. Unless I hit lottery big time, I’m not going to be able to buy a 59 Standard Les Paul. The pickups, the harness and decent amp will get me pretty close. To answer your question, I heard the biggest difference when you changed the pickups and harness. The amp made a huge difference of course, but it already sounded way better after those 2 changes.
I had a 2016 Les Paul Standard with Burstbucker Pro's and the low end was mush. I put some ThroBak KZ-115 in it and it sounds incredible now. Now if only I could play!
In my opinion to my experience in my experiments and learning the players most important then the guitar then the amplifier but when I say guitar it's guitar Hardware wiring harness then pickups then choice of strings then amplifier because you can make a set of pickups that aren't so great really actually kind of great just by changing the harness type of Hardware and another thing I tried was just trying new magnets in my pickups and it took them to another whole new level. So many ways to do it it's very subjective obviously and it depends on the player and the approach and what you're going after but we're all going after that Classic 59 era Les Paul tone so there's so many ways to go about it but you got to have all the essential Parts in place to achieve this you guys are doing fantastic work miss you guys wish you would come back with a new video so hope you're well
Very interesting. Regarding this particular instance, with you two fine gentlemen, I would agree with your conclusion. The player is THE most important ingredient, however, in my experience, there is a chemistry between all of the variables depending upon the player and how the instrument responds to his / her input. Also, the ear of the listener matters enormously. Perhaps mine have been damaged by far too many loud gigs, both on stage and in the audience ? but sometimes when things sound great to me, other band members go " Nah ! " so it is such a difficult conundrum. I know my lead guitar player, Ryan, makes all my naff sounding guitars and pickups sound like top of the range gear ( to my ears anyway lol ) I always revert back to Jaco Pastorius and his beaten up old bass .... proof, I would suggest, that the essence of tone comes from the fingers and the soul of the player. Thanks fella's - superb content x
I think the fingers > pickups > amp. With solid body electrics, the strings are secured in place by the nut and the saddles and suspended in air over the pickups magnets. When struck, the strings vibrate in the magnetic flux pool generated by the pickup. That vibrating string is what creates the weak electrical signals that go out the jack, to the amp. that’s it, I took the bait. cheers I love your show, thanks Pat and Doug.
I agree, the amp makes a huge difference. Could you guys do an Amp "How to get great tone" test? Your AC10, a modern amp that compares well to that amp and an inexpensive amp that can be modded to get in the ballpark (speaker, caps, wiring)..? Would be great help for us tone searchers who don't have a great vintage amp. Thanks and great show, as always.
The answer is yes. I did it a few years back With an EpiLes Paul and I'm thinking of doing it again with a ////vintage brand Green Moore. In order to do it right I stripped the poly off and lacquered it. Ton of work stripping the poly!
All components mentioned are valid. In the guitar category the scale length significantly changes the voice of the guitar. LP, PRS and Strats using the same pickups will sound different.
At last, Pat plays, and he is even able to fake an “average player” that touches other strings when he plays. Heck, he improved all through the video! I was an amp believer, your video is a proof! Then ... the guitar is not tested I am afraid here but a great test nonetheless and I agree with Pat all along, but love Doug as a player. Anyway guys, I bought an Epiphone pacemaker ‘cause of you and am now on my way to a Devon!
Player is definetely first for me. However i can't quite put the amp above the guitar. It is more about if the combination of guitar and amp fits.Otherwise thanks for this video, guys!
Thought you would have focused a lot more on the single most tone influential ingredient which is speaker selection ! The quantity, eg; 1x12, 2x12, 4x12. The size, eg; 8", 10", 12", 15". The type, eg; V30, G12M, G12T-75, T1511 etc. Of course pick material & thickness, string brand & gauge, pickups, capacitors, guitar lead, effects pedals, amplifier, cab size & build material all contribute :) P.S. love the show guys !
We agree with all of that. We played the Fender stock because for that money that's what you would get. Our point in using the AC10 SRT is that we have now entered the world of "what are you looking for and would you know it if you heard it?" Sounds odd but after both of us spent years working in music stores listening to players who couldn't figure it out even though great amps and guitars were relatively cheap so we gave up. Then came the internet and we're back at it. Doug bought the Vox for $250 with original speaker cabinet. D&P
Great show, I was surprised how much difference the harness made. I wish you’d used a modern Vox AC10C1 rather than the Blues Junior though - I know it’s not a reissue as such but I would love to hear a comparison with your SRT, similar to what you did with the Marshall 18 watt swapping valves and through the same cab
Fender is smarter than you think they are! Gibson doesn't work in fender amps. Even jimi Hendrix knew that fact! The fender coil cable allowed jimi to be able to use his fender guitar in the marshall amp. Jimi Hendrix DIDN'T TELL YOU HE HAD THIS electrical TRICK CABLE. Fender doesn't tell you only fender pickups will activate the fender amp. You're insane!
Ron Light You know what's crazy ? That guy is serious about his outlandish comment, he was ranting about the same exact thing on a Marshall valvestate review video !!!!
It's accurate in Pat's world. He is a deal finder but doesn't buy on Reverb or Ebay or any of the online retailers. He calls dealers (see the tweed Deluxe part of this show) and knows everyone. He gets deals from GC below cost because sometimes they need to move product. He can buy used Bonamassa LP's all day for between $500-$750. The man is a snake. Doug
The Doug and Pat Show * I know you guys are in Oregon, I had a feeling you guys were in my neck of the woods(Eastern Washington) but close enough😉 any how I can ge find super deals around here the past two years I've snagged up a 1981-82 FENDER twin reverb freshly serviced with new tubes and all for $240 ! That was a REALLY great deal but to top that one off he gave me the vintage white face RAT pedal that was Tucked back in the amp cabinet ! And just to PROVE that wasn't a fluke I snagged up a FENDER pro reverb combo amp that is just phenomenal for $240 but the Jensen in it was cracked and deteriorated so I reconed it and play it all the time, both amps came with the applicable footswitch unit. There is ALWAYS good deals out there just waiting to be had. For example I traded a older Mexican telecaster that I only paid $180 for to the SENATOR guitar shop for a silver face 1969-71 Bassman 50 head that just rocks ! I would have got the speaker cab too but he wanted like more for the speaker than the head unit. Any way didn't mean to turn this into a musical life story, I just wanted to give my experience with good deals, I have NEVER spent more THAN $300 on a guitar or amp and I have Gibson,PRS, fender, Danelectro, epiphone Marshall, peavey,Grestch (it's in the case now so forgive the misspelling) all the big names in the music instrument world and NEVER paid more than $300 for any one guitar or amp, more like $ *180-240* price range and it's all super high quality stuff made in the USA,UK,fujigengakki,cort factory, PRS world factory. You get the picture high quality products at the bare minimum spent. I won't spend my MONEY at all unless it's super high quality stuff at ridiculously low price, and I suspect that's kinda what Doug does when he spends his cash😉
@@DFraserHomes I was just reading the comments section to see if this had been addressed, because I've hunted for a used one online for the past two years. Could you please ask Pat to buy me two? I'll pay a reasonable finder's fee. Thank you! (The guitar's unique construction features are the thick neck profile and deep set neck joint tenon, which can't be found on other models by any manufacturer, as far as I've been able to tell).
Great show guys. Have you considered making a Kemper profile of the Vox and first compare it to the original and if it’s good sell the download on your website? Although I have a feeling the Kemper will not capture all the nuances.
Doug makes guitars sound amazing! That being said... I still want one of those Vox AC10 amps he’s always using, cuz it does make his playing sound even better than it already, wonderfully is. Bam! It might make me sound better, too. Pat... you done did good, Bro!
I don't necessarily disagree but I was pretty surprised at the pots/harness difference. In fairness the guys at Bare Knuckles strongly recommended their pots with the Mules,which were actually a bit different in values and very close tolerance.
We learned the hard way about pot values and our own ignorance of them with the Heritage and changing pickups, of which none ever had a chance to do what they could do because the 250K pots wouldn't allow the top end through which was needed with PAF type pickups. Huge difference but not the only thing to consider of course. D&P
Yeah, I had a Heritage 335 style and it always sounded better acoustically than electrically even after I put Wolfetone Legends in it. In retrospect I think it was the pots.
Our Heritage H150 that came with 250K pots is a 94 that had Schaller pickups in it. It also sounded better acoustically than plugged in and pickup changes didn't help until the pots were changed to 500K (or so) to match the pickups. Good thing to know about as one could spend a lot of money on pickups and never know why they just don't sound good. D&P
I think the mic just colors everything up the same and its difficult to differentiate in the recordings. I'm sure its a different ball game in the room.
Rod Bell I agree. I did that with my Hot Rod Deluxe. It sounds like a completely different amp. I put an Eminence Red White and Blues in it. Best money ever spent on an amp. It Rolls off the highs and tightened up the bottom.
Hi guys, fantastic show. I'm wondering is your Gibson Ranger completely stock, or just had a grounded power cord added, or has anything more been done to it?
The relief in the neck is correct, truss not too tight and not really any fret buzz. But we use 9.5 gauge and if you are a hard player it's a different guitar than if you are a hard player with a quarter for a pick. Doug cranks the guitar and plays with a lighter touch to let the amp do the work to get what he wants. It might not be for everyone which also pretty much covers everything: it might not be for everyone. D&P
I started tightening the truss rod on my les Paul after watching a UA-cam video of JBs guitar tech Mike Dickie and Dan Erlewine talk of a tight vs loose truss rod on a les Paul. Any who, this is my favorite video yet. Cool To see Pat play and it really shows how much the player makes a difference in tone.
In my experience the anr-1 and tailpiece is more important than the pickups....faber make great tailpiece and abr-1 bridges. That along with a 50s wiring
I have a 2014 traditional that i rewired with cts pots bb caps in the fiftys style. Put a bigsby on it and i think it sound good but its claim to fame is the 1959 pups. I would love to see a comparison to a simular guitar vrs oscar or the birst as i will never get to hold such a great guitar and wonder if im even in the ball park. Im thinkin way out in left feid but.....love your humor. Ps i actually looked up the band geezer.pps you dint talk about picks vs pick vs fingers thats got to be responsable for something. Ive been playng for 30 + Years and still can decide on one .somtimes it a 2mm and sometimes its a .73
You left out the SPEAKER, which is where the sound comes out, so kind of important to the tone of the sound - no? Pure nickel round core strings made with superior metals, like Stringjoy and Pyramid use, are a much better value and playing experience compared to regular D'Addario or Ernie Ball etc., which tend to stretch and stretch and stretch until they go dead. Stringjoy and Pyramid pure nickel round core only stretch a little at first, then stay in tune, and don't keep stretching until going dead like the others. They play better, are more flexible so you can use heavier wound strings, for me 9-46 instead of 9-42. They also last at least 2-3 times longer, so well worth paying twice as much for. Another benefit is they won't wear-out your frets like nickel coated strings do, because the coating quickly wears down to the steel and then wears down the nickel-silver frets, even Jescar which are harder than most others. If you have stainless steel frets then maybe you won't wear them out, but you're still better off with pure nickel round cores for the reasons mentioned above. Give them a try - almost everybody is a convert after trying them. I'll never use anything else, except maybe flat-wound...? Cheers!!
Doug got that shirt from a friend who copied it from a shirt a stage hand was wearing at a show implying the attitude of the crews who run monitors, do lights, stuff like that. We thought it was hilarious. No Phil X reference. D&P
Guys, thank you for posting another great show. Informative and funny, as always! I wasn't going to ever razz you guys about the 250K pots in the Heritage, but since you brought it up here, what was your guys' theory as to what was "wrong" with the Heritage before you figured it out? Here's another age old question for you. Would you rather have a great amp with a cheapo guitar (that at least stays in tune), or a cheapy amp paired with a great guitar? Thanks again guys!!
The value of the pots has a huge impact on the high end so it's really a match up with pickups and what you want to hear. The Heritage came stock in '94 with Schaller pickups which were super bright so those 250K pots settled them down a bit like in a Strat. But a PAF style humbucker was voiced differently and needed a matchup of a 500K or higher pot. We've learned a lot from our viewers over the years. D&P
Agree with your assessments. Guitar vs pickup is debatable but I say pickup matters more when you're in the same class of guitar. This was a vid I was waiting for, and it would have been great to hear the final studio rig compare with your R7 or something high end. Lastly, to my ears those tweed deluxes are phenomenal and I landed an Allen Accomplice (older version, tweed) and I can't stop playing it. Would love to see you guys compare tweed delxues to that holy grail vox! 🎸
online, where the pickups are the only things that matter and even suggesting your other electronics (much less the rest of the guitar) could have an effect results in your being downvoted into oblivion.
No, we used the stock speaker in the Fender and used the vintage G12 alnico Celestions we always use with the Vox. We think that when we say "amp" we mean all elements of it including tubes, speakers and everything. D&P
Aaron Brown, I agree. I’ve tried other pickups and I’ve never noticed enough of a difference to justify the cost for me. Amps, IMO, are just tailored toward the generic sound you’re looking for. Your fingers and technique create the tone though.
The Yota Tech oh i notice a big difference from the pickups.... all my pickups made my guitars sound great... and I've had throbaks wizz Stephen design ox4 electric city etc etc really really high end stuff
How about How Do You Get That Tone show #3 ...that goes very value conscious like an Epiphone LP Special with stock, these Bonamassa pickups, and the 'boutique' pickups, plus pots 'wiring harness' and a solid state amp like a Peavey Bandit or Orange 35RT.
honestly, considering the player out, because to me each guitar player is so different from the next that its pointless to compare: 1-AMP 2-Pickups 3-Guitar 4-Wiring
If you are replacing defective or worn-out tubes, you will hear a big improvement in the tone. But if you are just "tube rolling" (experimenting with different new and NOS tubes to get different tones) then the difference will be a lot more subtle. BTW, the "V1" tube (the first preamp tube in your amp circuit) has the most impact on your tone.
Number 1: Recording equipment. Note that this includes the ears of the receiving listener. In an extreme example, a deaf person wont know if the guitar or amp is priority.
Although a Blues Jr. isn't high on my list of affordable amps I wish the guys had done what they did with the guitar and changed speaker and tubes in the amp. It can be better than that.
What we were trying to do was address the requests we receive from players asking for our opinion on what is the best PAF clone for them. The thing we don't know about the players who are inquiring is covered in this show. We agree that a speaker change is significant but that is another can of worms. What we are doing is asking players to assess their own equipment and playing technique to find their own answers just like we have done. Sure, a Blues Junior III isn't a great amp but that's our opinion, what is the opinion of the rest of the players? We also think that vintage tubes sound better than new ones and not maybe but they are expensive as are good speakers and we were trying to keep the budget down and at the same time ask the questions more than give the answers. We want to participate in the discussion not end it. That's what we were trying to do in this video. D&P
I say (in this order), 1=The player, 2= the pickups, The amp, et al . Even a great player can sound lousy if the pickups are muddy and the Amp is average...
Just discovered this show tonight! Now I finally have a new show to watch with my coffee in the morning, starting the day inspired!
Pat, in this video, it was a pleasure to watch, you playing the guitar chatting and joking, aside of Pat I have not seen before an awesome job mate thoroughly enjoyed the show and Doug brilliant as always :-) more more more Please :-) your friend from the UK
You could set me up with a 59 Les Paul and your VOX amp and I would still sound like poop.
The speaker(s) have the biggest effect on tone than any other 1 factor in my experience
Speaker was left off the list. Different speakers make a huge difference that can be immediately heard.
We agree, when we say amp we mean everything about it just like when we say "guitar" we mean the bridge, the frets, the tuners-everything. It's great that in the comments these things are being discussed because it's all important. D&P
Hi guys - I'm a local yokel here in Portland, and fellow gearaholic - hope to meet youses one of these days. We have some gear you might like to see.
An average guitar through a great amp generally sounds better than a great guitar through an average amp. Since you evaluate "pickups" separately from "guitars", why not "speakers" from "amps"? Changing speakers in an amp generally makes a bigger difference than changing the pickups in guitars, and assuming amps are more important than guitars, that makes changing speakers even more important than pickups. For the money, if you have an average guitar and amp, changing the amp's speaker may make the biggest improvement in your tone..?
The player is most important, tone-touch-taste, which comes from the heart. If you don't sound good playing unplugged, amplifying it won't help.
They just added a new video that's going to dig into this, with Joe Bonamassa! Check it out!
Gentlemen I don't think Im the only one that would like you to do more shows we really like your insights...and can appreciate your experienced knowledge. TY
Pat, I have seen you and Chris for 20 years and never knew you had this in you! GREAT JOB! I now know who to ask!
One of the most thought provoking and best shows yet. Really good.
Thanks Guys. Keep 'em coming.
I love your videos. I watch a lot of guitar channels, but you guys are my favorite. My only complaint is that the videos don't come quick enough. Greatness takes time I guess.
Keep up the great work!
I just discovered this channel today and I am really excited about it. Just a couple of regular guys talkin gear and tone.Keep it up guys these are great videos
"Tesla with a hemi" LOL!
It has been a long time since I have seen you guys from the last time. But it is good to see you guys though. Don’t beat each other up!!! You guys are like brothers. Peace, Flood!
Mogami Platinum or gold cables make a huge improvement in tone; expensive, but worth it. Anmazon, of all places, sells a gold Mogami with an L-curve and Neutrik, which are silent when removing cable -- very nice. (Could not even find this on Sweetwater or at Guitar Center)
Another great episode. My only complaint is that they don't come out more often, but knowing the time and effort you spend making them, it's certainly understandable. That GA20T was a surprise. What tone!
Player, amp, pickups, guitar. It all makes a difference. One thing that people rarely mention is the willingness of the player to explore the combination in front of them. It's pretty easy to dismiss an amp, for example, because it doesn't deliver the specific sound you imagine it should, but play that same amp on another day, without those expectations, with fresh ears, a different attitude going in, and it can be magical.
With respect to setup: I was having all sorts of trouble getting the "right" tone out of one of my Teles until, one day, I realized that in all the work I'd been doing to it - changing pickups, wiring, capacitors - I'd screwed up the string height, getting them too low. All that slap and buzz reeked havoc with the guitar's tone. A few minutes with an allen wrench, and it was right as rain.
And, hardware: Changing the bridge on that same Tele was the biggest tonal change I made to it. Went from a six-saddle flat plate bridge to an ashtray with compensated brass saddles, and the guitar came alive. So, I made the same change to another Tele, with the same results. I no longer underestimate the effect of hardware on tone and "feel."
Finally: Pat, love the pipes included in the shows. As I'm in the industry, I'd love to know what tobaccos you enjoy.
One big aspect of the tone you guys are presenting here is how it was captured in the first place. Mic type and placement as well as recording gear used has a big impact on the tone we are listening to on the video. I would recommend you mention the gear used to record in your video notes to be as transparent as possible. Love the video!
Right-o. We are always trying to record the guitars so that they sound as close to what we hear in the room. We record with Pro Tools, no EQ or compression using an AKG 414 in stereo and a Sennheiser 609 with the both microphones pretty close to the speaker and the 2x12 cabinet pointed at a wall at an angle about a foot away which the 414 picks up. D&P
Thanks for the response. The AKG 414 would clearly help get a good recorded tone. I don't get why you would point the cabinet at a wall when recording though???
We do it because it amplifies the sound in the room and captures a pretty good ambient room sound. The cabinet is at an angle to the wall and tilted up. the 414 is in stereo picking up both sides with the 609 right against the grill cloth. D&P
Guys! Please make more frequent videos. I need more and more... Doug and Pat galore!!!
I'll be wearing my hat proudly, as soon as it gets here! And, I'm eagerly awaiting the next show! We need more Doug and Pat! 😎
Got it today, guys! Thank you!
I am really digging the deluxe That was pieced together. I did the same with a 58 narrow panel deluxe and 59 bassman. Epic amplifiers and buying the chassis was the only way I was going to get to afford them. Another great speaker option for Pat to try is the a12q from Ron at Rec Pro Audios Speed Shop. The speaker sounds like any one of my organ pulls but won't have a meltdown when gigging with it
I spent all that money on gear, and now you are saying I’m the problem with my tone.....dang it!
You have only 1 choice; you MUST BE BRAND LOYAL. If you follow crazy nutters, you'll ruin your life completely! Doug and Pat are nieve and not brand loyal, so the brands will destroy them every second of every day! The brands don't reward customers who only buy 1 item. Any crazy idiot can buy 1 item. You only get rewarded the more items you buy from 1 brand. Facts are facts!
I’m going all in with one brand-it’s better than practicing
Imho a player like Joe Bonamassa will also rule on "cheaper" equipment but if the components serve his needs, he will sound not only great but excellent.
My experience: 1 the player, 2 the guitar, 3 the amp and the rest is tweaking things to one or the other direction. Great show, cool guys! Thanks for sharing!
Gentlemen this was to me the best show you did so far. Unless I hit lottery big time, I’m not going to be able to buy a 59 Standard Les Paul. The pickups, the harness and decent amp will get me pretty close. To answer your question, I heard the biggest difference when you changed the pickups and harness. The amp made a huge difference of course, but it already sounded way better after those 2 changes.
Always love your shows, absolutely great to see pat playing at last! Keep up the fab work guys.
Best wishes 🇬🇧
Pat playing .... I think I need to lie down.
I had a 2016 Les Paul Standard with Burstbucker Pro's and the low end was mush. I put some ThroBak KZ-115 in it and it sounds incredible now. Now if only I could play!
In my opinion to my experience in my experiments and learning the players most important then the guitar then the amplifier but when I say guitar it's guitar Hardware wiring harness then pickups then choice of strings then amplifier because you can make a set of pickups that aren't so great really actually kind of great just by changing the harness type of Hardware and another thing I tried was just trying new magnets in my pickups and it took them to another whole new level. So many ways to do it it's very subjective obviously and it depends on the player and the approach and what you're going after but we're all going after that Classic 59 era Les Paul tone so there's so many ways to go about it but you got to have all the essential Parts in place to achieve this you guys are doing fantastic work miss you guys wish you would come back with a new video so hope you're well
Very interesting. Regarding this particular instance, with you two fine gentlemen, I would agree with your conclusion. The player is THE most important ingredient, however, in my experience, there is a chemistry between all of the variables depending upon the player and how the instrument responds to his / her input. Also, the ear of the listener matters enormously. Perhaps mine have been damaged by far too many loud gigs, both on stage and in the audience ? but sometimes when things sound great to me, other band members go " Nah ! " so it is such a difficult conundrum. I know my lead guitar player, Ryan, makes all my naff sounding guitars and pickups sound like top of the range gear ( to my ears anyway lol ) I always revert back to Jaco Pastorius and his beaten up old bass .... proof, I would suggest, that the essence of tone comes from the fingers and the soul of the player. Thanks fella's - superb content x
I think the fingers > pickups > amp. With solid body electrics, the strings are secured in place by the nut and the saddles and suspended in air over the pickups magnets.
When struck, the strings vibrate in the magnetic flux pool generated by the pickup.
That vibrating string is what creates the weak electrical signals that go out the jack, to the amp. that’s it, I took the bait. cheers I love your show, thanks Pat and Doug.
Also a suggestion for a future show: what amp currently in production comes closest to the Vox? : )
Good idea
I agree, the amp makes a huge difference.
Could you guys do an Amp "How to get great tone" test? Your AC10, a modern amp that compares well to that amp and an inexpensive amp that can be modded to get in the ballpark (speaker, caps, wiring)..? Would be great help for us tone searchers who don't have a great vintage amp. Thanks and great show, as always.
I've lived to see him playing hahaha good show! Cheers from brazil
I stopped practicing/ playing to watch you blokes 🇬🇧
Brilliant show.
I noodled right through it...!
The answer is yes. I did it a few years back With an EpiLes Paul and I'm thinking of doing it again with a ////vintage brand Green Moore. In order to do it right I stripped the poly off and lacquered it. Ton of work stripping the poly!
All components mentioned are valid. In the guitar category the scale length significantly changes the voice of the guitar. LP, PRS and Strats using the same pickups will sound different.
we need more episodes!
At last, Pat plays, and he is even able to fake an “average player” that touches other strings when he plays. Heck, he improved all through the video!
I was an amp believer, your video is a proof! Then ... the guitar is not tested I am afraid here but a great test nonetheless and I agree with Pat all along, but love Doug as a player. Anyway guys, I bought an Epiphone pacemaker ‘cause of you and am now on my way to a Devon!
BTW, Try some of the VIP Long Shaft Pots! Those sounds great!! Even their normal(short) shafts sound very close to the original Centralabs.
Agreed, we have some and Sebastian did a great job getting those made. D&P
Player is definetely first for me. However i can't quite put the amp above the guitar. It is more about if the combination of guitar and amp fits.Otherwise thanks for this video, guys!
That vox is just ridiculous
Guys, you could just stop the tone test once you got to about the 17 minute mark. Wow, that Vox amp is incredible!
Thought you would have focused a lot more on the single most tone influential ingredient which is speaker selection !
The quantity, eg; 1x12, 2x12, 4x12.
The size, eg; 8", 10", 12", 15".
The type, eg; V30, G12M, G12T-75, T1511 etc.
Of course pick material & thickness, string brand & gauge, pickups, capacitors, guitar lead, effects pedals, amplifier, cab size & build material all contribute :)
P.S. love the show guys !
We agree with all of that. We played the Fender stock because for that money that's what you would get. Our point in using the AC10 SRT is that we have now entered the world of "what are you looking for and would you know it if you heard it?" Sounds odd but after both of us spent years working in music stores listening to players who couldn't figure it out even though great amps and guitars were relatively cheap so we gave up. Then came the internet and we're back at it. Doug bought the Vox for $250 with original speaker cabinet. D&P
The speaker is a factor as well. The size, material, construction ect...
All the best lead tone I've ever heard from you guys is through that Vox AC10.
Great show, I was surprised how much difference the harness made. I wish you’d used a modern Vox AC10C1 rather than the Blues Junior though - I know it’s not a reissue as such but I would love to hear a comparison with your SRT, similar to what you did with the Marshall 18 watt swapping valves and through the same cab
1. The Player.
2. Guitar/Amplifier (tie).
3. The Pickups.
6:05 why did you wear long sleeves? And not before?
speaker issue with the Blues Jr.
Fender is smarter than you think they are! Gibson doesn't work in fender amps. Even jimi Hendrix knew that fact! The fender coil cable allowed jimi to be able to use his fender guitar in the marshall amp. Jimi Hendrix DIDN'T TELL YOU HE HAD THIS electrical TRICK CABLE. Fender doesn't tell you only fender pickups will activate the fender amp. You're insane!
Ron Light You know what's crazy ? That guy is serious about his outlandish comment, he was ranting about the same exact thing on a Marshall valvestate review video !!!!
The cheapest bonamassa LP studio I could find was $1400. and that seems to be average. So under $1000 is not accurate.
It's accurate in Pat's world. He is a deal finder but doesn't buy on Reverb or Ebay or any of the online retailers. He calls dealers (see the tweed Deluxe part of this show) and knows everyone. He gets deals from GC below cost because sometimes they need to move product. He can buy used Bonamassa LP's all day for between $500-$750. The man is a snake. Doug
The Doug and Pat Show * I know you guys are in Oregon, I had a feeling you guys were in my neck of the woods(Eastern Washington) but close enough😉 any how I can ge find super deals around here the past two years I've snagged up a 1981-82 FENDER twin reverb freshly serviced with new tubes and all for $240 ! That was a REALLY great deal but to top that one off he gave me the vintage white face RAT pedal that was Tucked back in the amp cabinet !
And just to PROVE that wasn't a fluke I snagged up a FENDER pro reverb combo amp that is just phenomenal for $240 but the Jensen in it was cracked and deteriorated so I reconed it and play it all the time, both amps came with the applicable footswitch unit.
There is ALWAYS good deals out there just waiting to be had. For example I traded a older Mexican telecaster that I only paid $180 for to the SENATOR guitar shop for a silver face 1969-71 Bassman 50 head that just rocks ! I would have got the speaker cab too but he wanted like more for the speaker than the head unit.
Any way didn't mean to turn this into a musical life story, I just wanted to give my experience with good deals, I have NEVER spent more THAN $300 on a guitar or amp and I have Gibson,PRS, fender, Danelectro, epiphone Marshall, peavey,Grestch (it's in the case now so forgive the misspelling) all the big names in the music instrument world and NEVER paid more than $300 for any one guitar or amp, more like $ *180-240* price range and it's all super high quality stuff made in the USA,UK,fujigengakki,cort factory, PRS world factory. You get the picture high quality products at the bare minimum spent. I won't spend my MONEY at all unless it's super high quality stuff at ridiculously low price, and I suspect that's kinda what Doug does when he spends his cash😉
@@DFraserHomes I was just reading the comments section to see if this had been addressed, because I've hunted for a used one online for the past two years. Could you please ask Pat to buy me two? I'll pay a reasonable finder's fee. Thank you! (The guitar's unique construction features are the thick neck profile and deep set neck joint tenon, which can't be found on other models by any manufacturer, as far as I've been able to tell).
thisperfectworld which guitar are you talking about?
Great show guys. Have you considered making a Kemper profile of the Vox and first compare it to the original and if it’s good sell the download on your website? Although I have a feeling the Kemper will not capture all the nuances.
A Kemper profile!? Sacrilege, I say!
they did！！！
Instead of swapping out the pickups, is using an EQ pedal fair in this test? I'd try that first. Love the show BTW. Big Bonamassa fan too.
Holy shit! Pat played guitar! Awesome! Love this show!
I'd like to see, with all other things being the same, different wiring harness.
Doug makes guitars sound amazing! That being said... I still want one of those Vox AC10 amps he’s always using, cuz it does make his playing sound even better than it already, wonderfully is. Bam! It might make me sound better, too. Pat... you done did good, Bro!
Most people upgrade the speaker on the blues junior. A good speaker on the blues junior makes a huge difference.
I don't necessarily disagree but I was pretty surprised at the pots/harness difference. In fairness the guys at Bare Knuckles strongly recommended their pots with the Mules,which were actually a bit different in values and very close tolerance.
We learned the hard way about pot values and our own ignorance of them with the Heritage and changing pickups, of which none ever had a chance to do what they could do because the 250K pots wouldn't allow the top end through which was needed with PAF type pickups. Huge difference but not the only thing to consider of course. D&P
Yeah, I had a Heritage 335 style and it always sounded better acoustically than electrically even after I put Wolfetone Legends in it. In retrospect I think it was the pots.
Our Heritage H150 that came with 250K pots is a 94 that had Schaller pickups in it. It also sounded better acoustically than plugged in and pickup changes didn't help until the pots were changed to 500K (or so) to match the pickups. Good thing to know about as one could spend a lot of money on pickups and never know why they just don't sound good. D&P
I think the mic just colors everything up the same and its difficult to differentiate in the recordings. I'm sure its a different ball game in the room.
say man where that amplifier you were playing the 1965 vox srt I can't find one
Pat, I would love to hear that Fender Deluxe amp. Great show guys.
.... uhhh, on what planet can I get one of those Gibson Joe Bonamassa LPs for $500?.... PLEASE tell me!!
the tubes! i wish you'll do a nos preamp tube shootout with 60's mullard rca and ge .tubes for the amp's tone are like pickups for the guitar tone
I would have loved to see a speaker swap with the Fender just to see what that did or play the Vox through the Fender speaker
Rod Bell I agree. I did that with my Hot Rod Deluxe. It sounds like a completely different amp. I put an Eminence Red White and Blues in it. Best money ever spent on an amp. It Rolls off the highs and tightened up the bottom.
I also changed the stock 10" in my Fender Pro Jr to a Jensen, and it was a whole new amp after!
I love your theme tune. Beautiful.
Great show... when the player is the most important thing, how much does the guitar "feed back" to the player to get better?
Fender amps can sound very wooly on the bass side .
Great stuff begging thru the end
What were the settings on the blues jr??
I know you've tried some pretty expensive pickups on your channel but I'd love to know what you thing is the best sounding budget PAF style pickup?
Some of the best budget PAFs I’ve used are Guitar Fetish Alnico 2 professional series PAF’s. $39 each.
You've probably said before but: what are the settings on the Vox? I guess I'm curious at what volume does it get that sweet break up?
The amp breaks up quickly with the preamp tubes in it so it's about the equivalent of 3. D&P
Hi guys, fantastic show. I'm wondering is your Gibson Ranger completely stock, or just had a grounded power cord added, or has anything more been done to it?
The amp is stock including original power cord and tubes. It's due for a trip to Sour Sound where Bryan Sour services all of our amplifiers. D&P
The Doug and Pat Show Wow! Thank you!
OMG Pat actually played!!! Awesome!!!
In reference to that weird tone on the A and the “loose” bottom end....is the truss rod tight? How much relief in the neck?
The relief in the neck is correct, truss not too tight and not really any fret buzz. But we use 9.5 gauge and if you are a hard player it's a different guitar than if you are a hard player with a quarter for a pick. Doug cranks the guitar and plays with a lighter touch to let the amp do the work to get what he wants. It might not be for everyone which also pretty much covers everything: it might not be for everyone. D&P
I started tightening the truss rod on my les Paul after watching a UA-cam video of JBs guitar tech Mike Dickie and Dan Erlewine talk of a tight vs loose truss rod on a les Paul.
Any who, this is my favorite video yet. Cool
To see Pat play and it really shows how much the player makes a difference in tone.
Love these guys!
In my experience the anr-1 and tailpiece is more important than the pickups....faber make great tailpiece and abr-1 bridges. That along with a 50s wiring
I have a 2014 traditional that i rewired with cts pots bb caps in the fiftys style. Put a bigsby on it and i think it sound good but its claim to fame is the 1959 pups. I would love to see a comparison to a simular guitar vrs oscar or the birst as i will never get to hold such a great guitar and wonder if im even in the ball park. Im thinkin way out in left feid but.....love your humor. Ps i actually looked up the band geezer.pps you dint talk about picks vs pick vs fingers thats got to be responsable for something. Ive been playng for 30 + Years and still can decide on one .somtimes it a 2mm and sometimes its a .73
You left out the SPEAKER, which is where the sound comes out, so kind of important to the tone of the sound - no? Pure nickel round core strings made with superior metals, like Stringjoy and Pyramid use, are a much better value and playing experience compared to regular D'Addario or Ernie Ball etc., which tend to stretch and stretch and stretch until they go dead. Stringjoy and Pyramid pure nickel round core only stretch a little at first, then stay in tune, and don't keep stretching until going dead like the others. They play better, are more flexible so you can use heavier wound strings, for me 9-46 instead of 9-42. They also last at least 2-3 times longer, so well worth paying twice as much for. Another benefit is they won't wear-out your frets like nickel coated strings do, because the coating quickly wears down to the steel and then wears down the nickel-silver frets, even Jescar which are harder than most others. If you have stainless steel frets then maybe you won't wear them out, but you're still better off with pure nickel round cores for the reasons mentioned above. Give them a try - almost everybody is a convert after trying them. I'll never use anything else, except maybe flat-wound...? Cheers!!
I’ve been curious to hear a Gibson with Epiphone pickups against an Epiphone with Gibson pickups. Perhaps a 335 vs the dot.
I love your show. Do one about the so called Gary Clark Jr sg gibson guitar
When are you guys going to do a SG episode?
Is Doug wearing a Phil X ref. on his t-shirt? o.o
Doug got that shirt from a friend who copied it from a shirt a stage hand was wearing at a show implying the attitude of the crews who run monitors, do lights, stuff like that. We thought it was hilarious. No Phil X reference. D&P
Thanks. My ref. ua-cam.com/video/fzW0GZU-hds/v-deo.html
Finally, we get to see Pat play!!!1
Guys, thank you for posting another great show. Informative and funny, as always! I wasn't going to ever razz you guys about the 250K pots in the Heritage, but since you brought it up here, what was your guys' theory as to what was "wrong" with the Heritage before you figured it out? Here's another age old question for you. Would you rather have a great amp with a cheapo guitar (that at least stays in tune), or a cheapy amp paired with a great guitar? Thanks again guys!!
The value of the pots has a huge impact on the high end so it's really a match up with pickups and what you want to hear. The Heritage came stock in '94 with Schaller pickups which were super bright so those 250K pots settled them down a bit like in a Strat. But a PAF style humbucker was voiced differently and needed a matchup of a 500K or higher pot. We've learned a lot from our viewers over the years. D&P
In our experience doing the show and playing almost everything through the Vox we'd take the amp. Nothing sounds bad or even mediocre through it. D&P
Agree with your assessments. Guitar vs pickup is debatable but I say pickup matters more when you're in the same class of guitar. This was a vid I was waiting for, and it would have been great to hear the final studio rig compare with your R7 or something high end.
Lastly, to my ears those tweed deluxes are phenomenal and I landed an Allen Accomplice (older version, tweed) and I can't stop playing it. Would love to see you guys compare tweed delxues to that holy grail vox! 🎸
online, where the pickups are the only things that matter and even suggesting your other electronics (much less the rest of the guitar) could have an effect results in your being downvoted into oblivion.
To be fair I wonder if the same speaker was used in the testing?
No, we used the stock speaker in the Fender and used the vintage G12 alnico Celestions we always use with the Vox. We think that when we say "amp" we mean all elements of it including tubes, speakers and everything. D&P
So Pat can play. Interesting experiment. If number one is the player I’m in trouble 😀. I’ve been chasing tone via pickups, wiring, guitars.
MOST of it is THE PLAYER! Doug, you can rip it!
Backwards knobs on the Bonamassa. I guess that's how Pat likes them
thats how they came stock
Pat is right.... it is your hands and the amplifier
Aaron Brown, I agree. I’ve tried other pickups and I’ve never noticed enough of a difference to justify the cost for me. Amps, IMO, are just tailored toward the generic sound you’re looking for. Your fingers and technique create the tone though.
The Yota Tech oh i notice a big difference from the pickups.... all my pickups made my guitars sound great... and I've had throbaks wizz Stephen design ox4 electric city etc etc really really high end stuff
How about How Do You Get That Tone show #3 ...that goes very value conscious like an Epiphone LP Special with stock, these Bonamassa pickups, and the 'boutique' pickups, plus pots 'wiring harness' and a solid state amp like a Peavey Bandit or Orange 35RT.
Crikey Pat, You are alright !
I have a 1997 LP Custom w/stock 300k pots ... not bright enough. Will change to 500k pots.
honestly, considering the player out, because to me each guitar player is so different from the next that its pointless to compare:
1-AMP
2-Pickups
3-Guitar
4-Wiring
What about tubes?????? Do they make a difference???? Great show by the way!!!!
Tubes can make a big difference, but unless you are replacing defective or worn-out tubes, the difference is pretty subtle.
Schlumbucket Returns you just said they can make a big difference but the difference is pretty subtle :/ I'm confused.
If you are replacing defective or worn-out tubes, you will hear a big improvement in the tone. But if you are just "tube rolling" (experimenting with different new and NOS tubes to get different tones) then the difference will be a lot more subtle. BTW, the "V1" tube (the first preamp tube in your amp circuit) has the most impact on your tone.
Number 1: Recording equipment. Note that this includes the ears of the receiving listener. In an extreme example, a deaf person wont know if the guitar or amp is priority.
Although a Blues Jr. isn't high on my list of affordable amps I wish the guys had done what they did with the guitar and changed speaker and tubes in the amp. It can be better than that.
What we were trying to do was address the requests we receive from players asking for our opinion on what is the best PAF clone for them. The thing we don't know about the players who are inquiring is covered in this show. We agree that a speaker change is significant but that is another can of worms. What we are doing is asking players to assess their own equipment and playing technique to find their own answers just like we have done. Sure, a Blues Junior III isn't a great amp but that's our opinion, what is the opinion of the rest of the players? We also think that vintage tubes sound better than new ones and not maybe but they are expensive as are good speakers and we were trying to keep the budget down and at the same time ask the questions more than give the answers. We want to participate in the discussion not end it. That's what we were trying to do in this video. D&P
Understood. I guess I'm confused. I thought you guys just did these for me... :-)
Great episode as always! What about beanies? 🤔 My son Robert is watching over my shoulder and he says “hey, I know those guys!”
Welcome back boys !!!!!!
Hey what about those cheap priced GFS Pickups?? I LOVE EM" Rickey~ Chehalis WA
I hear that if Pat plays, 'the Rev-Billy will come !
I say (in this order), 1=The player, 2= the pickups, The amp, et al . Even a great player can sound lousy if the pickups are muddy and the Amp is average...