The Doug and Pat Show / Still Crazy After All These Years - Part One
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Doug and Pat return to their favorite subjects in this two part opus: PAF pickups, PAF clones and their construction, the bottom line on wiring harnesses, and talk about the old days when they were buying and using Les Paul "bursts" in the 1970s. Thanks to Five Star Guitars, Ben Murray, P.ete A. F.lynn and Sean from Gunstreet. We were going to call it "Not Dead Yet" but couldn't guarantee how long that would be true. D&P
I think Pat has just talked more in the last hour than he has in the last 14 years! Welcome back gents
right!
Intelligent questions and patience to let him answer, plus Pat's savvy.
always a good day when Doug & Pat are back .... & it's extra good .... back twice !
I've spent the past week watching reruns like a porn addict. Thanks for being Doug & Pat!
Whoa, a new Doug and Pat episode. Hit pause and grab a cup of coffee, and savor it…and I really mean the show. Love you guys.
The world 🌎 just got better with a new Pat and Doug show .🙏
I woke this morning with no idea it was going to be such a great day.
Thanks for all the content Guys.
Like a shaft of light.. .boom!
Thank you!
I always enjoy the Doug and Pat show: it's excellent. Best guitar show ever.
These all sound great, but I think I liked the sound of the '58 best. Just awesome! Thanks guys!
How do you guys not have 1 million subscriptions lol you guys are awesome. The fact that I absolutely love the subjects is icing on the cake.
Did you say if Pat's Les Paul had potted or unpotted pickups? Fun show! Thanks!
We assume they are unpotted as all early Gibson humbuckings were, but the covers have never been off the pickups. D&P
@@DFraserHomes Thank you so much for your reply. I kind of thought PAF pickups were all made unpotted back then, which leads me to ask: why are so many PAF reissue pickups built potted if they are trying to recreate the vintage PAF sound. Doesn't that process affect the sound? Thanks again!
@@bigdaddystinkeyeI have asked myself the same question and I can only assume they are trying to accommodate the high gain crowd or it's a hangover from the 70s and 80s when everyone had huge amps onstage at huge volumes and feedback was a very real problem. In the experiments I've done I've always been disappointed when I wax pot a PAF, I believe there is a microphonic aspect to the sound that can be be managed perfectly fine by using butyrate bobbins and maple spacers and avoiding a tight dense coil, all this reduces the resonant frequencies of the parts and that has the effect of rolling of the most extreme frequencies which avoids high pitched squealing feedback but leaves you with delicious, manageable natural feedback when and if you want it.
@@murrayguitarpickups9545 Thank you for the explanation. Not potting the pickups seems like such an
obvious step in tying to achieve a vintage tone. The one time I asked a builder to not pot a set I ordered the guy was asking me "are you sure you don't want to do that?", like it was crime. I love to listen to those old guitars played in live recordings, like the old Fleetwood Mac, and for me that occasional squeal adds to the excitement of the music played. You might be hearing from me about an order!
@@bigdaddystinkeye I spent hundreds on a vintage set from a winder who'll remain nameless and he did a similar thing, convinced me unpotted would be too hard to live with, now his pickups are in the trash!
Thanks Doug and Pat, I listened to Pat,s 1960 Les Paul burst through H. Phones. What a beautiful sound. Now I know why musicians love these instruments. Keep up the good work . Excellent.
You Guys are Great! God Bless You! WooF!
Hi guys! Glad to see you're back! About PAF humbucker replicas: They have to be wound on a machine (like a Leesona 102 winding machine) to get the tone right. I don't know if all the boutique PAF humbucker makers possess such winding machines...I once asked Dave Stephens (of SD Pickups) why can't the character of a PAF be reached when it's hand wound? And his answer was:
"...Hand winding is death to PAF tone. Hand winding is what Leo Fender used because random winds LIMIT the high treble peak frequencies. And that is why he did that, to diminish harshness in single coil pickups. Perfect automated winding as USED BY GIBSON NOW AND THEN, creates a peak treble frequency that humbuckers NEED, or they become too BLAND. The amount of ferrous steels in humbuckers needs the help of a perfectly aligned winding pattern to cut through what the ferrous components cut OFF. Hand winding is for single coils ONLY. Gibson NEVER hand wound anything in their entire history. I did hundreds of winding patterns with a CNC winding traverse I built to test this all out. Gibson didn't invent some "magic" winding pattern. The PAF winding pattern is BY THE BOOK that came with their winding machines. The equation is simply using MEASURED Outside Diameter of the wire used, versus the SPACE TO FILL on the bobbin. Each wind is calculated for the wire diameter and how many winds to FILL THE SPACE. It's that simple..."
I agree, I consider myself a student of Dave Stephens and he's right all Gibson pickups were machine wound. I looked up the patent for the Leesona 102 and was able to calculate the turns per layer and the distribution of the wire. My first PAFs were handwound and they did sound bland, I took Dave's advice and set up an automated traverse machine and my pickups improved exponentially. There is more going on than simply electrical values though, because they're not wax potted they're sensitive to vibrations and every part has a resonant frequency that needs to be taken into account, you can actually EQ the microphonics by using parts with different resonant frequencies thats why Pete Flynn uses Michigan maple spacers and not Canadian maple spacers because the resonant frequency is different and he's using it for EQ. Its a real rabbit hole
Ready for the Bukovac chat gents!
What a pleasant surprise at the end of my vacation. Sitting with a coffee getting set to enjoy 2 riveting hours of entertainment - Hope Pat makes it through the whole 2 hours of part one and two. Don't die on us Pat. Thanks Gents
So happy you guys are back. Great video.
😂😂😂 I’m sitting here listening to Pats story, and I’m imagining Pat back then as Pat now. Walking around and playing gigs and shit in the ‘70’s looking like he does now. It’s quite amusing!!lol
Man! A new Doug and Pat episode x2! You guys evidently have no idea how much your UA-cam fans love your shows. It seems like we have to wait months and years for a new episode. The boomer guitar community, an ever decreasing demographic, just wishes for one more episode before we are “Knocking on Heaven’s Door.” C’mon guys, old people get grumpy and impatient, ya know. Love your humor. Love your content. Love your show - when we can get one. 🤣🤪🤣
Much appreciated, we're working on being around more, and in every way. D&P
Great to see you folks back online. You just made my day.
Love these guys. So.... COOOL.
Great show, Pat's guitar is a beauty! Love it.
So nice to have you both back!!!!!!
so glad you guys are back!
Yes!! Finally!! Don't go away so long from now on.... Please 😊 The world needs and I would love to see Doug n Pat/ Uncle Larry; Episode/Episodes: Think Tank.. Get Together... PowWow.. THAT would be a 'perfect storm '!!
Much respect
We have sent communications to Uncle Larry for our upcoming Nashville trip and yeah, getting together with him would be great. Any of you Bukovac fans out there, start harassing Uncle Larry to meet up with us. We'll bring the beer. D&P
Love the both of you and all your shows! As always, Doug your playing is always great and a perfect vehicle to test out the sounds you can coax out of each guitar.
I listen using my hearing aids” what!” That have a great frequency response.
I’d love to be in the room to truly appreciate the tones coming out of the speaker. Thanks gents!✌️❤️
Doug and Pat are both incredibly handsome gentleman and I am so happy they are back.
You have to be supercool to pull off the pipe and velvet blazer combo 👍
Can’t wait for this upcoming bukovac episode!
Priceless content as usual
Hell Yes. Good to see you SIRS.
Made my day. Great to see you again. One of the best guitar channels by far! You guys, Buk and Trapp got your shit together. Need more content from you guys. Great show.
Those burst buckers, are great pickup.
I'll bet the person who wrote the long email about being the only person who winds the PAFs correctly is Dave Stephens from SD designs
Good call
It's gotta be, who else would say that and not produce a sample for Doug and Pat to try out 😂
What a wonderful way to start my Friday! Nice to see you handsome fellars!
Great to see you back gents
Love the show guys! I have been fortunate enough to have played 4 Bursts. One was phenomenal, two were very good, one was a dog. Which ironically had the best top (1960) NONE and I mean NONE of them sounded like they should have cost more than my house at the time! Also, although not as pretty, my 1952 Gold Top really holds its own. I am just like everyone else. I love Bursts and I have and have owned several reissues, I just dont see why the are astronomically priced. Some are great, not all. Even if I won the lottery, I think Id look for a 57 or 58 Goldtop. Not as many counterfeits. I am sure they are starting to be but too much of a risk buying a Burst. Rant over. Love Bursts and your show, Brian
So the first set, the low winds, are A2 magnets in both pick ups. The second set has A5 magnets in both pick ups.
Wow those two ol lespauls were magic..The 60 burst Jane sounded great..Oskar sounded great both different but similar…The replica pickups sounded good..But at the end of the days they are pickups…The guitar they are installed in is a big part..
Great to see you guys again! Love the old pics of you guys rockin' out in the 70's. Can you name some of the songs from your set lists from back then?
Love you guys! More please.
What!!! a all original early 1960 burst is part of this show and a 1958 Goldtop? Hell yeah i am watching it!🤘
Yes! so glad you did a new show. Great stuff and informative as always. Ahh, the mythical PAF rabbit hole.
I bought a new les paul tabacco sunburst/Norlin, in late 76 for 300.00 without case, just so you get a price factor. I got a used 68 Custom in about 78 for 300.00 with case, yellow interior.
This is a brilliant hour of info and fun . Keep up the entertainment !
Nice chat guys. Good to see the show up and running again. By the way, George Benson is great. He is the first shredder even as a young player.
I am so happy that there’s 2 new ones. Hope you are both well
The Aussie, does a mighty fine job with the PAF.desigen.
❤
Love your show. Made my day you put out a new episode
Great to see and hear you again Doug. Hope you and Molly are doing well out west -Mac
Thanks Mac, it's great to see photos of your family on FB. Having a good life is a good thing. Doug
Started to worry about you guys. Silent for months. Glad to see a couple new videos. Ive watched that P90 shootout video about 1000 times.
Great...the lads are back! Hey guys, nice to see ya.
IMO the popularity and rise of the PAF equipped Les Paul can all be linked back to Clapton and the release of the Beano Album in 1966. Up until that albums release no one had used a PAF Les Paul to such devastating effect, as Eric masterfully demonstrated what that guitar was capable of sonically. It's NO coincidence that shortly after the albums release many of our guitar hero's such as Bloomfield, Peter Green, Beck, Kossoff, and others took notice and acquired PAF equipped les Paul's for themselves.
We completely agree. D&P
I once heard a 63 335, through a tweed champ it was physically totally wheel of fire, hellfire.
The most explosive thing I have ever heard.
You guys are a snl skit for real lol LOVE IT
Love the classic pic of the boys from back in the day. Ever wonder what song they are bombing it too. Maybe Warrior by Wishbone Ash...or maybe Fool for the City? How about some Dickey and Duane, maybe One Way Out?
You're really close, we did One Way Out, lots of first record ZZ Top, Wishbone Ash. The disco era was going on them and we were cranking our bursts and Juniors through plexi Marshalls. Our friends thought we were nuts. D&P
Doug and Pat posts are almost as rare as that Vox.
I love your show. It would be great if you could get Paul Reed Smith on he show to talk about guitars…. I also want to recommend CMG guitars (Chris Mitchell guitars) I have one with Buzztone PAF 57 in and I think it’s a great rig…
Excellent!
The 5 and 59 both sound similar but there is a difference. There is great clarity in both. I think more high end on the 58. Don't forget old PAF vs new. Keep that in mind. New is always fresher. and those guitars are old and the pick ups in the 59/60 are very old.
Do you have to keep a defribulator on hand for Pat..?
Is he deep..? Is he awake..?
Hahaha ❤❤
I bought a marshall super lead in the late 70's and it was just too damn loud for the clubs. 100 watts of loud if you wanted to get the crunch. I rapidly learned my place and settled on a deluxe reverb as my club amp and with the help of pedals I played every damn thing pretty well and had a great sound. I had unique sound that nobody else had. I was not that great of a lead player but a damn good rhythm player because I was learning from people who were older than me and mentoring me. I could carry a band as a single guitartist but I grew up playing in two guitar bands with harmony guitar parts that we learned well. Yoh don't need even a half stack marshall to play. a 50 watt head and 2x12 cab is more than enough for a huge club.
I am convinced that the ‘59 LP became so famous because there were no aftermarket parts to be had. If one wanted a different sound, one would trade one’s whole guitar. Little by little the rock guys figured the later ‘50s guitars had more output (edge & sustain) than the earlier ones. This was IMHO due to the 42 gauge wire tolerance getting a little worse each year (thicker) and more A5 magnets being used. The famous guys had ‘59s therefore everybody wanted one too. That myth lives on to this day.
Pat is spot on with the appearance
I went opposite
Duncan SuperDustortipn
It fvkkn rocked at the tine
The clone is ok but that Vox is something special.
While I love these guys and their content, I have to say that all the love extended to George Gruhn simply eludes me. I went to Nashville in the spring of '84 with a wad of $1200 in my pocket, looking to find my dream guitar, and his shop was my first stop. I had to ask him three times before he deigned to acknowledge my existence, and even then, he was extremely rude and brusque toward me. I could see a guitar hanging on the wall with a price tag that didn't seem too far off to me, but he acted as though it was completely out of my reach. I can take a hint, so I left, drove up to Louisville and found what I wanted in a pawn shop there. I have to assume that Mr. Gruhn treats the stars a bit better than he treated me that day.
That sounds bad! Our only experiences with George is selling him guitars back in the day and Pat's visit with his wife to Nashville a couple of years ago. They went to Gruhn's store, just walked in and he met them and spent three hours showing them every floor, his reptile collection and valuable guitars in his shop. He didn't know Pat from Adam. Maybe he's gotten a bit mellower in 39 years. We're going back to Nashville in September to film so we're hoping for the best. D&P
Post the Bukovac episode.
you guys ever hear of Kent Armstrong? Dan Armstrong,s son and pickup Guru . Tremendous
Yes keiths, had a Bigsby, but he was also on the hoddamn ,ed,Sullivan show.Brian had the pre,production vox, and Keith's casino.
I have a vague recollection of a Worthington LP that happened to be in the shot during a past episode. I’m acquainted with Seelig and Worthington here in St. Louis. It’s one of six, right? I’d like to know more.
Definitive👍
why was Doug afraid of using the Varitone ?
that's
tiger stripe maple finish ?
very beautiful (/¡!*!😍🎸✨🤩⚡👩🎤✨🔸
What most people don't realize is that they were NOT designed to be the heavy boat anchors the crappy norlin,ones who pepole associated with.
what gauge strings do you use? Is your action high? Can you play some slide too?
I have heard that Gibson used aged mahogany from the 30s and 40s to build the Jr's and led Paul's.
“I’ll give you a sign!” Muahahahaha…Snort…Hahahahaha…
Doug & Pat. I have the question of our time for you. Why in the hell does Clapton avoid humbucker guitars (i.e. gibsons) like the plague????
We think it was part of his rejection of the Cream era "rockstar" thing when he wanted to be a bluesman. Pat heard Clapton in the early 80's at a sound check playing a SG for a song. He sounded amazing but switched back to the strat to make sure that didn't happen again. D&P
@@realtordougfraser5146 Yeah. I've heard that argument before as well. What get's me is that for most people his best work was done on sg's 335s, and LPs. Still drives me crazy after all these years.....
He always sounds better on a Gibbo to me, why do you think he put that mid boost in? but maybe Strats are better built? my fave LP style guitar is one of the New Squier Mustangs, their HB pus have got the sound
Hey guys stay crazy and support your local dispensary, and hydrate your blue's acceumen with a Heineken or two,but keep it at that.
Please don't tell me that you guy's screwed around with dimarixo, pickups in those.
But you are forgiven, we all DID stupid shit with them.
You guys are great and lots of fun!!!.
We did that in the day for paying customers (we both worked in music stores) who demanded it. It was heartbreaking even back then. D&P
these questions about tone will be asked by every generation that play guitar
Great vid guys. Forgive me if I missed it, but what pots were in the R7? I see you mentioned VIP, their 550k pots really open up the top end particularly on the neck pickup . Love that ‘60! 😍
The R7 has the stock pots from the factory, probably 500K. We have the VIP pots in the '94 Heritage H150 which we do lots of demos with. D&P
Do more videos!!!!
Let's give thanks to @rhettshull for giving Doug and Pat a reason to stay out of retirement!
There is a certain Honk on the attack of. pSF
Do you guys think the gold paint makes them beamier, and a little darker.
My ears can't hear a difference but if there is metallic particles in the magnetic field then it probably influences the shape of the field. I doubt anyone can actually hear any difference you could experiment on a junk guitar, like a PRS....😂 by just layering on metallic paint until you hear the tone change
Dipthong is what Aussies do at the beach 😂
Thanks for the visual Ben. Damn you. D&P
Nice show, guys. I like the R7 darkback; seems like a good platform for comparing PAF clones. How does that compare with the Heritage H-150 you have used before?
The R7 has a huge neck and the Heritage has a much smaller one, weight is about the same (9 lbs), and they both do a good job as a good demo platform. D&P
Hey Doug and Pat, is that you guy's in your prime playing bursts,
Tell us about your local gigs and or recording you guy's have done.
We played in dive bars in Portland mainly but traveled out into the small towns all over Oregon. We loved playing Les Paul/Marshall blues-rock and found our audience. We only did self made recordings with a four track Teac 2340. Primitive but it got us gigs. D&P
Why doesn’t Pat ever play on this show?
I have about 90 "PAF" clone shootouts on my channel. But I don't have any idea what a real set sounds like. People ask for advice and I tell them to ask ya'll. Sorry for the extra email influx. haha
50% tone comes from a good valve amp,,,,or more!
- why custom shop doesn't use resin on bodies and cure them with sound like in 50s Kalamazoo?
-why it took likely 6+ years for those guitars to sound good. still some of them sound like crap,even 59s. what was the time consuming change?
these are never asked questions.
That burst through a supro,or some kind of Valco,amp.or gender deluxe,
Is utter hellfire, and should be illegal.
Awful pushy, I have to put my PAF pusher down to push the button for part two :0)
It can't be heavey I have never held one of the these that seemed to be more than 6.8,or 7,lbs.
P.S. I had a Murphy ice,tea, looking one that was light and pregnant with tone.
It also sounded better than a 53, or earlier conversion gold top, that was neck reset with ,overrated I think PAFs.
Dear , this is Cindy from xvive , would you like try our product in your videos?
Wow
That 5 stars guitars guy ……. Wtf is his issue?
Can't stand Bigsby;s or Floyd Rose's
I had two 59. 345,s.thr varitone,sucked tone and made it heavy and uncomfortable.
I ended up NOT liking those guitars.
There is good research on the Varitone tone suckers, A/B comparisons where you can compare then in the circuit and out. The harness in the 355 was pulled out intact and replaced with a 335 style. Night and day difference for that guitar. D&P
@@realtordougfraser5146was the original harness in stereo and the pickups out of phase? If so, how much of a pain in the arse was that?