You two out did yourselves on this one. You took so many different things and wrapped them up together so well... Most people have theories that are only believable because they can't be disproven yet beyond all doubt and they usually don't sound too crazy. But when I listen to these videos, I always think "this sounds like something George would do". The fact that I always think that when I watch your videos is why this is easily my favorite youtube channel. You two kick ass.
Speaking of blood sacrifices and weirwoods. Why do you think Ned always cleaned Ice under the heart tree? Peaceful reflection next to a sacred tree or something more sinister?
In our Culture, Hinduism, Third Eye is revered and is considered a Divine phenomenon. Shiva Opens his Third Eye that sees the Truth and burns the God of Desire to Ashes. Third Eye is seen as Ultimate peak of Human Capacity.
So, I reread something interesting in ACOK that parallels something you mention in this video series. Before entering the House of the Undying, Dany is given Shade of the Evening. It has similar effects to the cocktails given to Bran and Arya, in that initially the stuff is unbearable, but once she consumes more, it seems to recognize things that remind her of 'home' and cater itself to said sensations. "The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her...on her tongue was a taste like honey, and anise and cream, like mother's milk and Drogo's seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the taste she had ever known, and none of them". Later on in the temple, while she doesn't specifically see a weirwood tree, she does come across a door, eeirly reminiscent of the two you mentioned in this series. "A room with wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling & twisting in strange, interwoven patterns. They were beautiful, yet somehow terrifying". Dany doesn't say the patterns are faces, but what else could be beautiful and terrifying? Also, within this room are the undying of Qarth, who claim to have been waiting 1,000 years. I have to wonder, was this also some sort of entrance to the underworld? My bigger question is, what are the implications for Bran, Arya, and Dany if they've all been given this same cocktail? The Damphair is forced to drink it too, which makes me think, if there wasn't some sort of sinister cost associated with consuming it, why didn't Euron drink it himself? And it may not truly be Shade of the Evening. Sorry this is so long, you all just inspire me to think bigger picture😊.
Right, Euron does have pale blue lips. However, my question is, if he had been drinking it himself for years, what is the purpose of forcing the Damphair to do it? Would it not be more prudent to drink it himself, as opposed to relying on a second party's word for visions of his future? The only reason I could come up with is that what he forces the Damphair to drink wasn't truly shade of the evening. Dany talks about seeing her heart corrupted in the house of the undying, so I have to wonder if the same has now happened with Arya, Bran, and the Damphair. Also, for what purpose would the great other want all their hearts corrupted?
Ashley, that was a great observation...I never noticed the black and white doors in the house of the undying...I'm pretty sure the Shade of the Evening is a drink not from the weirwood, but the ebony wood or a combination of the two, which is where it gets its color from
it could have an amplifying effect on telekinetic abilities. it seemed like euron could read the damphair's thoughts. have you read a song for Lya by GRRM?
If The Faceless Men can only change into the faces of skin changers,than how does Jaquen use Pates face at Old town? There is absolutely no mention of Pate having skin changing abilities,not even an off hand comment about strange dreams.
There are also many links to Welsh mythology. Especially The Story of Bran and Branwyn. Bran "The Blessed" was the first king of Wales, He was a Giant and his name translates to Blessed Crow, or Raven.
7:07 hold up, wait, this just hit me. Arya was live-viewing through the cat while she was conscious and walking around? So she's turning into a little Sixskins in Essos, watching her own training through a cat AND doing stuff in Westeros via Nymeria wolf dreams. Those Starks be wilding out, literally, all of them...except Sansa so far...c'mon Little Bird, spread those wings.
George may have given away an unintentional spoiler in a question and answer session in Guadalajara. He was asked what religion he follow if he was in Westeros. He talked a bit about the seven and then the Lord of Light, but after those 2 he talked about the faceless men. He didnt say the many face god, he just said Valar Morghulis. All men must die. he goes on to say that everyone dies no matter what religion, they all end up dead. So the god of death must be a really powerful gods that we may want to look out for.
Great video as always. I don't know if there's anyway to message you guys on here so I'll just post my questions here. I like many fans read a lot of essays and theories regarding ASOIAF and look very deeply into it. I've always wondered if Rhaegar met the Ghost of high heart at Summerhall when he used to go there, and I wonder if they spoke about the prince that was promised, and maybe she has a vision and she foresee's Lyanna. And she tells him that their son will be the prince that was promised and his will be the song of ice and fire. Or maybe she doesn't tell him about Lyanna but that his son will be The promised prince. I believe in exchange for the visions she has him write and sing a song for her, "Jenny's song" which also turns out to be the actual song of ice and fire. When people talk about him singing they speak of a sad song which makes people cry, he sings of tears, twilights and the death of kings. And there was said to be a sense of doom to Rhaegar. Would it be crazy if the ghost had told him everything that was to happen, the downfall of house Targaryen, that he would die and thousands with him, the long night would be coming and that in order to save the world he must fulfil the prophecy? I've also wondered a lot about Darkstar, Doran Martell calls him the most dangerous man in Dorne. personally I believe Doran calls him dangerous due to his knowledge of a certain matter. Doran doesn't seem the type to perceive dangerous as something physical. I've read a theory about Darkstar potentially being a squire to one of the kingsguard at the Tower of joy and he witnessed what happened. Wouldn't that make him very dangerous to Doran and Dorne's ambitions, if R+L = J or A or D then it could change everything for Dorne depending on who you believe was born at the ToJ ( I know you guys believe it was Aegon). Sorry about the essay but I thought it would be good to get the thoughts of you guys as you look so deeply into things and It may triggers ideas for future videos which would be awesome !
Arya wonders how many levels down the HoB&W basement goes... EVERYBODY wonders how many levels down the crypts in Winterfell go. Meanwhile the descendants of Gendel & Gorne are supposed to still live in the underground tunnels that run from North of the Wall to some undetermined endpoint(s) below the Wall in the North, and their children are "always hungry". While weirwoods may thrive on blood, you don't need to hypothesize a giant underground weirwood if you've got an underground population of "children" to feed all the carrion you can attract in the tunnels under Braavos. So, Jaqen being happy about Arya's declaration of "A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, & I'm going home!" actually makes sense. He could benefit by having a trained "double agent" who can get into Winterfell and potentially disarm the warding spells there, for the benefit of the Many Faced God in the coming of the next Long Night. (I'm assuming that the Many Faced God is a fan of the efforts of the Night King to allegedly destroy mankind). Much as we love watching Arya go after Walder Frey & other filthy scum, once she gets home she could pose a real danger to the living, as she really IS a Stark, not just "no one". If the Starks in some way protect the realm from complete takeover/annihilation by the dead, then a Stark who serves the Many Faced God could be on the wrong side of this next war. Arya has a wildness in her, like her uncle Brandon & aunt Lyanna, but the glory of the Starks historically has been in their sense of duty and responsibility and good administration, not their excesses of adventure and wildness. Keep up the good work, I love these thought provoking videos by OotGH!!!
Thanks for another wonderfully detailed analysis -- the quality of the research and presentation is a pleasure to follow. Given the nature of the topic, the Faceless Men, I wonder if this series will cross paths with Missandei at all. Ever since the first time she was introduced in the books I have always thought there was more to her -- and the idea of her being a member of the faceless men, made the most sense to me, but to what end. Looking forward to more!
"In many cultures the third eye is considered a portal through which demonic possession is possible".... no. Most cultures who believe in a third eye consider it the eye of the soul and the point through which we access insight and wisdom. It's fundamental religion that calls it demonic.
you guys are true fans I started reading the books after season 3 I got hooked after that I didn't Catch on the first read after watching some of your videos I am reading them again I'm on my second read I'm clash right now good job
You guys are the only ones that cover Faceless Men lore, thank you for that! Jaqen has been my fav since I saw him in that cage back in S2 Question: Can Arya continue to be (or act as) a "faceless man assassin" now that she's re-claimed her Stark Name? *Always* a pleasure, Thanx!
I cannot see her storyline going like that in the books...the faceless men don't chase people through the streets like that ridiculous scene where a borderline mortally wounded Arya was chased through the streets by the waif, and the Kindly Man would be very unlikely to just let her go and be like "yea its totally cool that you learned the ways of the most secretive and deadly assassin cult in the world and now you want to go home...I understand"...in the books I see it having a bloodier end, and when she leaves she would be terrified that anyone around her might be one of them and won't be taking casual strolls through the city in broad daylight
Black part of the door of the building of the faceless men is ironwood, same as the doors of cripts of Winterfell - and Ironwood burns blue, maybe that is the same wood that warlocks of Carth use for shade of the evening...
You guys are incredible. :) I was so convinced that R+L=J but your theory works so damn well (especially the kingsguard part) that now I lean towards your version of the story. But perhaps the best thing about your videos is the fact that they make so much sense in the grand scheme of things; that is the war against the children, the others, the winter etc. Truth be told, the amount of work you did is unbelievable. Alt Shift X should just give you all his patreon money and go hide in a corner. u_u Keep it up!
WhiteEagle Right? I'm so deeply impressed how they connect so many clues out of over 5000 pages (without Awoiaf und Tales of Dunk and Egg) and are able to create a big picture over it that connects so perfectly well. It's truly amazing
I have been searching for an answer to what they do with the dead bodies in The House of Black and White for the past few days because it has really been bugging me. Thank you for an answer, even if it might not be the one GRRM uses!
it bothered me for the longest time, until we made the connection between the cave where bran is and the House of Black and White...at which point we noticed that there was no Weirwood in Braavos but they claim all gods are represented there...then the HoBaW=worlds largest blood sacrifice seemed to make too much sense to ignore
Does anyone ever comment on their respective Weirwood trees (on their castles, grounds, lands etc) having different expressions on them sometimes? I can't remember, but in my head, the tree at Winterfell always has a long, solemn face. Does this then mean that only *one* greenseer (most likely BR, I guess?) has looked in it whilst the current Stark family have been in residence/alive? Is it the same at other Weirwood locations? If there are so many different COTF/other greenseers, you'd think they'd be looking into Winterfell quite a lot, but the face (to my knowledge) has always been the same. Maybe they *make* themselves take on that solemn appearance so as not to raise suspicion, and Bran's just a newbie.
Not to mention Qhohor is basically a logging camp with a big market. In other words it's in a deep dark woods. Gives me a thought. After World of IaF came out it was said repeatedly that the lack of a Qarth chapter spoke to the great importance "The Greatest City There Ever Was Or Will Be" must have to the rest of the story. However, you've painted quite a different picture with the information given in tWoIaF. One that shows a connection of like minded fanatics, many of whom may actually be different races of "children" spread throughout every city mentioned in tWoIaF. Through your interpretation each of these groups are much different than what we are led to believe, and seeing as their true selves are identical in nature, if not species, suddenly their inclusion in tWoIaF speaks to a puzzle, hidden, but meant to be discovered. Assume I'm right that you've solved this hidden puzzle and expand that line of thinking to every culture mentioned in tWoIaF, no matter how distant or seemly inconsequential, assume for a moment that with more information they too would be revealed in their basest nature to fall clearly on one side or the other of this great conflict and suddenly everything, and I mean everything ever written about this world suddenly clicks into place. The mysteries this will solve, questions it will answer, concepts it will redesign... I shiver at the thought. This has only come to me now, as I write this, but I already know it to be true. I believe a careful reread of tWoIaF, which I will begin today, could yield a proper work that could take months if not years to be researched and submitted for peer review. I think you've broken the code, unearthed the Rosetta stone of asoiaf, revealed the key that explains the entire song of Ice and Fire. Do you even realize what you've done? This is incredible. Well done. You need to examine this more, because eventually someone else will and you deserve the credit. Bravo!
The Order of the Green Hand Definitely feel the same way and the many references to his excellent swordsmanship in the books as well as in the show is difficult to ignore. I feel like the show diverted story his story a lil bit
im reading AFFC and ADWD at the same time(the boiled leather reading order) im at Arya I AFFC when arya is being being taken ashor to the house of black and white i noticed something next came a huge brick structure festooned with lichen.Arya might have taken it for a storehouse had yorko not said"that is the holy refuge where we honor the SMALL GODS the world has forgotten.you will hear it called the WARREN too" its only a short row after this that shes at the house of black and white and it has a cannal running through it.i cant find a detailed enough map but i think it may be pretty close to the house of black and white maybe even connected to it underground.small gods the world has forgotten. the Warren sounds like the children of the forrest to me. in the same chapter arya reflect on how the Titan of Bravos could step over the walls of winterfell.thats the second time the titan of bravos has been mentioned stepping into winter fell with lttlefinger being the first stepping over both walls of Sansas snowcastle his house sigil the titans head even Roberts doll(giant/titan) that smashes the gates of the snowcastle ends up just a head.
I think the children finally figured out how to use the difference in life spans to remove all of the knowledge mankind had used against them previously as well as anything that enabled mankind to endure the extreme weather long enough to see the end of the long night .
So what I'm understanding of all of this is that the valyrians were basically everything the children of the forest hated? Religious pluralism and tolerance vs religious monotheism and fanaticism, fire-loving and riding towards the skies vs cave-dwelling and night-stalking, tall and fair vs short and brown-ish... both controlled creatures to do their biddings tho (dragons or wolves or whatever)... I mean, it seems to me that what this whole thing is driving at the fact that the children are the mortal enemies of humanity and have always been and have created a number of things to destroy humanity. Be it the Others or, through deception, spurned on anti-humanist cults and religions to make men kill each other. And humanity is failing to understand all this and even plays into the hands of the long con the children set out. Bummer.
This is a great breakdown on the Faceless Men; their involvement in the endgame is going to be a hell of a story. The World of Ice and Fire is an awesome book, but I didn't think there might be actual clues hidden there. I took it with a grain of salt because it seemed that the 2 non-GRRM authors were writing fan fiction and conjecture about far flung places that would not show up in the series, along with some oversight and contributions from George. I know he wrote parts, but I just saw it as a companion piece with great artwork. On another note, I was checking my notifications last night and didn't see anything recent from your channel. Looked through my subs and somehow I was un-subbed. I've heard people talking about this happening for a while now, but I didn't seem to be affected. I have notifications turned on for you guys and only a handful of other channels. Now I've got you bookmarked in case it happens again. Good to see your subs are otherwise taking off; it's much deserved.
The idea that only skinchangers/ wars have faces that can be worn by faceless men makes truly no sense. That would mean that they wouldn't be able to impersonate the vast majority of people. I think that's a leap of logic based upon a simple turn of phrase. If Arya said "hundreds of faces looked down on her" it's still just a person saying "a lot of faces".
+The Order of the Green Hand Great Video as usual. I was wondering if you all have came across a very obscure theory that involves religion somewhat. I've only seen it mentioned a couple of times in relation to GoT, but this series of videos made me think back to a video that kind of lays out the reason that GRRM might be working towards something similar. The theory is called the "Fibonacci" code/number or text. The reason I thought It might make sense is because the people that tied this theory to GoT mentioned a video I seen called "What is God? According to 13 year old genius physicist - Max Loughan"(you can find this with a simple search). With his thoughts on the actual code/theory I can see why it might make some sense in the Thrones universe or at least something GRRM might work towards since there is already so much Religious theories and what they all mean. You all seem to be the only channel that would be able to give it some deep thought as this series of videos as well as your other work shows. Please Keep up the great work...We love your channel !
I doubt arya literally counted every single face. She saw a large number of faces and said she saw a large number of faces. "Arya saw four million five hundred and thirty one thousand, seven hundred and eighty three faces" Other than that I think this is a pretty solid theory
So there is this thing that strikes me again and again while watching your videos... When you mention the three-eyed crow here and say that it "tends to visit those who are on the verge of death and uses their natural will to live to convince them to make a deal with the devil", I clearly and immediately imagine a picture of the slashed young Petyr Baelish right after his duel with Brandon Stark. Further you speak of "a portal through which demonic possession is possible". Afair George R.R. Martin said somewhere something like that he only knows who a character truly is once that character has a name - so names actually have a deeper meaning. So why is Littlefinger named Bael-ish as in demon-ish in the first place? Coincidence? Apart from the topic of the video but also related to the name thing: Why is he called Petyr? What does Petyr mean? Petyr is clearly an adaptation of Peter which means stone. Does "stone" ring any bell? That's what they call bastards in the Vale of Arryn. What if he is a Stone instead of a Baelish? But who's child would he be? He's small and slim with grey-green eyes that afaik tend to sometimes have either more green or more grey, depending on whatever (most likely his mood). He's clearly no warrior, tho he seems to be very agile and somehow skilled (I've just started to read the books, but how he plays around with the catspaw dagger when we're introduced to him clearly stroke me). He's very smart and cunning, strives on chaos and has countless spies in his service.
Are the faceless men things to have Arya kill bloodraven?Bran? They seem pretty concerned about her not being a Stark anymore, but seen to reward her desire to kill. The caverns could be connected to bloodravens cave, and maybe the weirwoods keeping him dying is an "offense to the baby faced God of death". Love the videos, it's difficult to decide what to watch next, they're all so good.
Awesome video! Keep up the great work! I really enjoy listening to your channel as you are so thorough and have some non mainstream views which is fascinating! Thank you for putting so much time and effort into your work!!!
Hi Order of the Green Hand, I'm enjoying your video series on the Faceless men very much. To add another parallel between BR and Bran's cave and the HoBaW, they are both beneath 'hollow hills'. [HoBaW is built on a knoll or hill with many underground levels] And Beric as BR's parallel is also situated within a hollow hill. In Celtic Mythology the underworld is accessed via the hollow hills and I think George has hidden loads of them throughout the series, the HoBaW being a prime example. There are also a load hidden in Westeros and that is the subject of my essay which can be read here asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/143917-the-caves-are-timeless-hollow-hills-magic-castles-and-greenseers/ if you so desire of course.The comments section touches on a lot of what you've spoken about [though not all by a long stretch] and I thought you may appreciate the read. If not, no worries it's good to see others investigating the underworld and all that entails. Keep up the good work. :)
The Order of the Green Hand lol it's ok, I guess most people that talk about Morrigan are men (she is a possible love interest in the game I was telling you about). Maybe not that many "gamer-girls" out here either? Had Alistair or better yet Zervan ❤ (the male love interests) had some folk-lore trickery tied to their names and how it relates to ASOIAF it would have been obvious for all the world to see the woman behind the mask of "Guess Who" 😉
Near the end where you talk about the way people are killed w/o spilling blood also reminds me of something Melisandra said about spoiling the meat when you kill. And they never see the knife she says. I wonder if that may be the reason it is important that the faceless men convince those who want it that it is a relief to take the poison. Don't spoil the meat!
You guys have really got me thinking about these caverns now...it seems impossible--but how far do you think they go? Do you think they're isolated, city-contained networks or something that could be an entire subterranean layer to Planetos? I just assumed that the various groups communicated via the weirwoods (which seems to be where you're going with this I think...that the Children of the Forest in Westeros are plotting something--or at least coordinating--with other races of Children/aligned groups in Essos as well)...but do you think it could be more elaborate than that? The term "Underworld" implies a whole other "world" beneath the whole planet's surface...
Braavo (; Love that you discredited the 'Arya kill Sansa' theory. If anything, it'd be the other way around. Sansa knows that she's more Tully, more Catelyn (who conveniently is a traitor to the North) and has already seen that the North will ignore rules of succession in their choosing of Jon 'the Bastard' Snow as their King. Also giving Littlefinger the manipulator to perhaps convince Sansa to betray the Stark fam (yet again) in thinking she's doing what's best for the North and falling for Petyr's tricks AGAIN. Thus continuing that cycle of mother-daughter parallels. (Although I will say, they may have as that was Robb's last order.) So, without a doubt she sees Arya come home, as well as Bran - both contenders to her potential power - and not only is she well, but well-trained and presumably quite hard to kill. Oh, and she's become some amazing mentalist and is like "Dont you be lyin biiiish" Sansa looks down from the balcony like "God DAMNIT everyone's a goddamn super hero wtf" Not only that, but Sansa was A. In KL for forever with Cersei B. Married to Tyrion C. Friend of Baelish and D. (In the show at least) Also married to a Bolton. Not a great track record. And the North remembers. What do you think?
The House of Black and White has many levels underground and its Weirwood tree, just like Winterfell which has it own Weirwood tree grove with it own black pool and the burial crypt of the rulers of Winterfell.
I wonder if the Faceless Men lured Arya there to enhance her greenseeing abilities, because they eventually want to take her face and use her body as a blood sacrifice.
+The Order of the Green Hand Arya is my favorite character book wise so I am deeply interested where her plot is going. I do not trust the Faceless Men. why would they recruit a mentally unstable young girl to be an assassin? it didn't sit well.
Death religion: children and their trees, faceless men and the many faced God, Andals the 7 and stranger are all the same so why did the Andals destroy the trees.
Great video! I love your theories! But I think it isn't universal that opening the third eye is believed to be dark or satanic. As a matter of fact I'm interested in where you got that idea? This link from Wikipedia discusses many religions' beliefs about the 3rd eye and they all have to do with spiritual enlightenment, not evil. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_eye
Great video! You guys did it again! :D love the new concepts to think of like the skinchangers for the faces, the tunnels and the underground, the connections between the gods and different cities! Great work! Thank you so much, it's more than obvious that you guys put a lot of work into this. Thank you!
The Order of the Green Hand hell yay and she would have two great kids a girl whos the second coming of nymeria a strong girl with great beauty and a skilled handsome son and she would have Been WAYYYYY smarter and more sensical than cat
Good video. Though I think there's a perfectly good explanation for why there is only a 1000 or so faces. They don't collect faces from every victim. It would be incredibly hard to retrieve a body let alone cut off someone's face while remaining incognito. In fact nearly every faceless men kill in the books doesn't involve taking that person's face.
Umm, are you sure about that fact? Remember all those dead bodies that Arya and the waif would go and pick up each day from the different alcoves that are located around the pool of poison at the House of Black and White? There were always bodies. Everyday several bodies to be "given to the faceless men". That's why the number of 1000 faces seems to be so off.
oops! posted too soon. The Faceless Men do not only take the faces of those they assassinate , they also take the faces of those who seek "the gift" that can been found inside the House of Black and White. Basically, the folks who come there to die either due to injury - like the bravossi swordsman that was hurt during a fight or the elderly lady who did nit want ti be a burden to her family anymore.
Julie Calcote yeah that's why I said I think there's a reasonable explanation as to why there isn't more faces. It would be really hard to take someone's face during a high profile assassination.
I know you both must be very busy. I'm so looking forward to seeing your next video. I hope you'll give us a couples shot when subs hit 20k. May I say that Lady Green Hand will make a stunning bride! Beauty and brains, You'll be a blessed groom, to be sure!
she most certainly will...I am a lucky man...there is no disputing that...I believe Lady Green Hand was just making another Order of the Green Hand pic of us that she plans on doing something with while I was finishing up our script for our first Littlefinger video, which should be online tomorrow morning
Green Hand, Littlefinger ! That's tremendously good news. I'll even turn on the notification bell for that! As always, best regards! no reply necessary
based on the number of faces they have...1000 is about 1/1000 as many as they should have which happens to be the odds that a person is born with the ability to skinchange, and since face-changing and skinchanging seems to require the same magical gifts, it seems fairly logical that they only keep the faces of those born with the magical ability to skinchange...it's not a lot to go on, but it was the only thing I could think of to explain how they could have so few faces when they bring in about 1000 potential new faces per year and have been there for anywhere between 700-1300 years...they should have 1,000,000 faces by now
I'm a real numbers person, and the fact that they only had 1000 faces immediately got my attention because when Arya is still just the cleaning lady at the House of Black and White, she finds 2-5 bodies each morning...then when we were doing the Bloodraven videos I noticed that ratio Bloodraven tells Bran and it seemed too perfect a fit to ignore, especially when considering the two places seem to be identical in all but construction
The House of Black and White eats the dead bodies. Arya: What's this shit? KM: It's pork child, just pork. But Arya knew what it was because she'd had man flesh in her wolf dreams. A weirwood may be a magical creature, but it still need sunlight for photosynthesis. They won't grow in the Eyrie for want of good soil.
one grows in a cave below Casterly Rock...there's no sun in a cave...there is also a weirwood tree gate under the Nightfort that Bran and Co go through to get North of the Wall
The ego separates the mind from the soul. To rid the ego, is to merge ones mind to the universal soul/ pure consciousness/ force/ creator. The faceless men are attempting levels of this with Death.
Thank you...unfortunately the collab never ended up happening...it was a good experience but getting Lady Green Hand and I to agree on something is difficult to begin with, and adding Tony to the equation turned it into a very interesting debate, but with him being a firm R+L=J theorist and us being an N+A=J channel, there were some major topics that we couldn't agree on and if we don't agree it is hard to make a good video so we decided to part as friends
Nice! But I don't really get why the faces would have to be from other skinchangers to work, and I really doubt Pate was one. Maybe the faces in the hall are just the ones that haven't been used yet - it seems that they can wear several faces at once (maybe even hundreds?). How I interpreted it from the books: A face is permanently sewed on, and it melts in with your own face so you can choose to skinchange it. This lines up nicely with the "no-one" philosophy, because your own face would eventually not be any different from the other layers you skinchange into. This doesn't match up with the show, bit could still work for the books.
Thank you...it seems to me that there had to have been a reason he targeted Pate...of all the people at the Citadel, he decided Pate was his way in...we're going to do a Jaqen video very soon so I'll save the rest of my thoughts on the topic for that
Hmm! Interesting, looking forward to it! I just figured pate was chosen because of his character (a bit stupid and greedy), and because he could easily provide a universal key as he worked with the senile grandmaester. I don't know if he was already close with Marwyn at that point (which would make him an obvious choice), or if maybe marwyn knows that he is a fake... 🤔
I guess Preston was kinda right to theorize that Rorge and Biter might have had been Faceless Men, but I think, unfortunately for them their Face's identity is so vile that it managed to over power them, possessing their bodies entirely. freakin creepy... and there I was, hoping Arya will wear Ramsey or Roose's face in the future (as a middle finger to the Boltons tradition of wearing Stark skin).
If your theory is correct, you got to hand it to the Faceless Men... they cracked the code to get others to worship their gawd while giving them the delusion that they worshipped different gawds. And no one suspects a thing. I'm honestly impressed.
So I'm trying to figure out who the unnamed faceless men are. Any ideas? I think George is throwing the checkovs gun or whatever having these characters in there. You guys may have mentioned it before so sorry if you have, but really love your opinion, I was wondering what you guys thought
This was awesome! I love the linkages of these religions going back to a single source. It sounds like the evil one god has been around longer than the lord of light. So, wouldn't the white walkers be associated with the evil god? Do the wights have any blood or has that been drained and offered to the evil god as blood sacrifice? Both the white walkers and the evil god seem bent on humanities destruction. Rather than use faces like the faceless men, the night king uses the whole body, at least, what's left of it. Wight blood would seem to be unnecessary given the night king's animation of the dead is based on some king of magic. It's also interesting to note that the walk walkers attack humanity from the north, and the other elements attach or originate from east and south. The only direction not covered is the west, where you have folks like Euron who appear to be in league with an evil god as well. It is not inconceivable that the tunnels run under the seas so that humanity is surrounded, regardless of where it is. Now, if you require blood sacrific, you need a steady supply of bodies whether human or other animal. So does humanity become "livestock" and managed by the evil god? Wouldn't they want to stop the wars so that they can continue their parasitic existence? Okay, I'm rambling here. Lots to think about....
another video whilst thou provide? you're blowing my mind with this one. is essosi history key to understanding the long night? perhaps bran (back to the future bran) is the last hero that hasn't happened yet. the five forts is (are)the actual wall that bran the builder built. suppose the night king can do some time travel himself, flip the script, now he can game take bran back to the long night in essos leave him there while the long night begins in westeros? the dark water may be a connecting point to all planetos. the water under the wall, water in blood ravens cave, house of black and white. if bran is stuck in time somehow do the dark waters offer bran a solution? just saying. good video by the way:)
we think all history is the key to trying to figure out the first long night, and that a lot of the legendary figures from those histories are going to have counterparts in this new long night
I feel a bit of context is being missed, by emphasizing the spiritual risk of enlightenment. You are correct, but this doesn't mean one should always avoid the pursuit of enlightenment. Those able to consciously open the thirdeye would be tempted by demons, but could not be harmed so long as they kept faith. Every mystic of every faith has always faced these demonic temptations as a test or trap, often in a continuous way. Jesus is also known to have been tempted in almost the exact same way as the Buddha described, which was the same as many mystics from Santana Dharma, Vodun, and druidism before him. Islam also warns of the increased temptation which comes with enlightenment. Each spiritual abode also exists in the body, as chakras - which the third eye is part of. To master the third eye, all other chakras must first be navigated. This is often described as a maze, because each of these spiritual "rooms" has specific spiritual traps for those not wise enough. The water chakra might ensnare with lust, the riches of the crystal caverns might bind you to the material realm with greed. Each of these rooms is also associated with a color, which Arthurian legend, Poe, Lovecraft, and GRRM all make conscious use of.
I wonder if house of the undying sacrifice anything to their blue weirwood or if the summer islander sacrifice to their yellow weirwood. would eb nice if we had any info on that
12:55 Aight, quick pointer: It's not *the* Shub-niggurath, it's just Shub-niggurath. Furthermore, it should be pronounced Shub-(Yea I'm not typing out the n word)-oth, not Shub-nigroth.
You two out did yourselves on this one. You took so many different things and wrapped them up together so well... Most people have theories that are only believable because they can't be disproven yet beyond all doubt and they usually don't sound too crazy. But when I listen to these videos, I always think "this sounds like something George would do". The fact that I always think that when I watch your videos is why this is easily my favorite youtube channel. You two kick ass.
Thanks John...you're the best
Johnathan Kinne
*yourselves 😀
You got me! Fixing it.
Johnathan Kinne
I only noticed because I enjoy reading your comments😋
Cammy O likewise
Speaking of blood sacrifices and weirwoods. Why do you think Ned always cleaned Ice under the heart tree? Peaceful reflection next to a sacred tree or something more sinister?
We think we solved that mystery recently...we're not sure where we are going to work it in...it might be in Bran the Builder part 2
"So... Let's do this" This phrase allways gives me goosebumps!!!
Great vid
Hahaha thank you! We just started doing it one day and now with the music it really gets us pumped up! Haha
In our Culture, Hinduism, Third Eye is revered and is considered a Divine phenomenon. Shiva Opens his Third Eye that sees the Truth and burns the God of Desire to Ashes. Third Eye is seen as Ultimate peak of Human Capacity.
So, I reread something interesting in ACOK that parallels something you mention in this video series. Before entering the House of the Undying, Dany is given Shade of the Evening. It has similar effects to the cocktails given to Bran and Arya, in that initially the stuff is unbearable, but once she consumes more, it seems to recognize things that remind her of 'home' and cater itself to said sensations.
"The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her...on her tongue was a taste like honey, and anise and cream, like mother's milk and Drogo's seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the taste she had ever known, and none of them".
Later on in the temple, while she doesn't specifically see a weirwood tree, she does come across a door, eeirly reminiscent of the two you mentioned in this series.
"A room with wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling & twisting in strange, interwoven patterns. They were beautiful, yet somehow terrifying".
Dany doesn't say the patterns are faces, but what else could be beautiful and terrifying? Also, within this room are the undying of Qarth, who claim to have been waiting 1,000 years. I have to wonder, was this also some sort of entrance to the underworld? My bigger question is, what are the implications for Bran, Arya, and Dany if they've all been given this same cocktail? The Damphair is forced to drink it too, which makes me think, if there wasn't some sort of sinister cost associated with consuming it, why didn't Euron drink it himself? And it may not truly be Shade of the Evening. Sorry this is so long, you all just inspire me to think bigger picture😊.
Ashley of Naath Great post. but I think Euron has been drinking it, I'm sure it's quoted somewhere that his lips were turning blue
Right, Euron does have pale blue lips. However, my question is, if he had been drinking it himself for years, what is the purpose of forcing the Damphair to do it? Would it not be more prudent to drink it himself, as opposed to relying on a second party's word for visions of his future? The only reason I could come up with is that what he forces the Damphair to drink wasn't truly shade of the evening. Dany talks about seeing her heart corrupted in the house of the undying, so I have to wonder if the same has now happened with Arya, Bran, and the Damphair. Also, for what purpose would the great other want all their hearts corrupted?
Ashley, that was a great observation...I never noticed the black and white doors in the house of the undying...I'm pretty sure the Shade of the Evening is a drink not from the weirwood, but the ebony wood or a combination of the two, which is where it gets its color from
I hadn't noticed the doors originally myself. Like you told me before, you have to read the books a half dozen times to pick up on these details.
it could have an amplifying effect on telekinetic abilities. it seemed like euron could read the damphair's thoughts. have you read a song for Lya by GRRM?
If The Faceless Men can only change into the faces of skin changers,than how does Jaquen use Pates face at Old town? There is absolutely no mention of Pate having skin changing abilities,not even an off hand comment about strange dreams.
Utterly compelling. I dont buy all of your theories but your vids and quality of information are so addictive. thanks for posting and educating.
Thank you so much
There are also many links to Welsh mythology. Especially The Story of Bran and Branwyn. Bran "The Blessed" was the first king of Wales, He was a Giant and his name translates to Blessed Crow, or Raven.
7:07 hold up, wait, this just hit me. Arya was live-viewing through the cat while she was conscious and walking around? So she's turning into a little Sixskins in Essos, watching her own training through a cat AND doing stuff in Westeros via Nymeria wolf dreams. Those Starks be wilding out, literally, all of them...except Sansa so far...c'mon Little Bird, spread those wings.
Binge-watching your videos is now on my bucket list. You're the best ever!!! 👍👍👍
Thank you Princess!
You're welcome 😊
is the small girl at the house of undying a glamoured child of the forrest?
George may have given away an unintentional spoiler in a question and answer session in Guadalajara. He was asked what religion he follow if he was in Westeros. He talked a bit about the seven and then the Lord of Light, but after those 2 he talked about the faceless men. He didnt say the many face god, he just said Valar Morghulis. All men must die. he goes on to say that everyone dies no matter what religion, they all end up dead. So the god of death must be a really powerful gods that we may want to look out for.
You guys never cease to amaze me. What an awesome concept regarding the skin changer faces, it makes so much sense. You both are brilliant!
+Jim Young thank you Ser Jim!
"So..Let's do this.."...(badass intro)...
Gets me pumped every time!!
+Gaming With A White Guy hahaha thank you!! We kinda just did it one day and decided we should do it every time! 😊
I'm glad to see your subscriptions are growing and growing. I remember when it was just a few hundred lol. Keep it up guys.
thank you so much...it seems like yesterday that we only had a few hundred...sometimes it still feels surreal
Great video as always. I don't know if there's anyway to message you guys on here so I'll just post my questions here. I like many fans read a lot of essays and theories regarding ASOIAF and look very deeply into it. I've always wondered if Rhaegar met the Ghost of high heart at Summerhall when he used to go there, and I wonder if they spoke about the prince that was promised, and maybe she has a vision and she foresee's Lyanna. And she tells him that their son will be the prince that was promised and his will be the song of ice and fire. Or maybe she doesn't tell him about Lyanna but that his son will be The promised prince. I believe in exchange for the visions she has him write and sing a song for her, "Jenny's song" which also turns out to be the actual song of ice and fire. When people talk about him singing they speak of a sad song which makes people cry, he sings of tears, twilights and the death of kings. And there was said to be a sense of doom to Rhaegar. Would it be crazy if the ghost had told him everything that was to happen, the downfall of house Targaryen, that he would die and thousands with him, the long night would be coming and that in order to save the world he must fulfil the prophecy?
I've also wondered a lot about Darkstar, Doran Martell calls him the most dangerous man in Dorne. personally I believe Doran calls him dangerous due to his knowledge of a certain matter. Doran doesn't seem the type to perceive dangerous as something physical. I've read a theory about Darkstar potentially being a squire to one of the kingsguard at the Tower of joy and he witnessed what happened. Wouldn't that make him very dangerous to Doran and Dorne's ambitions, if R+L = J or A or D then it could change everything for Dorne depending on who you believe was born at the ToJ ( I know you guys believe it was Aegon). Sorry about the essay but I thought it would be good to get the thoughts of you guys as you look so deeply into things and It may triggers ideas for future videos which would be awesome !
Arya wonders how many levels down the HoB&W basement goes... EVERYBODY wonders how many levels down the crypts in Winterfell go. Meanwhile the descendants of Gendel & Gorne are supposed to still live in the underground tunnels that run from North of the Wall to some undetermined endpoint(s) below the Wall in the North, and their children are "always hungry". While weirwoods may thrive on blood, you don't need to hypothesize a giant underground weirwood if you've got an underground population of "children" to feed all the carrion you can attract in the tunnels under Braavos.
So, Jaqen being happy about Arya's declaration of "A Girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, & I'm going home!" actually makes sense. He could benefit by having a trained "double agent" who can get into Winterfell and potentially disarm the warding spells there, for the benefit of the Many Faced God in the coming of the next Long Night. (I'm assuming that the Many Faced God is a fan of the efforts of the Night King to allegedly destroy mankind).
Much as we love watching Arya go after Walder Frey & other filthy scum, once she gets home she could pose a real danger to the living, as she really IS a Stark, not just "no one". If the Starks in some way protect the realm from complete takeover/annihilation by the dead, then a Stark who serves the Many Faced God could be on the wrong side of this next war. Arya has a wildness in her, like her uncle Brandon & aunt Lyanna, but the glory of the Starks historically has been in their sense of duty and responsibility and good administration, not their excesses of adventure and wildness.
Keep up the good work, I love these thought provoking videos by OotGH!!!
Another great vid. The amount of research and background you provide are just excellent.
Thank you so much...it is always nice to hear that the work we put into our videos is appreciated
Thanks for another wonderfully detailed analysis -- the quality of the research and presentation is a pleasure to follow.
Given the nature of the topic, the Faceless Men, I wonder if this series will cross paths with Missandei at all. Ever since the first time she was introduced in the books I have always thought there was more to her -- and the idea of her being a member of the faceless men, made the most sense to me, but to what end.
Looking forward to more!
thank you so much...Missandei will get a mention soon enough
Fantastic video guys!! I really hope this all gets uncovered in the books!
Thank you Steve...so do we ;)
"In many cultures the third eye is considered a portal through which demonic possession is possible".... no. Most cultures who believe in a third eye consider it the eye of the soul and the point through which we access insight and wisdom. It's fundamental religion that calls it demonic.
you guys are true fans I started reading the books after season 3 I got hooked after that I didn't Catch on the first read after watching some of your videos I am reading them again I'm on my second read I'm clash right now good job
Thank you so much
You guys are the only ones that cover Faceless Men lore, thank you for that!
Jaqen has been my fav since I saw him in that cage back in S2
Question: Can Arya continue to be
(or act as) a "faceless man assassin" now that she's re-claimed her Stark Name?
*Always* a pleasure, Thanx!
I cannot see her storyline going like that in the books...the faceless men don't chase people through the streets like that ridiculous scene where a borderline mortally wounded Arya was chased through the streets by the waif, and the Kindly Man would be very unlikely to just let her go and be like "yea its totally cool that you learned the ways of the most secretive and deadly assassin cult in the world and now you want to go home...I understand"...in the books I see it having a bloodier end, and when she leaves she would be terrified that anyone around her might be one of them and won't be taking casual strolls through the city in broad daylight
*yeah* *it's* *totally* *cool* *you* *learned* *our* *ways* *now* *you* *wanna* *go* *home* *no* *prob!*
Ha! I thought the same thing- Thank you!
I think I might have actually yelled that at the tv when it was happening
OK?? Not to mention she stole one of their masks and then did it again.... and again!
I like how original your theories are. Keep it up.
You guys saved sunday :).
+Midget Nipple hi midget!! Yay
Yay hi what is coming next :) ?
Tywin 4, then most likely another Faceless Men...at least at this point that is the plan, but our ADD gets the better of us sometimes,
Well hurry up :)
All the videos are very insightful and thought provoking. Nicely done
Thank you
Black part of the door of the building of the faceless men is ironwood, same as the doors of cripts of Winterfell - and Ironwood burns blue, maybe that is the same wood that warlocks of Carth use for shade of the evening...
I actually think shade of the evening is a combination of the two
This channel is fantastic
You guys are incredible. :) I was so convinced that R+L=J but your theory works so damn well (especially the kingsguard part) that now I lean towards your version of the story. But perhaps the best thing about your videos is the fact that they make so much sense in the grand scheme of things; that is the war against the children, the others, the winter etc. Truth be told, the amount of work you did is unbelievable. Alt Shift X should just give you all his patreon money and go hide in a corner. u_u Keep it up!
WhiteEagle Right? I'm so deeply impressed how they connect so many clues out of over 5000 pages (without Awoiaf und Tales of Dunk and Egg) and are able to create a big picture over it that connects so perfectly well. It's truly amazing
Thank you both so much
I have been searching for an answer to what they do with the dead bodies in The House of Black and White for the past few days because it has really been bugging me. Thank you for an answer, even if it might not be the one GRRM uses!
it bothered me for the longest time, until we made the connection between the cave where bran is and the House of Black and White...at which point we noticed that there was no Weirwood in Braavos but they claim all gods are represented there...then the HoBaW=worlds largest blood sacrifice seemed to make too much sense to ignore
again a really good video, i cant imagine the hours of research and work you put into these videos
thank you so much....it depends on the topic
yeah i guess, but still watching these videos i can feel the love you put in them
that is very much appreciated
Yay! I've been SOOO looking forward to this!
hope you enjoyed it
Does anyone ever comment on their respective Weirwood trees (on their castles, grounds, lands etc) having different expressions on them sometimes? I can't remember, but in my head, the tree at Winterfell always has a long, solemn face. Does this then mean that only *one* greenseer (most likely BR, I guess?) has looked in it whilst the current Stark family have been in residence/alive?
Is it the same at other Weirwood locations? If there are so many different COTF/other greenseers, you'd think they'd be looking into Winterfell quite a lot, but the face (to my knowledge) has always been the same. Maybe they *make* themselves take on that solemn appearance so as not to raise suspicion, and Bran's just a newbie.
Not to mention Qhohor is basically a logging camp with a big market. In other words it's in a deep dark woods.
Gives me a thought. After World of IaF came out it was said repeatedly that the lack of a Qarth chapter spoke to the great importance "The Greatest City There Ever Was Or Will Be" must have to the rest of the story. However, you've painted quite a different picture with the information given in tWoIaF. One that shows a connection of like minded fanatics, many of whom may actually be different races of "children" spread throughout every city mentioned in tWoIaF. Through your interpretation each of these groups are much different than what we are led to believe, and seeing as their true selves are identical in nature, if not species, suddenly their inclusion in tWoIaF speaks to a puzzle, hidden, but meant to be discovered. Assume I'm right that you've solved this hidden puzzle and expand that line of thinking to every culture mentioned in tWoIaF, no matter how distant or seemly inconsequential, assume for a moment that with more information they too would be revealed in their basest nature to fall clearly on one side or the other of this great conflict and suddenly everything, and I mean everything ever written about this world suddenly clicks into place. The mysteries this will solve, questions it will answer, concepts it will redesign... I shiver at the thought. This has only come to me now, as I write this, but I already know it to be true. I believe a careful reread of tWoIaF, which I will begin today, could yield a proper work that could take months if not years to be researched and submitted for peer review. I think you've broken the code, unearthed the Rosetta stone of asoiaf, revealed the key that explains the entire song of Ice and Fire. Do you even realize what you've done? This is incredible. Well done. You need to examine this more, because eventually someone else will and you deserve the credit. Bravo!
Love you guys and the amazing job you do with GRRM works. I hope he proves you guys right with the N+A=J theory in the books.
thank you...so do we...I just really feel like the story with Jon as a sword of the morning as opposed to being the king is so much bigger
The Order of the Green Hand Definitely feel the same way and the many references to his excellent swordsmanship in the books as well as in the show is difficult to ignore. I feel like the show diverted story his story a lil bit
im reading AFFC and ADWD at the same time(the boiled leather reading order) im at Arya I AFFC when arya is being being taken ashor to the house of black and white i noticed something next came a huge brick structure festooned with lichen.Arya might have taken it for a storehouse had yorko not said"that is the holy refuge where we honor the SMALL GODS the world has forgotten.you will hear it called the WARREN too" its only a short row after this that shes at the house of black and white and it has a cannal running through it.i cant find a detailed enough map but i think it may be pretty close to the house of black and white maybe even connected to it underground.small gods the world has forgotten. the Warren sounds like the children of the forrest to me. in the same chapter arya reflect on how the Titan of Bravos could step over the walls of winterfell.thats the second time the titan of bravos has been mentioned stepping into winter fell with lttlefinger being the first stepping over both walls of Sansas snowcastle his house sigil the titans head even Roberts doll(giant/titan) that smashes the gates of the snowcastle ends up just a head.
I think the children finally figured out how to use the difference in life spans to remove all of the knowledge mankind had used against them previously as well as anything that enabled mankind to endure the extreme weather long enough to see the end of the long night .
So what I'm understanding of all of this is that the valyrians were basically everything the children of the forest hated? Religious pluralism and tolerance vs religious monotheism and fanaticism, fire-loving and riding towards the skies vs cave-dwelling and night-stalking, tall and fair vs short and brown-ish... both controlled creatures to do their biddings tho (dragons or wolves or whatever)...
I mean, it seems to me that what this whole thing is driving at the fact that the children are the mortal enemies of humanity and have always been and have created a number of things to destroy humanity. Be it the Others or, through deception, spurned on anti-humanist cults and religions to make men kill each other. And humanity is failing to understand all this and even plays into the hands of the long con the children set out.
Bummer.
I really like that idea of Valyrians representing everything the children hate...I will definitely be looking at that closely in the coming weeks
Drop everything, there is a new vid from the order of the greenhand
I like the way you think
This is a great breakdown on the Faceless Men; their involvement in the endgame is going to be a hell of a story. The World of Ice and Fire is an awesome book, but I didn't think there might be actual clues hidden there. I took it with a grain of salt because it seemed that the 2 non-GRRM authors were writing fan fiction and conjecture about far flung places that would not show up in the series, along with some oversight and contributions from George. I know he wrote parts, but I just saw it as a companion piece with great artwork.
On another note, I was checking my notifications last night and didn't see anything recent from your channel. Looked through my subs and somehow I was un-subbed. I've heard people talking about this happening for a while now, but I didn't seem to be affected. I have notifications turned on for you guys and only a handful of other channels. Now I've got you bookmarked in case it happens again. Good to see your subs are otherwise taking off; it's much deserved.
Thank you so much
The male commentator sounds exactly like Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul
thank you (assuming sounding like Howard is a good thing)
The idea that only skinchangers/ wars have faces that can be worn by faceless men makes truly no sense. That would mean that they wouldn't be able to impersonate the vast majority of people. I think that's a leap of logic based upon a simple turn of phrase. If Arya said "hundreds of faces looked down on her" it's still just a person saying "a lot of faces".
+The Order of the Green Hand Great Video as usual. I was wondering if you all have came across a very obscure theory that involves religion somewhat. I've only seen it mentioned a couple of times in relation to GoT, but this series of videos made me think back to a video that kind of lays out the reason that GRRM might be working towards something similar. The theory is called the "Fibonacci" code/number or text. The reason I thought It might make sense is because the people that tied this theory to GoT mentioned a video I seen called "What is God? According to 13 year old genius physicist - Max Loughan"(you can find this with a simple search). With his thoughts on the actual code/theory I can see why it might make some sense in the Thrones universe or at least something GRRM might work towards since there is already so much Religious theories and what they all mean. You all seem to be the only channel that would be able to give it some deep thought as this series of videos as well as your other work shows. Please Keep up the great work...We love your channel !
I really appreciate all of your videos. You have such new takes and ideas that I've not heard before.
Thank you
I'm starting to love this theory and I'm planning to reread the books with this idea in mind.
I doubt arya literally counted every single face. She saw a large number of faces and said she saw a large number of faces.
"Arya saw four million five hundred and thirty one thousand, seven hundred and eighty three faces"
Other than that I think this is a pretty solid theory
So there is this thing that strikes me again and again while watching your videos...
When you mention the three-eyed crow here and say that it "tends to visit those who are on the verge of death and uses their natural will to live to convince them to make a deal with the devil", I clearly and immediately imagine a picture of the slashed young Petyr Baelish right after his duel with Brandon Stark.
Further you speak of "a portal through which demonic possession is possible". Afair George R.R. Martin said somewhere something like that he only knows who a character truly is once that character has a name - so names actually have a deeper meaning. So why is Littlefinger named Bael-ish as in demon-ish in the first place? Coincidence?
Apart from the topic of the video but also related to the name thing:
Why is he called Petyr? What does Petyr mean? Petyr is clearly an adaptation of Peter which means stone. Does "stone" ring any bell? That's what they call bastards in the Vale of Arryn. What if he is a Stone instead of a Baelish?
But who's child would he be? He's small and slim with grey-green eyes that afaik tend to sometimes have either more green or more grey, depending on whatever (most likely his mood). He's clearly no warrior, tho he seems to be very agile and somehow skilled (I've just started to read the books, but how he plays around with the catspaw dagger when we're introduced to him clearly stroke me). He's very smart and cunning, strives on chaos and has countless spies in his service.
Are the faceless men things to have Arya kill bloodraven?Bran? They seem pretty concerned about her not being a Stark anymore, but seen to reward her desire to kill. The caverns could be connected to bloodravens cave, and maybe the weirwoods keeping him dying is an "offense to the baby faced God of death".
Love the videos, it's difficult to decide what to watch next, they're all so good.
YASSSSSSSS!!! Waited for this!!! Thank you guys so much!!
+Mr. Gentleman you're welcome!!! 😊
Another great video. Can't wait for the next.
Thank you so much
I love it! Thank you! I always wanted to know more about the Faceless Man. It all makes sense, I hope it is reveal soon that you are right!
Thank you...so do we ;)
Been waiting for this video all day
hope it was worth the wait
oh it was trust me !!
Awesome video! Keep up the great work! I really enjoy listening to your channel as you are so thorough and have some non mainstream views which is fascinating! Thank you for putting so much time and effort into your work!!!
+Chiaroscuro Amore thanks for watching and for recognizing the hard work. It definitely is! Haha but we enjoy it
Hi Order of the Green Hand, I'm enjoying your video series on the Faceless men very much. To add another parallel between BR and Bran's cave and the HoBaW, they are both beneath 'hollow hills'. [HoBaW is built on a knoll or hill with many underground levels] And Beric as BR's parallel is also situated within a hollow hill. In Celtic Mythology the underworld is accessed via the hollow hills and I think George has hidden loads of them throughout the series, the HoBaW being a prime example. There are also a load hidden in Westeros and that is the subject of my essay which can be read here asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/143917-the-caves-are-timeless-hollow-hills-magic-castles-and-greenseers/ if you so desire of course.The comments section touches on a lot of what you've spoken about [though not all by a long stretch] and I thought you may appreciate the read. If not, no worries it's good to see others investigating the underworld and all that entails. Keep up the good work. :)
The Wolf's Den is my favorite place to be....Great job guys!
Thank you kindly good sir
The Order of the Green Hand Lol, I'm a woman but you are welcome all the same 😜
I'm so sorry...we had previously talked about the morrigan's depiction in a video game and I made a foolish assumption
The Order of the Green Hand lol it's ok, I guess most people that talk about Morrigan are men (she is a possible love interest in the game I was telling you about). Maybe not that many "gamer-girls" out here either? Had Alistair or better yet Zervan ❤ (the male love interests) had some folk-lore trickery tied to their names and how it relates to ASOIAF it would have been obvious for all the world to see the woman behind the mask of "Guess Who" 😉
I just feel like such an idiot...you're always so nice
Near the end where you talk about the way people are killed w/o spilling blood also reminds me of something Melisandra said about spoiling the meat when you kill. And they never see the knife she says. I wonder if that may be the reason it is important that the faceless men convince those who want it that it is a relief to take the poison. Don't spoil the meat!
that's an interesting idea...I hadn't thought about it before...it just seems like they want intact dead for some reason
You guys have really got me thinking about these caverns now...it seems impossible--but how far do you think they go? Do you think they're isolated, city-contained networks or something that could be an entire subterranean layer to Planetos? I just assumed that the various groups communicated via the weirwoods (which seems to be where you're going with this I think...that the Children of the Forest in Westeros are plotting something--or at least coordinating--with other races of Children/aligned groups in Essos as well)...but do you think it could be more elaborate than that? The term "Underworld" implies a whole other "world" beneath the whole planet's surface...
we've been building up to our theory on the caverns...it will be coming soon
+The Order of the Green Hand Can't wait!
I wonder.....does Jaqen Hagar see things through the Weirwood just as BR and Bran can?
that is something I've never thought about before...not sure...I don't think so but it is definitely possible
You guys mentioned in one of your videos that the stars don't shine in Bravos. Could the stars play a role in the way the glass candles were used?
Great video as always guys!
Thank you
I love your videos! Good job :)
+Ma7xerEcploderD thank you!!
Braavo (;
Love that you discredited the 'Arya kill Sansa' theory. If anything, it'd be the other way around. Sansa knows that she's more Tully, more Catelyn (who conveniently is a traitor to the North) and has already seen that the North will ignore rules of succession in their choosing of Jon 'the Bastard' Snow as their King. Also giving Littlefinger the manipulator to perhaps convince Sansa to betray the Stark fam (yet again) in thinking she's doing what's best for the North and falling for Petyr's tricks AGAIN. Thus continuing that cycle of mother-daughter parallels.
(Although I will say, they may have as that was Robb's last order.)
So, without a doubt she sees Arya come home, as well as Bran - both contenders to her potential power - and not only is she well, but well-trained and presumably quite hard to kill. Oh, and she's become some amazing mentalist and is like "Dont you be lyin biiiish" Sansa looks down from the balcony like "God DAMNIT everyone's a goddamn super hero wtf"
Not only that, but Sansa was A. In KL for forever with Cersei B. Married to Tyrion C. Friend of Baelish and D. (In the show at least) Also married to a Bolton.
Not a great track record. And the North remembers.
What do you think?
This is gonna keep me up tonight, my head is spinning with info.
hahaha...Try researching this dark stuff...Lady Green Hand didn't sleep for like a week
Oh god, you poor girl. I hope he gave you some chocolate to cheer you up!
Lol, I see, well it is not impossible, nothing is with Martin
The House of Black and White has many levels underground and its Weirwood tree, just like Winterfell which has it own Weirwood tree grove with it own black pool and the burial crypt of the rulers of Winterfell.
very true! good points.
Amazing video as always!
+dux bellorum thank you!!!
I wonder if the Faceless Men lured Arya there to enhance her greenseeing abilities, because they eventually want to take her face and use her body as a blood sacrifice.
They want her for reasons they certainly don't tell her
+The Order of the Green Hand Arya is my favorite character book wise so I am deeply interested where her plot is going. I do not trust the Faceless Men. why would they recruit a mentally unstable young girl to be an assassin? it didn't sit well.
Death religion: children and their trees, faceless men and the many faced God, Andals the 7 and stranger are all the same so why did the Andals destroy the trees.
94 steps is only 60 feet if you use regulation step height. That is not very deep. Then again George sucks at distances.
Great video! I love your theories! But I think it isn't universal that opening the third eye is believed to be dark or satanic. As a matter of fact I'm interested in where you got that idea? This link from Wikipedia discusses many religions' beliefs about the 3rd eye and they all have to do with spiritual enlightenment, not evil.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_eye
*scratches* need...more...greenhand!!!! 0_0 you two are just that awesome.
Thank you so much Lauren
"so, let's do this" dundundundundun
the best.
+liam henderson haha yea we just started saying that one day and then decided we should say that every time. 😊
Great video! You guys did it again! :D love the new concepts to think of like the skinchangers for the faces, the tunnels and the underground, the connections between the gods and different cities! Great work! Thank you so much, it's more than obvious that you guys put a lot of work into this. Thank you!
Thank you so much for watching
The one thing i wish is that ashara was lady of winterfell and not catshiltyn turdy
I think it is safe to say that Ashara would have handled Catelyn's role significantly better than Catelyn did
The Order of the Green Hand hell yay and she would have two great kids a girl whos the second coming of nymeria a strong girl with great beauty and a skilled handsome son and she would have Been WAYYYYY smarter and more sensical than cat
Good video. Though I think there's a perfectly good explanation for why there is only a 1000 or so faces. They don't collect faces from every victim. It would be incredibly hard to retrieve a body let alone cut off someone's face while remaining incognito. In fact nearly every faceless men kill in the books doesn't involve taking that person's face.
Umm, are you sure about that fact? Remember all those dead bodies that Arya and the waif would go and pick up each day from the different alcoves that are located around the pool of poison at the House of Black and White? There were always bodies. Everyday several bodies to be "given to the faceless men". That's why the number of 1000 faces seems to be so off.
oops! posted too soon. The Faceless Men do not only take the faces of those they assassinate , they also take the faces of those who seek "the gift" that can been found inside the House of Black and White. Basically, the folks who come there to die either due to injury - like the bravossi swordsman that was hurt during a fight or the elderly lady who did nit want ti be a burden to her family anymore.
Julie Calcote yeah that's why I said I think there's a reasonable explanation as to why there isn't more faces. It would be really hard to take someone's face during a high profile assassination.
Great video as always. High quality and lots of knowledge to be had.
thank you so much
I know you both must be very busy. I'm so looking forward to seeing your next video. I hope you'll give us a couples shot when subs hit 20k. May I say that Lady Green Hand will make a stunning bride! Beauty and brains, You'll be a blessed groom, to be sure!
she most certainly will...I am a lucky man...there is no disputing that...I believe Lady Green Hand was just making another Order of the Green Hand pic of us that she plans on doing something with while I was finishing up our script for our first Littlefinger video, which should be online tomorrow morning
Green Hand, Littlefinger ! That's tremendously good news. I'll even turn on the notification bell for that! As always, best regards! no reply necessary
how did you come to the conclusion that they only use the faces of Wargs??? I haven't come across anything to indicate that.
based on the number of faces they have...1000 is about 1/1000 as many as they should have which happens to be the odds that a person is born with the ability to skinchange, and since face-changing and skinchanging seems to require the same magical gifts, it seems fairly logical that they only keep the faces of those born with the magical ability to skinchange...it's not a lot to go on, but it was the only thing I could think of to explain how they could have so few faces when they bring in about 1000 potential new faces per year and have been there for anywhere between 700-1300 years...they should have 1,000,000 faces by now
The Order of the Green Hand .. I guess when you put it like that it does make sense..
I'm a real numbers person, and the fact that they only had 1000 faces immediately got my attention because when Arya is still just the cleaning lady at the House of Black and White, she finds 2-5 bodies each morning...then when we were doing the Bloodraven videos I noticed that ratio Bloodraven tells Bran and it seemed too perfect a fit to ignore, especially when considering the two places seem to be identical in all but construction
The Order of the Green Hand... I have one more question... are all of the Faceless Men wargs then?
The House of Black and White eats the dead bodies.
Arya: What's this shit?
KM: It's pork child, just pork.
But Arya knew what it was because she'd had man flesh in her wolf dreams.
A weirwood may be a magical creature, but it still need sunlight for photosynthesis. They won't grow in the Eyrie for want of good soil.
one grows in a cave below Casterly Rock...there's no sun in a cave...there is also a weirwood tree gate under the Nightfort that Bran and Co go through to get North of the Wall
ITS ABOUT TO GET WILD😊
The ego separates the mind from the soul. To rid the ego, is to merge ones mind to the universal soul/ pure consciousness/ force/ creator. The faceless men are attempting levels of this with Death.
OMG! These videos are amazing!!! :/
My favorite part of her accusing the kindly man of hitting her is that he doesnt know How she knows it was him be he knows that she does know
You guys rock! When's the next one?? lol
thank you...we're already working on it
dope are you guys still gonna do that video with The Don Tony Teflon?
Thank you...unfortunately the collab never ended up happening...it was a good experience but getting Lady Green Hand and I to agree on something is difficult to begin with, and adding Tony to the equation turned it into a very interesting debate, but with him being a firm R+L=J theorist and us being an N+A=J channel, there were some major topics that we couldn't agree on and if we don't agree it is hard to make a good video so we decided to part as friends
The Order of the Green Hand dope dope
Nice! But I don't really get why the faces would have to be from other skinchangers to work, and I really doubt Pate was one. Maybe the faces in the hall are just the ones that haven't been used yet - it seems that they can wear several faces at once (maybe even hundreds?).
How I interpreted it from the books: A face is permanently sewed on, and it melts in with your own face so you can choose to skinchange it. This lines up nicely with the "no-one" philosophy, because your own face would eventually not be any different from the other layers you skinchange into.
This doesn't match up with the show, bit could still work for the books.
Thank you...it seems to me that there had to have been a reason he targeted Pate...of all the people at the Citadel, he decided Pate was his way in...we're going to do a Jaqen video very soon so I'll save the rest of my thoughts on the topic for that
Hmm! Interesting, looking forward to it!
I just figured pate was chosen because of his character (a bit stupid and greedy), and because he could easily provide a universal key as he worked with the senile grandmaester. I don't know if he was already close with Marwyn at that point (which would make him an obvious choice), or if maybe marwyn knows that he is a fake... 🤔
I guess Preston was kinda right to theorize that Rorge and Biter might have had been Faceless Men, but I think, unfortunately for them their Face's identity is so vile that it managed to over power them, possessing their bodies entirely. freakin creepy... and there I was, hoping Arya will wear Ramsey or Roose's face in the future (as a middle finger to the Boltons tradition of wearing Stark skin).
That’s a fairly pointless theory. If they were or were not Faceless Men does it really matter?
possible connections to ancient Winterfell, when thinking about the depths of such places.
for some reason I see Winterfell's depths as serving a protective purpose, but the unknown depths of it is an interesting parallel
If your theory is correct, you got to hand it to the Faceless Men... they cracked the code to get others to worship their gawd while giving them the delusion that they worshipped different gawds. And no one suspects a thing. I'm honestly impressed.
So I'm trying to figure out who the unnamed faceless men are. Any ideas? I think George is throwing the checkovs gun or whatever having these characters in there. You guys may have mentioned it before so sorry if you have, but really love your opinion, I was wondering what you guys thought
i really enjoy this faceless men series 😁
Thank you
Hey I have a question; Have you guys read The Tales of Dunk and Egg or The World of Ice and Fire?
we've read both, and the Rogue Prince and the Princess and the Queen...the last two we've only read once but the others we've read at least 3 times
This was awesome! I love the linkages of these religions going back to a single source. It sounds like the evil one god has been around longer than the lord of light. So, wouldn't the white walkers be associated with the evil god? Do the wights have any blood or has that been drained and offered to the evil god as blood sacrifice? Both the white walkers and the evil god seem bent on humanities destruction. Rather than use faces like the faceless men, the night king uses the whole body, at least, what's left of it. Wight blood would seem to be unnecessary given the night king's animation of the dead is based on some king of magic. It's also interesting to note that the walk walkers attack humanity from the north, and the other elements attach or originate from east and south. The only direction not covered is the west, where you have folks like Euron who appear to be in league with an evil god as well. It is not inconceivable that the tunnels run under the seas so that humanity is surrounded, regardless of where it is. Now, if you require blood sacrific, you need a steady supply of bodies whether human or other animal. So does humanity become "livestock" and managed by the evil god? Wouldn't they want to stop the wars so that they can continue their parasitic existence? Okay, I'm rambling here. Lots to think about....
Wooohooo! Let's do this!
hope you enjoyed
It's a great catch phrase, and the music is stuck in my head now, I anticipate it :D
Feeling better already ;)
+Rob Eerto excellent! Haha
another video whilst thou provide? you're blowing my mind with this one. is essosi history key to understanding the long night? perhaps bran (back to the future bran) is the last hero that hasn't happened yet. the five forts is (are)the actual wall that bran the builder built. suppose the night king can do some time travel himself, flip the script, now he can game take bran back to the long night in essos leave him there while the long night begins in westeros? the dark water may be a connecting point to all planetos. the water under the wall, water in blood ravens cave, house of black and white. if bran is stuck in time somehow do the dark waters offer bran a solution? just saying. good video by the way:)
we think all history is the key to trying to figure out the first long night, and that a lot of the legendary figures from those histories are going to have counterparts in this new long night
I feel a bit of context is being missed, by emphasizing the spiritual risk of enlightenment. You are correct, but this doesn't mean one should always avoid the pursuit of enlightenment. Those able to consciously open the thirdeye would be tempted by demons, but could not be harmed so long as they kept faith. Every mystic of every faith has always faced these demonic temptations as a test or trap, often in a continuous way. Jesus is also known to have been tempted in almost the exact same way as the Buddha described, which was the same as many mystics from Santana Dharma, Vodun, and druidism before him. Islam also warns of the increased temptation which comes with enlightenment. Each spiritual abode also exists in the body, as chakras - which the third eye is part of. To master the third eye, all other chakras must first be navigated. This is often described as a maze, because each of these spiritual "rooms" has specific spiritual traps for those not wise enough. The water chakra might ensnare with lust, the riches of the crystal caverns might bind you to the material realm with greed. Each of these rooms is also associated with a color, which Arthurian legend, Poe, Lovecraft, and GRRM all make conscious use of.
He who would not be named? LORD VOLDEMORT 😲😲😲😱
Good thing Harry Potter took care of that faker
I wonder if house of the undying sacrifice anything to their blue weirwood or if the summer islander sacrifice to their yellow weirwood. would eb nice if we had any info on that
12:55
Aight, quick pointer:
It's not *the* Shub-niggurath, it's just Shub-niggurath. Furthermore, it should be pronounced Shub-(Yea I'm not typing out the n word)-oth, not Shub-nigroth.
Was the picture used toward the end of the video (with all the skulls) from kutna hora in Czech Republic?
I have to admit I have no idea...I searched for a picture of a tunnel of bones or something like that and that was the best pic I found for it
Either way I appreciate your videos and the hard work you two put into these videos. Cheers!
Thank you so much. Littlefinger part 1 will be online in about 10 minutes