Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Did Benjen Trick Jon?
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2019
- What the heck is Benjen really up to and why did he end up at the Wall?
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This is like a breath of fresh air amidst the stench of all the D&D BS. Thank you.
And we all know you're not talking about Dungeons and Dragons, which unironically is what Game of Thrones turned into.
I'm sure Hollywood would like everyone's brain to be turned off permanently if they can help it.
I just finished binge watching the whole of GoT in a week and am curious as to why the show gets so much hate. Sure, the last couple of seasons were shorter and had quite a few things that were annoying but I can't understand why people think they were 'that' awful.
@@BadNews885 There is a thousand videos on youtube explaining one reason or another
Read the books. You will quickly understand the hate.
Hmm I never realised how cold benjen actually was, I guess I'm still kind of blind by show benjen, thanks for pointing this out and keep up the good work.
Tywin Lannister and there‘s the point; show version of Benjen (only season one) is as likely as this theory
Notorious 😂I laughed way to hard at this
Notorious1503 died on the shitter no less 😂😂😂
I always wondered if Benjen "snuck out" to join the feast at Winterfell. There seems to be no reason for Mormont to grant him leave to party. Benjen shows up at Wintetfell, eats drinks and doesnt bother speaking to Ned then leaves. Am I missing something here.
The order of the green hand theory of Ned sending Benjen to the wall to hide Jon’s parentage is plausible but so is anyone else’s. Your idea of Mormont allowing Benjen to go to Winterfell is interesting especially the timing of Robert one and only royal precession asking Ned to be the hand. Why then? We don’t get to see Benjen interact with anyone else of importance. Mormont could have allowed Benjen to go at anytime. They might be larger game at play. Benjen has a pretty established relationship with Jon for a man of the watch and first ranger (he isn’t a recruiter ie travels mostly north of the wall) so he must visit fairly often is might be odd for a guy who basically has disowned his family. If Ned sent Benjen to the wall because he basically is a second son should be pissed off or vengeful. I’m wondering if Mormont, Ned, Benjen being first ranger maybe involved Mance, Craster and maybe others into a grander conspiracy. Is Jon the north’s insurance policy if it turns out Rob is Brandon’s child and/or if Rob died? Jon being a Ned clone and 100% loyal to the North if the kingdoms ever splintered the only one capable of leading the north? Does Ned truly believe with Robert at the helm instead of the Dragon lords who ruled with fear-the kingdoms are on the verge of collapse but he will try his best to prevent that from happening so he sends Jon in his trusted brother’s care and leadership like Mormont (maybe at some point Koran, Tormund and Mance) to be the leader he can be? Does Benjen keep his distance from Ned so it’s not obvious they have a secret plan that the royal party or anyone else can know about?. Benjen does dress awfully fancy for a guy who’s job is more or less a survivalist north of the wall…in my opinion.
the "Lord of Light" deemed it so
He probably let him go with the hope of him talking to King Robert about sending new recruits. Ned did attempt to broach the subject with the king.
@@swordothemorning This. There was nothing else to it, Benjen was first ranger and was only proper that he ask Robert or anyone important from the King's party for recruits.
Would be pretty cool if Benjen came specifically to speak with Mance.
"Hello, and welcome back to the Wolf's Den"
These words are not wind
Here's one I cooked up for you... What if Benjen was as ambitious as many of the other characters in the story, and made a play to become Lord of Winterfell when Ned and Robert are defeated, but they won, and thus ruined his plan? Maybe Lyanna's promise has nothing to do with Jon, or her stillborn baby, and she begged Ned not to have Benjen executed. Ned forces Benjen to go to the Wall but lets him save face by "volunteering." Ned would likely forbid Benjen from returning, their interactions are not brotherly, but because of his promise not to execute him, and because he is a Night's Watch brother Ned is forced to interact and welcome Benjen so long as he is not deserting or breaking any laws. Haha! Just digging rabbit holes...
But as for Benjen's attire, remember that the Night's Watch didn't exactly have uniforms. Waymar Royce wears much nicer clothing than his fellow rangers in the prologue. Of the members of the Night's Watch that we get to meet, are any as wealthy as House Stark? Maybe Janos Slynt? And maybe the three Stark brothers were like the three Baratheon brothers: Brandon-Robert, Ned-Stannis, Benjen-Renley.
House Royce would likely be a bit richer than House Stark (considering how close Runestone is to Gulltown), but you've mentioned Waymar already.
Oh I like this, there are far too many good Starks, it would be interesting seeing a more grey, Lannister-like character if you will
Its true that the Watch doesn't have as much of an uniform as a dress code. You need to wear all black and for your own good it should be made for the cold but it's not standardised. Also love the Baratheon-Stark brother trio mirroring thing. Your theories are great.
Nice theory definitely plausible since all the Starks seem honorable. Every family has a Black 🐑
Very interesting.... I do agree that Benjen definitely knew and didn't tell his motivations are unclear and Ned definitely sent him to The Wall in any account. His eyes may still have some laughter in them but it only hides the bitterness and resentment burried deep within.
He deserted. That's for sure. Maybe with Ned so far away he felt safe to do so or maybe he was in on some secret I'm not thinking of right now. I took a break from rereading the books every year since George can't get his shit together. 🤷♀️
“My father dreamed of resettling the Gift,” Jon admitted. “He and my uncle Benjen used to talk of it.” - Storm of Swords, Jon , Ch. 76
we didn't say they don't talk...it just doesn't appear that they talk about anything other than business
What gets me is that this is simply not possible to do. The North is sparsely populated to begin with, and the smallfolk would not want to live so close to the Wall with the threat of Wildlings. Smallfolk cannot be ordered to move on that scale, not enough to make a difference. Thousands would be needed to make such a plan feasible. The Gift provides a buffer. It takes coin to raise new keeps, and the burden would fall squarely on Ned. Mormont was also quite prickly, and might not have agreed in the first place. For all we know, the idea was spoken of and dismissed as being impossible, or it would have been done long before.
House Dayne's secret words "Ned sent Benjen to the wall" George planned it all!
I thought Ned Stark usually fought Kat to have Jon sit at the table like any of his other children, hence why Benjen wondered why he was hidden away in the back for once.
It would’ve seemed odd to him that Ned caved and treated Jon like a bastard when he usually didn’t.
Atleast that’s what I took from it.
I kind of felt like Ned knew enough about Cersei to not want things to go awry the first time he saw his best friend in 9 years, and he accepted Cat's idea based on that
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand yeah Jon said Cersei was already angry, Ned could perhaps saw it and thought better of poking an angry woman further.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand In one of Cersei's POV chapters she reflects that Catelyn has "no spine" because she never arranged to have Jon murdered. Definitely better to just keep Jon out of her sight.
Hm, 5 years late but: couldn't it also be that Benjen wanted to probe if Jon already knew about his parents? Maybe Benjen knew Jon was always sitting at the family table but now that Robert is here, he is not allowed to. Maybe Benjen figured that Ned did not want Robert to be able to look at Jon all evening/night and maybe asking too many questions that could lead to somebody figuring out the truth.
So we are suggesting that Benjen manipulated the Jon to the wall situation to spite his brother. I always wonder why he instigated the conversation about the wall, you might be on to something here.
If this theory is true(from the evidence presented, I think it is true), this would give even more credence to Jon being Neds son. Why would Benjen use lyanna's son(and rightful king) to get revenge on Ned for sending him to the wall? If the whole point of Benjen holding a grudge comes from him being mad at Ned for the way he handled the situation with R+L, and the fact that Benjen was really close with Lyanna, that would seem to be even more evidence that Jon really is Neds son.
Rod Stone Jon wouldn’t be rightful king even if he is Lyanna and Rhaegar‘s son
GRRM points out several times how much Jon looks and acts like Ned. I truely believe Jon will turn out to be Ned's (trueborn) son in the books.
Peter Parker he also points out how much Arya looks like Lyanna and she isn‘t hers...
@@michelmorio8026 but she doesn't 😂. 'Horseface' Arya. I think Arya's resmblence to Lyanna is more her looks in conjunction with her personality and demeanor rather than solely looks like its suggested in the case of Jon, there is so much emphasis and harping on about how Jon looks like Ned its crazy.
Kamou flage why do I even argue; it seems you only see, what you wanna see
I would like to see a video about the great northern conspiracy.
Alt shift x or why create have created the video I know I am too late
The show isn't fun to watch anymore but I still have you guys.
Thank y’all so much for bringing back the book theories during the season. I love the show, but I can’t believe how much I actually missed talking/listening about book theories. Keep pumping out the good stuff!
I couldn't say it better. This is exactly how I feel
In a way, this could tie in really well with your theory of N+A=J. I think if Jon was really Lyanna's son, I think Benjen would have been a lot nicer to him considering that Jon would be the child of his favorite sibling. Or something like that.
Yeah considering that relationship with Rhaegar brought doom upon her and entire Stark family pretty much ruined her life I doubt he could look past that
@@emotionallyslutty Not if he helped them hide (as there is a theory that says Rhaegar and Lyanna were hiding in the crypts of Winterfell, instead of the Tower of Joy in Dorne), which would mean he also had a part of the doom of his family, which would justify why Ned doesn't seem to like him very much and why he was sent to the Wall
Victoria Exactly! I think he had some genuine animosity between him and Ned. Think about it: Ned comes home to rally the troops for marching south w/ Ashara and Baby Jon in tow, finds out R+L were hiding in the First Keep (aka. Tower of Joy) making Baby Aegon (+Baby Val??), and not only was Benjen complicit but he knew the truth of Baby Aegon’s claim. Considering OTGH’s great timeline analysis, it’s likely Rhaegar had left behind Sers Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower to guard Lyanna - all of whom had broken their vows by not protecting their King, Prince, or Princesses. They might’ve fought, but Lyanna’s dying from childbirth meant there were no credible witnesses save for Benjen, so Ned devises a plan to swap the three babies (Aegon/Ashara, Val/Arthur, Jon/Ned) and send everyone North or East. Benjen’s joining the Night’s Watch would be the excuse to bring along Dayne and Whent (as Mance and Qorin), they’d rise the ranks of the Rangers, and get themselves in important positions for when Tormund (Hightower) started uniting the tribes as King-Beyond-The-Wall. Mance deserts, "defeats" Tormund in a duel, and sets about uniting the wildling with storybook ease b/c the First Ranger and the Half-Hand can’t manage to catch him. It would better explain his anger imo if, after all those years of sacrifice, he thinks Ned has seated their House’s only true-born heir below Tully bastards. Maybe he thinks it’s time Jon met his OTHER uncle...Arthur Danye (aka. Mance)?
Ameratsu Rivers if there were twins they could have easily been born early. Everyone always assumes 40 week gestation when trying to figure out the conception to birth timeline.
Opps! I meant twins
The google says twins are full term at 37 weeks and they are usually born between 32 to 37 weeks.
AND. They count weeks pregnant from last period so week 1 and 2 you are “pregnant” but you aren’t. So in the timeline you would use 33 weeks to 30 weeks from conception to birth.
“The moron playing the high harp”😂that made my day
I think maybe Benjen might of chosen the wall as he felt bad for the deaths of his father and brother if only he told them Lyanna and Rhaegar had meet and kinda liked each other (knight of the laughing tree theory) they would still be alive and even if they didn’t believe him he tried and after seeing life at the wall and how shit it is he’s pissed Ned let him go without a second thought
Stunning. This makes so much sense. Benjen wanted revenge, so he took Ned's son.
Finally a video that is not a 5 hour long stream with an information density of 0.001% ;) Great!
Yeah, I honestly think all those streams from GoT youtubers lately has just been a last minute attempt at a cash grab since they know their cash cow (the TV show) was ending soon
I always wondered if Benjen knew about the actual circumstances of Jon’s birth.
icfury I think he absolutely knew
icfury then there is the question which birth... this matter can get quite confusing on this channel
of course he knew... Probably he wanted to tell the truth, that is why he was sent to the Wall...
The Order, true to their word and packing theory heat!
I don't often agree with your theories and analysis's conclusions, but this one makes so much sense I won't be convinced it's not the truth.
This, for me, paints a much different picture of Benjen.
Really looking forward for the followup.
Something you might consider for the next video is what Bran saw happen to Benjen when he crossed stick swords with Lyanna. He fell into the godswood pool, the same thing the pregnant woman who wanted a son to avenge her did, a baptism if you will in the always cold godswood pool where winter fell.
Regarding the pool, even though it's been said time and again that The Ice Dragon short story is not set in Westeros, I cannot help but think that it is. So I have a crazy tinfoil theory that the cold water pool by the Heart tree is the remnants of an ice dragon and the hot springs are what locks it in place... 👀
@@neriumsuitedher The World Book backs up your "crazy tinfoil theory": page 294, "The Shivering Sea" refers to the idea that ice dragons "melt when slain".
Anyone ever discuss these theories drunk with their friends? One of my favorite things a friend has ever said to me was "You've been talking about ASOIAF for 20 minutes straight and all I got was Catelyn is Satan and everyone's gonna die because the trees eat people."
Oh right, say no to alcohol kids! And an amazing video again guys, I love to have these theories playing in the background when I'm doing my makeup or cooking. Love you!
Lol i wish i knew others in rl who i could get drunk with and talk about these things!
Grrm gives mysterious responses when he doesn't want to give shit away. He's only human. I don't think he has the end story for every character he writes. So when he doesn't answer its because he himself doesn't know. He has set clever flag posts in his story but if he gives the way and we figure it all out..then that would diminish his"genius". He wants the respect for his ideas that was denied him from hollywood. I do hope he finishes. That would put all this into awesome pers perspective. Another awesome video👌
tulkas 42o GRRM has said he is a “gardener” style writer, so he wouldn’t have everyone’s storyline laid out
tulkas 42o he has finished the looks over the decades he just waiting till the show is over supply and demand we the fans can get enough of got smart bussiness moved
Peter Smith BS he’s just expanded the story so much and shows no signs of wrapping up that he won’t be releasing the WOW anytime soon
Yay, I broke up with the show a few weeks ago. It’s great to get back to the book.
If there were a book to speak of... It's only been 8 years
you need to watch S8E5 when it comes out in a couple days. I'm about 100% sure we will see both the maggy the frog and azor ahai prophecies fulfilled. A cast member has also said that S8E5 is the one show of the season you don't want to miss.
@Ex- Men what series wouldn't be a disaster if you stop half way through and don't finish it. but, stay on the poopoo bandwagon if you like.
Time will tell.
@@Vecha302
The maggy prophecy did succeed, with her crying and Jamie's hands around her neck, and she suffocated when the roof collapsed on them. "...And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you". We'll have to wait to see if Azor Ahai happens in S8E6. "about 100%" isn't actually 100%. haha. we all make mistakes. And I'm not at all regretful of making an educated guess. Do you contribute to the shows discussion?
It could be that sending Jon to the Wall was Ned's plan, and he utilized Ben to manipulate Jon.
It could also be that Ben chose the Wall out of guilt - he wasn't the first Stark to join the Night's Watch, after all. If Ben was sent, he may have felt he deserved to go after so many people died - we just don't know.
I also think that we know too little to say for sure whether Ben's behavior to Jon was truly cold, or if he had other reasons for being distant - we do not know what was going on in his head, what he knows, what he's planning, etc. He may have been distance simply because he felt guilty that Jon was giving his life to the Watch so young, and he had encouraged him.
Also, I doubt that Mormont would have made up his mind about Jon Snow becoming the next Lord Commander so quickly. Benjen could still have been the heir-apparent, and may have planned with Mormont not to have Jon join the rangers in order to protect him - Waymar Royce had a similar look to Jon, if I'm not mistaken, and that seems important somehow.
It's good to think outside the box when theorizing, and this may be one of the possibilities for Benjen's story, but there's too much that's not known to say for sure. I still enjoyed the video.
Ned was taken completely by surprise when Catelyn and Luwin blindsided him with it in Catelyns second chapter
Back to basics. Green hand keeps killing it.
Indeed, it seems that Jon was Benjen's only target during this trip at Winterfell. We don't have any evidence that he talked to his brother, or to the king, or anyone in the king's entourage. Just to Jon and Luwin. That being said, the real question then becomes: who sent Benjen? Was he there on his own accord, or was he sent for this "mission" by Mormont (i.e. by Mormont's raven, the true Lord Commander of the NW)?
Liked the video before started watching cuz this is going to be good
Always.
I loved this video. Your work is amazing. I know you guys are busy with live chats but I do enjoy these videos so much.
The theory makes perfect sense. I could see this being spot on. Picking up on the small details and spinning the narrative like you guys do helps me understand the levels of complexity to the story. You guys kill it.
thank you so much
Yo, the only videos keeping the game of throne fandom alive
The book paints a very different picture of Benjen than the GoT adaptation.
Ok so ive been rereading and thinking hard as usual and I've got some new ideas. I think Benjen is alive and is working with Bloodraven. This video originally planted the thought of the two of them working together in my head. He definitely manipulates Jon into joining the watch as bloodraven manipulates him once there. Then the best ranger in the watch just vanishes without a trace, very similar to bloodravens disappearance. Also, I think Benjen would have been able to recognize Mance at Winterfell, so he may be in on it as well. However the biggest thing that triggers me that Jon is a puppet is the way he found Ghost. Through all 5 books the constantly describe ghost as quiet, silent, and incapable or barking or howling.His fur is also pure white camouflaging him perfectly with the snow, so how the hell did Jon find him?
Oh sweet another video. I hope aside Benjen we get the rickon video as many fans forget abour these 2
I want part two NOW! Do not kept us waiting too long it.
Your videos inspired me to read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' series.Your content is wonderful.
thank you so much...there is no higher praise than when people tell us that our videos made them want to read George's wonderful books
Wasn't there a line where someone remembered how Ned and benjen would get drunk and talk about settling the gift ?
Excellent vid!! Thank you for putting the work & time you into it ♡
I love you guys!!!!! You articulate this stuff so well and voices compliment each other... Great work !!!
I so needed this right now.
Oh yes.
Its never long enough lol i always want it to keep going. Thank y'all for the hard work y'all put into your videos.
Have to get that music as my ringtone.
hahaha...we loved it when we heard it...we weren't even sure if it matched our channel, but when we heard it we couldn't convince ourselves to buy any song but that one
So many good hints that Bronn is Benjen; Cat said he has a wolfish smile, and he’s indulging in women and drink. Love this video
Cat would have recognized Bronn as Benjen. Tyrion would have too.
Wow now I have to rethink benjen stark now great video as always
This is a great video. As a reader you can get the impression that Benjen is mostly a good but harsh man of the Night's Watch, honoring vows ets. But this picture comes from Jon's point of view. So i love that analyse, showing more to Benjen, that we are let to belive he is.
I truly enjoy your channel and I appreciate the amount of research you put into your theories.
Well, Benjen should've been close to Lyanna, not only was she the only sibling around, she was also only a year older than him
Edit: If this is true Benjen is very good at plotting, I mean he went to Lewyn instead to Ned with the news of Jon's interest in joining the Night's Watch, maybe because he knew Ned wouldn't agree to the whole thing if it came from him, so he told Lewyn knowing the grey rat would tell Cat, and thought Cat had a better chance at convincing Ned because she was his wife, damn, and they say the Starks are not good at schemes and plotting
I'd say most people just say Ned was bad at plans and schemes 😂
Ah yes asoiaf a nice break from got
So welcome
You are most likely right about the animousity between Ned and Benjen. It struck me as odd that Benjen was not sitting at the high table himself. Jon may have been seen as a bastard, but Benjen was the true-born brother of the Lord of Winterfell.
Awesome video, I can't wait for part 2.
Finally! I've been waiting for this for a looong time. I can't wait for the show to end so we can go back to weekly book videos. Good work as always :D
Love your live stream but your theory videos are always so intriguing
Seems like there's a big difference between the books and show with the relationships. So many differences with most things.
Always coming at things from a different unique angle!! Can't wait to see the follow up 💚
Awsome timing. I can watch before work. My sweet clarity.
"A very quiet wolf."
I'm soooo glad to see a theory video of you guys again, in a time where everybody is talking about this crappy last season... and even about that the only thing i'm watching are the nigths watch lives (what a great team).... thank you, now, for 23 minutes i can be
truly immersed in george's world again
Thank you! I'd been waiting for a video from you.
Awesome video! I need the part 2 D:
Benjen and Ned NEVER speak with one another during Benjen's Winterfell visit. too strange
I was wondering if Benjen got sent to the wall because Cat gave Benjen as the name of the person who gossiped the name of Ashara Dayne as Jon's mother,and in that chapter Cat said how after Ned was told,no more gossiping about it was heard again. I figured Cat didn't want Benjen around to ever get in the way of Baby Robb's birthright.
Definitely in keeping with her character and her father's ambition.
Nice return to the books!
Thanks guys well done!
Thanks for the vid, Ser and Lady. I'll have to watch it later when I'm free from work.
This is a really interesting take and I never would have thought about it while reading the books
I really love this theory! It gives real depth to Benjen and his motivations and also ties nicely into your Rhaegar/Lyanna in Winterfell theory (and the common theme of pov characters being played and manipulated into acting against their own self-interest). I've been recently binge-watching your theories and I really have to say I love most of them. I didn't think it was possible for me to find completely new ideas and interpretations on a Song which I haven't encountered yet, so thank you for being true to your word. There is only one reoccurring theme within your interpretations I can't grapple with and that is the existence of gods. I already posted this thoughts in an old video by yours but I doubt you are still checking on videos that go more than a year back and I'd really love to hear your thoughts on this:
I don't know how much you two read of George besides Thrones, but how George deals with religion and gods is pretty consistent through his stories namely that he concentrates on religion in relation to human beings, how they shape their morals, beliefs and actions and the act of creating religion, which he considers a form of storytelling. Also one has to remember that George himself is an atheist who grew up Catholic but lost his faith when going to college.
He has a story called "A Way of Cross and Dragon" which is set in his Sci-Fi A Thousand Worlds universe. It's about an inquisitor for the Catholic Church, who himself has stopped believing his church''s own teaching a long time ago and encounters a newly founded and fastly growing religion worshiping Judas Iskariot. When he finds the founder of the religion this man reveals he himself is not pious at all and he has made up the story of Judas himself. He reveals to be part of a secret order called the "liars" (if I remember correctly) who appearantly have invented most of the great religions in the galaxy and are constantly inventing new religions with stories that are fitting for their respective times. They do this because they believe the universe in itself is meaningless and bleak, which is why the ultimate goal of humanity should be to seek happiness. These stories aka religion are made up by the liars to give people something to believe in and comfort them so they don't have to face to meaningless of life itself and can achieve happiness
My point here is that I find it completely unbelievable for George to give our story real gods. George R.R. Martin throughout his writings mostly presents religion with a negative connotation especially as an institution, which is used to conquer, make people compliant and to manipulate them but at the same time gives room for religion to give comfort on an individual level. Gods being essential factors within the story would go against everything George believes in and normally writes about. The story is about the human heart in conflict with itself not supernatural entities.
Furthermore, I can't believe the main plot to be simply a fight between the "evil" Great Other and the "good" Lord of the Light. R'hllor followers and priests are maybe the most extreme religious zealots within the story and it just wouldn't fit for their faith to be actually right and their followers to be the "good guys" of the story. While there is definitely a dichotomy between the Old Gods/The Great Other as ice and R'hllor/The Lord of the Light as fire I don't think one will be morally superior to the other especially as the poem by Robert Frost on which the name of the series is based on deals with the destruction of humanity both by ice and fire. Both can lead to death. In addition to this, naming the White Walkers the Great "Others" makes me think of the anthropological concept of the other, which says that human societies while forming an identity, an "us" simultaneously always create a "them", an "other" from which they want to distance themselves from. It would be typical George for the Great Other to not be inherently evil at all, but simply different. And who is the "other" of human society within Westeros but the children of the forrests?
So my question is what makes you think gods exist and play a role in the story?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and keep up with what you're doing!
You guys are the absolute best. My only problem is that I have to wait for the next part ☺️
Finally! Been missing these! 😍
I like it.... Another fantastic theory...
You guys are part of the reason why I started reading the books... Awesome job yet again...
Great video. It never struck me, until you pointed it out, that Benjen was dressed an awful lot like Waymar Royce. It can't be coincidence. I am less clear why he would lure Jon to the Wall and then desert and leave Jon to fend for himself...
"It should've been you". I don't think even Tywin would say that to Tyrion.
Outlaw Of Gor You’re right!!!! He would of probably just arranged a gang Rape of sorts........ definitely wouldn’t say those cruel words
Uhh yes he would. If he could have had Tyrion die instead of Joanna, do you think he'd have had a second thought?
He'd say it. He'd just make a whole speech out of it😂💯
It was cold no doubt.
But come on. We are talking about Tywin Lannister here. He would most certainly say something that cold to Tyrion on just about any given Sunday.
@@zacharyriley4122 any day that ends with Y. 💯😂
Awesome video.
I love these parts, that seems so insignificant to the storyline, but actually might be the main story line.
Could benjen be disguised as a different character in later books? Sort of like Arthur Dayne disguised as Mance Rayder?
I thought to myself Bronn fit the description, and age then I thought about it a second time and realized Catelyn met Bronn and Benjen that makes no sense. But I think you're on to something.
Are you suggesting Benjen broke his vows?
Your videos are at another level than other fan sites.
Awesome, can’t wait for part 2!
I love your videos and even though other people shout your theories down I want your reading of things to be true. thanks for an insightful and thought provoking video.
Omg, the relief 🙄🙈 i needed that... keep going guys... 💋
Can't remember who suggested me this channel...but now, more than ever I'm in need of some true love for this world.
Season 8 is underwhelming to say the least...and I'm afraid that's the only finale I've ever get after more than 20 years waiting.
Great and interesting video!
hint of laughter in the eyes, i believe, was also mentioned with littlefinger
"Bastards grow up faster than other children."
Wise words from Maester Luwin? Or is a grey rat trying to cover up the truth that Jon is older than Robb?
Sorry if you mention it further along in the video. I'm at 5:47 and wanted to mention it before I forgot.
Can’t wait for part 2!
I can't wait for STANNIS PART 2
Yay! I get so excited for your videos!
I woke up this morning thinking how much I missed everyone’s book theories with all the show nonsense going on ❤️ Green Hand always delivers!
we do what we can My Lady
Heard another theory similar to this one, but instead they stated that he felt guilty after the war caused because he knew about his sister (and possibly if she was the laughing tree knight). Since they were probably very close siblings, he kept her secret, and by the time he heard word about the war it was too late and took the black out of guilt.
Greetings from a listener in Germany. Keep up the good work.
The uncomfortable position of having to answer to his nephew for the rest of his life? You mean like every other uncle of lordlings in the entire story? Not to use this as evidence against your concepts, but the circumstances you describe are incredibly common in Westeros due to Agnatic Primogeniture succession.
Awsome....perfect to listen to on The drive home. Thanks
You two are true MASTERS when it comes to crafting incredibly interesting and original ASOIAF theories. I mean i knew that Catelyn Tully was trash when i first read the books but once i started watching your videos i actually began to despise her character and I like Roose Bolton way more now, for obvious reasons. This video was a very pleasant surprise, i never thought that Benjen actually hated Jon, but after watching this video all i can say is... Jon never had a chance, Ned failed him when you think about it.
it seems entirely possible that Ned was completely blindsided...he didn't see the Jon going to the Wall thing coming at all...when Luwin brought it up in AGOT Catelyn II, Ned was literally shocked
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Poor Ned. Everyone was against him.
Great video. Also, didn’t GRRM rule out Benjen being “Coldhands” when asked about it? That would also lend credence to the theory.
His editor asked him, and he said no. Also, Bran would have recognized him.
This was amazing OMG I love this theories against mainstream r/asoiaf meta.
You two are brilliant!
One of your best videos
Great job
Brilliant! All Benjen was missing was Waymar's sable cloak! Can't wait for the next one.
Theories be off the charts they make me think greatly
You’ve stated in previous videos : “... you probably think we’re crazy ... “ (which is true - for about ten minutes) BUT, ;) I find myself agreeing with most of your theories. And they’re all delicious food for thought. So happy to see you’re back on book theory videos !
I love listening to you two. So informative and just really entertaining 💖
Keep up the great work
Yay! Uncle Coldhands!! I love this video and I know in the books Benjen is not Coldhands but I still want to know what happened to the character in the show as well as the books. BUT I love getting back to theory videos on the book material, THANK YOU! :-)
Hmmm, I have another idea on why he Benjen pretends to not know what being a bastard means. It's out of character, so the writer can set the rules for his world to the reader as clear as he can. That this separation of Jon and the others usually doesn't happen. That Catelyn doesn't like Jon but Ned is completely okay with him.
I also think Benjen never spoke to the maester and never wanted Jon to come to the wall. Jon sent to the wall is purely the maester's doing. This falls in line with the theory that the maester used to be at Riverrun. He is loyal to Catelyn, not Ned. She wanted Jon gone.
Benjen really didn't wan't Jon to come along right from the start. Jon probably reminds of Ned and why he was sent to the wall.
"The moron playing the high harp". Clearly you slipped in some "Why Rhaeger and Lyanna suck" into this video, and I love it.
I'm glad book theories are back, can't wait for the show to be over to have more of this.
Have you read Joe Magician theory that Benjen may have been kidnap by the WW thinking he was Jon? is a good theory as well.
Just seems odd to leave this information out for 4 straight books and counting
Okay but Ben Jens oaths ‘separate’ him from his family. He can’t treat Jon as a nephew without treating him better than other recruits. Who steps up for them to help them adjust? Nobody, until Jon did apparently.
Ben wasn’t responsible for the trainees, he was being what he thought would make an effective role model, not a mentor and not an Uncle. He only gets to be an Uncle on the occasions when he gets sent to Winterfell, like a brief holiday from being a Nights Watch man. Jon saw his uncle with his ‘work face’ on and felt shunned, which isn’t an unreasonable reaction for Jon to have.
Another awesome vid! I love that you're continuing with the book research instead of making clickbaity vids about the atrocity that HBO puts out each week
we considered making a video in defense of Dany this week, but we already had this one almost done, and making show videos makes us a little sick...that's why we decided to just to livestreams about the show...we go on camera, speak our minds, and are done with it, instead of having to research other episodes and tie things together that we don't particularly care about...we're all about the books
Your streams during the week are like therapy for me LMAO. You two along with Mike and Jon are great! Unfortunately I work graveyard shift so I usually don't catch them live but I haven't missed one yet. Thanks to you all for the weekly catharsis
those two are really fun to stream with...we need to figure out how to get them done a little faster though...I think our last one was over 4 hours
I can only speak for myself but the length doesn't bother me one bit