Two more pieces of this puzzle though. The ex-boyfriend police officer was later thrown out of the force after serious harassment complains, in another town. Cindy’s body was found hogtied in a place that had been previously searched. No needles nor any drugs / paraphernalia were ever found, on her nor in her car. The car was deemed too far from the body for her to have walked the distance unseen. There are plenty more details in this case, some in favor of mental illness, some making it impossible for her to have acted alone. I’ve heard this case covered several times and still don’t know what to think.
Let for sake of argument say she was telling the truth, then over the years it would cause mental health problem, it would of driven anybody to madness.
I don’t know Dr. Grande.. I can tell you I was stalked for years, by annex boyfriend… he turned off the electricity underneath the house, he broke out lightbulbs, unscrewed the Lugnuts on my jeep sugar in my boat, stole my shoes, my keys, my cat.. and the list goes on…. The only time I was believed, as when there was a witness who caught him in the act, and that finally happened one day.….. but until then the authorities never consider this to be a fact…. So I really have to be careful when I judge people who say they have been stalked……
I 100% believe Cindy and you. I've been through something similar. I broke up with a guy like 10 years ago and he still to this day bribes people to follow me around, harassing me with methods that would make you seem crazy if you report it, have an active smear campaign where I work. He actually has some of them following me around work constantly reporting where I'm at and if I am using a phone, ect. this enables him to safely have someone else go through my personal property outside of work while knowing I wouldn't return back home from work suddenly. To some people Cindy's experience and mine are just too much to be believable but it certainly is if the person behind it has a lot of money / connections. A lot of people didn't believe any of this was actually happening until a guy started working where I was at the time and on break he was bragging to some other coworkers that he was being paid to follow me around from someone in my past. Also, this phone has been hacked, it was since the day I got it since he had someone follow me into the store and stand near me reporting everything as it was being activated.
@@mrpussinboots4252 probably she was told to seek professional help so why do you have to twist the knife? She may or may not be stalked. Why not let her vent here without putting her down?? It is her life after all that doesn't affect your. People, be more sympathetic. Either case sympathy might help her instead hurting someone that is already hurt. There's no heroism in hurting a fallen human being.
She hogtied her own hands and feet behind her back? Neighbours heard someone in her house and a man was seen several times. Roy Makepeace got messages threatening her. Who exactly was it that was seen and exactly who left the messages. I’ve had a stalker. The police didn’t take it seriously at all. They refused to come and collect evidence when it was there. They refused to listen at all. What finally put a stop to it was that I moved and my apartment and car were in someone else’s name and I had an unlisted number. I’m sure she had mental health issues by the end of this if she was indeed being stalked.
It's actually much easier than you think to tie yourself up. It's been demonstrated on television many times. There are books that teach you all the knots you need to know to tie yourself up in just about any fashion. The preponderance of evidence (or lack thereof) is the issue here. If you tell the cops hundreds and hundreds of times, that somebody is standing outside your window at night, and they investigate hundreds and hundreds of times, but never find footprints, cigarette butts, broken branches, or anything at all, then the odds that somebody is really there become infinitesimally small. You're also assuming that anybody supposedly spotted, wherever, wasn't just some rando, or even just a matter of mistaken identity (Dr. Grande touched on this, if you listened), both of which are statistically much more likely than an actual stalker that did this anonymously for decades. Likewise, the phone calls. You have to believe they are real in the first place, so your point is largely suppositional. But it was the 'eighties. You know what we did as kids when we were bored in the 'eighties? We made prank phone calls. Again, statistically more likely than a decades-long anonymous stalker who is never discovered by anybody, and for whom there is otherwise no evidence. I've known people like Cindy. (I actually knew somebody like Cindy who was named Cindy, coincidentally). This happens. This behavior is real. It's scary to see.
i second that. the messages to roy's answer phone sound like a women hiding her voice. although some have speculated that roy's ex wife could have been behind it as i think he left her for cindy
@@Vexarax exactly right, it does not add up. No way could she drive herself to an abandoned house, ingest that amount of drugs and then be able to tie herself up. She would be too high or likely dead before she would be able to tie herself.
The only reason the police helped me when I was being stalked was bc it was occurring primarily on a college campus and campus police take any incident like that way more seriously…
I once had a stalker about 11 years ago who did some really creepy af shyte, but nowhere on the scale of this Cincdy case. My stalker entered my home a few times and moved things around, and obviously took some rather insignificant items that he knew would be noticed since they were routine daily use items such as bar soap in the shower, finger nail clipper, a certain brush. The toilet paper rolls would be removed from the springing roller holder and placed on the vanity, and a few other weird things. The most disturbing thing he did was take some folded clothing I no longer wore from my basement laundry folding table, brought them upstairs into the living room and placed them across the coffee table with a few clothing items on the floor neatly folded. He was able to enter the house by picking the lock on the side door to the attached garage. creepy af.
I also had a stalker as a child who would video tape me on one of those old school handheld recorders, in my window. Every time that I actually noticed, I would scream and my dad would run outside and he would be gone. My dad said I was paranoid. Until winter. There was snow outside and there was clearly multiple sets of mens shoes directly to my window and then back around the pond that was directly behind our house. Back and forth back and forth. My dad called the police. They took a report and nothing happened. Then, he broke into my room about 3 times. He would just be standing there, and as soon as I saw him he would get down and crawl back out my window. One night, I rolled over and he was standing in the middle of my room staring at me. I still remember that fear, I have never felt it since then again in my life. I couldn’t even scream or yell I just froze and stared at him and I silently cried, my mouth was open and I wanted to scream but nothing came out. And then he again, just crawled out my window. I told my dad that he was coming in my room, my dad said, I think you’re just scared because the pervert keeps trying to record you, so your mind is playing games with you. Don’t worry to much, he’s probably just some loser with a video camera. Then he broke into my room for the final time, when I getting up to go to school, I was in 5th grade. My alarm on my night stand went off a couple times I kept pressing snooze and rolling back over. I was half asleep. And it was the middle of winter, I noticed the curtain blowing. It didn’t click in my head immediately. My bed was directly in front of the window with my feet facing half of the window. And then, he grabbed my feet HARD and tried to drag me out of the window. I screamed and screamed for my little brother (not sure why? It’s just the first thing that came out my mouth.) my little brother was younger than me. But he came in my room and starting throwing things towards to window and I was holding onto my headboard. My dad ran into my room as soon as he let go of me and ran off. My dad didn’t see him but at least my brother did. I wasnt ‘crazy’ anymore. After that, I WALKED TO SCHOOL BY MYSELF IN THE DARK. I didn’t think anything of it at first, after i calmed down, but once I got in the distance form my house, I started hysterically crying and I was terrified. My dad filed a report while I was at school. A couple days later, the police came back to my house to ask me to make a statement and pick him out. They showed me a bunch of pictures and it took me awhile. I couldnt tell honestly. I had seen his face so many times, but everytime I was so terrified, that it just didn’t stay in my memory. But they eventually arrested him he had almost a HUNDRED videos of me. Most of them when I was changing clothes for school, into pajamas, or sleeping. Obviously I never saw them, but the police told my dad this and said that once the trial was over they videos would be destroyed. They also checked the make sure that I wasn’t on any ‘websites.’ He stalked me for years and I only realized like the last 6 months. I still can’t believe he didn’t kidnap me. I later found out he was a s. Offender and had a record for kidnap and assault of a girl younger than me. My point is, no one believed me. In fact, when I insisted people got pissed off. Even after they realized that someone was recording me, they said I was overreacting when it turns out I was actually majorly unaware how bad it actually was. I don’t know that I believe this case about Cindy 100% but I feel like maybe she was getting stalked originally, and she felt like no one believed her so she embellished more stalking behavior to get someone to take her seriously.
I don’t know if she did it herself or not but if she really had a stalker doing this to her can you imagine the horror of going through this and then having to go through people accusing you of not only making it up but then having you committed? It would be enough to actually drive you crazy.
@@1Roamingwolf I don't believe we said that. Amanda and I were speaking about the experience itself which could happen to any gender. You brought up women. Which makes me think you have a problem with females.
Yeah, I'm sure she was really just HORRIFIED out of concern for her own safety. That was probably the driving motivation behind her 3AM dog walks by herself. Give me a fucking break.
This case disturbs me & always has……I’m a nurse myself & it interests me that she was working in a clinical setting effectively (?) during this time - I feel we don’t have the whole truth of this case & probably never will 😞 so sad
I suffered a stalker for about 1 1/2 years. It was terrifyingly grippling. I got superstressed, could not sleep, feared for my child 24/7, never left the house w o my Rhodesian Ridgeback guard dog😖😖 Stalking is usually not seen as a priority by the police n few who has suffered it fathoms how paralyzing it is.
Well SOMEBODY was killing cats & harming dogs and that's effed up. Sounds like the lady was a Munchausen but with stalking. This case has always intrigued me so thanks for covering it. P.S. I found it hilarious that her boyfriend moved out of the house but kept dating her lol. He was like "nope, this place is not safe for me (but my gf can deal with it)." Nice guy.
' Variation on Munchausen's Syndrome/Factitious Disorder with the animals being the 'by proxy' bit ( directed towards law enforcement rather than doctors) was my first thought too... maybe in conjunction with Schizotypal Personality Disorder? Perhaps some Borderline Personality traits too? People can be complicated!
Whether she caused all these things herself or there was actually someone terrorizing her she lived a harrowing last few years. What a terrible ending to her life.
She became a lot less costly to her community and her [personal] torment was over. She was committing crimes by making things up, perjuring others too, even if she didn't know she was fabricating them. This story has a less than terrible ending in my opinion
@@1xoACEox1 exactly, it takes at least some degree of awareness of your actions to fake being a stalking victim. They’re acting like she was Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and unaware of what the other was doing. That’s not typically how this stuff works. The whole motive would have been some form of attention seeking, she wouldn’t have perpetuated it for so long if she wasn’t getting something out of it so the idea that she was terrorizing herself is kind of absurd imo.
I must have missed that part but that's a huge red flag. I think with people in general it's important to not really listen to what they say but to watch what they do. I think you can get very good at spotting lying that way. I remember in college there was a girl who was essentially hysterical about "I'm afraid of going out because men might murder me" then no joke maybe 3 weeks later I was walking in campus with some friends after the bar and she was so drunk she was sleeping on the sidewalk outside her dorm lol pretty brazen if you're afraid you'll get murdered when you're sober.
@@Aaron-kj8dv men take advantage of wo.en any chance they get. If she was an alcoholic, and men attacked her in the past while she was unable to defend herself, she might have trauma from that, a drinking problem to cope, AND a very real fear that a man might attack her anytime she's drinks to cope. I see many ignorant sociopaths in the comments, callus towards women being murdered and assaulted.
@@cramp4221 Thank you for your comment! It added nothing of value unless you consider vague blanket statements about half the population enriching.. The pure speculation on behalf of the woman being an alcoholic bc she was assaulted by MEN™was really cute bc it reminded me of the thought process a small child goes through when dealing with a learning disability. Thank you for that behind the scenes look at how your brain processes and rationalizes information. I would recommend paying better attention to the way Dr. Grande analyzes the reality of a situation while being mindful of his biases and keeping them in check. Good day.
The psychologist who did her sessions when she was committed said she had a lot of rage toward her father and was very likely abused by him as a child.
I was thinking the same thing. He was sexually abusing her and that was the reason she didn't go to Europe with them. I saw him on TV and he appeared very detached as if he was not talking about his daughter.
Thank you for covering this case. I have heard so many reputable clinicians address this case. It really is a mystery. And a tragedy regardless of what actually happened. As always, I am grateful for your thoroughness, compassion, and appropriate humor when needed.
I have listened to Dr. Grande for years and thoroughly enjoyed the videos and dry sense of humor, but he is off on this episode. I am disappointed as it appears the case has been under researched. Cindy James was surrounded by very dangerous people and any of them had a motive to harm and terrorize her. The police officer who lived with her - he later was imprisoned for sexually assaulting 2 women (one who stated he told her she reminded him of Cindy). Another was Dr. Makepeace's best friend Dr. Tyhurst - he did own a cabin and a former patient of his claimed he held her captive there. As well, a total of 3 women gave evidence in a criminal trial that Dr. Tyhurst beat and whipped them and forced them to sign "contracts" that they were his slaves. The Canadian criminal appellate court reversed his criminal convictions (though he still spent years in prison during the appeal) - but he paid his victims millions of dollars. Cindy and Makepeace went on trips with Dr. Tyhurst - Did she see something she shouldn’t have? Were they doing the same to her? Just being surrounded by such terrifying people who thought they were above the law (and I include her ex-husband in this) - would drive an already vulnerable person to paranoia. Let's not mock Cindy further.
And her father was believed to abuse her as a child even sexually. She was generally a very abused person and all this abuse can take a toll on you. Makepeace even admitted to hitting her a couple of times…. Even if she didn’t have a stalker who can really blame her for all the feelings she felt.
Interesting case. Too bad there were no doorbell cameras back then, it would have saved police a lot of time and effort. It may even have helped Cindy in the long run.
It would not matter. I had trail cams. Multiple police reports resulted in absolutely nothing. The cops would not follow up with the man stalking me, despite the protection order. This went on for years.
Would it? They dont help now, why would they back then? I literally just saw a video of a random unarmed man getting shot by mistake by a SWAT unit, completely innocent man, and despite the video he was charged by the police anyway to cover it up, and the police chief refuses to answer any questions and says they will put more charges. Police dosnt care, they didnt care back then ether, their main job is to enforce the state rules, not to solve crimes, its called law enforcement not citizen help for a reason. Maybe im being a pessimist, but if they recorded on video someone who wasnt Cindy break the windows and set the fires they would just say "we cant find him", the same way they said they cant track the phone calls they recorded.
@@googleslocik Simplistic and naive pop culture. So, basically we don't need the police, because in every UA-cam video we ever see, they are only murdering unarmed citizens. Yeah, not sure I'm buying that.
People with this kind of problems can often be highly functional at work or among friends and family. On the inside there is a different story and their inner "demons" comes boiling up when they are alone. Just look at BTK or the Canadian Airforce officer. I have met a few woman that was totally normal on the outside but bat shit crazy on the inside.
Its the same with my cousin my dad and i live with. As of recently they have her on 5 different types of anti-psychotics and she has been losing her freaking mind. She's not even herself anymore but the moment you say anything about her like that she flips out and tells you that she's changed, she's not a nice person anymore and if we don't like it when we can kiss her a$* and get the hell out of her house. I can go on and on for days on all of the abuse we have to go through in order to not be homeless. On the bright side, I'm working my butt off to save up money, I'm a full time college student so I will be receiving my financial aid here very soon and as soon as I do that I will be putting in applications to get us out of this phychward. She is an up and down roller coaster where you never know if one minute shes happy and laughing, the next she's telling you Fu*K yoOoOoUuUu and the ONLY reason she's able to keep her job is because she has two children that are 13 who are autistic and she works for IHSS. On the other hand she is the most neglectful parent I've ever met. Those kids spend their entire lives on the computer and only get up for food, water and to use the toilet. She spends no time with them at all and they are receiving no socialization as she told me to stop hanging out with them because it makes their dad jealous. But to everyone else they think she's just fine. She also lies about my dad and I to everyone and talks to much crap that everyone thinks were the bad ones who are always in the wrong. This woman needs constant drama to survive in her day to day life or else i think she would have a mental breakdown and die.
There's plenty of full-blown addicts who maintain sometimes very successful careers, at least for a couple decades. Also, it was different times. I'm a millenial. When I was just out of high school, working a few years before I went to uni, I spent time in some factories, brickyards, etc. Coming from a middle-class suburban family in Toronto, I was shocked to discover that there were a fare number of older guys around/past average retirement age (baby boomers) who couldn't read or write. Yet they had big houses, usually a second vacation home/cottage, multiple cars, etc. Now, at least in Toronto, you can have Masters and might end up in Starbucks on minimum wage. So, back then, there was clearly different standard as to whether people got employed or not.
I fully believe she did it all. I think people were swayed by her beauty, and therefore inclined to believe her. I listened to another very detailed compelling podcast about the case, and as Dr.Grande pointed out- it would have been impossible for such a prolific stalker to exist without a shred of physical evidence of his existence. Thanks for sticking to the facts and presenting all the logic involved in your analysis.
Dreading? (Just a guess) I don't have strong feelings on either side but I've heard a few compelling arguments that its entirely possible a REAL stalker or predator might have had knowledge about her propensity for crying wolf and took advantage of the fact that her case would be less likely to be greeted with immediate seriousness (again because of her history of false claims) and he may have used said information of the alleged "stalker's" calling card or trademarks when conducting the act itself so that it would be seen as even just a possibility that she had tried to stage it herself and it went horribly wrong. Again I'm open to having my mind changed but after the Sherri Papini case I'm no longer unreceptive to the idea that someone could be THAT committed to a false story
@@jamesa.romano8500 there have been cases of narcissistic personalities who killed themselves as a way of "legend building." I'm reminded of a psycho (I think he was a murderer, but I'm having a hard time verifying/remembering this right now)... as the justice system was closing in, he told everyone that he had a terminal illness, then committed suicide. It was kind of a bummer because when he killed himself, it was as though he had escaped justice... A forensic psychiatrist later discovered that he had no terminal disease at all. He had made it up. Apparently the guy's family didn't even know he had faked his illness, they took it to be true. The forensic psychiatrist then found the psycho came from a family where several generations of men- all outlaw types- had killed themselves in acts of defiance, and these suicides were glorified in local outlaw lore. So, just to say, it's not totally unknown for people to kill themselves, either intentionally or accidentally, due to some pretty outlandish motives.
I've been stalked. I received no validation so I resent people like you discounting it. I put up cameras and got recorded proof, but police didn't care. They would reluctantly generate reports after I talked to the chief, but nothing was done to the man, even though I had a protection order. This went on for years.
Neighbor saw a strange man outside, bf catches the ex (a psychiatrist?) outside her house, but people think she did it herself.. how do you hogtie yourself after an OD but there's no meds anywhere? I honestly think the ex wanted to drive her catshit crazy and he succeeded..
He usually had an alibi. But he was also just as concerned about her and tried to help. You should look up how to tie yourself up. Not only is it possible but its been around for decades. Only now you can google it!
@Tessa Ducek so how did she administer the drugs to herself, get them completely away from the scene and THEN tie herself up? By the time she got rid of the evidence the drugs would've been taking effect.. you can Google it but how well can you do it with all that pumping thru your system?
@@salravioliCindy was in charge of her ward at the hospital She was directed of Blenheim house before that People who are nuts do not hold down these positions and are not populate in the workplace
I know this was a highly requested subject over the past few years and so happy you got to it. One of the strangest and creepiest cases I have ever read about.
Just an addition: her birth name was Cynthia Elizabeth Hack. 'James' was an assumed surname because she was encouraged to change her legal name due to the stalking.
I have been accused by several psychiatrists of faking my illness (at the same time, several said I was mentally coping well with a severe illness). I now know that it was in fact a severe illness (MCAS, EDS, POTS). There is nothing more frustrating than not being believed, so my personal bias is strongly in Cindy’s favour. She wasn’t getting attention when she kept having story after story, she was being accused of wasting police’s time, lost many friends, moved several times, wasn’t able to have a good partner, and got diminishing attention from it. Why would she have continued? What would be her motivation? If she was doing it for attention it would have shifted over time, the stories would have changed over years of telling. She would have come up with better stories that would have garnered more attention. Nobody fakes the same thing over and over again- people get bored with it. There wouldn’t have been a gradual escalation pattern like this had. There’s plenty of reasons that a stalker would do weird things like unscrew a lightbulb, set a little fire, break a window. Fear, power and control. Which is also why she refused to change her life- she refused to let him control her. That probably made him madder and madder. He didn’t want to kill her, he wanted to control her. But he couldn’t, so he ended up killing her.
A similar thing happened to me as well. Doctors accused me of attention seeking or trying to get meds. Turned out to be a rare spinal disease, and now I'm half paralyzed
@@anusthing Oh no! I’m actually battling a spinal infection right now, two vertebrae have started fracturing, T9, T10, but they’re still stable 🤞 If they’d figured you out sooner, would it have made a difference?
Oh I know... EDS symptoms are so weird and come and go with flare ups. Its frustrating that doctors always brush off chronic pain from it to being attention seeking or whatever.
While most of this could have been the woman fabricating/imagining things, how about the neighbors seeing "strange" men lingering and what not. The one traced call going to a third party, etc. A tiny shred of credibility, as most of the incidents can probably be deduced to be her own actions.
I am middle aged, but in the mid to late 80’s I started to receive obscene phone calls (pre caller ID). They continued and the caller would describe clothes that I had been wearing. I called the police and they told me to change my number to an unlisted one, I did. The calls continued and became more threatening. I called the cops again after changing my number a second time. The feds became involved and began tracing the incoming calls. The man that was caught worked in a furniture store, that I had bought furniture from and I was making monthly payments by check. I would sometimes drop the check off in person and my phone number was always added to the check. He was arrested. Turns out he was married and had a new baby at home. The police acted quickly and solved the problem easily. I know that video was not as prevalent in the 80s, but it did exist. Why did they not send a car to sit outside her house and why did the cop move out? I am not saying it did not happen, but it happened to me and was resolved fairly quickly.
Dr grande. Please consider doing an episode on the teacher in the pocono mountains in Pennsylvania who framed another teacher for stalking and harassing her simply to gain sympathy and attention. A very bizarre case
@@easttowest5984 forensic files was shot right in Allentown PA and had a number of episodes of local interest. Allentown is south of the pocono mountains in eastern Pennsylvania
@@wendiwonderly1419 Right, I remember the names if we are speaking of the same case. Joanne Chambers and Paula Norocki ( I have no clue how to spell the name)
I’m guessing her stalker was a cop or someone in authority over cops and they tried to make it look like she was staging it all. The assertion her death was a suicide is ludicrous.
So glad to see Dr. Grande finally cover this fascinating case! One thing that isn't mentioned in the video is that the threatening message left on Makepeace's answering machine is available to hear, and it sounds to have been made by a woman.
It’s amazing the things people do and say for attention. At the same time I feel bad for her, she definitely needed a lot of help. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Dr. Grande.❤
The police dropped the ball on this case. They should have set up security cameras inside and outside the house. That way they would have seen the stalker or discovered that Cindy was lying. I'm not 100% sure, but I think she was really being stalked, and that affected her mental health (because, duh). I also think that might have led her to fabricate some of the incidents- since the police weren't taking her seriously, maybe she "added" some incidents so that they'd believe her.
The police spent millions of dollars investigating. I think you are saying they dropped the ball because they didn't arrive at an outcome you would prefer. I think they arrived at the correct outcome: she was not being stalked. Your scenario is way more complicated. Likely, the simplest answer is correct. Cindy was suffering from mental illness.
The alarming part of this story is that she was actually hired to work as a nurse in the health care industry. She could have done a lot of damage. Imagine having her in charge of your IVs and medications. The second most concerning thing is her treatment of animals. There was evidence that her dog was mistreated and a dead cat was found in her home. The woman was certifiably insane. I'm just glad no one else other than the poor cat had to pay the ultimate price. The money and time that was spent on her insanity was unreal.
Was she "certifiably insane?" In the UK, and I presume also in Canada, to be detained on account of mental illness you have to pose a risk your own health or safety or that of other people due to mental disorder. Harming or killing animals does not count. There are thousands of people who cut themselves or take overdoses, and they do not get locked up these days. To be detained in hospital she would need to have done something more serious: but then, we know she WAS detained once. Usually you need to seem mentally disordered between episodes of self-harm to be detained for treatment, and some jurisdictions prefer the disorder to be treatable: mental health professionals often label those they can't/don't want to treat as having a personality disorder.
this kinda reminds me of the case of denise huskins ... I saw it on that chapter i shook my head the entire time saying "the kidnapped victim is fabricating everything" but at the end..she was telling the truth...but it was so insane and dramatic...i was sure it was a hoax
Because why would you break in and attack someone and leave a note saying you are trying to kill someone, yet leave them alive with a note pinned to them in a way that is guaranteed not to be terminal? It requires the most masterful yet also incompetent supervillain, or just a mentally Ill woman who is a threat to herself. Either way it’s very sad.
Because everytime the police would watch the house and tap the phone lines there would be nothing as soon as they took it off it would happen again. He broke into her house on several occasions yet never left any physical evidence. And when the fire was set there was no sign of intrusion and cindy was fully clothed when asked why she answered Oh I was out walking the dog . A woman constantly assaulted by a stalker who’s calls the police hundreds of times and who has friends sleeping over because she is so afraid. Yet she walks a dog a 3 am all by herself………. Doesn’t sound right And a security expert installed a panic button that would alert authorities if there was an emergency immediately, at all 3 days paces she lived during the time yet during an attack it was always disconnected When you look at that even the most hardcore believer would raise an eyebrow
The part about her first husband is very strange. I don’t think that has anything to do with the stalker but it sounds like losing her husband to suicide could’ve traumatized her. I think it’s very eerie that her whole family didn’t even know who her first husband was. Maybe it’s possible he never existed and she also made that up.
I had a very good friend who was a pathological liar and I don't know to this day why but she made up entire relationships and people who died in her life it was very detailed and her emotions seemed very real and none of it was reality
But who made the calls, send notes and broke stuff while she was with other people? Someone kept calling her at work for years and this was witnessed by dozens of people. Police answered multiple of those calls but failed to track them down. Multiple police officers witnessed those things. The answer "she paid someone to keep doing it so it dosnt count" is laughable and idiotic. Clearly other people were involved, and then it isnt just "all in her head". Dr. Todd one day covers cases of stalkers and serial killers that fallow their victims for decades, and here in another video says its unlikely? Come one, a 10 year long stalking ending in murder is the least weird story this channel covered.
It seems that her parents moving to France and her staying behind could have been the start of her feelings of loneliness and abandonment? It also seems that her first boyfriend did not actually exist?
Never heard of this but true or false - the incidence of stalking should never be dismissed or underestimated. A stalker is a sad, deranged individual who has invented a life for him/herself where he/she has significance in the life of the object of his attentions, and they can go on for years. They become nasty and unhinged when their delusions are exposed. This is a way of life for them, a way of enduring their own lives by way of a parasitic clinging to another's life, wherein they believe they are somehow involved. I agree there is so much more stalking goes on than we think, as, for their world (as they know it ) to exist the truth cannot be discovered. Whatever sad circumstances have led to this cannot be fathomed, however the violation of others privacy and human rights cannot be justified.
This is one of the most fascinating cases. I have heard a lot of different people cover it but this video is by far the most informative. Great job, Dr. Grande 💜💐🌈🖖
She did it all. I honestly don't even know how people argue there was an actual stalker as besides a few sentences in the case file(that could easily be taken out of context) there is no evidence he existed. Every professional that came into contact with this case came to the conclusion she was making it up.
I think this case needs more investigating! Who was killing all the animals? Imagine having all those things done to you, would it eventually give you PTSD? What could she do?
Sadly Cindy tried very hard to blame her ex husband first until it was proven without a doubt that he was not present (as in not in the country) and many other facts that excluded him from the “stalking.” She then tried to blame other men in her life. The attacks and “injections” and petty arsons and nylons around her neck and amnesia are foreshadowing of how she ended her life. She needed serious help. A SERIES of “fake police officers” rings alarm bells as a form of mental illness. The “stalker” (in a pre internet age as well) seemed to have absolutely god-like power over Cindy as in her “unlisted” number was constantly discovered by her stalker, her new name, her living arrangements were always discovered, her work places even though no one ever saw any man- over many years. She reported constant break ins and talked constantly to the police, which seems very desperate, sadly. She needed help desperately but it wasn’t because there was an all-powerful stalker. There have been many cases of people doing things to themselves sadly (as in writing dozens of letters from a “stalker” over many years) and people who have done any bdsm have said the way she was tied - which was loose by bdsm standards - was easy to do herself. Also, the stalker then gave her morphine and hog tied her but didn’t SA her? Why? Why if he was so murderous did he give her a pain relieving drug? To me, and given her nursing background, the morphine suggests she was hoping to be found before dying. Sorry.
Stalking happens far more often than people realise. even though Cindy fabricated evidence and her story implausible, it's important not to be dismissive when people claim to be victims of stalking, as it can have dangerous consequences. It's a shame nobody was able to help her.
When I heard this story, it totally reminded me of when people are "gang stalked". This happens a lot more often than people realize, but most people don't really know about this type of stalking. As a result they tend to dismiss it & think the person who is being gang stalked is just making things up or crazy... :(
I'll be blunt: it's absolutely incredible to me that there are people who are so gullible as to believe her story. I work in a field in which you get pretty good at spotting B.S... so when I hear a story like this, or like Jussie Smollett's, it kind of blows my mind that anyone could possibly buy into it.
I think sometime like the Jussie Smollet case people WANT to believe it's real so much that they ignore evidence to the contrary. Probably the same in this case, it's so interesting if it is real and who knows? Maybe the cops know it's BS but they have to do their due diligence anyway.
Was looking for a video on this case,... Most annoyed me for some reason.... The last one was a whispered ASMR which was just beyond creepy!!! Whispering about a murder case is just too weird. But then... HELLO!! Dr Grande.... Sometime who can make some real sense of this case. Here i stay 😊.
I believe Cindy was stalked, likely by an ex- the most dangerous subtype of stalker. The cognitive dissonance required to ignore the physical facts of her death is just too much. People would rather call a woman crazy than admit that a man could be that evil. In His Sights by Kate Brennan is a good firsthand account of what an obsessive individual with a lot of money and connections can do when a relationship ends.
I agree with Dr Grande’s analysis 100%. The only thing I have questions about is CJ’s death. Did she mean to kill herself or was it accidental OD? Perhaps she wanted the doctors and police to find drugs in her system, but she took more than her body could handle so she died accidentally? Or perhaps she really did want to die?
Is it possible she somehow did this and didn’t know or remember? Like she disassociated? It seems she went to great lengths to investigate it. It is very hard to believe her story but I guess anything is possible.
There has been speculation that she has multiple personalities, with 1 personality tormenting her, and her main personality having no idea that was happening.
Props for not mincing words on this one. Imo for those without an emotional attachment to the subject matter one side of the argument is clearly more likely than the other
@@chuckharding6405 But thats just the start of it. She was barefoot, but her feet were clean. How she got there? Her body was decomposing, but dozens of people said it wasnt there a day earlier. How is that possible? She had nylon tied tightly around her neck that would choke her out, how she did that with her hands tied? She was injected with morphine, but no syringe found around her. She had literally minutes or less after injection to tie herself up, throw away the shoes and syringe and then choke herself out, thats a lot to not fuck up. Is it possible? Maybe? But is it possible to call yourself at work or around police with dozens of witnesses? NO someone else had to be involved
@@chuckharding6405 idk man nothing in this case makes sense. The amount of work and dedication you'd need to do that stuff is unreal, and hogtying yourself while overdosing on morphine is Danganronpa levels of uncommon. On the other hand, surely someone risking it all to make her go crazy is almost equally as hard to believe.
Very hard to believe that anyone with HPD would commit suicide. Someone who really wanted to mess with her would make several 'attempts', all with the intention of just scaring her until they were ready to actually do it. For some evil people, they actually enjoy torturing people. It's a thrill for them and they would wait to kill the person until every circumstance was just as they needed it to be. If any little thing were 'off', they wouldn't finish the job, they would wait and try again later. It wouldn't be hard for them to deliberately try to make it seem like she did it to herself. How could she tie herself up after ingesting that amount of drugs?
My husband of over 20 years had HPD and committed suicide. After many years of attention seeking behavior he had pretty much isolated himself. I had grown so weary of his behavior (and the fact that he was abusive) and finally called it quits. A few months later, he took his life in a way that assured that there would be A LOT of attention. He was willing to go that far to get the attention he thought he needed. It is entirely likely that Cindy staged an elaborate death for attention. People are still talking about it decades later. But honestly, I’m not fully convinced it wasn’t her ex husband. I’m just saying it’s possible she did this.
Totally agree. Also, her ex husband had a motive to scare her back to him, but when he realised or accepted that she wasn’t actually returning and that this whole thing backfired he probably just got rid of her. I can’t believe the theory she was vindictive of her ex or anything like that, it seems that simply wanted to break up with him but was attached to him due to the years they spent together.
WOW, that is a very unusual case! Maybe there is no legal way officers can send someone like that to some type of institution? A single incident would have been enough to send her away for treatment. Very unique case!
I just noticed I get all the notifications for your full videos, Dr.Grande, but haven't been getting them for the shorts. That's odd. Maybe my settings are off?
This is something I believe is called a “factitious disorder.” Ive read many of the comments insisting that her “stalker” was real but i can promise you that this “stalker” did not exist…. There is ZERO independent evidence of her “stalker” and Cindy would always refuse to identify him or provide useful descriptions of him to the police.
Mental illness, to those not aquatinted with the person, is not always apparent. A person can be perfectly functional, make good money, drive a car exceptionally well, act completely normal in short bursts, yet in a relationship be the poster person for a particular disfunction. The mind works in strange ways. “She was her own worse enemy” says it all.
This video was so intense the way you layered out this case. I couldn't wait to hear your analysis on this! It was both gripping and hilarious the way you told it! "The police couldn't figure out the motive for this pillow homicide." 😅 "He could be among one of the most greatest masterminds who ever lived." I can't tell you how much I appreciate everything you put out into this world, Dr. Grande! (With all due respect, I also have to say how deeply you've wedged into my heart! Your whole extraordinary and beautiful being!)
I have read about this case over 10 years ago. Cindy over a period of several years claimed to know who was doing this. She refused to share that info with the police. The voice of the caller sounded like a woman faking a male voice. This is a very strange case
Two more pieces of this puzzle though.
The ex-boyfriend police officer was later thrown out of the force after serious harassment complains, in another town.
Cindy’s body was found hogtied in a place that had been previously searched. No needles nor any drugs / paraphernalia were ever found, on her nor in her car. The car was deemed too far from the body for her to have walked the distance unseen.
There are plenty more details in this case, some in favor of mental illness, some making it impossible for her to have acted alone.
I’ve heard this case covered several times and still don’t know what to think.
She didn't do it
@@GenXfrom75 yeah, she did.
@@penskepc2374 k 🤣
It also should be noted that the threatening message left on Makepeace's answering machine is available to hear, and sounds like a woman's voice.
It is entirely possible that she was both stalked, harassed, killed and suffered mental illness because of it.
Let for sake of argument say she was telling the truth, then over the years it would cause mental health problem, it would of driven anybody to madness.
Always a possibility.
Yes! That’s what I was thinking
*would’ve / would have
I don’t know Dr. Grande.. I can tell you I was stalked for years, by annex boyfriend… he turned off the electricity underneath the house, he broke out lightbulbs, unscrewed the Lugnuts on my jeep sugar in my boat, stole my shoes, my keys, my cat.. and the list goes on…. The only time I was believed, as when there was a witness who caught him in the act, and that finally happened one day.….. but until then the authorities never consider this to be a fact…. So I really have to be careful when I judge people who say they have been stalked……
I 100% believe Cindy and you. I've been through something similar. I broke up with a guy like 10 years ago and he still to this day bribes people to follow me around, harassing me with methods that would make you seem crazy if you report it, have an active smear campaign where I work. He actually has some of them following me around work constantly reporting where I'm at and if I am using a phone, ect. this enables him to safely have someone else go through my personal property outside of work while knowing I wouldn't return back home from work suddenly. To some people Cindy's experience and mine are just too much to be believable but it certainly is if the person behind it has a lot of money / connections. A lot of people didn't believe any of this was actually happening until a guy started working where I was at the time and on break he was bragging to some other coworkers that he was being paid to follow me around from someone in my past. Also, this phone has been hacked, it was since the day I got it since he had someone follow me into the store and stand near me reporting everything as it was being activated.
@@someoneout-there2165 You're extremely delusional. Ones phone cannot be remotely hacked unless you've downloaded software or accessed shady websites.
@@someoneout-there2165 yikes…seek professional help. You sound very paranoid
@@someoneout-there2165 seek help
@@mrpussinboots4252 probably she was told to seek professional help so why do you have to twist the knife?
She may or may not be stalked. Why not let her vent here without putting her down?? It is her life after all that doesn't affect your.
People, be more sympathetic. Either case sympathy might help her instead hurting someone that is already hurt. There's no heroism in hurting a fallen human being.
She hogtied her own hands and feet behind her back? Neighbours heard someone in her house and a man was seen several times. Roy Makepeace got messages threatening her. Who exactly was it that was seen and exactly who left the messages. I’ve had a stalker. The police didn’t take it seriously at all. They refused to come and collect evidence when it was there. They refused to listen at all. What finally put a stop to it was that I moved and my apartment and car were in someone else’s name and I had an unlisted number. I’m sure she had mental health issues by the end of this if she was indeed being stalked.
I've heard the message. It does sound like a woman could have done it.
It's actually much easier than you think to tie yourself up. It's been demonstrated on television many times. There are books that teach you all the knots you need to know to tie yourself up in just about any fashion. The preponderance of evidence (or lack thereof) is the issue here. If you tell the cops hundreds and hundreds of times, that somebody is standing outside your window at night, and they investigate hundreds and hundreds of times, but never find footprints, cigarette butts, broken branches, or anything at all, then the odds that somebody is really there become infinitesimally small. You're also assuming that anybody supposedly spotted, wherever, wasn't just some rando, or even just a matter of mistaken identity (Dr. Grande touched on this, if you listened), both of which are statistically much more likely than an actual stalker that did this anonymously for decades. Likewise, the phone calls. You have to believe they are real in the first place, so your point is largely suppositional. But it was the 'eighties. You know what we did as kids when we were bored in the 'eighties? We made prank phone calls. Again, statistically more likely than a decades-long anonymous stalker who is never discovered by anybody, and for whom there is otherwise no evidence. I've known people like Cindy. (I actually knew somebody like Cindy who was named Cindy, coincidentally). This happens. This behavior is real. It's scary to see.
i second that. the messages to roy's answer phone sound like a women hiding her voice. although some have speculated that roy's ex wife could have been behind it as i think he left her for cindy
@@Vexarax exactly right, it does not add up. No way could she drive herself to an abandoned house, ingest that amount of drugs and then be able to tie herself up. She would be too high or likely dead before she would be able to tie herself.
The only reason the police helped me when I was being stalked was bc it was occurring primarily on a college campus and campus police take any incident like that way more seriously…
I once had a stalker about 11 years ago who did some really creepy af shyte, but nowhere on the scale of this Cincdy case. My stalker entered my home a few times and moved things around, and obviously took some rather insignificant items that he knew would be noticed since they were routine daily use items such as bar soap in the shower, finger nail clipper, a certain brush. The toilet paper rolls would be removed from the springing roller holder and placed on the vanity, and a few other weird things.
The most disturbing thing he did was take some folded clothing I no longer wore from my basement laundry folding table, brought them upstairs into the living room and placed them across the coffee table with a few clothing items on the floor neatly folded.
He was able to enter the house by picking the lock on the side door to the attached garage.
creepy af.
The scale of Cindy's case is absurd because she was making up stories/causing scenarios for attention.
I also had a stalker as a child who would video tape me on one of those old school handheld recorders, in my window. Every time that I actually noticed, I would scream and my dad would run outside and he would be gone. My dad said I was paranoid.
Until winter. There was snow outside and there was clearly multiple sets of mens shoes directly to my window and then back around the pond that was directly behind our house. Back and forth back and forth. My dad called the police. They took a report and nothing happened.
Then, he broke into my room about 3 times. He would just be standing there, and as soon as I saw him he would get down and crawl back out my window.
One night, I rolled over and he was standing in the middle of my room staring at me. I still remember that fear, I have never felt it since then again in my life. I couldn’t even scream or yell I just froze and stared at him and I silently cried, my mouth was open and I wanted to scream but nothing came out. And then he again, just crawled out my window. I told my dad that he was coming in my room, my dad said, I think you’re just scared because the pervert keeps trying to record you, so your mind is playing games with you. Don’t worry to much, he’s probably just some loser with a video camera.
Then he broke into my room for the final time, when I getting up to go to school, I was in 5th grade. My alarm on my night stand went off a couple times I kept pressing snooze and rolling back over. I was half asleep. And it was the middle of winter, I noticed the curtain blowing. It didn’t click in my head immediately. My bed was directly in front of the window with my feet facing half of the window. And then, he grabbed my feet HARD and tried to drag me out of the window. I screamed and screamed for my little brother (not sure why? It’s just the first thing that came out my mouth.) my little brother was younger than me. But he came in my room and starting throwing things towards to window and I was holding onto my headboard. My dad ran into my room as soon as he let go of me and ran off. My dad didn’t see him but at least my brother did. I wasnt ‘crazy’ anymore. After that, I WALKED TO SCHOOL BY MYSELF IN THE DARK. I didn’t think anything of it at first, after i calmed down, but once I got in the distance form my house, I started hysterically crying and I was terrified.
My dad filed a report while I was at school. A couple days later, the police came back to my house to ask me to make a statement and pick him out. They showed me a bunch of pictures and it took me awhile. I couldnt tell honestly. I had seen his face so many times, but everytime I was so terrified, that it just didn’t stay in my memory.
But they eventually arrested him he had almost a HUNDRED videos of me. Most of them when I was changing clothes for school, into pajamas, or sleeping. Obviously I never saw them, but the police told my dad this and said that once the trial was over they videos would be destroyed. They also checked the make sure that I wasn’t on any ‘websites.’ He stalked me for years and I only realized like the last 6 months. I still can’t believe he didn’t kidnap me. I later found out he was a s. Offender and had a record for kidnap and assault of a girl younger than me.
My point is, no one believed me. In fact, when I insisted people got pissed off. Even after they realized that someone was recording me, they said I was overreacting when it turns out I was actually majorly unaware how bad it actually was. I don’t know that I believe this case about Cindy 100% but I feel like maybe she was getting stalked originally, and she felt like no one believed her so she embellished more stalking behavior to get someone to take her seriously.
I don’t know if she did it herself or not but if she really had a stalker doing this to her can you imagine the horror of going through this and then having to go through people accusing you of not only making it up but then having you committed? It would be enough to actually drive you crazy.
A living nightmare. Yikes!
Believe all women huh...right...
@@1Roamingwolf I don't believe we said that. Amanda and I were speaking about the experience itself which could happen to any gender. You brought up women. Which makes me think you have a problem with females.
Yeah, I'm sure she was really just HORRIFIED out of concern for her own safety. That was probably the driving motivation behind her 3AM dog walks by herself. Give me a fucking break.
Thank you.
This case disturbs me & always has……I’m a nurse myself & it interests me that she was working in a clinical setting effectively (?) during this time - I feel we don’t have the whole truth of this case & probably never will 😞 so sad
I suffered a stalker for about 1 1/2 years. It was terrifyingly grippling. I got superstressed, could not sleep, feared for my child 24/7, never left the house w o my Rhodesian Ridgeback guard dog😖😖
Stalking is usually not seen as a priority by the police n few who has suffered it fathoms how paralyzing it is.
Well SOMEBODY was killing cats & harming dogs and that's effed up. Sounds like the lady was a Munchausen but with stalking. This case has always intrigued me so thanks for covering it. P.S. I found it hilarious that her boyfriend moved out of the house but kept dating her lol. He was like "nope, this place is not safe for me (but my gf can deal with it)." Nice guy.
His moving seems to indicate he wasn't convinced there was any real danger.
Actually, she is the one who asked him to move out.
' Variation on Munchausen's Syndrome/Factitious Disorder with the animals being the 'by proxy' bit ( directed towards law enforcement rather than doctors) was my first thought too... maybe in conjunction with Schizotypal Personality Disorder? Perhaps some Borderline Personality traits too? People can be complicated!
@@finwefingolfin7113 Very good analysis 👍
Even funnier you add in the fact that he was a police officer.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you
I think you just answered your own question lol
Doesn't mean they are after you either.
I'd be super fecked up in the head if all that happened to me, too!
Sounds like something a paranoid person would say.
Once I had a friend like Cindy, and beleive me NO ONE WAS AFTER HER!!!!!
Whether she caused all these things herself or there was actually someone terrorizing her she lived a harrowing last few years. What a terrible ending to her life.
She became a lot less costly to her community and her [personal] torment was over. She was committing crimes by making things up, perjuring others too, even if she didn't know she was fabricating them. This story has a less than terrible ending in my opinion
Not really, if she was faking it none of the terrorising was real. It was all an act. She would have been enjoying the attention she was getting.
@@1xoACEox1 exactly, it takes at least some degree of awareness of your actions to fake being a stalking victim. They’re acting like she was Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and unaware of what the other was doing. That’s not typically how this stuff works. The whole motive would have been some form of attention seeking, she wouldn’t have perpetuated it for so long if she wasn’t getting something out of it so the idea that she was terrorizing herself is kind of absurd imo.
Big red flag: You’ve have a stalker and have been physically attacked several times, yet you take your dog for a walk at 3:00 am? Yeah……
I must have missed that part but that's a huge red flag. I think with people in general it's important to not really listen to what they say but to watch what they do.
I think you can get very good at spotting lying that way. I remember in college there was a girl who was essentially hysterical about "I'm afraid of going out because men might murder me" then no joke maybe 3 weeks later I was walking in campus with some friends after the bar and she was so drunk she was sleeping on the sidewalk outside her dorm lol pretty brazen if you're afraid you'll get murdered when you're sober.
@@Aaron-kj8dv men take advantage of wo.en any chance they get. If she was an alcoholic, and men attacked her in the past while she was unable to defend herself, she might have trauma from that, a drinking problem to cope, AND a very real fear that a man might attack her anytime she's drinks to cope. I see many ignorant sociopaths in the comments, callus towards women being murdered and assaulted.
@@cramp4221 yeah I was surprised to see comments like that when at the end of the day the woman was murdered
That jumped right off at me too.
@@cramp4221 Thank you for your comment! It added nothing of value unless you consider vague blanket statements about half the population enriching.. The pure speculation on behalf of the woman being an alcoholic bc she was assaulted by MEN™was really cute bc it reminded me of the thought process a small child goes through when dealing with a learning disability. Thank you for that behind the scenes look at how your brain processes and rationalizes information. I would recommend paying better attention to the way Dr. Grande analyzes the reality of a situation while being mindful of his biases and keeping them in check. Good day.
The psychologist who did her sessions when she was committed said she had a lot of rage toward her father and was very likely abused by him as a child.
I was thinking the same thing. He was sexually abusing her and that was the reason she didn't go to Europe with them. I saw him on TV and he appeared very detached as if he was not talking about his daughter.
Thank you for covering this case. I have heard so many reputable clinicians address this case. It really is a mystery. And a tragedy regardless of what actually happened. As always, I am grateful for your thoroughness, compassion, and appropriate humor when needed.
I have listened to Dr. Grande for years and thoroughly enjoyed the videos and dry sense of humor, but he is off on this episode. I am disappointed as it appears the case has been under researched. Cindy James was surrounded by very dangerous people and any of them had a motive to harm and terrorize her. The police officer who lived with her - he later was imprisoned for sexually assaulting 2 women (one who stated he told her she reminded him of Cindy). Another was Dr. Makepeace's best friend Dr. Tyhurst - he did own a cabin and a former patient of his claimed he held her captive there. As well, a total of 3 women gave evidence in a criminal trial that Dr. Tyhurst beat and whipped them and forced them to sign "contracts" that they were his slaves. The Canadian criminal appellate court reversed his criminal convictions (though he still spent years in prison during the appeal) - but he paid his victims millions of dollars. Cindy and Makepeace went on trips with Dr. Tyhurst - Did she see something she shouldn’t have? Were they doing the same to her? Just being surrounded by such terrifying people who thought they were above the law (and I include her ex-husband in this) - would drive an already vulnerable person to paranoia. Let's not mock Cindy further.
And her father was believed to abuse her as a child even sexually. She was generally a very abused person and all this abuse can take a toll on you. Makepeace even admitted to hitting her a couple of times…. Even if she didn’t have a stalker who can really blame her for all the feelings she felt.
Interesting case. Too bad there were no doorbell cameras back then, it would have saved police a lot of time and effort. It may even have helped Cindy in the long run.
It would not matter. I had trail cams. Multiple police reports resulted in absolutely nothing. The cops would not follow up with the man stalking me, despite the protection order. This went on for years.
When I watch old Charlie Chan movies, I'm always thinking, "They'd never get away with that today." DNA and cameras everywhere.
Would it?
They dont help now, why would they back then?
I literally just saw a video of a random unarmed man getting shot by mistake by a SWAT unit, completely innocent man, and despite the video he was charged by the police anyway to cover it up, and the police chief refuses to answer any questions and says they will put more charges.
Police dosnt care, they didnt care back then ether, their main job is to enforce the state rules, not to solve crimes, its called law enforcement not citizen help for a reason.
Maybe im being a pessimist, but if they recorded on video someone who wasnt Cindy break the windows and set the fires they would just say "we cant find him", the same way they said they cant track the phone calls they recorded.
@@SirenaSpades Well at least you didn't find a way to make someone's tragic demise about yourself 🙄side eye
@@googleslocik Simplistic and naive pop culture. So, basically we don't need the police, because in every UA-cam video we ever see, they are only murdering unarmed citizens. Yeah, not sure I'm buying that.
I find it puzzling that she was able to maintain employment during all this craziness 🤔🤔
People with this kind of problems can often be highly functional at work or among friends and family. On the inside there is a different story and their inner "demons" comes boiling up when they are alone. Just look at BTK or the Canadian Airforce officer. I have met a few woman that was totally normal on the outside but bat shit crazy on the inside.
Its the same with my cousin my dad and i live with. As of recently they have her on 5 different types of anti-psychotics and she has been losing her freaking mind. She's not even herself anymore but the moment you say anything about her like that she flips out and tells you that she's changed, she's not a nice person anymore and if we don't like it when we can kiss her a$* and get the hell out of her house. I can go on and on for days on all of the abuse we have to go through in order to not be homeless.
On the bright side, I'm working my butt off to save up money, I'm a full time college student so I will be receiving my financial aid here very soon and as soon as I do that I will be putting in applications to get us out of this phychward. She is an up and down roller coaster where you never know if one minute shes happy and laughing, the next she's telling you Fu*K yoOoOoUuUu and the ONLY reason she's able to keep her job is because she has two children that are 13 who are autistic and she works for IHSS. On the other hand she is the most neglectful parent I've ever met. Those kids spend their entire lives on the computer and only get up for food, water and to use the toilet. She spends no time with them at all and they are receiving no socialization as she told me to stop hanging out with them because it makes their dad jealous. But to everyone else they think she's just fine. She also lies about my dad and I to everyone and talks to much crap that everyone thinks were the bad ones who are always in the wrong. This woman needs constant drama to survive in her day to day life or else i think she would have a mental breakdown and die.
I was a single mother being stalked. I had to work to have a roof and food for my kids. And, if I didn't, they would be taken from me.
I thought the same.
There's plenty of full-blown addicts who maintain sometimes very successful careers, at least for a couple decades. Also, it was different times. I'm a millenial. When I was just out of high school, working a few years before I went to uni, I spent time in some factories, brickyards, etc. Coming from a middle-class suburban family in Toronto, I was shocked to discover that there were a fare number of older guys around/past average retirement age (baby boomers) who couldn't read or write. Yet they had big houses, usually a second vacation home/cottage, multiple cars, etc. Now, at least in Toronto, you can have Masters and might end up in Starbucks on minimum wage. So, back then, there was clearly different standard as to whether people got employed or not.
I fully believe she did it all. I think people were swayed by her beauty, and therefore inclined to believe her. I listened to another very detailed compelling podcast about the case, and as Dr.Grande pointed out- it would have been impossible for such a prolific stalker to exist without a shred of physical evidence of his existence. Thanks for sticking to the facts and presenting all the logic involved in your analysis.
Dreading? (Just a guess) I don't have strong feelings on either side but I've heard a few compelling arguments that its entirely possible a REAL stalker or predator might have had knowledge about her propensity for crying wolf and took advantage of the fact that her case would be less likely to be greeted with immediate seriousness (again because of her history of false claims) and he may have used said information of the alleged "stalker's" calling card or trademarks when conducting the act itself so that it would be seen as even just a possibility that she had tried to stage it herself and it went horribly wrong. Again I'm open to having my mind changed but after the Sherri Papini case I'm no longer unreceptive to the idea that someone could be THAT committed to a false story
@@jamesa.romano8500 there have been cases of narcissistic personalities who killed themselves as a way of "legend building."
I'm reminded of a psycho (I think he was a murderer, but I'm having a hard time verifying/remembering this right now)... as the justice system was closing in, he told everyone that he had a terminal illness, then committed suicide. It was kind of a bummer because when he killed himself, it was as though he had escaped justice...
A forensic psychiatrist later discovered that he had no terminal disease at all. He had made it up. Apparently the guy's family didn't even know he had faked his illness, they took it to be true. The forensic psychiatrist then found the psycho came from a family where several generations of men- all outlaw types- had killed themselves in acts of defiance, and these suicides were glorified in local outlaw lore.
So, just to say, it's not totally unknown for people to kill themselves, either intentionally or accidentally, due to some pretty outlandish motives.
I've been stalked. I received no validation so I resent people like you discounting it. I put up cameras and got recorded proof, but police didn't care. They would reluctantly generate reports after I talked to the chief, but nothing was done to the man, even though I had a protection order. This went on for years.
@@wolfumz Not familiar with that one but doesn't Officer Joe Gliniewicz's case fall into that same line/category??
@@SirenaSpades 2 different things, there’s plenty of reasonable doubt to conclude Cindy was lying
Neighbor saw a strange man outside, bf catches the ex (a psychiatrist?) outside her house, but people think she did it herself.. how do you hogtie yourself after an OD but there's no meds anywhere? I honestly think the ex wanted to drive her catshit crazy and he succeeded..
He usually had an alibi. But he was also just as concerned about her and tried to help. You should look up how to tie yourself up. Not only is it possible but its been around for decades. Only now you can google it!
@Tessa Ducek so how did she administer the drugs to herself, get them completely away from the scene and THEN tie herself up? By the time she got rid of the evidence the drugs would've been taking effect.. you can Google it but how well can you do it with all that pumping thru your system?
Cindy was nuts.
@@salravioliCindy was in charge of her ward at the hospital
She was directed of Blenheim house before that
People who are nuts do not hold down these positions and are not populate in the workplace
Her family and friends witnessed phonecalls and strange occurances
Whatever was going on this is tragic. Poor woman was tortured either way you look at it. 😢
I know this was a highly requested subject over the past few years and so happy you got to it. One of the strangest and creepiest cases I have ever read about.
Faked it all
Is this one of those, “The calls were coming from inside the house” things?
Stories of stalkers always unnerve me because of how they don’t just happen to celebrities. Faking something like that is baffling
THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr Grande! I have been requesting for you to cover this case for years and I am so happy you've finally covered it!
Just an addition: her birth name was Cynthia Elizabeth Hack. 'James' was an assumed surname because she was encouraged to change her legal name due to the stalking.
Good morning 🌅🌄, Dr. Grande! I see you're awake, too! This Case totally fascinates me! Thank You!
I have been accused by several psychiatrists of faking my illness (at the same time, several said I was mentally coping well with a severe illness). I now know that it was in fact a severe illness (MCAS, EDS, POTS). There is nothing more frustrating than not being believed, so my personal bias is strongly in Cindy’s favour. She wasn’t getting attention when she kept having story after story, she was being accused of wasting police’s time, lost many friends, moved several times, wasn’t able to have a good partner, and got diminishing attention from it. Why would she have continued? What would be her motivation? If she was doing it for attention it would have shifted over time, the stories would have changed over years of telling. She would have come up with better stories that would have garnered more attention. Nobody fakes the same thing over and over again- people get bored with it. There wouldn’t have been a gradual escalation pattern like this had.
There’s plenty of reasons that a stalker would do weird things like unscrew a lightbulb, set a little fire, break a window. Fear, power and control. Which is also why she refused to change her life- she refused to let him control her. That probably made him madder and madder. He didn’t want to kill her, he wanted to control her. But he couldn’t, so he ended up killing her.
A similar thing happened to me as well. Doctors accused me of attention seeking or trying to get meds. Turned out to be a rare spinal disease, and now I'm half paralyzed
@@anusthing Oh no! I’m actually battling a spinal infection right now, two vertebrae have started fracturing, T9, T10, but they’re still stable 🤞 If they’d figured you out sooner, would it have made a difference?
Oh I know... EDS symptoms are so weird and come and go with flare ups. Its frustrating that doctors always brush off chronic pain from it to being attention seeking or whatever.
@@karenneill9109 yes, it would have. It's a degenerative disease, and if they had intervened earlier, they could have slowed it down
@@anusthing I’m sorry to hear that. I’m not sure how to fix it, but doctors need to get better at listening to their patients.
in for my daily dose of Dr. Todd Grande
Greetings from zee wintry climes of Basle, Switzerland
This case is so fascinating to me, it’s almost like a real life Hitchcock movie. Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande! 🙏🏻
While most of this could have been the woman fabricating/imagining things, how about the neighbors seeing "strange" men lingering and what not. The one traced call going to a third party, etc. A tiny shred of credibility, as most of the incidents can probably be deduced to be her own actions.
I am middle aged, but in the mid to late 80’s I started to receive obscene phone calls (pre caller ID). They continued and the caller would describe clothes that I had been wearing. I called the police and they told me to change my number to an unlisted one, I did. The calls continued and became more threatening. I called the cops again after changing my number a second time. The feds became involved and began tracing the incoming calls. The man that was caught worked in a furniture store, that I had bought furniture from and I was making monthly payments by check. I would sometimes drop the check off in person and my phone number was always added to the check. He was arrested. Turns out he was married and had a new baby at home. The police acted quickly and solved the problem easily. I know that video was not as prevalent in the 80s, but it did exist. Why did they not send a car to sit outside her house and why did the cop move out? I am not saying it did not happen, but it happened to me and was resolved fairly quickly.
they couldnt find a single trace of dna either
There was no DNA back then and the calls were traced but he never stayed on the line long enough
Hello Dr. Grande! I’m looking forward to the episode. Thank you!
This is an Absolutely Terrifying , and Disturbing Case! I feel so bad for Cindy!
Dr grande. Please consider doing an episode on the teacher in the pocono mountains in Pennsylvania who framed another teacher for stalking and harassing her simply to gain sympathy and attention. A very bizarre case
I saw that on Forensic Files. That was a strange one.
@@easttowest5984 forensic files was shot right in Allentown PA and had a number of episodes of local interest. Allentown is south of the pocono mountains in eastern Pennsylvania
@@wendiwonderly1419 Right, I remember the names if we are speaking of the same case. Joanne Chambers and Paula Norocki ( I have no clue how to spell the name)
I’m guessing her stalker was a cop or someone in authority over cops and they tried to make it look like she was staging it all. The assertion her death was a suicide is ludicrous.
I think Mr. Ballen covered this one too. I remember one person who commented thought that Agnes had something to do with it.
So glad to see Dr. Grande finally cover this fascinating case!
One thing that isn't mentioned in the video is that the threatening message left on Makepeace's answering machine is available to hear, and it sounds to have been made by a woman.
It’s amazing the things people do and say for attention. At the same time I feel bad for her, she definitely needed a lot of help.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Dr. Grande.❤
Hi Rejane. I agree, feel bad for her but believe she needed help. Hope your new year is going well😊🌷💚🌅
@@zenawarrior7442 Yes, she was on a self made prison.
Thank you Zena, I hope yours is going very well too. Send my love to mom.❤️
@@rejaneoliveira5019 Great point...the self made prison! Thanks so much. I will 💜Busy year so far here😊🏜
Love your sense of humor, Dr. Grande!
The police dropped the ball on this case. They should have set up security cameras inside and outside the house. That way they would have seen the stalker or discovered that Cindy was lying.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think she was really being stalked, and that affected her mental health (because, duh). I also think that might have led her to fabricate some of the incidents- since the police weren't taking her seriously, maybe she "added" some incidents so that they'd believe her.
Absolutely. Who's going to remain sane if being harassed like this for nearly a decade?
It's an excellent point.
The police spent millions of dollars investigating. I think you are saying they dropped the ball because they didn't arrive at an outcome you would prefer. I think they arrived at the correct outcome: she was not being stalked. Your scenario is way more complicated. Likely, the simplest answer is correct. Cindy was suffering from mental illness.
Security cameras inside the house would just reveal a lie, i doubt she'd ever have been willing to allow it.
That makes the most sense.
Such a crazy story
You can't have watched it yet how do you know
@Clay Hackney Jeez it's almost like this isn't one of the most famous unsolved mysteries
Hi night shift. I'm just in time for my break. Ty Dr. Grande.
Nurse Esther 😳
I’ve been anticipating this video for a while now.thanks
The alarming part of this story is that she was actually hired to work as a nurse in the health care industry. She could have done a lot of damage. Imagine having her in charge of your IVs and medications. The second most concerning thing is her treatment of animals. There was evidence that her dog was mistreated and a dead cat was found in her home. The woman was certifiably insane. I'm just glad no one else other than the poor cat had to pay the ultimate price. The money and time that was spent on her insanity was unreal.
Was she "certifiably insane?" In the UK, and I presume also in Canada, to be detained on account of mental illness you have to pose a risk your own health or safety or that of other people due to mental disorder. Harming or killing animals does not count.
There are thousands of people who cut themselves or take overdoses, and they do not get locked up these days. To be detained in hospital she would need to have done something more serious: but then, we know she WAS detained once.
Usually you need to seem mentally disordered between episodes of self-harm to be detained for treatment, and some jurisdictions prefer the disorder to be treatable: mental health professionals often label those they can't/don't want to treat as having a personality disorder.
Hello 👋 good Dr. Grande 😀
She lived in my area. Crazy case.
Why is it so hard to believe that there was someone out to get her? She died in the end after all?
this kinda reminds me of the case of denise huskins ... I saw it on that chapter i shook my head the entire time saying "the kidnapped victim is fabricating everything" but at the end..she was telling the truth...but it was so insane and dramatic...i was sure it was a hoax
Because why would you break in and attack someone and leave a note saying you are trying to kill someone, yet leave them alive with a note pinned to them in a way that is guaranteed not to be terminal? It requires the most masterful yet also incompetent supervillain, or just a mentally Ill woman who is a threat to herself. Either way it’s very sad.
Because everytime the police would watch the house and tap the phone lines there would be nothing as soon as they took it off it would happen again.
He broke into her house on several occasions yet never left any physical evidence.
And when the fire was set there was no sign of intrusion and cindy was fully clothed when asked why she answered
Oh I was out walking the dog .
A woman constantly assaulted by a stalker who’s calls the police hundreds of times and who has friends sleeping over because she is so afraid.
Yet she walks a dog a 3 am all by herself………. Doesn’t sound right
And a security expert installed a panic button that would alert authorities if there was an emergency immediately, at all 3 days paces she lived during the time yet during an attack it was always disconnected
When you look at that even the most hardcore believer would raise an eyebrow
@@rupertsmith5815 wow I made this comment over five months ago and he wrote a book. Do you really reply to all comments like this?
@@dee-annminer-evans do you always take issue with time ?
The part about her first husband is very strange. I don’t think that has anything to do with the stalker but it sounds like losing her husband to suicide could’ve traumatized her. I think it’s very eerie that her whole family didn’t even know who her first husband was. Maybe it’s possible he never existed and she also made that up.
She most likely made him up competely
I had a very good friend who was a pathological liar and I don't know to this day why but she made up entire relationships and people who died in her life it was very detailed and her emotions seemed very real and none of it was reality
He didn’t exist
@@kimberlyroland9394 A good way to get attention and sympathy.
@@kimberlyroland9394 I knew someone who had twin daughters that didn't exist.
No matter how you consider the possibilities and implications in this story, it's puzzling and fascinating ☺ 👍
I have been waiting for this. very excited to hear your thoughts
She must've been miserable. Good analysis, and tragic story.
I'm here to watch this ☺ Thank You, Doctor Grande !!!
But who made the calls, send notes and broke stuff while she was with other people? Someone kept calling her at work for years and this was witnessed by dozens of people. Police answered multiple of those calls but failed to track them down. Multiple police officers witnessed those things.
The answer "she paid someone to keep doing it so it dosnt count" is laughable and idiotic. Clearly other people were involved, and then it isnt just "all in her head".
Dr. Todd one day covers cases of stalkers and serial killers that fallow their victims for decades, and here in another video says its unlikely?
Come one, a 10 year long stalking ending in murder is the least weird story this channel covered.
As always, thank you! Being a native of Tucson, AZ, in the middle of the Saguaro National Forest, I enjoy your cacti display! ☀️🌵😎
I thought DrG was the stalker at first based on the thumbnail. So funny!
The police and mental health, never a good combo
I believe that I believe her. Even if it is exaggerated , if it is 1% truth, it needs to be taken seriously.
It seems that her parents moving to France and her staying behind could have been the start of her feelings of loneliness and abandonment?
It also seems that her first boyfriend did not actually exist?
Never heard of this but true or false - the incidence of stalking should never be dismissed or underestimated. A stalker is a sad, deranged individual who has invented a life for him/herself where he/she has significance in the life of the object of his attentions, and they can go on for years. They become nasty and unhinged when their delusions are exposed. This is a way of life for them, a way of enduring their own lives by way of a parasitic clinging to another's life, wherein they believe they are somehow involved. I agree there is so much more stalking goes on than we think, as, for their world (as they know it ) to exist the truth cannot be discovered. Whatever sad circumstances have led to this cannot be fathomed, however the violation of others privacy and human rights cannot be justified.
This is one of the most fascinating cases. I have heard a lot of different people cover it but this video is by far the most informative. Great job, Dr. Grande 💜💐🌈🖖
Been waiting for you to cover this case!!!
Interesting Story Dr. !! Very complicated and even scary!
Yesss king go off
Yass queen okkkkkprrr are you 14 years old?
@@PrecociousFriand yeah I am
She did it all. I honestly don't even know how people argue there was an actual stalker as besides a few sentences in the case file(that could easily be taken out of context) there is no evidence he existed. Every professional that came into contact with this case came to the conclusion she was making it up.
I think this case needs more investigating! Who was killing all the animals? Imagine having all those things done to you, would it eventually give you PTSD? What could she do?
how would you investigate the killing of a cat 40 years ago?
There was never any proof that cats were killed.
Sadly Cindy tried very hard to blame her ex husband first until it was proven without a doubt that he was not present (as in not in the country) and many other facts that excluded him from the “stalking.” She then tried to blame other men in her life. The attacks and “injections” and petty arsons and nylons around her neck and amnesia are foreshadowing of how she ended her life. She needed serious help. A SERIES of “fake police officers” rings alarm bells as a form of mental illness. The “stalker” (in a pre internet age as well) seemed to have absolutely god-like power over Cindy as in her “unlisted” number was constantly discovered by her stalker, her new name, her living arrangements were always discovered, her work places even though no one ever saw any man- over many years. She reported constant break ins and talked constantly to the police, which seems very desperate, sadly. She needed help desperately but it wasn’t because there was an all-powerful stalker. There have been many cases of people doing things to themselves sadly (as in writing dozens of letters from a “stalker” over many years) and people who have done any bdsm have said the way she was tied - which was loose by bdsm standards - was easy to do herself. Also, the stalker then gave her morphine and hog tied her but didn’t SA her? Why? Why if he was so murderous did he give her a pain relieving drug? To me, and given her nursing background, the morphine suggests she was hoping to be found before dying. Sorry.
I like your analysis 👍🏽
Stalking happens far more often than people realise. even though Cindy fabricated evidence and her story implausible, it's important not to be dismissive when people claim to be victims of stalking, as it can have dangerous consequences. It's a shame nobody was able to help her.
When I heard this story, it totally reminded me of when people are "gang stalked". This happens a lot more often than people realize, but most people don't really know about this type of stalking. As a result they tend to dismiss it & think the person who is being gang stalked is just making things up or crazy... :(
Agree 100%
If all that shit happened to me, I'd be a fecking basket case, too!
Do we have an explanation on the cactus love out of Delaware?
I'll be blunt: it's absolutely incredible to me that there are people who are so gullible as to believe her story.
I work in a field in which you get pretty good at spotting B.S... so when I hear a story like this, or like Jussie Smollett's, it kind of blows my mind that anyone could possibly buy into it.
Yeah, I can’t imagine a stalker having such dedication and restraint at the same time. No one would go to all that risk for years; slowly escalating.
I think sometime like the Jussie Smollet case people WANT to believe it's real so much that they ignore evidence to the contrary.
Probably the same in this case, it's so interesting if it is real and who knows? Maybe the cops know it's BS but they have to do their due diligence anyway.
You don’t believe Jussie? He’s the most credible person in Hollywood
What do you do for a living
confirmation bias
Was looking for a video on this case,... Most annoyed me for some reason.... The last one was a whispered ASMR which was just beyond creepy!!! Whispering about a murder case is just too weird. But then... HELLO!! Dr Grande.... Sometime who can make some real sense of this case. Here i stay 😊.
I believe Cindy was stalked, likely by an ex- the most dangerous subtype of stalker. The cognitive dissonance required to ignore the physical facts of her death is just too much. People would rather call a woman crazy than admit that a man could be that evil. In His Sights by Kate Brennan is a good firsthand account of what an obsessive individual with a lot of money and connections can do when a relationship ends.
Yes, I am in total agreement with you, so sad people like these exist 😞
Please read more on the case. A lot of details missing.
I agree with Dr Grande’s analysis 100%. The only thing I have questions about is CJ’s death. Did she mean to kill herself or was it accidental OD? Perhaps she wanted the doctors and police to find drugs in her system, but she took more than her body could handle so she died accidentally? Or perhaps she really did want to die?
"Maybe Roy Makepeace wasn't interested in making peace after all." LOL 😄😄
Is it possible she somehow did this and didn’t know or remember? Like she disassociated? It seems she went to great lengths to investigate it. It is very hard to believe her story but I guess anything is possible.
There has been speculation that she has multiple personalities, with 1 personality tormenting her, and her main personality having no idea that was happening.
Props for not mincing words on this one. Imo for those without an emotional attachment to the subject matter one side of the argument is clearly more likely than the other
IDK...I've survived through similar situations...I've lived to tell...+✌
Saying that she did it to herself is really CRUEL!!! There are enough evidences which imply that there is a stalker, indeed!
Bullshit. She was a fruitcake. Completely loony!
Jussie Smollett could have taken a few pages from the Cindy James book of Imaginary Stalkers.
@@Vexarax She had about 3 minutes to tie herself before the sedatives took effect.
@@Vexarax 🙄
@@chuckharding6405
But thats just the start of it.
She was barefoot, but her feet were clean. How she got there?
Her body was decomposing, but dozens of people said it wasnt there a day earlier. How is that possible?
She had nylon tied tightly around her neck that would choke her out, how she did that with her hands tied?
She was injected with morphine, but no syringe found around her. She had literally minutes or less after injection to tie herself up, throw away the shoes and syringe and then choke herself out, thats a lot to not fuck up.
Is it possible? Maybe?
But is it possible to call yourself at work or around police with dozens of witnesses?
NO
someone else had to be involved
@@chuckharding6405 idk man nothing in this case makes sense. The amount of work and dedication you'd need to do that stuff is unreal, and hogtying yourself while overdosing on morphine is Danganronpa levels of uncommon.
On the other hand, surely someone risking it all to make her go crazy is almost equally as hard to believe.
Thanks for covering this! I believe she was stalked and killed! No way she did that to herself either way very tragic
Very hard to believe that anyone with HPD would commit suicide. Someone who really wanted to mess with her would make several 'attempts', all with the intention of just scaring her until they were ready to actually do it. For some evil people, they actually enjoy torturing people. It's a thrill for them and they would wait to kill the person until every circumstance was just as they needed it to be. If any little thing were 'off', they wouldn't finish the job, they would wait and try again later. It wouldn't be hard for them to deliberately try to make it seem like she did it to herself. How could she tie herself up after ingesting that amount of drugs?
My husband of over 20 years had HPD and committed suicide. After many years of attention seeking behavior he had pretty much isolated himself. I had grown so weary of his behavior (and the fact that he was abusive) and finally called it quits. A few months later, he took his life in a way that assured that there would be A LOT of attention. He was willing to go that far to get the attention he thought he needed. It is entirely likely that Cindy staged an elaborate death for attention. People are still talking about it decades later. But honestly, I’m not fully convinced it wasn’t her ex husband. I’m just saying it’s possible she did this.
Totally agree. Also, her ex husband had a motive to scare her back to him, but when he realised or accepted that she wasn’t actually returning and that this whole thing backfired he probably just got rid of her. I can’t believe the theory she was vindictive of her ex or anything like that, it seems that simply wanted to break up with him but was attached to him due to the years they spent together.
WOW, that is a very unusual case!
Maybe there is no legal way officers can send someone like that to some type of institution? A single incident would have been enough to send her away for treatment.
Very unique case!
I just noticed I get all the notifications for your full videos, Dr.Grande, but haven't been getting them for the shorts. That's odd. Maybe my settings are off?
I listened to an audiobook about this. The poor woman was extremely disturbed.
The whole story is sad all around.
That's a long time for someone to keep up such activities.
Hey Doc
Atlast I am so early!
She could be a victim of that f****** stalking victim all this s*** could have been done just to drive her crazy
This is something I believe is called a “factitious disorder.” Ive read many of the comments insisting that her “stalker” was real but i can promise you that this “stalker” did not exist…. There is ZERO independent evidence of her “stalker” and Cindy would always refuse to identify him or provide useful descriptions of him to the police.
Mental illness, to those not aquatinted with the person, is not always apparent. A person can be perfectly functional, make good money, drive a car exceptionally well, act completely normal in short bursts, yet in a relationship be the poster person for a particular disfunction. The mind works in strange ways. “She was her own worse enemy” says it all.
This video was so intense the way you layered out this case. I couldn't wait to hear your analysis on this! It was both gripping and hilarious the way you told it!
"The police couldn't figure out the motive for this pillow homicide." 😅
"He could be among one of the most greatest masterminds who ever lived."
I can't tell you how much I appreciate everything you put out into this world, Dr. Grande! (With all due respect, I also have to say how deeply you've wedged into my heart! Your whole extraordinary and beautiful being!)
I have read about this case over 10 years ago. Cindy over a period of several years claimed to know who was doing this. She refused to share that info with the police. The voice of the caller sounded like a woman faking a male voice. This is a very strange case
When my narc began stalking and phoning me, I let the answer phone pick it up, So he wasn't getting to talk to me.
I cut off his fuel.
Thank you for not saying anything more than “physically mistreated” or “dead” in regard to the animals. That’s a lot harder for many people to hear.
I remember asking for this on your channel and I have only now seen it. I still don't know what to think about it this case. Anyway great video!
Best episode yet Dr. Double G!
Thank you Dr. Grande, I have been waiting for your analysis on Cindy. ❤
Oliver BC is a nice little town. Been there a few times.
I’ve just retired north of there 🙀