CW of MA v Karen Read: DEFENSE FILES MOTION TO DISMISS discussed with legal analysis
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The Defense Team has filed a Motion to Dismiss Counts 1 & 3, as they are alleging that a juror has advised them that the jury came to unanimous NG verdicts on those two counts, therefore both counts should be dismissed with prejudice.
@AliMotta and I will dig in and see what's up.
#KarenRead #KarenReadTrial #JusticeForJohnOKeefe #LawTube #Lawyer #MotionToDismiss #DefenseDiaries
I swear during the jury instructions the judge said,
" Do not fill in any slips until you have gone ahead and fully deliberated all the charges and come to a decision.."
@traceydavis6471 in going to have to rewatch the day she released them for deliberation. I've been involved in an argument about how Bev changed the juror slips. Several are dating she didn't. But if she didn't, why'd she come back in & make a big elaborate speech about how her original form was proper & she wanted a record made.
@@PhoebeMc she amended the slips after Jackson's argument, I believe she added something to the 2nd charge slip
It's beginning to bug me now, so I may make time to go back again, but I remember her saying something along those lines as I thought to myself
, "well that's confusing in itself..."
Yes, she did several times. She also said don't tell me or anyone what your decisions are.
When P O'K said how Proctors life was turned upside down and made a victim out of him he totally lost me. I just wish he had an open mind but he seems to want some closure even if an innocent woman goes to prison.
I have never seen a trial this convoluted. It has been such a mess. This new mess is completely the responsibility of the judge and it could have been avoided.
That was up to the JUDGE TO MAKE IT CLEAR!!!!
This trial is the product of a bumbling, incompetent ADA and a lazy, narcissist judge.
As a “regular person” I can totally see that the jury would think it was all or nothing - meaning you have to decide on all counts, not knowing that they could decide on each separate account.
Yes! I imagine they would assume the court gives them instructions on that once they are in court. Its mystifying. 🤷🏻♀️
Amen!
Judge’s oral instructions could easily have made the jury think they had to agree on all three charges before filling in a vote. 😊
I am from a law enforcement family and we are not that naïve
Karen is on trial For HER LIFE. Get it???? Later.
I have close friends in canton MA and they are not as naïve as Paul is
Room for confusion should never exist!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't see how it matters what the jury has seen or heard since the trial. No one is asking them to make a new decision. The question is how they voted on day 5. Nothing they have seen or heard after that can change what they did on day 5
Yes. A post-verdict hearing can easily be limited to *just* the question of agreement or not. RESULTS ONLY. There is no need to get into their reasoning or the contents of any deliberations.
It was up to Bev. She was the “gatekeeper” and sustained 9 out of 10 objections from her pal Lally.
I assume defense thought her closed door meeting with them was to poll them about the charges and if they were hung on all or one- which according to Mass law is the judges responsibility to do before she declares a mistrial.
I assumed she was going in to poll them after the trial too. But makes more sense to ask them directly if they are conclusive on any charges or hung on all prior to declaring a mistrial.
Mass Rues of Crim. Procedure 27(b) "The judge may declare a mistrial as to any charges upon which the jury cannot agree upon a verdict; provided, however, that the judge may first require the jury to return verdicts on those charges upon which the jury can agree and direct that such verdict be received and recorded." Seems straightforward. As soon as she received the last note she should've polled the Jury. Seems like she was just over it and declared a mistrial too fast.
We need a law change from "may" to "must". Won't help here but will make sure it doesn't happen again.
@@alanasbaby7was also going to comment that the key word here was “may”
The judge is the interface to the jury...it's her job to manage. She micromanaged everything else
During jury instructions, Cannone instructed the jury to NOT mark the verdict form until they reached a verdict as to all charges.
@@CW1971 Yes.
@@valhallaw I'm so sorry! That comment was meant for someone else who's commented about 30 times 🙈 Sorry once again I'll delete it now, I've no idea how it ended up under one of your comments.
I *did* mean to reply to you to say that yes, I thought I'd heard that too about not marking the verdict until they'd decided on all counts, but wasn't sure if I was misremembering
@@CW1971 oh don’t worry! I WAS posting a lot of comments! Sometimes I roll them up but this time I was commenting along the way. This case is so INSANE!
Someone posted Auntie Bev instructing the jurors, she said
"After the final vote of the jury, the floorperson should check the appropriate boxes to each charge then sign and date the verdict slips and notify the court officer that you have reached a unanimous verdict "
It sure seems to me that they very well could've thought they had to be unanimous on all counts. She didn't instruct them on a split verdict.
Additionally, I know Ali looks into the laws in MA and someone posted a law that said before a mistrial the judge can ask them what verdicts they agree with and what verdicts they are hung on.
I heard, and this is rumor from media, that Paul chose to be on the side. I feel bad for Paul. He still mentioned the Ring camera stuff which was proven to be not true she had access, just shows how his grief is not allowing him to view this with an open mind.
What do you say?
When it comes to this case, all I can say is, “Of course.”
How would it be Karen Read’s fault that her attorneys didn’t ask the question? Also, isn’t what matters is whether she was acquitted on two counts regardless of who did what?
We can dislike someone and feel bad for the too. Not cough buddy we have a right to dislike him so u have your feelings and we have ours. No shaming!
I don't think it's more about how some people are choosing to express that dislike. People have said really awful things about both the O'Keefes and the jurors that weren't NG that go beyond just disliking or disagreeing with them.
This needs to be clarified by checking with the jury. Bev do the right thing. It should have been on the form. No agreement on each count and signed. Were the intimidated by the crew in court mcalberts.
You're both so awesome!!! Thank you for all the hard work and time!
Brian Albert showing up closing arguments.
I think the people got upset about him talking bad about KR . That’s if
Ali, I visit your channel here in my rotation, obviously awesome! When you were a guest on Melanie Little, you really highlight each other’s personalities and information. I hope you all team again Thank you all for putting out the technical side so I’m not searching case law (which I have no business doing).😊
Agree! That was a great collaboration! Their energy working together was just seamless.
I am listening too replay, and thank you. Remember it was July 4 week, and judge was getting restless, tired, and wanted to leave for vacation. They need to get Higgins admit his fist fight, and his anger problem with Karen ghosting him, car didn't hit John, so get to the real murderers, and bev should be ashamed of herself. Karen is innocent, and no she wouldn't to admit to something the last two witnesses said the car was not the reason for his death.
Maybe one of the drunks at the party will feel guilty enough to get honest about the fight.
That Albert kid is involved that is why the relatives are covering for him.
Judge Bev is nasty to defense when it asks a question, but fairness to the defendant should outweigh whether a question could have been asked. Morally, that is.
I don't think Judge Bev will grant the motion. I don't think she would have dropped the first charge. She was very keen to set dates for the next trial.
In terms of the 2 jurors with the informants & intermediaries - yes it’s hearsay.
But didn’t the defense HAVE to report these communications with this motion? Otherwise they can’t bring it up later or on appeal.
Would either of you omitted the I-I communications from a motion to dismiss under the same circumstances?
We lost shaming Jay? No No! Come back Jay!
Motta describes himself as a legendary defense attorney and warns people not to get into his zone of pain. Motta and Jackson and Rozzie
and Baldwin are all using their clients to ride the wave of attention to I guess all become legendary defense attorneys.
Those jurors are implicating the Court as improper..when They signed the document! ❤️
Thanks guys - missed the live - know u r busy with Rust trial- was looking forward to your take on the latest developments on the KR story
It really surprised me that there were no motions raised after the mistrial was declared, I assumed it was a regional quirk. Mass is probably the quirkiest jurisdiction I've seen
Been waiting on this all day!!! And BAM! MISSED IT! Replay kinda night for me!
Same!
Same lol
LlJudfe Bev said CHARGES , they were hung on charges-pural. That insinuate ls all, if there were only some/1, she mislead EVERYONE by saying charhes.
Not necessarily. The second d charge had multiple charges to select.
Recently found you , watching from England, can't believe the corruption here
Anyone else think it's weird a judge, (who was asked to recuse herself) chooses a jury forperson who writes like a lawyer? I'd really wonder if she has any professional/personal experience with him. It's weird the person writes like an attorney ABD starts that note first citing there were jurors who found no reasonable doubt, then 2ndly says there were some that did. Linguistically, what you write 1st is most imp to the writer.
LOVE LISTENING LAW FRIENDS..
Bob & Ali, I blame y'all for my being *so* behind on everything UA-cam, I've been so sidetracked by your mesmerizing voices & big brains, I've finished binging every season of the pod, and haven't been able to consume anything else ♡
Thank you both
Was there not a lawyer on the jury? Even I know enough to speak up and make it known that we'd come to unanimity on 2 counts
Why didn't they ask to poll the jury?
Replay crew!
I heard that you weren’t allowed to poll the jury there? Granted the judge should have asked. IMO
I thought I'd heard that too, they don't poll the jury in that state
Not quite. Technically the rules governing polling the jury only apply to returned verdicts. That is why some people are saying juries can’t be polled, since this is a mistrial & there was no verdict.
However, the judge IS allowed to tell the jury that they should return a verdict on any charges where they DO agree.
MA R Crim Proc 27(b) covers situations where there are multiple charges against a defendant.
27(b)
If there are two or more offenses or defendants tried together….The judge may declare a mistrial as to any charges upon which the jury cannot agree upon a verdict; provided, however, that the judge may first require the jury to return verdicts *on those charges upon which the jury can agree* and direct that such verdicts be received and recorded.
@@valhallawthank you for that information
How can the jurors decide on morals when the evidence says there was no vehicular accident? Thought the jurors were intelligent also.
Thanks. That's what I remember, too, but I'm about to cave & go rewatch & see. The initial form was ridiculous, and Ajax was correct in being pissed! She did so many improper things, in my opinion, during & before this trial & I got to the point it raised my blood pressure to listen to Lally or Bev any longer! Lally lies with such impunity, I swear I'm not sure I can sit thru another trial!! An officer is the court lying like a rug seems WAY out of line to me! He's supposed to state facts! But then, he's also supposed to fight for JUSTICE!! Not a win! All Lally cares about is winning, obviously. Still don't know Bev's goals. Supposedly, she wanted to sit on this trial so badly but then was so tired, took all sorts of time off... nothing makes sense in all of this! Hopefully, if nothing else, this motion by the defense will possibly get rid of her!! That would help a lot! 😂
Happy to hear you will be streaming Baldwin trial with Jay 💕 such a great collaboration 😁😁
Could the defense file a Rit to the higher court? this seems to be an extremely dire circumstance.
If the expectation is to always treat a gun as if it is loaded, it seems contradictory for actors to ever use guns on set, as they have to point them at others during filming!
Bam! Done! Less than 5 seconds.
They were required by the Court, if they hear of information to disregard, and notify the Court of any questionable..hmm? ❤️
Evidence shows no MVA, on SUV nor JOK. More consistent of being beat up. I think she does know she didnt hit him, because there is no evidence she hit him! How is this question being asked?
Judge rushed fast 💨 and to me never really gave a time anyone could ask anything!
Jackson knows how to write and submit his voice..now would be intimidation the jury supposed to be anonymous, the circus and confusion was designed by the defense, and they want leave of Court to go around statute(s) without a motion for defense counsel or jury members ❤️
Alli there was a new jury form which showed not guilty on charge 2
No..those three didn’t want to continue longer than 24 hours to convince, those jurors gave up..not the Court ❤️
We’re Deadlocked, we want to be heard…that did not happen! ❤️They Did Not notify the Court. It’d be wrong to harass them in open Court for the record? ❤️
I mean signing the mistrial by and through the several letters to the Judge ❤️
Supreme Court finds through your letters and freedom of speech..they can ask anything.
I discourage any bad treatment of the family. I encourage empathy we all process grief differently and sometimes people will unfortunately become angry at the wrong person as I believed happed here. I feel so sorry for the family because the police failed them tremendously with that pathetic excuse for an investigation and jen McCabes has lied to and manipulated them to bennifit herself and no they cant believe she is at fault in anyway without loosing another person they love. Its very sad but i still think what he said to her was a threat and he shouldn't have done it but we all know he's hurting because unfortunately "justice" as they see it will never happen and that is tragic.
Those jurors couldn’t convince the others their arguments for not guilty..didn’t land with all the others, they do not get a second chance to try to convince them or the Court? ❤️
Why is Coffindaffer so oddly obsessed with Karen Read and her legal team? It’s kinda creepy
Otherwise maybe he could’ve fooled them without his foolish behavior exposed? ❤️
Why wasn’t there 1 verdict sheet
I want to be as fair in my comment as possible. Either u both are to nieve or u trust judges and the government way to much. After the all that we seen at the end of this case to think the defense was aloud or missed an opportunity and that judge bev is on the up and up is beyond me
Need to make sure Bahb is fed before the next live 😂
The Court was not contacted after jury dismissed..The Prosecution was not contacted after jurors dismissed, the Court Administration was not contacted..Jackson failed in his representation in only in this late move. imo ❤️
Replay crew thanks Bob and Ali love you both!
When will you opine on the political lawfare??? Please. We need some legal analysis and I trust your hearts on upholding the constitution!!
Stay out of Massachusetts!
Was Nanuk playing with a rubber chicken somewhere in the house? Or do one of you two have a squeaky desk chair? 😂
HI love getting to watcha you too bad on the replay. Love the dynamic..
Read aloud..so no mistaking the verbiage and intent. ❤️
If it’s found she covered her tracks..would that be knowingly?
How many comments are you going to make? Jen?
Had jury not seen counsel with his arms all over the defendant, maybe they thought he knows she’s guilty and he’s trying to fool us? ❤️
Do you mean that picture in the restaurant? That's fake. It's been proven fake by several people and it just doesn't even look like them. The defence team had hotel rooms, do you really think they'd be handsy with each other in public when they know the world is watching them?
@@CW1971Pay no attention to that commenter, she dropped about 20 comments in here about Karen and her guilt. It quite possible be Jen!
@@kristenpino4635 yeah I noticed all her comments soon after and did leave snarky comment about spamming the comments but somehow it ended up under someone else's comment 🙈 I did apologise to the other person.
Good point that it's probably Jen 😂 .
Didn’t each juror sign something?
Can an individual juror send Bev a note?
Did they check not guilty?
Blaming the defense is inappropriate.
She’s telling her dad, and hiring a dui lawyer before John is found in the morning? The recording you can hear Karen clomping in the house to check her taillight, not running through the house looking for John or concerned for his kids, nope just in and out and that tape is gone with the kissing tape also…?
Did those three enter into jury under false and preconceived notions?
No thanks. Bye.
The only reasoning I can see for this motion now was if Bev knew where the jury stood and ignored it. It’s a nice try but I don’t see it going anywhere unless there is a conviction next trial. 27:59
On utube u tube loves to change the words
Melanie has it
Replay
Of course there was outside influence!!! There was a Pink Horde outside! There was an alternate Juror wearing a Pink Dress while jury was deliberating. Change of venue is a must in this case and a real accident reconstructionist. Take this case to Boston away from the Horde.
Did you miss the testimony of the two experts that were hired by the government testifying for the defense?… Or is trooper Paul your kind of “expert”?
Will you cover Turtledick's trial?? I surely hope so.
If I were a juror I’d sue, if you because of the Defense..brings me back in..that was John’s problem with Karen…she brings people into her psycho.
Auntie Beverage needs to go to the BEACH ⛱️🏖️