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This is why you NEED to consider switching over more actively and currently to Rumble. Your channel there hasn't been updated in months and there such censorship is completely non-existent.
I have commented before that Allie should have him on the show, after her (maternity leave) episode with Ken Ham. She should definitely have him on, now, after the book came out and his response.
Gavin gave a very good explanation, exposing the misrepresentation Megan did using him as an example of a shepherd for sale. He should have a chance to rebuke those accusations Megan made about him.
When Megan talked about how Christians should be able to openly discuss and disagree on non-gospel issues like climate change, covid, ect., but stand firm on foundational issues…that’s exactly what Gavin Ortlund does…like, that’s his MAIN thing. He was so wrongly maligned in this book. Rosaria Butterfield also called him out in her book, but at least that was just a footer! This was multiple pages of misrepresentation and misquoting a fellow non-woke believer.
Just listened to the end where she addressed the issue. Hearing that a fellow Christian felt extremely misrepresented by you shouldn’t elicit a laugh and a further accusation of them using a “tactic”. I know if the tables were turned and Gavin wronged someone in the same way, he would own up to it, apologize, and clarify, seeking unity… not whatever this is… ugh, feels wrong.
I’ll stay in my small town Baptist Church where the pastor’s preaching is all Biblically based and you can feel God’s grace and the love and community between the members.
I’m guessing the person is referring to the King James cult…I’m only recently learning about it myself, I’d heard of it historically but didn’t know it actually continues until today!…there are people who think different DOCTRINES are actually being taught by different translations of the Bible, isn’t that wild?!?
@@thatsmynamesowhat2949 don’t mind them, they’re an internet troll that loves to push the strawman argument about how many “different types” of Bibles there are. They’re willingly stuck on the “different translations equals different Bibles” train.
The only people I’m familiar with in this episode are Andy Stanley and Gavin Ortlund. I agree with what she says about Stanley, but her claims about Ortlund are extremely misleading if not inaccurate. I hope it was done in good faith, but the attacks against him are unwarranted.
Agreed. If you watch his video, he talks about how she selectively edits he sentences to make them fit her narrative. This detracts from what she talks about elsewhere especially since it is in the first chapter. IMHO, she owes Gavin Ortland an apology.
Megan, would you be willing to engage with Gavin Ortlund's response to your section on him in your book? His recent response video was very compelling that you may be bearing false witness in a number of your examples.
This was a premiere. She wasn't live here, but the point still stands. If this is just going to be Fox News, swallow the foie gras pipe, then no thanks.
Her treatment of Dr. Gavin Ortlund is just tragic and looks bad for her journalism. Anyone who knows or watches Dr. Ortlund will know that what she accused him of are just lies and misrepresentations.
@@pavelchodura4310 If you appreciated how Gavin is wrong about the science you wouldn’t make this accusation. if he was better informed he would fully understand why he is being criticized. his good theology is infected by bad science. And if that bad science didn’t force such harsh penalties and poor and vulnerable populations, we could just let Gavin be wrong. In charity, it is not an exaggeration to say that poor people have starved to death because of Gavin’s (and many many other’s) unwitting errors because those errors become public policies that harm the people they hope to help.
@@insiderinside1905 The critique of Gavin in the book is not based on that he has "bad science" but on his theological posture toward the issue. I believe that the description of his view, his posture and insistence on specific solutions is just plainly a caricature, far from the truth. I believe that if we want to critique someone, we should do it on the basis of what stances they actually hold. This was not a fair representation of Gavin but an obvious misrepresentation. He explained it really well in his two reaction videos. But I guess that his real view doesn't suit the author of the book as well as a false caricature of him. Christians should stand for truth and not give false testimony.
Megan seems to have a vendetta against Gavin at least since he made the original video 2 years ago. She went after him on X then, smeared him in an interview with Joel Webbon, went after him on X for his questioning YEC and a global flood, blocked him on X and now this book. Yet she's the victim here and Big Eva is out to get her. Gavin has a YT channel with 70k subs. Megan works for Daily Wire. Spare me the David and Goliath narrative. And now Not the Bee is lying about Gavin. This is gross Christians. Gavin is a faithful brother who has mentioned climate change once. His work defending Protestantism and theism is so helpful. Gavin wants unity, this is just a witch hunt.
I think this is a war on protestantism. Notice most of the people that are backing her or what a lot of people might consider far-right. Just take note. Like the Bible tells us. Take note of those who cause division
Gavin is wrong on climate. He minorly dipped his toe in ignorance. he should have left his echo chamber and read a counter opinion. or he should have stayed out of it if he was unwilling to get a reasonable position. Megan did a great job on showing how these global policies hurt the poor. Stop defending Gavin. he is wrong. He should apologize. He should get informed about how these policies are used as a cudgill against the poor nations to do things that harm them or risk losing aid money.
It's quite insane to me that people still speak about Andy Stanley as if he is a Christian. What does a guy have to do to or say to show he is a wolf in sheep's clothing? If he is not a false believer then the category shouldn't even exist. We as Christians can be so naive in this area and its embarrassing.
THANK YOU, A MILLION TIMES!!! It’s so annoying that he’s still being spoken about as a legitimate pastor. The man is an apostate and purposefully leading his sheep into the mouth of wolves as he slowly deconstructs their faith.
Megan did Dr. Gavin Ortlund soooo dirty. Simply lies. Allie, if this slander of Gavin isn’t addressed, anyone who promotes this book is unknowingly bearing false witness against a faithful brother in the faith. Have him on.
Have you ever listened to this guy? I will give a pass if you haven’t otherwise your theology is completely wrong I would doubt that you understand the Bible at all, if you’ve read it
So I’ve only listened to him a little, but she did selectively edit his sentences to fit her narrative. Regardless of how you feel about Mr. Ortland, that is bearing false witness.
@@OlgaSmirnova1 watch his entire video - she misrepresented and lied about what he said, his actual views, and what he called for from believers in church. It was dishonest. You are merely happy with the rest of her book and the "woke pastors" being called out, so you're willing to blindly believe everything she wrote.
Watch Gavin Ortland's response to Megan's write-up about him in her book. According to Gavin, she is being more than unfair. Any story sounds true until the other side is heard.
@@jaredhageman4986 I watched Gavin's response only but he does a pretty good job of showing her taking him out of context. Gavin is an accomplished guy and it is a shame when journalists abuse other's careers unjustly.
@bobthrasher8226 In your original post, you correctly stated that one side is true until the other is heard. Yet, you're rendering a verdict here having only heard one side. And we already know he was in error in some of his complaints.
@@jaredhageman4986 Can you document his error(s)? I would say, though, that I am not a "fan" of Gavin while I do believe from his YT chan he is a intelligent, decent, and fair-minded guy. I am also not a fan of the supposed fixes for "climate change" and remain unconvinced of the CO2 hypothesis. I further believe that too many ministers seem to be naive about a lot in culture.
57:32 “It was clearly not referring to him.” This is absolutely ridiculous. A summary of a chapter applies to the chapter. Ortlund is in the chapter. When you summarize what you’ve already said, then it applies back to what you’ve already said! That’s how English works. From here you have 2 options as a Christian 1) Repent of your lack of careful words 2) Repent of your deception in representing him
Nonsense. She was very clear in the book (have you actually read it?) that there is a wide range of people in the book, some of whom are sellouts and have taken money from Soros to promote leftwing ideologies that conflict with the Bible. Others have simply been too influenced by the culture and end up peddling those ideologies. For Ortlund's fans to argue that she must have intended him to be in the former category either represents: 1) Exceptionally poor reading comprehension 2) Didn't read the book at all 3) Dishonesty Which category do you fall into?
She says in the video that she did watch the response. A lot of people have. But I think most who have read the book and seen his response have concluded that Basham was not in error.
He wasn't "taken down," nor was he criticized because he said something about it at all. Did you actually read what Basham wrote in the book? Or are you a fan of Ortlund and are responding based solely on what he said in his video?
@@jaredhageman4986Gavin Ortland read it in his video. I'm not about to read an entire book of lies from a suspect individual who works for the far right outfit the daily wire just to get context for what they said about Gavin Orland in one chapter. Thank God I left fundamentalism behind.
In chapter 1 of the book, Basham misquotes and misrepresents Gavin Ortlund. This is unfortunate because her book does have an important message, but this instance of poor journalism will likely detract from that.
@michaelward1341 The one where she literally broke it up to say something he didn’t say. He said “if you disagree with the consensus, don’t shoot from the hip” which is a claim of methodology. We can’t just say “it’s a conspiracy!” without any evidence. Show the evidence. Be careful with your claims. That’s all he was saying. She broke up his quote to think that he meant it as a claim of conclusion. She broke it up to act as if he was saying “if you don’t agree with the consensus, then you’re just dumb.” That’s not what he said in the slightest. It was just wrong.
@@coltonmoore4572 but Gavin is shooting from the hip by endorsing a corrupt consensus to infect his theology. He should have stayed out of the matter all together. Since he’s arguing from a false premise he is making the wrong conclusion. Why is the burden not on him to know why the corrupt consensus becomes public policy that denies much needed relief money to poor countries, unless they comply with that corrupt concensus? Given that those policies cause starvation. Gavin is unwittingly causing harm even though he might be doing this in ignorance. if he wants to harm the poor he can keep protesting his innocence. if GAVIN was more careful in his claims he would not be guilty. on the other hand, Megan HAS documented these harms (ie citing Sri Lanka as an example) in presentations that Gavin hasn’t stepped outside his echo chamber to listen to. He is precisely guilty of what he has accused others of. And Megan has, in other places, done exactly the substantiation that Gavin has required.
@@BipolarDistortion his theological error is that he married bad science to his theology. that becomes a tragic orthopraxy that oppresses the global poor with starvation. Megan’s thesis that evangelical shifts are required to get the votes to make marxist changes to legislation is so prescient. that makes Christian leaders such a target. Marxists have already taken over entertainment and higher education and lower ed. Now they have turned their attention to seminaries and churches.
So Gavin Ortlund is using a "tactic?" What are you saying about a fellow member of the Body of Christ while snickering into your sleeve? Was he so important to be included in the book, but not so important to give the courtesy of a contact call/email? A topic for Book 2? Whatever happened to Dr. Dobson and how Focus on the Family came to adopt the Duluth Model.
It seems like you are upset? I will have to watch again to see what I missed. I am thankful she is exposing these people. I am sure she couldn’t go in to detail on every one.
@davidprice9792 go look at Gavin Ortlund's body of work. A developing Mike Winger. Expose? Let's expose her connections to the Daily Wire. "For Sale" central.
I've personally seen Megan confronting Gavin about climate change on Twitter back in the day. They exchanged dialogue multiple times, in the public eye. Gavin was very condescending during the exchange. Stop knee jerk defending him. He is a very small part of the book.
I'd like to know what "tactic" Gavin was using. If he was in error, spell it out. If he was not, apologize. Get to the bottom of it. Accusing him of chicanery is as bad as the original charge.
@@philipmurray9796 there is nothing "left leaning views on Genesis" about Gavin's view on Genesis. Since when is evolution or science "left-leaning". Have you ever heard evolution as a talking point of the left? No, it simply is not. what a weird thing to say. Also, the left does not own climate concern either.
Megan would you consider reaching out to Gavin Ortlund to clear up this unfortunate miscommunication? Im asking you simply bc you did write about his positions without reaching out to him beforehand. Please consider pursuing peace as much as you are able. For Jesus’ sake. God bless.
She did. The two have gone back and forth on X a couple of times. The reality is that he misinterpreted what she wrote and then accused her of dishonesty. As far as I know, he has yet to apologize or remove his video, even though he knows his criticisms of her were not true. He took words that she wrote about other people, insisted that she wrote them about him, then complained that it was mean of her to say those things about him. And in all of this, he ignored how unbelievably important this book is. Even if she was totally wrong in everything she said about him (she's not), it would still be the most important book written this century. Maybe instead of making it all about himself, Ortlund needs to recognize the overall importance of the book.
Megan out and out lied about Gavin Ortlund's beliefs and labeled him a traitor in the first chapter of this so called journalistic book. He is truly a Biblical scholar of the highest order and does not deserve this label. She needs to issue an apology to him.
If anyone thinks that Bashum was actually trying to approach Ortlund with charity, see her interview with Joel Webbon, where she firmly places him in the “liberal” category. See her old tweets about how she can’t imagine someone accepting climate change and not being a liberal. She puts politics at the forefront of her life and uses conservative politics as a litmus test for true faith
@@tiffanydaniel8996 What exactly is she supposed to apologize for? Can you give me the quote and the page number that she said something inaccurate or "mean?"
@@jaredhageman4986 In fact, after reading the relevant portions, I did more research on her and found her Joel Webbon interview and older tweets. She has CONSISTENTLY put right-wing issues over gospel issues. In what world does it make sense to call someone a liberal pastor for supporting climate change? This is political liberalism, not theological. Equating the two degrades the gospel. There are pastors with liberal political beliefs, but very conservative theological beliefs. Not on LG TV or abortion issues because those are theological issues. But on climate change? Absolutely. On social justice? Probably so (though not on identity politics or CRT). You can’t equate theological conservatism with political conservatism. They aren’t the same thing. She does. Have you seen the Joel Webbon interview I am talking about? Or are you just making a comment based on her own defense of her words?
Where did the live comments go? There was a call to address the Gavin Ortlund situation. He didn't deserve the 'sellout / traitorous' label you attached to him in your book, Megan. It is arguably much more progressive for a woman to instruct the entirety of the body of Christ than to say anything Gavin has said.
Allie, I watched your response to the Gavin Ortlund video concerning his part in Megan’s book. I am confused why he is even in the book and your response. By the way, I totally disagree with Ortlund’s position on climate change. But he is on the frontline and is one of the most outspoken defenders of Protestantism, pushing back on Catholic doctrine, debating atheist on slavery, and defending the core principles of Scripture! Very Orthodox! Talk about shooting a soldier in the back on battlefield. As a believer that likes your channel, I hope no one does that to you!
@@Doug-jf5hx Gavin does a much better job of defending Protestantism against Roman Catholic polemics than Stuckie did in her debate against Candace Owens' husband.
If Gavin is very Othodox then he should have no problem acknowledging and correcting his mistakes (everyone makes mistakes). But instead he making himself out to be a victim. If you are a minister of God, be ready to have a defense of that which you preach
@@smt0202let me know where Gavin has committed his error! The Apostles creed, Nicene creed, Athanasian creed or the Westminster confession. Let’s make sure he changes his position in something Biblical not political. I look forward to your response.
You can’t call out Gavin Ortlund in a book like this which clearly includes him early in in the book as an example of a “shepherd for sale” and then insinuate that he’s being too sensitive. This is bearing false testimony, and she owes him an apology and needs to publicly retract these statements.
@@jaredhageman4986 If you include criticism of someone in a book titled "Shepherds for sale," then unless you say otherwise you are calling that person a Shepherd for sale.
Did you actually read the book, the whole chapter? Please read it and then if you still think so then you can say that Megan Basham actually misrepresented Gavin Ortlund. I think Gavin Ortlund is doing the very thing he accuses Megan Basham of doing, the whole idea of misrepresenting people.
As christians we should be make clear that the gospel should not be polluted by contemporary social politics either right or left…the pure and unadulterated gospel should be elevated and if it so happens to align with any political view, either left or right, then that should be a coincidence not an objective! Trying to align the church and its message to any political agenda is abhorrent!
So we're supposed to socially regress as a society 2,000 years ago into the biblical past? It's ridiculous to blame social progress and cultural diversity for the moral decline of America. Evangelicals and conservatives are too obsessed with the transgender issue, abortion, and Trump.
this is difficult because it says that Jesus can not redeem politics. But Jesus can! America was founded in such a way that the church is the conscience required first self rule. Megan’s work shows that the burying our head in the sand is not viable because congregations are vulnerable ti the zeitgeist. Every generation has their unique and common challenges to decipleship that churches must face. Had the church dealt with these issues when they were small we’d be in an easier place now.
01:01:08 Megan ecouraging christians to think biblically about these issues (climate change, etc.) IS THE SAME THING brother Gavin said in his video, christians need to THINK MORE about these issues (climate change). But Megan just went and falslly represented brother Gavin. She should correct that, for truth's sake.
As a follower of Christ who so happens to be black we left our “church” who started these types of guilting of our white brothers and sisters. I find it disgusting. No one born in the US and has lived here has ever been a slave and no white person has been a slave owner. We should not be putting this separation between anyone. We are Christians, one race…. Absolutely disgusting.
Gavin Ortlund needs to understand why he is being criticized. it would take so little to understand since he already embraces Augustine’s proportionality. With considering how his error on climate is a massive harm on public policy that affect the poor directly, he will not understand how he is in the wrong.
@@insiderinside1905 her claims against him aren't about his views on climate science. This has been addressed, in particular to you making this comment, at least four or five times in responses directly to you.
@insiderinside1905 The question is not whether or not he was right on climate change. The question is whether he is someone who is infiltrating the church with left-wing ideology by making climate change a matter of gospel truth. The answer unequivocally is no, he is not. She misrepresents him blatanty and profoundly, to make it sound like he makes agreeing with the climate change consensus a litmus test for lwhether you love your neighbor, when, in fact, what he says is that, given the scientific consensus, we are failing to love our neighbor if we do not take the climate change question seriously enough to look into it substantively. I'll admit that neither I nor most people I know have looked into it substantively. And he rightly suggests the reason, which is that the climate change agenda is associated with the political and cultural left in America in this particular time in history. I, for one, can listen to his video without getting offended and blowing his words out of proportion, even though I find it rubs me a little bit the wrong way. Likely this is because I'm already familiar with his teaching style, and he talks the same way when he's explaining obscure points of church history and theological debate - like that the canons of the second council of Nicea against iconoclasm disprove the infallibility of Church dogma.
I was a supporter of Focus on the family as far back when Dr Dobson was there and continued until Jim Daly made His employees get the vaccination and did a foreword in Andy Stanley’s book. I did call focus on the family and told them why I was stopping my donations and the girl who answered was gracious and kind but he never responded- very disappointed. Dr Dobson now has Family talk and is still unwavering Christian- solid in the word.
Didn't know that about FoF... It is a shame the vilification and other harms against those who refused the vax. Not saying FoF is doing that but we need all hands on deck to push back against this stuff.
I stopped supporting Focus on the family because of their push to persuade listeners to accept c o v i d jabs. I have never heard an appology from them.
55:00 Megan was being dishonest about Ortlund. AND, I might add Ken Ham made 7, 24-hour day creation and Noah's Ark and a global flood literally, with no room for discussion A SALVATION ISSUE. Allie didn't push back. It was probably my least favorite episode, and i wasn't alone, based on the comments.
ThankYou Ladies! This is such an informative discussion. I’m learning so much beyond what I’ve heard and seen from my own search. Our local churches have been majorly affected by the racial-political influences. A part of me wants to yell..” please…Church…Stop this madness!” And the other part of me wants to step back..and wait until this woke generation of church goers learn by doing. It’s fairly obvious they are not always wise learners.
@@pete3261what are the guidelines that say you can’t show a clip of something if you leave all the logos and stuff on it showing the original source? Not sarcasm, seriously asking.
UA-cam has been taking down that everywhere. Every UA-cam posting it gets it removed. They can't allow the trans narrative to look bad. @@amandasmith5081
@@amandasmith5081 The IOC has always been extremely intolerant of the use of their current content during an Olympic year, and on top of that, UA-cam has become extremely and unjustly intolerant of things indiscriminately deemed “violence” as well as censoring the use of certain words in youtube content. UA-cam often demonitizes videos for what they willy-nilly claim is a violation.
Allie Beth, please Gavin Ortlund’s response to her erroneous comments about him in her book. Poor journalism. I’m concerned when I see PR tours like this that the content creators don’t have the staff to read and properly vet these books like they should be especially when calling out other people. We need to be more careful. While Megan brings a lot of good points she has sprinkled in lies.
I think she (Megan) is glossing over the association she implied by naming and using Gavin as an example in a book titled "Shepherds for sell". That alone is just low.
@@queenofprops I doubt any of these people attacking Megan have even laid hands on her book. The fact is Gavin, in his response, sends the listener to his video where he is clearly pushing a Marxists environmental viewpoint. Of coarse he will deny that.
@@queenofprops, yeah, that’s not accurate either. She said specific things about his views that were not accurate. Namely, that his easygoing posture was misleading and that he makes climate change conclusions to be gospel issues. She has good criticisms of others (Stanley), but poor vetting on Gavin Ortlund definitely makes her look unreliable. And given his good reputation, she should have reached out to him first.
Megan Basham: We shouldn’t elevate climate change to a gospel issue! Dr. Gavin Ortlund: Ok. I disagree with you on climate change. I think we should do something about it and be good stewards of the earth. But we can have different opinions on it. Basham: LIBERAL!!!!!!!!! I’m going to use you as an example in my book about sold out pastors and wolves in sheep’s clothing Ortlund: …
I mad at you Colton. Because you came up with this framing and not me. I laughed out loud. But Yeah that is an accurate description what she did and it is shameful.
Beckett Cook recently interviewed Patti Hight. Both were formerly LGBT - both came to Christ and the Holy Spirit drew them. Not sure why the church feels the need to embrace and twist themselves into pretzels to make it 'OK." Part of the current "feel good gospel" zeitgeist, but God stands alone and draws people to Himself without our help and promoting things that are a distortion of his Word.
No one is ‘formerly LGBT’. They just stopped publicly identifying as gay, but Beckett is still a single man so there’s no actual proof of his sexuality changing. Nice try, though.
Much gratitude to you my dear Christian sisters in Christ, boldly proclaiming the Word of God in our extremely treacherous and compromised, so called Progressive churches. Amen❤
Nonsense. She makes it abundantly clear throughout the book that not everyone in it is a "shepherd for sale." Did you read the book? Or are you responding to something you know little about?
@@jaredhageman4986don't be naive. Anyone who knows Gavin and his ministry knows his name should not appear in a book with that title. Megan obviously did not do good research here and yes, she did misrepresent him.
@@Butlerfamilyoutdoors Can you please show me what she said that represented him? Also, she mentioned a lot of people in the book who are clearly not "Shepherds for Sale," including John MacArthur. Why do you think that description must have been meant for Ortlund when she's extremely clear that it doesn't apply to everyone in the book?
@jaredhageman4986 Gavin very carefully shows the misrepresentation in his video just watch it. Plus, how would you like to be included in and misrepresented in the first chapter of a book with that title? Also, the way she talks about Gavin would lead anyone to believe she was including him.
@@Butlerfamilyoutdoors The problem with that argument is that I read the book and I watched his original video. If anything, she went very easy on him. He deserved a much harsher criticism for pushing "climate science" in the name of Christianity. If I had been an Ortlund fan prior, I would have walked away when he cited "love your neighbor" as a reason to promote climate change. That's such a massive red flag. He is someone who ought to be avoided. Also, did you know that he and Russel Moore are on staff at the same church? Moore, in case you aren't familiar, has been one of the biggest villains in the evangelical world. The connection between Moore and Ortlund seems likely to be relevant in all of this. Perhaps they want us all talking about what the book said of Ortlund, rather than Moore.
Ordered the book and staying up late to dive right in. It struck me that Megan mentioned CCCU, specifically APU and Biola. It made immediate sense to me what was happening on these campuses that they have begun to lose their focus on Biblical truth and in APU's case, God First. As an alumni of APU and a professor at Christian universities, it made me really sad to see campuses losing their way and not really understanding how this was happening. I hope this book helps to shed light and provide an avenue to help change the direction that so many Christians universities are heading. I firmly believed that the Christian university was the last bastion of true education as we watched liberal universities losing their way educationally, only then to watch my beloved California Christian colleges doing the same.
@@lorrytrujilloperezphd You know, in my country, there is also a university named APU. Asia Pacific University. That's why I was confused. Go look it up.
This conversation says everything -- and not about what it thinks -- i.e., "leftward drift", It reflects the influence of secularized reductionism that's now seeped into the Kingdom. Also, is "Big Eva" the counterpart to "Alt Eva?" You know, since we're freely appropriating secular pejoratives to divide and conquer the brethren.
I've been a focus on the family listener since my kids were in grade school many years ago. Focus on the family had Francis Collins on their podcast when the pandemic first started. I'm assuming they didn't know the things that you're bringing to light right now. I pray that that is the case.
Defeats the whole purpose to be oftening terms and re wording when its the Word that sanctifies. We need to be welcoming to the community so they aren't "scared of the Church" but then speak and preach Scriptures authentically bc that's how we are sanctified. Can't be washed by the Word if its diluted
In another podcast with Webbon, Megan claimed that "Gavin encouraged Christians to consider climate change, which set off alarm bells' in her head. Oh Really? And encouragement to just look at and consider the subject set off alarm bells? Maybe we should just become Catholic and let the Magisterium tell us what is true and right.
I grew up in the United Methodist church. It was always liberal, back in the 1980s, but we stayed to try and inject truth wherever possible - God used my precious Mother to tell a lot of people about Jesus. About Bible study. She was my very best Bible teacher too. We would leave, exhausted and needing to be fed but so often would get a phone call, asking me or more often my Mom to come teach adult Sunday School. My Mom has Alzheimer's now, i watched a Sunday service during covid & it was. ... physically dark. The pastor was my best friend as a child, and she was holding up the Alcoholics Anonymous book, telling the congregation that this book "is as useful for teaching as the Bible". I was not welcome to visit because i didn't want to be in a Pride parade. My heart hurts constantly for that church. I prayed to ask Jesus into my heart there! We had great Bible based Children's Church back in the 1970s.
I love the UMC. My dad was an ordained pastor in the UMC. It breaks my heart how the denomination has turned out. I'm praying for it. John wesley would be appalled at what happened 😢😢
This exact topic is why I left one of the largest churches in my city. As soon as I saw the woke hivemind start creeping in, then they invited a prominent speaker on this topic to host a conference there that affirms this sin, I was so sad but knew it was Yahweh leading me through to the truth. I'm now at a biblically sound, gospel affirming church and it's all because of my Savior answering my prayers for true fellowship with true believers. So thankful that this topic is being talked about and parsed apart to make it clear how easy it's slipping into churches.
The issue of shepherds for sale isn't just political. Often churches tolerate divorce and immorality and have little church discipline. There are very loose membership standards. There are no basic rules like requiring members to install anti-porn software on all devices or avoid going to bars and getting drunk. Years ago evangelical churches had behavioral and modest dress standards based on scriptures. Today the churches have very little control over member's behavior.
In Hebrews it says to obey your leaders because they watch over our souls. If a leader warns the church members to avoid certain situations, in good faith, then it's a good idea to realize he sees risks and thus accept his wisdom. Hanging where there is drunkenness and immorality sets a bad example for others, even if you don't abuse alcohol or hook up with women at the bar. At my church we insist that everyone have Covenant Eyes or similar porn blocking software on every device and to keep the computer and phone where others in the family can see what you're up to. This policy has helped many men avoid porn addiction. I accept advice from wise leaders and elders. It's very foolish not to listen. After all, we are told to flee temptation and that bad companions ruin good morals.
Alle, thank you for having her on. I am one of the few commenters who listened to Gavin's presentation and defense and read Megan's book. She is absolutely correct in her assessment of Gavin. You would think she dedicated a whole chapter to him, but his name only appears on a few pages. Now, Danny Aiken and Jonathon Moo are another story. The way she is attacked by these commenters tells me she is on to something.
Allie, please consider inviting Gavin Ortlund. He is a biblically solid baptist, whose teaching is incredibly theologically rich and edifying. On top of that, he offers teaching defending Protestantism from church history, to a level that I have not been able to find in any other teacher. He is a huge blessing, and I would love to see his name cleared.
Pray for Florida. There's two votes on the ballot this november. Amendment 3 and amendment 4. Amendement 3 will allow marijuana in the state and Amendment 4 will codify abortion access here. Please pray that neither pass in spite of their high support and Christians in Florida, if you really care about this please go out and vote!
Thank you for this video. I learned a lot. Wish you had been more specific regarding the Gavin Ortlund claims! Perhaps Megan could discuss them with him here face to face.
When promoting a book, is it common to only speak to people who won’t push back against any part of it? It seems like this author has been strategic in choosing podcasts to promote her book, and as a result, I haven’t seen anyone challenge the assumptions she's making. Is this intentional?
I don't know about books, but in general I think it's common to ignore detractors. There have been a lot of calls for more interaction between many of the people Megan mentions in the book (Russel Moore, TGC, etc) and their detractors. The best we get is TGC publishing a stupid article then deleting it without comment if there is backlash. I think Megan is wrong in a lot of the way she is handling it, but it's not unique I don't think.
Brother, I wish we lived in an age of journalism. Unfortunately, we all have the tendency to build our base and platform. It seems that is what is happening here. And what’s even more unfortunate is that our reactions will potentially just help her do just that
I think if it's a public statement thats pretty clear, there's no reason to reach out to. I'm not sure why any journalist would reach out to people unless they need clarification. I've watched Gavin's whole video and I have to say his stance is very clear, so I'm not sure why he feels like he's being misrepresented.
@@testingbruin he’s being included in conversations with people who really should be criticized. A man who is essentially making the argument that Christians should care for God’s world isn’t the same as one who is denying the infallibility of Scripture! How is this even a conversation?!
@Guerry78 I think Megan Basham used Gavin Ortlund as an example reasonably in the book in the way she describes her opinion of the issue with climate change. Just because he's in the book is not an issue if you read things in context. Are people offended just because he was used reasonably as an example in the book for illustrating some points in chapter 1?
@@testingbruin I think folks who are frustrated with the situation totally disagree with your position that she used Orlund as a “reasonable” example. The fact that she says people are reading it too literally and that she wasn’t lumping Ortlund into the same camp as the others mentioned-on the same page mind you-shows that she also doesn’t quite think he was a reasonable example. The truth is, she didn’t do her due diligence when she wrote the book. She wasn’t aware that Gavin was the opposite of who she was criticizing.
Megan Basham is a gift to the body of Christ and the world. As a Black man, I am saddened by so many Black people in Christendom who consistently support the darkness of the Anti-GOD, Anti-Jesus, anti-moral absolutes practices of the Democratic party. 😢
This idea that she just uses Gavin Ortlund as an example and that she is not misrepresenting him is very false. She takes two words from a quote and completely misapplies them to make it seem like he says something he is not.
My husband and I left our church due to being called privileged for being white, being soft on the trangender issue, and the final straw was apologizing to those who don't identify as prolife when Roe vs Wade was overturned. We had been going there for almost 20 years.
@@bluecomb5376 I was raised Catholic. I have family and friends that are Catholic and agree with most of their teachings. Since leaving, I have been Baptist, Lutheran (almost 20 years) and now non-denominational but none of their worship services came close to the Catholic mass.
Such an educational and welcome conversation! Imagine my shock at being chastised by my Sunday school class for refusing to use preferred pronouns 😮 You have given me some respectful ways to address these issues. Thank you both.
@@jaredhageman4986 in another podcast Megan says "Gavin thinks Climate change is something Christians should think about and that set off alarm bells" in her mind Really. And encouragement to think set off alarm bells. Might as well join the CAtholic church and have the Magisterium tell you what to think.
@@DPK5201 That makes no sense whatsoever. I just watched Ortlund's video on climate change. To be honest, Basham went very easy on him. His video completely discredits him as a serious thinker or theologian. The wild part is that he hasn't even deleted the video, even while he complains about Basham exposing it.
I started attending a.Methodist church in 2015. It has since gone woke. I was told that homosexuality is not a sin, yesterday. Our new pastor is a biological female married to a trans "woman".
Satan has infiltrated many denominations. Mainline Protestants churches have gone WOKE. Most of these denominations have embraced the secular culture. 😢
@@alenaramirez111 Most Mainline Churches have become WOKE. Many of the Mainline Protestant denominations such as the Episcopal Church USA, ordain openly gay or lesbian clergy members. My husband was an Episcopal Priest for almost 20 years. We left the Episcopal Church in 2012. We are Catholic Converts now. I hope that this comment isn't deleted.
It's such a good conversation this video presents. One is finally starting to understand why there is so much chaos happening in conservative politics. This explains everything!
It will be interesting to see how many also buy Gavin's new book out later this month and available for pre-sale: What it Means to be Protestant. Consistent with his defense of the historic Protestant doctrines vs..Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Your topic is very but sadly accurate. Many christian churches and Christian people have bought into this secular nonsense. In my past people would often invite you to their church. I own and operate a store based on southern and confederate heritage. Both are honorable with the south having always been the biblical anchor of our nation! However I never once since opening my story in 2015 been invited to a church. I display the Christian flag out front of my store and am born again bible believing Southern Baptist. After seeing your video now I understand why. Actually sent a donation to a local church in the mail as a test. They didn't cash the check nor did I get an invitation to the church. I do share my faith with my customers, customers that come from every state in America and 35 foreign countries. Thank you for a very thoughtful and informative video. Dixie General Store Heflin Alabama
Megan Basham lied and horribly misrepresented Gavin Ortlund in her book, just fyi. It’s pretty much on the level of slander. Imagine roping Ortlund with the likes of Andy Stanley. Insane.
Out of a desire for truth, justice, & acting in Christian charity, Megan needs to be called out for the lies & distortions she has made against Gavin Ortlund.
I want to go out there and say please please invite Fr Josiah Trenham to your podcast. He is an Orthodox Christian. I know it would be hard to go outside of your family to follow the Orthodox, but please consider......
Yes! Great suggestion! ☦ Fr. Josiah Trenham is gentle and loving but doesn't mince words and the conversation would be worthwhile. His website is Patristic Nectar Publications and his YT channel is Patristic Nectar. ☦
So, Allie did bring the Gavin situation up to Megan and was fair enough to lay out his and his audience's concerns. And to be fair to Megan, after watching his full original video, his suggestion that Christians should be in some kind of leadership role on climate change is questionable. Now, on the use of pollutants, toxins, throw away plastics, the indiscriminate use of pesticides and herbicides- etc. I could more readily support Christians advocating this from a stewardship perspective. All of that said, Gavin, at his heart, is a dutiful researcher, and the bleak picture painted by many in the scientific community can be scary. But based on the one video. which I have now watched, I'm not sure labeling him as a sellout in her book, or Progressive, as she did in a UA-cam video a couple of years ago, was really appropriate. Too much talking and too much theology leads to too little action and a lot of squabbling. I think alot of us are guilty of that.
It’s one thing to say “well, not everyone in the book is a ‘Shepherd for Sale’” like Gavin Ortlund. But that is the title of your book, so it most definitely gives that impression. And your summary was a summary of the section that Gavin was in, but somehow you didn’t intend to include Gavin as part of the summary? I think Gavin could have done a better job with the video in presenting both sides on CC, but Basham could have either clarified that GO is not a shepherd for sale, or quoted him more accurately.
I enjoy listening to both Allie and Megan. I would love to see either one of you address the Orange Curriculum. This curriculum is on so many churches and it is for children. It worries me that it is watering down the gospel. It seems to be very progressive.
Allie, I LOVE your show and have listened for years but this interview and book are incredibly misleading and takes up a mantel where it shouldn’t be. Megan at 27:16 says that these topics should be debatable and yet writes EXTENSIVELY against Gavin Ortlund (another golden theological leader) for saying exactly this. She is attacking a fellow Christian is a dishonest way. She has lost my trust completely and I would love for you to have Gavin on the show. This is so sad and Megan is baring false witness to *ironically* make more money off her book….
I’ve been an evangelical since the early 2000s and I’ve never heard of this Ortlund guy. He’s being defended as though he’s an Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kathryn Kuhlman etc. Or our modern day Kent Christmas, Julie Green, Hank Kunneman etc. Since 2020 I’ve watched a lot of preachers and prophets and not once have I ever heard him mentioned. Either he has a very aggressive following that’s bombarding the comments or he fell through the cracks. Gonna have to do a deep dive. P.s. Any Elijah Stream followers? Why hasn’t he ever been mentioned?
Why does she owe him an apology? He got caught red-handed using his ministry to promote a political issue. As far as I know, the video he posted promoting that political ideology is still up. Was it wrong of her to tell the truth? Is he above criticism?
@jaredhageman4986 he didn't say Christianity meant you had to support a particular piece of legislation, just that Christianity should be able to weigh in. And Megan herself admits in the book that the church should be able to have those discussions. Christianity has much to say about how we should live. She then illustrates this further in her use of scripture to support the pro-life movement. While I'm not equating these two issues of equal importance, it shows that often scripture does give us insights on how to live. It doesn't make it legalism unless you're claiming your own righteousness will let you enter the kingdom of heaven. In her book, she selectively chooses when to start from theological premises and when to start from political premises. The book is very inconsistent, which only serves to undermine an otherwise important message.
@@lasshrugged I did not say that he argued you had to support a particular piece of legislation. But it's hard to watch his video and conclude that he just wants Christians to talk about it and not take any political action. Do you really think that's what he has in mind? If climate change is an important issue with massive consequences (as he argues), then aren't Christians obligated to do something and not just sit around talking? And I would apply that standard consistently. If I were to make a video on abortion, I would not conclude by saying that Christians just need to talk about it more. No, I would say that Christians should find ways to stand up for the unborn, whether it's voting for pro-life candidates, writing to politicians to encourage pro-life legislation, volunteering at or donating to crisis pregnancy centers, etc. It requires a call to action. Ortlund is deliberately being slippery in avoiding any specific calls to action. That's a strike against him, not something to defend him on.
@jaredhageman4986 I'm not saying he is saying you shouldn't take action. Rather that the church should not avoid the topic and cede the ground completely to the left, that is how we get those authoritarian leftist policies. Rather, Megan is the one being inconsistent. She seems to be saying it's okay to advocate for pro-life policy, but any concern for the environment means you are motivated by the authoritarian left instead of trying to follow how God would have you live. She is starting from a position of what political positions she agrees with and then saying it's okay to use your religion to support it, but not for political positions she doesn't agree with.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke: "Three of these things belong together. Three of these things are kind of the same." John: "But one of these things is doing his own thing." What game were they playing with those QR codes?
I appreciate your show. I ask this sincerely and respectfully, Would you consider researching whether any political money from the Right has influenced pastors or sponsored curriculums that more conservative churches may use? I've listened to right leaning pastors before that gave me that same funny feeling or "alarm bells" of discernment you described. Also, the legalist mindset you both mentioned where pastors who have compromised on the left make a political position into a judgement on whether or not you're a "good Christian." I've seen this happen in right leaning churches where a republican position or a fox news opinion, etc becomes on par with the Bible within a church culture. Again, I ask this sincerely and respectfully. I think you both have a gift of being able to articulate things and think it could be helpful if you take the principles discussed in this podcast and apply them without partiality perhaps in a separate podcast (or book 😊). I understand that this was an interview about a book, so I don't fault you at all for not "balancing" things out. I'm just genuinely curious what pastors or ministries may have sold out for right wing politics or if there are any curriculums with that influence we should be aware of. (For maybe a tangent example, even in the homeschool community, you may hear someone caution, "that curriculum is very 'God and country' which I think has been a helpful caution bc the "Christian" curriculum can twist the Bible to out of context or rewrite American history in ways to seem more distinctly Christian than it was at times as a whole -- but the Bible didn't do that with Israel's messy history, so we don't need to do that with American history. Honest histories highlight the glory of the Gospel, and that God is the Hero and the Holy One who is merciful and mighty to save sinners. I've met people who I think are true Christians who were raised with a combination of these curriculums or ideas that merge specific political beliefs very closely with Christianity to the risk of that person becoming legalitic in the other direction. Ones I've met misunderstand the Gospel because of the political messages tangled into their convictions, that were reinforcd through their church and their homeschool. I'm concerned that many can't discern that right wing type of error, especially in the culture war where we know so many lies are coming from the left. I'm in agreement with you both and want to keep warning about those dangers, but I see Christians suseptible to a reciprocal danger if not alert and discerning.
Allie, if you really want to help clear up the confusion i suggest you have Gavin Ortlund on your program. Any valuable messages contained in Megan's book (which there are in my opinion) are stained by her misrepresentation and virtual slander of Ortland. We desperately need intellectual and personal humility in these types of discussion.
Hey I’ve recently came across a video on UA-cam about two missionaries husband and wife. Traveling all the way to central Africa to reach these tribes called pygmies. I thought the video was so inspirational that I thought why not share it through the comment section. I believe this video will inspire us to share the gospel more often. It’s called. UNREACHED- A families mission to reach the pygmies 4k full movie 2023. Hope you like it and fill you with joy as it did me.
Her little fake laugh at 56:54 to deflect…wow, it’s unfortunate. It degrades my ability to respect her and take seriously the rest of what she says when she’s defending her misrepresentation instead of repenting. It’s not that hard, Megan!
No religion can save you or offer salvation. Only a personal relationship with Jesus can. It's all about change. Change of heart, mind, body and soul. If there's no change there's no Christ. Too many are using Christian as a description. Make straight the way in your hearts for Jesus and love Him first over everyone and everyting. Be a Christ-In.
Much of Megan’s concerns are legitimate. The leftward drift of evangelism is clear and she does a really good job explaining that. However, she can tend to misrepresent those she disagrees with in the worst light possible. Gavin Ortlund is a case in point. That guy is probably the most fair and clear-minded theologian on UA-cam. He is clear on every core historic Christian doctrine. And on controversial issues he extends the most charity and always tries to give in-depth historical and theological context while remaining faithful to Scripture. I truly don’t understand the attacks against Gavin. It’s very disingenuous and it hurts the credibility of Megan as a journalist and author.
Hey everyone! We're sorry for the censored boxing video - many UA-cam videos showing any content from the Olympics are getting flagged. Very annoying! Check out the link in the description to see the clip we're referring to.
This is why you NEED to consider switching over more actively and currently to Rumble. Your channel there hasn't been updated in months and there such censorship is completely non-existent.
when are you guys going to have the ladies from Shealogians? You all would have such a killer chat.
Yes. It's a little annoying l...
just found you and subbed .. thank you for you content ♥♥
Absurd! They want to silence Christian voices!
Allie, please consider inviting Dr. Gavin Ortlund of TruthUnites on the show. I think it would be a productive and fair discussion.
I have commented before that Allie should have him on the show, after her (maternity leave) episode with Ken Ham. She should definitely have him on, now, after the book came out and his response.
I thought Ortlund's response to Basham's writing of his views in her book was also worth listening to.
@@LongingforaerwiarI watched it just before this and I agree
She had Ken Ham on?!? That is TOO FAR! I was disgusted enough by her being Papa (Pope) Johnny Mac King of Christianity on…
Gavin gave a very good explanation, exposing the misrepresentation Megan did using him as an example of a shepherd for sale. He should have a chance to rebuke those accusations Megan made about him.
When Megan talked about how Christians should be able to openly discuss and disagree on non-gospel issues like climate change, covid, ect., but stand firm on foundational issues…that’s exactly what Gavin Ortlund does…like, that’s his MAIN thing. He was so wrongly maligned in this book. Rosaria Butterfield also called him out in her book, but at least that was just a footer! This was multiple pages of misrepresentation and misquoting a fellow non-woke believer.
Just listened to the end where she addressed the issue. Hearing that a fellow Christian felt extremely misrepresented by you shouldn’t elicit a laugh and a further accusation of them using a “tactic”. I know if the tables were turned and Gavin wronged someone in the same way, he would own up to it, apologize, and clarify, seeking unity… not whatever this is… ugh, feels wrong.
@@HeatherShelton-yq1ildoes it annoy you when people point to the bible and say we don't need to take care of the earth because God said so?
@EnumaElish200 actually God gave us dominion - stewardship - and we've done a poor job.
Huh? My comment was about mischaracterization, not anything about taking care of the earth.
Did you read the book? Or are you an Ortlund fan and you're criticizing Basham based on the video Ortlund released on the subject?
I’ll stay in my small town Baptist Church where the pastor’s preaching is all Biblically based and you can feel God’s grace and the love and community between the members.
@Longeno55 very good point!
Which version of the bible do they base it on?
@@EnumaElish200what does that question even mean?
I’m guessing the person is referring to the King James cult…I’m only recently learning about it myself, I’d heard of it historically but didn’t know it actually continues until today!…there are people who think different DOCTRINES are actually being taught by different translations of the Bible, isn’t that wild?!?
@@thatsmynamesowhat2949 don’t mind them, they’re an internet troll that loves to push the strawman argument about how many “different types” of Bibles there are. They’re willingly stuck on the “different translations equals different Bibles” train.
The only people I’m familiar with in this episode are Andy Stanley and Gavin Ortlund. I agree with what she says about Stanley, but her claims about Ortlund are extremely misleading if not inaccurate. I hope it was done in good faith, but the attacks against him are unwarranted.
Agreed. If you watch his video, he talks about how she selectively edits he sentences to make them fit her narrative. This detracts from what she talks about elsewhere especially since it is in the first chapter. IMHO, she owes Gavin Ortland an apology.
Absolutely agree and I wish Allie had challenged her on that.
Yeah, she did lie about Gavin. She might not have meant to, but she did. She lied about him and seemed to say he was another Shepard for sale.
Did you not watch the entire video?
@@thisisdirk Yes, she responded to his complaint, and clarified what was meant.
Andy Stanley is a heretic, what shame he is to his father's legacy
I loved Charles Stanley!
Shame on his church for letting him stay.
@@beccaO0906😢Me too
@@scapps8173 Have you heard of "people with itching ears "
How did he get this way? 😢
Megan, would you be willing to engage with Gavin Ortlund's response to your section on him in your book? His recent response video was very compelling that you may be bearing false witness in a number of your examples.
I brought this up in a superchat. We'll see how they address it and if they address it.
This was a premiere. She wasn't live here, but the point still stands.
If this is just going to be Fox News, swallow the foie gras pipe, then no thanks.
@@thecatalysm5658 I wonder if Ms. Basham has ever studied Focus on the Family and their adoption of the Duluth Model?
She won't. She's had it out for Gavin for a while now. She's doubled down and has no remorse for what she's done. She did nothing wrong in her mind.
@keepclimbing2015 he got singled out for political heterodoxy, not doctrinal heterodoxy.
Her treatment of Dr. Gavin Ortlund is just tragic and looks bad for her journalism. Anyone who knows or watches Dr. Ortlund will know that what she accused him of are just lies and misrepresentations.
@@pavelchodura4310 If you appreciated how Gavin is wrong about the science you wouldn’t make this accusation. if he was better informed he would fully understand why he is being criticized. his good theology is infected by bad science. And if that bad science didn’t force such harsh penalties and poor and vulnerable populations, we could just let Gavin be wrong. In charity, it is not an exaggeration to say that poor people have starved to death because of Gavin’s (and many many other’s) unwitting errors because those errors become public policies that harm the people they hope to help.
@@insiderinside1905 The critique of Gavin in the book is not based on that he has "bad science" but on his theological posture toward the issue. I believe that the description of his view, his posture and insistence on specific solutions is just plainly a caricature, far from the truth. I believe that if we want to critique someone, we should do it on the basis of what stances they actually hold. This was not a fair representation of Gavin but an obvious misrepresentation. He explained it really well in his two reaction videos. But I guess that his real view doesn't suit the author of the book as well as a false caricature of him. Christians should stand for truth and not give false testimony.
@@insiderinside1905 people have pointed out the flaw in your logic a couple times now. You're misrepresenting the issue.
@@pavelchodura4310what exactly did Megan misrepresent about Gavin?
Agreed, she actually summarized his position based on his actual recordings reasonably. Gavin's response actually makes less sense.
Her book massively misrepresented Dr. Gavin Ortlund. To an egregious degree.
Watch his response
@michaelward1341he’s not a leftist sellout he’s the last Christian to be worrying about when it comes to leftist evangelicals
Megan seems to have a vendetta against Gavin at least since he made the original video 2 years ago. She went after him on X then, smeared him in an interview with Joel Webbon, went after him on X for his questioning YEC and a global flood, blocked him on X and now this book. Yet she's the victim here and Big Eva is out to get her. Gavin has a YT channel with 70k subs. Megan works for Daily Wire. Spare me the David and Goliath narrative. And now Not the Bee is lying about Gavin. This is gross Christians. Gavin is a faithful brother who has mentioned climate change once. His work defending Protestantism and theism is so helpful. Gavin wants unity, this is just a witch hunt.
I think this is a war on protestantism. Notice most of the people that are backing her or what a lot of people might consider far-right. Just take note. Like the Bible tells us. Take note of those who cause division
They're all like a bunch of ants, fighting over a theological crumb of food.
Meanwhile God watches this while drinking a beer and just laughs.
It’s horrible how she’s behaved against Gavin and now I’m disappointed in Allie for not doing her homework!
@@keepclimbing2015 well stated.
Gavin is wrong on climate. He minorly dipped his toe in ignorance. he should have left his echo chamber and read a counter opinion. or he should have stayed out of it if he was unwilling to get a reasonable position. Megan did a great job on showing how these global policies hurt the poor.
Stop defending Gavin. he is wrong. He should apologize. He should get informed about how these policies are used as a cudgill against the poor nations to do things that harm them or risk losing aid money.
It's quite insane to me that people still speak about Andy Stanley as if he is a Christian. What does a guy have to do to or say to show he is a wolf in sheep's clothing? If he is not a false believer then the category shouldn't even exist. We as Christians can be so naive in this area and its embarrassing.
Totally agree!
THANK YOU, A MILLION TIMES!!! It’s so annoying that he’s still being spoken about as a legitimate pastor. The man is an apostate and purposefully leading his sheep into the mouth of wolves as he slowly deconstructs their faith.
HE NEVER WAS A CHRISTIAN SORRY IF THAT OFFENDS ANYONE BUT IM SPEAKING TRUTH AND IF THE CAP FITS WEAR IT.
People that don’t read the Bible and go to church are his first the taking !
he could have been. @@applemac100100
Megan did Dr. Gavin Ortlund soooo dirty. Simply lies. Allie, if this slander of Gavin isn’t addressed, anyone who promotes this book is unknowingly bearing false witness against a faithful brother in the faith. Have him on.
Have you ever listened to this guy? I will give a pass if you haven’t otherwise your theology is completely wrong I would doubt that you understand the Bible at all, if you’ve read it
So I’ve only listened to him a little, but she did selectively edit his sentences to fit her narrative. Regardless of how you feel about Mr. Ortland, that is bearing false witness.
@@charliedontsurf334 not it’s not, listen to what he said.
@@OlgaSmirnova1 watch his entire video - she misrepresented and lied about what he said, his actual views, and what he called for from believers in church. It was dishonest. You are merely happy with the rest of her book and the "woke pastors" being called out, so you're willing to blindly believe everything she wrote.
@@OlgaSmirnova1 I have and do listen to him… where is his theology completely wrong?
Watch Gavin Ortland's response to Megan's write-up about him in her book. According to Gavin, she is being more than unfair. Any story sounds true until the other side is heard.
Did you read what Basham wrote about him? Or does his story sound true only because you haven't read hers?
@@jaredhageman4986 I watched Gavin's response only but he does a pretty good job of showing her taking him out of context. Gavin is an accomplished guy and it is a shame when journalists abuse other's careers unjustly.
@bobthrasher8226 In your original post, you correctly stated that one side is true until the other is heard. Yet, you're rendering a verdict here having only heard one side. And we already know he was in error in some of his complaints.
@@jaredhageman4986 Can you document his error(s)? I would say, though, that I am not a "fan" of Gavin while I do believe from his YT chan he is a intelligent, decent, and fair-minded guy. I am also not a fan of the supposed fixes for "climate change" and remain unconvinced of the CO2 hypothesis. I further believe that too many ministers seem to be naive about a lot in culture.
@@jaredhageman4986 where in his complaints?
57:32 “It was clearly not referring to him.”
This is absolutely ridiculous. A summary of a chapter applies to the chapter. Ortlund is in the chapter. When you summarize what you’ve already said, then it applies back to what you’ve already said! That’s how English works. From here you have 2 options as a Christian
1) Repent of your lack of careful words
2) Repent of your deception in representing him
Nonsense. She was very clear in the book (have you actually read it?) that there is a wide range of people in the book, some of whom are sellouts and have taken money from Soros to promote leftwing ideologies that conflict with the Bible. Others have simply been too influenced by the culture and end up peddling those ideologies. For Ortlund's fans to argue that she must have intended him to be in the former category either represents:
1) Exceptionally poor reading comprehension
2) Didn't read the book at all
3) Dishonesty
Which category do you fall into?
That'll preach!
Exactly!
Allie, please watch Gavin Ortlaund’s response to Megan using his name in her book and let us know what you think.
She says in the video that she did watch the response. A lot of people have. But I think most who have read the book and seen his response have concluded that Basham was not in error.
@@jaredhageman4986 You are spot on!!!!!!
She did and did respond. Watch the last ten minutes again.
we're here "because we didn't talk about it openly", and yet Gavin Ortlund isn't allowed to talk about it without being taken down in a book
And taken down with lies might I add. I watched his video. People really need to vet before they bring people on.
He wasn't "taken down," nor was he criticized because he said something about it at all. Did you actually read what Basham wrote in the book? Or are you a fan of Ortlund and are responding based solely on what he said in his video?
@@jaredhageman4986Gavin Ortland read it in his video. I'm not about to read an entire book of lies from a suspect individual who works for the far right outfit the daily wire just to get context for what they said about Gavin Orland in one chapter. Thank God I left fundamentalism behind.
@@jaredhageman4986 She mentioned him prominently in Chap 1 - how is he supposed to react when the title is about "sellouts?"
@@bobthrasher8226 Did you read the introduction and chapter 1? Or are you responding to his claims without firsthand knowledge?
In chapter 1 of the book, Basham misquotes and misrepresents Gavin Ortlund. This is unfortunate because her book does have an important message, but this instance of poor journalism will likely detract from that.
@michaelward1341 The one where she literally broke it up to say something he didn’t say.
He said “if you disagree with the consensus, don’t shoot from the hip” which is a claim of methodology. We can’t just say “it’s a conspiracy!” without any evidence. Show the evidence. Be careful with your claims. That’s all he was saying.
She broke up his quote to think that he meant it as a claim of conclusion. She broke it up to act as if he was saying “if you don’t agree with the consensus, then you’re just dumb.”
That’s not what he said in the slightest. It was just wrong.
@@coltonmoore4572 but Gavin is shooting from the hip by endorsing a corrupt consensus to infect his theology. He should have stayed out of the matter all together. Since he’s arguing from a false premise he is making the wrong conclusion. Why is the burden not on him to know why the corrupt consensus becomes public policy that denies much needed relief money to poor countries, unless they comply with that corrupt concensus? Given that those policies cause starvation. Gavin is unwittingly causing harm even though he might be doing this in ignorance. if he wants to harm the poor he can keep protesting his innocence.
if GAVIN was more careful in his claims he would not be guilty.
on the other hand, Megan HAS documented these harms (ie citing Sri Lanka as an example) in presentations that Gavin hasn’t stepped outside his echo chamber to listen to. He is precisely guilty of what he has accused others of. And Megan has, in other places, done exactly the substantiation that Gavin has required.
Gavin is wrong in his theology because he is wrong on the science. But i so respect your comment because you haven’t dismissed the rest of the book.
@@insiderinside1905 what is his theological error?
@@BipolarDistortion his theological error is that he married bad science to his theology. that becomes a tragic orthopraxy that oppresses the global poor with starvation. Megan’s thesis that evangelical shifts are required to get the votes to make marxist changes to legislation is so prescient. that makes Christian leaders such a target. Marxists have already taken over entertainment and higher education and lower ed. Now they have turned their attention to seminaries and churches.
So Gavin Ortlund is using a "tactic?" What are you saying about a fellow member of the Body of Christ while snickering into your sleeve?
Was he so important to be included in the book, but not so important to give the courtesy of a contact call/email?
A topic for Book 2? Whatever happened to Dr. Dobson and how Focus on the Family came to adopt the Duluth Model.
It seems like you are upset? I will have to watch again to see what I missed. I am thankful she is exposing these people. I am sure she couldn’t go in to detail on every one.
@davidprice9792 go look at Gavin Ortlund's body of work. A developing Mike Winger.
Expose? Let's expose her connections to the Daily Wire. "For Sale" central.
I've personally seen Megan confronting Gavin about climate change on Twitter back in the day. They exchanged dialogue multiple times, in the public eye. Gavin was very condescending during the exchange. Stop knee jerk defending him. He is a very small part of the book.
@adamr.6889 who still works for The Daily Wire, and who doesn't?
@@I_Art_Laughingwhat does that mean?
Inadequate response about Gavin ortland.
I'd like to know what "tactic" Gavin was using. If he was in error, spell it out. If he was not, apologize. Get to the bottom of it. Accusing him of chicanery is as bad as the original charge.
He responded to Basham on his channel and put links to the video she referred to in the the book. @I_Art_Laughing
Gavin has left leaning views on Genesis. Megan is right to include him in the climate change chapter.
@@philipmurray9796 there is nothing "left leaning views on Genesis" about Gavin's view on Genesis. Since when is evolution or science "left-leaning". Have you ever heard evolution as a talking point of the left? No, it simply is not. what a weird thing to say.
Also, the left does not own climate concern either.
@@philipmurray9796 and she has Ken Hamm/Rob Skiba leaning views.
Megan would you consider reaching out to Gavin Ortlund to clear up this unfortunate miscommunication? Im asking you simply bc you did write about his positions without reaching out to him beforehand.
Please consider pursuing peace as much as you are able. For Jesus’ sake. God bless.
She did. The two have gone back and forth on X a couple of times. The reality is that he misinterpreted what she wrote and then accused her of dishonesty. As far as I know, he has yet to apologize or remove his video, even though he knows his criticisms of her were not true. He took words that she wrote about other people, insisted that she wrote them about him, then complained that it was mean of her to say those things about him. And in all of this, he ignored how unbelievably important this book is. Even if she was totally wrong in everything she said about him (she's not), it would still be the most important book written this century. Maybe instead of making it all about himself, Ortlund needs to recognize the overall importance of the book.
Unfortunately, that was only strategic uncertainty back in the stone age. I hadn't even looked at that time.
When unbiblical teaching is taught publicly, a public rebuke is appropriate. Paul publicly rebuked Peter.
Megan out and out lied about Gavin Ortlund's beliefs and labeled him a traitor in the first chapter of this so called journalistic book. He is truly a Biblical scholar of the highest order and does not deserve this label. She needs to issue an apology to him.
How so did she lie?
Where exactly did she label him a traitor? Did you even read the book?
@debras3806 Please watch Gavins response video.
Gavin Ortlunds issues need to be gone over. Gavin has a video that shows his side and it does seem compelling.
ua-cam.com/video/-3ClEkfP8pM/v-deo.htmlsi=HRiqafB6Jgox_FsZ
If anyone thinks that Bashum was actually trying to approach Ortlund with charity, see her interview with Joel Webbon, where she firmly places him in the “liberal” category.
See her old tweets about how she can’t imagine someone accepting climate change and not being a liberal.
She puts politics at the forefront of her life and uses conservative politics as a litmus test for true faith
99% of the time Fundamentalism is talked about it's not actual Fundamentalism, just angry liberals. This is some rare actual Fundamentalism
Yep, that was a very mean treatment of him. He recently issued a video in response. He was very charitable. I hope she will apologize.
Her book was very charitable and fair. Did you read what she wrote? Or is this comment based on his video criticizing her?
@@tiffanydaniel8996 What exactly is she supposed to apologize for? Can you give me the quote and the page number that she said something inaccurate or "mean?"
@@jaredhageman4986 In fact, after reading the relevant portions, I did more research on her and found her Joel Webbon interview and older tweets.
She has CONSISTENTLY put right-wing issues over gospel issues.
In what world does it make sense to call someone a liberal pastor for supporting climate change? This is political liberalism, not theological. Equating the two degrades the gospel.
There are pastors with liberal political beliefs, but very conservative theological beliefs. Not on LG TV or abortion issues because those are theological issues. But on climate change? Absolutely. On social justice? Probably so (though not on identity politics or CRT).
You can’t equate theological conservatism with political conservatism. They aren’t the same thing. She does.
Have you seen the Joel Webbon interview I am talking about? Or are you just making a comment based on her own defense of her words?
Where did the live comments go? There was a call to address the Gavin Ortlund situation. He didn't deserve the 'sellout / traitorous' label you attached to him in your book, Megan. It is arguably much more progressive for a woman to instruct the entirety of the body of Christ than to say anything Gavin has said.
I was very bothered by her irresponsible writing about Dr. Ortlund.
You guys already read the book? Wow, you are fast readers.
it seems like she explained it in the video
@@remote_with_russ it seem she didn't at all.
@@amberkennett7544 I might read it after she gets fired from The Daily Wire for saying "Jesus is Lord!"
Allie, I watched your response to the Gavin Ortlund video concerning his part in Megan’s book. I am confused why he is even in the book and your response. By the way, I totally disagree with Ortlund’s position on climate change. But he is on the frontline and is one of the most outspoken defenders of Protestantism, pushing back on Catholic doctrine, debating atheist on slavery, and defending the core principles of Scripture! Very Orthodox! Talk about shooting a soldier in the back on battlefield. As a believer that likes your channel, I hope no one does that to you!
Amen
@@Doug-jf5hx Gavin does a much better job of defending Protestantism against Roman Catholic polemics than Stuckie did in her debate against Candace Owens' husband.
If Gavin is very Othodox then he should have no problem acknowledging and correcting his mistakes (everyone makes mistakes). But instead he making himself out to be a victim. If you are a minister of God, be ready to have a defense of that which you preach
@@smt0202 What mistake should he apologize for?
@@smt0202let me know where Gavin has committed his error! The Apostles creed, Nicene creed, Athanasian creed or the Westminster confession. Let’s make sure he changes his position in something Biblical not political. I look forward to your response.
You can’t call out Gavin Ortlund in a book like this which clearly includes him early in in the book as an example of a “shepherd for sale” and then insinuate that he’s being too sensitive. This is bearing false testimony, and she owes him an apology and needs to publicly retract these statements.
Can you please point out on which page she said that he is a "shepherd for sale?" I don't remember seeing that label applied to him. Did I miss it?
@@jaredhageman4986 If you include criticism of someone in a book titled "Shepherds for sale," then unless you say otherwise you are calling that person a Shepherd for sale.
@@justusmorton6555 She does say otherwise. He's just ignoring that.
Front page
Lol
Did you actually read the book, the whole chapter? Please read it and then if you still think so then you can say that Megan Basham actually misrepresented Gavin Ortlund. I think Gavin Ortlund is doing the very thing he accuses Megan Basham of doing, the whole idea of misrepresenting people.
As christians we should be make clear that the gospel should not be polluted by contemporary social politics either right or left…the pure and unadulterated gospel should be elevated and if it so happens to align with any political view, either left or right, then that should be a coincidence not an objective! Trying to align the church and its message to any political agenda is abhorrent!
@@thatpersontim9672 Amen!
Yes!!!! 🙌🙌🙌🎉🙏
So we're supposed to socially regress as a society 2,000 years ago into the biblical past? It's ridiculous to blame social progress and cultural diversity for the moral decline of America. Evangelicals and conservatives are too obsessed with the transgender issue, abortion, and Trump.
this is difficult because it says that Jesus can not redeem politics. But Jesus can! America was founded in such a way that the church is the conscience required first self rule. Megan’s work shows that the burying our head in the sand is not viable because congregations are vulnerable ti the zeitgeist. Every generation has their unique and common challenges to decipleship that churches must face. Had the church dealt with these issues when they were small we’d be in an easier place now.
But it should be noted that if you are a Biblical Christian, your views will coincidently allign with much of the right and very little of the left
01:01:08 Megan ecouraging christians to think biblically about these issues (climate change, etc.) IS THE SAME THING brother Gavin said in his video, christians need to THINK MORE about these issues (climate change). But Megan just went and falslly represented brother Gavin. She should correct that, for truth's sake.
You should have Gavin Ortlund on. He is incredibly misrepresented in this interview and in her book.
No. Enough milking this. Bigger issues.
None of these individuals or group or media is stronger than the true living God, our Lord and Savior Jesus.
As a follower of Christ who so happens to be black we left our “church” who started these types of guilting of our white brothers and sisters. I find it disgusting. No one born in the US and has lived here has ever been a slave and no white person has been a slave owner. We should not be putting this separation between anyone. We are Christians, one race…. Absolutely disgusting.
Gavin Ortlund is an unjustified addition.
Gavin Ortlund needs to understand why he is being criticized. it would take so little to understand since he already embraces Augustine’s proportionality. With considering how his error on climate is a massive harm on public policy that affect the poor directly, he will not understand how he is in the wrong.
@@insiderinside1905 her claims against him aren't about his views on climate science. This has been addressed, in particular to you making this comment, at least four or five times in responses directly to you.
@insiderinside1905 The question is not whether or not he was right on climate change. The question is whether he is someone who is infiltrating the church with left-wing ideology by making climate change a matter of gospel truth. The answer unequivocally is no, he is not. She misrepresents him blatanty and profoundly, to make it sound like he makes agreeing with the climate change consensus a litmus test for lwhether you love your neighbor, when, in fact, what he says is that, given the scientific consensus, we are failing to love our neighbor if we do not take the climate change question seriously enough to look into it substantively. I'll admit that neither I nor most people I know have looked into it substantively. And he rightly suggests the reason, which is that the climate change agenda is associated with the political and cultural left in America in this particular time in history. I, for one, can listen to his video without getting offended and blowing his words out of proportion, even though I find it rubs me a little bit the wrong way. Likely this is because I'm already familiar with his teaching style, and he talks the same way when he's explaining obscure points of church history and theological debate - like that the canons of the second council of Nicea against iconoclasm disprove the infallibility of Church dogma.
Many will says Lord Lord! But the Lord will say “Depart from me for I never knew you!” Time is shorter than one thinks!
I was a supporter of Focus on the family as far back when Dr Dobson was there and continued until Jim Daly made His employees get the vaccination and did a foreword in Andy Stanley’s book. I did call focus on the family and told them why I was stopping my donations and the girl who answered was gracious and kind but he never responded- very disappointed. Dr Dobson now has Family talk and is still unwavering Christian- solid in the word.
Didn't know that about FoF... It is a shame the vilification and other harms against those who refused the vax. Not saying FoF is doing that but we need all hands on deck to push back against this stuff.
I stopped supporting Focus on the family because of their push to persuade listeners to accept c o v i d jabs. I have never heard an appology from them.
55:00
Megan was being dishonest about Ortlund.
AND, I might add Ken Ham made 7, 24-hour day creation and Noah's Ark and a global flood literally, with no room for discussion A SALVATION ISSUE. Allie didn't push back. It was probably my least favorite episode, and i wasn't alone, based on the comments.
Ken Ham doesn’t say it is a salvation issue! He says literal 7 day creation is an authority issue!
Allie, please consider having Dr Gavin Ortlund on your program. Her treatment of him is unchristlike and horrid.
Worth reading a rather scathing review of the book at The Dispatch by someone who knows Megan very well.
ThankYou Ladies! This is such an informative discussion. I’m learning so much beyond what I’ve heard and seen from my own search. Our local churches have been majorly affected by the racial-political influences. A part of me wants to yell..” please…Church…Stop this madness!” And the other part of me wants to step back..and wait until this woke generation of church goers learn by doing. It’s fairly obvious they are not always wise learners.
Free big homie Gavin Ortlund bro didnt even do anything
Wow! They cut that portion of the fight out of the show! Seriously, this stuff enrages me!
It's because of UA-cam guidelines.
@@pete3261what are the guidelines that say you can’t show a clip of something if you leave all the logos and stuff on it showing the original source? Not sarcasm, seriously asking.
UA-cam has been taking down that everywhere. Every UA-cam posting it gets it removed. They can't allow the trans narrative to look bad. @@amandasmith5081
@@amandasmith5081 The IOC has always been extremely intolerant of the use of their current content during an Olympic year, and on top of that, UA-cam has become extremely and unjustly intolerant of things indiscriminately deemed “violence” as well as censoring the use of certain words in youtube content. UA-cam often demonitizes videos for what they willy-nilly claim is a violation.
Allie Beth, please Gavin Ortlund’s response to her erroneous comments about him in her book. Poor journalism. I’m concerned when I see PR tours like this that the content creators don’t have the staff to read and properly vet these books like they should be especially when calling out other people. We need to be more careful. While Megan brings a lot of good points she has sprinkled in lies.
Did you hear Megan address Ortlund at the end? She said he took her general comments about a group of people and said they were about him.
I think she (Megan) is glossing over the association she implied by naming and using Gavin as an example in a book titled "Shepherds for sell". That alone is just low.
@@Sanna727 my recommendation for a replacement chapter: How Focus on the Family came to adopt the Duluth Model; Why Complimentarianism is Not Abuse.
@@queenofprops I doubt any of these people attacking Megan have even laid hands on her book. The fact is Gavin, in his response, sends the listener to his video where he is clearly pushing a Marxists environmental viewpoint. Of coarse he will deny that.
@@queenofprops, yeah, that’s not accurate either. She said specific things about his views that were not accurate. Namely, that his easygoing posture was misleading and that he makes climate change conclusions to be gospel issues.
She has good criticisms of others (Stanley), but poor vetting on Gavin Ortlund definitely makes her look unreliable.
And given his good reputation, she should have reached out to him first.
Riveting. Thank you for addressing these critical issues. Well done.
Megan Basham: We shouldn’t elevate climate change to a gospel issue!
Dr. Gavin Ortlund: Ok. I disagree with you on climate change. I think we should do something about it and be good stewards of the earth. But we can have different opinions on it.
Basham: LIBERAL!!!!!!!!! I’m going to use you as an example in my book about sold out pastors and wolves in sheep’s clothing
Ortlund: …
”set your affection on things above” not on if people agree with your politics…I hope she addresses the hypocrisy that is so blatant
I mad at you Colton. Because you came up with this framing and not me. I laughed out loud. But Yeah that is an accurate description what she did and it is shameful.
Beckett Cook recently interviewed Patti Hight. Both were formerly LGBT - both came to Christ and the Holy Spirit drew them. Not sure why the church feels the need to embrace and twist themselves into pretzels to make it 'OK." Part of the current "feel good gospel" zeitgeist, but God stands alone and draws people to Himself without our help and promoting things that are a distortion of his Word.
No one is ‘formerly LGBT’. They just stopped publicly identifying as gay, but Beckett is still a single man so there’s no actual proof of his sexuality changing. Nice try, though.
To be fair, Beckett Cook has said that he repented of homosexuality, and he remains celebate.
Andy Stanley was critical of the drag queens at the Olympics opening ceremony. Didn’t he know he has helped to foster things like that?
Yeah, he WAS. He deleted that post once he realized which way the wind was blowing
Sounds like you haven't been following Andy Stanley very well
Much gratitude to you my dear Christian sisters in Christ, boldly proclaiming the Word of God in our extremely treacherous and compromised, so called Progressive churches. Amen❤
Putting a mans name in a book titled "Shepherds for Sale " is serious. Dont try to weedle out of doing that with Gavin.
Nonsense. She makes it abundantly clear throughout the book that not everyone in it is a "shepherd for sale." Did you read the book? Or are you responding to something you know little about?
@@jaredhageman4986don't be naive. Anyone who knows Gavin and his ministry knows his name should not appear in a book with that title. Megan obviously did not do good research here and yes, she did misrepresent him.
@@Butlerfamilyoutdoors Can you please show me what she said that represented him?
Also, she mentioned a lot of people in the book who are clearly not "Shepherds for Sale," including John MacArthur. Why do you think that description must have been meant for Ortlund when she's extremely clear that it doesn't apply to everyone in the book?
@jaredhageman4986 Gavin very carefully shows the misrepresentation in his video just watch it. Plus, how would you like to be included in and misrepresented in the first chapter of a book with that title? Also, the way she talks about Gavin would lead anyone to believe she was including him.
@@Butlerfamilyoutdoors The problem with that argument is that I read the book and I watched his original video. If anything, she went very easy on him. He deserved a much harsher criticism for pushing "climate science" in the name of Christianity. If I had been an Ortlund fan prior, I would have walked away when he cited "love your neighbor" as a reason to promote climate change. That's such a massive red flag. He is someone who ought to be avoided.
Also, did you know that he and Russel Moore are on staff at the same church? Moore, in case you aren't familiar, has been one of the biggest villains in the evangelical world. The connection between Moore and Ortlund seems likely to be relevant in all of this. Perhaps they want us all talking about what the book said of Ortlund, rather than Moore.
Ordered the book and staying up late to dive right in. It struck me that Megan mentioned CCCU, specifically APU and Biola. It made immediate sense to me what was happening on these campuses that they have begun to lose their focus on Biblical truth and in APU's case, God First. As an alumni of APU and a professor at Christian universities, it made me really sad to see campuses losing their way and not really understanding how this was happening. I hope this book helps to shed light and provide an avenue to help change the direction that so many Christians universities are heading. I firmly believed that the Christian university was the last bastion of true education as we watched liberal universities losing their way educationally, only then to watch my beloved California Christian colleges doing the same.
What does APU stand for? Sorry, am not an American.
@@ElliottWong2024 Azusa Pacific University, a Christian university in Southern California. No need to apologize 😊
@@lorrytrujilloperezphd You know, in my country, there is also a university named APU. Asia Pacific University. That's why I was confused. Go look it up.
@@ElliottWong2024 Ah, I see. Asia Pacific University in Tech, I had no idea. Looks like a very good school. Thank you.
This conversation says everything -- and not about what it thinks -- i.e., "leftward drift", It reflects the influence of secularized reductionism that's now seeped into the Kingdom. Also, is "Big Eva" the counterpart to "Alt Eva?" You know, since we're freely appropriating secular pejoratives to divide and conquer the brethren.
"Alt Eva" 🫲yonk🤛 gonna start using that one
I've been a focus on the family listener since my kids were in grade school many years ago. Focus on the family had Francis Collins on their podcast when the pandemic first started. I'm assuming they didn't know the things that you're bringing to light right now. I pray that that is the case.
@janetotto9321 let's just go ahead and ignore that, hey how about it?
Focus on the Family promotes false teachers. They are seriously compromised.
Never assume anything!
Defeats the whole purpose to be oftening terms and re wording when its the Word that sanctifies. We need to be welcoming to the community so they aren't "scared of the Church" but then speak and preach Scriptures authentically bc that's how we are sanctified. Can't be washed by the Word if its diluted
I go to a SBC church in Summerville South Carolina. Been there since 2005 and I haven’t heard this problem show up in my church. Will be watching.
In another podcast with Webbon, Megan claimed that "Gavin encouraged Christians to consider climate change, which set off alarm bells' in her head. Oh Really? And encouragement to just look at and consider the subject set off alarm bells? Maybe we should just become Catholic and let the Magisterium tell us what is true and right.
I grew up in the United Methodist church. It was always liberal, back in the 1980s, but we stayed to try and inject truth wherever possible - God used my precious Mother to tell a lot of people about Jesus. About Bible study. She was my very best Bible teacher too. We would leave, exhausted and needing to be fed but so often would get a phone call, asking me or more often my Mom to come teach adult Sunday School.
My Mom has Alzheimer's now, i watched a Sunday service during covid & it was. ... physically dark. The pastor was my best friend as a child, and she was holding up the Alcoholics Anonymous book, telling the congregation that this book "is as useful for teaching as the Bible". I was not welcome to visit because i didn't want to be in a Pride parade. My heart hurts constantly for that church. I prayed to ask Jesus into my heart there! We had great Bible based Children's Church back in the 1970s.
I love the UMC. My dad was an ordained pastor in the UMC. It breaks my heart how the denomination has turned out. I'm praying for it. John wesley would be appalled at what happened 😢😢
She works for The Daily Wire and Gavin Ortlund has a 70k sub youtube channel, but HE's the sellout? Allie, please show some discretion here....
So free speech for All, with the exception of Christians. Thank you Allie for sharing truth. Blessings to you and your family🙏
Only in the second chapter of her book and I want to cry. The corruption is heart breaking.
This exact topic is why I left one of the largest churches in my city. As soon as I saw the woke hivemind start creeping in, then they invited a prominent speaker on this topic to host a conference there that affirms this sin, I was so sad but knew it was Yahweh leading me through to the truth. I'm now at a biblically sound, gospel affirming church and it's all because of my Savior answering my prayers for true fellowship with true believers. So thankful that this topic is being talked about and parsed apart to make it clear how easy it's slipping into churches.
The issue of shepherds for sale isn't just political. Often churches tolerate divorce and immorality and have little church discipline. There are very loose membership standards. There are no basic rules like requiring members to install anti-porn software on all devices or avoid going to bars and getting drunk. Years ago evangelical churches had behavioral and modest dress standards based on scriptures. Today the churches have very little control over member's behavior.
Yep that's prevalent in most churches now even in Australia 🇦🇺
If a church required me to install any monitoring software I would leave immediately. Total violation of privacy and a huge security risk
I think the problem is that it was legalism and not loving accountabilty amongst brothers and sisters in Christ.
If a church told me I couldn't go to bars, I'd probably leave before the service was even over.
In Hebrews it says to obey your leaders because they watch over our souls. If a leader warns the church members to avoid certain situations, in good faith, then it's a good idea to realize he sees risks and thus accept his wisdom. Hanging where there is drunkenness and immorality sets a bad example for others, even if you don't abuse alcohol or hook up with women at the bar. At my church we insist that everyone have Covenant Eyes or similar porn blocking software on every device and to keep the computer and phone where others in the family can see what you're up to. This policy has helped many men avoid porn addiction. I accept advice from wise leaders and elders. It's very foolish not to listen. After all, we are told to flee temptation and that bad companions ruin good morals.
Alle, thank you for having her on. I am one of the few commenters who listened to Gavin's presentation and defense and read Megan's book. She is absolutely correct in her assessment of Gavin. You would think she dedicated a whole chapter to him, but his name only appears on a few pages. Now, Danny Aiken and Jonathon Moo are another story. The way she is attacked by these commenters tells me she is on to something.
Justice for Gavin!
Allie, please consider inviting Gavin Ortlund. He is a biblically solid baptist, whose teaching is incredibly theologically rich and edifying. On top of that, he offers teaching defending Protestantism from church history, to a level that I have not been able to find in any other teacher. He is a huge blessing, and I would love to see his name cleared.
Pray for Florida. There's two votes on the ballot this november. Amendment 3 and amendment 4. Amendement 3 will allow marijuana in the state and Amendment 4 will codify abortion access here. Please pray that neither pass in spite of their high support and Christians in Florida, if you really care about this please go out and vote!
WOW - Megan is SOOOOO inspiring!!
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱✝️🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇺🇸
Thank you all!
Thank you, Allie Beth. Megan sure is ruffling a *lot* of the right feathers.
Thank you for this video. I learned a lot. Wish you had been more specific regarding the Gavin Ortlund claims! Perhaps Megan could discuss them with him here face to face.
When promoting a book, is it common to only speak to people who won’t push back against any part of it? It seems like this author has been strategic in choosing podcasts to promote her book, and as a result, I haven’t seen anyone challenge the assumptions she's making. Is this intentional?
I don't know about books, but in general I think it's common to ignore detractors. There have been a lot of calls for more interaction between many of the people Megan mentions in the book (Russel Moore, TGC, etc) and their detractors. The best we get is TGC publishing a stupid article then deleting it without comment if there is backlash. I think Megan is wrong in a lot of the way she is handling it, but it's not unique I don't think.
Just finished the book and it was fantastic! Thanks for hosting this discussion/interview 😁
What kind of "journalist" doesn't even reach out to the people she's going to do a hit-piece on?
Brother, I wish we lived in an age of journalism. Unfortunately, we all have the tendency to build our base and platform. It seems that is what is happening here. And what’s even more unfortunate is that our reactions will potentially just help her do just that
I think if it's a public statement thats pretty clear, there's no reason to reach out to. I'm not sure why any journalist would reach out to people unless they need clarification. I've watched Gavin's whole video and I have to say his stance is very clear, so I'm not sure why he feels like he's being misrepresented.
@@testingbruin he’s being included in conversations with people who really should be criticized. A man who is essentially making the argument that Christians should care for God’s world isn’t the same as one who is denying the infallibility of Scripture! How is this even a conversation?!
@Guerry78 I think Megan Basham used Gavin Ortlund as an example reasonably in the book in the way she describes her opinion of the issue with climate change. Just because he's in the book is not an issue if you read things in context. Are people offended just because he was used reasonably as an example in the book for illustrating some points in chapter 1?
@@testingbruin I think folks who are frustrated with the situation totally disagree with your position that she used Orlund as a “reasonable” example. The fact that she says people are reading it too literally and that she wasn’t lumping Ortlund into the same camp as the others mentioned-on the same page mind you-shows that she also doesn’t quite think he was a reasonable example.
The truth is, she didn’t do her due diligence when she wrote the book. She wasn’t aware that Gavin was the opposite of who she was criticizing.
Megan Basham is a gift to the body of Christ and the world. As a Black man, I am saddened by so many Black people in Christendom who consistently support the darkness of the Anti-GOD, Anti-Jesus, anti-moral absolutes practices of the Democratic party. 😢
This idea that she just uses Gavin Ortlund as an example and that she is not misrepresenting him is very false. She takes two words from a quote and completely misapplies them to make it seem like he says something he is not.
My husband and I left our church due to being called privileged for being white, being soft on the trangender issue, and the final straw was apologizing to those who don't identify as prolife when Roe vs Wade was overturned. We had been going there for almost 20 years.
Have you considered attending a Catholic mass sometime?
@@bluecomb5376 I was raised Catholic. I have family and friends that are Catholic and agree with most of their teachings. Since leaving, I have been Baptist, Lutheran (almost 20 years) and now non-denominational but none of their worship services came close to the Catholic mass.
The fight of a man and woman in a woman’s competition is not allowed in UA-cam? Wow!
Not allowed if you are presenting it in the context of something that is bad apparently.
Such an educational and welcome conversation! Imagine my shock at being chastised by my Sunday school class for refusing to use preferred pronouns 😮 You have given me some respectful ways to address these issues. Thank you both.
But Gavin Ortlund is definitely not a sold-out shepherd. 😢
Who said that he was?
@@jaredhageman4986what did she say in that regard?
@@DPK5201 What did she say in what regard?
@@jaredhageman4986 in another podcast Megan says "Gavin thinks Climate change is something Christians should think about and that set off alarm bells" in her mind
Really. And encouragement to think set off alarm bells. Might as well join the CAtholic church and have the Magisterium tell you what to think.
@@DPK5201 That makes no sense whatsoever. I just watched Ortlund's video on climate change. To be honest, Basham went very easy on him. His video completely discredits him as a serious thinker or theologian. The wild part is that he hasn't even deleted the video, even while he complains about Basham exposing it.
I started attending a.Methodist church in 2015. It has since gone woke. I was told that homosexuality is not a sin, yesterday. Our new pastor is a biological female married to a trans "woman".
Satan has infiltrated many denominations. Mainline Protestants churches have gone WOKE. Most of these denominations have embraced the secular culture. 😢
I invite you to attend a Catholic mass next Sunday!
@@alenaramirez111 Most Mainline Churches have become WOKE. Many of the Mainline Protestant denominations such as the Episcopal Church USA, ordain openly gay or lesbian clergy members. My husband was an Episcopal Priest for almost 20 years. We left the Episcopal Church in 2012. We are Catholic Converts now. I hope that this comment isn't deleted.
Good work Megan! Hope more journalists expose the left wing drift among evangelical leaders.
And the right wing??
Megan did Gavin dirty.
All to generate UA-cam drama.
It’s hard to take her seriously.
It's such a good conversation this video presents. One is finally starting to understand why there is so much chaos happening in conservative politics. This explains everything!
Allie, you’re better than this. Megan’s book is a bad effort at journalism. Way too much slander orchestrated to fit her narrative.
It will be interesting to see how many also buy Gavin's new book out later this month and available for pre-sale: What it Means to be Protestant. Consistent with his defense of the historic Protestant doctrines vs..Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Adding my voice to the chorus of voices asking you to invite Gavin Ortlund on to defend himself. She was incredibly unfair to him in this book.
I recall her mentioning that she had repeatedly tried to contact the Pastors mentioned and few responded if at all. 🤷♀️
Your topic is very but sadly accurate. Many christian churches and Christian people have bought into this secular nonsense. In my past people would often invite you to their church. I own and operate a store based on southern and confederate heritage. Both are honorable with the south having always been the biblical anchor of our nation! However I never once since opening my story in 2015 been invited to a church. I display the Christian flag out front of my store and am born again bible believing Southern Baptist. After seeing your video now I understand why. Actually sent a donation to a local church in the mail as a test. They didn't cash the check nor did I get an invitation to the church. I do share my faith with my customers, customers that come from every state in America and 35 foreign countries. Thank you for a very thoughtful and informative video. Dixie General Store Heflin Alabama
Megan Basham lied and horribly misrepresented Gavin Ortlund in her book, just fyi. It’s pretty much on the level of slander. Imagine roping Ortlund with the likes of Andy Stanley. Insane.
Just saying hello! Hope everyone is well.
Love 💛 and Light 🕯 to ALL!
🇺🇸𝔊𝔬𝔡 𝔅𝔩𝔢𝔰𝔰 𝔄𝔪𝔢𝔯𝔦𝔠𝔞 🇺🇸
Out of a desire for truth, justice, & acting in Christian charity, Megan needs to be called out for the lies & distortions she has made against Gavin Ortlund.
I want to go out there and say please please invite Fr Josiah Trenham to your podcast. He is an Orthodox Christian. I know it would be hard to go outside of your family to follow the Orthodox, but please consider......
Yes! Great suggestion! ☦ Fr. Josiah Trenham is gentle and loving but doesn't mince words and the conversation would be worthwhile. His website is Patristic Nectar Publications and his YT channel is Patristic Nectar. ☦
So, Allie did bring the Gavin situation up to Megan and was fair enough to lay out his and his audience's concerns.
And to be fair to Megan, after watching his full original video, his suggestion that Christians should be in some kind of leadership role on climate change is questionable.
Now, on the use of pollutants, toxins, throw away plastics, the indiscriminate use of pesticides and herbicides- etc. I could more readily support Christians advocating this from a stewardship perspective.
All of that said, Gavin, at his heart, is a dutiful researcher, and the bleak picture painted by many in the scientific community can be scary. But based on the one video. which I have now watched, I'm not sure labeling him as a sellout in her book, or Progressive, as she did in a UA-cam video a couple of years ago, was really appropriate.
Too much talking and too much theology leads to too little action and a lot of squabbling. I think alot of us are guilty of that.
I would argue her theology is what is choppy if she thinks someone who has a differing view on climate change is a sellout lol
What if someone says, I am a murderer, that’s just “who I am “. Puh-leez……..we should empathize but sin is sin.
It’s one thing to say “well, not everyone in the book is a ‘Shepherd for Sale’” like Gavin Ortlund. But that is the title of your book, so it most definitely gives that impression. And your summary was a summary of the section that Gavin was in, but somehow you didn’t intend to include Gavin as part of the summary?
I think Gavin could have done a better job with the video in presenting both sides on CC, but Basham could have either clarified that GO is not a shepherd for sale, or quoted him more accurately.
I enjoy listening to both Allie and Megan. I would love to see either one of you address the Orange Curriculum. This curriculum is on so many churches and it is for children. It worries me that it is watering down the gospel. It seems to be very progressive.
Allie, I LOVE your show and have listened for years but this interview and book are incredibly misleading and takes up a mantel where it shouldn’t be. Megan at 27:16 says that these topics should be debatable and yet writes EXTENSIVELY against Gavin Ortlund (another golden theological leader) for saying exactly this. She is attacking a fellow Christian is a dishonest way. She has lost my trust completely and I would love for you to have Gavin on the show. This is so sad and Megan is baring false witness to *ironically* make more money off her book….
You are false, she is exposing evil !
I’ve been an evangelical since the early 2000s and I’ve never heard of this Ortlund guy. He’s being defended as though he’s an Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kathryn Kuhlman etc. Or our modern day Kent Christmas, Julie Green, Hank Kunneman etc. Since 2020 I’ve watched a lot of preachers and prophets and not once have I ever heard him mentioned. Either he has a very aggressive following that’s bombarding the comments or he fell through the cracks. Gonna have to do a deep dive.
P.s. Any Elijah Stream followers? Why hasn’t he ever been mentioned?
Megan owes Gavin Ortlund an apology... Maybe she owes some others apologies, too
Why does she owe him an apology? He got caught red-handed using his ministry to promote a political issue. As far as I know, the video he posted promoting that political ideology is still up. Was it wrong of her to tell the truth? Is he above criticism?
@@jaredhageman4986 Please give me a link to the video you are referring to
@jaredhageman4986 he didn't say Christianity meant you had to support a particular piece of legislation, just that Christianity should be able to weigh in. And Megan herself admits in the book that the church should be able to have those discussions. Christianity has much to say about how we should live.
She then illustrates this further in her use of scripture to support the pro-life movement. While I'm not equating these two issues of equal importance, it shows that often scripture does give us insights on how to live. It doesn't make it legalism unless you're claiming your own righteousness will let you enter the kingdom of heaven.
In her book, she selectively chooses when to start from theological premises and when to start from political premises. The book is very inconsistent, which only serves to undermine an otherwise important message.
@@lasshrugged I did not say that he argued you had to support a particular piece of legislation. But it's hard to watch his video and conclude that he just wants Christians to talk about it and not take any political action. Do you really think that's what he has in mind? If climate change is an important issue with massive consequences (as he argues), then aren't Christians obligated to do something and not just sit around talking?
And I would apply that standard consistently. If I were to make a video on abortion, I would not conclude by saying that Christians just need to talk about it more. No, I would say that Christians should find ways to stand up for the unborn, whether it's voting for pro-life candidates, writing to politicians to encourage pro-life legislation, volunteering at or donating to crisis pregnancy centers, etc. It requires a call to action. Ortlund is deliberately being slippery in avoiding any specific calls to action. That's a strike against him, not something to defend him on.
@jaredhageman4986 I'm not saying he is saying you shouldn't take action. Rather that the church should not avoid the topic and cede the ground completely to the left, that is how we get those authoritarian leftist policies.
Rather, Megan is the one being inconsistent. She seems to be saying it's okay to advocate for pro-life policy, but any concern for the environment means you are motivated by the authoritarian left instead of trying to follow how God would have you live.
She is starting from a position of what political positions she agrees with and then saying it's okay to use your religion to support it, but not for political positions she doesn't agree with.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke: "Three of these things belong together. Three of these things are kind of the same." John: "But one of these things is doing his own thing." What game were they playing with those QR codes?
I appreciate your show. I ask this sincerely and respectfully, Would you consider researching whether any political money from the Right has influenced pastors or sponsored curriculums that more conservative churches may use? I've listened to right leaning pastors before that gave me that same funny feeling or "alarm bells" of discernment you described. Also, the legalist mindset you both mentioned where pastors who have compromised on the left make a political position into a judgement on whether or not you're a "good Christian." I've seen this happen in right leaning churches where a republican position or a fox news opinion, etc becomes on par with the Bible within a church culture.
Again, I ask this sincerely and respectfully. I think you both have a gift of being able to articulate things and think it could be helpful if you take the principles discussed in this podcast and apply them without partiality perhaps in a separate podcast (or book 😊).
I understand that this was an interview about a book, so I don't fault you at all for not "balancing" things out. I'm just genuinely curious what pastors or ministries may have sold out for right wing politics or if there are any curriculums with that influence we should be aware of.
(For maybe a tangent example, even in the homeschool community, you may hear someone caution, "that curriculum is very 'God and country' which I think has been a helpful caution bc the "Christian" curriculum can twist the Bible to out of context or rewrite American history in ways to seem more distinctly Christian than it was at times as a whole -- but the Bible didn't do that with Israel's messy history, so we don't need to do that with American history.
Honest histories highlight the glory of the Gospel, and that God is the Hero and the Holy One who is merciful and mighty to save sinners.
I've met people who I think are true Christians who were raised with a combination of these curriculums or ideas that merge specific political beliefs very closely with Christianity to the risk of that person becoming legalitic in the other direction. Ones I've met misunderstand the Gospel because of the political messages tangled into their convictions, that were reinforcd through their church and their homeschool.
I'm concerned that many can't discern that right wing type of error, especially in the culture war where we know so many lies are coming from the left.
I'm in agreement with you both and want to keep warning about those dangers, but I see Christians suseptible to a reciprocal danger if not alert and discerning.
Robert Jefferis. Maybe no money but I fluency for sure
Ask her about her incorrect footnotes in the book. It could have been great. Very sad. Ask Janet Meffred about the footnotes.
Allie, if you really want to help clear up the confusion i suggest you have Gavin Ortlund on your program. Any valuable messages contained in Megan's book (which there are in my opinion) are stained by her misrepresentation and virtual slander of Ortland. We desperately need intellectual and personal humility in these types of discussion.
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Her little fake laugh at 56:54 to deflect…wow, it’s unfortunate. It degrades my ability to respect her and take seriously the rest of what she says when she’s defending her misrepresentation instead of repenting.
It’s not that hard, Megan!
No religion can save you or offer salvation. Only a personal relationship with Jesus can. It's all about change. Change of heart, mind, body and soul. If there's no change there's no Christ. Too many are using Christian as a description. Make straight the way in your hearts for Jesus and love Him first over everyone and everyting. Be a Christ-In.
Much of Megan’s concerns are legitimate. The leftward drift of evangelism is clear and she does a really good job explaining that.
However, she can tend to misrepresent those she disagrees with in the worst light possible. Gavin Ortlund is a case in point. That guy is probably the most fair and clear-minded theologian on UA-cam. He is clear on every core historic Christian doctrine. And on controversial issues he extends the most charity and always tries to give in-depth historical and theological context while remaining faithful to Scripture.
I truly don’t understand the attacks against Gavin. It’s very disingenuous and it hurts the credibility of Megan as a journalist and author.