But to you really want a hypnotist selling you Coffehouse Calvinism? That's the gateway drug to the Real Deal, which is something no sober person could want
As a Christian from Africa who follows and listens to many American preachers and follows a little bit of American politics, I am quite wary of where American Christianity is heading. I don't know about the grassroots Christianity of the faithful and small churches aiming to serve God but for the ones we see on this side of the world, it is shocking to me how much political views from both the left and right influence American churches and personalities. Some people are literally questioning people's salvation based on how Trumpian they are or how liberally inclusive they are. That's just poor.
As an American, I think people unwittingly worship politicians and ideologies instead of God, even if they say they worship God and love Jesus. In this country, politics, sex, and money are generally the only things average people talk about.
Yes it is all horribly true.. The American evangelical Downgrade is great, a shame and sorrowful. Please African Christians, send as many solid Reformed missionaries over here as soon as possible, as prophets are not accepted in our country. Your influence by the Lord's grace and power could/would be mighty and could work some wonders..
Much of (perhaps most of?) popular American Christianity is heading nowhere good. Power corrupts. It is wise to be wary, sir. God have mercy, but I believe we are quite worldly. That being said, there are many unknown Christians in America meeting in homes and obscure churches who are wise to this foolishness. Either we will repent or God will judge us with our own arrogance.
American Christianity had always been first and foremost a tool of imperialism. There are relatively few Christians in America who follow Christ. In my experience it is a fascist movement and has been for at least 40 years.
-PhD in historical theology -Father of 5 -Complimentarian -Preaches that Jesus is the only way to salvation -Baptist Pastor -Made 1 video on climate change = flaming liberal, who piggy-banks the IPCC 🤦🏻
And this is why he is right to call it fundamentalism, not evangelicalism. Fundamentalists are absolutist about non-central issues. They can't accept someone as a faithful brother if he has any view they disagree with on any issue, no matter how tiny. He is right to see this as a theological triage issue.
Sure but isn't the premise of Megan's book just that evangelicals have compromised on issues when they step out of the evangel. So pointing out that he is evangelical kind of misses the point.
as someone who heard Gavin preach every Sunday for over a year in Ojai, I never heard him mention climate change once outside of the video in question.
What's wrong with slander? Jesus slandered Pharisees and so did Peter, John, and Paul. There is nothing wrong with slanders if it is the truth. Too many American Christians think "niceness" is the best thing. No, it's not. It's the truthfulness. Why do you think Ortlund is making this video? He is slandering Megan for her alleged falseness.
@@TacoTuesday4 I saw a video of Gavin defending himself, I did not see evidence of slander. If I'm wrong I'm open to be corrected, but Gavin showing different videos of himself, selected by himself does not prove slander by Megan but as I've said I'm open to and welcome correction.
@@skyred2 Last time I checked on how to quite things: only put in quotation marks what was actually said and then give a source. If you need to insert or explain words, you use these bracets []. If you misquoted someone in a way like that, it can sometimes be as bad as to libel. Just saying. This can be very bad.
This is just disappointing… this is what happens when political views become our hermeneutics rather than the Bible. Thank you for your work Gavin, and for always standing for the truth in an Irenic way
I’ve been listening to the book and it has accurately described my experience in my evangelical church of left wing politics becoming hermaneutics and push back against such being deemed as “inserting politics”. It’s a shame that she seems to have mischaracterized Gavin here (and possible others, though I haven’t finished) because I believe the central thesis of her book is accurate. I would love to see her both speak to Gavin and give a correction to any misrepresentations she had written and not double down, as is so popular nowadays.
Ever since the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced five hundred years ago many idiots like Calvin Smythe Zwingli Henry Ellen Knox Wesley Russell etc started to interpret the Bible on their own wild imagination and even adding their wishful thinking or twisting historical facts or even worse they even tried to manipulate the holy Bible itself in order to make their satanic theology fit into it and after five centuries by now around fifty thousand heretic crooks like Ortlund are doing all sorts of nonsense and contradicting each other all the time rendering Christianity itself into chaotic anarchism but they are united for one thing that is to destroy the Church of saints that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but nothing happened to it for the last two thousand years and will remain till Jesus comes back because Jesus himself promised to Peter saying no gates of hell will prevail against it
Making politics your hermeneutic- you totally nailed it. And people on both sides do this. I was at a church where the pastor was talking about political statues. So bizarre!
My precious college senior granddaughter pointed me to your channel as a rational intellectual source to help her navigate her growing faith in Jesus Christ. I haven’t been disappointed. We use some of your videos for our own discussions. You have just answered my question half through this video. The author clearly did not speak to you before putting this book out. It calls into question whatever else she has written.
I'm so glad to hear your granddaughter is trying to remain grounded in her faith while at college. That's a real battleground! As for the statement that she may not have contacted Ortland before commenting on his very public comments... When someone presents something publicly, they are inviting critique. Why should anyone have to contact Ortland first to get his approval before interacting with what he has said. When we make public statements, particularly as a cultural or community influencer, we give our implied consent to be critiqued.
She picked reasonable people who treat others with dignity and respect, to call in to question local shepherds who exhibit similar traits. If she picked the most egregious people, no one would see similarities with their church leaders. She also works in the book to cast shade on seminaries to create suspicion on shepherds who have studied, especially younger shepherds. This book is a call to war, a call to fight in a culture war, in a way that I believe contradicts the Gospel. The message is clear, if your church and its shepherds are not engaged in this battle, find one that is. I recommend the book Coreology as a better way to think about the times we live in from a Christ centered approach.
This is a moment I long expected to come, a canary in the coal mine of how fearful fundamentalism will send us next. Funny that the loci of topics look like a list or right-wing political hot button issues that define the new orthodoxy. Is the clarion call of Christian partyism bumping up against Christ's alternate kingdom?
Unfortunately, from what I have seen from the Dailywire lately is that most hosts and personalities dig in their heels and refuse to admit when they are wrong. I hope Basham will retract her statements.
wait till you find out about who owns the daily wire... and andrew klavan and his kids... and ben shapiro... and why they kicked out candace owens...believe me you should not be listening to daily wire
As somebody who is not from US, it is clear to me and to many others that evangelical Christianity in US is getting heavily influenced by the sociology of contemporary modern politics. That is not a good sign. Thank you Dr. Ortlund for pointing it out. Hopefully many other evangelical leaders in US would speak against it.
As a young 20-something-year-old American, I can confidently say that this is one of the biggest reasons people on both sides of the political division don't even want to approach the idea of Jesus.
This is why we must read books outside of our times! As a conservative American who has come to learn more of the theological and philosophical "political playing fields", it is true. Many of my brothers and sisters are simply unaware of the metaphysics behind positions and how they correspond to systems of thought.
To be fair though, her sentiments in the book are well founded. Political leftist activism is highly culturally caustic to Christianity and there are mountains of examples of polemical appropriation and subversion of Christian themes and authority for political power. Liberation theology exists because of weaponizing Christian concepts and sentiments to turn Christians into Marxist radicals. Multiple Latin American revolutions were motivated by this perversion of Christian sentiment. But this observation she makes is illogically applied to Ortlund. Ortlund is NOT "that guy".
Gavin, we appreciate your ministry Sir. You’ve honestly brought me from a hyper conservative Christian who was puffed up with knowledge, to a humbled Christian in search of wisdom. We need to not die on certain hills.
Gavin, I've been following you for over a year now. God bless you and your ministry. I would not be where I am today were it not for your work and resources. We are with you. Do not be discouraged.
And sukve then she's done nothing but double down against Ortlund. Shes using his complaints as proof he's a sellout.... essentially the "doth protest too much" argument. Ironically hes only put out 2 short videos. She's posted on X about it nearly 100 times. Somebody is protesting too much and its not Gavin. 🙄
I like to listen to Dr Ortland and find him really insightful as a Protestant trying to think through things, but I also think Meghan’s book is very needed. In the leadership of “big Eva” there is a serious problem. Maybe she was a bit hard on Dr Ortland.
@@danie-v2o I listened to the book on Audible. I have also observed where most popular Evangelicalism has gone - and it mostly seems like it’s gone in the direction of seeking approval and acceptance in mainline society. When I listened to Dr Ortlund’s message on global warming, her response didn’t seem too far off - on that particular video. I don’t think that means I need to completely disregard everything else he has to say. In that regard, I think she is wrong. I came away from that chapter in her book questioning Dr Ortlund a bit. I think it came away as guilt by association. But really, she only mentioned him in one small place in the book and his one video about global warming. Overall though, her premise seems pretty solid - there are people with big money and power trying to steer the nation and the world in a direction of their choosing. Those people see American Christianity as an impediment to their plans. Some leaders in big American Christian organizations, denominations, and academic institutions have fallen under the influence of the money, power and prestige that these people provide and have adopted stances that fall in line with their wants. She pretty clearly shows this in the book.
Thank you so much for making a response! I had bought her book after listening to Alisa Childers interview with her. Just to let you know that there have been many comments in that thread calling for her to repent and make a public apology to you. I hope and pray she does, Allie Beth Stuckey posted and interview with her on the same book, I left a comment for both Childers and Stuckey to watch your response, hope they do.
Wondering if you would reconsider a dialog with Megan Basham on this incident... not to sort through climate change, but to challenge Christians on how to disagree. Your insight into Christian dialog is very valuable. And people, like Megan Basham and all of us listening, can learn from it.
I'd 💯 assume he's dien for it. Hes all about irenic dialog. Unfortunately she's not, and she's already doubled down and attacked Gavin further since then. This is a hill she REALLY wants to die on.
@@MsGardener77 why would you even talk with such an evil person, a so called reformed Calvinist that uses everything in her power to twist words to fit her narrative?
No, Megan is correct. Gavin clearly does not understand science or he wouldn't claim that a consensus is how scientists come to conclusions. And he is wrong the "consensus" is smoke and mirrors. Don't listen to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He is not an meteorologist. Randy Marsh is about as good a source.
Be encouraged Dr. Ortlund. Your gracious and measured response here to her book is proof in and of itself of your character. People who have followed your work know what you really stand for. Keep going brother, we need voices like yours. You have certainly been a blessing to me
It is really interesting on the triage note that one of the highlighted editorial reviews on the book's Amazon page is by Ben Shapiro....who happens to reject Christian orthodoxy. It blows me away that she is willing to push an endorsement from a non-Christian who happens to be on the right politically, about a book that is chastising Christian pastors for compromising their beliefs. It is fascinating that she does not consider leveraging that endorsement for book sales compromise, but she does see Gavin's one video on the climate conversation as compromise.
I have admired and respected you since watching you debate Jimmy Atkin some years back. As a Catholic I have always found your work educational and inspiring, even when I have not agreed with you. Your work will outlast this petty attack. God bless you.
I appreciate you responding to these critiques. It is important to do so to preserve and in a way protect the years of hardwork behind your body of work.
This is really unfortunate because I think she uncovers a lot of important connections in her book, but unsubstantiated claims like these are going to backfire and sink its credibility.
I would question whether the "important connections" are true and ethically and honestly represented. Unless you can follow the trail and interview the people who would answer that, examine the documents, and ask your own questions of the sources, you don't know that those "important connections" exist as Basham apparently claims.
"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people". Romans 16:17-18
I think that the main problem with these types of interactions from fundamentalist is the assumption of motives . It is essentially, “they are not coming to the same conclusions that I am therefore their motivations must be corrupt.” And that is just not mature and does not consider the diversity of thought and conviction that Scripture seemingly goes out of its way to allow for.
I think it is more a skepticism created when someone uses left-wing newspeak like "Climate Change". It is disappointing to see such an obvious mischaracterization of Gavin, though.
The Scripture does NOT "goes out of its way to allow for" different interpretations. The variety of human interpretations is due to man's sinful nature, not because the Scripture attributing different interpretations. That's the very thing Jesus, Paul, and Peter fought for.
@@thomasc9036 You are doing to me what Megan did to Gavin. I did not say anything about different interpretations. You put that word in my mouth. I am talking about where the Bible explicitly teaches there is room for convictions on certain issues.
@@conradcml you painted with wide brush strokes, then in reply pinpoint focused on minor issues we can disagree on? Wide brush stroke: Scripture seemingly "goes out of its way" to allow a diversity of opinions and convictions. (Where it goes out of it's way is beyond me). Minor focus: The Bible teaches explicitly there's room for (other) convictions on certain issues. (allowing a diversity of thoughts and convictions is different interpretations, as noted by Thomasc9036). Are you referring to whether the Apostle Paul et al. is: Allowed to take a wife on tour? 1 Co 9:5 Rules of congregating? Philippians 3:16 (KJV) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Romans 14 - Where the scripture is not explicit there is room for Christian liberty. By "goes out of it's way" I mean that the issue of christian liberty and how to respond to different convictions on some issues is explicitly addressed.
Loved this response. Climate change is definitely nuanced. Most of the policies presented seem to terrible when factoring in the cost vs reward. But to deny there’s something going on is wild.
The book wasn’t written with concern for the topics covered and the subjects were not the primary targets. This book is intended to drive people in to a movement that takes a fighting posture, which I believe is contrary to the Gospel. The primary targets of her book are pastors and leaders that take a similar posture as the examples in the book. It is meant to marginalize their influence. Thankfully, our allegiance is to the King of kings, who has established an everlasting Kingdom, and this time of strife will pass away. In Christ, we can persevere through this!
I think most of us in the American church right now have a deep sense that something is wrong. I certainly have that sense myself. But we need to be careful that our reaction is not to panic and start lighting fires. Much of the rhetoric similar to the quotes you shared here strike me as coming from a place of panic and anxiety. Due to recent events, I have been thinking a great deal about how serious it is to speak in God's name something that God has not said. I pray that I do not do that. My inward sense is that it's a time for deep reflection before God, calling out to him to guide us, and trusting that if we truly wait and listen and desire to obey whatever he says, he will speak to us at the right time.
As a Baptist, I am so happy to have encountered your channel (thanks to redeemed zoomer haha) and have this source of inspiration from someone with a solid view on theology. Thank u so much! Many people watch your channel and would never have heard about this quite political book
The fact that you are painted as a “shepherd for hire” is simply outrageous. Thank you for modeling charity and humility throughout this video, Dr. Ortlund. You are an example to the rest of us of responding with kindness to false accusations. Bless you 🙏
He wasn’t painted that way. His words and original video were used to describe how some pastors have gotten caught up in making social issues become moral ones. He did that exact thing in his climate change video. His two videos here in response to the book are just a smokescreen and are a distraction from what’s really revealed in the other chapters. His portion is such a tiny one for this great of a reaction. Odd behavior from a pastor…
Truth is SO important. Thank you for bringing this to light, i had thought about reading the book but obviously wont now. It saddens me the misrepresentation and mischaracterization of you. This is unjust.
Handled like a gentleman, brother. Pity you are having to set the record straight. Sure hope Megan offers you a public apology. Not holding my breath for it, though.
@@thomasc9036 There's nothing wrong with the title per se, but the idea that Gavin has been bought is silly. The OP is making a joke that the price for Gavin to be bought would be way too high for them to pay.
@@justusmorton6555 Well, even Gavin said the the title is hostile or divisive (can't remember the actual words he used). I understand that Gavin is offended since it is about him. However, we already have too many people in the world who love to be "offended on behalf of someone" and they flock to the Social Media. It's really sad. They violate the scriptural mandates thinking they are being "charitable" while they are divisive themselves. Just listen and learn and ask questions without accusing someone without hearing from their side or doing researches themselves.
I'm so glad you made this rebuttal video explaining your position and the dangerous misrepresentation of your character. I was honestly shocked to see accusations of you being sold out for anyone else but Christ and your wife. May God bless you!
I have not agreed with you (again) on some political opinions, but to say you’ve compromised or have been drifting into some form of theological liberalism is intellectually dishonest. You are a prime example of valuing balanced theological conservatism OVER any political or cultural conservatism. Her perspective on this is so separate from scripture, and makes so many assumptions based on where she is politically and culturally. Thank you for all that you do, stay balanced and hold fast to God’s Word ❤️
Dr. Ortlund is definitely theologically liberal. Maybe not in a far-left sense, but he's consistently argued against almost all historical stances of the church apart from a small handful of what he views as fundamental doctrines (the Trinity, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, and Gods omnipotence).
@@etheretherether Something being a "historic view" meaning amongst doctrines that your camp likes. And since when did history become the prime hermeneutic?
@@etheretherether A major emphasis on Gavin's ministry is what he calls "Theological retrieval" or in simpler terms "reclaiming historical protestantism". You'll need to really define what you mean when you say he's argued against "almost all historical stances of the church". He's a protestant apologist and a reformed baptistic minister.
Gavin, I’m a conservative Protestant pastor, trained at Cedarville University, also very conservative, and I think you’re above reproach completely. Your theology, your demeanor, the clarity in your videos. Seriously, I’m stunned by this woman’s book.
@@daveonezero6258 1 Tim 3:2”Therefore an overseer MUST be above reproach” Titus 1:5 “This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you- if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,…etc. etc.” Titus 1:7 “For an overseer, as God’s steward, MUST be above reproach.”….God’s word is not ridiculous and does not demand ridiculous things.
You’re stunned that a scientifically ignorant religious fundamentalist, conspiracy theorist, and hardcore MAGA cultist would slander someone who doesn’t agree with her on every single point of rightwing extremist dogma?
Dr. Ortlund, I know it can be discouraging to be (unfairly) critiqued in this way, but I wanted to thank you for the work you do. Like you, I've dealt with a lot of angst in regards to my faith. But thanks to you and other apologetic UA-cam channels, I've been able to overcome that angst and doubt, and my faith is now far stronger than it's ever been. You're work is truly a blessing to the church, and the gentleness with which you always speak is something I wholly believe the church needs more of right now. God bless you.
Gavin, this hurts my heart. I feel like she had a forgone conclusion in her mind that some pastors are promoting climate change policy, did a quick search on UA-cam, and your video came up. And, it seems like to me that the only thing she has ever heard from you is that one video that she tries to manipulate to prove her point. If she would have took the time to figure out who you are and what your ministry is about, she wouldn't have even considered putting you in the book. Just know that those of us who have watched your content for a few years now know where your heart is. THank you for continuing to be faithful to our Lord. And, please, don't change a thing.
Not only have Christians never agreed on everything, none of us will enter glory to discover all our beliefs were correct. While we are to love the truth, defend the faith, and strive to rightly divide the Word of God, we should recognize that faith in Christ, not the unreachable perfection of doctrine, is what makes us right with God. Therefore, humility, kindness, patience, respect, etc. are called for when disagreeing with other Christians. You were right to defend yourself from the accusations and did so with humility and respect.
I went to post a review on her book and Amazon had a pop up saying it noticed unusual activity on her book reviews so they are not currently allowing reviews on it. Interesting. In reading some of the 1 star reviews, I saw Ortlund mentioned multiple times.
Thank you so much for this clarification! I’m half way through this book and wow.. let The undiscerning mind beware! When she started in on you in the first chapter, I couldn’t believe it. Thanks again ; I appreciate Truth Unites and your work!
Wow gavin!! So many opponents!!!. And you always defend your points with grace and logic and come out winning!. Be encouraged, you are doing something great. One of the very best protestant apologists, i know you will be alright, brother. Thank you for defending our protestant faith. God bless😊😊
Basham's book is disappointing. We cannot treat one another like this when we disagree; as Christ-followers, we know there is a better way. What she presented about you is a form of slander. I appreciate your gracious but firm response. Praying that we find a better way to discuss issues that we disagree on.
"Surely they want to truth to be told?" Unless they are trying to sell books, in which case inflaming passions is often more profitable than accuracy. Selling to a predefined niche with an established outlook makes those profits more certain.
Appreciate your response. That the book was even allowed to be published, considering how untruthful it is, is frustrating. Most of the endorsements on the book are expected, but a few of them caught me off guard. Truly sad and infuriating.
@@pamelaw1857 It's not about differing opinions; it's about the intentional falsehoods, bad research, misquotations that many have pointed out in the book. The publisher shouldn't have allowed that to happen.
What is the definition of "fundamentalist"? I tend to hear that word thrown around as a Boogeyman word... It's generally an insult used to dismiss the other party.
Excellent calm and measured response, your point is very clearly demonstrated. Wonderful you could show such grace in the face of this frustrating unfairness
I want to be very careful to not insult the author of this book because I do not want to seem petty but I SINCERELY cannot see a way that something THIS erroneous gets penned without it reflecting poorly on the author. I cannot, in good faith, say I can find a way to charitably engage with content like this when it is so carelessly written. If someone is trying to critique ministers they’d better make sure they’re writing above board in every way and this book just fails from the outset.
It's weird because I think what she is trying to critique is the way he could be seen as trying to paint all who disagree with his view as being politically motivated, which people in Ortlund's circles definitely do, but the video she cited doesn't really do that. It seems clumsy to me.
@@Constructing_Christianityyeah it wouldn’t shock me. I want to believe that some lesser, more precise offense was intended but the level of dialogue is so beneath the dignity of everyone involved at this point I have little hope for it creating more light than heat. At least the regular listeners of Dr. Ortlund seem to be engaging constructively here.
It grieves me that you've been attacked so unfairly. I pray and trust that the Lord will let her slanderous lies fall on deaf ears. Thank you for your faithful work and clear teaching on theological triage. 🙏
I rarely agree with you on theology (hello, from a Catholic brother), but this video I agree with you on fully. I watch your content often and none of her charges either generally or specific to the video she references are borne our in reality. I pray the truth would be evident to all who read the book and see your content. God Bless
As a follower of you from Spain in Europe I am very sorry that you have to go through this and that you have to waste your precious time in defending from these false and stupid acusition. It is thanks to you (and to Leonardo de Chirico) that I have adquire enough knowledge to enter into debate with many catholic peope and show them the ways of the Lord. Your work has been a blessing to me and has equipped me to be a blessing to others.
Just pre-ordered your new book! Thankful for your ministry Gavin! Hopefully the Daily Wire addresses this false journalism. That "quote" on page 26 is atrocious and should not have passed the editor or publisher, let alone the author.
Gavin, your witness is on display consistently as you show grace, humility, and integrity in every video. Those who disagree on topics of theology and ministry see it just as well as those who agree. Anyone who aims to resemble Christ online can discern quickly that Megan has a habit of angsty, unthoughtful, and awkward writing. Megan Basham is not someone who we should take seriously on simple issues which she gets so wrong so often. I write that while truly putting aside her politics. Her general posture, her assessment of you, and more speaks to her lack of credibility and discernment on a basic level.
I'm so sorry that we as Christians behave this way 😢 also I seen about you on Alisa Childers podcast and then when I went to the comment section I decided to go to your channel as there always other side to things ,again sorry brother that you've been misrepresented and I hope they can apologize to you as well. As true mature Christian they claim to be.
A little late to the game but just wanted to chime in and let you know that you have another sister in Christ praying for you. Since I came across your work, you have been a Christian leader that I look to when aiming for unity within the church. You + your brother have been such a blessing within my faith walk. And I am not a calvinist - so that says a lot! ;) What the enemy intends for evil in this moment, I believe the Lord will use for good. You being placed in this book, at this exact moment in time, in many ways feels random (and unwarranted). I don't quite understand why this is happening but when I shift my eyes to Jesus Christ's heart for humanity, God's sovereignty and the story of Joseph, I begin to think of all the lives that have the potential to be impacted for eternity through your response along with biblically sound content now being highlighted. The fact that the Lord would allow one of His children whose UA-cam page is literally called Truth Unites to be thrown into the middle of a controversial conversation has me believing that the Lord is up to something. As Christians we have one real enemy and it is not each other. I am sorry you are going through this right now and will continue to pray for you! May the Lord be glorified in all things! :)
Thanks for responding, Gavin! It is SO disheartening to see this book being promoted and praised by Christians. Indeed, this is not the way! Such bad faith. It is unreal to me that heresy hunting pays such dividends. Lord help us to show the world how to love the way you love, with truth AND grace.
It’s through your polite and courteous way of arguing, helped me see beyond the argument and how to respond in a practical and gracious way. Keep modelling it!! Because you always point it back to God and showcase all of His attributes. Thank you!
You treat the topic very well. It takes a very serious scientist to judge this climate change. I listen to smart people on both sides like Sabine Hossenfelder who is pro climate change. I also listen to MIT atmospheric physicist Dr Richard Lindzen and John Christy of Alabama State Climatologist who pioneered satellite remote sensing of global climate. (John is a Christian) They both believe the climate is warming to some degree, but are very skeptical of this end of civilization exaggeration. What we need is someone like James Tour who challenged the origin of life narrative where he asked top origin of life researchers 5 questions on origin of life. If they can answer just one, he will take down all his videos. None of the scientists can answer a single question. So that was the end of that. Scientist were very mad, and they attacked James with gossip just like Megan is doing here. So that reveals a lot to us. We don't have someone like that yet on climate change.
Very much appreciate the measured response given the level and type of criticism. Being faithful is the best response to false accusations. Further up and further in.
I asked Allie Beth Stuckey to invite you onto her podcast. I hope that she would give you a fair chance to defend yourself on the same platform that she just gave Megan.
Dr. Ortlund, I was hoping you’d make a video about this. I was even going to try to contact you somehow in order to convince you so I am relieved to see you made this video! I listened to Alisa Childers interview of Basham the other day and it just felt off until she started more or less implying some prominent evangelicals who are not big fans of the current GOP nominee are not saved. I have voted red since I started to vote, I am considering voting for DJT in November, but I have no allegiance except to the Lamb. It grieves me to think this is the state of evangelicalism. It seems like a blend of political and theological fundamentalism is the new norm. How can we say that people who believe in the inspiration and inerrancy of scripture, the Trinity, the life, death, burial, resurrection, and future return of Christ, in His exclusivity, in the sanctity of life and marriage as defined by Christian orthodoxy etc, like yourself or Dr. Moore or Tim Keller, God rest his soul, are sell outs? This is a dangerous narrative honestly. Our Christianity should inform our politics, our politics should not inform our Christianity…
I might be one of the few viewers who has engaged with Basham’s book. I don’t think the point of the climate change section was to argue for a specific conclusion re. manmade climate change. I think the point Basham is making is that some people in the church are elevating climate change to an undue position. She asserts that is intentional and often done with financial support from non-Christian organizations that have goals contrary to the flourishing of the faith. She also notes that there is a whole swath of people who are downstream from that. My read of the book placed Gavin firmly in the downstream category. These are not people who are receiving funds to spread messages (or even open to it!) but who have been influenced by primary movers (at seminary, parachurch ministries, direct contact, etc.). They’re swimming in waters full of this stuff, and they’re impacted (hear enough people you respect say [insert liberal talking point here]…). To be clear, the picture painted of this category (I’ve not finished listening to the book) is not flattering: people very eager for the approval of the world (read: elites) and to not be viewed as “that kind” of Christian (read: foolish, embarrassing fundamentalists). As I watch this analysis though, I am deeply troubled by the assertions Megan made regarding Gavin. I’m going to have to rewatch everything at length, but for a book that is claiming to “bring receipts,” it seems like she caught a vibe and then cobbled together something to reflect it. I think Gavin has every right to feel misrepresented, and it’s sad that this came from a sister. I’m a bit flummoxed about how to view the book now. I did find elements of the book to be true and helpful (the Covid stuff had me repenting of a lot of attitudes I had early in the pandemic, and thinking of people I need to apologize to), but this is deeply problematic.
Woof, not sure why my other comment isn't showing up: but Megan did confirm on X (in a reply to one of Gavin's posts) that she didn't claim Gavin was "for sale." Her full post: "They weren't. At all. I showed who was for sale in that chapter and don't even imply that this was Orland's motivation." This went up before the video, and I'm sure Gavin saw it since he responded to the string and then deleted his tweet. I think it would be helpful for Gavin to acknowledge that (his other points still stand!) in the spirit of honesty and transparency. If he needs additional clarity, then he can certainly as for it.
I've also read a good part of it and have to agree with you. Where she is citing public records about funding I'm guessing there is a lot of truth to what she is saying, and that truth is deeply problematic. It then seems she ruined it by trying to formulate a narrative that isn't nearly as solid as tracking the money itself.
@@edr245@edr245 She writes a book with the topic and title of "Pastors for Sale", gives Mr. Ordlund an entire chapter, the first one, iirc. She then maliciously twists his words to imply he dismisses any opposition as "hoax" and "conspiracy theories" and words, and now someone points it out, she pretends she never meant to say he's for sale? No way we should now all pretend she never meant any harm. Instead of admitting her mistakes, intentional misrepresentations, her slander and apologizing, she seems to want us to forget about them. Gavin would be fully in his rights to request she takes back not just the "for sale" accusation, but all the other things too. It often seems in the current discourse as if ideology has replaced religion. So much of this toxic stuff.
@@rolandxb3581 Brother, I have no desire to quarrel with you. Gavin has specific claims that are worthy of answer. I think Megan overstates things about him, but I also think Gavin overstates the claims made about him in this book. I am not trying to make an equivalency between the weight of those claims. I am acknowledging that his characterization does not help Christians think clearly, particularly when he knows many of his viewers haven't read the book and relying entirely on him to present the material. I read this chapter. Gavin is not the subject of chapter 1. He is a mention toward the end of a chapter to illustrate the trickle down of these ideas to popular pastors, apologists, and influencers, particularly those with connections to groups like TGC. Basham does not imply he's for sale nor does she supply a motive for his position. I do not expect you to read this book, but this was my honest read of it. I was really surprised to see some of Gavin's claims in this video because they were not at all in line with what I read. Was it an unflattering caricature? Definitely. Can he dispute the characterization? Absolutely! He has and she should answer his assertions of dishonesty. But we should ALL be careful. Hyperbole and mischaracterization can cut both ways. The wise way to answer perceived dishonesty is to call it out and await an answer (which Gavin has done in this video). I also think he steps over the line here, and I think your comment does too. I say this in love, and with an honest desire to just cool things down a little. It's fine for dishonesty and false witness to anger you (it angers the Lord!), but please don't sin in your anger.
As someone who has benefitted greatly from your ministry, and has a completely polar opinion on the issue being discussed (climate change) from you, I appreciate and agree with your defense of yourself here. She definitely is bearing false witness. People must stop gravitating toward group-think and political tribalism, and dedicate themselves to the Lord and his truth alone. God bless you and thank you for your ministry.
Alisa Childers recently interviewed Meghan Basham about this book and it showed up in my feed. I filed it away to watch later. Having watched many of your videos it's difficult to believe that you are for sale. God bless.
Hey Gavin: I'm not commenting on this particular video but on Truth Unites in general. You are the best! I am a lifetime Lutheran (LCMS) but I have always been interested in the Roman Catholic beliefs (why do they do what they do - I never really knew until I watched your videos). You are very calm, nice, fair and understanding...and without a doubt, you have an amazing PHD understanding of church history & doctrine. I have watched hours of your videos and find them fascinating. The differences in the protestant denomination beliefs seem very minor when compared to the Roman Catholic beliefs. I really like that you are trying to unite ALL Christians. I wish we could all be one big happy family. Thanks for all that you do!
I have a lot of thoughts but, as a teacher, I see a failure of education to teach responsible scholarship and research to students. Her lack of careful representation of views seems to be closer to the way "woke" professors do scholarship than she probably realizes.
Courage and resilience, paired with humility, are traits we desperately need in the church and beyond right now, and you model all three especially well in this video. Thank you for your continued ministry!
You have been such a blessing to me Gavin. Keep up the good work. God used you to clear up literal decades of anxiety over the RC/EO/Protestant question! (I am a convinced Protestant!)
Jesus commanded that we must always try to resolve our grievances with each other PRIVATELY before involving others (Matt 18:15-17); Megan should’ve talked with you privately about her concerns in good faith before deciding to attack you in a public book.
Thank you for your ministry, Dr. Ortlund. May God bless you and your family, and may the ideas you promote, and more importantly, the way you promote them, flourish and drown out silly nonsense such as this book.
Gavin, you should reach out to Alisa Childer's and have a conversation with her as she had Megan Basham on her channel. I have a lot of respect for both you and Alisa.
She works at Daily Wire and she's the one pointing fingers at sellouts? Where does her money come from? Also I'm increasingly less and less a fan of political/cultural "commentators" speaking into theology with little to no theological credentials. I had a rough time engaging with people at my church over Rosaria Butterfield's 5 Lies because even though she makes bold, and generally true claims, it was theologically fairly sloppy and in my opinion not especially helpful. And I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Just because someone knows about politics doesn't mean they are qualified to speak with the same authority on doctrine. Also, the same bombastic and snarky rhetoric that plays well in political and cultural commentary isn't generally the best approach to disagreement in the Church. A few people in church history pulled it off, but it usually misses the mark.
@2wheelz3504 I agree with RB. I just don't think she did a good job helping other people arrive at the same conclusions. If she had used clearer theological categories and explained the historical and scriptural foundations of her positions it would have been a way more helpful book. I think her lack of theological training limited her ability to do so. I'm not attacking RB. I'm critiquing her.
@@2wheelz3504You are missing the connection. The new fundamentalists (represented by Butterfield and Basham) are unfairly and inaccurately critiquing evangelicals (like Keller and Ortlund). When they distort and slander good men we need to call a spade a spade. The critics of the critiquers are responsive. The difference is real, not imagined.
@@2wheelz3504 Your bias is what’s showing poorly. I’m not claiming to be unbiased, but to be speaking relevant truth into the issue. Paul was accurate when he called out Peter. He didn’t misquote. He didn’t demean. He didn’t call Peter a wolf. And Paul was an equal. In this case you have a political broadcaster taking on a brilliant theologian. She is shooting above her pay grade and is inaccurate to boot. You have affirmed her charges of Ortlund being a “false teacher” (your words)! Wow! That’s a description the NT writers use of unsaved wolves! You are agreeing that of Ortland’s many hundreds of theological teachings, that one off the cuff consideration of a political issue makes him a heretic? And you call this debate that should continue? No, this is out of context slander! This grieves the heart of God! It’s completely against the prayer of Jesus in John 17. This is politicized Christians being worldly!
It's interesting how polarisation in the US, being as outlandish as it is, nurtures the kind of environment where extreme lefts and rights go so far off as to the point of start looking eye-to-eye regarding intellectual dishonesty and tactics.
This was hard to watch. I was hoping that it would be a case of "borderline" misrepresentation on her part, but sadly that was not the case. Although it was hard to watch, I'm glad that you did respond. Thank you for all you continue to do.
Personally, I’ve always loved your soothing tones, preppy guru style, hushed voice, and laid back Ventura county style.
lol!!
I claim here that Esther is highly biased and colluding with the Enemy !!
Certainly can't blame you. 😅😊
But to you really want a hypnotist selling you Coffehouse Calvinism? That's the gateway drug to the Real Deal, which is something no sober person could want
The Queen has spoken! 🔥🔥
Fantastic 😂😂
As a Christian from Africa who follows and listens to many American preachers and follows a little bit of American politics, I am quite wary of where American Christianity is heading. I don't know about the grassroots Christianity of the faithful and small churches aiming to serve God but for the ones we see on this side of the world, it is shocking to me how much political views from both the left and right influence American churches and personalities. Some people are literally questioning people's salvation based on how Trumpian they are or how liberally inclusive they are. That's just poor.
We make gods of politics without realizing it. Please pray for us.
As an American, I think people unwittingly worship politicians and ideologies instead of God, even if they say they worship God and love Jesus. In this country, politics, sex, and money are generally the only things average people talk about.
Yes it is all horribly true.. The American evangelical Downgrade is great, a shame and sorrowful. Please African Christians, send as many solid Reformed missionaries over here as soon as possible, as prophets are not accepted in our country. Your influence by the Lord's grace and power could/would be mighty and could work some wonders..
Much of (perhaps most of?) popular American Christianity is heading nowhere good. Power corrupts. It is wise to be wary, sir. God have mercy, but I believe we are quite worldly. That being said, there are many unknown Christians in America meeting in homes and obscure churches who are wise to this foolishness. Either we will repent or God will judge us with our own arrogance.
American Christianity had always been first and foremost a tool of imperialism. There are relatively few Christians in America who follow Christ. In my experience it is a fascist movement and has been for at least 40 years.
-PhD in historical theology
-Father of 5
-Complimentarian
-Preaches that Jesus is the only way to salvation
-Baptist Pastor
-Made 1 video on climate change = flaming liberal, who piggy-banks the IPCC 🤦🏻
Yep, there is apparently an "orthodoxy" out there in Megan Basham's world that one can not step out of without getting thrown under a bus.
And this is why he is right to call it fundamentalism, not evangelicalism. Fundamentalists are absolutist about non-central issues. They can't accept someone as a faithful brother if he has any view they disagree with on any issue, no matter how tiny. He is right to see this as a theological triage issue.
THe only way he sint super conservative is that he isnt a YEC. But, come on.
Sure but isn't the premise of Megan's book just that evangelicals have compromised on issues when they step out of the evangel. So pointing out that he is evangelical kind of misses the point.
Yeah LOL
as someone who heard Gavin preach every Sunday for over a year in Ojai, I never heard him mention climate change once outside of the video in question.
I’ve heard every sermon he’s ever preached in 17 years, and never once has he mentioned it in a sermon.
As someone who heard Gavin's thoughts since birth, he never even thought of climate change outside the video in question.
The video in question is bad enough.
@@KristiLinauer oh hey! How are you? Did you watch this response video you're commenting on?
@@KristiLinauerbad enough to... what exactly?
Disagreement without slander. This should not be too much to ask for. Especially among family.
What's wrong with slander? Jesus slandered Pharisees and so did Peter, John, and Paul. There is nothing wrong with slanders if it is the truth. Too many American Christians think "niceness" is the best thing. No, it's not. It's the truthfulness. Why do you think Ortlund is making this video? He is slandering Megan for her alleged falseness.
Where was he slandered?
@@skyred2 If you watched the whole video you would see it pretty clearly.
@@TacoTuesday4 I saw a video of Gavin defending himself, I did not see evidence of slander. If I'm wrong I'm open to be corrected, but Gavin showing different videos of himself, selected by himself does not prove slander by Megan but as I've said I'm open to and welcome correction.
@@skyred2 Last time I checked on how to quite things: only put in quotation marks what was actually said and then give a source. If you need to insert or explain words, you use these bracets []. If you misquoted someone in a way like that, it can sometimes be as bad as to libel. Just saying. This can be very bad.
This is just disappointing… this is what happens when political views become our hermeneutics rather than the Bible. Thank you for your work Gavin, and for always standing for the truth in an Irenic way
I’ve been listening to the book and it has accurately described my experience in my evangelical church of left wing politics becoming hermaneutics and push back against such being deemed as “inserting politics”. It’s a shame that she seems to have mischaracterized Gavin here (and possible others, though I haven’t finished) because I believe the central thesis of her book is accurate. I would love to see her both speak to Gavin and give a correction to any misrepresentations she had written and not double down, as is so popular nowadays.
Ever since the satanic cult of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man was introduced five hundred years ago many idiots like Calvin Smythe Zwingli Henry Ellen Knox Wesley Russell etc started to interpret the Bible on their own wild imagination and even adding their wishful thinking or twisting historical facts or even worse they even tried to manipulate the holy Bible itself in order to make their satanic theology fit into it and after five centuries by now around fifty thousand heretic crooks like Ortlund are doing all sorts of nonsense and contradicting each other all the time rendering Christianity itself into chaotic anarchism but they are united for one thing that is to destroy the Church of saints that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but nothing happened to it for the last two thousand years and will remain till Jesus comes back because Jesus himself promised to Peter saying no gates of hell will prevail against it
I don't think Megan misrepresented him at all. You should research this more. Galvin is SO gaslighting in this video.
Making politics your hermeneutic- you totally nailed it. And people on both sides do this. I was at a church where the pastor was talking about political statues. So bizarre!
@@PuzzlesC4M this is exactly what the devil might have in mind while designing the satanic cult a perfect blueprint for chaotic anarchism
My precious college senior granddaughter pointed me to your channel as a rational intellectual source to help her navigate her growing faith in Jesus Christ. I haven’t been disappointed. We use some of your videos for our own discussions.
You have just answered my question half through this video. The author clearly did not speak to you before putting this book out. It calls into question whatever else she has written.
I am so thrilled my videos have been of use to you and your granddaughter. Praise God. God bless.
I'm so glad to hear your granddaughter is trying to remain grounded in her faith while at college. That's a real battleground!
As for the statement that she may not have contacted Ortland before commenting on his very public comments... When someone presents something publicly, they are inviting critique. Why should anyone have to contact Ortland first to get his approval before interacting with what he has said.
When we make public statements, particularly as a cultural or community influencer, we give our implied consent to be critiqued.
You? If I were looking for an example of what she describes I would have never picked you. Strange.
I knew you would be locked in before I even heard of this! Excited for the inevitable video.
She picked reasonable people who treat others with dignity and respect, to call in to question local shepherds who exhibit similar traits. If she picked the most egregious people, no one would see similarities with their church leaders. She also works in the book to cast shade on seminaries to create suspicion on shepherds who have studied, especially younger shepherds. This book is a call to war, a call to fight in a culture war, in a way that I believe contradicts the Gospel. The message is clear, if your church and its shepherds are not engaged in this battle, find one that is. I recommend the book Coreology as a better way to think about the times we live in from a Christ centered approach.
You don’t see how the old earth, local flood, pro-vax, pro-lockdown, climate change enthusiast might not be firing with conservative cylinders?
This is a moment I long expected to come, a canary in the coal mine of how fearful fundamentalism will send us next. Funny that the loci of topics look like a list or right-wing political hot button issues that define the new orthodoxy. Is the clarion call of Christian partyism bumping up against Christ's alternate kingdom?
I would never in a million years quote this guy as saying anything particular.
She’s literally a journalist at the Daily Wire, she wrote pages about you and she didn’t even bother to contact you? That is quite strange.
The Daily Wire isn't necessarily the cream of the crop if you're talking about honest journalism.
Unfortunately, from what I have seen from the Dailywire lately is that most hosts and personalities dig in their heels and refuse to admit when they are wrong. I hope Basham will retract her statements.
She is not a journalist.
wait till you find out about who owns the daily wire... and andrew klavan and his kids... and ben shapiro... and why they kicked out candace owens...believe me you should not be listening to daily wire
Referring to Megan as a journalist is far too generous.
As somebody who is not from US, it is clear to me and to many others that evangelical Christianity in US is getting heavily influenced by the sociology of contemporary modern politics. That is not a good sign. Thank you Dr. Ortlund for pointing it out. Hopefully many other evangelical leaders in US would speak against it.
As a young 20-something-year-old American, I can confidently say that this is one of the biggest reasons people on both sides of the political division don't even want to approach the idea of Jesus.
so true, the right as well as the left in the US
This is why we must read books outside of our times! As a conservative American who has come to learn more of the theological and philosophical "political playing fields", it is true. Many of my brothers and sisters are simply unaware of the metaphysics behind positions and how they correspond to systems of thought.
It’s not just religious conservatives; you could argue it’s even worse on the left.
To be fair though, her sentiments in the book are well founded. Political leftist activism is highly culturally caustic to Christianity and there are mountains of examples of polemical appropriation and subversion of Christian themes and authority for political power.
Liberation theology exists because of weaponizing Christian concepts and sentiments to turn Christians into Marxist radicals. Multiple Latin American revolutions were motivated by this perversion of Christian sentiment.
But this observation she makes is illogically applied to Ortlund. Ortlund is NOT "that guy".
Gavin, we appreciate your ministry Sir. You’ve honestly brought me from a hyper conservative Christian who was puffed up with knowledge, to a humbled Christian in search of wisdom.
We need to not die on certain hills.
Wow. Never would have imagined you as a target. Take heart Gavin. Many of us appreciate you and all the work you are doing.
Gavin, I've been following you for over a year now. God bless you and your ministry. I would not be where I am today were it not for your work and resources. We are with you. Do not be discouraged.
I don't think Megan exactly found the "right hill to die on" with this.
And sukve then she's done nothing but double down against Ortlund. Shes using his complaints as proof he's a sellout.... essentially the "doth protest too much" argument.
Ironically hes only put out 2 short videos. She's posted on X about it nearly 100 times.
Somebody is protesting too much and its not Gavin. 🙄
You didn’t read the book, did you?
I like to listen to Dr Ortland and find him really insightful as a Protestant trying to think through things, but I also think Meghan’s book is very needed. In the leadership of “big Eva” there is a serious problem. Maybe she was a bit hard on Dr Ortland.
@@GenericHandle54321how could you even trust what she has written!? That’s the point 👀
@@danie-v2o I listened to the book on Audible. I have also observed where most popular Evangelicalism has gone - and it mostly seems like it’s gone in the direction of seeking approval and acceptance in mainline society. When I listened to Dr Ortlund’s message on global warming, her response didn’t seem too far off - on that particular video. I don’t think that means I need to completely disregard everything else he has to say. In that regard, I think she is wrong. I came away from that chapter in her book questioning Dr Ortlund a bit. I think it came away as guilt by association. But really, she only mentioned him in one small place in the book and his one video about global warming.
Overall though, her premise seems pretty solid - there are people with big money and power trying to steer the nation and the world in a direction of their choosing. Those people see American Christianity as an impediment to their plans. Some leaders in big American Christian organizations, denominations, and academic institutions have fallen under the influence of the money, power and prestige that these people provide and have adopted stances that fall in line with their wants. She pretty clearly shows this in the book.
Thank you so much for making a response! I had bought her book after listening to Alisa Childers interview with her.
Just to let you know that there have been many comments in that thread calling for her to repent and make a public apology to you. I hope and pray she does,
Allie Beth Stuckey posted and interview with her on the same book, I left a comment for both Childers and Stuckey to watch your response, hope they do.
Unfortunately, their silence probably tells you everything you need to know.
Wondering if you would reconsider a dialog with Megan Basham on this incident... not to sort through climate change, but to challenge Christians on how to disagree. Your insight into Christian dialog is very valuable. And people, like Megan Basham and all of us listening, can learn from it.
I sincerely doubt she will agree to a conversation, but it's worth a try
I'd 💯 assume he's dien for it. Hes all about irenic dialog.
Unfortunately she's not, and she's already doubled down and attacked Gavin further since then.
This is a hill she REALLY wants to die on.
@@MsGardener77 why would you even talk with such an evil person, a so called reformed Calvinist that uses everything in her power to twist words to fit her narrative?
I think she would.
@@TheNutmegStitcher it's been two weeks you're delusional
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." --- Exodus 20:16. // Reading how Megan doubles down on X is sad.
No, Megan is correct. Gavin clearly does not understand science or he wouldn't claim that a consensus is how scientists come to conclusions. And he is wrong the "consensus" is smoke and mirrors. Don't listen to Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He is not an meteorologist. Randy Marsh is about as good a source.
Be encouraged Dr. Ortlund. Your gracious and measured response here to her book is proof in and of itself of your character. People who have followed your work know what you really stand for. Keep going brother, we need voices like yours. You have certainly been a blessing to me
It is really interesting on the triage note that one of the highlighted editorial reviews on the book's Amazon page is by Ben Shapiro....who happens to reject Christian orthodoxy. It blows me away that she is willing to push an endorsement from a non-Christian who happens to be on the right politically, about a book that is chastising Christian pastors for compromising their beliefs. It is fascinating that she does not consider leveraging that endorsement for book sales compromise, but she does see Gavin's one video on the climate conversation as compromise.
I have admired and respected you since watching you debate Jimmy Atkin some years back. As a Catholic I have always found your work educational and inspiring, even when I have not agreed with you. Your work will outlast this petty attack. God bless you.
I appreciate you responding to these critiques. It is important to do so to preserve and in a way protect the years of hardwork behind your body of work.
I hope her readers now check out his site
I am gobsmacked
Why? Seems like you are telling him to preserve his worldy possessions.
This is really unfortunate because I think she uncovers a lot of important connections in her book, but unsubstantiated claims like these are going to backfire and sink its credibility.
I would question whether the "important connections" are true and ethically and honestly represented. Unless you can follow the trail and interview the people who would answer that, examine the documents, and ask your own questions of the sources, you don't know that those "important connections" exist as Basham apparently claims.
It's not the credibility of the book that worries. It's that everyone involved goes down.
This hurts my heart. Praying for you and Meghan! Such a disheartening, sloppy, ignorant and libelous thing to claim, let alone publish in a book!
"I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people". Romans 16:17-18
I'd say dispensationalist fall into that category more than reformed calvanists. Can we talk about Israel like adults?
I think that the main problem with these types of interactions from fundamentalist is the assumption of motives . It is essentially, “they are not coming to the same conclusions that I am therefore their motivations must be corrupt.” And that is just not mature and does not consider the diversity of thought and conviction that Scripture seemingly goes out of its way to allow for.
I think it is more a skepticism created when someone uses left-wing newspeak like "Climate Change". It is disappointing to see such an obvious mischaracterization of Gavin, though.
The Scripture does NOT "goes out of its way to allow for" different interpretations. The variety of human interpretations is due to man's sinful nature, not because the Scripture attributing different interpretations. That's the very thing Jesus, Paul, and Peter fought for.
@@thomasc9036 You are doing to me what Megan did to Gavin. I did not say anything about different interpretations. You put that word in my mouth. I am talking about where the Bible explicitly teaches there is room for convictions on certain issues.
@@conradcml you painted with wide brush strokes, then in reply pinpoint focused on minor issues we can disagree on?
Wide brush stroke: Scripture seemingly "goes out of its way" to allow a diversity of opinions and convictions. (Where it goes out of it's way is beyond me).
Minor focus: The Bible teaches explicitly there's room for (other) convictions on certain issues. (allowing a diversity of thoughts and convictions is different interpretations, as noted by Thomasc9036).
Are you referring to whether the Apostle Paul et al. is:
Allowed to take a wife on tour? 1 Co 9:5
Rules of congregating?
Philippians 3:16 (KJV) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Romans 14 - Where the scripture is not explicit there is room for Christian liberty.
By "goes out of it's way" I mean that the issue of christian liberty and how to respond to different convictions on some issues is explicitly addressed.
Loved this response. Climate change is definitely nuanced. Most of the policies presented seem to terrible when factoring in the cost vs reward. But to deny there’s something going on is wild.
Very graceful. Gavin dropping the hammer is really just him calling someone "dishonest" after a 30min explanation.
He’s being nicer than me. I say she’s a liar.
i googled and found quoted sections of her book claims on dr keller, and the specific quotes (with context)
she's a liar.
@@joelw1730 if I were Gavin, I would contact the publisher and ask for the book to be recalled
The book wasn’t written with concern for the topics covered and the subjects were not the primary targets. This book is intended to drive people in to a movement that takes a fighting posture, which I believe is contrary to the Gospel. The primary targets of her book are pastors and leaders that take a similar posture as the examples in the book. It is meant to marginalize their influence. Thankfully, our allegiance is to the King of kings, who has established an everlasting Kingdom, and this time of strife will pass away. In Christ, we can persevere through this!
Thank you for responding with grace and kindness Gavin. You have honored Christ with your response. Well done!
I think most of us in the American church right now have a deep sense that something is wrong. I certainly have that sense myself. But we need to be careful that our reaction is not to panic and start lighting fires. Much of the rhetoric similar to the quotes you shared here strike me as coming from a place of panic and anxiety.
Due to recent events, I have been thinking a great deal about how serious it is to speak in God's name something that God has not said. I pray that I do not do that. My inward sense is that it's a time for deep reflection before God, calling out to him to guide us, and trusting that if we truly wait and listen and desire to obey whatever he says, he will speak to us at the right time.
I heard BabylonBee interview of her. Thanks for the rebuttal. "Any story sounds true until the other side is heard."
you are missing the point of the book. He is clutching pearls and not realizing he is even being manipulated.
As a Baptist, I am so happy to have encountered your channel (thanks to redeemed zoomer haha) and have this source of inspiration from someone with a solid view on theology. Thank u so much! Many people watch your channel and would never have heard about this quite political book
The fact that you are painted as a “shepherd for hire” is simply outrageous. Thank you for modeling charity and humility throughout this video, Dr. Ortlund. You are an example to the rest of us of responding with kindness to false accusations. Bless you 🙏
That is a flat out lie Jeremy she never said that ua-cam.com/video/5bsh6y6mpdw/v-deo.htmlsi=XVZ80tPUmVmtVlSG
He wasn’t painted that way. His words and original video were used to describe how some pastors have gotten caught up in making social issues become moral ones. He did that exact thing in his climate change video. His two videos here in response to the book are just a smokescreen and are a distraction from what’s really revealed in the other chapters. His portion is such a tiny one for this great of a reaction. Odd behavior from a pastor…
Why are you falsely claiming that Megan claimed that?
@@humz403 I've read the chapter and watched his videos. I wish more people who are choosing to converse would do the same.
@kimpina5846 Yes I agree.
Truth is SO important. Thank you for bringing this to light, i had thought about reading the book but obviously wont now. It saddens me the misrepresentation and mischaracterization of you. This is unjust.
Handled like a gentleman, brother. Pity you are having to set the record straight. Sure hope Megan offers you a public apology. Not holding my breath for it, though.
Shepard for sale? Oh boy!!
Wait.......Nahh.....I couldn't afford Gavin anyways.
He's Top Shelf and likely out of my price range.....sigh..
Lol
What's wrong with the title "Shephards for Sale"?
@@thomasc9036 There's nothing wrong with the title per se, but the idea that Gavin has been bought is silly. The OP is making a joke that the price for Gavin to be bought would be way too high for them to pay.
@@justusmorton6555 Well, even Gavin said the the title is hostile or divisive (can't remember the actual words he used). I understand that Gavin is offended since it is about him. However, we already have too many people in the world who love to be "offended on behalf of someone" and they flock to the Social Media.
It's really sad. They violate the scriptural mandates thinking they are being "charitable" while they are divisive themselves. Just listen and learn and ask questions without accusing someone without hearing from their side or doing researches themselves.
And here is another who didn’t read the book.
I'm so glad you made this rebuttal video explaining your position and the dangerous misrepresentation of your character. I was honestly shocked to see accusations of you being sold out for anyone else but Christ and your wife. May God bless you!
I have not agreed with you (again) on some political opinions, but to say you’ve compromised or have been drifting into some form of theological liberalism is intellectually dishonest. You are a prime example of valuing balanced theological conservatism OVER any political or cultural conservatism.
Her perspective on this is so separate from scripture, and makes so many assumptions based on where she is politically and culturally.
Thank you for all that you do, stay balanced and hold fast to God’s Word ❤️
Dr. Ortlund is definitely theologically liberal. Maybe not in a far-left sense, but he's consistently argued against almost all historical stances of the church apart from a small handful of what he views as fundamental doctrines (the Trinity, Grace Alone, Christ Alone, and Gods omnipotence).
Consistently argued against historical doctrine? Seriously? Care to provide some actual examples?
@@etheretherether Something being a "historic view" meaning amongst doctrines that your camp likes. And since when did history become the prime hermeneutic?
@@etheretherether A major emphasis on Gavin's ministry is what he calls "Theological retrieval" or in simpler terms "reclaiming historical protestantism". You'll need to really define what you mean when you say he's argued against "almost all historical stances of the church". He's a protestant apologist and a reformed baptistic minister.
@@etheretheretherplease provide some examples of his theologically liberal positions
Gavin, I’m a conservative Protestant pastor, trained at Cedarville University, also very conservative, and I think you’re above reproach completely. Your theology, your demeanor, the clarity in your videos. Seriously, I’m stunned by this woman’s book.
That is ridiculous to call someone above reproach.
@@daveonezero6258 1 Tim 3:2”Therefore an overseer MUST be above reproach” Titus 1:5 “This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you- if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,…etc. etc.” Titus 1:7 “For an overseer, as God’s steward, MUST be above reproach.”….God’s word is not ridiculous and does not demand ridiculous things.
You’re stunned that a scientifically ignorant religious fundamentalist, conspiracy theorist, and hardcore MAGA cultist would slander someone who doesn’t agree with her on every single point of rightwing extremist dogma?
Dr. Ortlund, I know it can be discouraging to be (unfairly) critiqued in this way, but I wanted to thank you for the work you do. Like you, I've dealt with a lot of angst in regards to my faith. But thanks to you and other apologetic UA-cam channels, I've been able to overcome that angst and doubt, and my faith is now far stronger than it's ever been. You're work is truly a blessing to the church, and the gentleness with which you always speak is something I wholly believe the church needs more of right now. God bless you.
Gavin, this hurts my heart. I feel like she had a forgone conclusion in her mind that some pastors are promoting climate change policy, did a quick search on UA-cam, and your video came up. And, it seems like to me that the only thing she has ever heard from you is that one video that she tries to manipulate to prove her point. If she would have took the time to figure out who you are and what your ministry is about, she wouldn't have even considered putting you in the book.
Just know that those of us who have watched your content for a few years now know where your heart is. THank you for continuing to be faithful to our Lord. And, please, don't change a thing.
Go watch his original video and then read her book. Gavin doesn't have the STEM background to call BS on this.
Not only have Christians never agreed on everything, none of us will enter glory to discover all our beliefs were correct. While we are to love the truth, defend the faith, and strive to rightly divide the Word of God, we should recognize that faith in Christ, not the unreachable perfection of doctrine, is what makes us right with God. Therefore, humility, kindness, patience, respect, etc. are called for when disagreeing with other Christians. You were right to defend yourself from the accusations and did so with humility and respect.
I went to post a review on her book and Amazon had a pop up saying it noticed unusual activity on her book reviews so they are not currently allowing reviews on it. Interesting. In reading some of the 1 star reviews, I saw Ortlund mentioned multiple times.
Thank you so much for this clarification! I’m half way through this book and wow.. let
The undiscerning mind beware! When she started in on you in the first chapter, I couldn’t believe it. Thanks again ; I appreciate Truth Unites and your work!
Wow gavin!! So many opponents!!!. And you always defend your points with grace and logic and come out winning!. Be encouraged, you are doing something great. One of the very best protestant apologists, i know you will be alright, brother. Thank you for defending our protestant faith. God bless😊😊
Basham's book is disappointing. We cannot treat one another like this when we disagree; as Christ-followers, we know there is a better way. What she presented about you is a form of slander. I appreciate your gracious but firm response. Praying that we find a better way to discuss issues that we disagree on.
Well, I guess Dr. Ortlund is my favorite preppy guru 😂
Thanks to Megan I have discovered Gavin and realized what a greater speaker/apologist he is. Subscribed.
Thanks Gav, for setting the record straight! Truth will Always win. Bless you brother!
Wow. So disappointing. I agree with most of what you say, but even where we disagree, I appreciate your integrity and irenic tone.
"Surely they want to truth to be told?"
Unless they are trying to sell books, in which case inflaming passions is often more profitable than accuracy. Selling to a predefined niche with an established outlook makes those profits more certain.
Appreciate your response. That the book was even allowed to be published, considering how untruthful it is, is frustrating. Most of the endorsements on the book are expected, but a few of them caught me off guard. Truly sad and infuriating.
Yes, we should never allow books that disagree with our doctrines to be published.
@@pamelaw1857 It's not about differing opinions; it's about the intentional falsehoods, bad research, misquotations that many have pointed out in the book. The publisher shouldn't have allowed that to happen.
What is the definition of "fundamentalist"? I tend to hear that word thrown around as a Boogeyman word... It's generally an insult used to dismiss the other party.
I have to admire your attitude and kindness in the midst of this accusation. Specially done publicly.
Excellent calm and measured response, your point is very clearly demonstrated. Wonderful you could show such grace in the face of this frustrating unfairness
I want to be very careful to not insult the author of this book because I do not want to seem petty but I SINCERELY cannot see a way that something THIS erroneous gets penned without it reflecting poorly on the author. I cannot, in good faith, say I can find a way to charitably engage with content like this when it is so carelessly written.
If someone is trying to critique ministers they’d better make sure they’re writing above board in every way and this book just fails from the outset.
It's weird because I think what she is trying to critique is the way he could be seen as trying to paint all who disagree with his view as being politically motivated, which people in Ortlund's circles definitely do, but the video she cited doesn't really do that. It seems clumsy to me.
@@Constructing_Christianityyeah it wouldn’t shock me. I want to believe that some lesser, more precise offense was intended but the level of dialogue is so beneath the dignity of everyone involved at this point I have little hope for it creating more light than heat.
At least the regular listeners of Dr. Ortlund seem to be engaging constructively here.
@@Constructing_Christianity Ironically she is the one that comes off as looking politically motivated here.
As always, I appreciate your calm, measured tone and the specificity of your response.
It grieves me that you've been attacked so unfairly. I pray and trust that the Lord will let her slanderous lies fall on deaf ears. Thank you for your faithful work and clear teaching on theological triage. 🙏
Yes I also felt grieved
It was an injustice to his work
Gavin sets a great example in his response
Megan is the one being slandered. You’d know this if you read the book
I rarely agree with you on theology (hello, from a Catholic brother), but this video I agree with you on fully. I watch your content often and none of her charges either generally or specific to the video she references are borne our in reality. I pray the truth would be evident to all who read the book and see your content. God Bless
Don't forget that John MacArthur gave this book a glowing review and claimed it was "well researched." He deserves some flack for this
Just like the flak he deserved when he opened his church?
May the Lord reveal Truth and unite His people in Jesus Name!
Triage is so important today. May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ save us our country and our world
He did. He already came. He is reigning at the righthand of God. Messiagic kingdom is here.
As a follower of you from Spain in Europe I am very sorry that you have to go through this and that you have to waste your precious time in defending from these false and stupid acusition. It is thanks to you (and to Leonardo de Chirico) that I have adquire enough knowledge to enter into debate with many catholic peope and show them the ways of the Lord. Your work has been a blessing to me and has equipped me to be a blessing to others.
Just pre-ordered your new book! Thankful for your ministry Gavin! Hopefully the Daily Wire addresses this false journalism. That "quote" on page 26 is atrocious and should not have passed the editor or publisher, let alone the author.
I pray that including you in her book will lead many to your brilliant channel. God give the truth of your gospel to this nation.
Gavin, your witness is on display consistently as you show grace, humility, and integrity in every video. Those who disagree on topics of theology and ministry see it just as well as those who agree. Anyone who aims to resemble Christ online can discern quickly that Megan has a habit of angsty, unthoughtful, and awkward writing. Megan Basham is not someone who we should take seriously on simple issues which she gets so wrong so often. I write that while truly putting aside her politics. Her general posture, her assessment of you, and more speaks to her lack of credibility and discernment on a basic level.
The way you responded to this is the way we need to see more in the church
My husband and I are so thankful for you, Dr. Ortlund. God bless you.
Unfortunately Dough Wilson and friends has brought in the author. This sad indeed 😭😭😭😭
Can I just say, Gavin, the silence in 20:03 was absolute comedic gold. Thankful for you and your ministry!
I'm so sorry that we as Christians behave this way 😢 also I seen about you on Alisa Childers podcast and then when I went to the comment section I decided to go to your channel as there always other side to things ,again sorry brother that you've been misrepresented and I hope they can apologize to you as well. As true mature Christian they claim to be.
A little late to the game but just wanted to chime in and let you know that you have another sister in Christ praying for you. Since I came across your work, you have been a Christian leader that I look to when aiming for unity within the church. You + your brother have been such a blessing within my faith walk. And I am not a calvinist - so that says a lot! ;) What the enemy intends for evil in this moment, I believe the Lord will use for good. You being placed in this book, at this exact moment in time, in many ways feels random (and unwarranted). I don't quite understand why this is happening but when I shift my eyes to Jesus Christ's heart for humanity, God's sovereignty and the story of Joseph, I begin to think of all the lives that have the potential to be impacted for eternity through your response along with biblically sound content now being highlighted. The fact that the Lord would allow one of His children whose UA-cam page is literally called Truth Unites to be thrown into the middle of a controversial conversation has me believing that the Lord is up to something. As Christians we have one real enemy and it is not each other. I am sorry you are going through this right now and will continue to pray for you! May the Lord be glorified in all things! :)
Gavin, I greatly appreciate your ministry & faithfulness to the Scriptures & church history.
Thanks for responding, Gavin! It is SO disheartening to see this book being promoted and praised by Christians. Indeed, this is not the way! Such bad faith. It is unreal to me that heresy hunting pays such dividends. Lord help us to show the world how to love the way you love, with truth AND grace.
It’s through your polite and courteous way of arguing, helped me see beyond the argument and how to respond in a practical and gracious way.
Keep modelling it!! Because you always point it back to God and showcase all of His attributes. Thank you!
I’m so sorry about this, Gavin. Praying for clarity and unity in the body. God bless you.
You treat the topic very well. It takes a very serious scientist to judge this climate change. I listen to smart people on both sides like Sabine Hossenfelder who is pro climate change.
I also listen to MIT atmospheric physicist Dr Richard Lindzen and John Christy of Alabama State Climatologist who pioneered satellite remote sensing of global climate. (John is a Christian) They both believe the climate is warming to some degree, but are very skeptical of this end of civilization exaggeration.
What we need is someone like James Tour who challenged the origin of life narrative where he asked top origin of life researchers 5 questions on origin of life. If they can answer just one, he will take down all his videos. None of the scientists can answer a single question. So that was the end of that. Scientist were very mad, and they attacked James with gossip just like Megan is doing here. So that reveals a lot to us.
We don't have someone like that yet on climate change.
Very much appreciate the measured response given the level and type of criticism.
Being faithful is the best response to false accusations.
Further up and further in.
I asked Allie Beth Stuckey to invite you onto her podcast. I hope that she would give you a fair chance to defend yourself on the same platform that she just gave Megan.
Thank you, Gavin. I pray that UA-cam Christian Chanel will be more discerning when inviting people to discuss and promote their books. God help us.
Gavin you have blessed my life in untold ways. May God bless you and keep my brother!
Dr. Ortlund, I was hoping you’d make a video about this. I was even going to try to contact you somehow in order to convince you so I am relieved to see you made this video!
I listened to Alisa Childers interview of Basham the other day and it just felt off until she started more or less implying some prominent evangelicals who are not big fans of the current GOP nominee are not saved.
I have voted red since I started to vote, I am considering voting for DJT in November, but I have no allegiance except to the Lamb. It grieves me to think this is the state of evangelicalism. It seems like a blend of political and theological fundamentalism is the new norm.
How can we say that people who believe in the inspiration and inerrancy of scripture, the Trinity, the life, death, burial, resurrection, and future return of Christ, in His exclusivity, in the sanctity of life and marriage as defined by Christian orthodoxy etc, like yourself or Dr. Moore or Tim Keller, God rest his soul, are sell outs?
This is a dangerous narrative honestly. Our Christianity should inform our politics, our politics should not inform our Christianity…
I might be one of the few viewers who has engaged with Basham’s book. I don’t think the point of the climate change section was to argue for a specific conclusion re. manmade climate change. I think the point Basham is making is that some people in the church are elevating climate change to an undue position. She asserts that is intentional and often done with financial support from non-Christian organizations that have goals contrary to the flourishing of the faith.
She also notes that there is a whole swath of people who are downstream from that. My read of the book placed Gavin firmly in the downstream category. These are not people who are receiving funds to spread messages (or even open to it!) but who have been influenced by primary movers (at seminary, parachurch ministries, direct contact, etc.). They’re swimming in waters full of this stuff, and they’re impacted (hear enough people you respect say [insert liberal talking point here]…). To be clear, the picture painted of this category (I’ve not finished listening to the book) is not flattering: people very eager for the approval of the world (read: elites) and to not be viewed as “that kind” of Christian (read: foolish, embarrassing fundamentalists).
As I watch this analysis though, I am deeply troubled by the assertions Megan made regarding Gavin. I’m going to have to rewatch everything at length, but for a book that is claiming to “bring receipts,” it seems like she caught a vibe and then cobbled together something to reflect it. I think Gavin has every right to feel misrepresented, and it’s sad that this came from a sister. I’m a bit flummoxed about how to view the book now. I did find elements of the book to be true and helpful (the Covid stuff had me repenting of a lot of attitudes I had early in the pandemic, and thinking of people I need to apologize to), but this is deeply problematic.
Woof, not sure why my other comment isn't showing up: but Megan did confirm on X (in a reply to one of Gavin's posts) that she didn't claim Gavin was "for sale."
Her full post: "They weren't. At all. I showed who was for sale in that chapter and don't even imply that this was Orland's motivation."
This went up before the video, and I'm sure Gavin saw it since he responded to the string and then deleted his tweet.
I think it would be helpful for Gavin to acknowledge that (his other points still stand!) in the spirit of honesty and transparency. If he needs additional clarity, then he can certainly as for it.
I've also read a good part of it and have to agree with you. Where she is citing public records about funding I'm guessing there is a lot of truth to what she is saying, and that truth is deeply problematic. It then seems she ruined it by trying to formulate a narrative that isn't nearly as solid as tracking the money itself.
@@edr245@edr245 She writes a book with the topic and title of "Pastors for Sale", gives Mr. Ordlund an entire chapter, the first one, iirc. She then maliciously twists his words to imply he dismisses any opposition as "hoax" and "conspiracy theories" and words, and now someone points it out, she pretends she never meant to say he's for sale?
No way we should now all pretend she never meant any harm. Instead of admitting her mistakes, intentional misrepresentations, her slander and apologizing, she seems to want us to forget about them.
Gavin would be fully in his rights to request she takes back not just the "for sale" accusation, but all the other things too. It often seems in the current discourse as if ideology has replaced religion. So much of this toxic stuff.
@@edr245 Gavin is deleting comments. He deleted mine earlier when I directed folks toward David Morrill's response.
@@rolandxb3581 Brother, I have no desire to quarrel with you. Gavin has specific claims that are worthy of answer. I think Megan overstates things about him, but I also think Gavin overstates the claims made about him in this book. I am not trying to make an equivalency between the weight of those claims. I am acknowledging that his characterization does not help Christians think clearly, particularly when he knows many of his viewers haven't read the book and relying entirely on him to present the material.
I read this chapter. Gavin is not the subject of chapter 1. He is a mention toward the end of a chapter to illustrate the trickle down of these ideas to popular pastors, apologists, and influencers, particularly those with connections to groups like TGC. Basham does not imply he's for sale nor does she supply a motive for his position. I do not expect you to read this book, but this was my honest read of it. I was really surprised to see some of Gavin's claims in this video because they were not at all in line with what I read. Was it an unflattering caricature? Definitely. Can he dispute the characterization? Absolutely! He has and she should answer his assertions of dishonesty.
But we should ALL be careful. Hyperbole and mischaracterization can cut both ways. The wise way to answer perceived dishonesty is to call it out and await an answer (which Gavin has done in this video). I also think he steps over the line here, and I think your comment does too. I say this in love, and with an honest desire to just cool things down a little. It's fine for dishonesty and false witness to anger you (it angers the Lord!), but please don't sin in your anger.
It’s good to save your receipts.
Gavin, you did a great job of handling this. It’s gotta be hard to defend yourself, but it it’s important.
As a Catholic & former Reformed Baptist I have great respect for Gavin. He seems to be the real deal as far as I can tell.
This is the kind of American thing that make evangelical christianity socially wierd worldwide. We need to be better at disagreeing.
Christianity is supposed to be weird to the secular world.
As someone who has benefitted greatly from your ministry, and has a completely polar opinion on the issue being discussed (climate change) from you, I appreciate and agree with your defense of yourself here. She definitely is bearing false witness. People must stop gravitating toward group-think and political tribalism, and dedicate themselves to the Lord and his truth alone. God bless you and thank you for your ministry.
Alisa Childers recently interviewed Meghan Basham about this book and it showed up in my feed. I filed it away to watch later.
Having watched many of your videos it's difficult to believe that you are for sale. God bless.
Hey Gavin: I'm not commenting on this particular video but on Truth Unites in general. You are the best! I am a lifetime Lutheran (LCMS) but I have always been interested in the Roman Catholic beliefs (why do they do what they do - I never really knew until I watched your videos). You are very calm, nice, fair and understanding...and without a doubt, you have an amazing PHD understanding of church history & doctrine. I have watched hours of your videos and find them fascinating. The differences in the protestant denomination beliefs seem very minor when compared to the Roman Catholic beliefs. I really like that you are trying to unite ALL Christians. I wish we could all be one big happy family. Thanks for all that you do!
I have a lot of thoughts but, as a teacher, I see a failure of education to teach responsible scholarship and research to students. Her lack of careful representation of views seems to be closer to the way "woke" professors do scholarship than she probably realizes.
Courage and resilience, paired with humility, are traits we desperately need in the church and beyond right now, and you model all three especially well in this video. Thank you for your continued ministry!
You have been such a blessing to me Gavin. Keep up the good work. God used you to clear up literal decades of anxiety over the RC/EO/Protestant question! (I am a convinced Protestant!)
Jesus commanded that we must always try to resolve our grievances with each other PRIVATELY before involving others (Matt 18:15-17); Megan should’ve talked with you privately about her concerns in good faith before deciding to attack you in a public book.
Thank you for your ministry, Dr. Ortlund. May God bless you and your family, and may the ideas you promote, and more importantly, the way you promote them, flourish and drown out silly nonsense such as this book.
Gavin, you should reach out to Alisa Childer's and have a conversation with her as she had Megan Basham on her channel. I have a lot of respect for both you and Alisa.
Wow. I have heard her promoting this book. This is very eye opening. There is a lot of money to be made by stoking division.
She works at Daily Wire and she's the one pointing fingers at sellouts? Where does her money come from? Also I'm increasingly less and less a fan of political/cultural "commentators" speaking into theology with little to no theological credentials. I had a rough time engaging with people at my church over Rosaria Butterfield's 5 Lies because even though she makes bold, and generally true claims, it was theologically fairly sloppy and in my opinion not especially helpful. And I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Just because someone knows about politics doesn't mean they are qualified to speak with the same authority on doctrine. Also, the same bombastic and snarky rhetoric that plays well in political and cultural commentary isn't generally the best approach to disagreement in the Church. A few people in church history pulled it off, but it usually misses the mark.
@2wheelz3504 I agree with RB. I just don't think she did a good job helping other people arrive at the same conclusions. If she had used clearer theological categories and explained the historical and scriptural foundations of her positions it would have been a way more helpful book. I think her lack of theological training limited her ability to do so. I'm not attacking RB. I'm critiquing her.
@@2wheelz3504You are missing the connection. The new fundamentalists (represented by Butterfield and Basham) are unfairly and inaccurately critiquing evangelicals (like Keller and Ortlund). When they distort and slander good men we need to call a spade a spade. The critics of the critiquers are responsive. The difference is real, not imagined.
@@2wheelz3504 Your bias is what’s showing poorly.
I’m not claiming to be unbiased, but to be speaking relevant truth into the issue.
Paul was accurate when he called out Peter. He didn’t misquote. He didn’t demean. He didn’t call Peter a wolf.
And Paul was an equal. In this case you have a political broadcaster taking on a brilliant theologian. She is shooting above her pay grade and is inaccurate to boot.
You have affirmed her charges of Ortlund being a “false teacher” (your words)! Wow! That’s a description the NT writers use of unsaved wolves! You are agreeing that of Ortland’s many hundreds of theological teachings, that one off the cuff consideration of a political issue makes him a heretic? And you call this debate that should continue?
No, this is out of context slander! This grieves the heart of God! It’s completely against the prayer of Jesus in John 17. This is politicized Christians being worldly!
Thank you for always promoting humility and truth Gavin.
It's interesting how polarisation in the US, being as outlandish as it is, nurtures the kind of environment where extreme lefts and rights go so far off as to the point of start looking eye-to-eye regarding intellectual dishonesty and tactics.
This was hard to watch. I was hoping that it would be a case of "borderline" misrepresentation on her part, but sadly that was not the case. Although it was hard to watch, I'm glad that you did respond. Thank you for all you continue to do.