How to: Adjust Valves/Set Lifter Preload & Set Up Valvetrain CORRECTLY (Ford/Chevy Small Block)
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2018
- IF you want your engine to hold together @ RPM this video is for you
Thunderhead289 Tech & Tune forum on facebook - / 2041856606030081 - Авто та транспорт
Thanks for putting this out! About to reinstall heads on a SBC 327 and this was the ONE step I was uncertain about.
You are amazing. Not just for your technical know-how but the way you are able to present it. You have a gift. Remarkable resource for the rest of us.
Thanks for the lesson, you're so much better than my old auto shop teacher.
Thanks a bunch, I watched VGG's video on this, but his rockers didn't use polylock nuts. I was stoked to see that you and Derek use the same "spin the pushrod" method to check for 0 lash.
We need more of this luke! Please don't quit youtube!
Im still liking this video I just saw of an engine builder by trade. He went around and set everything to 0 lash then turned the crank 90 degrees, then went around adjusting whatever wants still at 0 lash. Did that a total of 8 times for 2 complete crank rotations then went around and gave all the nuts three 1/4 turns, boom done. Seems totally legit to me and time saving especially if you have to deal with distractions.
Seems dumb and lazy honestly. I'm an engineer and process control programmer by day.
Love seeing the motor related videos on here all though most don’t pertain to me it’s helped me be more comfortable taking motors apart. I could never get my b2200 to run right after going through it and adding a Webber. Recently found a deal on a complete sportage that’s a bolt in swap hello 2x the power and big bump in mpg best of all fuel injection
Thanks makes me confident since I'm gonna get new heads for my 351w.
Great video man! You are a natural teacher! Love watching some Thunderhead!
hey, i really appreciate that - if others dont have to struggle figuring things out like i did in the day, it was all worth it.
K05 T4R the base circle is the zero lift part of the lobe or when the valve is closed. What you describe with .020 feeler gauge would be valve lash which is clearance for solid lifters. Hydraulics need an extra .020 past the point of zero lash to set a preload on the lifter or else you will have some nasty valvetrain noise.
Old videos, but timeless 👍
I really wished you were my neighbor lol I tore the 5.0 in my 93 LX apart this spring to put in the F cam and 96 explorer 3 bar heads and intake that have quite a bit of port and bowl work. Guy said he had $695 in just the port work on the heads. But anyways it's out and on a stand and I have no motivation to put it back together. No one I know around here likes cars or building them for that matter. Once the engine is done and in it's ready though besides the torque boxes. Been building it for 6 year and started at the rear and worked my way forward. Has the stock 8.8 housing with a 31 spline diff out of the same explorer with Moser axels and a 456 that I took from my ranger, stock T5 case (maybe the weakest link) with a g force gear set and MGW shorty throw that put me on the couch for a good month and almost made me a single man lol
thanks mate ,,,helpfull vid... keep up the good work
@ThunderHead289 Do you ever use offset lifters to help with the valve train alignment issues? I'm installing Holley heads and they're famous for valve guide wear, from what I'm reading. When I was mocking them up, I ordered the solid guide plates and they did not line up, so I switched to the adjustable ones like you used here. Just wondering if offset intake/double offset lifters would remedy that type of misalignment.
The rockers must be angled so that you don't have side-loading on the valve stem, you're correct on that. That was a heads up on adding sealant to the rocker stud on the through-thread into the intake runner. A lot of folks wouldn't think of that. Myself being a Ford man, appreciate your videos, the music that you add is great. Thanks for all that you do. All the best from Florida.
A little trick to keep them from shifting while you torque them. Stack up some feeler gauges in between the head and guide plate till the space is filled up then torque away they won't move a bit.
so could i use a kit like that to put stud stile rockers in place of my pedistool rockers on a 300 l6, it has the same rockers as a 302/351
How concerned should I be with a tapping hydraulic lifter for a few seconds at start-up? The videos are excellent and they're my "go to" for tuning, thanks!
Should the lifters be dry or left in oil to check for pr length in wow roller?
whats up man. do you use a feeler gauge to check the .020 measurement between the top of the lifter and bottom of the rocker?
After the engine is installed ( say from the factory) , do you ever need to go and adjust your lash and preload as a maintenace issue? I have a 93 f150 with the 5 0
I had to come take a look at this took the old Windsor Fairlane Out For A Rip came back with two dead cylinders the poly lock on 4 exhaust back completely off one on number 3 intake broke I'm looking at pulling all that apart and starting over and readjusting the guide plates some of the rollers are only half on the valve stems I hope it's just a $20 fix and some labor praying the cam didn't get hurt I need to run one more year$$$😕
Should a 68 mustang with a 302 have some valve chatter when on the throttle and high rpm?
Question... do you have to acount for the lifter pumping up with oil pressure?? If the plunger inside the lifter pumps up, won't that change everything and make the stuff too tight?? Thanks man. Please respond soon lol
How do you decide what rockers to install based on your cam?
Question about pre load.
A local race car engine builder said my valves need adjustment.
He said to bring the engine to operating temp and adjust the rockers until the pushrods stop turning and then tighten them... no preload. Is this because the lifters are already pumped? Should I do pre load or not??
I have a 1965 mustang 289. I stopped to get fuel was running fine holding 75 psi of oil pressure. Came back out to fire it up and engine is locked up. Any ideas? Thanks
My ported LT1 heads also need thread sealer on the rocker studs. Noticed it during installation. Would've been a bummer if I didn't catch it.
it might be the hardest thing to track down ever . . . took 3 days to locate
Very good video I appreciate him being so generous with his knowledge
You gonna make it the mustang and ford show at Valley Junction on Sunday?
How much side to side play is allowable?
Cant decide what to put the mabbco engine in - help me decide!? Galaxie or Rotstang ??
the mabbco is 60 over
i still have the 289 from the Galaxie - just needs overhauled
the Rotstang would be best to test the "60 over sucks" concept on
ThunderHead289 Slap it in the galaxie so we can see some videos of it... what cam are you running in it?
its the xe266hr - seems like a good all around cam so far on previous builds.
Rotstang, the Galaxy is heavier and needs a Windsor 😉
Good job on your video's
Rotstang, definitely.
Definitely the Rotstang.
Im using the stock rockers on a fairly warm 331. Same deal with half a turn past zero lash?
You can go up to .060 thousandths, but ideally you want to run them in relation however the pushrod length was spec’d - I’d say go a half, then if they make noise, go 3/4.
If they still make noise at 3/4 - in my experience, that’s a bad lifter
thanks for the reply.
When centering the rockers on pushrod guideplates, when the pushrod ends up a little skewed, is that going to lead to valve guide run out? Or is it not because it’s the pushrod and not the valve?
Is there no way to correct the geometry?
Do the guideplates move enough to warrant a re-do after so many thousands of miles, is there a recommended duration between checking/adjusting?
Thanks (newbie here)
offset rockers/ shaft rockers
What is the firing order on a 351 winser Ford
I've watched videos of guys replacing lifters with the engine in the vehicle. I've got a 66 F250 with a 352FE that i've noticed pretty loud lifter ticking. I've ran a seafoam treatment that has helped quiet them down, but I've decided to move forward and replace them as I plan on driving the truck daily. Do you feel its safe or practical to just replace the lifters, or should I also replace the rods?
Lifters wear into the cam, my fear with a flat tappet cam is that once the new lifters wear in, you will have worn through your hardened surface on the cam. Once that’s gone, lobes disappear pretty fast
@@ThunderHead289 10-4, I'm just trying to keep driving it until I get into a position where I can pull and rebuild... or just upgrade to a 460 lol. I'll just continue with a few more seafoam treatments as it has made a difference. thanks for the prompt response.
i forgot to ask the lifter preload.... are these dry lifters or pumped up with oil?
They are suppose to be dry when you do this.
Not really related to this video but... when installing flywheel do you use thread locker or thread sealer? I used lock tight and I think I have an oil leak from the flywheel bolts now.
I usually use a thread locker or sealer - if you used a locker, it should be sealed
Rear main, perhaps?
I think that is the more likely cause
ThunderHead289 new FRPP crate engine
Hey, I just picked up the same heads and they sent out the fixed guide plates VS the adjustable. I have that pigeon toe rocker alignment as you mentioned. I was curious how much I could correct it or if I should just leave as is?
I definitely recommend utilizing adjustable guide plates - if you don’t, it’s likely your rocker tip isn’t centered on your valve causing awkward stresses and strains
Ahhh I was afraid of that. They sent the fixed plates out and I was like ok, I guess this is what they recommend using.
Overthinking perhaps. But as long as the roller is centered over the stem you should be good? By running a adjustable guide plate aren’t your running the push rod at a slight angle perhaps causing premature lifter failure?
Starting to get going on my olds 455 build how would you recommend I adjust my valve train for a hyd flat tapped before initial break in, don’t wanna end up with flat lobes
do you have stud rockers on that engine?
ThunderHead289 yes studs and guide plates with full roller rockers
alright -
flat tappets are a pain really. this is what i do
i break the cam in with stock springs or lighter springs if i can help it - im not always able to. your preload should be the same - no issues there.
you will want to throw in a zinc additive for sure. either lucas, comp, and even trick flow make a break in additive. run the engine for 2000 to 2500 rpm for 25-30 minutes and then drop the oil.
keep using zinc additive from then on.
i did this in my solid lifter 289 and i never had an issue - it started having some blowby at 80,000 so i pulled it. she had a hard life, and i only had iron rings so 80k was not surprising. (my point is that the valvetrain stayed together)
ThunderHead289 I’m not worried about the break in itself but more so the initial adjustment to get the correct preload like could I do damage to the game rotating it by hand to get them all set. It does have a good coat of assembly lube but I don’t want to chance it
ah, understood!
if you have good high pressure assembly lube, you will be just fine!
prime her before you light her
I have a question about the preload. Your engine in this video has 3/8-24 threads studs i believe. So if i understand this correctly You came up with the preload of .020 with half a turn by dividing the thread pitch by two because you are turning it half a turn?
Not sure what the spec is on my big block Chevy engine, but im assuming the same method could be used to figure out how far i need to turn the lock nuts on my ricker arms?
Correct! It all comes down to the TPI! 👍
@@ThunderHead289 thanks, thats what i thought. After watching a other video i was a little uncertain though. I think what he was trying to say he wanted .035 to .060, but he turned his 3/4 of a turn which put him in between that not the .035 he mentioned. Thanks again. Jeep the videos coming. Looking forward tonsome burnouts with the satellite.
You should put the Facebook group link in the video description
its there i think - im not the greatest when it comes to social media tech
Question the lifters have a little hole in the side does it matter if hole is facing up or down
Lifters rotate (spin) when engine is running. Therefore the location of the side hole in the lifter does not matter.
No these are roller lifters with wishbone style guides so with that in mind I put holes up thinking oil can flow down and around lifter
Aren't u suppose to use a filler gauge between the rocker and valve?
Rafael Sanchez that’s for solid lifters 👍
In that case it’s the same process, but instead, you run the nut and locker down on a feeler gauge set and there is no “half turn”
What are the cons of self align rockers?
The ones with vertical geometry at the tip? Biggest issue is that they have the potential of engaging the spring retainer cup and dislodging the valve stem retainers - dropping a valve.
How much exactly is a "little resistance"? Are we talking like just barely touching where the push rod isn't just racing in circles or where it's hard to turn with thumb and finger?
At the first instance of contact 👍
So you go through the same process for each cylinder then? With making sure the intake valve is either open or closed?
Is this with the lifters pumped up? I just put my cam in and new lifter when they get here, roller lifters
Thank you, just did mine on my 84 k10 with a 400sbc
When do you take out the guide plates?
Hey thunder head 289 is the valve las same on exhaust strike and intake
Valve lash?
Hey if i upload a video of my issues with my new motorized bike. Do you think you could help me figure out whats wrong with it
50/50 but I can try
Adjusting valve on a Lycoming or Continental aircraft engines are basically the same way
If you could send this video to myvintageiron7215, i'm sure he would appreciate it. Thanks for doing it correctly.
Chris Mansel he doesn’t like me very much I don’t think
@@ThunderHead289 he basically called me an idiot for adjusting lifter preload by spinning the pushrod the same way you did. We have tried that up and down method, and it don't work as well for finding zero.
Chris Mansel yeah, I’m not a fan of up and down. Although I don’t think it matters too much, hydraulics are kinda sloppy anyway, 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn - the differences there would probably not be noticeable. But I’m a perfectionist
💪😎🇺🇲
Who dislikes this?
i have some folks who just follow me to dislike me - no skin off my back.
ThunderHead289 crazy people lol
Trolls that can't turn a wrench.
I see guys switching to HEI thinking it's better.
There's a reason GM abandoned it.
During the years these were in service I did more service calls for GM vehicles with dead HEI than Ford, Mopar and imports put together.
Spark burn through on the rotor was common. Spark then goes to ground via the distributor itself.
Next, module failure do to the heat, it's under the cap and at the back of the engine where little air flows , which was why GM put it in the back in the 1st place ( protect
the points from water )
Ford module is mounted away from direct engine heat and by DuraSpark ll the reliability was higher than GM HEI.
Bought an 84 F150 with the HEI
Unfortunately the guy removed all the wiring and module, so for now still running HEI.
3 module currently, always use the heat transfer grease that has to be used.
“The very moment that I feel any resistance on my pushrod and its rotation”. It would have been preferable to explain that you are trying to achieve zero lash prior to setting preload. The correct explanation is to tighten the adjuster nut of the poly lock, typically by hand as you did, until you get to the specified or preferred lash which is zero in the case of your installation. The lash is the distance from the roller tip to the valve stem which should be verified at the rocker tip and not just by twirling the pushrod. Sometimes, people refer to this also as zero preload which is correct if referring to the lifter plunger itself. Verifying zero lash at the rocker tip to valve stem should be accomplished regardless of the method you used to remove the lash. The twirl method requires caution where a roller rocker is heavy and mass may stop the pushrod from rotating early. We, and notably Comp cams, prefer to confirm zero lash properly at the tip centered on the valve stem while verifying that the push rod can no longer be moved up and down twirl resistance notwithstanding. The final tightening of the polylock is correctly achieved with a proper polylock adjusting tool where the mechanic completes the last 1/16” (approx.) of the polylock rotation while simultaneously tightening the allen set screw. Your hand tool method overall instructions are correct for the typical ½ to ¾ rotation past zero lash instructions common with aftermarket cam instructions such as Comp and Crane. Keep in mind that the aftermarket cam manufactures are using common rocker stud threads per inch to determine correct preload for their brand of lifter. Your lifter may require a different preload distance. We prefer to check one lifter via dial indicator direct measurement to verify correct lifter preload distance per turn of the polylock. Then, the # of turns (typically a fraction) can simply be duplicated on the other valves. The upshot of your video is for dry, non-pumped up lifters. Do not use your method for pumped up lifters. If the engine has been run or someone pre-pumped them, then adjusting preload must be accomplished after the lifter is bled down. Lifters should not be pre-pumped unless the instructions specify that. Prepumping lifters i.e., filling them with oil, often cause the valves to open during the adjustment procedure vs. correctly locating the dry lifter plunger in its preloaded operating location. A proper valve lash adjusting tool can also measure torque. It should be noted that exceeding 25ft lbs. on the final rotation of the polylock is not common. If this happens, ensure that that lifter has not been pumped up. That is a longer discussion that I understand that is beyond the scope of simple weekend fun vids such as yours. My remarks imply no criticism sir. Between you and that uncle tony guy, my students and I have had endless hours of entertainment and lessons learned that help them earn certification. Please keep posting these things.
those springs look like a beehive
This couldn’t be literally any more complicated why are you working so hard? Pression stroke is the base circle on cylinder one. Why waste your time spinning around Nd raising the other side??? I just involves per cylinder is a waste of time anyways. Just been the crankshaft and 90° increments and tighten loose pushrods. What do you make a full 360 On the crankshafteverything should be tightens down on the base circle of the cam. Then tell you need valve all the way down the banks of pistons
He literal spent a minute explaining this and why he prefers this method
Can a Blueprint 347 lifter assembly with standard bolt system be converted to a locking system like you are using or does that take a specific head. Thanks in advance