I would say that the scales are tougher as in Myths there’s usually a Maguffin or some sort like a Magic sword or spear so bullets maybe not so much but I agree a missile or something would hurt
@@Notthebloodgod812 But Dragons in this case was presented completely scientifically, with even a popular scientific theory presented within this world as to how a Dragon would logically breathe fire.
I remember a great quote from a sci fi book I read awhile ago “Humans try so hard not to get involved in war, not because they are afraid of it, but because they are very, very good at it”
@@warmonkey3216 I'm taking a shot in the dark with this guess, but maybe Speaker for the Dead. That paraphrase would make sense in the story. Since humanity committed xenocide on the first intelligent life we found, then felt rather bad about it afterwards.
Look at our closest relative on the world today - the chimpanzee. They are incredibly violent animals. I'm not saying that gives humans an excuse to be violent, but it explains a lot.
Fun fact: elephants have also been recorded taking revenge on humans. There was a poacher that was trampled to death by elephants, the same elephants later wrecked the poacher’s funeral and trampled the corpse.
Yup. Don't fuck with elephants. Thinking about elephants keeps me up many nights. Did you know they can paint other elephants? Without training? Stop to think about what that means. The answer is some degree of self-awareness. Your 5 year old has less skill in painting a representative interpretation of your species than an elephant does. It's depressing. I'm super grateful that other people recognize how special they are, and have built special elephant migratory paths under bridges and shit. I truly hope that anyone who gets caught poaching an elephant is brought to justice, or raped and murdered in a dirt packed alley somewhere since the places where this happen tend to not really have any degree of justice. Elephants and Killer Whales, man.... They keep me up at night. Humans are terrible, most of them.
Funny, I had this exact argument with my sister a few days ago, because she was saying that a nightfury from httyd would be strong enough to overpower the US military. It literally got to the point I was on paper in front of her using trigonometry to calculate how fast toothless flies (if you are interested, most of the time he cruises around at a chill 70 mph, but at his fastest he's going 480mph) and then showing her how fast jets are, the rockets they fire, bullets, drones, and reminding her that toothless almost got killed by a 15 year old with a pocket knife!
770 mph is about what it would take to break a sound barrier at Sea level, this is something that toothless can be seen doing. Your calculation is off and this makes his speed at the level that the military would be using, bullets still really fast and they too break the Sun barrier. He probably would get gone if it will placed bullet hit him, but good luck figuring out where to strike, and when you can unleash plasma from your mouth which is the hottest thing and at the core his plasma is white and at the edge it is a light blue to purple, oh boy it will melt through military equipment like a hot knife through butter. But toothless is one and he has limited shots which are inconsistent, and Toothless is going up against millions. Good luck surviving a fight up against millions.
@@assfuckerthejointpounder5834 Yes but you see, we have seen him break the sound barrier, but at the same time you can see objects in the background, seeing those objects move past, and knowing how long toothless is, you can figure out that's while they show toothless breaking the sound barrier, they show him doing it going way slower than 770 mph. Either the show the background moving by to slow, or he didn't actually break the sound barrier, seeing as hiccup is not completely dead with is skin peeled off, we can assume it's the latter. We can also assume this because not once do we ever see toothless or hiccup having trouble hearing what's going on around them while flying at their max speeds, which would be impossible if they were going 770 mph. And even if he was going 770, we have Surface to air missiles that could easily catch him.
I’ve never understood why so many films have their main threats be completely immune to bullets. I mean, I get why from a movie perspective because if bullets did work there wouldn’t be a movie. But at the same time, from a realistic standpoint 90% of movie monsters have no reason for their immunity to bullets.
This is why I like the thing because it's invulnerable to typical arms but not in the "it's too tough" category you can have a creature menacing yet vulnerable, you just have to play with different ideas like predator for instance he's not invulnerable he uses advanced tech and skill or alien where damaging it is just as dangerous as avoiding it do to the blood
well, on the size of these critters, it's assumed they're just extremely resistant to standard ammo. heck some people nowadays can shrug off a 32, or 9mm mag dump if hit in the gut, Boars, Bears, and a LOT of Large animals get annoyed with anything smaller than something starting with 4 in it's caliber description, So a city bus sized lizard would in theory shrug off most anything that doesn't have Armor Piercing or doesn't start with a 12 or a .5 in it's name. As a reminder, your 556 and 762 aren't much larger than an average 22 caliber and is mostly designed for things with thin skin, and usually without armor. that Said, if most the world, the UK excluded had a day or 2's heads up on this most of us would be more than able to sort it out.
Wow, so they just defaulted to nukes like humanity didn't have years worth of AA missile technology, jets and other aircraft that would absolute wreck these wyverns? Gotta love movie logic sometimes 😂
@Random Platypus with Internet Exactly... the good old Flak-Quadguns from WW2? Guess they would make minced meat out of those swarms in no time and without breaking a sweat.
@Random Platypus with Internet I need a movie that's set the day after WW2 ends where dragons invade, and there's dogfights between spitfires and dragons. An early jet like a Meteor Vs a Dragon would also be awsome.
You are right huge face palm we have so much ammo bomb s rocket s just to simply every millimeter by millimeter killed the planet and we still have left for round 2
Sorry, but no. If you've been keeping up with AA capability (the conflict in ukraine is an awesome open source and real world study on the capabilities and study of modern AA), you'll remember hearing maybe at some point that the US has a lack of available stinger missiles. Current stockpiles of man-portable anti aircraft missiles are limited, as are the capabilities to reproduce them. The US has been drawing down air defense artillery battalion for a long time, mostly because we haven't fought any near peers for a while and we've had air superiority for a long time. Stinger have a limited shelf life because of the cooling system required for the infrared seeker. And wyvern wouldnt put off much of a radar signature. Old school flak cannons, sure, but how many capable aa cannons are around? With available ammo with fuses set? And how many trained personnel are around to fire them that wouldn't be pretty quickly torched by a pissed off horde of wyverns? Point is, we have the technology, but we probably don't have the scale to deal with them even at the outset. Even fighter jets taking them on in the air, we just wouldn't have enough that are capable to do the job. We would default to nukes pretty quickly.
Just want to add that plenty of dragons in medieval depictions have only had two legs. The main thing that sets them apart from wyverns is that wyverns are associated with venom and dragons are associated with fire. Usually, though, wyverns were a type of dragon rather than a separate thing entirely.
I mean, I don't see an issue with taking some creative liberty with something that never existed to begin with. I feel like it's OK to modify fiction to be as fictitious as the writer likes.
Where did you get this info from? Even in early medieval, pre medieval times they made the distinction of wyverns having 2 legs + wings and dragons having 4 legs + wings, nothing about what they 'shoot', earliest surviving of depictions wyverns and dragons did not even 'shoot' anything and were more like winged crocodiles/snakes that would devour people, their bodies being more like chimeras consisting of multiple animal parts. What im trying to say is even in medieval depictions the 2 legged ones were wyverns and called such, and the 4 legged ones are dragons, and you could see wyverns as a lesser form of dragons, while dragons being the real danger in size and power.
So why not use Surface to Air Missiles, Anti-Aircraft Force Multipliers, The force Multipliers with wings known as an A-10, F-22s, F-35s, and all other forms of air to air combat? WE AREN'T CAVEMEN ANYMORE! WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY!!!
Fighter Jets surely are faster than dragons but lose in every other aspect , who knows if they could even land missiles? These beasts are shown to be very quick and maneuverable. Also you have to think about the fact of how quickly we can even mobilize against millions of super fast fire breathers that suddenly spawn out of the ground.
That's always my biggest gripe with all these monster movies. Magic beasts that can take out tanks and missiles... but a few plucky ex gym teachers can take them out with pointy sticks. "If it bleeds, we can kill it"-- words of wisdom from one of the best movies ever.
There's an elephant in the room that I haven't seen any one mention. The dragons would simply be too big to multiply as quickly as they do, to go from hatchling to adult that quickly their metabolisms would have to be running so fast they'd either overheat and explode or simply starve faster than they could eat. Even if one dragon carried 100 eggs, and all eggs managed survive the death of the dragon, it would take a long time for 100 adult dragons to come out of that, and that's assuming none are killed in the process of growing up.
@@luclin92 It would help to some extent, but you can still only lose heat so fast. I'd imagined they'd have to have similar body shape to stingrays to maximize their surface area to lose heat faster, only transforming into the adult body shape around the end of their growth, and depending on much their scales block heat, they might have to simply not have them at birth, and grow them last. This of course, still doesn't get around the issue of how much food the growing dragons would need. They'd have literally to eat constantly, not even being able to sleep without starving to death, and they also couldn't hunt without expending more energy than they could ever get back from their prey, meaning they'd rely off of adults constantly bringing large amounts of food. If those adults ever get shot down, that could risk starving the juveniles.
Humboldt squid have a ridiculous growth for their metabolism as well. It's not entirely out of the realms of possibility with exception of their ash diet. It would definitely hamper their size as far as nutrition would go
@@BLOODKINGbro the Humboldt squid is a much smaller animal, which helps with heat, as a smaller object has a higher surface area to volume ratio than a larger object with the same proportions. Perhaps the dragon hatchlings wouldn't run in to overheating issues at first, but as they get closer to adulthood the risk only increases. The square-cube law would really work against them, with each doubling in dimensions cubing the amount of heat production but only squaring the amount of heat loss. You also cubing the amount of energy needed to double your dimensions again. This is less of an issue for a smaller animal, since they are so small that they won't have much trouble finding many times there bodyweight in food anyway. Also despite being smaller allowing an animal to grow faster proportional to its current body size, the Humboldt squid still takes a whole year to reach adult, which while impressive, even if the dragons could pull this off (which they couldn't) it still might not be quick enough to replace casualties, especially considering a lot of eggs wouldn't result in an adult due to some dragons being killed by the humans before they can, starvation due to the ridiculous amount of food they'd need, cannibalism due for the same reason as the last, disease due to the fact they've been sleeping underground for millions of years meaning they'd be I'll equipped to deal with any modern diseases that mutate into being capable of infecting them, made worse by the fact that the immune system of living things tend to be pretty weak at the start of live, not to mention most embryos probably wouldn't survive if the dragon carrying them died (the mother's body would only shield them so much if they came crashing down from miles in the air after getting shot down.) It seems unlikely they could replace loses fast enough, they'd probably need to reach maturity in months at most, but they'd require several years at the least.
It would makes sense if they trully were magical dragons, in essence powerful and intelligent, we as humans with all our technology would be completely obliterated by magic, we have no defenses against it. Like Skyrim dragons.
This is a spot on analysis! A thousand wyverns suddenly appearing would cause havoc initially, but our military response would ruthlessly exterminate such a threat. Wyverns are vertebrates adapted for flight, so their armour has to be light and limited to vital areas. Small-arms might not be able to hurt them much, but .50 cals can penetrate an inch of modern steel armour. Then we have AFV's armed with 20mm, 30mm or even 40mm autocannon, which were all developed from AA-weapons designed to destroy warplanes. Nothing with a pulse is going to survive a faceful of 20mm. Then we have MANPAD weapons designed to kill aircraft or armoured vehicles. Needless to say, any wyverns seeking safety in the sky would be easy targets for modern fighter jets. If the wyverns retreated underground, we'd use GPR to find them, and kamikaze robots/drones to destroy them.
Unless they were magical creatures, a large-caliber handgun and almost any rifle period would probably be all you'd need to penetrate the head or chest of any living creature capable of flight in earth's atmosphere. An elephant; a far more durable creature than any flyer could possibly be, and the most durable non-aquatic vertebrate you could possibly test a gun on would die to a single well-aimed magazine of AK-47 fire; and honestly it would probably have been dying before the end of that first clip, you'd mostly just need to keep shooting to make it die -fast-. A small squad of armed poaches has destroyed multiple entire herds of elephants armed with AKs and grenades, all this while being careful with aim to ensure they don't destroy the tusks. These are animals both heavier and more durable than the dragons, that have been around and aware of humans and guns for years, and capable of killing a whole squad of troops in seconds if they get close. A wyvern doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell if the enemy knows its coming. Those massive wings and legs are going to need hollow bones to be light enough for flight, and a single burst from an assault rifle is going to leave it crippled and unable to fly; if its still in midair when its shot, its going to come down to an abrupt and fatal landing. Its ribcage and internal organs can't be too dense either; even if it were made out of diamond-durability materials, as hard as carbon can get naturally, its enormous size and ability to fly on earth mandate paper-thin structures that a human with a spiked baseball bat could rend and tear his way through. These things would be paper tigers, able to deal a fair amount of damage and appear big, dangerous, and threatening, but literally die to a stiff wind; the windy parts of the world, especially at higher elevations, would tear those enormous and fragile wings apart like they were made of paper mache. A potato gun would shatter its ribs or a wing membrane and lead to inevitable death.
I really never understood how one dragon could breed so quickly it could decimate the combined military forces of the combined world. Like did it understand logistics and identifying potential threats and target them before attacking the rest of the civilian populace? Or did humanity just literally go 'oh sugar honey ice tea crank out the nukes, there's one dragon in London!'
I swear it'd take a south London chav gang about an hour to catch it and start pulling it's legs off and start sticking fireworks up it's arse for kicks and giggles. Dragons would be outmatched by south London council estates.
It's strongly implied the dragons didn't tackle humanity until there were millions or billions of them around. When they realized how many of these things there really were nukes seemed the only viable option. I think it's more likely the dragons got lucky & managed to hit a major food production or fresh water source that led to a major famine/water shortage that probably made countries ignore the dragons & fight each other over dwindling resources.
@@zakuzeon7382 Except this was set in 2008 London (The capital of a world superpower). People on the surface would have seen and recognized something 'looking like a dragon' as it left the construction site. Videos and pictures would have spread around the world from local sources as well as from surveillance satellites that are always monitoring the world powers and this thing would have been tracked down from day 1 for study and analysis from the US and other powers regardless of whether or not it caused a food/water shortage in Britain.
As many questions as this movie left me, it's still more believable than losing to a bunch of armored indestructible blind aliens super sensitive to sound who can't swim.
I thought Van Zan jumped because he didn't have any more arrows and there was no way he was going to climb down before the dragon got him so he figured he'd go out like a boss.
Funny thing is that even if those "dragons" could withstand flak fire, their wings wouldnt. That means you dont even NEED to kill them with it since the movie had shown that gravity doesnt give the faintest of shits about their armored hide. They´d just brain themselves after getting hit by some shrapnell. Which would be utterly embarrassing for the wyverns and hilarious for the gunners.
One of my biggest problems with the movie is that the dragons supposedly feed on ash. That could *not* work! Ash is what you get after the energy has been extracted from organic matter. Cooking food is fine (it helps make it more easily digestible, for example), but burning it to ash removes all of its nutritional value.
But the vast majority of the carbon was lost to the atmosphere beforehand, due to the burning, as carbon dioxide, meaning it would be a very inneficient feeding strategy. Plus, living creatures need other nutrients that, again, would be lost by the combustion.
GATE shows how it's really done, with soldiers talking about how it was kinda surprising they needed to use the 20mms to bring down the wyverns and demigods staring on in incomprehension and terror as their pet dragon gets obliterated by airstrikes.
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 all its characters were stereotypes and Gate was literally made to stroke the ego of a Pro JSDF Artist thats why in the show the other Nations get fucked with barely no effort
"Humans change the course of the evolutionary arms race between species when we decide to pick up a rock and throw it." Man, those are some powerful words there Roanoke. I'll be sure to remember them then the whales began their revolution.
Reign of Fire was freakin' awesome. I loved how all the actors/characters took their roles completely seriously; there was no self-conscious *wink wink, nudge nudge*. They all played it like they were in the Most Important Movie Ever Made. I'm not speaking to the quality of the plot/story; I'm speaking to the level of commitment.
Yeah, brush aside the ridiculous world building, the story is otherwise solid, and the performances are what make it work. It had a concept that was built on rule of cool, and ran hard with it with no reservations.
One thing about the wyvern chasing the chopper: A helicopter basically has a giant lawnmower blade on top keeping it airborne and a smaller one in back. If you're going to ditch the helo anyway, why not pitch up/to the side and maybe turn the flying lizard into dragonburger? Then if the blades are wrecked, you just jump out WITHOUT the risk of becoming a snack.
Well, my personal guess is that they simply didn't want to lose their one and only chopper just to take down one of I don't know how many thousands of dragons. :
Helicopters don't work the way they do in Hollywood movies (big surprise, right? :D ). The rotor blade can hit with a lot of force - it's moving pretty fast. But it's also very blunt, and very light. It would be very unlikely to cut a human in half, much less one of those wyverns. It could still kill him, mind; but no burgers. Likely, the wyvern would be hurt and fly away. Controlling helicopters is really hard. They would have a massive disadvantage in manoeuvring against the wyverns in the movies. And forget jumping out after a collision like that. It would do even more damage to the helicopter and its crew than to the wyvern.
@@LuaanTi I also read that the blades are light and quite brittle and can easily break if they hit something. People assume that just because they are metal they are like swords.
Dragons and Wyverns are the same, mostly. You can call a wyvern a dragon, it's just a sub-species. Dragon has become an umbrella term for a lot of flying lizard-like creatures. Think of it like "All crows are birds, but not all birds are crows" or that crocodiles (wyvern) and alligators (western dragon) both belong under Crocodilia (Dragons).
It’s so fascinating how the etymology of a completely fictional creature is so hotly debated: what with Wyverns and Dragons being differentiated so avidly depending on the fictional universe, lore, etc. _Reign of Fire_ clearly calls them dragons despite them being Wyverns, yet _Monster Hunter_ makes a distinctly differentiates Wyverns from Elder Dragons - the former even having various categorizations such as Brute Wyverns, Piscene Wyverns, Flying Wyverns, etc. _Harry Potter_ lacks this distinction entirely, as they call everything dragons despite the leg and wing count, and _How to Train Your Dragon_ does the same thing. Stormcutters like Cloundjumper have six limbs like a dragon, but four of them are wings and they only have one set of legs like a wyvern. Yet they refer to all species of “Wyverns” as dragons. I always thought it was akin to a “All squares are rectangles but not rectangles are squares situation”. A wyvern is a sub-classification of a dragon, yet not all dragons can be classified as Wyverns. MH refers to them in this way because supposedly all Wyverns have a common ancestor, while the Elder Dragons defies this convention by having physiology outside of the norm of: “two wings and two legs”. It’s the only franchise I actively know of to make this distinction. Everything else uses them interchangeably due to the lack of phylogenetic knowledge we have on the origins of dragons/Wyverns within other media. Science is so cool.
@@RoanokeGaming Well you come out of the gate swinging saying it's a wyvern not a dragon, when you're talking about a completely fictional creature. There's no evolutionary branch, no observable biology, nothing beyond myths and stories and media, a dragon is really whatever you want it to be
To be clear, in MH elder dragons are categorized as anything that can cause an environmental catastrophe and human settlement destruction. It's not usually based on anything physiological (they range from traditional European dragons, Egyptian insects, to giant sand whales).
@@Sevenhens I know, I started with MH3U - and Ceadeus definitely isn’t a dragon. I was just speaking from a biological standpoint more so than a lore one, as Elders like Kushala, Teostra, Fatalis, and Safi’Jiiva are all draconic in nature - yet fall outside of the standard wyvern body plan. It was said in an interview that the Elder Dragons were created to mirror the natural disasters they create, as they don’t look like they belong in any ecosystem in MH. They are enigmas, mirroring the monsters of fiction more so than any “real” animal in the MH universe.
The video-game adaptation of this movie was surprisingly pretty good, It had a human campaign where you take control of various types of vehicles and go on a variety of missions such as defending the castle (the one from the movie) from attack or launching a raid on dragon nests with the final mission being to take on the male dragon in a tank. Then you can play a dragon campaign where you take on a variety of human resistance forces. Both campaigns were a ton of fun.
About the possibility of killing those Wyvern, the show also underestimates out militaries ability of mobilizing quickly By the time the first TV crews started documenting the dragons awakening, every air base between London and Sidney would've be on high alert with AAAs loaded and planes in the sky
Would been smarter if the background of the show was a limited WW3. Much of the productive ability was disrupted and infrastructure was so wrecked that remaining functional militaries could only assert themselves locally, regroup around resources to keep their equipment working.
…so too late than? because if you called a tv station and said send someone down we found A nest full of thousands upon thousands of dragons!!!” they would laugh their asses off an promptly hang up. you’re under estimating how small europe is. an expecting the military to not be confused as to wtf is going on
Don't underestimate the ability we have not taking stuff seriously, remember after seeing how the Toriea have been handling the UK the last few years it kinda feels like the military would not be allowed to mobilise yet
The original story was supposed to be more about the battle between humans and wyverns. But the getting MM cost so much, there wasn't the budget to do the original script, so it had to be rewritten. (edited for typos. Covid brain right now)
Perhaps oxygen is the catalyst? The cavern where the wyvern was originally awoken looked like it might have been created by the wyvern, so perhaps it created an air-tight space which would cause it to shut down when the oxygen ran out. Then, when the world became populated again, burrowing animals which there always seem to be, would eventually breach the cavern, letting in oxygen, which could jump-start the metabolism again. Upon waking, they might be able to eat some of the surrounding walls to build up a bit of strength, but would need to get out eventually to gain access to more oxygen and richer food sources, as well as eventually reproduce.
A lot of people do not know this but it is possible for inbreeding to not cause the issues, is the species of ant over and the Philippines that is like a really dark color that is possible black, they have this because they tend to breed with in their nest instead of outside of the nest. That right there is possibly a similar genetic thing that is going on with the wyvern, now you might be asking why didn't this happen with more species? Well there's less genetic diversity from the system, after all the one Colony would keep getting bigger and bigger, also the ants would not really have much room for mutation, the genetics would be similar and there's no mixing of genes outside of the colony which would be basically identical as they are all coming from the same Queen assuming there's only one queen. Their colonies with more than one ant Queen, now perhaps this being so limiting in terms of genetic diversity because mutations are the only way you get the diversity and it does not come from mixing the genes from the father with a mother, this would mean that adapting would be difficult, and evolving would also not exactly be the most common thing for the later generations when compared to other species. However ants have been around so long that the dinosaurs probably had their meals be partially eaten by those things, they are more than 100 million years old, when you have the species that is this successful and it's also on every continent and there is one two species that is on literally every continent that's habitable and no one knows which continent is native to, something tells me that the lack of genetic diversity would actually be a good thing because there's less changes to this incredibly good system. After all look at how long sharks and crocodilians have been around, those things have good bodies, those things are very good, those things are the kind of species that stay around for longer than trees, specifically the shark, the crocodile is a kind of thing two lines out of the water and take in a creature that weighs multiple tons and can clamp down with more than 100,000 pounds of force per square inch, and answer the kind of thing to absolutely obliterate you with numbers and technically better than humans because of biomass and how well they work together. But saying you're better than a human is not very much, after all because of how close that chimpanzees are you a human brain and how Superior their physical bodies are this would make them more evolved than humans which, oh boy more monkeys better start sharpening rocks and using them on human things so that this undeserving species is no longer at the top. If it wasn't for their eighth ancestor figuring out how to make items from sharp rocks and their earlier ancestor figuring out what sharp rocks are, what they do, and how to make them, the humans wouldn't have survived, at least not easily. Humans should not have managed to thrive in such a self-sacrificing manner if these things were dropped into pretty much any continent with only what their biology allows, or the adaptations they would acquire from their very adaptable bodies in that environment.
@@assfuckerthejointpounder5834 As far as I'm aware, specific creatures don't have issues with inbreeding atleast for a short time. (Well, they do, they are different, just in a less bad way) However, some creatures does not equal all creatures. Take this form a dude who lived in two countries with still existing old blood royal families. Incest is not wincest for the genes.
When I was a kid in the eighties, Omni magazine did an article where they tried to come up with a biology for dragons. For their size, they would need to use gas to make them light enough to fly, which they could then exhale with sparks from rocks in their gullet to create fire. It would be interesting to see a realistic dragon in film that is fat when flying but deflates after spewing fire.
I remember watching a video detailing what a realistic dragon would look like. It said that basically, Wyverns are the only good pick bc 4 limbs evolved from fish. I find that stupid. So I liked to think that dragons simply inhale flammable gasses in the air and then spew them out with a little spark thingy right at the end. Wyverns are stupid, they are just birds but scaly. Proper dragons, if following the laws of physics, could easily work. I even read a book where dragons had to regularly eat rocks to maintain their scales.
A phenomenon that can produce hydrogen gas without electrolysis: MRE heaters use Mg dust, A little iron dust, and salt. Water is added, mixing the salt, and hastening the oxidation of the magnesium and iron. This creates heat enough to boil water plus hydrogen gas. Problem is that it would need to take in ores, refine them. And then transport the ores in a pure form to an oxidation stomach. The ore slag would need to be regurgitated. The gas would need to be stored. A second gizzard containing flint would be needed... and sparks van only be generated in a dry environment.
For all the problems this movie may have, it still has some of the best wyverns/dragons in any movie with them and their animations still hold up fantastically well even all this time later. I watch the movie purely for them cause I love how well done they were.
Before the (very recent) invention of the word "dinosaur" they were called dragons (or the cultural equivalent). The Chinese still call fossils "dragon bones" and grind them up to use in traditional medicine.
From a mythological standpoint, dragons can have 2 legs, or 4, or 4 with no wings, or six legs with 4 wings, no legs at all... Different cultures from different times have all sort of descriptions of dragons. It is only a very very modern definition from D&D, LotR or Song of ice and fire, that defines dragons and wyverns with a specific number of legs and wings.
so you're saying that our own dragon (from mythology) has no distinct form? because i have that exact same mentality, and i agree with you 100% if it's what you're saying.
@@nossorcgames4733wyverns don't necessarily have to be cousins to European dragons, just a dragon of their respective mythos just like European dragons.
@@treyrex5987 Probably because humans figured out they could kill whales with harpoons hundreds of years ago. A dragon is not nearly as far beyond a whale as modern weapons are beyond a harpoon.
I love this movie. Unironically, whole hearted, love this movie. It is definitely a popcorn flick that you aren't supposed to think about but I still love trying to come up with explanations. I read that the earlier scrips had more details about how the dragons worked but the studio wanted them to dumb it down.
I'll be honest with you - the studio was right. Movies over explain this shit. Compare and contrast the original godzilla to the 1998 godzilla or the 2014 version. The og godzilla opened with godzilla wrecking shit and pretty much said "something radiation something" and then focused on godzilla wreckin more shit. One of those movies is awesome and I look forward to watching it with the kids when they get a bit older. The other two are not.
@@ColonelSandersLite it's funny u say that when literally everyone preferred the newer one it has better critical and fan reviews so no your just stupid
I suppose one could say that dragons are more of a generalized term with a bunch of sub branches. Like all wyverns are dragons but not all dragons are wyverns. Kinda like how all tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises. You have the traditional 4 legged 2 wings European dragon, you have the drake which is a wingless dragon, wyverns that are dragons with two wings and two legs, then there are East Asian dragons which are more snake like in appearance and don't have wings but can usually still fly(Some might have wings but I haven't looked into these types of dragon as much), there's also another type in Europe that straight up has now legs that I think is called a wrym or something like that? I've always been really int o dragons and have a book on dragon mythology that mentions the noodly ones but I can't recall the exact names. I just know that theirs a freak ton of mythological creatures that classify as dragons that don't fit the tradional 4 legs 2 wings though those are my personal favorite type of dragon.
I think the reason why they disappeared after 3 months is either A) they starved to death as they’ve already burnt everything and have begun cannibalizing on each other, B) They hunted each other to extinction/a handful because, well, they’re starving, C) they’ve gone to hibernation like they did the last time they burnt everything (dinosaurs) to the ground.
It’s the same issue with the tv series “falling sky” They give the alien a “magic armour” eventually they take them down negating the “ magic armour” which results in the show having to retcon the tech advancement as it take away any level of threat.
Yeah that's the same as the shields in Independence Day (the movie with the aliens). Like they just magically go away with a computer virus...not accounting for the fact that energy shields are probably created by a power source and a species advanced enough to do interstellar travel would have vastly superior computers which would undoubtedly be impossible for our simple CPU's to even penetrate. But if it was logical then they wouldn't have any reason to send their ships into the atmosphere when they could have just bombed earth from space.
i really loved that show, it tackled issues you dont think about but also dumbed stuff down ie we make bullets out of their armor which is simple compared to say independence day, people gone crazy, logistics, etc
@@jrunner5k 100% the divide and conquer of the Aliens and survivors alike. The slow encroachment and erosion of morals of the “normal” rules of life and social structures , one by one falling by the way side with the struggle to maintain health and daily survival. The massive cast of folk showing the best and worst of what humanity and aliens have to offer.
@@S_047 well on top of that the premise that the entire worlds military armed forces and conscripted forces didn’t seem to do anything to the aliens then…ooh you can do this and take them down. Now why didn’t we think that before lol. Always the problem with these type of shows they grasp the wider narrative but allow the minutiae to slip through, end result being that the plot falls to bits.
I remember my anthropology professor once said that there was a theory for why all human groups have a dragon story, and why they all share certain characteristics. Apparently, it’s the result of ancient proto-human monkey brains expediting predator response by combining the triggers for our three greatest threats as tree dwellers. Snakes, big cats, and birds of prey á la harpy eagles. Almost every dragon, eastern and western, has shared characteristics of these three; scales and a serpentine form, wings and/or flight, and a cat-like face or body plan. So our ancient monkey brain made a threat response for a snake/cat/eagle and as our brain evolved and progressed this old threat was brought into the fore and our better brain did it’s best to figure out what we were supposed to be afraid of, it used its imagination to build a dragon and went “yeah, that’s a big dangerous thing, let’s be careful!”
And take into account that glasses are a pretty current invention in the timeline, in Homo sapiens have notoriously crappy eyes. So some of them could have been just a half blind guy who didn't know what the hell he was seeing
It even makes sense as to why they breathe fire. Fire, while something we harnessed, is a force of nature that when it runs rampant is something truly terrifying.
there was also a African croc species that preyed on hominids for 41 million year Instilling an instinctual fear of all those créatures combined, the Strongest of all créature, one who Can even wield fire as a weapon
YES! im sick of this discussion from the elder scrolls community. Plus if a setting says that something is a dragon then thats a dragon in that setting
It’s actually quite a huge deal if you’re trying a more realistic take on biology. Wyvern/Oriental dragons having four limbs and Dragons having 6 means they would have to evolve from completely different ancestors, like a completely different species of fish that decides to go on land different.
@@EstellammaSS no, not at all. In biology, unrelated organisms get named the same all the time. Just look at giant panda vs red panda for example. Dragon is hardly a scientific name.
Ok so I have a theory regarding the wyverns: I highly doubt that the bull in the film is millions of years old, this would likely be one in a long line of bulls that were born, and died while sealed away from the surface, fertilizing eggs during this time (they'd have to because to get the kind of edge they had over humanity would require hundreds of thousands at minimum and millions at maximum and even then they'd have to be incredibly fast moving to take the country before it has proper time to respond, the rest of the world it seems like Theis was a panicked response since nukes and entire arsenals were used up rapidly causing the world to fall, it's the best I can come up with as to why the wyverns win). And I can see the species having a biological response to the male dying, where either an egg sex changes to male or an already existing female changes sex to be the new male. This is probably likely as I highly doubt the wyverns we see are the only colony to ever exist in the films reality, likely there were other bulls and their colonies out there, it just so happens this one is either the only colony left that wiped out the others due to territory or mating reasons OR there are other colonies still in hibernation. I say this as my theory because the end of the film suggests that there have been little to no sightings since the death of the bull, this could be for a few reasons: 1. They're going back into a suicidal hibernation without a bull (this doesn't make sense), 2. They've cannibalized eachother and there's barely anything left or none at all (you'd think that'd be reported on by now) and most likely 3. There has been either the birth of a new bull and the colony is protecting it until it matures somewhere OR a female has changed sex and is currently building numbers again and the humans are living on borrowed time. Regardless I believe that humanity is screwed at the end.
And if they ever start biomeineralizing graphene like that one guys genetically engineered yeast, then humanity is screwed because that's the most durable material and like 10 layers is enough to make you Bulletproof. If it's equally thing to Saran Wrap then an elephant balancing on a pencil that doesn't collapse would be what is required to break it or is that how much it will handle before it is destroyed.
The only way these wyverns could have really threatened humanity, IMO, would be if they somehow produced natural EMP fields, maybe as a side effect of their ability to produce flame (like they produce outright plasma that they direct with magnetic field generating organs that produce EMPs by happy accident or as a means of communication between wyverns or something).
@@xloltimex38 forgive my ignorance but how hardened was it when the movie set the apocalypse? My gut says there's more/better shielding now then there was...
@@Avigorus I couldn't tell you what DARPA's got behind closed doors, but I dont think anything coming out in the last 14 years magically negates EMP. If anything, we've become *more* reliant on fiddly electronics like computers and GPSs. Of course, yes, EMP has been a known problem and you can assume anything critical is going to be hardened against it going back well before this movie was made, so your tanks are still going to run and your helicopters are still going to fly.
@@shatara42 Yeah that sounds about right; in such a hypothetical from what little I know myself; that said, if one presumes such an ability could mess with radar somehow (white noise/overloads of some sort?), that might let them at least last more than a week lol
@@Avigorus a lot of our military tech like tanks and planes were made in the 80's and 90's. I'm sure they've received upgrades since then to protect against emp better. also emp, as far as I'm aware, just damages electronics because it induces a large current and that can damage fuses, relays, and circuit boards and overheat and fry wires. you counteract this by having loads in the circuit that disipate a lot of the heat from the current, but they can only do so much and are only going to be effective up to a certain strength of emp, at some point the induced current will just be too big to disipate and even then the load can only do some much and you cant have loads on literally every circuit because space and weight isn't free and circuits don't work like magic. that being said no biological organism is gonna be able to produce an emp burst with enough energy to cause serious damage military vehicles unless it fuses its own atoms turning itself into a nuclear bomb
Small correction: Amphitheres and Wyverns are still Dragons, they're just particular sub-species. Four legs plus wings is best, but I'm biased because that's what I've got. Mostly they're just called "Western Dragons" but different fictions assign different names to other dragon types.
also because the classifications are a very modern thing. dragon is basically big probably magical or demonic in origin monster with some lizardlike qualities. myths describe snake as dragons and even turtles can be dragons in the east. being pedantic about wyvern and dragon is just pointless really.
I always have to cringe a bit whenever I see people acting super smart because they know that an European Dragon has four legs and a Wyvern two. I heccin remember people doing this 20 years ago already lmao Despite the fact that there isn't any consistency throughout history. There are European countries who call their Wyverns on their crests "dragons", and a Lindwurm is a dragon too. We should just summarize all of them as dragons for a lack of a better word that doesn't exist, while "four legs, wings, breaths fire" is a very specific "European Dragon"
@@bighatastrea Yeah, they're all types of dragons even if they are "wyverns," which is the point of my comment for the video maker. Didn't want to take it to a rude place, though.
@@Fourger14 Haha sorry, not talking about you, I just saw it in many other places and the little part about the Wyvern/Dragon discussion in the video gave me the same vibes so I just felt like adressing out out of context
Even with creatures that have "armor" like the Quite Place, it'd still be no problem. If they had truly impenetrable armor, it would have to be so dense that they wouldn't be able to move due to the weight.... We have rifle rounds that can go through inches of steel. A 20mm would cut these things in half with ease.
The meat under the armor can be taken out by a regular bullet. That means that concussion can destroy them. It been smarter if the Quiet Place creatures could phase through matter, which would allow them to hide underground. Hence their reliance on sound and sensibility to a certain frequency. This would leave them vulnerable to being incinerated by heat tho. Also, Graboids would be their natural predators with a lesser ability to phase through solid matter. )
Dragons are magical beings so laws of physics wouldnt really apply as strictly. I mean if you got a dragon that can use magic, that would be an extremely difficult dragon to kill even with current tech. In some tales, dragons are extremely smart, we talking human level or higher smarts. Couple that with access to magic and likely we gonna have to bring out the nukes soon.
Usually wyverns and dragons should be treated like magical creatures in movies or stories, cause if they're treated like just natural giant lizard it would lead to lots of plotholes. The depiction that I like most is when they're treated like magical beings that have a magical breath and scales that can resist bullets or modern weaponry that doesnt had magic in it. One of the easier way to make magical creatures overpower modern weaponry in a story is the way some animes like the Fate series did it. For example the Nemean Lion as a magical beast in fate has the characteristic to reject human civilization so its skin acts as an armor that prevents any tools created by humanity from piercing its flesh and Heracles could only fight it barehand.
Monster Hunter kinda does this, it treats the monsters like normal animals and not bloodthirsty magical beings but it does it in a way that just doesn't feel boring
So interesting story that made me mad about this movie. Years ago when i was still a teenager i made a concept book called “Humans vs Dragons” (i know cheesy name like i said it was just concept work) but my book was about how humans of the modern era would fight the dragons. I thought about going back to the book and finishing it and fleshing it out a bit, and literally like 2-3 days later this movie came out, and i was like friiiiiiick…..now i feel like i cant finish my book because who would honestly believe i made the concept years before this movie came out? Sigh, makes me upset.
I say go for it! There is pretty much no new concept anymore, but that doesn't mean you can't continue with your own ideas based around the concept and create your own flavor within it!
There's an anime called Gate. Plot is kind of similar but with a fantasy world (dragons, medieval knights etc) vs a modern world such as ours. Sure its cool seeing a knight fly atop a dragon but its even cooler seeing it get blown up by a jet zipping by lol.
This is just me but I would say just do it anyway, I know I would enjoy something like that! And I'm pretty sure others would too... especially if you make it more believable than this movie
I absolutely love how you have Skyrim music playing in the background! Anyways I hope you cover the lizards from Aberration, it's a very underrated film.
there was a game version of this, where half of it you plays as the dragons, and the humans do fight back hard, but the dragons seem to have rather advanced strategy and tactics.
This was something that was talked about in the Shadowrun RPG. When magic came back to the world, dragons came back too. The though they could come back and be on the same shit, but they learned that a squad of Apache helicopters with sidewinder missiles could take one down fairly easily.
@@bokaxet1698 so it can. However, due to the design of a Sidewinder, they are not suited for use on a helicopter. I wouldn't necessarily call a MANPADS more effective than a Sidewinder, outside of a few specific scenarios, such as a helicopter though.
@@ShelbyWithAShelby the AH-1Z can carry AIM-9M sidewinders. The reason the cobra has the ability to mount anti air weapons is that the marines are a frontline first response force so they may not have as much air cover from the air force whereas the army doesn’t have that problem
@@Fatallydisorganized the Marines have their own fighters, an AIM-9 from a helicopter isn't going to be nearly as effective as it doesn't have a continuous burn rocket motor like the Stinger does, so it won't be able to reach the same speeds as if it were launched by a fighter. It will only be really useful against helicopters and slow moving aircraft. While the AH-1Z CAN carry the AIM-9, they very rarely ever would.
Hell, every WW2 fighter squad with their 20 or 30mm autocannons would absolutely wreck any dragon. Unless their armour is magic or something. And for those wondering, yes, dragons would absolutely show up even on cold war era air surveillance radars. Bird swarms and large single birds show up too, and yearly swarm movements for example are routinely recorded by military air surveillance and transmitted to interested civil organisations. Initially it would be difficult to identify that strange contact on the radar, but adapt the filtering algorithm, and you're set.
If you are talking reign of fire only then yes they get destroyed If you are talking fiction In general then you haven't seen a lot of dragons Random dragons from fairy tail sneeze Earths collective military away Super shenron from dragon Ball would quite literally accidentally sneeze our galaxy away I can give more examples of fictional dragons that wipe the floor with earth
@@victormadu-chikwendu4308 They are magical creatures in a fantasy setting so of course they reign supreme. Anchoring them down to reality with feasible rules to biology just makes them a temporary nuisance before they learn to stay away from us or face extinction.
@@DoktorJammified no it won't Even if we apply real life logic and biology Most dragons will still eradicate the entire human race in minutes For example the dragons from fairy tale even if you assume they can be hurt by nukes and bombs Random dragons from fairy tale are more than capable of destroying planets in thier entirety
There is a Japanese anime that portrays this story beautifully. The premise is that inter-dimensional portals opened, and Japan was attacked by a fantasy army. The whole fucking lot of it. Knights, Warriors, Dragons, even sorcerors and wizards. They came out of that portal in full gung ho mode to conquer Earth. So the Japanese military showed up. Wizards got headshotted by snipers the moment they began casting spells and the arcane glow appeared around them. Knights, Warriors, with magical weapons and enchanted armour just got mowed down by standard infantry rifles. Dragon scales couldn't be pierced by bullets...so they simply got shot down by Anti Air Artillery, fighter jets and attack helicopters. It's a hilarious anime, I just don't remember the name :(
Yeah I watched some of it, but there was just like so much fanservince that it kinda got cringe. Which is a shame, the battle scenes were so cool. It's called Gate
That was the technological difference among human evolution. Even the Imperial Trolls prove to be a target for concentrated fire. Later when they do face off the dragon the F-100's get dunked on, almost literally. The manga and LN do depict tech specs of draghon and dragon skin from the sample (arm) they obtained to a detail. Its hard! .50cal just ticle the thing for funzies. When Itami faces off with minotaur (almost) on his own, he needs to lure it into a trap to even the chances. There is difference in fighting bandits and roman's with lesser wiverns vs fighting a mithical creature. Gate elevates that information on many occasions.
I remember doing a big project in college where we had to construct a phylogenetic tree of a fictional group of animals and place them accurately in the real-life tree of life (obviously they dont actually fit but the purposenof the excercise is to understand all the concepts behind phylogeny, taxonomy, and evolution). Based on every source i could get my hands on that came to over 100 different examples, dragons if real would have began as a small wyrm template branching from a basal squamate reptilian between 240 and 220 million years ago, long before a pure division between snakes and other reptile branches but definitely after the fork between squamata and rhyncocephalia.
yeah the limbs thing makes no sense. Chinese dragons don't have WINGS they're still called dragons. Why would 2 leg 2 win dragons not be dragons? And since when do wyverns spit fire? If it spits fire it's a dragon.
@@davidbodor1762 Eastern “dragons” aren’t really dragons. We call them dragons in English because they kinda vaguely resemble them and we didn’t have another word for them, but they are considered different mythical creatures to dragons (and have different names) in China/Japan/etc.
I'd like to think that Wyverns do count as dragons because of how some wyvern-looking creatures in medieval art were confirmed to be dragons (st. george's dragon especially), and how dragons are extremely broad and diverse across different cultures to the point that there's nothing that really defines what a dragon is. A dragon could be a giant multi-headed serpent, a 4-legged and winged saurian, a bird-like creature with feathers, a fish-like sea or lake monster, even a human-like character.
I have the same thinking about wyverns being a kind of dragon. There are also drakes, wyrms and lindwyrms, amphipteres, eastern dragons, hydras and other multiheaded dragons, sea dragons and serpents, the list goes on.
If it breathes fire, it's a dragon. It's not about the limb arrangement at all, that's a modern fallacy; Wyverns in lore were venomous winged serpents.
The irony is that the wyvern is the more realistic dragon than the usual European depiction of the dragon that the die-hards insist to be the true dragon. This is because mother nature don't like to give extra limbs especially to large organisms. This is why we don't see 6 limbed animals even on large ones that we think would benefit the most from 6 limbs. Even dinosaurs only have four limbs. European dragon isn't realistic. Their front legs would just increase their weight and hinder their capability to fly.
@@tessabakker662 Fire breathing is not something that readily defines a dragon because several other confirmed dragons did not breath fire. It is definitely a trope seen in western dragons, but even then there were some in european traditions that breathed poison (Fafnir), water (Gargouille), or nothing at all (Tarasque and Peluda).The bottom line is there's nothing that defines what a dragon is, they can be anything whether it is how they look, what they can do, how they behave, etc.
I reckon it makes more sense for the wyverns to be underground eating the rocks and minerals. When they wake up and go to the surface it could be more of a breeding season with the act of eating everything being a by-product of them breeding then returning to the underground. This is why the male wasn't to bothered about the humans until they invaded his territory. This is also why you never see a juvenile in the film as it is only the mature animals that are actively on the surface. The eggs within the animals is probably produced from females storing the dodo liquid like many reptiles do.
Frankly, any Earth-based monsterverse works way better with either an extra dimension or by leaning on the dumb-but-actual Hollow Earth conspiracy. The Dragons would be eating and breathing in Hollow Earth, then. King Kong got that right.
@@Stop_Gooning They eat ash. _Clearly_ their metabolism isn't based on using oxygen to oxidise sugars and fats, or at the very least, the reason they're scorching the earth has to do with micro-nutrients, not calories. Also, we don't know anything about that cavern, just that someone broke into it while mining. That doesn't mean that was the only opening. We know _very_ little about the wyverns and where they came from. All we know is that moment was when humans became aware of them. We don't know how many there were, how they breed, what they eat or breathe, where they live... The movie doesn't even try to answer these, because the humans in-universe _also_ don't know. Weirdly enough, it seems that a lot of the commenters on the video seem to be very confident about all of those things. I didn't know there were so many Golden Tickets around today :D
@@LuaanTi things that are unknown or unexplained can safely be assumed to be the same as the real world because before the beginning of the movie it _basically was_ the real world.
@@Stop_Gooning Of course. Except for the actual dragons, you know. Our metabolic pathway _isn't_ the only one possible, and is far, far from the only one being actively used on this planet right now. It's fair enough to say their hide cannot be impossibly strong. But it's absolutely clear that a human-like metabolism simply wouldn't work at all. It's not something you can ignore - it's crucial to the whole movie even.
50% of the comments: yes, rockets, missiles, jets, and bullets should definitely be effective against the wyvern. Other 50%: A wyvern is technically still a dragon. True dragons are the ones with 4 legs plus 2 wings.
Nothing technically about it Historically, the two were used interchangeably outside of coats of arms, and even in that, they were considered a style of dragon Even D&D, the source of this mess, labels them “lesser” dragons Because of just how varied dragons are across history and cultures, this argument about wyverns being dragons or not is stupid, because there are far, FAR less “true dragon” like creatures that still get labeled as dragons, and this argument only ever exists for wyverns Wyverns are A TYPE of dragon just like the eastern and European kinds are types of dragons
@@dragonriderabens9761 mh, i don't really consider wyvern as "types" dragons, cause while the Chinese and Japanese dragons are still called dragons the wyverns have in fact a different name so this is just a technicality but still, i don't think they can be considered dragons. I think that this argument depends a lot on how you classify dragons. If you use the mythological nomenclature yeah any big reptile with or without wings can be considered a dragon, so lindwurms, wyverns, cockatrices, quezacoactl, hydras and so on can all be considered dragons. Even with this type of classification i think that basilisks and Sea serpents are just snakes, mainly cause the basilisk is the "king of serpents" not the king of dragons, and the Sea serpents is well a sea serpent. However, as medieval heraldry was pretty accurate on the various crests and stuff, i think that if you use that type of classification than dragons are dragons and lindwurms are lindwurms and wyverns are wyverns and so on. So yeah it all comes down to the type of classification you use. Also, this is if we are talking about mythological dragons and dragons in heraldry. If we are talking about dragons is a specific universe than it's up to the author to decide whether wyverns are dragons or not. For example in dark souls it's specifically said that wyverns are not real dragons, while in DND wyverns are just a different type of dragons
@@bananaknight8575 Wyverns aren't a type of dragon because they have a different name...so, is every human being its own species because they have different names?
@@bananaknight8575 I’m glad you have enough sense to admit that the author has full discretion on if a wyvern qualifies as a dragon or not That’s the #1 reason I would give flak on it, is people will try to shove their own personal views on the matter (which is what Roanoke and several others in the comments section are doing) Everyone is welcome to their own view, but don’t try to enforce it on others If someone ties to enforce it on others, I’m going with the mythological view, because that’s what dragons are at the end: a myth If it’s YOUR work the you’re enforcing, that’s one thing. Your world, your rules. You can make dragons have 5 heads, 7 tails, 27 wings , 18 legs and be a hyper specific shade of purple, and anything else is not a dragon in your world and that’d be fine But in anyone else’s world, you got no right to enforce your personal views
Great video, except for one thing that I am going to argue: dragon or wyvern. First thing is that the term dragon encompasses a lot of different creatures of different body types. There include dragons with no limbs (snakes big enough to make titanoboa look a garter snake), dragons with two front legs (lindworms), dragons with feathered wings and bodies (Quetzalcoatl and the Piasa bird), dragons that are amalgamations of different animals (see the original myth of the Tarrasque), dragons that have four legs and no wings (Chinese lung or similar Far Eastern dragons), and, yes, dragons that have two legs and two wings (wyverns). Second, my understanding, possibly misjudged due to the excruciatingly vast array of dragon lore in and out of ancient mythology, is that the only reason a person would call a dragon a wyvern, apart from body type, is if the beast does NOT breathe fire. Either way, I recommend Overly Sarcastic Productions' video on dragons.
29:29 If an allosaurus was running and fell to the ground, the force of the collision would kill its brain on impact. A missile detonating in one of these wyvern's ears WOULD ring its bell, knocking it unconscious or at least rendering its balance incapable of keeping it in the air, making it crash to the ground and die on impact, EVEN IF the missile didn't kill it on detonation. Tow missiles are VERY accurate and mobile, and an apache helicopter can house over a dozen, and guide them to target from nearly a mile out. Heck, that's the U.S. doctrine for helucopter missile combat, and those dragons can only see so far and dodge so fast. Crushed ribs and heavy internal bleeding on center of mass impact IF the scales could absorb, Wing non-functionality on wing impact due to bone breaks or total membrane oblitteration, once again depending if the scales could absorb, leading to skyfall which equals death on ground impact. Same with headshots as detailed above. No matter how you slice it, air combat versus these things would be a pick-em-off from afar ordeal at WORST.
Your thinking of the AGM114 hellfire and that's an anti tank guided missile, the TOWs FCS was not put in the apache but the older version of the AH-1 had it (these mostly have been updated to use the 114), both are ATGMs but have limited use against slow low flying or hovering helicopters so it wouldn't be a stretch to bag a dragon with one
1.- the fact that I didn't hear about this movie starring McConaughey, Bale and Butler is wild to me 2.- man, WW2 era airplanes are probably enough to rip these wyverns to shred.
You expressed what I thought when I watched that movie. If the dragons/wyvern are strong and fast enough to hunt down jets, withstand bullets and avoid air to air missiles, you won't kill them with some maniacs jumping out of a helicopter or an axe. So logic is failing, maybe they should have used magic, anti wyvern poison, silver arrows or a biological weapon.
You could actually limit how far back they could have evolved by their bone structures too. You are right about humans - we scare the shit out of any creature that has ever existed on this planet. To be fair, even advanced aliens would think twice about colonising our planet - because we do this thing called Pyrrhic victories.
Ah yes, as we did with the Warthanes We taught the galaxy the meaning of the term I realize that's random, but I'm hoping you know the title to that short story because I would enjoy reading it again
Advanced Aliens would be as afraid of us as Rússia was of Geórgia or USA was afraid of Iraq. IF they got tech to get here, it's already over dude, don't be Delusional. It's not "War of Worlds" they won't get here and die from Small Pox, neither "Independence Day" we won't hack a shit... Our better chance is to help their kids with a flying bike and pray they won't want revenge for what the gov did against their kids, because we are doomed otherwise.
@@jaymthesn5981 well that's not really true. It's a rather euro-centric view of colonisation. A modern euro-centric phenomenon not borne out by our extended history. Many examples exist of sea faring people who failed to destroy civilisations that did not have that technology. The Vikings probably the most recent example. The Chinese and Koreans also. Being able to travel across a distance doesn't mean you will be successful in other endeavours.
not against smaug because the only that could harm him is a certain type of ero that's imbued with magic and since he would be in this world we don't got those arrows and rockets would probably just bounch of smaug.
@@lights_utopia1130 of course, they dindt have technology or missiles, he would be turned to a pile o flesh in seconds today lol, and font forget his insides would be turned to soap scales or not.
@@lights_utopia1130 if magic was available in the past, and then dragons reappeared in the present this would imply that the technology of magic has been around. In this instance in a modern setting there's really no indication why it is humanity wouldn't have access to said magic, and have incorporated into their projectiles. so in the instance smog is actually real and somehow survived to a modern day comparable to what we currently have there's probably good odds he's going to get laid waste to buy magically imbued bullets and or missiles. 🤷🏻♂️ So na in any setting where civilization is allowed to develop to an incredibly advanced state dragons don't stand a chance.
If they’re Dragons on this movie’s lore, they are dragons. Also Wyverns are a type of dragon. It’s like saying “that’s not a dog, it’s a German Shepard.”
@@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480 Yeah I noticed. But I've watched a similar video where the guy talking really explains everytime he hes a dragon that it not a dragon its a wyvern and I've had some arguments with people about it and it just pisses me of x)
Wyverns, drakes, wyrms, and sea serpents are all draconic and can thus be called dragons (DnD calls them "Lesser Dragons"), but true dragons are as you describe, two forelimbs, two hindlimbs, and two dorsal limbs that terminate in wing membranes.
the word "dragon" comes from the Greek term "drakon", meaning "huge serpent". it doesn't matter which one it is. it's still a dragon. wyvern, wyrm, knucker (which is Old English for "water monster", btw)... just another name for the same beast. and it does not have a distinct appearance; look at its depictions in medieval artwork. i may like the DnD logic, but i'm sick of it; seeing it nearly everywhere i look. and if dragons existed, they wouldn't look how we imagined them. i recommend the "history of dragons" from Fortress of Lugh.
@@jacktheomnithere2127 I agree with you on the overuse of DnD rules in other media, evolutionarily dragons would likely be saurian and, like we've learned of dinosaurs, they would probably be feathered and birdlike. If we were to be technical, birds are modern avian dinosaurs, which means they're part lizard, which means they are true to life wyverns.
Okay, one minor disagreement. Dragon is a general category of creatures. The term True Dragon is used for four legs and a set of wings. Wyvern is a dragon but no forelegs. Example, a Basilisk is a Dragon class. It has no wings but four legs Love your videos Roanoke, keep it up bro
The distinction is completely meaningless anyways, since dragons don't exist and any sense of "proper classification" is just some old setting lore that a bunch of nerds absorbed and try to enforce that lore on every other setting because that's what they learned. Being a "well, acksually it's a wyvern" pedant about something that's literal fantasy is hilarious. There's no phyllogenetic tree that includes real life 6-limbed dragons for people to actually have any leg to stand on with.
@@andrewcapra7153 so? This is literally a channel about apply actual scientific logic to fictional scenarios. What OP is suggesting is taxonomy of draconians, which guess what, is scientific logic applied to fictional scenarios.
@@boneman9751 it's not scientific logic though, it's arbitrary logic, with lines drawn haphazardly according to whatever fantasy lore the videomaker personally prefers. In Monster Hunter, which also has pseudo-scientific classifications for its various beasts, only Flying Wyverns match the "two wings, two legs" criteria from the video. Brute Wyverns can have no wings, and Piscene Wyvens can have only one set of legs, with no other set of limbs. Wouldn't it be equally absurd if someone came into the comments to insist that Roanoke was an idiot for calling Komodos a type of real life dragon, when they're acksully Fanged Wyverns, as you can tell by the four legs and belly low to the ground when they move?
The first week, maybe two, the wyverns would destroy everything in front of them while the military tries to figure out what the hell is happening. Once the world's military accepts that dragons are real and need to be killed they would be hunted down pretty quickly. Assuming that the wyverns disperse quickly it might take a year or so to hunt them all down and they would cause all kinds of problems in that time but we would survive and kick their but.
No, they wouldn't even do that, in some regions of the world where people aren't well armed maybe, but in places where rifles are easy to get the dragons would be killed ridiculously quickly, because the thing about flight is that it's super resource intensive, so combined with rapid growth and breeding that means they'd have to eat a whole lot, which people with small arms might not be able to easily kill a fully grown dragon, but youngins would be easy prey
lol weeks? that thing came out in the middle of London, it would be burning buildings for about 30 minutes before they scramble jets and shred it in half with 25mm gatling guns, that those things would be dead within an hour, every one of them that surfaced, and if they try to run they'd get scanned by radar and hunted down. wouldn't take a week or two for the military to make a decision when they are actively flying over and burning a major city like london
“Cows and cats look really weird in medieval paintings” -proceeds to show a drawn cow that looks 100 times better than anything I could draw even though I’ve seen thousands of cows lol Edit: also a wyvern is a type of dragon
A wyvern is a sub-class of dragon, yes; but calling a wyvern a dragon is like calling a dog a wolf. They're related but still distinct, with one clearly outclassing the other.
You're right. Dragon is a broad term that covers a lot of creatures, even in the most nerdy modern chronicles (D&D). It's more akin to a classification than a specific kind of creature.
@@fionladfinley281 Well i think its best to think like .. we have Dogs thats the common term we use for all of them, from those shaky rats to bear hunting giants xD
So I can imagine a scenario where the fast breeding guard the male eating ash lifestyle works. The Wyverns are a prey animal. It'd be like an army and colony that terraforms and hunt limited areas, but get eaten/killed I droves most of the time. They eat ash to recycle nutrients, either in volcanic regions or simply where they opt to nest. What would eat these things you ask? How about honest to God Dragons, cartilage rather than bones but armor and muscles that'd make a Saltwater Croc regret waking up. And other such creatures that maybe didn't fossilize. Think of the Monster Hunter world, where even the top predators are always at risk of being predated themselves, and thus have huge crazy defenses.
That would be pretty interesting. The dragons are veritable tanks and are pretty much immune to the fire and claws and too heavy for the wyverns to lift. Also a fight scene of several massive dragons slowly climbing up a volcano with dozens of wyverns buzzing around trying to slow the dragons down. Almost like a predator attacking an ant hill
@@RapTapTap69 YES, THIS And where are the dragons now? Well, they didn't have a hibernation cycle cause they had plenty of dinosaurs to eat. They all went extinct, the Wyverns survived cause of their hibernation. I still can't explain the millions of years thing but eh.
Unless you’re playing D&D, “dragon” is more a word like “fairy” or “demon” than any specific taxonomic term splittin’ wyverns from drakes, lungs, linorms, etc. Wyverns are dragons like pixies are fairies. Edit: People keep on misreadin’ or misunderstandin’ me point, so have a fun video that’d a far more entertainin’ explanation than some comments. Best ta know what yer debatin’ at the very least: ua-cam.com/video/3eXAPwjASEQ/v-deo.html
Humans are vindictive at a level no other species has ever been, yes some animals like Tigers have gotten revenge on the person that hurt them, but humans will hunt down an entire species to extinction if we feel it is a threat or if we get board or feel it has really pretty feathers, RIP Dodo's.
I should point out that this is a very recent phenomena born out of luxury and decadence. Ancient hunter gatherers did not do this because they needed to participate in the ecosystem and so had a vested interest in keeping said ecosystem healthy. Ancient tribal religion (and even the religions of much more modern hunter gatherers, yes they still exist) stigmatized hunting too heavily because it oFfEnDeD tHe GoDs but what this really meant was "don't overhunt an area so that you can still hunt later." The phenomenon of Humanity wiping out entire species is born of the decadence of humankind basically removing itself from the ecosystem and existing semi-independently of it, leading us to believe we don't need to care about nature anymore.
@@moritamikamikara3879 Take a look at the more recently extinct fauna of New Zealand for an example of hunter-gatherers over hunting species. Some societies may have been careful about over hunting, but for many it came down to a simple equation " Do I have enough to eat? No= Hunt, Yes= Don't hunt". If your tribe/ family is hungry, you kill what you can, if a species dies out....so be it. Many hunter-gatherer societies are/ were nomadic precisely because they'd hunt-out an area. The difference nowadays is population density, ancient peoples were, for the most part, simply not numerous or "efficient" enough to make large dents in otherwise healthy populations of prey species. In those locations where they were, species disappeared pretty quickly. There is an argument to be made that our sense of "revenge" or "vindictiveness" developed specifically to protect us from predation. A group-wide emotional response to the loss of a group member sufficiently strong to override individual self-preservation and encourage a social hunt of the predator responsible so as to remove it from the immediate area. This would have the potential to reduce the risk of predation, for a while at least....and is possibly one reason why many land based predators avoid humans, especially in a group. Over time, those predators that tried to make us a major source of food were exterminated. Those that remain (by and large) avoid us whenever feasible. There are a few exceptions of course, large crocodilians being a case in point.
Do you know how fast a Plane can be flying and a computerized anti-aircraft system will STILL take it out just fine? Those wyverns don't exactly fly at mach 2, and apparently, 50 cal can take one down in one shot. These things are less tough than elephants, for crying out loud! Sure, maybe they're a bit of a combat challenge, but seriously, these things would cause less deaths than covid did in its first year.
There wouldn't be any challenge at all, i'm pretty sure even a single manpad system could wipe the floor with the dragon, not even C-400, Patriot and other systems
The fact that they're slow is the problem. There is no heat-signature to lock on to. Nothing to track. People with military experience have already pointed out in this comment thread how difficult it would be to track a dragon. These things fly close to the ground and are capable of rapid unpredictable 360 degrees movement. Now imagine tracking it through a heavily populated urban center as it flies between skyscrapers and setting fire to everything. How is your MACH 2 going to help you exactly? Of course, you're real problems aren't the dragons. Your real problems are the thousands of unprotected power plants across the continent. Imagine dealing with a dozen nuclear meltdowns all at once. Now imagine dealing with a hundred. Also, a cool thing about cities? When they start burning they kind of don't stop. They can burn for months. Years. Now imagine having to deal with millions upon millions of refugees living every single major city on the planet which are currently on fire.
@@DrevorReal We probably won't have any nuclear meltdowns, nuclear plants can be relatively safely be shut down, also we're able to deal with way smaller planes flying close to the ground, we have a bunch of ww2 anti air guns and other stuff that could kill the dragons. Also those dragons use flame to destroy things, so they're probably pretty hot. Also laser guided missiles exist
01:11 A Wyvern is literally defined as a type of Dragon with two legs, wings, and often a barbed tail (possibly tipped with a scorpion stinger). Saying that a Wyvern isn't a Dragon is like saying a tiger isn't a cat just because it isn't a housecat. Dragons are a very diverse group of semi-reptilian fictional beasts: some have two legs & wings, some have four legs & wings, some have no legs or wings, some have wings but no legs, some have four legs & no wings, some have two legs & no wings, some have fins instead of wings or legs, some have many legs or many wings, some breathe fire or ice or acidic poison, some exhale bolts of lightning or blasts of boiling steam, some can talk & use magic, some are just mindless animals, some are covered only in scales, some have feathers or hair, some have horns, some have fangs, some have beaks, etc.
Some of them don't even tick the "reptilian" box! Some depictions has them have the head of a bearded dude and a really long neck and a pair of bat wings. Wacky and, quite frankly, terrifying.
THANK YOU!!! His definition of dragons completely excludes the Lung/Eastern style dragon, which you will NOT hear anyone argue is not a dragon I literally only see this argument regarding wyverns, and I am sick and tired of it
Wyverns are not dragons. They don't fit either into western or eastern definition of dragons. They are looking more close to bats with draconic features.
i can't tell you how glad i am somebody final criticizes this i remember watching this movie at like 11 and asking my mom how could humans lose the war, even then i was questioning it and was surprised i remember her telling me how dragons won simply due to sheer numbers but ever since then to this day it made no sense to me, dragonsd defeating modern army equals human planes defeating some huge alien warship that has invincible tech, its simply impossible without a miracle.
There were millions of dragons and you are greatly overestimating how many fighter jets and tanks the world actually has. Yeah one on one a fighter jet is killing a dragon but in the world of the movie the fighter jet would be completely out of ammo to reload with after running 10s if not 100s of sorties.
@@derfvcderfvc7317 its not just fighter jets and tanks, you have to account for LAV systems, general shelling mortar fire, personal anti air missile systems, submarines with missile systems along every coast around the world. Battle carriers with laser guided missile systems, thousands of apache helicopters etc etc......not to mention once we figured out where they were nesting we would just nuke the shit out of it. Dragons simply wouldn't stand a chance. We are the most powerful species that has ever existed on this planet and the strongest that ever WILL exist on this planet, mythical or otherwise.
@@ericpaunovic3579 How on earth do you imagine us winning a war against hundreds of thousands of fire-breathing dragons while all our major cities are on fire and supply lines break down?
YEAAAAAA this is my favorite dragon movie!!!! So glad you’re exploring Reign of Fire. I love how they explained how their fire is basically a napalm from two chemicals combining in their mouth. They put so much thought into making them believable dinosaur age creatures and the CG still holds up. The Game of Thrones dragons were actually inspired by the dragons in this film.
It's hard to believe they can sleep for so long, but if you look at tardigrades they wake up because of the presence of water, so definitely some external process can reactivate a body.
Even flak is pretty old technology. I could imagine a continuous rod warhead literally slicing one of these into multiple pieces. The big issue would be ammunition supply, because modern weapons that could deal with something like this with relative ease aren't really that plentiful. However, even in that situation, basically any modern machine shop could pump out big bore firearms, and with our big ole' brains, it wouldn't take long to figure out exactly what was needed to take one of these out, come up with a suitable design, and then use our instant communication magic to disseminate that to every machine shop in the world.
Actually most countries still posess stock piles of old era flak tech either because noone buys it or because they want to have something that is inexpensive to deal with low altitude planes like the c130
Whenever I think of dragons in a modern day scenario, I have to think about the anime Gate. Modern AAA would absolutely shred the smaller ones, and a heat seeking sidewinder missile should work on large specimen.
Exactly. They shot them down and just hammer them with artillery. I don't care how magical you are, you aren't brushing that off. Plus, that gear is considered old with what a more modern military has, or at the very least claim they have.
@@mattstorm360 This just made me realize this: I wonder how easy WW2 manufacturing and materials would be to make nowadays? Like building a factory with comparable capabilities would be a joke, but I wonder if you could order WW2 quality flak cannon barrels from a modern era pipe factory for example?
@@johnstonefield1935 Extruded pipe and hammer forged, machine turned gun barrels don't even compare regardless of it being a rifle barrel of 23mm flak barrel
It is actually kind of interesting how nearly every culture on earth has some kind of depiction of dragons in their mythologies and said cultures, were often geographically and chronologically isolated from each other with no contact. How is it that so many civilizations that would have had no contact with each other all came up with the same basic creature?
Well we do have a tendency to 1. Imagine creatures big (giant, titans etc) 2. Imagine creatures with wings (Angels, Gargoyles feathered serpent etc) So just take a lizard, make it big, attach some wings and you get a dragon Uncovering dinasaurs bones might have something to do with it as well
How I see it, the word “dragon” is used around like the word “bug.” Everyone calls any creepy-crawler a bug, when most of the time they are wrong. It’s all colloquial. Spiders aren’t bugs. Ants aren’t bugs. Beetles aren’t bugs. Bees aren’t bugs. Etc. Examples of scientific “True Bugs” are cicadas, whiteflies, bedbugs, stink bugs, and aphids.
I agree, the wyvern thing is so fucking annoying. Maybe historically dragons had 4 limbs or whatever but in the world of Reign of Fire they call these things dragons. There's no need to imbrace your inner Sheldon with the wyvern distinction.
Many European cultures didn't even have wyverns as a mythical creature, that was just one (of many ways) to draw a dragon. It's like getting upset that not every portrayal of an intelligent fox is accurate to a Kumiho. "Aesop's fables are wrong because the only talking foxes have multiple tails" "Native American folklore is incorrect because the fox doesn't use beads to suck the life force out of men with kissing" "How dare Pokémon have ninetales as a usable Pokémon?! It should be killing people and eating their hearts and livers, you can't be friends with one!"
I actually read that all Dragons, drakes and wyrms were in the wyvern family. So I guess it depends on the authors imagination. Wyvern was the family and a dragon had four or more legs, a drake had two and a wyrm had no legs, but all were Wyverns. Of course I wasted alot time trying to differentiate between a cockatrice and a basilisk. Went through alot of books, depending on the authors the differences varied. Number of legs if any, whether or not it had wings. What kind of egg was sat upon by what animal or geographic location were all brought up by different authors. I don't think there's some ancient set lore about Wyvern, Dragons, drakes and wyrms, I kinda just stuck with the best of the theories I have read over the years, very jumbled subject. A cockatrice had wings and no legs or two legs, making it a wyrm or drake. But a Basilisk has been depicted so many different ways???? With or without wings and from no legs to ten legs.. The fact that it could have up to ten legs would suggest a wyrm, drake or dragon. There was also one theory that has to do with age, the younger start off with no wings or legs and as it ages it grows them. Changing it's name as it goes through metamorphosis. I believe that theory had wyrms growing into wyvern and drakes growing into dragons.. Two entirely different species. Kind of like a tadpole into a frog and a caterpillar into a butterfly. Wyrms and wyvern amphibians, drakes and dragons solely on land. The cockatrice was an entirely different species than the basilisk, but both had similar characteristics. In this case coming from a Cockrell egg would make it land dwelling, while a basilisk coming from a snake's or toad's egg would suggest more amphibian. The second theory is more supportive of what's the difference between a cockatrice and a basilisk. It also helps to explain why you see more dragons and wyrms, less of drakes and Wyverns. Dragons being land and air bigger and easily spotted. Easily confused with the wyvern in the air, even though the wyvern is semi-aquatic. Wyrms being smaller and flightless would stick to shallow water to keep away from the larger dragons and wyvern. Not sure which theory I like better.
So, for those of you who do not know, Yes wyverns are a type of dragon. Anyone who says "Dragons have 4 legs and a pair of wings as a third set of limbs" knows very little about dragons and has never actually researched them nor the many broad mythologies they come from. Dragons have been, across the world and though out time been depicted as everything from giant flying snakes with no limbs, to bipedal creatures with many wings. even massive large serpents, the word "Dragon" means "Terrible Serpent".
dragons = 6 total limbs (4 legs and 2 wings) wyvern = 4 limbs (2 wings and legs) drakes = legs only wyrms = no legs/snake-like according to my own personal research and notes in my archive...
@@kairou_mikael you didnt actually do any research did you? or are you claiming that all chinese and Japanese dragons arent dragons and all chinese/japanese people are wrong about their own mythologies? That Jörmungandr , the norse sea dragon isnt a dragon and all norse mythology had it wrong? That the very meaning of the word 'dragon' : Terrible/large serpent was been wrong for the entire time it has existed ? that you alone are right and millions of people across hundreds of cultures across hundreds of years are wrong?
@@slayazes3925 yeah I'm not really offended by it so it's fine, but like I said it's based on my own PERSONAL findings and depictions cuz to me the different types of dragons are like the different types panthers which are the big cats... and as for the japanese and chinese dragons, and probably Jormungand, I'd personally classify them as wyrms as they're snake-like
@@slayazes3925 It's Cultural context. I'm Asian, we have a dragon here who eats the Moons, and it is indeed more serpent like. Which is very different from Western dragons, The point is the Cultural Context is the difference, this movie is clearly Western and not Asian, so I'm not gonna enforce my own mythology and beliefs on it. Think about it this way, Man's best friend in another world, but lunch in another. I don't mean to offend, just proving a point. They're both called dragons, but it's extremely different whether you're from the East or the West. Just find the ground you're standing it, and view it from that point. It's not like the movie has American actors but took place in China.
Great video! Would love to see a sequel where time has passed and humans have begun attempting to domesticate them. Like a real life horror version of HTTYD. One of my favorite movies growing up for sure. Definitely in line with movies like Deep Blue Sea and Anaconda. 🥰
I would've loved a sequel to this movie. Like, what if the egg that was pulled from the dead female was still able to be incubated and it was raised to protect the humans whilst they learn another Bull was found or had awakened over in France, idk, but it would still be a cool concept as these Wyverns seem very primitive and aggressive. Would've been cool to see one raised to be not like the rest of its kind.
All wyverns are dragons but not all dragons are wyverns. It's a common misunderstanding but there are actually 100s of dragon species out there in myths and stories but all of them have that one thing in common. For example there is a dragon species, I forget there name, that have no wings and 6 legs. There still dragons but they look alot different.
I always took it as "Not all dragons are wyverns, but all wyverns are dragons," but regardless, great video! This is a really fun movie and it's cool to see people talking about it. It's silly and ridiculous, but the effects are spectacular, and it has a certain charm to it.
"dragon drăg′ən noun A mythical monster traditionally represented as a gigantic reptile having a long tail, sharp claws, scaly skin, and often wings. Any of various lizards, such as the Komodo dragon or the flying lizard. A fiercely vigilant or intractable person." There's nothing about the amount of legs, wings etc, that's the DnD crowd having a meltdown that their fictional classification of something thousands of years older than their shitty lore isn't conforming to it.
@@Ackalan classifications for dragons were done by scholars in the middle ages and not by some 4chan fantasy nerds. those species names existed for roughly 500 years befor projects like dnd picked them up and integrated them into modern day fiction.
"How would they wake up?" Oxygen exposure. At any rate, the big issue is the size, and the combination of other features. There's plenty of stuff that survives for insanely long periods of time, but for this scale all of it's bacterial or otherwise very simple stuff like worms.
Yep, anything larger can hibernate for some time, but if you've seen a bear that goes back to being fully active after winter hibernation, you can see how much weight they lost during their nap time.
I'd buy it more if there were some other symbiotic species down in those caves with them. They could even make a scientific version of other mythological creatures. I'm guessing creatures that would convert minerals into nutrients for the dragon and the sleeping dragon giving them heat to live off?
After watching Unnatural History Channel, (a good companion to this one I think) One of the concepts that stood out to me is the "Fox in the Hen house" behavior issue. In summery a predator kills everything it can because it doesn't know when it's next meal is. If we consider that humanity is top dog we can note that humans deliberately do not kill everything thus meaning that we actually are a rather merciful species that goes out of it's way to kill well beneath our means. Just a funny thought to consider. Anxiety apes number 1 (also when my dad first saw that convoy years ago he immediately said "they're dead")
The reason we don't kill everything is because we know that there's gonna be food on the plate, hell we're less merciful cauz instead of killing everything for survival reasons the Soviets and Americans were about to destroy the entire world multiple times cauz they think slightly different about the governance
We’ve merked plenty species basically for the hell of it. We don’t just kill everything that we could because we know that it’s not necessary to do that to survive, not because we’re merciful.
My explanation to the inconsistencies with the Wyverns within the film was just chalked up to magic. Dragons have always been sighted as magically inclined creatures being able to use it, be spawned by it or simply exist due to it. Perhaps magic is what makes the Wyverns in the film not only inconsistent and confusing to our understanding of science but so freaking tough as well. I know magic could be seen as a cop-out answer but, it's the only one I have.
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby Least sometimes if its different dimensions the argument holds some ground cause the physics and what makes up the building blocks or evolution of creatures would be 100% foreign to our world and its chemicals and atoms
I think it's worth noting that "magic" is not really an accurate display. For example "Magic" could be considered breathing fire. We now know it's not impossible for something to breath fire with the proper combinations of chemicals that can be shot from sacks within the back of the mouth which will ignite upon either combination with each other, or access to a larger quantity of oxygen. I sort-of feel like there would certainly be a scientific explanation for these things. 100 years ago I don't think most people could have considered something that could "breath fire" to be plausible outside of magic but it certainly is. For example a small metal projectile like a bullet may not be able to pierce the scales of a creatures, especially if it hits in the center of that scale. A wedge-shaped object fired at high velocity *Like a machine fired arrow.* Could find a weakness within the armored scales of the creature. Kind of how chainmail can deflect many things, but can also be completely void when engaging in another type of attack. Chainmail is very good at stopping a slashing motion of a sharpened sword edge, but is pretty shit at stopping a directed "thrust" from the point of a sword or spear. A more modern example would be Kevlar vests can be very efficient at stopping a bullet, but at close courters with a knife or sword really does nothing to prevent potential injury outside of requiring slightly more force for the blade to penetrate. Even an explosive charge would be a larger force, but also over a larger area. The scales could absorb that larger blow, but if it was more directed like a spear-point than it could punch through the groove of a scale into the body bellow. Consider the structure of a chicken egg. Squeezing a chicken egg in your palm won't really break it even if you try your hardest. But a simple direct hit on a smaller angle can crack the egg in two regardless if you are using much less force than trying to crush it in the palm of your hand.
The dragon's could never take on the military but they don't have to be a geological wolrd emergency that would ruin millions of lives if 100 dragons were flying over new york rn it be chaos
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Thanks for watching guys! Hope yall enjoyed!
When the film began they had become disordered, addicted & all that entails..
I would like you to do a video on the faced mechon from xenoblade chronicles
Could you do The Mist soon? Its got tons of interesting creatures without a ton of info on them.
Day 1 of trying to get Roanoke Gaming to do a video on the Proto-molecule from The Expanse.
That guy was matthew acanofhay? Dayum, didn't recognize him. He was the most badass in the movie.
The main issue i have with reign of fire is how it’s explained tbh. “The dragons were quick” yeah but a F-22 is quicker
Bingo
I would say that the scales are tougher as in Myths there’s usually a Maguffin or some sort like a Magic sword or spear so bullets maybe not so much but I agree a missile or something would hurt
Maybe it's not an issue of speed but maneuverability?
@@Notthebloodgod812 But Dragons in this case was presented completely scientifically, with even a popular scientific theory presented within this world as to how a Dragon would logically breathe fire.
@@maylabrown4584 oh I was just implying that the dragons scales were just super dense
I remember a great quote from a sci fi book I read awhile ago “Humans try so hard not to get involved in war, not because they are afraid of it, but because they are very, very good at it”
What book?
@@warmonkey3216 I'm taking a shot in the dark with this guess, but maybe Speaker for the Dead. That paraphrase would make sense in the story. Since humanity committed xenocide on the first intelligent life we found, then felt rather bad about it afterwards.
Look at our closest relative on the world today - the chimpanzee. They are incredibly violent animals. I'm not saying that gives humans an excuse to be violent, but it explains a lot.
@@lunaticbz3594 goddamn, welp I now know the next book I’m reading
@@americansoviet9908 It's the direct sequel to Ender's Game. There's a lot of books in the series but the only one you have to read is the first one.
Fun fact: elephants have also been recorded taking revenge on humans. There was a poacher that was trampled to death by elephants, the same elephants later wrecked the poacher’s funeral and trampled the corpse.
Wasnt that the grandma?
Yup. Don't fuck with elephants. Thinking about elephants keeps me up many nights. Did you know they can paint other elephants? Without training? Stop to think about what that means. The answer is some degree of self-awareness. Your 5 year old has less skill in painting a representative interpretation of your species than an elephant does. It's depressing. I'm super grateful that other people recognize how special they are, and have built special elephant migratory paths under bridges and shit. I truly hope that anyone who gets caught poaching an elephant is brought to justice, or raped and murdered in a dirt packed alley somewhere since the places where this happen tend to not really have any degree of justice. Elephants and Killer Whales, man.... They keep me up at night. Humans are terrible, most of them.
Wasn’t a poacher. But someone who had helped the poacher in exchange for something. She was just a grandma of someone in the village
*you diss an elephant and you invite unfortunately bad and agonizing things into your soon to be abbreviated existance*
Sounds like a fair fight.
Roanoke: "Where are they even getting the fuel for the chopper?"
Me: *stares* *at* *wyverns* *with* *burning* *intensity*
Funny, I had this exact argument with my sister a few days ago, because she was saying that a nightfury from httyd would be strong enough to overpower the US military.
It literally got to the point I was on paper in front of her using trigonometry to calculate how fast toothless flies (if you are interested, most of the time he cruises around at a chill 70 mph, but at his fastest he's going 480mph) and then showing her how fast jets are, the rockets they fire, bullets, drones, and reminding her that toothless almost got killed by a 15 year old with a pocket knife!
All hiccup had to do was lead the shot and get a little lucky. Not that hard.
770 mph is about what it would take to break a sound barrier at Sea level, this is something that toothless can be seen doing. Your calculation is off and this makes his speed at the level that the military would be using, bullets still really fast and they too break the Sun barrier. He probably would get gone if it will placed bullet hit him, but good luck figuring out where to strike, and when you can unleash plasma from your mouth which is the hottest thing and at the core his plasma is white and at the edge it is a light blue to purple, oh boy it will melt through military equipment like a hot knife through butter. But toothless is one and he has limited shots which are inconsistent, and Toothless is going up against millions. Good luck surviving a fight up against millions.
@@assfuckerthejointpounder5834
Yes but you see, we have seen him break the sound barrier, but at the same time you can see objects in the background, seeing those objects move past, and knowing how long toothless is, you can figure out that's while they show toothless breaking the sound barrier, they show him doing it going way slower than 770 mph.
Either the show the background moving by to slow, or he didn't actually break the sound barrier, seeing as hiccup is not completely dead with is skin peeled off, we can assume it's the latter.
We can also assume this because not once do we ever see toothless or hiccup having trouble hearing what's going on around them while flying at their max speeds, which would be impossible if they were going 770 mph.
And even if he was going 770, we have Surface to air missiles that could easily catch him.
Shattering some illusions is worth it..
Yeah... did your sister forget that Hiccup was able to catch it with a net? lol
I’ve never understood why so many films have their main threats be completely immune to bullets. I mean, I get why from a movie perspective because if bullets did work there wouldn’t be a movie. But at the same time, from a realistic standpoint 90% of movie monsters have no reason for their immunity to bullets.
Like u don't need werewolves and vampires having bulletproof skin
This is why I like the thing because it's invulnerable to typical arms but not in the "it's too tough" category you can have a creature menacing yet vulnerable, you just have to play with different ideas like predator for instance he's not invulnerable he uses advanced tech and skill or alien where damaging it is just as dangerous as avoiding it do to the blood
In my case, my parents tell me to shut up and watch the movie when I start pointing it out. Ak=gun=hurt
well, on the size of these critters, it's assumed they're just extremely resistant to standard ammo. heck some people nowadays can shrug off a 32, or 9mm mag dump if hit in the gut, Boars, Bears, and a LOT of Large animals get annoyed with anything smaller than something starting with 4 in it's caliber description, So a city bus sized lizard would in theory shrug off most anything that doesn't have Armor Piercing or doesn't start with a 12 or a .5 in it's name. As a reminder, your 556 and 762 aren't much larger than an average 22 caliber and is mostly designed for things with thin skin, and usually without armor.
that Said, if most the world, the UK excluded had a day or 2's heads up on this most of us would be more than able to sort it out.
Yeah, every writer in these movies is 'eh....bullets don't work....because. But an arrow does'.
Wow, so they just defaulted to nukes like humanity didn't have years worth of AA missile technology, jets and other aircraft that would absolute wreck these wyverns? Gotta love movie logic sometimes 😂
@Random Platypus with Internet Exactly... the good old Flak-Quadguns from WW2? Guess they would make minced meat out of those swarms in no time and without breaking a sweat.
@Random Platypus with Internet I need a movie that's set the day after WW2 ends where dragons invade, and there's dogfights between spitfires and dragons. An early jet like a Meteor Vs a Dragon would also be awsome.
You are right huge face palm we have so much ammo bomb s rocket s just to simply every millimeter by millimeter killed the planet and we still have left for round 2
Leftovers for round 2
Sorry, but no. If you've been keeping up with AA capability (the conflict in ukraine is an awesome open source and real world study on the capabilities and study of modern AA), you'll remember hearing maybe at some point that the US has a lack of available stinger missiles. Current stockpiles of man-portable anti aircraft missiles are limited, as are the capabilities to reproduce them. The US has been drawing down air defense artillery battalion for a long time, mostly because we haven't fought any near peers for a while and we've had air superiority for a long time. Stinger have a limited shelf life because of the cooling system required for the infrared seeker. And wyvern wouldnt put off much of a radar signature. Old school flak cannons, sure, but how many capable aa cannons are around? With available ammo with fuses set? And how many trained personnel are around to fire them that wouldn't be pretty quickly torched by a pissed off horde of wyverns?
Point is, we have the technology, but we probably don't have the scale to deal with them even at the outset. Even fighter jets taking them on in the air, we just wouldn't have enough that are capable to do the job. We would default to nukes pretty quickly.
Just want to add that plenty of dragons in medieval depictions have only had two legs. The main thing that sets them apart from wyverns is that wyverns are associated with venom and dragons are associated with fire. Usually, though, wyverns were a type of dragon rather than a separate thing entirely.
All Wyverns are dragons but not all dragons were Wyverns sort of deal?
@@giuseppe9653 Pretty much. But the number of legs isn't necessarily the deciding factor. If it breathes fire it's not a wyvern.
Nerd.
I mean, I don't see an issue with taking some creative liberty with something that never existed to begin with. I feel like it's OK to modify fiction to be as fictitious as the writer likes.
Where did you get this info from? Even in early medieval, pre medieval times they made the distinction of wyverns having 2 legs + wings and dragons having 4 legs + wings, nothing about what they 'shoot', earliest surviving of depictions wyverns and dragons did not even 'shoot' anything and were more like winged crocodiles/snakes that would devour people, their bodies being more like chimeras consisting of multiple animal parts. What im trying to say is even in medieval depictions the 2 legged ones were wyverns and called such, and the 4 legged ones are dragons, and you could see wyverns as a lesser form of dragons, while dragons being the real danger in size and power.
So why not use Surface to Air Missiles, Anti-Aircraft Force Multipliers, The force Multipliers with wings known as an A-10, F-22s, F-35s, and all other forms of air to air combat?
WE AREN'T CAVEMEN ANYMORE! WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY!!!
I know right? A freaking harpoon brought one down
@@RoanokeGaming well yeah but I mean that's a harpoon. What hope does 30mm uranium rounds being fired at nearly 70 per second have against it?
Just use bullet storm, it can fire 1,000,000 rounds per second
And there is America they would make a anti dragon force multiplier like they are experts in anti sum bitch machines all the time
Fighter Jets surely are faster than dragons but lose in every other aspect , who knows if they could even land missiles? These beasts are shown to be very quick and maneuverable.
Also you have to think about the fact of how quickly we can even mobilize against millions of super fast fire breathers that suddenly spawn out of the ground.
That's always my biggest gripe with all these monster movies. Magic beasts that can take out tanks and missiles... but a few plucky ex gym teachers can take them out with pointy sticks. "If it bleeds, we can kill it"-- words of wisdom from one of the best movies ever.
Or bananas...
If it was realistic, the movie would have ended before it even started
"Let's give 'em a taste of ol' Painless."
I just go like Roland and carry a big iron. Pretty confident I can kill anything I feel like killing.
Dragon wouldn't last two seconds in a universe where SAM's existed lmao
There's an elephant in the room that I haven't seen any one mention. The dragons would simply be too big to multiply as quickly as they do, to go from hatchling to adult that quickly their metabolisms would have to be running so fast they'd either overheat and explode or simply starve faster than they could eat. Even if one dragon carried 100 eggs, and all eggs managed survive the death of the dragon, it would take a long time for 100 adult dragons to come out of that, and that's assuming none are killed in the process of growing up.
Would that work if for the first time of their lives they are more aquatic? To help with the cooling and such?
@@luclin92 It would help to some extent, but you can still only lose heat so fast. I'd imagined they'd have to have similar body shape to stingrays to maximize their surface area to lose heat faster, only transforming into the adult body shape around the end of their growth, and depending on much their scales block heat, they might have to simply not have them at birth, and grow them last. This of course, still doesn't get around the issue of how much food the growing dragons would need. They'd have literally to eat constantly, not even being able to sleep without starving to death, and they also couldn't hunt without expending more energy than they could ever get back from their prey, meaning they'd rely off of adults constantly bringing large amounts of food. If those adults ever get shot down, that could risk starving the juveniles.
Humboldt squid have a ridiculous growth for their metabolism as well. It's not entirely out of the realms of possibility with exception of their ash diet. It would definitely hamper their size as far as nutrition would go
@@BLOODKINGbro the Humboldt squid is a much smaller animal, which helps with heat, as a smaller object has a higher surface area to volume ratio than a larger object with the same proportions. Perhaps the dragon hatchlings wouldn't run in to overheating issues at first, but as they get closer to adulthood the risk only increases. The square-cube law would really work against them, with each doubling in dimensions cubing the amount of heat production but only squaring the amount of heat loss. You also cubing the amount of energy needed to double your dimensions again. This is less of an issue for a smaller animal, since they are so small that they won't have much trouble finding many times there bodyweight in food anyway. Also despite being smaller allowing an animal to grow faster proportional to its current body size, the Humboldt squid still takes a whole year to reach adult, which while impressive, even if the dragons could pull this off (which they couldn't) it still might not be quick enough to replace casualties, especially considering a lot of eggs wouldn't result in an adult due to some dragons being killed by the humans before they can, starvation due to the ridiculous amount of food they'd need, cannibalism due for the same reason as the last, disease due to the fact they've been sleeping underground for millions of years meaning they'd be I'll equipped to deal with any modern diseases that mutate into being capable of infecting them, made worse by the fact that the immune system of living things tend to be pretty weak at the start of live, not to mention most embryos probably wouldn't survive if the dragon carrying them died (the mother's body would only shield them so much if they came crashing down from miles in the air after getting shot down.) It seems unlikely they could replace loses fast enough, they'd probably need to reach maturity in months at most, but they'd require several years at the least.
It would makes sense if they trully were magical dragons, in essence powerful and intelligent, we as humans with all our technology would be completely obliterated by magic, we have no defenses against it.
Like Skyrim dragons.
Everyone always asks wyvern, but no one ever asks howvern
*somber wyrm noises*
are you proud of that
Why not Wy
This is a spot on analysis! A thousand wyverns suddenly appearing would cause havoc initially, but our military response would ruthlessly exterminate such a threat. Wyverns are vertebrates adapted for flight, so their armour has to be light and limited to vital areas. Small-arms might not be able to hurt them much, but .50 cals can penetrate an inch of modern steel armour. Then we have AFV's armed with 20mm, 30mm or even 40mm autocannon, which were all developed from AA-weapons designed to destroy warplanes. Nothing with a pulse is going to survive a faceful of 20mm. Then we have MANPAD weapons designed to kill aircraft or armoured vehicles.
Needless to say, any wyverns seeking safety in the sky would be easy targets for modern fighter jets. If the wyverns retreated underground, we'd use GPR to find them, and kamikaze robots/drones to destroy them.
Would end like gait but less human casualties and faster without ground forces and human riders trying to use tactics
@@josephmontanaro2350 WTF does any of that word salad mean?
@@josephmontanaro2350 gait?
@@OneSaltyBruh i think he's talking about the Gate anime
Unless they were magical creatures, a large-caliber handgun and almost any rifle period would probably be all you'd need to penetrate the head or chest of any living creature capable of flight in earth's atmosphere. An elephant; a far more durable creature than any flyer could possibly be, and the most durable non-aquatic vertebrate you could possibly test a gun on would die to a single well-aimed magazine of AK-47 fire; and honestly it would probably have been dying before the end of that first clip, you'd mostly just need to keep shooting to make it die -fast-. A small squad of armed poaches has destroyed multiple entire herds of elephants armed with AKs and grenades, all this while being careful with aim to ensure they don't destroy the tusks. These are animals both heavier and more durable than the dragons, that have been around and aware of humans and guns for years, and capable of killing a whole squad of troops in seconds if they get close.
A wyvern doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell if the enemy knows its coming. Those massive wings and legs are going to need hollow bones to be light enough for flight, and a single burst from an assault rifle is going to leave it crippled and unable to fly; if its still in midair when its shot, its going to come down to an abrupt and fatal landing. Its ribcage and internal organs can't be too dense either; even if it were made out of diamond-durability materials, as hard as carbon can get naturally, its enormous size and ability to fly on earth mandate paper-thin structures that a human with a spiked baseball bat could rend and tear his way through.
These things would be paper tigers, able to deal a fair amount of damage and appear big, dangerous, and threatening, but literally die to a stiff wind; the windy parts of the world, especially at higher elevations, would tear those enormous and fragile wings apart like they were made of paper mache. A potato gun would shatter its ribs or a wing membrane and lead to inevitable death.
I really never understood how one dragon could breed so quickly it could decimate the combined military forces of the combined world. Like did it understand logistics and identifying potential threats and target them before attacking the rest of the civilian populace? Or did humanity just literally go 'oh sugar honey ice tea crank out the nukes, there's one dragon in London!'
I swear it'd take a south London chav gang about an hour to catch it and start pulling it's legs off and start sticking fireworks up it's arse for kicks and giggles. Dragons would be outmatched by south London council estates.
It's strongly implied the dragons didn't tackle humanity until there were millions or billions of them around. When they realized how many of these things there really were nukes seemed the only viable option. I think it's more likely the dragons got lucky & managed to hit a major food production or fresh water source that led to a major famine/water shortage that probably made countries ignore the dragons & fight each other over dwindling resources.
@@zakuzeon7382 Except this was set in 2008 London (The capital of a world superpower). People on the surface would have seen and recognized something 'looking like a dragon' as it left the construction site. Videos and pictures would have spread around the world from local sources as well as from surveillance satellites that are always monitoring the world powers and this thing would have been tracked down from day 1 for study and analysis from the US and other powers regardless of whether or not it caused a food/water shortage in Britain.
Are dragons immune to radiation?
@@justiron2999 no
As many questions as this movie left me, it's still more believable than losing to a bunch of armored indestructible blind aliens super sensitive to sound who can't swim.
That shade tho 👀
War of The Worlds?
@@ptolemeeselenion1542 quiet place
@@joeyuzwa891 Oh lol, true! I always wondered how mankind haven't figured out the aliens's weaknesses at their very first encounters. 🤣🤣🤣
Those aliens came by asteroid, that is how they did it. Never mind that any high caliber bullet should have been able to pierce them.
I thought Van Zan jumped because he didn't have any more arrows and there was no way he was going to climb down before the dragon got him so he figured he'd go out like a boss.
Well, that and it makes for a pretty cool trailer shot. 🤣
@@natebush8217that’s exactly what I was thinking. It’s a bad ass shot. Nothing more or less.
Funny thing is that even if those "dragons" could withstand flak fire, their wings wouldnt.
That means you dont even NEED to kill them with it since the movie had shown that gravity doesnt give the faintest of shits about their armored hide. They´d just brain themselves after getting hit by some shrapnell. Which would be utterly embarrassing for the wyverns and hilarious for the gunners.
These poor bois woke up centuries too late to be a threat.
How many flak rounds do we have stationed in strategically placed areas?
@@Arkangilos ever heard of CIWS?
@@Arkangilos Well not necessarily flak rounds, but every state has a national guard and air national guard. So uh, more than you'd think.
@@minigunuser25 I know every state has Guard, but not every state has combat ready Guard.
One of my biggest problems with the movie is that the dragons supposedly feed on ash. That could *not* work! Ash is what you get after the energy has been extracted from organic matter. Cooking food is fine (it helps make it more easily digestible, for example), but burning it to ash removes all of its nutritional value.
that shit never made sense to me.... so dumb that they "eat ash" lol
Sort of, Ash is basically pure carbon
You're making a lot of assumptions about what constitutes "nutrition" from a dragons perspective.
What if they need a huge amount of carbon to continue to create new scales, huh? Didn't think if that did you, dragon science man!
But the vast majority of the carbon was lost to the atmosphere beforehand, due to the burning, as carbon dioxide, meaning it would be a very inneficient feeding strategy. Plus, living creatures need other nutrients that, again, would be lost by the combustion.
GATE shows how it's really done, with soldiers talking about how it was kinda surprising they needed to use the 20mms to bring down the wyverns and demigods staring on in incomprehension and terror as their pet dragon gets obliterated by airstrikes.
I was looking for a comment to mention Gate xD
@@saintariser8507 I got u fam
Gate ended up being a crap show IMO, but the military yeeting all the magical creatures and people they fought will never not be awesome.
@@witnessfox3509 how did it became crap?
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 all its characters were stereotypes and Gate was literally made to stroke the ego of a Pro JSDF Artist thats why in the show the other Nations get fucked with barely no effort
"Humans change the course of the evolutionary arms race between species when we decide to pick up a rock and throw it."
Man, those are some powerful words there Roanoke. I'll be sure to remember them then the whales began their revolution.
We’re too overpowered
"we may be stupid, and attack ourselves, A LOT, but it's kept us sharp"
Line absolutely floored me
Reign of Fire was freakin' awesome. I loved how all the actors/characters took their roles completely seriously; there was no self-conscious *wink wink, nudge nudge*. They all played it like they were in the Most Important Movie Ever Made. I'm not speaking to the quality of the plot/story; I'm speaking to the level of commitment.
It's one of my favorites.
I loved it as a kid, but its hammy as hell which i love tbh, but still its bad in some ways but just so entertaining in others
Yeah, brush aside the ridiculous world building, the story is otherwise solid, and the performances are what make it work. It had a concept that was built on rule of cool, and ran hard with it with no reservations.
Commit to the Bit
A thousand zombie movies and somehow the dragon invasion is to unrealistic??
One thing about the wyvern chasing the chopper: A helicopter basically has a giant lawnmower blade on top keeping it airborne and a smaller one in back. If you're going to ditch the helo anyway, why not pitch up/to the side and maybe turn the flying lizard into dragonburger? Then if the blades are wrecked, you just jump out WITHOUT the risk of becoming a snack.
Well, my personal guess is that they simply didn't want to lose their one and only chopper just to take down one of I don't know how many thousands of dragons. :
Helicopters don't work the way they do in Hollywood movies (big surprise, right? :D ). The rotor blade can hit with a lot of force - it's moving pretty fast. But it's also very blunt, and very light. It would be very unlikely to cut a human in half, much less one of those wyverns. It could still kill him, mind; but no burgers. Likely, the wyvern would be hurt and fly away. Controlling helicopters is really hard. They would have a massive disadvantage in manoeuvring against the wyverns in the movies.
And forget jumping out after a collision like that. It would do even more damage to the helicopter and its crew than to the wyvern.
@@LuaanTi I also read that the blades are light and quite brittle and can easily break if they hit something. People assume that just because they are metal they are like swords.
Yeah gl with that
An dont forget the weaponry helicopters can carry from 762 vulcan miniguns to air to air missles and rocket pods
Dragons and Wyverns are the same, mostly. You can call a wyvern a dragon, it's just a sub-species. Dragon has become an umbrella term for a lot of flying lizard-like creatures. Think of it like "All crows are birds, but not all birds are crows" or that crocodiles (wyvern) and alligators (western dragon) both belong under Crocodilia (Dragons).
That's basically how I think of it.
That's what I was going to say all wyverns are dragons but not all dragons are wyverns
My understanding is wyverns dont breath fire but dragons do but your explanation works for me aswell
It’s so fascinating how the etymology of a completely fictional creature is so hotly debated: what with Wyverns and Dragons being differentiated so avidly depending on the fictional universe, lore, etc. _Reign of Fire_ clearly calls them dragons despite them being Wyverns, yet _Monster Hunter_ makes a distinctly differentiates Wyverns from Elder Dragons - the former even having various categorizations such as Brute Wyverns, Piscene Wyverns, Flying Wyverns, etc.
_Harry Potter_ lacks this distinction entirely, as they call everything dragons despite the leg and wing count, and _How to Train Your Dragon_ does the same thing. Stormcutters like Cloundjumper have six limbs like a dragon, but four of them are wings and they only have one set of legs like a wyvern. Yet they refer to all species of “Wyverns” as dragons.
I always thought it was akin to a “All squares are rectangles but not rectangles are squares situation”. A wyvern is a sub-classification of a dragon, yet not all dragons can be classified as Wyverns. MH refers to them in this way because supposedly all Wyverns have a common ancestor, while the Elder Dragons defies this convention by having physiology outside of the norm of: “two wings and two legs”. It’s the only franchise I actively know of to make this distinction. Everything else uses them interchangeably due to the lack of phylogenetic knowledge we have on the origins of dragons/Wyverns within other media.
Science is so cool.
I know right? Look at this comment section 🤣
@@RoanokeGaming Well you come out of the gate swinging saying it's a wyvern not a dragon, when you're talking about a completely fictional creature. There's no evolutionary branch, no observable biology, nothing beyond myths and stories and media, a dragon is really whatever you want it to be
To be clear, in MH elder dragons are categorized as anything that can cause an environmental catastrophe and human settlement destruction. It's not usually based on anything physiological (they range from traditional European dragons, Egyptian insects, to giant sand whales).
@@Sevenhens don't forget tentacle monster
@@Sevenhens
I know, I started with MH3U - and Ceadeus definitely isn’t a dragon.
I was just speaking from a biological standpoint more so than a lore one, as Elders like Kushala, Teostra, Fatalis, and Safi’Jiiva are all draconic in nature - yet fall outside of the standard wyvern body plan.
It was said in an interview that the Elder Dragons were created to mirror the natural disasters they create, as they don’t look like they belong in any ecosystem in MH. They are enigmas, mirroring the monsters of fiction more so than any “real” animal in the MH universe.
The video-game adaptation of this movie was surprisingly pretty good, It had a human campaign where you take control of various types of vehicles and go on a variety of missions such as defending the castle (the one from the movie) from attack or launching a raid on dragon nests with the final mission being to take on the male dragon in a tank. Then you can play a dragon campaign where you take on a variety of human resistance forces. Both campaigns were a ton of fun.
For what system is the game for I would love to play it.
@@TheArberter I played it on GameCube back in the day
@@TheArberter I had it on the ps2.
Ps2 and I played this one to death
Wait, they made a game? I didn't know that.
About the possibility of killing those Wyvern, the show also underestimates out militaries ability of mobilizing quickly
By the time the first TV crews started documenting the dragons awakening, every air base between London and Sidney would've be on high alert with AAAs loaded and planes in the sky
Would been smarter if the background of the show was a limited WW3. Much of the productive ability was disrupted and infrastructure was so wrecked that remaining functional militaries could only assert themselves locally, regroup around resources to keep their equipment working.
…so too late than? because if you called a tv station and said send someone down we found A nest full of thousands upon thousands of dragons!!!”
they would laugh their asses off an promptly hang up.
you’re under estimating how small europe is. an expecting the military to not be confused as to wtf is going on
Don't underestimate the ability we have not taking stuff seriously, remember after seeing how the Toriea have been handling the UK the last few years it kinda feels like the military would not be allowed to mobilise yet
Oh I'm
The original story was supposed to be more about the battle between humans and wyverns. But the getting MM cost so much, there wasn't the budget to do the original script, so it had to be rewritten.
(edited for typos. Covid brain right now)
Everybody gangsta until the dragons have magical resistances to all but magical damage
Perhaps oxygen is the catalyst? The cavern where the wyvern was originally awoken looked like it might have been created by the wyvern, so perhaps it created an air-tight space which would cause it to shut down when the oxygen ran out. Then, when the world became populated again, burrowing animals which there always seem to be, would eventually breach the cavern, letting in oxygen, which could jump-start the metabolism again. Upon waking, they might be able to eat some of the surrounding walls to build up a bit of strength, but would need to get out eventually to gain access to more oxygen and richer food sources, as well as eventually reproduce.
!?!
A lot of people do not know this but it is possible for inbreeding to not cause the issues, is the species of ant over and the Philippines that is like a really dark color that is possible black, they have this because they tend to breed with in their nest instead of outside of the nest. That right there is possibly a similar genetic thing that is going on with the wyvern, now you might be asking why didn't this happen with more species? Well there's less genetic diversity from the system, after all the one Colony would keep getting bigger and bigger, also the ants would not really have much room for mutation, the genetics would be similar and there's no mixing of genes outside of the colony which would be basically identical as they are all coming from the same Queen assuming there's only one queen. Their colonies with more than one ant Queen, now perhaps this being so limiting in terms of genetic diversity because mutations are the only way you get the diversity and it does not come from mixing the genes from the father with a mother, this would mean that adapting would be difficult, and evolving would also not exactly be the most common thing for the later generations when compared to other species. However ants have been around so long that the dinosaurs probably had their meals be partially eaten by those things, they are more than 100 million years old, when you have the species that is this successful and it's also on every continent and there is one two species that is on literally every continent that's habitable and no one knows which continent is native to, something tells me that the lack of genetic diversity would actually be a good thing because there's less changes to this incredibly good system. After all look at how long sharks and crocodilians have been around, those things have good bodies, those things are very good, those things are the kind of species that stay around for longer than trees, specifically the shark, the crocodile is a kind of thing two lines out of the water and take in a creature that weighs multiple tons and can clamp down with more than 100,000 pounds of force per square inch, and answer the kind of thing to absolutely obliterate you with numbers and technically better than humans because of biomass and how well they work together. But saying you're better than a human is not very much, after all because of how close that chimpanzees are you a human brain and how Superior their physical bodies are this would make them more evolved than humans which, oh boy more monkeys better start sharpening rocks and using them on human things so that this undeserving species is no longer at the top. If it wasn't for their eighth ancestor figuring out how to make items from sharp rocks and their earlier ancestor figuring out what sharp rocks are, what they do, and how to make them, the humans wouldn't have survived, at least not easily. Humans should not have managed to thrive in such a self-sacrificing manner if these things were dropped into pretty much any continent with only what their biology allows, or the adaptations they would acquire from their very adaptable bodies in that environment.
@@assfuckerthejointpounder5834 As far as I'm aware, specific creatures don't have issues with inbreeding atleast for a short time. (Well, they do, they are different, just in a less bad way) However, some creatures does not equal all creatures.
Take this form a dude who lived in two countries with still existing old blood royal families. Incest is not wincest for the genes.
Wouldn't protect them from anaerobic bacteria.
@@colinsmith1495 ?
When I was a kid in the eighties, Omni magazine did an article where they tried to come up with a biology for dragons. For their size, they would need to use gas to make them light enough to fly, which they could then exhale with sparks from rocks in their gullet to create fire. It would be interesting to see a realistic dragon in film that is fat when flying but deflates after spewing fire.
Reminds me of cartoon dragons that puff up after inhaling but have their necks and snouts stretch out when breathing fire
80s flight of dragons cartoon lol
I remember reading a short story based on that. It was a great take on the genre, and I remember it being hilarious and very unheroic/realistic
I remember watching a video detailing what a realistic dragon would look like. It said that basically, Wyverns are the only good pick bc 4 limbs evolved from fish.
I find that stupid.
So I liked to think that dragons simply inhale flammable gasses in the air and then spew them out with a little spark thingy right at the end. Wyverns are stupid, they are just birds but scaly. Proper dragons, if following the laws of physics, could easily work. I even read a book where dragons had to regularly eat rocks to maintain their scales.
A phenomenon that can produce hydrogen gas without electrolysis:
MRE heaters use Mg dust, A little iron dust, and salt. Water is added, mixing the salt, and hastening the oxidation of the magnesium and iron. This creates heat enough to boil water plus hydrogen gas.
Problem is that it would need to take in ores, refine them. And then transport the ores in a pure form to an oxidation stomach. The ore slag would need to be regurgitated. The gas would need to be stored.
A second gizzard containing flint would be needed... and sparks van only be generated in a dry environment.
For all the problems this movie may have, it still has some of the best wyverns/dragons in any movie with them and their animations still hold up fantastically well even all this time later. I watch the movie purely for them cause I love how well done they were.
It is pretty neat that multiple cultures across the entire globe have created various "dragons" in their respective mythologies.
Before the (very recent) invention of the word "dinosaur" they were called dragons (or the cultural equivalent). The Chinese still call fossils "dragon bones" and grind them up to use in traditional medicine.
From a mythological standpoint, dragons can have 2 legs, or 4, or 4 with no wings, or six legs with 4 wings, no legs at all... Different cultures from different times have all sort of descriptions of dragons.
It is only a very very modern definition from D&D, LotR or Song of ice and fire, that defines dragons and wyverns with a specific number of legs and wings.
so you're saying that our own dragon (from mythology) has no distinct form?
because i have that exact same mentality, and i agree with you 100% if it's what you're saying.
Wyverns are a cousin to the dragons know for their stupidity 2 let’s and 2 winged arms and ruthless nature
Sounds like someone’s ex girlfriend
@@nossorcgames4733wyverns don't necessarily have to be cousins to European dragons, just a dragon of their respective mythos just like European dragons.
I always find it hilarious when monster movies try and "justify" animals being armor piercing bullet and explosive impact proof.
Why?
@@treyrex5987 Probably because humans figured out they could kill whales with harpoons hundreds of years ago. A dragon is not nearly as far beyond a whale as modern weapons are beyond a harpoon.
@@elgringosupremo Yeah but last time I checked, whales don't fly and shoot fire from their mouths but hey, that's just me.
@@treyrex5987 You’re right, whales aren’t dragons. And AA guns and missiles are not harpoons. You missed the point
@@elgringosupremo Well... since I "missed the point", then tell me wise man.... what's your damn point?
I love this movie. Unironically, whole hearted, love this movie. It is definitely a popcorn flick that you aren't supposed to think about but I still love trying to come up with explanations. I read that the earlier scrips had more details about how the dragons worked but the studio wanted them to dumb it down.
*bet the studios also wanted a laugh track included as well but could not convince the director the movie needed one*
I'll be honest with you - the studio was right. Movies over explain this shit. Compare and contrast the original godzilla to the 1998 godzilla or the 2014 version. The og godzilla opened with godzilla wrecking shit and pretty much said "something radiation something" and then focused on godzilla wreckin more shit.
One of those movies is awesome and I look forward to watching it with the kids when they get a bit older. The other two are not.
What was the explanation given?
As an armchair biologist, it just pisses me off too much to enjoy it.
@@ColonelSandersLite it's funny u say that when literally everyone preferred the newer one it has better critical and fan reviews so no your just stupid
I suppose one could say that dragons are more of a generalized term with a bunch of sub branches. Like all wyverns are dragons but not all dragons are wyverns. Kinda like how all tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises. You have the traditional 4 legged 2 wings European dragon, you have the drake which is a wingless dragon, wyverns that are dragons with two wings and two legs, then there are East Asian dragons which are more snake like in appearance and don't have wings but can usually still fly(Some might have wings but I haven't looked into these types of dragon as much), there's also another type in Europe that straight up has now legs that I think is called a wrym or something like that? I've always been really int o dragons and have a book on dragon mythology that mentions the noodly ones but I can't recall the exact names. I just know that theirs a freak ton of mythological creatures that classify as dragons that don't fit the tradional 4 legs 2 wings though those are my personal favorite type of dragon.
Yes! Thank you! I'm so sick of this pedantic "Dragon vs Wyvern" argument! Wyverns are a type of dragon! Nuff said! XD
I think the reason why they disappeared after 3 months is either A) they starved to death as they’ve already burnt everything and have begun cannibalizing on each other, B) They hunted each other to extinction/a handful because, well, they’re starving, C) they’ve gone to hibernation like they did the last time they burnt everything (dinosaurs) to the ground.
It’s the same issue with the tv series “falling sky”
They give the alien a “magic armour” eventually they take them down negating the “ magic armour” which results in the show having to retcon the tech advancement as it take away any level of threat.
Yeah that's the same as the shields in Independence Day (the movie with the aliens). Like they just magically go away with a computer virus...not accounting for the fact that energy shields are probably created by a power source and a species advanced enough to do interstellar travel would have vastly superior computers which would undoubtedly be impossible for our simple CPU's to even penetrate. But if it was logical then they wouldn't have any reason to send their ships into the atmosphere when they could have just bombed earth from space.
i really loved that show, it tackled issues you dont think about but also dumbed stuff down ie we make bullets out of their armor which is simple compared to say independence day, people gone crazy, logistics, etc
@@jrunner5k 100% the divide and conquer of the Aliens and survivors alike. The slow encroachment and erosion of morals of the “normal” rules of life and social structures , one by one falling by the way side with the struggle to maintain health and daily survival.
The massive cast of folk showing the best and worst of what humanity and aliens have to offer.
What made me quit immediately was I think season 2 where protag dad just no-scope casually shoots a alien fighter with a rpg.
@@S_047 well on top of that the premise that the entire worlds military armed forces and conscripted forces didn’t seem to do anything to the aliens then…ooh you can do this and take them down. Now why didn’t we think that before lol. Always the problem with these type of shows they grasp the wider narrative but allow the minutiae to slip through, end result being that the plot falls to bits.
I remember my anthropology professor once said that there was a theory for why all human groups have a dragon story, and why they all share certain characteristics.
Apparently, it’s the result of ancient proto-human monkey brains expediting predator response by combining the triggers for our three greatest threats as tree dwellers. Snakes, big cats, and birds of prey á la harpy eagles. Almost every dragon, eastern and western, has shared characteristics of these three; scales and a serpentine form, wings and/or flight, and a cat-like face or body plan. So our ancient monkey brain made a threat response for a snake/cat/eagle and as our brain evolved and progressed this old threat was brought into the fore and our better brain did it’s best to figure out what we were supposed to be afraid of, it used its imagination to build a dragon and went “yeah, that’s a big dangerous thing, let’s be careful!”
Oh wow! I was wondering about that! Thanks for sharing!
And take into account that glasses are a pretty current invention in the timeline, in Homo sapiens have notoriously crappy eyes.
So some of them could have been just a half blind guy who didn't know what the hell he was seeing
It even makes sense as to why they breathe fire. Fire, while something we harnessed, is a force of nature that when it runs rampant is something truly terrifying.
there was also a African croc species that preyed on hominids for 41 million year
Instilling an instinctual fear of all those créatures combined, the Strongest of all créature, one who Can even wield fire as a weapon
That…. Actually makes a lot of sense
"They're wyverns, not dragons" is about as useful as saying, "It's not a dog, it's a border collie"
I'd argue it's more like "it's not a dog it's a coyote"
YES! im sick of this discussion from the elder scrolls community. Plus if a setting says that something is a dragon then thats a dragon in that setting
Yeah he really said dragons have 4 legs and 2 wings after literally showing an Asian dragon a minute before
It’s actually quite a huge deal if you’re trying a more realistic take on biology. Wyvern/Oriental dragons having four limbs and Dragons having 6 means they would have to evolve from completely different ancestors, like a completely different species of fish that decides to go on land different.
@@EstellammaSS no, not at all.
In biology, unrelated organisms get named the same all the time.
Just look at giant panda vs red panda for example.
Dragon is hardly a scientific name.
Ok so I have a theory regarding the wyverns: I highly doubt that the bull in the film is millions of years old, this would likely be one in a long line of bulls that were born, and died while sealed away from the surface, fertilizing eggs during this time (they'd have to because to get the kind of edge they had over humanity would require hundreds of thousands at minimum and millions at maximum and even then they'd have to be incredibly fast moving to take the country before it has proper time to respond, the rest of the world it seems like Theis was a panicked response since nukes and entire arsenals were used up rapidly causing the world to fall, it's the best I can come up with as to why the wyverns win). And I can see the species having a biological response to the male dying, where either an egg sex changes to male or an already existing female changes sex to be the new male. This is probably likely as I highly doubt the wyverns we see are the only colony to ever exist in the films reality, likely there were other bulls and their colonies out there, it just so happens this one is either the only colony left that wiped out the others due to territory or mating reasons OR there are other colonies still in hibernation.
I say this as my theory because the end of the film suggests that there have been little to no sightings since the death of the bull, this could be for a few reasons: 1. They're going back into a suicidal hibernation without a bull (this doesn't make sense), 2. They've cannibalized eachother and there's barely anything left or none at all (you'd think that'd be reported on by now) and most likely 3. There has been either the birth of a new bull and the colony is protecting it until it matures somewhere OR a female has changed sex and is currently building numbers again and the humans are living on borrowed time. Regardless I believe that humanity is screwed at the end.
And if they ever start biomeineralizing graphene like that one guys genetically engineered yeast, then humanity is screwed because that's the most durable material and like 10 layers is enough to make you Bulletproof. If it's equally thing to Saran Wrap then an elephant balancing on a pencil that doesn't collapse would be what is required to break it or is that how much it will handle before it is destroyed.
@@assfuckerthejointpounder5834
"Why are Wyverns tough enough to survive 50 caliber rounds?"
"Nanomachines, son."
"Nanomachines? From where?"
"Ancient Aliens!"
In the game the bulls are just the leaders of the different flocks
my theory is the females have move to another flocks that still have a bull creating a 'clear' area for humans to live
The only way these wyverns could have really threatened humanity, IMO, would be if they somehow produced natural EMP fields, maybe as a side effect of their ability to produce flame (like they produce outright plasma that they direct with magnetic field generating organs that produce EMPs by happy accident or as a means of communication between wyverns or something).
emp's?
most military tech is emp hardened.
you wont shut a tank down with less than a nuclear explosion
@@xloltimex38 forgive my ignorance but how hardened was it when the movie set the apocalypse? My gut says there's more/better shielding now then there was...
@@Avigorus I couldn't tell you what DARPA's got behind closed doors, but I dont think anything coming out in the last 14 years magically negates EMP. If anything, we've become *more* reliant on fiddly electronics like computers and GPSs. Of course, yes, EMP has been a known problem and you can assume anything critical is going to be hardened against it going back well before this movie was made, so your tanks are still going to run and your helicopters are still going to fly.
@@shatara42 Yeah that sounds about right; in such a hypothetical from what little I know myself; that said, if one presumes such an ability could mess with radar somehow (white noise/overloads of some sort?), that might let them at least last more than a week lol
@@Avigorus a lot of our military tech like tanks and planes were made in the 80's and 90's. I'm sure they've received upgrades since then to protect against emp better. also emp, as far as I'm aware, just damages electronics because it induces a large current and that can damage fuses, relays, and circuit boards and overheat and fry wires. you counteract this by having loads in the circuit that disipate a lot of the heat from the current, but they can only do so much and are only going to be effective up to a certain strength of emp, at some point the induced current will just be too big to disipate and even then the load can only do some much and you cant have loads on literally every circuit because space and weight isn't free and circuits don't work like magic. that being said no biological organism is gonna be able to produce an emp burst with enough energy to cause serious damage military vehicles unless it fuses its own atoms turning itself into a nuclear bomb
Small correction: Amphitheres and Wyverns are still Dragons, they're just particular sub-species. Four legs plus wings is best, but I'm biased because that's what I've got. Mostly they're just called "Western Dragons" but different fictions assign different names to other dragon types.
also because the classifications are a very modern thing. dragon is basically big probably magical or demonic in origin monster with some lizardlike qualities. myths describe snake as dragons and even turtles can be dragons in the east. being pedantic about wyvern and dragon is just pointless really.
I always have to cringe a bit whenever I see people acting super smart because they know that an European Dragon has four legs and a Wyvern two. I heccin remember people doing this 20 years ago already lmao
Despite the fact that there isn't any consistency throughout history. There are European countries who call their Wyverns on their crests "dragons", and a Lindwurm is a dragon too. We should just summarize all of them as dragons for a lack of a better word that doesn't exist, while "four legs, wings, breaths fire" is a very specific "European Dragon"
@@bighatastrea Yeah, they're all types of dragons even if they are "wyverns," which is the point of my comment for the video maker. Didn't want to take it to a rude place, though.
@@Fourger14 Haha sorry, not talking about you, I just saw it in many other places and the little part about the Wyvern/Dragon discussion in the video gave me the same vibes so I just felt like adressing out out of context
I mean the simple answer to this is
"None of these things exist so you can call them whatever you want."
I kinda like that last bit of wisdom "we maybe stupid and we might attack ourselves , but it's kept us sharp"
Even with creatures that have "armor" like the Quite Place, it'd still be no problem. If they had truly impenetrable armor, it would have to be so dense that they wouldn't be able to move due to the weight.... We have rifle rounds that can go through inches of steel. A 20mm would cut these things in half with ease.
The meat under the armor can be taken out by a regular bullet. That means that concussion can destroy them.
It been smarter if the Quiet Place creatures could phase through matter, which would allow them to hide underground. Hence their reliance on sound and sensibility to a certain frequency. This would leave them vulnerable to being incinerated by heat tho. Also, Graboids would be their natural predators with a lesser ability to phase through solid matter. )
I would love to see shoulder mount 20mm fun in a movie, why hasn't hollywood caught onto that? they do have access to YT watermelon videos after all.
Dragons are magical beings so laws of physics wouldnt really apply as strictly. I mean if you got a dragon that can use magic, that would be an extremely difficult dragon to kill even with current tech.
In some tales, dragons are extremely smart, we talking human level or higher smarts. Couple that with access to magic and likely we gonna have to bring out the nukes soon.
@@alispeed5095 yeah but this movie made dragons be as realistic as possible so they're basically wild animals.
C-RAM go BRRRRRRRRRRT
"we might be stupid and we might attack ourselves a lot of the time but it has kept us sharp" Great line! Go Humans!
Usually wyverns and dragons should be treated like magical creatures in movies or stories, cause if they're treated like just natural giant lizard it would lead to lots of plotholes. The depiction that I like most is when they're treated like magical beings that have a magical breath and scales that can resist bullets or modern weaponry that doesnt had magic in it.
One of the easier way to make magical creatures overpower modern weaponry in a story is the way some animes like the Fate series did it. For example the Nemean Lion as a magical beast in fate has the characteristic to reject human civilization so its skin acts as an armor that prevents any tools created by humanity from piercing its flesh and Heracles could only fight it barehand.
Monster Hunter kinda does this, it treats the monsters like normal animals and not bloodthirsty magical beings but it does it in a way that just doesn't feel boring
The actual difference between wyverns and dragons is that one breathes fire the other is venomous.
Thank you!!! Finally someone with a brain!
@@andrewtolstov5168 hate to get all needy but chromatic green dragons.
@maxsemeniuk3521 true but your average wyvern has a venomous stinger on its tail similar to a scorpion.
@erikwilliams1562 I actually forgot about that also tiamat/takhsis do have barbed stingers on thier tails I think I know takhisis does.
@maxsemeniuk3521 man we're nerding out harder than normal on this channel 😅
So interesting story that made me mad about this movie. Years ago when i was still a teenager i made a concept book called “Humans vs Dragons” (i know cheesy name like i said it was just concept work) but my book was about how humans of the modern era would fight the dragons. I thought about going back to the book and finishing it and fleshing it out a bit, and literally like 2-3 days later this movie came out, and i was like friiiiiiick…..now i feel like i cant finish my book because who would honestly believe i made the concept years before this movie came out? Sigh, makes me upset.
Zombie movies, enough said. You can do it!
I say go for it! There is pretty much no new concept anymore, but that doesn't mean you can't continue with your own ideas based around the concept and create your own flavor within it!
There's an anime called Gate. Plot is kind of similar but with a fantasy world (dragons, medieval knights etc) vs a modern world such as ours. Sure its cool seeing a knight fly atop a dragon but its even cooler seeing it get blown up by a jet zipping by lol.
This is just me but I would say just do it anyway, I know I would enjoy something like that! And I'm pretty sure others would too... especially if you make it more believable than this movie
@@MeatPlanet *ride the valkyrie playing and getting louder*
I absolutely love how you have Skyrim music playing in the background! Anyways I hope you cover the lizards from Aberration, it's a very underrated film.
I can check it out!
I was hunting for this comment
@@michaelnuss372 have you ever seen Aberration?
there was a game version of this, where half of it you plays as the dragons, and the humans do fight back hard, but the dragons seem to have rather advanced strategy and tactics.
The CGI in this movie is fantastic and topnotch. Still holds up very well today. Very well written storyline too.
This was something that was talked about in the Shadowrun RPG. When magic came back to the world, dragons came back too. The though they could come back and be on the same shit, but they learned that a squad of Apache helicopters with sidewinder missiles could take one down fairly easily.
It would have to be Stingers. The Apache has no abiltiy to carry Sidewinders
@@ShelbyWithAShelby Uhhhh, they can, but they don't because MANPADS are more effective
@@bokaxet1698 so it can. However, due to the design of a Sidewinder, they are not suited for use on a helicopter. I wouldn't necessarily call a MANPADS more effective than a Sidewinder, outside of a few specific scenarios, such as a helicopter though.
@@ShelbyWithAShelby the AH-1Z can carry AIM-9M sidewinders. The reason the cobra has the ability to mount anti air weapons is that the marines are a frontline first response force so they may not have as much air cover from the air force whereas the army doesn’t have that problem
@@Fatallydisorganized the Marines have their own fighters, an AIM-9 from a helicopter isn't going to be nearly as effective as it doesn't have a continuous burn rocket motor like the Stinger does, so it won't be able to reach the same speeds as if it were launched by a fighter. It will only be really useful against helicopters and slow moving aircraft. While the AH-1Z CAN carry the AIM-9, they very rarely ever would.
Hell, every WW2 fighter squad with their 20 or 30mm autocannons would absolutely wreck any dragon. Unless their armour is magic or something.
And for those wondering, yes, dragons would absolutely show up even on cold war era air surveillance radars. Bird swarms and large single birds show up too, and yearly swarm movements for example are routinely recorded by military air surveillance and transmitted to interested civil organisations.
Initially it would be difficult to identify that strange contact on the radar, but adapt the filtering algorithm, and you're set.
If you are talking reign of fire only then yes they get destroyed
If you are talking fiction In general then you haven't seen a lot of dragons
Random dragons from fairy tail sneeze Earths collective military away
Super shenron from dragon Ball would quite literally accidentally sneeze our galaxy away
I can give more examples of fictional dragons that wipe the floor with earth
@@victormadu-chikwendu4308 Most of the ones from Puzzle & Dragons or YuGiOh, or even Monster Hunter are so OP as fuck
@@victormadu-chikwendu4308 They are magical creatures in a fantasy setting so of course they reign supreme. Anchoring them down to reality with feasible rules to biology just makes them a temporary nuisance before they learn to stay away from us or face extinction.
@@DoktorJammified no it won't
Even if we apply real life logic and biology
Most dragons will still eradicate the entire human race in minutes
For example the dragons from fairy tale even if you assume they can be hurt by nukes and bombs
Random dragons from fairy tale are more than capable of destroying planets in thier entirety
@@victormadu-chikwendu4308 EVERYTHING in DBZ is world-endingly OP, *compared to real life.* That's why that show's so boring. =9[.]9=
There is a Japanese anime that portrays this story beautifully. The premise is that inter-dimensional portals opened, and Japan was attacked by a fantasy army. The whole fucking lot of it. Knights, Warriors, Dragons, even sorcerors and wizards. They came out of that portal in full gung ho mode to conquer Earth. So the Japanese military showed up.
Wizards got headshotted by snipers the moment they began casting spells and the arcane glow appeared around them. Knights, Warriors, with magical weapons and enchanted armour just got mowed down by standard infantry rifles. Dragon scales couldn't be pierced by bullets...so they simply got shot down by Anti Air Artillery, fighter jets and attack helicopters. It's a hilarious anime, I just don't remember the name :(
Gate. XD
Yeah I watched some of it, but there was just like so much fanservince that it kinda got cringe. Which is a shame, the battle scenes were so cool. It's called Gate
That was the technological difference among human evolution. Even the Imperial Trolls prove to be a target for concentrated fire.
Later when they do face off the dragon the F-100's get dunked on, almost literally. The manga and LN do depict tech specs of draghon and dragon skin from the sample (arm) they obtained to a detail. Its hard! .50cal just ticle the thing for funzies. When Itami faces off with minotaur (almost) on his own, he needs to lure it into a trap to even the chances.
There is difference in fighting bandits and roman's with lesser wiverns vs fighting a mithical creature. Gate elevates that information on many occasions.
Gate?
That sounds completely one sided and dumb
I remember doing a big project in college where we had to construct a phylogenetic tree of a fictional group of animals and place them accurately in the real-life tree of life (obviously they dont actually fit but the purposenof the excercise is to understand all the concepts behind phylogeny, taxonomy, and evolution).
Based on every source i could get my hands on that came to over 100 different examples, dragons if real would have began as a small wyrm template branching from a basal squamate reptilian between 240 and 220 million years ago, long before a pure division between snakes and other reptile branches but definitely after the fork between squamata and rhyncocephalia.
I am fairly certain Wywrens are considered a subtype of dragons, and the distinction is only in English heraldry, specifically.
yeah the limbs thing makes no sense. Chinese dragons don't have WINGS they're still called dragons. Why would 2 leg 2 win dragons not be dragons?
And since when do wyverns spit fire? If it spits fire it's a dragon.
@@davidbodor1762 Eastern “dragons” aren’t really dragons. We call them dragons in English because they kinda vaguely resemble them and we didn’t have another word for them, but they are considered different mythical creatures to dragons (and have different names) in China/Japan/etc.
@@Aethid They are fire breathing lizards. Tthey're dragons.
Eastern dragons don’t spit fire though
They share the same origin point, but split over time
I'd like to think that Wyverns do count as dragons because of how some wyvern-looking creatures in medieval art were confirmed to be dragons (st. george's dragon especially), and how dragons are extremely broad and diverse across different cultures to the point that there's nothing that really defines what a dragon is. A dragon could be a giant multi-headed serpent, a 4-legged and winged saurian, a bird-like creature with feathers, a fish-like sea or lake monster, even a human-like character.
I have the same thinking about wyverns being a kind of dragon. There are also drakes, wyrms and lindwyrms, amphipteres, eastern dragons, hydras and other multiheaded dragons, sea dragons and serpents, the list goes on.
If it breathes fire, it's a dragon. It's not about the limb arrangement at all, that's a modern fallacy; Wyverns in lore were venomous winged serpents.
@@tessabakker662 but chinese dragon doesn't breathe fire, instead they are more known to be summoning rain
The irony is that the wyvern is the more realistic dragon than the usual European depiction of the dragon that the die-hards insist to be the true dragon.
This is because mother nature don't like to give extra limbs especially to large organisms. This is why we don't see 6 limbed animals even on large ones that we think would benefit the most from 6 limbs. Even dinosaurs only have four limbs.
European dragon isn't realistic. Their front legs would just increase their weight and hinder their capability to fly.
@@tessabakker662 Fire breathing is not something that readily defines a dragon because several other confirmed dragons did not breath fire. It is definitely a trope seen in western dragons, but even then there were some in european traditions that breathed poison (Fafnir), water (Gargouille), or nothing at all (Tarasque and Peluda).The bottom line is there's nothing that defines what a dragon is, they can be anything whether it is how they look, what they can do, how they behave, etc.
I reckon it makes more sense for the wyverns to be underground eating the rocks and minerals. When they wake up and go to the surface it could be more of a breeding season with the act of eating everything being a by-product of them breeding then returning to the underground. This is why the male wasn't to bothered about the humans until they invaded his territory.
This is also why you never see a juvenile in the film as it is only the mature animals that are actively on the surface. The eggs within the animals is probably produced from females storing the dodo liquid like many reptiles do.
How'd they breath down in that cave with no fresh air for so long?
Frankly, any Earth-based monsterverse works way better with either an extra dimension or by leaning on the dumb-but-actual Hollow Earth conspiracy.
The Dragons would be eating and breathing in Hollow Earth, then.
King Kong got that right.
@@Stop_Gooning They eat ash. _Clearly_ their metabolism isn't based on using oxygen to oxidise sugars and fats, or at the very least, the reason they're scorching the earth has to do with micro-nutrients, not calories.
Also, we don't know anything about that cavern, just that someone broke into it while mining. That doesn't mean that was the only opening. We know _very_ little about the wyverns and where they came from. All we know is that moment was when humans became aware of them. We don't know how many there were, how they breed, what they eat or breathe, where they live... The movie doesn't even try to answer these, because the humans in-universe _also_ don't know.
Weirdly enough, it seems that a lot of the commenters on the video seem to be very confident about all of those things. I didn't know there were so many Golden Tickets around today :D
@@LuaanTi things that are unknown or unexplained can safely be assumed to be the same as the real world because before the beginning of the movie it _basically was_ the real world.
@@Stop_Gooning Of course. Except for the actual dragons, you know. Our metabolic pathway _isn't_ the only one possible, and is far, far from the only one being actively used on this planet right now.
It's fair enough to say their hide cannot be impossibly strong. But it's absolutely clear that a human-like metabolism simply wouldn't work at all. It's not something you can ignore - it's crucial to the whole movie even.
The word "dinosaur" is a very recent invention. Before that, everyone just called them dragons.
50% of the comments: yes, rockets, missiles, jets, and bullets should definitely be effective against the wyvern.
Other 50%: A wyvern is technically still a dragon. True dragons are the ones with 4 legs plus 2 wings.
Nothing technically about it
Historically, the two were used interchangeably outside of coats of arms, and even in that, they were considered a style of dragon
Even D&D, the source of this mess, labels them “lesser” dragons
Because of just how varied dragons are across history and cultures, this argument about wyverns being dragons or not is stupid, because there are far, FAR less “true dragon” like creatures that still get labeled as dragons, and this argument only ever exists for wyverns
Wyverns are A TYPE of dragon just like the eastern and European kinds are types of dragons
@@dragonriderabens9761 mh, i don't really consider wyvern as "types" dragons, cause while the Chinese and Japanese dragons are still called dragons the wyverns have in fact a different name so this is just a technicality but still, i don't think they can be considered dragons. I think that this argument depends a lot on how you classify dragons. If you use the mythological nomenclature yeah any big reptile with or without wings can be considered a dragon, so lindwurms, wyverns, cockatrices, quezacoactl, hydras and so on can all be considered dragons. Even with this type of classification i think that basilisks and Sea serpents are just snakes, mainly cause the basilisk is the "king of serpents" not the king of dragons, and the Sea serpents is well a sea serpent. However, as medieval heraldry was pretty accurate on the various crests and stuff, i think that if you use that type of classification than dragons are dragons and lindwurms are lindwurms and wyverns are wyverns and so on. So yeah it all comes down to the type of classification you use. Also, this is if we are talking about mythological dragons and dragons in heraldry. If we are talking about dragons is a specific universe than it's up to the author to decide whether wyverns are dragons or not. For example in dark souls it's specifically said that wyverns are not real dragons, while in DND wyverns are just a different type of dragons
@@bananaknight8575 Wyverns aren't a type of dragon because they have a different name...so, is every human being its own species because they have different names?
@@bananaknight8575 I’m glad you have enough sense to admit that the author has full discretion on if a wyvern qualifies as a dragon or not
That’s the #1 reason I would give flak on it, is people will try to shove their own personal views on the matter (which is what Roanoke and several others in the comments section are doing)
Everyone is welcome to their own view, but don’t try to enforce it on others
If someone ties to enforce it on others, I’m going with the mythological view, because that’s what dragons are at the end: a myth
If it’s YOUR work the you’re enforcing, that’s one thing.
Your world, your rules. You can make dragons have 5 heads, 7 tails, 27 wings , 18 legs and be a hyper specific shade of purple, and anything else is not a dragon in your world and that’d be fine
But in anyone else’s world, you got no right to enforce your personal views
@@bananaknight8575 Poor example, as an Eastern Dragon is originally called a Loong, Long, or Lung.
Great video, except for one thing that I am going to argue: dragon or wyvern. First thing is that the term dragon encompasses a lot of different creatures of different body types. There include dragons with no limbs (snakes big enough to make titanoboa look a garter snake), dragons with two front legs (lindworms), dragons with feathered wings and bodies (Quetzalcoatl and the Piasa bird), dragons that are amalgamations of different animals (see the original myth of the Tarrasque), dragons that have four legs and no wings (Chinese lung or similar Far Eastern dragons), and, yes, dragons that have two legs and two wings (wyverns). Second, my understanding, possibly misjudged due to the excruciatingly vast array of dragon lore in and out of ancient mythology, is that the only reason a person would call a dragon a wyvern, apart from body type, is if the beast does NOT breathe fire. Either way, I recommend Overly Sarcastic Productions' video on dragons.
29:29 If an allosaurus was running and fell to the ground, the force of the collision would kill its brain on impact. A missile detonating in one of these wyvern's ears WOULD ring its bell, knocking it unconscious or at least rendering its balance incapable of keeping it in the air, making it crash to the ground and die on impact, EVEN IF the missile didn't kill it on detonation. Tow missiles are VERY accurate and mobile, and an apache helicopter can house over a dozen, and guide them to target from nearly a mile out. Heck, that's the U.S. doctrine for helucopter missile combat, and those dragons can only see so far and dodge so fast. Crushed ribs and heavy internal bleeding on center of mass impact IF the scales could absorb, Wing non-functionality on wing impact due to bone breaks or total membrane oblitteration, once again depending if the scales could absorb, leading to skyfall which equals death on ground impact. Same with headshots as detailed above. No matter how you slice it, air combat versus these things would be a pick-em-off from afar ordeal at WORST.
Your thinking of the AGM114 hellfire and that's an anti tank guided missile, the TOWs FCS was not put in the apache but the older version of the AH-1 had it (these mostly have been updated to use the 114), both are ATGMs but have limited use against slow low flying or hovering helicopters so it wouldn't be a stretch to bag a dragon with one
@@josephmontanaro2350 Yeah, basically any helicopter-mounted laser-guided antitank missile could oneshot a dragon
1.- the fact that I didn't hear about this movie starring McConaughey, Bale and Butler is wild to me
2.- man, WW2 era airplanes are probably enough to rip these wyverns to shred.
You expressed what I thought when I watched that movie.
If the dragons/wyvern are strong and fast enough to hunt down jets, withstand bullets and avoid air to air missiles, you won't kill them with some maniacs jumping out of a helicopter or an axe.
So logic is failing, maybe they should have used magic, anti wyvern poison, silver arrows or a biological weapon.
You could actually limit how far back they could have evolved by their bone structures too.
You are right about humans - we scare the shit out of any creature that has ever existed on this planet.
To be fair, even advanced aliens would think twice about colonising our planet - because we do this thing called Pyrrhic victories.
Ah yes, as we did with the Warthanes
We taught the galaxy the meaning of the term
I realize that's random, but I'm hoping you know the title to that short story because I would enjoy reading it again
but not the honey badger!
imagine if that could fly T_T
Yep if we lose we will make sure they don't win
Advanced Aliens would be as afraid of us as Rússia was of Geórgia or USA was afraid of Iraq.
IF they got tech to get here, it's already over dude, don't be Delusional.
It's not "War of Worlds" they won't get here and die from Small Pox, neither "Independence Day" we won't hack a shit... Our better chance is to help their kids with a flying bike and pray they won't want revenge for what the gov did against their kids, because we are doomed otherwise.
@@jaymthesn5981 well that's not really true. It's a rather euro-centric view of colonisation. A modern euro-centric phenomenon not borne out by our extended history. Many examples exist of sea faring people who failed to destroy civilisations that did not have that technology.
The Vikings probably the most recent example. The Chinese and Koreans also.
Being able to travel across a distance doesn't mean you will be successful in other endeavours.
Yeah, dragons are cool and all... but these mach 7 surface to air missles are a bit cooler
not against smaug because the only that could harm him is a certain type of ero that's imbued with magic and since he would be in this world we don't got those arrows and rockets would probably just bounch of smaug.
@@lights_utopia1130 Idk bro, an anti bunker missile would probably really screw him up. Magic or not.
Or 30mm Auto-cannons.
@@lights_utopia1130 of course, they dindt have technology or missiles, he would be turned to a pile o flesh in seconds today lol, and font forget his insides would be turned to soap scales or not.
@@lights_utopia1130 if magic was available in the past, and then dragons reappeared in the present this would imply that the technology of magic has been around. In this instance in a modern setting there's really no indication why it is humanity wouldn't have access to said magic, and have incorporated into their projectiles. so in the instance smog is actually real and somehow survived to a modern day comparable to what we currently have there's probably good odds he's going to get laid waste to buy magically imbued bullets and or missiles. 🤷🏻♂️ So na in any setting where civilization is allowed to develop to an incredibly advanced state dragons don't stand a chance.
I was so into this movie after I saw the trailer, I had crazy dreams about Dragons until it came out. I need a part two.
If they’re Dragons on this movie’s lore, they are dragons. Also Wyverns are a type of dragon. It’s like saying “that’s not a dog, it’s a German Shepard.”
Thank you so much! You're the first person I've ever seen correct this that isn't myself
IKR
@@wsr889 really? The comment section is packed with these corrections.
@@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480 Yeah I noticed. But I've watched a similar video where the guy talking really explains everytime he hes a dragon that it not a dragon its a wyvern and I've had some arguments with people about it and it just pisses me of x)
No lol. A wyvern has a different anatomy, it has its arms much like a bat, whereas a dragon, has wings, legs & arms. Thanks!
Wyverns, drakes, wyrms, and sea serpents are all draconic and can thus be called dragons (DnD calls them "Lesser Dragons"), but true dragons are as you describe, two forelimbs, two hindlimbs, and two dorsal limbs that terminate in wing membranes.
Actually you call everything you mentioned serpents.
Thats the creature "class" they all belong to
An eastern interpretation of a dragon is completely different from western European
the word "dragon" comes from the Greek term "drakon", meaning "huge serpent".
it doesn't matter which one it is. it's still a dragon. wyvern, wyrm, knucker (which is Old English for "water monster", btw)... just another name for the same beast.
and it does not have a distinct appearance; look at its depictions in medieval artwork.
i may like the DnD logic, but i'm sick of it; seeing it nearly everywhere i look.
and if dragons existed, they wouldn't look how we imagined them.
i recommend the "history of dragons" from Fortress of Lugh.
They lack the Poison tailof a wyvern.
@@jacktheomnithere2127 I agree with you on the overuse of DnD rules in other media, evolutionarily dragons would likely be saurian and, like we've learned of dinosaurs, they would probably be feathered and birdlike. If we were to be technical, birds are modern avian dinosaurs, which means they're part lizard, which means they are true to life wyverns.
Okay, one minor disagreement. Dragon is a general category of creatures. The term True Dragon is used for four legs and a set of wings. Wyvern is a dragon but no forelegs. Example, a Basilisk is a Dragon class. It has no wings but four legs
Love your videos Roanoke, keep it up bro
The distinction is completely meaningless anyways, since dragons don't exist and any sense of "proper classification" is just some old setting lore that a bunch of nerds absorbed and try to enforce that lore on every other setting because that's what they learned.
Being a "well, acksually it's a wyvern" pedant about something that's literal fantasy is hilarious. There's no phyllogenetic tree that includes real life 6-limbed dragons for people to actually have any leg to stand on with.
@@andrewcapra7153 Classifying fictional creatures into classes similar to nonfictional creatures is fun as hell, okay?
Don't forget the Wyrm, which has neither wings nor legs, but is still a dragon.
@@andrewcapra7153 so? This is literally a channel about apply actual scientific logic to fictional scenarios. What OP is suggesting is taxonomy of draconians, which guess what, is scientific logic applied to fictional scenarios.
@@boneman9751 it's not scientific logic though, it's arbitrary logic, with lines drawn haphazardly according to whatever fantasy lore the videomaker personally prefers. In Monster Hunter, which also has pseudo-scientific classifications for its various beasts, only Flying Wyverns match the "two wings, two legs" criteria from the video. Brute Wyverns can have no wings, and Piscene Wyvens can have only one set of legs, with no other set of limbs.
Wouldn't it be equally absurd if someone came into the comments to insist that Roanoke was an idiot for calling Komodos a type of real life dragon, when they're acksully Fanged Wyverns, as you can tell by the four legs and belly low to the ground when they move?
Wyverns Exist:
A MC-130J Armed with Rapid Dragon Munition:
And I took that Personally
The first week, maybe two, the wyverns would destroy everything in front of them while the military tries to figure out what the hell is happening. Once the world's military accepts that dragons are real and need to be killed they would be hunted down pretty quickly. Assuming that the wyverns disperse quickly it might take a year or so to hunt them all down and they would cause all kinds of problems in that time but we would survive and kick their but.
No, they wouldn't even do that, in some regions of the world where people aren't well armed maybe, but in places where rifles are easy to get the dragons would be killed ridiculously quickly, because the thing about flight is that it's super resource intensive, so combined with rapid growth and breeding that means they'd have to eat a whole lot, which people with small arms might not be able to easily kill a fully grown dragon, but youngins would be easy prey
lol weeks? that thing came out in the middle of London, it would be burning buildings for about 30 minutes before they scramble jets and shred it in half with 25mm gatling guns, that those things would be dead within an hour, every one of them that surfaced, and if they try to run they'd get scanned by radar and hunted down. wouldn't take a week or two for the military to make a decision when they are actively flying over and burning a major city like london
lol no, more advanced nations would instantly locate large flying objects and once found hostile they would be instantly destroyed
@@PussNBootos "in some regions of the world" he's talking about poorer or less armed nations not America or China
Cruise missiles would ruin their day
“Cows and cats look really weird in medieval paintings” -proceeds to show a drawn cow that looks 100 times better than anything I could draw even though I’ve seen thousands of cows lol
Edit: also a wyvern is a type of dragon
I've heard others say before not all dragons are Wyverns but all Wyverns are dragons if that makes any sense.
A wyvern is a sub-class of dragon, yes; but calling a wyvern a dragon is like calling a dog a wolf. They're related but still distinct, with one clearly outclassing the other.
You're right. Dragon is a broad term that covers a lot of creatures, even in the most nerdy modern chronicles (D&D). It's more akin to a classification than a specific kind of creature.
@@fionladfinley281 Well i think its best to think like .. we have Dogs thats the common term we use for all of them, from those shaky rats to bear hunting giants xD
@@JustAnArrogantAlien They literally don't exist. You can call them whatever you want if it suits the story.
So I can imagine a scenario where the fast breeding guard the male eating ash lifestyle works. The Wyverns are a prey animal. It'd be like an army and colony that terraforms and hunt limited areas, but get eaten/killed I droves most of the time. They eat ash to recycle nutrients, either in volcanic regions or simply where they opt to nest.
What would eat these things you ask? How about honest to God Dragons, cartilage rather than bones but armor and muscles that'd make a Saltwater Croc regret waking up. And other such creatures that maybe didn't fossilize. Think of the Monster Hunter world, where even the top predators are always at risk of being predated themselves, and thus have huge crazy defenses.
That would be pretty interesting. The dragons are veritable tanks and are pretty much immune to the fire and claws and too heavy for the wyverns to lift. Also a fight scene of several massive dragons slowly climbing up a volcano with dozens of wyverns buzzing around trying to slow the dragons down. Almost like a predator attacking an ant hill
@@RapTapTap69
YES, THIS
And where are the dragons now? Well, they didn't have a hibernation cycle cause they had plenty of dinosaurs to eat. They all went extinct, the Wyverns survived cause of their hibernation. I still can't explain the millions of years thing but eh.
Nothing hypes me up more for humanity than Roanoke. Humanity #1, baby!!!
Unless you’re playing D&D, “dragon” is more a word like “fairy” or “demon” than any specific taxonomic term splittin’ wyverns from drakes, lungs, linorms, etc. Wyverns are dragons like pixies are fairies.
Edit: People keep on misreadin’ or misunderstandin’ me point, so have a fun video that’d a far more entertainin’ explanation than some comments. Best ta know what yer debatin’ at the very least:
ua-cam.com/video/3eXAPwjASEQ/v-deo.html
Pixies are Fairies???
*NO*
@@maylabrown4584 you’re right… I’ve been a fool. A fool!
Even if you're playing D&D, there is all sorts of lore about dragons with less than four feet. Some also don't have wings.
@@PaulGuy
d&d didnt invent those terms tho.
they simply picked them up from medieval literature.
@@uteriel282 No one is saying they invented them
Only that it is the source of modern definitions
Humans are vindictive at a level no other species has ever been, yes some animals like Tigers have gotten revenge on the person that hurt them, but humans will hunt down an entire species to extinction if we feel it is a threat or if we get board or feel it has really pretty feathers, RIP Dodo's.
Dodos didn't go extinct because of vindictiveness
.
@@randybobandy9828 your right, that's why I said "or feel it has really pretty feathers" it was sarcasm.
I should point out that this is a very recent phenomena born out of luxury and decadence.
Ancient hunter gatherers did not do this because they needed to participate in the ecosystem and so had a vested interest in keeping said ecosystem healthy. Ancient tribal religion (and even the religions of much more modern hunter gatherers, yes they still exist) stigmatized hunting too heavily because it oFfEnDeD tHe GoDs but what this really meant was "don't overhunt an area so that you can still hunt later." The phenomenon of Humanity wiping out entire species is born of the decadence of humankind basically removing itself from the ecosystem and existing semi-independently of it, leading us to believe we don't need to care about nature anymore.
@@moritamikamikara3879
Bro, hunter gatherers literally committed genocide against the Neanderthals and drove most mega fauna into extinction
@@moritamikamikara3879 Take a look at the more recently extinct fauna of New Zealand for an example of hunter-gatherers over hunting species. Some societies may have been careful about over hunting, but for many it came down to a simple equation " Do I have enough to eat? No= Hunt, Yes= Don't hunt". If your tribe/ family is hungry, you kill what you can, if a species dies out....so be it. Many hunter-gatherer societies are/ were nomadic precisely because they'd hunt-out an area. The difference nowadays is population density, ancient peoples were, for the most part, simply not numerous or "efficient" enough to make large dents in otherwise healthy populations of prey species. In those locations where they were, species disappeared pretty quickly.
There is an argument to be made that our sense of "revenge" or "vindictiveness" developed specifically to protect us from predation. A group-wide emotional response to the loss of a group member sufficiently strong to override individual self-preservation and encourage a social hunt of the predator responsible so as to remove it from the immediate area.
This would have the potential to reduce the risk of predation, for a while at least....and is possibly one reason why many land based predators avoid humans, especially in a group. Over time, those predators that tried to make us a major source of food were exterminated. Those that remain (by and large) avoid us whenever feasible. There are a few exceptions of course, large crocodilians being a case in point.
Do you know how fast a Plane can be flying and a computerized anti-aircraft system will STILL take it out just fine? Those wyverns don't exactly fly at mach 2, and apparently, 50 cal can take one down in one shot.
These things are less tough than elephants, for crying out loud! Sure, maybe they're a bit of a combat challenge, but seriously, these things would cause less deaths than covid did in its first year.
Shitty meat helicopters with short range flamethrowers
😂😂😂😂👍
There wouldn't be any challenge at all, i'm pretty sure even a single manpad system could wipe the floor with the dragon, not even C-400, Patriot and other systems
The fact that they're slow is the problem. There is no heat-signature to lock on to. Nothing to track. People with military experience have already pointed out in this comment thread how difficult it would be to track a dragon. These things fly close to the ground and are capable of rapid unpredictable 360 degrees movement.
Now imagine tracking it through a heavily populated urban center as it flies between skyscrapers and setting fire to everything. How is your MACH 2 going to help you exactly?
Of course, you're real problems aren't the dragons. Your real problems are the thousands of unprotected power plants across the continent. Imagine dealing with a dozen nuclear meltdowns all at once. Now imagine dealing with a hundred.
Also, a cool thing about cities? When they start burning they kind of don't stop. They can burn for months. Years. Now imagine having to deal with millions upon millions of refugees living every single major city on the planet which are currently on fire.
@@DrevorReal We probably won't have any nuclear meltdowns, nuclear plants can be relatively safely be shut down, also we're able to deal with way smaller planes flying close to the ground, we have a bunch of ww2 anti air guns and other stuff that could kill the dragons. Also those dragons use flame to destroy things, so they're probably pretty hot.
Also laser guided missiles exist
There was one species that at one point manage to win a war against a group of humans despite having the latest technology of that time.
The Emu bird.
And dragons are just emus with the ability to fly and breath fire. If emus could do that we would all be gone
01:11 A Wyvern is literally defined as a type of Dragon with two legs, wings, and often a barbed tail (possibly tipped with a scorpion stinger). Saying that a Wyvern isn't a Dragon is like saying a tiger isn't a cat just because it isn't a housecat. Dragons are a very diverse group of semi-reptilian fictional beasts: some have two legs & wings, some have four legs & wings, some have no legs or wings, some have wings but no legs, some have four legs & no wings, some have two legs & no wings, some have fins instead of wings or legs, some have many legs or many wings, some breathe fire or ice or acidic poison, some exhale bolts of lightning or blasts of boiling steam, some can talk & use magic, some are just mindless animals, some are covered only in scales, some have feathers or hair, some have horns, some have fangs, some have beaks, etc.
Thank You!!! You said it. Aren't Cockatrice Drangons too?
Some of them don't even tick the "reptilian" box! Some depictions has them have the head of a bearded dude and a really long neck and a pair of bat wings. Wacky and, quite frankly, terrifying.
THANK YOU!!!
His definition of dragons completely excludes the Lung/Eastern style dragon, which you will NOT hear anyone argue is not a dragon
I literally only see this argument regarding wyverns, and I am sick and tired of it
Neeeeerrdddd
:)
Wyverns are not dragons. They don't fit either into western or eastern definition of dragons. They are looking more close to bats with draconic features.
i can't tell you how glad i am somebody final criticizes this i remember watching this movie at like 11 and asking my mom how could humans lose the war, even then i was questioning it and was surprised i remember her telling me how dragons won simply due to sheer numbers but ever since then to this day it made no sense to me, dragonsd defeating modern army equals human planes defeating some huge alien warship that has invincible tech, its simply impossible without a miracle.
There were millions of dragons and you are greatly overestimating how many fighter jets and tanks the world actually has. Yeah one on one a fighter jet is killing a dragon but in the world of the movie the fighter jet would be completely out of ammo to reload with after running 10s if not 100s of sorties.
@@derfvcderfvc7317 its not just fighter jets and tanks, you have to account for LAV systems, general shelling mortar fire, personal anti air missile systems, submarines with missile systems along every coast around the world. Battle carriers with laser guided missile systems, thousands of apache helicopters etc etc......not to mention once we figured out where they were nesting we would just nuke the shit out of it. Dragons simply wouldn't stand a chance. We are the most powerful species that has ever existed on this planet and the strongest that ever WILL exist on this planet, mythical or otherwise.
Humans would very obviously lose the "war".
@@DrevorReal win*
@@ericpaunovic3579 How on earth do you imagine us winning a war against hundreds of thousands of fire-breathing dragons while all our major cities are on fire and supply lines break down?
YEAAAAAA this is my favorite dragon movie!!!! So glad you’re exploring Reign of Fire. I love how they explained how their fire is basically a napalm from two chemicals combining in their mouth. They put so much thought into making them believable dinosaur age creatures and the CG still holds up. The Game of Thrones dragons were actually inspired by the dragons in this film.
It's hard to believe they can sleep for so long, but if you look at tardigrades they wake up because of the presence of water, so definitely some external process can reactivate a body.
I think there is an anime where modern humans fought a fantasy land and we straight up slaughtered them.
You're thinking of GATE I believe
And Japan's military did it, imagine if it was Merica
Even flak is pretty old technology. I could imagine a continuous rod warhead literally slicing one of these into multiple pieces. The big issue would be ammunition supply, because modern weapons that could deal with something like this with relative ease aren't really that plentiful. However, even in that situation, basically any modern machine shop could pump out big bore firearms, and with our big ole' brains, it wouldn't take long to figure out exactly what was needed to take one of these out, come up with a suitable design, and then use our instant communication magic to disseminate that to every machine shop in the world.
Actually most countries still posess stock piles of old era flak tech either because noone buys it or because they want to have something that is inexpensive to deal with low altitude planes like the c130
Whenever I think of dragons in a modern day scenario, I have to think about the anime Gate.
Modern AAA would absolutely shred the smaller ones, and a heat seeking sidewinder missile should work on large specimen.
Exactly. They shot them down and just hammer them with artillery. I don't care how magical you are, you aren't brushing that off. Plus, that gear is considered old with what a more modern military has, or at the very least claim they have.
@@mattstorm360 something something obsolete equipment rotting away in storage, might as well use it against a technologically inferior opponent.
@@tj4y48 Hey, it's not like there is anyone else threatening them.
@@mattstorm360 This just made me realize this: I wonder how easy WW2 manufacturing and materials would be to make nowadays? Like building a factory with comparable capabilities would be a joke, but I wonder if you could order WW2 quality flak cannon barrels from a modern era pipe factory for example?
@@johnstonefield1935 Extruded pipe and hammer forged, machine turned gun barrels don't even compare regardless of it being a rifle barrel of 23mm flak barrel
It is actually kind of interesting how nearly every culture on earth has some kind of depiction of dragons in their mythologies and said cultures, were often geographically and chronologically isolated from each other with no contact.
How is it that so many civilizations that would have had no contact with each other all came up with the same basic creature?
Well we do have a tendency to
1. Imagine creatures big (giant, titans etc)
2. Imagine creatures with wings (Angels, Gargoyles feathered serpent etc)
So just take a lizard, make it big, attach some wings and you get a dragon
Uncovering dinasaurs bones might have something to do with it as well
How I see it, the word “dragon” is used around like the word “bug.” Everyone calls any creepy-crawler a bug, when most of the time they are wrong. It’s all colloquial.
Spiders aren’t bugs. Ants aren’t bugs. Beetles aren’t bugs. Bees aren’t bugs. Etc.
Examples of scientific “True Bugs” are cicadas, whiteflies, bedbugs, stink bugs, and aphids.
I agree, the wyvern thing is so fucking annoying. Maybe historically dragons had 4 limbs or whatever but in the world of Reign of Fire they call these things dragons. There's no need to imbrace your inner Sheldon with the wyvern distinction.
@@christiandonofrio679yea just call em dragons its a whole lot easier for everyone
Lol ants and bees are bugs bro
It just makes it easier by referring to a general group instead of something specific
The wyvern correction was the best part of the video. It made me laugh.
The wyverns aren't dragons thing always gets to me. Depending on source they're a type of dragon
And depending on source (eg: medieval mythology) dragons actually have only 2 legs.
Many European cultures didn't even have wyverns as a mythical creature, that was just one (of many ways) to draw a dragon. It's like getting upset that not every portrayal of an intelligent fox is accurate to a Kumiho.
"Aesop's fables are wrong because the only talking foxes have multiple tails"
"Native American folklore is incorrect because the fox doesn't use beads to suck the life force out of men with kissing"
"How dare Pokémon have ninetales as a usable Pokémon?! It should be killing people and eating their hearts and livers, you can't be friends with one!"
Same here. People always try to say something isn't a dragon when the story and the author called it a dragon already
They're flying reptiles not dragons
I actually read that all Dragons, drakes and wyrms were in the wyvern family. So I guess it depends on the authors imagination. Wyvern was the family and a dragon had four or more legs, a drake had two and a wyrm had no legs, but all were Wyverns.
Of course I wasted alot time trying to differentiate between a cockatrice and a basilisk. Went through alot of books, depending on the authors the differences varied. Number of legs if any, whether or not it had wings. What kind of egg was sat upon by what animal or geographic location were all brought up by different authors. I don't think there's some ancient set lore about Wyvern, Dragons, drakes and wyrms, I kinda just stuck with the best of the theories I have read over the years, very jumbled subject. A cockatrice had wings and no legs or two legs, making it a wyrm or drake. But a Basilisk has been depicted so many different ways???? With or without wings and from no legs to ten legs.. The fact that it could have up to ten legs would suggest a wyrm, drake or dragon.
There was also one theory that has to do with age, the younger start off with no wings or legs and as it ages it grows them. Changing it's name as it goes through metamorphosis. I believe that theory had wyrms growing into wyvern and drakes growing into dragons.. Two entirely different species. Kind of like a tadpole into a frog and a caterpillar into a butterfly. Wyrms and wyvern amphibians, drakes and dragons solely on land. The cockatrice was an entirely different species than the basilisk, but both had similar characteristics. In this case coming from a Cockrell egg would make it land dwelling, while a basilisk coming from a snake's or toad's egg would suggest more amphibian. The second theory is more supportive of what's the difference between a cockatrice and a basilisk. It also helps to explain why you see more dragons and wyrms, less of drakes and Wyverns. Dragons being land and air bigger and easily spotted. Easily confused with the wyvern in the air, even though the wyvern is semi-aquatic. Wyrms being smaller and flightless would stick to shallow water to keep away from the larger dragons and wyvern. Not sure which theory I like better.
So, for those of you who do not know, Yes wyverns are a type of dragon. Anyone who says "Dragons have 4 legs and a pair of wings as a third set of limbs" knows very little about dragons and has never actually researched them nor the many broad mythologies they come from.
Dragons have been, across the world and though out time been depicted as everything from giant flying snakes with no limbs, to bipedal creatures with many wings. even massive large serpents, the word "Dragon" means "Terrible Serpent".
dragons = 6 total limbs (4 legs and 2 wings)
wyvern = 4 limbs (2 wings and legs)
drakes = legs only
wyrms = no legs/snake-like
according to my own personal research and notes in my archive...
@@kairou_mikael you didnt actually do any research did you? or are you claiming that all chinese and Japanese dragons arent dragons and all chinese/japanese people are wrong about their own mythologies? That Jörmungandr , the norse sea dragon isnt a dragon and all norse mythology had it wrong? That the very meaning of the word 'dragon' : Terrible/large serpent was been wrong for the entire time it has existed ? that you alone are right and millions of people across hundreds of cultures across hundreds of years are wrong?
@@kairou_mikael rereading what i just posted i want to apologies, it sounds way harsher/ruder then i meant it.
@@slayazes3925 yeah I'm not really offended by it so it's fine, but like I said it's based on my own PERSONAL findings and depictions cuz to me the different types of dragons are like the different types panthers which are the big cats... and as for the japanese and chinese dragons, and probably Jormungand, I'd personally classify them as wyrms as they're snake-like
@@slayazes3925 It's Cultural context. I'm Asian, we have a dragon here who eats the Moons, and it is indeed more serpent like. Which is very different from Western dragons, The point is the Cultural Context is the difference, this movie is clearly Western and not Asian, so I'm not gonna enforce my own mythology and beliefs on it. Think about it this way, Man's best friend in another world, but lunch in another. I don't mean to offend, just proving a point. They're both called dragons, but it's extremely different whether you're from the East or the West. Just find the ground you're standing it, and view it from that point. It's not like the movie has American actors but took place in China.
Great video! Would love to see a sequel where time has passed and humans have begun attempting to domesticate them. Like a real life horror version of HTTYD. One of my favorite movies growing up for sure. Definitely in line with movies like Deep Blue Sea and Anaconda. 🥰
I would've loved a sequel to this movie.
Like, what if the egg that was pulled from the dead female was still able to be incubated and it was raised to protect the humans whilst they learn another Bull was found or had awakened over in France, idk, but it would still be a cool concept as these Wyverns seem very primitive and aggressive. Would've been cool to see one raised to be not like the rest of its kind.
⁹⁹9⁹⁹⁹⁹⁸⁹⁹
All wyverns are dragons but not all dragons are wyverns. It's a common misunderstanding but there are actually 100s of dragon species out there in myths and stories but all of them have that one thing in common.
For example there is a dragon species, I forget there name, that have no wings and 6 legs. There still dragons but they look alot different.
I think you're talking about a Tarrasque. I think it was a french story?
Thank you.
@@joshsmith496 not sure, there is a crazy one where they have like 6 pairs of wings and never touch the ground. They live there life always flying.
Yep
This is how I see the whole wyvern vs dragon arguments too.
I always took it as "Not all dragons are wyverns, but all wyverns are dragons," but regardless, great video! This is a really fun movie and it's cool to see people talking about it. It's silly and ridiculous, but the effects are spectacular, and it has a certain charm to it.
"dragon
drăg′ən
noun
A mythical monster traditionally represented as a gigantic reptile having a long tail, sharp claws, scaly skin, and often wings.
Any of various lizards, such as the Komodo dragon or the flying lizard.
A fiercely vigilant or intractable person."
There's nothing about the amount of legs, wings etc, that's the DnD crowd having a meltdown that their fictional classification of something thousands of years older than their shitty lore isn't conforming to it.
@@Ackalan
classifications for dragons were done by scholars in the middle ages and not by some 4chan fantasy nerds.
those species names existed for roughly 500 years befor projects like dnd picked them up and integrated them into modern day fiction.
@@uteriel282 Thank you for agreeing with me, it's a strange way of phrasing it, but I take what I can get.
@@uteriel282 I mean you like saying it but that's not true.
@@uteriel282 Wyvern is solely a heraldic term
Monty Python taught us how dangerous medieval rabbits could be, so imagine dragons
"How would they wake up?" Oxygen exposure. At any rate, the big issue is the size, and the combination of other features. There's plenty of stuff that survives for insanely long periods of time, but for this scale all of it's bacterial or otherwise very simple stuff like worms.
Yep, anything larger can hibernate for some time, but if you've seen a bear that goes back to being fully active after winter hibernation, you can see how much weight they lost during their nap time.
@@Schnittertm1 and a canadian (tree?) frog but it has adapted so that its tissues are actually frozen with ice crystals and everything
I'd buy it more if there were some other symbiotic species down in those caves with them. They could even make a scientific version of other mythological creatures. I'm guessing creatures that would convert minerals into nutrients for the dragon and the sleeping dragon giving them heat to live off?
After watching Unnatural History Channel, (a good companion to this one I think) One of the concepts that stood out to me is the "Fox in the Hen house" behavior issue. In summery a predator kills everything it can because it doesn't know when it's next meal is. If we consider that humanity is top dog we can note that humans deliberately do not kill everything thus meaning that we actually are a rather merciful species that goes out of it's way to kill well beneath our means.
Just a funny thought to consider. Anxiety apes number 1
(also when my dad first saw that convoy years ago he immediately said "they're dead")
The reason we don't kill everything is because we know that there's gonna be food on the plate, hell we're less merciful cauz instead of killing everything for survival reasons the Soviets and Americans were about to destroy the entire world multiple times cauz they think slightly different about the governance
@@phantomreaver85 Literally what is wrong with what this guy said?
We’ve merked plenty species basically for the hell of it. We don’t just kill everything that we could because we know that it’s not necessary to do that to survive, not because we’re merciful.
My explanation to the inconsistencies with the Wyverns within the film was just chalked up to magic. Dragons have always been sighted as magically inclined creatures being able to use it, be spawned by it or simply exist due to it. Perhaps magic is what makes the Wyverns in the film not only inconsistent and confusing to our understanding of science but so freaking tough as well. I know magic could be seen as a cop-out answer but, it's the only one I have.
You basically just did a "wizard did it" scenario
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby Least sometimes if its different dimensions the argument holds some ground cause the physics and what makes up the building blocks or evolution of creatures would be 100% foreign to our world and its chemicals and atoms
You can’t expect a biologist to break it down with “magic”
I think it's worth noting that "magic" is not really an accurate display. For example "Magic" could be considered breathing fire. We now know it's not impossible for something to breath fire with the proper combinations of chemicals that can be shot from sacks within the back of the mouth which will ignite upon either combination with each other, or access to a larger quantity of oxygen. I sort-of feel like there would certainly be a scientific explanation for these things. 100 years ago I don't think most people could have considered something that could "breath fire" to be plausible outside of magic but it certainly is.
For example a small metal projectile like a bullet may not be able to pierce the scales of a creatures, especially if it hits in the center of that scale. A wedge-shaped object fired at high velocity *Like a machine fired arrow.* Could find a weakness within the armored scales of the creature. Kind of how chainmail can deflect many things, but can also be completely void when engaging in another type of attack. Chainmail is very good at stopping a slashing motion of a sharpened sword edge, but is pretty shit at stopping a directed "thrust" from the point of a sword or spear.
A more modern example would be Kevlar vests can be very efficient at stopping a bullet, but at close courters with a knife or sword really does nothing to prevent potential injury outside of requiring slightly more force for the blade to penetrate.
Even an explosive charge would be a larger force, but also over a larger area. The scales could absorb that larger blow, but if it was more directed like a spear-point than it could punch through the groove of a scale into the body bellow. Consider the structure of a chicken egg. Squeezing a chicken egg in your palm won't really break it even if you try your hardest. But a simple direct hit on a smaller angle can crack the egg in two regardless if you are using much less force than trying to crush it in the palm of your hand.
The dragon's could never take on the military but they don't have to be a geological wolrd emergency that would ruin millions of lives if 100 dragons were flying over new york rn it be chaos