I have a Defender P400e PHEV with the rear locker. As I live in Finland, I have Nokian Hakkapeliitta 10 SUV studded winter tyres. When I put the car in Sand mode and raise it to off-road height, it eats up conditions like these for breakfast.
@@Beary98 question, was that due to the existing tire tracks? It definitely didn't want to go in the deep snow, no. The truck seemed to have less of a problem with this.
@@ilmswilliams Given the torque explanation below in another comment, or maybe just how their traction control works in reverse vs forward... Who knows. I do know my astro with blizzaks has been through much worse lol
I'm learning really quick from watching these videos and others like it that "Snow Mode" in most AWD platforms is designed for people who don't know how to drive on snow/ice covered roads, but still need to get to the grocery store. Not so much for drivers who are experienced in snowy conditions blazing trail up a hillside. If you know what your doing a "Mud/Ruts" or "Sand" mode definitely seems to be the better choice.
It's a throttle response trick. Snow mode slows down throttle response to try to keep too much torque from hitting the tires too quick and making them break traction. It's really only useful for slick streets and not snow off road. Sand mode, on the other hand, speeds up throttle response. In situations like this, the sand mode is clearly better.
Yes. Snow mode is designed for snow roads not off road snow driving. It’s set up to help keep the wheels from slipping and keeping you on the road. I’m sure they were just having fun for the videos sake Roman must know this by now
Sand in the defender is basically traction off up to 20-30mph so you’re achieving the same thing but maintain some stability control once you go faster
@@ArosaMike open diffs are 50:50 torque so if one wheel has no traction the other gets the same little amount of torque. It requires massive resistance from the brakes which can also hurt momentum to bring the torque up for both wheels. This means it can take up to double the engine torque to achieve the same drive torque as a locker would naturally do since it biases torque. . Dual lockers means torque delivery is maximized across all 4 wheels without needing resistance from the brakes meaning it uses the least amount of engine torque to drive it. No momentum robbing brake actuations and no loss of torque when a wheel slips and the system is waiting to engage the brake. . Fully locked driveline is an amazing feeling. You can literally feel the torque move around without losing momentum to traction in many situations.
Thanks you guys. This has to be one of my favorite channels, because of this right here. You all have fun making unbiased for the most part videos of trucks every one drives on daily basis. And do the things we all have to do with our rigs, like the tow test and tthe getting stuck in the snow..... Thanks for the great vids.
Rest assured the main achievement of the TRX that no other truck can match will be sucking down gas, they'll need to install a refueling tank before taking the TRX to the property.
I’m thinking Land Rover is going to pay TFL to stop reviewing their SUV’s ! In all seriousness, would like to see the same conditions with different tires. I have a Land Rover Discovery and drove through a snow and ice storm just last week, without any issues what so ever. We only stopped because they closed the roads.
@@gabevillarreal96 I've had a 2012 LR4 for 6 years now and it's been about as reliable as the '95 Land Cruiser that I bought in 2000 and drove for 8 years. On the other hand, before that 95 Land Cruiser I had a 94 Discovery that was really unreliable (but never the "leave you stranded" kind of unreliable). In my experience and belief, the lore of Land Rover unreliability is relegated to older models, first model year issues, and youtubers trying to get clicks. Once modern Land Rovers got rid of the BMW electrics (06 LR3, 08 Range Rover), they got pretty reliable.
@@rl9810 Interesting! Good for you truly because that is not most people's experience. But that is still too many instances of unreliability. Older models and new design models just about cover most models. I believe you are an exceptional case. It's gonna take a very very long time of consistent really good reliability for the brand to slowly lose their reputation as terrible in that category. Even TFL's experience with their landrover was awful in terms of breakdowns and dealer visits from brand new. You just don't see that happening with Toyota and Honda. But maybe they will shake that stigma after getting rid of BMW electronics. Somebody should have been fired for selecting and approving BMW electronics as the brands choice to install into their vehicles when that's literally THE WORST PART OF BMW. Why not Consult the Japanese who happen to do it better than anyone on the planet!? Just goes to show you that there are some incompetent people heading giant multi billion dollar companies who have mo business doing so.
I am stoked for your 1st owned dedicated off road property! Now you and Ryan can compare similar vehicles in similar ways. Albeit, he has a large hill for up and down hill aggressive sloping tests, you do seem to have some of that option as well! Congrats TFL! Applause. Would like to see Andre's Buhanka vs the Orange Zilla. (F100)
The Defender isn’t really a “car”. Also which is better will depend on the 4WD system, tyres, weight distribution, engine power and torque etc etc etc. Early on Roman says air suspension lets him “raise the truck” after he initially called it a car and called the Ute a truck!!!!!!! Sniper Hill in Defender should have just used Snow mode with traction control off like the instructions say on the Terrain Response system. Brakes are not smoking. That’s steam. Andre just drove up the Defender’s tracks. Roman comes to a stop on Nathan’s crack whereas Andre used momentum to get up the other side. Then Roman cries stuck as he always does after about 2 seconds of not moving. He wasn’t stuck. The main issue is the Tundra has better tyres.
You can argue that the Defender IS a car. It uses a unibody construction that is pretty much used in all passenger cars/crossovers. Meanwhile body on frame chassis is mostly used by trucks, certain SUV's and heavy machinery.
The more I watch these real world off-road challenges the more I become a firm believer that these drive modes are completely useless. Just about anyone would be better off having all of what the vehicle has (all the power) and learning to drive the vehicle in those conditions. At least that way everything would be predictable instead of rolling the dice on whether or not the computer is feeling it. Can't wait to see what else you all can do on this property! Great vid.
So you bought tumbleweed ranch? If so,you can make such a great course there to test all the vehicles. This is a great snow video guys. Thanks so much for doing it.
I feel like this is much more damning for Land Rover in the snow than for SUVs in the snow. They should have used the Tundra and a 4Runner so there's no question about terrain select differences or brand differences.
Tires make all of the difference in snow. I remember having an old rear wheel drive car with snow tires and a few sand bags in the trunk and I was unstoppable where vans, SUV's and pick ups were getting stock. Use the proper tires
I’m no land rover fan, tires would make a lot difference here. No locking diff either. I just am not a believer of all that tech, all that cost and got thrashed by 65 Ford. Personally, even with tundra, I turn all that off, low range, lock the diff and it would go
Low range generally not that great in deep snow or sand as you’re far more likely to dig yourself into a hole pulling away, and you don’t have the length in single gears to keep your momentum up. Low Range is great if you’re already stuck though and need the control from pullaway.
me neither, been there done that never again. Traction is everything however the Defender is Land Rover's off road vehicle there is no excuse for it to be as incapable as it is out of the show room. Would not be surprised as all to find out the Defender earned a trip to the mechanic.
@@Steve-yr5vi Not a great deal out there that’s as refined on road as as capable off it straight from the showroom. Without modification, there isn’t really much else that could perform better in this test….least of all in deep snow that’s already been ploughed up by another car…..
@@ArosaMike when you are lacking torque that’s exactly what low range is for. Start off in 3rd gear if you need to, but clearly 1st hi range didn’t have the torque delivery. . Plus low range gives closer ratios so when you shift you have the rpm higher. . Your situation is only when you are trying to LIMIT wheel spin and thus want to limit wheel torque.
Great vid! Between Nathan’s crack and Nathan seeing brown in it….I’m not sure there’s much more to say 😂. Seriously. Love your videos keep up the great work!
Right off the bat, it's pretty obvious that No Mode would be better than the stupid "modes" for weenies that some of these modern 4x4s have. Why did Roman even bother stopping the wheels from turning? Is there no option to just turn that crap off? And why does it not surprise me that the old Ford, that didn't even have enough torque to cut donuts, out off-roaded the new Defender and Toyota?
Here’s why your defender failed in high range yet could get wheelspin in low range. . Open diffs are 50:50 torque, so when one wheel has no traction the opposite wheel gets no torque. So you rely on heavy braking which also hurts momentum to raise the torque at the axle. Problem with this is that you can take up to (and beyond) double the torque to drive the vehicle vs what it actually needs. So low range multiplies engine torque which you ran out of and gives you enough to work the brakes and move you forward. . A locker biases(maximizes) torque by making sure both wheels match their traction limit before either can spin. This means you get the absolute maximum drive torque to the ground with no brake robbing momentum action with the minimal amount of torque from the engine to achieve this.
@@ARlELATOM for the most part yes, but some programs only work in hi and others only work in lo. Depends on the manufacture as well. Low range just develops a lot more torque for the traction control program to use up.
My 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium absolutely loves the snow and plows through it like a runaway train.. It's all in the tires!.. The technology like snow modes can help, but not without good tires.. I live in Northern British Columbia mountains , which means snow, snow, more snow, EVEN more snow and a side of arctic storms lol.. You want excellent tires and if you lack modern technology like a snow mode, you'll be just fine with the right snow tires! Great video! PS: Roman has the Nathan's cracks on the brain a tad too much lol
I was curious when I noticed the "For Sale" sign at the end of the lane on your recent TFL Classics video with the Citroen top speed. Now it makes sense! Congrats on Tumbleweed Ranch guys!!
I remember when 4 wheel drive meant 4 wheel drive. Now it’s called what mode am i in.and how long will my brake shoes last because I’m in a mode trying to get through some snow.
@@coolsquad7428 limited slip won’t affect the brakes, and many Jeep don’t have the limited slip. It’s the “brake lock differential” feature which they just actuate a brake on the side that’s spinning to send power to the other side. The BLD does work amazingly well, just wears the brakes out faster. (Worth it)
Land rover is overpriced garbage. They are literally a dumpster fire on wheels. Not one of their vehicles is truly worthy off road or on for that matter. Computers don't out do lockers, low range 4x4, and proper acceleration control.
Love the snow review's. I had a 2016 power wagon and snow was it's enemy. How I have a 2021 Tundra and it would drive circle around the Power wagon in snow.
Tires did the defender in here. With those shoes you were better off traction control fully off and modulating the throttle yourself keeping the momentum up.
I lost all respect for Landrover here and to think that I grew up in military Landrovers that were considered very capable offroaders. That Tacoma is a beast, wasn't expecting this. The OG Ford truck just showed me why Ford Trucks sell so much
My 250k mi 1999 4Runner limited would destroy those hills. So simple with old school hi/low shifter, elocker and(cutting edge at the time) fancy push button AWD for rain/snow on the road. Every time I consider upgrading to fully push button rigs, i reconsider after watching videos like this.
Land Rover’s snow mode is completely designed to be used in hard packed snow where wheel spin is the LAST thing you want or else it becomes glazed and straight ice. Toyota’s mode is called DEEP snow for a reason. Anyone who drives a Land Rover seriously will throw it into sand mode and turn off traction control immediately.
Technology and Sunday drivers at their best! Never wait down a "Nathan's Crack" to go thru it it! One trick: never stop in the snow! Drove 1 mile in 6 inches of snow to get to the main road with my Pontiac Firefly 1990 (12 inches tires 145-80-12) never got stuck be never stopped!
Manufacturer snow modes on the defender is for flat slippery roads mainly..... Not hills with deep snow..... Is traction control only hinders movement in deep snow.... Hills take a lot of tire..... Try to find flat deep snow and see how they do..... I hope you have a recovery rope.... You need to keep one every time you do this stuff.... Keep up the good work on the videos....
Now do the ON-road version of this, which is more relevant to most folks most of the time. Pickups & delivery vans I've driven turn and stop like crap on snow-packed/icy roads. That seemingly worthless snow mode on the Defender might actually be useful on snow-packed/icy roads.
I am ok with many of the features on today's cars and trucks. Sometimes computers can think/feel faster than us and keep us out of trouble. BUT this video proves how much we just need an "All Nannies Off" button to do stuff. Lock them up and spin! Snow is it's own beast.
In snow, locking diffs- and especially lockers all round, because there are situations specifically in snow when you need the front but not the rear- are better than electronics in every way. During the hillclimb was a perfect example where locking the front diff and not the rear would have pulled the truck straight up the hill, rather than wildly snaking around. It's not an example of old tech being better than new tech, but... okay, it is an example of that. 100 percent. Off road modes have their place, but when it gets tough, mechanical solutions are just SO much better than electronics.
Congratulations for the ranch now you guys have you own play ground to keep the fun . The Defender is an over priced tech toy. Tundra is a game changer The old Ford is the king .
The defender : First run.He was slipping until he dug down deep enough to hit the solid ground , thats when he got more traction to be able to take off.That is what you should do before you start a run on snow, check how deep the snow is and if you can get traction on the actual solid dirt under the snow.If its too deep then you get high centered and game over.
I think alot of Tundras reliability just went away by switching from the proven 5.7 to turbo's, Turbo's put way to much pressure in these engines for long jevity, but we'll just have to wait & see. But the ford's 3.5 is only good for 80,000 to 150,000 before major problems can & have shown itself.
@@scottyellis3442 Are you seriously saying that because Ford's engine is unreliable so will the new Tundra's engine? Toyota has been building reliable turbo engines for decades. Furthermore the engine used in the Tundra is being used in the GR Hilux race pickup in the Dakar rally. Toyota is doing this to prove the engine is extremely durable and reliable.
I've literally seen a Land Rover broken down in the middle of the road with the hood up!! I would never buy one. My Toyota has 160k and has never visited the shop other than regular maintenance 🥰
I have conducted test entering my garage. It’s a slight incline. Two trucks . BOTH with studded tires. My 2015 Tundra and a ZR2 with lockers . And if there is ice under the snow good luck ! A slight angle and snow/ ice your done with out momentum.
2:44...nooooo. Noobie mistake (I've made it also:). Snow mode is for slippery surfaces: icy/snowy road etc. It is very heavy on traction control and cuts down engine. Starts in 3rd gear etc. For deep snow sand or mud mode are the best.
Normally I love these types of videos from you guys but for this one to be meaningful you really need the same tires on both. That would be really interesting to watch!
It both sets of tires were AT and snow rated so they had to have meet the same basic requirements to get that rating. It wasn’t like one vehicle had all season tires vs the he other.
Great comparo guys! That old Ford made all the new tech look less capable with the exception of the Snow Nuts (because you couldn't get enough wheel spin?). Welcome Tumbleweed Ranch to the TFL family.
TFL/Roach Chaser bought a ranch? That's good news, as it means you have a place to store vehicles and test vehicles, you can register said vehicles there and avoid all the emissions garbage you had to deal with in boulder, and that the company had a great 2021 in order to be able to afford the ranch to begin with. Just good news all around. Also, another benefit is you get to name everything, like Nathan's Crack or Sniper Hill. I would imagine anyone who has ever seen a TFL vid had to chuckle at least a little bit with the Nathan's Crack name. Those of us who watch a lot of TFL burst out in laughter every single time you mentioned it, too. In order to make it up to Nathan, you should name the largest hill on the property 'Nathan's Bicep' because his bicep has to be at least as big as his crack.
I am a Toyota guy but I think Traction mode on the Defender was on all the time. That's why breaks were hitting all the time and pads are smoking.. select the right mode. This is a land rover for god sake
That’s the literal regulatory standard for what a snow tire is. Obviously it can be exceeded, but that’s the minimum required grip before traction devices need to be used. Just like summer performance tires, some are dramatically better than others.
It seems like crossover’s the key when you get them going is not to stop keep your foot into it when you stop full they have a super hard time getting going
Commentors talking about tires, but both on AT Winter tires. Same basic tires for this type of comparison. My XJ in ATs hasn’t been stuck on steep snow climbs or muddy/snow slop. Modern tech just hasn’t brought enough to the table for the conditions. Tech is for everyday driving on the road, that’s its stand out time
Nice video. My best friend had that same old Ford in 2 WD. He dropped a 454 in it. Some things I learned from years of off-roading. Tire tread styles make a HUGE difference. Hi range is better than low for snow. On average trucks did not do as well as SUVs because rear ends are so light. Would be cool to see a test like this and include a Subaru. I’ve had them and they are amazing in snow!
Not only tread but also things like tire pressure and material. Winter tires usually are softer material for instance. Tire pressure makes a massive difference in anything soft.
Depends on the snow conditions I guess out on a frozen lake with deep snow 4low works better more torque at lower rpm’s = less wheel spin when taking off because it starts crawling with less throttle and doesn’t dig down
Gotta hit nathans Crack hard and fast! Didn't realize it would fit things sideways! I really thought the defender would have done better, but wow what a piece of junk! And thx for taking the ford out to show the kids how it's done, great video
I have a Defender P400e PHEV with the rear locker. As I live in Finland, I have Nokian Hakkapeliitta 10 SUV studded winter tyres. When I put the car in Sand mode and raise it to off-road height, it eats up conditions like these for breakfast.
These videos are fun to watch but it really should be called 'this tire vs that tire'
@@lyman135 thank you defender of the tests! Your internet comment really forced me to re-evaluate my... No, it really didn't lol
@@lyman135 lol thank you so much. You're so awesome.
I'm a HUUUGE advocate of tires. However, in this case... defender was like backwards?? SURE! Forwards? F*CK no
@@Beary98 question, was that due to the existing tire tracks? It definitely didn't want to go in the deep snow, no. The truck seemed to have less of a problem with this.
@@ilmswilliams
Given the torque explanation below in another comment, or maybe just how their traction control works in reverse vs forward...
Who knows. I do know my astro with blizzaks has been through much worse lol
I'm learning really quick from watching these videos and others like it that "Snow Mode" in most AWD platforms is designed for people who don't know how to drive on snow/ice covered roads, but still need to get to the grocery store. Not so much for drivers who are experienced in snowy conditions blazing trail up a hillside. If you know what your doing a "Mud/Ruts" or "Sand" mode definitely seems to be the better choice.
It's a throttle response trick. Snow mode slows down throttle response to try to keep too much torque from hitting the tires too quick and making them break traction. It's really only useful for slick streets and not snow off road. Sand mode, on the other hand, speeds up throttle response. In situations like this, the sand mode is clearly better.
Yes. Snow mode is designed for snow roads not off road snow driving. It’s set up to help keep the wheels from slipping and keeping you on the road. I’m sure they were just having fun for the videos sake Roman must know this by now
All the modes are for that. Also about snow; there is so many types of snow that it would be difficult to make one "mode" to cover it all.
Good summary. Applies to most any “mode” I would think.
By how the snow modes perform IMO its DESIGNED by people who DON'T know how to drive in ice and snow.😅😅
Front and rear lockers with no traction control has always worked better off road than modes.
Sand in the defender is basically traction off up to 20-30mph so you’re achieving the same thing but maintain some stability control once you go faster
@@ArosaMike open diffs are 50:50 torque so if one wheel has no traction the other gets the same little amount of torque. It requires massive resistance from the brakes which can also hurt momentum to bring the torque up for both wheels. This means it can take up to double the engine torque to achieve the same drive torque as a locker would naturally do since it biases torque.
.
Dual lockers means torque delivery is maximized across all 4 wheels without needing resistance from the brakes meaning it uses the least amount of engine torque to drive it. No momentum robbing brake actuations and no loss of torque when a wheel slips and the system is waiting to engage the brake.
.
Fully locked driveline is an amazing feeling. You can literally feel the torque move around without losing momentum to traction in many situations.
I am and will always be the best stability control available.
Me laughing in TJ...
Exactly. I'm glad my 2015 F-150 FX4 is just 2WD, 4 HI and 4 LO with a rear locker, no modes and you can turn off traction control. Sweet and simple.
Great video, guys! I love that the old truck without any electronics & terrain management did so well.
My favorite TFL vehicle so far has been Big Green. 1985 K10 I am currently doing a resto mod on a 1982 K10.
@@jeffrentsch4318 Very nice!
@@jeffrentsch4318 Steven Elmer (former TFL member) from Truck King as big green in Canada. He did a video of Big Green vs TRX in snow. It was awesome.
With momentum the old truck did it easy. Would have liked it to do it the same as others To keep it fair.
That's because it 95% tire and 5% vehicle
Thanks you guys. This has to be one of my favorite channels, because of this right here. You all have fun making unbiased for the most part videos of trucks every one drives on daily basis. And do the things we all have to do with our rigs, like the tow test and tthe getting stuck in the snow..... Thanks for the great vids.
I’d love to see what the TRX can do in these conditions.
ua-cam.com/video/2EqcCMyaUgc/v-deo.html
Power!!
And the Bronco...
Rest assured the main achievement of the TRX that no other truck can match will be sucking down gas, they'll need to install a refueling tank before taking the TRX to the property.
The Truck King got one stuck in the snow
New rule: Use the Buhanka as the control in any snow test.
Will do!
I’m thinking Land Rover is going to pay TFL to stop reviewing their SUV’s ! In all seriousness, would like to see the same conditions with different tires. I have a Land Rover Discovery and drove through a snow and ice storm just last week, without any issues what so ever. We only stopped because they closed the roads.
What has your repair history been like? Just curious.
You mean it was not in the shop the entire time?
@@HyperXism That's the brand's hard earned Reputation! Great off road, terrible and atrocious reliability!
@@gabevillarreal96 I've had a 2012 LR4 for 6 years now and it's been about as reliable as the '95 Land Cruiser that I bought in 2000 and drove for 8 years. On the other hand, before that 95 Land Cruiser I had a 94 Discovery that was really unreliable (but never the "leave you stranded" kind of unreliable). In my experience and belief, the lore of Land Rover unreliability is relegated to older models, first model year issues, and youtubers trying to get clicks. Once modern Land Rovers got rid of the BMW electrics (06 LR3, 08 Range Rover), they got pretty reliable.
@@rl9810 Interesting! Good for you truly because that is not most people's experience. But that is still too many instances of unreliability. Older models and new design models just about cover most models. I believe you are an exceptional case. It's gonna take a very very long time of consistent really good reliability for the brand to slowly lose their reputation as terrible in that category. Even TFL's experience with their landrover was awful in terms of breakdowns and dealer visits from brand new. You just don't see that happening with Toyota and Honda. But maybe they will shake that stigma after getting rid of BMW electronics. Somebody should have been fired for selecting and approving BMW electronics as the brands choice to install into their vehicles when that's literally THE WORST PART OF BMW. Why not Consult the Japanese who happen to do it better than anyone on the planet!? Just goes to show you that there are some incompetent people heading giant multi billion dollar companies who have mo business doing so.
I am stoked for your 1st owned dedicated off road property! Now you and Ryan can compare similar vehicles in similar ways. Albeit, he has a large hill for up and down hill aggressive sloping tests, you do seem to have some of that option as well! Congrats TFL! Applause. Would like to see Andre's Buhanka vs the Orange Zilla. (F100)
Personally I think they should put a 351 Windsor in the orange F100 or maybe a 460
Gotta give it to the old Ford. Maybe you need to make a video "Tech vs. No Tech" and see what wins.
That old beast sure did make the LR look like a soy latte sippin boy toy
The Defender isn’t really a “car”. Also which is better will depend on the 4WD system, tyres, weight distribution, engine power and torque etc etc etc.
Early on Roman says air suspension lets him “raise the truck” after he initially called it a car and called the Ute a truck!!!!!!!
Sniper Hill in Defender should have just used Snow mode with traction control off like the instructions say on the Terrain Response system.
Brakes are not smoking. That’s steam.
Andre just drove up the Defender’s tracks.
Roman comes to a stop on Nathan’s crack whereas Andre used momentum to get up the other side. Then Roman cries stuck as he always does after about 2 seconds of not moving. He wasn’t stuck.
The main issue is the Tundra has better tyres.
You can argue that the Defender IS a car. It uses a unibody construction that is pretty much used in all passenger cars/crossovers. Meanwhile body on frame chassis is mostly used by trucks, certain SUV's and heavy machinery.
The more I watch these real world off-road challenges the more I become a firm believer that these drive modes are completely useless. Just about anyone would be better off having all of what the vehicle has (all the power) and learning to drive the vehicle in those conditions. At least that way everything would be predictable instead of rolling the dice on whether or not the computer is feeling it. Can't wait to see what else you all can do on this property! Great vid.
"Roman, I see something brown!" Nathan's Crack truly is No Man's Land.
What happened to the TFL Defender? It quietly disappeared.
Already sold.
You can sell a used 2021 Defender for 10 to 15k over asking right now.
So you bought tumbleweed ranch? If so,you can make such a great course there to test all the vehicles. This is a great snow video guys. Thanks so much for doing it.
Was expecting the Defender to blow up 💥☄️🔥🤪
says Car but picks one of the best off roading SUVs/
Exactly.
So true OMG! 😂😂
Depends on definition of Car and Truck. Think they went with unibody car vrs body on frame truck. Although he referred to Defender as truck...
Too much electronics pretty useless in the snow.
It's all about the tires. The test should be done with the same tires on both.
Should be factory tires all depends on tires but i can go get a set of nitros and put it on q Honda civic and make it threw this lol
Totally agree. TFL needs to get a tire sponsor.
Tires, and weight
I feel like this is much more damning for Land Rover in the snow than for SUVs in the snow. They should have used the Tundra and a 4Runner so there's no question about terrain select differences or brand differences.
Tires make all of the difference in snow. I remember having an old rear wheel drive car with snow tires and a few sand bags in the trunk and I was unstoppable where vans, SUV's and pick ups were getting stock. Use the proper tires
Question... how far you can go offroad in New Defender, before it eats brakes? And also if it will kill break pads quicker than empty fuel tank?
I’m no land rover fan, tires would make a lot difference here. No locking diff either. I just am not a believer of all that tech, all that cost and got thrashed by 65 Ford. Personally, even with tundra, I turn all that off, low range, lock the diff and it would go
Low range generally not that great in deep snow or sand as you’re far more likely to dig yourself into a hole pulling away, and you don’t have the length in single gears to keep your momentum up. Low Range is great if you’re already stuck though and need the control from pullaway.
me neither, been there done that never again. Traction is everything however the Defender is Land Rover's off road vehicle there is no excuse for it to be as incapable as it is out of the show room. Would not be surprised as all to find out the Defender earned a trip to the mechanic.
@@Steve-yr5vi Not a great deal out there that’s as refined on road as as capable off it straight from the showroom. Without modification, there isn’t really much else that could perform better in this test….least of all in deep snow that’s already been ploughed up by another car…..
@@ArosaMike when you are lacking torque that’s exactly what low range is for. Start off in 3rd gear if you need to, but clearly 1st hi range didn’t have the torque delivery.
.
Plus low range gives closer ratios so when you shift you have the rpm higher.
.
Your situation is only when you are trying to LIMIT wheel spin and thus want to limit wheel torque.
35'' tires and momentum helped the old truck. If they took it slow like with the others it would also have struggled.
Great vid! Between Nathan’s crack and Nathan seeing brown in it….I’m not sure there’s much more to say 😂. Seriously. Love your videos keep up the great work!
Nathan's Crack should be conquered quickly. Get it get out. Nathan's Crack is not a place to stay.
Right off the bat, it's pretty obvious that No Mode would be better than the stupid "modes" for weenies that some of these modern 4x4s have. Why did Roman even bother stopping the wheels from turning? Is there no option to just turn that crap off? And why does it not surprise me that the old Ford, that didn't even have enough torque to cut donuts, out off-roaded the new Defender and Toyota?
Here’s why your defender failed in high range yet could get wheelspin in low range.
.
Open diffs are 50:50 torque, so when one wheel has no traction the opposite wheel gets no torque. So you rely on heavy braking which also hurts momentum to raise the torque at the axle. Problem with this is that you can take up to (and beyond) double the torque to drive the vehicle vs what it actually needs. So low range multiplies engine torque which you ran out of and gives you enough to work the brakes and move you forward.
.
A locker biases(maximizes) torque by making sure both wheels match their traction limit before either can spin. This means you get the absolute maximum drive torque to the ground with no brake robbing momentum action with the minimal amount of torque from the engine to achieve this.
This guy understands low range is better in most low traction situations. A+
Are you saying low range is better than the different modes?
@@ARlELATOM I’m saying it helps the modes by making more torque available
@@KTMcaptain oh I see… so low range and high range are separate from the different modes?
@@ARlELATOM for the most part yes, but some programs only work in hi and others only work in lo. Depends on the manufacture as well. Low range just develops a lot more torque for the traction control program to use up.
I appreciate you properly classifying that Land Rover as a car, because that’s what it is.
My 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium absolutely loves the snow and plows through it like a runaway train.. It's all in the tires!.. The technology like snow modes can help, but not without good tires.. I live in Northern British Columbia mountains , which means snow, snow, more snow, EVEN more snow and a side of arctic storms lol.. You want excellent tires and if you lack modern technology like a snow mode, you'll be just fine with the right snow tires!
Great video!
PS: Roman has the Nathan's cracks on the brain a tad too much lol
Toyota did put Land Rover to shame
What's new, you go to the majority of places with harsh terrain and you'll mostly only see Toyota.
Yup I see the Toyota’s stuck all the time, that is always expected
@@paulhunter9613 You didn’t watch the video
Theo defender snow mode is just for riding in the city during snow days, not for off-roading
Not really, the defender's driver put himself to shame. Look at how the first driver used momentum to get up while the second didn’t.
Love that old Ford truck. That looked like a fun video to make
I was curious when I noticed the "For Sale" sign at the end of the lane on your recent TFL Classics video with the Citroen top speed. Now it makes sense! Congrats on Tumbleweed Ranch guys!!
I remember when 4 wheel drive meant 4 wheel drive. Now it’s called what mode am i in.and how long will my brake shoes last because I’m in a mode trying to get through some snow.
Every Jeep group now: “why are my rear brake pads gone at 30k but the fronts are fine?”
@@kc510 because of the rear limited slip diff thats why
@@coolsquad7428 limited slip won’t affect the brakes, and many Jeep don’t have the limited slip. It’s the “brake lock differential” feature which they just actuate a brake on the side that’s spinning to send power to the other side.
The BLD does work amazingly well, just wears the brakes out faster. (Worth it)
@@kc510 ye
Everytime TFL takes a Defender off the pavement they continue to prove how WORTHLESS these expensive piles are. To much tech.
Land rover is overpriced garbage. They are literally a dumpster fire on wheels. Not one of their vehicles is truly worthy off road or on for that matter. Computers don't out do lockers, low range 4x4, and proper acceleration control.
Add 600 lbs of sand bags to the back of the trucks over the rear axle if you really want to see them perform in the snow.
Every car I’ve ever owned came standard with snow mode. It was called my right foot applying proper pressure to the accelerator
Tell me you don't know how the terrain management system works without telling me.
Love the snow review's. I had a 2016 power wagon and snow was it's enemy. How I have a 2021 Tundra and it would drive circle around the Power wagon in snow.
You need to disable the traction control system on the power wagon and it will be much better in the snow ❄.
So what have we learned children? If you want to get stuck use new tech. If you just want to go in the snow use old tech. 😂
Tires did the defender in here. With those shoes you were better off traction control fully off and modulating the throttle yourself keeping the momentum up.
I lost all respect for Landrover here and to think that I grew up in military Landrovers that were considered very capable offroaders. That Tacoma is a beast, wasn't expecting this. The OG Ford truck just showed me why Ford Trucks sell so much
congrats on the property!! Andre told me about this while he was at the house the other day!
Congrats on the Ranch! Can’t wait to see more videos here! I’d love to see you all compare a pick up truck vs “mid sized” suv like your grand cherokee
Thanks. I think I’ll be keeping our ‘18 TRD Off Road 4Runner.
Shh do not tell them how great our 2018 4R TRD OR is. That would spoil their fun of what is best.
A Raptor with the Torsen front end would make this snow look like childs play
Ford for the win 🏅 🇺🇸
My 250k mi 1999 4Runner limited would destroy those hills. So simple with old school hi/low shifter, elocker and(cutting edge at the time) fancy push button AWD for rain/snow on the road. Every time I consider upgrading to fully push button rigs, i reconsider after watching videos like this.
Land Rover’s snow mode is completely designed to be used in hard packed snow where wheel spin is the LAST thing you want or else it becomes glazed and straight ice. Toyota’s mode is called DEEP snow for a reason. Anyone who drives a Land Rover seriously will throw it into sand mode and turn off traction control immediately.
at least the Defender finally got a wheel and tire upgrade, so you're not popping them when attempting offroad antics again, lol.
No, it has the stock wheels and tires.
You guyz are honest reviewers.....so we see your videos....like your videos🤩🤩🤩.....its so tough these days to see honest videos🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Technology and Sunday drivers at their best! Never wait down a "Nathan's Crack" to go thru it it!
One trick: never stop in the snow! Drove 1 mile in 6 inches of snow to get to the main road with my Pontiac Firefly 1990 (12 inches tires 145-80-12) never got stuck be never stopped!
Not a good day when you see brown on any crack covered by snow. The cow’s face was priceless 👍😂👍
Awesome video. Funny too “look what you did to Nathan’s crack”. You guys rock. Snownads!!
Manufacturer snow modes on the defender is for flat slippery roads mainly..... Not hills with deep snow..... Is traction control only hinders movement in deep snow.... Hills take a lot of tire..... Try to find flat deep snow and see how they do..... I hope you have a recovery rope.... You need to keep one every time you do this stuff.... Keep up the good work on the videos....
Now do the ON-road version of this, which is more relevant to most folks most of the time. Pickups & delivery vans I've driven turn and stop like crap on snow-packed/icy roads. That seemingly worthless snow mode on the Defender might actually be useful on snow-packed/icy roads.
This is an off-road channel.
"I've got it floored and im not even turning the tires" lol reminds me of the subaru videos
I’m in Hampton Roads praying for some snow this winter. Just for a few short hours of wheelin’ to the grocery store in my 4Runner.
That defender looks like it just secured its position as a mall crawler
Where’s the car?
It is obvious that snow there is very different than it is here in the east. Glad you loaded On X on the Tundra.
I would say from my time in the snow when I was in upstate new York I would say tires are what would help you make it thru the snow.
The Defender was trying to be a Bronco with Trail Turn Assist!! Land Rover calls it the “Pirouette”
I hope you know bronco pinched it from the land cruiser
@@akilghosh hahah, no I didn’t know that. Thanks!
Land cruiser has this tech since 2008. And still wouldn't malfunction like Mall Rovers.
I am ok with many of the features on today's cars and trucks. Sometimes computers can think/feel faster than us and keep us out of trouble. BUT this video proves how much we just need an "All Nannies Off" button to do stuff. Lock them up and spin! Snow is it's own beast.
In snow, locking diffs- and especially lockers all round, because there are situations specifically in snow when you need the front but not the rear- are better than electronics in every way. During the hillclimb was a perfect example where locking the front diff and not the rear would have pulled the truck straight up the hill, rather than wildly snaking around.
It's not an example of old tech being better than new tech, but... okay, it is an example of that. 100 percent.
Off road modes have their place, but when it gets tough, mechanical solutions are just SO much better than electronics.
All down to tyres IMHO. I’ve got the Falken Wildpeaks on my D4 and they have been excellent despite not looking much.
Congratulations for the ranch now you guys have you own play ground to keep the fun .
The Defender is an
over priced tech toy.
Tundra is a game changer
The old Ford is the king .
Lol everyone in the comments is confused - “where is the car”?? Car = unibody SUV (Defender)… not a truck-based body-on-frame SUV (e.g., 4Runner)…
Congratulations TFL on TFL RANCH 🥳🥳 can’t wait to see more from here
i swear i love the chemistry between these two... its like they went school together
The defender : First run.He was slipping until he dug down deep enough to hit the solid ground , thats when he got more traction to be able to take off.That is what you should do before you start a run on snow, check how deep the snow is and if you can get traction on the actual solid dirt under the snow.If its too deep then you get high centered and game over.
The Tundra being reliable is the best part. We can't say the same for the Land Rover.
I think alot of Tundras reliability just went away by switching from the proven 5.7 to turbo's,
Turbo's put way to much pressure in these engines for long jevity, but we'll just have to wait & see. But the ford's 3.5 is only good for 80,000 to 150,000 before major problems can & have shown itself.
The only thing you can rely on with a Toyota is frame replacements every 3 years
@@scottyellis3442 Are you seriously saying that because Ford's engine is unreliable so will the new Tundra's engine? Toyota has been building reliable turbo engines for decades. Furthermore the engine used in the Tundra is being used in the GR Hilux race pickup in the Dakar rally. Toyota is doing this to prove the engine is extremely durable and reliable.
I hope you're right & you probably are, I'm just old & don't like change. LOL
I've literally seen a Land Rover broken down in the middle of the road with the hood up!! I would never buy one. My Toyota has 160k and has never visited the shop other than regular maintenance 🥰
I'm so happy my new truck has no modes. Just 4WD HI/LO, locking diff and traction control on or off.
Love these kinds of vids, better tyres would help all though
I have conducted test entering my garage. It’s a slight incline. Two trucks . BOTH with studded tires. My 2015 Tundra and a ZR2 with lockers . And if there is ice under the snow good luck ! A slight angle and snow/ ice your done with out momentum.
2:44...nooooo. Noobie mistake (I've made it also:). Snow mode is for slippery surfaces: icy/snowy road etc. It is very heavy on traction control and cuts down engine. Starts in 3rd gear etc. For deep snow sand or mud mode are the best.
Normally I love these types of videos from you guys but for this one to be meaningful you really need the same tires on both. That would be really interesting to watch!
It both sets of tires were AT and snow rated so they had to have meet the same basic requirements to get that rating. It wasn’t like one vehicle had all season tires vs the he other.
Great comparo guys! That old Ford made all the new tech look less capable with the exception of the Snow Nuts (because you couldn't get enough wheel spin?). Welcome Tumbleweed Ranch to the TFL family.
TFL/Roach Chaser bought a ranch? That's good news, as it means you have a place to store vehicles and test vehicles, you can register said vehicles there and avoid all the emissions garbage you had to deal with in boulder, and that the company had a great 2021 in order to be able to afford the ranch to begin with. Just good news all around.
Also, another benefit is you get to name everything, like Nathan's Crack or Sniper Hill. I would imagine anyone who has ever seen a TFL vid had to chuckle at least a little bit with the Nathan's Crack name. Those of us who watch a lot of TFL burst out in laughter every single time you mentioned it, too. In order to make it up to Nathan, you should name the largest hill on the property 'Nathan's Bicep' because his bicep has to be at least as big as his crack.
Sorry, didn't get the..."Land Rover is now a CAR"...memo.
I am a Toyota guy but I think Traction mode on the Defender was on all the time. That's why breaks were hitting all the time and pads are smoking.. select the right mode. This is a land rover for god sake
If your going to test shouldnt both vehicles have the same tires, and one not go in the others tracks?
Interesting how the Tundra has an actual "deep snow", and not merely a "snow" mode.
Need to do a video on tires
To many people are fooled by the snowflake/mountain peak as if that makes them a dedicated winter tires (far from it)
That’s the literal regulatory standard for what a snow tire is. Obviously it can be exceeded, but that’s the minimum required grip before traction devices need to be used. Just like summer performance tires, some are dramatically better than others.
The diff lock makes a hell of a difference too, and definitely the Tundra’s deep snow mode seems better suited.
It seems like crossover’s the key when you get them going is not to stop keep your foot into it when you stop full they have a super hard time getting going
The Defender loves u-turns. You have to love the old Ford,still kicking.
This was really all about the tires. The Defender had the clearance and the horsepower to spin all 4 wheels.
Please tell us more about the Ranch, congrats on the purchase.
a foot of snow you would be pushing it with the bumper it maybe touches of the rim . so 4 inches of snow ?
Nathan’s crack 🤣 best name of all the obstacles ever lol
I kept waiting for the car….. but good SUV vs truck video.
That looked like fun. Oldies are Goldies yet again!
Commentors talking about tires, but both on AT Winter tires. Same basic tires for this type of comparison. My XJ in ATs hasn’t been stuck on steep snow climbs or muddy/snow slop. Modern tech just hasn’t brought enough to the table for the conditions. Tech is for everyday driving on the road, that’s its stand out time
Nathan’s crack is the best obstacle course you have done !
GREAT video Guys you guys are awesome Thanks !!!!God Bless!!!
Nice video. My best friend had that same old Ford in 2 WD. He dropped a 454 in it.
Some things I learned from years of off-roading. Tire tread styles make a HUGE difference. Hi range is better than low for snow. On average trucks did not do as well as SUVs because rear ends are so light.
Would be cool to see a test like this and include a Subaru. I’ve had them and they are amazing in snow!
Not only tread but also things like tire pressure and material. Winter tires usually are softer material for instance. Tire pressure makes a massive difference in anything soft.
Depends on the snow conditions I guess out on a frozen lake with deep snow 4low works better more torque at lower rpm’s = less wheel spin when taking off because it starts crawling with less throttle and doesn’t dig down
That old school Ford did great 👍
Gotta hit nathans Crack hard and fast! Didn't realize it would fit things sideways! I really thought the defender would have done better, but wow what a piece of junk! And thx for taking the ford out to show the kids how it's done, great video
SUV vs truck is what this is....
Anyone else viewing this old enough to remember when Land Rovers were awesome off-road?