I remember before I came to the Catholic faith I learned I was Protestant and figured out the definition of Protestant was to Protest, and I was like Protest? What am I protesting, and after asking that question I became Catholic a year later.
You might want to spend time reading what Scripture says and see how much of it contradicts the Dogmas and doctrines of Roman Catholicism - they are all over the place. Sadly Mr. Akin was all over the place and trying to put words in James White's mouth instead of accurately representing Roman Catholicism.
Study the Protestant Revolution. Christian men had the skin peeled from their living bodies because the simply wanted to read the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church is pure evil
Probably protesting indulgences, exaltation of Mary, Catholic Priest Pedophiles, burning Christians for translating the bible into English, etc. Stuff like that I would imagine...
@@kcwmjb I find that Protestants often have a horrible understanding of Catholicism, whereas we also read scripture and in full not cherry picking and with very well thought out correlations and details and many years of knowledge and judgement and reason behind it. There is a big difference within different Catholic churches and peoples own personal faith is their own. The major problem is Catholic, Orthodox, and many Protestants feel other Christians are brothers and sisters, and some Protestants do not. That is this guy.
That final question to catholics thing just fell so flat. It's the same old trope that we catholics are nail-biting about our salvation. I don't know anyone like that. In fact, it's such a wonderful comfort knowing confession is there for us. What a gift the sacraments are!
Lol, I have a legit question. White asserts that Protestants who actually practice "by Scripture alone" are more united than Christians who have tradition as well. Do you think that is really the case? Do you think White is probably defining away a lot of other Protestant Christians who would severely disagree with his understanding of the Bible?
I love the collegial spirit of this debate. Such attitudes do more to unite The Church than divide it. - From a humble reformed Baptist in search of Truth. ❤️🙏
@@laymanchristian1138 Likewise. From what I see, there’s a lot more Catholics exercising humility than Protestants at the moment. I’m saying this as a Protestant.
While you groom your comment, don't forget that many Muslims also affirmed how The Bible led them to Islam. If Dr. White led you to Catholicism, I am absolutely certain that you are not saved. Remember what Dr. Bart Ehrman attributed his then atheism and now agnosticism to: The Bible. Repent.
@@Merih98614 Actually no, when I became a Christian, I read the materials on Alpha and Omega Ministries website extensively. I found his coverage of Catholic issues to be biased and unconvincing. Of course, this did not singlehandedly make me a Catholic, but Reform doctrines on Sola scriptura, the atonement, the sacraments and church history as represented by Alpha and Omega helped me to the Church. I was received into Church in 2009.
Dr John Bergsma on pints with acquinas gives an excellent presentation on the biblical foundations of the priesthood. Dr Bergsma is an ex Protestant minister - and really hits a home run on the showing how the Bible teaches this
I don’t understand Mr. White’s strategy during these debates. His position during these debates is “I don’t like the Catholic Church for the following 8 reasons” even though they are talking about one subject.
And don’t worry, he’ll tell you about all his other debates he’s done too! Let’s just toss out 20 different topics that I believe are wrong about the Catholic Church, and then I’ll sit here and roll my eyes, smirk and laugh at questions, and act completely annoyed the whole time!
Sadly, my experience with Protestants is they seem to be of the entitlement of being the accuser of my Catholic faith. No matter of my deep and profound love of the Trinity, scripture, faith, hope and love, I’m not living a life of faith at least not in their eyes. May God have mercy on them.
That is how everybody feels when their faith is attacked; Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox. Just remember that these arguments are about religiously binding authority and not your personal faith in God, regardless of how you practice it. These debates are really a book selling carnival that also brings in revenue for the hosting church. Remember that church numbers are down across the country, which means church revenues are down. It reminds me of wrestle mania for the church.
@@idankpoaugustine1983 The debate road show that speaks to two opposing teams? Check out the comments. I don’t see anybody turning to Christ… 😄 Evangelising whom? Are you sure this isn’t a sporting event? I’ll stick to solid teaching from either faith thank you. At least you can digest and look up what is being taught at your leisure and see if it makes sense.
Salvation is not by works and any vague definition of belief is sufficient unto salvation, unless you are Catholic, then you are surely damned. That's like the gospel, dude. It's literally what scripture says. I mean, why do you choose to be a member of the whore of Babylon? Join pastor Jim's church with me and become truly born again.
I'm Orthodox Christian so I don't agree with Catholicism but we agree on 99.9% of things. Jimmy Akin is a gift from God. I only like James White when he is debating atheists. Jimmy Akin demolished him here. I hope Mr. White gets over his hatred for Catholics.
@@andycopeland7051 Catholics, Orthodox, and many if not most Protestants accept that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Some Protestants do not, 2 billion or so Christians are all wrong and going to hell. This is that guy.
The pastors of the flock of Protestantism pick and choose selectively which passages to twist to fit their versions of the "gospel" and what to leave out entirely or explain away. Jesus warned us of such "wolves in sheep's clothing" and that we would know them by their fruits--or lack thereof.
I've been recommended by a Protestant pastor to listen to James White. Well here I am and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. He seems uncharitable, arrogant, and deliberately obtuse through many portions of his debates. Regardless of the intellectual content of the debate, Jimmy more broadly embodies the type of person I'd want to associate with.
I'm not a fan of JW, but I started to feel sorry for him during the cross-examination when Jimmy Akin was questioning him. Jimmy did an excellent job, and I also liked his rebuttals. JW should consider retiring from debating after this one.
@@DD-bx8rb If he repents and comes to the Catholic Church, it's better for his soul. He can also bring others to the Catholic faith. I've seen Protestant converts bring many to the Catholic Church.
@@vigilantezack "The corruption of Rome" is simply an old Protestant myth aimed to damage the authority of Christ's holy Church. It is a combination of exaggeration of history, coupled with an attack on true doctrines. The Protestant threw out the most important and deepest aspects of the Faith. Pax
I know we aren't suppose to judge as Christians, but as a Protestant I have to say that Jimmy Akin won this debate by using both scripture and history to back up his claims. It looks like reading through the comment section that seems to be the consensus. I am definitely more intrigued by Catholicism now more than before... I think there's certain so called "truths" that have been ingrained in all of us, but until you're willing to listen to the 'horses mouth' from the other side (not just accept what others have told you to confirm our preconceived notions), then you're not really open to the fullness of truth. (This can be applied to all traditions of faith).... My two cents.
@robertdelisle7309 Early Christians celebrated Mass, venerated saints, obeyed apostolic succession bishops and acknowledged the papacy - meaning they were capital C Catholics.
Jimmy Akin also crushed and i mean DEMOLISHED bart Erhman in their debate on gospel reliability. He also played with “other paul” like a cat with string in their sola scriptura debate. The man is incredible and was the very first catholic i ever spoke to. I called into catholic answers to find out what they believed paul was talking about when it came to “taking the eucharist unworthily” i was still Protestant then and going to a methodist church. After the oyster crackers and grape juice at service one day i went home and was flipping through scripture and landed on that passage. I thought “was i worthy to take communion today? Was everyone in church today worthy as well?” Then i thought “how would you know?” I had already been investigating Catholicism for a time but still attended a methodist church. I decided to call in to catholic answers for the first time. Jimmy had me going back to the scripture and examining everything about the eucharist. Then what the fathers said etc… i was confirmed a year later.
Now, I am sure you now know it hurts not to be able to take communion. You can do one of two things: 1) cross your arms, and if your line is the priest. It's a blessing. Or. 2) get on your knees and say the famous prayer for those who cannot take communion by St. Alphonsus Ligouri But you do NOT take the Eucharist unworthily... it is Sacrilege. You can still go to Eucharistic Adoration also. If you have sins on your plate and again you can pray that prayer for when you can't take communion. Thanks for telling us the story of what communion is like in other churches. We only hear of what communion is like at Separated Brethern churches, temples or halls. Sometimes it is monthly we hear?? Welcome Home!
@@richardcastro1276 Yep. Im so glad to have learned! I was raised methodist and in our church communion was only 4 times a year on each quater of the year. Im not sure but i think they do it for the Wesleyan quadrilateral. Methodism is not a sola scriptura Protestant denomination. They hold to a quadrilateral ( scripture, personal experice, tradition, and logic) many methodists have never even heard of the quad. Most think theyre sola scripturists…. These days they say well scripture is the only ultimate authority but i cannot be understood without reason, personal experience, and tradition.
Tends to happen when your sister and brother in law convert to Catholicism despite his attempts to dissuade them. And then your sister goes on T.V to say he is really good at defeating strawman 😂. (Tbh I would feel the same in his place! No disrespect to the man)
So many great parts in this debate. For example, I loved the part during Jimmy’s cross examination where White essentially affirms and denies important entailments of purgatory almost simultaneously.
Holy cow, White just started his concluding statement, and he's _yet again_ reminiscing about debates he did back 30+ years ago. Guy just can't move _on._ Somebody give him an intervention ...or else a retrospective on VH1!
Why wouldn't he? Arguments for truth do not change. Not now, not 2000 years ago. He's done so many debates that he's more than free to use the past to prove points. There is no need for him to change, no need for new arguments, especially when it comes to the gospel. Cry more.
Well, maybe he brings them up because in those times he actually had the opportunity to debate some honest, orthodox Roman Catholics. And because in his opening presentation Akin basically said that the Reformation was right, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, which is the main point the reformers fought for in the XVI c.
James White really seems like the type of Christian that turns people off of Christianity. He comes across as unpleasant, uncharitable, and evasive. I have questions about some of the doctrines of Catholicism. But, there is no doubt that Jimmy Akin is a far better ambassador for faith in Christ. It's not even close.
@@Silverhailo21 how does Jesus giving Mary over into the care of John establish RC Marian dogma? Do you think Jesus saying "behold" means she has some kind of power now?
@@KnightFelfalse. We are not experientially perfect when we die, obviously. We need to be really perfect to enter heaven. Explain the change. Purgatory explains the change. White does not and cannot.
@@KnightFel The Gospel does not run counter to Purgatory. The Catholic Church could not to teach Purgatory if it was contrary. If you can point to the contradiction, then I will agree with you.
Yes it does Purgatory Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place. Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14) Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Leviticus 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lamentations 3:39) St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory. Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD. 2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:29) Indulgence We have an express example of a temporal penance given and then relaxed (an indulgence), straight from the Apostle Paul. He imposed a penance on a man who had sinned (1 Corinthians 5:3-5). Later, he relaxed it:
The fact that James White's channel of Aplha and Omega Ministries has comments turned off on all his videos, while Jimmy Akin's UA-cam channel allows comments, is all you need to know. One of these individuals isn't afraid to defend the truth. The other is afraid to face the truth. I'll let those who read this decide for themselves who those individuals are.
Actually that says nothing more than that one is 10x more popular and thus attracts more bigots. I would also want to keep _my_ channel free from insults in the comment sections.
@@ora_et_labora1095 The very fact that James White doesn't allow commentary on his videos is a telltale sign he is afraid to face the truth. He is all about finding "his truth", but he is vehemently opposed to the truth. Whether or not some people choose to use the comments section for insults is irrelevant to this fact.
"Afraid to face the truth." Does more than 180 public moderated debates. Catholics multiple times, Muslims in their own mosques, shares the gospel outside mormon temples. Yep, he's downright terrified. @CantStopTheMattWalsh
@@SoliDeoGloria237 The same could be said of Jimmy Akin. He has done plenty of moderated debates. Shared the gospel. And debated against those outside of the Christian faith. The question then becomes, why is he willing to allow dialogue on his channel, but James White isn't?
@@CantStopTheMattWalsh The real question is, why do you engage in an Ad Hominem attack against Dr. White rather than engage with his views? Proverbs 14:7
White proposed the debate topic of The meaning of peace with God, then spends his entire response attacking ancillary teachings of the Catholic Church. Why did he propose a topic if he didn’t intend to debate it?
Jimmy Akin agreed with the affirmative position, i.e. his opponents from the get go, line by line. There is no where for the debate to go except for what the RCC teaches on what those points actually mean from dogmatic, doctrinal, and practical levels, which is where the debate did end up going.
James White is obviously filled with a demonic presence and the fruits of that serpent flow forth from him anytime he speaks. It is horrifying to behold.
Because he wants to point out that it is only through the finished work of Christ according to what the Scriptures teach that we have peace with God and not these other dogmas that reduces Christ work as insufficient
Honestly I've never seen a debater lose so many debates consecutively, James White astonishes me. One of the single best Catholic Apologists it must MUST be a secret plan.
It is interesting to note that the first reading for Sunday is in Acts 9, the Church is at peace when we walk with God. And we walk with God when we do what Jesus instructs us to do. All I came away with from Mr White is "I hate the Church". What I got from Mr Akin was "Repent, Believe, be baptised; and when I sin later, Repent, Believe and get forgiven." Sounds like walking with God and being at peace with God to me.
James White will have to answer for that. Cause he kept you away from the Truth. The church was created to guard the truth and the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ. So if you were considering coming to the Truth and James White made you walk away then he’s in big trouble. 😞
White is a brilliant well schooled Protestant but he is not a charitable statesman. Unfortunately, he comes across as a bit angry, rude, and a bit arrogant.
he acts as though it is a threat to his carefully cultivated, narrow worldview. If he were to give it even the slightest "benefit of the doubt" he acts like it might unravel his whole carefully crafted narrative.
Tillich (a Protestant (Lutheran) scholar) taught that we are to "embody the truth we advocate." If attitude were the base line of our truth, then White may want to rethink the impression his version of truth leaves on his hearers. While Akin can come across as a bit condescending at times, he certainly comes closer to charity in his presentation. BTW: The host did a good job of getting out of the way, maintaining dignity of the participants and managing the event as it unfolded.
Yet not telling us at all how to have peace with God. He didn't even present the Roman Catholic position. Just parts of it that are generally in agreement.
@@KnightFel Christ Founded a United Church that canonized its Scriptures. The Devil inspired protestants to twist those scriptures to justify a thousand sub-cults that agree on very little other than their false representation of Christ's actual Church. Seems pretty straightforward to anyone not indoctrinated by these man-made cults' leaders.
@@Jrce11 Not at all brother. He spoke about maybe 10% of Roman Catholic Salvation. It's WAY more complicated and WAY off from the biblical gospel than he's saying. Be real. The Roman Catholic gospel is depressing and terrifying. Knowing your heart and your mind, the mortal sins of in thought one commits often, the breaking of the greatest commandment everyday, yeah, it's depressing. There is no peace in the Roman gospel.
White has an annoying tactic of throwing out Greek words as if just saying the word is supposed to reveal some clarification. In reality, the tactic is supposed to convince the audience of White’s authority and therefore enhance his credibility. It is a bad debate tactic. Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument.
"Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument" Original Languages matter in this debate and Jimmy Akin cannot exegete. Also Roman Catholicism is false: ua-cam.com/video/UCbBUQztE6M/v-deo.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
@@samuelaguilar9668Make a list of timestamps of the number of times that James White uses a Greek word. Identify which of those times describes the context meaningfully as part of an argument relevant to the proposition. It should be easy enough to figure out whether the top level comment is correct or whether it is just speaking out of its own impressions.
@@samuelaguilar9668have you ever tried thinking for yourself? It's pretty powerful stuff. At least if you're going to submit your will in obedience, don't do it on behalf of an ego like James White's.
One of the problems i find with protestantism is that they question and reject apostolic siccession, papacy and magisterium… and yet, they want all of those to reside in one person, in the person of the protestant pastor and each protestant followers.
“One of the problems I find with Protestantism is this thing that no Protestant argues for” the scripture alone is the infallible authority. The church is also an authority in the life of a Protestant, but isn’t infallible. Protestant pastors aren’t popes. We follow the apostles by following their teachings as communicated through scripture.
@@weselo8305Catholics are not that different, we also interpret the bible individually, however, when it comes to critical things such as baptism, how do we decide who interprets it correctly?
@@zeegovna5109 Ultimately on tough questions, you read the Word, listen to trusted people who have looked into it on different sides, and decide which position better aligns with the Word. There is no reason to think we have a single infallible interpreter (other than Scripture itself interpreting itself)
@@weselo8305but scripture itself doesn’t interpret itself, thats why i brought up baptism. I trust my protestant friend on many things, but he doesnt believe the same as me on baptism
James White: "It's obvious if you read the Bible that my minority, niche theology that excludes all apostolic and most protestant churches, is the only possible interpretation."
@@westb1028 There are contradictory ideas expressed in the NT. Romans 2:5-11. We are judged by deeds. That's the same Paul that y'all quote about saved by faith alone.
It was a 16th century reinterpretation, that no one before Hus ever held, and that very few protestant sects can fully agree on even to this day. It is almost like, personal interpretation of the Bible without the wisdom of the Majesterium and guidance of the Holy Spirit leads to error and faction.
It is not disrespectful. When you say catholic it can mean greek-catholic but with Rome it is specified. As with Francis he leaves only the title out. By your logic we are disrespecting Jesus every time we say Jesus instead of Jesus Christ.
@@catholictruth102 The Reformed view is not the same thing as Once Saved Always Saved. The Westminster Confession has an entire chapter on the perseverance of the saints.
Akin was sparky throughout the debate. Secondly, he never addressed the actual Reformed and Scriptural position. He kept using strawman fallacies. Furthermore, the Bible does teach Sola scriptura many times over. Westminster Confession 1:6. By good and necessary consequence. Additionally, the phrase "word of God" is l9gically deduced from Scripture just as the word Trinity does not occur in the text but is perfectly a biblical term.
I recommend to all who speak Spanish to watch the best apologist by far, his name is Padre Luis Toro. I have not seen anybody else debate as clearly as him using the bible. He is phenomenal, truly gifted and has helped many protestants return to the Catholic faith. I don't know if any of his debates have been translated to English, maybe someone out there can do this if allowed!
If you're reading this, watch Dr. White's debate against Trent Horn on eternal security. That debate, along with the Pat Madrid vs James White debate on Sola Scriptura is what opened my eyes to the truth of Catholicism, having watched both as a Baptist.
Jimmy is astoundingly good. James was baffled, he didn't know how to deal with Jimmy's presentation at all cross x that he didn't understand what was going on.
Question to James White: "Do you agree that 2+2=4?" James White: "Yes" Question to James White: "Do you agree that to arrive at the number 4 from adding two numbers together, that a *calculation* must have taken place?" James White: "No"
Hey admin, I think you've accidentally mislabeled your video. I've been an admin for my church's UA-cam page and made the same mistake, all good hehehe.
What is so sad about this debate is that James White simply is not looking for common ground on which to build a dialogue, but seemingly just wants to prove he is right and the Catholic Church is wrong. His entire religion is to prove the Catholic Church wrong. It is sad that he says "faith in love", but truly does not know love. And if one does not know love then he does not know God.
Quite the assumption to say he isn't loving. Listen to his arguments, don't judge him for his tone during a debate. Debates aren't for finding common ground
If you believe his arguments to be true that's all right with me. Every person comes to the Truth on their own path. Yet, it is how we behave on that path that makes us Christian.
of course he wants to prove he is right, anything else wouldn't be loving. if you know someone's house is on fire, you should with all your might tell that person that his house is on fire and that he should get out now..
I'd have to agree to an extent. I especially don't like the way he uses Roman-Catholic as an epithet, even though he's been politely corrected numerous times on the nomenclature.
White should have selected a different topic as he's all over the map - wanting to know about: the Sacraments, the role of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces which come to us ultimately from Jesus' death on the Cross, the Holy Mass, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc. If White wanted to talk about that we'd all be happy to listen, but he should have selected a different topic or add more nights to allow for additional topics.
As a Protestant for over 60 years, I have now moved even closer to converting to Catholicism after listening to this debate. Mr White's obvious distain for Catholics and his arrogance (sir, you need not constantly make reference to how many times you have debated Catholics) only distracts from his arguments. If you can not present your position w/out constantly attacking your opponents, your argument appears weak. During this debate, it was weak. Thank you Mr Akin!
I pray all who attended becomes catholic because of this. Jimmy is great at planting seeds and I hope everyone does their research and see the truth of the one true apostolic faith. Come on everyone. Jesus prayed for us all to be one church. Stop being prideful or ignorant about the faith. It’s time we all come back to Mass and worship Jesus our Lord the way we were meant to. God bless.
@ChristIsLord7, didn't you pay any attention to this debate? Especially, the opening statement? Hebrews clearly states that Christ offered Himself once for all time at the cross. It doesn't have to be repeated ever again. There's no need for a Re-Presentation which is actually a Re-sacrifice every Sunday. Yet the Roman Church blasphemes by doing this.
I pray that lost papists will be converted and regenerated by the Holy Spirit as they hear the Scriptures expounded. All papists are lost, including Akin.
Some thoughts from a former Protestant... A) James White argues that "scripture" was fixed at the death of the last apostle, yet the New Testament didn't come into being until the FOURTH century. It may be true that the actual writings included in the New Testament were written when White argues that they were written, but there were MANY other writings which could have been included in the New Testament, but were NOT included. And the authority that decided which to include or not include was the Catholic Church at various councils in the 4th Century. So James White must depend on Catholic Church councils and their decisions as to what to include or not include in the canon to even HAVE a New Testament scripture. In this sense, like most Protestants, James White is more Catholic than he thinks he is, because he depends on the Catholic Church in order to even HAVE New Testament scripture. B) When did the first Christian argue that the Eucharist was simply a symbol and who was the person who came up with this doctrine? The person who originally came up with this doctrine was Ulrich Zwingli who lived from January 1, 1484 to October 11, 1531. While not all Protestant churches believe this doctrine, most do believe it. The Protestant position is therefore that from Jesus in the 1st Century to the 16th Century the church was WRONG, but Zwingli got it right. Most Protestants argue that Jesus (in the 6th chapter of the Gospel of John) was speaking figuratively when he spoke about eating his body and drinking his blood. However, it appears that the earliest Christians took Jesus to be speaking literally, NOT figuratively. St. Ignatius, who lived from around A.D. 50-117, was the Bishop of Antioch and a martyr during the persecution of the Roman Emperor Trajan (A.D. 98-117). It is generally held that he was a student of the apostle John, the disciple “whom Jesus loved,” and he was appointed the third bishop of Antioch by the apostle Peter himself. While being led to his death he wrote letters to various churches in which he said... “They [the Docetists] hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised.” He even goes on to emphasize that, “Consequently those who wrangle and dispute God’s gift [of the Eucharist] face death.” Thus, Ignatius not only warned against this false belief-his tone implies that the True Presence was already an assumed belief for the Christians at the time, and that acceptance of this belief was imperative. The question was merely how to treat those heretics who did not believe this in union with the Church. Justin Martyr was killed, along with six other Christians, by the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius (A.D. 161-180) for refusing to sacrifice to the Roman gods. He said... "This food we call Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Saviour being incarnate by God’s word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus." These two early church fathers exemplify the doctrine of the "True Presence" which Catholics still believe, but which has been rejected by many Protestants starting with Zwingli in the 16th Century. C) Christ and his apostles taught that the church should be ONE with no divisions, yet today there are thousands of different denominations which interpret the scripture differently from one another. This process began with the Orthodox eastern Churches splitting off from the Catholic church about 1,000 years after Christ, then this process continued when Luther split off hundreds of years later. The Church warned Luther that this process would not end with him, but it would continue to split, which in fact it has indeed done. D) While many Christians and different denominations caste out demons, it is definitely a cliché that when you need a good exorcist, you call the professionals. You call the Catholics. I found it funny but also informative that the late Joan Rivers talked about this fact before she died. In an interview, she talked about how her house seemed to be haunted, so she called a friend who was a Catholic priest to deal with it. When the interviewer pointed out that Joan was Jewish, she replied that the Catholics were "good at that stuff." While her comment was funny, it is also true. And let's all remember that Satan does not caste out Satan. I'm an artist and here is one of my favorite shirt designs on this topic... www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Got-Demons-by-scubalasvegas/93016330.IJ6L0 Why The Protestant Reformation Was Worse Than You Thought... ua-cam.com/video/NU8bsqMHwUE/v-deo.html The Real Presence of the Eucharist in the Early Church... clarifyingcatholicism.org/articles/the-real-presence-of-the-eucharist-in-the-early-church/ Bone-Chilling Interview with a Real-Life Exorcist (Fr. Vince Lampert)... ua-cam.com/video/nhhi7Fk3ueI/v-deo.html Michael & The Exorcist: "I Saw Her Crawl Up A Wall" | Fr. Dan Reehil... ua-cam.com/video/cFIKpoIt4aE/v-deo.html Vatican exorcist reveals his most haunting experiences | A Current Affair... ua-cam.com/video/CEg5M1Qk_M8/v-deo.html Irenaeus, Doctor of Unity... www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/irenaeus-doctor-of-unity. Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy... www.amazon.com/Pope-Fiction-Answers-Misconceptions-Papacy/dp/0964261006
Surprised By Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic... www.amazon.com/Surprised-Truth-Converts-Biblical-Historical/dp/0964261081/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=0964261081&psc=1
30:05 Yes these quotes are verbatim although quoted from different sections of the Cathecism: 571 Comes from Nicenean Creed, which we repeat at almost all masses. All days of the year, throughout the world in different languages. 571 is under the section of the Creed which is what we believe stated in the Creed about the Son. Oh and there is a reference *Hebrews 9:26* 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 1545 appears in the Sacraments-Service (mass) section under heading " The one prieshood of Christ" Ref, Hebrews 8:4 and St. Thomas Aquinas. 2771 This is related to how we pray, this is in the Our Father prayer. But to understand it all you'd have to read entries 2767 to 2776... with several bible verses referenced. This whole section is beautiful. I pray the Our Father several times daily. Good to know the Church's details on this prayer.
Remember, James White is the best Protestantism has to offer. Catholicism simply is too strong an argument to defeat. I was in the Calvinist cult and upon experiencing God, He led me to His church - the Catholic Church that has remained in succession from the first century till today. Whereas the Protestants came 16 centuries later and drastically changed the faith and made a new religion - not only removing 7 books of the Bible that they disagreed with, but changing the faith itself. It has divided Christendom and divided it into oblivion. God tells Satan is the divider. God tells us He is not the author of confusion.
I am just now coming out of the reformed world, after 20 years. Catholicism just makes more sense. When I finally stopped to think about why there are so many divisions and endless splitting I realized sola scriptura and private judgement were the main reasons, but behind them was the rejection of the authority of the church. That’s the core of Protestantism. The result is individualism, subjectivism, and relativism. I haven’t watched the debate yet, but Akin clearly won the last one.
Paul was right, a Jewish christian can't think he has the golden ticket and God owes him something. God can't be wrestled into submission based on someone's heritage.
No matter how many times James involved in debates with the Catholic apologists and got bashed in his fallible views as a former Catholic he is now rejecting as a result of non dissolution of his marriage, he remains so hateful and everyword he speaks is wasteful and non sense because these are alll false misinterpretations of the Catholics Bible. As a protestant myself, James has lost all these debates and his credibility he has ever had. Its not how fluent in speaking his personal ideas or a Dr before his name but why he left the Catholic Church in the first place that matters. To me, I would never want to accept his views for he had already disobeyed the original Church he should have remained loyal to until his death. The Catholic Church as the world all know is the Church Jesus established so everyone like myself is journeying to join that true Church by undergoing research but not to weaponise people by the earthly wisdom to dogde the truth. 😅
Sorry Mary never heard a prayer from anyone so you're wasting your time. Think about it she would 1. have to be omnipresent 2. all knowing [omnipresent 3 all powerful to be able to answer prayer, [omnipotent] Attributes that belong to God alone.
Dear@@joecannes2421, think about it -- Jesus declared that those who are dead in the world are alive in Heaven -- "The Lord is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Mark 12:27 and Luke 20:38) "Death has been swallowed up in victory..." (1 Corinthians 15:54-56) And Jesus gave Mary to be mother to His beloved disciple (John 19:26-27) So she is mother to each one of us who call Jesus our brother. And Jesus gave John a Revelation which refers to this fact (Revelation 12:17) She does not need to be omniscient (I think that is the word you meant, rather than "omnipresent." It's a little different) to know what her millions of children say to her. She only needs the gift of God to be mother to us all. She does not need to be omnipotent to be one of the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1), any more than you or I need to be omnipotent to have our prayers answered. Please learn what the Catholic Church teaches, and try not to think of Catholics as complete idiots. We are Christians, trying to be better Christians all the time.
I think the biggest frustration for JW and every protestant Christian, is that if Jimmy is telling the truth, there has never been a public acknowledgement of the Catholic church's change in perspective or acceptance of Luther/Calvin as being within the realm of orthodoxy, nor does Jimmy acknowledge such a change has taken place. Because to do so would show the church to be fallible, which Roman Catholicism cannot allow since it is the highest authority on truth and doctrine. Do not be confused, the only reason we have a fractured church today is because popes and the magesterium could not humble themselves and repent of their overreach and adding to the Scriptures. Luther et al did not set out to start a new thing, they desired the once for all continual church to repent and reform its teachings to the Scriptures, just like Pope Gregory had done 500 years earlier. But the greed of men and just for power was and remains too intoxicating. And now that the ketchup is out of the bottle, apologists like Jimmy simply gloss over these real grievances and deny the differences ever existed.
Thanks to both debators for their time. I do notice a prevalence in the comments claiming James "lost" yet a suspicious lack of addressing the disagreement which would have made him "lose"
they never give a reason, "just James lost the debate. I'm a stronger catholic because of him" its the same old same old with theological debates. consistency is key and White is very consistent in his arguments. that's the problem people have with him.
Finally done with both. Ya James White won this, but thats partly because Catholic answers wasnt playing. As James said it really was a presentation on their part. Kind of underhanded, but either way was fun to watch. James White did a good job, and i say this as a Catholic convert
@@EruIluvatar5 I mean, then don't agree to a "debate". And Catholic Apologists have their same sticking points they just recycle. There is only so much each side has at this point, but I do like the ecumenical spirit of Jimmy's approach I think he is getting older and putting fourth.... "Hey the Church has changed in some of these areas, if you want to come aboard come aboard"
Jimmy showed clarity of mind, charity and joy. James showed, unfortunately; pettiness, paranoia, and as always, a strict reliance on his understanding of Scripture as absolute truth, and nothing else. But nothing new here.
Imagine spending decades arguing with people and still not understanding the faith you are arguing for, that unfortunately is James White. I think he means well, he’s just so angry that it makes it hard to tell.
I don’t think he understands his opposition either. And yes, he comes off as so very angry. The body language, the eye rolls, the smirks. It’s extremely unsettling
@@gc3563 Yeah he does understand the opposition. The only ones claiming that he doesn't understand Roman Catholicism are youtube apologist. None of his opponents on the stage have claimed that his understanding is incorrect. So your comment means nothing.
@@KnightFel if my comment means nothing, and that’s fine it’s just my opinion, then same goes to you. You are entitled to your opinion as well, but your comment means nothing.
James makes Jesus out to be liar and undependable, no less that he did NOT lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Jesus made numerous statements about his Church, nearly 2000 years before James came along: Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18) Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15) Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10) *Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13) Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20) Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
@@clemenaparente9773 True This: James disagrees with ALL kinds of protestant denominations - and Sola Scriptura gives him no authority to say his fallible interpretation of scripture is right, and they wrong.
"If you wish to persuade and convince me without fail: first be able think my thoughts inside your mind, second feel my feelings as someone in my circumstances would, and third, produce my my words but through your voice." Marcus Tullius Cicero
I became Catholic after 30 ish years evangelical. Bad theology =bad marriage. Grateful things have improved after we both became Catholic. Praying for James White and his marriage.
@@sarahd5341 Hi, Sarah. You do realise, do you not, that Catholicism claims that Paul was and is Catholic, that Galatians is a Catholic book, that Galatians is inspired, and that it was the Catholic Church which included Galatians in the canon of inspired books, so that Galatians is in the Bible? I'm not here asking you to agree with the Church's claims, but just to recognise that the Church understands Galatians to be part of God's revelation and so part of His patrimony to the Church. Since the Church holds that God is one, and that truth is one, whatever the Church holds about the question of salvation, of justification, of the relationship between faith and works has to be compatible with what Paul taught the Galatians and wrote to them in his letter. Again, I'm not asking you to agree that the Church's doctrine on these matters is compatible with Galatians, but only that She understand that it is compatible. The question then is, what does the Church understand about these matters, and about what Paul taught the Galatians, which allows Her to think that they work well together? Clearly what Protestants claim the Church reaches is not compatible with what Protestants claim Paul teaches the Galatians, so there is a fundamental disagreement between Catholic and Protestant about what the Church teaches on these matters and what Protestants claim the Church teaches about these matters. Since it is the Church teaching about what She teaches about these matters, the reasonable supposition is that Protestant claims about Catholic teachings are mistaken.
Where the Bishop appears there let the people be. Just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. St. Ignatius of Antioch. 107 AD 🍷🍞🔑⛪️📿✝️📖📝🕊🫶🏻🔥😇
James you are right. The. Blessed man is just like paul who in acts was baptized calling on his name for the washing away of his sin. Peter says baptism now saves you! So yes the free gift of initial justification is a free gift. But as is said by Paul and Jesus you must persevere in the faith to be saved. Faith without works is dead (james) . You are his Workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works,that you should walk in them. Ephesians.10
There's no such thing as "initial justification." Also, keep reading the verse on baptism. You all always stop there. Proof texting is useless. Your quotation on Ephesians 2: 8-10 is perfeclty consistent with reformed theology. You are saved by faith alone, not faith + works. Works comes after faith, that's why you're saved for, that's what you're created for, and not works to prove to God anything, but for your neighbor and to glorify God. Rome says no, you need works along with faith to increase in justification, which is utterly false. You proved Dr. White's point.
Baptism saves in the same way the Ark saved Noah. It does not impart salvation, only the death of Christ does that. And it does that by grace through faith. Regeneration doesn’t even save you, even if baptism did regenerate you, which it does not. The only thing that gives salvation is God’s grace, and we can only receive that grace through faith.
@@fuelmotive8716baptism is only salvific because of God obviously, but for you to say baptism does not regenerate would mean you stand against the entire history of the church beginning to end. I assure you, the church was not entirely in error prior to your coming. You are not the saviour of the church.
@@Jrce11 I did not say that the entirety of Christian’s are in error “prior to my coming” nor did I say I was “the savior of the church.” There is one savior of the Church and that is Christ Jesus, and saying that I made any statements even close to that is ridiculously stupid.
@@fuelmotive8716 you are here to correct the entire church on the issue of baptism despite what nearly every single early church writer had to say on the matter, correct?
Pastor Brian Gunter speaking at 5:02-07: "The question of tonight's debate is 'How does one find peace with God'"? Response: Jesus speaking to His disciples at the Last Supper in John 14: 27 (NASB): “Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful." Answer: Likewise, wouldn't Christians find this gift of peace from Jesus at their own commemoration of His Last Supper?
If you want to stay Protestant, you throw out some of the Sacraments like marriage, for example. That puts marriage into a legal communion rather than a holy union instituted by G_d which opens it up to all sorts of attacks against the family such as birth control, abortion, divorce, etc.
@@Luke-ms5hn Marriage is not a sacrament. It is a covenant between a man and a woman and Almighty God. What GOD hath joined together let NO MAN or WOMAN put asunder. Not even the papists have the authority to divorce or annul a covenant between God and a man and woman.
James W. NEVER answered the question: “WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE DOCTRINE SOLA SCRIPTURA?” He deflected to different topics because… he knows it’s not written. The balanced approach is Both Oral Tradition through the apostles AND scripture.
@@brycegladwin8087 that is where our fundamental difference lies and I am surprised James, did not address this emphatically! Protestantd believe no amount of human effort can ever earn you anything heavenwards. All our best are as good as worthless rugs (Isaiah 64:6 Philippians 3:7-9) That is why you will never hear of protestants canonising anyone as a saint. Our so called 'saintliness' look good when compared to other human beings, with also a lot of secret sins being unknown, but before the Holy presence of God no creature is fit to stand guiltless(Romans 3:23). So to answer Jimmy's question, the Lord made it clear he who has the son has life(1 John 5:12) and Christ's imputed righteousness is enough to get you into heaven, anytime any day! (Romans 5:1-2 Romans 10:4,13).
Regardless of JW's character (as a protestant, I am not a fan of his antics), he DID actually bring up some good arguments and points, which unfortunately, we weren't able to hear more on. This was my first time hearing Jimmy Akin and I could tell he is well-educated. I like how he pointed out the agreements between Catholicism and Protestantism. I still don't think his arguments were enough to invalidate Sola Scriptura. Personally, I would like to hear a debate on the veneration of Mary. I don't think JW bringing that up took away from the topic. I took it as simply pointing out how that tradition wasn't derived from the apostles. Regardless of who "won", I learned a lot from this debate. I hope there are more like this in the near future.
@filippguitar Sounds like you believe in Sola Sctriptura. That is a false protestant teaching. Where in the Bible does it teach that Truth can only be found in the Bible? You need to read the writings of the early Church Father's to expand your understanding of faith. The Early Church Father's who walked with the Apostles, not Martin Luther or any other denomination that came over a thousand years later.
An elementary school Catholic catechism student could have told Dr White that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was once and for all time. Dr White just doesn’t understand Catholic teaching. Maybe someday he’ll actually put aside his assumptions and honestly listen. I pray for his conversion.
Unfortunately, this debate didnt always stay focused on the main Protestant Catholic divides, as large parts of this debate were on issues Protestants dont even agree on , such as eternal security, and Calvinism. This would have been better focusing on Mary, the mass, papal infallibikity, Purgatory, role of the Priesthood, Sola Scriptura, and THE GOSPEL. No way around it, if there was an apocalypse tomorrow, and humanity started over with just a Bible, the Catholic church would never be reconstructed in its current form, as its been cobbled together over the centuries. Couldnt happen. Conversely, a new church would much more closely resemble the EARLY church, which is the non reformed, Protestant view.
Well yeah, if you throw out the actual people who led the church over the centuries and just boiled everything down to the Gospel, it's going to be different. That's not how the Church functions tho, not in the first century and not in any after.
The debate was done respectfully, though there was not so much new content as I have listened to so many such debates before. Chances of converting either way based on such debates is minimal, but useful FIY only. To claim that either one won the debate is not sensible because we are different religions and what seems beautiful to the other is repugnant to the other. Ultimately, preaching of the gospel is the most effective means of wining souls to the Lord and the Spirit of God makes conversions happen using the seed sown through the gospel! Even proud hearts get convicted and yield to the truth!
Not sure what debate everyone was watching...the debate is over at the 1:04:44 mark when Akin says he would lose his salvation when committing a mortal sin. That is clearly not true in scripture and White clearly points this out. That completely nullifies the finished work of Jesus Christ for the believer which covers all sins, past, present and future.
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” Galatians 6:7-8 David says blessed is the man whose sins are covered and the man to whom God will not impute sin, but God clearly imputed the serious sin of adultery and murder because his child had to die, isn’t that correct? We are not forgiven for all future sins I don’t know where you get that.
He may of had to borrow one. Who knows ..he's traveling. Better a tad too big than too small. 💕🌷 God Bless Dr James White....he's an incredible Debator, full of wisdom. ✝️
There is no peace in Calvinism, because like White has said before it is impossible to know who the “Elect” are who are saved no matter what. You can never be at peace as a Calvinist because even if you do all you can to love Jesus and live a faithful life, if you’re not pre-ordained to be Elect, then you’re damned. Calvinists believe in predestination so you’re saved whether you desire to be or not, or you’re damned whether you desire to be or not.
@@billmartin3561 I mean, you can't have the gospel without the blessed man. Are you really mocking that message? Yikes, big yikes. Very sad. There is no hope if you are not the blessed man. It's incredibly sad how many people in the comments hate the gospel.
@@KnightFel it really is. I am astounded. They gloat over what will be their own damnation. Every idle word of it. If they really thought we were lost, why would they take such an attitude toward us? I honestly hope none of them are lost but I don't think they return the sentiment. It's rather shocking to me, to be honest
I saw an angry, arrogant, pridefully proposed account of scripture with a dizzying amount of circular logic, lobbing attack after attack on his opponent… And then there was Jimmy Akin. All of the Catholic doctrinal issues James White mentions taking issue with are soundly defensible by way of biblical teaching, including Marian devotion as our intercessor (notice: NOT Marian worship).
If James White (or any baptist) want to evangelize Catholics, as was the topic of his talk the next night, one needs to ask at a minimum, and answer the following questions to Catholics: - Show who in the first 1,500 years of Christianity interpreted scripture as you do, that the bread and wine in the bread of life discourse are symbolic or figurative only. - Explain how Christendom error'd so fast, so universally on this point? - Explain why one should follow the fallible gospel of JW and not all of Christendom for those first 1,000 plus years? - Explain how Jesus was undependable and that he lied when he said that he would lead his church to ALL truth? - Explain how could his Church have errored with his promise in place (so too, the Church is the pillar and bulwark of TRUTH) - Is Jesus is not powerful enough nor faithful enough to mean what he said? - Admit that you are fallible - Admit that since you are fallible, you could be in error with your personal and fallible interpretation of scripture, and the Catholic Church right on the nature of the Eucharist. - Explain how it is that you trust that your New Testament canon is right, when it was decided by the 4th c Catholic Church, Catholic Bishops who would disagree with your interpretation of scripture repeatedly, no less on the Eucharist. - Explain how it is that you believe your Old Testament is right, when those 4th c Bishops said it was 46 writings? - Explain how is it that you trust them to get the New Testament right, yet they error'd on the Old Testament - and they ALL celebrated the Mass which you reject? (note, there were no protestant churches at the time) _So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him_
I honestly don't get the comments on this one, everyone is talking about James Whites tone, trying to find common ground and being charitable. First its a debate we want clash to see the clash of ideas we don't want common ground where equivications make it impossible to understand the differences (Something Jimmy Akin did) Second if you want to be charitable, actually do a rebuttle. Jimmy avoided twice doing a rebuttle and just did his own presentation ignoring his opponent on purpose how is that charitable. Siting that James White did a gish gallop. When all he was trying to do was to show where the ideas clashed by the numerous differences in the outcomes of the doctrines, so that there could be meaningful clash. And if anyone has watched a number of James Whites debates you'll see how he deals with arguments like that against him. He addressed them shortly and quickly, rather than ignoring his opponent and poisoning the well accusing him of bad behaviour (clashing with the man rather than the idieas). Third critisising catholic teachings is fair game in a debate, its not attacking the man, and it shows the outcome of the ideas. The only question you need to ask is "Are the ideas related to peace with God?" I feel like everyone in the comments are a bunch of people who came to watch a soccer game and are complaining that one side is kicking the ball, while the other one is trying to be nice to the ball. You came to watch soccer the ball is going to get kicked. - The problem comes when you kick the man. It is loving to disagree vigorously and openly because that is the correct way. It is deceitful to conceal disagreement behind a pretense of good manners. Christians have to start learning the difference between being nice and being loving.
Incorrect. How about you watch Jimmy Akin's debate debrief and get a better picture of what the debate was supposed to be. White is a dishonest debater.
I remember before I came to the Catholic faith I learned I was Protestant and figured out the definition of Protestant was to Protest, and I was like Protest? What am I protesting, and after asking that question I became Catholic a year later.
Shallow reasoning and a sound bite caused you to become roman catholic?
You might want to spend time reading what Scripture says and see how much of it contradicts the Dogmas and doctrines of Roman Catholicism - they are all over the place.
Sadly Mr. Akin was all over the place and trying to put words in James White's mouth instead of accurately representing Roman Catholicism.
Study the Protestant Revolution. Christian men had the skin peeled from their living bodies because the simply wanted to read the Bible. The Roman Catholic Church is pure evil
Probably protesting indulgences, exaltation of Mary, Catholic Priest Pedophiles, burning Christians for translating the bible into English, etc. Stuff like that I would imagine...
@@kcwmjb I find that Protestants often have a horrible understanding of Catholicism, whereas we also read scripture and in full not cherry picking and with very well thought out correlations and details and many years of knowledge and judgement and reason behind it. There is a big difference within different Catholic churches and peoples own personal faith is their own. The major problem is Catholic, Orthodox, and many Protestants feel other Christians are brothers and sisters, and some Protestants do not. That is this guy.
I like that the editor edited out the dead air whenever someone goes up to the podium. It made the video have better pacing.
Jimmy's cross-examination of James was BRUTAL. I kept looking around for a referee to stop the fight.
FUNNY BRO !!!
That final question to catholics thing just fell so flat. It's the same old trope that we catholics are nail-biting about our salvation. I don't know anyone like that. In fact, it's such a wonderful comfort knowing confession is there for us. What a gift the sacraments are!
Imagine being sick in the hospital and James White is your chaplain 🤣
“What do you mean you are suffering? All of our suffering was completed in the death of Christ, you can’t really be suffering”
🤣 nice one brother 🤣
"I truly hope you never prayed a rosary and are one of the elect."
As a Lutheran, well done Jimmy.
Lol, I have a legit question. White asserts that Protestants who actually practice "by Scripture alone" are more united than Christians who have tradition as well.
Do you think that is really the case? Do you think White is probably defining away a lot of other Protestant Christians who would severely disagree with his understanding of the Bible?
Based
Haters of the failed coup Revolt leader Martin Luther's followers follow him to the bottomless abyss
You must be one of the super liberal Lutherans that James White was talking about! 🤣
Well, done for Not addressing James White's opening statement in Hebrews and Romans.👋
As a protestant, Jimmy did exceedingly better than I could have expected. Also, love the hat and beard!!
Jimmy Akin is the man. He's our hidden gem here in the Catholic Church. A cyborg sent from the future to save the Church.
I love the collegial spirit of this debate. Such attitudes do more to unite The Church than divide it. - From a humble reformed Baptist in search of Truth. ❤️🙏
Good on you for your honesty and humility. Thanks for comment. Us Catholics can really learn from you Protestants.
@@laymanchristian1138 Likewise. From what I see, there’s a lot more Catholics exercising humility than Protestants at the moment. I’m saying this as a Protestant.
His hat and beard is like a real-life Yosemite Sam.
Mr. White helped lead me to the Catholic Church in 2004.
While you groom your comment, don't forget that many Muslims also affirmed how The Bible led them to Islam. If Dr. White led you to Catholicism, I am absolutely certain that you are not saved. Remember what Dr. Bart Ehrman attributed his then atheism and now agnosticism to: The Bible. Repent.
Oooooffff lol. Happy to have you with us!!!
Jimmy Swaggart the televangelist helped me come back to the Catholic Church in the early 90s.
That's a lie.
@@Merih98614 Actually no, when I became a Christian, I read the materials on Alpha and Omega Ministries website extensively. I found his coverage of Catholic issues to be biased and unconvincing. Of course, this did not singlehandedly make me a Catholic, but Reform doctrines on Sola scriptura, the atonement, the sacraments and church history as represented by Alpha and Omega helped me to the Church. I was received into Church in 2009.
Dr John Bergsma on pints with acquinas gives an excellent presentation on the biblical foundations of the priesthood. Dr Bergsma is an ex Protestant minister - and really hits a home run on the showing how the Bible teaches this
An integral interview in my conversion to be sure.
It was an embarrassment to scholarship.
I don’t understand Mr. White’s strategy during these debates. His position during these debates is “I don’t like the Catholic Church for the following 8 reasons” even though they are talking about one subject.
Fact. That's been his style for years and years now, he's deranged. So full of hate for Catholics and Mother Church.
He does it every time
And don’t worry, he’ll tell you about all his other debates he’s done too! Let’s just toss out 20 different topics that I believe are wrong about the Catholic Church, and then I’ll sit here and roll my eyes, smirk and laugh at questions, and act completely annoyed the whole time!
Yet you keep watching
@@LogousTo listen to Mr. Jimmy Akin or Trent Horn, yes.
Sadly, my experience with Protestants is they seem to be of the entitlement of being the accuser of my Catholic faith. No matter of my deep and profound love of the Trinity, scripture, faith, hope and love, I’m not living a life of faith at least not in their eyes. May God have mercy on them.
That is how everybody feels when their faith is attacked; Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox.
Just remember that these arguments are about religiously binding authority and not your personal faith in God, regardless of how you practice it.
These debates are really a book selling carnival that also brings in revenue for the hosting church. Remember that church numbers are down across the country, which means church revenues are down.
It reminds me of wrestle mania for the church.
@@djpodestawhat a shallow view of evangelism.
@@idankpoaugustine1983 The debate road show that speaks to two opposing teams? Check out the comments. I don’t see anybody turning to Christ… 😄 Evangelising whom? Are you sure this isn’t a sporting event?
I’ll stick to solid teaching from either faith thank you. At least you can digest and look up what is being taught at your leisure and see if it makes sense.
Salvation is not by works and any vague definition of belief is sufficient unto salvation, unless you are Catholic, then you are surely damned. That's like the gospel, dude. It's literally what scripture says. I mean, why do you choose to be a member of the whore of Babylon? Join pastor Jim's church with me and become truly born again.
May God have mercy on you.
I'm Orthodox Christian so I don't agree with Catholicism but we agree on 99.9% of things. Jimmy Akin is a gift from God. I only like James White when he is debating atheists. Jimmy Akin demolished him here. I hope Mr. White gets over his hatred for Catholics.
I don't think he hates us. He's extremely passionate
@@andycopeland7051 Catholics, Orthodox, and many if not most Protestants accept that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Some Protestants do not, 2 billion or so Christians are all wrong and going to hell. This is that guy.
Nah. White just has a grumpy demeanor
Even when talking to his friends
I changed my life because Jesus Eucharist 🙏
Faith without love is dead.
The devil believes, but he has no love for God or neighbor.
The pastors of the flock of Protestantism pick and choose selectively which passages to twist to fit their versions of the "gospel" and what to leave out entirely or explain away. Jesus warned us of such "wolves in sheep's clothing" and that we would know them by their fruits--or lack thereof.
I've been recommended by a Protestant pastor to listen to James White. Well here I am and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. He seems uncharitable, arrogant, and deliberately obtuse through many portions of his debates.
Regardless of the intellectual content of the debate, Jimmy more broadly embodies the type of person I'd want to associate with.
Same here.
Glad to hear it, brother. Much love from the Catholic Church.
Associating with people who come across as charitable doesn't save and doesn't mean his message is correct.
@@KnightFel CoPe James lost
@@KnightFelsimply saying "I believe" doesn't save you either 👍
The more i learn about history, the more i love being Catholic.
Quite the opposite for me
History has prevented me from being Romanist
I'm not a fan of JW, but I started to feel sorry for him during the cross-examination when Jimmy Akin was questioning him. Jimmy did an excellent job, and I also liked his rebuttals. JW should consider retiring from debating after this one.
I hope White continues. His debates result in the conversion of many to the Catholic Faith
@@DD-bx8rb If he repents and comes to the Catholic Church, it's better for his soul. He can also bring others to the Catholic faith. I've seen Protestant converts bring many to the Catholic Church.
@@gto2111 Yes, good point
@@DD-bx8rb The opposite seems true. He does help people see past the corruption of Rome and come back to Christ and the gospel.
@@vigilantezack "The corruption of Rome" is simply an old Protestant myth aimed to damage the authority of Christ's holy Church. It is a combination of exaggeration of history, coupled with an attack on true doctrines. The Protestant threw out the most important and deepest aspects of the Faith. Pax
I know we aren't suppose to judge as Christians, but as a Protestant I have to say that Jimmy Akin won this debate by using both scripture and history to back up his claims. It looks like reading through the comment section that seems to be the consensus. I am definitely more intrigued by Catholicism now more than before... I think there's certain so called "truths" that have been ingrained in all of us, but until you're willing to listen to the 'horses mouth' from the other side (not just accept what others have told you to confirm our preconceived notions), then you're not really open to the fullness of truth. (This can be applied to all traditions of faith).... My two cents.
Keep digging, my brother! The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth, but you must be open to receive it.
Early Christianity was Catholic.
You are well on your way. God Bless you on your journey.
@@fantasia55no, the early church was catholic not Catholic.
@robertdelisle7309 Early Christians celebrated Mass, venerated saints, obeyed apostolic succession bishops and acknowledged the papacy - meaning they were capital C Catholics.
James is very confusing. He contradicts himself. Jimmy is soo logical and intellectual in teaching of Christ and His church
Which contradiction were you referring to?
When James is confirmed into the Catholic faith some day, Jimmy will probably be his confirmation sponsor. Gonna be great
Amen🎉
Jimmy Akin also crushed and i mean DEMOLISHED bart Erhman in their debate on gospel reliability. He also played with “other paul” like a cat with string in their sola scriptura debate. The man is incredible and was the very first catholic i ever spoke to. I called into catholic answers to find out what they believed paul was talking about when it came to “taking the eucharist unworthily” i was still Protestant then and going to a methodist church. After the oyster crackers and grape juice at service one day i went home and was flipping through scripture and landed on that passage. I thought “was i worthy to take communion today? Was everyone in church today worthy as well?” Then i thought “how would you know?” I had already been investigating Catholicism for a time but still attended a methodist church. I decided to call in to catholic answers for the first time. Jimmy had me going back to the scripture and examining everything about the eucharist. Then what the fathers said etc… i was confirmed a year later.
Now, I am sure you now know it hurts not to be able to take communion. You can do one of two things:
1) cross your arms, and if your line is the priest. It's a blessing. Or.
2) get on your knees and say the famous prayer for those who cannot take communion by St. Alphonsus Ligouri
But you do NOT take the Eucharist unworthily... it is Sacrilege.
You can still go to Eucharistic Adoration also. If you have sins on your plate and again you can pray that prayer for when you can't take communion.
Thanks for telling us the story of what communion is like in other churches. We only hear of what communion is like at Separated Brethern churches, temples or halls. Sometimes it is monthly we hear??
Welcome Home!
@@richardcastro1276 Yep. Im so glad to have learned! I was raised methodist and in our church communion was only 4 times a year on each quater of the year. Im not sure but i think they do it for the Wesleyan quadrilateral. Methodism is not a sola scriptura Protestant denomination. They hold to a quadrilateral ( scripture, personal experice, tradition, and logic) many methodists have never even heard of the quad. Most think theyre sola scripturists…. These days they say well scripture is the only ultimate authority but i cannot be understood without reason, personal experience, and tradition.
Your bias is showing.
Welcome home Brother
James White knocked it and jimmy out of the park
The questions from Akin forced White to basically admit his hatred for Catholics outweighs his love for the truth.
Agree. To me, White comes across as a religious bigot.
Tends to happen when your sister and brother in law convert to Catholicism despite his attempts to dissuade them.
And then your sister goes on T.V to say he is really good at defeating strawman 😂.
(Tbh I would feel the same in his place! No disrespect to the man)
True. His hatred makes him blind, unable to see the truth.
Pride is a great enemy of truth.
This right here! ☝🏼
So many great parts in this debate. For example, I loved the part during Jimmy’s cross examination where White essentially affirms and denies important entailments of purgatory almost simultaneously.
thats because he realized that he was agreeing with the pope 😅
Holy cow, White just started his concluding statement, and he's _yet again_ reminiscing about debates he did back 30+ years ago. Guy just can't move _on._ Somebody give him an intervention ...or else a retrospective on VH1!
Did he even win those debates or something? He keeps bringing them up like he won a superbowl or something
Why wouldn't he? Arguments for truth do not change. Not now, not 2000 years ago. He's done so many debates that he's more than free to use the past to prove points. There is no need for him to change, no need for new arguments, especially when it comes to the gospel. Cry more.
@@KnightFel Insane cope
@@KnightFelcope lolz
Well, maybe he brings them up because in those times he actually had the opportunity to debate some honest, orthodox Roman Catholics. And because in his opening presentation Akin basically said that the Reformation was right, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, which is the main point the reformers fought for in the XVI c.
James White really seems like the type of Christian that turns people off of Christianity. He comes across as unpleasant, uncharitable, and evasive.
I have questions about some of the doctrines of Catholicism. But, there is no doubt that Jimmy Akin is a far better ambassador for faith in Christ.
It's not even close.
How can you be an ambassador for faith in Christ when he believes in the absurdity of the Marian dogmas?
@@KnightFelthe Marian dogmas are beautiful. You should look into them. As Christ said to St John at the cross, behold your mother.
@@KnightFel the absurdity is that you don’t believe in them.
@@KnightFelhe said ambassador, not correct doctrine. He’s simply saying he does a better job evangelizing.
@@Silverhailo21 how does Jesus giving Mary over into the care of John establish RC Marian dogma? Do you think Jesus saying "behold" means she has some kind of power now?
Wow,,, James really just refused to deal with Jimmy on purgatory… Holly cow. That’s the whole reason we are here man. Answer the questions.
He did by explaining the gospel. No need for purgatory when we have the gospel. James already exposed purgatory against Horn anyways.
@@KnightFelfalse. We are not experientially perfect when we die, obviously. We need to be really perfect to enter heaven. Explain the change. Purgatory explains the change. White does not and cannot.
@@KnightFel The Gospel does not run counter to Purgatory. The Catholic Church could not to teach Purgatory if it was contrary.
If you can point to the contradiction, then I will agree with you.
Yes it does Purgatory
Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14)
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Leviticus 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lamentations 3:39)
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Corinthians 15:29)
Indulgence We have an express example of a temporal penance given and then relaxed (an indulgence), straight from the Apostle Paul. He imposed a penance on a man who had sinned (1 Corinthians 5:3-5). Later, he relaxed it:
@@KnightFelwhere?
The fact that James White's channel of Aplha and Omega Ministries has comments turned off on all his videos, while Jimmy Akin's UA-cam channel allows comments, is all you need to know.
One of these individuals isn't afraid to defend the truth. The other is afraid to face the truth. I'll let those who read this decide for themselves who those individuals are.
Actually that says nothing more than that one is 10x more popular and thus attracts more bigots. I would also want to keep _my_ channel free from insults in the comment sections.
@@ora_et_labora1095 The very fact that James White doesn't allow commentary on his videos is a telltale sign he is afraid to face the truth. He is all about finding "his truth", but he is vehemently opposed to the truth.
Whether or not some people choose to use the comments section for insults is irrelevant to this fact.
"Afraid to face the truth." Does more than 180 public moderated debates. Catholics multiple times, Muslims in their own mosques, shares the gospel outside mormon temples. Yep, he's downright terrified. @CantStopTheMattWalsh
@@SoliDeoGloria237 The same could be said of Jimmy Akin. He has done plenty of moderated debates. Shared the gospel. And debated against those outside of the Christian faith.
The question then becomes, why is he willing to allow dialogue on his channel, but James White isn't?
@@CantStopTheMattWalsh The real question is, why do you engage in an Ad Hominem attack against Dr. White rather than engage with his views? Proverbs 14:7
White proposed the debate topic of The meaning of peace with God, then spends his entire response attacking ancillary teachings of the Catholic Church. Why did he propose a topic if he didn’t intend to debate it?
Jimmy Akin agreed with the affirmative position, i.e. his opponents from the get go, line by line. There is no where for the debate to go except for what the RCC teaches on what those points actually mean from dogmatic, doctrinal, and practical levels, which is where the debate did end up going.
That's because those ancillary teachings of the catholic church are 100% required and imposed on you and do not give you peace with God.
James White is obviously filled with a demonic presence and the fruits of that serpent flow forth from him anytime he speaks. It is horrifying to behold.
Because he wants to point out that it is only through the finished work of Christ according to what the Scriptures teach that we have peace with God and not these other dogmas that reduces Christ work as insufficient
That is because White can't defend his position.
Honestly I've never seen a debater lose so many debates consecutively, James White astonishes me. One of the single best Catholic Apologists it must MUST be a secret plan.
I think you're onto something
Conspiracy theories! They make you feel like you're onto something. :)
😂😂😂😂😂😂
It is interesting to note that the first reading for Sunday is in Acts 9, the Church is at peace when we walk with God. And we walk with God when we do what Jesus instructs us to do.
All I came away with from Mr White is "I hate the Church". What I got from Mr Akin was "Repent, Believe, be baptised; and when I sin later, Repent, Believe and get forgiven." Sounds like walking with God and being at peace with God to me.
James White is not a dummy, but was pivotal in my decision to become Catholic. Tonight he continues with that tradition.
Welcome home in advance ❤
How
I became Catholic. And after 10 years of practicing this faith and getting no closer to God....Guys like White are making more and more sense.
James White will have to answer for that. Cause he kept you away from the Truth. The church was created to guard the truth and the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ. So if you were considering coming to the Truth and James White made you walk away then he’s in big trouble. 😞
@@private2371 then you weren’t looking hard enough.
White is a brilliant well schooled Protestant but he is not a charitable statesman. Unfortunately, he comes across as a bit angry, rude, and a bit arrogant.
It is because he is full of the demonic. The oppression of the Evil One is palpable anytime he speaks.
he acts as though it is a threat to his carefully cultivated, narrow worldview. If he were to give it even the slightest "benefit of the doubt" he acts like it might unravel his whole carefully crafted narrative.
Tillich (a Protestant (Lutheran) scholar) taught that we are to "embody the truth we advocate." If attitude were the base line of our truth, then White may want to rethink the impression his version of truth leaves on his hearers. While Akin can come across as a bit condescending at times, he certainly comes closer to charity in his presentation. BTW: The host did a good job of getting out of the way, maintaining dignity of the participants and managing the event as it unfolded.
So he comes off as a Protestant
Well schooled Protestant is the greatest oxymoron ever.
Praised be Jesus Christ for the gift of Jimmy Akin, a humble and learned gentleman. Pax
Yet not telling us at all how to have peace with God. He didn't even present the Roman Catholic position. Just parts of it that are generally in agreement.
@@KnightFel Christ Founded a United Church that canonized its Scriptures. The Devil inspired protestants to twist those scriptures to justify a thousand sub-cults that agree on very little other than their false representation of Christ's actual Church. Seems pretty straightforward to anyone not indoctrinated by these man-made cults' leaders.
Praised be Jesus Christ indeed for blessing us with the wisdom and humility of Jimmy Akin. His insights shine as a beacon of knowledge and joy :)
@@KnightFelhe very clearly answered. You’ve got beams in your eyes brother.
@@Jrce11 Not at all brother. He spoke about maybe 10% of Roman Catholic Salvation. It's WAY more complicated and WAY off from the biblical gospel than he's saying. Be real. The Roman Catholic gospel is depressing and terrifying. Knowing your heart and your mind, the mortal sins of in thought one commits often, the breaking of the greatest commandment everyday, yeah, it's depressing. There is no peace in the Roman gospel.
White has an annoying tactic of throwing out Greek words as if just saying the word is supposed to reveal some clarification. In reality, the tactic is supposed to convince the audience of White’s authority and therefore enhance his credibility. It is a bad debate tactic. Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument.
"Just saying a Greek word with no explanation of its relevance is not an argument"
Original Languages matter in this debate and Jimmy Akin cannot exegete.
Also Roman Catholicism is false:
ua-cam.com/video/UCbBUQztE6M/v-deo.html&pp=ygUYcm9tYW4gY2F0aG9saWNpc20gZXJyb3Jz
@@samuelaguilar9668Make a list of timestamps of the number of times that James White uses a Greek word. Identify which of those times describes the context meaningfully as part of an argument relevant to the proposition. It should be easy enough to figure out whether the top level comment is correct or whether it is just speaking out of its own impressions.
you are correct, as with all protestants, they claim authority over the bible
@@samuelaguilar9668have you ever tried thinking for yourself? It's pretty powerful stuff. At least if you're going to submit your will in obedience, don't do it on behalf of an ego like James White's.
@@samuelaguilar9668 CoPe, White got humiliated and lied during the debate.
One of the problems i find with protestantism is that they question and reject apostolic siccession, papacy and magisterium… and yet, they want all of those to reside in one person, in the person of the protestant pastor and each protestant followers.
Even just from a practical level of unity, it makes no sense.
“One of the problems I find with Protestantism is this thing that no Protestant argues for” the scripture alone is the infallible authority. The church is also an authority in the life of a Protestant, but isn’t infallible. Protestant pastors aren’t popes. We follow the apostles by following their teachings as communicated through scripture.
@@weselo8305Catholics are not that different, we also interpret the bible individually, however, when it comes to critical things such as baptism, how do we decide who interprets it correctly?
@@zeegovna5109 Ultimately on tough questions, you read the Word, listen to trusted people who have looked into it on different sides, and decide which position better aligns with the Word. There is no reason to think we have a single infallible interpreter (other than Scripture itself interpreting itself)
@@weselo8305but scripture itself doesn’t interpret itself, thats why i brought up baptism. I trust my protestant friend on many things, but he doesnt believe the same as me on baptism
James White: "It's obvious if you read the Bible that my minority, niche theology that excludes all apostolic and most protestant churches, is the only possible interpretation."
So true
Exactly! Only the opposite of what you said. 😂 It’s straight Bible, just repent and believe, enough disobedience.
@@westb1028
There are contradictory ideas expressed in the NT.
Romans 2:5-11. We are judged by deeds. That's the same Paul that y'all quote about saved by faith alone.
@sliglusamelius8578 these aren't contractions. It says WE are to judge by actions, not God
@@SneakyEmu
False. Romans 2:5-11 says that we will be judged by God by our works! It's right there! Read it.
God bless you Jimmy.
For Catholics, the gospel is the gospels. For Protestants, the gospel is a peculiar interpretation of paul.
It was a 16th century reinterpretation, that no one before Hus ever held, and that very few protestant sects can fully agree on even to this day. It is almost like, personal interpretation of the Bible without the wisdom of the Majesterium and guidance of the Holy Spirit leads to error and faction.
@@user-jm4kz5bg9f
The current mAjEsTaRiUm is in faction
As it has always been
@@goyonman9655
I guess it's just as important to note that scholars came up with "wildly different convlusions on a number of ussues" (sic)
Tired of White intentionally disrespecting Catholicism by referring to it as “Rome” or the Pope as “Francis”
Why should he use terms he doesn’t recognise/ believe in?
It is not disrespectful. When you say catholic it can mean greek-catholic but with Rome it is specified. As with Francis he leaves only the title out. By your logic we are disrespecting Jesus every time we say Jesus instead of Jesus Christ.
Accurate descriptions
Great Job Jimmy Akin👍 As always clarity thru charity 🙏🇻🇦✝️
@JimmyAkin is one of most gracious debaters while being stern without being a scoffer.
not once did Jimmy Akin address James White's opening statement in Hebrews and Romans. I wonder why 🤔
@@johnhartnett3629Ironically Hebrews and Romans both refute James White’s view of eternal security. Hebrews 10:26, Romans 11:22.
@@catholictruth102 The Reformed view is not the same thing as Once Saved Always Saved. The Westminster Confession has an entire chapter on the perseverance of the saints.
@catholictruth102 The warning passages do not prove that election is conditional.
Akin was sparky throughout the debate. Secondly, he never addressed the actual Reformed and Scriptural position. He kept using strawman fallacies. Furthermore, the Bible does teach Sola scriptura many times over. Westminster Confession 1:6. By good and necessary consequence. Additionally, the phrase "word of God" is l9gically deduced from Scripture just as the word Trinity does not occur in the text but is perfectly a biblical term.
I recommend to all who speak Spanish to watch the best apologist by far, his name is Padre Luis Toro. I have not seen anybody else debate as clearly as him using the bible. He is phenomenal, truly gifted and has helped many protestants return to the Catholic faith. I don't know if any of his debates have been translated to English, maybe someone out there can do this if allowed!
I think Jimmy very calmly and politely wiped the floor with James' arguments.
Praise God that He has graced me with ears to hear the truth of THE GOSPEL.
I hope you heard that
Truth from Dr. White, for in this debate there is only one Truth.
@@Merih98614😂😂
God BLESS This Church for hosting this debate!
I happen to live relatively close to Livingston, Louisiana
May God bless you with wisdom, understanding and knowledge Akin..
If you're reading this, watch Dr. White's debate against Trent Horn on eternal security. That debate, along with the Pat Madrid vs James White debate on Sola Scriptura is what opened my eyes to the truth of Catholicism, having watched both as a Baptist.
the beard game is strong with the debate
Yes, but Akin has the hat.
Jimmy is astoundingly good. James was baffled, he didn't know how to deal with Jimmy's presentation at all cross x that he didn't understand what was going on.
April fools was a few weeks ago.
@@KnightFelyes tell that to JW
@@chiniiya Jehovas Witness? They aren't here.
He was baffled because he had no one to debate. Jimmy decided that he was just going to show a particular presentation.
Question to James White: "Do you agree that 2+2=4?"
James White: "Yes"
Question to James White: "Do you agree that to arrive at the number 4 from adding two numbers together, that a *calculation* must have taken place?"
James White: "No"
exactly, he hates Catholics so much that he will refuse to agree with the pope on anything haha
May I ask what the point is of you quoting this? Thank you.
@@andrewmiles2370 denial of purgatory is irrational
😂He dodging
Haha, that’s actually pretty accurate.
This debate turned into “What does the Catholic Church teach?”, and not “Is Catholic or Calvinist justification right?”
Hey admin, I think you've accidentally mislabeled your video. I've been an admin for my church's UA-cam page and made the same mistake, all good hehehe.
What is so sad about this debate is that James White simply is not looking for common ground on which to build a dialogue, but seemingly just wants to prove he is right and the Catholic Church is wrong. His entire religion is to prove the Catholic Church wrong. It is sad that he says "faith in love", but truly does not know love. And if one does not know love then he does not know God.
Quite the assumption to say he isn't loving. Listen to his arguments, don't judge him for his tone during a debate. Debates aren't for finding common ground
If you believe his arguments to be true that's all right with me. Every person comes to the Truth on their own path. Yet, it is how we behave on that path that makes us Christian.
It's a debate, not a discussion. What you're looking for isn't wrong, this just isn't that environment.
of course he wants to prove he is right, anything else wouldn't be loving.
if you know someone's house is on fire, you should with all your might tell that person that his house is on fire and that he should get out now..
I'd have to agree to an extent. I especially don't like the way he uses Roman-Catholic as an epithet, even though he's been politely corrected numerous times on the nomenclature.
White should have selected a different topic as he's all over the map - wanting to know about: the Sacraments, the role of Mary as Mediatrix of all Graces which come to us ultimately from Jesus' death on the Cross, the Holy Mass, Purgatory, Indulgences, etc. If White wanted to talk about that we'd all be happy to listen, but he should have selected a different topic or add more nights to allow for additional topics.
As a Protestant for over 60 years, I have now moved even closer to converting to Catholicism after listening to this debate. Mr White's obvious distain for Catholics and his arrogance (sir, you need not constantly make reference to how many times you have debated Catholics) only distracts from his arguments. If you can not present your position w/out constantly attacking your opponents, your argument appears weak. During this debate, it was weak. Thank you Mr Akin!
Well done to First Baptist Livingston for facilitating these debates. Bravo. An excellent production.
Sorry my fellow Catholic brother and sister but leaving from Catholicism to Protestant saved my life 🙏🏽
No, it didn't.
You were never Catholic in the first place
I pray all who attended becomes catholic because of this. Jimmy is great at planting seeds and I hope everyone does their research and see the truth of the one true apostolic faith. Come on everyone. Jesus prayed for us all to be one church. Stop being prideful or ignorant about the faith. It’s time we all come back to Mass and worship Jesus our Lord the way we were meant to. God bless.
Amen!❤
@ChristIsLord7, didn't you pay any attention to this debate? Especially, the opening statement? Hebrews clearly states that Christ offered Himself once for all time at the cross. It doesn't have to be repeated ever again. There's no need for a Re-Presentation which is actually a Re-sacrifice every Sunday. Yet the Roman Church blasphemes by doing this.
I pray that lost papists will be converted and regenerated by the Holy Spirit as they hear the Scriptures expounded. All papists are lost, including Akin.
@@Michael-yl9rlMay God grant papists the new birth and conversion to the Christ of Scripture.
Salvation is only a possibility????
Some thoughts from a former Protestant...
A) James White argues that "scripture" was fixed at the death of the last apostle, yet the New Testament didn't come into being until the FOURTH century. It may be true that the actual writings included in the New Testament were written when White argues that they were written, but there were MANY other writings which could have been included in the New Testament, but were NOT included. And the authority that decided which to include or not include was the Catholic Church at various councils in the 4th Century. So James White must depend on Catholic Church councils and their decisions as to what to include or not include in the canon to even HAVE a New Testament scripture. In this sense, like most Protestants, James White is more Catholic than he thinks he is, because he depends on the Catholic Church in order to even HAVE New Testament scripture.
B) When did the first Christian argue that the Eucharist was simply a symbol and who was the person who came up with this doctrine? The person who originally came up with this doctrine was Ulrich Zwingli who lived from January 1, 1484 to October 11, 1531. While not all Protestant churches believe this doctrine, most do believe it. The Protestant position is therefore that from Jesus in the 1st Century to the 16th Century the church was WRONG, but Zwingli got it right.
Most Protestants argue that Jesus (in the 6th chapter of the Gospel of John) was speaking figuratively when he spoke about eating his body and drinking his blood. However, it appears that the earliest Christians took Jesus to be speaking literally, NOT figuratively.
St. Ignatius, who lived from around A.D. 50-117, was the Bishop of Antioch and a martyr during the persecution of the Roman Emperor Trajan (A.D. 98-117). It is generally held that he was a student of the apostle John, the disciple “whom Jesus loved,” and he was appointed the third bishop of Antioch by the apostle Peter himself. While being led to his death he wrote letters to various churches in which he said...
“They [the Docetists] hold aloof from the Eucharist and from services of prayer, because they refuse to admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins and which, in his goodness, the Father raised.” He even goes on to emphasize that, “Consequently those who wrangle and dispute God’s gift [of the Eucharist] face death.” Thus, Ignatius not only warned against this false belief-his tone implies that the True Presence was already an assumed belief for the Christians at the time, and that acceptance of this belief was imperative. The question was merely how to treat those heretics who did not believe this in union with the Church.
Justin Martyr was killed, along with six other Christians, by the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius (A.D. 161-180) for refusing to sacrifice to the Roman gods. He said...
"This food we call Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Saviour being incarnate by God’s word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus."
These two early church fathers exemplify the doctrine of the "True Presence" which Catholics still believe, but which has been rejected by many Protestants starting with Zwingli in the 16th Century.
C) Christ and his apostles taught that the church should be ONE with no divisions, yet today there are thousands of different denominations which interpret the scripture differently from one another. This process began with the Orthodox eastern Churches splitting off from the Catholic church about 1,000 years after Christ, then this process continued when Luther split off hundreds of years later. The Church warned Luther that this process would not end with him, but it would continue to split, which in fact it has indeed done.
D) While many Christians and different denominations caste out demons, it is definitely a cliché that when you need a good exorcist, you call the professionals. You call the Catholics. I found it funny but also informative that the late Joan Rivers talked about this fact before she died. In an interview, she talked about how her house seemed to be haunted, so she called a friend who was a Catholic priest to deal with it. When the interviewer pointed out that Joan was Jewish, she replied that the Catholics were "good at that stuff." While her comment was funny, it is also true. And let's all remember that Satan does not caste out Satan.
I'm an artist and here is one of my favorite shirt designs on this topic...
www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/Got-Demons-by-scubalasvegas/93016330.IJ6L0
Why The Protestant Reformation Was Worse Than You Thought...
ua-cam.com/video/NU8bsqMHwUE/v-deo.html
The Real Presence of the Eucharist in the Early Church...
clarifyingcatholicism.org/articles/the-real-presence-of-the-eucharist-in-the-early-church/
Bone-Chilling Interview with a Real-Life Exorcist (Fr. Vince Lampert)...
ua-cam.com/video/nhhi7Fk3ueI/v-deo.html
Michael & The Exorcist: "I Saw Her Crawl Up A Wall" | Fr. Dan Reehil...
ua-cam.com/video/cFIKpoIt4aE/v-deo.html
Vatican exorcist reveals his most haunting experiences | A Current Affair...
ua-cam.com/video/CEg5M1Qk_M8/v-deo.html
Irenaeus, Doctor of Unity...
www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/irenaeus-doctor-of-unity.
Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy...
www.amazon.com/Pope-Fiction-Answers-Misconceptions-Papacy/dp/0964261006
Surprised By Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic...
www.amazon.com/Surprised-Truth-Converts-Biblical-Historical/dp/0964261081/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_i=0964261081&psc=1
I nearly died when Mr. Akin quotes the musical Pirates of Penzance "But we waive that point. We do not press it. We look over it" lol
30:05 Yes these quotes are verbatim although quoted from different sections of the Cathecism:
571 Comes from Nicenean Creed, which we repeat at almost all masses. All days of the year, throughout the world in different languages.
571 is under the section of the Creed which is what we believe stated in the Creed about the Son. Oh and there is a reference *Hebrews 9:26*
26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
1545 appears in the Sacraments-Service (mass) section under heading " The one prieshood of Christ"
Ref, Hebrews 8:4 and St. Thomas Aquinas.
2771 This is related to how we pray, this is in the Our Father prayer. But to understand it all you'd have to read entries 2767 to 2776... with several bible verses referenced. This whole section is beautiful. I pray the Our Father several times daily. Good to know the Church's details on this prayer.
Remember, James White is the best Protestantism has to offer. Catholicism simply is too strong an argument to defeat. I was in the Calvinist cult and upon experiencing God, He led me to His church - the Catholic Church that has remained in succession from the first century till today. Whereas the Protestants came 16 centuries later and drastically changed the faith and made a new religion - not only removing 7 books of the Bible that they disagreed with, but changing the faith itself. It has divided Christendom and divided it into oblivion. God tells Satan is the divider. God tells us He is not the author of confusion.
I am just now coming out of the reformed world, after 20 years. Catholicism just makes more sense. When I finally stopped to think about why there are so many divisions and endless splitting I realized sola scriptura and private judgement were the main reasons, but behind them was the rejection of the authority of the church. That’s the core of Protestantism.
The result is individualism, subjectivism, and relativism.
I haven’t watched the debate yet, but Akin clearly won the last one.
Same here brother! I listened to the dividing line and radio free geneva for a decade. I was confirmed catholic last year!
Who said White is the best protestantism has to offer? 😂
@jackcrow1204 he's a prominent apologist in baptist churches and reformed/calvinist camps. But there's a lot more to protestant views too
I'm a devout cradle Catholic and I can tell you White is *not* the best Protestantism has to offer.
God will be Gracious to whom he will be Gracious. Thank you, Lord, for saving a wrech like me! For the praise of His glorious Grace! 🙌
Paul was right, a Jewish christian can't think he has the golden ticket and God owes him something. God can't be wrestled into submission based on someone's heritage.
No matter how many times James involved in debates with the Catholic apologists and got bashed in his fallible views as a former Catholic he is now rejecting as a result of non dissolution of his marriage, he remains so hateful and everyword he speaks is wasteful and non sense because these are alll false misinterpretations of the Catholics Bible. As a protestant myself, James has lost all these debates and his credibility he has ever had. Its not how fluent in speaking his personal ideas or a Dr before his name but why he left the Catholic Church in the first place that matters. To me, I would never want to accept his views for he had already disobeyed the original Church he should have remained loyal to until his death.
The Catholic Church as the world all know is the Church Jesus established so everyone like myself is journeying to join that true Church by undergoing research but not to weaponise people by the earthly wisdom to dogde the truth. 😅
I've never heard Jimmy Akin before. Really sharp guy from what I could tell. Also I love his style
Mama Mary pray for us Lord Jesus I Trust in You! ❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Sorry Mary never heard a prayer from anyone so you're wasting your time. Think about it she would 1. have to be omnipresent 2. all knowing [omnipresent 3 all powerful to be able to answer prayer, [omnipotent] Attributes that belong to God alone.
Dear@@joecannes2421, think about it -- Jesus declared that those who are dead in the world are alive in Heaven -- "The Lord is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Mark 12:27 and Luke 20:38) "Death has been swallowed up in victory..." (1 Corinthians 15:54-56)
And Jesus gave Mary to be mother to His beloved disciple (John 19:26-27) So she is mother to each one of us who call Jesus our brother. And Jesus gave John a Revelation which refers to this fact (Revelation 12:17)
She does not need to be omniscient (I think that is the word you meant, rather than "omnipresent." It's a little different) to know what her millions of children say to her. She only needs the gift of God to be mother to us all. She does not need to be omnipotent to be one of the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1), any more than you or I need to be omnipotent to have our prayers answered.
Please learn what the Catholic Church teaches, and try not to think of Catholics as complete idiots.
We are Christians, trying to be better Christians all the time.
Is she omnipresent? No! How does she hear your prayers?
I think the biggest frustration for JW and every protestant Christian, is that if Jimmy is telling the truth, there has never been a public acknowledgement of the Catholic church's change in perspective or acceptance of Luther/Calvin as being within the realm of orthodoxy, nor does Jimmy acknowledge such a change has taken place. Because to do so would show the church to be fallible, which Roman Catholicism cannot allow since it is the highest authority on truth and doctrine.
Do not be confused, the only reason we have a fractured church today is because popes and the magesterium could not humble themselves and repent of their overreach and adding to the Scriptures. Luther et al did not set out to start a new thing, they desired the once for all continual church to repent and reform its teachings to the Scriptures, just like Pope Gregory had done 500 years earlier. But the greed of men and just for power was and remains too intoxicating.
And now that the ketchup is out of the bottle, apologists like Jimmy simply gloss over these real grievances and deny the differences ever existed.
All the "whoo hoo" "yays" and "yippies" from Akin comes off as a pretense of joy, when it's just a debate sir.
I got the impression that he never came to debate.
If you have watched enough of his material, it’s just his regular candor. But I understand your point is it comes off that way.
Jimmy has EXposed REFORMATION... Feel sorry for JAMES WHITE.. SHOULDN'T HAVE DEBATED JIMMY.
Thanks to both debators for their time. I do notice a prevalence in the comments claiming James "lost" yet a suspicious lack of addressing the disagreement which would have made him "lose"
Appears to be judging on tone.
they never give a reason, "just James lost the debate. I'm a stronger catholic because of him" its the same old same old with theological debates. consistency is key and White is very consistent in his arguments. that's the problem people have with him.
Finally done with both. Ya James White won this, but thats partly because Catholic answers wasnt playing. As James said it really was a presentation on their part. Kind of underhanded, but either way was fun to watch. James White did a good job, and i say this as a Catholic convert
When your opponent repeats the same 3 arguments in every debate for decades, it's best to just address the audience to a degree
@@EruIluvatar5 I mean, then don't agree to a "debate". And Catholic Apologists have their same sticking points they just recycle. There is only so much each side has at this point, but I do like the ecumenical spirit of Jimmy's approach I think he is getting older and putting fourth....
"Hey the Church has changed in some of these areas, if you want to come aboard come aboard"
lol what?
Jimmy showed clarity of mind, charity and joy. James showed, unfortunately; pettiness, paranoia, and as always, a strict reliance on his understanding of Scripture as absolute truth, and nothing else. But nothing new here.
Imagine spending decades arguing with people and still not understanding the faith you are arguing for, that unfortunately is James White. I think he means well, he’s just so angry that it makes it hard to tell.
I don’t think he understands his opposition either. And yes, he comes off as so very angry. The body language, the eye rolls, the smirks. It’s extremely unsettling
Seriously? That canard?
@@gc3563 Yeah he does understand the opposition. The only ones claiming that he doesn't understand Roman Catholicism are youtube apologist. None of his opponents on the stage have claimed that his understanding is incorrect. So your comment means nothing.
@@KnightFel if my comment means nothing, and that’s fine it’s just my opinion, then same goes to you. You are entitled to your opinion as well, but your comment means nothing.
James white is God tool that brings more converts to Catholicism...
As per usual, we can listen to the authority of James White, or the Church established by Jesus.
James makes Jesus out to be liar and undependable, no less that he did NOT lead his Church to ALL TRUTH. Jesus made numerous statements about his Church, nearly 2000 years before James came along:
Christ is the head of his Church (Col 1: 18)
Christ''s Church is the pillar of truth (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is the bulwark of truth. (1 Tim 3: 15)
Christ's Church is where the manifold wisdom of God is made known. (Eph 3: 10)
*Christ PROMISED to lead it to ALL Truth.* (Jn 16: 13)
Christ PROMISED that he would NEVER leave it. (Mt 28: 20)
Christ PROMISED that the gates of hell would not prevail (it will not teach doctrinal error) ; (Mt 16: 18)
fr lol
To put it simply, there is no greater authority than Sola scriptura but Sola White😆.
@@clemenaparente9773 True This: James disagrees with ALL kinds of protestant denominations - and Sola Scriptura gives him no authority to say his fallible interpretation of scripture is right, and they wrong.
"If you wish to persuade and convince me without fail: first be able think my thoughts inside your mind, second feel my feelings as someone in my circumstances would, and third, produce my my words but through your voice."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
I became Catholic after 30 ish years evangelical. Bad theology =bad marriage. Grateful things have improved after we both became Catholic. Praying for James White and his marriage.
Yay, Protestants can get you to Jesus but can’t do much for you after that.
That’s a rude and accusatory statement. You’re implying James White has a bad marriage because he’s a Protestant? Gross.
@@sarahd5341idk about his marriage but clearly he has bad theology since he's a heretic
@@revelation20232 Protestants are not the ones committing the Galatian heresy (adding works to the gospel).
@@sarahd5341 Hi, Sarah.
You do realise, do you not, that Catholicism claims that Paul was and is Catholic, that Galatians is a Catholic book, that Galatians is inspired, and that it was the Catholic Church which included Galatians in the canon of inspired books, so that Galatians is in the Bible? I'm not here asking you to agree with the Church's claims, but just to recognise that the Church understands Galatians to be part of God's revelation and so part of His patrimony to the Church. Since the Church holds that God is one, and that truth is one, whatever the Church holds about the question of salvation, of justification, of the relationship between faith and works has to be compatible with what Paul taught the Galatians and wrote to them in his letter. Again, I'm not asking you to agree that the Church's doctrine on these matters is compatible with Galatians, but only that She understand that it is compatible. The question then is, what does the Church understand about these matters, and about what Paul taught the Galatians, which allows Her to think that they work well together? Clearly what Protestants claim the Church reaches is not compatible with what Protestants claim Paul teaches the Galatians, so there is a fundamental disagreement between Catholic and Protestant about what the Church teaches on these matters and what Protestants claim the Church teaches about these matters. Since it is the Church teaching about what She teaches about these matters, the reasonable supposition is that Protestant claims about Catholic teachings are mistaken.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Where the Bishop appears there let the people be. Just as where JESUS CHRIST IS there is THE CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. St. Ignatius of Antioch. 107 AD 🍷🍞🔑⛪️📿✝️📖📝🕊🫶🏻🔥😇
The church according to Scripture is 'a pillar and butress of the truth'. The Catholic Church advocated for in this debate was one of appeasement.
@@joeh8130so which man from the 1500s do you worship
@@joeh8130 CoPe
@@joeh8130 remember, Ignatius of Antioch was the disciple of Apostle John. So I prefer his interpretation than your modern Protestant interpreation.
And where is Christ?
James you are right. The. Blessed man is just like paul who in acts was baptized calling on his name for the washing away of his sin. Peter says baptism now saves you! So yes the free gift of initial justification is a free gift. But as is said by Paul and Jesus you must persevere in the faith to be saved. Faith without works is dead (james) . You are his Workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works,that you should walk in them. Ephesians.10
There's no such thing as "initial justification." Also, keep reading the verse on baptism. You all always stop there. Proof texting is useless. Your quotation on Ephesians 2: 8-10 is perfeclty consistent with reformed theology. You are saved by faith alone, not faith + works. Works comes after faith, that's why you're saved for, that's what you're created for, and not works to prove to God anything, but for your neighbor and to glorify God. Rome says no, you need works along with faith to increase in justification, which is utterly false. You proved Dr. White's point.
Baptism saves in the same way the Ark saved Noah. It does not impart salvation, only the death of Christ does that. And it does that by grace through faith. Regeneration doesn’t even save you, even if baptism did regenerate you, which it does not. The only thing that gives salvation is God’s grace, and we can only receive that grace through faith.
@@fuelmotive8716baptism is only salvific because of God obviously, but for you to say baptism does not regenerate would mean you stand against the entire history of the church beginning to end. I assure you, the church was not entirely in error prior to your coming. You are not the saviour of the church.
@@Jrce11 I did not say that the entirety of Christian’s are in error “prior to my coming” nor did I say I was “the savior of the church.” There is one savior of the Church and that is Christ Jesus, and saying that I made any statements even close to that is ridiculously stupid.
@@fuelmotive8716 you are here to correct the entire church on the issue of baptism despite what nearly every single early church writer had to say on the matter, correct?
Pastor Brian Gunter speaking at 5:02-07: "The question of tonight's debate is 'How does one find peace with God'"?
Response: Jesus speaking to His disciples at the Last Supper in John 14: 27 (NASB): “Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful."
Answer: Likewise, wouldn't Christians find this gift of peace from Jesus at their own commemoration of His Last Supper?
So beautiful to listen to Jimmy Aiken calmly and persuasively refute each and every trope and reasonable challenge by JW.
@joevasanu7459, sure, Jimmy the sloppy cowboy clown never addressed James's opening statements on Hebrews and Romans. I wonder why 🤔
If you want to stay Protestant, you throw out some of the Sacraments like marriage, for example. That puts marriage into a legal communion rather than a holy union instituted by G_d which opens it up to all sorts of attacks against the family such as birth control, abortion, divorce, etc.
If you're a papist just pay the church for an annulment.
@@ThomasCranmer1959I as a catholic agreee the snnulment process is corrupt and needs improvement, but it doesn’t destroy the sacrament of marriage
@@Luke-ms5hn Marriage is not a sacrament. It is a covenant between a man and a woman and Almighty God. What GOD hath joined together let NO MAN or WOMAN put asunder. Not even the papists have the authority to divorce or annul a covenant between God and a man and woman.
@@ThomasCranmer1959 In the Catholic church, marriage is a Sacrament precisely because it is between man, woman and G_d.
Love the moderator.
Akin did an amazing job
WHAT?!?!?!
James W. NEVER answered the question:
“WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THE DOCTRINE SOLA SCRIPTURA?”
He deflected to different topics because… he knows it’s not written.
The balanced approach is
Both Oral Tradition through the apostles AND scripture.
because it is NOT in scripture
I died when Jimmy asked James if he thinks he needs purgatory lol
Haha, never did get an answer on that .
He doesn't as he stands in Christ's righteousness!
@@mmbtalk To simplify the point a bit, Jimmy was asking if James think she is so perfect as to be ready to enter heaven.
@@brycegladwin8087 that is where our fundamental difference lies and I am surprised James, did not address this emphatically! Protestantd believe no amount of human effort can ever earn you anything heavenwards. All our best are as good as worthless rugs (Isaiah 64:6 Philippians 3:7-9) That is why you will never hear of protestants canonising anyone as a saint. Our so called 'saintliness' look good when compared to other human beings, with also a lot of secret sins being unknown, but before the Holy presence of God no creature is fit to stand guiltless(Romans 3:23). So to answer Jimmy's question, the Lord made it clear he who has the son has life(1 John 5:12) and Christ's imputed righteousness is enough to get you into heaven, anytime any day! (Romans 5:1-2 Romans 10:4,13).
@@mmbtalk White may now be one step closer to conversion to Christ's holy Catholic Church.Pax
Wow. White was squirming big time during Jimmy's cross exam! And his desk was already packed up before Jimmy even finished his closing remarks.
Your bias is showing.
Thank you for not censoring comments here.
Regardless of JW's character (as a protestant, I am not a fan of his antics), he DID actually bring up some good arguments and points, which unfortunately, we weren't able to hear more on.
This was my first time hearing Jimmy Akin and I could tell he is well-educated. I like how he pointed out the agreements between Catholicism and Protestantism. I still don't think his arguments were enough to invalidate Sola Scriptura.
Personally, I would like to hear a debate on the veneration of Mary. I don't think JW bringing that up took away from the topic. I took it as simply pointing out how that tradition wasn't derived from the apostles.
Regardless of who "won", I learned a lot from this debate. I hope there are more like this in the near future.
Sola Scriptura was the topic of the first night of debate. This is the second night of debate and it is a different topic.
Jimmy Akin did a great job in explaining the fullness of Truth only found in the Catholic Church.
That's the problem.... its ONLY found in a Catholic church. Not in the Bible or other Churches.
@filippguitar Sounds like you believe in Sola Sctriptura. That is a false protestant teaching. Where in the Bible does it teach that Truth can only be found in the Bible? You need to read the writings of the early Church Father's to expand your understanding of faith. The Early Church Father's who walked with the Apostles, not Martin Luther or any other denomination that came over a thousand years later.
@@Servus-humilis
Is Bergollio in agreement with the early church fathers??
@@goyonman9655 in terms of doctrin...yes
An elementary school Catholic catechism student could have told Dr White that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was once and for all time.
Dr White just doesn’t understand Catholic teaching.
Maybe someday he’ll actually put aside his assumptions and honestly listen. I pray for his conversion.
He’s just acting like he doesn’t, like most Protestants to score points
He should go to Mass with his sister.
Pray for him to come to the RCC
Yes pray him
Unfortunately, this debate didnt always stay focused on the main Protestant Catholic divides, as large parts of this debate were on issues Protestants dont even agree on , such as eternal security, and Calvinism.
This would have been better focusing on Mary, the mass, papal infallibikity, Purgatory, role of the Priesthood, Sola Scriptura, and THE GOSPEL.
No way around it, if there was an apocalypse tomorrow, and humanity started over with just a Bible, the Catholic church would never be reconstructed in its current form, as its been cobbled together over the centuries. Couldnt happen. Conversely, a new church would much more closely resemble the EARLY church, which is the non reformed, Protestant view.
Well yeah, if you throw out the actual people who led the church over the centuries and just boiled everything down to the Gospel, it's going to be different. That's not how the Church functions tho, not in the first century and not in any after.
The debate was done respectfully, though there was not so much new content as I have listened to so many such debates before. Chances of converting either way based on such debates is minimal, but useful FIY only. To claim that either one won the debate is not sensible because we are different religions and what seems beautiful to the other is repugnant to the other. Ultimately, preaching of the gospel is the most effective means of wining souls to the Lord and the Spirit of God makes conversions happen using the seed sown through the gospel! Even proud hearts get convicted and yield to the truth!
Not sure what debate everyone was watching...the debate is over at the 1:04:44 mark when Akin says he would lose his salvation when committing a mortal sin. That is clearly not true in scripture and White clearly points this out. That completely nullifies the finished work of Jesus Christ for the believer which covers all sins, past, present and future.
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” Galatians 6:7-8 David says blessed is the man whose sins are covered and the man to whom God will not impute sin, but God clearly imputed the serious sin of adultery and murder because his child had to die, isn’t that correct? We are not forgiven for all future sins I don’t know where you get that.
@@jlouis4407 Boom.
Is it just me or does James White’s sports coat look huge on him? lol
A tailor would do him good!
Some new Theology would do him and all his followers would do him way better.
It was predestined to be that big
He may of had to borrow one. Who knows ..he's traveling. Better a tad too big than too small. 💕🌷 God Bless Dr James White....he's an incredible Debator, full of wisdom. ✝️
@@michellecheriekjv4115Mr. James White please.
I think it's pretty clear which speaker has more of the peace of Christ
There is no peace in Calvinism, because like White has said before it is impossible to know who the “Elect” are who are saved no matter what. You can never be at peace as a Calvinist because even if you do all you can to love Jesus and live a faithful life, if you’re not pre-ordained to be Elect, then you’re damned. Calvinists believe in predestination so you’re saved whether you desire to be or not, or you’re damned whether you desire to be or not.
Yup, either live perfectly or… oops! “Depart from me, I never knew you. “
The famous 'blessed man' is back.
He can’t do a justification debate without the blessed man!!!
It's a great question!
@@billmartin3561 I mean, you can't have the gospel without the blessed man. Are you really mocking that message? Yikes, big yikes. Very sad. There is no hope if you are not the blessed man. It's incredibly sad how many people in the comments hate the gospel.
@@KnightFel it really is. I am astounded. They gloat over what will be their own damnation. Every idle word of it. If they really thought we were lost, why would they take such an attitude toward us? I honestly hope none of them are lost but I don't think they return the sentiment. It's rather shocking to me, to be honest
I saw an angry, arrogant, pridefully proposed account of scripture with a dizzying amount of circular logic, lobbing attack after attack on his opponent…
And then there was Jimmy Akin.
All of the Catholic doctrinal issues James White mentions taking issue with are soundly defensible by way of biblical teaching, including Marian devotion as our intercessor (notice: NOT Marian worship).
Yes, Mary interceded for us at the wedding of Cana. Is she co-redemptrix? Yes, because Mary accepted becoming the mother of God.
If James White (or any baptist) want to evangelize Catholics, as was the topic of his talk the next night, one needs to ask at a minimum, and answer the following questions to Catholics:
- Show who in the first 1,500 years of Christianity interpreted scripture as you do, that the bread and wine in the bread of life discourse are symbolic or figurative only.
- Explain how Christendom error'd so fast, so universally on this point?
- Explain why one should follow the fallible gospel of JW and not all of Christendom for those first 1,000 plus years?
- Explain how Jesus was undependable and that he lied when he said that he would lead his church to ALL truth?
- Explain how could his Church have errored with his promise in place (so too, the Church is the pillar and bulwark of TRUTH)
- Is Jesus is not powerful enough nor faithful enough to mean what he said?
- Admit that you are fallible
- Admit that since you are fallible, you could be in error with your personal and fallible interpretation of scripture, and the Catholic Church right on the nature of the Eucharist.
- Explain how it is that you trust that your New Testament canon is right, when it was decided by the 4th c Catholic Church, Catholic Bishops who would disagree with your interpretation of scripture repeatedly, no less on the Eucharist.
- Explain how it is that you believe your Old Testament is right, when those 4th c Bishops said it was 46 writings?
- Explain how is it that you trust them to get the New Testament right, yet they error'd on the Old Testament - and they ALL celebrated the Mass which you reject? (note, there were no protestant churches at the time)
_So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him_
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. Great job, Dr. White!
I honestly don't get the comments on this one, everyone is talking about James Whites tone, trying to find common ground and being charitable.
First its a debate we want clash to see the clash of ideas we don't want common ground where equivications make it impossible to understand the differences (Something Jimmy Akin did)
Second if you want to be charitable, actually do a rebuttle. Jimmy avoided twice doing a rebuttle and just did his own presentation ignoring his opponent on purpose how is that charitable. Siting that James White did a gish gallop. When all he was trying to do was to show where the ideas clashed by the numerous differences in the outcomes of the doctrines, so that there could be meaningful clash. And if anyone has watched a number of James Whites debates you'll see how he deals with arguments like that against him. He addressed them shortly and quickly, rather than ignoring his opponent and poisoning the well accusing him of bad behaviour (clashing with the man rather than the idieas).
Third critisising catholic teachings is fair game in a debate, its not attacking the man, and it shows the outcome of the ideas. The only question you need to ask is "Are the ideas related to peace with God?"
I feel like everyone in the comments are a bunch of people who came to watch a soccer game and are complaining that one side is kicking the ball, while the other one is trying to be nice to the ball. You came to watch soccer the ball is going to get kicked. - The problem comes when you kick the man.
It is loving to disagree vigorously and openly because that is the correct way. It is deceitful to conceal disagreement behind a pretense of good manners.
Christians have to start learning the difference between being nice and being loving.
Incorrect. How about you watch Jimmy Akin's debate debrief and get a better picture of what the debate was supposed to be. White is a dishonest debater.
@@EruIluvatar5 sorry what is incorrect about what I wrote?