The Exodus! (Did It Happen?) - Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2021
- The Bible records the story of Moses and Exodus, the foundational event in the Jewish faith, but some skeptics say it never happened. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli examine the evidence to determine whether the Exodus really occurred.
www.sqpn.com/2021/08/the-exod...
Further Resources:
• Five Views of the Exodus (book): amzn.to/3io8NeK
• James Hoffmeier’s book Israel in Egypt: amzn.to/3CdJvHN
• James Hoffmeier’s book Israel in Sinai: amzn.to/3Aadhvc
• Kenneth Kitchen’s book On the Reliability of the Old Testament: amzn.to/3AbHYAv
• Bob Brier’s course The History of Ancient Egypt: amzn.to/37hYx17
• Gary Rendsburg’s course The Book of Genesis: amzn.to/3ltXPX0
• Gary Rendsburg’s course The Dead Sea Scrolls: amzn.to/3yifhRL
• Jimmy’s article Did the Exodus Happen?: jimmyakin.com/2017/10/did-the...
• David Falk’s playlist Perspective on the Exodus: • Perspectives on the Ex...
• PLOS ONE article on Wind Setdown: journals.plos.org/plosone/art...
Mysterious Headlines: (ARCHAEOLOGY THEME)
• Why Is the Society for American Archaeology Promoting Indigenous Creationism?: quillette.com/2021/06/13/why-...
• 5 Solstice Sites That Aren’t Stonehenge (Petra, Spiro Mounds, OK, Nabta Playa, Egypt, Big Rock, CA, Goseck Circle, Germany): www.sapiens.org/column/field-...
I really appreciate the approach taken in this episode. One thing you pointed out that is really important is that for the ancients, there is no such thing as a distinction between what God did and what “naturally” happened. And, while some would consider that a quaint, archaic way of looking at things, I think this is a more accurate way of reading the world. We don’t live on a clockwork planet that God pops in and moves the hands on now and again, but all events are ultimately directed by God. As such, the miracles described at various points in the Bible and other sources need not be detached from natural reality in order to be Godly. This acknowledgement is going to be an increasingly important messaging point in future evangelization, as the modern audience is less open to events described in purely supernatural terms. While some are reluctant to “naturalize” God as a form of minimizing His role, I think it actually increases it-even “routine” natural processes are in this way understood as Godly…He is not an occasional visitor but a permanent resident. For Biblical foundation, see how God flooded the world by making it rain, not by materializing 5000 feet of water from thin air, sent His son through pregnancy, not apparition, and parted the sea by a strong wind, not by an instantaneous drying out of the deep. Consider the events of 1 Chronicles 10. In that chapter, it is stated clearly both that Saul committed suicide *and* that God slew Saul. We see that what was accomplished “naturally” by Saul was really done “supernaturally” by God. I really appreciate that Jimmy made this point today. It is so important for understanding how our created order actually works.
27:36
True, but also God does take an action outside natural events trough his providence. For example, death of firstborns like jimmy mentioned here.
I appreciated Jimmy's acknowledgement of the sharp modern division between natural and supernatural being anachronistic to the original context and the caution against reading the text strictly literally at all times (a false dichotomy appears in modern debates between fundamentalists and skeptical atheists... they'll say that the only right way to read the text is literally and therefore it must be done while setting reason aside, that this is what the original writers intended all along and so Christians must admit a lack of rational basis for their beliefs). similar treatments of other biblical passages that are considered "legendary" by skeptics would be nice. at one point I was afraid Jimmy would be just like some of those evangelical (and some Catholic) apologists, who basically just end up glossing over all the problems and saying trust my one or two cherry-picked scholars who happen to agree with all the traditional views of the bible' historicity. I give him a lot more credit than that with this episode!
@@transcendentalarts5942 sorry I'm late to the party. I don't disagree with your comment, only the example you gave. Yes, God may well have killed the firstborn supernaturally. However, to kill someone is to stop their heart (and brain activity, just to be technical). The means that God used could have been supernatural but the event affected the natural. My point being that the miracle was a natural event caused by a supernatural being. The event, itself, needn't be supernatural.
I think St Thomas Aquinas has a related idea called Primary and Secondary Causality
This is a really great primer on the Exodus. The content is really sound and fact based. My only minor criticism is that the early date of the exodus was first proposed in AD 1906 and was a rival to the traditional view (the late date)--not that this really matters. But other than that, great job!
Thanks! I subscribe to and very much enjoy your channel! I'm planning a future episode on the date of the Exodus, and I support a date in the 1200s. I'd very much appreciate any assistance you could offer in documenting the 1906 origin of the early date and previous datings of the event to the 1200s! Thanks for any help you can offer!
@@JimmyAkin I'd be happy to help. If you are on FB you can send me a friend request and we can chat through IM. Just let me know that you are you. 😉
@@ancientegyptandthebible Thanks! Just sent you a FB friend request!
@@JimmyAkin Awesome, just accepted your friend request and sent you an IM.
What an epic crossover!
"Well, skeptics gotta skeptic, so it goes with the territory."
Gold!😂😂😂
I don't consider it at all likely that the parting of the Red Sea can be attributed to natural phenomena, even exaggerated natural phenomena, as the text is very clear about the fact that the waters were cut into two with a strip of dry land in between. Furthermore, the surrounding waters are described as walls, and the waters are clearly deep enough to utterly destroy pharaoh's army when the flow resumes. Combine this with the fact that the miracle is repeated at the Jordan river, where it is very clear that the walls of water on either side piled up very high.
I cannot help but to think of the miracle that our Lord did at Fatima. The witnesses clearly state that the sun danced, and zig sagged in the sky before hurling down towards the earth. Also, following the event, all of their clothing, including the ground were dry, and that was following drenching rain through at least the night and that day.
I have no doubt that these events happened, even though they couldn't have by natural means. So when I consider the parting of the Red Sea, I have no doubts that our God can achieve His goal, by natural, and supernatural means.
Hi, Jimmy and Dom. I appreciate this video. I initially tackled with the issue of the Exodus’ historicity through Trent Horn’s rebuttals against skeptic UA-camr, Holy Koolaid’s, diatribe videos against Biblical history. I was relieved to hear you distinguish between conjectures made based on philosophical opinion and those made from what available evidence we have. Considering a lot of Biblical history is heavily disputed by skeptics, both serious and non-serious, what are other Biblical events for which we DO have evidence for (e.g. the Flood, the Tower of Babel, Esther [and the potential that she might have been alive during the famous Battle at Thermopylae], etc.)? Will we have future episodes about this? Thank you, and keep up the good work gentlemen!
I agree. I’d even love a separate SQPN podcast about the topic…exploring the historical and archaeological evidence for Biblical events.
Living in Clearwater Florida for many years I always thought of the Nile when we had another season of Red Tide. I always felt it rather... ominous. And an example of God's natural might.
My wife's uncle said "your Slavic" to a person we met at a store (he has a strong French accent) and the man infuriated said "We have never been slaves! You have!" And walked away. We are from the Dominican Republic hahaha
Added:
I wonder if Pharaoh said tomorrow because he wanted to make sure it was the God of the jews and not a coincidence:
Exodus 8:
"Tomorrow," Pharaoh said. Moses replied, "It will be as you say, so that you may know there is no one like the LORD our God.11The frogs will leave you and your houses, your officials and your people; they will remain only in the Nile."
If the Exodus did not happen the Jewish and Christian Faith is meaningless.
Love your videos Jimmy. I coincidentally released a video on the parting of the red sea on my own channel yesterday. So when I saw that you released one on the exodus I was very interested in your view on the parting of the red sea. To my surprise we have a disagreement on the Israelites crossing the Reed Sea instead of the Red Sea. The name Red sea wasn't called that by the Jews or the Egyptians. We most likely call it the Red Sea today because of that mistranslation in the Bible. So the writer of Exodus was probably referencing the body of water we know as the Red Sea today (possibly just the Gulf of Suez portion) when they said Reed Sea. I'd link my source but UA-cam apparently thinks it's spam.
As I point out in my video (you can find it on my UA-cam channel), I don't think the Israelites crossed the main portion of the Red Sea but probably the northern portion of the Gulf of Suez. Since the Red Sea is too wide for the Israelites to make a crossing in a single night and the Bible seems to indicate they did.
Hey Jimmy! I was waiting for this episode and was so psyched to see it on my feed. One question I have though is that Exodus 14 mentions that the water was like a wall to the right and the left. I don't think such a description could be used for wind setdown. Is this a case of some artistic liberty being made by the author or exodus? Thanks. And keep up the good work!
Love your work! I'd LOVE to hear what you have to say about climate change; such a massively politicised topic, and you seem to be one of the few Catholics on UA-cam who legitimately gives every argument a fair audience. I don't have the time or skills/training to "do my own research".
Thank you for your kind words! Climate change/global warming is on the list!
I really appreciate your approaching
What about the solstice sight in New Hampshire called America's Stonehenge? I've been there!
Watching from philippines keep safe always
I suspect the 10 gods of the ancient Egyptians mirrored the 10 Commandments that were given to Moses by the Almighty.
10 Plague - Death of First Born (Pharaoh)
9th Plague - Darkness (Ra)
8th Plague - Locusts (Nepir & Nepri)
7th Plague - Hail (Nut)
6th Plague - Boils (Isis)
5th Plague - Sick Cattle (Hathor)
4th Plague - Flies (Khepri)
3rd Plague - Gnats or Lice (Geb)
2nd Plague - Frogs (Heqt)
1st Plague - Nile (Khnum, Hapi. Osiris
The 10 gods of the ancient Egyptians probably eerily speak out in defiance of the 10 Commandments of the Lord.
1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
In short, the Almighty was up against multiple gods. And the Almighty devastated all the Egyptian gods.
A lovely academic and good presentation on exodus. A great video.
One point, refer to the Egyptologist Cyril Alfred on the death of first born shows understanding of breakdown of Egyptian social order etc. The breaking of dynamic male line sheds light and knowledge on Egyptian society and hopes for continuation ... Literally the rewriting of a social contract, complete disaster universally. ok
Hi Jimmy! You are really a treasure. My teenage son listens to your podcast devotedly and it has really helped his faith development. I have a question that I think is in your area of expertise. I’ve been looking into hospice a lot lately (I’m fine, but psychology is my field.) One thing that hospice experts consistently talk about are deathbed visions of loved ones. These people do not seem to be ghosts, and I know that you have handled this issue of ghosts in several episodes. This seems to be something different, and it seems to be regardless of faith, they bring a sense of peace and comfort. That would indicate to me as a Catholic that they are saints or have been through purgatory, but if they weren’t Catholic how could that be true? I am having a lot of trouble consolidating this, I think it’s a beautiful thing but it doesn’t seem to match with our theology. Can you help me? As always, please and thank you and I appreciate all your work.
Thank you so much for writing and for your kind words! Glad your son enjoys the show! Say howdy to him for me! Regarding your question, we'll be doing an episode on deathbed phenomena in the future, but I would say that God loves all people and wishes them to have comfort as they are dying (especially if they are dying in his friendship). The Church acknowledges that non-Catholic people can be saved if they are innocently unaware of the truth of the Catholic faith and otherwise cooperate with God's grace. So, I would not see a theological problem with God letting angels/saints/loved ones comfort people as they are coming to him--even if they are not Catholic in this life.
I cared for my husbands friend who was dying from stage 4 kidney cancer at age 46. The only family was his teenage son.
His name was Billy.
Billy was an atheist most of his life. While going through all of this, he allowed another friends pastor to come and talk with him. They met a few times and Billy broke down crying and finally believed! Even though it was Protestant.
About a week or so before he died, on 2 different occasions. He sat up and said to me "Sue, who are they" referring to people behind him. He wouldn't turn around and look. I told him, for comfort, that it was his mom and dad, and 2 friends of ours that had died.
I brought it up to his visiting hospice nurse, and the social worker who prepared me for his death. Both of them agreed that dying people see things that we don't..and both had their stories!
I believe whole heartedly that there were people sent to help Billy. It truly gives me hope for when I die...that I won't have to die alone!
Praying for Billys soul! ❤
The problem with the "providential arrangement" hypothesis is that renders something clearly amazing as something ordinary. So the distinction between nature and super-nature isn't the issue, the distinction between ordinary and remarkable, and therefore, clearly memorable. It's valid to have an objection there, and that needs to be adequately answer.
Timing is very important. If some "ordinary" event happens at just the exact time you need to, at just the exact magnitude you need to, it might as well be "extraordinary".
Like the other guy said, it may be the timeliness or specificity of an otherwise routine occurrence that makes it miraculous. I mean, imagine you encountered a witch doctor on a trip to New Orleans who “cursed” you and threatened you with weather-related calamities. Then, hail broke your windshield on the way home, your roof was leaking from a rainstorm, and ultimately a tornado ripped through your house two weeks later. These are common occurrences, but many would draw the connection between the “curse” and the events, because of their timing. The meteorologist would say “well there was a front and the water cycle and …” blah blah blah, but that wouldn’t really be in dispute. The question would be whether this witch doctor had anything to do with it, either because his “magic” actually works or demonic cooperation or what have you.
One way to view this is that both natural and spiritual simultaneously exist one does not suspend the other. God made nature and we know He sees it as a whole as very good, so it makes sense that God would make use of what He has created, He is never said to have fallen out of love with the work of His hand. We grow bored, God is in an eternal now, every moment is open at once to Him.
Great episode, and I'm really looking forward to the Part 2 (or 3, if we're lucky) of it. Up until this point, we had the Naked Archeologist's take on it (Simcha Jacobovici, yes, the guy who headed the "Jesus Family Tomb" debacle) and basically the Israel Finkelstein minimalist version from the scholarly world. Skeptoid did an episode a long time ago debunking the popular belief that "israelite slaves built the pyramids" (but scripture is not to blame for this popular misinterpretation, fueled by popular artistic depictions of the exodus) and another on Moses himself being a legendary composite figure at best. it's nice to get a faith based, but searching evaluation, so great work there, but there's more to be said for sure. critics will say you can pretty much "dig up" any single scholar to back any theory or interpretation you want, but you did a very fair survey and headed off criticism that the "naturalistic explanation" (popular at the end of the 19th century) wasn't just a cop-out to avoid acknowledging the miraculous.
through my years in school it was basically presented that some variation of the documentary hypothesis was correct but there wasn't quite the severe level of popular skepticism towards the exodus that you see now (which was all based on attacking a very traditional, literal reading of the text at times, but then other times based on the popular artistic expression that is part of western culture... where millions of slaves throw off the pyramid builders and march into the promised land... a similar problem occurs with Jesus Christ being depicted as a "superstar" that the whole world is talking about then suddenly "forgets" and so his "absence" from the non-Christian writers of the century he lived in is "suspicious" and fuels Mythicists). this is helpful because there are many today who probably feel they can't trust scholarship, that the evidence is irreconcilable with scripture and so must choose between blind faith in tradition or else become agnostic skeptics. overall, great stuff
When will you be on Rumble? I’ve been looking for you there.
Jimmy, can't remember if you addressed the reasons (if any) for the biblical text calling him the King (of Egypt) rather than the term Pharaoh and why that might be significant. if not, clarification in a future episode on this small point would be great.
Thank you Jimmy! ❤
Hello Dom and Jimmy. If I recall, Ramesses III's reign went well at first, but towards the end of his reign, it was somewhat ruined by plagues and a workers revolt. Could Ramesses III been the Pharaoh who argued with Moses?
Chariot wheels and human leg bones were found in the gulf of aqaba, as well as hebrew written on stones on a mountain above the crossing site concerning a large number of people crossing there.
This was an great episode, Jimmy. My only disagreement is that I think an early date (specifically 1446) is correct. I used to agree with the late date, and I don't have an issue with it per se, but ultimately I think that most of the pieces of evidence to support it (the Mernaptah Stele, Kenyon's dating of Jericho pottery, etc) are pretty circumstantial and can be plausibly interpreted the other way too.
However, I don't think the way the Jubilee years in the Babylonian Talmud and Seder 'Olam (when corrected/cross-referenced with Edwin Thiele's chronology of Israel's monarchs) match up so exactly with the Biblical dating from Solomon's beginning construction on the temple can be reasonably dismissed.
First, the way that the Jubilees identified in the Talmud (Josiah's 18th year and Ezekiel's vision in the 25th year of exile) are corrected from being 47 years apart to 49 when cross-referenced with Thiele's dates is strong confirmation that both Thiele's dates (which have a lot of confirmation beyond this) and the Talmud's identification of Jubilee years is correct (Ezekiel's vision is also implicitly identified as a Jubilee year within the Bible itself). And the way that all the Sabbath years alluded to in the Bible "click" into place when this happens reinforces both to the point that I don't think either can be reasonably denied.
And then the way that counting back from the Talmud and Sedar 'Olam's identification of Ezekiel's Jubilee as the 17th one matches up exactly with the Biblical dating from Solomon's building of the Temple to 1406 as the year of Israel's entry into Canaan mutually reinforces both the dating from Solomon and the Talmud/'Olam's identification of Jubilee years.
And the years of Solomon's reign, the post-Davidic kings, Josiah's 18th year, and Ezekiel's vision were all established independently of and prior to efforts to date the Exodus, and were unknown (and unknowable) to the writers of the Talmud/'Olam (whose own years are internally inconsistent as a result of not knowing the chronology) so there couldn't have been an attempt by them to identify their Jubilee years based on that (And again, Ezekiel itself implicitly states that his vision came on a Jubilee year, though it doesn't tell us which year it is, nor which Jubilee it is).
So basically, I settled to the early date because I see the issue as being a matter of murky circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted in multiple ways on one side, versus incredibly tight, multiply-attested data on the other side, with precision and multiple independent lines of corroboration that are nearly unheard of in ancient studies. I suspect that, without the influence of "the hermeneutics of suspicion," it would be the majority opinion if not considered near-unshakeable, and would certainly at the very least be given much more serious consideration than it is.
The one data point against the 1406 date that I think is more than a matter of interpretation is the C-14 dating of burned grains in Jericho that average around 100-200 years earlier (though this doesn't match the later date either, of course). However, my view here is that the C-14 dates should be recalibrated or simply give way in favor of stronger and more precise documentary evidence. A couple of the C-14 dates DO match up with the 1406 date or at least contain it within their margin of error, and there are a number of other areas where C-14 dates in the region end up 100-200 years earlier than dates in historical records. I think that in general scientists can tend to take to a sort of unwarranted rigidity and groupthink surrounding the certainty of C-14 dates and the unlikelihood of unknown variables affecting the calibration.
Thanks for a great episode! I have been interested in this subject ever since I read about the ipuwer papyrus
Now I realized how important telling the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac is...the historical value.
What about Ron Wyatt’s findings such as the Exodus, Noah’s Ark and Sodom and Gomorrah? Were these findings just a hoax? I’m not saying I believe his claims but I have seen the videos and they look possibly real. I do not however believe he found the ark of the covenant and his evidence for that was bad. If you could let me know what you think about Ron Wyatt’s findings that would be great! Thanks!
Israel built a military port on Yom Suf near Eilat. This is the gulf of Aqqaba, where reeds grow in the north end and crossing it puts you in Arabia, which is where we are told Sinai is, not in the "Sinai" peninsula.
The Impuwer papyrus mentions events similar to the 10 plagues.
Speaking of places like the pyramids and stone henge have you heard of Coral Castle? A guy in the 1900s built it out of giant rocks without modern machinery. Of course, there are all sorts of weird theories about how he did it and even some reasonable normal theories. This guy is even related to a famous song.
It was very modern tool for the time tho... dude built himself weird oscillators to power his tools, picture he had DC power line plugged to his truck, but he would pulse it as very slow 'AC', then he would plug his tools on the line to go with the 'program' so to speak, pulse goes up tool goes up, pulse goes down tools goes down, and in the shed you end up with a pile of random mechanical garbage meant to resonate in masonic style magic ratio... great guy.
I think I prefer mosaic authorship, the essay I think at the beginning of the ignatius press study bible printing of Genesis is sufficient for me
sea mites?
Hi Jimmy, do you have a video about the Jesuit conspiracy theories, and when were these conspiracy theories created ?
Not evidence for the exedous exactly, but there is some surprising archeological/geographical evidence for the events in the book of Exedous that took place at Mount Sinai.
This whole series by CIRA International is great, but particularly this episode shows a good deal of the most fascinating evidence:
ua-cam.com/video/23k2p5fmil8/v-deo.html
So, in summary, is the Prince of Egypt canon to our timeline or not?
You have to look to Prince of Egypt with heaven's eyes...
How can you possibly be taken seriously using false depictions of the Hebrew Israelite Jews?
Dom needs to lay off the cheesburgers like cmon bro.....like 9000 lbs
Small, evil, bad and annoying. So they haven't changed.
The entire story is romantic nonsense based on their expulsion by Nebuchadrezzar II to Babylon and the previous Assyrians expulsion. Not only was the Sinai under Egyptian control at the time their supposed trip took place, a fortress stood at the point where they supposedly crossed. None of it as any basis in reality.
Moses is another story they stole from the Babylonians, we all know about the epic of Gilgamesh...
Lol we cannot even agree on something that happened 10 years ago with the internet and photographic evidence, but 200 years is not too long for oral tradition... you have let your brains fall out.
I used to watch the History Channel too bro 👍🏻
If the case were closed as you propose, then you wouldn’t have competing academic theories among secular historians regarding the Exodus story. But you do. A search here on UA-cam will turn up lectures by several prominent academics each proposing different interpretations. If you have a background in academic history, you will know that very little about the ancient past in this region can be asserted with the confidence that you are showing, and that historians (especially of the ancient variety) always hedge their claims with “as far as we can tell” or “according to x sources.” We simply do not know with anything approaching certainty that the Exodus definitively didn’t happen. For example, how could we know there was a garrison at the supposed point of crossing when scholars don’t agree where that point might have been? Be careful about relying on one or two theses or taking this or that explanation as “settled science.” History isn’t a science and it doesn’t work that way.
Can you explain how the ark was built in the middle of the desert?