The Eotech is also the only optic with no forward light emissions. This is relevant when you are worried about your adversaries having night vision as well.
I honestly like them all for different reasons. I go with the Red Dot/ Magnifier combo more often than anything else just because I really value the quickness & ease of use the Red Dot offers, then being able to switch to magnification on demand. I live in the wooded mountains. I don't have a terribly high amount of sight lines over 200 yards around, so this works for me in most imaginable situations.
@@jeffheyer7783 Most magnifiers are 3x, but there are other options. I have multiple setups, but the EOTech with EOTech magnifier is fantastic if you don't mind spending the money. If you want to go a cheaper route, you can pickup a Holosun magnifier & optic for much cheaper & it will still be really good.
I've tried like hell and wasted alot of money mixing and matching abunch of different red dot / magnifier combos because ultimately that's how I wanted to run my rifle. I love having practically minimal parallax with a red dot and the option to flip magnification when necessary just seemed like the perfect build for me but I just could never get comfortable or become efficient as well as I do with an LPVO.
Something worth mentioning for newbies considering a dot/magnifier: Cheap dots (i.e. Romeo MSR) might look blurry/smeared through a magnifier. I think it has to do with emitter alignment and quality but either way it's much harder to aim precisely when your reticle looks like a banana.
After much of my own experimentation, I ended up settling on red dots + magnifier. RDSs are easier to shoot with passively under night vision without fussing with diopters, and the magnifier can be flipped or added back to give you that little bit of magnification you need to punch out at range. For non-night vision rifles it's more muddy, but generally I prefer 1 to 4-6 power LPVOs
@@Lifechanging99999 What are they going to do when they don't have a convenient laser beam tracing back to my exact firing position regardless of situation? I'm not sure why I have to explain why "making it difficult to be located" is a good thing.
I have a aimpoint comp m5 and a EOTech, a sign msr, an RMR, a Leupold 2-12x44. Got to say there is some freaking special sauce in the EOTech. It's my favorite for sure. One of the things I really got to say about these kind of videos as informative as they can be is that you really individually need to go out and see how your eyes handle different things. For example, many of the pros of a red. May be lost in somebody with an astigmatism. Similarly, there can be eye issues that make LPVOs really detrimental. Additionally, common use cases can qualify or disqualify each of these options. Some people may actually find that irons serves them far better than they would expect. This anyway has been my great revelation is getting to the range and finding something absolutely does not work for my eyes. Specific siding systems I cannot follow under duress. Other sighting systems are almost intuitive.
I’m blown away you only have 20k and change subscribers. This is truly high quality content, you’re knowledgeable, honest, and maybe most importantly, you are skilled at explaining complicated concepts and philosophies in a simple way. Perhaps the thing that impresses me the most is you are never ever afraid to shit on something, even your personal favorite optics. I don’t know too many people who will admit the shortcomings of their favored gear. P.S., your explanation of the Elcan Specter D.R. inspired me to grab one up when I stumbled on a fairly good sale price, about to throw it on a 13.7” that previously had an ACOG/ canted 407C. The moment you started going on and on about the amazing glass quality and the way the bigger objective lens makes for a bigger picture that makes the magnification seem like more than it is? That immediately resonated with me, and it was precisely then that I realized I’m going to mostly trust what you have to say unless I have firsthand knowledge or personal preferences that differ. Phenomenal content, friend.
Oh the gun-tuber game has been sleeping on B.F. (Nova) & Hoplephiel for AWHILE, but their started to come up, plus the younger crowd really relates to them in some ways they don't other BIG channels, their attitude, philosophies, and opinions combined with smart ass drunken humor we all can relate to. Plus their the MOST LIKE US.... DEFINITELY WILL GET A WIN FOR THE GUN-TUBER AWARDS IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.!!! just keep it up, and Hop & You etc. Get together and make some purpose driven shooting sessions filmed! Always great watch y'all do some unique NV, SPR, and short to mid range content.
Yeah everything you said is true. For myself, he went on about the Eotech 'battery tax' which was really an unfounded bias on his part - those things will run for 600 hours which is plenty of time for any user.
@@Kismetix ikr, I'm saving up for a GOOD optics setup for my main rifle a 13.9" either want a GOOD RDS OR EOTECH & MAGNIFIER, OR AN LPVO & OFFSET RDS. AS LONG AS I CAN POSITIVE ID THINGS AND MAKE CONSISTENT HITS OUT TO 400Y ..... THINKING AN EOTECH & MAGNIFIER WOULD DO GREAT..... YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER AROUND $400 OPTICS THAT ARE GOOD!???
You are the reason why I have gone with the acog. I actually just won an acog rmr setup on the broker for 850 but I got lucky. but I'm curious about those elcans. either way I also made my decision based off of realistic engagement distances in my suburban area since it just makes sense. also considering these fixed prism sights from primary arms. I can see the market changing relatively quickly
also since I have had my acog I have found that people see it as like a hipster choice almost like I am trying to be different for not going with an lpvo. it could just be me but I feel like the simplicity of a fixed zoom durable optic beats out the headache of keeping up to date with the lpvo gang
Acog Aurora for the win 💕 45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo.
I will add the advice that whatever setup you decide to run, TRAIN with it! Train with it in different situations and conditions (positions & lighting). Makes a world of difference on how well you can use it.
Love my TA31 with a Holosun 507c on top. I gave the ACOG a battery illumination just like the TA02 (instead of taping chemlights to it).It is called the REM ACOG (Reticle Enhancement Module). It has 11 brightness settings so it works in all light conditions. It covers half of the fiber optic so it reduces the Reticle Bloom in bright sunlight. It is made of the same 30% glass filled Polymer as AR pistol grips. Oh... It eliminates the need to replace a dead or dim tritium because you just turn the power to #1 and you have the soft glow for night time aiming. Great upgrade to the TA31! Illumination at your finger tips.
Great video. This is why I have multiple platforms with different optic setups for different uses. LPVO & Prism for a GPS rifle. RDS / Magnifier combo for shorter barrel applications where 300 yards is absolute max I'd use it. Also this setup on my NV platforms (no Magnifier but obviously with IR attachments). And with good prisms available these days, I don't even own an ACOG any longer. My one rifle that runs only an RDS is my duty rifle with a 16" pencil barrel. Potential engagement will typically be shorter range and I will be carrying my rifle more than using it, so weight is best kept as light as possible. Don't need a Magnifier adding weight & complexity to it. Just rifle, light, & RDS.
the area you shoot at is amazing! as a collector in Switzerland I've been trying all the setups you mentioned, but I've only ever shot to 100m on a flat range at the most. for now my preference lies with the RDS+magnifier setup but I like the one LPVO I have that I run with an offset Holosun rds.
The Rimworld threw me so hard. My wife was playing Rimworld while I was watching this and I had to stop the video a few times to check where the music was coming from 😂. Good video though! Just what I was looking for. I have an astigmatism and find the eye relief and weight of the LPVO to be personally difficult to work with. I’m also bad though, so there’s that…
In order to address the three options fairly you need to consider the top of the line mounts that fix the problems related to each. For example...the Unity FAST mount and Flip To Center system paired with the Eotech and thier new 5x magnifier. Or the ACOG with a high/rear set mount paired with an offset red dot. Each of these systems can come in for approximately $1,500.00. That sounds like a lot. But, when compared to the LVPO market that generally runs $1,000.00 to $3,000.00 then the cost begins to have some value. It also helps to realize that most of these sighting systems are being marketed and utilized on 5.56mm setups. This means a bullet that is designed arround an effective range of about 550 meters. In that context the 4x ACOG, the 5x Eotech, or the 6x Aimpoint begin to compete strongly. For the cost, weight, ease of use, ability to hand that weapon system off to a new user, etc. These systems can be far supperior. Just my 2 cents. Hope that helps.
Agreed. Recently picked up the new PA micro 3x, weighs basically nothing and has a very good view through it. Can't comment on durability. Also have a Vortex 5x micro prism but that's a bit too much magnification with an eyebox that's too tight for anything but precision. My experience with LVPO's is spend $2k+ or just don't bother. I feel like a 2.5-10x is a better option than most LVPO's tbh since the LVPO's just make too many compromises.
I’m happy with my 1-6x vcog on a quick detach AC12033(bobro mount) also enjoy practicing close in quick shots just using irons. Noticed in the video the Steiner 1-4x, that is a great value
new subscriber, I am glad i ran into your channel. This video, has a lot of great info, especially for me, retired USMC, and just wanting to build one of my own, you have easily answered a shit ton of my questions. I even watched it times today! I thank you, and looking fwd to more of your down to earth great videos! You earned my subscription gladly.
Recently I've slapped my Acog/ Holosun 507C combo on my 12.5 inch AR15. ON A KRAM mount, ive been able to mitigate the eye relief issue. Plus, beings in the PNW, visibility for an "Inda woods" engagement would be suitable for a 4x optic where im not too concerned for a 500+ shot (potential, yet not super common. Id probably switch up to a differnt caliber/ optic style if i was to prepare for 600 or 700+ engagements). Having a holosun on top would be decent for the closer engagements/ Urban environment where im less concerned about chin welds, and more focused on quick rounds in a tight squeeze environment. Overall i enjoy this little set up, and look forward to putting your considerations in mind for the next time i go out with it! Thank you for this video! It was very informative! Keep up the content!
I second this the PA slx 3x is amazing! I own an eotech vudu, Vortex razor, eotech xps3-0 and 3 acogs for the money the clarity and that ACSS reticle it a slam dunk! Its like a modern day lighter acog at a quarter of the price
@@christianknight2905 if you think the eye box is short might want to give an lpvo 1-6x a try but don't think it's that short at all for scopes in general' but if not happy with those try 1x power optics will be the only thing left' but won't try 4x acog, a 3x trijicon acog has one of the longest eyebox I've seen but reticle options and the trade off is less viewing at distance
IMO, after having countless acogs, elcans, and magnified red dots, I really really genuinely believe the TA33 is the best fighting rifle magnified optic. The PA3x gets a nod if you're on a budget as I feel it gets pretty close but lacks the eye relief and quickness of the TA33. (I actually use a PA3x because it gets me most the things I like with the TA33 but allows me to passively aim since I can adjust the brightness.) If you want more magnification and more bias to distance, you really need a bipod and a good scope to make use of it. Magnification much over 3-4x really starts needing a parallax dial and a very stable shooting position to use.
TA33 or TA11 are cool but even with the RDS i think ''esp'' in a commie state that it would run poorly with nods simply because you cannot easily adjust the stock
interesting take. I'm inclined to lean towards this attitude. that being said, I run LPVOs because of the nice balance of performance, price, and magnification. just used the sig 4x and the eye relief and eye box are trash but the glass clarity is fantastic and the reticle is good too. I still like it and can recognize it's utility as a fighting rifle optic. Would love to try a TA33
My training and experience is mainly with fixed-power prism optics and I find them to be my ideal set up for two reasons: Magnification is great for identification, and Nothing to mess with while shooting. I use a laser or flashlight for point shooting in close ranges(sub 100yds), so anything where I'm looking down the sights benefits from the magnification, especially the ability to identify my target. Not having anything to mess with while shooting ties into the point shooting method where I want to be able to load and go for my weapon. No dials to adjust, no magnifier to toggle, etc. BDC reticles mean I can just interact with what I see in the scope and my two hands are immediately on the controls while also handling the weapon. Pressure switches, safety, and trigger are the only manipulations I need and they are already there without needing to move my hands. I tried the Red dot and found it lacking in the reticle in terms of feedback and I found an LPVO takes my focus away from my surroundings and instead I was pulled inward to fooling with the dials or illumination so it makes the weapon less of an extension and more of a burden to Work Around rather than Working With.
@@kill.z0n3 Primary Arms 5x for my .308 and iron sights for my 5.56 while I save for a good red dot, probably a mid tier aimpoint. Though I'm comfortable with Iron sights and should probably just spend that money on training ammo.
I've check out a primary arms 3x for a decent starter optic for out to 300 yards with a AR15. Red dots are ok for 200 or less if you have a good zero. Otherwise I'd say start out on irons until you can hit a man sized target at 100. A red dot doesn't really give you a reference point if you're optic isn't zeroed and have nothing else to go off of.
@@luckyomen the 3x primary arms microprism is pretty sweet. I’ve shot mine to 515 yds or so relatively easily. And it’s pretty useful up close too. It’s hard to beat
Great video! I would like to see you do a video with the best of these options and run shooters through a unknown distances with target identification and engagement course of fire. 3 shooting distances of 75, 250 and 500 with 10 different targets, at the beep the shooter would be given 5 targets to find, ID and engage. Time with hits and misses along with wrong targets engaged to make a score, may the best optic win. And while I'm here with video ideas and being very envious of your range and the topography. I would love to see a video on different camouflage patterns in the different vegetation that you have there.
Used to swear by the TA33 ACOG due to it’s quickness and great eye relief, but now the TR25 1-6x Accupoint w/Red Triangle Post reticle is my go-to. Like it’s ACOG sibling no batteries needed, and plenty of practical accuracy for general usage out to 350-400 yards.
I'm a fan of SFP LPVO scopes. After buying my first one I'd like to ditch the BDC reticle and just have MOA or mil holdovers. Also I now realize eye relief and eyebox forgiveness are paramount. Also, hot take, budget LPVOs suck a lot more than I thought they would
@@armadilloeggs231 cheaper. I bought the sig tango with the included mount. The mount is great, the optic sucks. I know I got what I paid for but I wanted to see if I even like the idea of an LPVO. The jury is still out.
I prefer SFP LPVOs myself and I run a budget PA slx 1-6 and I quite like it. I would like some more clarity and will upgrade given the chance. But ill most likely stick with this style. I prefer more versatile setups and this makes me effective from 0-400m. Totally agree about the reticle choice. I still use a 36 yard zero with mine
@@CiviTac I haven't ran a fixed with a piggyback optic but I'm not really interested. I just want a single optic for a more simple setup. I would like to try a fixed power, but I don't have any decent ones at the moment.
I went with the acog because of needing the magnification, but I like to orient everything over the idea of being able to pack it out, so durability and weight are my two biggest concerns
I have a TA-11 ACOG and a TA-24 Trijicon Accupoint 1x6. The ACOG is much easier to use and is amazingly clear. The FOV is great as well. I am considering another ACOG for the .308 that currently has the Accupoint. I may stick with it anyway, though. Life is full of these difficult decisions!
Primary arms fan boi here. Griffin 1x8 is amazing Great take on the optic dilemma. I am leaning more towards prisms & lpvos as my eyes get worse with age.
lots of great points to think about. Recently decided to upgrade from my first cheap rds to something more rugged (fell off the gun the first time I did anything beyond shooting from the bench, lol). Also, I like the Rimworld sound track!
I found the 3x magnifier from Primary Arms with a quick release LaRue Tactical Mount to be an affordable option that works good. I carved the rubber coating off the magnifier and replaced it with grip tape and it's very nicely compact and lighter. Also, I have the Holosun RD with ACSS reticle great for CQB and which magnifies nicely.
Wow. Next level insight into these options. I’m confused but In a good way. I’ve got a red dot, lpvo, and mpvo. Was considering ditching the lpvo for a second red dot. But after this video i think I’ll keep the lpvo. They all have a place.
Just wish a vortex would make a fixed power 6x scope with a venom mini red dot integrated onto the top where the elevation turret would normally be. Then just move the elevation turret to the opposite side of the windage turret. Saves on weight of variable zoom and extra mounting hardware.
Fellow lefty here: try switching your magnifiers so they flip over to the right. The portion of your peripheral vision they block is already mostly blocked by your support arm and they bump up against you and your gear instead of rocks and shit.
LPVO with a SFP reticle is way better than a FFP. Due to what you mentioned about it being so small at 1x on FFP. I’m not concerned at my holdover for 600yds unless I’m at full zoom anyways.
I agree but I actually kept my nx8 dmx over the atacr for weight n size….. atacr is better but to me not enough for weight…. My issue is nx8 and plxc…. Got both and I can’t get rid of either love them both
I think inevitably most dudes are gonna have to just arrive though trial and error. I tried dots and magnifiers and I tried LPVOs, eventually elcan OS4X fixed 4x and dot is where I landed. Solid video as always my guy 👍
This dude nailed the head on all of this. It's a tough choice! I own high end LPVO's, and acog, eotechs, and aimpoints. They're just all great its difficult to choose a single fav
I have a Leupold pig Plex 1.5 x 4 on one of my ARs sitting in an aero mount. 9 ounces plus 3 ounce mount for about 12 ounces for what ARs are capable of. It definitely fits MY bill. Simple red dots are nice. Especially in the 150$ dollar range imo. Fixed 3x mag optics or others simliar I'm getting used to, but don't love. Would be nice on some kind of patrol rifle or .308 battle rifle then an AR imo.
Overall a great commentary. I think that the LPVO is really only good for a DMR/SPR rig. Other than that the 4x32/3x30 ACOG is still absolutely the way to go. Smaller, lighter, simpler, tougher. Get to know your rifle and its caliber at different ranges and wind speeds and you'd be surprised at how 4x is totally sufficient. Don't go out on a limb looking for the great gadget that makes you a better shooter. Just learn how to freagg'n shoot. Any quality rifle is more accurate than the shooter anyway.
But the whole point with the magnifying red dot is to have good sight picture from 50 to 150 yards. If you're going past that range i would go with the lpvo. Most combat situations that a common person would encounter would be between 10 to maybe 100 yards. Just my 2 cents I guess
For people who worry about batteries running out on a red dot: If we ever reach the point where as a society we become incapable of producing/obtaining batteries; and your red dot finally runs dry after 5+ years of constant on; and you have somehow survived for 5+ years in this scenario; congratulations. You are probably one of the last men alive on whatever Earth this is.
Agreed at that point, you could easily find a solution like irons or a etched reticle. You had 5-10 years to solve that problem (batteries can last 10 years unused).
@@griffyrule6553 Batteries can last far longer than 10 years if stored properly, just that their capacity starts to nose dive after a decade. Still usable, but the life will not be great.
battery life on a usable setting is about a year bro..... the 30,000 Plus hours the company's all claim is on a bullshit setting 7 LOL. change batteries once a year, golden.
@@mrdark9916 Where I'm at setting 8/9 on an Aimpoint is plenty bright for daylight use. I don't live in Arizona or somewhere super bright and reflective though. There's a lot of tree cover where I live, and the weather is pretty variable.
Running a TR24 with a piggybacked 509T red dot has worked great for me as a nightvision user. Might upgrade the tr24 eventually, but I don't have very far sightlines where I live so it's not a big deal.
Really good informative content for people comparing their options! I think you are dead on with LPVO’s. Despite how far the tech has come, they are mediocre to poor performance at 1x and their top end is decent, but the eyebox gets tight and they are easily out classed by light weight 2-10’s at distance. Red dots are fine, point and shoot, most people don’t have a clue on how to zero a magnifier and I have seen newer shooters chasing a zero flipping back and forth between the magnifier. I have found myself back at the ACOG + red dot setup as optimal for most everything. Your point about training is crucial. Obviously you should always train with your gear, but the ACOG specifically requires training in various scenarios to get it right. Once you “get it” with the ACOG, it is hard to go back. Love these style videos man. Good shit!
Lpvos in general are considerably more “breakable” than an acog or t2. Worth considering when discussing a red dawn situation. If anything this highlights the importance of mission driven tools, in which packing out 1 of (at minimum) 2 rifles will be regular and the need for beefy gear will be evident, potentially painfully so when it’s too late to redo things.
Really good analysis and I came to the same conclusion about the LPVO being the most general and overall the best for the average shooter, the Red Dot and ACOG as being more niche and specialized
Red dots are susceptible to two forms of aiming error: cheaply manufactured glass that distorts either the dot or the image of the target passing through the objective "lens" (it's not really doing any lensing, just reflecting of the emitter's red light) which is noticeable most commonly near the edges of the glass, and lateral displacement of the dot on the target when not centering the dot inside the optic window. The second one is frequently attributed to "parallax", but actual parallax issues (like on iron sights or scopes) introduce an angular error-- like being off by 1MOA-- which makes you miss your shot by a greater distance the farther out you're shooting. Red dots, meanwhile, have their reticle dots projected at infinity and do not suffer from parallax. Instead, when shooting targets at ranges closer than infinity, they introduce a displacement error. The good news is that the amount of the error is bounded by the size of your window. On something like a Romeo5 which has a 20mm diameter window a properly zeroed optic will cause you to miss by at most 10mm even if you're squeezing off shots while looking at the target through the edge of the window. The most important thing to do to minimize both sources of error is to ensure that the dot is in the centre of your optic but don't sweat it if it isn't-- you won't miss by much.
I just found your channel. I really like it. Your voice and details can keep my attention when i am interested. Yet i can also fall asleep watching when its bed time. I like the Eotech Holo Sights with fixed iron sights riding at 1/3rd below. My Coyote rifles have 2x7's, and my hunting rifles much better. Thanks so much for making these videos.
I have a primary arms 5x prism optic coming in the mail today. Basically a poor mans acog except with a better reticle ( ACSS aurora M). I picked it in part from your videos based on the acog. It was also lighter and cheaper than an lpvo with a mount. Wish this video had dropped last week before I bought it lol. Love your videos. Keep up the good stuff
Vortex has a six times prism scope I was tempted to look at it makes me a bit nervous that is that magnified but maybe with a red dot on top it'd be more viable
I also have one, great and cheap. However, less than half the FOV. So, it's like a poormans acog with a toilet paper roll taped to the end. still, prism master race.
EOTech's are a holographic weapon sight with a 1MOA dot in the center. The reason it doesn't magnify is because it isn't a red dot. Holographic weapon sights remain 1MOA under magnification. Battery does suck on Holographic weapon sights but there are several other advantages to having a holo dot instead of a standard red dot.
@@taylorcompton7688 The dot stays the same size in relation to the target, but gets bigger as your eye perceives it. I have been using EOTech since the 553 and they all do this. They don’t use LEDs, but they aren’t magic either. The hologram is still subject to magnification.
28:42 foe the ones wondering what is the whole BDC thing mentioned means. It is Bullet Drop Compensation, as far as I understand feom having it looked up
Great video. A couple things regarding the acog setup. If you install the acog at the end of the pic rail the eye relief issue is drastically improved. I don’t run backup iron sights with my acog/red dot combo. It would take a near death experience to render the acog inoperable so having two extra forms of sighting is overkill in my opinion. If you really want to keep the irons you can install the rear iron sight forward of the acog. Having proper eye relief on my sight is way more important than the placement of a back up aiming system. Second, give a red dot on a 45* offset mount a try. You can retain a cheek weld by simply canting the rifle over. Feels much more intuitive as opposed to lifting your head up off the gun.
I got to disagree when you 45 a rds your giving yourself a way to get hung up moving in the field. I like ACOG irons there far from the best irons but good enough to get the job done at close quarters but you do lose your cheek weld
@@Thatguywiththeface A 45’d RDS sticks out the same amount as a weapon mounted light does. Most of us aren’t going into “the field” and crawling through thick brush. Active duty military can’t run a 45* offset mount because their dictated by their SOP’s. Elite units can do what they want within reason. If you find yourself in a situation where the accessories sticking out 1.5” are getting hung up on bushes, vines etc. then sling the rifle behind your back, chances are your just a civilian and don’t need the rifle at the ready to engage Charlie in a danger close suicide mission.
@@knuckleduster69 I’m not your average civilian don’t like weapons lights either for the same reason. Skull dragging in a ghillie suit is a challenge alone. And before you make a remark about it I made it myself and with a marsoc marines guidance sir.. this country is starting to go under and I plan on evading as much as I can. Living in the mountains in Oregon I don’t need cqb as much as a guy in the city will my Glock 19x has night sights and a tlr 7 if I need close quarter. So now you know my terrain and plan still think I need a 45 rds or light on my rifle?
I have really been enjoying the 1x prism and a magnifier as of late. If someone made a good variable power magnifier then it would hands down be one of the best SHTF options. On the other hand FFP LPVOs are getting much better now that they have figured out how to make a reticle that is usable at 1x while it is super tiny because FFP lol. In my opinion a SFP LPVO is stupid because you then only have accurate BDC markings at one magnification setting, but i would also say that untill recently there weren't very many FFP options that worked well at 1x.
After trying all the options I’m finding the Eotech & magnifier combo works best for me. Specifically I have an EXPS3-0 & Holosun Titanium 3x magnifier. Second choice is an lpvo, but man that eyebox at max magnification is rough.
@@civicsr2cool I have a bunch of eye issues (glasses, astigmatism, early signs of glaucoma) so what works for me will probably not work for very many other folks. The two setups are on guns with very different purposes so I guess I should’ve gone into more detail. For a shorter barreled gun used mainly for home defense & situations within 100-150 yards I prefer the Eotech/magnifier combo. On the longer barreled gun used for pest control & walking my property (25 acres) I prefer the lpvo. If it came down to it I could use either gun for either purpose, I just find myself being more comfortable with the Eotech setup.
@@cagneybillingsley2165 unless you run nightvision because for me acog with a backup red dot I can never get a good sight picture with my nods with it offset it doesn’t matter which degree it just doesn’t do it for me.
Optics choice depends on the environment you live in. I live in an area that is heavily wooded and there are very few instances that I would have to make a shot greater than 300 yds a 1-4 LPVO with a simple reticle works for me because it’s faster for CQB sight acquisition and I still have the ability to dial up magnification for longer shots and target ID. Someone living in an area with a lot of open land would be better served by something with more magnification and a more complex reticle with bdc
I love my ACOG ta31 ecos! The rmr is nice as well and very accurate. I love the fact that it uses tritium and doesn’t need batteries (only for the rmr) . I usually have to put black electrical tape when outside over the fiber optic due to too much light in the crosshairs. I got mine due to the fact that it is battle tested and in a shtf scenario, you don’t need batteries for the scope plus I love the clarity of this scope. I was army infantry years ago (back in the 90’s) and we weren’t fortunate to have these back then. Only had open sights on our m16 a2’s (although I was a 60 gunner and rarely had the 16) . My ar’s are mainly safe queens now due to the fact that some assholes screwed it up for everyone at the outdoor range I used to shoot at and the owner shut it down. At least I figure I’m conserving ammo now to say the least.
Well as a poor boi who has been running fixed irons on my 16" 556 gun for about 2 years, you have successfully convinced me to focus on finding an acceptably durable and functional 1-6x LPVO for my optics set up.... Now to begin budgeting for that 😢
My favourite is something like a x1 to whatever with a top mounted red dot for passive aiming, faster aiming when at longer distance. Better for running and gunning with a red dot. Can get down in to the LPVO as needed
I'm a big fan of the red dot/magnifier combo, for all the reasons you mentioned. Unlimited eye relief/ no parallax can come in handy in awkward shoting positions, and it's basically a modular sighting system you can add to/subtract from/hand off to a buddy, as needed. It's less precise but with my GPR and local terrain I'm fine with it. On peace support missions we found being able to get magnification on something without pointing our rifles at it could avoid "misunderstandings" so it's nice to have one you can pull off your rifle without worrying about your zero.
Great video. Super informative and broke down some of the "common wisdom" crap for me. On a seperate note: where was this filmed? Absolutely beautiful.
@ approx 30:16 This is very interesting to me. I own a Kel Tec RDB 20" and I "frankensteined" together (through great effort and much expense lmao) a mounting method for getting my flip up front sight out to the actual end of my rifle as opposed to up on top of the optics rail. While I Initially only did so for the increase in sight radius, it soon became apparent that the front sight when flipped up actually cowitnesses perfectly with my lpvo reticle in 1x as long as my head is in the "correct" position. It also helps to actually find and use the reticle unilluminated which is a much bigger plus then I would have ever thought. Didn't know this was something the military actually taught at any point. 😅
For me the most important thing is to understand your own priorities & limitations. My main limitation is budget/cost. My setup for a optic is set at less than 200 yards, low cost, light weight & small footprint. My compromise & choice: Fixed 3x Prism scope. It weighs 11 oz., is small, has a 5.5" eye relief, decent sized eye box, etched glass with optional illumination & is very robust. The cost is less than $150. It is not perfect or as flexible as a LVPO, but it is much cheaper, lighter, smaller, with greater eye relief & eye box & is a set & forget optic. A Red Dot is better in everyway for close ranges, but at distances great than 50', the 3x Prism shines. Since I have dedicated rifles for long distances, with real scopes, a 3x Prism is my choice for my main battle rifle, since I live in a urban area & I am not planning on the use of this rifle in the mountains of Afghanistan or deserts of Iraq. At this point, for the money, ACOG's should be much better, but for whatever reason they have not made many improvement since they were first adopted for military's use. I should add, at the low to mid-end price point 3x Magnifiers for Red Dots, are big, heavy, expensive, fragile & shrink the eye relief & eye box to much less than a LVPO or 3x Prism.
Great vid with a solid perspective. Terrain and environment are key factors in a lot of those decisions. The area I see y'all "playin" in is very different from my playground in the middle NC woodlands. Everything is some kindof compromise.. 🤠
Yes it was helpful. Right at the end of the video the guy that was shooting braced on a grey SUV. "I hope that wasn't yours". Every spent round scratched the clear coat. I have most of what your talking about. I hate Eotechs, I've had them and hate the radical. I have red dots on most of my guns. My mid range AR has a Vortex red dot and Flip up magnifier. I have never had sighting issues with it. I hate ACOGS. I would never look through one after the first time I did. I wondered about the LPVO. I've seen them but didn't know anything about them. I'm happy with what I have until I have a problem. Thanks for the video.
Eotech and red dot gets you out to a minimum 200y , some practice and a little skill will get you to 300. The issue is target ID, that's where the magnification comes in. If Eotech could up the battery life, which I understand is difficult, it would be my go to urban optic with a magnifier in my bag. It is just so easy for me to pick up the reticle quickly. I do use all three tho.
I have run an ACOG and RMR combo for a bit of time. I am a right haded shooter and when I need tk work closer in I kant the rifle until the RMR is in my left eye. Quick switch from one to the other and maintajn a good cheek weld
As someone new to rifle shooting it seems like RD/MAG is probably the best for newer shooters. Cheap, rugged, versatile and best option for night vision. LPVO is the best for non night vision shooting if you have the money, and ACOG/RD for someone who’s experienced and wants something niche and specific.
Just wanted to throw this out there having spent several hundred hours going down this rabbit hole The best aiming solution I found for a SHTF gun was a ta31 red crosshair and Holosun 508t w the B5 enhanced Sopmod stock The stock is key due to its shape it feels like you have a cheek weld when you pop your head up to the rds Great video just my 2 cents I don’t run night vision tho
I never really understood why someone worries about a 2 or 3 MOA dot being big at 300 yards. 99.9% of civilians will never have an issue with that, because we likely will not really be out there snooping and pooping engaging a target that far out. I think whatever system works for you to get on target at 50 yards or so, super fast, is all that matters. If you find yourself in a situation where a target is further than that, you probably should be seeking cover, and wait for them to close on you, then handle your business. I think it boils down to the persons eyesight. As we get older, that LPVO will be more handy, especially if you had to place more detailed shots, even at that 50 yard range. (Plus, as we get older, we are not going to be running and gunning....The hip and knee joints just don't hold up to it.)
It's wild the distances you have where you live. Reminds me of Iraq. I live in the hills so I just run red dots and 3x9 scopes (generally separately) . I've been wanting to branch out into prisms, if they're acceptable for a flat lander such as yourself I imagine they should be more than adequate for me.
So my setups as followed: 1 to 10 lpvo and top mounted rds for .30hate power and distance SPR setup 4x Acog and top mount rds for shtf piston ar15 summer/spring 1.5x acog for shtf winter/fall ak setup 1 to 8 lpvo w/ rds top mounted for GPR DI ar15 Rds w/ magnifier on night vision/ close range SBR .300bo supressed Etched reticle 1x rds on PDW 300bo /9mm/ .45 . The reason for a rds on my lvpo and acog is not just for if I want to use for night vision or close range but top mounted rds help with shooting at awkward and weird positions which would be common in modern day rifle fighting and also more strategic to fight in weird positions your adversaries probably wouldn't even expect to be shot at in. try to shoot under a car or sideways through a magnified optic alone and watch all your shots hit everyone and their dog behind the target. Rds top mounted are very useful for more than nv and close range.
You can get Holosun to warranty the loose mount for the magnifier. I love the glass on their magnifiers. The mount is a little better on their new 3x micro titanium.
I'm at the point where I can't have a good time if I don't have a full power milliradian scope. But i know its not a practical setup for many scenarios But shooting out west in Utah its just better to have mills and higher magnification but mostly the long range style turrets are the most important thing to me. Being able to read wind with paralax adjustments but also being able to dial for elevation with a zero stop. I actually emailed Trijicon telling them they need to make a fixed 6,8 and 10 power ACOG line with full feature turrets on them and a spot to mount a red dot on top That would be my ideal scope, an ACOG with a milliradian christmas tree, locking dialable turrets with an elevation zero stop, 10 mills per rotation, trijicon level glass, and a paralax adjustment
Check into a SWFA fixed 6x44 with a tube mounted RMR. I'm running the 10x on my SPR, and it's been an amazing setup. The 6x is a bit more magnification than what you prefer, but having a mil reticle, durable package and at a much lower cost than the ACOG has been a real winner for me.
@@linkg99e3zR tbh it depends on your scope mounts. If your scope is low, it should be fine to clear the height. Otherwise, just cant your dot off your rail.
@@linkg99e3zR basically, if you can't keep your height above bore under 4.5" to 4.7" or so for a 12 o'clock mounted dot, run it at a 45° offset. I think mine, sitting on my top mount, is right at 4.6" It's high, for sure. I'm having to do a chin weld to get sight picture through it, but running with a 75 yd zero on that gives me no more than a 5" point of aim to point of impact difference from 25 to 300 yds. I typically use the scope for around 150 to 200+ but it can be pretty awkward if your mount is too low. Mount it at a 12 o'clock, and see if it's comfortable for you to aim through. It works pretty well for me, but I've got a big head so... lmao
Buy all three and then run whatever is trendy that month so you never feel left out.
done!
No no no, just have three identical rifles except for the optic. If you are too poor for that, three uppers.
The Eotech is also the only optic with no forward light emissions. This is relevant when you are worried about your adversaries having night vision as well.
I have a GEN 1 hand held monocular. I didn’t believe it at first. It’s a dead giveaway.
the holosun holographic optic has forward emissions as well?
If someone has thermal it's all over anyway
If that's a concern, you can just leave the front covered and aim with both eyes.
@@CallofWar5
Since when has Holosun a holographic optic?
Brass facts in the morning. Now this is a true morning cartoon.
Kinda mean
I honestly like them all for different reasons.
I go with the Red Dot/ Magnifier combo more often than anything else just because I really value the quickness & ease of use the Red Dot offers, then being able to switch to magnification on demand.
I live in the wooded mountains.
I don't have a terribly high amount of sight lines over 200 yards around, so this works for me in most imaginable situations.
What magnification did you settle on?? What’s your setup?
@@jeffheyer7783 Most magnifiers are 3x, but there are other options.
I have multiple setups, but the EOTech with EOTech magnifier is fantastic if you don't mind spending the money.
If you want to go a cheaper route, you can pickup a Holosun magnifier & optic for much cheaper & it will still be really good.
@@jeffheyer7783I believe most people like 3x magnifiers.
Agreed the magnifier holo/RDS setup is incredibly versatile and for me almost always excel over the LPVO.
I've tried like hell and wasted alot of money mixing and matching abunch of different red dot / magnifier combos because ultimately that's how I wanted to run my rifle. I love having practically minimal parallax with a red dot and the option to flip magnification when necessary just seemed like the perfect build for me but I just could never get comfortable or become efficient as well as I do with an LPVO.
Just get a 3x magnified optic. Very capable at CQB distances and can always add a red dot at 45 or above optic.
@@TerminalM193 all personal preference, I guess.
SuperSetCA: ua-cam.com/video/jilqXipJFm0/v-deo.html
I say it depends on your range, but some high quality LPVO definitely compete.
Something worth mentioning for newbies considering a dot/magnifier: Cheap dots (i.e. Romeo MSR) might look blurry/smeared through a magnifier. I think it has to do with emitter alignment and quality but either way it's much harder to aim precisely when your reticle looks like a banana.
Also astigmatism can cause that, so even an aimpoint looks smeared to me.
3moa dot vs 2moa dot
Prism sights are the solution to astigmatism
@@dothwalrus370 the difference Is that the dot will look that way even without a magnifier if you bad astigmatisms.
So as long as you get a quality RDS to go with the good magnifier then precise aiming out to 400+ is absolutely possible.!.???
After much of my own experimentation, I ended up settling on red dots + magnifier. RDSs are easier to shoot with passively under night vision without fussing with diopters, and the magnifier can be flipped or added back to give you that little bit of magnification you need to punch out at range.
For non-night vision rifles it's more muddy, but generally I prefer 1 to 4-6 power LPVOs
Why would you want to “passively” shoot with night vision?
@@Lifechanging99999 In case someone else has night vision?
@@jarvy251what are you going to do when they hear you? Just stay within a small area. SLLS.
@@Lifechanging99999 What are they going to do when they don't have a convenient laser beam tracing back to my exact firing position regardless of situation? I'm not sure why I have to explain why "making it difficult to be located" is a good thing.
@@jarvy251 lol let me guess you were in the military?
I have a aimpoint comp m5 and a EOTech, a sign msr, an RMR, a Leupold 2-12x44.
Got to say there is some freaking special sauce in the EOTech. It's my favorite for sure.
One of the things I really got to say about these kind of videos as informative as they can be is that you really individually need to go out and see how your eyes handle different things.
For example, many of the pros of a red. May be lost in somebody with an astigmatism.
Similarly, there can be eye issues that make LPVOs really detrimental.
Additionally, common use cases can qualify or disqualify each of these options.
Some people may actually find that irons serves them far better than they would expect.
This anyway has been my great revelation is getting to the range and finding something absolutely does not work for my eyes. Specific siding systems I cannot follow under duress. Other sighting systems are almost intuitive.
I’m blown away you only have 20k and change subscribers. This is truly high quality content, you’re knowledgeable, honest, and maybe most importantly, you are skilled at explaining complicated concepts and philosophies in a simple way. Perhaps the thing that impresses me the most is you are never ever afraid to shit on something, even your personal favorite optics. I don’t know too many people who will admit the shortcomings of their favored gear. P.S., your explanation of the Elcan Specter D.R. inspired me to grab one up when I stumbled on a fairly good sale price, about to throw it on a 13.7” that previously had an ACOG/ canted 407C. The moment you started going on and on about the amazing glass quality and the way the bigger objective lens makes for a bigger picture that makes the magnification seem like more than it is? That immediately resonated with me, and it was precisely then that I realized I’m going to mostly trust what you have to say unless I have firsthand knowledge or personal preferences that differ. Phenomenal content, friend.
Victor- ACOGs are great optics but they was originally designed for a 16 inch carbine. I hope you enjoy your new Elcan spec!
About to break 50k now
Oh the gun-tuber game has been sleeping on B.F. (Nova) & Hoplephiel for AWHILE, but their started to come up, plus the younger crowd really relates to them in some ways they don't other BIG channels, their attitude, philosophies, and opinions combined with smart ass drunken humor we all can relate to. Plus their the MOST LIKE US.... DEFINITELY WILL GET A WIN FOR THE GUN-TUBER AWARDS IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.!!! just keep it up, and Hop & You etc. Get together and make some purpose driven shooting sessions filmed! Always great watch y'all do some unique NV, SPR, and short to mid range content.
Yeah everything you said is true. For myself, he went on about the Eotech 'battery tax' which was really an unfounded bias on his part - those things will run for 600 hours which is plenty of time for any user.
@@Kismetix ikr, I'm saving up for a GOOD optics setup for my main rifle a 13.9" either want a GOOD RDS OR EOTECH & MAGNIFIER, OR AN LPVO & OFFSET RDS. AS LONG AS I CAN POSITIVE ID THINGS AND MAKE CONSISTENT HITS OUT TO 400Y ..... THINKING AN EOTECH & MAGNIFIER WOULD DO GREAT..... YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER AROUND $400 OPTICS THAT ARE GOOD!???
RCO mounts that bring the optic rearward such as the larue, GDI, or a KRAM riser makes the TA31 much easier to use.
GDI mount is great, never tried the others, but they're pretty much necessary if using a fixed stock.
Do they interfere with the charging handle at all?
@@borkwoof696 no more than normal mounts
You are the reason why I have gone with the acog. I actually just won an acog rmr setup on the broker for 850 but I got lucky. but I'm curious about those elcans. either way I also made my decision based off of realistic engagement distances in my suburban area since it just makes sense. also considering these fixed prism sights from primary arms. I can see the market changing relatively quickly
also since I have had my acog I have found that people see it as like a hipster choice almost like I am trying to be different for not going with an lpvo. it could just be me but I feel like the simplicity of a fixed zoom durable optic beats out the headache of keeping up to date with the lpvo gang
@@SuperMrBguy also laugh in their face with 36 feet of FOV at 100
The new PA prisms are awesome!!
Elcan is nice
Acog Aurora for the win 💕 45° offset holosun micro for cqb. Better glass, light transmission, reticle, fov, reliability, and cqb than any other option. Less weight and price than lpvo.
I will add the advice that whatever setup you decide to run, TRAIN with it! Train with it in different situations and conditions (positions & lighting). Makes a world of difference on how well you can use it.
Love my TA31 with a Holosun 507c on top. I gave the ACOG a battery illumination just like the TA02 (instead of taping chemlights to it).It is called the REM ACOG (Reticle Enhancement Module). It has 11 brightness settings so it works in all light conditions. It covers half of the fiber optic so it reduces the Reticle Bloom in bright sunlight. It is made of the same 30% glass filled Polymer as AR pistol grips. Oh... It eliminates the need to replace a dead or dim tritium because you just turn the power to #1 and you have the soft glow for night time aiming. Great upgrade to the TA31! Illumination at your finger tips.
Great video. This is why I have multiple platforms with different optic setups for different uses.
LPVO & Prism for a GPS rifle. RDS / Magnifier combo for shorter barrel applications where 300 yards is absolute max I'd use it. Also this setup on my NV platforms (no Magnifier but obviously with IR attachments). And with good prisms available these days, I don't even own an ACOG any longer.
My one rifle that runs only an RDS is my duty rifle with a 16" pencil barrel. Potential engagement will typically be shorter range and I will be carrying my rifle more than using it, so weight is best kept as light as possible. Don't need a Magnifier adding weight & complexity to it. Just rifle, light, & RDS.
the area you shoot at is amazing!
as a collector in Switzerland I've been trying all the setups you mentioned, but I've only ever shot to 100m on a flat range at the most. for now my preference lies with the RDS+magnifier setup but I like the one LPVO I have that I run with an offset Holosun rds.
The Rimworld threw me so hard. My wife was playing Rimworld while I was watching this and I had to stop the video a few times to check where the music was coming from 😂.
Good video though! Just what I was looking for. I have an astigmatism and find the eye relief and weight of the LPVO to be personally difficult to work with. I’m also bad though, so there’s that…
In order to address the three options fairly you need to consider the top of the line mounts that fix the problems related to each. For example...the Unity FAST mount and Flip To Center system paired with the Eotech and thier new 5x magnifier. Or the ACOG with a high/rear set mount paired with an offset red dot. Each of these systems can come in for approximately $1,500.00. That sounds like a lot. But, when compared to the LVPO market that generally runs $1,000.00 to $3,000.00 then the cost begins to have some value. It also helps to realize that most of these sighting systems are being marketed and utilized on 5.56mm setups. This means a bullet that is designed arround an effective range of about 550 meters. In that context the 4x ACOG, the 5x Eotech, or the 6x Aimpoint begin to compete strongly. For the cost, weight, ease of use, ability to hand that weapon system off to a new user, etc. These systems can be far supperior. Just my 2 cents. Hope that helps.
For a general purpose rifle the 3x acogs are excellent
Lightweight, robust, and simple to use. No switches, knobs, or batteries...
Agreed. Recently picked up the new PA micro 3x, weighs basically nothing and has a very good view through it. Can't comment on durability. Also have a Vortex 5x micro prism but that's a bit too much magnification with an eyebox that's too tight for anything but precision. My experience with LVPO's is spend $2k+ or just don't bother. I feel like a 2.5-10x is a better option than most LVPO's tbh since the LVPO's just make too many compromises.
ACOG or ELCAN? which do you think is best for a gp rifle?
@@martino7263 the one that doesn't cost 2 grand...
@@kadan_gustafson6609 isn't the ACOG just a few hundred dollars less? Might actually need to check the prices.
@@martino7263 Well, on optics planet the 4x ACOG is a little over 1 grand. The Elcan Spectre is 2 grand on optics planet.
I’m happy with my 1-6x vcog on a quick detach AC12033(bobro mount) also enjoy practicing close in quick shots just using irons. Noticed in the video the Steiner 1-4x, that is a great value
new subscriber, I am glad i ran into your channel. This video, has a lot of great info, especially for me, retired USMC, and just wanting to build one of my own, you have easily answered a shit ton of my questions. I even watched it times today! I thank you, and looking fwd to more of your down to earth great videos! You earned my subscription gladly.
Recently I've slapped my Acog/ Holosun 507C combo on my 12.5 inch AR15. ON A KRAM mount, ive been able to mitigate the eye relief issue. Plus, beings in the PNW, visibility for an "Inda woods" engagement would be suitable for a 4x optic where im not too concerned for a 500+ shot (potential, yet not super common. Id probably switch up to a differnt caliber/ optic style if i was to prepare for 600 or 700+ engagements). Having a holosun on top would be decent for the closer engagements/ Urban environment where im less concerned about chin welds, and more focused on quick rounds in a tight squeeze environment.
Overall i enjoy this little set up, and look forward to putting your considerations in mind for the next time i go out with it! Thank you for this video! It was very informative! Keep up the content!
Personally in love with the primary arms 3x micro, easy all rounder with 1/4 moa adjustments for fine aiming but great eye relief
I second this the PA slx 3x is amazing! I own an eotech vudu, Vortex razor, eotech xps3-0 and 3 acogs for the money the clarity and that ACSS reticle it a slam dunk! Its like a modern day lighter acog at a quarter of the price
Do you own the pa 3x? I was super excited to get one and it has very short eye box. Looking to trade mine out, which is something I don't normally do.
@@christianknight2905 if you think the eye box is short might want to give an lpvo 1-6x a try but don't think it's that short at all for scopes in general' but if not happy with those try 1x power optics will be the only thing left' but won't try 4x acog, a 3x trijicon acog has one of the longest eyebox I've seen but reticle options and the trade off is less viewing at distance
IMO, after having countless acogs, elcans, and magnified red dots, I really really genuinely believe the TA33 is the best fighting rifle magnified optic. The PA3x gets a nod if you're on a budget as I feel it gets pretty close but lacks the eye relief and quickness of the TA33. (I actually use a PA3x because it gets me most the things I like with the TA33 but allows me to passively aim since I can adjust the brightness.)
If you want more magnification and more bias to distance, you really need a bipod and a good scope to make use of it. Magnification much over 3-4x really starts needing a parallax dial and a very stable shooting position to use.
TA33 or TA11 are cool but even with the RDS i think ''esp'' in a commie state that it would run poorly with nods simply because you cannot easily adjust the stock
interesting take. I'm inclined to lean towards this attitude. that being said, I run LPVOs because of the nice balance of performance, price, and magnification.
just used the sig 4x and the eye relief and eye box are trash but the glass clarity is fantastic and the reticle is good too. I still like it and can recognize it's utility as a fighting rifle optic. Would love to try a TA33
When you say primary arms 3x - are you talking about the new micro prism or you talking about the older prism scope
have had the Kahles 1-6, Aimpoint Micro, never liked the eotechs, ended up with the TA33, best compromise of em all
My training and experience is mainly with fixed-power prism optics and I find them to be my ideal set up for two reasons: Magnification is great for identification, and Nothing to mess with while shooting. I use a laser or flashlight for point shooting in close ranges(sub 100yds), so anything where I'm looking down the sights benefits from the magnification, especially the ability to identify my target. Not having anything to mess with while shooting ties into the point shooting method where I want to be able to load and go for my weapon. No dials to adjust, no magnifier to toggle, etc. BDC reticles mean I can just interact with what I see in the scope and my two hands are immediately on the controls while also handling the weapon. Pressure switches, safety, and trigger are the only manipulations I need and they are already there without needing to move my hands. I tried the Red dot and found it lacking in the reticle in terms of feedback and I found an LPVO takes my focus away from my surroundings and instead I was pulled inward to fooling with the dials or illumination so it makes the weapon less of an extension and more of a burden to Work Around rather than Working With.
So what do you use?
@@kill.z0n3 Primary Arms 5x for my .308 and iron sights for my 5.56 while I save for a good red dot, probably a mid tier aimpoint. Though I'm comfortable with Iron sights and should probably just spend that money on training ammo.
@@luckyomen I’ve been running the Leupold RDS. But I can’t shoot anything past 100 yards. Any suggestions for an optic?
I've check out a primary arms 3x for a decent starter optic for out to 300 yards with a AR15. Red dots are ok for 200 or less if you have a good zero. Otherwise I'd say start out on irons until you can hit a man sized target at 100. A red dot doesn't really give you a reference point if you're optic isn't zeroed and have nothing else to go off of.
@@luckyomen the 3x primary arms microprism is pretty sweet. I’ve shot mine to 515 yds or so relatively easily. And it’s pretty useful up close too. It’s hard to beat
Great video! I would like to see you do a video with the best of these options and run shooters through a unknown distances with target identification and engagement course of fire. 3 shooting distances of 75, 250 and 500 with 10 different targets, at the beep the shooter would be given 5 targets to find, ID and engage. Time with hits and misses along with wrong targets engaged to make a score, may the best optic win.
And while I'm here with video ideas and being very envious of your range and the topography. I would love to see a video on different camouflage patterns in the different vegetation that you have there.
Used to swear by the TA33 ACOG due to it’s quickness and great eye relief, but now the TR25 1-6x Accupoint w/Red Triangle Post reticle is my go-to. Like it’s ACOG sibling no batteries needed, and plenty of practical accuracy for general usage out to 350-400 yards.
How much did you pay?
I still swear by the TA33
The weight of the TR25 is double
@@TerminalM193 $800 total for my TR25 with a LaRue VFZ Mount.
@@commonsenseproductions5893 fair enough, but the weight doesn’t bother me a bit. 🍻
You can fix some of the eye relief problems of the ACOG with the Weapon Outiftters KRAM mounts. You might want to take a look at those.
I'm a fan of SFP LPVO scopes. After buying my first one I'd like to ditch the BDC reticle and just have MOA or mil holdovers. Also I now realize eye relief and eyebox forgiveness are paramount. Also, hot take, budget LPVOs suck a lot more than I thought they would
This was a Viper, or something cheaper?
@@armadilloeggs231 cheaper. I bought the sig tango with the included mount. The mount is great, the optic sucks. I know I got what I paid for but I wanted to see if I even like the idea of an LPVO. The jury is still out.
I prefer SFP LPVOs myself and I run a budget PA slx 1-6 and I quite like it. I would like some more clarity and will upgrade given the chance. But ill most likely stick with this style. I prefer more versatile setups and this makes me effective from 0-400m. Totally agree about the reticle choice. I still use a 36 yard zero with mine
@@CallofWar5 have you ran a fixed magnification with a canted or piggy back red dot? I want to try it out
@@CiviTac
I haven't ran a fixed with a piggyback optic but I'm not really interested. I just want a single optic for a more simple setup. I would like to try a fixed power, but I don't have any decent ones at the moment.
I went with the acog because of needing the magnification, but I like to orient everything over the idea of being able to pack it out, so durability and weight are my two biggest concerns
I have a TA-11 ACOG and a TA-24 Trijicon Accupoint 1x6. The ACOG is much easier to use and is amazingly clear. The FOV is great as well. I am considering another ACOG for the .308 that currently has the Accupoint. I may stick with it anyway, though. Life is full of these difficult decisions!
Just got the Trijicon VCOG has huge eye relief almost 3” 1-8 magnification
Primary arms fan boi here.
Griffin 1x8 is amazing
Great take on the optic dilemma. I am leaning more towards prisms & lpvos as my eyes get worse with age.
lots of great points to think about. Recently decided to upgrade from my first cheap rds to something more rugged (fell off the gun the first time I did anything beyond shooting from the bench, lol). Also, I like the Rimworld sound track!
Phenomenal video. Informative and without a 10 min flashy intro.
I found the 3x magnifier from Primary Arms with a quick release LaRue Tactical Mount to be an affordable option that works good. I carved the rubber coating off the magnifier and replaced it with grip tape and it's very nicely compact and lighter. Also, I have the Holosun RD with ACSS reticle great for CQB and which magnifies nicely.
Wow. Next level insight into these options. I’m confused but In a good way.
I’ve got a red dot, lpvo, and mpvo. Was considering ditching the lpvo for a second red dot. But after this video i think I’ll keep the lpvo. They all have a place.
“MPVO”?
Excellent video for newbies like me! I feel much more aware of what kind of optic I could use now.
Just wish a vortex would make a fixed power 6x scope with a venom mini red dot integrated onto the top where the elevation turret would normally be. Then just move the elevation turret to the opposite side of the windage turret. Saves on weight of variable zoom and extra mounting hardware.
Fellow lefty here: try switching your magnifiers so they flip over to the right. The portion of your peripheral vision they block is already mostly blocked by your support arm and they bump up against you and your gear instead of rocks and shit.
LPVO with a SFP reticle is way better than a FFP. Due to what you mentioned about it being so small at 1x on FFP. I’m not concerned at my holdover for 600yds unless I’m at full zoom anyways.
Seems like some got it right (ATACR 1-8) but I agree.
I agree but I actually kept my nx8 dmx over the atacr for weight n size….. atacr is better but to me not enough for weight…. My issue is nx8 and plxc…. Got both and I can’t get rid of either love them both
Thank you for using the rimworld soundtrack for this
This video is basically perfect. Very well done, thank you!
I dunno man, I only got about a 2 min intro - not a 10 min :/
I think inevitably most dudes are gonna have to just arrive though trial and error. I tried dots and magnifiers and I tried LPVOs, eventually elcan OS4X fixed 4x and dot is where I landed.
Solid video as always my guy 👍
Love the Rimworld music, knew I recognized it
This dude nailed the head on all of this. It's a tough choice! I own high end LPVO's, and acog, eotechs, and aimpoints. They're just all great its difficult to choose a single fav
Thank you, this video was hugely helpful.
I have a Leupold pig Plex 1.5 x 4 on one of my ARs sitting in an aero mount. 9 ounces plus 3 ounce mount for about 12 ounces for what ARs are capable of. It definitely fits MY bill.
Simple red dots are nice. Especially in the 150$ dollar range imo.
Fixed 3x mag optics or others simliar I'm getting used to, but don't love. Would be nice on some kind of patrol rifle or .308 battle rifle then an AR imo.
Overall a great commentary. I think that the LPVO is really only good for a DMR/SPR rig. Other than that the 4x32/3x30 ACOG is still absolutely the way to go. Smaller, lighter, simpler, tougher. Get to know your rifle and its caliber at different ranges and wind speeds and you'd be surprised at how 4x is totally sufficient. Don't go out on a limb looking for the great gadget that makes you a better shooter. Just learn how to freagg'n shoot. Any quality rifle is more accurate than the shooter anyway.
But the whole point with the magnifying red dot is to have good sight picture from 50 to 150 yards. If you're going past that range i would go with the lpvo. Most combat situations that a common person would encounter would be between 10 to maybe 100 yards. Just my 2 cents I guess
For people who worry about batteries running out on a red dot:
If we ever reach the point where as a society we become incapable of producing/obtaining batteries; and your red dot finally runs dry after 5+ years of constant on; and you have somehow survived for 5+ years in this scenario; congratulations.
You are probably one of the last men alive on whatever Earth this is.
Agreed at that point, you could easily find a solution like irons or a etched reticle. You had 5-10 years to solve that problem (batteries can last 10 years unused).
@@griffyrule6553 Batteries can last far longer than 10 years if stored properly, just that their capacity starts to nose dive after a decade. Still usable, but the life will not be great.
@@24YOA cool. I just Googled it real quick 👍
battery life on a usable setting is about a year bro.....
the 30,000 Plus hours the company's all claim is on a bullshit setting 7 LOL.
change batteries once a year, golden.
@@mrdark9916 Where I'm at setting 8/9 on an Aimpoint is plenty bright for daylight use.
I don't live in Arizona or somewhere super bright and reflective though. There's a lot of tree cover where I live, and the weather is pretty variable.
A new Brass Facts vid? Popcorn time.
Running a TR24 with a piggybacked 509T red dot has worked great for me as a nightvision user. Might upgrade the tr24 eventually, but I don't have very far sightlines where I live so it's not a big deal.
Really good informative content for people comparing their options!
I think you are dead on with LPVO’s. Despite how far the tech has come, they are mediocre to poor performance at 1x and their top end is decent, but the eyebox gets tight and they are easily out classed by light weight 2-10’s at distance.
Red dots are fine, point and shoot, most people don’t have a clue on how to zero a magnifier and I have seen newer shooters chasing a zero flipping back and forth between the magnifier.
I have found myself back at the ACOG + red dot setup as optimal for most everything. Your point about training is crucial. Obviously you should always train with your gear, but the ACOG specifically requires training in various scenarios to get it right. Once you “get it” with the ACOG, it is hard to go back.
Love these style videos man. Good shit!
Lpvos in general are considerably more “breakable” than an acog or t2. Worth considering when discussing a red dawn situation. If anything this highlights the importance of mission driven tools, in which packing out 1 of (at minimum) 2 rifles will be regular and the need for beefy gear will be evident, potentially painfully so when it’s too late to redo things.
Elcan seems nice; that being said, I really like the ACOG!
@@lost_achaean6771weight and durability killed the lpvo for me.
Man I have a full day on the tractor and this is clutch!
Best video I've seen so far on the differences in these systems. Thank you. Looking forward to more.
Really good analysis and I came to the same conclusion about the LPVO being the most general and overall the best for the average shooter, the Red Dot and ACOG as being more niche and specialized
Red dots are susceptible to two forms of aiming error: cheaply manufactured glass that distorts either the dot or the image of the target passing through the objective "lens" (it's not really doing any lensing, just reflecting of the emitter's red light) which is noticeable most commonly near the edges of the glass, and lateral displacement of the dot on the target when not centering the dot inside the optic window.
The second one is frequently attributed to "parallax", but actual parallax issues (like on iron sights or scopes) introduce an angular error-- like being off by 1MOA-- which makes you miss your shot by a greater distance the farther out you're shooting. Red dots, meanwhile, have their reticle dots projected at infinity and do not suffer from parallax. Instead, when shooting targets at ranges closer than infinity, they introduce a displacement error. The good news is that the amount of the error is bounded by the size of your window. On something like a Romeo5 which has a 20mm diameter window a properly zeroed optic will cause you to miss by at most 10mm even if you're squeezing off shots while looking at the target through the edge of the window.
The most important thing to do to minimize both sources of error is to ensure that the dot is in the centre of your optic but don't sweat it if it isn't-- you won't miss by much.
I just found your channel. I really like it. Your voice and details can keep my attention when i am interested. Yet i can also fall asleep watching when its bed time.
I like the Eotech Holo Sights with fixed iron sights riding at 1/3rd below.
My Coyote rifles have 2x7's, and my hunting rifles much better.
Thanks so much for making these videos.
I have a primary arms 5x prism optic coming in the mail today. Basically a poor mans acog except with a better reticle ( ACSS aurora M). I picked it in part from your videos based on the acog. It was also lighter and cheaper than an lpvo with a mount. Wish this video had dropped last week before I bought it lol. Love your videos. Keep up the good stuff
Build another upper, just cuz😬
Vortex has a six times prism scope I was tempted to look at it makes me a bit nervous that is that magnified but maybe with a red dot on top it'd be more viable
You live in a beautiful area what part of the country is that? No I'm not trying to dox you I'm in Canada.
@@top6ear you mean a 6x red dot magnifier. It’s not a scope.
I also have one, great and cheap. However, less than half the FOV. So, it's like a poormans acog with a toilet paper roll taped to the end. still, prism master race.
EOTech's are a holographic weapon sight with a 1MOA dot in the center. The reason it doesn't magnify is because it isn't a red dot. Holographic weapon sights remain 1MOA under magnification. Battery does suck on Holographic weapon sights but there are several other advantages to having a holo dot instead of a standard red dot.
@Florida Man HVACR that or use shake awake technology
That’s not true, the dot gets bigger
@burtrandolph1745 have one. If your dot get bigger, it's a fake.
@@taylorcompton7688 The dot stays the same size in relation to the target, but gets bigger as your eye perceives it. I have been using EOTech since the 553 and they all do this. They don’t use LEDs, but they aren’t magic either. The hologram is still subject to magnification.
28:42 foe the ones wondering what is the whole BDC thing mentioned means. It is Bullet Drop Compensation, as far as I understand feom having it looked up
Underrated channel.
Awesome job here. This definitely opened my understanding of the options I've been looking at.
Love the AGL handguard! Sad they discontinued them. Thanks for the video
What a great summary man. Thanks for sharing
Great video. A couple things regarding the acog setup. If you install the acog at the end of the pic rail the eye relief issue is drastically improved. I don’t run backup iron sights with my acog/red dot combo. It would take a near death experience to render the acog inoperable so having two extra forms of sighting is overkill in my opinion. If you really want to keep the irons you can install the rear iron sight forward of the acog. Having proper eye relief on my sight is way more important than the placement of a back up aiming system.
Second, give a red dot on a 45* offset mount a try. You can retain a cheek weld by simply canting the rifle over. Feels much more intuitive as opposed to lifting your head up off the gun.
I got to disagree when you 45 a rds your giving yourself a way to get hung up moving in the field. I like ACOG irons there far from the best irons but good enough to get the job done at close quarters but you do lose your cheek weld
@@Thatguywiththeface A 45’d RDS sticks out the same amount as a weapon mounted light does. Most of us aren’t going into “the field” and crawling through thick brush. Active duty military can’t run a 45* offset mount because their dictated by their SOP’s. Elite units can do what they want within reason. If you find yourself in a situation where the accessories sticking out 1.5” are getting hung up on bushes, vines etc. then sling the rifle behind your back, chances are your just a civilian and don’t need the rifle at the ready to engage Charlie in a danger close suicide mission.
@@knuckleduster69 I’m not your average civilian don’t like weapons lights either for the same reason. Skull dragging in a ghillie suit is a challenge alone. And before you make a remark about it I made it myself and with a marsoc marines guidance sir.. this country is starting to go under and I plan on evading as much as I can. Living in the mountains in Oregon I don’t need cqb as much as a guy in the city will my Glock 19x has night sights and a tlr 7 if I need close quarter. So now you know my terrain and plan still think I need a 45 rds or light on my rifle?
I have really been enjoying the 1x prism and a magnifier as of late. If someone made a good variable power magnifier then it would hands down be one of the best SHTF options. On the other hand FFP LPVOs are getting much better now that they have figured out how to make a reticle that is usable at 1x while it is super tiny because FFP lol. In my opinion a SFP LPVO is stupid because you then only have accurate BDC markings at one magnification setting, but i would also say that untill recently there weren't very many FFP options that worked well at 1x.
After trying all the options I’m finding the Eotech & magnifier combo works best for me. Specifically I have an EXPS3-0 & Holosun Titanium 3x magnifier.
Second choice is an lpvo, but man that eyebox at max magnification is rough.
I can’t find a magnifier that has a hood eye box, my lpvo’s have better eye boxes in my experience.
despite all the advancement, the acog with backup red dot is still the fastest and most efficient
@@civicsr2cool I have a bunch of eye issues (glasses, astigmatism, early signs of glaucoma) so what works for me will probably not work for very many other folks. The two setups are on guns with very different purposes so I guess I should’ve gone into more detail. For a shorter barreled gun used mainly for home defense & situations within 100-150 yards I prefer the Eotech/magnifier combo. On the longer barreled gun used for pest control & walking my property (25 acres) I prefer the lpvo. If it came down to it I could use either gun for either purpose, I just find myself being more comfortable with the Eotech setup.
@@civicsr2cool Optical performance is always going to be a drawback with magnifiers compared to LPVOs
@@cagneybillingsley2165 unless you run nightvision because for me acog with a backup red dot I can never get a good sight picture with my nods with it offset it doesn’t matter which degree it just doesn’t do it for me.
Optics choice depends on the environment you live in. I live in an area that is heavily wooded and there are very few instances that I would have to make a shot greater than 300 yds a 1-4 LPVO with a simple reticle works for me because it’s faster for CQB sight acquisition and I still have the ability to dial up magnification for longer shots and target ID. Someone living in an area with a lot of open land would be better served by something with more magnification and a more complex reticle with bdc
Same here.
I love my ACOG ta31 ecos! The rmr is nice as well and very accurate. I love the fact that it uses tritium and doesn’t need batteries (only for the rmr) . I usually have to put black electrical tape when outside over the fiber optic due to too much light in the crosshairs. I got mine due to the fact that it is battle tested and in a shtf scenario, you don’t need batteries for the scope plus I love the clarity of this scope. I was army infantry years ago (back in the 90’s) and we weren’t fortunate to have these back then. Only had open sights on our m16 a2’s (although I was a 60 gunner and rarely had the 16) . My ar’s are mainly safe queens now due to the fact that some assholes screwed it up for everyone at the outdoor range I used to shoot at and the owner shut it down. At least I figure I’m conserving ammo now to say the least.
Funny you made this video. This past week I've been researching this exact topic
Well as a poor boi who has been running fixed irons on my 16" 556 gun for about 2 years, you have successfully convinced me to focus on finding an acceptably durable and functional 1-6x LPVO for my optics set up....
Now to begin budgeting for that 😢
My favourite is something like a x1 to whatever with a top mounted red dot for passive aiming, faster aiming when at longer distance. Better for running and gunning with a red dot. Can get down in to the LPVO as needed
I'm a big fan of the red dot/magnifier combo, for all the reasons you mentioned. Unlimited eye relief/ no parallax can come in handy in awkward shoting positions, and it's basically a modular sighting system you can add to/subtract from/hand off to a buddy, as needed. It's less precise but with my GPR and local terrain I'm fine with it. On peace support missions we found being able to get magnification on something without pointing our rifles at it could avoid "misunderstandings" so it's nice to have one you can pull off your rifle without worrying about your zero.
Nutnfancy feature length video right here
Haha. I'll take that as a compliment. Even though I probably shouldn't.
I grew up watching Nutnfancy and he’s one of the things that originally got me into guns So yes it is a compliment lol
Holy shit, a gun youtuber that does research, instead of just show and tell.
Great video. Super informative and broke down some of the "common wisdom" crap for me.
On a seperate note: where was this filmed? Absolutely beautiful.
@ approx 30:16
This is very interesting to me. I own a Kel Tec RDB 20" and I "frankensteined" together (through great effort and much expense lmao) a mounting method for getting my flip up front sight out to the actual end of my rifle as opposed to up on top of the optics rail. While I Initially only did so for the increase in sight radius, it soon became apparent that the front sight when flipped up actually cowitnesses perfectly with my lpvo reticle in 1x as long as my head is in the "correct" position. It also helps to actually find and use the reticle unilluminated which is a much bigger plus then I would have ever thought. Didn't know this was something the military actually taught at any point. 😅
you need to post this thing because 1. i love RDBs, 2. i love my RDB20, and 3. that sounds baller
For me the most important thing is to understand your own priorities & limitations. My main limitation is budget/cost. My setup for a optic is set at less than 200 yards, low cost, light weight & small footprint. My compromise & choice: Fixed 3x Prism scope. It weighs 11 oz., is small, has a 5.5" eye relief, decent sized eye box, etched glass with optional illumination & is very robust. The cost is less than $150. It is not perfect or as flexible as a LVPO, but it is much cheaper, lighter, smaller, with greater eye relief & eye box & is a set & forget optic. A Red Dot is better in everyway for close ranges, but at distances great than 50', the 3x Prism shines. Since I have dedicated rifles for long distances, with real scopes, a 3x Prism is my choice for my main battle rifle, since I live in a urban area & I am not planning on the use of this rifle in the mountains of Afghanistan or deserts of Iraq. At this point, for the money, ACOG's should be much better, but for whatever reason they have not made many improvement since they were first adopted for military's use. I should add, at the low to mid-end price point 3x Magnifiers for Red Dots, are big, heavy, expensive, fragile & shrink the eye relief & eye box to much less than a LVPO or 3x Prism.
Great vid with a solid perspective. Terrain and environment are key factors in a lot of those decisions. The area I see y'all "playin" in is very different from my playground in the middle NC woodlands. Everything is some kindof compromise.. 🤠
The PA Aurora ACOG was so awesome.
Rest in piece
Yes it was helpful. Right at the end of the video the guy that was shooting braced on a grey SUV. "I hope that wasn't yours". Every spent round scratched the clear coat. I have most of what your talking about. I hate Eotechs, I've had them and hate the radical. I have red dots on most of my guns. My mid range AR has a Vortex red dot and Flip up magnifier. I have never had sighting issues with it. I hate ACOGS. I would never look through one after the first time I did. I wondered about the LPVO. I've seen them but didn't know anything about them. I'm happy with what I have until I have a problem. Thanks for the video.
LPVO is the second best option for everything you would want to do with 5.56.
Lpvo/offset red dot is the way to go 👍
Your background music reminds me of the ambient outdoor music in Red Dead Redemption 2 and I LOVE it!
Magnification is incredibly important. If I'm not gonna have it, I'll probably just run a carry handle tbh
Eotech and red dot gets you out to a minimum 200y , some practice and a little skill will get you to 300. The issue is target ID, that's where the magnification comes in.
If Eotech could up the battery life, which I understand is difficult, it would be my go to urban optic with a magnifier in my bag. It is just so easy for me to pick up the reticle quickly.
I do use all three tho.
Unity mounts are the way to go if you’re gonna run a rds/magnifier setup imo 😎
@@daytonsmith8910 might just have a pretty short neck. Unity riser with a T2 has been extremely comfortable for me
This is a big one. Looking forward to watching it
I have run an ACOG and RMR combo for a bit of time. I am a right haded shooter and when I need tk work closer in I kant the rifle until the RMR is in my left eye. Quick switch from one to the other and maintajn a good cheek weld
As someone new to rifle shooting it seems like RD/MAG is probably the best for newer shooters. Cheap, rugged, versatile and best option for night vision. LPVO is the best for non night vision shooting if you have the money, and ACOG/RD for someone who’s experienced and wants something niche and specific.
Just wanted to throw this out there having spent several hundred hours going down this rabbit hole
The best aiming solution I found for a SHTF gun was a ta31 red crosshair and Holosun 508t w the B5 enhanced Sopmod stock
The stock is key due to its shape it feels like you have a cheek weld when you pop your head up to the rds
Great video just my 2 cents
I don’t run night vision tho
LPVO and 45 degree red dot is the most useful all around option for me.
Dumb as bricks
I never really understood why someone worries about a 2 or 3 MOA dot being big at 300 yards.
99.9% of civilians will never have an issue with that, because we likely will not really be out there snooping and pooping engaging a target that far out. I think whatever system works for you to get on target at 50 yards or so, super fast, is all that matters.
If you find yourself in a situation where a target is further than that, you probably should be seeking cover, and wait for them to close on you, then handle your business.
I think it boils down to the persons eyesight. As we get older, that LPVO will be more handy, especially if you had to place more detailed shots, even at that 50 yard range. (Plus, as we get older, we are not going to be running and gunning....The hip and knee joints just don't hold up to it.)
It's wild the distances you have where you live. Reminds me of Iraq. I live in the hills so I just run red dots and 3x9 scopes (generally separately) . I've been wanting to branch out into prisms, if they're acceptable for a flat lander such as yourself I imagine they should be more than adequate for me.
So my setups as followed:
1 to 10 lpvo and top mounted rds for .30hate power and distance SPR setup
4x Acog and top mount rds for shtf piston ar15 summer/spring
1.5x acog for shtf winter/fall ak setup
1 to 8 lpvo w/ rds top mounted for GPR DI ar15
Rds w/ magnifier on night vision/ close range SBR .300bo supressed
Etched reticle 1x rds on PDW 300bo /9mm/ .45 .
The reason for a rds on my lvpo and acog is not just for if I want to use for night vision or close range but top mounted rds help with shooting at awkward and weird positions which would be common in modern day rifle fighting and also more strategic to fight in weird positions your adversaries probably wouldn't even expect to be shot at in. try to shoot under a car or sideways through a magnified optic alone and watch all your shots hit everyone and their dog behind the target. Rds top mounted are very useful for more than nv and close range.
You can get Holosun to warranty the loose mount for the magnifier. I love the glass on their magnifiers. The mount is a little better on their new 3x micro titanium.
The best optics setup is the one I use, everythign else sucks
Based
I'm at the point where I can't have a good time if I don't have a full power milliradian scope.
But i know its not a practical setup for many scenarios
But shooting out west in Utah its just better to have mills and higher magnification but mostly the long range style turrets are the most important thing to me. Being able to read wind with paralax adjustments but also being able to dial for elevation with a zero stop.
I actually emailed Trijicon telling them they need to make a fixed 6,8 and 10 power ACOG line with full feature turrets on them and a spot to mount a red dot on top
That would be my ideal scope, an ACOG with a milliradian christmas tree, locking dialable turrets with an elevation zero stop, 10 mills per rotation, trijicon level glass, and a paralax adjustment
Loving your vids man. Really knowledgeable and helpful. Keep it up.
Nice to hear the RIMWORLD track in the background
Check into a SWFA fixed 6x44 with a tube mounted RMR.
I'm running the 10x on my SPR, and it's been an amazing setup. The 6x is a bit more magnification than what you prefer, but having a mil reticle, durable package and at a much lower cost than the ACOG has been a real winner for me.
@@linkg99e3zR tbh it depends on your scope mounts. If your scope is low, it should be fine to clear the height. Otherwise, just cant your dot off your rail.
@@linkg99e3zR basically, if you can't keep your height above bore under 4.5" to 4.7" or so for a 12 o'clock mounted dot, run it at a 45° offset. I think mine, sitting on my top mount, is right at 4.6"
It's high, for sure. I'm having to do a chin weld to get sight picture through it, but running with a 75 yd zero on that gives me no more than a 5" point of aim to point of impact difference from 25 to 300 yds. I typically use the scope for around 150 to 200+ but it can be pretty awkward if your mount is too low.
Mount it at a 12 o'clock, and see if it's comfortable for you to aim through. It works pretty well for me, but I've got a big head so... lmao
It weighs 20oz alone though 🥴