As a combat veteran and Industrial Designer/SME who works in this industry, I think this was a VERY beneficial conversation for the AR shooting public, and even shooters of other platforms as well. Food for thought at its finest.
@@Nerd_In_Exile I'm prohibited by NDA/non-competes and general best practice to not divulge that sort of thing on the internet. Suffice to say that very little of it is groundbreaking, or even worth boasting about. I will say though, that the vast majority of gun related manufacturers in this country are started by machinists or engineers (sometimes they're both) who think they can do things better, smarter, cheaper than the other guy, and sometimes they firmly believe they've got a stupendous idea that they really must grace the gun community with. Of those, maybe one percent are right. And of those who are indeed right, maybe a quarter of them have enough business sense and luck that tons turn out well. And then those little guys turn into medium guys. Medium guys do well for themselves. Most little guys don't, and the nepotism and back-stabbing in this industry make it very difficult to defend, if not for the literal love of guns. I hope that helps.
I really appreciate that this show doesn't waste time on the politics and focuses strictly on legality, function and utility. As someone who's been shooting all my life but is brand new to the AR Space, wants to learn one platform functionally from another and hasn't made any purchases yet, it's been incredibly helpful to getting my hands dirty in a meaningful way. Thanks guys!
This episode is three years old, but I have to bring this up. For all practical applications if I had to choose, I would choose the jack of all trades master of none the LPVO. It doesn’t matter what price point you are coming in at, the utility of an LPVO is unmatched. The etched reticle and the diopter are the unsung heroes that make the LPVO the most utilitarian choice. Without a secondary aiming system the LPVO is equipped to handle all situations and has the highest probability of success in most if not all practical applications. I don’t know if anyone has ever brought this up in discussions before but should you loose or brake your prescription eye glasses in a fire fight, your diopter can compensate and correct your vision in at least one eye. In a SHTF situation, that quick transition could save your life especially if you are taking fire. This channel continues to put out excellent content and vortex continues to put out excellent optics keep up the good work.
These long sessions take a lot out of my day but the content is great. Good discussion. The bottom line is it really does depend on the user's purpose. Many pros and cons to each type. I tried the piggyback red dot on top of a holographic and didn't like it because I lost the check weld. I changed it over to a angled offset.
Most of my 16" guns and shorter have just a red dot and backup irons. I have a couple 16" guns with a 3x prism and a dot on an offset mount and all my 18" and up have either a lpvo or a 4-16×44mm so I can stretch them out a ways. That said I think the majority of people that ask what should I put on my AR15 would be perfectly suited with a red dot, maybe back up irons and a flashlight if it's for selfdefense. I've shot one if my 16" guns out to 600 yards just playing and was amazed at how easy it was to ring steel at that distance so much so I have a red dot on some of my hunting rifles now. Great podcast guys!!!!!
Many years back, I had a red dot on my AR15. After shooting some rounds I went down to the target at 100 yards. While there, I looked back at my rifle on the bench and saw what looked like an orange flashlight pointed at me downrange. When I returned home, I did some reading about "dot" sights for rifle and ordered aa EO Tech 552 that has no tint on the glass. Trying to see the glass from downrange was virtually impossible with the EOTech. Another reason for purchasing the EOTech 552 was the AA cells used. I call it mom-n-pop battery which can be obtained a lot easier that batteries used in other sights.
If Eotechs had even half the battery life of an aimpoint, they would be the ultimate sight. Until they figure it out though, I'll stick to my dot. I change my batteries once a year on my birthday so I don't forget.
“I do this for the people…” Excellent start for your rebuttal. One of my favorite rifles has a fixed 2.5x Scout scope on it. With practice, I can shoot it with both eyes open or really concentrate with just my left eye. My scope is very light weight - for a scope - but one of those 3x prism sights is both lighter weight and much smaller. I have a holographic sight with a 3x magnifier but haven’t used it enough to say that it’s better or worse than a fixed 3x prism. The prism is smaller. There’s less that can go wrong, including a dead battery. KISS. However, being able to quickly switch to 1x open sighting has a lot of appeal too. I have to add that my Dad’s Mauser 98 chambered in 270 wears a 2x Lyman Alaskan AllWeather scope. It worked for New England deer hunting.
@@noHandle1776 I tend to reverse that. Medium-range scope is offset, CQB stuff goes center and that's only on a couple builds. Most of my builds are pure CQB with no ability to competently go beyond 200m. Medium and long range doesn't need to be intuitive, but CQB does.
@@manictiger Lately I’ve been running a trijicon 3-9x40 with an offset rmr and it’s been my favorite setup of all time. Rmr handles 0-100y and the 3-9 (I leave it at 5x usually) handles everything else with the ability to push out to the maximum range of 5.56.
@@justin2956 I redid my "308 lmg build" with just a 6x micro magnifier. Scope's currently shelved. I tend to be CQB focused. All the resources tend to be in areas where engagements are around 0 - 50 meters, as is my likely starting location in "shtf", so I train for CQB a lot more than I train for DMR. So, I always want a good-sized RDS and I want it center-mount, not offset, not on top a scope. Offset scope was a weird idea I thought I'd try, but it was just too weird, lol.
I have a crossfire on a semi auto shotgun. Took the elevated mount off. The eye placement changes the dot . Astigmatism... looking through glasses change how fuzzy the dot appears. Looking directly into a ceiling light changes the fuzzy dot to a crisp little dot.
What would be cool is a new Huey 3 brother. I know this is an old video 3 years but the gen 2 came out 4 years ago! In 2020. “It’s time!” Bruce Buffer voice. Ya dig So make it! Send it! Also one “defective” needs to be recycled to me. GOD BLESS BROTHER!!!
I'm in this situation right now. I bought my first AR with an 18" barrel cause I just didn't know any better. Slapped a red dot on it and it's been great. But I can't help feeling like with an 18" barrel I should go to an lpvo because that's kinda what it's meant for. It's for home defense but also a sorta SHTF gun too. To make it even more complicated I have astigmatism and it affects any shots over 100 yards with the red dot. I can make it work but it doesn't feel great. The thing is I love not having an eye box and scope shadow to deal with. Would love to hear what others think. Oh, I've also looked at 1x prism scopes but I ruled them out when I realized they have scope shadow.
I’d look into an ACOG- your 18” barrel combined with 77gr open tip match ammo, is going to be able to reach out to ranges that shorter barrels may be able to poke holes at, but you’ll have considerably more lethality / kinetic energy at 600+yd with the right ammo. The TA31 ACOG, despite having “just” a 4x magnification, has a 32mm objective lens. This fairly large lens combines with extreme high quality glass which allows unrivaled clarity and light transmission, and most importantly? Field of view that has to be seen to believed. The BDC notches go to 800, and that’s not just for laughs. That superior glass and field of view allows so much information, so much visual data to pour into the scope, that it simply feels like so much more than a 4x prism. You can almost think of the effect that the glass, light transmission, and field of view have as being analogous to sitting very close to your HD television screen or HD computer Monitor; the image didn’t get any bigger in reality, but it sure feels like it, and you are seeing a whole lot of detail you wouldn’t see otherwise. The Elcan Specter D.R. is another phenomenal prism scope with glass quality on par with the ACOG. It is a bit more expensive, scope shadow is extremely minimal, and that’s relevant because it has quite the trick up its sleeve. In an incredibly rugged design, it has a switch that takes it from 1x to 4x and back - no in between. Shooting two eyes open in 1x is extremely fast, and it has a phenomenal etched reticle, with a daylight bright dot in the center should you wish to use it. For nighttime applications, the entire crosshairs and BDCs illuminate to a dim glow if you turn backwards past the lowest brightness setting and then the “off”‘position for the dot. It runs on small CR2032 Battery if I recall correctly, whereas the ACOG runs off any ambient light through its fiber optics and tritium, so no battery needed there. And finally, I know you said you considered it, but I would honestly give the primary arms ACSS CYCLOPS gen 2 micro prism 1x a try. It’s very fast shooting, but there’s also a little known fact about it - it’s one of the few prism optics that can itself be magnified by a magnifier, which is itself, of course, a prism optic with no reticle. Now, with the vortex micro 6x? It’s s blurry mess and unusable. With the vortex micro 3x on the other hand ? It’d absolutely gorgeous, and the 3x magnification is an INCREDIBLE synergy to have with the Cyclops 2’s ACSS reticle and ranging system. I can show you pix of what these optics look like, as good as a camera can, if you’re interested and get a hold of me. But these are 3 of my absolute favorite optics setups, and despite the wide range of Pricing between them, any the choices outlined would be perfect for your 18” setup. Personally, I find it difficult to choose a favorite. They truly all have their own brilliant flavor and use cases. Cheers !
What type of optic would you suggest for someone that wears glasses or contacts? Specifically someone that is nearsighted. (Needs the glasses to see clearly distant objects)
I got my whitetail buck this year with irons that are 101 years old, Winchester 94 in 30wcf. No idea how many 10s of thousands of rounds I’ve fired through irons but that’s what my childhood 22lr has and a brick was cheap back then lol
Can’t wait to check out the new 5x Spitfire. How does FOV and Eye Box compare to a Razor 1-6x set at 5x? Obviously everything is a trade off; size, cost, etc. What I’d really love to see is a Razor/ACOG quality (Japan/German) 6x in that Spitfire size and weight, specifically to run in conjunction with an offset 30/45 degree dot. Basically the replacement to a dot and magnifier. I shoot competitions and find I’m usually at 1x or 6x on my LPVO, almost never between. I’d use the offset dot as the primary and the fixed 6x secondary. It would be fantastic to keep weight under a pound for the combined Prism/Dot/Mount system and keep similar optical quality. The Gen III Razor reticles would be perfect in that.
I've been rocking an EXPS3-0* and a Vortex 3x magnifier (on a flip-to-side QD mount) and I love it. It gives me a proper '1x' with a massive FOV and the most forgiving eyebox an optic can have, but with the 3x when needed, and it's usually off the rifle on my kit so I don't have the extra weight on the rifle unless I think I'll need it. This is my 'carbine' though, on my future MK12 Mod H type build it's getting a proper medium power scope. I had a SPARC-AR, never gave me troubles, but now everything on my gun takes CR123 and I sold a rifle with the SPARC on it. I still have my Crossfire on my 10/22 though. *I recommend the -2 reticle after having the -0 for a while, the extra subtension for 'long range' is useful. The -2 was out of stock at the time, I should have waited for it.
Dot size makes a difference for me depending on wether I am bench shooting for a site check or load development, or am I 3 position shooting rapid fire on plates and paper at 25 to 100 yards.
If your glass breaks on a dot you can still use it, focus on the target with your none dominate eye and transpose the dot onto the target. Takes a bit of practice but it’s a very effective tool, put a bit of masking tape over your dot for practice. For proof of concept simply hold your hand out a bit from your dominant eye and look at something in the distance, you’ve been doing it since you were a kid so you already know it works :P
Some people build AR or use scopes like a lot of UA-camr’s but still don’t fully understand the setup or how to use that particular tool setup. Understand the job description then get the setup that fits it. End of the day not enough thought initially goes into choice of optic or scope. I would like to see more options illuminated in green though.
I loved my strikfire2, sold it to a buddy ' cause I got a vortex 4-16x 44 viper HS which I love also for my varmint hunting. But now I want smaller liter 1- 6 variable or another strikefire 2.
It’s funny he mentioned the prism with an offset. Inspired by the D EVO went a little different and put their new gen 2 3x on a 45 degree offset with the primary optic being a T2 on a 1.93... if I need magnification I just roll to the prism and it’s right there. Weighs less than my old G33 and doesn’t need to be manipulated. Fits my shooting lifestyle perfectly
thanks for all the info. i feel like ive been living under a rock with this tech, all of it! been hunting for 45 years... 3x9's, 4x12's, ect. now a 3x15 that im excited about. i think the only question i have at this point is whats the difference bw 3moa, 4moa, 5moa red dots? their accuracy at a given distance? how big the dot will appear over your target at a given distance? thanks
Have you touched on a LVPO for hunting? Any reason a 1-6 wouldn't be suitable for eastern woods white tails? Either on a MSR or bolt gun/lever gun? I think a 357mag with a 1-6 would be a sweet 150 yard and in deer gun.
They work great for hunting. I use a 1-6x for hunting hogs. Distances are typically 30 yards to 200 at night, and 30 to 400 if you see some at end of day/dusk.
2moa aimpoint, it seems it is really not a problem doing 1moa on target at 100m. If I stare into the dot I see an 8 dot cluster, but while focusing on target it is bit like comma type. Astigmatism seems to be very sensitive to dot intensity. Red dots are very good. Going to get an LPVO next, but they are pricey. I think an LPVO (up to 10 zoom for longer range, but needs a bright day) + angled red dot is the best combo. I prefer enclosed dots, for all weather conditions.
Food for thought: In a civilian environment (defensive, not matches), indiscriminate firing is not good for anyone involved. If your weapon is there to protect close ranges (like your house), a pistol caliber or shotgun with open sights or 1x glass (and a white light), is your ticket. If you are protecting larger areas (farm, ranch, rich-level long driveways), your glass should be capable of allowing you to positively identify possible threats across your coverage zone. Identifying targets in your specific zone / area of operations should directly guide your glass decision.
@@DinoNucci I am 10 steps ahead of you Einstein. You sound like a range ninja...whodafuk talks like that? "Possible threats across your coverage zone" - LOL. Also, shotguns and PCCs are for chumps.
I was going to get your 1x8 for a 6.5 grendel 18 inch barrel 1 in 8 twist most got it for home defence and some hunting in Northern California are what should you scope experts recommend. And also why don't you guys have a fiber optic scope oops sorry 2 questions hope I didn't go over my question limit
My argument for a red dot: i have a 30 round magazine. If I miss, I'll just send more until it stops moving. I carry mine between the driver seat and console of my ranch buggy. It serves a utilitarian, low maintenance purposes the rid the place of pigs and yotis, if I come across an opportunity beyond 200 yards, I'll rip the bolt rifle out the scabbard and take a precision shot... plus I've never noticed great accuracy out of my ar15s, 2moa @ 100 yards is typical
I feel like almost a third of people I encounter have some sort of notable astigmatism as relates to red dots. Maybe more. Me and my best friend both have some sort of astigmatism. And the realistic way I would explain to somebody how I see most red dots is that if they are appropriately bright that I observe a large obstructing starburst pattern effectively making the MOA of the. More like 12 to 36 MOA as opposed to one or two or six MOA. It makes it very hard to see what I'm looking at when looking through the red. Again lowering brightness levels I find really helps most people with this. It minimizes the flare. But sometimes I need to make the brightness so lo that it is almost invisible so that the dot is small enough that I can meaningfully aim with it.
Would like to hear your opinions on LPVO versus 2x 10 , 2 x 14 , 3 x 9 standard scopes. From the aspect of a scope usable for home defense and hunting out to 350 yards with a 308 caliber carbine.
Two things, first would be that a true 1x scope gives you the option to shoot without magnification and the issues that come with that. So you can run it like a red dot if you have to/need to…think home defense or red dawn or whatever. The plus side is you have the magnification for more precise shots or distance. The reticle on the LPVO might drive your decision here, more than anything. The second thing I wanted to mention is, you have to consider which LPVO to get if you do go that route…second focal plane or first? 1-4, 1-6, 1-8, 1-10? Also, as I already mentioned, reticle might be a big deciding factor. For instance I put a Strike Eagle 1-6 second focal plane on one of my AR’s because I wanted a rifle that I could use for home defense (because it’s 1x and the center of that reticle has a dot and is illuminated) but I can/do shoot it out to 600 yards on steel targets…it’s not my go-to home defense rifle but it’s there if I need it. I have another AR that I had a red dot on for a long time and it was my go-to home defense AR, but after shooting and enjoying the Strike Eagle I switched that AR to a 1-4 Crossfire scope (has kind of a duplex reticle with a decent sized center dot that’s illuminated). I really didn’t give up much from just the red dot but I gained in that I now have 4x magnification if/when I need it. I used to rarely shoot that rifle at the range because the red dot wasn’t really good for much other than close quarters stuff, I now shoot it more because it’s more satisfying on 25, 50 and 100 yard targets plus close quarters stuff too. Food for thought
At the 1x for LPVO, do y’all teach this or give this info to your supplier? The disconnect between the intention of the diopter isn’t discussed when purchasing an optic. You can look at it, hold it… yet the salesperson won’t know this information unless you as the supplier provides that info to them. As a consumer we use the internet, word of mouth, and whatever the salesperson may suggest at your loca sporting store. I enjoy my Lpvo, since I’ve been listening to this podcast I’ve learn new features of my scopes that I wish I knew before buying a firearm.
The problem with making some sort of a variable power optic like you're describing is that it would then require the use of a full erector assembly like a traditional riflescope instead of a fixed magnification prism design like the magnifiers we see now. Erectors assemblies with multiple lenses all spaced apart to get any sort of good optical quality are by nature quite long, so the optic would start to get too long to be of any good use.
Thanks for the reply@@VortexNation -good to know! Ha maybe we'll see a D-EVO style adjustable optic with overhang assembly on both sides to account for the multiple lenses you mentioned.
Retired Danish Military Combat Vet (Balkins ‘93-‘94 not that that adds anything other than an ego stroke) checking in. While this may be rather unconventional, I like using open reflex sights my civi owned SBRs. It’s probably not the most battle hardened or battle ready device but I like it on my home defense PDW. I have optic neuritis and the dot takes on a funny shape but I’m still on paper at 100m with an 8” barrel (300 Blk)
Vortex, please make a more affordable version of the Elcan SpecterDR 1-4. LPVO’s are too big and I never use any of the magnification settings in between my 1x or my max magnification setting. I’m either at 1 or max. So just get rid of all of the unnecessary in between settings and make a more compact LPVO with a great 1x setting for $1200.
Further point, Designated Marksmen with Bolt Action Rifles, must have the same 24 inch length barrels that are on the semi auto MBR, or the Designated Marksmen get easily located by the attacking Force
In the south, every soft drink is a coke. “ do you want a coke? Yeah. Ok what kind do you want?” Is how that plays out.. Red dots are all dots. How do like that red dot? But. But its green. Yeah we got gold red dots too 😂❤ bless our hearts..
Sounds a good Team to do a very Useful Project With. The 6.8 Western Case, necked up to 7mm, for a Rifle with a 24 inch Barrel, and a 1 in 9.5 rifling Twist, and compare it to a same spec 7mm-08 chambered Rifle ? Necking up will reduce the pressure and could get much smoother Recoil, 9.5 twist performance with Matchking heavy bullets should work fine, a 24" barrel ensures good powder burn, and then you can see if overspinning the lighter bullets gyroscopes them enough to badly affect trajectories at say 1,000 yds. Loaad development for 7mm Western could be a lot of fun. Next, see how we'll 7mm Western works in a 24" barreled updated FN FAL MBR type Rifle. Because Our Militaries need one. Sound like a plan? There may be no advantages over to 7mm-08, but We Really Need to Know What Chambering to go for with the MBR that's Desperately Needed to Replace 5.56 NATO - and it ain't. 30, .270, or 6.5mm, and 7mm is far superior to 7..62mm, as every Militsry Procurement Project has conceded. Right now, it's painfully obvious that that 5.56 "Trench Fighting - WW2 Eastern Front Combat" type rifles simply aren't cutting it, and imho, we only have 4 years max to come up with something suitable - in semi automatic form, with good accuracy to 1,000 yds but bullets staying transcontinental way beyond that, which can be exploited by Squad members Also having 24" barrels, but on Bolt Action precision rifles. Closer ranges can be handled by other Calibre platforms. I worked with people who fought in the Korean War, and there areb8mporant lessons that were hard won there, that have been forgotten, and we need to address those, with an answer this Project can help to provide. If not, perhaps we should all learn to speak Mandarin. An insight, we have to keep human wave attacks well clear of the Machine gun posts, mortar teams, and artillery. Bodies were piling up so high close to the machine guns, they couldn't traverse high enough to fire over them, so they got over run. So attacking forces Have to be engaged and slowed down at extended range, and those attacks shaped into controllable kill zones. The ability to have Volley Fire Needs to be restored, Because it is better to have it, and not need it, than to need it, but not have it. If bulletsvare still supersonic at 2,000+ yards range, they can even have a positive effect at range, out of a semi automatic Rifle. See what I'm getting at? 🤔
So.... I bought a Del-Ton sport light back in 2016. 1 in 9 twist, no deflector, no dust cover, simply mill spec....except for a CMC drop in, Strike Industries flat wire spring and replacing one of the steel weights with a tungsten weight ( the damn thing was way over gassed) ....having said all that, is the 3X prism the best choice?
@@trentonshot home defense now. I originally wanted to hunt with it and had it set up for that but I didn’t ever use it for hunting then I figured it was best for home defense.
@@melonrain6862 if its just going to stay in the house or maybe even a fun gun I would say just put a red dot on it or something with 1x magnification you could just as easily but a strike eagle 1-6x or 1-8x and be able to use it for both hunting and home defense
Simple solution to the battery problem: have backup irons and get co-witness with the optic or have a quick release lever so you can quickly remove the optic without tools if it fails and go to irons. I do this on all of my “business” guns. The zoom is nice though
Not really the best option for home defense to be honest. For that application, something with 1x or a simple red dot is arguably the best option to go with. Not going to say it couldn't be effective at all, but making fast movements in close quarters and looking down the tube of something that's magnifying everything it sees by 3x is weird to say the least.
BAC can be used, and used well; but it is not intuitive. If you don’t practice it, you can feel a little disoriented. It’s the same principle as the Armson OEG that nobody used any longer than it took for Aimpoint to come along. That being said the lower the mag the better.
I had a vortex strikefire 2 on my Colt le6920. It was fast. Stupid fast. Buttttt. At 100yds I was getting hits but not tight grouping like I want. Especially cuz hog hunting is a thing for me. So after much thought I got a vortex crossfire 2. Haven't sighted it in yet but so far I like the yebox and the view I have thru there. I feel like I'll get tight grouping at 100 like I want. We shall see
I think your information is of a very high level! But I'm looking for a new visor, and vortex seemed like a good brand in the 1000 Euro to 1500 Euro price range! But still I hear too many complaints about these scopes, Made in China and poor quality control lately! Maybe not in the higher price range but I doubt to give my money to that. the warranty may be lifelong, but what good is this if the visor is at the dealer longer than on my weapon?
Nice pod cast BUT I can’t agree with red dots taking a back seat to LPVOs and although you stated many times that they both have their place you also seemed to feel that LPVOs with 80% of the ability of a red dot was good enough. That is a disservice to your customers. It may be true in multi gun matches but not in defense of one’s life, for which 80% is failure in my opinion. I have a Viper PST 2 1-6x24, great LPVO, I took great care to set it up properly it’s mounted to my property defense/3-gun, gun, I live in the country with some space around me. That is not the same as my home defense gun which wears a Trijicon Reflex red dot sight and has for 20 years. In my home, speed, reliability, and accuracy are what matter most. Why limit yourself to 80% when a better solution is available. You mentioned that the LPVOs were beating the red dots at 3 gun but that also includes longer range shots. I’m hard pressed to find a straight shot over 10 yards in my home nor do I have to worry about the magnification being on the wrong setting. Nothing about a LPVO increases my chances for survival in my home. Sorry, I like your products and have many which were selected for their intended use. You really need to look at your product line from a home defense perspective as much as you did from a competition perspective. Keep in mind the recent rush to buy an AR was due to fear and a desire for self defense, i.e. close in, the red dots sweet spot.
Bluetooth wifi of optic eyepiece to bee seen on smart phone or projection glasses is needed for battlefield use, but nobody mentions it. I'm talking $20 wifi camera that goes over a super small optic. Watch any real world combat video and any army trained or not and you'll witness the arms up over the head shooting over a wall or berm and auto spray. Shouldering a weapon and sighting a target "without sticking your head up" would be beneficial.
Honestly to me the only reason I run an AR at all is modularity while predator hunting.... I can strap my high power 4 to 12 optic on in for the cross the corn field coyote but also have a red dot on a offset mount for those times a coyote sneaks in at 20 yards or less and u need a quick shot on him.... both things I can do with a bolt gun but the AR being an auto helps with multiple running coyotes
I own red dot and 2 LPVOs. I prefer LPVO. The red dot is light but limited. The LPVO can be used like red dot at 1x and for longer distances you just have to turn the magnification up. For sure adds weight. I also had red dot with magnifier but the eye box is not great and same weight like the LPVO.
Manual transmission would be totally relevant if the reason as to keep drivers focused on driving. Cause then they will be involved with the car moving
That 6" group at 100 yards with the red dot probably had a 6 MOA dot though. That means that brand new shooter who just bought their first rifle and optic shot moa right off the bat
$300 red dot + $300 dollar magnifier to get a 1-4x (or 5x) optic vs $1200 for a LPVO.....make the cost and size of LPVOs smaller and I’ll give up my “ancient” way of shooting. The best part of a magnifier is when it’s in my home, the magnifier comes off and I’m down to a lightweight and fast red dot. Seems to be a versatile setup to me.
I hear prism is best for astigmatism. ( which i have) What i do for my dots to make it look like a clean dot is flip up he rear sight. Looking through the rear sight makes the dot look like it does for the normies with good eyes without having to wear glasses.
I really like using iron sights. That said, there are some rules I try to follow. If I’m hunting for fun, I like to use a bow. If I’m hunting because I’m hungry, I want a gun. If I’m shooting for fun I’ll use irons. If I have to hit the target and get the desired result. I use a scope. I’ve not warmed up to red dots and haven’t even tried a prism scope.
Heck, the manual transmission analogy isn't that bad from a Swedish perspective. Here we still have lots of manual transmission cars, for some reason, and people will question and berate you for only taking a license on an automatic, or buying an automatic.
BEST talk on LPVO, Red Dots and Prisms on the net.
Answered the questions I had on prisms.
As a combat veteran and Industrial Designer/SME who works in this industry, I think this was a VERY beneficial conversation for the AR shooting public, and even shooters of other platforms as well. Food for thought at its finest.
@@Nerd_In_Exile I'm prohibited by NDA/non-competes and general best practice to not divulge that sort of thing on the internet. Suffice to say that very little of it is groundbreaking, or even worth boasting about.
I will say though, that the vast majority of gun related manufacturers in this country are started by machinists or engineers (sometimes they're both) who think they can do things better, smarter, cheaper than the other guy, and sometimes they firmly believe they've got a stupendous idea that they really must grace the gun community with. Of those, maybe one percent are right. And of those who are indeed right, maybe a quarter of them have enough business sense and luck that tons turn out well. And then those little guys turn into medium guys. Medium guys do well for themselves. Most little guys don't, and the nepotism and back-stabbing in this industry make it very difficult to defend, if not for the literal love of guns. I hope that helps.
I really appreciate that this show doesn't waste time on the politics and focuses strictly on legality, function and utility. As someone who's been shooting all my life but is brand new to the AR Space, wants to learn one platform functionally from another and hasn't made any purchases yet, it's been incredibly helpful to getting my hands dirty in a meaningful way. Thanks guys!
This episode is three years old, but I have to bring this up. For all practical applications if I had to choose, I would choose the jack of all trades master of none the LPVO. It doesn’t matter what price point you are coming in at, the utility of an LPVO is unmatched. The etched reticle and the diopter are the unsung heroes that make the LPVO the most utilitarian choice. Without a secondary aiming system the LPVO is equipped to handle all situations and has the highest probability of success in most if not all practical applications. I don’t know if anyone has ever brought this up in discussions before but should you loose or brake your prescription eye glasses in a fire fight, your diopter can compensate and correct your vision in at least one eye. In a SHTF situation, that quick transition could save your life especially if you are taking fire. This channel continues to put out excellent content and vortex continues to put out excellent optics keep up the good work.
The way Vortex got their 3x/5x that compact with a super clear quality is incredible
Waiting on my 3x now 😁
Same as primary arms on their new 3x. I love the idea of a small 5x with a cut for a venom
I had no idea you guys had a UA-cam channel or a podcast. I’ve really been enjoying this. Definitely subbing.
We sure do! :) Thanks for tuning in, Julian!
As someone who is new to the sport and who is looking for a first optics options to install on my AR15 I really found this completely helpful.
These long sessions take a lot out of my day but the content is great. Good discussion. The bottom line is it really does depend on the user's purpose. Many pros and cons to each type.
I tried the piggyback red dot on top of a holographic and didn't like it because I lost the check weld. I changed it over to a angled offset.
Most of my 16" guns and shorter have just a red dot and backup irons. I have a couple 16" guns with a 3x prism and a dot on an offset mount and all my 18" and up have either a lpvo or a 4-16×44mm so I can stretch them out a ways. That said I think the majority of people that ask what should I put on my AR15 would be perfectly suited with a red dot, maybe back up irons and a flashlight if it's for selfdefense. I've shot one if my 16" guns out to 600 yards just playing and was amazed at how easy it was to ring steel at that distance so much so I have a red dot on some of my hunting rifles now. Great podcast guys!!!!!
You're just showing off now
They are so crazy good and not mentioning any competition by name. Cracks me up. Very good info here btw
as someone who is getting into hunting ... and shooting on a regular basis ... love these podcasts.
Many years back, I had a red dot on my AR15. After shooting some rounds I went down to the target at 100 yards. While there, I looked back at my rifle on the bench and saw what looked like an orange flashlight pointed at me downrange. When I returned home, I did some reading about "dot" sights for rifle and ordered aa EO Tech 552 that has no tint on the glass. Trying to see the glass from downrange was virtually impossible with the EOTech. Another reason for purchasing the EOTech 552 was the AA cells used. I call it mom-n-pop battery which can be obtained a lot easier that batteries used in other sights.
If Eotechs had even half the battery life of an aimpoint, they would be the ultimate sight. Until they figure it out though, I'll stick to my dot. I change my batteries once a year on my birthday so I don't forget.
“I do this for the people…” Excellent start for your rebuttal. One of my favorite rifles has a fixed 2.5x Scout scope on it. With practice, I can shoot it with both eyes open or really concentrate with just my left eye. My scope is very light weight - for a scope - but one of those 3x prism sights is both lighter weight and much smaller.
I have a holographic sight with a 3x magnifier but haven’t used it enough to say that it’s better or worse than a fixed 3x prism. The prism is smaller. There’s less that can go wrong, including a dead battery. KISS. However, being able to quickly switch to 1x open sighting has a lot of appeal too.
I have to add that my Dad’s Mauser 98 chambered in 270 wears a 2x Lyman Alaskan AllWeather scope. It worked for New England deer hunting.
Need a 1-5 prism like the Elcan Specter dr
I think the offset red dot is quickly replacing optics like that entirely. I’ll take 1-10 and red dot please
@@noHandle1776
I tend to reverse that. Medium-range scope is offset, CQB stuff goes center and that's only on a couple builds. Most of my builds are pure CQB with no ability to competently go beyond 200m. Medium and long range doesn't need to be intuitive, but CQB does.
@@manictiger Lately I’ve been running a trijicon 3-9x40 with an offset rmr and it’s been my favorite setup of all time. Rmr handles 0-100y and the 3-9 (I leave it at 5x usually) handles everything else with the ability to push out to the maximum range of 5.56.
@@justin2956
I redid my "308 lmg build" with just a 6x micro magnifier. Scope's currently shelved. I tend to be CQB focused. All the resources tend to be in areas where engagements are around 0 - 50 meters, as is my likely starting location in "shtf", so I train for CQB a lot more than I train for DMR.
So, I always want a good-sized RDS and I want it center-mount, not offset, not on top a scope.
Offset scope was a weird idea I thought I'd try, but it was just too weird, lol.
@@justin2956 that sounds like a good setup ....I shoot with a 3x and guess 😂 it works out well for me tho
Vortex product placement is very important for these podcasts.
I have a crossfire on a semi auto shotgun. Took the elevated mount off. The eye placement changes the dot . Astigmatism... looking through glasses change how fuzzy the dot appears. Looking directly into a ceiling light changes the fuzzy dot to a crisp little dot.
Best 0-1000 optic for the SCAR17! Not the lol what ever junk with buffer tubes 😂
What would be cool is a new Huey 3 brother. I know this is an old video 3 years but the gen 2 came out 4 years ago! In 2020.
“It’s time!” Bruce Buffer voice.
Ya dig
So make it!
Send it!
Also one “defective” needs to be recycled to me.
GOD BLESS BROTHER!!!
Buncha young whippersnappers.
I remember shooting from the hip, out of a damascus double barrel, using home-made black powder and rock salt...
I'm in this situation right now. I bought my first AR with an 18" barrel cause I just didn't know any better. Slapped a red dot on it and it's been great. But I can't help feeling like with an 18" barrel I should go to an lpvo because that's kinda what it's meant for. It's for home defense but also a sorta SHTF gun too. To make it even more complicated I have astigmatism and it affects any shots over 100 yards with the red dot. I can make it work but it doesn't feel great. The thing is I love not having an eye box and scope shadow to deal with. Would love to hear what others think. Oh, I've also looked at 1x prism scopes but I ruled them out when I realized they have scope shadow.
I’d look into an ACOG- your 18” barrel combined with 77gr open tip match ammo, is going to be able to reach out to ranges that shorter barrels may be able to poke holes at, but you’ll have considerably more lethality / kinetic energy at 600+yd with the right ammo. The TA31 ACOG, despite having “just” a 4x magnification, has a 32mm objective lens. This fairly large lens combines with extreme high quality glass which allows unrivaled clarity and light transmission, and most importantly? Field of view that has to be seen to believed. The BDC notches go to 800, and that’s not just for laughs. That superior glass and field of view allows so much information, so much visual data to pour into the scope, that it simply feels like so much more than a 4x prism. You can almost think of the effect that the glass, light transmission, and field of view have as being analogous to sitting very close to your HD television screen or HD computer
Monitor; the image didn’t get any bigger in reality, but it sure feels like it, and you are seeing a whole lot of detail you wouldn’t see otherwise.
The Elcan Specter D.R. is another phenomenal prism scope with glass quality on par with the ACOG. It is a bit more expensive, scope shadow is extremely minimal, and that’s relevant because it has quite the trick up its sleeve. In an incredibly rugged design, it has a switch that takes it from 1x to 4x and back - no in between. Shooting two eyes open in 1x is extremely fast, and it has a phenomenal etched reticle, with a daylight bright dot in the center should you wish to use it. For nighttime applications, the entire crosshairs and BDCs illuminate to a dim glow if you turn backwards past the lowest brightness setting and then the “off”‘position for the dot. It runs on small CR2032 Battery if I recall correctly, whereas the ACOG runs off any ambient light through its fiber optics and tritium, so no battery needed there.
And finally, I know you said you considered it, but I would honestly give the primary arms ACSS CYCLOPS gen 2 micro prism 1x a try. It’s very fast shooting, but there’s also a little known fact about it - it’s one of the few prism optics that can itself be magnified by a magnifier, which is itself, of course, a prism optic with no reticle. Now, with the vortex micro 6x? It’s s blurry mess and unusable. With the vortex micro 3x on the other hand ? It’d absolutely gorgeous, and the 3x magnification is an INCREDIBLE
synergy to have with the Cyclops 2’s ACSS reticle and ranging system. I can show you pix of what these optics look like, as good as a camera can, if you’re interested and get a hold of me.
But these are 3 of my absolute favorite optics setups, and despite the wide range of
Pricing between them, any the choices outlined would be perfect for your 18” setup. Personally, I find it difficult to choose a favorite. They truly all have their own brilliant flavor and use cases. Cheers !
We do need more scout options
I love my 5x spitfire. Have it on a 22mag, great for hunting varmints and heavily wooded areas.
Lol best of both worlds lpvo + 45degree off set dot= love mine for three gun and honestly it’s my go too.
What type of optic would you suggest for someone that wears glasses or contacts? Specifically someone that is nearsighted. (Needs the glasses to see clearly distant objects)
I got my whitetail buck this year with irons that are 101 years old, Winchester 94 in 30wcf. No idea how many 10s of thousands of rounds I’ve fired through irons but that’s what my childhood 22lr has and a brick was cheap back then lol
Can’t wait to check out the new 5x Spitfire. How does FOV and Eye Box compare to a Razor 1-6x set at 5x? Obviously everything is a trade off; size, cost, etc. What I’d really love to see is a Razor/ACOG quality (Japan/German) 6x in that Spitfire size and weight, specifically to run in conjunction with an offset 30/45 degree dot. Basically the replacement to a dot and magnifier. I shoot competitions and find I’m usually at 1x or 6x on my LPVO, almost never between. I’d use the offset dot as the primary and the fixed 6x secondary. It would be fantastic to keep weight under a pound for the combined Prism/Dot/Mount system and keep similar optical quality. The Gen III Razor reticles would be perfect in that.
I've been rocking an EXPS3-0* and a Vortex 3x magnifier (on a flip-to-side QD mount) and I love it. It gives me a proper '1x' with a massive FOV and the most forgiving eyebox an optic can have, but with the 3x when needed, and it's usually off the rifle on my kit so I don't have the extra weight on the rifle unless I think I'll need it. This is my 'carbine' though, on my future MK12 Mod H type build it's getting a proper medium power scope. I had a SPARC-AR, never gave me troubles, but now everything on my gun takes CR123 and I sold a rifle with the SPARC on it. I still have my Crossfire on my 10/22 though.
*I recommend the -2 reticle after having the -0 for a while, the extra subtension for 'long range' is useful. The -2 was out of stock at the time, I should have waited for it.
Just got my Spitfire HD GEN 2, 3x Prisim Scope. It’s just what I was looking for! Going out to try it now.
What’s the battery life?
Have one coming, do you like it?
I've got 1x6 strike eagle lpvo and a base model reddot hope made right choice going with vortex so far so good
Aimpoint Comp M2 is a bright, pinpoint dot, best I’ve seen even though it’s old.
Dot size makes a difference for me depending on wether I am bench shooting for a site check or load development, or am I 3 position shooting rapid fire on plates and paper at 25 to 100 yards.
If your glass breaks on a dot you can still use it, focus on the target with your none dominate eye and transpose the dot onto the target. Takes a bit of practice but it’s a very effective tool, put a bit of masking tape over your dot for practice. For proof of concept simply hold your hand out a bit from your dominant eye and look at something in the distance, you’ve been doing it since you were a kid so you already know it works :P
Some people build AR or use scopes like a lot of UA-camr’s but still don’t fully understand the setup or how to use that particular tool setup. Understand the job description then get the setup that fits it. End of the day not enough thought initially goes into choice of optic or scope. I would like to see more options illuminated in green though.
I loved my strikfire2, sold it to a buddy ' cause I got a vortex 4-16x 44 viper HS which I love also for my varmint hunting.
But now I want smaller liter
1- 6 variable or another strikefire 2.
It’s funny he mentioned the prism with an offset. Inspired by the D EVO went a little different and put their new gen 2 3x on a 45 degree offset with the primary optic being a T2 on a 1.93... if I need magnification I just roll to the prism and it’s right there. Weighs less than my old G33 and doesn’t need to be manipulated.
Fits my shooting lifestyle perfectly
Prism w/piggy back red dot
3x prism for me with an angled red dot on a 16". 18-20" rock an LPVO especially if its a .308
What would be best for astigmatisms. I need to be able to use with or without my glasses.
Wish I had seen this before I got my red dot. So now going LPVO with 45 off set for my red dot. Yes or No?
Just ad chevron to red dots and I'm all set.. Like the way it presents .. Shot precisely with point or use the whole thing for faster shooting ..
A jack of all trades is a master of none...but oftentimes better than a master of one....people leave second part out...Great ...informatve video
I've never seen so many Vortex logos in my life, let alone in one video. Nice vid though!
6 MOA dot fixes astigmatism
BTW i like you'r pod thanks
thanks for all the info. i feel like ive been living under a rock with this tech, all of it! been hunting for 45 years... 3x9's, 4x12's, ect. now a 3x15 that im excited about. i think the only question i have at this point is whats the difference bw 3moa, 4moa, 5moa red dots? their accuracy at a given distance? how big the dot will appear over your target at a given distance? thanks
3 Moa covers 3 inches of a target at 100 yards, 4moa = 4 inches, etc… so smaller the moa the more precise you can be
Have you touched on a LVPO for hunting? Any reason a 1-6 wouldn't be suitable for eastern woods white tails? Either on a MSR or bolt gun/lever gun? I think a 357mag with a 1-6 would be a sweet 150 yard and in deer gun.
They work great for hunting. I use a 1-6x for hunting hogs. Distances are typically 30 yards to 200 at night, and 30 to 400 if you see some at end of day/dusk.
Perfect for a 357 44 mag 30 30 levergun etc.
You arent going passed 150 2000 yds anyway
2moa aimpoint, it seems it is really not a problem doing 1moa on target at 100m. If I stare into the dot I see an 8 dot cluster, but while focusing on target it is bit like comma type. Astigmatism seems to be very sensitive to dot intensity.
Red dots are very good. Going to get an LPVO next, but they are pricey.
I think an LPVO (up to 10 zoom for longer range, but needs a bright day) + angled red dot is the best combo. I prefer enclosed dots, for all weather conditions.
The thing about a magnifier is you can take it off/on easily and carry with you if needed.
Please make a mid or high end scout scope.
Food for thought: In a civilian environment (defensive, not matches), indiscriminate firing is not good for anyone involved.
If your weapon is there to protect close ranges (like your house), a pistol caliber or shotgun with open sights or 1x glass (and a white light), is your ticket.
If you are protecting larger areas (farm, ranch, rich-level long driveways), your glass should be capable of allowing you to positively identify possible threats across your coverage zone.
Identifying targets in your specific zone / area of operations should directly guide your glass decision.
That's a lot of words with no value added. Watch the video again
@@jeffd5310 you slow bruh?
@@DinoNucci I am 10 steps ahead of you Einstein. You sound like a range ninja...whodafuk talks like that? "Possible threats across your coverage zone" - LOL. Also, shotguns and PCCs are for chumps.
@@jeffd5310 you can't even spell. Go away.
I was going to get your 1x8 for a 6.5 grendel 18 inch barrel 1 in 8 twist most got it for home defence and some hunting in Northern California are what should you scope experts recommend. And also why don't you guys have a fiber optic scope oops sorry 2 questions hope I didn't go over my question limit
My argument for a red dot: i have a 30 round magazine. If I miss, I'll just send more until it stops moving. I carry mine between the driver seat and console of my ranch buggy. It serves a utilitarian, low maintenance purposes the rid the place of pigs and yotis, if I come across an opportunity beyond 200 yards, I'll rip the bolt rifle out the scabbard and take a precision shot... plus I've never noticed great accuracy out of my ar15s, 2moa @ 100 yards is typical
1 year old video now, but what is the Vortex entry level LPVO?
I feel like almost a third of people I encounter have some sort of notable astigmatism as relates to red dots. Maybe more. Me and my best friend both have some sort of astigmatism. And the realistic way I would explain to somebody how I see most red dots is that if they are appropriately bright that I observe a large obstructing starburst pattern effectively making the MOA of the. More like 12 to 36 MOA as opposed to one or two or six MOA. It makes it very hard to see what I'm looking at when looking through the red.
Again lowering brightness levels I find really helps most people with this. It minimizes the flare. But sometimes I need to make the brightness so lo that it is almost invisible so that the dot is small enough that I can meaningfully aim with it.
Would like to hear your opinions on LPVO versus 2x 10 , 2 x 14 , 3 x 9 standard scopes. From the aspect of a scope usable for home defense and hunting out to 350 yards with a 308 caliber carbine.
Two things, first would be that a true 1x scope gives you the option to shoot without magnification and the issues that come with that. So you can run it like a red dot if you have to/need to…think home defense or red dawn or whatever. The plus side is you have the magnification for more precise shots or distance. The reticle on the LPVO might drive your decision here, more than anything.
The second thing I wanted to mention is, you have to consider which LPVO to get if you do go that route…second focal plane or first? 1-4, 1-6, 1-8, 1-10? Also, as I already mentioned, reticle might be a big deciding factor.
For instance I put a Strike Eagle 1-6 second focal plane on one of my AR’s because I wanted a rifle that I could use for home defense (because it’s 1x and the center of that reticle has a dot and is illuminated) but I can/do shoot it out to 600 yards on steel targets…it’s not my go-to home defense rifle but it’s there if I need it.
I have another AR that I had a red dot on for a long time and it was my go-to home defense AR, but after shooting and enjoying the Strike Eagle I switched that AR to a 1-4 Crossfire scope (has kind of a duplex reticle with a decent sized center dot that’s illuminated). I really didn’t give up much from just the red dot but I gained in that I now have 4x magnification if/when I need it. I used to rarely shoot that rifle at the range because the red dot wasn’t really good for much other than close quarters stuff, I now shoot it more because it’s more satisfying on 25, 50 and 100 yard targets plus close quarters stuff too.
Food for thought
At the 1x for LPVO, do y’all teach this or give this info to your supplier?
The disconnect between the intention of the diopter isn’t discussed when purchasing an optic. You can look at it, hold it… yet the salesperson won’t know this information unless you as the supplier provides that info to them.
As a consumer we use the internet, word of mouth, and whatever the salesperson may suggest at your loca sporting store.
I enjoy my Lpvo, since I’ve been listening to this podcast I’ve learn new features of my scopes that I wish I knew before buying a firearm.
I have a LPVO with a holographic mounted on top but ordered a 45degree offset mount for it because I changed my mind about where to mount
Works a lot better in a 45 for me. You can almost keep the same cheek weld.
What vortex lineup would you guys recommend for the .300 BLK? Want to do some hunting with it, no long range shooting.
Check out the Viper HS lineup!
If you're looking for an LPVO, check out the Strike Eagle 1-6x24
When might we see a quality-made variable magnifier (2-4x) to accompany holographic sights?
The problem with making some sort of a variable power optic like you're describing is that it would then require the use of a full erector assembly like a traditional riflescope instead of a fixed magnification prism design like the magnifiers we see now. Erectors assemblies with multiple lenses all spaced apart to get any sort of good optical quality are by nature quite long, so the optic would start to get too long to be of any good use.
Thanks for the reply@@VortexNation -good to know!
Ha maybe we'll see a D-EVO style adjustable optic with overhang assembly on both sides to account for the multiple lenses you mentioned.
Retired Danish Military Combat Vet (Balkins ‘93-‘94 not that that adds anything other than an ego stroke) checking in. While this may be rather unconventional, I like using open reflex sights my civi owned SBRs. It’s probably not the most battle hardened or battle ready device but I like it on my home defense PDW. I have optic neuritis and the dot takes on a funny shape but I’m still on paper at 100m with an 8” barrel (300 Blk)
I’ve got a 4-14x50 scope on mine!
mine is 6-24*50AOE
I bet these guy's heads would EXPLODE when asked what setup to use when shooting pigs from a chopper at 50-60, 80 mph
Vortex, please make a more affordable version of the Elcan SpecterDR 1-4. LPVO’s are too big and I never use any of the magnification settings in between my 1x or my max magnification setting. I’m either at 1 or max. So just get rid of all of the unnecessary in between settings and make a more compact LPVO with a great 1x setting for $1200.
Further point, Designated Marksmen with Bolt Action Rifles, must have the same 24 inch length barrels that are on the semi auto MBR, or the Designated Marksmen get easily located by the attacking Force
Please check my comment. Rn I only have sights on it. I had a shit optic on it for 3 years and now I’m not sure what to do with it.
Use and budget matters most. I'd like to build 3 ARs for every range and use but don't have the cash
In the south, every soft drink is a coke.
“ do you want a coke? Yeah. Ok what kind do you want?” Is how that plays out..
Red dots are all dots.
How do like that red dot?
But. But its green.
Yeah we got gold red dots too
😂❤ bless our hearts..
Sounds a good Team to do a very Useful Project With. The 6.8 Western Case, necked up to 7mm, for a Rifle with a 24 inch Barrel, and a 1 in 9.5 rifling Twist, and compare it to a same spec 7mm-08 chambered Rifle ? Necking up will reduce the pressure and could get much smoother Recoil, 9.5 twist performance with Matchking heavy bullets should work fine, a 24" barrel ensures good powder burn, and then you can see if overspinning the lighter bullets gyroscopes them enough to badly affect trajectories at say 1,000 yds. Loaad development for 7mm Western could be a lot of fun. Next, see how we'll 7mm Western works in a 24" barreled updated FN FAL MBR type Rifle. Because Our Militaries need one. Sound like a plan? There may be no advantages over to 7mm-08, but We Really Need to Know What Chambering to go for with the MBR that's Desperately Needed to Replace 5.56 NATO - and it ain't. 30, .270, or 6.5mm, and 7mm is far superior to 7..62mm, as every Militsry Procurement Project has conceded. Right now, it's painfully obvious that that 5.56 "Trench Fighting - WW2 Eastern Front Combat" type rifles simply aren't cutting it, and imho, we only have 4 years max to come up with something suitable - in semi automatic form, with good accuracy to 1,000 yds but bullets staying transcontinental way beyond that, which can be exploited by Squad members Also having 24" barrels, but on Bolt Action precision rifles. Closer ranges can be handled by other Calibre platforms. I worked with people who fought in the Korean War, and there areb8mporant lessons that were hard won there, that have been forgotten, and we need to address those, with an answer this Project can help to provide. If not, perhaps we should all learn to speak Mandarin.
An insight, we have to keep human wave attacks well clear of the Machine gun posts, mortar teams, and artillery. Bodies were piling up so high close to the machine guns, they couldn't traverse high enough to fire over them, so they got over run. So attacking forces Have to be engaged and slowed down at extended range, and those attacks shaped into controllable kill zones. The ability to have Volley Fire Needs to be restored, Because it is better to have it, and not need it, than to need it, but not have it. If bulletsvare still supersonic at 2,000+ yards range, they can even have a positive effect at range, out of a semi automatic Rifle. See what I'm getting at? 🤔
Adam, what was the niche variant of 3-gun you shooting that compelled you to put a lpvo on a sbr? It sounds fun to me. 👍
Is vortex coming out with a 1x version of the updated Spitfire HD Gen II with changeable height platforms?
I second this motion.
My goal is to have all of em 🤣 thanks good show!
So.... I bought a Del-Ton sport light back in 2016. 1 in 9 twist, no deflector, no dust cover, simply mill spec....except for a CMC drop in, Strike Industries flat wire spring and replacing one of the steel weights with a tungsten weight ( the damn thing was way over gassed) ....having said all that, is the 3X prism the best choice?
Well like they said what are you using it for
@@trentonshot home defense now. I originally wanted to hunt with it and had it set up for that but I didn’t ever use it for hunting then I figured it was best for home defense.
@@melonrain6862 if its just going to stay in the house or maybe even a fun gun I would say just put a red dot on it or something with 1x magnification you could just as easily but a strike eagle 1-6x or 1-8x and be able to use it for both hunting and home defense
@@trentonshot 👍, thanks for the input.
Personally I like the LPVO because I don't trust batteries to work when I need them and as I get older I like the zoom.
Simple solution to the battery problem: have backup irons and get co-witness with the optic or have a quick release lever so you can quickly remove the optic without tools if it fails and go to irons. I do this on all of my “business” guns. The zoom is nice though
Ar-15 16” Red dot 36yd zero set it and forget good out to 300 maybe not precise but, you have mass body hits.
Is the 3x prism a viable home defense option? Or would the Bindon Aiming Concept best be utilized in a close quarters scenario?
Not really the best option for home defense to be honest. For that application, something with 1x or a simple red dot is arguably the best option to go with. Not going to say it couldn't be effective at all, but making fast movements in close quarters and looking down the tube of something that's magnifying everything it sees by 3x is weird to say the least.
BAC can be used, and used well; but it is not intuitive. If you don’t practice it, you can feel a little disoriented. It’s the same principle as the Armson OEG that nobody used any longer than it took for Aimpoint to come along. That being said the lower the mag the better.
The BAC is viable and those that say it’s not, likely never used one in CQB. Not as ready as a simple red dot, but with practice BDC can do it all.
I had a vortex strikefire 2 on my Colt le6920. It was fast. Stupid fast. Buttttt. At 100yds I was getting hits but not tight grouping like I want. Especially cuz hog hunting is a thing for me. So after much thought I got a vortex crossfire 2. Haven't sighted it in yet but so far I like the yebox and the view I have thru there. I feel like I'll get tight grouping at 100 like I want. We shall see
What’s the battery life on the 3x gen 2?
I think your information is of a very high level!
But I'm looking for a new visor, and vortex seemed like a good brand in the 1000 Euro to 1500 Euro price range!
But still I hear too many complaints about these scopes, Made in China and poor quality control lately!
Maybe not in the higher price range but I doubt to give my money to that.
the warranty may be lifelong, but what good is this if the visor is at the dealer longer than on my weapon?
Nice pod cast BUT I can’t agree with red dots taking a back seat to LPVOs and although you stated many times that they both have their place you also seemed to feel that LPVOs with 80% of the ability of a red dot was good enough. That is a disservice to your customers. It may be true in multi gun matches but not in defense of one’s life, for which 80% is failure in my opinion. I have a Viper PST 2 1-6x24, great LPVO, I took great care to set it up properly it’s mounted to my property defense/3-gun, gun, I live in the country with some space around me. That is not the same as my home defense gun which wears a Trijicon Reflex red dot sight and has for 20 years. In my home, speed, reliability, and accuracy are what matter most. Why limit yourself to 80% when a better solution is available. You mentioned that the LPVOs were beating the red dots at 3 gun but that also includes longer range shots. I’m hard pressed to find a straight shot over 10 yards in my home nor do I have to worry about the magnification being on the wrong setting. Nothing about a LPVO increases my chances for survival in my home. Sorry, I like your products and have many which were selected for their intended use. You really need to look at your product line from a home defense perspective as much as you did from a competition perspective. Keep in mind the recent rush to buy an AR was due to fear and a desire for self defense, i.e. close in, the red dots sweet spot.
Appreciate the information
Can you do .17hmr?
I'm here looking into prism optics because I have a red dot that looks like a spider web for me. Drives me crazy.
We NEED A RAZOR with ACSS in 3-15x42 or 40 no big bells 🔔 with a built in aim point acro footprint! And a AA battery!!!
I have vz58, that 5x Spitfire compact size look perfect for it (longer optics bother breech), just sad its for 5,56 ARs
What about Acogs?
Bluetooth wifi of optic eyepiece to bee seen on smart phone or projection glasses is needed for battlefield use, but nobody mentions it. I'm talking $20 wifi camera that goes over a super small optic. Watch any real world combat video and any army trained or not and you'll witness the arms up over the head shooting over a wall or berm and auto spray. Shouldering a weapon and sighting a target "without sticking your head up" would be beneficial.
Honestly to me the only reason I run an AR at all is modularity while predator hunting.... I can strap my high power 4 to 12 optic on in for the cross the corn field coyote but also have a red dot on a offset mount for those times a coyote sneaks in at 20 yards or less and u need a quick shot on him.... both things I can do with a bolt gun but the AR being an auto helps with multiple running coyotes
The only preliminary information you get from a customer saying "I bought an AR what optic do I get" is, OK so we're mounting to Picatinny....
yeah I hear ya there I think were I made a mistake is taking the opinion of a couple of friends
Lol that's about right!
I'm thinking I may have made a mistake in buying the Sig Sauer MSR Red Dot.?? I'm trying to decide if I should return it for a LPVO
I own red dot and 2 LPVOs. I prefer LPVO. The red dot is light but limited. The LPVO can be used like red dot at 1x and for longer distances you just have to turn the magnification up. For sure adds weight. I also had red dot with magnifier but the eye box is not great and same weight like the LPVO.
@@kriszml Thanks for some insight
I've been watching these guys. Great way to fall asleep..... no offense
Manual transmission would be totally relevant if the reason as to keep drivers focused on driving. Cause then they will be involved with the car moving
I do think the “industry” is trying to sell the hell out of lpvo’s.
There's definitely a case for them!
That 6" group at 100 yards with the red dot probably had a 6 MOA dot though. That means that brand new shooter who just bought their first rifle and optic shot moa right off the bat
$300 red dot + $300 dollar magnifier to get a 1-4x (or 5x) optic vs $1200 for a LPVO.....make the cost and size of LPVOs smaller and I’ll give up my “ancient” way of shooting. The best part of a magnifier is when it’s in my home, the magnifier comes off and I’m down to a lightweight and fast red dot. Seems to be a versatile setup to me.
Most people just buy whatever looks cool period.
I hear prism is best for astigmatism. ( which i have) What i do for my dots to make it look like a clean dot is flip up he rear sight. Looking through the rear sight makes the dot look like it does for the normies with good eyes without having to wear glasses.
I really like using iron sights. That said, there are some rules I try to follow. If I’m hunting for fun, I like to use a bow. If I’m hunting because I’m hungry, I want a gun. If I’m shooting for fun I’ll use irons. If I have to hit the target and get the desired result. I use a scope. I’ve not warmed up to red dots and haven’t even tried a prism scope.
Anyone who has appreciated the standard 3-9x 2nd FP hunting scopes will probably like these newer illuminated prisms.
It’s 2022 try something
Iron sights are the manual transmission of firearms
Heck, the manual transmission analogy isn't that bad from a Swedish perspective. Here we still have lots of manual transmission cars, for some reason, and people will question and berate you for only taking a license on an automatic, or buying an automatic.
Cabela's has 10% off and these guys are tempting me to buy a LPVO , and I'm one of them guys that bought a 16in AR 💀
If only my razor hd 1-10 would arrive I can have an optic on my rifle
The first question should be for use, and then caliber.