Zia-ul-Haq's Fascism, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and the Movement for Democracy - Aslam Khwaja -
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- Activist and Journalist Aslam Khwaja comes on the podcast to discuss his book, "People's Movement of Pakistan", that goes into the details of the torture camps during Zia-ul-Haq's dictatorship, PPP, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, the Movement for the Restoration for Democracy, Politics and the current political climate.
Born in Hyderabad, Sindh on 25th December 1962, Aslam Khwaja joined Left politics in late 1970s, during General Zia Martial Law with the students wing of Communist Party of Pakistan. Aslam Khwaja has also written and translated more than two dozen books in Sindhi, Urdu and English.
The Pakistan Experience is an independently produced podcast looking to tell stories about Pakistan through conversations.
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The podcast is hosted by comedian and writer, Shehzad Ghias Shaikh. Shehzad is a Fulbright scholar with a Masters in Theatre from Brooklyn College. He is also one of the foremost Stand-up comedians in Pakistan and frequently writes for numerous publications.
shehzadghiasshaikh
Facebook.com/Shehzadghias/
shehzad89
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
01:55 Khwaja’s Book, Zil e Shah, Zia’s cruelty and MRD, leaders standing with their workers
17:39 Rawalpindi Conspiracy Case, first elections, and Radio Pakistan Dhaka’s resistance
27:02 West Pakistan’s apathy, hypocrisy of PTI, and why didn’t the awam resist in 1971
35:55 Bhutto’s role in creation of Bangladesh, his anti-people actions, his role in bringing politics to the people, and Liyari
53:00 Bhutto’s legacy, abandoning leftist ideals, why there weren’t nationwide protests
1:04:59 Dictators attempting to turn politicians, Musharaf’s state funeral, Nusrat Bhutto and anti-Zia politics
1:17:44 Why PPP’s Sindh isn’t like PMLN’s Punjab, Sindh Cafe, Benazir’s return in 1986, separation of state and its people
1:26:33 Difference between now and then, alignment of movements for unified resistance, PTI’s attempt to reverse 18th amendment
1:37:39 PTI’s politics, Benazir’s rise and MRD’s role
1:46:06 How Aslam Khwaja was arrested, meeting his torturer, and seeing humanity even in distress
1:57:23 Audience Questions - Розваги
It was a very engaging discussion with Aslam Khawaja Sahib. Unfortunately, we don't have this breed of intellectual and courageous people. This is the result of persistent suppression of thoughts which has ended a balanced and moderate society.
What a personality. Living legend or should I say library. Thank you, Shahzad, for introducing such personalities with us.
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I ABSOLUTELY loved this episode and how aslam khwaja sahab shared history of Pakistan with so much kindness and passion. What a beautiful storyteller and human being he is.
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Would love to see more of him on your show, absolutely loved how organic and sincere the discussion was
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What an impressive person. Knowledge, memory, political acuity, generosity of spirit. Hope you bring him back for more.
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Hats off to you for presenting Aslam Khawaja's point of view to the deaf and dumb millions in the country.
This man is a living library. We PTI people give you a lot of flak Shehzad, but there is no doubting the incredible passion and commitment that you give to this platform. This is incredible work. Disagreements notwithstanding, your service to elevating our political consciousness must be appreciated and respected. Keep it up.
@mali I won't comment on this because this message was an appreciation for Shehzad. I will keep it to that. Getting into a political exchange will dilute the message that was intended.
I’m really looking forward to this one. He lived through the history. Thank you
Loving personality and our country needs this type of leaders.
super good program. The Pakistan Experience is doing a fantastic job.
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I had a lump in my throat when he briefly talked about meeting his torturer again, and the entire discussion on "zaroori tou nahin kae loog mukamal toor par borae hain". Thank you for interviewing him Shezad, you guys are doing a fantastic job 🙏🙏. Definitely adding his book to my wishlist
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Stockholm syndrome
You're doing an amazing job, for people like us allergic to books this channel is a gold mine of knowledge
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@@ThePakistanExperiencecongratulations TPE .. some Pakistani are understanding now.🎉🎉🎉🙏🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳
@@sandeepray1526 nikal bhosri kay
@@sandeepray1526 The Well educated pakistanis and ppl who always have patience to understand otherside of rationales. But the elites who r in power they want slaves not the educated mass who can analyse things and question authority.
@@zafibaba brother recently we seen what happened with imran khan, imran Riaz Khan & many others. So I don't think Pakistan is a country where you can't question to Pakistani army generals. Let's hope for good things going to happen 🙏🙏
simply amazing!.. hoping more episodes can be done with Mr Aslam as guest. Great insight and info! ..keep up the amazing work Pakistan Experince
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Good and knowledgeable interview and I am impressed of your preparation and knowledge. How you as a young man know the history up to this extent. Appreciated.
I read 🙌
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His conversation reminds of Sindh and my hometown Hyderabad. I am out of country for work right now and reminisce the amazing times that we had in Sindh whilst growing up.
I wish Pakistan would have grown and none of its citizens have had to leave their homes, let alone the country, to live a normal safe life.
he seems very intellectual person. and pleasurable to hear
Once again thank you shahzad for making me think beyond what was written in my school books and as child i always belived every word of it
You are donig a great iob and a service to every pakistani . Thank you
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HINDUSTAN , PAKISTAN OR BANGLADES KE SABHI MUSLIM BHAI/BAHEN (SABHI FIRAKO KE) PAHELE HINDU THE....
USE APANE MUL HINDU DHARM ME VAPAS AANA CHAHIYE.... 🙏
OR SABHI HINDU/MUSLIM BHAI/BAHENO KO DIL SE , PURI MAHENAT SE YE KAM KARANA CHAHIYE.... 🙏
TABHI SUKH/SHANTI HOGI....
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@bharatahir792you are 100% right
@@sukhpindersangha4254
SADAR AABHAR.. 🙏
YE BAT/COMENT HAR AEK MUSLIM BHAI/BAHENO TAK ,
PAHOCHAY.. 🙏
BATAYE.. 🙏
SAMAJAYE.. 🙏
LIKHE.. 🙏
☝ YE KAM HAR AEK HINDU BHAIO KO DIL SE , PURI MAHENAT SE KARANA HOGA....
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
you have to have him back again. great podcast.
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You and others like you gives me hope and optimism not only about Pakistan but for the whole world who are contributing according to their capacity even if it’s small , will make a huge difference one day. Shehzad keep up the amazing work you are doing!
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One of a very distinguished and a knowledgeable guest you got on the show. Very kind of him to share these experiences.
Shehzad bhai you are building a library for pakistan which was long missing😅.
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You should have questioned him what did he feel as a so called progressive Zulfiqar supporter when he passed conservative laws like declaring Ahmediyas as Non-Muslims, banning alcohol etc. It would have been great to see what a learned supporter thought of these at that time.
What's wrong with banning alcohol?!
True, he made the ahmadi issue a political one, when it was about theology
@@mariarauf3280 the founding stone was laid by Bhutto
@@an_orange8911 have you had alcohol??
Very valid question. 👏
Salute to Aslam Khuwaja !
This episode is like Breaking Bad. Starts off slow and feels underated during the start but it picks up the pace and the intellect of Comrade Aslam Khwaja makes it the best ever episode that I have watched of the Pakistan experience.
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Thanks
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I feel there is still more we could learn and just know through him so it would be really great if you call him again. Also the history of sindhi nationalists like Sheikh Ayaz, GM Syed and Rasoolbux Palijo isn't discussed much so it would also be interesting to know about that part of our History. You doing great work btw thanks Shehzad
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Listening to your great podcast. My salute to Aslam Khawaja Sir 🙏🙏
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One of the best, Shehzad Bhai!
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dear Shehzad bhai,, I truly love your podcast like this one and also the funnier ones.. Keep doing it.. honest people like you are most needed in this country.. ❤
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Loved every bit of it. Aslam Khawaja saheb has a treasure of knowledge and wisdom to share. Please invite him again to discuss some other part of his book.
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Very good discussion shehzad bhai
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VERY good THANKS REGARDS
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Ask these people to publish audible versions of their books
Bro I am very inspired ur program format thanks to u giving such use full information knowledge abouts the history of pakistan 🇵🇰 thanks again Allah protect and blessed u
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Incredible
THANK YOU YOU MADE ME FEEL GOOD FELT I WAS WATCHING A MOVIE OF MY PAST LIFE I AM A PUJARI OF ZAB.
Love your wit and the ease with which you address important issues!! (@31.00)
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U deserve love & subscription
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Brilliant....brilliant podcast!
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Informative
Really enjoyed... Such content will enrich posterity
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thank you Ada for sharing this !
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Isko lazmi sunain. Jon Jon sunty jain gy enjoy karain gy.
I'm gonna make a weird request but hear me out. You've got some archive-level stuff here. Stuff that can be used for research purposes.
I'm sure you already have some backup of these interviews. But, in any case, if a day comes that you're pressurized to take down some content (or it's taken down regardless of your consent), please keep these interviews in store somewhere. I'm praying that nothing like that happens and you're safe n sound.
But considering the fact-ose intolerance of the state, please keep such arrangements in place.
With love 💕
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Such a great thinking episode... Thanks
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No offense, but HIS narration felt like a dying tired voice of the segment of people in Pak who still can rationally think and knows history and fought for a secular Pakistan. Thank you so much for letting HIM speak uninterruptedly. Huge respect.
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have been listening to your podcast for the last more than a year and u r just amazing
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Loved it bro! For once, I think a 2 hour podcast didnt do this guest justice. Bring him again please.
Great interview. Enlightening.
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Two Sindhis openly critiquing Bhutto , as a muhajir Urdu speaker I applaud your objectivity
True healing of ethnic tensions can only happen in Pakistan if each ethnic group first puts their own leaders under the microscope
I am so grateful to Mr. Aslam Khwaja Saheb. What a profound podcast and what an experience to share. Indeed a true comrade.
He not only gave a different perspective on Bhutto Saheb as a leader but his comparison b/w the graves of Zia+Musharaf Vs. Bhutto sahwb & Edhi murhoom is indeed an eye opener..
One Request:
Saien Shehzad Sheikh Saheb.
With all due respect, please do one podcast on the extrajudicial killings of the Urdu Speaking community in urban Sindh.
the 20k-29k citizen of urban sindh who got killed for some motives of state n a political party..
I'm not requesting you Saien 🙏 to make it pro- Altaf or MQM but invite someone like Khwaja saheb as a voice of for a community 'jinko koi poochne wala bhi nahin'
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We've had Farooq Sattar and Mustafa Kamal on who have spoken about it. Laurent Gayer also discussed it.
Sir, Saien Bhai🙏🙏🙏 Do u really think mr. sattar or mustafa kamal are "Azaad" to freely express their view point, we need people like Khwaja saheb, may be someone not political but 'humane' who miggt have lost someone dear, who might still be waiting for someone who innocently got picked by agencies decades ago , People about who Edhi saheb pointed out that he was given a total of 5000 deadbodies during operarion cleanup days to burry them in margala hills.
Sir Ghias, Mr. Farooq sattar, mustafa kamal, or even Mr. Altaf Hussain himself cannot represent and feel n express the agony of those families who lost these Pakistani nationals... for nothing..
"pyarey guey, ghur waley guey, mulk gaya, urdu zuban gui.. " for nothing..
Greetings from India. So many never disclosed incidents are coming out from closet. Thank you for enriching terrible history of Pakistan
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Good job bhai....❤
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It is a phosphorous flare not a flash bomb. Creates bright light and comes down slowly because of the parachute.
I have been following this channel for while now, and it is so underrated as compared to the content that you are producing, which shows our priorities as a nation. I am just dejected😢😢
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Absolutely vital podcast.
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True Story😊
I became a fan of your podcasts a month ago. Big fan of Muzamil Shah and that’s how I found your channel. I have learned so much history in the past one month. Even though I’m a Khan support but listening to your podcasts I learned a lot. Not a blind follower anymore. Best place to learn about the history of Pakistan.
Can I request a podcast? Whenever you get a chance can you please make a detailed video of how we(Pakistan) became a nuclear power? Thank you.
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becoming a nuclear power is achievement ?
then what is difference between north korea and Pakistan ?
@@shreeyanksinghvi7748 it was a big achievement but even if you p@jeet think it wasn't, it is indeed a part of our history and has many historical characters (SZAB, Zia, A.Q Khan) involved so it should be made common knowledge of how things happened.
Became a nuclear power courtesy the Bhopal born Hindus hater nuclear smuggler AQ khan and Chinese support… didn’t help u much though
Mashallah yaar, buhut maza aaya
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Again "behtreen" Shahzad. Tried many times to go to sleep but couldn't turned it off untill the end.
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for god sake one can hang a artisty picture in the backgrounds.
great podcast with equally depressing background.
Plz have him comeback soon on the podcast to discuss about all of the leftover topics you mentioned at the end.
Zia's fascism was a joke compared to what is happening now a days. I am old enough who have seen his entire rise and fall till 17th August 1988.
Now days r too better than Zia,s oppression , cruelties, brutalities pl note and mind it your so called PTi and leadership never can sacrifice as Bhutto, his family, workers and people's of that time dear , no one is matcheable to Bhutto leadership
Zabardast. Fabulous.
ہمیشہ انتظار رہتا ہے آپکی پوڈکاسٹ کا❤
ہمیشہ ایسے ہی کام کرتے رہیں صدا سلامت رہیں 😍
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Shehzaaad!! Chaa se gye ho! Aik k baad aik heera podcast!! You are turning me into a very knowledgable kaam wali. Like no one can fathom k bazahir bertan dhoti ye aurat apne airpods k thru kesi ghambeer guftagu ka hissa hai🤪 keep up the amazing work you're doin🙌🏻
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Badi khubsoorat Bartan dhone wali Khatun hain aap 😂
With utmost respect let me add that Khuwaja Sahab has failed to mention the most potent political forces which were at the forefront of the struggle against Ziya's oppressive regime viz Awami Tahreek of Rasool Bux Palijo. Awami Tahreek's sister orgs Shindhiani Tahreek & Mazdoor Tahreek played an important role in the struggle, particularly in the MRD movement. Alongside PPP, Rasool Bux Palijo's pol organizations played a vital role. Thousands of their male and female workers were sent to jails and punished. This was the first time in Sindhi history, after the Hur struggle of the first half of the 20th century, that hundreds of women activists of Sindhiani Tahreek of Palijo were jailed and punished.
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Dr. Arbab Khuhawar's Watan Dost Mazdor federation and their student wing also played an important role in the MRD movement and against Ziya's martial law.
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Though Ziya tried to pamper the octogenarian leader GM Sayed. But GM Sayed's followers suffered a lot during the Ziya regime. Thousands were jailed and dozens were killed.
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Please bring some intellectuals who can think beyond party affiliation and give a multi-facet view of the struggle against the Z iya's regime.
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MRD movement in 1983 couldn't create big momentum in the other parts of Pakistan. The epicenter of the struggle was Sindh. Because The National & Democratic Question was extremely Sharp in Sindh
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And, it created great momentum and mobilization in Sindh.
1983 impacted Sindhi literature as well. Thousands of Songs of Resistance were written and composed, and countless short stories were penned down that depicted the true picture of revolutionary zeal and pain and suffering, and racial profiling of Sindhis.
Thank you for adding this!
First of all, I would like to praise you for the work-exposing the truth-you are doing. In a country where the constitution does guarantee freedom of freedom expression under Article 19, but the state suffocates this right, exposing the truth is a very dangerous task altogether. I thank you for your work.
Second, as you know Pakistan is a society where patriarchy is pervasive in every segment of the society. Women are unable to live a humane life here in the country. They have fought very hard to secure their rights even under the rule of dictators. People, here in the country, are not aware of these struggles. In this regard, I would love to see you making a podcast highlighting women struggle movements.
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The guest Aslam Khawaja must have born in the year 1952, as per his memories and discussion and not the year 1962 as mentioned in your introductory note.
🙏JAY SHREE KRISHN🙏
Heard Mr Aslam for the first time, he's such a great narrator while listening to him it felt like the entire history and Zia's era was playing like film infront of my eyes.
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Please caption ko English mein convert krke upload kiya kare video
There Are Hundreds Of Living Persons In The PRESENT DAY PAKISTAN, Who Were Educated In DHAKKA /MYMENSINGH/RAJSHAHI/CHITTAGONG. I AM ONE OUT OF THOSE WHO STUDIED AT D.U.
Invite Abrar of WildLens by Abrar. He has seen India in the last 30 days like no Pakistani has ever seen in many decades. He is highly diplomatic and politically correct, but if you can get him to open up, he can provide you in depth analysis of what works for India and what can be done in Pakistan. I am myself am Indian, but would like to know Abrar's thoughts, as he has travelled extensively in India by road and met hundreds of common people of my country.
He is now in Pakistan.
Hope you'll think about.
Best wishes.
خواجہ صاحب کا یہ انٹرویو ایک تاریخی دستاویز ھے۔ تاھم ایک وضاحت ضروری سمجھتا ھوں کہ محترمہ فرخندہ بخاری صاحبہ ترقی پسند تحریک PWA جنرل سیکرٹری سید فارغ بخاری پشاور کی زوجہ نہیں تھیں۔
سیدطاھرعباس (صوبائی ڈپٹی سیکرٹری اطلاعات ' خیبرپختونخوا۔
ولد_سید فارغ بخاری و برادر سید قمرعباس ( شہید ) سابقہ سینئر نائب صدر و سینئر منسٹر
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He is really old but still can speak greatly.❤
@@ThePakistanExperience jibran Nasir ko bulao sir suna hai Kisi banned organization ne uthaya? ( Source: adil raja 😂)
He is literally 10 years younger than our ex prime minister Imran. But nobody seems to see/notice/mention doing absurd things at this age and criticize him for that.
If a 10 year older guy can speak greatly why is it surprising/curious a 10 year younger person doing it.? 🤔
@@mr.mcfunk how you know his age? He seems elder than handsome?
Name of the book please? I think I missed it.
Peoples movement of Pakistan
Keep doing the good work sir
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Pakistanis Keep doing postmortem of all the influencial personalities who impacted their country except Gen Zia ul Haq. Would like to know the biography of this one person who has had the biggest impact on the country's future.
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Great man!!
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Great interview as always. Please invite Javed Ahmed Ghamidi. If he can’t try his prodigy Hasan Ilyas.
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Keep it up bro♥️♥️
In 1986 peoples were looking Benazir as light at the end of Tunnel . I was also in Lahore .
There were countless people in Lahore . Also remember population of Pakistan on that time was 8 or 9 crore not 24 crore .
Benazir was also some time compromised but at the end that brave lady prfered to die
Where is this book available for sale? Are the memoirs of those who suffered jail and torture under Zia, referenced in the book and sold in book forms?
They are referenced. You can check out his website for more. I think its his name . Com
www.aslamkhwaja.com/
@@ThePakistanExperience Thank you for responding!
You are right thinking
Koi bhii movement fail nahii hotii
Wo agar 100 % result naa achieve karee too bhii apnaa assar choor jatii hee
shehzad i want you to do full dedicated podcast for Asma jahangir... i think she is one of worlds bravest woman...
True
Please note lots of Punjabi’s and muhajir were in Al zulfiqar
The REAL resistance against Zia ul Baatil
Neither Zia Ul Haque was Shaheed, nor Z. A. Bhutto was Shaheed!!
I appreciate the historical perspective but his scorecard of PPPs recent performance is anecdotal. Need to see meta-data on development indices to make a sound judgement
Fair
Great Man
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where to buy his books in hard
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👍👍👍
شکر ہے کسی جگہ سے سچ سننے کو مل رہا ہے
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Aslam khowaja is a bold and daring character left politics in Pakistan
aaj say 10saal pehle tk ka i can tell many ppl used to visit Zia qabar when returning from jumah at faisal mosque, including me and my family :p i was kid then
Sajjad Zaheer is Indian actor & politician Raj Babbar's father-in-law. Interesting bit about him.
Sir, what is the name of your extremely esteem guest???
Again Sir,his introduction😢 his background is not at all enough .
Sir your guest is a multiple folded chapters of Pakistan’s 🇵🇰 history.
Be RETRENCHED 80% dictator Decoit of pak ARMY belongs to Honourable PUNJAB Imperialism 3 LAKHS in FOUJI FOUNDATION Not paying TAXES looting in so called Cantonments area For security of Pakistan Justification Must Be made with Slaves Provinces SINDH BALUCHISTAN Saraiki in pak ARMY Quota by Retrenchment of Punjabi 80% dictator Decoit thanks from A HARD LUCK MOHAJIR Retired Abdul Qadir aged 77 years
4:25 i thought you were gonna cry. 😅