Cardinal ZEN gives Michael Lofton BOTH BARRELS! Mystery surrounds Cardinal Pell death
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
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links
• Sophist Michael Lofton...
catholicherald.co.uk/podcast/...
catholicherald.co.uk/islam-in...
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024...
oldyosef.hkdavc.com/?p=2043
Summary
In this conversation, the hosts discuss various topics including Cardinal Zen's criticism of Michael Lofton, Cardinal O'Malley's support for Rupnik's victims, the Vatican ex-Auditor General's comments on Cardinal Pell's death, and Cardinal Becciu's protest against his financial crime accusations. They also touch on the controversy surrounding Rupnik's artwork and the need for accountability in the Catholic Church. The hosts express their opinions on these issues and share their concerns about the handling of these matters by the Vatican. In this conversation, the hosts discuss various topics including tattoos, attacks on conservative MPs, the dangers of Islam in British democracy, and the Prevent Duty. They highlight the hypocrisy and bias of the left, the challenges faced by MPs, and the rise of anti-Semitism. The hosts emphasize the need to protect Jewish neighbors and engage in a democratic conflict with Islam and the left. They also mention the importance of supporting Catholic Unscripted through memberships and donations.
Keywords
#cardinal #zen Michael Lofton, Cardinal O'Malley, #rupnik victims, #vatican ex-Auditor General, Cardinal Pell's death, Cardinal Beciu, financial crimes, Rupnik's artwork, #accountability #catholicchurch tattoos, #conservative #MPs, attacks, #islam British democracy, dangers, #Jewish neighbors, #Preventduty, #anti-Semitism left #democraticprinciples #conflict Catholic Unscripted, memberships, donations
Takeaways
Cardinal Zen criticizes Michael Lofton for not following the hermeneutics of continuity when criticizing the fiducia supplicant.
Cardinal O'Malley speaks up in support of Rupnik's victims and criticizes the Vatican's decision to display Rupnik's art.
The Vatican ex-Auditor General raises questions about Cardinal Pell's death, suggesting that it may be shrouded in mystery.
Cardinal Betu protests against his financial crime accusations, claiming that he has done nothing wrong.
There is a need for accountability and transparency in the Catholic Church, especially in handling sensitive issues and allegations. The left often engages in hypocrisy and bias, attacking conservative MPs and promoting certain ideologies while silencing others.
MPs, especially those who speak out against certain ideologies, face intimidation and abuse, which can have real-world consequences.
The rise of Islam in British democracy poses a danger to Jewish neighbors and the democratic process.
The Prevent Duty, intended to counter extremism, has been ineffective and has even targeted individuals for expressing their views against Hamas.
It is important to support Catholic Unscripted through memberships and donations to sustain their work in providing news and analysis.
Titles
Controversy Over Rupnik's Artwork
Cardinal Zen's Criticism of Michael Lofton Supporting Catholic Unscripted
Protecting Our Jewish Neighbors
Sound Bites
"Lofton doesn't really know what he's talking about."
"Mr Lofton is defending the Pope and nobody can blame him for that. But I am sure his nonsense will not help the Holy Father in any way."
"It's our moral duty to protect the victims."
"As far as I know with my colleagues Cardinal's in none of us have any tattoos although two of us do have beards but we're willing to take advice on how they're shaped."
"Let's just pray for those continuing to try and see if there's anything that needs to be brought to light."
"The left hate her. She's a beautiful woman, she's an articulate woman, she's a funny woman."
Chapters
00:00
Introduction and Cardinal Zen's Criticism of Michael Lofton
02:17
Cardinal O'Malley's Support for Rupnik's Victims
04:27
Questions Surrounding Cardinal Pell's Death
23:44
Controversy Over Rupnik's Artwork
25:10
The Need for Accountability in the Catholic Church
27:52
Tattoos and Beards
28:57
Attacks on Conservative MPs
29:27
Praying for Those Uncovering Church Scandals
30:24
Smear Campaigns and Hypocrisy
32:21
The Dangers of Conversion Therapy
35:17
The Ideology of the Left
46:40
Islam in British Democracy
50:36
Protecting Our Jewish Neighbors
54:09
Supporting Catholic Unscripted
ua-cam.com/video/btB3w8g-_dU/v-deo.htmlsi=Bjm9AMNAK-eQBhQX
I would not have seriously considered the idea of the murder of Cardinal Pell, however I live in Victoria and followed the events closely. I spoke to a Protestant retired magistrate who spoke about how horrified the Law Society was at the kangaroo court proceedings at the second trial. The lawyers initiated the High Court review process which also contained a majority of non Catholics, who agreed that the legal process was appalling, and exonerated Pell. Even the prisoners cheered when he was released.
There was a background story to this. A retired police officer reacted to a historical church coverup of longstanding clerical abuse in northern Victoria. He found support in very anti Catholic members of the police hierarchy, left wing politicians with known Marxist links, and the gay lobby, who are very powerful in Australia. Victoria was extremely anti Catholic and in the recent past Catholics could not apply for jobs and were not able to attend school. This is why Catholic schools were founded in the 1930s, and there was a strong push to get Catholics educated and into the professions like Law and Medicine. This pushback was led by the great Irish Archbishop of Melbourne Daniel Mannix. So there was a lot of Australian history and politics of antiCatholicism involved in this case.
Cardinal Pell took some strong political positions. He was also hated with a vengeance by the post vatican II staff of seminaries, who had a Ted McCarrick problem. Pell shut them down.
He did have a history of heart problems and had been in poor health for years so his death was not unexpected.
Thx for the info. Death so quickly after hip replacement is very unusual given recent advances. On thing that bothered me about cdl Pell was when debating atheist Richard Dawkins , he refused to acknowledge that Adam and Eve existed. Dawkins pounced on this claiming there couldn’t be “original sin” without “original parents”. Pell was way off on that. Otherwise he was a good man.
I watched a very interesting interview with Cardinal Pell after he was released from prison. He said that he had only been permitted to watch the ordinary channels on TV but he was able to keep up with the news and he also spent quite a bit of time, he said, watching the US TV Evangelists. This raised all sorts of theological issues which he had never really considered. He admitted that he had never really understood the letters of St. Paul, so took the opportunity of reading and meditating on them. He said that his time in prison was a sort of spiritual retreat from which he greatly benefitted. As to his efforts to bring the dishonesty at the Vatican Bank into the light, he was never likely to succeed in that, so he was, mercifully, released by the Lord from what was simply a hopeless and soul destroying task. As to his death after the operation, he was known to have a heart condition and it is not unusual for people of his age to die following a general anaesthetic.
There was, clearly, something very wrong with the Judicial system in the State of Victoria. Given the assessment of the evidence by the Federal Court, where all seven Judges were unanimous in concluding that there was insufficient evidence to support a conviction, it was surprising that two of the Judges sitting in Victoria did not arrive at the same conclusion. If it had not been for Mr Justice Weinberg, a very much respected Judge who was close to retirement, delivering a dissenting Judgement, in which he refused to participate in the travesty of Justice urged upon him by his two fellow Judges, it would not have been possible for Cardinal Pell’s case to have progressed to the Federal Court. Then, I did read, very briefly, the account of the Trial at first instance. Instead of presenting all of the evidence in a fair and balanced way to the Jury (which would have involved stressing how much evidence, from very credible and consistent witnesses there was that Cardinal Pell was elsewhere at the time when the offence was alleged to have taken place) the Judge simply put it to the Jury in the most simplistic manner - if you believe the victim, enter a guilty verdict and if you believe Cardinal Pell, enter a not guilty verdict. The victim was a drug addict and it is almost certain that he had been heavily “coached” by the prosecution - to the extent that, in his own mind, having had the evidence which he was to give explained to him so often, the events became real in his own mind, even if they did not actually take place in fact. Finally, Cardinal Pell was convicted on the evidence of one witness alone. In Canon Law, following the injunctions of St. Paul, a Priest or Bishop may not be convicted on the evidence of one witness alone. Notwithstanding this, the Pope took the position that he must accept the verdict of the Court in Victoria, even though it flew in the face of Canon Law, the Sacred Scriptures and simply Christian charity.
Andrew Bolt covered this story in which he said that according to Card Pell's family he was in good health at the time.
God Bless Cardinal Zen...May Jesus and Mother Mary protect him from all harm and evil... Mr. Lofton is not as smart as he thinks...
Lofton was smarter then Zen, who failed to use church teaching,and simply was reduced to unchristian insults.
@@dan_m7774he is markedly smarter than these plonkers as well.😔
@@dan_m7774 LOL!!
@@dan_m7774😊
@@dan_m7774 Lofton is likely CIA.
Hey, we got a shout out. 😂 Thanks guys.
I love you guys. Thanks for everything you're doing.
Oh, sedes of the world unite, I guess. Martin Luther would be proud.
@@EdwardBray-i1w
None of these guys are sedes, ignorant. You'd knew if you actually listened to them.
Insult away that is all you have.
Cardinal Pell pray for us. ❤
😢
I'm praying for him at his tomb right now in the crypt at St. Mary's Cathedral and asked that he pray for us and the Church
You can't judge if someone is in heaven by saying Cardinal George Pell pray for us. You can't Canonise a person who has passed away.
@@soldierofmary984 +JMJ Popular acclaim always has been a factor in canonization. We pray to souls whose holiness has convinced us of the power of their intercession. It often precedes formal canonization. A true soldier of Mary would know that already and wouldn't bully the faithful.
Rather pray for the repose of his soul
I loved Gavin's "conversion therapy is at the heart of Christianity!" Wonderful
God bless Cardinal Zen’s candor
Bless insulting someone's appearance is not Catholic
@@dan_m7774 Poor Dan, do you even understand what this is about?
@@cityoftruth9808 Do you? Do you sincerely understand Catholic theology? Genuinely, even this content is clearly Protestant, not Catholic but in name.
@@EdwardBray-i1w You sling the word "protestant" around like your master- are you really asking me if I understand Catholic theology? or just pretending like you do? You have great self-esteem but it may have blinded you to the true size of your soul.
@cityoftruth9808 My master is Jesus, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. As for my observation, it was directed by this content, which is clearly Protestant. Regarding you, I asked if you actually knew Catholic theology. With respect to my self-esteem, I am as complex as everyone else, nothing special in that regard.
As a Yank, I can honestly confess, that no one can roast like the Brits. Many blessings.
Actually they come off as uninformed
@@dan_m7774 were you listening to another podcast? 🤣🤣
@@marklambert5232 They simply attack the messenger Lofton, yet never discussed the documents and the evidence he presented. They could be easily called out as well.
@@dan_m7774I listen to all their videos and they are definitely not misinformed. They were right on about Lofton, he viciously attacks anyone who disagrees with the Pope.
@@marklambert5232 A typical apologist for Lofton- nearly meaningless defense, more of a deflection really- think of it "evidence" scratch that word and you find a religious materialist.
Michael Lofton doesn’t even behave like a Catholic virtually no humility and to be criticizing a cardinal of the standing of cardinal Zen just goes to prove what sort of person Michael Lofton is he runs to the defense of Pope Francis, who cancels conservative, loved bishops, and priest, and also on the other hand, endorses the homosexual agenda through his friend father James Martin
Lofton proved Zen wrong, regardless how much you want to dump on the Church to support Zen
@@dan_m7774 Lofton fan boy...
@@dan_m7774 Dan, you don't know what it means to "prove" a thing.
Lofton is a member of the laity, it was cardinal Zens responsibility to correct him on where he was wrong. But he didn’t, he resorted to schoolyard name calling and that is disturbing
He is thoroughly Catholic, even in fidelity. Lots on this page, who claim the name Catholic are the ones behaving more like Protestants. I hope no genuine, faithful, Catholic support this content, else risk losing their soul.
Did Australian anti-Catholicism have a significant role in the persecution and death of Cardinal Pell?
Yes very much so.
YES !
The last respectable prejudice for woke protestants and the post Christian WASPS
I imagine calling someone a big man with a small beard has some other meaning in Chinese, maybe a reference to a Chinese writing character. People in Hong Kong have a sense of humour.
Personal attacks to deflect from the evidence is universal
@@dan_m7774+JMJ Maybe for those who lack humility and a sense of humour.
Literally, thank God for blessing the Church with leaders like Cardinal Pell and Cardinal Zen!
SAINT FAUSTINA'S PRAYER
FOR THE HOLY CHURCH AND PRIESTS
O my Jesus, I beg Thee on behalf of the whole Church: Grant it love and the light of Thy Spirit, and give power to the words of priests so that hardened hearts might be brought to repentance and return to Thee, O Lord. Lord, give us holy priests; Thou Thyself maintain them in holiness. O Divine and Great High Priest, may the power of Thy mercy accompany them everywhere and protect them from the devil's traps and snares which are continually being set for the souls of priests. May the power of Thy mercy, O Lord, shatter and bring to naught all that might tarnish the sanctity of priests, for Thou canst do all things. (Diary 1052)
Zen is in error, and attacking the seat of Peter is attacking the authority of Christ over him. Francis is divinely protected, Zen is not
@@dan_m7774 Popes are only protected from error ( Papal infallibility) when they ''proclaim by a definitive act of doctrine pertaining to faith and morals'' ( CCC 891). This does not mean that popes are impeccable ( incapable of sin) or inerrant ( incapable of error ).
@@dan_m7774What has Pope Francis' backside got to do with anything?
+JMJ Hyperpapalism is a sin against the Chair of Peter and the Church. The propagation of error and evil is never divinely protected. You're confused with Pachemama worship. Your statements flout Lumen Gentium and the Second Vatican Council. They also flout Scripture and Tradition.
@@charles1738 Zen is not covered by any infallible protection, and is making false claims in disobedience to the Papal Magisterium which is binding on him.
Cardinal Zen has survived the outrageous slings and arrows of others. He has Heroic Humility.
Cardinal Zen didn’t address anything theologically. He missed with both barrels.
I am viewing u guys for the first time. I'm in Mumbai and ur discussion was informative and happily jovial. Yes, the saints who have gone before us fought, so we all received, but a growing number don't know where they got all this from. We will fight to keep it. Thank you. I shall be here. Our Lady protect you always.
Thank you Mario and welcome to the channel 🙏
FYI. This is NOT faithful Catholic content, this is Protestant. Please be aware.
Yeah nothing of substabce here.
I’ve been shadow banned on loftons channel for disagreeing with him. He told me that my criticism of him was sinful and I should go to confession. He’s a legend in his own mind.
I was banned from Lofton channel for me pointing out he was an ahole for misrepresenting a statement and making a conclusion I never made. Yet Zen is still wrong and Lofton gets it right.
You can't even for that right.
You couldn't lie straight in the bed.
@@dan_m7774you quickly let us know why you were banned and haven’t figured it out yet.
What you call shadow banning UA-cam calls being blocked. One doesn’t know whether or not they have been blocked. We have to figure that out ourselves after not getting replies or likes to posts. You likely didn’t address what he was talking about and instead attacked the Magisterium.
@@paulmualdeave5063 - I was following you until your last sentence. I was on topic. Lofton couldn’t handle it and melted like a snowflake. I did not attack the magisterium as you assert. I would only attack heretics and apostates.
Lofton, an otherwise conservative Catholic, has become a hyperpapalist. UA-cam has made us all voyeurs of American Catholic culture wars. Lofton's swagger is the mirror image of Taylor Marshall's bombast.
I value Catholic Unscripted's output, even when I disagree with some of the comments. But so far, I've resisted becoming a member because it might encourage me to spend more time on the internet. There's more to life - faithful Catholic life - than UA-cam.
Don't resist! Join the community! Go for Gold and get all the inside information!
Wasn't there a quiz show years ago called Going for Gold?! I'll have a think about it. @@marklambert5232
And commenting on its channels. Just sayin'.
Im sorry to question again but other sources say Pell didnt die on the operating table but postoperatively. But either way; mortality at a hip operating is only around 1%, and Cardinal Pell was by all accounts very active. I have been waiting for someone to address this concern. Thank you.
He died post op. Unusual especially so soon after surgery. Too soon for blood clots or a heart attack but not impossible. Don’t know if an autopsy was performed. Pell was exposing corruption in the Vatican bank.
He was also 81 and had had a d!cky ticker for many years and lived under immense stress for at least the previous five years. It is really not too unusual for 81 year old men to die , especially in such a range of circumstances, I am sad to say.
I had a friend who had regular operations to clear bladder cancer (which is, generally, quite treatable - the growths are simply removed from time to time and it does not always spread elsewhere). He had always had these carried out privately, under local anaesthetic and sedation, because of his age (he was 85). Then, he decided to save money and have the procedure on the NHS. The NHS found the local anaesthetic and sedation process too complicated, so gave him a general anaesthetic. He never came round and died shortly afterwards. It is not usually considered wise to give a general anaesthetic to someone over eighty, particularly if he has heart problems (as Cardinal Pell did). So, his decision to have surgery with a general anaesthetic was not a wise one.
@@virginiacharlotte7007His family say that he was in good health. Seems like your information is incorrect.
Don’t apologise for raising the questions. That’s exactlywhat we here to do.
Some of you may be wondering why the T in words like _often, soften, listen, hasten_ is silent but is pronounced in place-names (some of which were adopted as surnames). The answer is simple: phonological rules are applied at certain periods in time and then fall into disuse. When the T-silencing rule was in effect, place names like _Grafton, Lofton_ were still essentially distinct words (ton or tun being our modern word town) and it was only later that the -ton came to be treated as a suffix rather than a freestanding lexeme.
Yes I have orphan wondered that myself!
Give the Ruth Institute a plug!
Dr. Jennifer Roback Morse. Currently discussion is on Ex Gays and how to support them.
Please try to avoid ad hominem
Attacks. Cardinal Zen , whom I admire greatly, would have been more effective in his criticism had he avoided refering to Mr Lofton’s physical appearance.
Yeah, I have to agree with that. It really was unbecoming language of anyone from the clergy, much less someone who's spent several decades in the direct service of the Lord. (Though, I can't disagree with him on his point... or his comments 😏)
On the other hand, the Cardinal is very senior - near 90 years of age? Perhaps he had the right to verbally chastise a much younger man (who appears to think a lot of himself, that is, is not very modest, or wise).
Exactly - beneath the dignity of a Cardinal I would say.
i dont believe so as Micgael Lofton takes pot shots at people-too.
@@papadan3he’s but the Cardinal holds a more dignified and responsible position and must remain the adult in the room
Enoch Powell was right.
Mr Powell denied that Christ was crucified, claiming it was more likely that he was stoned. I don't think he was right on that score.
exactly! go Cardinal Zen!! go go go
It's official: I can now say that I identify with Zen! That'll confuse my friends...
Does that make you "Generation Zen"?
Well yes but a bit younger!@@richardyates7280
PRAY, PRAY, PRAY FOR THE TRUE TLM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST
There is no Church without the Pope. You are not in the Church.
I was right. The friends of Cardinal Zen from China say that calling a person a big man with a small beard in China is a way that a great grandfather lovingly chides a great grandson for disrespecting his elders. We would say in English, "Being too big for his boots ".
Being murdered on the OR table would implicate his anesthetist as the prime suspect.
It wouldn't be iconoclasm because it isn't sacred art. Rupnik purposely subverted the measurements etc to showcase a distorted theology.
Cardinal Pell's Demos memo!
Lofton's grift is to attack other Catholics who disagree with him he is loathsome
Yet Zen went for the loathsome personal attack , and Lofton pointed out the Church teaching providing the documents.
Loathsome is perfect, excellent.
@@matthewcauthorn9731 Zen was loathsome being a Bishop reduced to name calling, and allowing a lay person to produce church teaching documents to correct him.
@@dan_m7774 your work against unity in this comment section is laudable. Be wary of judging cardinals as a layman. You might find you're not as sanctified as you think you are.
@@VACatholic I think a bishop against the Church is the issue to worry about. When a Papal Magisterium document is presented, the reliability of protection of the holy Spirit is with the Magisterium.
"Devil" from the Greek diabolos can be translated as "to divide" or "to throw against". In contrast, Christ called us to UNITY, "that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me." Catholics must stay strong in our love of God and obedience to the Magesterium. Reject the arrogance and schism of self-appointed authorities who sow division in the Church!
Dividing off from Christ. There were false prophets in those days as there are in every age. They always find a following with those who love to be told what they want to hear. They promote lawlessness and in doing elevate themselves above God becoming the Lawgiver and Judge in their mind. They reject the Word of God in favor of the voice in their head. You shall know them by their fruit.
Its clear many are promoting and approving evil and those who partake in it as good. They leave no room for repentance thinking evil is good they believe they are not sick and are in no need of a Healer. This has always been even the Chief Priest and many leaders of the House Jesus called His Father’s He called children of the Devil. Remember Mark 4:13.
It was never about tolerance for pride but about forced celebration. They have been tolerated my entire life this was about moving into forced celebration.
Love the accurate pokes at Mr “Reason” Loften himself. He twists himself into so many contradictions pope-splaining for Francis.
So, have you watched Lofton's response to Card. Zen? What do you think about it? I think it is unbecoming for a cardinal to say such personal attacks. Lofton has valid points in his criticisms to Card. Zen.
The Cardinal was responding to personal attacks by Lofton. Lofton’s attacks were ‘unbecoming’ don’t you think ?
The cardinal’s response was clear, cogent and compelling.
It’s not clear from your misplaced lament whether you have read them …
All you Lofton fans have been lulled into an illiterate stupor- seriously John......What a misread. You honestly don't understand Cardinal Zen's words? Poor Michael Lofton would be very prudent to heed them. On the other hand, what an act of charity to condescend to the lowliness of Lofton to offer filial correction and to warn all of you dodo birds to find faithful mentors.
@@DrGAshenden what personal attacks from Lofton? Is it personal to say that Card. Zen is inconsistent with his position on Vatican II and Fiducia Supplicans regarding his use of hermeneutic of continuity? That's an argument that Card. Zen avoids responding instead he writes an ad hominem article about Lofton.
@@johndexterramos7645 it may be time you got out a bit:-
ua-cam.com/video/btB3w8g-_dU/v-deo.htmlsi=UpkZSxHDHyb5VnQa
@@DrGAshendenare yoy gaslighting get real.
Not happy and disgusted with how Cardinal Pell's body was treated and sent back to Australia, its a dishonour and disgrace. All because he was exposing the corruption. Its not on.
Lofton is trying to make a name for himself at the expense of the beautiful mystery of our Holy Mother Church. He's riding the brand of love but don't repent atheism rising in the Church. He needs prayers.
Beauty wlll save us?
They wouldn't know Beauty if it fell on them!
And it will.
exactly Lofton is full of sophistry
I seriously question the charity and equanimity, and most importantly, the research efforts of this podcast. This channel is the car crash I just cannot look away from. 😢
Dear Virginia, it’s a very good thing to question what you see in front of you. Keep doing it. I have no doubts about the charity, but like beauty it’s partly in the heart of the beholder; I’m not sure what equanimity is in this context- ? If you can find better research elsewhere., then absolutely go for it- but we’re not bad in what we offer. The wonderful thing about the Internet is you get to choose what you watch. Happy choosing. Bless.
@@DrGAshenden the fact that you are affiliating with the like of Taylor Marshal L is incredibly worrying. I often like your own gospel commentaries and I think your Anglican theological and pastoral training is insightful in many cases. However, I think you are not at your personal best in this trio format. The three of you today slipped into as much ad- hominem ridicule as Cardinal Zen did with Lofton, and with not a lot of direct evidence against what Lofton was presenting in regards to Cardinal Zen. You will notice I am not the only commenter to pick you all up on this. Reflect upon it.
With regards to other news sources, I think you should be wary of where you are sourcing your Catholic news from. I do recommend the Where Peter Is website with Mike Lewis and , for the most part, the Crux news site with John Allen is generally impartial.
@@virginiacharlotte7007 Well, thanks for taking the trouble to reply thoughtfully, Let me respond in kind. We did agree that distinguishing between person and principle is difficult. Lofton has to take some responsibility for his own over-robust approach. It invites repudiation, and how then do you scape the charge of ‘ad hominem’, It’s not really possible. It’s the live by the sword die by the sword principle I think. In my judgment the virtues are all with Zen, and few with Lofton. That also informed my approach. ‘Affiliating’ with Taylor Marshall? We all have our gifts -virtues and vices. We can admire what is good and critique what we find unhelpful. The charge of association is a little too much like the Left demonising by association., We are allowed to talk to one another and enrich and challenge one another without being excommunicated or over associated. As for the trio, we all broadcast solo - and together. I love the together conversations,. Both Katherine and Mark bring stuff to the conversation I would never have access to on my own. I’m greatly privileged by their company. I think we have the best of all worlds. I hope we can give you enough to stay with us - but if not -we have to be true to our charisms and what we discern as our apostolate. Pray for us as we do for you/
hi It's my first time on your blog
Welcome!
Welcome to the channel. Hope you find the content both valuable and enjoyable 🙏
Cardinal Pell was actually found guilty by Victorian District Court, upheld on appeal to Victorian Appeals Court and reversed unanimously by the High Court with criticism of the Victorian DPP.
Victoria is rotten to the core. Dan Andrews now retired Premier is currently being investigated in respect of a car incident involving a young cyclist. His handling of covid was a disaster causing more deaths than all other Stated combined.
Vic police were fishing by calling for "victims" of Cardinal Pell to come forward.
Cardinal Pell's journals while in prison are excellent. His last written work shortly before death was a very unflattering critique of the state of the Church and the synodal nonsense.
Consider this:
Zen is a holy man, almost could be considered a living saint for all the persecutions he endured and how upright he stood when facing the communists in his country, to protect the faith. Lofton, in his pride and arrogance, attempts to discredit the Cardinal by belittling him.
Mr. Lofton should take Zen's criticism seriously, and humble himself.
He who is so obsessed with listening to the princes of the Church, respecting them and defending them at all cost... there goes his credibility. The guy is a joke, and nobody should listen to what he says. *Zen's right.*
Saints are not impeccable
@@briandelaney9710neither is Lofton.
@@MystoRobot saint Dominic (founder of the Dominican order) stayed up all night to dissuade someone of their heresy and was successful.
Cardinal zen, couldnt even formulate a short blog without insults while not addressing a single argument of lofton. Not exactly acting like a saint the holy church needs tbh.
@@gmurph2055you sound like Lofton you miss the forest for the tree of your hypersensitivity - what a lost generation and leader of a confederacy of dunces is the one eyed sophist michael Lofton- cosmic joke!!!
@@gmurph2055
That was Saint Dominic.
Saint-Nicolas punched Arius in the face, and God sent angels to free him from wherever they locked him up, not long after.
I'd say Zen in somewhere in-between.
Politeness doesn't make the saint: Faith & faithfulness to Christ does.
Zen saw something rotten in Lofton, as did pretty much everyone else in what I'd call the "no BS" Catholic world. In his case, blind obedience became a form of delinquency. A position he backs with lengthy arguments that are as shallow as those of protestants trying to back _theirs._
Those of us who haven't been seduced by Lofton's sophistry discerned the kind of guy he is, partly thanks to people who worked with him personally.
Is not the argument used at 14:00 (Mary giving birth) exactly the same argument which is used by 'devout' Islamists against those who draw cartoons of Mohammed? On the piers of the glorious Cathedral of the Most Precious Blood, in Westminster, are attached Eric Gill's take on the Stations of the Cross. Caravaggio was a convicted murderer. But the biblical view is that all humans are sinners, but capable of receiving grace: only God is Holy. Ought we to have a 'Virtue-Test' before we are permitted to use our artistic skills in the Christian context? Given that Jesus' Virtue-Test is, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!", I doubt there would be any Christian art. Furthermore, does it matter - in the case of Gill or Caravaggio - because we know about them? Who knows about the life of a 'Master of Sienna'? Yet we have glorious devotional polychromatic representations of the saints, by such Masters.
Who is Michael Lofton?
A Catholic Theologian, Doctoral Candidate with a standing Thesis on Magisterial Theology. He's one of the few UA-cam voices who stands firm with the actual Catholic Magisterium vs the numerous UA-cam personalities who stand in dissent of the Magisterium (including this site) affirming Protestant theology while claiming to be Catholic.
@@caspianlake8475 He is a charlatan lay UA-camr who changes religion every few years. He's been Catholic for four years, and is writing a dissertation at a substandard institution and has gotten thousands of ignorant listeners to think (1) that the hypothesis of his dissertation is Catholic Teaching which he calls "Charism of safety" and (2) that this gives him the credibility or standing to attack Bishops and Cardinals with far better education, training, and experience, not to mention Apostolic authority or the personal sacrifice so many of them have made for the Lord and his Church, some being living white martyrs.
As if it's not enough, like all other pushers of heresies in the past, he's gotten these gullible lay listeners to follow his bad example and think they, too, can go around attacking those same Bishops. A good number of them are recent converts from protestantism whose greatest fear in the world is being called Protestant 😂 So they tend to throw the word around like garlic at Dracula, thinking it will magically dissipate the arguments of those who call out their terrible non-arguments which they pick up from Lofton and just assume they've heard from the Church. In a way, you really gotta feel genuinely sorry for these folks.
Someone with a loud voice and nothing to say. It's not worth your time to know more. Go read a book and enjoy your ignorance. I certainly wish I had done the same....
@@EdwardBray-i1w please go read Ludwig Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, just for your own self-improvement. You shouldn't listen to anyone else's opinion until you've done a bit of legwork yourself. Ott is good legwork.
@anzot6903 Why would Ott provide any information, which Lofton hasn't affirmed with regards to the Magisterium and Catholic Doctrine? I mean, you are convinced Ott's work will contradict Michael's explanations and takes, yet both coincide in that you must stay in communion and submit to the teachings of the Pope to be part of the Church, while this is not what you guys are affirming.
You three are just awesome .
Not to defend Lofton, but as far as i can tell he goes through documents, selects facts, and discusses them as true or not. Thats about all i need. Did Zen do the same, take Lofton quotes in context and explain how they were incorrect? Or did he just call Lofton names? Forget who's who between these 2 guys, but what they say speaks to their character. Between whay Lofton said and then what Zen said, which obe used written facts and then made conclusions in context? BTW, it's unfortunate that the commentaters in this video also only name call, but no fact based reporting.
Thanks for drawing attention to Mr Lofton's channel. I had not heard of him before. On inspection his channel is an excellent defense of the Pope. Mr Lofton clearly knows his faith. Now that Vigano has been excommunicated and declared a schismatic, I trust that all true Catholics will reject Viganist heresy and his schismatic church, and be loyal to he successor of St Peter. Viva il Papa.
Rupnik is not the only artist making ugly church art. It's been around for decades. Maybe his case will be instrumental in getting rid of it.
Loftin is a really bad guy that spreads confusion of our faith
Lol, Lofton supplied the church teaching. Zen is telling you to doubt the Church, doubt the Pope, doubt the Magisterium.
If you are confused by the documents shown by Lofton, then you should enrol in a theology course. Lofton speaks the truths with facts and evidence based documents
E@@CatholicSaintsAndAngelse
I think you misspelled Zen.
Michael Lofton is a know all about the Catholic Church he’s a pain .
I've known about it since 2003. But thanks. They are free to do all the creative editing they want.
About what?
Cardinal Zen has reduced Lofton's credibility to just about zero. The Cardinal's comments couldn't have been more scathing.
please explain how resorting to name calling reduced loftons credibility?
Exactly the opposite has happened
Every time Lofton opens his mouth he puts his foot in it👊😂
Maybe worth looking at the Eric Gill controversy in Westminster Cathedral? The decision to keep his via crucis was based on analogy with the donatist controversy.
Yes, Henry, you’re quite right to raise Gill. As I suggested in a post above, I personally find the here problematically complex. The best I can say in these brief comments is that it can only be done on a case by case basis. And I haven’t yet made my mind up about Gill’s art. I think it’s an important ongoing discussion.
Eric Gill was a perverted sexual abuser, but as far as I'm aware he never committed the horrific blasphemies that Rupnik is credibly accused of. And he was undeniably a brilliantly gifted artist - unlike Rupnik. So I don't think we can make direct comparisons in this case. Are Gill's victims still alive and awaiting justice? I'm not defending Gill, but the situation is quite different to that of an ordained cleric still active and protected by powerful Vatican interests.
Can we separate the art from the artist? Possibly. Carravaggio killed someone in a brawl. Should we destroy his paintings?
When examining someone's philosophical ideas, we do distinguish between the truth of what they say and their moral qualities.
However, I would say that, if Rupnik's art is perverse, then do remove it. If it's akin to pornography ...
So they were right to chuck Colston's statue into the harbour, tear down anything to do with Rhodes, throw paint at artwork with dubious links etc.? Be very careful what you wish for. I don't like his art either but getting ranty and ad hominem is still very unattractive.
This whole podcast has weighed heavily on the side ad hominem attacks
@@virginiacharlotte7007 gosh you really don’t like us Virginia do you? Never mind.
I don’t think you listening to what we said. We were very careful to link the outrage that the mosaics represent to the specific victims of Rupnik’s debauchery. By extending the argument in the way you did, you have done exactly what we were disinclined to do.
Looks like a straw man to me.
Very happy to be criticised on what we said- less enthusiastic to have words we declined to say put in our mouths.
Katherine, Miriam Cates' church was not Baptist but Philadelphian, a non-Trinitarian sect.
Thank you for the clarification Edward
She may have moved on and is now a Christian. @catholicunscripted
Vatican wouldn’t like his tatoos. eh. ??
What is wrong with tatoos? Does the CCC say you cant get tatoos? Is there a new testemant law against this? Did you know he gat the tatoos before he converted?
Thumbs up on the self -deprecation!!
Good voices as always in challenging times. Another noxious generalisation of groups lumped together along the lines of the alphabet soup is the racial term ‘global majority’ which is just divisive.
With the Restrainer Removed -(Keys). the devil has no intention of seeking a cease fire but, will take full advantage, of the new open battle field, -clergy, laity, Hebrews, and world.....
The B16 manoeuvre, stepping 2 the side, has irreversibly broken the papacy. De coupling the keys from the chair, and with his funeral 5/1/23 we all enter a new dimension for the church.
great show. would be great for you to invite Henry Sire on as a guest!
I listened to one of Mr Lofton’s videos on former bishop Vigsno. In it he presented a ton of speculation as evidence. Things an internet sleuth personality could not possibly know he presented as irrefutable proof. The comments section was just full of people attacking anyone on the right side of the isle in typical left leaning ways.
Bless you all for trying.
I didn’t particularly care for Lofton. The very background he chooses to use for his videos/podcasts are dark. Christ is light.
Lofton is not wrong because we can't argue against his quoting Church teaching, he is wrong because he uses dark backgrounds......lol
@@dan_m7774
Lofton is orthodox, he will attack the Catholic church. Because there is not much interest in Orthodox congregations in the world
@@Hellenback137 Yet Zen couldn't refute him, just insults were given. Lofton again showed church teaching.
@@dan_m7774
Because you share Lofton's religion 😂
@@MarsSTG You I see act like Zen and make up stuff... 😂
I can not understand what is going on in Vatican, and it is not good art on top that, and how swiftly they act when they don't like someone but not at all on horrible stuff like abusing children and promoting homosexuality don't act or even promoting these people
Lofton was quite cruel and judgmental regarding Cardinal Zen, last January
Zen used personal insults, to Lofton supplying Church documents showing Zen's error.
@@dan_m7774The Cardinal is in error?
I thought Zen replied with great restraint and a splendid sense of humour.
@@soniavadnjal7553Yes
@@DrGAshendenThe use of personal insults shows Zen lack of constraint.
Treason of Christology 👹
34:25 How wonderful you threw your family on the altar of self. How wonderful you sacrificed you wife and children. How wonderful you can now fully understand abortion.
Having watched Michael Lofton on many occasions, I can understand some people's dislike of his style, though 'his style' isn't always consistent and it's the contents of his arguments which should be assessed. In that light, having also watched his response to retired Cardinal Zen, i can confidently state that Michael was right again, unlike Zen whose response did not deal with the merits of Michael's arguments but was rather an ad-hominem attack. I get the feeling that it's the fact that Michael is right more often than not that rubs people up the wrong way.
I wish I could chair a discussion, in all charity, between Gavin, Michael and Taylor in order to clear the air and get some facts straight (which could be published on you tube if all parties agreed after reviewing such a meeting). I believe Catholics should be seeking harmony rather than strife and that such a meeting would benefit all.
God bless,
V
Gavin and Michael are not on the same intellectual and moral plane- there is no dialogue there silly person
I question if that was a letter from Cardinal Zen at all. Until and unless credible 3rd party verification surfaces, I'll consider it to be click bait. Sorry.
It’s on his personal website!!
Michael Lofton majors on the authority of magisterial teaching. Sign me up
I always admired cardinal zen and him standing to Chinese but boy was I sickened by his response to lofton. If lofton was wrong, cdl Zen would have expertly put him down but he actually attacked the man not the argument. I didn’t expect this from someone as highly regarded as him or a man of his age
I would have liked to see cdl zen defend that he accused the holy father of heresy but he didn’t- which concerned me
It was not “top notch” it was something you’d expect in a school yard - cheering this on speaks volumes about how unhealthy the church today brought to you by the catholic laity
It is funny how you two Loftonites post in tandam, hmmmmmmmm you were sickened?
@@cityoftruth9808 oh I’m sure this was right down your street and gave you a tingle alright bud, but thankfully my mind doesn’t operate in the dregs like yours
Cardinal Zen was surprisingly very personally insulting to Michael Lofton who himself is not that way at all. You three seemed to approve of this and your response was laughter. That speaks volumes.
My sentiments too, not interested in your personal attacks you’re not doing the church any favours
Michael Lofton's worldly arrogance eventually led me to unsubscribe.
C Zen just had to be joking there! Gavend he no reason nor theology cf to Lofton. So GA's on a point of principle was in fact fair going against C Zen! It was him that was far from charitable and showed so little humility!😊
I also find it surprising that the Cardinal should speak in that way. Seems out of character.
Yes, we laughed. We have a sense of humour. Lofton is a bit bombastic. In my case, what caused the laughter is the incongruity between zen’s image and the words he chose to use.
I thought he was very restrained . I also think there are cultural issues and interpreting the language you used.
I think you’d rather depends on how you laugh on These occasions.
We enjoy laughing in this channel.
Avoid us if that’s offensive.
Join us if it isn’t.
Still trying to find an intelligent respone to the Lofton vs. Zen issue......so, far, its all just name-calling. Is this really the level of Catholic commentary now?
Regarding rupnik's work. I do agree in some measure with Dr Gavin's sentiments on the matter, but would direct people's attention to some points. The mosaics are not rupnik's work alone, but a collaborative effort by the members of the art studio Centro Aletti in Rome. Another point is that the works are a modern take on the 7th century Byzantine mosaics, the most famous being those of Ravenna in Italy, home to the royal court at one time. The mosaics are far from being "pretty" or beautiful, especially those of the Emperor Justinian and his wife Theodora. There you see the huge dark-rimmed eyes ... Well, they're almost ugly. But they are works of art, part of the architecture. As for these modern examples from the Centro Aletti not being very popular with many faithful, you need to know that some of the most popular paintings today, which fetch the highest prices, were done by the French Impressionists (laughed at and abused by their own contemporaries), Van Gogh, (who never sold a painting in his lifetime), and other "moderns", the Cubists, Expressionists etc. Elizabeth Lev, art teacher and historian, has suggested we wait a few centuries, the art work might be looked at differently.
Thank you for the elaboration of the factual background.
I think the association with him will be too problematic an element to be overlooked.
NO HE DIDN'T .. Stop exaggerating
Who didn’t what?
Did the Pope actually pull the Papal ring away from Cardinal Pell, or are you conflating this with the incident in the audience hall when a woman yanked at the Pope’s arm as he was walking past and she clearly jolted the Popes balance and likely set off his known sciatic nerve pain??
The Pope has done it repeatedly. There’s plenty of video showing this
x.com/catholicizm1/status/1808475387220922851?s=46&t=BGF4bstCtnXH0XBDOpaqew
@@catholicunscripted thanks for the link
Pope Francis doesn’t like those kinds of displays. He done this with even other cardinals and even pilgrims, to a point where his accused of sexism and racism.
If you read the comments from Cardinal Zen, he cited zero Catholic teachings. Cdl. Zen is a retired Cardinal and no longer has any authority to teach. This is Catholic Law. Without a Flock, you are no longer a teacher to bind our conscience. Michael is a professor at a Catholic University who teaches the Magisterium. Michael made a response video and he proved his case by demonstrating Catholic Law. The question is…. Did you watch the response? If not, I suggest you watch to correct yourself. God bless the Holy Father, all the Holy Servants, and the faithful.🙏🙏🙏
sgt. If I could have a few years with you to dissect this single comment and you were able to acquire the literacy arts of grammar and logic to see the true realities to which your words point, you might, just might with the aid of grace, come to see what a dunce you have become under the tutelage of Michael Lofton. Like in all other cases, Cardinal Zen and Michael Lofton are not on the same level, it is dangerous for you to bark up at the Cardinal behind your dunce of a master. One true statement you make, and only one, "God bless the Holy Father, all the Holy Servants, and the faithful!"
That's not how the teaching authority of a bishop works. I realize that that's the line Lofton's been using to justify his actions, but teaching authority is intrinsic to the sacrament of Ordination. It can be governed partially by human (church) law but never fully superceded. Lofton is being dumb. Don't listen to him.
@@anzot6903exactly right- the illogical logic of Lofton is a one of the great jokes he plays on the Midwits who buy his Marlarkey- what a charlatan and sophist who twists words and projects his tormented ideas on to his betters
"Michael made a response video and he proved his case by demonstrating Catholic Law." Just like the Jews did to Jesus? Words mean nothing without works. Cardinal Zen has the Holy Spirit. Perhaps you should read St. John Vianney regarding those who have the Holy Spirit vs. those who do not.
@@johnf2023 his response video was a joke that could only fool a fool
Michael Lofton seems to go to the sources. That's what I like about him. And if he has changed, that's good. As St John Henry Newmann said, if you want to be a saint, you have to change often.
Lofton seems arrogant and uncharitable
@@michellemcdermott2026 So a public ad hominem attack by Cardinal Zen toward Lofton is charitable?
And Mr Ashenden himself has changed his mind…
Everyone has a different journey, it would seem . So, does that mean that according to Mr ashenden’s mates here, one step is the limit?
Heaven help us if we might err more than once.
I do not like Lofton. I go to the TLM. I stopped watching AB when they went with the mockery route, and to see you two indulge in mocking of appearance is saddening. Spiritual immaturity.
Humanisation is for each in our being as identity and acting in a role as a member of a family to act in their roles as a helper of families.
Pope Francis approving the address at the UNO of his President of his Council for the Family, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, on 15 May 2014 and Pope Paul V1's Commission on Population and the UNO FAO approving Colin Clark's advice to them in 1964 has the Pope in his role identity exercising an absolute power of his authorisations in the case of Pope Francis because as a consecrated celibate married by vows to man in Christ he was hence recognising qualitatively equal with inseparable in the cases of Vatican state Cardinal Becciu + 9 charity donations and the Italian Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill on 17 June 2021.
But this was in the case of Pope Paul V1 and the UNO FAO as not a consecrated celibate married as only recognising "inseparable" (HV, 1968, 12).
Sorry Gavin but your solution to the mussleman problem will fall foul of the incoming islamophobia law which will put you in prison.
Which we have foreseen for some time now.
This is is so silly. The blog post he wrote looked like it was written by a 12 year-old. A Cardinal slinging insults about appearance? Then, commenting on tattoos? So, we just never let people live down their pasts?
Then, worst of all, his ecclesiology was embarrassingly wrong. Even if Fernandez wrote the documents, the pope approved them. They are magisterial. I mean, a whole council (Second Constantinople) was written by Emperor Justinian and his aides and then confirmed by Pope Vigilius, who wasn’t even at the council, and, in fact, sent a letter forbidding the council from continuing without him. Well, it went ahead and then he affirmed the documents! Do you reject that council, too, based on Zen’s attack on Fernandez and the documents the pope approved?
You people are so eager to want to be able to be papal dissenters without someone pointing out your error that you get behind any retired bishop or cardinal who says what you want to hear.
The Church is where the successor of Peter is, not where a retired cardinal is. Deal with it. If you can’t, then admit you are no longer in communion with Christ’s Church. You can’t call yourself Catholic while siding with retired cardinals over the Holy Father. That is Protestant, through and through.
I think you’re starting with your conclusion and then looking for evidence to justify it.
At the same time, I didn’t think you’re taking into account the promotion of the new ‘Francis Magisterium’ as Fernandez puts it. And the Implications that flow from it. from it.
@@DrGAshenden it doesn’t matter. Francis is the pope. You are not. Cardinal Zen is not.
To be a Catholic is to be in communion with the successor of Peter. Read Donum Veritatis and Vatican I, two documents this channel is consistently in violation of. This evil suspicion and dissent has to stop. It is grace and not Catholic. Just accept it. If you are right, you are saying the Church can defect, and you are saying the pope can teach heresy, two things that long-standing Tradition have said cannot be. So, you are saying the Church is not Christ’s Church, whether you realize it or not.
I grow so tired of this. Either trust in Christ’s promise and in the protection of the Holy Spirit over the successor of Peter or admit you don’t and openly be the Protestant you are acting as every time you post a video.
It’s not Catholic simply to hold to all previous teachings and then deny anything taught by the current pope because you decide it isn’t right. That is what Luther did. You may pray the rosary and attend traditional mass, but if you dissent from the papal magisterium, you are not in communion.
And, throwing around conspiratorial sounding quotes is the definition of evil suspicion. You see only the worst in what the pope and his DDF head say.
And, finally, all of the other conspiratorial predictions people like those on this channel have never come true. Women deacons, women priests, gay marriage, re-marriage after divorce, etc. None of these things have happened in the more than 10 years we have heard that it will. Will Pope Francis suddenly do it on his deathbed? Is that your suspicion? Even though he has repeated perennial teachings in his documents and most recently on 60 Minutes, for crying out loud?
Suddenly, he will just do all those things that dissenters keep telling us are coming? Is that the theory?
@@DrGAshenden and, seriously? I am the one starting with a conclusion and finding evidence? You all start with the conclusion that Pope Francis is tearing down the Church and then just dig and dig for evidence, no matter how circumstantial or scant. It is gross.
I simply follow the Magisterium of the Church Christ established. That is all. And I refuse to deny Him.
I like that you're copying and pasting your comment on every negative Lofton video. It's cute.
@@anzot6903 it’s cute? Can you be more condescending? I like that you are clicking on every anti-Michael Lofton video because it makes you feel good to be among papal dissenters. Two can play at that game.
I am simply making the same argument because I believe in it…but I am certainly not copying and pasting. So, you have lied about me.
Most Catholic UA-cam shows rip my Catholic faith and the leader of my Church nonstop. Michael Lofton actually reads and analyzes every major document coming out of the Vatican. While I don't always agree with him, most of the time he shows me things that I had completely overlooked in my not so thorough analysis.
I very much enjoy this program, but make no mistake. The three of you are dissenting Catholics.
Very glad your faith is deepening - from whichever source. I think we will own the description of dissent. But not from Catholicism; only from the perversion of Catholicism. The church suffers from this from time to time, butGod put it right.
You are a good student of Lofton
How can that man say that it was really funny that Cardinal Zen mocked Michael Lofton. This person speaking on this video finds bullying funny. Thats just weird and mean.
I think he says it because it was hilarious 😂
You have the millennial feeble and effeminate sensibility the Cardinal is a man
Not sure why these folk decided to call their channel Catholic Unscripted, this content is anti-Catholic. Their theology alone is, CLEARLY, not Catholic, it's pointedly Protestant, more akin to Anglicanism, Lutheranism, or schismatic Eastern Orthodox. As for Zen's response, all he did was make personal attacks, nothing on the substance because he must know he's in clear violation of his vows. All these dissenting Cardinals are, in fact, and they have no magisterial authority per se, unless they're accompanied with the college of bishops, NONE of which coincide with him. Add to this, they are in clear violation of the 6th & 7th Ecumenical councils, as well as Vatican I. So, overall, this program is just pathetic and misleading, and no faithful Catholic should be agreeing with this. Sad, really.
It is truly scary to witness how dimwitted Lofton's audience is. For all the talk of "nuance" and "distinction" you braying donkeys are pretty blunt.
@@cityoftruth9808Ad hominem
What a disgrace for Cardinal Zen to go as low as ad hominem attack, and his persistence in falsely accusing Pope Francis. Pray for Cardinal Zen to go to confession or else if he's holding the Eucharist and distributing it to church attendees, it will be unworthy since he has committed sin of libel, publicly. He has gone downhill and he needs lots of prayer. Pray for Cardinal Zen that he may repent and stay true to the Church and the vows of obedience he proclaimed when he was ordained a priest.
God bless Cardinal Zen. He is excellent.
Lofton is a sophist
Exactly! Who is this Cd. Zen guy to question Michael Lofton? He needs to REPENT!!
An elderly cardinal with a distinguished past throwing ad hominem attacks at Michael Lofton for having tattoos and a 'weak beard' is really beneath his esteemed office. The claim he knows less than catechumens about the magisterium is hilariously bad as Michael is wiring a phd dissertation on that very issue as well as lectures on it at CPU. Your support for him seems to be based on him being on your side in disliking Pope Francis and Fiducia Supplicans.
@@pmagrin you're comparing writing a dissertation and teaching at a school for a few weeks to being a cardinal for decades. You have literally no sense of proportion. It's why you think you can attack a Cardinal while a Cardinal cannot disagree with the Pope. It's literally insane.
is this a gossip chanel?
Are you looking for one?
Check us out.
Wrong place I’m afraid.
@@DrGAshenden How do you define gossip?
Utter Rubish, and you know it. Loften has refuted the reply line by line.
Lofton is an arrogant buffoon
You trust someone who has bounced around denominations for years, who has flip flopped on everything and talks as if he knows everything, more than a Cardinal, a successor of the Apostles. I think you should relax a bit and stop being so tribal, and actually think.
@@VACatholic Also Card Zen has been persecuted for the Faith
@@VACatholic He's teaching at a Catholic Polytechnic, so your point again?
@@CatholicSaintsAndAngelsAnd what is the current standard of Catholic education these days?
I find it gaslighting to just say a criticism and not at least explain the basis for Michael Lofton’s beliefs.
Are you afraid of the Profession of Faith? Are you afraid of Donum Veritalis? It seems there is an issue here when you do not show these people this evidence against your opinions. The guy on the left had good words about being charitable, but is it being charitable in condemning Michael Lofton’s views without addressing the evidence he prevents? He presented a LOT of evidence against Cardinal Zen, which shows he is following the heresy of conciliarism and you don’t address one thing. That is gaslighting and dishonest.
I don’t think we share the same definitions of either gaslighting or honesty.
We are happy to live with the difference.
Cardinal Zen's response, if I read it right, was half-insulting Lofton's appearance and credentials, half-responding by saying he wasn't going to spend time responding.
Both barrels of blanks, maybe.
Zen got mad being called out for his bad behavior
@@dan_m7774 Being Called out by who.. Big Head, Little Beard man??
@@sergesavard636 Like Zen you offer insults, lofton quotes church teaching.
@@sergesavard636 The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. Cardinal Zen is in error, and he couldn't respond with humility by accepting Lofton's evidence so he ended up with an ad hominem attack.
@@CatholicSaintsAndAngels it’s interesting to have your take on it, but I didn’t see it that way at all. Then answered the theological principle and then threw in a joke. I thought it was a rather fetching combination. and I thought he was very restrained with a joke given Lofton’s fairly acrimonious approach.
Referencing that Alexander T fellow shows you are listening to the wrong people, Mr Ashenden. Taylor Marshall paid for that guy to do that Tiber stunt with Our Lady of the Amazon . If you still think that ceremony in the Vatican gardens was some sort of pagan ‘ Pachamama ‘ worship event- you are not researching deeply enough from a range of legitimate sources. Taylor Marshall is a grifter and pretty much a schismatic now. Get a clue - please!
Virginia, I had the pleasure of interviewing Alexander T on the Catholic Herald podcast. I loved what he did. I couldn’t care less about who paid for his plane ticket.
I see that you don’t like Taylor Marshall - never mind. But if you can’t see the virtue of outrage against blasphemy, you really won’t like what we stand for. I suspect we’re unlikely to either persuade you or please you. Never mind. So glad you looked in.
@@DrGAshenden try this article from the website ‘Where Peter Is’ with Mike Lewis and Pedro Gabriel covering what the mis- named ‘Pachamama’ statues actually represented to the Catholic people of the Amazon who attended that service in The Vatican gardens . I tried posting a link but then my comment disappeared.: “Was that Paganism in the Vatican?
BY MIKE LEWIS · JULY 4, 2020.”
Mike Lewis also mentions another Michael Lofton video with : ‘ Father Deacon Anthony Dragani, an Eastern Catholic deacon and professor of Religious Studies at Mount Aloysius College in Cresson, Pennsylvania, to join him on his Reason & Theology podcast to break down the video of the much-maligned prayer service.’ Again, no link to post successfully, but it should be easy enough to search on UA-cam. See if you can bear to give it a go .
If nothing else, Mr Ashenden and Company, consider the fact that different cultures do represent Our Lady in ways that reflect their ethnicity and culture, such as Our Lady of Guadalupe and Our Lady of Akita.
A Cardinal insulting someones appearance instead of the actual substance of the argument, just indicates he knows Lofton was correct.
Because you are in the same school as Lofton from the Orthodox 😂
@@MarsSTG I am not Orthodox, you are making a ridiculous statement
@@dan_m7774
The Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus Christ. you agree ?
That is a really weird thing to say, you're acting like he hasn't said other things. And the idea that you're judging a Cardinal of the Catholic Church like this? Do you realize what you're saying? You're taking a layman who's changed religions more often than some have changed pants, and you're choosing his interpretation over a persecuted Cardinal. I think you need to get out of your bubble and get some perspective. I know Lofton bans anyone who disagrees with him, but understand that he's not the Pope.
@@VACatholic
Your comments show you are holier than zen cardinals 😂
Lofton's content all attacked Catholicism, because Lofton was looking for congregations for the Orthodox Church 😂😂
Card. Zen HAD uncharitable and teenager like responses, very un christian like. Plus Zen was flat out wrong.
Two very strange assessments. I am in shock at the kind of mental gymnastics it takes to draw your conclusions, I will call it willful illiteracy, like "other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
@@cityoftruth9808 in what christian world does Zens comments represent sound charitable speach? Stop coping hard by using hateful speech against others. If you think Zen as not uncharitable your mind is darkened by your coping.
@@evannyakabuski How is it you assess I use "hateful speech?" What on earth have I said that is hateful? And what a Loftonite type conclusion, your response to an authentic and accurate assessment of your mischaracterization of the good Cardinal is I am "coping"? Evanny, look again at what the Cardinal Zen said without the assumption that Lofton is "on the right side of history" and you may come to see a charitable rebuke that has the potential to help Michael and all those in his audience who have trouble grasping the truth of things, much like yourself. Listen to the Cardinal over Michael Lofton, that is the right order of things and don't let the tail of your opinion wag the dog of truth.
@@cityoftruth9808 lets honesty be the judge. Clearly Zen was uncharitable. You also seem to need to dive into uncharitable speach to make arguments.
@@cityoftruth9808 how about you listen to the Pope some more, talking about right order.... Zen has very bad theology about Pope Francis.
You are all dissenting schismatics
Zen is all about division. How much more he will be held in judgement for being against the seat of Peter. A shepherd who unwisely attacks the head shepherd who has divine guidance over Zen.
He was persecuted for the faith. God bless good Cardinal Zen
@@michellemcdermott2026 So were the Jews, doesn't mean they get it right.
Give me a break, what did Jesus say, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword" Matthew 10:34. In this passage, Jesus is warning his followers that being faithful to the gospel will cause divisions within society and families.
Read your Bible, instead spreading misinformation!
@@holymarymotherofgodprayfor7388 Division between those who are faithful to the Church and those who are embracing secular sources. The Pope has divine protection because of being in the seat of Peter. A bishop has no such protection.
@@dan_m7774 oh look a Lofton fan boy, Big head, little beard.. .Lofton has been Catholic for about 20 minutes and he thinks he is Dr. of the Church
Zen was showed to be wrong, Lofton easily showed his mistakes
It turns out that you are of the orthodox religion, your comment history is visible on your account
😂😂😂
Lofton only showed his own awful arrogant attitude. God bless the good faithful Cardinal Zen who suffered for Jesus
@@michellemcdermott2026
The account @dan_m7774 is orthodox, in the same vein as Lofton 😂
@@michellemcdermott2026 No he held up church teaching and it was Zen who was reduced to making personal attacks.
Big Head, Little beard,. bloated stomach
Lofton is pretty well balanced unlike these jokers.
Glad you appreciate
Our sense of humour.
Though we probably have understanding of what balance means. I’m sure he would appreciate the fact that you enjoy his contributions