How to Play Behind The Beat (no-bs examples for bassists & drummers)
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- In today’s new video Ian Allison and drummer Steve Goold walk you through some ideas and exercises that will help level up your sense of playing ‘in the pocket’. To a beginner, this concept might have you scratching your head, but how many experienced bass players really know what it means?
In this lesson you’re going to learn:
What it means to play in the pocket.
How it works.
How to play ahead of the beat.
How to play behind.
Why every audience loves a back beat.
And much more!
As always, see you in the shed…
Scott :)
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![He told me how to Find the Pocket with ANY Band [ft. Tim Pierce]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/walos4a-6Yw/mqdefault.jpg)
Ian is a great addition to the team, one of the best teachers you’ve had
I completely agree! He's great!
YES
His explanations are simple and make sense to everyone :)
Agreed. Thorough explanations & contagious enthusiasm make for a great teacher.
100%
Great to hear bass player & drummer discussing this type of thing. Really informative
Yeah, this was very interesting. Most of this goes unsaid between drummer and bassist but breaking it down makes you think about it and see how you can improve or just even be more aware of what is going down.
I once tried to discuss playing around with the beat with the band's (not mine! I wanted him fired) drummer.
I was explaining it in English, but the drummer was listening in Neanderthal.
Without communication the marriage ended up in divorce...I left.
@@pd4165 welcome to drummers. Even the Muppets understood this concept.
One of the most valuable lessons in music and something understood by very, very few players or producers. This is another example that explains why quantizing sucks the life out of so many recordings. VERY WELL DONE GUYS!
Yes! Also how bands would organically speed up or slow down in certain parts of a song unconsciously, to match the energy of the section.
It didn't take me long to learn to hate the quantize function in my DAW for this very reason. Nothing else can wreck a really cool groove with one little click of a mouse button quite like it.
I mean, start off with quantizing, but couldn't digital tools give you the ability to move the drums or bass behind the beat exactly the way that sounds the best?
@@trevorprice2490this is exactly what I do. Midi latency makes it hard to nail the timing so I quantize and fix my feel afterwards. Tools aren't good or bad it's just how you use them
I've heard so many people talk about feel, or playing behind the beat. This is the absolute best explanation I've come across. You made it make sense.
You have no idea.. read my comment above - not cos of me, but of John Paul Jones my man 😉 This is load of ... and you gotta be able to play it, thats it
@@tomasvanecek8626 yeah man I'll just scroll through the other 450+ comments until I find whatever it is you're talking about
@@perpetualgrimace Well it it is right at the top of the comments now.. like 2 hrs ago
@@tomasvanecek8626it's at the top of the comments ONLY FOR YOU, because that's how UA-cam works. The rest of us have no idea what you are rambling on about.
@@Gruuvin1 Yeah, the YT shadow banning for dissenting voices.. how gh3y 😘.. lets see, I repost the important part again:
Messing playing behind the beat with just slowing down, my gosh.... the drummer has to play also behind, kick and snare ... you both can BE behind... but keeping the time, at the same time, with hihat or ride... understand ? Bit difficult for the drummer... but both of you are so so wrong here..
JP Jones and Bonham often stretched it .. they even competed how far behind they can get,
see it here, 11:52 from JPJ himself : "we had a contest.. how far can you go.."
12:34 - "show us an example..."
ua-cam.com/video/qaa1axJ63Qg/v-deo.html
Boys.. get your act together :)
What you are describing at around 7:20, re being a tad behind to let the drum transients through first is something that is often simulated in production vis a vis sidechaining a compressor on the bass track that is triggered by the kick. The effect is to lower the volume of the bass at the instant of the kick transient and then let the bass volume bloom back up as the compressor releases.
I really enjoyed this video and have shared it with a few friends who have asked me to explain 'the pocket' and playing behind or on top. Thanks!
That would probably remove some mud from my mixes. I'll have to give it a shot sometime.
This is interesting that you can do this in the effects chain, either during or post. It also makes me appreciate what musicians were capable of before recording technology developed.
Ian is just great, it’s obvious that he’s an absolut genius on bass, still he breaks down the content in simple empathic explanations. always aware of the viewer/student.
I've struggled with this concept. Now I think I get it. When he said it's like my note (bass) grows out of your note (drums). Light bulb moment.
This is the best discussion I've ever heard on the nuances of feel or groove in contemporary music.
Love Ian's energy and ability to articulate technique. Adding Steve makes it better because of the drummer's perspective, but also because the 2 have a conversation. And we get to watch.
That bass is beautiful.
I've seen one in a store like this and the thin line around the pick guard was red, not black as it usually is. Looked so cool!
Sounds fantastic too
Fender calls that finish "antigua"
Love this actual discussion between a drummer and bass player. A lot of drummers I played with who had the “there’s only one way to groove, I know it and you don’t” attitude, which basically kills music, in my opinion. I played with a lot more drummers who didn’t need to say anything; 4 bars in and we both knew what’s up. Play with the musicians on stage, not some weird ideal.
This is great. No one ever discusses this topic. It effects the feel and sound of the band So much. Especially if someone is on top of the beat and pushing things ahead. I play with a ton of drummers who always speed up by the end of the song and you can’t pull them back. Also big band horns are always doing big hits on the back side of the beat. It just feels right.
One of my favorite funk bands, Vulfpeck, actually has its own compressor program that it runs over Joe Dart's bass which (in addition to elevating his already amazing tone to a whole other level) also has the same effect you talk about in this video of making his notes "grow" out of the drum notes. You can hear this very well in Dean Town (obviously most of the work and tone is in Joe's fingers but I just thought it was an interesting thing to share)
As far as I know, in terms sound design with compressors, the amount you can shape the transients by playing with the attack parameter is in the milliseconds. I’m pretty sure what you refer to as Joe’s notes growing out of the drums is 99% to his credit as a great player. I might be wrong of course and the compressor IS the secret sauce
@@therealkpatVulf Compressor is one of the integral parts to Joe's iconic sound. Just like Cory uses a compressor - it's not to compensate for any lack of playing ability, it just makes the transients hit harder and more consistent. The "growing out" is also because of the compressor's relatively long, squishy release time.
@@evieatarax I mean, obviously, in the studio things can and will be tweaked and tightened here and there. With compression (side chaining helping that "growing" effect) or just digital editing of individual notes to make them sit EXACTLY where everyone wants them. I am not saying Vulfpack can't play real tight in a live situation, but a commercial recording is going to tweak all of those notes (and if people say otherwise, they're lying)
SO True ! I been playing bass since 1975 and out of all the things anyone ever showed me that improved my bass playing was exactly that ! Once I noticed this in the tunes I was learning, I was hooked! I found the behind the sceen sercret. I also noiticed how much it impacts the sound and feel of the tune. Bands and other musicians started noticing the difference in my playing and started calling me more for gigs.
Even today, If I go listen to a band and the players, I notice how many bass players just Hit the bass from begining to end and never notice what they can do to improve that little thing.
Thanks for sharing that. It was well worth it.
Thanks for checking out the video! Glad you enjoyed it 🤘🏻
Excellent discussion. Like Flea said, "put the bass note in the middle of the drum beat". Easy to say. Years of work to hear and implement. Real value info right here. Thanks guys.
Everything about this video is confusing. The bassist looks like Scott, but the drummer sounds like Scott with American accent.
😂
Scott obviously has more personalities than one. I wonder how does it look like Scott the guitarist, Scott the vocalist, or Scott the dancer....
It's the eyes .. I can tell it wasent them
@@adamkrayevsky4563 scott the dancer 😂 oh boy im gonna have some weird dreams tonight! 😂
Kind of reminds me of the Nolly playthrough, Scott playing some heavy chugs haha
Ian is a great guy to step in for ya, Scott. He has the same very amiable personality and passion not only for the bass, but also for sharing what he know as you do. I really like him and look forward to more videos. You,ve got a winner here. I must say that the same goes for the drummer. You seem to pick your folks very carefully and with good success. Keep it up, buddy!. Love it!
I'd like to see a video with Ian, Scott, and Nolly, for the ultimate confusing video of 3 great bass players who look alike...
Yeah, I'm digging the American Scott clone!
Rick Beato has been talking about this for years on his UA-cam channel. It allows both the punch of the Bass Drum and the tone of the bass the breath alittle.
As a rhythmically challenged guitarist I'm just happy to be somewhere close to the beat.😂
Thanks for the demonstration guys. Gave me something to shoot for.
Hey me and you are the same 😂😂😂my timing sucks.
So what does the guitarist do when the bassist drummer start playing around the beat/
@@ricomajestic I think the takeaway here is everyone should aim for the middle and let the rest come naturally. Practice with the metronome and try to make the click disappear. Do that, and you'll be able to hang with the rhythm section fine.
I could absolutely listen to Ian and Steve talk and jam all day!
after I got the basics of playing the bass down, these concepts were exactly what I spent years working on so that they would be deliberate and second nature. Such an important aspect of your role as a bass player and rhythm section. Awesome video and well explained!
The Scott body-double illusion is insane, hahahaha. And I can't believe you brought up Matt Chamberlain. I was thinking about him when you were having the discussion about the "tendency." Matt Chamberlain has had that magic feel since he was a kid at NTSU. Everything felt magic when he played. It wasn't anything that you could put your finger on. I called it the Matt Chamberlain Elasto-Groove. It was definitely a thing. I remember him pecking out a groove on that first Alesis drum machine, and he could make a one-sample drum machine groove the same way with that particular timing of his.
I really enjoy these two working together. Having a knowledgeable drummer talk about they're part is so helpful.
This was fantastic! They don’t talk about this in music school. I think it’s just expected that people know it.
Im a member and I watched this course. I loved it. When I was done I texted a drummer friend of mine. The next week we sat down with a beer and watched it together. Really great stuff!
Also we want more Ian!
Cheers James!
I like how the few notes the guy played felt more meaningful than all I'll probably ever be able to achieve with my bass
Don’t say that bro
Keep practicing
His playing is really meaningful but there’s no reason yours can’t be.
If you put in the time and get after it, there’s nothing that can stop you. :)
Excellent explanation of playing behind. Many people aren't sure what it means to play behind. Most important is what he said to aim for center and know where that's at, then play behind consistently.
this has got to be the best course I've seen from this channel. What these guys are teaching me makes me want to join just to watch this course
I ended up buying a lifetime subscription. It’s honestly worth trying monthly at least.
Do it! If you can afford it, go for it. So much great stuff in SBL. These two are particularly magnificent. So articulate and so practical.
Is there any way these two can just broadcast their conversations 24/7 and the rest of us can just sit back, learn, and send them some pizza and drinks to keep them alive?
I'm super into this idea :)
Hahahaha I'm in
Piano/keys player here. This was brilliant. Clear, insightful and practical. Bravo!
As a guitarist, I love this channel. It really helps me appreciate the teamwork required for a good band. I've always thought of the pocket as more of an unconscious feel, I was just playing what I thought sounded good. I remember being in a two guitar band, and I would always be a little behind the other guy. I just liked the groove!
Thanks for the love, fellow musician! Groove and teamwork are indeed essential in any band, and it's great that you appreciate the subtleties of the pocket. Keep jamming and grooving! 🙌🏻🧡🔥
Also, playing *through* the string with finger technique helps you "play behind" much better I find. Also great to hear a drummer talk about this, few drummers do and us bassists really want the conversation.
I have a VERY heavy hand. I play through the string to say the least. Have, personally, found my heavy handed style makes it sound like shit when im even slightly behind the beat. A gentle touch makes the bass note swell, a heavy hand is near percussive. I have found I need to push the beat, if anything, to make sure my strikes do not create a jarring double percussive effect. So, with all due respect, I would disagree. A gentle touch lends itself much better to playing behind the beat imo and ime.
And yea, The comment in the above vid IS spot on. I do NOT follow my drummers, I drive them. Have not, until this vid, really considered that might be obnoxious as hell to them. None have yet complained, but it is very subtle so they may not even be aware I'm doing it.
I always thought that way, I am very happy to see it well explained. I played an entire season of the musical "We will rock you" with that mentality. The explanations about the transients and the muffling, very good.
Two powerhouses in one video, unreal! Golden stuff you guys are putting out here. CLASS IS IN SESSION!
This video is a masterpiece demonstration around this conversation, the best resource I've found for demonstrating the conversation and the physical approach to students - thank you both for this wonderful educational resource - Wish I'd had it 10 years ago!
This is terrific.
Someone told me years ago that you find your feel during the songs
Thanks for the lesson guys
Ian has a great personality on camera, as if he is a buddy hanging out. Great playing here too guys. Excellent video.
Yeeeessss, this is great!! Once again: Ian Martin Allison for the WIN!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
That's one I have been waiting for for a veeeeery long time. One magic moment in a fill is to start behind and then accelerate to get on top, and finally finish slightly behind.
Chad Smith does that in one fill to If you have to Ask (live version)
Hi. About a decade ago, I was in a band that used to get the listeners into a frenzy during live gigs. Me and the drummer (who was a major in composing at musical college) analyzed that the deal was him trying to play as "early" as possible, without "speeding up" and my job, as the bassist, was to try to beat him constantly. That´s basically the opposite of what You´re demonstrating in this video, but it worked very well (as it did for the Police).
Greeting from Sweden!
I think it was more likely the music that got people going rather than the timing. A lot of punk bands could barely play and could barely keep time yet the crowds went crazy.
I really appreciate the insight from this video. I've tried explaining to some of my own bass students what it means to play behind the beat and this gives me a much clearer way of describing that. Thanks!
I love this presentation! I've tried, unsuccessfully, to explain playing behind the beat to a few non-musician friends and generally gotten a blank stare in response. Now I'm going to send a couple of them a link to this video and see what happens :-). Thanks for this.
I loved everything about this conversation
Minute 7:30 is pure gold. Is the perfect example for get timing of a lot of blues songs. For me there are a perfect example: Freddie King - Same old blues. If you pay attention the bass and the kick drum sounds like Ian are saying. Masterclass
First saw Steve (drums) 17 years ago…I knew he’d be an all star American drummer…so good
Ian rocks! Great addition.
This is pure gold for every musician. PERIOD!
guitar here. i'm a backline fanatic. mystified by it after 50 years of playing in front. great vid.
This is great! Ive been waiting for someone to talk about this phenomenon. There are so many lessons about notes, modes and patterns, but not much about feel. Thanks for a great lesson.
One of the top 2 or 3 teaching vids you've put out, Scott! Thanks to these guys.
The drummer is an awesome teacher!
One of the best
Have to agree and add weight to the other comments: great format, great easy-to-understand and helpful tips, and also simply enjoyed the conversation. Well done and thanks!
Love this. Yeah, I found the conversation awkward either from ego or fear of overthinking it and not just playing together a lot and having it all just meld.
Absolutely, sometimes it's about that natural flow and chemistry in the music that comes from playing together. Overthinking can sometimes get in the way of the groove. Keep it groovy! 🎶🤘
I like the way a blues drummer I used to play with here in Chicago described it. He called it a "flat tire". You've got to get that "flat tire" feel.
When I was a teenager, I read a guitar magazine interview where the interviewee was talking about how they like the bass Behind The Beat.
I spent years wondering if he meant behind as in after, or supporting, but my first interpretation was a timing difference. I'm not sure if I ever play behind the beat, but I do sometimes play in a sort of back-time where I'll call attention to a melody or line by not falling on the beat. I guess that would be behind.
This makes me think of BBE Sonic Maximizers and how they offset the mids by a bit to make them more audible among the bass frequencies.
Absolutely sick! Things I’ve always wondered about but never had guts to broach or, coming from my amateur background, heard anyone else talk about. At all, never mind at this level. Cheers guys!
as someone who learns by example, this is one of the best videos i've ever seen. thank you thank you
Playing behind is best played when the groove is locked in. Most heard in R&B, as the drummer and bass player begin to add space between their notes playing around the groove.
The bass and drums need to work as a team, so having a lesson with both makes total sense. I never know if Ian or Scott are doing the videos from the thumbnails, but I am sure I'll be learning something useful!
Just brilliant! These two are among the best tutors on the SBL roster, I hope they do a heap more of these videos. Yes, and the Scott D/Ian A Inception thing is a freak-out, but I love it!
Very cool, would like this to be a regular series!
Absolutely love Ian and Steve. I learn something every time.
Such a great lesson! Yes, the key is to really get dead on first and then grow from there. I love the way these two keep the conversation going, as it's not so much a lecture as it is a sharing of ideas from their perspectives and as if they were involving us as viewers in their discussion. No talking down to or dumbing it down for anyone either...it's purely accessible.
A great drummer will always hit the snare a little behind the beat like an inverted grace note. This is KEY. This keeps YOU in the pocket and NOT RUSHING and the rest of the band as well.
Sometimes I even got so deliberate and aggressive with it when a band would rush that they HAVE to go with me.
Not necessarily bass, but I’m fascinated with rhythm and feel, and I’ve been sort of studying a lot of these young rappers nowadays (I know I know just hear me out), and there’s something fascinating about the way they seem to flow VERY AHEAD of the beat. At first it seemed so amateur- like they didn’t have good flow- but I’m starting to appreciate that it’s for effect. It gives the track a fun, live, energetic motion. It makes the beat feel so janky in a cool funky way.
A very friendly video. A wanted topic disussed in a open, clear way. Done with a wonderful camera in a very pro arrangemen.
Your gut is correct. That’s why when producers were able to (with hardware) they started hating the bass to the kick drum. The bass note only sounded once the drummer “triggered” the gate. Cool video!
Great topic! So many vids focus on "how to play your instrument" with not enough focus on "how to play together," which is a skill of its own.
Wish I was there Ian, this something that I have worked on since age 15, it takes a lot of 8 note runs to get comfy with it. It comes in handy, when you are establishing feel and groove. If you have a drummer that is the full package, you can stay in the centre and he’ll do all the tasties
This is ENORMOUSLY interesting, thanks a lot, very good job!
Great lesson. These guys are wonderful teachers
As usual Ian, I really enjoy what you have to say and how you teach! Nice to hear Steve as well!
Pretty cool. What shocked me as I listened is how much our drummer and I do vary it during different songs. He keeps the tempo going very well when I'm behind, so maybe we just get it, or maybe he doesn't trust me! Never really thought about it for a while, but another drummer friend kinda taught me about it a long time ago. Man, he and I were tight. But it definitely shows up. Yeah, it feels good, we both get a smile going. And our guitar player knows it, and smiles too! Now I know why a little better! I'm going to have to share this one with our drummer! Thanky kindly!
What a fascinating and interesting concept! Great conversation! Thank you! :)
Great job, very informative, fun, enlightening and thought provoking. More please!
I lost count how many times I’ve watched this. I learn something different each time.
One of the best Lessons at SBL!
That's dope, would like more lessons like that!
I'm reality interested in this as a drummer. This is what creates feel, although not just behind, but ahead and dead on too. I put one of what I think is the best rock grooves I ever played through Reason's loop slicing thing, Dr Rex, and found that two of my BD beats were hugely beginner the beat. It gave those beats a lot of weight and gave the song its groove. Learning to play reggae taught me more than anything else about placement, because it does a mix of all of them. In my earlier days, in a jazz rock band, I played ahead a lot. The only trouble was that everyone was trying to catch up and the songs invariably sped up. The advice you give here, to aim for on the beat and you'll find your groove, is spot on. It's the hardest thing to analyse and teach and it's where music notation falls down, I think it comes naturally once you've got enough precision.
On another subject altogether and besides I couldn't find anywhere appropriate to put it, I never hear Alphonso Johnson mentioned. I've always admired him, particularly on Black Market by Weather Report. Am I alone in that our have I just missed the posts where he did get mentioned?
Anyway, thanks, as always, for an entertaining and informative video.
Some of the best drummers in the world will be all over the spetrum when they do fills - as a bass player those times were the times to hold a whole not rather than muddle it up with something that is obvious rhythm or tempo. Some of the best drummers I have ever played with- if yu put a metronome on the fills, they can sound terrible. But in the mix , can make the song.
Excellent description... I find myself leading and playing percussive bass due to the many mediocre drummers I have played with, ie I have to provide the timing and energy to keep the band moving.. It is a lot more work... It is a pleasure to sit in with a solid drummer and let the drummer take the wheel...
Chris M I so feel you on this....I too have been forced many times to be the timekeeper, AND driver of the "train" - due to playing with bad drummers in some situations, and find myself leading even a very good drummer, out of habit! But you're so right - when you play with a really good, "in the pocket" drummer - it makes our job so much easier, and stress free. When the drummer knows where to set that tempo, and stays there - the groove is guaranteed. Luckily, my band now has such a drummer, and I couldn't be happier!!
That part about weight and energy was amazing - thank you
Glad you found this useful!
That production idea is a GREAT way of thinking of playing behind and hearing it
I know this is a bass channel, but we just talk for a second about how beautiful that kit sounds?
Thank you! So much wisdom from experience there.
I'm really enjoying these SBL videos of Ian teaching some cool tips and making cool videos on albums and basses. He's such a great guy and I hope to keep seeing more of these kinds of videos. Keep 'em coming👍
Plucking hand finger length, strength, callus, nail length, technique, etc, all play into the beginning beat you play. Often overlooked, but how your fingers hit the string is as important as anything with your fretting hand.
Geddy Lee’s playing clutter the drums and take away from syncopation... wow 😳 never heard that one before. He weaves syncopated melodies all over his bass playing while he singing. Geddy deserves some proper respect.. I enjoyed Ian’s lesson but that comment floored me
This is brilliant! Not only great insight and analysis, but practical exercises for bass and drums to try together. Definitely going to try some of this stuff next time I'm with a drummer to quickly develop some shared vocabulary.
This all resonated with me 100% (yes, pun, but no better way to put it). I always wondered about this. Like "is the initial smack of the drum just the start for the bass boom that echos out of it or are they simultaneously played?" Glad they put these ideas into words. I used to wonder what was "technically right" relative to what "felt right" on these micro levels of timing and whether I was weird for thinking about it like this. Like, "if you slowed down tempo 100x, how much space would you have to properly place that note before being too early or too late? What would playing on the border sound like? Does anyone else wonder about this stuff?" Thank goodness they do. Thought I was lost in a fringe thought trap, but glad this is a mainstream concern . . . Whew!
that smacking bass example actually sounds pretty good to me, just a different feel than the slightly behind the beat Pino Palladino groove, I wouldn’t say it’s worse or better.
This is a content for the 0.01% of the viewers, but it's what makes the 0.01% musicians standing out from the crown. Thank you, Ian and Steve.
Very cool discussion. Nice vid
Beautifully explained! Very clear demonstration.
Thank you for this epiphany how you want to hear the bass sound right after the drums transient.
Fantastic. Thanks a lot for this...
This is one of the most insightful musical conversations I've ever heard. Good work, guys!
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I heard somwhere that Jeff Porcaro said that everyone has to be on the beat, so he can be "behind" to make the groove to happen. And I for one agree.
Super insightful and explained intuitively. Great lesson, SBL
Greatest rhythm lesson on youtube
Beautifully put.
Thanks for this Vid! ❤