STAR TREK DS9 Indiscretion + Rejoined | 4x4/4x5 REACTION | FIRST TIME WATCHING!!
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
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0:00 - Intro
1:49 - Indiscretion
20:33 - Review
27:17 - Rejoined
43:22 - Review - Фільми й анімація
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So good that those episodes ended up in the same pair!
I was just looking ahead to future episodes (no spoilers here, don't worry) and realised you will have a problem in season 5. Episodes 14 and 15 are a two-parter, notable for not being "Episode Title" Part 1 and 2, they have the most poetic names of any star trek 2-parter "In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light", which makes it less obvious that they are related. The problem for you is you won't see them together in your current 2-episode reaction format. You can bite that bullet or you can watch 13 and 16 together, either before or after, which won't result in any spoilers because those are unrelated storywise. Thought you deserve a heads-up because it is a really good 2-parter.
Would you like a complete Star Trek Chronological Timeline of Series, Movies, Games and Novels I made it my self.
Great episodes! We rarely get to see Earth in Trek shows and seeing the world as a utopia is wonderful. Truly the bright future Gene Roddenberry envisioned.
"That's like the Princess Leia helmet in Episode 6"
Pretty much the automatic response
Boushh was a Breen that got sucked through the wormhole and into the Star Wars universe, where he blended in with the millions of types of non-humans.
There. Fixed it for ya.
Same with Hapes warships looking like Klingon Birds of Prey@@jasoncaldwell5627
Gul Dukat is one of the most complex characters in Trek- the actor and character are incredibly likable and engaging- but at the same time, you know Dukat has some monstrous things during the Occupation .
He's NOT a good guy- but accepting that bad people have families and loves and things in common with ourselves is something few dramas touch on.
Marc Alaimo is SUCH a great actor.
Nana Visitor is no slouch herself - together, they make for some amazing episodes!
Sisko taking all the advice from his friends is wonderful. Yes, they're his crew, but damn, if the DS9 characters aren't a family!
Such a different feel from other Trek shows. DS9 is like your favorite diner, where you know the menu by heart and the staff know your regular order without you even asking for it.
I mean, serious discussion - Is Dukat the greatest villain _ever_ written? Not just in TV, but across TV, movies, books, legends... His story is engrossing, his character complex and brilliantly motivated, his status as good or bad continually in question until the end, the actor was _perfect_ and the directing fabulous.
I think he beats all movie villains simply by virtue of having more time on screen. So that leaves other shows and books. Spike from Buffy? I think Dukat wins that. Iago from Othello? Dukat is deeper and more nuanced. Comic book Thanos?
I never got to watch this show with any friends. I was the only one into it. Now I feel like I finally *AM* watching the show with friends. Nice nice nice.😊
Get a beer and a handful of sand peas with yamak sauce. Lots of great stuff coming up!
"I got an idea. Let's make the runabout a place of silent reflection from now on."
Fun fact, the actors who play dukat and gowron and garak played villains in the dirty harry movie series.
I just noticed Alaimo (Dukat) in Total Recall.
If no one has mentioned it yet, the actress for Cassidy Yates also stars in *The Orville*, the semi-comic Trek parody series. She's the doctor on that spaceship, with 2 kids. Penny Johnson.
Apparently the Trill taboo about re-association was an idea dating back to season 2 which someone had been trying to work in to an episode. Basically if there was no taboo, it would make too much sense for the joined Trill to be really insular and always wanting to be hanging out with friends and family they'd known 100s of years. Makes a certain amount of sense but feels a little extreme for the consequence to be complete exile.
I don't understand why her continued relationship with Sisko isn't part of the "taboo".
@@Anduril74871You're right. The continued relationship with Sisko is somewhat contradictory, but I just go with it.
I've always felt that the taboo applied only to other joined Trill... it was okay for a joined Trill to continue to associate with unjoined Trill (or aliens).
@@Anduril74871 The taboo only applies to other Trill and spouses, they don't care about species outside of Trill society because they don't have that much of an effect on their society/culture directly.
Tora Ziyal is one of my favourite supportive characters❤
dukat was the best villain on television
Seconded!
Dukat was the best hero... in his mind.
A contested #1 spot with Ba'al of Stargate. Both Marc Alaimo and Cliff Simon did amazing work portraying the role of somewhat lovable rouge.
I can relate with Dax & Kan, about if they have their relationship they will lose everything. That was the fear I had when and if my family and friends found out, I would lose everything. That is the one reason I did not join the Navy when I got accepted. I did not think I could keep it a secret for that long, and then in the end, at the time I would have been expelled with a dishonorable discharge, giggity, and lose that too. The stakes were high, but in the end I chose to have the relationships, and my life turned out good, I finished my master degree, had a lot of crazy fun and memorable times, and Star Trek was there for me through it all, the good and the bad. I like who I am, I work for non-profits housing the homeless, it it made me who I am...compassion/McCoy + logic/Spock + ethics/Kirk = a Humanist. That is what Star Trek is, that is what I am. 🥰
About Ducat saying that the occupation made Bajorans stronger: I remember this quote from the Stormlight Archive: “Ten spears go to battle," he whispered, "and nine shatter. Did the war forge the one that remained? No, Amaran. All the war did was identify the spear that would not break.” Here Amaram was the oppressor, and he used the same logic to justify his oppression.
Can’t believe how big your channel is getting having the real *MORN* sorry Frank Morn on doing the intro well done 👏 😂
Kira and Dukat together banting at eachother wa so funny. When Dukat sits on a rock stalagmite is the best scene, Nana Visitor has such a natural laugh. The chemistry between the actors is top notch. Why would you need pew pews and lense flares when you can get that...
To Cardassians, family is everything. If it was to be known that he had a daughter with a mistress, whether Cardassian or Bajoran, his reputation and power prospects would be ruined.
Trills and especially joined Trills are about discovery and learning you experiences. Dwelling on past loves would just be looking backwards instead of moving on.
Matt, Star Trek was always progressive from the start. Wokeness is a totally different beast altogether, a cult-like devience coming out with open propaganda and spite. Star Trek was about changing society for the better, a small step at a time, not force people into thinking all the same thingd like a dictatorship does.
To be convinced of that, pls refer to TOS very last episode, especially the ending and what Uhura says to the character she's talking to, you'll see the difference between then and now very clearly.
Here we have two characters that have a good reason to show us they love eachother because... they love eachother. There is real character development. In other productions, they just add a g/g kiss just for the sake of it and brag about it all the time "look at us, we did it, we are on the Good side." That's ridiculous.
Sci Fy always has been about talking about subjects important to us while changing the context to make it more acceptable, what we do now is just copy and paste propaganda leaflets and that's all.
If you tell to everyone what your evil plan is, people will hate you. If you talk about the subject without really talking about it and doing it in a very tactful way and not bragging about it, people will be more likely to accept it. Wokes are so impatient and vindicative that forget all necessary tact, become condescending and arrogant and ultimately stupid.
And BTW, it's not that much about lesbians themselves but transpeople as well... changing host would be like changing gender since symbiont are compatible with both... Dax transition from male to female and vice versa several times in a way.
Agree.
I wrote a similar comment that got deleted for no discernible reason
The Ravenok was headed to Lessepia- that's where Morn is from!
The problem with this AND Meridian is the one-episode development of the romance really can't possibly justify the high stakes that both episodes place on it. Meridian she'll never see anyone again, here she'll never see Trill again. How could committing to the love affair in EITHER case possibly make sense after only being together a few days! In this case at least there is the past lives to explain her feelings though, whereas Meridian...yeah. The Bashir-and-gravity-girl episode was at about the right level: big personal stakes for the character but not INSANE one way or the other about how the romance goes.
CONTINUITY & PRODUCTION PROBLEMS
INDESCRETION (IMDb RATING: 7.8)
4:55 The rank insignia on Dukat's uniform make him a Legit in this episode.
18:26 The handle on the barrel Yates hands to Sisko pops up and down all by itself.
19:37 Kira and Dax appear to be the same height here. 🤔 They aren't.
REJOINED (IMDb RATING: 7.1)
28:30 The Trill ship looks a lot like the Wadi ship seen in "Move Along Home"
30:25 Ah Ha! Here you can see the "lifts" Kira is wearing to make herself look taller. (blurred in this edit)
Of course you’re right about the commentary, anyone who disagrees is either unintelligent or bigoted, or both.
How “open-minded” of you. LOL.
Liberal hypocrisy never fails to amuse.
Your attempt to fool me failed. I immeditately knew this was not the real Morn. His voice sounds totally different!
When Rejoined was first shown, there was some backlash among certain groups about the kiss and the relationship. This was one of the first examples of a female-female kiss and it had an effect. Nowadays it's routine to have a non-binary character in shows and video games and whatnot.
Indiscretion is one of my favourites.
Can't believe Frank Morn hijacked the channel!
You know that guy will take any chance he gets to talk your ear off.
It's his deep voice and clever oration. He's practically a Lessipian Picard!
"if their representative isn't here within 52 hours..." I love Deep Space Nine commitment to the idea that given it has a different orbit around a different sun a day on Bajor is 26 hours long not 24. And DS9 being a Bajoran station sticks to the 26 hour clock. Hense instead of 2 days = 48 hours it's 52. You never see that in any other trek show or any other Sci fi show at all to my knowledge
Ah, Reska in the first episode, is the same actor that played the Zakdorn stategy expert in a 2nd Season TNG episode.
That voice is unmistakable.
If you want to see Eddington as a younger hero / protagonist, you should check out the fantasy movie Krull (1983). :D
And he had hair!
SO excited for next week. Little Green Men is my favorite episode!!!
Just like Morn, he just keeps jabbering. 😂
Obviously everyone making "Rejoined" knew that it depicts a lesbian kiss and that the episode has everyone discussing how much the two women being together romantically would ruin their lives. However,
1. Kahn was a man in the first draft. It wasn't until after the story was already written that Ronald D. Moore suggested changing the character to a woman.
2. The Ferengi episode you mentioned was very explicitly about gender roles, whereas here no one in the episode suggests-not even offhandedly-that Jadzia and Lenara's genders are an issue.
3. Terry Farrell (Jadzia) and Avery Brooks (Sisko, who you noticed directed the ep) are both on-record saying the episode is _not_ about lesbianism.
Rejoined is what it finally became, not its first draft. And even if the episode is not about lesbianism, it is still lesbian. Also, even if Kahn was a man in the actual episode, it would still be gay. Dax is either bisexual or pansexual. All Trill probably are.
@@brachiator1 Yeah, it sort of is and isn't about homosexuality at the same time.
Definitely Dax is bi or pan. Idk about "all Trill", though. Remember that the vast majority aren't joined. Then again, it's entirely possible Jadzia was bi even before being joined. We don't see enough about her pre-joining to really know.
Thank you, Oliver! 🖖 LeVar Burton and Avery Brooks directed these two.
Fun fact: 2 actors in Indiscretion also appeared in Total Recall. Ollie should watch that one.
I'm glad you liked indiscretion so much, because it secretly set up plot threads that will have huge impact years down the road.
Pretty sure Rejoined is 1 of the first lesbian kisses on TV, Star Trek always pushed the envelope and this episode did not disappoint.
Keep the episode Indiscretion in your memory. There will be serious references to it in the future. Sort of like The Defiant in season 3.
Yeah- that spike that got Dukat in the ass becomes a major threat.
@@jasoncaldwell5627 Kira should have kept that spike, brought it back to Bajor as a trophy, and placed in a museum. Bajorans could come from everywhere to see the great spike that went into their greatest oppressor's butt. It would have been a major tourist attraction.
@@fakecubed Right? Maybe she's got it in a nice keepsake box somewhere on the station.
It can be her version of Sisko's baseball.
@@fakecubed Right? Then they would have known it was a changeling and it wouldn't have been able to sabotage the Defiant
Talk aboot being "woke": in the Original Series titled "Plato's Stepchildren", season 3 episode 10, first broadcast November 22, 1968, Uhura and Captain Kirk kiss. The episode is often cited as the first example of an interracial kiss on television.
Oh wow that's so cool! One to watch one day for sure!
The first interracial kiss occurred a year earlier in "Mirror Mirror"... Barbara Luna was Filipino.
Old Trek is NOT woke! Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
One of the first kiss between two women on TV in the 90s! A few TV stations in USA don't Show the episode or the hol Serie for that specially in South USA! Susan Thompson is a Actress who appears a lot of time in Star Trek (Borg queen) and so much of a show like Green Arrow
She had a much bigger role as the Borg Queen but seeing her again here I’m reminded what a great actress she is.
I think you will be saying "I think this is my favorite of the season, quite a few more times in this season, since you are only on Episode 4 :) There are a lot of "my favorites" to come!
ABSOLUTELY LOVED Indiscretion! The rejoined Trill stuff I was never too crazy about. To be honest most of those Trill episodes after having watched them once I typically skip on re-watch. I like Dax but when they go deep Trill I usually tune out. No not always but most of the time? Yeah that Trill stuff is typically a turnoff. JMO I still like Dax just not too crazy about the lore surrounding her species.
And two hot babes kissing? Yes that's a turn on. I'm a straight male so yes it's hot. I guess this is more LGBTQ than Trill. Just not one of my favorite episodes and the chicks kissing don't save this episode IMO. When Trek touches on LGBTQ subject matter THAT ALSO is typically a turnoff for me. It doesn't happen often but occasionally in Trek it happens.
And I'm talking classic Trek in the Pre Kurtzman and Pre JJ Abrams Era.
Your lesbian commentary makes sense. This was clearly after the social ideas. Also soon too and throughout, you will continue to understand that Major Kira is a killer. Just like Garek. Gul Dukat as well I might add.
Themselves individually.
That kiss is one of the first lesbian kisses in US TV history
The first was about three or four years earlier in "LA Law".
The episode is about love and the taboo part of it doesn’t matter with the heart knows what the heart knows
I'm not really sure how you're getting lesbian subtext out of two women falling in love with each other. What's so gay about that?
Look out for Avery Brooks directed episode Far Beyond the Stars one of the best
Dr edgemar from total recall.
Can't wait until you get to Homefront / Purradise Lost ... hehe. :)
Have you seen TNG's "The Host"? It introduces the Trill and explores some of those same issues.
This episode is the first on-screen appearance of the Breen, who were previously an all-purpose dangerous alien species mentioned a few times in TNG. Remember them.
The writers probably couldn't imagine at the time that three decades later Florida would promote the same thesis as Dukat by requiring that history classes in schools teach that slavery could be beneficial to Black people because they learned useful skills.
Thank you!! Something rang a "current events" bell in my head right away with Dukat here and I couldn't exactly figure it out!
Dukut saying the occupation helped Bajor is like Hitlet saying the holocaust helped the Jews 😡
Foreshadowing
If it were meant as lesbian commentary it's awfully oblique about it other than the kiss. And if that's the intent, guess what, TNG basically did the same story when the Trill were introduced in the first place. And really that story was better than this, though without the "rejoining" subplot and from different perspective.
Another TNG episode "The Outcast" is much more directly a gay issues episode. The plot kind of reverses things to not be so on the nose, but it's clearly about stuff like that.
Though, that episode handles its issue in such a clumsy way, it's unintentionally comical at times.
Woke people hate that TNG episode because they think Dr. Crusher was being a TERF.
Starfleeet Officers are not killers.
Smooching time
At least Kira helped.
Oliver, The Breen totally look like Leah from Return of the Jedi. Just like Nausicaans totally look like The Predator lol. But unlike Nausicaans, you should remember the Breen for future purposes.
But do they SOUND like Leia from Return of the Jedi, that is the question.
SPOILERS:
can't tell
can't tell
yes :P
If he watches the TNG episode Tapestry or continues on to Enterprise, he should also remember the Naussicans.
The EP of the show, Rick Bernham, was really against any gay stuff in the show. Refer back to your Bashir/Garak shipping comments. Original goal of writers was indeed to make them a couple but Bernham shut that down. According to people who worked with him he was very homophobic, transphobic, and sexist even by 90s standards. Most episodes that he personally writes that are more about social issues are quite problematic. Making the Rejoined episode even more of a miracle for existing.
Bashir and garak were never intended to be a couple by any writers though. It wasn’t even an idea until Andrew Robinson’s performance.
That Quark episode was not a commentary on transgenderism. It was a comment on gender equality. The character in it didn't identify as a man, she dressed up as a man to overcome The hurdles erected by her society for women.
Trek being Progressive goes way back to TOS with the first on screen interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura. That was way before me, but I saw the kiss in this one when it first aired. Honestly, the only people put off were the hard core Bible thumpers. I was glad they did it, stirring pot is always good. Especially when done with class like Trek does.
Progressive storytelling isn’t the same thing as going full woke. Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
@GeorgeEugeneBarrett no, "Woke" is a term for people when its something they don't like. Every single time I've ever seen poeple bitch about that term is because they don't like whatever the subject matter is. Every single time.
@@RailfanJason false. I just explained it.
@@GeorgeEugeneBarrett and I disagree.
An episode of Blue Balls Bashir.
The actress that played Kahn also played the Borg Queen in Voyager.
Why is everyone in such a rush to spoil Voyager for him? At least stick to spoiling DS9 if you want to be terrible.
Rejoined shows us that a mature story about relationships can be really engaging and watchable even without any threats of invasion or anything external pushing the plot forward.
Yes, this was a bit groundbreaking for the era to show two women in love and kissing- but Trek is about accepting diversity.
I loved Sisko's scene with Dax- particularly how he stood with his friend and told her that he'd support her all the way.
Captain Sisko is a real one- always going to bat for his friends and his crew.
The actress that played Lanara would go on to have a large recurring role on Voyager a few years after this episode.
Dukat hitting on Kira creeps me out.
It's explained in one of the O'Brien episodes. Cardassians use hostility as flirting. The more she openly despises him, the more attracted he becomes to her. Also, he had a thing for her mother.
And you are supposed to be creeped out. It's the whole point of his acting.
PS. I miss when Star Trek had lore.
You don't need to the world to make society better.
This was the era when Ellen Degeneres had already had the 1s Lesbian kissed and other shows would do the same but when he public generally did not discuss LGB things.
The 1st lesbian kiss I remember was between Michelle Green and Amanda Donohoe in LA Law (1991).
Ellen show began like 2002 or 2003 and this episode aired in 1996.
@@cashflowhustles Not her talk show. Her sitcom was between 94 and 98.
ehh before you say the critics are wrong about so-called "Woke Trek" I would wait until you reach Discovery then you might understand that it's not the idea of Star Trek being woke that's the issue, it's how its written.
💯
Id like to think in the future we are not discussing gay relationships. Love is Love, period.
If the woke people get their way, those will be the only kind we're allowed to discuss, and it must be the topic of conversation at all times.
@@fakecubed not really the point Im making.
When people say "woke" they generally mean "annoying" or "in your face" or "repeating what you already know" or "too obvious" its not the message its the deliver of the message. The timing of the message.
That's how a lot of people mean it. Myself included if I think something is being "too woke". It doesn't mean they're just including something. That's not what bothers me. I'm bisexual, I obviously don't have any problem with gay relationships. But when it feels preachy, or when they decide to make characters who have NO other personality or point of being in the story other than their sexuality/race/religion/etc.. that's when it gets annoying and becomes something I'd consider "woke". That's how a lot of people use that word, which I don't think a lot of the people who complain about others thinking something is woke really understand all the time. It's like we're using the same word with different definitions almost.
Star Trek has always been woke. It has had some of the most obvious and peachy episodes about sex, race and politics of any TV show ever. And SF and fantasy shows are the special domain of wokeness. Rod Serling, creator of the Twilight Zone, noted that he could get away with messaging because science fiction was not taken as seriously as straight drama, and the censors and busybodies didn't pay as much attention to allegory and metaphor.
@@brachiator1 Old Trek is NOT woke! Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
Technically not lesbians. Dax was a man when they were married...
The same thing happened when Beverly fell for a Trill on TNG.
Good point. And I almost agree with you. Dax is a woman now. So, the relationship is actually lesbian, or perhaps pansexual. But there is added resonance because their relationship was unresolved and Kahn still loves the person that Jadzia used to be, and is now.
No one argues that there isn't progressive themes and issues tackled in Star Trek. You are arguing about it without knowing what modern Star Trek is like. It's not that there are 'woke' themes and issues in modern Star Trek, it's that it's no longer about it making sense in the episodes and being well blended into it. Instead it's soapboxing and using a sledgehammer to get their point across instead of trying to convince the viewer with the story itself.
"Woke" isn't progressive. Progressive isn't "woke". Actual progressives are as disgusted by NuTrek as anyone else.
Yes. So tired of the “Star Trek has always been woke” people that refuse to acknowledge the difference.
Star Trek is not woke, Star Trek is liberal. It's specifically rooted in the liberalism of the 1960s. That's why it portrays a colorblind, egalitarian society where men and women are equal but still distinct. A "woke" Star Trek would be unimaginable, largely because you can't extrapolate a coherent world from the ever shifting blob that is "wokeness." Wokeness is post-modern and queer, meaning that it seeks to deconstruct all normative structures. You can't actually have a world where nobody has gender and it would be an absolute tragedy if we're still obsessed with race in 300 years.
So the alien in this is the breen, once a joke made by the writers of ds9 they end up being a real race
Breen love the cold and are a enigma inside a contradiction and are the few known races that uses organic components to their ships. Breen have never been seen without their refrigeration suits. Spoiler you see them more often in the final season on ds9
If you know it's a spoiler, why are you commenting it?
The problem with pre-2005 Star Trek being called ''woke'' is that Trek was usually too late to the game when it came to social politics (particularly in the 90's). I love that Trek made progressive social commentary, but they usually only did it after it was already safe to do so. By the time ''Rejoined'' happened in 1995, there had already been countless gay characters on TV shows since the 70's, and Trek didn't even have a guest character who was gay.
The first gay kiss on TV happened 4 years earlier on LA Law. And unlike the LA Law kiss, neither of the characters on DS9 are even gay. It's only because of their previous hosts (who were straight, of course) that the rekindled romance even happened. It took Trek all the way until 2017 to actually have a gay character, and it was via the dumbest writing in the history of the franchise.
TNG had The Outcast which was their commentary on same sex relationships.
And the episode The Host was actually the very first time they introduced the Trill into the universe. Ironically, the ending of The Host didn't show intolerance, but showed how some people simply have a hard time accepting differences on a personal level
After "Rejoined" aired, someone called to complain about the episode. One of the staff answered the phone and were told by the caller that the episode was somehow damaging their child's mind if they saw two women kissing. The staffer said, "So you'd be ok with it if one of the characters had grabbed a phaser and shot the other instead?" The caller said, "Yes, of course" and the staffer replied, "Sounds like you're the one damaging your child's mind."
And then everyone stood up and clapped, so stunning and brave!
Everyone who pointed out the slippery slope in the 90s has been proven right in current year.
@@fakecubedYep.
Just catching up with you and your Star Trek episodes. Great to see someone react to DS9, it's a fantastic show. While Rejoined was intended to be about same sex relationships, it's hard not to see the Trill as also dealing with Trans, gender fluid and non binary topics these days too.
For me as a gay dude this episode didn't blow my mind back in 1996, it was just cool to watch this as a normal aspect in life. I was 16 and still years before my coming out :)
TNG deals with this topic two times, years before this episode ;)
That's not what Woke means lol, Wokeness is the over promotion of of minorities and perceived discrimination to the detriment of everyone else, i.e replacing and the destruction of every superhero in the MCU because they are white and male, where as there was already representation in the MCU before that :)
Or, replacing male characters in general with females; it's not just minorities. In terms of his comment that Star Trek is already woke, I'm not sure what he means. A diverse cast, or dealing with different types of subject matter, doesn't necessarily make something woke; When the focus is primarily on what each person is rather than what unique skills they bring to the group as a whole, that's when it becomes a problem for me.
Star Trek was always about showing how different kinds of people could work together in a utopian future, and _NOT_ making it a big deal, because it _shouldn't_ be a big deal. Woke is about how whites and males and straights are bad and should be excluded from society, destroying the nuclear family, and pushing far-left economic ideology. Woke people would criticize this episode for featuring two white "cis" characters, for promoting the idea that marriage is something meaningful, and for not redistributing Quark's ear latinum to Sisko as reparations for events that neither Sisko nor Quark were alive to be involved with. Never mind that Sisko is the most powerful person on the station, as a small business owner Quark is the real enemy. Oh, and there would need to be a scene where Bajorans burn down Odo's security office, that kind of goes without saying.
This episode was controversial at the time for having the first same sex kiss in Star Trek.
Very progressive
I don't recall any "controversy".
Hollywood gossip shows like "Entertainment Tonight" and TMZ tried to play it up, but actually, no one really cared.... and DS-9 got some free publicity.
@@MrDeathpilot Plenty of cast and crew played it up also in that case haha. And the affiliates that cut the scene also did some extra editing work for "not caring" apparently.
Star Trek overall likes to trumpet these things because it's nice to feel important, but I guess how much of it is "real" depends on whether you think they're just making up the hate mail and censorship incidents or not.
@@jerodast Still stalking me? Get a life, TROLL.
Snowflakes nowadays love to call it a "LGBTQ episode", but in reality it was two hot women having a kiss (one of the most traditional male fantasies). This is "our" episode, not "yours". Only wish it was Dax and Kira, though.
while rejoined might have had some "gay couples" undertones, regardless, it opens an interesting question.
the idea of the symbionts, is that they can live, and remember, many lives. Should marriage carry over from one life to the next? should it be allowed, should it be denied?
on the one hand, one can argue "let them choose"; after all, even us normal people, choose, every day, if we wish to stay with out partner or not, so let them choose if they want to stay, and/or divorce.
here's the problem, there are TWO people in each side of that relationship. the symbionts is not suppose to be like a SG1 gould, that takes over the body, and force it to do what it wants. in fact, it's suppose to be more of a back seat driver, taking in the experiences, and mostly, just remembering. Given that, it would make sense they would have rules forcing them from "going back to their old lives", in order to make sure the symbionts are not tempted to force their way.
Yes Star Trek was “woke” before. The difference is Star Trek used to be tastefully woke. Narrative setup and good execution goes a long way. A relationship romantic or otherwise, executed poorly, regardless of commentary involved, will always be met negatively when done poorly.
Old Trek is NOT woke! Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
Rejoined absolutely was a commentary on homosexuality and homophobia, with the Trill taboo used as an allegory. Note that nobody in the episode has a problem with the idea of a female/female relationship, because such bigotry is supposed to be long gone by the 24 century.
Star Trek has always been one to push boundaries. It had one of the first instances of an interracial kiss on US network TV in TOS (often believed to be the first, but apparently it was actually beaten to the punch by some long-forgotten show). People sometimes forget just how radical and in your face Star Trek was with its politics because it seems so tame by modern standards. TNG could be really preachy, at times. People often claim it was subtle about it, but it rarely was.
Apparently Nichelle Nicholls once asked Gene Roddenberry if he was using the show to tell morality tales and he just grinned and walked off!
What's up with this new thing of young people on UA-cam mispronouncing ''women?'' I have seen countless young people repeatedly pronouncing it the same way as the singular ''woman.'' Is this a new thing? Ollie mispronounces it every time he says it, and i'm so confused.
"nuTrek is so woke"
Me: "What franchise have YOU been watching for almost 60 years, where you think this is NEW?" 🖖😂❤
The franchise that DIDN'T explicitly shit on white men every five damn seconds.
@@ericlewisauthor 🤣🤣 What are you even talking about?
I think you are insane
Old Trek is NOT woke! Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
Yeah, it obviously is social commentary on gay relationships. I don't remember if you watched TNG's "The Outcast," it is about similar topic. If you haven't, check it out at some point. And yes, Star Trek has always been "woke," it is one of its best and defining qualities.
I agree it could be interpreted as social commentary but both the writers and actors said it wasn’t originally supposed to be.
I think if you react to any other Star Trek then it should be Discovery. I think you will love it!
ewww. enterprise and strange new worlds are both better
@@nostrum6410There is also Voyager. But let’s be honest all the B&B shows we’re just not that good, but there were some pretty darn good episodes among them. It’s just a shame it took firing Jeri Taylor and Branon Braga,to figure it out. It really is a shame. They couldn’t get Manny Cotto just one more season one to end ENT in a high note.
Discovery is absolute garbage.
Star Trek has always been woke. Star Trek's DNA is woke. Anyone complaining about ST being "too woke" are dum dums and should not be taken seriously.
You don't know what woke even is.
@@fakecubed I suspect you certainly don't. The so-called anti-woke experts have routinely made fools of themselves when asked to define it.
Old Trek is NOT woke! Wokeism is obsessed with identity for the sake of “representation” itself. Old Trek introduced cultural issues that advanced a cohesive narrative. That’s not woke nor what many of us complain about.
Can you pls stop to use the term "woke"?! That´s right wing crap. We don´t need such exclusive words in the normal world. They are in love, that´s it. They are not "woke" or something.
The left came up with the term. The fact that normal people now find everything associated with it completely toxic is a commentary on leftist politics, not the right.
LOL. Triggered.
Star Trek is Liberal, NOT woke.
The difference is that liberal has a left bias, but seeks an environment where all people can thrive based on their own abilities beliefs and character.
“Woke” is when the left has gone so far left that it has circled the globe and has more in common with the far right: it judges and organizes based on race and other factors, refuses to engage or respect cultures and ideas outside its narrow window of acceptable views, forcibly shuts down ideas outside that window, and preaches an authoritarian forced compliance with its ideas.
J K Rawling would be welcomed on DS9. She would be attacked in a woke environment.
In other words "woke is bad when it makes me feel bad, but old wokeness was fine because it only made people who held conservative beliefs of THAT time feel bad" haha.
You don't know the meaning of "Woke". Woke means to be alert to injustice, or cons, or being aware of how societal systems and processes work. That's all. You can be left-wing and woke, or right-wing and woke. OR you can be left-wing and asleep, or right-wing and asleep.
Your statements show you to be asleep! Wake up!!
The woke people hate Star Trek _because_ it's liberal. That's why they created NuTrek to completely destroy and replace the old Star Trek. It's a revolutionary ideology. If allowed to persist, it will soon be shitting all over NuTrek with NuNuTrek in ten years for not being woke enough.
@@jerodastah yes, the old “I can’t engage directly with your argument, so I will pretend you said something else, and then make fun of that” approach.
@@user-lc8mn5ud1l “Alert to injustice“ means looking for things to get mad about, and are so eager to pounce on those things that you don’t stop to get the facts and typically end up hurting innocent people and making things worse.
The world will not be made a better place by lynch mobs
I’ll say this about the wokeness: Yes of course it existed and sometimes it was subtle and other times it was super obvious. But unlike today’s media, it never felt “in your face”. And more importantly, again unlike today, you were never gaslit if and when you disapproved.
the half white half black and half black half white people were pretty in your face for the 60s
There's a difference between progressive and woke.
I kind of think it's feels more in "your face" because the media and technology have changed. Now everybody can comment and interact on almost every media. 25 years ago when ds9 aired to get personal feedback from the 'media' would be if you call a hotline or send a fan letter in.
"Wokeness" is a conservative propaganda word that means "anything conservatives are against."
Like "TDS", only MAGA supporters even use it. 🤨 Baronvg has outed himself.
This is a term that used to mean "aware of social issues", but MAGA has bastardized it and changed the meaning, just like they did with "Fake news", "hostages", "truth" and "patriot".
Now, THAT'S gaslighting. 🙄
MAGAs can't tell you exactly what "woke" means, but from their use of the word, I can tell what it DOESN'T mean:
RACIST BIGOTED
HOMOPHOBIC APATHETIC
IGNORANT PREJUDICED
SELFISH GASLIT
JUDGMENTAL INTOLERANT
So go ahead and call me "WOKE" 🤨
@@aaronsibley The main difference is that one episode was terrible.
The woke shit are all the weakest parts of DS9.
DS9 is not woke ^^
@martinfehringer6408 most is not. The pushing of gender questions and lesbianism in this episode and attempting to make aBashir into a cuck, is very woke.
It is why this episode is often hated.
Later there are things that nearly destroy the show.
Fortunately there is so much based and redpilled going on, it overwhelms to leftist/socialist/wokeness.
Kassidy Yates is awesome!! :D
Also, believe it or not, the Dax lesbian kiss was considered "controversial" for TV in the 90's! LOLLZ How far we've come, but how far we have still yet to go.