Why the INTJ would give up on life
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2024
- #intj #mbti #introvert
What would cause the INTJ to become disillusioned?
Is it family, friends, their job?
Is it because nobody truly understands them?
It's a topic I've been thinking about a lot lately and wanted to vent into the abyss.
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First, I appreciated and enjoyed your video about fatherhood because we need more representation from INTJs on real life topics. I don't have children myself but I've helped raised enough nieces and nephews to have those proud moments where I know my legacy will continue when I see them do something as simple as trolling their parents (and they for sure learned that from me because I'm the only troll in the family).
I felt disillusioned when I reached a certain point on the coporate ladder. I felt like I was in the movie 'American Psycho' when I was surrounded by colleagues and they were talking about getting reservations at a restaurant that's impossible to reserve, all while dressed the same, and the only different between them were the color of their skin or gender. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try it yourself because there's a lot of benefits such as monetary compensation that will improve your family situations economically but I will say that as an INTJ that indexes highly with Te, Fi did not enjoy being at the top.
Hey it's Jonny boy
The power struggle between Te and Fi is real man. 😮💨
Greed.
When society becomes blind followers of authority.
When society compromises personal values, morals, and principles.
Any place with this kind of system is my graveyard.
I gave up of trying to explain myself to family, also "they never really tried to know and understand me neither." (thanks to the psychologist who said me this)
"Wanting to know" and the "will to understand" is not them, not in their functions, not their priority, not what they like or prefer to do.
_ Often I don't get their full attention, they don't listen me as much attention and focus that I would like. They half listen, or they do something in same time. Or it's like the information don't reach them, or they don't care.
_ What is important for me, is not important for them & what is important for them, is not important for me.
_ They don't let me the time to explain myself.
_ And when I explain myself, they have difficulty to understand that I don't think like them and don't function like them, that I am not like the majority of people.
I choose carefully my words in order to other to don't misinterpret my sentences, but they often misinterpret, try to find what does it means, whereas I gave all the details literally. Everything is here, as it is, not need to interpret : but other interpret it and think I say the reverse.
I also gave up of trying to fit-in and to search a job.
_ Trying to prove or rather convince the Si dom recruiters, that I have all the skills and even more for the job, but in their Si mind, the people stay the same as they were in the past until we bring proofs that we already done the same job before _ When the recruiters were N dom, it was easier.
_ I am self-taught (en I learn by doing) and learn better and faster lonely than by following a procedure. When I follow a procedure, I always end-up to re-write the procedure in a simpler and more efficient way for me.
_ Is my language really too abstract for the majority ? I have tendency to digress, and to become philosophical/abstract.
_ I know I have difficulties to express myself ... until I meet/talk to other healthy INTJs 💙🥰 (or certains other N types) and I feel they are like my real family (because for me being understood = feel loved) I love their soul.
Only INTJ can fully get me and understand me deeply. We function, think, feel the same, we had/have the same issues in life.
Probably only INTJ want understand people on a deeper level, existential level. We have another level of consciousness/awareness, way of being in the world.
A printer is not able/programmed to calculate, and a calculator is not able/programmed to print (I have the same impression with personality types sometimes)
All the IN types we have this feeling of not being understood, INTJ even more I think. And it's a terrible feeling. 😭
What is this creature ? INTJ have super deep feelings, but difficulty to express them (The Fe as 7th function doesn't help us)
I am limited too : I can't create as much things as I want to, I can't produce as much as I want to, I can't write as much as I want to.
The energy always come and go, produce and recharge. I realized that I needed a lot of time to recharge.
Sometimes I am unable to process more informations or to write more, I need a break, trouble with executive functions (it come from my Asperger side I think)
It's really frustrating, because I want, I really want, I know I will do all the things I want to do, I want to accomplish so much more. But I am limited by my body and energy. Like Ni never stop and always have ideas and projects, whereas Te doesn't always follow and need to recharge.
I never searched to be successful, now I just do what I want and like to do, what passionate me, what make me happy and bring me peace.
The life unfold, we should do what we love to do and appreciate what we have, accept our talents and weakness, bring love, support and help everyone, love ourselves.
We all suffer in a different way, from our lower functions.
This was really well said. 💯 agree.
What is it with people though? Ill say exactly what Im thinking, but like people will try to "read in between the lines" lol and thats when i end up misunderstood.
@@khayla_matthews Same, maybe it's something about Intuition and Sensing, because we try to adapt to each other ?
Seems common for sensors to assume and misinterpret ?
Hi! An INTJ here, thank you for this, it’s comforting
Random side comment, you have really beautiful eyes--not sure if it's your camera or the mediocre lighting but it's really working for you. But, that's interesting, I do think that INTJs are like these deep wells of desire...faced with practical reality. The world can be a little disappointing if you really want more, want everything, and you come up against limited resources, limited capacities, etc. And true, I think we need to give up an ideal of intellectual meritocracy (because that's certainly not how society functions), and perhaps refocus on building out the softer communication and people skills that will make us more balanced, and allow us to get more out of life. While, some of us want to become competent experts in one skill, I think a subset of us want to be holistically accomplished. Personally, one of my top life goals is to stay actively engaged in life, so I'm always looking for new avenues by which to do so. And that's all the pennies I currently have in my pocket :) Thanks for the discussion!
Haha, god delivered I just signed for them. Thank you! 100% we need to focus more on the softer skills and build up our ability to network and connect with people. I'm positive that's where we miss out on the great life experiences.
To be honest, (I'm an INTJ, 5w4) my biggest disillusionment has to be with society as a whole, what it "values", what is sees as acceptable, lack of wisdom and the completed disregard of, well, logical reasoning.
It seems to me that competency, talent and plans with good intentions are cast aside for ulterior motives, which has made living incredibly difficult at virtually all facets of life. From family to work, relationships (if one is luck enough to have one) to goals, all of it is apparently 10 times harder to manages than it used to be, at least for me. After applying myself 110%, over many years, I'm finding myself burning out.
Have you accepted the world as it truly is and decided to thrive within it? If not, you've accepted the way the world is and are attempting to resist it, which I see as the eternal INTJ struggle.
I think disillusionment is the acceptance, and time to acclimate, to information that had previously been filtered as extraneous. Our ability to comprehend has changed. I think, much as any type, we are also capable to filtering information that threatens our current perception. Defense mechanisms are very powerful.
I found I like the rewards of the teaching process. To put someone on a path that is improved over my own. I've wanted kid since I was a teenager and a partner to share in the experience.
When I was in my teens the world seemed possible. I knew there wasn't enough life in one person to do everything, I just had to pick something. I also knew most people ended up with a partner. So, I assumed I would end up with someone as well and the demands of that person's life would inevitably help determine which path I would follow. Then, anything that I did would be useful to my partner because it would accommodate our life. Despite falling for someone and they falling for me, we didn't end up together because they couldn't feel comfortable with someone who didn't have a path. I couldn't fulfill their need. In a sense, it was world shattering, to think I had to become socially marketable (a stereotype) for someone to else to feel comfortable, rather than just who I am. Not something to which I am capable. I took a moment at 19 to decide if I had value, to not just emotionally hate myself but to quantify my place in the bigger picture. Though I decided I didn't have any real value, I found I neither added or subtracted value.
I guess you could say I put myself away for 10 years and zombied through the motions of living. During and after that time my reality has been reaffirmed periodically.
The one thing I wanted was kids and a partner, a core definition of husband and father. It appears likely the one thing I won't have.
Burnout for me is a cycle of remembering what I want, a defense mechanism to block my reality and then trying to accept what I am, over and over again.
It isn't about legacy to me as much as doing my part to keep the big picture moving forward so it won't be stuck on repeat. You don't want your kids to be you, you want them to be the you, you should/could have been. In turn, you want your kids to want that for their kids. This way we all move forward. If you fail, and your kids repeat your mistakes, you see the picture repeating itself. Yeh, I know it is the Matrix, but that is humanity for you. Learn from the past or you are doomed to repeat it.
Everything you said, but I’ve also had many experiences where I try to help somebody but they either thought it was weird I was helping them, or weirdly thought I was trying to sabotage them or nitpicked my wording and thought I was too judgmental. And then I kept thinking, boy people are stupid!
I realize there’s a lot of social norms about helping people. I can have the perfect solution for somebody, but if they’re on a different rung of the social ladder I’m not supposed to help them. Stupid stuff like that
The quintessential INTJ here and I've given up. Ask me anything while I'm still here.
Why'd you give up?
@@GhostofJungthe world doesn't deserve me.
@l-ixir you just proved him right, next
@l-ixir keep digging
The INTJ gives up on life when their Ni no longer manifests truths. It is directly correlated to the environment they dwell on and in. It is very common.
I love this. I'm going to have to notice this in myself and other Ni users. Did you discover this or read it somewhere?
@GhostofJung It was not something I read no. Ni is an acceptance and learned tolerance of undeniable truths. INTJs in the wrong environment are highly susceptible to giving up due to the constant tug of war that conformity presents.
I lived this. Was the whizz kid in school, reading Jules Verne in 1st grade, teaching myself by reading the textbooks, in accelerated classes, etc. My knowledge and perspective was my power.
Later on, in middle school, being an outlier, even a positive one, became more detrimental and I became socially outcast, as well as my teachers forcing me to stay the same pace as others in class. So, I became incredibly bored amd began struggling.
Rather than figuring out what was going on, my mother and her boyfriend at the time (a narcissist) decided the best course of action was to punish me by taking away everything but my bed and a couple books, and I couldn't leave my room except to eat, use the restroom or go to school. In my mind, I had failed at what made me me. My Ni had failed. So, I gave up, and retreated for about 15 years from life.
So yep, it's a real thing, and it happens.
@@jeffshaw674 ever since the innocence of adolescense washed away and I have seen the world for what it really is, this exact phenomenon has occured. Im glad you were able to put it into words, I am so sick of the blatant lies people put up with for the sake of "keeping the peace", it's conformity to their own detriment. (Long term, not in the immediate) Id rather be dangerously myself and point out the BS than safely be a cog in a soul crushing machine.
@@LaMach420Oh yeah, you are spot on. Same happened to me. I retired at age 25, travelled the world and finally had time to give full attantion to my thoughts and interests. I realised that the best argument (not to mention the truth) rarely succeeds. Sure, I could have find a way to manipulate or funnel people the right direction in order to get ahead. But I am not a babysitter. I got more important things to do.
I’m disillusioned by the truth. Because I believed an illusion.
In other words I have been healing from delusion.
I think as an ENTJ i became really depressed when i plan something and it does not go my way and then I’ll stick in a mud of what’s the point everything i feel is wrong and it won’t happen
Im an INTJ and i think mine comes from feeling misunderstood
I got disillusioned right after grad school. I always felt driven for the best, ambitious for my set goals but after college I was there without my real plans. The world and life I used to imagine wasn't so easy in reality. Plus I realised I'd been building this ideal state in my love life which got it's reality check when I was at my lowest, according to my standards. So after losing my love, getting close enough experience of a smart narcissist, facing career low, surviving a near death accident that resulted a hand surgery, here I'm with lot of clarity and defined goals. Now life feels "real". 😊 I believe I'm turning into a mature INTJ now.
wow that's an intense journey! The love life is what interests me most - what made you lose your love?
How old are you now? Just tryna see on avg what age INTJs figure stuff out.
Accurate situation I'm also currently facing. I'm almost 17, already planned through what I want to do in life, stressing over the fact that I can't achieve as much as I want to. There are a lot of things to give up on, to make it realistic. It all comes down to priorities and the question wether it is truly fulfilling myself and what I'm made for. There's a lot I could do and can work towards. I try hard to be excellent in many kinds of categories. It's bothering to know, what you're actually capable of, especially as a gifted. But being human, there's only one path one can go, because there's unlimited information in the world, that can't all be learned. I guess, that's the INTJs dilemma, to give up and go one path, with the advantage of having multiple doors open with possibilities. You can look down on it as a blessing or curse.
Reading through the comments, it's a pain seeing the fight we all face. Due to over-analyzing reality and over-stressing with logical reasoning, we might find ourselves with the choice wether to see life as it's given to us with no meaning, or create one. Very probably a majority of people face this conclusion, but for the INTJ it's harder, in my perspective, to not have a deep grounded root to live for. Said, that not unless it has a specific reason or quality I won't commit to it. But if life hasn't gotten both of that, what really is there to commit. I can keep on doing my usual tasks everyday, but I find myself in situations and really question if I even should be committing my work if I could be doing something "better". That's questioning my personal goals over worth again.
I'm not sure if that made sense, hopefully it's somewhat understandable.
I'm adding, that I question relationships over value, especially when being the more busy with work I keep adding. Its leaving me the more isolated from the world, creating a life where it's only me and my achievements. Fully focusing on goals, but it isn't a problem for me. Its actually something I could keep on doing. But its affecting my social life and therfore health. We are complex, but we must not neglect and overcome accepting the fact we have human needs. It's crazy that we can keep working like a roboter like it's the most legit thing. That's where an INTJ really can get miserable
I think people choosing to have children to right their wrongs, make their upgraded copies or pass on some wisdom is weird. It’s also self aggrandizing. It’s a common theme I come across. This pass the wisdom notion is also what our parents thought as well. They passed all their wisdom yet here’s the world we still live in. But we are individuals. We make our own choices, mistakes and walk our own paths. I think people choosing to want to be parents need to understand that they are stewards for a time until the child gains the ability to forge their own paths and live their own lives. There are many ways to live impact in the world without overburdening another being that didn’t ask to be here to fulfill your wishes.
I was pissed when I read the last sentence but then it was impactful to me. I want to pass wisdom but not impose a life onto my kids. I don't want to live vicariously through them either
Damn!!!
Brother you have a new subscriber, you talking to me , like a Rare breed of someone who actually understands me, and it happen ... like... Null.
means alot - glad we "know" each other!
yeah definitely the thing with having no children will hurt me the most, I'm 36, and for me Im focus on my big system I don't have time for the love of my life which is desperate wants me to marry her and have kids , and I want it deeply but only after I'll succeed at finishing my gigentic system, which is so unfortuneate but for sure I'll capitulate and marry at 38 -40 if I can't done with it, completely, and better before, I'll make it my top priority if I'll see myself starting to hit 39 that will be what I'll be all about-fast marriage and children, in order to have that love - which I'm good at, and I don't respect it as much as I need because this comes easy to me, and kids, which excatly as you said, I must pass my knowledge and love forward and create a legacy. not having it, if you ask what break INTJ is exactly that.
well. If I'll see all my giant system get completely destroyed, I'll find something easy but manageable , and for sure I'll be less happy, but not broken. I think. Because I'll be focusing on getting crazy vibes, and crazy experiences , it is either for me - to nail it and get my giant system and sort of "rule the world" and push my unbelivable projects and the ones after next. or just getting crazily joyful and seek for the most outrageous experiences in life that will queeze the juice out of me so why should I get broken If my top few decades system won't work. now I don't have nothing to lose I'll be like living like I don't give a Dammm - but on steroids
For me it's that exactly one of my long-term goals/plans was actually realized (getting degreed)… the rest turned to ashes in my mouth. I'm over 40 now, and struggling with finding work yet again; I'm just so tired of trying and getting nothing in return.
What field are you in?
@@GhostofJung Computer Science, the software-engineering / programming side of things.
lol as a INTP woman (I pretend to be a man in web) I just give up on people or sometimes I pretend to be more like them but I have never found person similar to me especially women are more feeling types. Men just prefer to have male friends it is kind of weird for woman to have male friends so... also I don't like games, sports, typical male stuff so I don't connect with most men and women. If I am myself people are shocked :D it is even worse when I talk out loud my true thoughts than when I don't talk :D Sad thing is there is no place in society for INTP/INTJ people I mean really. I thought maybe in college I would find people like me but nope once again I had to pretend to be someone else. First disillusion? hmm probably when I was 8 I started questioning God I mean there is no proof that he exists so why everyone is praying for someone who maybe doesn't exist ? But again saying these things out loud got me in trouble. But I am more optimistic now because I know that almost every person has problems with people even ESTJ/ESFJ most common types. So I moved on I don't even think about this and I am rarely sad. It just will be nice to find someone who gets you and you don't have to explain yourself again and again...
I have a lot of things that drained my energy and pushed me towards serveral kinds of crisis. Like the point you mentioned with feeling alone and isolated, even among friends. But in most cases I'm aware that I'm my biggest enemy and I don't think the world owes me something.
I've struggled with different mental health issues that only made other problems worse (like isolation). But other then the feeling of (sometimes self-imposed) isolation, I have two things that really hurt me and both are connected. First is seeing how things develop and it doesn't matter if this are relationsships of friends and family or companies, societies or the world as a whole. As INTJs we can often 'see' the future (better multiple options) and problems that can occure. But my second problem is that I don't get the ideas, theories and so on out of my head into reality. And seeing if my creations work, or getting feedback is something I was craving for even before I could put it in words.
And if you combine those two problems: It feels a bit like the myth about Cassandra, seeing the future (f.e. disasters) and can't do anything about it. 😕
This is where the Te and Se are necessary to force things into reality. Even if they fail, you know CAN make things a reality through your intentional work. Your ego may suffer and your Ni could be wrong, but you're healthier for it.
I’m an INTJ and I have a kid. I love being a dad. I was an ENFP before my son was born and becoming a parent changed my personality. It increased my introversion and made me more analytical.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣👀
@l-ixir yeah it does. Personality, especially after a big event, trauma, etc. You think people who come back from war have the same personality? Hell no.
Where I've becomed disillusioned with life is not having someone that fully understands me and my views, interests, and not finding someone who truly loves me for who I am and views money and status the same way that I do that it doesn't matter in life, money is just a way to buy your own freedom but ultimately freedom is what should matter, not status, what someone truly wants in their heart is what should matter.
I can see that and have felt that before. Do you have someone now or are you single? What's been your relationship history?
@@GhostofJung I was in an incompatible relationship and recently met someone that understands me on a deep level I'm INFJ he's INTJ and I could see our potential and what an amazing relationship we could be but he's in a relationship and I can't make him choose me and I would never want to intentionally hurt someone or their family.😢
The child thing I really felt that one. I don't have kids, neither am i planning to have kids because honestly I think I'd be a horrible parent. Not only my Se insufficient, I'm also highly disagreeable.
Also seems like you're doing things for the sake of doing things, and not because you particularly like them very much. Like the book reading thing, I want to read a lot of books, why do you want to read these books? What knowledge do you want to get out of them? Who the hell cares if that INTP read more books than you, they're gonna foget most of what they read anyway...
Wanting to do everything a 100% is indeed a surefire way to destroy yourself, you got to define succes for what it means to you, rather than the societal definitions. But you got to keep things realistic since you're not a robot. Be careful not to set goals for the sake of setting goals.
About being articulate about what you're about. This is probably the Ni - Fi loop. Neither of these are thinking functions and that's why it's hard for the INTJ to rationally articulate what they precisely want verbally because in the end it comes from a place of irrationality. They are deeply held values and principles that don't lend themselves to be verbalised very well. Not knowing them yet, or to precisely figure out what they are about is therefore completely normal, and not something to be ashamed about. This will always be a process of discovery for the INTJ.
I changed my view and my ideal think to not expect anything to other peoples except my self not in the disrespect or bad way, that's maybe I'm not too much stress if people don't connect with me
Good move
Real INTJs do not exploit things. They acquire knowledge. Exploiting has a dishonest context, something sane INTJs do not find ethical therefore will not do it. INTJs do not work for the money or success, they work for the knowledge. Think about "Shape of my heart" from Sting.
So many gems and food for thought in one short video.
I've been thinking about the question posed at the end of the video for a few minutes.
To put it as simply as I can, I think what has caused disillusionment for me in the past is just things not going the way I think they should. when for whatever reason things dont happen the way I think is logical given my desired/expected outcome.
Like, for ex, with regards to career and relationships and etc, so much of what it takes to be successful at those (at least in the beginning) seems to have little to do with your actual aptitude as an employee or partner and more to do with what you look like and how adept you are at small talk. That's so illogical to me.
It isn't always because of external factors though.
I think disillusionment can also happen if Im trying to reach a goal and it isnt happening within the timeline I think is reasonable. Im not learning as quickly as I should. Or whatever it may be.
As Ive gotten older, Ive become a little more patient with myself and others thankfully. Which can help fight complete disillusionment, but it will always be a struggle I think.
"I think disillusionment can also happen if I'm trying to reach a goal and it isn't happening within the timeline I think is reasonable" yes I get this. I wonder if it's Se impatience and needing things to happen NOW even though we know it's truly going to take time. I think we set a time limit on our goals and then never change them even though its arbitrary and NOBODY is holding us to that timeline
@@GhostofJung yes. I Agree. It's completely self-imposed. Lol.
possibly if you used less filler sounds and feelings
BRO TURN UP THE GAIN
I CAN’T HEAR YOU
WHAT???