Hey youtube :) Trying a bit of a different video here and I'm not sure how this video will be received. If you have time, please let me know what you think. If you don't like it, I'd love to hear why not, and if you do, what other topics would you like covered?
Great video dude! It really gives a picture of the grand scale of AoC and how it will be a living breathing world driven by economy and politics. It's an entire dimension that encompasses all aspects of the standard experience that people expect from an MMO.
Great video, somehow you didn't mention Caravans at all which is going to be one of the key endgame things. Similar to ArcheAge trade packs where this games inspiration mainly is drawn from (which is good)
@@boulderbeard1948 Wait, what? The entire trade thing I talked about was Caravans + Ships. The land transport will all be done via caravans. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining it, or mention it specifically.
the thing i love about this is that the scarcity of mats is not only aimed on ores, flowers, blocks that you can farm or process, but as well the dynamic dungeons and bosses. If I am understanding this correctly the more we are leveling the nodes the new pois rise, which will be different depending on the area, which i think will mean sujoma can have a frost dragon which drops frost fangs, but this frost dragon will be only available on 2 or 3 biomes, again creating scarcity for the other biomes which will not be able to farm that item since they do not have the content for it. And creates so many cool copiums for me :D I really hope they work on it nonstop to get everything sorted out and for a lot of people to start playing when it goes to phase 3 or comes out in few years.
It also opens up a lot of chances to “discover” new things. Today everything is known before the game even launches. Hope some stuff stay secret even if for a few days.
@@GrappLr oh yeah I really hope they leave out some stuff from alpha, betas as well so there are new biomes, professions and other big stuff to discover on full release.
This type of system is what we had in ArcheAge, it was AMAZING! This map is 50-100% larger and likely to have more to trade so really hope this works out.
There has never been such a system in ArcheAge. You're a little confused. Packs are just gold or coal. There has never been a barter on which the world has lived.
@@HardHeavySTYLE I never said AA had the same system only the same type, moving trade packs that could be stolen. BTW the guy that started AoC flat out said AoC is based on his time playing AA and said that again when talking about trade pack system. Trade packs were more then gold, also had gilda stars and rarely a event item. In late game they introduced mats that could only be found in Auroria and had to be taken back to the 'mainland' as a trade pack.
there was some kind of energy/stamina when it comes to mining materials in AA, right? Do you think it was good for game? It sounds like good restriction for too much fast booming economy and nolifers.
@@georgestain2803 "labor point" 100% bad. Mobs dropped bags of loot that used labor to open, mining, cutting trees and much more needed labor. F2p got 5 per 5 mins only when online and paid got 10 per 5 mins on or off line. It really was just a system to get people to pay for premium. ORrrrr in game buy the token that activates premium from someone that bought it with cash.
While I'm almost sure that very few people playing AoC have ever played a game called Life is Feudal: MMO. If you have, than you would have an extremely good understanding about all of this, regarding resource trading. In LiF: MMO, in order to craft certain things, you needed REGION specific resources. You couldn't craft it without that resource. So you needed to TRADE with other nations in order to upgrade your territory so to speak. This is an extremely fun and engaging format or mechanic, because it creates that incentive for PvP. The caravan system for transporting large quantities of resources for crafting or cargo for making money, on top of the size and scope of AoC. Yes, AoC is going to be by far the most sophisticated and majestic PvX MMO to ever grace the genre.
@@GrappLr It is definitely in there, no need to hope. In fact I think biomes will be more diverse than you put in the video There will be different resources for every crafting professions with different bonuses, even nodes may have different buildings available or different bonuses. This is going to be a MMO4x, as well as a MMORPG. And don't even start to get into POIs that lie between two biomes!
I love these videos! I'm a long time WoW player and I can't get enough of AoC content. I hope my life is stabilised by the time it comes out so I'll have time to play too!
If the internet is to be believed, you have time to find a wife, marry, have kids, put them through college, and by that point, Steven will bless our retirement homes with AoC the game we've been waiting for all along.
Hey dude, goto make a long ass comment but since we watched literally 15+ hours of your AoC livestream content in the past 3 days we felt olbiged to write some thoughts lol So: My gf got a super early AoC Alpha key from her dad, a part time game tester, in 2016 (wtf right) and after watching her play last weekend I dived deep into the game as well watching your gameplay streams and Q&A session and also playing a bit on her account - and DAMN, this game looks immensely promosing and Im super impressed by basically everything about that Alpha, the Devs and the Publisher (who actually all play their own game, when did that last happen) and their vision. Trying to keep this short, but here are a few thoughts and ideas about the endgame as well as general ideas: - a big part of the endgame that nobody seems to be talking much about yet is the whole housing aspect of AoC that is about to come in Phases 2-3 I guess. the fact that you can own houses, appartments and even Freeholds outside of the cities where you can grow stuff, breed mounts or even run an inn where players can meet is a very unique and motivating part of "the endgame", especially for PVE enjoyers - the idea to give each AoC server its own Game Master or Admin to keep things in order and help players out is amazing. this already worked amazingly in Ultima Online back in the 90s where the GM could temporarily throw cheaters or wrongdoers into an ingame jail where players could visit them, throw tomatoes and win some of their gear in an auction (lol!). a little sign on the jail cell gave information about the name and violation the respective inmates have commited. an hilarious and great idea that could come back with GMs in Ashes, would love to see it! - another thing Ashes might benefit highly from could be an ingame VOIP within your own party of 8 players. meet a random in the wild? just group up and start chatting, no exchange of Discord etc required. this could also lower the entry barriers for new players, make group play more coordinated and would motivate lone wolves like myself a lot to become a bit more extroverted - Ashes already has probably the best monster diversity Ive ever seen in an Alpha (at least since the PoE Alpha) and it's only the first of many bioms to come, hence I'd LOVE if they implemented a skill that can revive those monsters to fight on your side, similar to Spectres in PoE (= summoning a weaker version of a monster from the world to follow you and fight on your side, using its unique set of skills). might be a performance issue tho due to large scale battles and pvp, but they could be PVE only support to start off - I celebrate that there is no fast travel, it makes the world so much more interesting. I only think that the current "events" are a bit static and predictable. additionally I'd love to see random, small events you can stumble upon when traveling thought the world (similar to Witcher or Skyrim, where small random events that might take 2-3 minutes to take part in made traveling by mount or foot even more interesting) - having them implement NPCs which use AI and are able to response to individual questions by players (like "hey, where can I buy Greatswords?" or "which is the most populated node in this side of the world?") would be NUTS. that might be the single most innovative thing in MMOs or even gaming in general to come in the future, and Ashes could be one of the first game to use AI in an open world sandbox environment Ok that's definitely a long ass comment but as you can see we're pretty enthousiastic about the game already and a large part of that is due to your streams and vids, so kudos Exile, keep up the good work!
Well it certainly was a long comment, but a good read nonetheless. Absolutely agree with you. There is a ton of potential. I’m not celebrating yet as there’s still a long way to go, but I hope they get there. I might have to consider doing a vid on the PVE endgame, and what people have to look forward to in that regard.
It might not even be that long of a wait if we're lucky. Once they have their networking and server side process running smoothly, and the Riverlands themselves feel like a good, complete biome, expanding to more biomes is the easier part.
@@GrappLr i hope so because quite franky we all desperate for a good mmo to finally work out and especially once that isnt from KR where we run constantly behind KR patches. Thank you for your effort to make this video and i hope you will do more of this kind!
You explained it efficiently and clearly, yes it is already confirmed that the biomes will have different resources and exclusive content depending on the server, because if a certain node reach max level in a server it will unlock new end game content there, other regions will remain in wilderness state and never unlock such content. I would like you to make a video about the 64 archetypes that will be implemented, before some people believed it would remain only as flavour, but in recent interviews Steven keep letting we know that some skills will change 90% from the base skill, other 50,30%... I dont believe they will all be balanced in a 1v1 but in a 8v8 can be possible, such as soraka in league she's kinda useless against a ADC or assassin but can be good in a tf. Great video (sorry for broken English, I'm russian)
I was already excited for guild and node politics, all that stuff, but I never really thought about how trade would change the state of the world. I'm even more excited now
Great video for understanding big picture potential. Theres really no reason that basil, oak trees, western larch or any material found right now needs to be equally spread throughout the biome. they absolutely should concentrate spawns to certain nodes. Local trade/politics is just as important as world trade/politics.
Awesome content. I really enjoyed it because you make it easy for people to understand what Ashes really might become. Though, I was hoping you would talk about tier 6 nodes and how that might also effect the world.
I have a problem with over explaining sometimes and going off topic, so have been trying to stick to one theme at a time. I feel bad for my editor sometimes haha!
An important part for sandbox gameplay to happen is that the nodes also need to be unique in their setup. Currently all nodes are setup the same way. I am not talking about the visuals here. The buildings are also set up similarly. But for the game to really cool all nodes should be different in design. There is so much potential here to design some cool themes. This will help massivly with the identity of each node which is important imo. If all the nodes are just similar with just different prices of stuff they simply become a entry in a spreadsheet and loyalty is less string. But if ever node is unique in its design then some players really like a specific node and they want to see it in its biggest level. I can already envision that nodes with ports will fund their own navy to protect their incoming shipments. Each node funding multiple ships which combine together into a navy alliance. Some Ideas I wrote last year: - An Island Node. The whole node is surrounded by water. - A Mountain node. A node that can be seen far and wide presiding on top of a hill or mountain. - A Gate Node at a Cliff side with a wide open field in front of it. This node literally has a gate in it that bars enemies from not having to take loong route around the mountain range - A canyon node. Similar to the Gate Node it lies within a valley surrounded by mountains or is tugged tight into a canyon. - A Dynamic Node. Depending on the main occupying race it completely changes its design and the surrounding area. Elves may live within tree houses and the node is surrounded by forst. Humans may have large fields around it. Dwarfs may actually build underground here with the landscape above not even indicating a city underneath except for the occasional small guard post building made of stone that is also an entrance. - A Floating Island Node. This Node is literally on a floating island with bridges going across to it which increase in size according to the node level. Extra Idea for it. It sits on top of a active volcano. - An underground upside down Node. A node which entrances literally twist around and the city being upside down on a cave ceiling (and the gravity obviously working upwards not downwards.) - A ship node. A scientific coastal metropolis can create this node if none exist in the world. It requires gigantic amount of resources (We're talking an Event of the Size of the Gates of Anqirai in WoW) likely taking months to do. This node would be a platform of the size of a metropolis that would be able to sail the seas of verra. Slowly. Very slowly. It would be visible at all times on the map and effectively be the biggest caravan and siege weapon (for coastal nodes) of the whole game. Destroying the node would require a rebuilt of the whole node. Any scientific coastal metropolis can start to build such a node but finishing it needs a component that only exist once per server and cannot be destroyed. This item is so valuable and so rare that factions will literally go to war with each other to gain it. One of the few items with the description "Server Unique". - A spire node. A vertical node. A Tower that grows larger and larger with each stage. It has a wide food and the mayors office on top. In its metropolis stage it is the highest point in verra. Depending on race it can also be a tree or a biiig rock with holes in it. - An underwater node under a dome of magic. The current design already considers underground nodes. Whether or not its water or rock surrounding doesn't really matter that much, or? - A ruin Node. The node starts out with a metropolis of ruins. The progress rebuilds the node. If its destroyed it goes back to its original stage. Ashes to Ashes. Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
The nodes can be vastly different though. The buildings they have are chosen by the mayor, as are the upgrades and passives. Node aesthetics are based on prominent race. Most nodes can not reach level 6. And there are many different government forms, not just democratic nodes. I think you’ll be quite happy with the diversity.
@@GrappLr I get that they will have different buildings chosen by players and potentially different looks based on races. But it would be way cooler if intepid also elevated them by having different themes like I described in my original comment. They shouldn't be all just put in a 2km square on some patch of land and some of them may have a port. Each Node should be unique in its setup. This way some servers will not have the for example big node on top of a mountain or lodged into a cliff because some other node was chosen to be T6. This would not necessarily require them to make unique buildings for each node. A smith building can look the same based on the race for every node. It would require to have some unique buildings based on the location maybe. But it would mostly be map topography design and placement of the buildings
Great video, on an aside, I would say the node vassalage system will also be a second though not independent endgame gameplay loop. I think nodes having to vassalize to expand will probably surprise people with how much it effects them, atleast through the first year or so until server control stabilizes amongst the strongest.
I think to balance things out there should be like a requirement for every node to bring some 3 ANY other biom items. So specific node will have option to choose which three ingredients they will try to transport. It will reduce the sniping so other node can't progress because of snipers and also will give options to make alliances etc. If they will hard lock that node in desert needs ALWAYS the same 3-4 items from specific regions it will be bad.
Wonder if you can answer a few questions since you tested and the theme of the video is end-game. 1) How much resources are needed to currently max out your chosen node with all buildings, upgrades etc and how fast was this done? Was this done within the first weekend easily or not even close? How much resource demand is upkeep? In summary what is the total 3 day demand per node as well as potential 6 day( second weekend) and so on if applicable? 2)What demand does the current cap tier of Journeyman artisan professions create and are the items even relevant i.e BiS armor / weapons or are these products unrelated to gearing? 3)Were all 3 world bosses put on farm by at least the leading guilds? (I know people were able to push at least to lvl20 last I checked and they had previously downed them at around lvl22) 4)If your chosen node was maxed, were all others done so in an equal manner. Summary: I can't answer these questions as I didn't play or see enough footage to do so. a) If the demand I mention was i.e only a third of the resources generated per day around a node then we obviously hit a wall in the current phase 1 "End-Game" in regards to pushing / maintaining the village nodes and your points stand. b)If the crafting systems are still scuffed or obtaining BiS or near BiS gear (for lvl 25) through these systems isn't viable then again your points stand. c)3 world bosses and 1 Grand Dungeon perhaps can't really be argued as enough content to contribute to "End-Game." (This isn't really a complaint as it's enough to continue stress testing said content.) d)If all 5 nodes were maxed and maintained easily then I 100% agree you are sadly left twiddling your thumbs. If 1 or more nodes were not then I would argue that there IS still demand to bring goods from outside areas especially if they receive large travel multipliers. Thanks to anyone able to answer even one of the above.
1. Never really participated much in mayoral activities, can't tell you much about this. Also, nodes are limited to how far they can level up. 2. At the current cap, you can still craft quite good armor/gear. But you need to get the recipe drops in many cases. And drops from world bosses are probably BiS atm. 3. Wouldn't say "put on farm". They're inneficient in terms of leveling speed. I think there was a failed attempt on the dragon, other bosses I think were done. 4. Yeah, because nodes are limited in max level.
In my personal experience the large prices of goods found far away in large quantities will be heavily undermined by bots. It happend in every MMORPG and there is no reason to think this time will be different.
Well i think it will be different because the scale is enourmous and there is no way bots will be able to beat people guild when they enter the sea which is 100 oercent pvp all tbe time
@@MrSzaman12 they showed in their server meshing stream one of her tools for the game called "eye of shol" that keep a track on everything in the maps. Also they said they have a track on items ID and how they got obtained.
@@-Bleriot- I think also that resources genuinely spawn randomly, as will mobs that cant be soloed. A true bot is going to have a hard time finding and gathering without dying, particularly if they do not show up on the map. I think they also have trick in the game with node currency that is going to make unbalanced trading easy to spot, and also make actual gold selling impossible; all concealed behind node currencies.
The current map size is, at most, 10% of the intended map size at launch. The current player cap is 30% of the intended player cap at launch. That is an indication server issues will probably be rare and also that they might be able to increase the player capacity per server, which would be cool.
They have gone on record saying that the map as a whole will be 1200km squared(including oceans but not including the underrealm in that number) I am fairly certain, and we are currently at 55km squared. This means it is actually at minimum just under 5% of the map for launch, which is actually insane...
@@fenrirsilver6441 exactly, that's why I said "at most 10% of the intended map size". But, of course, to be fair land mass is more important than bodies of water. Anyway, very exciting and I see a lot of potential.
@@baska- While I agree mostly for "content", that the sea is likely to be not as important as the land, when talking sheer scale of the world and travel, its arguably more important. For example, take traversing from one side of a single continent to another, there will be 3 different paths to consider: Surface, Oceans, or Underrealm. If we think of Surface vs Oceans, there will be a lot fewer obsticles in the way if we go through the oceans, and since we wouldn't be moving through so many nodes, the ship should go more unnoticed than a caravan, relatively speaking. As far as Underrealm, we have no clue how big that is gonna be yet, but I would guess it may have even more obstacles than the surface, while maybe less nodes(I don't know). So the underealm may take more time than the Oceans, but since its caravans instead of ships it might be cheaper, and it could still go unnoticed.
@@fenrirsilver6441 oh no, I wasn't talking about content or risk v. reward or any other cool mechanics they have planned, I was simply implying that land mass are much easier to traverse, have low or no cost of entry and it's probably where most of the players will be most of the time ("most" instead of "all" is important here). I agree with what you said, I was just trying to emphasize that, if everything goes well, 5~10% of the intended map (which is currently mostly land) can hold 30% of the intended server capacity, which can be interpreted in many different exciting ways!
@@baska- Especially since right now we only have one starting zone, but I think there will be 4-5 of them later? So, when people go in for the first time, after we get more different starts, we might not have last weekend's lionhold situation. So, even from the beginning people will be more or less split. I do not know how even it will be split, but even if its an even split on launch, and then people disperse into their own nodes and guilds in different biomes. While such an area can hold 30%, only the starting zones will *have* to hold that much. I guess I would kind of agree on your point though that most people would be on land, most likely anyway. Unless the seas themselves prove to be very indepth, sort of like how whole other games use the seas, and people play them. If that doesn't end up being the case though, I think the seas will mostly be littered with just PvPers and Trade routes.
actually this is what archeage did, trade runs (caravan) pirating , naval combat, aoc is heavely inspired by archeage , its sad that archeage itself destroy themselves
My concern is something very deep in design. MMOs using most damage dealt and no encounter locking have a core design that supports zerging and number of people mattering the most. This has a giant effect on endgame of open world content where the biggest guilds get bigger and it becomes join them or lose/quit or the devs pushing into instanced content. This makes the shelf live of endgame content very short once the biggest group is established. Good luck overcoming all that but I feel most of these mmos share the same fate because of these mechanics.
This is largely true, yes. I think the important aspect to consider as a Dev in this case would be to ensure that open world bosses are not the end all be all of gear, and that you don't need to kill them to have an avenue to end game BiS gear. So yeah, you wanna be a guild that dominates world bossing? Fine. Other smaller guilds have very lucrative things to do as well that are not necessarily world bossing. The only time it's a real issue is when a big guild can lock out other guilds from progression.
That's the plan for now, as long as the game has content to make :) Anything specific you'd like to see covered? It's so early on, hard to find content to talk about.
Not a backer just yet but i think this game has potential for a very unique and very cool economy, it'll be interesting to see how the market shapes up and evolves over time along with the political implications server to server.
You're right, but how the world plays out will seriously depend on what the team puts in the game. How many ports does each area have, and if they are complex enough to differentiate between shallow and deep water ports. Cargo vs combat vessels. the game balance will change drastically based on how much detail they put into the system. And thats just thinking about maritime trade.
Agreed, and it's a lot of work for the devs. I'm mostly contemplating on what it will be like if they manage to pull it off successfully, the vision itself, is what I'm most attracted to as a gamer.
My assumption is that for rn, iron/oak/cotton/etcetc should probably be in most places to support crafting while leveling and and to act as supplemental mats for end game crafting. End game i'm thinking theyll add regional specific specialty mats which will be a much larger part of trade.
Hardest thing is to make the perfect balance of not too many materials needed to make it annoying, but not too few where everything feels useless. Hard to find the balance. And mainly, to have a CONSTANT leak of all kidn of materials aswell, even after nodes are fully developed.
Well that might be some of the endgame if everything goes well. But that will only work if a balance occurs. If some aggressive fractions becomes to powerful and dominants all other it becomes boring. If being a pirate is very lucrative trading via boat will stop. If it is to easy to defend towards pirates, piracy will completely stop. These systems AoC plans to implement are very complex and hard to predict how such a game world will develop. We will see.
In the same way you say these things will stop, they can at the same % chance continue and flourish. So kind of useless to think of it this way imo. You also have to factor in that the devs control the balancing, so it's more likely that these things will become balanced in time either way
@@GrappLr Well, till all nodes are maxed, right? What then? I just wanted to say that what you described in this video is maybe the plan how they want it to work, but it is not easy at all. But maybe they are smart enough to plan and patch it so it stays in balance. Lets hope!
@@nottog Yes sure, they have to balance it. I did not say it won't work. I am just saying it is not easy and it needs to be balanced/patched continuously, most likely.
I’m sure people will try to spreadsheet the fun out of this game asap and push for a “node rotation so people can get what they need” but I’m hoping the RPers will shut that down and force a war haha
Without the ability to circumnavigate, those ocean journeys from Sujoma to say Peligora might be a slog, depending on boat speed. Yes, this is me adding a comment to help your engagement 😂
I feel like the population now is good for the Riverlands but when the entire world opens up I feel like it's gonna be pretty barren if they don't allow more people on the server
I don't understand why they gonna launch tropics as one of the first terrains if we don't have any kind of boats in the game. According to the map it should be plenty to swim around and without aquatic mounts and boats it will be pain in the ass.
@@GrappLr exactly just set up shop next to a caravansary and watch the gold pour in traders gotta get their product around somehow I also sold caravans during a2 B)
I've heard mixed things. Originally there were going to be like 3-4 spawn points, and it was random. Then I heard that you could choose where you spawn out of those points. Then I heard that maybe some may be racially dependent. Who knows at this point, I've heard a lot of different stories haha!
Currently it's planned for all races to be able to start from any divine gateway. Players come to Verra from another world, Sanctus to help build it up and prepare for the invasion of The Ancients and The Others. ashesofcreation.wiki/Divine_gateways
Sounds like EVE online in a fantasy world. This will require extensive community produced trade websites, tools, realtime data, spreadsheets and drama.
See, I actually don't buy this argument. I don't value a game based on how fast I progress. I value a game based on how fun it is to play. If I play 3 hours a week, am I having fun, even if it's very slow progress? If the answer is yes, then good, it's a success. Faster progress does not mean more fun. Some people took months to hit level 60 in Classic WoW, and had a blast the entire time.
@@GrappLr That is true, and I agree with you, I've always loved slow paced games. This is more about me specifically because I've been struggling with my gaming time, I'm planning to get married and buy a house big enough for a kid, so as you can imagine it's been hard to not overthink any spare time as 'not making money'. The game seems dope tho, exactly the kind of game I would get obsessed in my golden gaming years. I like that you pivoted into it, been following you since the beginning of LoR
This game needs work... but what it aims to do and from the little that I've experienced... it is looking/feeling outstanding in terms of the systems and just the feel of everything having weight...
The casual player who has 1-2 hours before work - gets half way to said node - killed 4x, logs off. Nice next pilgrimage tomorrow. I do think it all sounds dope but worried for the casual player if the walking time's are simply that long
Cool video. I'm really hyped for ashes but I seen alot of people hyping over this map (like on pirategames stream) and while it is exciting, its literally only a 2d concept art. Its taken them 8 years to make a SINGLE incomplete biome. We'll see how patches go over alpha phases, but to me its optimistic to think they will have SINGLE continent within the next 3 years, anyone who thinks this whole map is gone be done soon is smoking pure copium.
Fair. I could be wrong, but I thinking churning out more Biomes isn’t that hard. The hard part is getting the infrastructure down for networking, combat, etc. Once all that is in a good spot, I expect to see an expansion of terrain to be very fast.
Isn't it easier to create terrain on the fly with UE5 from what i've seen at least? You will handcraft it after the foundations have been generated by the engine. They plan to have 5 zones ready by... May for Phase 3. I don't expect them to finish all zones by release, maybe they'll release them as an expansion or we'll get surprised, but I won't cope too much. The argument with "its been 8 years in development" doesn't mean much when 5 years ago they were 10-20 people at best, now they're 200 people.
@@GrappLr I agree thats the harder part, but shouldnt it be different teams? A network engineer isnt doing level design or vice versa. Maybe there is alot more done on other biomes behind scenes and it will be patched in quickly, but the realist in me thinks not otherwise when they done preview build streams it wouldnt be all riverlands.
@@fallenhonor4988 I think definitely be quicker than 8 years per biome, like you said they have ramped up the team so we'll have to wait and see. But for me talking about this concept art map as its going to be complete in the next decade is crazy. I think the game could launch with the west continent (~7 biomes) and be decent but still think thats years away.
I almost delved into a side topic of how PVE professions will affect all of this, but it was kind of hard to verbalize, and secondly, I wanted to focus on one thing for the video. Is there anything more specific you'd like for me to cover when it comes to PVE professions?
So you can attack caravans and steal thing from them Albion style ? Because if not people will definitely be making those trips on a scale, and market won't be that different imo.
You absolutely can. All caravans and ships are attackable and lootable, with no PvP penalty (there are severe PvP penalties in most of the world for non consensual PvP).
First of all, all BiS gear is crafted. Secondly, gear repair requires not just gold, but can require resources as well. Repair kits will be craft able for example as well.
@@GrappLr So tiered repair kits? I felt Albion sustained so well is because gears are consumables, it feels weird if you don't drop your gears on death but having legendary gear & going through a time that you are unable to use it because you can't find legendary repair kits are not bad as well
I don't get to keep up with ashes very much is there I mean I could just go look but I'm just going to ask because it adds a commented that helps with algorithms. Is there supposed to be some sort of end game for PVE cuz I'm not really a PVP fan in MMOs at least not like open world PVP and even like Battlegrounds and stuff for Wow or the worldview worldview world in Guild Wars 2 it just wasn't something I enjoyed a whole lot probably cuz I was really really bad at it and the fact that Guild Wars 2 didn't have a real good PVE system setup and I still haven't really forgiven or wanted to give blizzard any of my money after the crap they went through just you know I find myself wanting an MMO and I don't really want to play Final Fantasy XIV as great as I do think the game is there's something about it that was I don't know
The concept itself sounds fun, but if the top 10 guilds ally with each other and just smash everyone else, then it's not really that fun. Hopefully it's not going to fall victim to sweatlords zerging up to kill everyone one by one and keep them weak.
All these trading nodes have been already in Archeage, it fill be fun for the 1-st time. Than it will become boring runnig miles through the map.. People just hyping the game where currently nothing to do except grinding mobs
This is far from the most ambitious. This is a remixed Archeage. Now Quinfall is ambitious. It's AI generated and human monitored. Very buggy and early...but that's a task. Not even the devs know how the game will turn out..Now that's ambitious 😂
I appreciate the video...but your breakdown is the exact reason I will not be playing this game and why it will fail. The devs in this game are from MMO's that started 15-20 years ago. The players who will be in this world are not from that era and they do not care about the world that Ashes is trying to create. Players today want instant gratification...not a grind or a full time game. They will just want to log in, pvp, raid, do a couple of dailies and log off. They do not want to be a uber driver or truck transporter for 3-4 hours a day. What you are going to have is a few whales/no-life players/one-two major guilds have the monopoly on the market and everyone else trying to survive off of it. Also, no one ...wants to take 20 minutes to go from one side of the zone to the other, let alone an hour to get from one major area to another. It sounds cool on paper, but when 2/3rds of your player base leaves after 2-3 months...you will realize you messed up and there will be no fixing it at that point.
See, similar was said about games like Baldur's Gate. Dead game type, no action combat, all turn based, can't work, too niche. Look what happened. I think you'll be surprised.
This game will die super fast just like every PvP MMO. With a world this big, zones will really be empty once the 30 - 60 day massive exodus hits. Games that rely on PvP all day get extremely boring and spiral out of control as players leave. This is why these games fail because players don't want to PvP 24/7. Also to note based on lots of people's comments, griefing is going to be hell in this game for players trying to level weeks after a server launches since XP seems horrendous and grouping is pretty much required. Good luck finding people to actually group with at lower levels.
The game is far too big for this to be the case. It's not even close. It would take a guild with like literally 20k+ members to control an entire server, across all nodes. Will it happen? Maybe on one or two servers. But it'll be damn rare.
I had the thought, because of how big the game is in a2 I could easily understand after launch, a good number of players will NEVER go to to half of the map. I said it will feel like a server will effectively have 4 separate "servers" where people are able to overlap but its a world you may never know. (this is not a server meshing comment but more of thinking how "servers" work in games like wow/new world).
I think they need to shuffle some resources around the map tbh, make 1 node have more metal than the rest another gets more gem, another gets more stone, another with more plants and the last gets more animals this will devlope a resource movement loop between nodes i reckon
The game it's big but far from be as detailed as the current new world, actually feels very disappointing for almost 10 years development, it's far from what they have shown in the livestreams and honestly the game feels very indie... Being in ''alpha'' it's not an excuse at all, just look the current state and think how long it will take to get released... I would give more or less 2-3 years for what Steven has being saying LMAO and I bought the game in 2018... Honestly the game looks awful, no in-game direction at all, I won't be playing it anymore, and surely when it get's more ''polished'' I will be playing other games that are coming out in 2025 like Archeage Chronicles that looks 100% better and took much less time to be made than Ashes... Even thought some might say the games will have different approaches, but when I bought Ashes Steven wanted to make a better Archeage, and that was my reason to buy it, and guess what? It's coming next year and looks 1000% better than Ashes... Feels like I just wasted my money and time
Look; end of the day, if a better game comes out, I’ll be a happy man, I’ll play that too! I have no hidden agenda in AoC, I just like good games. Bring on all the MMOs.
I think your looking at it wrong. Because you can't see it, does not mean there is not significant progress in it. They will want the player base to focus their energy on a particular aspect of the game that the Devs want to focus on. When they are happy with the put come of the focus, then they can add in more complexity, or remove the previous focus and add another area of focus. So you might think things are getting added and removed randomly, when in actual fact they are focussing on one thing at a time. At the same time they need it to be fun and feel like your not wasting your time.
There ZERO chance there plan will come as they envision, they would need to increase current dev size by 20x and it would still take at minimum 10+ years base on what they currently show. There used to be game with such caravan system forgot name.....what players did was make ALTs fir caravan and loot there own stuff for rewards.
I didn't like it at all, playing one hour and uninstalled the game, sometimes feels like the content creators are hyping their own delusion and making other people fall in that trap
Well, it's a grindy, slightly slower, group-focused MMO. That won't appeal to everyone. And on top of that, it's very early in development -- technically the game isn't even in a "come play it" state yet, the game instead is in a "you're welcome to come test a very early build" stage.
GrappLr explains efficient market theory
:)
Hey youtube :) Trying a bit of a different video here and I'm not sure how this video will be received. If you have time, please let me know what you think. If you don't like it, I'd love to hear why not, and if you do, what other topics would you like covered?
Great video dude! It really gives a picture of the grand scale of AoC and how it will be a living breathing world driven by economy and politics. It's an entire dimension that encompasses all aspects of the standard experience that people expect from an MMO.
fantastic video, this will help people to see further than 2 feet in front of their eyes... 👍
Great video, somehow you didn't mention Caravans at all which is going to be one of the key endgame things. Similar to ArcheAge trade packs where this games inspiration mainly is drawn from (which is good)
@@boulderbeard1948 Wait, what? The entire trade thing I talked about was Caravans + Ships. The land transport will all be done via caravans. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining it, or mention it specifically.
@@boulderbeard1948 hahaha he was even drawing little points on the map when referring to caravans... 🤣🤣🤣
I think you nailed what their goal is, risk vs rewards. I played the alpha the past weekend, it was ok overall but it needs crazy work imo
Ashes dev here, enjoying your content - keep it up. Appreciated your input during the ranger discord feedback session too.
Awesome to hear! That was a fun panel. If there are ever any more, I'd always love to participate and give any feedback I can think of.
the thing i love about this is that the scarcity of mats is not only aimed on ores, flowers, blocks that you can farm or process, but as well the dynamic dungeons and bosses. If I am understanding this correctly the more we are leveling the nodes the new pois rise, which will be different depending on the area, which i think will mean sujoma can have a frost dragon which drops frost fangs, but this frost dragon will be only available on 2 or 3 biomes, again creating scarcity for the other biomes which will not be able to farm that item since they do not have the content for it. And creates so many cool copiums for me :D I really hope they work on it nonstop to get everything sorted out and for a lot of people to start playing when it goes to phase 3 or comes out in few years.
It also opens up a lot of chances to “discover” new things. Today everything is known before the game even launches. Hope some stuff stay secret even if for a few days.
@@GrappLr oh yeah I really hope they leave out some stuff from alpha, betas as well so there are new biomes, professions and other big stuff to discover on full release.
This type of system is what we had in ArcheAge, it was AMAZING! This map is 50-100% larger and likely to have more to trade so really hope this works out.
There has never been such a system in ArcheAge. You're a little confused. Packs are just gold or coal. There has never been a barter on which the world has lived.
@@HardHeavySTYLE I never said AA had the same system only the same type, moving trade packs that could be stolen. BTW the guy that started AoC flat out said AoC is based on his time playing AA and said that again when talking about trade pack system. Trade packs were more then gold, also had gilda stars and rarely a event item. In late game they introduced mats that could only be found in Auroria and had to be taken back to the 'mainland' as a trade pack.
Hopefully AoC does it way better and sets a new standard for trade runs in the genre
there was some kind of energy/stamina when it comes to mining materials in AA, right? Do you think it was good for game? It sounds like good restriction for too much fast booming economy and nolifers.
@@georgestain2803 "labor point" 100% bad. Mobs dropped bags of loot that used labor to open, mining, cutting trees and much more needed labor. F2p got 5 per 5 mins only when online and paid got 10 per 5 mins on or off line. It really was just a system to get people to pay for premium. ORrrrr in game buy the token that activates premium from someone that bought it with cash.
While I'm almost sure that very few people playing AoC have ever played a game called Life is Feudal: MMO. If you have, than you would have an extremely good understanding about all of this, regarding resource trading. In LiF: MMO, in order to craft certain things, you needed REGION specific resources. You couldn't craft it without that resource. So you needed to TRADE with other nations in order to upgrade your territory so to speak. This is an extremely fun and engaging format or mechanic, because it creates that incentive for PvP. The caravan system for transporting large quantities of resources for crafting or cargo for making money, on top of the size and scope of AoC. Yes, AoC is going to be by far the most sophisticated and majestic PvX MMO to ever grace the genre.
This is what we are all hoping for. Sadly never played life is feudal, sounds fun!
Tbh, that sounds very similar to Eve Online.
@@GrappLr It is definitely in there, no need to hope. In fact I think biomes will be more diverse than you put in the video There will be different resources for every crafting professions with different bonuses, even nodes may have different buildings available or different bonuses. This is going to be a MMO4x, as well as a MMORPG. And don't even start to get into POIs that lie between two biomes!
It’s cool to see some videos of you with different games, specially aoc at the moment !
Thanks Gabriel!
I love these videos! I'm a long time WoW player and I can't get enough of AoC content. I hope my life is stabilised by the time it comes out so I'll have time to play too!
If the internet is to be believed, you have time to find a wife, marry, have kids, put them through college, and by that point, Steven will bless our retirement homes with AoC the game we've been waiting for all along.
Hey dude, goto make a long ass comment but since we watched literally 15+ hours of your AoC livestream content in the past 3 days we felt olbiged to write some thoughts lol
So: My gf got a super early AoC Alpha key from her dad, a part time game tester, in 2016 (wtf right) and after watching her play last weekend I dived deep into the game as well watching your gameplay streams and Q&A session and also playing a bit on her account - and DAMN, this game looks immensely promosing and Im super impressed by basically everything about that Alpha, the Devs and the Publisher (who actually all play their own game, when did that last happen) and their vision.
Trying to keep this short, but here are a few thoughts and ideas about the endgame as well as general ideas:
- a big part of the endgame that nobody seems to be talking much about yet is the whole housing aspect of AoC that is about to come in Phases 2-3 I guess. the fact that you can own houses, appartments and even Freeholds outside of the cities where you can grow stuff, breed mounts or even run an inn where players can meet is a very unique and motivating part of "the endgame", especially for PVE enjoyers
- the idea to give each AoC server its own Game Master or Admin to keep things in order and help players out is amazing. this already worked amazingly in Ultima Online back in the 90s where the GM could temporarily throw cheaters or wrongdoers into an ingame jail where players could visit them, throw tomatoes and win some of their gear in an auction (lol!). a little sign on the jail cell gave information about the name and violation the respective inmates have commited. an hilarious and great idea that could come back with GMs in Ashes, would love to see it!
- another thing Ashes might benefit highly from could be an ingame VOIP within your own party of 8 players. meet a random in the wild? just group up and start chatting, no exchange of Discord etc required. this could also lower the entry barriers for new players, make group play more coordinated and would motivate lone wolves like myself a lot to become a bit more extroverted
- Ashes already has probably the best monster diversity Ive ever seen in an Alpha (at least since the PoE Alpha) and it's only the first of many bioms to come, hence I'd LOVE if they implemented a skill that can revive those monsters to fight on your side, similar to Spectres in PoE (= summoning a weaker version of a monster from the world to follow you and fight on your side, using its unique set of skills). might be a performance issue tho due to large scale battles and pvp, but they could be PVE only support to start off
- I celebrate that there is no fast travel, it makes the world so much more interesting. I only think that the current "events" are a bit static and predictable. additionally I'd love to see random, small events you can stumble upon when traveling thought the world (similar to Witcher or Skyrim, where small random events that might take 2-3 minutes to take part in made traveling by mount or foot even more interesting)
- having them implement NPCs which use AI and are able to response to individual questions by players (like "hey, where can I buy Greatswords?" or "which is the most populated node in this side of the world?") would be NUTS. that might be the single most innovative thing in MMOs or even gaming in general to come in the future, and Ashes could be one of the first game to use AI in an open world sandbox environment
Ok that's definitely a long ass comment but as you can see we're pretty enthousiastic about the game already and a large part of that is due to your streams and vids, so kudos Exile, keep up the good work!
Well it certainly was a long comment, but a good read nonetheless. Absolutely agree with you. There is a ton of potential. I’m not celebrating yet as there’s still a long way to go, but I hope they get there.
I might have to consider doing a vid on the PVE endgame, and what people have to look forward to in that regard.
Very good video! Well put. I've enjoyed finding your ashes content and look forward to watching more!
Thank you.
what a great video you did amazing and i think this kind of video opens eyes for many to see the bigger picture even tho it might be a long time wait
It might not even be that long of a wait if we're lucky. Once they have their networking and server side process running smoothly, and the Riverlands themselves feel like a good, complete biome, expanding to more biomes is the easier part.
@@GrappLr i hope so because quite franky we all desperate for a good mmo to finally work out and especially once that isnt from KR where we run constantly behind KR patches. Thank you for your effort to make this video and i hope you will do more of this kind!
Amazing video man. You and the background music let my imagination flow.
I was already excited about this game, now I'm way more excited and I think you're very right
I’ve been excited for a long time now!
You explained it efficiently and clearly, yes it is already confirmed that the biomes will have different resources and exclusive content depending on the server, because if a certain node reach max level in a server it will unlock new end game content there, other regions will remain in wilderness state and never unlock such content. I would like you to make a video about the 64 archetypes that will be implemented, before some people believed it would remain only as flavour, but in recent interviews Steven keep letting we know that some skills will change 90% from the base skill, other 50,30%... I dont believe they will all be balanced in a 1v1 but in a 8v8 can be possible, such as soraka in league she's kinda useless against a ADC or assassin but can be good in a tf. Great video (sorry for broken English, I'm russian)
I'd love to do it, but at the moment, we have almost no info on what augments will look like. It would be pure speculation.
I was already excited for guild and node politics, all that stuff, but I never really thought about how trade would change the state of the world. I'm even more excited now
Great video for understanding big picture potential. Theres really no reason that basil, oak trees, western larch or any material found right now needs to be equally spread throughout the biome. they absolutely should concentrate spawns to certain nodes. Local trade/politics is just as important as world trade/politics.
Awesome content. I really enjoyed it because you make it easy for people to understand what Ashes really might become. Though, I was hoping you would talk about tier 6 nodes and how that might also effect the world.
I have a problem with over explaining sometimes and going off topic, so have been trying to stick to one theme at a time. I feel bad for my editor sometimes haha!
An important part for sandbox gameplay to happen is that the nodes also need to be unique in their setup. Currently all nodes are setup the same way. I am not talking about the visuals here. The buildings are also set up similarly. But for the game to really cool all nodes should be different in design. There is so much potential here to design some cool themes.
This will help massivly with the identity of each node which is important imo. If all the nodes are just similar with just different prices of stuff they simply become a entry in a spreadsheet and loyalty is less string. But if ever node is unique in its design then some players really like a specific node and they want to see it in its biggest level.
I can already envision that nodes with ports will fund their own navy to protect their incoming shipments. Each node funding multiple ships which combine together into a navy alliance.
Some Ideas I wrote last year:
- An Island Node. The whole node is surrounded by water.
- A Mountain node. A node that can be seen far and wide presiding on top of a hill or mountain.
- A Gate Node at a Cliff side with a wide open field in front of it. This node literally has a gate in it that bars enemies from not having to take loong route around the mountain range
- A canyon node. Similar to the Gate Node it lies within a valley surrounded by mountains or is tugged tight into a canyon.
- A Dynamic Node. Depending on the main occupying race it completely changes its design and the surrounding area. Elves may live within tree houses and the node is surrounded by forst. Humans may have large fields around it. Dwarfs may actually build underground here with the landscape above not even indicating a city underneath except for the occasional small guard post building made of stone that is also an entrance.
- A Floating Island Node. This Node is literally on a floating island with bridges going across to it which increase in size according to the node level. Extra Idea for it. It sits on top of a active volcano.
- An underground upside down Node. A node which entrances literally twist around and the city being upside down on a cave ceiling (and the gravity obviously working upwards not downwards.)
- A ship node. A scientific coastal metropolis can create this node if none exist in the world. It requires gigantic amount of resources (We're talking an Event of the Size of the Gates of Anqirai in WoW) likely taking months to do. This node would be a platform of the size of a metropolis that would be able to sail the seas of verra. Slowly. Very slowly. It would be visible at all times on the map and effectively be the biggest caravan and siege weapon (for coastal nodes) of the whole game. Destroying the node would require a rebuilt of the whole node. Any scientific coastal metropolis can start to build such a node but finishing it needs a component that only exist once per server and cannot be destroyed. This item is so valuable and so rare that factions will literally go to war with each other to gain it. One of the few items with the description "Server Unique".
- A spire node. A vertical node. A Tower that grows larger and larger with each stage. It has a wide food and the mayors office on top. In its metropolis stage it is the highest point in verra. Depending on race it can also be a tree or a biiig rock with holes in it.
- An underwater node under a dome of magic. The current design already considers underground nodes. Whether or not its water or rock surrounding doesn't really matter that much, or?
- A ruin Node. The node starts out with a metropolis of ruins. The progress rebuilds the node. If its destroyed it goes back to its original stage. Ashes to Ashes. Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
The nodes can be vastly different though. The buildings they have are chosen by the mayor, as are the upgrades and passives. Node aesthetics are based on prominent race. Most nodes can not reach level 6. And there are many different government forms, not just democratic nodes. I think you’ll be quite happy with the diversity.
@@GrappLr I get that they will have different buildings chosen by players and potentially different looks based on races. But it would be way cooler if intepid also elevated them by having different themes like I described in my original comment. They shouldn't be all just put in a 2km square on some patch of land and some of them may have a port. Each Node should be unique in its setup. This way some servers will not have the for example big node on top of a mountain or lodged into a cliff because some other node was chosen to be T6.
This would not necessarily require them to make unique buildings for each node. A smith building can look the same based on the race for every node. It would require to have some unique buildings based on the location maybe. But it would mostly be map topography design and placement of the buildings
Great video, on an aside, I would say the node vassalage system will also be a second though not independent endgame gameplay loop. I think nodes having to vassalize to expand will probably surprise people with how much it effects them, atleast through the first year or so until server control stabilizes amongst the strongest.
I agree, that’s a big one. I didn’t want to go into too many side topics as the video would be all over the place.
I think to balance things out there should be like a requirement for every node to bring some 3 ANY other biom items. So specific node will have option to choose which three ingredients they will try to transport. It will reduce the sniping so other node can't progress because of snipers and also will give options to make alliances etc. If they will hard lock that node in desert needs ALWAYS the same 3-4 items from specific regions it will be bad.
Wonder if you can answer a few questions since you tested and the theme of the video is end-game.
1) How much resources are needed to currently max out your chosen node with all buildings, upgrades etc and how fast was this done? Was this done within the first weekend easily or not even close? How much resource demand is upkeep? In summary what is the total 3 day demand per node as well as potential 6 day( second weekend) and so on if applicable?
2)What demand does the current cap tier of Journeyman artisan professions create and are the items even relevant i.e BiS armor / weapons or are these products unrelated to gearing?
3)Were all 3 world bosses put on farm by at least the leading guilds? (I know people were able to push at least to lvl20 last I checked and they had previously downed them at around lvl22)
4)If your chosen node was maxed, were all others done so in an equal manner.
Summary: I can't answer these questions as I didn't play or see enough footage to do so.
a) If the demand I mention was i.e only a third of the resources generated per day around a node then we obviously hit a wall in the current phase 1 "End-Game" in regards to pushing / maintaining the village nodes and your points stand.
b)If the crafting systems are still scuffed or obtaining BiS or near BiS gear (for lvl 25) through these systems isn't viable then again your points stand.
c)3 world bosses and 1 Grand Dungeon perhaps can't really be argued as enough content to contribute to "End-Game." (This isn't really a complaint as it's enough to continue stress testing said content.)
d)If all 5 nodes were maxed and maintained easily then I 100% agree you are sadly left twiddling your thumbs. If 1 or more nodes were not then I would argue that there IS still demand to bring goods from outside areas especially if they receive large travel multipliers.
Thanks to anyone able to answer even one of the above.
1. Never really participated much in mayoral activities, can't tell you much about this. Also, nodes are limited to how far they can level up.
2. At the current cap, you can still craft quite good armor/gear. But you need to get the recipe drops in many cases. And drops from world bosses are probably BiS atm.
3. Wouldn't say "put on farm". They're inneficient in terms of leveling speed. I think there was a failed attempt on the dragon, other bosses I think were done.
4. Yeah, because nodes are limited in max level.
In my personal experience the large prices of goods found far away in large quantities will be heavily undermined by bots. It happend in every MMORPG and there is no reason to think this time will be different.
Open PvP, sub price, and in game GMs will hopefully control it
Well i think it will be different because the scale is enourmous and there is no way bots will be able to beat people guild when they enter the sea which is 100 oercent pvp all tbe time
@@GrappLr Let's hope open PvP will be the deciding factor, because neither sub nor GMs were enough in other games, like Dofus
@@MrSzaman12 they showed in their server meshing stream one of her tools for the game called "eye of shol" that keep a track on everything in the maps. Also they said they have a track on items ID and how they got obtained.
@@-Bleriot- I think also that resources genuinely spawn randomly, as will mobs that cant be soloed. A true bot is going to have a hard time finding and gathering without dying, particularly if they do not show up on the map. I think they also have trick in the game with node currency that is going to make unbalanced trading easy to spot, and also make actual gold selling impossible; all concealed behind node currencies.
Its sad we have to wait years for this.. at least thats what we're hoping ashes of creation can achieve, hopes are high tho
Might be very playable in less than 2 years if we're lucky.
The current map size is, at most, 10% of the intended map size at launch. The current player cap is 30% of the intended player cap at launch. That is an indication server issues will probably be rare and also that they might be able to increase the player capacity per server, which would be cool.
They have gone on record saying that the map as a whole will be 1200km squared(including oceans but not including the underrealm in that number) I am fairly certain, and we are currently at 55km squared. This means it is actually at minimum just under 5% of the map for launch, which is actually insane...
@@fenrirsilver6441 exactly, that's why I said "at most 10% of the intended map size". But, of course, to be fair land mass is more important than bodies of water. Anyway, very exciting and I see a lot of potential.
@@baska- While I agree mostly for "content", that the sea is likely to be not as important as the land, when talking sheer scale of the world and travel, its arguably more important. For example, take traversing from one side of a single continent to another, there will be 3 different paths to consider: Surface, Oceans, or Underrealm. If we think of Surface vs Oceans, there will be a lot fewer obsticles in the way if we go through the oceans, and since we wouldn't be moving through so many nodes, the ship should go more unnoticed than a caravan, relatively speaking. As far as Underrealm, we have no clue how big that is gonna be yet, but I would guess it may have even more obstacles than the surface, while maybe less nodes(I don't know). So the underealm may take more time than the Oceans, but since its caravans instead of ships it might be cheaper, and it could still go unnoticed.
@@fenrirsilver6441 oh no, I wasn't talking about content or risk v. reward or any other cool mechanics they have planned, I was simply implying that land mass are much easier to traverse, have low or no cost of entry and it's probably where most of the players will be most of the time ("most" instead of "all" is important here). I agree with what you said, I was just trying to emphasize that, if everything goes well, 5~10% of the intended map (which is currently mostly land) can hold 30% of the intended server capacity, which can be interpreted in many different exciting ways!
@@baska- Especially since right now we only have one starting zone, but I think there will be 4-5 of them later? So, when people go in for the first time, after we get more different starts, we might not have last weekend's lionhold situation. So, even from the beginning people will be more or less split. I do not know how even it will be split, but even if its an even split on launch, and then people disperse into their own nodes and guilds in different biomes. While such an area can hold 30%, only the starting zones will *have* to hold that much.
I guess I would kind of agree on your point though that most people would be on land, most likely anyway. Unless the seas themselves prove to be very indepth, sort of like how whole other games use the seas, and people play them. If that doesn't end up being the case though, I think the seas will mostly be littered with just PvPers and Trade routes.
Amazing content brother, nice edits as well. New sub🤠
Welcome to the channel!
if this happens it will be one of the best games its sounds amazing
One can hope! You going to be a pirate, or a trader?
Sounds like Eve of fantasy mmos. Tbh this alone would make dynamic pvp scenarios and content. Sounds super fun and I hope this is the case.
@@GrappLr i think there is alot of different thinks you could do for instance i think it would be cool to have a guild that is bounty hunters
actually this is what archeage did, trade runs (caravan) pirating , naval combat, aoc is heavely inspired by archeage , its sad that archeage itself destroy themselves
@@0pomyronthere is going to be a bounty hunter system to hunt people with corruption as well!
5:55 the way he just put a line through the 2 to make a 4 hurts my brain and idk why.
On the other hand… you now have a new life skill!
@@GrappLr mind blown 🤯
My concern is something very deep in design. MMOs using most damage dealt and no encounter locking have a core design that supports zerging and number of people mattering the most. This has a giant effect on endgame of open world content where the biggest guilds get bigger and it becomes join them or lose/quit or the devs pushing into instanced content. This makes the shelf live of endgame content very short once the biggest group is established. Good luck overcoming all that but I feel most of these mmos share the same fate because of these mechanics.
This is largely true, yes. I think the important aspect to consider as a Dev in this case would be to ensure that open world bosses are not the end all be all of gear, and that you don't need to kill them to have an avenue to end game BiS gear. So yeah, you wanna be a guild that dominates world bossing? Fine. Other smaller guilds have very lucrative things to do as well that are not necessarily world bossing.
The only time it's a real issue is when a big guild can lock out other guilds from progression.
I dont care about this game but the music is so chill i cant quit
Great stuff! I appreciate your videos!
This is very well explained, thank you, I really enjoyed listening to you and I understand now the end game of Ashes of Creation, I’m so hyped !
Keep in mind, I took the liberty to make a few assumptions first. But it’s what I envision when I think Endgame in AoC!
Excellent video, hope you keep with AoC content
That's the plan for now, as long as the game has content to make :)
Anything specific you'd like to see covered? It's so early on, hard to find content to talk about.
Not a backer just yet but i think this game has potential for a very unique and very cool economy, it'll be interesting to see how the market shapes up and evolves over time along with the political implications server to server.
Absolutely agree.
Such a good video bro, keep it up
Appreciate it, glad you enjoyed it!
You're right, but how the world plays out will seriously depend on what the team puts in the game. How many ports does each area have, and if they are complex enough to differentiate between shallow and deep water ports. Cargo vs combat vessels. the game balance will change drastically based on how much detail they put into the system. And thats just thinking about maritime trade.
Agreed, and it's a lot of work for the devs. I'm mostly contemplating on what it will be like if they manage to pull it off successfully, the vision itself, is what I'm most attracted to as a gamer.
My assumption is that for rn, iron/oak/cotton/etcetc should probably be in most places to support crafting while leveling and and to act as supplemental mats for end game crafting. End game i'm thinking theyll add regional specific specialty mats which will be a much larger part of trade.
Nothing is set in stone yet. But I expect it’ll have a lot to do with node levels
Hardest thing is to make the perfect balance of not too many materials needed to make it annoying, but not too few where everything feels useless. Hard to find the balance. And mainly, to have a CONSTANT leak of all kidn of materials aswell, even after nodes are fully developed.
It's very easy to find a balance when you have a tool to remove resource respawn))
That's why A2 is needed to test all this in real live conditions.
Let’s hope they find the balance then.
Another great video all sounds very interesting i enjoyed this weekend looking forward to more to see how much the game can progress.
Can’t wait for next weekend!
Well that might be some of the endgame if everything goes well. But that will only work if a balance occurs. If some aggressive fractions becomes to powerful and dominants all other it becomes boring. If being a pirate is very lucrative trading via boat will stop.
If it is to easy to defend towards pirates, piracy will completely stop.
These systems AoC plans to implement are very complex and hard to predict how such a game world will develop. We will see.
In the same way you say these things will stop, they can at the same % chance continue and flourish. So kind of useless to think of it this way imo. You also have to factor in that the devs control the balancing, so it's more likely that these things will become balanced in time either way
If trading stops, it becomes 2x as lucrative. There will always be supply if there is demand
@@GrappLr Well, till all nodes are maxed, right? What then?
I just wanted to say that what you described in this video is maybe the plan how they want it to work, but it is not easy at all. But maybe they are smart enough to plan and patch it so it stays in balance.
Lets hope!
@@nottog Yes sure, they have to balance it. I did not say it won't work. I am just saying it is not easy and it needs to be balanced/patched continuously, most likely.
@@shaytal100 Nodes lose levels when wars are successful there, which in turn opens additional possible nodes to maxing as well
and then the mayor gets on his flying mounts and zooms across the world with sandblocks in seconds
Very limited to inventory though
Well explained and great theory crafting
Thanks dude
Can't wait to play AOC in 2050. For now, gonna enjoy this type of content in albion and eve
I'll be there with you in 2050, blasting AoC on my 12k monitor with my 9090ti
this is why I played archeage, the pvp!!! I stole countless packs, fish, merchant ships! best fun I've ever had.
There will be resource shortages due to overexploitation, but these systems have not yet been implemented, collection is in its infancy.
This is a good point as well!
Or if the game is somewhat boring or say a new fun game comes out and a server has lower population
I’m sure people will try to spreadsheet the fun out of this game asap and push for a “node rotation so people can get what they need” but I’m hoping the RPers will shut that down and force a war haha
Without the ability to circumnavigate, those ocean journeys from Sujoma to say Peligora might be a slog, depending on boat speed. Yes, this is me adding a comment to help your engagement 😂
And I, for one, am grateful for the engagement, the algorithm blesses me today
Its the man , the myth , the legend
Not to mention you might have to hire a player trade vessel to move your goods across the ocean if you dont have a large enough ship
Yup, very true.
I feel like the population now is good for the Riverlands but when the entire world opens up I feel like it's gonna be pretty barren if they don't allow more people on the server
I don't understand why they gonna launch tropics as one of the first terrains if we don't have any kind of boats in the game. According to the map it should be plenty to swim around and without aquatic mounts and boats it will be pain in the ass.
U look like you use just the right amount of calogne. To many people overdo it or do to little, but not you
I think we are like 6 years away. Like 2030 is very realistic polished product.
judging by lack of content in alpha 2, yeah, it seems that way xD
I think 2026/2027 we will have something very playable. Polished, nah. But very playable, good chance.
can you click to find resources on the map like that? or did you create this overlay for the video.
It’s a site, ashes codex
and the one making the most cash is the dude making the best caravan components B)
Hmmmm… like the guy selling shovels during gold rush?
@@GrappLr exactly just set up shop next to a caravansary and watch the gold pour in traders gotta get their product around somehow I also sold caravans during a2 B)
Do you know if they're going to enforce race specific spawn zones? Like if you spawn as an orc, you start in the Jundark?
I've heard mixed things. Originally there were going to be like 3-4 spawn points, and it was random. Then I heard that you could choose where you spawn out of those points. Then I heard that maybe some may be racially dependent.
Who knows at this point, I've heard a lot of different stories haha!
Currently it's planned for all races to be able to start from any divine gateway. Players come to Verra from another world, Sanctus to help build it up and prepare for the invasion of The Ancients and The Others. ashesofcreation.wiki/Divine_gateways
Sounds like EVE online in a fantasy world. This will require extensive community produced trade websites, tools, realtime data, spreadsheets and drama.
Keep in mind that there are many servers, all which have very different economies, node progressions and other factors that distinguish them.
I wish I was a teen so I could be excited to play such a complex game. I fear my time for a time demanding game has ended :(
See, I actually don't buy this argument. I don't value a game based on how fast I progress. I value a game based on how fun it is to play. If I play 3 hours a week, am I having fun, even if it's very slow progress? If the answer is yes, then good, it's a success. Faster progress does not mean more fun.
Some people took months to hit level 60 in Classic WoW, and had a blast the entire time.
@@GrappLr That is true, and I agree with you, I've always loved slow paced games. This is more about me specifically because I've been struggling with my gaming time, I'm planning to get married and buy a house big enough for a kid, so as you can imagine it's been hard to not overthink any spare time as 'not making money'.
The game seems dope tho, exactly the kind of game I would get obsessed in my golden gaming years.
I like that you pivoted into it, been following you since the beginning of LoR
the node I want to see tested is that island in the middle as a pirate island
and then you mentioned it at 8:20
It will 100% be a thing on some servers!
0:56 the riverlands in A2 seem to be the exact same size as on the world map, why do you think it's not?
Shape on the map is quite different, and more ponds/water inland
This game needs work... but what it aims to do and from the little that I've experienced... it is looking/feeling outstanding in terms of the systems and just the feel of everything having weight...
Let's hope it improves fast in the areas it needs to.
@@GrappLr True... needs A LOT OF WORK... but the base of what exists is generally pointing towards a good direction IMO
@@GrappLr Key word fast ahahha... they have a long way to go from where we are vs where we should be by now...
The casual player who has 1-2 hours before work - gets half way to said node - killed 4x, logs off. Nice next pilgrimage tomorrow. I do think it all sounds dope but worried for the casual player if the walking time's are simply that long
Casual players are not getting PvP killed
Cool video. I'm really hyped for ashes but I seen alot of people hyping over this map (like on pirategames stream) and while it is exciting, its literally only a 2d concept art. Its taken them 8 years to make a SINGLE incomplete biome. We'll see how patches go over alpha phases, but to me its optimistic to think they will have SINGLE continent within the next 3 years, anyone who thinks this whole map is gone be done soon is smoking pure copium.
Fair. I could be wrong, but I thinking churning out more Biomes isn’t that hard. The hard part is getting the infrastructure down for networking, combat, etc. Once all that is in a good spot, I expect to see an expansion of terrain to be very fast.
Isn't it easier to create terrain on the fly with UE5 from what i've seen at least? You will handcraft it after the foundations have been generated by the engine. They plan to have 5 zones ready by... May for Phase 3. I don't expect them to finish all zones by release, maybe they'll release them as an expansion or we'll get surprised, but I won't cope too much.
The argument with "its been 8 years in development" doesn't mean much when 5 years ago they were 10-20 people at best, now they're 200 people.
@@GrappLr I agree thats the harder part, but shouldnt it be different teams? A network engineer isnt doing level design or vice versa. Maybe there is alot more done on other biomes behind scenes and it will be patched in quickly, but the realist in me thinks not otherwise when they done preview build streams it wouldnt be all riverlands.
@@fallenhonor4988 I think definitely be quicker than 8 years per biome, like you said they have ramped up the team so we'll have to wait and see. But for me talking about this concept art map as its going to be complete in the next decade is crazy. I think the game could launch with the west continent (~7 biomes) and be decent but still think thats years away.
cant wait to play the endgame in 2030
Great video, but I think you are discounting the scarcity/supply and demand of qualified/skilled labor and the interconnectedness of the artisans.
I almost delved into a side topic of how PVE professions will affect all of this, but it was kind of hard to verbalize, and secondly, I wanted to focus on one thing for the video. Is there anything more specific you'd like for me to cover when it comes to PVE professions?
I shall refer to you as Chad Jaw Streamer
Not even my final form
The idea is wonderful, but it all solely relies on impimentation.
The dream is real, but it's more or less at the 'what if' stage more than anything.
True
Brother are you listening to brian eno in the background?
Don't recognize that name.
Its crazy how people's imagination is better than the actual game XD
So you can attack caravans and steal thing from them Albion style ? Because if not people will definitely be making those trips on a scale, and market won't be that different imo.
You absolutely can. All caravans and ships are attackable and lootable, with no PvP penalty (there are severe PvP penalties in most of the world for non consensual PvP).
Is it an entire globe or just flat?
The devs have a hidden forcefield around the world… what are they hiding… and ice wall maybe?
If gears are not consumables, drop or break easily...then there will be lesser demand for crafting?
First of all, all BiS gear is crafted. Secondly, gear repair requires not just gold, but can require resources as well. Repair kits will be craft able for example as well.
@@GrappLr So tiered repair kits? I felt Albion sustained so well is because gears are consumables, it feels weird if you don't drop your gears on death but having legendary gear & going through a time that you are unable to use it because you can't find legendary repair kits are not bad as well
We'll see i have reservations i pike raiding and ehhhh
trading is not something that ashes oof creation has invented.
games like silkroad and archage has this system 15 years ago..
Never said they invented it.
the map looks like the hisec parts of eve online hah
I don't get to keep up with ashes very much is there I mean I could just go look but I'm just going to ask because it adds a commented that helps with algorithms. Is there supposed to be some sort of end game for PVE cuz I'm not really a PVP fan in MMOs at least not like open world PVP and even like Battlegrounds and stuff for Wow or the worldview worldview world in Guild Wars 2 it just wasn't something I enjoyed a whole lot probably cuz I was really really bad at it and the fact that Guild Wars 2 didn't have a real good PVE system setup and I still haven't really forgiven or wanted to give blizzard any of my money after the crap they went through just you know I find myself wanting an MMO and I don't really want to play Final Fantasy XIV as great as I do think the game is there's something about it that was I don't know
You should have said “spice” instead of sand blocks
I'm gonna be king of pirates! 😂
Actually a very viable playstyle!
The concept itself sounds fun, but if the top 10 guilds ally with each other and just smash everyone else, then it's not really that fun. Hopefully it's not going to fall victim to sweatlords zerging up to kill everyone one by one and keep them weak.
Time will tell
All these trading nodes have been already in Archeage, it fill be fun for the 1-st time. Than it will become boring runnig miles through the map..
People just hyping the game where currently nothing to do except grinding mobs
One doesn’t have to participate if it is not fun.
This is far from the most ambitious. This is a remixed Archeage. Now Quinfall is ambitious. It's AI generated and human monitored. Very buggy and early...but that's a task. Not even the devs know how the game will turn out..Now that's ambitious 😂
That is the future of mmorpgs
@GrappLr I agree. They may look crazy now, but if they can get AI to do all that paid staff work, then there's no going back.
UA-cam / twitch / streaming viewership will homogenize all servers via established meta.
Impossible.
The concept of "endgame" in an MMO is kind of dumb if you think about it. It's not good to even realize it. MMOs are endless games.
I appreciate the video...but your breakdown is the exact reason I will not be playing this game and why it will fail. The devs in this game are from MMO's that started 15-20 years ago. The players who will be in this world are not from that era and they do not care about the world that Ashes is trying to create. Players today want instant gratification...not a grind or a full time game. They will just want to log in, pvp, raid, do a couple of dailies and log off. They do not want to be a uber driver or truck transporter for 3-4 hours a day. What you are going to have is a few whales/no-life players/one-two major guilds have the monopoly on the market and everyone else trying to survive off of it.
Also, no one ...wants to take 20 minutes to go from one side of the zone to the other, let alone an hour to get from one major area to another. It sounds cool on paper, but when 2/3rds of your player base leaves after 2-3 months...you will realize you messed up and there will be no fixing it at that point.
See, similar was said about games like Baldur's Gate. Dead game type, no action combat, all turn based, can't work, too niche. Look what happened.
I think you'll be surprised.
👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
💪
Kind of like Albion
In some ways yes
This game will die super fast just like every PvP MMO. With a world this big, zones will really be empty once the 30 - 60 day massive exodus hits. Games that rely on PvP all day get extremely boring and spiral out of control as players leave. This is why these games fail because players don't want to PvP 24/7. Also to note based on lots of people's comments, griefing is going to be hell in this game for players trying to level weeks after a server launches since XP seems horrendous and grouping is pretty much required. Good luck finding people to actually group with at lower levels.
The game has a ton of non PvP content, and non consensual PvP is going to be much more rare
Basically its just like albion online
Without the gankbox. And a very different progression system. But yes, the trading has lots of similarities.
Hopeium
Always!
Wil lbe like throne and lib, 1 guild will ruin the server
The game is far too big for this to be the case. It's not even close. It would take a guild with like literally 20k+ members to control an entire server, across all nodes.
Will it happen? Maybe on one or two servers. But it'll be damn rare.
I had the thought, because of how big the game is in a2 I could easily understand after launch, a good number of players will NEVER go to to half of the map. I said it will feel like a server will effectively have 4 separate "servers" where people are able to overlap but its a world you may never know. (this is not a server meshing comment but more of thinking how "servers" work in games like wow/new world).
I think they need to shuffle some resources around the map tbh, make 1 node have more metal than the rest another gets more gem, another gets more stone, another with more plants and the last gets more animals this will devlope a resource movement loop between nodes i reckon
I think that’s the idea of biomes in principle. We are just not there yet.
I hope some stuff like say Adamantite only is in a certain biom . And is rare . And in another area is unitatium
Like in EVE online
Exactly! But hopefully even better.
The game it's big but far from be as detailed as the current new world, actually feels very disappointing for almost 10 years development, it's far from what they have shown in the livestreams and honestly the game feels very indie... Being in ''alpha'' it's not an excuse at all, just look the current state and think how long it will take to get released... I would give more or less 2-3 years for what Steven has being saying LMAO and I bought the game in 2018... Honestly the game looks awful, no in-game direction at all, I won't be playing it anymore, and surely when it get's more ''polished'' I will be playing other games that are coming out in 2025 like Archeage Chronicles that looks 100% better and took much less time to be made than Ashes... Even thought some might say the games will have different approaches, but when I bought Ashes Steven wanted to make a better Archeage, and that was my reason to buy it, and guess what? It's coming next year and looks 1000% better than Ashes... Feels like I just wasted my money and time
Look; end of the day, if a better game comes out, I’ll be a happy man, I’ll play that too! I have no hidden agenda in AoC, I just like good games. Bring on all the MMOs.
I mean. If you see buying a founder pack as buying a game thats not even buy to play you must be dumb af
I think your looking at it wrong. Because you can't see it, does not mean there is not significant progress in it. They will want the player base to focus their energy on a particular aspect of the game that the Devs want to focus on. When they are happy with the put come of the focus, then they can add in more complexity, or remove the previous focus and add another area of focus. So you might think things are getting added and removed randomly, when in actual fact they are focussing on one thing at a time.
At the same time they need it to be fun and feel like your not wasting your time.
There ZERO chance there plan will come as they envision, they would need to increase current dev size by 20x and it would still take at minimum 10+ years base on what they currently show.
There used to be game with such caravan system forgot name.....what players did was make ALTs fir caravan and loot there own stuff for rewards.
? I don't understand the second line.
"Most Ambitious Endgame Ever" Immediately lost all credibility saying such nonsense.
Not bigger than new world lol smh
I didn't like it at all, playing one hour and uninstalled the game, sometimes feels like the content creators are hyping their own delusion and making other people fall in that trap
It’s very limited. I’ve enjoyed myself thus far though. And I’m not the only one.
Well, it's a grindy, slightly slower, group-focused MMO. That won't appeal to everyone. And on top of that, it's very early in development -- technically the game isn't even in a "come play it" state yet, the game instead is in a "you're welcome to come test a very early build" stage.
GrappLr - The great theorist. envisioned ̶L̶a̶i̶s̶s̶e̶z̶-̶f̶a̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶p̶i̶t̶a̶l̶i̶s̶m̶ "Organic" economic system in the year 2024.
Huh? Lol