Why the Japanese Navy and Army HATED Each other
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
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In Imperial Japan, the Army and Navy had such a fierce rivalry that it just about compromised their entire war effort. This is their story.
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:16 Japan's Modernization
2:35 Showa Period Politics
4:35 Rule By Assassination
6:58 World War 2
8:27 Guadalcanal Campaign
10:03 Air Defence
11:22 Conclusion
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And Xbox
@Psiborg X UA-cam is his job. Taking ad money for shitty games is just something you gotta do. It's what lets him make such good content for us. Skip forward if you don't want to see it. Also, at least the ads he takes are for bad games that are somewhat relevant to this video.
@Psiborg X That was a pretty long rambly comment. And apparently it hurt you so much that you had to come back 10 minutes later to say more. But I'm the snowflake? Like I said, just skip the ad. If some UA-camrs decide not to advertise for certain games, that's on them, but there's no shame in wanting to actually get paid well for your job.
@Psiborg X you don't need to ptw at the middle and low tiers. The ptw is mainly the tier 9 and 10 tanks. And that's how all mmo's are these days. All the good shit is in the back behind a price tag.
Army was right.
😎
Imagine fighting a world war during a civil war
China
😨
@@imlivingunderyourbed7845 they stopped the civil war, tho, and reds and KMT often even fought shoulder to shoulder
France did it. Damascus and Dakar saw serious action between the Free French and Vichy French forces...
ww1 russia: yes
So basically, the Yamato was sunk because the Army said to the Navy, "What's the matter, McFly? Chicken?"
Pretty much.
''Nobody, nobody calls me chicken''
*proceed to accelerate in 27 knots*
I believe it was more so it doesnt ends in US hands.
@@dominiquecharriere1285 They wouldn't allow her to be captured in the first place and should such risk present itself, they'd scuttle her...
They however did recognize that protecting Yamato from being sunk until the expected invasion of the main island (where Yamato might be able to contribute something) was going to be extremely challenging if not near impossible because of the near complete control over the airspace and the ocean by US forces.
A ship the size of Yamato can't be easily moved without being detected, and very few facility can support her in the first place, and considering that USN can pop in pretty much anywhere along their coast and there's little they can do about it... (if the aircraft roaming overhead wasn't bad enough)... Yamato's demise was basically guaranteed, the question was just how will she be destroyed, and how many of her enemy can she take with her before she is sunk.
The yamato was even super hard to protect, it was too big and heavy, moving burned a shitton of fuel, it was a super easy target, when its cannon were able to kill everything it hit enemies just had to send small or fast targets against it and attack from the blindisdes created from the slow manuvering it had.
Even with the best crew and no inside governing problems it would have been hard to save the ship, only really work with several cruisers around it.
The Yamato was simbol of power to rise moral, it wasn't truly meant to fight.
IJA: "My Lord, the Yamato has been sunk and a grievous blow delivered to our enemy."
Hirohito: "Well, what kind of blow did the Americans suffer?"
IJA: "Americans?"
Made my morning haha
*Your Imperial Majesty*
LOL 😂
😂😂😂😭😭😭☠️☠️☠️
なにw
Old saying goes, "Our glorious Army and Navy fight against each other with everything they have, then fight against external threat with whatever remains."
You got a point bro
this sums up most human history sadly enough. it is what people refer to when they say "empires crumble from within"
the mongols and ottomans are good examples.
Thankfully, because otherwise WW2 might have been 1939 TO 1950.
I believe this quote much more than the other one that goes something like "me against my brother. me and my brother against my cousin, etc..." People will always fight the closest enemy first, even if they're related or the same race or nationality, whatever it is. The external threat is never considered until it's too late. Even in an alien invasion, we'll still be fighting each other instead of uniting (and many people will collaborate with the aliens).
Hahahaha
Remember that one time the IJA flat out lied to the IJN about taking Henderson field and they lost a light cruiser to U.S. Aircraft.
Lol
Epic prank bro.
Prankd
And the IJN never told the IJA that they lost 4 carriers at Midway.
GOTTEM
"Intercepting bombers is a navy issue."
"Intercepting bombers is an army issue."
"Please help, my skin is melting."
Sounds like an air force problem to me...
I don't think air force didn't exist for Japan nor US. Britain and Germany did though.
@@MaxHDAvenger it exists but was apart of the US army until 1947 where the usaf was made a separate branch of the military
"Melting skin is an Army/Navy problem." (depending who you ask)
Sounds like a job for the peasants
Could you imagine if Japan ended up winning? The Army and Navy would be still fighting each other over who really won the war lol
Army: WE WON
Navy: No WE WON
Some alternate historians believe that Japan would have been able to push and expand a lot further into Asia if they had worked together. They would have lost no matter what, but there would have been a drastic difference in the final outcome.
@@jzzisk the craziest thing is if Japan cooperate with the nazi to invade soviet, the ussr had to faced two pronged attack which made ussr left the stage soon, of course this could happen by uniting IJA and IJN
@@jadeimingan184 Army: We won the victory!
Navy: What the hell are you saying? We are the one who won the victory!
@@jamesputra1729 Imagine:
The Russian's unrelenting numbers vs The Japanese Indomitable fighting spirit
One side will fight and die no matter what, while the other will fight and die but at a condition.
Wehrmacht: Ey Luftwaffe we are pinned
Luftwaffe: Dont worry bro *sends 10 stukas to level a building*
JIA : Ey we are pinned
JIN: That sounds like a you problem
Wehrmacht in 1945: Ey Luftwaffe we are pinned
Luftwaffe: ...
Wehrmacht: Hello? Anyone there??
@@canacana6484 Not very pog champ there but your not wrong there.
@@canacana6484 it really be like that sometimes.
@@canacana6484 Luftwaffe: Sorry Anime Pfp detected Support Invalid
@@stalker2084 Excuse me sir I will not take this slander from someone that has a huggy blob as a name
It didn't help that the IJN and IJA were full of officers whose families had been rival samurai clans. Their arguments went WAAAY back! Thank you very much for another top notch video!
Satsuma and Choshu iirc
Still can be a problem.!!!
Whose*
@@flaviocatarino4328 oops....silly auto-correct combined with commenting at 3am. Will edit.
Might as well just start another Sengoku Jidai in the 20th century.
that's why IJA may be the only army ever in the planet that built their own army carrier (Yamashio Maru) and army submarine (type 3).
They had their own transports, too. The Army refused to sail on Navy transports at Midway.
They had Akitsu Maru too and others.
We (the US, or just the West in general) definitely has some secret Army-specific submarine somewhere... But this is just nuts lmao
@@MrDgwphotos yes, but the US Army has its own transports too
When I was growing up, knowing I was intrested in the military, my school's career adviser tried to get me to join the RAF (I think it was his prior service), if I wanted to be an infantryman or drive tanks I could join the RAF, if I wanted to be a sailor I could join the RAF, and of course if I wanted to be a pilot I could join the RAF. At the same time though the Army had its own pilots, its own sailors (called mariners in army parlance), and of course infantry and tankers. The navy of course had its own sailors, but also its own pilots and infantry.
Gotta hand it to them, for having an internal rivalry that makes Patton and Montgomery's look elementry, they managed to achieve a surprising amount .
That's what stands out to me, that even with all this, that the Japanese accomplished a surprising amount, 90% of the credit should go to the loyal military personnel that despite crazy leadership tried to will their country to win. Kind of makes me sad that such incredible soldiers were essentially wasted and put in bad situations to satisfy some stupid rivalry.😐😑😡
@@Kruppt808 Incredible ? That's laughable, incredible soldiers don't have a policy of mass rape, kidnapping and murder of unarmed civilians.
@@jillvalentinefan77 yeah I mean they had the initiative with a series of crippling surprise attacks, and subsequently managed to completely and utterly lose the war, to the point where they had no country left whatsoever.
@@Weznut They weren't ready for the war we gave them.
@@jillvalentinefan77
Pretty sure it wasn’t just the Axis soldiers that have done that
German Army: “Yo guys! we need help over here!”
Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe: *sends in warships and planes*
*Meanwhile in the Pacific*
IJA: “we need help over here!”
IJN: “I miss the part where that’s my problem”
Some hilarious things you left out. The two resented each other so much that the IJA had their own "navy" and the IJN had their own "army".
And that the two branches origins were from 2 rival clans .
And both sides actively threatened one another's general staff and admiralty with threats and in several occasions of actuall attempts at assassination. Even Yamamoto had such threats made to him by the IJA
Reminds Me Of The Marine Corps And The Coast Guard.
@@lastdayonearth8381 Not really similar. Marine corps and coast guard were more like it'll take too much effort for army/navy to do this task, let's get create a new branch so that they can focus on something they should focus on. While IJA and IJN was more like I don't want army/navy involved, so I gonna try to get the job done without them.
The Coast Guard was never part of the Army. They have been their own branch since the Revolutionary War.
Sounds like China's "joint command".
And both had their own Air Forces
"The Imperial Japanese Army had one enemy more cunning than all others"
Me: 'The Geneva convention'
"The Imperial Japanese Navy"
Oh... yeah
To the IJA that was more like "The Geneva Suggestion"
@@alexandervolkov5205 what about imperial japanese navy were the same as the army
@@zemo5218 Not as brutal but they do have their share of crimes
@@alexandervolkov5205 russia: ah, i see we have something in common
@@comradeofthebalance3147 Wasn't the IJN in charge of the POW camps?
The Army: "we'll coup!"
The Navy: "FINE! WE'LL JUST ASSASSINATE THE PRIME MINISTER!"
The Prime Minister of Japan: *chuckles* "I'm in danger!"
Emperor Hirohito: "THAT"S ENOUGH! I'd rather surrender to the Americans than deal with your shit!"
Navy: "Hey! I just lost the Yamato and our planes! Now the Americans are going to bulldoze us!"
Army: "I missed the part where that's my problem."
Also the army before the nuking:
*Gets massacred by soviet blitzkrieg*
@@takebacktheholyland9306 To be fair the soviets supremely underperformed during that battle given the circumstances. but it had a lot to do with the purges I think.
This rivalry makes the West Point vs Naval Academy football games look like childish name calling
I thoughts that’s what it was.
It provides a safe outlet for their rivalries.
After getting nuked 40-7 by Air Force last year, Navy proceeded to lose 15-0 to Army.
@@archdornan6053 I cried
It's all in good fun.
IJA:
I Don't care if the Americans win,
I just need the IJN to lose!
If Americans win they both lose. Literally the end of their existence.
@@jamesgavin6171
IJN/IJA Yeah but at least our Real enemy doesn't win then .
@@jamesgavin6171 scorpion says to the beaver. let me ride across the river on your back. Beaver No you'll poison me & I'll die. scorpion, I wouldn't do that, I die okay. On the ride scorpion stings Beaver. "oh why did you stng me? we're going to DIE! scorpion, it's my nature😱. The mutual destruction of each other does not seem to concern them thank God or we would have a much longer War. before the atomic bomb I know a man that was on the flotilla of 300 ships getting ready to attack Japan. They were very happy when they were told Japan surrendered
America smacks both across the face. "well congratulations. YOU BOTH LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
That's like Manchester United saying "I don't care if Liverpool wins as long as Man City loses"
One difference important to my families ancestors, the IJN was in charge of Shanghai and Manilla. My ancestors fled Nazi Austria and were allowed to live as refugees in Shanghai and Manilla. When the IJA demanded Jews be handed over to the army for deportation back to Nazi Germany, the IJN refused to give up any Jewish German or Austrian refugees to the IJA. My cousins would’ve have been killed if they had been returned back to Nazi conquered Europe. The IJN saved my relatives and thousands of other Jews from being deported to the horrible German Nazi death camps.
I wonder if the IJN refused simply to spite the army. Still, it’s a good thing they didn’t.
@@_byzzer3228 That, and the fact that the IJN had SLIGHTLY more respect for international law and basic human decency than the IJA.
I have to say this in the spirit of the IJA
I missed the part where thats my problem
Im a Filipino and wow the battle of Manila is fucked up. The navy was supposed to retreat but they did not. They chose to fight to the end. While doing so they massacred and raped like there is no tomorrow.
So I think the IJN only did that out of spite.
I cant really choose who is better than the other. Still fate or whatever has a funny way of working.
@@lelouchvibritannia4028 What evidence is there that the IJN had more respect for international law and human decency than the IJA?
It's much more difficult to commit large-scale atrocities as a navy than as an army through lack of opportunities - but this doesn't mean that the IJN was somehow 'nicer' than the IJA.
There are many documented cases of IJN units murdering enemy survivors of naval engagements during the war. Sure, they didn't commit the Rape of Nanking, but they also never had the opportunity.
However: IJA general Yamashita ordered his troops to leave Manila for the northern mountains and declare Manila an open city, the same thing the Filipinos/Americans did in 1942 to spare civilian lives.
But an IJN admiral and his unit of IJN naval troops stationed in Manila ignored Yamashita's order, obviously. The Battle of Manila and the deaths of 100,000 Filipino civilians happened because of the IJN, NOT the IJA, ironically.
British soldier: I need air support!
British pilot: no worries, chap, I got you
Japanese soldier: I need air support!
IJN pilot: skill issue
Japanese Army: Has a war in China and doesn’t fear the Allies
Japanese Navy: And I took that personally
When you realize that every suicidal last stand was actually the navy dumping the army...
@@JeanLucCaptain F.
This is too stupid for words.
@@mizzury54 Which part?
You'd think the proper response would be to oneup them by invading and occupying some land in the direction they wanted to expand in right?
NOPE time to grief your own army!
“I-it’s not like I like you or anything, baka!”
*pushes your supplies into the sea*
UwU
O///O
tsundere IJN
UwU
Admiral Hipper defects to the IJN
Another thing you left out was that both the army and navy had their own atomic bomb development division that did not work together. It complicated what was already a difficult job by forcing both atomic bomb development teams to make their own independent strides into nuclear research that the other may already have figured out.
Heh this is similar to their jet plane proyects
Kikka is often said to be a "copy" of the Me 262 when the thing had absolutely nothing to do with it because the IJA already was working with the 262 and will finally be the Ki-201 so the navy was like "eeeewww army" and design their own jet engines and boosters
“My enemy lives with me, protect the same country, invade as a country, share the same enemy and the serve the same leader, we may be allies for a moment but in the end they are still my enemy.” - Imperial Japan (probably)
Kinda wonder how Japan had so much men when they were fighting both U.S. and China.
Enforced Conscription. The country had a population Boom in the 20s and 30s so their forces expanded rapidly.
The US, China, and the British commonwealth forces. The Japanese lost 200,000 men fighting in Burma and India. It was mostly a pointless campaign, too.
@@jillvalentinefan77 they always have the suicide tendencies after jimmu did third gender linfamy thats why there are seppuku and harakiri i like kurosawa brooding and poignant gondola no uta but thats waste of life so nah mainland sea always fight even under chinese rule viet go to wahr until champa are refuges while we ever only majorityly trade minus the mongol killing by the founder of bill wurtz empire
@@prezentoappr1171 I get english isn't your first language but I only understood 20 maybe 25 percent of what you said.
USN: who do you hate more?
IJA: our navy
USN: *lemme take care of them for you*
IJA: *yes*
US Army / Marine Corps: who do you hate more?
IJN: our Army.
US Army / Marine Corps: lemme take care of them for you
IJN: Yes
@@stahlhelm5755
**Proceeds to spam Shermans that can penetrate the 1nm armor of the ha-go**
@@lancegideondiokno1774 You play hoi4 mate?
@@lancegideondiokno1774 USAAF / US Naval Aviation: Who do you guys hate more?
IJAAS: IJNAS!
IJNAS: IJAAS!
USAAF / US Naval Aviation: Okay i'll deal with you both
@@stahlhelm5755 I do actually
But I honestly got tired of it
(It just took so long and I don't have that much time honestly)
Call of war however is a good free substitute ngl
People who complain about Democracy: There’s so much infighting over basic things!
Imperialist Japanese Navy: If the Army gets bombed it shouldn’t be the Navies problem...
Imperialist Japanese Army: If the Navy gets bombed it shouldn’t be the Army’s problem...
Arguers gonna argue.
@@TheFront that they do...that they do...
@@garrettallen7427 no they don't.
@@liquidsnail7305 Can't we all get along?
Japanese Prime Minister: Haha I'm in danger
The IJA and IJN rivalry is basically a modern version of a quasi-Sengoku period clan war, only within the government. No wonder they always felt cut off during operations, even having two independent paratrooper divisions.
My gawd
“We are surrounded, we need bombardment support.”
“No.”
*loses island*
Their disagreements went so deep that they refused to even use the same weapons. For example, for their fighter aircraft, the IJA generally used Ho-103 12.7mm machine guns and Ho-5 20mm cannons; the IJN generally used the Type 5 13.2mm machine gun and the Type 99 20mm cannon. Now, you might be inclined to say "Well, at least they both used 20mm cannons, right?" Well, here's the problem with that. The Ho-5 used 20×94mm rounds, with the Type 99 used 20×72mm or 20×101mm depending on the variant. So, the ammo wasn't even interchangeable.
Interesting! I did not know that
Weren't the infantry 7.7mm rounds also different? I remember rimmed, semi rimmed and rimless 7.7mm
@@kyleabrezzi My specialty (if you can really call it that) is aircraft, so you probably know more than me about that particular matter, honestly.
@@kyleabrezzi iJN SNLF and IJA shared weapons, including tanks and small arms.
The IJA have their own Aircraft Carriers while the IJN have their own army....😂😂😂
In Brazil we use to say that "with friends like this, you don't need enemies"...
I think it a universal saying
Haha it applies well to this situation doesn't it?
O shit really in brazil
It's not about godlike enemies but about piglike teammates!
@@alexanderzerka8477 I also hate when they do that, like they need you to know that they are brazilians
This rivalry helped to save Australia from invasion. The Japanese navey wanted the invasion of Australia for its northern ports. The army said NO, they were too busy elsewhere.
One thing many people don't know about, is that the Japanese planes from Army and Navy services had entirely different shells and rounds.
The Army planes used Arisaka 7.7, while the Navy used British .303 rounds.
The Army Ho-5 20mm cannon doesn't share ammo with Type 99 Mk.1 and Type 99
Even the Army 30mm and Navy 30mm has different shells.
Meanwhile in America:
"The navy is gae"
"Shut up"
Squids vs Grunts
Marines vs airforce and navy 😭
@@paulcowherd5570 the head of the marines reports to the head the the navy
Ah the old gags ... NAVY, Need Any Vaseline Yet, ARMY, Aren't Really Men Yet, MARINE, My Ass Rides In Nave Equipment/ Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential, AIR FORCE, WTF, Sir the internet is down .... I CANT LIVE LIKE THIS!... and EVERYONE'S favorite to dog on the Coast Guard....but they catch so much from everyone else I'll actually be nice and pick on some of the services actually able to stand up for themselves lol...... in all seriousness vis a vis the USCG their new cutters actually more or less live up to expectations and are capable of doing the damn job assigned to them....meanwhile ....( sad LCS, DDG 1000, AND Ford class noises)
Stay salty my friends
MM2(SS/SW) former...
“The Navy is gay”
“Oh honey, stop, you’re flattering me.”
IJA: “bombers fly over the ocean, so navy problem.” IJN: “bombers strike land targets, so army problem.” USAAF: “so tell me again about this napalm stuff.”
Idk captain, it kinda looks like curry sauce so I’d say we give it to the Japanese as a early birthday present.
U.S Army: We don't entirely know but it goes well in our flamethrowers. Time for some burn't rice for Uncle Sam.
US forces: "EVERYONE GETS BOMBERS!!! AH HA HA HA!!"
I would like to see the US Army, US Navy and US Marine Corps have their own aviation rivalry in ww2, a tri-service rivalry rather than the Japanese duo-service rivalry.
@@dallasyap3064 well that’s never gonna happen
This is just one of the many issues that plagued not only Japan, but all of the entire Axis powers. The branches of the military’s and governments were all competing against each other and dragged themselves down in the mud. Meanwhile, the US, British, and Soviet systems were for the most part clear of rivalry and focused solely on destroying the enemy as a combined front.
I though Germany was pretty on point with air support and inventing the concept of joint chiefs (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht).
Germany don't really have an interservice rivalry like that of Japan. Idk where'd you got this bs from.
And all this time, the emperor: *sips on imported wine* and bing watches IJA and IJN fight as entertainment.
I've lived in Japan for 20 years... This is no surprise. Japan never lost it's clannish tendencies. They just learned to submit. The society promotes devotion above all else. The crazy Japanese videos you see, the death by overwork, the crazy dedication to conformity... All stem from this concept of devotion as the highest ideal. This video is just a highlight reel.
News that a Salary Man died sitting on his desk and wasn't noticed for about a week
If you don’t mind would you mind recommending a ‘crazy Japanese’ video?
People still care about clans? Wouldn't that be like if modern English people were hateful of each other because of which fuedal duke your ancient ancestors pledged fealty to?
@@ashfox7498 yeah but the English had a few centuries to modernize, Japan only had one. Still ridiculous, but the English analogy is a little extreme.
@@almond5560 In terms of time maybe, I'm just flabbergasted anyone cares about that stuff 40 years later,
Interservice rivalries are normal, but Japan was almost fighting a civil war. I've known they didn't get along, but never knew why. Thanks for explaining their history.
It's pretty hard to prevent coups in dictatorships. Or at least you have to think differently about how to prevent them.
@@SusCalvin depends on how many people you are willing to kill, and how much power the dictator has
@@Valiguss The armed guys who the dictator employs to prevent a coup are also precisely the guys who can stage a coup. One dude can still only hold so much together personally.
One trick they do is to compartmentalise the security services. That's why you see places with four different security agencies doing the same work in parallell. It limits the power a single general or police captain has, and you can use them against eachother if one makes a funny move.
Japan was a country formed by military nations/clans. Since the 12th century they were governed by the military class, civil wars are the most common thing in japanese history.
Knowing them have the civil war since the age of feudal lord
Hirohito: You officer, I would like you to be my next prime minister!
The officer: God help me
Imagine just being told, "no" while requesting evac. No explaination, just "no".
US army and navy: who could hate each other more than us?
Imperial japanese army and navy: observe.
I always got the impression it was controlled.
The RAF to the RN " mind if we put some of your planes on one of your carriers?.. pretty please , you can call it a seafire idk"
Bro, the US Army and Navy are brothers. Just because they talk shit doesn’t mean they hate each other.
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 Whooosh.
Remember that time that USS Hornet launched US Army bombers to attack Japan
"You are my brother and best friend. Nothing can split us apart".
"I like to fight my enemies on a boat and not on land".
*you're dead to me*
IJA: *dies at Guadal Canal*
IJN: "I'm a genius!"
US: *captures the canal*
IJN: "OH NO"
Guadalcanal isn’t a canal. It’s just the name of the island.
LOL I know this meme.
I have both good news and bad news for you.
The good news is you have been named Prime Minister. Congratulations!
The bad news is that you’ve been named Prime Minister. Do you have a choice of flowers for the wake?
By the time of planning the Battle of Midway the relationship between the IJA and IJN had deteriorated to the point of icy formality. But in the area of industrial production it deteriorated to insanity - since the Navy used right hand threaded screws and bolts the Army demanded left hand threaded screws and bolts...
You're Kidding! You Absolutely Have To Be Kidding!!! HAHAHA
Now that's just beyond petty.
I wonder how the emperor didn’t have people hung for treason
@@trezapoioiuy the dude is a weakling, just like his father AND his grandfather...
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 The emperor was supposed to be in command of the military, per the Meiji Constitution. However, if your top generals and admirals don't respect that the chain of command includes a leash on them by the emperor, there is little the emperor can do about it, not having guns of his own.
Suddenly, those incompetent leaders you see in anime make so much sense....
...you got a point there.
also some japanese author made a manga about a guy killing incompetent japanese politicians and leaders ( akumetsu )
@@rew6409 oh love that manga
@@rew6409 I just finished reading that manga. Man, there's a lot of similarities between Japan in _Akumetsu_ and my country Malaysia. Corrupt, power hungry politicians and bureaucrats, embezzlement, economic mismanagement and so on.
But that's where the similarities end. Here, those same corrupt, incompetent, out-of-touch and power-hungry politicians are also racists and bigots. What's more unfortunate is that some sultans and royal family members in Malaysia are in this category too.
Honestly most fictional examples don't approach the real examples of self destruction such bitterly balkanized and incompetent leadership achieved.
The sad story of the Yamato sinking goes even further - an Army Affiliated Air Armada, which could have defended her from the attacks which sunk her, was instead launched on a separate mission to attack the Allied force. The intent was to use the Yamato Force as a distraction, the result was that both were defeated in detail, allied planes able to focus on one part of the scattered Japanese effort at a time.
Funi
The other part was the warrior mentality in both branches that made non-combat arms like supply and services second string. The army would deploy large infantry forces leaving heavy weapons behind and the navy had very few support ships. Production was geared towards warships to the detriment of everything else.
Ironic how the IJA promise to send near 300 fighter planes to escort yamato only to do nothing and let the yamato sink with no fighter escort as planned
The trickster
Lol Gottem
They did they just immediately turned back
By that stage it wouldn't have mattered... the US Carrier fleet was immense by early 1945.... I doubt the IJA/IJN combined could have put up enough aircraft by then with EXPERIENCED pilots to make any difference...
"those bastard lied to me"- IJN admiral probably
Wow I didn't realize their relationship was THIS toxic. Imagine how effective they would have been in the war if they had actually worked together. The war might have gone on for a lot longer and been way deadlier, thankfully it didn't.
They might have won the war.
It would have been longer, but Japan couldn’t win after botching Pearl Harbor, they didn’t have the resources
"Imagine how effective they would have been in the war if they had actually worked together."
We don't need to imagine it, we can just look at the harbor and base of Rabaul. The Japanese Army and Navy commanders there were friendly with each other and cooperated. The result was a base so tough it was never defeated. It had to be bypassed and starved out by having its supplies cut off. If the whole IJN and IJA had cooperated the way the commanders at Rabaul did, the Pacific war could have lasted the rest of the decade or longer.
It wouldn't be Japan. Too many were in on this insane inter-service hostility.
IKR? I knew the difficulties in manchuria pressured the Navy to take objective in the Pacific, but this level of mistrust and undercutting is cartoonish
A house divided against itself cannot stand, but apparently it can still stagger about whilst flailing wildly in all directions...
Abraham Lincoln would be shocked that they made this long if he were there, but then would be like “I told you so!” 😂
Ah! And we had the same thing between our Italian Air Force (Regia Aeronautica) and Italian Navy (Regia Marina) during WW2!!!
So much so that the air force banned the navy to use any "device" that could takeoff by themself.... and they were stuck without any carrier... They truly hated each other
Oh, truly?!
Japanese Navy Ship : Look it's the Enola Gay heading to Japan should we call it in?
Captain's Response: "Not our job".
IJN captain: "Is it flying over land?"
IJN ship: "Yeah, towards Hiroshima".
IJN captain: "Army's problem".
IJN ship: "Shouldn't we tell the Army?"
IJN: "No. Their problem, they can figure it out. "
Hiroshima atomic bombing:
IJN ship: "Umm.. Sir. About Hiroshima.."
IJN captain: (blocks ears) "La la la, Army's problem".
@@Taiko-THC349 It didn't help that Hiroshima was the home of the 2nd ARMY Headquarters. And since Nagasaki was bombed because of its NAVAL significance, I figured the army had a similar conversation....
@@mobiusraptor7 It would have been like this:
IJA early warning post: "Sir, single US bomber heading our way. We believe it to be Nagasaki bound".
IJA Colonel: "Is it flying over sea?"
IJA EW post: "Yes sir, but.."
IJA Colonel: "Navy problem. Navy responsibility".
IJA EW post: "I will inform our Navy counterparts immediately then".
IJA colonel: "The fuck for?" Navy problem."
Nagasaki atomic bombing:
IJA EW post: "Sir! Nagasaki has been -"
IJA colonel: "Yep, Navy problem, Navy responsibility. Carry on, the war continues."
IJA EW post: "...... Ok Sir".
Jokes aside, it must have been incredibly frustating for the Japanese WW2 generation who actually wanted to fight and win.
I mean, to be fair, was it going to bomb the land or the ocean? The land is the army's responsibility :)
@@Dayvit78 The funny thing is that, that attitude in a way makes sense even as it undermined Japan's war effort.
Honestly, this sounds like it could be made into a movie in the same vein as "Death of Stalin."
I took a class on Nazi Germany, and heard similar power plays and infighting crippled the German home defense near the end of the war. That and Hitler investing too much into wonder weapons, like an artillery gun that needed two parallel railway tracks to transport the damn thing- the Schwerwer Gustav.
Also, it needed 40 separate axels to support the thing while it moved.
Did I mention it had the blistering fire rate of 14 rpd- rounds per day?(1) That's slightly more than one round every two hours!
References
(1)en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
@@mattmorehouse9685 yeah, plus the fighting between the SS and the Heer, even actual fighting at Castle Itter I believe. A death of the axis series would be great. One could make the show entirely on the blunders of the Italians though hahaha
Imagine a Japanese counterpart to the Downfall parodies.
It would be a tragedy, think of all of the enlisted soldiers and sailors who had unnecessary death and suffering because their superiors wouldn't get along.
@@fortress5278 Also there is Hitler refusing to resupply Rommel in Africa and causing Idek how many tank divisions to be completely wiped out from simple lack of supplies, leading to the loss of Africa.
Or when the Soviets were on the offensive and pushing the Germans back through Poland but Hitler refused to allow troops to be transferred away from Ukraine, which was a vital part of his fantasy version of how to win the war, but left the main front undermanned.
Hitler also was the one who insisted on spending vast amounts of resources on the construction of concrete bunkers along the French coast, which completely violated the German military philosophy of rapid deployment and initiative, and replaced it with sporadic dug in positions of defense, which did not work well at all.
Hitler also was further responsible for the invasion of D day in that he believed there was a secret army gathering, that was actually a bunch of inflatable tanks set up as a decoy. And even though his generals did not believe it to be accurate, he insisted they be occupied with this fake threat.
This is without mentioning of the general orders of no surrender. Which lead large amounts of his most experienced soldiers to be killed in avoidable and unwinnable confrontations with allied forces. This would create the situation later in the war where the vast majority of newly developed equipment and resources were being used to deploy almost entirely untrained divisions, leaving the most experienced and accomplished soldiers to attrition.
The Yamato was sent to Okinawa as a result of a meeting with the Emperor to discuss strategy when he stated "What about the Navy?? What are they doing?? Have we no ships left??" Caught off guard and not willing to lose face in front of the Emperor, a plan was quickly hatched to send the Yamato with only enough fuel for a one way trip, a suicide mission. The ship was supposed to beach itself, fire all its ammunition, and any surviving crew members were to join the infantry and provide whatever defense they could. Thanks for the video my friend, good job. 👍 👍
The rivalry can also be explained by the IJA and IJN's different military cultures (or mentalities).
During the Meiji era modernization drive, the IJA had been heavily influenced by Germany, whereas the IJN had been mentored by the British.
The rivalry was basically the biggest reason the Pacific war started, since after the IJA lost against the Soviets in 1937, and with China more or less becoming a giant resource vacuum, it was considered that the Army had failed, and now the Navy would come in and fix the mess the Army made. Not to mention a lot of Naval command didn't approve of the war in China, for a variety of reasons.
it's like a silly sibling rivalry
28 stab wounds
**BANG**
u dont want to giv him a chance eh?
China is dang big. The army is winning and needs ever more manpower, resources and time to keep winning.
Sometimes its a circular argument. The needs of the army is growing because they fight in China, so the army must have the resources inside China and fight some more.
pretty much the the example of the Army fucked up big time then the Navy proceed to do the same
@@SusCalvin Too big. The IJA never understood & massively underestimated the Chinese size. IJN saw that. That's why when the wanted war with the Allies they opposed even more but the IJA got their way
IJA: *_"Never thought I'd die not fighting side by side with, supposedly, an ally..."_*
IJN: *_"What about not side by side, with the enemy of the enemy that is also not your friend? ;)"_*
"Lol, no. Get bent!"
Nice pfp, sauce?
I agree, pfp sauce pls
But can you imagine how nasty the rivalries would be if Imperial Japan survive to the modern day? They would be arguing over nukes, space operations and yes, who gets to control and maintain satellite based communications and navigation systems.
The Allies were probably grateful as hell that the Japanese were so divided, they were very very tough opponents.
Even their armed forces united, Japan just dont have the economic power to achieve victory. Even Yamamoto warned this before Pearl Harbor.
@@FatGouf He did, he had seen their economic and manufacturing power. He did his best to warn them.
"...turning what was already a huge mess into a fustercluck...'
lol.
I wonder if someone at UA-cam demonetized this video on accident for that
of the Legendary proportions
someone's been playing too much arma
Nice save!
Awesome save. Your videos are good.
This rivalry helped the allies immensely in WWII
@Mage what are you on about? Japan would have still gotten curb stomped, regardless of imperial Japan's branches working in unison lol.
@Mage shouldn't have jumped at your comment. A lot of people downplay our capabilities even back in ww2
Makes me think of the USSR v USA in the space race, but a lot worse. The US scientist's helped each other, worked together, while the USSR scientist were rivals and competing. In the end, thanks to the USSR's scientist competing against one another, the US made it to the Moon first.
@@johntaylor4513 But you become laughing stock later. Fought against vietnamese farmers and did not win.
@@firstname5556 they did kill more. Not that its a good thing, just saying.
Do bear in mind that it was much more complicated. The Guadalcanal campaign was part of Tojo's idea and the army could not hold its end against the US forces which of course left their supply lines vulnerable. Not to mention, the IJN was then forced out due to it unable to catch any US navy formations for a decisive battle. There are also the common misconception that only the Navy supported the Southward Strike. There were army elements that supported the Southward strike like Tojo (again) and the navy was split on whether they wanted that. Yamamoto was highly reluctant while Nagano was willing to as two examples. This was also because the army was split between factions. Kõdõha and the Tõseiha albeit with navy elements.
Thanks for this. I once had a history teacher who told us that the IJA and IJN were at odds with one another and would regularly cause conflicts to justify their respective existences and steal funding from the other, ie starting a ground war in Manchuria and bombing Pearl Harbor. I always wanted to learn more about that and this video does a great job explaining it.
AKA How to recreate feudal system of lords, vassals and conflicting allegiances in a (somewhat) modern state.
Still happens today in every country, with different clothes but, still the same.
Not too difficult, actually. The only difference in government systems is how much you can get away with making the working class suffer, and how easy is for the elites to get away with corruption.
@@hbtm2951 corporations?
@@Joshua_N-A corporations are only the vassals, the real deal is who control these corporations, we would call these the "lords".
@@hbtm2951 deep state
IJN: You suck!
IJA: No you suck!
Emperor: OKAY YOU BOTH NEED TO CHILL!
"HOW ABOUT MAYBE YOU CHILL"
Emperor: *fuck! The Uno reverse.*
Good day gentlemen, sorry to have bothered you.
and then he hired the USN as a family therapist to calm things down
Did the emperor really have authority and power or was it just a ceremonial role?
@@dallasyap3064 During the 2nd world war he definetly did have. Nowdays the emperor is just ceremonial.
I watch allot of ww1 and ww2 videos and this kind of internal conflict ive never come across, what an interesting topic thanks for going through it so well
This is the only channel where I will watch a video on a topic I've previously seen on UA-cam, because I know there will be quite a few quality facts I wouldn't get anywhere else. So thorough
My father was stationed in the Pacific during the war and one of his duties was to guard Japanese prisoners that were being used to construct barracks and other buildings for American troops. He told me that they had to keep Japanese Army and Navy personnel separated and segregated because each branch blamed the other for losing the war. He said it was almost normal for battles at and between construction sites with hammers, 2x4s and anything else they could throw at each other.
getting hit with a hammer hurts though
Every allies: our enemy is Germany, Italy and Japan
Japan: Japanese Army vs Navy
Germany: Cheating on their USSR gf.
Poland: _Got screwed over by virtually almost _*_everyone else_*
@@jackieronaldwayerston6723 Czechoslovakia : *Haha what.*
Switzerland: *sips tea*
When Admiral Yamamoto said to another Admiral that they need to be united against the Army prior to the joint service meeting in the movie Midway (2019), thats only when I speculated there was maybe some minor rivalry between the IJA and IJN, but never thought they hated each other so much to the point where the Army has its navy and the Navy has its own army.
He meant because the army wanted war and the navy didn't.
This definitely explains some things. Great work. Thank-you!
"Imagine having soldiers but not being able to fight in the ocean."
This comment was made by the IJN gang.
Imagine having soldiers, but cannot conquer a single meter square of land.
This comment was made by the IJA gang.
@@dallasyap3064 sailors and soldiers are the same thing
Imagine build a big ass battleship only to be sunk by a bunch of airplanes
This comment was made by the IJA gang
“Imagine putting your own sailers in a metal coffin.”
This comment was made by the IJA gang
@@colem_h sailor
The last time i was this early, Weimar Germany was still suffering from hyperinflation.
So 100 years ago?
@@TheFront We should treat our Centurions with respect.
This is what we should stop if we can time travel back in time.
Had you been fingerprinted by that point in time? I presume not otherwise I believe we would have an identity for the one currently known as "el stinkio" aka "stinkie pinkie". The one who is now believed to be responsible for leaving his fingerprint in a certain someones back front bottom rear bumhole. No names but justice will be a bit of a shock to the team if there are more than 1 of you. Do you work in pairs? I only ask as it seems to be a well coordinated operation, well oiled machine if you like. You can use your own fingers immediately after the event? Yes? Mmmmm, interesting. What can I say about that though? That's all you big man.
$1400 stimulus check for every American has entered the chat...
I am 63yo, WW2 history buff all my life, dad and uncle in the US army, and an uncle stationed in Japan after (in USAF). So love every detail. But, in addition to interesting historical detail here, this was the most simple, uniquely cogent explanation of the pre-history of Japan in WW2, and how central the rivalry was to Japan both starting & losing the Pac War. Many thanks. Will watch it several times, as a guide to read more detail.
Great video! I knew the Army and Navy hated each other but never knew why nor did I realize just HOW BADLY they hated each other. Great video, very informative, thanks for posting.
I had heard about the rivalry between the IJA and IJN many times before but had no idea how bad it really was. Wow.
IKR? I think calling it a "rivalry" is a serious euphemism - makes it sound like two high school cliques.
The IJA ended up building their own aircraft carriers and submarines because the IJN didn’t let them use the aircraft carriers and submarines they already had. Seriously.
They hated each other more than they hated the enemy they fought.
It's some anime ass drama lmao
I've known about this for many years. I read the book Japan's Imperial Conspiracy by David Bergamini when I was in college in the 1970's. In this book the army was called the strike north faction and the navy was the strike south faction. His main premise was that Emperor Hirohito was the behind the scenes leader of the naval strike south faction, (he led from behind the curtain as the Japanese say), and was not the powerless figure head that many western histories claim him to be. As a matter of fact the figure head story was a concocted cover story to save the Emperor's face and to save him from the hangman for the many war crimes he authorized. Douglas MacArthur also found this cover story to be useful since he planned to use Hirohito to build a new more democratic and hopefully peaceful Japan. An example of how this worked is who was hung for the 1937 rape of Nanjing. The man hung was General Matsui who was reactivated from a forced retirement, (the retirement was forced because Matsui supported the 1936 strike north army revolt that Hirohito suppressed), to command the Nanjing expedition. However, during the rape Matsui was out of action with a severe tuberculosis attack. The man who actually carried out the orders for the rape that came from the Imperial H.Q. that Hirohito had established on his palace grounds was Prince Asaka who was Hirohito's uncle by marriage. Needless to say neither Hirohito or Asaka were ever charged for this war crime and General Matsui gladly covered for the Emperor in his pathetic defense and went proudly to the gallows to protect his Imperial master.
"Fustercluck". Okay, I'm writting that one down.
evasion 100
Rimmy really milks that phrase for all it's worth.
Wondering if that term is used outside Aus? Maybe UK?
I'm a WW2 history nut, and I found this very informative. Thanks for sharing!
I knew their was rivalry between both services, but not to that extent. Thank you for the video!
The rivalry goes much deeper. Two clans, or provinces, Satsuma and Choshu, were intense rivals. After the modernization of Japan, for geographic and other reasons, the Satsuma developed into a naval oriented power, and the Choshu an Army oriented power. That rivalry led to the problems identified in this perceptive article.
Yet, they both fought together in the Boshin War to bring into power the Emperor.
I’m writing a story on this, do you have any resources where I could find more information on this rivalry
This is an interesting perspective.
@@Taiko-THC349 The Satcho Alliance was one of convenience because they agreed that the old regime had to fall. Even so the old rivalry was still fierce and Sakamoto Ryoma of the Tosa Domain had to work really hard to get them to support each other. Once their common enemy was gone, they both dominated the new government and the rivalry heated back up again.
@@Nolaris3 I’m covering the history of these two clans from the 1800s to wwII- there’s a book called “Scottish Samurai” which is VERY good at explaining the rivalry and temporary cooperation of these two
The rivalry started from the Siege of Port Arthur during the Russo Japanese war. IJA suffered so many losses for an IJN strategic objective. IJA also had jealousy for the fame after Admiral Togo's decisive victory at the battle of Tsushima which brought the Russian to surrender. IJA thought it was them who had sacrificed so much for the victory because without them, IJN couldn't annihilate Russian Eastern Pacific squadron at Port Arthur and prevented that squadron to join the Russian reinforcement fleet from the Baltic.
Not to mention that, the IJN had different and sometimes a more humane treatment of POW and local population than the brutal IJA with their army secret police (Kenpetai), an equivalent of Nazi Gestapo.
IJN also committed a lot of atrocities.
@@haroldcruz8550 yes, that's why I said "more humane" rather than "humane"
This is terrific. Very good graphically and even better in its clear explanation.
Thank you very much. I learned a lot today. Keep up the good work.
As potential history once said, “the imperial Japanese navy and army... undercutting each other until the very end”
Good stuff
One question, is this still a thing or not
@@lesshairul3459 I doubt it, since it’s a new nation with a new military system
They hated each other even after they lost the war.
the island hopping campaigns were already brutal, just imagine how it could've been if the IJN an IJA worked together
10:36 A surprising Steve Rambo cameo, but a welcome one. 10/10 Excellent narration and research!
11:03 Yea, at first, me, an Indonesian thought that Yamato is a name of a japanese hotel in surabaya where the dutch fly their flags there, then cause a ruckus that leads to Mallaby's death and 3-weeks long battle of Surabaya
They argued who caused them to lose the war? The both of them, they couldn't work together and thusly failed on a basic level that crippled their nation.
Pretty sure it was the bomb.
many axis leaders are stupid example of hitler killing his generals and admirals that caused him to lose the war.
They lost the war the moment they thought "hey, let's declare war on the two largest naval powers while also fighting a land war against China, this will go great!". It was an unwinnable war from day one. The navy and army's infighting and general insanity just made the Japanese collapse happen even faster.
The US military also learnt this the hard way too. Operation Urgent Fury, American troops have to use tourist maps bcoz the US military didnt even have an accurate of the island nation. There were also some inter-service miscommunication and different procedures etc. Operation Eagle Claw, ring any bells? Inter-service miscommunication and different procedures etc also contributed to the collision killing the few service members and making the aborted mission to appear from fail grade E to F. After that only JSOC was established and few years later USSOCOM.
@@meramakeit7628 What general or admiral did Hitler kill before the assassination attempt on his life?
Little known fact: When Japan was first starting to modernize Great Britain helped to modernize the Japanese Navy while Germany helped to modernize the Japanese Army and since both countries provided the foundations for both military services rivalries were bound to arise because they sat on different foundations. And it also didn't help that Britain and Germany would become enemies years later. Nicely informative video.
Broken Bridge Wait, doesn't Chile do the same--use the British model for its navy and the Prussian model for its army? Methinks someone in Santiago is sweating right now...
@@angbandsbane---And is their bitter service rivalries in Chile?
@@brokenbridge6316 Well if they're like every other military I'm familiar with, there's SOME kind of rivalry. Beats me how severe beyond that--by and large, I was joking around, dude
@@angbandsbane---I get the feeling it's very severe. Because different branches of either government or the military that rest on separate foundations likely have severe rivalries going on and that isn't good.
@@angbandsbane---Also it's tough to tell when someone is joking online. Have you ever noticed that. Because my attempts at it resulted in some very strange misunderstandings. Which is why I stopped.
Poor Hirohito!!
I'm sure that nobody ever told him that most of his job from 1931-1945 would be the baby sitting and supervising a bunch of squabbling (adult?) children. To call the behavior of the high command of BOTH military services "infantile" would be over-praising them!
Complete INSANITY!
this video is very biased and over simplified. Maybe read actual documents instead of getting biased accounts from youtube videos.
Hirohito mostly remained silent during Imperial Conferences (except for the famous "winds and waves" poem). I am still convinced that this was because due to watching the sheer imbecility of his ministers, he was unable to utter a single word.
Imagine being the emperor who can be assassinated by both sides if he doesn't let them do what they want.
Which makes me quetion If there idea of the Emperor A God is not fanatical and nothing more but flattery.
@@jadeimingan184 hey, you know what Seneca says about religion. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." The emperor was just an empty shell which was supposed to do what the real rulers wanted to do.
Thei4 "divine " Emperor should have banged some heads together !
One of the zaibatsu rivalries actually continues until now. Nakajima aircraft company (now Subaru) with IJN vs Mitsubishi heavy industries with IJA.
Huh, I thought that since Mitsubishi built Sendai (IJN ship) they'd be on Navy side.
@@A7XFan800 Not to mention most of the naval squadrons use the Mitsubishi A6M Zero fighter.
"just because we're on the same team doesn't mean we aren't enemies"
In the end we all know the navy won. That's why they had sailor uniform in school not khaki pants
IJA: *gets face caved in by Red Army in Siberia
IJN: "Heh. Look at those DOODS."
IJN: *Gets obliterated by the US navy
IJA: "Heh. Look at those DOODS."
There was an incident where the IJN heavy cruiser Mogami fired torpedoes at an American ship, missed, and hit five IJA transports and a minesweeper. The IJN only cared about the minesweeper.
damn
"Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." - Matthew: 12:25.
Pretty much.
No union, only disintegration.
That desolation is radioactive.
Who's Matthew?
Ok bible thumper.
I had no idea that the enmity between the two services was not only so longstanding, but so inimical to the WWII fighting effort. Apparently, getting ALL your weapons, ground-based OR sea-based, pointing in the same direction, is actually essential to winning a war. Who knew? Thanks for a great video! I love learning something I didn't know before!