DAVROS & THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS (Doctor Who's Broke Canon)
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2022
- Find out why Davros' face keeps changing and which companion has a thing for incest! Special thanks to Seán for his great contribution.
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Fenric: I think you're more evil than me
The Doctor: Welcome to the Wilderness Years
Thank god no Big Finish story ever went in that direction
Thatchos met one of the Morbius Doctors, they’re cannon in my heart.
She could have met an alternate seventh doctor but he was later reverted back into calling baker by a paradox
Due to the childmaster from titan Existing as a future incarnation Of the master who is Reverted back into the war master before regenerating later. Into the saxon master
We could now just say that the non caring. And doctors are just regenerations that We're undone
I can’t believe the comic ending, where Ace just straight up dies is a better ending for her than the one intended by her creator… just… no…
I’m partial to the time lord destiny ending from Death Comes to Time myself, but yeah - this is gross
That wasnt a quick joke btw, Narnia actually does have a multiverse. It was in the books.
Is it bad that I think I have a harder time imagining Ace being a countess?
Oh my gosh... That Ace fact was incredible.
Wait, wait, wait. 6:25 is that you? I'm a huge McCoy fan. And that was excellent. Nope that's your colab partner. Still excellent.
Can we admit that one of the most interesting things is that the 13th Doctor has collections of her own adventures in the TARDIS with the titles from Episodes.
That ones coming up!
@@SamyulDavis What about the 12th Doctor's video to Thomas (Capaldi did a video to a child named Thomas in the Character of the 12th Doctor).
The many ways that some characters write / store adventures is one and the show being meta with its actors is another
Haha. Love the McCoy impression.
'Though apparently 'an invalid source', whatever that is...'
Damn that 7 is seamless
Time war 4 was amazing! It's up there with the lives of Captain Jack volumes for me. And yeah, julian Bleach's (sorry if I spelled that wrong) Davros and Terry Meloy's Davros will always be my favorites because of stuff like this.
SAM IS THE DOCTOR WHO PINBALL MACHINE PLOT CANON
Both are indeed and people have sent me great gameplay and assets for that very future segment!
I know you're poking fun DAVIS, but what are your opinions on the wiki's standards of "validity"? I can tell you as an editor there that many editors don't like certain aspects of the current standards, but getting those changed is proving difficult indeed.
It's perfect for encyclopedic purposes, but I'm a post-canon reader. Too many contradictions and misunderstandings in the concept when applied to fiction. All stories are true etc. If there's no intention of storytelling, then and only then I might break out the term non-canon :)
It is interesting, that Shalka Doctor and Curse of Fatal Death Doctor is technically canon to Doctor who. In Tomorrow Windows 8th Doctor saw his possible ninth incarnations with tomorrow windows, which shows people future. 8th Doctor saw Shalka and Curse in Window with some other doctors and Ninth Doctor.
P.S This means, that Ninth Doctor first actual appearance in Tomorrow Windows
Apparently the backstory of the scream of the salka doctor is that he's also the last of the time Lords so my head Cannon is that he's the unspecified 9th doctor at the end of Russell T Davis Doctor Who and the time War
damn I was really going with my theory that davros was secretly a timelord
Hmm, a hybrid perhaps?
Oof, I really don't like that it's a different Davros :o I always found his return was so impactful because unlike cybermen or macra, it's the same guy from those classic stories!
He still has other Davros' memories, but yeah. Realllly has weird implications for his character moments with the Doctor in the revival.
There’s nothing that outright says he replaces the “prime universe” Davros. This parallel Davros's story isn't over yet, and even if he, for whatever reason, did replace the original Davros and is the one we see in NewWho, how do we explain Dalek Caan's history post-Evolution of the Daleks?
@@radioactivecheesenowinnucl4746 The Caan involvement is a contradiction no matter what conclusion you come to, but my main reasons for it are that it's trying to get the Daleks and Davros into their revival starting places. I think the fanservice is intended, otherwise we have to believe another identical Davros identity story is on the cards to reverse it all. I think Dorney's Davros is purposely written to be continuity error-proof with all the focus on the memories. At the end of the day the experiment still makes Davros as we know him, with all of classic Davros' memories.
@@SamyulDavis Fair enough, I just prefer the idea of there being two Davroses both living in the prime universe over the OG Davros just straight-up dying and the Palindrome Davros somehow becoming the NewWho Davros. I feel like Big Finish are gonna roll with the former idea in Time War 5 when it comes out (probably November / December this year).
Well I'm confused now. What is it that says those were all different versions of Davros? As far as I can discern from the wiki (which may be incomplete in this regard), the parallel Davros was fused with a bunch of other parallel versions and then they just… put him in storage? What does he have to do with the native N-Space version? And also… the whole reason the Daleks did this is because the Valeyard erased them from history? Goddamn it, Big Finish.
Lenny Henry would have actually made a good doctor
The DW multiverse was established long before the Cybus Industries world, no? It's mentioned, w/out using the word "multiverse," in "Zagreus" from Big Finish and at least one of the BBC Eighth Doctor books to explain why the Eighth Doctor BF stories and BBC books and comics don't all line up with each other. (This was a good idea, I think, though the Izzy and Destrii stories from the comics seem to fit with BF/New Who continuity. Izzy shows up in a DWM 12th Doctor comics story. Sam -- you covered that, right? You've done so many Broke Canon entries that I can't be sure I remember properly.) I haven't read any of the BBC books but it seems they're an extension of the 7th Doctor VNA stories, or at least they ended up that way.
Even in TV, we explored the multiverse way back in Inferno
the wolves of fenric may by a reference to viking Berserker warriors.Who would dress in animal skins and act like wild beasts .
Very few acknowledge Thatchos and Scongos alliance in the Bongos Of Scongo
I'm just gonna chalk up all that nonsense about multiple Davroses to Time War shenanigans that got removed from continuity due to all of the constant erasure and rewriting of timelines during the war.
So wait basically what they did was taking nice version of Davos and force implant classic Who the rose on to him creating the new devros
Oh god… I hate to be mr corrector… but the multiversal Davros is definitely not the same one as the revival as the nightmare child event was supposedly before this… and you said time controller the first time… then said it correctly the second time as time strategist but had a little bit of text to correct it… back to time controller😂 tbf they’re almost the same dude with the same name so fair enough.
Seriously though the fourth time war boxset with 8 is such an insane blast and it’s fun to see you covering it on broke canon, the kind of large scale concepts I’ve always wanted out of the time war… the real question is will big finish ever do anything with the War Thatchos 😂
Can't be before the nightmare child though! Caan picks him up the second he dies to the thing according to Don't Touch the Grass and The Third Wise Man!
@@SamyulDavis At the beginning of Palindrome part two, when the alternate Davros asks the Dalek Time Strategist why it doesn't just get the original Davros to help it, the Time Strategist says "In our universe he is long since lost, long since dead", seemingly indicating that Davros's "death" at the jaws of the Nightmare Child has already happened. Although The Third Wise Man has the War Doctor witness Davros's supposed death, the Time War audios seem to be running with the idea that it happened during the Eighth Doctor's time in the War. Given that we're dealing with events in the Time War, I don't see why continuity clashes should even be seen as "clashes" to begin with, as the Time War is, by its very nature, not a chronologically linear conflict.
@@radioactivecheesenowinnucl4746 I personally think the orginal Davros died long before time war (so did the dalek emperor) and this boxset brought them back, then they went through Third Wise Man and new series. It would make sense. The only problem would be no story so far has covered the deadth of Davros and Dalek Emperor in pre-war universe
I would've thought Terror Firma in a way showed the death of Davros/his emperor personality taking dominance but then I wonder how Davros goes from that to the Time War as I don't think there's any Davros story set between those two. Maybe Daleks Among Us but I have no idea where that story falls in Davros's timeline
@@metalgamer873 Daleks Among Us doesn't really help here. From Davros' perspective it comes right after Remembrance of the Daleks, but makes no attempt to reconcile with Terror Firma, and neither of the two stories' endings seem to clearly connect with any other Dalek stories. From the Daleks' perspectives, I'm not so sure, but they seem to be post-Remembrance too (might be Renegade Daleks, but their faction is never stated).
The gap between Remembrance of the Daleks and the Time War in Davros' personal timeline has always been a weird point of confusion, there appears to be no clear bridge between the two eras in Davros' life. Heck, we have three separate accounts of Davros' whereabouts immediately after Remembrance (Daleks Among Us, Terror Firma and War of the Daleks), none of which seem to connect together under the same continuity.
Though Dalek: The Astounding Untold History and the Dalek Combat Training Manual might help here, given that they both attempt to put all of Dalek history into a cohesive timeline. But I haven't checked them for this kind of thing myself.
Great Video!
Who is the 7 voice actor you got?
I got a Suggestion for broke cannon: Theoretically, Peter Capaldi (as a person) exists in the doctor who cannon. In the doctor who magazine, people could ask questions and the doctor would awnser them, thus theoretically making them cannon. Ifk if that has been covered yet, just thought this is an interesting piece of trivia. (Can be found on Peter Capaldi's Tardis Wiki Page)
You'll be shocked to learn this one is already written! Gonna put all the Meta stuff to bed.
Getting old but. its the previous (Mondasians origin whoniverse) then classic 1963-2006; 2010, 2013, 2014 (series 10 forgot year atm) and now new Whoniverse thats the main whoniverse in the show (most of the time since 2006 (with major exceptions for series 5 (50%ish and 10 (100%))).
We saw the 6th passover to the new Whoniverse (most likly) for a second.
We know the 7th got that letter from his future self (from inside the new Whoniverse)
We know travels between the main whoniversis are possible. (10th, 11th, 2nd (PC) and 3rd (JW) Curator all have done it since Mickey pressed that button for 30 sec in series 2.)
ALL instances of Wedding related stuff (including engagement ring) series 2-5 = A jump or more in that episode between the whoniversis.
Its been set up for a very long time:
Ghostlight last few scenes last episode;
The Ragnarookians (with the same fate as the Timelords; trapped in a schrödinger cat like state of both being alive and ascended at the same time (The Weeping angels of old = The Ragnarookians (Rassilons original ppl)) (The ppl from the end of time; which the Weeping angels inside the new Whoniverse also are as The Master burnt Gallifrey with Rassilons nightmare child plan/device aka the new key to time (for the new Whoniverse in the same moment Gallifrey was frozen))
The Daleks in the different whoniversis have the same origin from different Davroses as the timeline for the Daleks origin remains untouched (until the Bad Wolf erases then; still happening; and have been happening since we first saw them bk in 1963)
The Davros we saw in series 9 was from BEFORE the Davros we saw in series 4 (same whoniverse) & The Daleks we saw in series 2 was from the new Whoniverse (using the void ship)
Palindrome is my favourite Big Finish story ever!
Does this come anywhere close to explaining how the Bronze NSD dalek design came to be, was it a new paradigm or a progressive design from the classics?
11 year old me has wanted to know for the longest damn time. It'll be in a textbook somewhere.
@@SamyulDavis could you do a video on it maybe? That'd be so awesome
Time War 4 was a great way of putting conflicting accounts of what happened to Davros post-Remembrance together. This video explains it very well: ua-cam.com/video/9w8PJeclWlE/v-deo.html
Didn’t one book write for the changing looks of Davros was due to the life support healing/regenerating his necrotising flesh?
I think it was the Remembrance Of The Daleks novel that said that he has reconfigured himself many times.
The Dalek survival handbook! Wish I'd included it as a canon contradiction
@@damianbrophy6481 I bet you the only reason he never fully fixed his body is because he treats his war-damaged body like a badge of honor
Apparently Batman is a timelord in the whoniverse, just putting it out there
I think there is other reasons for Davros, self necrosing flesh or some such. As his final form on the restoration cover is still molloys face
To be fair if Davos can make an army out of the skin on his chest he definitely has gone through a couple of bodies like a knockoff Time Lord which given that the dark seem to be set on becoming knock off time Lords
@@plantainsame2049 The question I have is if Davros can get a new body why doesn't he make one where he doesn't look like he has one foot in the grave...or a foot, period
@@redjirachi1 I don't know
Does that Sean guy have his own channel?
yeah apparently in n-space or something there are word lords instead of time lords where the word lords warp reality using words obviously
Definitely not n-space As that's where the normal ones live
That's what the doctor's universe is called
@@plantainsame2049 sorry I meant to say e-space I think
@@WTSD850 Yeah, they're not from there Because this isn't that like right next door
The word lords are from like a Hundreds of multi verses over
It’s not actually confirmed that the multiverse amalgam Davros is the one that features in The Stolen Earth?
It's a super transitional story to get everyone into revival starting places. For this to not be revival Davros we'd need a whole identical identity story to reverse it. I just think that's more unlikely than not. Plus Caan's involvement means that Davros leaves the war permanently at that time, so I doubt the Nightmare child event(s) were prior to this boxset.
@@SamyulDavis The Time Strategist does say that Davros is long dead by this point in the war though, and when the merging is starting Nice-Davros can hear one of his alternative selves screaming "Nooo, not the Nightmare Child!!".
I think it could go either way, looking forward to whatever they do next because for instance awesome just add Terry Molloy
@@HiveFleetOni For this to be set then, you gotta ask the question of why does Caan hypothetically rescues Davros from the time war...only to drop him back off. Perhaps that's a multiverse Davros we can hear there?
Another video from daddy cannon
Davros looks exactly like my grandma
Did you say "My Nan has a Multi-Verse" or "My Naan has a Multi-Verse"!? ....I wasn't sure which one we were supposed to be focusing on in the image provided?!
An "invalid source" on TARDIS Wiki is a story or release that is either not set in-universe (e.g. it constantly breaks the fourth wall or is clearly a parody, particularly if the writers outright say so) or is non-narrative (it lacks a clear narrative structure - a beginning, middle and end, basically). Hence Thatchos's page has an "invalid source" tag to clearly identify that it's from a parody. It's not designating something as "non-canon".
I know that TARDIS Wiki can seem bluntly obvious at times, or stupidly formal, but it's a wiki with a lot of love and effort put into it. I'm not trying to be patronising or whatever, I'm just someone who edits on it frequently and does a lot of extensive research into stories so that I can make a story's wiki pages as high-quality as I can. Though I do often wonder whether anyone beyond the wiki's editors really care about it; I don't see it talked about much, but I have seen it get ridiculed somewhat (not that I don't agree with some of it).
It's not ridicule, I just personally myself don't try to invalidate stories. I know why the wiki does so for encyclopedic purposes, but this series operates on a bit of a different mantra :) (it isn't sarcasm or pisstaking btw, I genuinely think the wiki and the page are great and I add to it myself)
@@SamyulDavis Ah yeah that’s a good approach for this series. Cool to know you also edit on the wiki, I think it's a great way to learn about non-TV Doctor Who without burning loads of cash (though there’s always gonna be a lot that still needs doing).
Your McCoy is so good
My friend Seán!
Is he a professional voice actor cause that’s big finish level of impression
that was mad 🤣
If Ace is a Direct descendant of a viking, as the curse of fenric et al states, then how come she has a surname of Irish Origin, "McShane"
hmmmm
Her mum married a man named McShane
The Vikings raided Irish places in our world. Not a big stretch to think the same thing happened in the Whoniverse.
I'd imagine you've already heard of this one but check out the second doctor 60s comics. We meet the... the fucking Cyber ski patrol 🤣 go read Eskimo Joe I'll send the link
The Lodger 15:09
I know the frame well. I've been shown many unrelated photos of Smith's junk and I don't know how to feel about it.
What does this mean? 🤔
The great grandson ace fact is the fake one. Please respond, i need to know if I’m right. And post the rose is the white guardian video. VILLAIN, MURDERER!!
If I answer too many it'll become obvious! But no, the Ace fact is totally true
U say that it’s the first time the multiverse is mentioned but it’s not. We knew there were other universes from the age of steel episodes.. multiverse isn’t a new concept in doctor who. Awesome video tho
Oh so that's why they fell out
Why do you keep bringing up Marvel when complaining about how “everyone’s got a multiverse”? They’ve had it since the 70s.
Don't bother with Big Finish. What's the point if you can't see what's going on? It's a waste of time.
You use your imagination. That's literally the point.
@@Lwaku_ My point obviously went over your head. I don't pay my TV licence fee to "use my imagination" but you on the other hand are obviously quite happy to be shafted and screwed over. Big Finish robs the fan base of a visual experience like no other. These audio productions are at best, a mediocre cheap knock off, a sad runner up prize.
Dude you are robbing yourself of an amazing storytelling medium. I’m not just talking about Big Finish, but all audio drama.
@@pp-wl1tf Already tried and just isn't anywhere close with the VFX missing. I "do" however, listen to Audible books because the authors actually give descriptive aids as to what's going on.
No, science fiction and fantasy audio drama is extremely lazy not to mention tight arsed penny pinching production ethics. The Doctor deserves far better.
The lazy, lazy comics line didn't even compose a full soundtrack- conning their readership as usual