Hey I had an idea. What if they put like a mini game in for clerics like they did for bard. How bard hits the patterns for songs maybe like cleric needs to "flip through the divine book" to the correct religious texts or whatever to cast the spell. Essentially a re flavored bard mechanic but for spells would be cool imo
You know what's crazy? In 2018, I worked for the owners of Ark survival evolved, which was a Chinese parent company. The owner of the company admitted to me once that he had a team of college kids in China keeping his base up while he was offline, and he was paying for their degrees and housing in exchange for making his clan the biggest in any server. Others in the company (could be gossip) said if his base got raided, he would stop funding their tuition. Steam reviews isolated the clan name but didn't connect it to the owner.
@@Orriioonn27honestly I think all casting classes would rather have something like this if they didn't have to sit to recover spells! Maybe not as hard of a mini game though.
He's really articulate about issues. I think his opinions are often on the mark and I really enjoy his creative metaphors 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this episode above others
When I started, I played about 15 games with no clue how to exit. I was having fun, so I found streams and videos (like you guys) to get the basics. Even if it's just reading, they really need a lexicon of information in the game. great vid
They had a tutorial in the playtests. It was that "For Fopdoodles Only" button which brought up a little tutorial notebook thing. Whyd they remove that??
It was written very satirically if I recall correctly, but it provided some useful info... and if it stuck around we'd be calling them Fopdoodles instead of Timmies!
Really like the dynamic of these 4 lads. The calmness that Notlikethis has brings more more room for Jay. Soma is a great host and spud is a complete win. Altho, I'm also looking forward for the scuffest hour with Donny. I would also like to see Soma to start aggressing Jay more again to finnaly book his vacation with hopefully a Jay vacation vlog on the horizon.
the forgotten castle is the geographical area, the howlling crypts are the location inside the castle, upper castle was The ruins, down the castle is the inferno
@@nugenesis69420 Exactly! This has been another consistent problem with the game. They might have recently changed this but for a long time the rogue backstab perk said "when attacking from behind gain 30% (I think?) "backstab power" like what? Backstab power is not a thing in the game. Do they mean physical power? Do they mean 30% damage bonus? Those are real terms in the game that have stats attached, backstab power is nothing and the fact they chose to use those words is just needlessly confusing.
@@Rwnds7967 yeah, there's a lot of tool tips that aren't accurate. Another example is light orb for wizard, it doesn't tell you that it unstealths rogues.
The comment soma made about "i wonder how many people download the game. Try it once and NEVER return." To give you a metric. Of my like 9 friend group, only 3, including me, tried. Those 2 quit after day 2 because "This game is fucking horrible" can't get them to even try it again. We never got gear or made a ton of money just died a bunch of times and got off.
Total opposite for my brother's group. Because he had played the game before so he managed to get his group of 6 to keep playing the game until it became their conversation topic during break time. And they are playing it every night now.
@aaronbrandon2321 the problem with elden ring and this game. Is elden ring feels very fair when you die 90% of the time. This game when you first download it makes nothing clear as they described. Dying feels just fucking stupid. Especially before the squire when there was 0 healing unless you bought it. Many times you would get hit when it looks like you wouldn't. Just because you don't know holding S is a throw for example against a goblin lol. Die to mobs 6x in a row, then get instantly killed by the first 3 players you see. And your never logging on again.
This was one hell of an episode boys. Also don't worry spuddy. Some of us know it's not all timmies. Been dealing with people say all I do is kill timmies all wipe cuz I've been playing normals lol. Even playing 1v3 longsword somehow people think everyone that plays is brand new only lol
am I alone in thinking that longsword is op? Feels like literally every single fighter/warlock is running around with one, and the kill feeds are almost entirely pvp deaths from longswords lol.
Spudman has such a way with words. And also NotLikeThisJoe is a fantastic lad, very happy to have him in the community, and I hope he gets the job at Ironmace
They should get the Narrator from Darkest Dungeon to describe a pve tutorial level pointing out key details, such as gear score and combat, evasion, spells, perks etc (or talk the gamer through like an episode of Nightmare the TV show) That would add a lot of flavor. I think PVE repeatable level for each map would be fine - allow extraction process, but everything is "removed" at the end so you can't keep anything but you can use the level to learn fighting AI types and how to map, how to navigate and go through the mechanics.
Great podcast today, Jay went absolutely ballistic with the rant at the end and everything he said was 100% right and I hope the devs look into making some changes especially for getting people into HR lobbies and adding back some of the old crypts layouts. I also don’t think SSF is viable or possible to implement into the game as it is rn it would be dead on arrival just because it Doubles the queues. I think the best implementation would be that there is absolutely no trading for the first week or 2 of wipe for anyone as an “early wipe event”
I agree that the most fun im having is -25 and the -125 lobbies. But i still get that big dopamine rush from finding good items because i can sell them for more 124 kits. In my experience the higher the gearscore the less fun i have.
Probably aren’t great at building a kit yet then tbh. There’s quite a few classes in the game (roughly half) that are severely gimped from their potential without a fair bit of gold investment. Say 2k for a budget kit but once u have that 2k kit on it really changes the feel of the class massively and they feel significantly better to play where some classes can get away with just squire gear and feel the same
@@wideout7838 I know how to build high end kits, it’s just not fun gameplay when everyone at that level is 2 shotting each other. Also the cheater problem is way more prevalent in those gear brackets
@@Farmer_Rick_Ross fights last much longer in the higher brackets tho lol which you’d know if you actually played them. Pdr classes r taking legit 10 hits to die in the higher brackets sometimes more depending on the conditions and people have much better healing and movespeed to reset and continue fights extending them whereas in low gear brackets pretty much every class kills every other class in 2-4 hits and has far less ability to reset fights to more neutral positions and drag them out longer
@@wideout7838 bro what are you on about? That “10 shot PDR class” dies in 2 zaps from a geared wizard, and kited by a warlock/ranger. Stop projecting lmao. I’ve been playing since PT2. The mass majority of the community also agrees that higher gearscore lobbies aren’t as fun.
@@Farmer_Rick_Ross no the vast majority of NEW players agree with that sentiment and it’s 1 cuz they’re poor and have gear fear and 2 cuz they’re players against much better players which they don’t enjoy being stomped by. Also cleric barb fighter w 2nd wind popped easily living all 5 zaps lol 🤣 n let’s not get on ranger whose barely hurting cleric fighter unless it’s a point blank shotgun to the face lol. It’s inarguable that the melee classes can stand there and smack each other 8-12 times in geared lobbies and 2-4 times in squire gear. We can jump in raid if u want n put some gold on it if u think ur right but I’m sure u won’t cuz u know u aren’t. Also getting kites doesn’t mean the ttk isn’t much higher lol if the ranger warlock have to kite someone for 2.5 mins just to kill them instead of just landing 3 shots then that means people are lasting much longer lmao
Another Idea for the 3rd party...4th party...5th party issue in HR....Magic Lock for wizard...increase the duration to 30 seconds, increase the spell slot to 4, and increase the impact resistance to the door u cast it on to atleast 7. That way you can straight up say NO to a party trying to push when there is a door. Make it to where you can only have one door locked at a time though. When a door is Magic Locked, make it have a visual effect, and allow spell pred from warlock to eat it. That way theres atleast some counter play. ALSO, for wizard. Add a skill called Spell Steal. You Cast it on a target that has a magical effect, and it eats that effect. It then is converted into a tick of charge per spell slot level that you ate. It would be similiar to spell predation, but different enough to be unique. It would also allow a Wizard to be able to regain spell slots, potentially, mid fight.
Its also wild that they didnt even show it in discord patch notes that they made 124 lobbies, i get it how not every little detail needs to be shown in patch notes, but the gearscore lobby change is pretty big thing to not show to players
They def should mimic Hunt show downs tutorial, fight some mobs with diffrent weapons how to defend with a shield and that campies give back certain abilities.
Idea. When you die to PVE, on the spectator screen...add a new option rather than just exit and whatever. Add a "Survival Tips" Button. You click it and whatever you died to, whether it be a mob or a location, Ironmace shows you a brief video of how to beat that obstacle. "Died to a skeleton archer? Here watch this video to learn how to avoid the arrows" "Died to a flame trap?" Video shows you waiting for the flame trap to go down XD. ALSO, Cleric is OP, bard can be op... yes... but theres one way to hard shut them down and laugh at them as you dance on their bodies...Warlocks with Spell Predation.
Haha that's so funny. The only way to make that more troll would be to have Clippy the paperclip pop up and say "ooh, looks like you're having trouble in the dungeon."
@@searingscar8058 Spell Pred is amazing, wdym? Just cause something isnt being used doesnt mean it isnt usefull. FOr example, i come from Overwatch.. Back in the day WIdowmaker was considered USELESS and resulted in auto-avoids like crazy. Now, a good widowmaker can easily run a lobby. The same concept with a good warlock running spell pred. You can get 10 charges of dark shards with spell pred and the perk combined. Thats 300 percent damage to your next shadow spell...Think about that.... With white gear on you can do 52ish damage on a headshot with 0 shards, vs a training dummy (5% magic resist on dummys)....With 5 shards, that is 104 dmg...with 10 shards that is 156 dmg from a 1 second cast against a target that has no magic buffs on them, cause you just ate them. Imagine what better gear would look like damage wise. Built properly, a warlock would oneshot anyone. Spell pred is the most slept on spell in the game. FOR EXAMPLE, just yesterday i was running 24 gearscore with the just the perk, had 5 shards up and i came across a barb. He engaged, i cast weakness on him, then meme beam. HE DIED IN 1 SECOND FLAT. I looted him and he was also 24 gs, so it wasnt a gear diff. It wasnt a timmy. He just didnt have any chance of an outplay once he committed.
@@crossc1988 Same experience with other games too. Example: Heroes of the Storm. (I know its dead now), but in season 1 I was running Abathur a lot and my team would always flame me at character select. Fast forward a couple weeks and im drowning in praise after every game and easily got to Rank1 in competitive lol. People dont understand games anymore, they only understand what people tell them in youtube videos.
Nobody laughing at SpudHunter's shower comment at 1:10:22 and jay just shaking his head made me get second hand embarrassment, but it was so hilarious. I like the energy he brings in. Bringing in NotLikeThis is was great, but it's even better because he seems like the complete opposite of SpudHunter
Good one, I also like TheSpudHunter energy. Feels like he was on this podcast since day one. With Jay being more chill and Spud being crazy fun, their energy complement each other. Looking forward to next one. I hope you guys reach out to @CNG Blade sometime. Since he is one of the rare wizards that is positive about the class still. I would like to see their takes clashing with Jay. Also it would be appropriate since we are heading to revamp for the class with the sorcerer on the horizon. Anyway great episode keep up the good content!c
I definitely agree with gutting all ranged damage besides ranger. Then you can tune the ranger and all ranged damage with ranger data. It would make balancing much easier and would allow wizard to actually be more useful at the same time
Optional, replayable tutorial run that rewards the player one time with like, 5 stacks of potions and bandages. 5 or so minutes with melee, ranged and flying enemy, shows you to barrels and pots
5 might be too much but come on. 10 stacks of meds aren't gonna turn a Timmy into a pubstomper. They will lose those meds in 2 runs lol. It's about softening the blow initially. After that it's up to them to learn and get better
@@4WOF i get it and all, but they already get free pots, bandies and campfires in squire. Do we really need to hold their hand that tight? All of us learnt how to play the game without handouts, why do they need it that badly?
This game is so much more balanced than it gets credit for. Not perfect, but if you listened to these complaints and/or read the reddit you would be drowned in group think.
Spud is absolutely correct. HR and high gear score feels bad to play because it’s full of people geared up in the most cheese builds. Rondel dagger PDR fighter, 40 agi demon warlock, etc.
Great podcast fellas. Please with the small tutorial for new players, 2-3 mobs and showing healing and very basic 101 is much needed for player retention, thank you guys for bringing it up again. The squire needs to be explained and shown off, I’m still seeing people running around with no shoes on.
so downloaded the game as a first timer about 5 days ago..... it played solo until lvl 15 as a druid with out ever extracting just dieng over and over and over..... it was rough but i'm a glutton for punishment and play lots of hard core games in this genre... it wasn't until 5 hours in i switched to ranger and the game changed for me (way easier to kite).... i'll say this i wish their was a way to honor a guy i met in duos called pugelistpete, he was awesome and explained to me how to find extraction points.... my first 4 hours were grueling before i had the nerve to jump in duos.... this was a rough learning curve... what we need is a 3 room dungeon as a tutorial. Room 1 you spawn (no class) with just a sword, you walk into the next room there is a single skeleton with shield and sword and they have to fight this skeleton to get through this level. in the third room have a spider spawner an exit with no torches on then after maybe a minute the lights will turn on and they can leave.
I’m only in about the 40 minute mark but yes. I tried to get about 4 friends into the game and only one stayed and then quit after a month and the one friend who stayed admitted to using wall hacks and he made a statement amongst the lines of “well I thought you were using it and it seems like everyone else online does”
As a new player I think having a mode like sub 25 but the difference is that loot won’t spawn and quests won’t track. You can go in either solo or as a team but there would be no other teams. This would just help with the grind of learning bosses and maps. Maybe even have it so you can choose to go to inferno/abyss right from the start. That or just have it be the Gobbo caves that are allowed for the “practice tool.”
quite a bit involved if you play on steam but you could fairly reliably accomplish this by playing on the test server, but thats only available through the blacksmith launcher
I was able to get my friends into the game bc I was able to guide them but I think going in with 0 clue is very tough. I tried to bring them into PvP in the first few games. Once the team fight started everyone was screaming and we won the fight I knew I had them hooked. That thrill of a PvP win is everything.
@@Pwnopolis I disagree pvp is not ass.I mean do people play Fortnite to go do the pve locations? All my friends play competitive games so taking them into squire gear PvP was a better choice than them dying to a skeleton and thinking “well that was boring” but getting a kill in PvP bring adrenaline and excitement so that’s what I wanted them to feel.
@@Pwnopolis if you think the player base has weird PvP obsession you must be a newer player. Anyone who has been playing the game for while feels pve is trivial and brings no excitement.
Re: new player experience As someone who got into the game with steam, and is now pretty deep in the weeds of the game it is actually insane how little information is provided to learn the game. I'm pretty sure the game doesnt even tell you HOW TO EXTRACT IN AN EXTRACTION GAME. It feels like they dont want new people to play their game, I bet a writer could knock out some in universe turorial prompts in a week. Hopefully they take a page out of dungeonborne's tutorial, which I found was really nice. Then when you do get past that, if you want to do quests they tell you kill things and do things with no instructions on how to do it. Example: one starting quest is to get gold bars. Gold. Only accessible by double bossing Goblin caves... As a first quest. How is a new player expected to accomplish this? Tailor wants you to kill like 20 mobs in inferno
@@gabriellessa7706your gonna get good at any game you put time into. We are talking about the amount of time needed to learn basic concepts in the game. Your dated as fuck with this take my dude
New players are really bad at reading it seems. Did you forget the part where the description says "unforgiving, hardcore"? Also, you know youtube tutorials and the discord exists right? There's a whole ass discord dedicated towards teaching new players, but you steam players can't read 😂😂
@@Vigil129 if you're not in the discord, you're trolling. I didn't use youtube videos and I learnt to play the game just fine, it was also much much much much harder back then. The game description says "unforgiving, hardcore", its quite literally meant to be unforgiving and hardcore, its not our fault if new players can't read and expect to be babied.
The problem with caster druid is even if they get magical healing scaled they'd still have to get quite a few more damaging spells to make it worth it. We can't use crystal sword so melee we will be useless building magic damage and that feels terrible.
They definitely don’t need crystal sword lol spear is a great weapon for them. Caster cleric still uses Morningstar which doesn’t have any benefit with magic damage or power or healing they’d be building
I'm actually very new to this game, came onto NotlikeThis off of the aforementioned budget gear setups, just because they're fun to watch (not that I have the trader unlocked yet xD). This was a fantastic sort of summary of game development, especially when you have multiple agendas. Counterplay is key, gear absolutely throws a wrench in there. No one should be helpless in a matchup and should have options, but when you have a class that does everything that's obviously moot. Powerful effects should have tradeoffs and the easiest way to do that is through positioning/spacing (but god do I hate that when I DON'T KNOW WHERE ANYTHING IS xD (starting as ranger is rough lol)). ~~On that note as an aside as a "timmy" wondering lost around a map, that I have no way to know the contents of without watching extensive content on youtube btw (unless that's also hidden somewhere in the merchants back pocket xD). I'll say as a new player I would love more clarity in the map, it's a right of passage, I get that, but it's hard enough getting random ganked out of places you didn't know about while also having no clue where you're going. And of course the icing on the cake to have an extraction already taken lol (AND THE FKING TORCHES WERE STILL ON (Ice caverns, one time use, first time playing on the map, how could I have known it wouldn't come back down in addition to, and I'm assuming, you can only access it from the ground level xD). So in summary, I'd like to be able to play the game and have access to information clearly: where shit is, how it works, a hotspot map of where people go for pvp wouldn't hurt. Absolutely squire, I got lucky a friend helped at the start, that merchant system is beyond antiquated and confusing xD the ability to quickly menu through shops would be nice too, unless there's a way to quickly do that which I haven't discovered yet lol. the starting quest system is also odd, the rewards don't seem worth it outside of xp which is easily gained, since I'll lose it the next match anyways (I also fell for the, and I assume trap, where shop purchased items don't count towards the rewards so they have to be farmed (also doesn't feel like they track properly, but maybe you need to extract for it to count). also I suck at summarizing, but I blame that on watching this ;P tldr; more info, especially on extracts for sure (codex is fine, I don't need my hand held) basic outline of early objectives and the best way of doing that main issues are for sure gear, and mobility creep, but that's absolutely the pitfall of so many games.
Great conversation as usual. The new meditate makes me feel like an actual wizard. Feels bad not being able to have 10 spells though. Also agree that druid heals need scaling to be viable. Feral druid is so bad atm too, but its really strong in solos. I run cat and bear with a mix of str and agi. Costs a lot to run, but you can dominate solo lobbies
When a game is relatively simple, like Fortnite or Apex, Timmies can learn by trial-by-fire. You have a gun, you shoot, boom. The ui in these games tells enough for Timmies to press buttons and learn about healing, nades, ext., ntm they have a tutorial island. Games like DaD, Tarkov, ect., are generally harder games. Some handholding needs to be present for most people. It's a unique beast to tackle for most people just so they understand the basics of how to play. The rest can come with experience. **Edited for spelling
They could do a tutorial style cave/level to go through everytime you make a new character (optional) - Even OG HC games like Ultima Online, Everquest, Darksouls/Elden Ring have tutorial portions so no reason DnD shouldn't, think its just a time/resource thing and being a small team vs major dev team with big studio backing.
1:42:41 what would be cool is a new mechanic where u would have a normal get out of a trap option by dismantling it. And a new “quick escape” where u just rip out the trapped foot after a shorter time than the normal dismantling and take dmg. Either fixed or scaling😛😛
on the new player experience: i think a runescape tutorial island style introduction would benefit new players a lot. have some sort of beginner level where they walk through a linear environment and are introduced one by one to each type of mechanic. an npc or popup that explains how to bait and punish for pve, then looting/equipping items and healing. then maybe even change the player to a caster class to introduce spell casting. then move on to a section where you are given a pickaxe and introduced to mining and crafting/upgrading. the level can be finished by leading to multiple different extract options to show the rope, raft, staircases, and portals as being what to look for. i dont think dumping a wall of text to read through would be a good idea, gradually adding on mechanics through gameplay makes for a better introduction.
I got steamrolled by a warlock, bard, cleric in trios the other day. The bard was spamming peacemaking and we had no magic damage so they were literally invincible unless we got a cutthroat throwing knife on the bard or something. I can imagine a new player going against that in HR would just never want to play HR again. There is still shit like that in fights, that leave a salty taste. I agree with the faithfulness being OP, I tried swapping it out for the ale perk and faithfulness helps "catch" players sooo much. It's pretty much a must run on smite cleric.(IRONHAMMER DO NOT REMOVE THE SLOW! Just tune it down a bit. It would be a good compromise.) Sorry for the rant, I just drank 3 coffees.
2:08:10 they draw to most game for me is a bow. I have played ranger mainly since release of this game. This season I am a weapon mastery fighter. There is no point this season to be a ranger over a fighter imo.
Amazing podcast today you guys. I think that all your criticism is valid. I love this game but I was trying to grind high rollers with my best friend and although we do a great job in normals we can never get out or win a fight in high rollers ever and we both got a thousand hours in game. So I think you guys bring up great points. And happy birthday Soma you rock buddy
as an introverted gamer, going on discord with some random strangers could literally be a nightmare of mine, i am very thankful i started playing this game with 3 games that had been playing for quite awhile. the squire warning you about the 25 gear score should be expanded upon, it should only warn you when other people in your party are not in the same bracket as you, and the warning should clearly lay out the 3 diff brackets in normal games. next podcast lets have a challenge where 0 sexual references are made.
I for one don't find chasing a rat for 15 minutes to be highly enjoyable gameplay. Druid doesn't need buffs or nerfs so much as it needs some outright changes.
@@dylancrosby2451 See, that's just bad. Firstly, it means you need to always carry a molotov (or multiple) to counter one class. That is dumb, inventory space is precious and that takes up a lot. Already bad enough I need magic protect pots AND arrows just to deal with warlocks. And, you know, if you miss. Well hey, I guess you just lost. Now he can troll you for the rest of the map. Second, you have to chase. Because if you dont, he WILL come back and take pot shots at you. Or better yet, train half the dungeon onto you. It's a thing. It happens. He doesn't even need gear to do it. And god forbid he runs the mobs through the molotov, now they all hate you. Starting to see the problem here? Druid kinda sucks at fighting, not gonna lie. But the scum tactics they can pull off are incredibly disruptive to the point of bad design. It has to be addressed.
@@Rikuto01 oh no, you need to hold a cheap throwable, which people do anyway... you could also, idk... throw a torch.... or a drum... you get those for free. Wiz and rogue have been able to mob dump forever, this is not a druid exclusive thing. Rat is literally 1hp, gets aimbotted by ranged mobs and it has a deceptively large hitbox. Most classes in the game have ranged or aoe damage, if you can't hit the rat, that's a skill issue. I've genuinely killed more rats than I have killed druids out of rat, its so easy, idk why you're complaining about rats.
@@dylancrosby2451 I'm glad you're having success against timmies, but im not carrying half of walmart with me to kill a mouse. That is stupid game design.
@@Rikuto01 bro, I've been playing Max gear 1v3s all wipe, the only timmy here is the guy who can't kill a rat. Throwables are so cheap dude... just take one and hold it, drop it at the end if you need space to hold loot and then buy more... its really not that hard. Also again, you can use torches or drums... I know you aren't dropping torches in dark and darker.
Skipping notes into shriek is like a 1 second spellcast. It's not so much a song as it is a single note. : / 1:53:00 Lock the Tradechat for the first 2-4 weeks of each wipe for solo-self-found gamers
Arena should do something similar to runescape where you can inspect peoples gear in a menu that shows all the players trying to stake and then you can bet gold on who will win the fight
Honestly as a normal Bard player. Probably not the best, can only kill gobbo caves bosses. Bard isn't that op, it takes a good player to make him OP, he honestly just needs more options to choose from that ACTUALLY do something.
I feel like trios would be more fun if they added double swing doors. Cause it feels like rn if you're playing a Melee class who ever pushes through the door first is most likely gonna lose. And possibly having the doors take longer to open. Feels like apex out here in HR
I think spud is right about 124, but there should be a 249 lobby as well. There needs to be a place for all gear levels. If 124 is max for everyone, there is some gear that just isn't wearable. Even right now, there is no place for certain gear like mid blues because you will get stomped in > 124, but they aren't worth wearing in
Trading is an awesome part of the game that I would like to see explored further, I especially would enjoy it if they invested a bit of time in creating a physical trading hub (or re-using an pre-existing area). It would be a voice chat room where we are unable to bring harm upon each other. You could even offer opportunity for weary adventurers to relax, socialise, gamble their gold or loot with each other or practice PVP. I think it would cultivate more opportunity for roleplaying which I think has created some of the best moments in Dark and Darker. Proximity chat allows for exceptionally entertaining experiences and further building on gameplay that doesn't rely on PVP is a route that will make dark and darker more inviting for new players. I think it would be awesome if I could hawk my wears to my fellow adventurers in a mystical bazaar and then relax with a hardy tankard filled with the bartenders finest before I ready myself for my next adventure. As a Dungeon Master, I find adventures that are filled with only combat to be lacklustre when compared with the heights of entertainment found within more complex narratives.
Thank you for pushing for this and addressing the Sweat Lords. When it is possible to be an educated sweat lord, aka, you guys, on the podcast, who are business savvy and UNDERSTAND that when you create an elite group and no bar for entry lower, you KILL A GAME. And the cycle of toxicity continues as a community destroys itself because they can only devour one another in their high level competition. Rather than understanding it's a Pyramid, it has multiple levels, and you create BASE foundation where majority of people will exist, a middle teir and then an upper teir. Lock the sweat lords at the top so they can devour each other, while the actual system can stay alive because their is an actual player base. Then there is you guys, floating above the pyramid, at the top, as sweat lords who GIVE BACK to the community, and advocate for the OVERALL HEALTH of the game/system. Tutorial level that has every feature of the game with extracts showing what they look like when taken, etc etc. All that. And update the UI on the map as well. Simply put an X symbol over a static when it has been taken. Gonna get absolutely ridiculed here, but ya know, what Dungeonborne does? This is why competition is HEALTHY. Because they should be looking at one another's systems, asking how they are doing it better, ADOPTING IT, and then keeping your styles different. IE Dark and Darker has been agreed upon for its movement in fights. Where Dungeonborne has its feel with its Light Attack, Heavy Attack, Blocking (Rocker, Paper, Scissors). As well as things like their take on class skills/identity or even the graphics themselves. No one is re-inventing Fantasy... it's Fantasy. If Dark and Darker just adopted a lot of the "ease" in the UI that DB does, the game would feel massively more approachable. The stat stacking, movement, etc etc... that is where the sweat lords and the people who want skill expression can come in. UI = Basics. D&D has made leaps and bounds with things like shared space, more stash slots purchasable, quests, etc etc. I think most people would agree that holding off on new classes, items, etc. and focusing resources towards these changes is what is going to keep D&D alive and healthy in the long run so those things like classes, items, etc. will actually happen so there is a healthy player base to keep it alive.
Just increase the HP/TTK even more and and BIS/uniques/legendary items will start to make more sense. :) Weapon base damage is ok, but the rolls make the difference in a BIS set.
I didn't encounter too many people playing windlass crossbow, but I agree that oneshots especially for a glass canon classes as wizard can be extremely frustrating. I guess deleting the items like this from the game is too much of an extreme measure, while simply nerfing damage or scaling on smth that reloads this much long would kill the item entirely. What if the the items as such wouldn't be available in the shop and their drop rate would be much lower? The prices on the market would skyrocket, but it would be fun/sweats playing only. What are your thoughts on that?
A major point for wizard which hasn't been mentioned, isn't it weird wizard is the only class which spams the same move? Fireball to be exact. I wish they would get better performance from switching up the spells they use instead of spamming that one move, especially for classes which can't block it it feels cheap. I don't want the class to be shit though, I think it's so cool to get the ice bolt throwing wizard which then switches to magic missile and then if you rush him he goes for the lightning thing that goes on the ground because it is both more skill expressive and it feels like there is both more counterplay against the wizard and more things you could do to improve as the wizard
The answer to the squire question was several hours. Me and three of my friends started playing together and it took a minute to understand the squire and quest giving you better squire stuff
What about, you get rewarded by not dying with your gear by being able to upgrade it when you extract, with sockets and gems maybe, but maybe just like redeem tokens, you can pick between 3 random rolls on a piece of gear every time you extract
It’s funny that the balance of the game has gone full circle to where everyone effectively wants a battle Royale found in raid gear style system again, it’s just better to find items, it’s better for lobby matchmaking, it’s better for game balance. No one wants to get gear checked from prebuilt marketplace HR kits.
I would honestly suggest making unique quality purple quality and everything else is blue down and that would reduce dmg and everything significantly and would keep the teir systems
Personally, I think movespeed should be static per class. Boots could just be whatever, stat increase, insert some creative idea here. This consistency could allow for more straightforward tuning of other attributes like attack speed, damage output, and buff abilities. Basically having movespeed static per class, would allow a better baseline for devs to balance classes. With movement speed being constant, you're fights are more determined by player skill and strategy than they are now rather than inherent speed advantages of gear.
Great ep, top tier guest!.. Im not proud of it but ive been playing Dungeonborne the past week, mostly cause my friends like it more and i pref DB with friends over solo DaD(after ~1500h). DB feels mechanically shit compared to DaD. But the initial beginner experience is so much better. Its all about how quick you get into the gameplayloop and understand how things work as youve talked about in this ep and I wouldnt be surprised if DB will surpass DaD purely because of that... well and convenience(automated auction house, progression systems, shared stash, ttk & more)
I would love to see a training room in dark and darker. just a room with a dummy and some settings for unlimited spells, cooldowns etc. give the player access to their stache while in the training room and you'd have a way to quickly test your gear before you go into a game. would love that. as for tutorial levels I think they could just take 3 or 4 rooms from each dungeon, put them in a line, remove all the other doors and make it a short linear adventure with an extract at the end. make like 2 for each dungeon, maybe with some kind of "mini bosses" at the end like a harpy or a centipede or something. would be a rather easy way to do it since they can just recycle what they already have. one class per group could be a high-roller thing to make high-roller more special. this change would not work for normals anyways because f2p players only have one character slot so you wouldn't be able to play with your friends if you both play the same class which would feel pretty bad. not like this' take on druid was not really for me. instant shapeshift is the most fun part about druid they should not remove it. it clearly shows that he hasn't played it much. I think you should be able to play him as a support however. he should have more healing scaling for example so it would be worth it to build caster stats. but you should also be able to go full animal scaling build and fight people in animal forms if you choose to. warlock has like 10 different builds that should be the goal for all classes if possible. I am all for a 10 spell druid but I am way more hyped for 9 animal druid! halfway through the podcast and enjoying it a lot I'm gonna cut it here I have already said too much :D
Eve online has Eve Academy which is a series of UA-cam videos for every aspect of the game. What if there was "Scrying Mirror" in the main lobby and a codex tome, and clicking on subject matter would bring the scrying mirror into focus and it would play an embedded video from someone like @notlikethis or @ryansixdaysaweek. Feel like it would make a brilliant way if integrating the community while maintaining a level of immersion in the game
Why not use the Goblin Rooms spawn area? That long hallway with mob at the end of it you could cycle through mobs to teach different types.. With some text that pops up and gives you advice with some still shots.
I think the best solution for new-player integration is guilds. Have a very basic tutorial, then let guilds teach new players. Make learning the game a community effort. Practice PvP in the guild hall, etc
This was a lot of fun, and the time flew by so quickly. Thanks for having me on!
Hey I had an idea. What if they put like a mini game in for clerics like they did for bard. How bard hits the patterns for songs maybe like cleric needs to "flip through the divine book" to the correct religious texts or whatever to cast the spell. Essentially a re flavored bard mechanic but for spells would be cool imo
You know what's crazy? In 2018, I worked for the owners of Ark survival evolved, which was a Chinese parent company. The owner of the company admitted to me once that he had a team of college kids in China keeping his base up while he was offline, and he was paying for their degrees and housing in exchange for making his clan the biggest in any server. Others in the company (could be gossip) said if his base got raided, he would stop funding their tuition. Steam reviews isolated the clan name but didn't connect it to the owner.
@@Orriioonn27honestly I think all casting classes would rather have something like this if they didn't have to sit to recover spells! Maybe not as hard of a mini game though.
Make sure you come back again amazing insights and ideas you had for the game!! Come back again!!
You did a good job.
NotLikeThis is super intelligent, should be a regular invite on the pod.
Spudhunter is the best addition to this podcast. His takes are so good and he's so funny
He's great. It's funny because we both play wizard and druid so I feel his pain when he rants about them
He's really articulate about issues. I think his opinions are often on the mark and I really enjoy his creative metaphors 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 this episode above others
honestly he made this podcast so much better for me he fills the dead air IMMEDIATELY there is no more downtime with him here
he needs to stop ranting so much and let guests talk
@@Watashi_wa_robottodesuI mean they are all passive talkers so it's a good balance
NotLikeThis nailed so many points on this podcast.. There is so much imbalance and issues in this game and he called out a lot of them.
Spud being on this podcast was a very smart move 😂😂 count me in on the sky diving
best dark and darker podcast out there
Agreed.
hold the line has a little bit more depth discussions but this one's great too
When I started, I played about 15 games with no clue how to exit. I was having fun, so I found streams and videos (like you guys) to get the basics. Even if it's just reading, they really need a lexicon of information in the game. great vid
They had a tutorial in the playtests. It was that "For Fopdoodles Only" button which brought up a little tutorial notebook thing. Whyd they remove that??
It was written very satirically if I recall correctly, but it provided some useful info... and if it stuck around we'd be calling them Fopdoodles instead of Timmies!
I’m glad you said it bcus I was running to the comments after the podcast to say the same.
@@theswift_gaming "Fopdoodle stomping" doesn't have the same ring to it
@@Just-the-GameplayDoodle-stomping sounds great though
One of the best clerics out there. Good to see NLT on this pod. Another good one boys
Really like the dynamic of these 4 lads. The calmness that Notlikethis has brings more more room for Jay. Soma is a great host and spud is a complete win. Altho, I'm also looking forward for the scuffest hour with Donny. I would also like to see Soma to start aggressing Jay more again to finnaly book his vacation with hopefully a Jay vacation vlog on the horizon.
Jay needs one. Bad. lol
Soda and this one are my favorite episodes, you boys are putting out bangers
One thing that really bugs me is how the quests say "The Howling Crypts", but the map in rotation is called "The Forgotten Castle" like... Why?
Also, when quests require you to go to the Inferno, it still says Howling Crypts. 🤷
the forgotten castle is the geographical area, the howlling crypts are the location inside the castle, upper castle was The ruins, down the castle is the inferno
@@gabriellessa7706 doesn't matter, the map name needs to match what the quest says.
@@nugenesis69420
Exactly! This has been another consistent problem with the game.
They might have recently changed this but for a long time the rogue backstab perk said "when attacking from behind gain 30% (I think?) "backstab power" like what? Backstab power is not a thing in the game. Do they mean physical power? Do they mean 30% damage bonus? Those are real terms in the game that have stats attached, backstab power is nothing and the fact they chose to use those words is just needlessly confusing.
@@Rwnds7967 yeah, there's a lot of tool tips that aren't accurate. Another example is light orb for wizard, it doesn't tell you that it unstealths rogues.
The comment soma made about "i wonder how many people download the game. Try it once and NEVER return." To give you a metric. Of my like 9 friend group, only 3, including me, tried. Those 2 quit after day 2 because "This game is fucking horrible" can't get them to even try it again. We never got gear or made a ton of money just died a bunch of times and got off.
My friends kept dying at the first enemies they saw and although they think the game is cool, they won't play anymore.
Total opposite for my brother's group.
Because he had played the game before so he managed to get his group of 6 to keep playing the game until it became their conversation topic during break time.
And they are playing it every night now.
@@KedaiCiplak Sounds fun
Its hard to tell people to play a game carefully, elden ring a prime example.
@aaronbrandon2321 the problem with elden ring and this game. Is elden ring feels very fair when you die 90% of the time. This game when you first download it makes nothing clear as they described. Dying feels just fucking stupid. Especially before the squire when there was 0 healing unless you bought it. Many times you would get hit when it looks like you wouldn't. Just because you don't know holding S is a throw for example against a goblin lol. Die to mobs 6x in a row, then get instantly killed by the first 3 players you see. And your never logging on again.
for extraction points, have a prompt telling you it's been taken like how ladders tell you you can't do anything but move
Like the ladder notification box but "It seems another adventurer has taken this exit" so new people know the static is gone.
@@creeyis5092perfect idea
This idea would be great
I'm always looking forward to the podcast. Thank you
This was one hell of an episode boys.
Also don't worry spuddy. Some of us know it's not all timmies. Been dealing with people say all I do is kill timmies all wipe cuz I've been playing normals lol. Even playing 1v3 longsword somehow people think everyone that plays is brand new only lol
am I alone in thinking that longsword is op? Feels like literally every single fighter/warlock is running around with one, and the kill feeds are almost entirely pvp deaths from longswords lol.
Spudman has such a way with words. And also NotLikeThisJoe is a fantastic lad, very happy to have him in the community, and I hope he gets the job at Ironmace
Met a Timmy that had 49 hrs and never knew the squire existed.
They should get the Narrator from Darkest Dungeon to describe a pve tutorial level pointing out key details, such as gear score and combat, evasion, spells, perks etc (or talk the gamer through like an episode of Nightmare the TV show) That would add a lot of flavor. I think PVE repeatable level for each map would be fine - allow extraction process, but everything is "removed" at the end so you can't keep anything but you can use the level to learn fighting AI types and how to map, how to navigate and go through the mechanics.
in the play tests wasn't the stat like over 90% of new players die to their first encounter?
Spud is WILD for that comment around 16:20
notlikethis is so humble its crazy, such a good guest and love to hear him share his opinion
Spud is a huge addition to this podcast well done adding him.
Great podcast today, Jay went absolutely ballistic with the rant at the end and everything he said was 100% right and I hope the devs look into making some changes especially for getting people into HR lobbies and adding back some of the old crypts layouts.
I also don’t think SSF is viable or possible to implement into the game as it is rn it would be dead on arrival just because it Doubles the queues.
I think the best implementation would be that there is absolutely no trading for the first week or 2 of wipe for anyone as an “early wipe event”
I agree that the most fun im having is -25 and the -125 lobbies. But i still get that big dopamine rush from finding good items because i can sell them for more 124 kits. In my experience the higher the gearscore the less fun i have.
Probably aren’t great at building a kit yet then tbh. There’s quite a few classes in the game (roughly half) that are severely gimped from their potential without a fair bit of gold investment. Say 2k for a budget kit but once u have that 2k kit on it really changes the feel of the class massively and they feel significantly better to play where some classes can get away with just squire gear and feel the same
@@wideout7838 I know how to build high end kits, it’s just not fun gameplay when everyone at that level is 2 shotting each other. Also the cheater problem is way more prevalent in those gear brackets
@@Farmer_Rick_Ross fights last much longer in the higher brackets tho lol which you’d know if you actually played them. Pdr classes r taking legit 10 hits to die in the higher brackets sometimes more depending on the conditions and people have much better healing and movespeed to reset and continue fights extending them whereas in low gear brackets pretty much every class kills every other class in 2-4 hits and has far less ability to reset fights to more neutral positions and drag them out longer
@@wideout7838 bro what are you on about? That “10 shot PDR class” dies in 2 zaps from a geared wizard, and kited by a warlock/ranger. Stop projecting lmao. I’ve been playing since PT2. The mass majority of the community also agrees that higher gearscore lobbies aren’t as fun.
@@Farmer_Rick_Ross no the vast majority of NEW players agree with that sentiment and it’s 1 cuz they’re poor and have gear fear and 2 cuz they’re players against much better players which they don’t enjoy being stomped by. Also cleric barb fighter w 2nd wind popped easily living all 5 zaps lol 🤣 n let’s not get on ranger whose barely hurting cleric fighter unless it’s a point blank shotgun to the face lol. It’s inarguable that the melee classes can stand there and smack each other 8-12 times in geared lobbies and 2-4 times in squire gear. We can jump in raid if u want n put some gold on it if u think ur right but I’m sure u won’t cuz u know u aren’t. Also getting kites doesn’t mean the ttk isn’t much higher lol if the ranger warlock have to kite someone for 2.5 mins just to kill them instead of just landing 3 shots then that means people are lasting much longer lmao
Another Idea for the 3rd party...4th party...5th party issue in HR....Magic Lock for wizard...increase the duration to 30 seconds, increase the spell slot to 4, and increase the impact resistance to the door u cast it on to atleast 7. That way you can straight up say NO to a party trying to push when there is a door. Make it to where you can only have one door locked at a time though. When a door is Magic Locked, make it have a visual effect, and allow spell pred from warlock to eat it. That way theres atleast some counter play.
ALSO, for wizard. Add a skill called Spell Steal. You Cast it on a target that has a magical effect, and it eats that effect. It then is converted into a tick of charge per spell slot level that you ate.
It would be similiar to spell predation, but different enough to be unique. It would also allow a Wizard to be able to regain spell slots, potentially, mid fight.
So happy to have Soma as part of the crew. Youre genuineness fits right in to the company.❤
Thank you!
Bro really going band 4 band with that background respect
Nah wait that's money? 😭 Thought it was post-its
Its also wild that they didnt even show it in discord patch notes that they made 124 lobbies, i get it how not every little detail needs to be shown in patch notes, but the gearscore lobby change is pretty big thing to not show to players
remove additional/true damage and additional movement speed/movement speed bonus for a wipe
Itd probably fuck up balance for a bit but itd certainly make the game more balanced in the long term
They def should mimic Hunt show downs tutorial, fight some mobs with diffrent weapons how to defend with a shield and that campies give back certain abilities.
Idea. When you die to PVE, on the spectator screen...add a new option rather than just exit and whatever.
Add a "Survival Tips" Button. You click it and whatever you died to, whether it be a mob or a location, Ironmace shows you a brief video of how to beat that obstacle.
"Died to a skeleton archer? Here watch this video to learn how to avoid the arrows"
"Died to a flame trap?" Video shows you waiting for the flame trap to go down XD.
ALSO, Cleric is OP, bard can be op... yes... but theres one way to hard shut them down and laugh at them as you dance on their bodies...Warlocks with Spell Predation.
No warlock on planet earth runs spell predation since they're essentially wasting one of their 5 spell slots for a single class
Haha that's so funny. The only way to make that more troll would be to have Clippy the paperclip pop up and say "ooh, looks like you're having trouble in the dungeon."
I dont know if that fits the vibe of the game, I think instead you should have like a journal diary, that shows the mob and how it attacks
@@searingscar8058 Spell Pred is amazing, wdym? Just cause something isnt being used doesnt mean it isnt usefull.
FOr example, i come from Overwatch.. Back in the day WIdowmaker was considered USELESS and resulted in auto-avoids like crazy. Now, a good widowmaker can easily run a lobby.
The same concept with a good warlock running spell pred. You can get 10 charges of dark shards with spell pred and the perk combined. Thats 300 percent damage to your next shadow spell...Think about that....
With white gear on you can do 52ish damage on a headshot with 0 shards, vs a training dummy (5% magic resist on dummys)....With 5 shards, that is 104 dmg...with 10 shards that is 156 dmg from a 1 second cast against a target that has no magic buffs on them, cause you just ate them. Imagine what better gear would look like damage wise.
Built properly, a warlock would oneshot anyone.
Spell pred is the most slept on spell in the game.
FOR EXAMPLE, just yesterday i was running 24 gearscore with the just the perk, had 5 shards up and i came across a barb. He engaged, i cast weakness on him, then meme beam. HE DIED IN 1 SECOND FLAT. I looted him and he was also 24 gs, so it wasnt a gear diff. It wasnt a timmy. He just didnt have any chance of an outplay once he committed.
@@crossc1988 Same experience with other games too. Example: Heroes of the Storm. (I know its dead now), but in season 1 I was running Abathur a lot and my team would always flame me at character select. Fast forward a couple weeks and im drowning in praise after every game and easily got to Rank1 in competitive lol. People dont understand games anymore, they only understand what people tell them in youtube videos.
Nobody laughing at SpudHunter's shower comment at 1:10:22 and jay just shaking his head made me get second hand embarrassment, but it was so hilarious. I like the energy he brings in. Bringing in NotLikeThis is was great, but it's even better because he seems like the complete opposite of SpudHunter
Good one, I also like TheSpudHunter energy. Feels like he was on this podcast since day one. With Jay being more chill and Spud being crazy fun, their energy complement each other.
Looking forward to next one. I hope you guys reach out to @CNG Blade sometime. Since he is one of the rare wizards that is positive about the class still. I would like to see their takes clashing with Jay. Also it would be appropriate since we are heading to revamp for the class with the sorcerer on the horizon.
Anyway great episode keep up the good content!c
I definitely agree with gutting all ranged damage besides ranger. Then you can tune the ranger and all ranged damage with ranger data. It would make balancing much easier and would allow wizard to actually be more useful at the same time
Optional, replayable tutorial run that rewards the player one time with like, 5 stacks of potions and bandages. 5 or so minutes with melee, ranged and flying enemy, shows you to barrels and pots
5 stacks? We really babying new players even more than they already are in the "unforgiving, hardcore" game?
5 might be too much but come on. 10 stacks of meds aren't gonna turn a Timmy into a pubstomper. They will lose those meds in 2 runs lol. It's about softening the blow initially. After that it's up to them to learn and get better
@@4WOF i get it and all, but they already get free pots, bandies and campfires in squire. Do we really need to hold their hand that tight? All of us learnt how to play the game without handouts, why do they need it that badly?
This game is so much more balanced than it gets credit for. Not perfect, but if you listened to these complaints and/or read the reddit you would be drowned in group think.
Spud is absolutely correct. HR and high gear score feels bad to play because it’s full of people geared up in the most cheese builds. Rondel dagger PDR fighter, 40 agi demon warlock, etc.
Great podcast fellas.
Please with the small tutorial for new players, 2-3 mobs and showing healing and very basic 101 is much needed for player retention, thank you guys for bringing it up again.
The squire needs to be explained and shown off, I’m still seeing people running around with no shoes on.
Just buff everything till balanced 🗿
Better than nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf
Best episode!
The reselling talk is real man it has been a real world problem for years now.
goat cast sheeesh 💚
Diversifying on the lore of the typical metaphor of jumping out of a plane is crazy 😂😂
so downloaded the game as a first timer about 5 days ago..... it played solo until lvl 15 as a druid with out ever extracting just dieng over and over and over..... it was rough but i'm a glutton for punishment and play lots of hard core games in this genre... it wasn't until 5 hours in i switched to ranger and the game changed for me (way easier to kite).... i'll say this i wish their was a way to honor a guy i met in duos called pugelistpete, he was awesome and explained to me how to find extraction points.... my first 4 hours were grueling before i had the nerve to jump in duos.... this was a rough learning curve... what we need is a 3 room dungeon as a tutorial. Room 1 you spawn (no class) with just a sword, you walk into the next room there is a single skeleton with shield and sword and they have to fight this skeleton to get through this level. in the third room have a spider spawner an exit with no torches on then after maybe a minute the lights will turn on and they can leave.
Imagine a system that had premade loadouts for green gear in a
I’m only in about the 40 minute mark but yes. I tried to get about 4 friends into the game and only one stayed and then quit after a month and the one friend who stayed admitted to using wall hacks and he made a statement amongst the lines of “well I thought you were using it and it seems like everyone else online does”
Your friend is so full of it, he knew exactly what he was doing lol.
Drop that friend before he gets you banned on dnd or other games.
When is episode 69 coming out?
Live this coming Tuesday and then on the YT channel at 8 am PT on Wednesday the 7th.
@@_Soma is this no longer the case? 5 days later still not on YT
@@dinen5000 no we had to move episode 69 to 8/13
As a new player I think having a mode like sub 25 but the difference is that loot won’t spawn and quests won’t track. You can go in either solo or as a team but there would be no other teams. This would just help with the grind of learning bosses and maps. Maybe even have it so you can choose to go to inferno/abyss right from the start. That or just have it be the Gobbo caves that are allowed for the “practice tool.”
quite a bit involved if you play on steam but you could fairly reliably accomplish this by playing on the test server, but thats only available through the blacksmith launcher
I was able to get my friends into the game bc I was able to guide them but I think going in with 0 clue is very tough. I tried to bring them into PvP in the first few games. Once the team fight started everyone was screaming and we won the fight I knew I had them hooked. That thrill of a PvP win is everything.
yep
@@Pwnopolis I disagree pvp is not ass.I mean do people play Fortnite to go do the pve locations? All my friends play competitive games so taking them into squire gear PvP was a better choice than them dying to a skeleton and thinking “well that was boring” but getting a kill in PvP bring adrenaline and excitement so that’s what I wanted them to feel.
@@Pwnopolis if you think the player base has weird PvP obsession you must be a newer player. Anyone who has been playing the game for while feels pve is trivial and brings no excitement.
@@Pwnopolis it's for the loot and adrenaline, weak mindset cant stand it
@@gabriellessa7706 Guy downloads hardcore extraction game and is confused it’s not Minecraft on peaceful.
Jays head shake at 1:10:24 straight sent me lmao. He can't handle Spuddy.
Re: new player experience
As someone who got into the game with steam, and is now pretty deep in the weeds of the game it is actually insane how little information is provided to learn the game. I'm pretty sure the game doesnt even tell you HOW TO EXTRACT IN AN EXTRACTION GAME. It feels like they dont want new people to play their game, I bet a writer could knock out some in universe turorial prompts in a week. Hopefully they take a page out of dungeonborne's tutorial, which I found was really nice.
Then when you do get past that, if you want to do quests they tell you kill things and do things with no instructions on how to do it. Example: one starting quest is to get gold bars. Gold. Only accessible by double bossing Goblin caves... As a first quest. How is a new player expected to accomplish this? Tailor wants you to kill like 20 mobs in inferno
yea just get gud, is suposed to be hard lmao
@@gabriellessa7706your gonna get good at any game you put time into. We are talking about the amount of time needed to learn basic concepts in the game.
Your dated as fuck with this take my dude
New players are really bad at reading it seems.
Did you forget the part where the description says "unforgiving, hardcore"?
Also, you know youtube tutorials and the discord exists right? There's a whole ass discord dedicated towards teaching new players, but you steam players can't read 😂😂
@dylancrosby2451 having to go on a 3rd party app is not a good new player experience
@@Vigil129 if you're not in the discord, you're trolling. I didn't use youtube videos and I learnt to play the game just fine, it was also much much much much harder back then. The game description says "unforgiving, hardcore", its quite literally meant to be unforgiving and hardcore, its not our fault if new players can't read and expect to be babied.
The problem with caster druid is even if they get magical healing scaled they'd still have to get quite a few more damaging spells to make it worth it. We can't use crystal sword so melee we will be useless building magic damage and that feels terrible.
They definitely don’t need crystal sword lol spear is a great weapon for them. Caster cleric still uses Morningstar which doesn’t have any benefit with magic damage or power or healing they’d be building
One thing crazy about the crafted gear is that copper light are green, but have two random rolls(like a blue gear).
Love this game, love this community (:❤
I'm actually very new to this game, came onto NotlikeThis off of the aforementioned budget gear setups, just because they're fun to watch (not that I have the trader unlocked yet xD).
This was a fantastic sort of summary of game development, especially when you have multiple agendas. Counterplay is key, gear absolutely throws a wrench in there. No one should be helpless in a matchup and should have options, but when you have a class that does everything that's obviously moot. Powerful effects should have tradeoffs and the easiest way to do that is through positioning/spacing (but god do I hate that when I DON'T KNOW WHERE ANYTHING IS xD (starting as ranger is rough lol)).
~~On that note as an aside as a "timmy" wondering lost around a map, that I have no way to know the contents of without watching extensive content on youtube btw (unless that's also hidden somewhere in the merchants back pocket xD). I'll say as a new player I would love more clarity in the map, it's a right of passage, I get that, but it's hard enough getting random ganked out of places you didn't know about while also having no clue where you're going. And of course the icing on the cake to have an extraction already taken lol (AND THE FKING TORCHES WERE STILL ON (Ice caverns, one time use, first time playing on the map, how could I have known it wouldn't come back down in addition to, and I'm assuming, you can only access it from the ground level xD).
So in summary, I'd like to be able to play the game and have access to information clearly: where shit is, how it works, a hotspot map of where people go for pvp wouldn't hurt.
Absolutely squire, I got lucky a friend helped at the start, that merchant system is beyond antiquated and confusing xD the ability to quickly menu through shops would be nice too, unless there's a way to quickly do that which I haven't discovered yet lol.
the starting quest system is also odd, the rewards don't seem worth it outside of xp which is easily gained, since I'll lose it the next match anyways (I also fell for the, and I assume trap, where shop purchased items don't count towards the rewards so they have to be farmed (also doesn't feel like they track properly, but maybe you need to extract for it to count).
also I suck at summarizing, but I blame that on watching this ;P
tldr; more info, especially on extracts for sure (codex is fine, I don't need my hand held)
basic outline of early objectives and the best way of doing that
main issues are for sure gear, and mobility creep, but that's absolutely the pitfall of so many games.
Great conversation as usual. The new meditate makes me feel like an actual wizard. Feels bad not being able to have 10 spells though. Also agree that druid heals need scaling to be viable. Feral druid is so bad atm too, but its really strong in solos. I run cat and bear with a mix of str and agi. Costs a lot to run, but you can dominate solo lobbies
The best thing for a new timtim experience would be to remove additional move speed affixes, there you go.
You almost need different balancing for solos and teams, kinda like how ARAM has its own balance adjustments.
When a game is relatively simple, like Fortnite or Apex, Timmies can learn by trial-by-fire. You have a gun, you shoot, boom. The ui in these games tells enough for Timmies to press buttons and learn about healing, nades, ext., ntm they have a tutorial island.
Games like DaD, Tarkov, ect., are generally harder games. Some handholding needs to be present for most people. It's a unique beast to tackle for most people just so they understand the basics of how to play. The rest can come with experience.
**Edited for spelling
They could do a tutorial style cave/level to go through everytime you make a new character (optional) - Even OG HC games like Ultima Online, Everquest, Darksouls/Elden Ring have tutorial portions so no reason DnD shouldn't, think its just a time/resource thing and being a small team vs major dev team with big studio backing.
Hearing y’all talk about new classes upsets me. Sorcerer, wizard, what’s the difference?
1:42:41 what would be cool is a new mechanic where u would have a normal get out of a trap option by dismantling it. And a new “quick escape” where u just rip out the trapped foot after a shorter time than the normal dismantling and take dmg. Either fixed or scaling😛😛
on the new player experience: i think a runescape tutorial island style introduction would benefit new players a lot. have some sort of beginner level where they walk through a linear environment and are introduced one by one to each type of mechanic. an npc or popup that explains how to bait and punish for pve, then looting/equipping items and healing. then maybe even change the player to a caster class to introduce spell casting. then move on to a section where you are given a pickaxe and introduced to mining and crafting/upgrading. the level can be finished by leading to multiple different extract options to show the rope, raft, staircases, and portals as being what to look for. i dont think dumping a wall of text to read through would be a good idea, gradually adding on mechanics through gameplay makes for a better introduction.
I got steamrolled by a warlock, bard, cleric in trios the other day. The bard was spamming peacemaking and we had no magic damage so they were literally invincible unless we got a cutthroat throwing knife on the bard or something. I can imagine a new player going against that in HR would just never want to play HR again. There is still shit like that in fights, that leave a salty taste. I agree with the faithfulness being OP, I tried swapping it out for the ale perk and faithfulness helps "catch" players sooo much. It's pretty much a must run on smite cleric.(IRONHAMMER DO NOT REMOVE THE SLOW! Just tune it down a bit. It would be a good compromise.) Sorry for the rant, I just drank 3 coffees.
2:08:10 they draw to most game for me is a bow. I have played ranger mainly since release of this game. This season I am a weapon mastery fighter. There is no point this season to be a ranger over a fighter imo.
Amazing podcast today you guys. I think that all your criticism is valid. I love this game but I was trying to grind high rollers with my best friend and although we do a great job in normals we can never get out or win a fight in high rollers ever and we both got a thousand hours in game. So I think you guys bring up great points. And happy birthday Soma you rock buddy
Thank you! 🙏 ❤
as an introverted gamer, going on discord with some random strangers could literally be a nightmare of mine, i am very thankful i started playing this game with 3 games that had been playing for quite awhile. the squire warning you about the 25 gear score should be expanded upon, it should only warn you when other people in your party are not in the same bracket as you, and the warning should clearly lay out the 3 diff brackets in normal games. next podcast lets have a challenge where 0 sexual references are made.
I for one don't find chasing a rat for 15 minutes to be highly enjoyable gameplay. Druid doesn't need buffs or nerfs so much as it needs some outright changes.
Just throw a Molotov 5 head... or... dont chase....
I cant chase rogues on most classes, yet rogues still do some of the highest dps in the game......
@@dylancrosby2451 See, that's just bad. Firstly, it means you need to always carry a molotov (or multiple) to counter one class. That is dumb, inventory space is precious and that takes up a lot. Already bad enough I need magic protect pots AND arrows just to deal with warlocks. And, you know, if you miss. Well hey, I guess you just lost. Now he can troll you for the rest of the map.
Second, you have to chase. Because if you dont, he WILL come back and take pot shots at you. Or better yet, train half the dungeon onto you. It's a thing. It happens. He doesn't even need gear to do it. And god forbid he runs the mobs through the molotov, now they all hate you.
Starting to see the problem here? Druid kinda sucks at fighting, not gonna lie. But the scum tactics they can pull off are incredibly disruptive to the point of bad design. It has to be addressed.
@@Rikuto01 oh no, you need to hold a cheap throwable, which people do anyway... you could also, idk... throw a torch.... or a drum... you get those for free.
Wiz and rogue have been able to mob dump forever, this is not a druid exclusive thing.
Rat is literally 1hp, gets aimbotted by ranged mobs and it has a deceptively large hitbox. Most classes in the game have ranged or aoe damage, if you can't hit the rat, that's a skill issue.
I've genuinely killed more rats than I have killed druids out of rat, its so easy, idk why you're complaining about rats.
@@dylancrosby2451 I'm glad you're having success against timmies, but im not carrying half of walmart with me to kill a mouse. That is stupid game design.
@@Rikuto01 bro, I've been playing Max gear 1v3s all wipe, the only timmy here is the guy who can't kill a rat. Throwables are so cheap dude... just take one and hold it, drop it at the end if you need space to hold loot and then buy more... its really not that hard.
Also again, you can use torches or drums... I know you aren't dropping torches in dark and darker.
Skipping notes into shriek is like a 1 second spellcast. It's not so much a song as it is a single note. : /
1:53:00 Lock the Tradechat for the first 2-4 weeks of each wipe for solo-self-found gamers
Arena should do something similar to runescape where you can inspect peoples gear in a menu that shows all the players trying to stake and then you can bet gold on who will win the fight
Honestly as a normal Bard player. Probably not the best, can only kill gobbo caves bosses. Bard isn't that op, it takes a good player to make him OP, he honestly just needs more options to choose from that ACTUALLY do something.
Change the healing from warlock spells to only heal that reserved hp they get back from like bandages and stuff.
Rogue should not have full invis you cant change my mind
I feel like trios would be more fun if they added double swing doors. Cause it feels like rn if you're playing a Melee class who ever pushes through the door first is most likely gonna lose. And possibly having the doors take longer to open. Feels like apex out here in HR
I think spud is right about 124, but there should be a 249 lobby as well. There needs to be a place for all gear levels. If 124 is max for everyone, there is some gear that just isn't wearable. Even right now, there is no place for certain gear like mid blues because you will get stomped in > 124, but they aren't worth wearing in
Trading is an awesome part of the game that I would like to see explored further, I especially would enjoy it if they invested a bit of time in creating a physical trading hub (or re-using an pre-existing area). It would be a voice chat room where we are unable to bring harm upon each other. You could even offer opportunity for weary adventurers to relax, socialise, gamble their gold or loot with each other or practice PVP. I think it would cultivate more opportunity for roleplaying which I think has created some of the best moments in Dark and Darker. Proximity chat allows for exceptionally entertaining experiences and further building on gameplay that doesn't rely on PVP is a route that will make dark and darker more inviting for new players.
I think it would be awesome if I could hawk my wears to my fellow adventurers in a mystical bazaar and then relax with a hardy tankard filled with the bartenders finest before I ready myself for my next adventure.
As a Dungeon Master, I find adventures that are filled with only combat to be lacklustre when compared with the heights of entertainment found within more complex narratives.
Thank you for pushing for this and addressing the Sweat Lords. When it is possible to be an educated sweat lord, aka, you guys, on the podcast, who are business savvy and UNDERSTAND that when you create an elite group and no bar for entry lower, you KILL A GAME.
And the cycle of toxicity continues as a community destroys itself because they can only devour one another in their high level competition. Rather than understanding it's a Pyramid, it has multiple levels, and you create BASE foundation where majority of people will exist, a middle teir and then an upper teir. Lock the sweat lords at the top so they can devour each other, while the actual system can stay alive because their is an actual player base.
Then there is you guys, floating above the pyramid, at the top, as sweat lords who GIVE BACK to the community, and advocate for the OVERALL HEALTH of the game/system.
Tutorial level that has every feature of the game with extracts showing what they look like when taken, etc etc. All that.
And update the UI on the map as well. Simply put an X symbol over a static when it has been taken.
Gonna get absolutely ridiculed here, but ya know, what Dungeonborne does?
This is why competition is HEALTHY. Because they should be looking at one another's systems, asking how they are doing it better, ADOPTING IT, and then keeping your styles different. IE Dark and Darker has been agreed upon for its movement in fights. Where Dungeonborne has its feel with its Light Attack, Heavy Attack, Blocking (Rocker, Paper, Scissors). As well as things like their take on class skills/identity or even the graphics themselves.
No one is re-inventing Fantasy... it's Fantasy.
If Dark and Darker just adopted a lot of the "ease" in the UI that DB does, the game would feel massively more approachable. The stat stacking, movement, etc etc... that is where the sweat lords and the people who want skill expression can come in. UI = Basics. D&D has made leaps and bounds with things like shared space, more stash slots purchasable, quests, etc etc. I think most people would agree that holding off on new classes, items, etc. and focusing resources towards these changes is what is going to keep D&D alive and healthy in the long run so those things like classes, items, etc. will actually happen so there is a healthy player base to keep it alive.
Just increase the HP/TTK even more and and BIS/uniques/legendary items will start to make more sense. :)
Weapon base damage is ok, but the rolls make the difference in a BIS set.
55:10 jay is right solos is a completely different game, same with duos and the balancing should be treated as such.
I didn't encounter too many people playing windlass crossbow, but I agree that oneshots especially for a glass canon classes as wizard can be extremely frustrating. I guess deleting the items like this from the game is too much of an extreme measure, while simply nerfing damage or scaling on smth that reloads this much long would kill the item entirely. What if the the items as such wouldn't be available in the shop and their drop rate would be much lower? The prices on the market would skyrocket, but it would be fun/sweats playing only. What are your thoughts on that?
A major point for wizard which hasn't been mentioned, isn't it weird wizard is the only class which spams the same move? Fireball to be exact. I wish they would get better performance from switching up the spells they use instead of spamming that one move, especially for classes which can't block it it feels cheap. I don't want the class to be shit though, I think it's so cool to get the ice bolt throwing wizard which then switches to magic missile and then if you rush him he goes for the lightning thing that goes on the ground because it is both more skill expressive and it feels like there is both more counterplay against the wizard and more things you could do to improve as the wizard
I think the helldivers 2 tutorial was perfect
I love how entertained soma is by spud
The answer to the squire question was several hours. Me and three of my friends started playing together and it took a minute to understand the squire and quest giving you better squire stuff
What about, you get rewarded by not dying with your gear by being able to upgrade it when you extract, with sockets and gems maybe, but maybe just like redeem tokens, you can pick between 3 random rolls on a piece of gear every time you extract
It’s funny that the balance of the game has gone full circle to where everyone effectively wants a battle Royale found in raid gear style system again, it’s just better to find items, it’s better for lobby matchmaking, it’s better for game balance. No one wants to get gear checked from prebuilt marketplace HR kits.
I would honestly suggest making unique quality purple quality and everything else is blue down and that would reduce dmg and everything significantly and would keep the teir systems
Personally, I think movespeed should be static per class. Boots could just be whatever, stat increase, insert some creative idea here. This consistency could allow for more straightforward tuning of other attributes like attack speed, damage output, and buff abilities. Basically having movespeed static per class, would allow a better baseline for devs to balance classes. With movement speed being constant, you're fights are more determined by player skill and strategy than they are now rather than inherent speed advantages of gear.
Great ep, top tier guest!.. Im not proud of it but ive been playing Dungeonborne the past week, mostly cause my friends like it more and i pref DB with friends over solo DaD(after ~1500h). DB feels mechanically shit compared to DaD. But the initial beginner experience is so much better. Its all about how quick you get into the gameplayloop and understand how things work as youve talked about in this ep and I wouldnt be surprised if DB will surpass DaD purely because of that... well and convenience(automated auction house, progression systems, shared stash, ttk & more)
I would love to see a training room in dark and darker. just a room with a dummy and some settings for unlimited spells, cooldowns etc. give the player access to their stache while in the training room and you'd have a way to quickly test your gear before you go into a game. would love that.
as for tutorial levels I think they could just take 3 or 4 rooms from each dungeon, put them in a line, remove all the other doors and make it a short linear adventure with an extract at the end. make like 2 for each dungeon, maybe with some kind of "mini bosses" at the end like a harpy or a centipede or something. would be a rather easy way to do it since they can just recycle what they already have.
one class per group could be a high-roller thing to make high-roller more special. this change would not work for normals anyways because f2p players only have one character slot so you wouldn't be able to play with your friends if you both play the same class which would feel pretty bad.
not like this' take on druid was not really for me. instant shapeshift is the most fun part about druid they should not remove it. it clearly shows that he hasn't played it much. I think you should be able to play him as a support however. he should have more healing scaling for example so it would be worth it to build caster stats. but you should also be able to go full animal scaling build and fight people in animal forms if you choose to. warlock has like 10 different builds that should be the goal for all classes if possible. I am all for a 10 spell druid but I am way more hyped for 9 animal druid!
halfway through the podcast and enjoying it a lot I'm gonna cut it here I have already said too much :D
The Cycle Frontier had the best tutroial of extract games so far. ABI is good too
The charming vulgarity from spud is what I need in my life 🫃 from a fellow wizard main
Eve online has Eve Academy which is a series of UA-cam videos for every aspect of the game. What if there was "Scrying Mirror" in the main lobby and a codex tome, and clicking on subject matter would bring the scrying mirror into focus and it would play an embedded video from someone like @notlikethis or @ryansixdaysaweek. Feel like it would make a brilliant way if integrating the community while maintaining a level of immersion in the game
i know it's an absolute meme but the mobile port of dark and darker has a tutorial and i think it pulls it off somewhat decently
Why not use the Goblin Rooms spawn area? That long hallway with mob at the end of it you could cycle through mobs to teach different types.. With some text that pops up and gives you advice with some still shots.
The fear of getting 2 tapped by a rogue at any moment in solos is absolute ridiculous. It's an absolute stress simulator right now
The funny things is the mobile version of dark and darker has a amazing tutorial and is arguably a better version of the game
Make sure to stream that skydiving for us, maybe have to do that on Kick though
I think the best solution for new-player integration is guilds. Have a very basic tutorial, then let guilds teach new players. Make learning the game a community effort. Practice PvP in the guild hall, etc