Donnys 100% right about this being a more arcadey type game. Sea of thieves is a great example of the high stakes arcade type vibe. So much of these games staying power comes from that shift of messin about with the bois while grabbing some loot then outta nowhere shits just got real and your doing everything you can to keep that same loot.
I think an interesting change for the AP system would be to add random missions every time you load into a match. For example in the ice caves, one game you might load in and have 3 objectives such as "Kill 20 kobolds" (Get an extra flat 150 AP) "Kill one player" (Get a 1.2x multiplier to all AP earned during the run) "Loot a legendary treasure" (Get 100 extra AP) and another match you might get something like "Kill 3 giants" (Get an extra flat 150 AP) "Kill 3 players" (Get a 2x multiplier to all AP earned during the run) "Loot 4 epic treasures" (Gain an extra flat 150 AP). The possibilities with this are pretty much endless on every different map and have a double benefit of not only being something to spice up each match and personally I think heavily improve the repeatability factor of the game but they also arent something you HAVE to interact with if you dont want to.
Great podcast, really enjoyable to listen to. I would love it if in high roller there would be a chance or maybe if it’s 300+ in gearscore only but for every mob to be a nightmare mob or a lot more of them at the very least. I feel like I barely have seen them this wipe as compared to last wipe. Also please a hell for goblin caves or second layer like deeper in the caves. I love Glocktane’s ideas of quests and I think there should be more “easy” or simple quests at the very beginning of wipe with rewards like potions and bandages to help new players since they might not the “last season rewards” for playing in high roller. It also helps reoccurring players, the 15x potions and bandages help a ton at new wipe at least for me personally. Soma I know you’re marketing but this might apply to you and I apologize if not but maybe just spread the message along for more dark and darker merchandise like t-shirts, stickers, dad hats or baseball caps. I’ve seen people talk about not so much money coming into Ironmace after the initial purchase for the game and blue/red stone shards. I think merchandise that is very basic for t-shirts and hats and stickers could sell pretty well, especially if samples are sent to content creators who might wear them on stream so people can see what they look like on a person before buying. There could be maybe a few basic t-shirt designs and also an additional idea to get the community involved: a t-shirt design contest. There are a ton of talented artists from the fan-art on the discord alone and the winner(s) should get a relatively substantial prize or something other than one free shirt for their design. The other merchandise options have been not interesting enough like the coffee so far in my opinion. I would buy even a basic black shirt with “dark and darker” logo on the shirt or hat. The last shirt collaboration they did the website was pretty hard to navigate and was pretty overwhelming with options. I apologize for the huge text wall but these are all just my opinions, thank you for the great podcast.
The problem with the map gameplay in a dungeon is that people are gonna check the maps from wiki or any other DaD site. Nevertheless, would be cool to have unique features in the game that makes the whole adventuring so much awesome!
Literally my two favorite content creators on Dark and Darker! Yam and Glocky. Good episode, wished it went on forever actually. It took me a long time of playing this game to be able to tell who was cheating and who wasnt, I think cheaters are a lot more common, and a lot more sneaky than yall give them credit for. Like Jay, how often are you pickpocketing super sweaty East Taiwanese teams? I would assume youre mostly playing Perry on US Servers, during peak hours. Try US West at 3am and tell me theres nobody seeing you pick pocketing.
Really awesome conversations and guests. Feel like some core issues have been addressed recently and some plausible solutions suggested. Hoping the devs intend on addressing some of these things in the next few months and some of these critical topics are summarized for yourselves in a more easily accessible format so we don’t forget!
Dungeons get Generated once every 2 weeks, initially no minimap but the more you explore the dungeon the more the map fills out, the room isnt perfectly detailed the first time thru so entering the room on 5 diffrent instances will fully paint the map to show doors, trap locations, shrine locations, maybe even a lil symbol to differentiate the kind of mob in room, an if said room has exit portals
I highly disagree about the hotfixes. Gamers are obsessed with patch notes. It’s the only thing they look forward to reading in their lives. Especially the more they play the game. Hotfixes help either fix all the bugs and nerfs/buffs. Once it really releases as a 1.0 the two-week patch cycles are more understandable. This is the time to change the game constantly. Can’t keep treating this game like its a finished polished game
All the bounty pictures in the pregame lobbies should be NPCs in the game that are subbosses and if you kill them you get an item you can turn in for loot or gold. Gives players something to hunt down and travel the dungeon for.
a PVE dungeon would be a great training and learning ground for new people. for sure loot needs to be bare bones. if all tutorial dungeon treasure sells for silver there'd be no one farming it.
I know people who have yet to be banned that have used esp. openly buying gold from websites and esp. it’s so easy to cheat and never get caught it’s sad
What about like an orb tower somewhere random on the map that’s visible on the mini map that will give back all hp, spells, second wind, and replenish all empty potion vials, pots etc. in high hr every mob is nightmare too. With gear scaling idk how that hasnt been implemented yet. Norms regular mobs, low hr hr mobs and high hr nightmares 🤷🏻♂️ makes sense
Goblin Cave did have something of the sorts back when we had both maps combined. Certain paths would be opened/closed and it made traversing it more "tricky".
HONESTLY the easiest way to go about adding more progression would be pve buffs to existing perks for example coming out of stealth as a rogue with ambush you have a 50% bonus to pve for like 3-5 seconds or with warlocks infernal pledge you also deal 25% more damage to demons, make a skill tree with point buy upgrades to all perks & skills that make fighting pve easier so people are more enticed to boss or inferno run.
If you don't play on certain servers you won't run into so many hackers, OCE is rife with chinese hackers, ESP being the most common, pickpocketing is virtually impossible
You guys always have really good ideas in here but I think the idea with the map is not one I agree with. You gotta think with brand new players joining and the randomness of the zone it’ll make even more of a knowledge / skill disparity between new and old players. I just don’t think that’s the direction this game needs to go in to onboard more first time users.
I keep hearing that 299 is super fun but in oce servers have grouped the different GS groups so i just run in with no gear and die to full legendary wizard or ranger
Copying tarkov quests would be amazing. Keep it simple, not RNG grindy. I get they wanna keep their identity, but copying things like stats and the hideout from tarkov would actually be so interesting, and they prob wouldn’t catch flak for having similarities.
player retention =/= fun. tarkov might retain players because it keeps you on the hamster wheel, but that shit is hardly fun. Same with dark and darker, quests and AP grind retain players for a time, but only because they feel they HAVE to check the checkbox out of some sense of completion-ism or FOMO because of seasonal rewards. These things might retain players in the short term, but WILL cause burnout. Dark and darker should not be trying to be Tarkov, they should be trying to be Team Fortress 2, Counterstrike, etc.. Simple, jump in jump out PVP gameplay. That's what made Dark and Darker great in the playtests. You didn't need encyclopedic knowledge of what gear modifiers were good or not, you didn't need extensive knowledge of the maps, you didn't need extensive knowledge of how to most quickly and efficiently get some boring ass task done. All you did was jump the fuck in the game, loot shit, know that the shit you looted was better based on what color it fucking was, and have fun. the goal needs to be to grow, not to retain. and you grow by being fun.
The mobile port of dark and darker has a tutorial, just copy it. I think there would be 0 downsides to a more detailed tutorial. Look at how hunt showdown did it!
Magic has different type's, light dark, fire ... They should have a crack at weapon secondary affects. war hammer maces have "crush" damages heavily slow movement axes light crush, slow action speed. Swords heavy pierce/slash "Heavy pierce" plate armor pen for stabing. Light armor for "slash" light armor pen. Long bows, cross bows heavy pierce plate armor pen, recurve, surv bow light armor pierce/ pen. like 10% on every quality
I dig the idea of no minimap with more map variety. No hud would be awesome (which is an option now btw) but I think that would turn a ton of people off if it was mandatory. I am all about getting rid of the kill feed though. More post game stats showing damage reports, who you killed, etc would be a good trade off. Super stoked for SGF.
ua-cam.com/video/qLxgRUsYcjM/v-deo.htmlsi=g9aAmFH6hfTKDn_o&t=3183 talking about events in the dungeon, I always thought it'd be cool if they made points of interest in the crypts where you can start an event to force what the inferno boss would be. Make it so the whole dungeon knows when it starts and it has some form of timer to completion like hunt showdown. Like going to dark library and starting some ritual and it spawns a bunch of skeletons but your team kills the skeletons and the timer finishes and now lich is the inferno boss. Other players could come in and stop it if they don't want lich but they would also know that your team is there doing that so they can rush over for pvp. It would make the kill specific inferno boss quests feel way less awful to do since you could actually guarantee that boss and crypts would get some real points of interest rather than run around or afk because the loot sucks on that level.
I just came off 2 months keto... it is good but compared to low carb I find it not worth it, just not eating sugar is huge, that is the big one imho. Now I just eat a ton of chicken, no sugar except fruit and as much carbs as i want just avoiding wheat flour stuff, the truth about keto is you gonna loose a ton of water weight early but find out that you still need a caloric deficit regardless. And remember, you dont know if you are in keto unless you do the proper piss test thing or even better bloodtest, its harder than people think.
if the game was on steam now. the hype would be real. and then the negative reviews would eventually roll in which could damage the game more over the long term. the foundation is shaky right now. steam isnt the resolve all bullet
Are the people saying a tutorial would be to easy for new players? What kind of logic is that, just because people have knowledge of the systems doesn't mean they're going to be gods at pvp or pve. Delusional gatekeepers! Let the game evolve, holyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy delusion.
Lmao, dungeonborne is objectively a better game than DaD though :O Also come on it's kind of a bad look trashing on Dungeonborne (an actually good game) while the state of your game is in general disarray and the weekly podcast is basically the most influential streamers all coming together to try their darndest to theory craft how to make the game enjoyable for anyone but the sweatiest people. Dark and Darker had a good idea but the implementation was off on a fundamental level. Dungeonborne just built their game from the ground up to not fall into those same traps. Good luck competing though, I guess the future will declare the victor, but counting a game out because it uses the same concept and same free assets is kinda corny imo.
Add content. More maps. Random maps, sub classing, training tree, guild halls, player housing, arena, open world areas. Make it an MMO with dungeons and guild battles. Make it good.
Esp is blatant. Anytime you have good gear even in 299's you can be on the edge of the map without making a sound into storm and be ran down. 3rd parties and 4th parties at the perfect times. It's every day.
Most pvp enjoyers in solo/duo/trio are clearing the entire map it’s not blatant imo i will literally search the entire map for people in goblin and will always find people unaware looting who probably thought I was esping!
If you need a tutorial to teach you how to navigate the menu's, then this isn't the game for you. Sell your PC and go play candy crush on your mobile phone
Stop rebalancing the game every day I’m sick of everything I like getting removed or changed. I have will not be reinstalling this shit until it is actually fun to play
😮 I see this game following the steps of marauder it's going to be a dead game soon I don't ever plan on coming back and I think a lot of people aren't planning on coming back it was a fun silly little game made by small Dev team but at the end of the day that's all it was I don't think it has much main game qualities to it unless you play the game for money you may disagree but you watch been saying it for months and look at what's happening now
@@_Somayou can get nice prescription glasses with blue light coating that help with eye strain without discoloring everything you look at and you get to pick any frames you want.
Donnys 100% right about this being a more arcadey type game. Sea of thieves is a great example of the high stakes arcade type vibe. So much of these games staying power comes from that shift of messin about with the bois while grabbing some loot then outta nowhere shits just got real and your doing everything you can to keep that same loot.
jay talking about the aura to slowly replenish spells sounds like an amazing passive and can help wizard not sit down 24/7
Glocktane and Y4mi!!! I didn’t know my day was gonna be this good, two of my favorite daders!
Glocktanes Ideas for quests is the way 2 go !
I think an interesting change for the AP system would be to add random missions every time you load into a match. For example in the ice caves, one game you might load in and have 3 objectives such as "Kill 20 kobolds" (Get an extra flat 150 AP) "Kill one player" (Get a 1.2x multiplier to all AP earned during the run) "Loot a legendary treasure" (Get 100 extra AP) and another match you might get something like "Kill 3 giants" (Get an extra flat 150 AP) "Kill 3 players" (Get a 2x multiplier to all AP earned during the run) "Loot 4 epic treasures" (Gain an extra flat 150 AP). The possibilities with this are pretty much endless on every different map and have a double benefit of not only being something to spice up each match and personally I think heavily improve the repeatability factor of the game but they also arent something you HAVE to interact with if you dont want to.
When Donny's ready to poop again, I'm here to put him on an all bean diet.
Glocktane looks like he could be Wilson’s little brother tbh
Great podcast, really enjoyable to listen to. I would love it if in high roller there would be a chance or maybe if it’s 300+ in gearscore only but for every mob to be a nightmare mob or a lot more of them at the very least. I feel like I barely have seen them this wipe as compared to last wipe.
Also please a hell for goblin caves or second layer like deeper in the caves.
I love Glocktane’s ideas of quests and I think there should be more “easy” or simple quests at the very beginning of wipe with rewards like potions and bandages to help new players since they might not the “last season rewards” for playing in high roller. It also helps reoccurring players, the 15x potions and bandages help a ton at new wipe at least for me personally.
Soma I know you’re marketing but this might apply to you and I apologize if not but maybe just spread the message along for more dark and darker merchandise like t-shirts, stickers, dad hats or baseball caps. I’ve seen people talk about not so much money coming into Ironmace after the initial purchase for the game and blue/red stone shards. I think merchandise that is very basic for t-shirts and hats and stickers could sell pretty well, especially if samples are sent to content creators who might wear them on stream so people can see what they look like on a person before buying. There could be maybe a few basic t-shirt designs and also an additional idea to get the community involved: a t-shirt design contest. There are a ton of talented artists from the fan-art on the discord alone and the winner(s) should get a relatively substantial prize or something other than one free shirt for their design. The other merchandise options have been not interesting enough like the coffee so far in my opinion. I would buy even a basic black shirt with “dark and darker” logo on the shirt or hat. The last shirt collaboration they did the website was pretty hard to navigate and was pretty overwhelming with options.
I apologize for the huge text wall but these are all just my opinions, thank you for the great podcast.
You got your wish! High roller nightmare mobs are extremely common now!
20:00 gameplay discussion starts
🙏
My wife and I have been hooked on Fallout 76 recently so its keeping me away from DaD but I plan on making some more content this week :)
The problem with the map gameplay in a dungeon is that people are gonna check the maps from wiki or any other DaD site. Nevertheless, would be cool to have unique features in the game that makes the whole adventuring so much awesome!
not if the dungeon is procedurally generated and is different every time
Literally my two favorite content creators on Dark and Darker! Yam and Glocky. Good episode, wished it went on forever actually. It took me a long time of playing this game to be able to tell who was cheating and who wasnt, I think cheaters are a lot more common, and a lot more sneaky than yall give them credit for. Like Jay, how often are you pickpocketing super sweaty East Taiwanese teams? I would assume youre mostly playing Perry on US Servers, during peak hours. Try US West at 3am and tell me theres nobody seeing you pick pocketing.
Really awesome conversations and guests. Feel like some core issues have been addressed recently and some plausible solutions suggested. Hoping the devs intend on addressing some of these things in the next few months and some of these critical topics are summarized for yourselves in a more easily accessible format so we don’t forget!
Love Glocktane takes, include him to round table discussions!
Y4mi love you too.
Darkest hour guys you too!!
Jay... Vacation!! If not it, then get more sleep, sun, water :D
Dungeon taking a toll on you.
Dungeons get Generated once every 2 weeks, initially no minimap but the more you explore the dungeon the more the map fills out, the room isnt perfectly detailed the first time thru so entering the room on 5 diffrent instances will fully paint the map to show doors, trap locations, shrine locations, maybe even a lil symbol to differentiate the kind of mob in room, an if said room has exit portals
an intro is really needed in this game, doesnt hurt to add it either.
I highly disagree about the hotfixes.
Gamers are obsessed with patch notes. It’s the only thing they look forward to reading in their lives. Especially the more they play the game. Hotfixes help either fix all the bugs and nerfs/buffs.
Once it really releases as a 1.0 the two-week patch cycles are more understandable. This is the time to change the game constantly. Can’t keep treating this game like its a finished polished game
All the bounty pictures in the pregame lobbies should be NPCs in the game that are subbosses and if you kill them you get an item you can turn in for loot or gold. Gives players something to hunt down and travel the dungeon for.
Those are real players from the playtests, a few of them still play. Apollo and Lindstrom are on regularly :)
a PVE dungeon would be a great training and learning ground for new people. for sure loot needs to be bare bones. if all tutorial dungeon treasure sells for silver there'd be no one farming it.
I know people who have yet to be banned that have used esp. openly buying gold from websites and esp. it’s so easy to cheat and never get caught it’s sad
What about like an orb tower somewhere random on the map that’s visible on the mini map that will give back all hp, spells, second wind, and replenish all empty potion vials, pots etc. in high hr every mob is nightmare too. With gear scaling idk how that hasnt been implemented yet. Norms regular mobs, low hr hr mobs and high hr nightmares 🤷🏻♂️ makes sense
Goblin Cave did have something of the sorts back when we had both maps combined. Certain paths would be opened/closed and it made traversing it more "tricky".
seeing the devs with ALL GOLD gear and AURA, roaming the dungeons as LOOT piñatas would be so SICK! one can ask, and maybe we'll recieve!
Ayyyy been waiting for this yammington guy to get on here!
HONESTLY the easiest way to go about adding more progression would be pve buffs to existing perks for example coming out of stealth as a rogue with ambush you have a 50% bonus to pve for like 3-5 seconds or with warlocks infernal pledge you also deal 25% more damage to demons, make a skill tree with point buy upgrades to all perks & skills that make fighting pve easier so people are more enticed to boss or inferno run.
The start of this stream is actually wilding
Cheats are absolutely an issue in OCE, tends to come with a certain player demographic.
Group que that's all that's needed
Donny got drip
If you don't play on certain servers you won't run into so many hackers, OCE is rife with chinese hackers, ESP being the most common, pickpocketing is virtually impossible
Glocktane waffling about blockchain 😂
A cool Demigod reward idea would be a ring on your characters finger, that you can actually see.
I'm going carnivore as well Donny. Ground beef is your friend.
HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO
-Jay
You guys always have really good ideas in here but I think the idea with the map is not one I agree with. You gotta think with brand new players joining and the randomness of the zone it’ll make even more of a knowledge / skill disparity between new and old players. I just don’t think that’s the direction this game needs to go in to onboard more first time users.
I keep hearing that 299 is super fun but in oce servers have grouped the different GS groups so i just run in with no gear and die to full legendary wizard or ranger
Soma applied IM for Summer Game Fest confirmed?
really good point brought up w class identity and passive perks ngl
No oil?
Copying tarkov quests would be amazing. Keep it simple, not RNG grindy. I get they wanna keep their identity, but copying things like stats and the hideout from tarkov would actually be so interesting, and they prob wouldn’t catch flak for having similarities.
player retention =/= fun. tarkov might retain players because it keeps you on the hamster wheel, but that shit is hardly fun. Same with dark and darker, quests and AP grind retain players for a time, but only because they feel they HAVE to check the checkbox out of some sense of completion-ism or FOMO because of seasonal rewards. These things might retain players in the short term, but WILL cause burnout. Dark and darker should not be trying to be Tarkov, they should be trying to be Team Fortress 2, Counterstrike, etc.. Simple, jump in jump out PVP gameplay. That's what made Dark and Darker great in the playtests. You didn't need encyclopedic knowledge of what gear modifiers were good or not, you didn't need extensive knowledge of the maps, you didn't need extensive knowledge of how to most quickly and efficiently get some boring ass task done. All you did was jump the fuck in the game, loot shit, know that the shit you looted was better based on what color it fucking was, and have fun.
the goal needs to be to grow, not to retain. and you grow by being fun.
The mobile port of dark and darker has a tutorial, just copy it. I think there would be 0 downsides to a more detailed tutorial. Look at how hunt showdown did it!
Magic has different type's,
light dark, fire ...
They should have a crack at weapon secondary affects.
war hammer maces have "crush" damages heavily slow movement
axes light crush, slow action speed.
Swords heavy pierce/slash
"Heavy pierce" plate armor pen for stabing.
Light armor for "slash" light armor pen.
Long bows, cross bows heavy pierce plate armor pen,
recurve, surv bow light armor pierce/ pen.
like 10% on every quality
I dig the idea of no minimap with more map variety. No hud would be awesome (which is an option now btw) but I think that would turn a ton of people off if it was mandatory. I am all about getting rid of the kill feed though. More post game stats showing damage reports, who you killed, etc would be a good trade off. Super stoked for SGF.
bro i usually watch it all but sometimes time fly so would help if u could put timestamps of arguments talked about in the pod :D
wtb dwarf, goblin skin soon, my god one day!
ua-cam.com/video/qLxgRUsYcjM/v-deo.htmlsi=g9aAmFH6hfTKDn_o&t=3183 talking about events in the dungeon, I always thought it'd be cool if they made points of interest in the crypts where you can start an event to force what the inferno boss would be. Make it so the whole dungeon knows when it starts and it has some form of timer to completion like hunt showdown. Like going to dark library and starting some ritual and it spawns a bunch of skeletons but your team kills the skeletons and the timer finishes and now lich is the inferno boss. Other players could come in and stop it if they don't want lich but they would also know that your team is there doing that so they can rush over for pvp. It would make the kill specific inferno boss quests feel way less awful to do since you could actually guarantee that boss and crypts would get some real points of interest rather than run around or afk because the loot sucks on that level.
They should make the axe skeleton the boss of the tutorial
I just came off 2 months keto... it is good but compared to low carb I find it not worth it, just not eating sugar is huge, that is the big one imho. Now I just eat a ton of chicken, no sugar except fruit and as much carbs as i want just avoiding wheat flour stuff, the truth about keto is you gonna loose a ton of water weight early but find out that you still need a caloric deficit regardless. And remember, you dont know if you are in keto unless you do the proper piss test thing or even better bloodtest, its harder than people think.
if the game was on steam now. the hype would be real. and then the negative reviews would eventually roll in which could damage the game more over the long term. the foundation is shaky right now. steam isnt the resolve all bullet
First comment!! Thank you for the podcast!
Bring mc back I'll play. Was fun
no i agree remove true dmg and this game will be in a really good spot
Are the people saying a tutorial would be to easy for new players? What kind of logic is that, just because people have knowledge of the systems doesn't mean they're going to be gods at pvp or pve. Delusional gatekeepers! Let the game evolve, holyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy delusion.
Wdonny
Lmao, dungeonborne is objectively a better game than DaD though :O Also come on it's kind of a bad look trashing on Dungeonborne (an actually good game) while the state of your game is in general disarray and the weekly podcast is basically the most influential streamers all coming together to try their darndest to theory craft how to make the game enjoyable for anyone but the sweatiest people. Dark and Darker had a good idea but the implementation was off on a fundamental level. Dungeonborne just built their game from the ground up to not fall into those same traps. Good luck competing though, I guess the future will declare the victor, but counting a game out because it uses the same concept and same free assets is kinda corny imo.
Y4mi ❤❤❤❤
Let's goooooo!
Thanks, dude!
donny i hate to be that guy but its stupid to do a diet you dont want to do your whole life
Add content. More maps. Random maps, sub classing, training tree, guild halls, player housing, arena, open world areas. Make it an MMO with dungeons and guild battles. Make it good.
Yo
Esp is blatant. Anytime you have good gear even in 299's you can be on the edge of the map without making a sound into storm and be ran down. 3rd parties and 4th parties at the perfect times. It's every day.
Most pvp enjoyers in solo/duo/trio are clearing the entire map it’s not blatant imo i will literally search the entire map for people in goblin and will always find people unaware looting who probably thought I was esping!
If you need a tutorial to teach you how to navigate the menu's, then this isn't the game for you. Sell your PC and go play candy crush on your mobile phone
some players literally buy this game because its DnD extraction based... they are new the the genre itself. No need to gatekeep something so trivial.
Stop rebalancing the game every day I’m sick of everything I like getting removed or changed. I have will not be reinstalling this shit until it is actually fun to play
😮 I see this game following the steps of marauder it's going to be a dead game soon I don't ever plan on coming back and I think a lot of people aren't planning on coming back it was a fun silly little game made by small Dev team but at the end of the day that's all it was I don't think it has much main game qualities to it unless you play the game for money you may disagree but you watch been saying it for months and look at what's happening now
jesus soma those glasses are not it my dude
They help with eye strain
@@_Somayou can get nice prescription glasses with blue light coating that help with eye strain without discoloring everything you look at and you get to pick any frames you want.
@@RealNotASpy these were free and took zero time to acquire (and no appointment)
@@_Soma can’t beat free!
@@RealNotASpy I know they look dumb. I’m too old to care at this point in my life lol
Pls don’t nerf forceful shot ranger lol
Wdonny