Narcissism and the fawn response
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2021
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I learned to fawn early in life. I was the ultimate good girl. When I met my future narcissistic husband I was so impressed that he gave me so much positive attention until we got married. After the honeymoon, he started ignoring me and not being emotionally open with me. The trauma bond was already forming. Forty years of trying to please him with little success and much damage to myself. Now I'm on my own and starting to heal and learn who I am...finally!
sending loving hugs. whew!
@@ruby-qv5bd Thank you Ruby. It's been a rough road.
Glad you got out! Just out of curiosity, how long were you together before you got married? Just trying to see how long narcissists can hide their narcissism before they crack...
@@lutecia4398 About two years. We were highschool sweethearts and too young to get married. we were eighteen.
@@toffeeapple7783 Thank you Lillian. It's hard starting over at 62, but I have people who truly love me and I am blessed by that. Thanks so much for your kind encouragement. It means a lot.
This is one of the main reasons I chose to go no-contact with my parents. The "fawn" response is the first thing I learned in childhood, the most deeply integrated response to them is to allow them anything and have zero boundaries. I have sat through some pretty ridiculous moments with multiple family members, as an adult, and only in hindsight did I realize that I at no point was authentic, felt free to speak, felt heard at all, or actually got my point across. Any time I have ever raised an objection I am met with the same reaction and the only acceptable answer is to resort to fawning or I am given the silent treatment.
There's just no authenticity in this relationship between myself and my parents. The times that I have been authentic it's literally as if I'm not speaking (They've literally started another conversation with someone else and walked out of the room while I've been speaking) and it's not uncommon to just never get a response, like the times I've tried communicating via email or text.
Fawning to me is very dangerous when it comes to healing childhood trauma as an adult because it's an immediate compromise on the boundaries I need in place. This is my individual story and why I chose to go no-contact. I don't think everyone else has to make the same decision but this one was mine. I hope everyone is doing okay today :)
This response right here. Yessssss!
I’m also no contact with my parents ( my demons ) for this reason. It makes me so mad that they taught me to be this way from so young it really hijacked almost all my relationships in life so far. My demons don’t even acknowledge it or take any responsibility. Their lack of accountability ignites my flight response LOL yeah who wants to be in fight or flight all the time? Not me I want to be happy and chill.
@@s.tiaira9081 🙌🏾 thank you for connecting these two terms fearlessly together….I haven’t seen or heard someone bravely state this yet and it is healing for me personally, so thank you. Someone else thinks like me or has shared a similar experience. Many of our parents are ABSOLUTELY our demons but mainstream media and society (even most religious and spiritual groups) will not affirm this reality because generally people want to protect parents over children… Period.
But I know this is beginning to end with our generation (I’m assuming you’re a millennial but I don’t want to be wrong). All the best to you.
Well said. I can relate ❤️
Ive often said that the only way I was ever “accepted” in my fam was to keep my head low, accept that I was low man of totem pole and, God forbid, never ever expect the same respect for me or my boundaries as anyone else.
"Healing from narcissistic abuse starts with surviving..."
Wow. I really needed to hear this. Thank you.
Hope you're hanging in there!
can't do anything until we feel safe
And then what? I am still left with the bag in my hand - these are advertisements for products only. She stirs the pot to entice emotion - emotion leads to action - your action is buying the product.
As a child, 7, 8, 9, I got up, after everyone was asleep, and I cleaned house, to surprise my mother. I told her the fairies or elves, came in and cleaned and organized. I pretended I was an elf. I said the elves came because they knew she tried so hard, and was such a good mother and so beautiful, but she had so much to do, that she couldn't do it all.
Wow! And you got very little praise for it I’ll bet
I'm a big time fawner. One of the hardest pills to swallow is realising that the reason I attracted so many narcissists is because of my fawning ways. It's to the point now where I stay away from many of the people I was close to in the past because I recognise the foundation of the relationship was inauthentic fawning. It's a mixture of disgust with myself and realising that I really don't even like these people that much.
I can totally relate. I’m making some big changes now having realised this - people, not just romantic partners, just take advantage
Oh gosh - same here. Just realized I'm a Fawn when i was always told I am freeze. I am embarrassed but its true. I had to as a child to (I thought) to try to get my step sister and mother from abusing me. I was only 5 years old!
Just learned all my friends are narcissists - got rid of them except for one that works on herself too. I have a new friend who is normal and it is soooo wonderful to have someone really like me rather than use me for a narcissistic hit.
I hated them. But also criticized them
But so much also passive-aggressive
I feel that deeply....
Looking back I can see that the common denominator for why I ended friendships, intimate relationships and work related relationships too was realising that I was a magnet to narcissistic people, at the time I would end it when it was already too much to handle and I felt I needed to run from the relationship or get myself in more trouble, I can see that the culprit for all of these relationships to take hold on me was big time fawning! and also the inauthentic part me that carried on even though Deep down I did not like them. Learning about people pleasing, codependency, fawning, narcissism… paying attention to my needs in relationships, sticking to my values and setting boundaries has been very helpful and enlightening. It brings clarity and intention, allowing for a more mature relationships and a peaceful environment.
I survived a narcissistic mother and father and find myself fawning over the most disgusting people! Afterward I feel ashamed and angry at myself. Now I know why I do it. Thank you so much for describing this behavior for me. I can now be kinder to my traumatized self for acting in this way.
We were trying to safe in a narcissistic family. I did the same thing to survive.
@@NopeNotTodaySatan thank you! That was so kind of you to say❤️
Me too. Agreed. I also have Stockholm syndrome I think where I kept going back for more and also trauma bonding which I'm trying to break
The fawn response has typically been my response for years, and I hate it hate it hate it! It makes me feel like I'm failing myself and then I've also felt like I'm not the genuine me because I don't want to upset the apple cart. Meanwhile, I'm draining myself to support others 😪
I very much relate to this
I understand ❤️🩹
I could relate to it sooo much so I could fawn in my sleep!!
Right there with you, Joyce.
Give yourself some credit for being the better person! Because everytime you have to "resort" to fawning, you are actually attempting to de-escalate the direction of the confrontation with a toxic personality.
I fear that anything other than fawning with these hateful people might get me arrested for assault, lol. The BEST thing about having to fawn is that for the most part it takes away from what the narc is contemplating - eating you alive. YOU JUST SAVED YOURSELF, AGAIN, and witheld potential supply from the narc.
I am 1000% a fawner, and highly empathetic and sensitive. Growing up with a narcissist mother, is where this response is absolutely rooted. As a young adult I worked with several narcissist colleagues in the healthcare space and began to become absolutely angry and disgusted not only with their toxicity, but my inability to stand up for myself. I would ruminate afterwards on all the things I “wish I had said” instead which drove me mad. Becoming conscious to these patterns and walking in authenticity is how I was able to start showing up differently. Thank you Dr Ramani as always.
Thank you for writing this. I need to be doing this. Our answer to all of this should be no fawning. Breaking the habitual fawn response in the face of a narcissist. Move from surviving this to thriving this! Yes!
Feel like I'm doing this now attempting to care for my aging mother. Really helpful video as always Dr Ramani. Looking forward to living on my own terms at some point. Sooner rather than later.
I can absolutely relate to the ruminating. I now make myself say something at the time. i don't always succeed and try not to beat myself up if i fail.
@@TheQueensWish I know you are capable of becoming conscious to these patterns and creating new ones! Give yourself time + compassion + grace. It’s so wild too because mid fawning my heart races I become sweaty and disorganised and can’t even come up with something to say never mind saying it. It takes time + practice. Healing is possible and will help you break out of these patterns. I wish you the best 🤍
@@andrea859 I wish you all of the very best navigating your healing journey and living your truth!!!🤍🙏🏽
"My fightresponse is notoriously weak." Mine too. As a kid it has been the best way to get through the days. I have been GREAT at fawning ... Thanks to last years videos of you I can recognize it now and choose to turn it into whatever needed: fluff, greyrock, walk away or even call them out. 42 and getting more mindful and much stronger towards a**es.
Same here! I’m so good at it. Yuck!
Well one learns to survive by not resisting when one repeatedly gets the fight beaten out of one starting at an early age.
“You run one time, you got yourself a set of chains. You run twice you got yourself two sets. You ain't gonna need no third set, 'cause you gonna get your mind right.”
- Captain, "Cool Hand Luke"
My fight response is off the chain. I become absolutely furious, bent on the destruction of narc in front of me. I will only fawn if my kids are in danger, and there's no other way out of the situation.
@@brimstone33 so true😕
My freeze response is great, as well as my fawn response. Noooot very great at fighting. I hate conflict and will avoid it at all costs
The last time I fawned I felt like I needed a shower afterward. Grew up under the control of a narc mother so I don’t fawn anymore. Now I can see it coming a mile away and I just walk away from people. Grateful for everything you have taught us!
I know what you mean about feeling like you need a shower after fawning. The last time I did that I felt the same way. I felt so dirty and ashamed. I think I did shower. As I washed, I told myself that all that “dirt” was being washed off and going down the drain. I felt better afterwards
Watching this reminded me that I should not knowingly associate with narcissists! I have a habit of fluffing on social occasions. Tonight we are scheduled to attend where I am very aware one of the other guests is a flaming narcissist. This gives me the reminder, and backbone, to cancel and do something else. Thank you!
I did this to my brother as he fed me full of BS about a family situation. He didn’t realize I already talked to several family members and knew that what he was telling me was a bunch of total lies. I wanted to see how far he would go and let him dig his ditch deeper and deeper. I never once confronted him (in spite of the fact I can be quite assertive). He thought he conned me and was very upset when I came to town and did not stop to see him. I did see all of his estranged 5 children and ex wives! Will never put up with lies to my face. I feel perfectly fine sucking up to him to see what a shit bag he still is after years of conning my parents, his wives and even his kids.
Between jail, drugs and his “telling his therapist what she needed to hear”….. I have zero tolerance. I have strong internal fortitude and strong boundaries. I survived my entire dysfunctional family. Sometimes it’s necessary for survival.
@@marthaehlenbeck9070 I hear you! In a family situation it is all about survival.
@@marthaehlenbeck9070 Love it!!! I dont consider that fawning, it's more strategic. I'm a firm believer in "giving a man enough rope to hang himself".
He always does. If that's fawning, or fluffing for that matter, I might be guilty as hell, but in my mind it's different! Rock on, sis!!😀😍🙏💖💖💖
I never realized how this is actually me.... 😳😳😳 I do this with almost everyone to appease and keep the peace everywhere I go..ohhh my
You keep the peace AROUND you by destroying the peace IN you. Time to change that little by little or radically. Whatever tactic suits you. 🧡💪
Well said, Mickey Calming. Wonderful insight. Thanks for sharing that.
I’ve only recently learned about fawning. Indeed, I’ve never related to fight, flight or freeze. But fawning, oh yes…I’ve been perfecting it my whole life. It’s the reason I can’t have verbal conversations with my son’s dad. Everything has to be in TalkingParents. On the very rare occasion when a verbal conversation is warranted (just had one this week after three years) I jump right into fawning - validating everything he says. not stating my opinion well, ensuring I don’t “rock the boat.” This has always been my M.O. …back to when I would race home from school to clean the kitchen, scrubbing my step mother’s copper-clad pans until they glimmered. And somehow, I’ve always believed this behavior made me “stronger” than everyone else. The more I could take, the better and stronger I felt I was. And no one ever saw me sweat. It is so much “easier” than the consequences of setting boundaries and ruffling feathers. Wow, now I see…
I’m glad you’re away from him
Wow, I can completely relate, Jane. I too have never really gotten the fight, flight, or freeze responses (well, maybe the freeze response), but I definitely fawn. Especially around authority figures, whether actual or perceived. Lord have mercy! I feel mild nausea over what gets conjured up just typing this. Anyway, may we all stay strong on our healing journeys. 🙏🏼
@@sara86929 That comment hit me hard too, as well as the follow-on that endurance of suffering is preferable to the consequences of setting boundaries! So much to think about here.
@@sara86929 - regarding 'feeling like you're stronger' comment, me three.
It really hit me reading it....
When my sons dad would try talking to me in person i would tell him to contact me via Our Family Wizard then memorialize it by messaging him to document what he said. These people will try talking to you in person to twist your words then later accuse you of something you didnt do. After learning this i have other people do child exchanges for me so i never have to see him.
My main response is freeze then fawn, during my marriage this was what kept me safe. It made me feel shame for not standing up for myself, growing up I always thought I would never let anyone treat me the way my dad treated my mother ironically I married someone worse than my dad.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID.
Me too!
So sorry 💔
On another note, it's not our fault, the fault lies on them ladies and gentlemen, hugs to everyone who's going through narcissistic abuse or have endured this painful experience.
I have to say thank you to all of the truely honest responses. I need to be myself but why is it so hard
I also was the straight-A, dishwasher emptying, model citizen child and grew up fawning and people pleasing to get my narcissistic parents approval. Unfortunately I turned into my mother - narcissistic. Ironically “fawning” became a tool of manipulation. SadlyI am now dealing with the wreckage I have caused my former husband and now-grown children. Thank you for all of your excellent videos Dr. Ramani.
Fawning saved my life when I was a kid, in my culture when a child try to assert his right, he gots either beaten or shout at. So I grew up unable to stand up for my self by fear of "punishment" what helped me to stop it, is when I finally realized that no matter what I did for them, THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE. So I adopted an attitude of, I don't care anymore and I was no longer afraid of the consequences which made my fawn diminish a little. Now when I saw my fawn get activated I immediately cut contact with the person.
Absolutely. I could have written this.
Thank you for that comment---seeing your fawn get activated is the way you can tell you're dealing with someone toxic. So helpful.
I want to get to this point so badly. My eyes have only just been opened and I can barely differentiate between my fawn response and authentic social pleasure. It feels incredibly trippy to be able to distinguish it at all. I do it with EVERYONE, from my best friend to my clients (I have a new job as a mental health worker) and I don't know how to socially "pass" without it. I don't want to lose my job but I'm afraid the real me will be too intense for people because the things that provoke a genuine reaction aren't in the social script. I see everything when I interact with people but my abuser taught me to act blind.
@@Jokaanan That's such an insightful statement: I see everything when I interact with people but my abuser taught me to act blind. You will get there.
@@Naomi-vs1tl given time they will learn to push your button's , nothing changes in those predators from de -- meaning you
I wish you well in your new job
I like that she points out for people not to get angry at themselves. Self-defeat, discouragement, self-hate it all seems to be part of the frustration and distress of the Narcissistic experience. In the long term it has to be bad for people's health.
Sounds very familiar, caught myself doing this with a narcissist, was zoned out and forcing myself to listen, then realized it was something I did as a kid to cope.
Now as soon as the narcissist tries to talk until you want to puke, I make an excuse and exit the room
Too bad I didn't know this years ago!
I can sympathise. I used to listen to the hours upon hours of self-aggrandising talk, nod, smile etc. I did it for years, even though I rarely even half-believed a word of it, apart from the very beginning. I knowledge of this being common.
@@mobwatch8119 Same here - hours upon hours of listening to these girls go on and on about themselves with not a moment for me. It was all I knew and only just now have seen it from the larger perspective of a pattern from abuse. Inside, I didn't even really like them but that made me think I was a terrible person so it kept me bound to them - I kept trying to show myself I was a good person and would keep listening to their endless and detailed stories hoping for a different outcome.
When I "fawn", it's for two reasons: I don't want to start uncomfortable feelings, and the other reason is that in our family, what was considered good manners was to overlook bad behavior in others. Staying silent meant not rocking the boat, or not making waves. I'm realizing there is a better way, but it takes practice to start speaking up in a way that simply lets the other person "hear" themselves. Sometimes it turns out a positive, such as in the response from a brusque or unthinking person, "Gee, I guess that did sound a little rude. Let me put it a better way." Not all people are able to self reflect, though.
It sounds like you’ve done a lot of work to override the fawn response - bravo!
Would love to hear more about your strategies for allowing people to hear themselves if you are willing to share.
You become the target. Everyone would gang up on you if you dared to tell the truth. It’s taken most of my 66 years to not be afraid to rock the boat. I recognize now when people are playing these games. Don’t give up! I’ve outlived most of them.
@@carolynkepler2826 , Rocking the boat isn't a bad thing. I've started to cause tidal waves even, (I'm 69) but I try to do it in a way that isn't mean or hurtful. Not always an easy tightrope to walk! You most likely will ruffle some feathers, but then, those feathers might need it!
@@80islandia , Yes, I'm willing to share. It might be a little regrettable, but a response from me to what I consider a rude remark might have to involve a little snark. Gentle snark, hopefully. For example, I have a grandiose older sister who is a university professor. She's awfully full of her academic self. She likes to correct people, even if she isn't always right. She isn't a person who will self reflect, so she will not care to "hear" herself. She enjoys condescending to others. So when one day she asked me, "Do you ever read books?" (Of course,.... like, who doesn't?) I snarkily answered, "Well, yes I do read, but I would never read any books that include information or big words." She didn't answer. With someone different in character from my sister, who isn't trying to belittle you, but is a little dense and just may not realize how they sound, you might say something like, "Gee, I was feeling pretty good this morning until I ran into you."
@@notagain779 thanks for sharing these examples! I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Agree that a little pinch of snark delivered calmly and mindfully can go a long way :)
I fawned with my ex. It was really to avoid the constant belittling and emotional abuse, but deep down I’m a fighter and eventually that’s what I ended up doing to protect myself from him, after fawning stopped working. I describe it liked a scared trapped wild animal. They can’t run and sitting there isn’t working, so they attack. I also do this with my mother when she triggers me with her control and manipulation. The worst thing however in being a fighter, is they point the finger at you and say oh you “have a problem” and “look how you’re acting”. Which only gaslights me and infuriates me further.
Yes! I've felt and reacted like the scared trapped animal so many times with my ex. Oh he is famous for saying "what is wrong with you, look at how you're carrying on" This thread is so so helpful and enlightening🙏🏽
Yes, growing up I was the cleaner, cook, secretary, clown, straight A intellectual. I fawn instantly and unconsciously with everyone, including therapists. "You always look so smiley and happy." I finally realized what was happening and work so fricken hard to not do that unconscious performance in therapy. I've gotten so much further and have a therapist who is MUCH less confused by me once I was able to explain my realization of this unconscious fawn response. This unconscious performance of "so happy, funny, and smart" is what kept me safe in my life until I finally kicked out the toxic people. Now to become aware of this fawning and learn to reliably switch it off.
Did you learn to switch it off?
This is definitely something I do. Such a relief to know that this is not something I'm alone in, the disgust with myself afterward can be so crippling
Absolutely do this . I feel
Like folding up in fetal position. I feel so disgusted with myself . It also feels crippling
Me too!!
women are socially conditioned into it sometimes called humouring the crazy
@@seabreeze4559 can you explain that please? (I m not very fluent in English)
Betrayal of one's self is the ultimate wound!
I have not heard of this before. You have described my childhood. The older I get the more I see what a crippling effect WW2 had on the children of returned service men and women. Yes we have survived but it has not only been difficult but there was little help for children and adults alike. The blessing is, it is NOW. Thankyou dr r for your time and very valuable information that you freely share. As always , today is a new day, new start a new chance to change our old ways. No matter how old we are.
Oh please don't bring the boomer thing.
There must have been little to no help back then, which is awful, and as you say, lucky that we [all] have it now, I too am so grateful for Dr R and the access we have to information now.
@@LSMH528Hz wow. That’s dismissive, isn’t it?
@@LSMH528Hz you dont understand
Fawn and Avoid are my automatic responses. Fawn if I can't flee and have to interact. Avoid all the rest of the time. Even as an adult, the tiniest challenge/Fight by you to a narc is an opportunity for them to shred you. They don't change, and they must win 😊xx
You can Fight the narc by strongly asserting yourself. Assert your boundaries, your opinions, your actions. Assert No Contact. No shredding allowed.!
Avoid=flight
@@italosblogtalkradio4279 yes, pre-emptive flight 😊xx
The fawn response was so frustrating to me because I personally did not want to fawn over my narcissistic mother at ALL but I was overwhelmed by the feelings of unsafeness that derived from knowing she is upset with me.
My first response was always to fight (not useful), and just when I would go to my room and slam the door, lock myself in and try to calm down, I would get this dread and I could not get rid of it until I would get back to her and beg for forgiveness, pamper her, and compliment her. She would graciously accept my apology, and then I would hate myself for it.
Yep this. Me too
It was the only way(sometimes) that I could get my mother to stop giving me the silent treatment.Thank You Dr Ramani for All your work
I am sorry. That is terrible
Wow! That's soo abusive.
Ah yes I think me too… did most silent treatments end for as just boom she’s back to nice? Or did you get apologies and talk about it?
Me too!!
@@fennerfam8733 Yes Exactly like that!
I was so good at fawning that people would comment about how “well-adjusted” I was. I understood at an early age that telling people what they wanted to hear was preferable to telling the truth. Sometimes, my friends would blurt out something that would have gotten me a humiliatingly loud rebuke. But they would get a laugh and a comment about how cute they were. My mother made a big production about being honest, but she also was a fawner and only told the truth if there was some kind of authority figure she needed to impress.
I was surrounded by toxic fawners and abusers all my childhood. I was repelled by it so much that i became the fighter/truth telling/scapegoat and i still don’t regret the hell i went through to finally see all of this ❤️😌
Fawning is a struggle for me. I'll try to be so friendly will also trying to get my perspective across when someone is classist or racist for example. Unfortunately, the narc will never let themselves be influenced by my perspective and I just end up worse off. Or, I simply fawn and then feel guilty for not being authentic.
Self preservation + non confrontational + codependency ( starting at early age) + empathetic = fawning
We are all a work in progress, thank you Dr Ramani for pointing out something I didn’t realize I have always done ..
to confront resulted in abandonment or death
The fawning response reminds me of how many civilians of an oppressed society seem to admire their own tyrant leader.
Overhere it's demanded by govt. representatives. Better be docile and submissive in city hall or else the corruption cartel of political/religious extremists is going to destroy you. Well, unless your a successful narcissist of their society, then they get all the help they need in bending the rules.
But then I come from the country that invented the word "apartheid" so it figures. Yes, looking at the road many governments are choosing today I fear were headed to another peak narcissism time like perhaps 85 years ago.
One thing you can say about narcissism, it never ends well.
@@LSMH528Hz Exactly.
I am 50 years old and I just learned today that I consistently fawn around anyone who mistreats me. It has cost me so much in life, over and over. So glad I’m finally aware what is going on. I’ve spent my entire life trying to make sure that no one else explodes that I don’t even know who I am or what feelings I have until much after the event. Then I have always wondered what the hell is wrong with me? Now I know. Thank you. I’ve been figuring all this out this week and your video was very helpful. Thank you.
I did that when my dad came to visit. And after I felt so disgusted with myself. I think the reason why is because I hadn't talked to him in a really long time and I made changes in my life that started to make me feel good about who I was. I was finally finding my power. It's nice to know that I'm not alone. 😊
I just left a narcissist last night. I’ve been getting calls and texts from a dozen different numbers, insults, lies, begging and pleading, promises to change. They don’t change. They will always do it again.
He forced me to eat more to gain weight so I wouldn’t be attractive to other men anymore. He told me I was too sheltered and naive to understand the world and needed him to show me how to live. He tried to force me to say awful things I didn’t agree with so that he could record me and blackmail me. It was truly sick how, in only two months, he was able to condition and train me not to trust my own judgment anymore, and even when I knew better, I would just give in to avoid the fight.
He lives like his house is his dressing room and the world is his stage; no one but I saw how he really was.
He would literally tell me that I wasn’t praising him enough. I had to constantly fawn over him and tell him how amazing he was or he would threaten to leave me because I wasn’t giving him what he “needs.”
Glad you're out. Stay safe!!
Stay strong block him
Good for you! Stay safe! Now that you know narcissism you will identify healthy and meaningful people and relationships! We all in this channel are in this together! Stay safe!
Don't go back, stay very far away, good for you and I wish you a very healthy future!
I’m so sorry! Beware of his flying monkeys! You have friends here!!
I have a narcissistic Mother and this is exactly what I do and I do it with everyone. I'm always wanting to keep the peace by making others feel good. That way I can avoid any blame or emotional outbursts, at least that's the desired effect. My authentic self is constantly screaming at me to just walk away, my thoughts of how guilty I'd feel about it later keep me fawning for days, it's quite revolting. Fawning is the perfect term for this, thanks for opening my eyes.
There are some situations where it can be tough to just walk away, particularly if you feel dependant on the person financially or in some other way.
@@mrfacespace That's true and it can trigger exactly what we're trying to avoid. I'm referring to making an excuse, THEN walking away. I could never just walk away, even if I tried. I imagine it would be very difficult if you were dependant on that person.
This describes me perfectly. Fawning kept me relatively safe as a child and when that strategy failed, I turned to rebellion and flight. I have been so frustrated to be unable to completely eradicate this behavior. It crops up when you aren’t prepared to counter it. Yeah, I’ve done the whole ‘mad at myself’ and ‘so damned embarrassed’ thing. Now I can just accept that it’s a conditioned response that I have to be aware of and stop as early as I can. It’s such a relief to understand it. Thank you for these videos. I’m a 66yo survivor of 2 narcissistic parents and these videos have been life changing for me.
I'm 58 and just figured this out. I am embarrassed but now I know what this pattern is. I'm aware so if/when it comes up now - I know that my inner child recognizes a narcissist and will use that response in their presence. I can go grey rock and disappear from their life. Pattern + tool = recovery
I was tortured by narc. Case is going to trial. Torture case.
I no longer want to have anything to do with him. He left me in a state of complete utter shock! I’ve been watching all of your videos because I have to become educated for what I’m about to face.
Check out this other video from Dr. Ramani. I rewatch it now and again because I find it super helpful. It’s about how to not let these people into our lives in the first place. ua-cam.com/video/UdcGsbcANj8/v-deo.html
I wish you best of luck with it all. But... with a trial pending, don't put too much on the internet, wait till after the trial!
I used to have a narcissistic supervisor at my old job and I always used to fawn when he picked me to harass for the day. Until the day my fight responds kicked in and I hit my breaking point and embarrassed him in front of everyone and he never did it again. Thank you Doctor Ramani ❤️
This is my go to trauma response and I wish it weren’t. Flight is my secondary one and is somewhat better I guess, but sometimes I wish I would fight and tell assholes that they are assholes
Yes! I'm currently reading Pete Walker's Complex PTSD right now. It has been so validating and reassuring and helpful.
LOVE that book! LOVE Dr. Ramani! It’s so nice not being alone anymore!!!🙏❤️
I've expressed all of the sympathetic nervous system responses from childhood onward. I fought, I escaped, and I froze. As an adult, I've been a terrible fawner. I hate myself for it. It eats at my self confidence and crushes my authentic self. I've been waiting on the fawn video for weeks as Dr Ramani worked through the other stages, and deeply appreciate her closing advice to be kind to yourself. When she said that a hidden part of me inside broke down with relief.
Me too. Let’s remember to Be gentle with ourselves
@@afterthestorm9355 It's a work in progress, but the older I get, the easier it gets. Best to you...
@@NopeNotTodaySatan Thank you Brina, big hugs back
@@annwe6 ..Aww..bless you Ladies- I looove to watch on here - how supportive and happy for each other we are. xx ;)
You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for! We have to see ourselves as survivors, and peace keepers, and that's exactly what YOU and I are.
We are not alone in our heads, and Dr. Ramani is showing us just that.
Yes! I “fauned” yesterday when I acquiesced to the narcissist who wanted to take something from the marital home that she shouldn’t have! I felt that it was easier to do that than to resist and fight her! In the end, I demeaned myself by doing that!
I think it's very closely related to learned helpnessless based in child-parent dynamics, where you have these parentifying and infantilizing sensations competing and alternating which of course brings about a lot of cognitive dissonance and things like fawning and fluffing are IMHO just the flipside of fixing and overbearing. They're all more or less engaging autopilot reactions. The non-engaging ones would be grayrocking and the like.
Wow!!! Bless U for this revelation!!!
I do this and end up sharing so many things about myself which is often used against me. Its crazy and it's been the way I've been abused emotionally very badly in the end
Yes they fake intimacy to start with to encourage you trust them and overshare.
I have been a "fawn" all my life. I never knew such a thing existed until today after listening to you, Dr. Ramani. Thank you so much. I felt such a hypocrite for doing this, appeasing my narc mom and especially my narc brother, who recently stabbed me in the back AGAIN so I finally decided to go no contact with everyone. This response has made me into a pleaser and worried of what people will say if I mess up. I am slowly working on finding my voice and taking care of myself first before everybody else.
OH MY MY... I never knew this had a name or terminology for such a reaction/response/process!!!! THANK YOU!!! I Have been doing this since I can remember and still to this day my most common go to response or reaction is to Fawn....now it's time to educate myself further on this topic and more aware of myself about this .... WONDERFUL!!!! THANKS AGAIN
Exactly as you just say it, I ask myself that question "Why don't you walk away or stop fawning", they don't even say thank you...I used to do it more often, but now thanks to you I am much more aware of it, and I avoided because fawning does not feel good, it never did, I feel like a hypocrite just feeding this person's ego:( It is better to ignore them as possible, so the narcissists get bored because we do not give them validation. I love giving genuine compliments and celebrating people, I do, but fawning does not feel good. I understand it is a safety response and I thank you very much for helping us understand these responses and to not be hard on ourselves. Thank you Dr. Ramani💖💖💖
wow. This describes me.. I could not have said it better. I really want to be authentic and celebrate people and their accomplishments to; it is who I naturally am! Man, it sucks that I don't even trust myself sometimes now. But I am aware and I know I can do better!
@@monabrown7745 I am glad you can relate to it. It helps making us feel better and that we are not alone. Thank you for sharing your story💜
I deserve the Emmy for Fawning. Thanks for this video. It was very enlightening. I will catch myself next time. 🌺
Now that you mention it, fawning is my entire life. Who knew?
Stockholm syndrome might be the farest thing flawn response goes.
To a point it kinda felt that way.
You describe my life. As the oldest kid, the scapegoat, the truth teller and it brought me to depression,imposter, freezing, anxiety and, I think, Complex PTSD. Relationships are extremely difficult, expressing feelings or God forbid own boundaries... And working environments are my own special living nightmares. I try to learn about CPTSD now but kinda lost hope to find a therapist who gets it. Last time therapy re traumatized me and I'm waddling my way out of that hole at the moment. Pete Walker, Dr Ramani and Dr Ingrid Clayton are my new teachers.
Good luck to anyone going through it, too!
I'm always looking forward to listening to you! you are changing lives !
TRULY
Yes she is.
Fawning is a part of why I burned out and crashed among so many other narcissistic issues. I can remember exactly how it felt when I started my downward spiral because I would feel physically ill. And Dr. Ramani's description of learning this in childhood is absolutely correct.
This was the most beneficial video for me. When I watch the video, I literally cried. I was always aware of my fawn responses. I listened to those narcissistic people’s criticisms, in order to make things right, I accepted all the blame by announcing myself as inexperienced/stupid/naive, and apologized many times. I knew that I didn't make anything wrong, and they were wrong but I never had the courage. Whenever I remember those moments I feel angry with myself, I felt that shame very deeply.
Wow...I feel that 🙏
I seriously feel this. I was a fawner and I feel resentful and angry about it. I had to loosen my boundaries until they disappeared. I still apologize and call myself stupid all the time.
I'm sure a year later you are doing better, and doing less fawning. Now that I recognize I've done this for decades.... I am embarrassed, but now I know.
Oh my gosh I hate when I do that!!! She made me laugh and feel better about it though. She’s so real.
Getting better but still fawning with some of the same people. My awareness of it has been really helpful. The other week at dinner I managed to recognize it and stop myself. It’s a work in progress though!
I've noticed this phenomenon where people would laugh on queue when people said things that they deemed to be funny, and I would stand out because I wouldn't join which typically leads to the person seeming more 'tense' or 'serious' when interacting with me until we have a discussion where I seem amused. I've observed this during healthy interactions. Same phenomena perhaps, or related except taken too far in 'unhealthy' interactions.
Typically the women in the group are more alert to responding how the other person expects them to on queue which matches findings that women tend to be higher in trait agreeableness.
BlackMilk's Music & Linux, OMG, This is exactly what happens when my sister in law's whole family is together.
It's constant giggling over NOTHING. It's more like nervous laughter. It's so INANE!
SIL purchased joke gifts for me *did* and the second I opened the gift she would cowl out a ultra low loud throat chortle laugh at my gift. Told brother to stop. If you make well into six figures; do not buy your sister the cat butt pencil holder and matching tote bag.....for a birthday gift, it goes right into the trash before I get home. You guessed it, I now am 'ungrateful' for the joke gifts. You see I am the only one that gets them and I should be.... proud .,...uh no.
@@pinkposey8134, Sounds like something my SIL would do. It's passive aggressive. And not at all funny, just stupid. Consider the source.
Yup. I was the "perfect child" for 16 years, to keep my parents happy. My brother was the "flight" response, and had a robust life outside of the home and friends to turn to. I resented having to be someone I'm not and even now, if I sense any conflict I go right into fawn and I hate myself for it. It's a reminder that I didn't have the guts to fight then or now. At 16 I realized no grades nor behaviour would ever be "enough" to make them love me and rebelled. Learning about the fawn response was life-changing. It wasn't just me, so many others survived in this way, and some of them even heal. Learning gave me hope.
I'm definitely a fawn at times. Afterwards, I get very angry at myself and at the other person who I feel "duped" me. Learning that I am in control of my own self and it is liberating when I do not fall for the response of being a fawn. Finally walked away from a very narcissistic relationship where I found myself being a fawn as I did when I was a child. Thank you Dr Ramani for your wonderful insight!
This is a bit off topic but a therapist I worked many decades ago told me she was always amazed how kids from poverty and neglect managed to survive. She told me that it was something the were born with like they had a pleasant disposition, had some kind of awareness or wisdom they came in with. It is kind of nice we have name for whatever it was because that probably is the skill that kept a lot of alive. BTW, I like the term placate over fluffing.
"humouring the crazy"
Deep sense of empathy grown from this placating. Which as an adult becomes very useful.
Some kid's have to deal with grown up stuff from a too early age.
Yeah it's just a shame we had to go through that bullshit. Pretty sure we'd have been born those same traits even in a functioning loving family...and thrived in life without years of therapy 🤣
In college I did a paper on this subject. Sometimes when the neglect is obvious there is an 'emotional rescuer' somewhere in the background. But if the neglect is not so obvious, such as when a family is relatively well-off financially, nobody bothers to help because they don't see anything to complain about.
I was so excited to hear you mention Pete Walker’s name. The chapter on emotional flashback has been so helpful in navigating my own trauma and understanding it. (I’m a flight/freeze type) I cannot recommend his work highly enough. I have both of his books.
edit: After some short reflection on this video I think I found a depressing new reason why my mom may not of liked me. It’s hard to get a fawn response out of someone who either hides in their room or shuts down.
Do you think your mom was looking for the fawn response? This is a fascinating thought. I go to the fawn response automatically bc the others options meant swift punishment. But I actually think now how perfect the fawn response is for the narc…it gives them ultimate power, have you doing everything literally for them, and that all fits perfectly into the false reality they make us play a starring role in. Hmmmm. Wow. Thanks for your comment.
Yes, Pete Walker does just awesome work!
"'helpful' is the ultimate 'fawn'" (5:40). . . "because it becomes the child's way of being safe. . . they'll abandon their own needs in favour of what they think their narcissistic parents want or need, and they avoid ever being a bother" (4:48)
This is really powerful. I didn’t realize that fawning or fluffing was a trauma response one could have.
Yes fawning is what I did as a child and have done in my adult relationships. I’ve been disgusted angry ashamed by myself after fawning but I’m working on it stepping away from this reaction. Thanks for helping to explain all of this and sharing as always. I’m able to be more gentle and kind to myself thanks to you
I’m so glad theres a name for this behavior. I’ve lived my life fawning at every boss, elder, doctor, etc. I’m a new woman now and working hard to stop and be authentic. Thank you for this video.
My mother would pay the highest compliment to me when she would say you are so easy you are an easy child. She would then say your brother gives us so much trouble, and you are no trouble at all.
I fawn, I extend help to others ignoring my own needs, I took the duties of the parent when I was a child. I learned and did every trait possible like stitching, baking cooking, gardening, making DIY decors from scratch and at the same time trying hard to get 1st position in my class in studies .
This is the reason I consciously became very quiet in the presence of the biggest narcs in my life. I have learned to say nothing, maybe elicit a tiny smile, but working on being completely non reactive and neutral. I no longer care what people think. It is hard work. I liken it to a graceful swan with their legs going a mile a minute under the water. Just learning to breath and not suck up.
I am so relieved to find out about fawning! I thought I was crazy! I went into people pleasing mode with most powerful narcissists, especially bosses. I felt just like being trapped at home trying to keep my parents calm and keep them from abusing me. But then I thought that surely I am not so fake as to pretend I like someone, but I kept doing it. Really, when they are determined that I have to be the supply or else, then fawning is the path of least resistance. All you have to do is be nice and the idiots stand there praising themselves. They know what they want to hear and they are going to say it. It’s easy to just go along with it. Unless there is a real reason to stand up to these people, I can sit there and watch them pat themselves on the back all day long. Inside I am amazed at how long these people can talk about themselves and think everyone is enthralled. I can see in their eyes how excited they are to go on and on about themselves. The hard part is just disengaging and getting away without making them angry.
Same here - just realizing this now. The friends that wasted all my time talking about themselves to get charged from my energy. All the self loathing because I didn't really like them but couldn't see beyond the veil of the "pattern" of abuse. The traumas in the jobs with cruel women in charge that sent me reeling into therapy and worse. The self hatred when one woman fired me for her personal gratification and abuse and then made sure I would never get any unemployment. I was without a job in a very down market because of her for 7 YEARS! 7 YEARS of shame, self loathing and wishing I were dead. The pain of being "seen" as a loser when I know (because I am fawn) that I am the best helper and my bosses usually love me. The pain is so real, the hurt will be healing though - this I know. Thanks for letting me talk it out.
Wow, my childhood survival skill has a name LOL! I had to learn the fawn response to keep from getting the crap beat out of me by my malignant psychopathic narc father. Whatever his opinion was of anything, no matter how ridiculous or wrong, we had to show complete acceptance or else be judged as a smart-alec. And then get severe punishment, even days later out of the blue he would hit us or take his belt off to whip us because we "said" something days ago he didn't like! As I became a teenager, I did hit that rebellion phase, sort of, as much as I could get away with and have been supporting myself pretty much since I turned 16. Moved out when I was 17. Now in my late 50's and have gone no contact with him for pretty much 20 years. Thank you Dr. Ramani , this is tremendous insight for us survivors!
I go back and forth between fawn and fight, but I am learning to pick my battles and keeping my learning, healing options to myself. Keeping my peace.
Throughout your videos Dr. Ramini, I've learned to be kinder to myself as I realize how I've reacted to the narcissists in my life. It IS about self preservation, whether we act with intention or not. And I learned in childhood what worked best to appease and defuse.
I'm just grateful to have found you and to keep learning about narcissism and making my own conscious decisions.
Thank you. ❤
My experience was a little different. My dad was an alcoholic/narcissist and I would always fight back with him even as young at 7/8 years old (not that it ever made a difference) I’m now 44 and after watching this video I took some time to reflect. What I’ve noticed is that with all my relationships from probably late teens I’ve definitely fawned my way through life. I find it disturbing that the child me had more courage to stand up for myself than my adult self.
I realised how sick it makes me feel when i saw somebody else fawn in front of a narcissist
I didn’t realize how badly I fawned with people until I noticed that whenever I slightly disagreed with a friend or even someone online immediately I’d start thinking “please don’t be mad at me” and the anxiety would set in even if it was an opinion over something that didn’t matter like disliking a song
I fawned in my early childhood, then froze for a while literally shut down. I then became more rebellious in my teens with a fight and flight strategy. With what I know now about Narcissists I must admit I do fluff to a point and if I must be honest which I must I take delight in deceiving them as they confuse my adulation with compliance. I know it's not nice and a little wicked but hey the look of discombobulation on their face when I greyrock later on is priceless. Am I naughty? Probably but I like instant karma on Narcissists.
I thought I was the only person that got joy from deceiving a narcissist.
As you spoke - with each description of childhood responsibility - I realized I had become more shallow-breathing with each layer. That was a very enlightening talk about a fourth F. Many thanks.
I have been such a fawn all my life…so sad I’ve brought that too my child. Oh please please we need to stop this for the children and our future.
First of all, I just want to reiterate that you have saved me. I read Pete Walkers book after watching your video on freeze response. And I scheduled an appointment with a specialist in cPTSD. I could write pages and pages on my fawn response. I never knew I did this until I started watching your videos. What I experienced in childhood was horrific. And I understand now that is what I have done to survive. I have often been described in my adult life as a people pleaser, and someone that has aimed at perfection. (I am a university professor in the sciences and I’m surrounded by narcissists). But it wasn’t until I got into a very dangerous situation recently with a malignant narcissist, that I saw the depths of which I went to great lengths to appease them, when I was very clearly being abused. Fawning is my go to response. I’m happy (and grateful to you and Pete walker) that I now have a name for it. And yes, I feel huge guilt for when I do it, but I tend to dig deep and find compassion for my abuser. And never before was I able to show compassion or protection for self. I’m working on that now (again, thanks to you). My second response is flight, but the fawn response is so deeply engrained in me, I feel much greater guilt if I take that approach. And my guilt level would by far increase to max capacity if I chose fight. To the point I would revert quickly back to fawning for forgiveness from my abuser. Anyways, I could write pages on it. My childhood was horrific, that’s all I can say. And I’d argue there are probably a few more Fs in there depending on how complex a persons trauma is.
These two statements you wrote jumped out at me. "What I experienced in childhood was horrific" and "I am a university professor in the sciences..."
Well done on your achievement in spite of your childhood experiences.
I'm still living this, at 43, with my mother who let me know her boundaries after a recent blow up (being required to be customer service responses to her my whole life got pushed bit too far and my fight response finally showed up...and I restrained myself, she let me know this was my "one and only warning" for losing my temper... I'm also autistic and working on my dysregulation like it's my breathing pattern). Unfortunately, my father recently and suddenly passed; she's made this about her (they divorced almost 20 years ago), and I'm still sharing the space with her and my N ex who also tried to make the death about how he "wanted to comfort me" that came down to him missing me and all about him.......SO I have been the "ultimate companion" until I ended up unable to take care of myself, fibro, and then back to my mother's house in a trailer in the backyard.....this video confirmed, validated, illustrated, and shared all that I have struggled with.... a friend, one that I am starting to realize is a healthy one-that has their own personal autonomy and healthy boundaries, which feels foregoing to that push/pull tenuous dynamic I grew with. He helped me to remember I'm not safe yet, in the living situation, and to give myself more grace when I have time alone, to be able to continue to gain the independence needed not only for my mental health, but for also my kids..... thank you so much for articulating this experience and the pitfalls of self loathing that can come with the awareness.... this is helping me be more gentle with my inner child than was ever modeled before, for me, while I worked so hard to be this for my kids, it's starting to build that bridge of connection within me: I deserve to treat myself with the same unconditional and understanding love I share and show my kids. And they has shown me what a healthy bond (just hanging, just being, just existing is enough to enjoy each other) can be. Thank you.
Fauning response is destroying the dignity and soul of the narcissist victim so happy I listened to this video so I can aware my clients and my patients
This was my response for most of my life! Fawning and boundaries go hand in hand. CBT has helped me rid myself of this response. I still have my moments but my main issue right now is my fight response 😂 it’s so new to me bc I’ve fawned for SO LONG. I’m hoping DBT will help me balance out my fight response
You amaze me! I'm continually learning from you. I didn't know what fawning was and I didn't know you can be financially abused. I didn't know until this year my mother was a narcissist. So, yes, I'm Queen Fawn. Had no idea. I was the placater, appeaser, peacemaker. Made me feel sick after, tainted. You have some how taken "crazy" and dissected it into educational guidance. I am so thankful for you!
So fitting that I just did this last night and this coming out today. Like to shower people with love and making them happy. Its part of who I am
@@toffeeapple7783 I like showing people lots of love and try to be peaceful when facing conflict. That might be different from the video as it seems she is referring to being passive even when you don't want to be
It is more challenging with people who continue that behavior into adulthood. They are horrible roadblocks to truth tellers.
their narcissist validationists willing or not.
Pete Walker is TOP. He himself experienced narcisistic abuse by his Mom and he writes about is so touching. He really has a deep understanding about this topic and did great healing work on himself and with others. I SO MUCH RACOMAND HIM. Love that Dr. Ramani mentions him, she really HAS the knowledge combining narcisistic abuse and childhood trauma, inseparable. Love her and hope that Pete Walker, thanks to her will get to know by more people. He's hard to find on UA-cam but his Web-page really is wonderful. Check him out if you are serious about healing yourself and not giving your energy away to the narcisist.
Thank you for all your videos. I remember fawning as a child. I couldn't get away from my mom. I felt like I was walking on thin ice. I thought she would treat me better if I did all she asked. I remember doing everything I could to please her and it was never enough. Once I hit 14 it was war in my home. My mom then began to treat me worse and I met her where she was. We could not be in the same room for a long time without a verbal fight. Thankfully I am working on not allowing myself to react rather respond now and remember she has issues and it is not my fault. Some days are easier. I find that at times the past trauma tries to dictate my present and I have to remember I am not the abused child anymore. I can live better and be a better parent and spouse. I can't change the past but I don't have to allow it to run my life.
Absolutely. My memory of these "fawning" responses, were that, in the end, I got abused, anyway. Unfortunately, I, also fawned, in subsequent relationships.
Only recently, in my last 3 years, since retirement, and triaging out, the narcissists, in my life, have I stopped, fawning. I use flight, instead.
When I think back, I saw on the face of the narcissist, that I was going to get abused, anyway, later. Now, I am trying not to beat myself up, for those fawning responses, in my past, and give myself a break.
I didn't get a chance to do everything for my parents, because me doing threatened their competency. I had to always be available to help, to be there to listen to them and to show great appreciation for what great parents they were. I'm learning showing appreciatIon is huge with the narcissist. When I now hear people complain about not being appreciated enough, I know it's pretty much guaranteed that I'm in the presence of a narcissist.
Wow hearing you say it out loud made me realize ive been doing this my whole life. I went from my mom to foster family and then my girls dad. Wow. The more I learn the more disgusted I get with myself when I catch myself doing it 😑😬👀 it took a really long time but I’m
Getting better and learning to live for myself. Thank you so much for this. I appreciate you so much 💖
Fascinating podcast, didn’t know about the fawning terminology but very familiar w tactics!
The kids and I mastered this technique w their dad as a way of walking on eggshells. It bought us time of ‘peace’ before the shoe would eventually hit the ground.
I’m glad you mentioned how you can go from being the “perfect fawner” to the fighter/rebellion thing… what sort of things can lead to this switch? I’ve always been confused by myself because as a child I used to fawn within my home, as I stepped into puberty we moved states and I started having more of a fight response, still just within the home, yet I fawn or freeze with any other situation
My Narrastic father would evoke a HUGE fear response in me. My mother also but in more subtle way.
I have visseral memories of nearly wetting myself in sheer terror in my father's presence.
Ironically I've got an Idealized view of the man even to this day.
It benefits survivors immensely to check in on how they perceive their abusive caregivers. The inner child will hang on to the Idealized view as if his/her life depends on it.
In many ways this was a needed strategy. Children often can't comprehend their caretaker's are dangerous
I’m having trouble relating to the fawn response. I think my flight response was much stronger, needing to hide myself, even in plain sight. So, I was quiet and shy, but if my invisibility slipped, it would open me up to bullying.
I forgive myself for my trauma responses and focus on how I can do better next time. I try to not focus on the content of what the offensive person is saying. These are not conversations bc a conversation is a back-and-forth exchange of ideas, perspectives, and insights. These are diatribes and dramatic soliloquies and I treat them as such. I ask myself: “what is the easiest and safest way to get myself away from this hurtful person and their hateful words?” I ground myself when I notice I dissociate (identify a few things you hear, see, smell, etc that are not part of the noxious stimuli, like the ground under your feet and a bird chirping). Focus on the breath. Remember that life is going on in spite of the chaos from the toxic person, and you deserve to be a part of that life and it is within reach. I won’t always address the toxic persons cruelty except by giving calm and personalized support to other bystanders, esp to someone vulnerable who deserves to hear that this is wrong and not normalized everywhere. I remind myself and teach others that engaging emotionally will only damage your own health and wellbeing, and this person will still be a jerk. Try to let the angry person wear themselves out without giving them too much of an audience. I might say “thanks for sharing” in the same way I would respond to someone who showed up to an AA meeting in a drunken, babbling stupor. I think that’s a grey-rock response bc it is boring and unemotional. Understanding our own trauma response is an essential step and learning how to work with it are advanced steps. Act instead of react by training yourself to be ready for these situations by having a toolbox of possible responses, like how a martial artist knows when to block and dodge punches and kicks, when to fight, and when to run. There is no shame in any response, just information that helps you make a better tactical decision for next time. You will be proud and more confident in yourself when you have a plan and realistic expectations for yourself. You don’t have to prove anything to the offending person bc it won’t work anyway, there are no words to make them see the light of day from their narrow, miserable perspective. The most you can “prove” is that there is a way to not let petty people rattle you. Don’t let their higher status intimidate you. Remind yourself of the value of your kindness, compassion, and empathy, things that the most respected people on Earth, including Jesus and The Buddha, considered the most valuable characteristics. As Jewel said in her interview on Dr. Ramani’s podcast, try to see anxiety (and other strong emotional responses) not as something to fear in of themselves, but as a sign that you have ingested something that doesn’t agree with you and your values. The emotional response is your body’s way of trying to purge you of the effects of being exposed to a toxic person. The escape plan from future interactions with toxic people (grounding, breathing, reminding yourself of your value rather than feeling intimidated by the power difference and hurtful words from the offensive person), those are like blocks and dodges to minimize the chance of you taking a damaging hit.
One of the scariest nights of my life was when a date sort of tricked me into staying with him under the guise of me staying in a guest bedroom that didn't exist. I fawned and froze, and I was terrified that he'd hurt me if I didn't leave, but I couldn't. For years I blamed myself for the situation, cuz I thought "well its not like you *couldn't* speak up", but I really couldn't make the words I wanted come out. It happened again with someone I knew in a much safer situation, he was putting his arm around me and even asked multiple times if it was okay, and I said yes while trying to say no. I can't imagine feeling more powerless.
I never realized being helpful was a “fawn” response but it makes total sense. I learned it from my mother who had a Narc father and husband. Smh. But it was her way of surviving.
this one really resonates and reminded me how easy it is for me to slip into codependent dynamics and attempt to rescue someone as soon as I feel sorry for them. thank you for being a guest on Red Table Talk and pointing out, among other things, that having someone feel sorry for you is a form of manipulation. never would that have even crossed my mind had you not said it. guess it's time to second guess what some people say after their actions don't match their words.
I’m no longer Bambi, or Bambi’s mother. My rifle has had a daisy in the barrel, now it’s in the garage, who needs a rifle in the city, nobody. I needed information about how to protect myself and leave the bitter feeling behind. Yay for us ❤️ Ramani is a lifesaver.
Yep, definitely find myself fawning over some of my clients when I first meet them. A few have been rather narcissistic, and I have to just listen to them boast and brag, and I get stuck in this "fawning" song and dance. It makes me feel so pathetic and unauthentic. What's worse is the fawning encourages them to keep talking about themselves, ugh. It's sometimes just really necessary though in order to secure bookings with new clients. But I totally feel disgusted with myself after :(
Dr Ramani, thank you for explaining what I observe in my fellow brothers and sisters of narcissistic abuse. I do not fawn well at all and use freeze and flee as often as I can.
I am capable of fight, but chose not to for fear of becoming what I dread. With your tools and the knowledge I’ve gained, I can “fight” by going DEEP and honoring the boundaries that I have worked very hard to set.
I had no idea that this behavior was hurting the Fawner inside. I’m so sorry for all of you, and truly, all of us. What a waste of joy and energy. Let’s work to get it back!
Dr. Ramani, thanks so much for sharing your personal experiences. I've had "fawn experiences" all of my life with one particular narcissist, and have felt ashamed for doing the nod your head in understanding thing. It literally brings tears to my eyes to hear that my responses are natural and instinctive.
I had to fawn for my and my mother's safety as my brother was dangerous. At the time I was in the trauma, I had no idea what I was doing. It was a response not to rock the boat to make sure he did not get angry. I had to secretly take back the money he was trying to steal for my mother's care, and when I did that at first he got angry and dangerous so I devised a plan to get the money back from him without his knowledge. As long as I was calm, peaceful, thanking him for visiting etc. I was fawning to keep us safe from his wrath. I would not call it fluffing bc I had no idea what I was doing until I was able to leave him and my family behind to process WTH happened to me while taking care of my mother.
Lack of bonds make us fawn and admire real bullies 🔥