Its such a strange feeling, thinking that no one understands you, and then you click on a video of some lady on the internet and she reads you like a book lol. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!! Much appreciated!
When I isolate and am alone that’s when I feel most like myself and I feel safe to be myself. When I am with others there is an automatic reaction to be who they want me to be instead of me being me! I’m so lonely and yet I feel best when I am alone.
I hope that you are doing better, and if not that's okay too. I can really relate to what you wrote. I am very isolated, and am still working on trusting myself. I have started to be really honest, not like trauma dumping, but also not trying to appear better than I am for fear of shame/rejection. I started writing and sharing fears with a small group of strangers (no preconceived notions) that I met through a Crappy Childhood fairy zoom call. It's amazing what strangers can relate too. It's still scary, but very rewarding and good practice. I wish you well.
Does anyone else remember being really outgoing as a kid - only when the adults weren't around? I was really good at making friends with other kids because I felt like it "didn't matter" and I could just be myself. But I clammed up the second an adult came in the room and put on my "good girl" face. I was scared of getting in trouble, and over time I felt like I had to wear that mask all the time. Now I'm trying to reconnect with who I am and express that to other people, but it's so hard to put the mask down.
Yes. I have adhd and was always in trouble in school for talking too much. In middle school I lost friends for being to excited about everything. So I learned to always be in control. Now I’m a complete control freak and can’t even have fun or let loose unless I’m at home alone with my kids. It’s awful. I don’t know how else to be - in control of my adhd or a very hyper happy me that isn’t socially accepted. Meh. So glad to have found this channel though, what a huge help! Best wishes to you!!
Interesting you mention this, it was my first notice of that when I was a kid that made me question the narrative that I was worthless. Still working on that, knowing this about CPTSD has made all the difference. We all get labeled like there is something wrong with us, while no attention whatsoever is given to those who put us in this position in life. I can deal with the pain, it is the loss of potential I am having the hardest time with. All I can say is, own your issues and stop passing them to children. One of my greatest accomplishments in life was stopping this madness in my kid's generation so it does not continue.
I'm learning not to fawn and hide from people. Too many years of being taught to be a doormat. I'm also learning who's worth my time and effort as against wasting time on people who aren't.
🙋🏻♀️ this is me! Fawning, putting everyone first but ME. I gave my whole life away. As a kid I had to fawn to survive pretty brutal physical abuse. Brutal childhood, brutal marriage. My husband passed and now I’m putting myself together trying to find and restore myself. I’m writing because I loved writing as a child. Thank you so much for lighting the path with your hard won wisdom Dr Sage, wow your name fits perfectly 😊
Most of my life I have been a fawn. Now that I'm older and things are different in my life, I'm not so much anymore. But once in a while, I'll catch myself being too much of an empath and not presenting myself with a sense of worth and confidence. It's something you have to watch about yourself. Self care is still a huge issue for me. It's a battle I face every day. Thanks for ALL your videos!! They are so very helpful.
Identity crisis is the result of fawning, our natural character becomes so heavily compromised by fear-based accommodating behavior as in fawning, that we lose touch with our authentic self, in this foggy soup of people-pleasing, we are literally trained like a dog by the narcissist, with a smack or a treat. A powerful way to help map back to your authentic self is to meditate. Specifically meditate to reconnect with the simple, original position of conscious awareness, prior to the mind. Resting in Consciousness, Resting in Being, just simply Being, before any self-idea arises, before any thought is had about anything. If thoughts do arise, they are merely seen from the witness position, as a process in Consciousness (the same as the weather, or the movement of the oceans by the moons gravitational influence are processes in Consciousness) and not identified with or followed, just calmly witnessing the procession. This is strengthening the ability to be responsible for attention. A total holiday from conceptualization and trying to figure anything out, trying to make any sense about anything. Feeling into that core stressful motivation that unconsciously drives you into any pursuit, that mixture of excitement, fear, anxiety, hopefulness, recognizing its origin, and relaxing it. The relief is profound, and it is realized how much energy we expend in this emotional pursuit of chronic thinking and self-reflecting, and how this makes us feel emotionally, on the level of feeling awareness. Then the penny drops about how powerful attention is, we are in charge of this tool, attention, its is like a laser pointer, and whatever you come to rest on, you will feel it, have an emotional response to it. We are like addicted dreamers, lost in reveries. Wake up from the spell of mind, the spell of our story, to greatly accelerate healing you can take responsibility for attention. Energy flows where attention goes. "You become (or duplicate the qualities of) whatever you meditate on (or whatever you identify with via the "surrender" that is attention itself)." ~ Avatar Adi Da Samraj
There's no such thing as healthy people the worlds full of selfish narcissistic toxic people that are motivated ego an pride that thinks the world should see life to there PERPECTIVE an are dirtier than theyed ever been not given a chit about NO1 not even the 1 s closest to them an if they can kick you while your down even on your death bedin some cases of there enough for them to gain or revenge an old out of date resentment they never forgave you for.The average or above average person is a devil in disguise these days an like Andrew Womack says if I was God I kick the in tire human race out into outter space.
@@HeartFeltGesture THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED TO BE REMINDED OF. BEAUTIFULLY & INTELLIGENTLY WRITTEN, ALSO. THANK YOU. SO MANY TIMES, THANK YOU. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@Carrie Lassiter this is my reality as well. Coming to realise how much my giving in for the sake of peace has influenced the position I am now in. I am also learning to do better though.
This definitely hits home to me. Fawning is something I did to keep the peace at home and to survive as a child. Its TERRIFYING to acknowledge my wants and needs because I'm terrified of people thinking I'm selfish. Obviously, looking after your own needs is not being selfish but it's so hard to break the conditioning of fawning. Our emotions lie to us constantly but our mind believes what our emotions are telling us and it all gets so damn confusing!! Anyway, the more I practice the better I get at looking after me.
Same here! I agree with this so damn much, my god. Now t hat I moved out of the house, I still get these seemingly random triggers where I get overwhelmed by small mistakes and drawing attention to myself. Drawing attention to myself is what my parents saw as a cardianal sin because I am autistic and express myself differently than most. My parents would lecture me regarding 'bad' behavior and 'reward' good behavior. I internalized this to such a degree that "Bad behavior" = bad person and good behavior = good person. My parents would tell what was rude, or considered rude, and I just never had been able to like. Work with that. It was this afternoon where the following clicked with me: "Rudeness implies that a boundary is crossed". And my parents were just unable to clearly explain boundaries and tie my actions back to how other people/I would feel. I just felt completely disconnected from everything and everyone around me and did my very best to become as palitable as possible. Thanks to a lot of therapy, I am able to set boundaries with people, including my parents, and express my needs to my direct environment. The only people that see my internal anxieties, are my closest friends. To them, I still over apologize and express my self doubts. With them I can be vulrnable and I learn to receive their kindness. People still consider me to be very considerate which I frankly quite like. I love being considerate of others. I love taking care of people and making them feel safe and loved. But, when they start to push my boundaries then it is gonna be a conversation. Yes, I love you a lot and I also want you to take out the trash before you leave for the weekend. Please and thank you.
And when you do start to set boundaries, you find you are surrounded by users who liked you only as a fawn. Be ready to lose some friends, though you may eventually replace them with other, healthier relationships.
I truly wish you could be my Therapist, most of us, feel so freaking alone and that nobody could possibly understand you! We struggle as children, we struggle as adults, especially if we do not get help. The majority of us, don't want to come out weak. Then to add chronic severe pain to your life..... We're basically all alone! Even with family, we don't want to bombard them at all. Yet we're seen as troubled or outcast in the World. I'm so tired, of hearing people say "there's people worse off than you, be grateful you woke up this morning". So our feelings are seriously diminished. It's truly a never ending cycle/battle with our inner selves. 😢
Fawning has been 💯 me. It just feels so icky. And I hate myself for doing it. And then I hate myself for hating myself. And my self-worth becomes less and less. It has been a vicious cycle of self-loathing. 😔
Exactly! I'm an INFP and on the one side at my core I'm very independent and proud, but I'm also fawning because I can't stand someone being angry at me and then I don't respect myself for not standing up for myself.
Wow does this hit home. I went ten years into adulthood without seeing a doctor or dentist. Once I did start seeing a doctor, my mother’s comment was always “why are you bothering the doctor?” She had me convinced that I didn’t deserve healthcare.
I’ve intuitively noticed the fawning response in myself over a decade ago, researched trauma and cptsd 5 years ago - but I STILL UNCONTROLABLY REACT WITH FAWNING in 90% of any human interactions. I became a recluse to stop fawning triggers because mulitple therapies did not lesson my fawning response.
💕 Just practice. You can play out scenarios in your mind or literally talk it out playing both roles by yourself. As we practice something it becomes more natural to do it. Before you speak or react to a situation, take some moments to decide how you should present yourself as you respond. Don’t let yourself immediately and automatically respond with fawning. The waiting before responding takes practice too. We all understand. 💕
Same for me. It's quite disappointing when all our efforts show nearly no change. But we have no choice but keep trying. At least a tiny positive change would cheer me up.
Noticing and understanding is just the first half. You need to delete/replace those compulsions. They EMDR, IFS, and maybe sprinkle some somatic therapies. I've almost stopped fawning because of these.
I'm the same way. I have made a conscious decision to not try meeting new people until I know I have changed because I can't bear to be cast into my same old role in relationships anymore.
You have to put yourself in relationships so you can create new habits. It's like pushups, you can only get better if you do them. Ik it's easier said than done, a safe space to practice might be group therapy so you have a community to go back to
I so appreciate Dr. Sage for honestly sharing her own struggles with social anxiety and business networking and how, instead of trying to force herself into an unnatural (for her) social and business mold, she was compassionate and accepting of herself and utilized her skill of resourcefullness to make her business model fit her natural temperament. Loved that. I felt encouraged by her example. I have struggled with accepting my own social anxiety/avoidance for decades. Thanks, Dr. Sage.
I've noticed in many cases, I know people who over apologize when it comes to unnecessary stuff - but they can't give a real apology when it counts and would repair the relationship.
I have such a huge problem with this. I’m a middle aged self employed carpenter. My “helpfulness” is tied to my income, besides it being a coping strategy from being a kid, raised in a narcissistic family system. I can see now that it dramatically reduced the amount of attacks towards me by being highly valued. But I can go into fawning without realizing it and offer to do things for customers as a solution to their situation and realize afterwards, why did I say that, why did I offer that? What the hell just happened? I have worked hard on internalizing that I am allowed to change my mind and I am safe to communicate it with honesty and integrity. That helps as a means of dealing with it but the fact that it still happens has caused a lot of hesitation and distrust in myself making estimates way harder in ways than ever before.
Tell me about it. If I were you, in theory at least, I would do a little extra for people who struggle with money. People who are well off, I' d be pretty firm with fees. Perhaps it would be helpful to always make an estimated cost to the client before you accept the job? The client agrees and there' s clarity what you're doing and what is the cost. One reason I cannot start doing a specific business is because I would not be able to charge people. This is true. I suppose Elvis had the same issue, it just showed up him feeling obliged to give money and expensive presents (a house, a car...) to people. Had I money, that' s what I'd feel obliged to do. I don' t know who I am. Due to my childhood role, I end up listening to people who talk non stop about themselves and enjoy my concentrated listening abilities. They don't care to hear about me. I often wonder, who the °ell am I. I am better off with my most lovable dog. I am pleased to make him happy.
There are so many of us like this...I try to give myself some space before making a decision..."let me run some numbers and I will get back to you," or I'll have to check to see if I'm available then" That gives me time to decide what I really want to do....also, "I see your point, let me give that some thought"... I wish you the very best and I hope you never get taken advantage of by anyone
@@louisetaylor6952 Thank you for commenting. Despite it being very uncomfortable, I do what you say here. If I’m triggered into doing projective damage control, I do all o can to commit to nothing. But it’s very overwhelming. I’m getting better with repetition and speed of realizing I’m disregulated. I have rescheduled estimates multiple times, seeing that it ok that I claimed some space and the world didn’t end. I’ve said some of the very word tracks you wrote and being genuinely honest with people seems to make them drop their guard a little or maybe at ease with my intentions.
I realized a little while ago that I really have no idea who *I* am and what *I* want. My whole life has been about trying to live up to other people's expectations. The thing I enjoyed doing most (art) has been tainted and has become no longer enjoyable because that's ALL that I am to other people: The Artist. "She draws so well!", "maybe you can draw something for their birthday", "why don't you and [niece] do some art projects?". And now that I've hit a major artblock after dropping out of art school (again, because other people wanted me to go, not because I particularly wanted to), it feels like I've lost whatever put-on "identity" that I had. Now I'm just floundering. I don't know what I want to do and don't know what would bring me lasting joy because I never gave myself the chance to find it
Oh, God! I literally mean that cry to God. Three minutes in and I am awestruck and bawling. I"m working on healing. I can see this SO CLEARLY how and why I've had so many narcs in my life. As long as I wasn't in a relationship, I was functional and highly productive in business and at peace with God, isolated - not letting anyone in. I'm disabled so this was a necessity.. But the isolation, my whole life long periods in between relationships, was also a response to the narcs and relationships that left me so unfulfilled. And, I'd seem to over-give and couldn't do both work and the relationship. with an emotionally unavailable man. Well, I've been celibate and single for 30 years. I'm traditional. I just figured i couldn't find the right man and was serious about being a Christian. Making my way out of narc friendship now, or Borderline horrible sabotage and utterly wicked, having to get all my belongings back after ghosting. I trusted again. Well, this time, I have discovered SO MUCH help on youtube and internet, like this beautiful Dr. Sage here. This video cuts so deep in a good way - discovery and crystal clear seeing something I've yet to know. WOW! JUST WOW. I knew my nervous system is wired because of trauma and neglect narc mom, but I've mostly just been collecting videos as I"m hanging by a thread to get safe and settled to heal. I've watched some videos and have started to heal, but mostly i've been preparing. Already, I've come a long way. You are never too old to heal and give yourself the love first and have richer relationships. Don't look back. And, if you've been hurt by narcs, don't give up on love as I did. You have so much healing available to you, therapy, and doctors on the internet - youtube here - to heal yourself so you WILL have that love and marriage you deserve. I may or may not get it. I know one thing is that I am shaking it off and healing deep. Already I am so much freer. I just haven't had the chance to utilize and systematically put myself through therapy on the internet. Some may need to see a doc. Maybe I will. I am more of a hands on, help myself one. And, these coaching and learning videos are INCREDIBLE. I am deeply grateful to you, Dr. Sage. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'm in the midst of heavy trauma now through brutal circumstance and I am already so much stronger not just from before I met, but through understanding what' i've learned so far and facing the pain within, defined. That's the key. One has to be able to see and define the hidden pain and how and why we've had such troubled relationships. I never believed from first discovery what narc was that I attracted them. I knew that there were the others before in my life. It is the WIRING through the childhood trauma. So, we respond unhealthy , destructive to ourselves to these kinds that are wicked and traumatize. Yes, I call them wicked. The weaklings never did introspective work in their lives. They are cowards and cruel. I don't forgive them, nor do i have compassion for them. I have been doing introspective work since teen, reading self-development, psychology, and facing all the pain in life. They NEVER face it, are not accountable, are intentional in their actions, without remorse, cruel, vindictive, spoiled brats. Many of these narcs and borderlines are this way because they were spoiled brats with trauma from neglect and the patterns, but they NEVER took responsibility, practiced their wickedness, chose this, and exploited and harmed others with INTENTION. Shame on these b-turds from the pits of hell - including my mother. I'm not bitter, though this is where i conclude. I release them and shake them off. I understand them all to well to know I do not choose to forgive them. My mother i forgive, because that is different. But, the narcs not my mother and borderlines, i do not.
If I am correct, then fawning is a response to a perceived threat. So, if we are fawning in our relationships, the question becomes, why do we feel threatened in our relationship with others? Could it be something to do with a pyramid shape? We fear authority figures. We are terribly insecure with peers. We prefer to 'date down' but this in unequal and gives no satisfaction. Is the insecurity with peers a mirror image of our relationship with our siblings ?
I've had a traumatic childhood from a narc household. I've seen so many others have a similar childhood and heal WAY later in life ( 40s, 50s, 60s, etc. ), IF they heal at all. I have honestly been more afraid of NOT healing and holding myself back, than I am of putting in the work to heal and be better. I am in my early 20s, and I can fairly say my core mother wound is now a scar. I have an entire life ahead of me to keep healing minor tendencies ( like fawning ) and truly live in the moment. C-PTSD can seriously destroy you if you allow it. It really is up to you to take massive action and heal. Good luck to anyone on this healing journey, it is NOT easy, but it IS worth it!
The reason you see people in their 50s 60s and 70s just now healing is because we didn't have videos like this. There was no family systems therapy. There was no cptsd. There was no one to talk to. You have a wealth of therapists and a wealth of information. We didn't.
Dear God!!! I walk around with a limp. I bite down on a rag rather than go to the dentist. I literally told a boyfriend ,'I don't matter,you do.' I fix, mend, help and order other people and their lives. I attract THE most selfish human beings. One partner said,' If you need help with anything, just imagine I'm not here and then do it yourself.' I eat bad food in restaurants because I don't want to offend the waiter. When I'm not helping or fixing others I lie down (on the floor) and don't do anything.
You deserve to feel better and treat yourself with RESPECT. Dump that person who said that to you, go to the dentist, get into a yoga or dance class, and tell everybody to suck an egg while you get better. Seriously.
Thank you so much for making this video. Would you mind making more videos on fawning? Every point you made describes me to a T. I was horribly bullied as a child during most of my formative years and then I'd come home from school to a violent/neglectful alcoholic father and my mother coped with it by SCREAMING at her children. Her moods were unpredictable and to this day the sound of stomping footsteps is a trigger. Our parents had horrible fights in front of us All. The. Time. If they were screaming at each other though it meant they weren't screaming at us. And for me, being bullied is NOT a little trauma, it is a Big Trauma. There was no adult I could turn to with my feelings, let alone needs I didn't even know I had (I grew up in a small town, the parents of my bullies were all friends with each other and the teachers). I learned very very young that if I appeased my peers and parents they'd lessen up for a little while. I also feel like there's so much shame around this particular trauma response because almost by definition its where you don't stand up for yourself. You're a coward, weak, a push-over... "she just lets people walk all over her so she deserves it." It's SO HARD to talk about because again, people think you deserve it. I feel like I am blamed for my own trauma. Anyway, thank you for the video and I'd love to see more on the fawn response.
I relate to your childhood a lot. My coping mechanism was being class clown to survive at school. At home I hid from my rage-aholic dad. Us kids (and mom) walked on eggshells to keep the peace. At 65 I still avoid conflict until I usually get defensive, then feel shame for how I sometimes react. Bullies disgust me, and I still defiantly stand up to them. It's complicated.
THIS!! 💙🙏🏼 So painful… constant bullying, the heavy footsteps, loud sounds made by human hands, shouting, crying…. Ugh…. Feeling like an utter disappointment and perpetually pleasing to lessen the pain…. 😓 Yes…. Please more info on fawning. 💙🙏🏼
Wow, you articulated this SO well! I’m so very sorry you’ve had to endure all of this. You were a precious child and that child is still within you and is still precious. You are NOT responsible for all this trauma and you get up and tell yourself that every day.
Your story is very similar to my own. It's hard to even acknowledge, because I honestly never saw my mother as a narcissist (I think more like Borderline Personality), but she was like your mother in many ways; angry, yelling...and then there was the beatings, the hair pulling, slapping, throwing of things, etc. We were terrified of her and then she went back to work when I was 11 and from that moment on, we learned to take care of everything on the farm. Chores began at 6 am, feeding the horses and goats, milking the goats and also cooking cleaning, shopping when I was old enough to drive. I was also horribly bullied at school, but mom was not a safe person to go to, so I was 'sick' a lot and lived in fantasy land. My sister says that I was a hyper-sensitive child and so everyone was careful not to make me cry. *shrug* I realized as an adult that I am HSP, very intuitive, and empathic. (My dad was very intuitive as well) I have known I had c-ptsd for many years now, but I really connected it to trauma in adulthood, because once my mom left and divorced my alcoholic dad when I was 17 (dad was funny, hard-working, life of the party guy) she became a totally different person, very kind, loving and for many years dove deeply into self-help...back in the 80's. However, I grew up to marry a horribly abusive alcoholic, divorced and was with another alcoholic for 8 years who was a lot like my dad, but also a cheater. After we broke up, I've spent the past 6 years on and off working on myself, therapy, self-help and I was horribly obese as well and lost over a120 lbs. over a 15-year period. I still struggle with weight, which I believe is part of my self-sabotage programming, low self-esteem, etc. I eat really healthy...for the most part, workout now, and have connecting weight issues, self-esteem with childhood trauma, relationship trauma and still peeling back the layers. I am currently engaged to someone who is sober and struggling with his own trauma from also being the child of alcoholics, was terribly neglected and then went on to marry a narcissist. He finally divorced over a year ago. We communicate beautifully with each other and support each other's healing journey.
Such a great round up of fawning! This is WHY I'm SO passionate about conscious parenting! I spent most of my life fawning/masking as a late diagnosed Autistic person, and so much of my life has been exactly as you describe... I've done so much healing to be able to stop relying on this coping strategy. My young daughter is hypervigalant and I believe relying on fawning due to being conditioned by my emotionally immature parents, just as I was, to be the Golden Child and it makes me SICK with worry! She was taken away from me 8 months ago, due to my perceived 'mental health issues' which was really me part way through healing and having dropped the fawning and reigniting my more true fierce advocating nature, and trying to get her the help she desperately needs... My toxic family threw me under the bus saying I don't believe in boundaries and discipline and that 'shes always been this way'... That's all it took for services to place her in my parents' care..! No amount of explaining myself and how I'm an SME in intergenerational trauma and attachment theory etc will get services or my parents to acknowledge just how clearly I have a handle on this situation and my daughters true needs... We are now caught in the family court system and may be for another year or more! It is heartbreaking.
@@skippy7208 Many thanks. It certainly is! In the meantime I'm continuing my education in my niche and building an online platform for a mental health coaching business specialising in neurodivergancy and international trauma. I'm a formidable businesswoman and warrior mama so they will have a very hard time discrediting me when we do finally get to court!
Awful!.. hope you get the outcome you deserve. My family were put through a similar situation 2 yrs ago now. My daughter had a knock on the door one night from social services from one of her twin sons having a bite mark on him from his twin brother, school had reported it! Turned my daughters life upside down & mine. I had to sign a contract stating I would not let my twin grandsons side 24/7 which put enormous awkward strain on our family & huge strain on mine with my daughter! I complained to head office about how social services need to change their approach as the way they approached & invaded, infringed on our family was disgraceful & HUGELY damaging.
This is so validating. I have been listening to CPTSD and HSP-related stuff for a long time now (unfortunately only discovered these things later in life) and I learned a lot and it helped, but I think this is the first time I've ever heard a talk that touched this exact nerve. I knew I was a "chameleon" (before I ever heard the term) long ago and actually thought it was something to be proud of. Now I realize all the pain inside of me that came from pretending that my own self didn't matter at all. I have been so damaged but have experienced so much growth and healing. Unfortunately, I doubt that bouts of depression will ever completely disappear though I am grateful they occur less and less often because I know how to protect myself from triggers more and more. Thank you for this validation.
I just found your videos!! Amazing! I have autism, masked till diagnosis at age 57 last year, loads of trauma etc.. Can never relax and now have 3 autoimmune diseases, one of them temporal arteritis, just been diagnosed. Everything you are saying makes so much sense. I've been actively trying to heal for decades and your work is so valuable. Thank you from the bottom of my heart 🥰❤
I did not know what fawning behavior was until just a little while ago, I am a terrible people pleaser and fawning is a defense mechanism I definitely use. I'm going through some personal growth right now and the fawning behavior now drives me crazy I hate that that's my default tendency it annoys me so much that I do this I am trying so hard to stop!!!
This was me. Up until last year. I'll be 31 this October. It's a VERY hard to pattern to break out of personally as I've experienced childhood trauma. It landed me in tonnes of trouble and that caused more trauma ! Cause I'd be quiet and not speak up if my friends' came up with stupid ideas back in school and somehow, whenever we ended up in trouble, I'd be blamed even when I had nothing to do with it and I'd willingly take the blame . I wouldn't speak up for fear of being left out in the group. It caused me years of pain and misery. I can't rewrite the past but I can choose to do better in future.
When you mentioned the workplace environment, schools and teachers came to mine. Most elementary teachers are females who start teaching at a very young age and never do anything else career-wise. There may be a strong correlation between the demise of educational quality and teachers not standing up to bad practices showing up in our schools. They want to keep administration and parents happy. (They are fawning.) Schools have been diverging from the basic responsibility to educate and have started taking on responsibility for fixing society's problems. (Yes, I know "correlation is not causation," but sometimes it might be!) In the eighties, they took on self-esteem and cooperative learning. Teachers were pushed to become nurses, therapists, social workers, policemen, and parents which greatly diluted their ability to address education, the only skill they were trained to use. As immigration increased they took on responsibility for solving all the issues involved in language acquisition, inherent differences in cultures, gangs, etc., without acknowledging the impact on our culture and the political, long-term implications. They became increasingly political as they were forced to address race and sex. They started telling kids what to think instead of giving facts and teaching critical thinking skills. Perhaps they lacked the confidence to stand up and critically assess what was happening to education and say no to doing things not in their job descriptions. One administrator praised teachers at an awards banquet with these words, "Teachers are the most flexible people I know. They take on without complaint any job they are given." Our society does not respect teachers. Perhaps they don't respect themselves. Always wondered about the saying: "Those who can't, teach." It should have been, "Those who can't say no, should not teach."
I'm so grateful to hear these thoughts! As you were talking, I was like "Wait, you mean not everyone does this? I thought everyone was like this." Work in progress! Thank you!
I love how honest and relatable you are with your own stories and issues (and the way you speak and express yourself). Especially in this video how you showcase that we don't need to make ourselves be the standard that society seems to expect but can still be functional and useful in our own ways. Thank you for your knowledge and putting yourself and your unique way out (t)here.
Caught myself doing the “I’m sorry” thing last night…the quickly following it up with “no , I’m not sorry.” It was like I finally realized there is no need to apologize for being me. These people don’t know me and I owe them nothing. So who cares?
For me it feels as if in the short run I can have more mental peace by avoiding being a “burden” as well as by making sure others needs are met before mine, even though I know that in the long run it’s been detrimental to my mental and physical health (and, even for my life plans). 🤷🏻♀️ I hate it, but it feels so hard to stop being this way.😕
I spent the last 20 years trying to undestand why life was so painful. I did so much therapy and tested for nurodivergent behaviors like autism and ocd and also sought if i was a narcasist and other mental illness. Turns out it was all childhood neglect. I cant undescore how difficult it is to navigate adult life when having been neglected as a child.
When you described the problems, I just "yes, yes, and yes". Recognized everything. One problem with this is that if one gets to see a therapist, one automacitally scans for what they want (what kind of patient, what kind of therapy)....
Kim I have listened to a number of your videos and find them to be very "accessible" and supportive. Also your production - especially the audio - is just excellent. Thank you for doing this work, it helps people who are struggling.
That’s the problem with putting EveryOne 1st We’ve taught them we come 2nd..😏 Including OurSelves🤯 & now I’ve recognised this & am desperately trying to set boundaries etc family etc are getting mad. That’s the thing The only people mad at you setting boundaries are those who benefited from you have none. I feel so sorry for MySelf how I neglected MySelf all my life🖤
This is so helpful. Speaking of the extent of helpfulness of therapy- if therapists could recommend videos like this to watch in conjunction with therapy I’ve would have gotten so much more out of it than ( what i see as) superficial and short term help from CBT.
I enjoy being around people a lot, they give me more to think about and laugh and smile about, even if it is usually a fawning response. But when I finally am alone again, I realize how exhausted I am, how much I've forgotten to do or still need done that day, and can finally just watch or play the things I was dying to that morning
WoW Dr Kim when u said ‘ I exist in response to other people’ described me and my life to a T. Such an understandable way of explaining it rather than just putting others before urself. I’m learning to exist as an individual now as most everyone believed a smear campaign and the ill and very malicious intention of it. I appreciate learning from ur knowledge, thank you 🙏🏼. I finally get to remember myself in my own right.
Exvellent. I ve searced exactly this information without finding it, until now. It is a huge void not knowing who I am because I've surrounded myself with people whom I am there for. Even an old school mate needed me to be a furniture to whom this person can talk aboit themselves, non stop. I leave exhausted wondering where do I come into my life. There' s lacking the mirror people about me, balanced give and take.
So interesting, I recognise much of this in me. I know that people used to vomment on my apologizing for everything. I can’t say what needs I have, other than, food, sleep and clothing. I don’t know what a normal family is like, or how it differs from enmeshment.
In my 70s now, and I'm only just beginning to realize I've spent my whole life trying to adjust to other people and to society. I had a 'good' childhood but despite that, my fawning has always been through the roof, with all the characteristics mentioned in this video. But I've come to realize that I can't tolerate the chit-chat trivial BS which society endlessly goes in for and which is mentioned in this video, but which I've always vainly attempted to join in with. So I no longer attempt to totally join in with this, and I focus more on where I'm at and the conversations I need. Detaching myself from the trivial side of society has given me a feeling of inner authenticity and power like nothing else has, and I've had to re-evaluate what my idea of femininity has always been, to understand that it can also include personal power. Thank you for this video.
Wow! I think every point applied to me😵💫 I never knew there was a label (fawning) for it but I know it came from growing up with an alcoholic father and then a first marriage to a narcissistic alcoholic. So much fear and trying to be the perfect child/wife and never succeeding (at least at the second one) I was always labelled the "perfect child" because, in hindsight now, I stifled all my needs and tried to do everything to stay out of trouble. I have always been the caregiver. Wow again, I could go on and on but thanks for this. 🙏💜
I've for decades wondered about my very stiff and tense body, and only recently (I'm almost 46) understood it to be a trauma response. I'll start looking into this, thank you. I thought my family was weird and had to hide the truth for others: my grandmothers deep depression, my dad left, my aunt's extreme anger.. I discovered others described my aunt as so funny and cool - I never knew her that way, I only knew I couldn't risk breaking that facade to anyone. So I guess I started to tip-toe...
I think my mother had BPD and NPD characteristics and as a result she never showed interest in anything I did, except when she planned it. She never ever asked me anything about my life, my thoughts. She died 2 years ago. She needed constant reassurance that she was loved but she was bottomless in that regard. Without exaggeration she knew nothing about me. As a result because neither parent were emotionally available and neither knew anything about me, I have trouble talking about myself outside of my partner. I'm a great conversationalist and can draw the other person out and hsve them talk endlessly about themselves and at the end of the night they will know very little if anything at all about me. I probably would have made a great spy 😂 . I'm not sure how to change that. I will have to work on it.
I am like you, Dr. Sage, about not being able to have real conversations with people. This is extremely difficult today due to political correctness. We are afraid to say anything. Being real isn't easy.
🌱🌏💚 I cycle through responses. Ie: a fawn response triggers a fight response. Then.... sensory overload, meltdowns & burnout. Cptsd & undiagnosed (until recently) ASD. An absolute mental f🤬king nightmare. Thank you Dr Kim, I appreciate your videos & candour very much. In the process of finding the correct therapy & life support for my specific needs. It's really difficult but I'm determined to not exist in this mental prison any longer.
With so many 'difficult ' personality people we encounter daily, not fawning is not always an option, as it has served us well to spot behaviour in others that are bound to walk all over any boundary regardless.
I think that fawning makes normal people to stay away; they probably think we want something from them or that we are narcissists love bombing but the only people who don't get fooled by fawning are narcissists and that's why we sometimes wonder why we attract so many narcissists and that's because they see us through and in our way to walk, move, talk, etc. It's so sad being brainwashed to be doormats and that's where our shame dwells in; not being true to ourselves although it's subconscious and there shouldn't be any guilt but awareness.
So we are left with a compromised and confused identity. We have been like an actor, who has become lost in character. Who Am I, before any of my story? This is a profound question for anyone to ask, and it puts you into a state of mindless presence. There seems to be a duality of the thinker and the thought. Who Am I?, before any thought or self-idea arises? Who Am I, prior to my inner narrative? If you can observe thought, if you can Witness thoughts arising to your awareness, this must mean you truly exist in a position prior to thought. What do thoughts do to the Native Inherent Happiness of Being Itself? Meditation is a matter of coming to rest in the native position, the mindless feeling of Being. The ability of being able to focus attention, to become aware of where your attention is going and how it is making you feel. It is not a matter of fighting against thought, it is about a relaxed observation of the thought process itself, instead of the usual unconscious fascination and absorption in the content of thinking. What would happen if I only existed in the prior position of mindless embodiment? Is this Enlightenment? Is This Reality? Is This Truth? Is This Happiness? While we have been psychologically abused and had a sustained identity crises, and been made to suffer greatly, we have also been afforded the opportunity to deeply consider our identity, because it has been so greatly challenged by an unbalanced force, after the result of being raised by a mentally unstable caregiver.
Observed thought,prior thought to araign, governed perception and thought broadcast are each outside of the type of mental activity that you can classify as thought.Neurosis of that may ignore the thought one plus one is two,so linking acuity and aptitude to some forms of criterion eg flight,form,stream,perserveration,verbigeration would seem rational.
I've become very aware that I have an unhealthy need for validation from other people. Now, I kinda 'short circuit' and go numb when I realize again and again that I worry about doing the next little thing because someone might object/reject. Kim, I admire your willingness here to again and again express your vulnerability and your strength in a consistent flow of communication. I think you're doing great things here... and I'm grateful.
I relate to the validation need. As soon as someone disagrees..I think to myself There it is, “I’m wrong I’m different what should I have said.?” I can no longer have a debate with anyone about anything either, as soon as they say something about my opinion it triggers the belief that I’m wrong and difficult and My brain shuts down completely. I actually go silent. I’m flustered and have to walk away than I’m told “see you’re mad” You always think your right.. no I just can’t think of something else to say. I can’t defend my opinion once someone tells me you just think your right or deflects the comment with something I did or said in the past. I’ve become an introvert to stop feeling so much pain 😢
When I was young and at school. My school would always find something to distract me and my confidence. I would always seem to say something or do something and I would be in trouble. Basically been in the same room. This was very good upload.
I was a director of a non-profit and then owned my own business, and both of these careers required me to try and network. I wanted it to be easy like it seemed for others, but it just never was, and I always dreaded it and was completely drained and exhausted afterwards. Sometimes I would leave too and feel defective. Until recently I had no idea what my problem was, and I felt so faulty compared to others to whom it seemed to come so easy. Thank you, thank you for sharing!
Ive been working on these issues for a life time. There were times i thought i conquered it. Ha, all i was, was self destructive. I didn't face it, or realize what, or why i was behaving reactive, defensive, and a push over, instead of being a Deliberate Creator.
Some might think that they don't matter. But for others it's a conclusion that we don't matter for the world. Easy to fight symptoms. But people fawn for a reason.
Kim your skin and and hair well all of you inside and out is beautiful thank you for dealing with fawning just what i need at this time in my healing journey ❤❤
It's incredible how accurate your description pictures my childhood and present life. I wonder how much pain I could have avoid or still avoid if you could be my therapist or if I would have seen you for years. I have all those issues it's really hard
Oh you make me smile so much, yes I think one of the best things about modern life is no uncomfortable phone calls now!😂 I relate to all of this so much and am slowly learning to let go of being everything to everyone but me to myself ❤
Maybe I’m rare but here’s what happens with me. I either put someone else’s needs first and completely lose myself or else if they put my needs I lavish in it so much that I neglect the other person. It’s like it can’t be a give and take. It can’t be reciprocal. It has to be one or the other. Period. Ironically even when someone is giving me everything I want I STILL lose myself through inmeshment. This is why at nearly 50 years of age I have never had a relationship past 6 months. I simply fall apart. Totally disfunctional. It’ll be that way until I die. I’m not even looking for pity. It’s just a fact and I don’t care anymore. It’s simply not worth it. Life is too short to try and overcome such torture.
This is such an affirming talk, Kim. I can’t thank you enough. I thought it was just me and I was so ashamed of being like this. Now I can see how I developed this response and I can also see how to begin to come back from it.
Great description of the ways fawning manifests itself. But would like to see more about how to heal it. Especially how to find people who can "hear" you, when you finally learn to express yourself.
Thank you Dr Sage. I couldn’t stop my tears listening you. My father was abusive and alcoholic- I have managed others to manage myself all my life. Today I am dependent for my meals too . I want to rebuild my identity. Thank you for the strength you have imparted through this ❤
I have been watching the past couple of weeks several of your videos and today I would like to say THANK YOU! Your loving and caring way of speaking, your simple way of explaining with hands-on examples and overall just being very authentic, like in this particular video. Because the truth is that we ALL struggle, we all have our fears, insecurities, traumas, challenges, including therapists, doctors, coaches and who else is out there in service to others. And it is beautiful and inspiring to know, that we can be vulnerable and open about our struggles, learn how to cope with it and inspire others with our own story. I could say so much more, however I'll leave it at this. Your videos and messages are caring, loving and compassionate and it is of great support. Thank you
Whoa! There’s a lot to unpack in this video. Fawning consists of so many behaviors than I thought. I recognize myself in many of the examples. Some I have addressed. So many that I haven’t. Recovery is a slow process like you said and it is never one straight line up. I sometimes feel like I’m playing whack a mole! Thank you Dr Kim! I am saving this video to a playlist so I can listen as many times as I need to ❤
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and own personal story. I know it helps me know that not only am I alone- this is something others have gone through and are also going through. You have taught me so much. Yes I am a Fawn/Freeze- but I am still very thankful for your knowledge and helping me with self-reflection.
Yesterday I had a breakthrough an hour after discussing a difficult colleague with my boss and my boss dismissed it I realised this was my bosses total inability to deal with it and that he should be taking steps to manage the situation.
I just sat here a truly cried for the first time in years because you nailed it, you described me to a tee, where I go from here I'm not sure but to know that someone gets it is amazing
Dr. Sage, your videos hit home for me every time. I grew up as an only child to a non emotional narcissistic mother. My mom passed 2yrs ago, plus my only child as graduated college moved a plane ride away. Now, I'm learning and loving on myself. Thank you for your videos.
I lack the ability to say no when people ask me to stay late or work on my days off. Then resent them for even asking. I also resent people when they can't read my emotions like I can with others. When I want to be left alone because I resent them for sharing their feelings with me when I have shut down and they want to share more. When I shut down and don't talk, that means don't talk to me about your feelings and what you're stressed about.
Its such a strange feeling, thinking that no one understands you, and then you click on a video of some lady on the internet and she reads you like a book lol. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!! Much appreciated!
Seriously! Suddenly you feel that you’re not alone… there ARE other people who get you.
Exactly
Everything will be ok !
Right !
When I isolate and am alone that’s when I feel most like myself and I feel safe to be myself. When I am with others there is an automatic reaction to be who they want me to be instead of me being me! I’m so lonely and yet I feel best when I am alone.
I understand. I am working on relating to others differently.
I hope that you are doing better, and if not that's okay too. I can really relate to what you wrote. I am very isolated, and am still working on trusting myself. I have started to be really honest, not like trauma dumping, but also not trying to appear better than I am for fear of shame/rejection. I started writing and sharing fears with a small group of strangers (no preconceived notions) that I met through a Crappy Childhood fairy zoom call. It's amazing what strangers can relate too. It's still scary, but very rewarding and good practice. I wish you well.
Me too.
You just explained why all that assertiveness training I took years ago never stuck: the issue runs much deeper.
I almost get a panic attack if a person puts my needs before their own cause that goes against what I was thought, my needs always comes last.
Same here. It feels very unusual
That’s the problem with putting EveryOne 1st.
We’ve taught them we come 2nd! Including OurSelves..🤯
I was just driving thinking about this and googled to find something related to. So happy I found your comment and this video too
It just occurred to me that this is why I am happier at other people’s birthday celebrations than my own.
@@proper.role.model.819 I've done some research and I think this is related to the fawn trauma response
Does anyone else remember being really outgoing as a kid - only when the adults weren't around? I was really good at making friends with other kids because I felt like it "didn't matter" and I could just be myself. But I clammed up the second an adult came in the room and put on my "good girl" face. I was scared of getting in trouble, and over time I felt like I had to wear that mask all the time. Now I'm trying to reconnect with who I am and express that to other people, but it's so hard to put the mask down.
Yes. I have adhd and was always in trouble in school for talking too much. In middle school I lost friends for being to excited about everything. So I learned to always be in control. Now I’m a complete control freak and can’t even have fun or let loose unless I’m at home alone with my kids. It’s awful. I don’t know how else to be - in control of my adhd or a very hyper happy me that isn’t socially accepted. Meh. So glad to have found this channel though, what a huge help! Best wishes to you!!
Absolutely 😢same here now I don't even recognise myself 😢
Interesting you mention this, it was my first notice of that when I was a kid that made me question the narrative that I was worthless. Still working on that, knowing this about CPTSD has made all the difference. We all get labeled like there is something wrong with us, while no attention whatsoever is given to those who put us in this position in life. I can deal with the pain, it is the loss of potential I am having the hardest time with. All I can say is, own your issues and stop passing them to children. One of my greatest accomplishments in life was stopping this madness in my kid's generation so it does not continue.
@@SS-in1tsfind the right people that embrace that side! I found some communities of a bunch go weirdos
Yes!!!
I'm learning not to fawn and hide from people. Too many years of being taught to be a doormat. I'm also learning who's worth my time and effort as against wasting time on people who aren't.
🙋🏻♀️ this is me! Fawning, putting everyone first but ME. I gave my whole life away. As a kid I had to fawn to survive pretty brutal physical abuse. Brutal childhood, brutal marriage. My husband passed and now I’m putting myself together trying to find and restore myself. I’m writing because I loved writing as a child. Thank you so much for lighting the path with your hard won wisdom Dr Sage, wow your name fits perfectly 😊
I fawn and don’t even realize it until I’m alone after the fact. Gross feeling.
Most of my life I have been a fawn. Now that I'm older and things are different in my life, I'm not so much anymore. But once in a while, I'll catch myself being too much of an empath and not presenting myself with a sense of worth and confidence. It's something you have to watch about yourself. Self care is still a huge issue for me. It's a battle I face every day. Thanks for ALL your videos!! They are so very helpful.
Identity crisis is the result of fawning, our natural character becomes so heavily compromised by fear-based accommodating behavior as in fawning, that we lose touch with our authentic self, in this foggy soup of people-pleasing, we are literally trained like a dog by the narcissist, with a smack or a treat.
A powerful way to help map back to your authentic self is to meditate.
Specifically meditate to reconnect with the simple, original position of conscious awareness, prior to the mind.
Resting in Consciousness, Resting in Being, just simply Being, before any self-idea arises, before any thought is had about anything. If thoughts do arise, they are merely seen from the witness position, as a process in Consciousness (the same as the weather, or the movement of the oceans by the moons gravitational influence are processes in Consciousness) and not identified with or followed, just calmly witnessing the procession. This is strengthening the ability to be responsible for attention. A total holiday from conceptualization and trying to figure anything out, trying to make any sense about anything. Feeling into that core stressful motivation that unconsciously drives you into any pursuit, that mixture of excitement, fear, anxiety, hopefulness, recognizing its origin, and relaxing it. The relief is profound, and it is realized how much energy we expend in this emotional pursuit of chronic thinking and self-reflecting, and how this makes us feel emotionally, on the level of feeling awareness. Then the penny drops about how powerful attention is, we are in charge of this tool, attention, its is like a laser pointer, and whatever you come to rest on, you will feel it, have an emotional response to it. We are like addicted dreamers, lost in reveries.
Wake up from the spell of mind, the spell of our story, to greatly accelerate healing you can take responsibility for attention. Energy flows where attention goes.
"You become (or duplicate the qualities of) whatever you meditate on (or whatever you identify with via the "surrender" that is attention itself)."
~ Avatar Adi Da Samraj
There's no such thing as healthy people the worlds full of selfish narcissistic toxic people that are motivated ego an pride that thinks the world should see life to there PERPECTIVE an are dirtier than theyed ever been not given a chit about NO1 not even the 1 s closest to them an if they can kick you while your down even on your death bedin some cases of there enough for them to gain or revenge an old out of date resentment they never forgave you for.The average or above average person is a devil in disguise these days an like Andrew Womack says if I was God I kick the in tire human race out into outter space.
@@HeartFeltGesture THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED TO BE REMINDED OF. BEAUTIFULLY & INTELLIGENTLY WRITTEN, ALSO. THANK YOU. SO MANY TIMES, THANK YOU. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@Carrie Lassiter this is my reality as well. Coming to realise how much my giving in for the sake of peace has influenced the position I am now in. I am also learning to do better though.
@@deemaysie6568 same here. We just keep learning and trying and slowly we do progress. I’m working on kindness toward myself.
This definitely hits home to me. Fawning is something I did to keep the peace at home and to survive as a child. Its TERRIFYING to acknowledge my wants and needs because I'm terrified of people thinking I'm selfish. Obviously, looking after your own needs is not being selfish but it's so hard to break the conditioning of fawning. Our emotions lie to us constantly but our mind believes what our emotions are telling us and it all gets so damn confusing!! Anyway, the more I practice the better I get at looking after me.
Same here!
I agree with this so damn much, my god.
Now t hat I moved out of the house, I still get these seemingly random triggers where I get overwhelmed by small mistakes and drawing attention to myself. Drawing attention to myself is what my parents saw as a cardianal sin because I am autistic and express myself differently than most. My parents would lecture me regarding 'bad' behavior and 'reward' good behavior. I internalized this to such a degree that "Bad behavior" = bad person and good behavior = good person. My parents would tell what was rude, or considered rude, and I just never had been able to like. Work with that.
It was this afternoon where the following clicked with me: "Rudeness implies that a boundary is crossed". And my parents were just unable to clearly explain boundaries and tie my actions back to how other people/I would feel. I just felt completely disconnected from everything and everyone around me and did my very best to become as palitable as possible.
Thanks to a lot of therapy, I am able to set boundaries with people, including my parents, and express my needs to my direct environment. The only people that see my internal anxieties, are my closest friends. To them, I still over apologize and express my self doubts. With them I can be vulrnable and I learn to receive their kindness. People still consider me to be very considerate which I frankly quite like.
I love being considerate of others. I love taking care of people and making them feel safe and loved. But, when they start to push my boundaries then it is gonna be a conversation. Yes, I love you a lot and I also want you to take out the trash before you leave for the weekend. Please and thank you.
And when you do start to set boundaries, you find you are surrounded by users who liked you only as a fawn. Be ready to lose some friends, though you may eventually replace them with other, healthier relationships.
I truly wish you could be my Therapist, most of us, feel so freaking alone and that nobody could possibly understand you! We struggle as children, we struggle as adults, especially if we do not get help. The majority of us, don't want to come out weak. Then to add chronic severe pain to your life..... We're basically all alone!
Even with family, we don't want to bombard them at all. Yet we're seen as troubled or outcast in the World. I'm so tired, of hearing people say "there's people worse off than you, be grateful you woke up this morning". So our feelings are seriously diminished. It's truly a never ending cycle/battle with our inner selves. 😢
Yep on the "I don't matter." And if you think any other way, you're "selfish." This whole video was very relatable.
Fawning has been 💯 me. It just feels so icky. And I hate myself for doing it. And then I hate myself for hating myself. And my self-worth becomes less and less. It has been a vicious cycle of self-loathing. 😔
Exactly! I'm an INFP and on the one side at my core I'm very independent and proud, but I'm also fawning because I can't stand someone being angry at me and then I don't respect myself for not standing up for myself.
Wow does this hit home. I went ten years into adulthood without seeing a doctor or dentist. Once I did start seeing a doctor, my mother’s comment was always “why are you bothering the doctor?” She had me convinced that I didn’t deserve healthcare.
This is so validating. I feel like I was suffocated and this is telling me it wasn’t right that my oxygen was cut off
I’ve intuitively noticed the fawning response in myself over a decade ago, researched trauma and cptsd 5 years ago - but I STILL UNCONTROLABLY REACT WITH FAWNING in 90% of any human interactions. I became a recluse to stop fawning triggers because mulitple therapies did not lesson my fawning response.
💕 Just practice. You can play out scenarios in your mind or literally talk it out playing both roles by yourself. As we practice something it becomes more natural to do it. Before you speak or react to a situation, take some moments to decide how you should present yourself as you respond. Don’t let yourself immediately and automatically respond with fawning. The waiting before responding takes practice too. We all understand. 💕
Same for me. It's quite disappointing when all our efforts show nearly no change. But we have no choice but keep trying. At least a tiny positive change would cheer me up.
Noticing and understanding is just the first half. You need to delete/replace those compulsions. They EMDR, IFS, and maybe sprinkle some somatic therapies. I've almost stopped fawning because of these.
I'm the same way. I have made a conscious decision to not try meeting new people until I know I have changed because I can't bear to be cast into my same old role in relationships anymore.
You have to put yourself in relationships so you can create new habits. It's like pushups, you can only get better if you do them. Ik it's easier said than done, a safe space to practice might be group therapy so you have a community to go back to
I so appreciate Dr. Sage for honestly sharing her own struggles with social anxiety and business networking and how, instead of trying to force herself into an unnatural (for her) social and business mold, she was compassionate and accepting of herself and utilized her skill of resourcefullness to make her business model fit her natural temperament. Loved that. I felt encouraged by her example. I have struggled with accepting my own social anxiety/avoidance for decades. Thanks, Dr. Sage.
Same!
Here too
I've noticed in many cases, I know people who over apologize when it comes to unnecessary stuff - but they can't give a real apology when it counts and would repair the relationship.
I have such a huge problem with this. I’m a middle aged self employed carpenter. My “helpfulness” is tied to my income, besides it being a coping strategy from being a kid, raised in a narcissistic family system. I can see now that it dramatically reduced the amount of attacks towards me by being highly valued. But I can go into fawning without realizing it and offer to do things for customers as a solution to their situation and realize afterwards, why did I say that, why did I offer that? What the hell just happened? I have worked hard on internalizing that I am allowed to change my mind and I am safe to communicate it with honesty and integrity. That helps as a means of dealing with it but the fact that it still happens has caused a lot of hesitation and distrust in myself making estimates way harder in ways than ever before.
Tell me about it. If I were you, in theory at least, I would do a little extra for people who struggle with money. People who are well off, I' d be pretty firm with fees. Perhaps it would be helpful to always make an estimated cost to the client before you accept the job? The client agrees and there' s clarity what you're doing and what is the cost. One reason I cannot start doing a specific business is because I would not be able to charge people. This is true. I suppose Elvis had the same issue, it just showed up him feeling obliged to give money and expensive presents (a house, a car...) to people. Had I money, that' s what I'd feel obliged to do. I don' t know who I am. Due to my childhood role, I end up listening to people who talk non stop about themselves and enjoy my concentrated listening abilities. They don't care to hear about me. I often wonder, who the °ell am I. I am better off with my most lovable dog. I am pleased to make him happy.
There are so many of us like this...I try to give myself some space before making a decision..."let me run some numbers and I will get back to you," or I'll have to check to see if I'm available then" That gives me time to decide what I really want to do....also, "I see your point, let me give that some thought"...
I wish you the very best and I hope you never get taken advantage of by anyone
@@louisetaylor6952 Thank you for commenting. Despite it being very uncomfortable, I do what you say here. If I’m triggered into doing projective damage control, I do all o can to commit to nothing. But it’s very overwhelming. I’m getting better with repetition and speed of realizing I’m disregulated. I have rescheduled estimates multiple times, seeing that it ok that I claimed some space and the world didn’t end. I’ve said some of the very word tracks you wrote and being genuinely honest with people seems to make them drop their guard a little or maybe at ease with my intentions.
@@sawdustadikt979 are you a man? You seem to be very in touch with yourself and communicate it very well.
@@CH-px1fw yup
I realized a little while ago that I really have no idea who *I* am and what *I* want. My whole life has been about trying to live up to other people's expectations. The thing I enjoyed doing most (art) has been tainted and has become no longer enjoyable because that's ALL that I am to other people: The Artist. "She draws so well!", "maybe you can draw something for their birthday", "why don't you and [niece] do some art projects?". And now that I've hit a major artblock after dropping out of art school (again, because other people wanted me to go, not because I particularly wanted to), it feels like I've lost whatever put-on "identity" that I had. Now I'm just floundering. I don't know what I want to do and don't know what would bring me lasting joy because I never gave myself the chance to find it
Where has the past year led you and what do you think one should do in this situation?
I am 59 and just learning al of this. 100% Me. UGH!!!!
Oh, God! I literally mean that cry to God. Three minutes in and I am awestruck and bawling. I"m working on healing. I can see this SO CLEARLY how and why I've had so many narcs in my life. As long as I wasn't in a relationship, I was functional and highly productive in business and at peace with God, isolated - not letting anyone in. I'm disabled so this was a necessity.. But the isolation, my whole life long periods in between relationships, was also a response to the narcs and relationships that left me so unfulfilled.
And, I'd seem to over-give and couldn't do both work and the relationship. with an emotionally unavailable man. Well, I've been celibate and single for 30 years. I'm traditional. I just figured i couldn't find the right man and was serious about being a Christian. Making my way out of narc friendship now, or Borderline horrible sabotage and utterly wicked, having to get all my belongings back after ghosting. I trusted again. Well, this time, I have discovered SO MUCH help on youtube and internet, like this beautiful Dr. Sage here.
This video cuts so deep in a good way - discovery and crystal clear seeing something I've yet to know. WOW! JUST WOW. I knew my nervous system is wired because of trauma and neglect narc mom, but I've mostly just been collecting videos as I"m hanging by a thread to get safe and settled to heal. I've watched some videos and have started to heal, but mostly i've been preparing. Already, I've come a long way.
You are never too old to heal and give yourself the love first and have richer relationships. Don't look back. And, if you've been hurt by narcs, don't give up on love as I did. You have so much healing available to you, therapy, and doctors on the internet - youtube here - to heal yourself so you WILL have that love and marriage you deserve. I may or may not get it. I know one thing is that I am shaking it off and healing deep. Already I am so much freer. I just haven't had the chance to utilize and systematically put myself through therapy on the internet. Some may need to see a doc. Maybe I will. I am more of a hands on, help myself one. And, these coaching and learning videos are INCREDIBLE.
I am deeply grateful to you, Dr. Sage. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'm in the midst of heavy trauma now through brutal circumstance and I am already so much stronger not just from before I met, but through understanding what' i've learned so far and facing the pain within, defined. That's the key. One has to be able to see and define the hidden pain and how and why we've had such troubled relationships.
I never believed from first discovery what narc was that I attracted them. I knew that there were the others before in my life. It is the WIRING through the childhood trauma. So, we respond unhealthy , destructive to ourselves to these kinds that are wicked and traumatize. Yes, I call them wicked. The weaklings never did introspective work in their lives. They are cowards and cruel. I don't forgive them, nor do i have compassion for them.
I have been doing introspective work since teen, reading self-development, psychology, and facing all the pain in life. They NEVER face it, are not accountable, are intentional in their actions, without remorse, cruel, vindictive, spoiled brats. Many of these narcs and borderlines are this way because they were spoiled brats with trauma from neglect and the patterns, but they NEVER took responsibility, practiced their wickedness, chose this, and exploited and harmed others with INTENTION.
Shame on these b-turds from the pits of hell - including my mother. I'm not bitter, though this is where i conclude. I release them and shake them off. I understand them all to well to know I do not choose to forgive them. My mother i forgive, because that is different. But, the narcs not my mother and borderlines, i do not.
This resonates so deeply, it’s shocking
I appreciate that you mentioned Pete walkers book “complex PTSD:From Surviving to Thriving”. Also, thank you for sharing your vulnerability. 💜🙏
Certainly is an outstanding book!
If I am correct, then fawning is a response to a perceived threat. So, if we are fawning in our relationships, the question becomes, why do we feel threatened in our relationship with others? Could it be something to do with a pyramid shape? We fear authority figures. We are terribly insecure with peers. We prefer to 'date down' but this in unequal and gives no satisfaction. Is the insecurity with peers a mirror image of our relationship with our siblings ?
I've had a traumatic childhood from a narc household. I've seen so many others have a similar childhood and heal WAY later in life ( 40s, 50s, 60s, etc. ), IF they heal at all. I have honestly been more afraid of NOT healing and holding myself back, than I am of putting in the work to heal and be better. I am in my early 20s, and I can fairly say my core mother wound is now a scar. I have an entire life ahead of me to keep healing minor tendencies ( like fawning ) and truly live in the moment. C-PTSD can seriously destroy you if you allow it. It really is up to you to take massive action and heal. Good luck to anyone on this healing journey, it is NOT easy, but it IS worth it!
The reason you see people in their 50s 60s and 70s just now healing is because we didn't have videos like this. There was no family systems therapy. There was no cptsd. There was no one to talk to. You have a wealth of therapists and a wealth of information. We didn't.
Dear God!!! I walk around with a limp. I bite down on a rag rather than go to the dentist. I literally told a boyfriend ,'I don't matter,you do.' I fix, mend, help and order other people and their lives. I attract THE most selfish human beings. One partner said,' If you need help with anything, just imagine I'm not here and then do it yourself.' I eat bad food in restaurants because I don't want to offend the waiter. When I'm not helping or fixing others I lie down (on the floor) and don't do anything.
You deserve to feel better and treat yourself with RESPECT. Dump that person who said that to you, go to the dentist, get into a yoga or dance class, and tell everybody to suck an egg while you get better. Seriously.
No wonder I've been in so many toxic and abusive relationships. This helps me stay away from fawning...and be me!
Me: “so you’re saying my needs are a burden to you and you wish I never realized i had them?”
My narc ex: “YES!”
Self focus is not selfish
It's not about the destination. It's about the journey. Never give in. Never give up hope. Thank you for speaking the truth. Im in the present moment.
Thank you so much for making this video. Would you mind making more videos on fawning? Every point you made describes me to a T. I was horribly bullied as a child during most of my formative years and then I'd come home from school to a violent/neglectful alcoholic father and my mother coped with it by SCREAMING at her children. Her moods were unpredictable and to this day the sound of stomping footsteps is a trigger. Our parents had horrible fights in front of us All. The. Time. If they were screaming at each other though it meant they weren't screaming at us. And for me, being bullied is NOT a little trauma, it is a Big Trauma. There was no adult I could turn to with my feelings, let alone needs I didn't even know I had (I grew up in a small town, the parents of my bullies were all friends with each other and the teachers). I learned very very young that if I appeased my peers and parents they'd lessen up for a little while. I also feel like there's so much shame around this particular trauma response because almost by definition its where you don't stand up for yourself. You're a coward, weak, a push-over... "she just lets people walk all over her so she deserves it." It's SO HARD to talk about because again, people think you deserve it. I feel like I am blamed for my own trauma. Anyway, thank you for the video and I'd love to see more on the fawn response.
I relate to your childhood a lot. My coping mechanism was being class clown to survive at school. At home I hid from my rage-aholic dad. Us kids (and mom) walked on eggshells to keep the peace. At 65 I still avoid conflict until I usually get defensive, then feel shame for how I sometimes react. Bullies disgust me, and I still defiantly stand up to them. It's complicated.
THIS!! 💙🙏🏼 So painful… constant bullying, the heavy footsteps, loud sounds made by human hands, shouting, crying…. Ugh…. Feeling like an utter disappointment and perpetually pleasing to lessen the pain…. 😓
Yes…. Please more info on fawning. 💙🙏🏼
I’m also triggered by stomping footsteps
Wow, you articulated this SO well! I’m so very sorry you’ve had to endure all of this. You were a precious child and that child is still within you and is still precious. You are NOT responsible for all this trauma and you get up and tell yourself that every day.
Your story is very similar to my own. It's hard to even acknowledge, because I honestly never saw my mother as a narcissist (I think more like Borderline Personality), but she was like your mother in many ways; angry, yelling...and then there was the beatings, the hair pulling, slapping, throwing of things, etc. We were terrified of her and then she went back to work when I was 11 and from that moment on, we learned to take care of everything on the farm. Chores began at 6 am, feeding the horses and goats, milking the goats and also cooking cleaning, shopping when I was old enough to drive. I was also horribly bullied at school, but mom was not a safe person to go to, so I was 'sick' a lot and lived in fantasy land. My sister says that I was a hyper-sensitive child and so everyone was careful not to make me cry. *shrug* I realized as an adult that I am HSP, very intuitive, and empathic. (My dad was very intuitive as well) I have known I had c-ptsd for many years now, but I really connected it to trauma in adulthood, because once my mom left and divorced my alcoholic dad when I was 17 (dad was funny, hard-working, life of the party guy) she became a totally different person, very kind, loving and for many years dove deeply into self-help...back in the 80's. However, I grew up to marry a horribly abusive alcoholic, divorced and was with another alcoholic for 8 years who was a lot like my dad, but also a cheater. After we broke up, I've spent the past 6 years on and off working on myself, therapy, self-help and I was horribly obese as well and lost over a120 lbs. over a 15-year period. I still struggle with weight, which I believe is part of my self-sabotage programming, low self-esteem, etc. I eat really healthy...for the most part, workout now, and have connecting weight issues, self-esteem with childhood trauma, relationship trauma and still peeling back the layers. I am currently engaged to someone who is sober and struggling with his own trauma from also being the child of alcoholics, was terribly neglected and then went on to marry a narcissist. He finally divorced over a year ago. We communicate beautifully with each other and support each other's healing journey.
Such a great round up of fawning! This is WHY I'm SO passionate about conscious parenting! I spent most of my life fawning/masking as a late diagnosed Autistic person, and so much of my life has been exactly as you describe... I've done so much healing to be able to stop relying on this coping strategy.
My young daughter is hypervigalant and I believe relying on fawning due to being conditioned by my emotionally immature parents, just as I was, to be the Golden Child and it makes me SICK with worry!
She was taken away from me 8 months ago, due to my perceived 'mental health issues' which was really me part way through healing and having dropped the fawning and reigniting my more true fierce advocating nature, and trying to get her the help she desperately needs... My toxic family threw me under the bus saying I don't believe in boundaries and discipline and that 'shes always been this way'...
That's all it took for services to place her in my parents' care..! No amount of explaining myself and how I'm an SME in intergenerational trauma and attachment theory etc will get services or my parents to acknowledge just how clearly I have a handle on this situation and my daughters true needs...
We are now caught in the family court system and may be for another year or more! It is heartbreaking.
That sounds such a horrendous situation Kimberley, sending hugs to you 🤗
wonder how the court sleeps at night?
@@skippy7208 Many thanks. It certainly is! In the meantime I'm continuing my education in my niche and building an online platform for a mental health coaching business specialising in neurodivergancy and international trauma. I'm a formidable businesswoman and warrior mama so they will have a very hard time discrediting me when we do finally get to court!
@@corneliusprentjie-maker6715 I agree! It's a travesty and a huge problem with a totally inadequate family court system in my country.
Awful!..
hope you get the outcome you deserve.
My family were put through a similar situation 2 yrs ago now.
My daughter had a knock on the door one night from social services from one of her twin sons having a bite mark on him from his twin brother, school had reported it!
Turned my daughters life upside down & mine. I had to sign a contract stating I would not let my twin grandsons side 24/7 which put enormous awkward strain on our family & huge strain on mine with my daughter!
I complained to head office about how social services need to change their approach as the way they approached & invaded, infringed on our family was disgraceful & HUGELY damaging.
This is so validating. I have been listening to CPTSD and HSP-related stuff for a long time now (unfortunately only discovered these things later in life) and I learned a lot and it helped, but I think this is the first time I've ever heard a talk that touched this exact nerve. I knew I was a "chameleon" (before I ever heard the term) long ago and actually thought it was something to be proud of. Now I realize all the pain inside of me that came from pretending that my own self didn't matter at all. I have been so damaged but have experienced so much growth and healing. Unfortunately, I doubt that bouts of depression will ever completely disappear though I am grateful they occur less and less often because I know how to protect myself from triggers more and more. Thank you for this validation.
I just found your videos!! Amazing! I have autism, masked till diagnosis at age 57 last year, loads of trauma etc.. Can never relax and now have 3 autoimmune diseases, one of them temporal arteritis, just been diagnosed. Everything you are saying makes so much sense. I've been actively trying to heal for decades and your work is so valuable. Thank you from the bottom of my heart 🥰❤
I did not know what fawning behavior was until just a little while ago, I am a terrible people pleaser and fawning is a defense mechanism I definitely use. I'm going through some personal growth right now and the fawning behavior now drives me crazy I hate that that's my default tendency it annoys me so much that I do this I am trying so hard to stop!!!
Me to it’s the fking worst thing ever man.
That is what I heard all through my childhood--if you want to cry I'll give you something to cry about.
This was me.
Up until last year.
I'll be 31 this October. It's a VERY hard to pattern to break out of personally as I've experienced childhood trauma.
It landed me in tonnes of trouble and that caused more trauma !
Cause I'd be quiet and not speak up if my friends' came up with stupid ideas back in school and somehow, whenever we ended up in trouble, I'd be blamed even when I had nothing to do with it and I'd willingly take the blame . I wouldn't speak up for fear of being left out in the group. It caused me years of pain and misery.
I can't rewrite the past but I can choose to do better in future.
When you mentioned the workplace environment, schools and teachers came to mine. Most elementary teachers are females who start teaching at a very young age and never do anything else career-wise. There may be a strong correlation between the demise of educational quality and teachers not standing up to bad practices showing up in our schools. They want to keep administration and parents happy. (They are fawning.) Schools have been diverging from the basic responsibility to educate and have started taking on responsibility for fixing society's problems. (Yes, I know "correlation is not causation," but sometimes it might be!) In the eighties, they took on self-esteem and cooperative learning. Teachers were pushed to become nurses, therapists, social workers, policemen, and parents which greatly diluted their ability to address education, the only skill they were trained to use. As immigration increased they took on responsibility for solving all the issues involved in language acquisition, inherent differences in cultures, gangs, etc., without acknowledging the impact on our culture and the political, long-term implications. They became increasingly political as they were forced to address race and sex. They started telling kids what to think instead of giving facts and teaching critical thinking skills. Perhaps they lacked the confidence to stand up and critically assess what was happening to education and say no to doing things not in their job descriptions. One administrator praised teachers at an awards banquet with these words, "Teachers are the most flexible people I know. They take on without complaint any job they are given."
Our society does not respect teachers. Perhaps they don't respect themselves. Always wondered about the saying: "Those who can't, teach." It should have been, "Those who can't say no, should not teach."
Yes I have fibromyalgia and ibs from childhood trauma. Work on healing every day.
I wish there is doctors like Dr Sage in France.
I'm so grateful to hear these thoughts! As you were talking, I was like "Wait, you mean not everyone does this? I thought everyone was like this." Work in progress! Thank you!
I loved what you said about surface conversations. I can't deal with them either, it's so shallow. I'd rather be alone.
I love how honest and relatable you are with your own stories and issues (and the way you speak and express yourself). Especially in this video how you showcase that we don't need to make ourselves be the standard that society seems to expect but can still be functional and useful in our own ways. Thank you for your knowledge and putting yourself and your unique way out (t)here.
100% how my childhood was and what I struggle with still
Same
Caught myself doing the “I’m sorry” thing last night…the quickly following it up with “no , I’m not sorry.” It was like I finally realized there is no need to apologize for being me. These people don’t know me and I owe them nothing. So who cares?
😭😭😭 I need to listen to this every single day
I feel so seen. Esp the apologizing and the shallow talk with so called good friends. Thanks for this Dr. Kim. More self fullness work needed..
For me it feels as if in the short run I can have more mental peace by avoiding being a “burden” as well as by making sure others needs are met before mine, even though I know that in the long run it’s been detrimental to my mental and physical health (and, even for my life plans). 🤷🏻♀️
I hate it, but it feels so hard to stop being this way.😕
I spent the last 20 years trying to undestand why life was so painful. I did so much therapy and tested for nurodivergent behaviors like autism and ocd and also sought if i was a narcasist and other mental illness. Turns out it was all childhood neglect. I cant undescore how difficult it is to navigate adult life when having been neglected as a child.
When you described the problems, I just "yes, yes, and yes". Recognized everything.
One problem with this is that if one gets to see a therapist, one automacitally scans for what they want (what kind of patient, what kind of therapy)....
Love this - i exist, i matter ❤🙏
Thank you! Growth is slow....but it does happen.
I am so like you... Cannot stand surface converstaion. One on one communications really fill my soul.
Kim I have listened to a number of your videos and find them to be very "accessible" and supportive. Also your production - especially the audio - is just excellent. Thank you for doing this work, it helps people who are struggling.
That’s the problem with putting EveryOne 1st
We’ve taught them we come 2nd..😏
Including
OurSelves🤯
& now I’ve recognised this & am desperately trying to set boundaries etc family etc are getting mad.
That’s the thing
The only people mad at you setting boundaries are those who benefited from you have none.
I feel so sorry for MySelf how I neglected MySelf all my life🖤
This is so helpful. Speaking of the extent of helpfulness of therapy- if therapists could recommend videos like this to watch in conjunction with therapy I’ve would have gotten so much more out of it than ( what i see as) superficial and short term help from CBT.
I enjoy being around people a lot, they give me more to think about and laugh and smile about, even if it is usually a fawning response. But when I finally am alone again, I realize how exhausted I am, how much I've forgotten to do or still need done that day, and can finally just watch or play the things I was dying to that morning
WoW Dr Kim when u said ‘ I exist in response to other people’ described me and my life to a T. Such an understandable way of explaining it rather than just putting others before urself. I’m learning to exist as an individual now as most everyone believed a smear campaign and the ill and very malicious intention of it. I appreciate learning from ur knowledge, thank you 🙏🏼. I finally get to remember myself in my own right.
Exvellent. I ve searced exactly this information without finding it, until now. It is a huge void not knowing who I am because I've surrounded myself with people whom I am there for. Even an old school mate needed me to be a furniture to whom this person can talk aboit themselves, non stop. I leave exhausted wondering where do I come into my life. There' s lacking the mirror people about me, balanced give and take.
So interesting, I recognise much of this in me. I know that people used to vomment on my apologizing for everything. I can’t say what needs I have, other than, food, sleep and clothing. I don’t know what a normal family is like, or how it differs from enmeshment.
In my 70s now, and I'm only just beginning to realize I've spent my whole life trying to adjust to other people and to society. I had a 'good' childhood but despite that, my fawning has always been through the roof, with all the characteristics mentioned in this video. But I've come to realize that I can't tolerate the chit-chat trivial BS which society endlessly goes in for and which is mentioned in this video, but which I've always vainly attempted to join in with. So I no longer attempt to totally join in with this, and I focus more on where I'm at and the conversations I need. Detaching myself from the trivial side of society has given me a feeling of inner authenticity and power like nothing else has, and I've had to re-evaluate what my idea of femininity has always been, to understand that it can also include personal power. Thank you for this video.
Wow! I think every point applied to me😵💫 I never knew there was a label (fawning) for it but I know it came from growing up with an alcoholic father and then a first marriage to a narcissistic alcoholic. So much fear and trying to be the perfect child/wife and never succeeding (at least at the second one) I was always labelled the "perfect child" because, in hindsight now, I stifled all my needs and tried to do everything to stay out of trouble. I have always been the caregiver. Wow again, I could go on and on but thanks for this. 🙏💜
65 here. You are describing my childhood
I've for decades wondered about my very stiff and tense body, and only recently (I'm almost 46) understood it to be a trauma response. I'll start looking into this, thank you.
I thought my family was weird and had to hide the truth for others: my grandmothers deep depression, my dad left, my aunt's extreme anger.. I discovered others described my aunt as so funny and cool - I never knew her that way, I only knew I couldn't risk breaking that facade to anyone. So I guess I started to tip-toe...
I think my mother had BPD and NPD characteristics and as a result she never showed interest in anything I did, except when she planned it. She never ever asked me anything about my life, my thoughts. She died 2 years ago. She needed constant reassurance that she was loved but she was bottomless in that regard. Without exaggeration she knew nothing about me. As a result because neither parent were emotionally available and neither knew anything about me, I have trouble talking about myself outside of my partner. I'm a great conversationalist and can draw the other person out and hsve them talk endlessly about themselves and at the end of the night they will know very little if anything at all about me. I probably would have made a great spy 😂 . I'm not sure how to change that. I will have to work on it.
This Fawning thing reminds me of past term people pleasing, though may be incorporate more as we learn more about what makes humans tick.
I am like you, Dr. Sage, about not being able to have real conversations with people. This is extremely difficult today due to political correctness. We are afraid to say anything. Being real isn't easy.
Thank you for not liking networking, staying true to yourself and sharing these videos. ❤
🌱🌏💚 I cycle through responses. Ie: a fawn response triggers a fight response. Then.... sensory overload, meltdowns & burnout. Cptsd & undiagnosed (until recently) ASD. An absolute mental f🤬king nightmare.
Thank you Dr Kim, I appreciate your videos & candour very much. In the process of finding the correct therapy & life support for my specific needs. It's really difficult but I'm determined to not exist in this mental prison any longer.
With so many 'difficult ' personality people we encounter daily, not fawning is not always an option, as it has served us well to spot behaviour in others that are bound to walk all over any boundary regardless.
I think that fawning makes normal people to stay away; they probably think we want something from them or that we are narcissists love bombing but the only people who don't get fooled by fawning are narcissists and that's why we sometimes wonder why we attract so many narcissists and that's because they see us through and in our way to walk, move, talk, etc.
It's so sad being brainwashed to be doormats and that's where our shame dwells in; not being true to ourselves although it's subconscious and there shouldn't be any guilt but awareness.
So we are left with a compromised and confused identity. We have been like an actor, who has become lost in character. Who Am I, before any of my story? This is a profound question for anyone to ask, and it puts you into a state of mindless presence. There seems to be a duality of the thinker and the thought. Who Am I?, before any thought or self-idea arises? Who Am I, prior to my inner narrative? If you can observe thought, if you can Witness thoughts arising to your awareness, this must mean you truly exist in a position prior to thought.
What do thoughts do to the Native Inherent Happiness of Being Itself? Meditation is a matter of coming to rest in the native position, the mindless feeling of Being. The ability of being able to focus attention, to become aware of where your attention is going and how it is making you feel.
It is not a matter of fighting against thought, it is about a relaxed observation of the thought process itself, instead of the usual unconscious fascination and absorption in the content of thinking.
What would happen if I only existed in the prior position of mindless embodiment?
Is this Enlightenment?
Is This Reality? Is This Truth? Is This Happiness?
While we have been psychologically abused and had a sustained identity crises, and been made to suffer greatly, we have also been afforded the opportunity to deeply consider our identity, because it has been so greatly challenged by an unbalanced force, after the result of being raised by a mentally unstable caregiver.
Observed thought,prior thought to araign, governed perception and thought broadcast are each outside of the type of mental activity
that you can classify as thought.Neurosis of that may ignore the thought
one plus one is two,so linking acuity and aptitude to some forms of
criterion eg flight,form,stream,perserveration,verbigeration would
seem rational.
I've become very aware that I have an unhealthy need for validation from other people. Now, I kinda 'short circuit' and go numb when I realize again and again that I worry about doing the next little thing because someone might object/reject.
Kim, I admire your willingness here to again and again express your vulnerability and your strength in a consistent flow of communication. I think you're doing great things here... and I'm grateful.
I relate to the validation need. As soon as someone disagrees..I think to myself There it is, “I’m wrong I’m different what should I have said.?” I can no longer have a debate with anyone about anything either, as soon as they say something about my opinion it triggers the belief that I’m wrong and difficult and My brain shuts down completely. I actually go silent. I’m flustered and have to walk away than I’m told “see you’re mad” You always think your right.. no I just can’t think of something else to say. I can’t defend my opinion once someone tells me you just think your right or deflects the comment with something I did or said in the past. I’ve become an introvert to stop feeling so much pain 😢
Yes yes and yes. At work, socially, family, everything.
When I was young and at school. My school would always find something to distract me and my confidence. I would always seem to say something or do something and I would be in trouble. Basically been in the same room. This was very good upload.
I was a director of a non-profit and then owned my own business, and both of these careers required me to try and network. I wanted it to be easy like it seemed for others, but it just never was, and I always dreaded it and was completely drained and exhausted afterwards. Sometimes I would leave too and feel defective. Until recently I had no idea what my problem was, and I felt so faulty compared to others to whom it seemed to come so easy. Thank you, thank you for sharing!
Ive been working on these issues for a life time. There were times i thought i conquered it. Ha, all i was, was self destructive. I didn't face it, or realize what, or why i was behaving reactive, defensive, and a push over, instead of being a Deliberate Creator.
I too am working on taking hold of the reins in life and deliberately acting from my authentic self. Best of luck to you!!!
Some might think that they don't matter. But for others it's a conclusion that we don't matter for the world.
Easy to fight symptoms. But people fawn for a reason.
Kim your skin and and hair well all of you inside and out is beautiful thank you for dealing with fawning just what i need at this time in my healing journey ❤❤
It's incredible how accurate your description pictures my childhood and present life. I wonder how much pain I could have avoid or still avoid if you could be my therapist or if I would have seen you for years. I have all those issues it's really hard
Oh you make me smile so much, yes I think one of the best things about modern life is no uncomfortable phone calls now!😂 I relate to all of this so much and am slowly learning to let go of being everything to everyone but me to myself ❤
Maybe I’m rare but here’s what happens with me.
I either put someone else’s needs first and completely lose myself or else if they put my needs I lavish in it so much that I neglect the other person.
It’s like it can’t be a give and take. It can’t be reciprocal. It has to be one or the other. Period.
Ironically even when someone is giving me everything I want I STILL lose myself through inmeshment.
This is why at nearly 50 years of age I have never had a relationship past 6 months. I simply fall apart. Totally disfunctional.
It’ll be that way until I die. I’m not even looking for pity. It’s just a fact and I don’t care anymore. It’s simply not worth it.
Life is too short to try and overcome such torture.
Im so far below frozen. This is a living hell. The very last of my delusions are vaporizing. Those were my last defence.
This is such an affirming talk, Kim. I can’t thank you enough. I thought it was just me and I was so ashamed of being like this. Now I can see how I developed this response and I can also see how to begin to come back from it.
This is me…my whole life 😢
Same. Healing.
Great description of the ways fawning manifests itself. But would like to see more about how to heal it. Especially how to find people who can "hear" you, when you finally learn to express yourself.
I'm so happy I found this channel. You're so on point, lucid, real, remarkable, and this information is needed.
Thank you Dr Sage. I couldn’t stop my tears listening you. My father was abusive and alcoholic- I have managed others to manage myself all my life. Today I am dependent for my meals too . I want to rebuild my identity. Thank you for the strength you have imparted through this ❤
I have been watching the past couple of weeks several of your videos and today I would like to say THANK YOU! Your loving and caring way of speaking, your simple way of explaining with hands-on examples and overall just being very authentic, like in this particular video. Because the truth is that we ALL struggle, we all have our fears, insecurities, traumas, challenges, including therapists, doctors, coaches and who else is out there in service to others. And it is beautiful and inspiring to know, that we can be vulnerable and open about our struggles, learn how to cope with it and inspire others with our own story. I could say so much more, however I'll leave it at this. Your videos and messages are caring, loving and compassionate and it is of great support. Thank you
Whoa! There’s a lot to unpack in this video. Fawning consists of so many behaviors than I thought. I recognize myself in many of the examples. Some I have addressed. So many that I haven’t. Recovery is a slow process like you said and it is never one straight line up.
I sometimes feel like I’m playing whack a mole! Thank you Dr Kim! I am saving this video to a playlist so I can listen as many times as I need to ❤
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and own personal story. I know it helps me know that not only am I alone- this is something others have gone through and are also going through. You have taught me so much. Yes I am a Fawn/Freeze- but I am still very thankful for your knowledge and helping me with self-reflection.
Yesterday I had a breakthrough an hour after discussing a difficult colleague with my boss and my boss dismissed it I realised this was my bosses total inability to deal with it and that he should be taking steps to manage the situation.
I just sat here a truly cried for the first time in years because you nailed it, you described me to a tee, where I go from here I'm not sure but to know that someone gets it is amazing
Dr. Sage, your videos hit home for me every time. I grew up as an only child to a non emotional narcissistic mother. My mom passed 2yrs ago, plus my only child as graduated college moved a plane ride away. Now, I'm learning and loving on myself. Thank you for your videos.
"It's just like superficial BS and I hate it." Same!!! You've got to be an infj.
Thank you. I now know what I need to start doing. It's a journey of progress. One day at a time.
I lack the ability to say no when people ask me to stay late or work on my days off. Then resent them for even asking. I also resent people when they can't read my emotions like I can with others. When I want to be left alone because I resent them for sharing their feelings with me when I have shut down and they want to share more. When I shut down and don't talk, that means don't talk to me about your feelings and what you're stressed about.
Thank you for sharing these videos it's so helpful I never understood Why I I am doing things
You really it home for me. I engage in so many of these behaviors...