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393 Windsor Ford Stroker Build Part 2: FloTek Thumper Heads 393W
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2022
- This is a review of the FloTek Thumper head for my 393W build. I go over some of the advantages of this head, torque and horse power curves, and a side by side comparison to an E7TE OEM Ford head.
393 Windsor Build part 1 Introduction and Parts 393W
• 393 Windsor Build part...
393 Windsor Ford Stroker Build Part 3 DIY Camshaft Bearing Installation SBF Homemade Install Tool
• 393 Windsor Ford Strok...
I opened the runners equally on a FT 180 w/1.94.
190cc/69cc and pocket ported the bowls. 58cc chambers with .027 MLS gaskets on stock pistons will get me 10:1! Perfect w/1.75 unequals and DP air gap port matched! Very clean budget build!
I bet that spiced those heads up quite a bit
I've been looking at these for my budget 351w Miata build. Looking forward to seeing how they perform
Me too. but it we be a while before I get it put together and in the car.
Well made videos. You are very logical and very practical. And many of us would like to think we are the same way. Carry-on
thanks will do!!
I used these heads on my 5.8 stroked to 395. It runs strong in a 67 falcon with 3.80 gears, 230/230 .560 lift 106LSA Roller Cam. I ended up changing the inner spring to get the proper seat and open pressure. I also raised the spring height to have enough clearance for the increased lift. I changed the retainers and installed 10 degree locks, just for a piece of mind. Ok, the only thing bad on on one head is that the factory never cut the 4 intake seats, the other head was fine. $400 heads or $2000 heads you have to check everything and also found problems with every brand head. Never run anything right out of the box
Thanks for the real world information. As to the seats not being cut I am sure flotek would have covered that. My experience with their customer service has been first rate.
@@dazecars I had the heads all apart anyways at the shop, my guy recut the seats in 10 minutes, and I lapped the valves with dye making sure they were gonna seal and re-assembled. I am sure flotek would have taken them back.
Makes sense to me
Finally a recent post on these heads. Thanks!!
More to come!
Thanks for the recommendation on the digital dyno. I have a '71 351W block that is bored .030 and have been back and forth on whether a 393 or 408 will be the better option. I've also been deliberating which cam and heads to install in the motor. The ability to plug in specs and view potential power curves and info will be invaluable!
I love mine!! It is by no means perfect BUT paints a close enough picture that you can get an idea of how the engine will perform.
Which site or software are you using for your digital dyno? I can't find something that doesn't require you to do actual data logging and pulls on your car.
@@pimpovic2 Desktop Dyno 2000 It may be hard to find because it is old. Here is a writeup on it www.motortrend.com/how-to/build-test-virtual-engines/
Very good video. Very good information and details. You present and explain very well. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I have this head on my 302 and love them
glad to hear it
Looking forward to this build.
me too, sadly the project goes slowly
These heads will outperform a lot of heads on the market, the nearly 280cfm@.600 lift should be a clear indicator of that. Don’t get them confused with flotek’s original 180cc port casting.
Glad to hear it. I look forward to getting this beast breathing fire.
yeah ive heard the flotek 180s non thumpers flow like a gt40..lol
@@KingJT80 the original 180s are an improvement over the gt40s by a fair bit, but in terms of 4" bore engines of the era, no factory windsor iron is good. for comparison the 180s peak flow is about the same as peak on a stock gm 350 vortec head, where the gt40s are a good 20% or so under both of those and all other windsor casting even worse than the gt40s by a fair bit.
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I’m following along
Let me know if you have any questions
flotek heads are awesome. afr, Edelbrock, Trick Flow, all pay big money for advertising. Anything you read is completely biased unless you do the testing yourself
I too have been very happy with the sets I have run
That notch in exhaust port looks to me to be for velocity. Just like the the velocity vane in Ford Z2 cylinder heads
interesting. Like I said somone smarter than me designed it so I am going to trust it 😂
I appreciate the honesty in terms of what you are trying to build and the reasoning behind the choice.Have you looked at the AFR enforcer heads not Renegade? Just wondering if you did and how they stacked up price vs flow. Haven't heard a lot of people talking about them as a budget friendly head in comparison to Edelbrock or other lower cost heads like the Flotek heads.
I have no personal experience with them but I am sure they are a good head. AFR makes some of the best flowing heads out there and compared to other budget heads their Enforcers are probably one of the best.... It is easy to say "they are only $150 more per head" 😁😁 Small jumps but the next thing you know your $3000 rebuild is a $6000 rebuild. Its a fun slope to slide down 😂😂😂
What is the overall quality of the
Flo Tek heads that You purchased ?
Any information that You can share
will be greatly appreciated , Thank You . 🇺🇲 🇵🇷 🦊 👍
I have 2 standard sets and one thumper set. Castings are good, parts are good and so is the assembly. Not the quality of AFR or Edelbrock but outstanding for the price.
Better then anything Ford racing sells
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Well how did they do , sold all me chevy stuff now messing with fords . Interested in budget frendly heads , they look good but i would like to hear how they did
Still don't know. Life keeps getting in the way. I have two standard sets of Flotek heads that I have been running for years and I am extremely happy with them.
@@dazecars I may just grab a set, or the promaxx project x , really good numbers on those, do you know anyone who's flowed the thumpers?
All I have is the flow numbers provided by flotek on their website. No reason to think they are not accurate
I looked at you cam valve events in your DTD screen you put up and those valve events are not even close to any F4TE cams I have ever seen. The closest to OE that I have ever seen as no one seems to know the actual specs was a stock replacement cam from RMCompetition who worked closely with Ford back in the day with Speed Density EFI's. RMCompetition has a direct replacement cam for the F4TE cam. The specs are 258* /266* advertised @ .006", 207*/ 214* @ .050", .494"/.488" lift. IO 14*, IC 64*, EO 66*, EC 20*, LSA 114*, ICL 115*. I will add I have had several 94-96 F150's with the 351w and they quite pulling around 4000 - 4300. Ya a lot of that is probable the head and intake though. I do think the RMcomp cam does have a little more lift than the f4te cam though.
If you are looking for a High torque lower Rpm engine I would look at a different camshaft. We both know a better head needs less camshaft. But we also know that you need a cam that can get all the flow out of the head with valve lift. That being said you want a cam lift with 10-15% greater lift than your highest flowing valve lift of your heads. I would look at Comps 35-510-8, 35-349-8, or 35-320-8 cams. I would really like to see what your DTD shows these cams power band on your 393w. Here is a good read on a 393w boat engine build as well....
jmacperformance.com/category/450-horsepower-351w-windsor-393-stroker/
I got those specs by dong an internet search. found some good info from a cam specific site and that was the specs for the truck/explorer cams. Like so many internet sources, it may not be accurate but also seamed to match the expected power curves from a stock engine. It is my under standing that it's is similar to the HO just a little les left. I am not shocked at all that your experience with this cam is it quit pulling around 4000. When I put the flow numbers for E7 heads into the dyno Max HP was reached about 3500 and then it began dropping off. I don't take the dyno result as hard fact but rather a generalized picture. More about the curves than the actual numbers. This cam may be a mistake, we will see. I know the heads should be more head than the cam can support. My goal is smooth idle, outstanding drivability, lots of torque to get the old gal moving and a little something up top if I really need it, but with the 5 speed manual most of the time I will be in the 2000-3500 RPM range and I think the truck cam will serve me well. If not I can change it 😁
What hp did this combo make?
Not sure in the real world but with the mild cam I picked the computer was estimating over 450 in torque and just under 400 in HP
Hey man how's did day work after all You get him installed what's a good and bad about them say..?
It’s not together yet. To many projects not enough time.
they should work well with what you're trying to do! I've been interested in checking these out also, keep us informed on the exhaust port gasket matching, what are the exhaust port dimensions by the way?
Will do! I ordered the correct felpro gasket and it looks a lot better.
Thier hammer head is one of the best budget as cast sbf heads, but there never in stock any more, Dart and promaxx, both sell the same Chinese casting now. Dart as the 205 shp and promaxx as the x head.. Pretty sure you tried there maxx series, Personally I'd rather buy the Chinese sourced heads bare. Thumper is a name most of the old ford guys will know from the ported E7's..
@@nothanks81 Thanks for the info I was not familiar with those heads and looked into them. I went to FloTek's web site and compared the flow numbers on the hammer heads and the thumper heads and the difference is negligible at .5" lift. I bet given runner volume and the trend of the flow number as lift decreases the thumper is probably better under 4". Given that the hammer is $200 more per head this is a situation where knowing how you want to build the motor is invaluable. A person could easily spend the $200 more per head thinking they were getting something better never realizing they didn't have enough cam to take advantage. Thanks for the input I learned something new!
I've got a set of the standard Flotek 180's in my garage for my 89 Mustang. We've recently decided to do a 347 instead of the 302, do you think I should run the Thumpers instead? This will be just a weekend street car, so strip or other type of racing.
really depends on your cam. According to the flow numbers on the flotek web site the thumper is better through the full range of lift and if your cam has .500" lift or more I think the thumper heads have the potential to be a big improvement. But if your cam has less lift than that I don't think you will see much improvement for the added expense. I say all this as an educated guess looking at flotek's flow numbers and based on my own experience with their basic heads. I have not gotten my 393w together yet so I do not know how well the heads will actually perform.
@@dazecars Haven't decided on cam yet. The springs on the heads are supposedly good for .550, so was thinking about Summits B303+
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Also got professional ported 289 heads! Thinking bout selling the aluminum heads!
I would like to see a shoot outbetween a set of profesionaly ported stock heads and an as cast set of aluminum heads. I would guess the aluminum ones would function better
@@dazecars yea, but bang for the buck? Got a set of cheap aluminum heads. We ran a set of professionally ported 289 heads, swapped out to a set of RPM's! Made a whopping 1/10th of a second difference! 60' was actually slower!! But, I'm talking a street motor on pump gas now in a shortbed f150. The ported big valve 289 heads will probably win up to 5500rpm?!! The detonation on pump gas is my concern. Thanks for the advice. WTF, run both and see on a 90° day?
@@dazecars we did that! 1/10th. And, we were running a light car! In a 3700lb truck I'm thanking the extra low end torque will be more important. I'll let you know! Retired, bored, have parts!
@@markmccarty9793 bang for buck can be a huge factor. I freshened up a set of E7 heads, had them milled .035" to decrees the combustion chamber size to 58, and then did a basic port job including gasket matching and hump removal. They are a good head and probably gave me 20 more HP between the increased in compression and improved flow (just guessing) But at the $400 I had to put into them (not including the cost of the head as I already had them) I'm half way to a set of flotek heads that will perform better and as you said run cooler so be less prone to detonation. It's a tough choice to make with affordable aluminum heads. Still less expensive to go modified stock but rapidly approaching the point where cheap aluminum ones become the better value. IMHO 😁
@@dazecars I wouldn't put much money in an 8.2" block. Been there, done that. It's a personal decision, but a 9.5 deck block mathematical advantages are obvious. Better rod stroke ratios, more torque at streetable rpms, far more hp potential! The rod bolts are 3/8" vs 5/16". The potential to exceed 400 ci. The head bolts are 1/2". The only downside is that 3" main journal. We turned one 6700-6800 rpm with a roller cam with no problems. Noone believes yourv347 is a 306. But, it's your money.
Ive heard bad things about these heads .. i have heard the valve train is made in china and wont hold up i dont personally know anybody who owns a set of flow tek heads .. and most likely the ppl who said the bad things dont either .. since you own a set whats your take on them ??? Did you order yours bare and then have a machine shop put name brand valves in or did they come complete straight out of the box and all you did is bolt them on ???
I have heard that exact thing for ProComp heads and other cheap eBay heads but not flotek. I have owned a set for over 10 years no issues. For me the thing that convinced me to try them was the fact that speedway motors and summit racing both sell them. Those companies have thousands of customers and don't sell things prone to failure because they don't want to deal with warranty issues. If the heads were bad they would have stopped a long time ago.
@@dazecars thats good .. im glad ive finally found somebody who has owned a set to put the rumors to rest in my mind … im not looking to buy a set but next time im in the market for a set of heads the flo tek heads are definitely gonna be considered .. im tired of porting the ole E7 heads
@@glennramsey917 That is one thing that really frustrates me about the internet. Lots of opinions and "heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy" That is why I try to present the facts as best I have them. 😁
@@dazecars they think anything that comes out of china is junk .. they type this on their china phone sitting in a chair made in china in front of a tv made in china .. lol i know im exaggerating but u get the idea .. btw where are those heads made anyway ?
cast in china but assembled in the US
I go a set of those heads! 2 blocks, one is a 95 roller
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Shit. The last time I shopped for heads you could get an Edelbrock Performer RPM head for $500.
Must have been a long time ago, they are over a grand now.
@@dazecars Yeah. Probably around 2002 or so.
Even with inflation they should have only gone up about $350 instead of more than double!!
Those are the E7TE from a 302. The version on a 351w are much better. Bigger valves, bigger ports. I’m not saying they are awesome but they are better. About 185 cfm intake vs 160 cfm stock. I usually see people compare to the 302 version even when building a stroker 351w. Just an fyi.
You are incorrect those heads came off of a 351w I have three sets of e7 heads one from a 302 and two from a 351. They are identical except the head bolt size. To my knowledge all e7s are the same unless modified. The ONLY modern OEM SBF heads with bigger values are the GT40 and GT40p.
@@dazecars that is actually quite incorrect sir. Sorry to say. I’ll link you some data on them. The 302 heads and the 351w heads are pretty different. I’ve dealt with them a fair amount.yeah I looked them up and the E7TE 302 heads have 1.78/1.45” valves and flow 159 cfm @ 500 lift max. The 351w e7te have 1.84/1.54 and flow 189 at 600 max. Still not great. It’s long been a cheap power up to put the 361 heads on a 302. An easy way to tell is the head bolt holes are larger on the 351.
Anyway, nice video I just wanted to clear that up for people. Good luck and thanks for your video. The day I feel always correct I’ll let you know. Don’t hold your breath.
@@realazliving again I have two sets of heads I personally removed from stock 351w including the set in the video. So you can’t sat 302 or 351 heads. There may be some e7s with bigger valves that I don’t know about BUT if that is the case not all small valve e7s are 302 so you can’t class them by displacement. Thanks for the info on the bigger valve E7s.
@@dazecars ok. That’s fine. But they literally have different size head bolts and they can’t be swapped between the two without special bolts or spacers. Try to put your 351 head bolts into the 302 heads and you’ll see what I mean. They are different. If you find a set with the larger bolt holes and smaller valves that would be the first I ever heard of that. It could be possible I just never heard of it.
@@realazliving I KNOW, and that is what I said in my first reply to you. "I have three sets of e7 heads one from a 302 and two from a 351. They are identical except the head bolt size." I have done a bunch more research because of your insistence of 351 E7s having bigger valves and bigger runners, and E7TE heads were the most common head used on 302s AND 351s, they ALL have the same valve size and same intake runner volume. If they had a different intake runner size they would have a different casting number because the intake runner volume is cast not machined. You can machine a stock head to take bigger valves but the intake volume size is a cast thing from the factory. I realize in earlier years 302 and 351 heads were different (60s and 70s) but by 87 which is what E7 stands for Ford had moved towards one head for most of the engines on the SB W platform. I think you are assuming that a 351 "E7" head is better because of the E7AE head (much less common) which does have a bigger intake volume AND bigger valves but like I surmised in my original reply to you it IS a GT40 head and was used on both 302s and 351s. Ford used all their castings interchangeably from the 80s on between the 302-351 and simply machined the head bolt holes for the application. There was not a 302 head and a different head for the 351. You made the statement "I usually see people compare to the 302 version even when building a stroker 351w" That is because ALL E7TE heads are small valve and most of the 302 and 351 engines of the late 80s through the mod 90s came with them. I am not going to keep debating this. I have not seen the heads you have seen and I don't know everything about every head Ford made but I also know that a lot of people are running E7TE heads on both 351s and 302s because that is what their motor came with and they are all the same except the 351s use a 1/2" head bolt and the 302s use a 7/16" head bolt. I appreciate the input and I am all about getting accurate info out there. I would much rather be proven wrong and have the statements be accurate but in this case I know that E7TE heads have the same valve and runner size regardless of whether they came from the factory on a 302 or 351
Probably better off porting and polishing a set of standard flo tec heads the exhaust ports are smaller so it increases exhaust volosity
yes but then I would not have the larger intake runner volume and the larger valves. This will be a mid to low RPM motor so increased exhaust velocity would be to my benefit.
m is an upside down w.
true
The cost difference between that and an AFR budget head isn’t a lot
That is an excellent point, $300 for a pair is not a ton more but its also not a small amount. When you add $100 here and $200 there it doesn't take long for you build price to go up significantly. Not saying the AFR heads are not a good price/value. Edelbrock also offers budget heads that are not much more than the flotek. I guess it all comes down to what you are building in terms of displacement and RPMS and what your budget is.
on a 393 the afr combustion chamber is good.
on a 302 youd have to have a dome piston to maybe get 10:1 thats where having a stroker is good
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