Dragonhammer vs Linehammer! Warhammer The Old World
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Today let's chat about a game me and Tom had where we had a situation where Dragonhammer met Linehammer in Warhammer The Old World!
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#ageofsigmar #theoldworld #warhammer
A video about the best way to kill a dragon for every faction would be cool
Well so far my kids cat seems to be my dark elf dragons greatest enemy...maybe try one of those
@@cad687 also the classic tactics of kicking your opponent in the stomach and stealing his army transport could help.
I have two armies: Empire and Orcs. And neither can field a Dragon 😭
I was playing as Bretonnia in my first game vs High Elves with a Star Dragon and a Phoenix. The way I handled them was I had the Falcon-Horn of Fredemund on my Level 4, and was able to stop all enemy flying for all but 1 turn of the game. Then I just focused the rest of the army while the dragon and phoenix had to slowly walk across the table and only ever made it into combat once.
yes. that is the most powerful item in the game and it is quite stupid.
@@InfernoSK it can be, or it can be completely useless, especially if the enemy has no flying units :)
i fucking hate the horn. i play tzeentch daemons and basically lose the game at setup. m1 chariots and screamers :(
@@autowaaagh
@@1337Trapperthen don't play against it. Simple
@gerritvandenbosch4681 moronic advice. I don't choose my.opponenets list. Especially not at en event where I won't know who I'm.playing against
Thanks for the content. One suggestion: try to balance your audio volume, it’s is all over the place and it makes it hard to hear sometimes and can be distracting!
I have only played 4 games of old world so far myself. Three of which were against WoC with the chaos lord on a dragon (which is far more oppressive than the HE version). Honestly trying to kill them is probably a waste of time. You can try the mage/monster killer combo but a safer bet is to just kill everything else and use magic to limit their movement or tar pit them with something that won't run (unbreakable units with champions to challenge them out for instance). Overkill in challenges for combat res maxes at 5 btw.
With a dragon having fly (10). I think it would be very difficult to tarpit it a vs an experienced player.
@@ThePaintedHope Exactly. People always seem to forget that these monsters choose where they charge, especially due to flying and being large.
Its not Dragonhammer vs Linehammer thats the problem, its how linehammer is so much better than having rankes. As for character mounted dragons, the problem is three stacking saves, imo, not the monster itself.
The trick is never charge a lone unit into a Linehammer. Multiple charge a Linehammer at all times. And if you need just chaff up that ridiculous long unit and see if you can outmaneuver that unit and keep it out of combat until you’re set up to multiple charge it and then you have more attacks than that Linehammer.
Linehammer seems good now because a 14 man front will beat a 6 man front. But two 6 man units and a chariot can hit the larger unit more easily and then you’re r getting more hits and you will have more Combat Resolution at the end.
But everyone is still just theory crafting and no one knows how well Linehammer will work out in reality. But always use terrain, the board shouldn’t be so open that that long unit can maneuver easily, and set up terrain 12” apart just outside the deployment zone in the center. That will prevent the Linehammer from leaving the deployment zone and they will have to deploy on a flank making maneuvering hard and they won’t get into combat for a few turns.
I have not played a game yet, but I am not worried about “line hammer”. Moving it around will be a nightmare.
Have you played?
Ambush takes care of linehammer pretty well.
@@chewieknievel8439 problem is that 14x1 line is way cheaper then two 6x4 units and chariot... and if you are running two units of 6 ... you are yourself playing linehammer
Dragon shouldn’t have counted as charging on the follow up after you gave ground. Only count as charging during a pursuit move after someone falls back in good order
it's important to remember that this is a sample against a star dragon, one of the best dragons in the game. The sun dragon and moon dragon versions are much less formidable - they are easier to tie up and/or kill, especially if the dragon has a mage on it instead of a prince. most HE players would want a lvl 4 wizard and probably wont have that as well as a dragon with prince rider unless the game is above 2k points.
There is a special build for a Glade lord that is way over the top. Saving that build for tournaments.
theres special builds for all the dragons, the wood elf one is by far the worst however
@obbiem9274 what build do you prefer for the wood elf dragon?
@@NineInchCharge bedazzling helm + befuddlement of mischief makes any ws 4+ or worse unit hit the dragon on 6's, and almost every character in the game on 5's. Still 40 magic points left over for talisman of protection. (can also do annoyance of netling if you think its gunna end up dueling other characters on monstrous creatures of which other dragon chars, wyverns, manticores w.e will hit it on 6's). The problem with the wood elf dragon is its lack of basic saves, high elf and chaos get 2+5++5+++, dark elves get 3+, -1 strength vs it and 4++ ward etc. The wood elf dragon has no access to regen, the same ward as everyone else and struggles to get armour save. Its the only one that will get brought down by poison spam, war machines multi damage and will get worn down faster dragon v dragon because it has the least protection vs stomps which is the biggest source of dragon v dragon damage.
The best way of killing Dragons is likely properly speced characters with challenges. Multiple wounds, high ap, monster slayer. Alternatively just build an absurdly tanky Lord. Since the dragon is stuck fighting your Lord, and has no right to refuse a challenge(nowhere to fall back to) as long as you keep that Lord alive you can pin that Dragon Lord in place forever.
Well that doesn’t quite work, given how the combat resolution works in Old World. If the dragon causes the hero to fall back or give ground and its the dragon’s turn next, it can choose to restrain and then fly off somewhere else in the movement phase.
I admit I have not been able to play a game yet, but I still feel like people blow "linehammer" and "dragonhammer" as problems way to much out of proportion for a game merely month old.
The game design has zero integrity, so it's unfortunately a natural consequence of that
Zero integrity? Those big words with zero facts or evidence to back that up.
@@binnsi2251 24" long facts
@@evanwoodham6296 so you got nothing.
So play a game, lose to the chaos dragon and realise half the armies in the game don't have anything to combat them.
A unit with no armour and wounding T6 on a 4+ isn't tailor made to kill dragons. You're just romanticisng your units special rule.
Their designed for monster infantry.
@@grlmgornah, he is correct. The OP uploaded a video with an 8th edition mindset.
Use illusion magic to give it stupidity, block its movement and line of sight with the 5" vortex, hit back with spectral doppelganger attacks, surround it and run it down when it loses combat resolution. Tarpit it with an ethereal unit (spells can give a unit ethereal) and then win combat res
Large units ignore units blocking LoS, and flying means it doesn't care about blocking its movement. Surrounding doesn't work thanks to challenges, and it wins combat resolution by overkilling a champion.
@kdhlkjhdlk no, specifically not in the case of vortex spells. The FAQ says to assume vortexes are infinitely tall and impact flying units exactly the same as anyone else
The problem with the ethereal tarpit is that the character on dragon probably has a magic weapon.
@@michaelshanaher3253 yes but the dragon doesn't. So only the hero can hit you
@@emcdunna But the opponent simply allows you to cast... how many spells have you mentioned now? 3 spells... and the opponent with the dragon just lets this happen? Just alone that 2 of these 3 spells just have 9" range so that your mage has to get really near to the dragon and its surrounding army.
Played a 1500 point game, and my opponent brought a star dragon with archmage. At that point level, I think I would have had to tool my list specifically against that one model, and that's not an ideal scenario. Safe to say it wasn't really a game.
Tomb kings use necro magic to lower Ld of dragon maybe add catapult to lower it even more then use casket to tear the soul of the dragon to pieces
"Dragon hammer" will definitely be a thing like it was in 5th with shooting and magic taking a backseat and the wounds added profile.
The question is whether the points effectively denied to your opponent is worth the tactical inflexibility of spending 25-33% of an army on a monster unit - especially in scenarios where "kill stuff" isn't the only objective.
But there was no added profile in 5th edition for rider and monster, they were seperate.
How did you fan out to 14? It's my understanding that that you can only ever add or subtract up to 5 models at a time when reforming. I could be misunderstanding but so far that seems to be the biggest hinderernce to linehammer is that in most situations it doesn't actually work, either because it can't move due to terrain or other units or it actually wasn't a legal move to fan out.
Reform, and redress the ranks are not the same. Redress the ranks allows you to add or subtract 5 from the front rank, reform allows you to rearrange ranks and files as required in exchange for sacrificing your entire movement, however as I understand you get to do it for free if you fall back in good order.
Hello
Yes- Linehammer (TM). A term I am delighted to have introduced to general Warhammer usage.
I also did some maths. Do you know how long a line of Chaos Warriors is required to kill the dragon outright? Assuming THEY charges?
380. Only five and a bit battlefields added together.
Linehammer is not as OP as Dragonhammer. The reason it is 'worse' is because powerful dragons feels, fluff wise and historical precedent wise, to be something we can accept. Linehammer looks and feels absurd, and makes a mockery of the ranked up formations which are a quintessential part of Warhammer.
The "Punk-O-Meter" just went off the scale!
Thanks for the insights @DrBlaxill , we've been "math-hammering" dragons as well vs. war machines, spells and units. It is safe to say that they have earned the Terror rule!
I am glad my line (albeit not an overly long one) was smashed into oblivion. Saves me having to buy more rulers! 📏
"Thin Red Line" look it up for historical.
Imagine being proud of coining a term that singles you out as a terrible player. 🤣
@@ZeWrAtH I don't even know what ranks are. If only someone would explain it to me
As high elf player the worst thing is bretonian horn that they can use every turn to pass leadership and forbid enemy to fly. 40 points. That sucks. At the moment if i went to any tournament i would build my prince on tiranoc chariot and archmage on lion chariot with illusion so we can try cast fly on us or prince and ofc the doppelganger. 1 frost phoenix mandatory to support with strike last aura so we can actually cast doppelganger first in most cases. And that is just bretonia dont even know all other stuff that can ruin your day with other armies :D
but that is such a dedicated relic tho what if the opponent has no fly units?
@paxter82 the brets will have to take one for the team. Although as a TK player I would find the horn very annoying too. We have a good dragon and necrosphinx but our carrion chaff/warmachine hunters are only move 2 without fly(x)!
@@michaelshanaher3253 it used to be 1x per game. my chickens also walk 2. now they can do it every turn. it is very annoying especially if playing competitive cause just the option of getting bretonia will drastically change the gameplay. it is just stupid. like if somebody had an item that forbids charge or walk
@InfernoSK I do agree that the item is pretty OP. Probably the best magic item in the game. Knowing you can shut down all fliers is a powerful strategy. But then again, unkillable dragons might be a problem for the game too. Every strong strategy needs a strong counter. And part of the fun in building list is trying to build counters to all the problems but you can't get everything in.
Vault of unmaking bye bye horn.
If you gave ground on the first round the dragon should not have count as charging on the second round. Only falling back in good order count as charging again.
Sorry I meant fell back in good order.
I disagree that wild wood rangers are '"tailor made" to take out a character on a dragon. I've seen this idea several other places, but when you run the math, you quickly realize this thinking was a mistake.
There's a desire to play games at 2000pts, which is the minimum amount to allow an army to have access to some of it's best stuff twice. The trade off to take a dragon is more interesting when you are playing at 1999 pts, and it means you don't get to take a level 4.
I agree that playing against an elven army with a dragon vs without a dragon feels like two different games.
Im not a fan of 1999. I'd just take a lower level Prince on Dragon. He almost as powerful.
Dragon will choose where to attack
11 wounds to your champion, okay but they can do a maximum overkill of 5?
I think the best way to deal with dragonhammer at this point is try to charge it in the flank. with a combat challenge their maximum res is going to be 7. With zero wounds going back but a flank charge (1) banner (2) ranks (4) closed orders (2) you should be winning by two. Hard to pull off but the best I can come up with
I don't think line hammer works, but this is not using it correctly. 14 is not enough frontage. Linehammer is 40 dwarf quarellers with great weapons, allowing them to stand and shoot and then take 14 wounds as you took and still swinging back with 26 great weapon attacks.
Linehammer isnt even that good, its completely impossible to maneuver.
If linehammer is a problem in your game just use more impassable terrain
Thank you. It’s hilarious to watch people complain about this while they think they aren’t outing themselves as terrible players.
If they think number output is the only important thing and manoeuvring isn’t important, they are bad players.
Empire wizard Lord on two headed imperial griffon. Doppelganger spell and mace of helsrom. 2d6 auto hits at str 10 -5ap 1D6 wounds per hit. Griffon is for movement and durability.
But when your opponent dispels the doppelganger, your wizard lord will have serious trouble in close combat due to probably only having a 5+ ward save.
I am right now not sure about the order by the way. So when your ini 4 mage is in close combat with an ini 7 chaos lord for instance, when does your mage do the magic tricks? When he is fighting is written in the rulebook so that would mean after the opponents dragon was striking at you already?
@@richardpagel6959 it's an assailment spell. You can cast it on any combat turn including your opponents. On average it kills a chaos lord on dragon in a single turn.
@@armageddonbound Be he casts them when he is fighting so at his initiative step 4 right? So the chaos lord on dragon can strike before the wizard can cast?
For me it is not that clear in the rules when the mages can cast their spells in close combat. It is written "when they fight" so that is why I think at their ini step.
Also there still is the chance for a dispel as well.
But yes, when the spell comes thru and takes effect every monster or cowboy should be dead yes.
@@richardpagel6959 Sorry, you are correct. You would want to make sure to get the charge. With an imperial griffon. You have 7 wounds at toughness 5 with the mounts heavy armor.
You also have miasmic mirage in illusion, which when cast prevents the enemy targets from charging. And yeah it would be good to kill the enemy mage to help prevent dispells
@@armageddonbound Problem is with the chaos guy, charging him does not help you at all because he will most probably always take the enchanting aura and thus your wizard will have last strike and everything with first strike will lose it.
This cowboyhammer is really annoying. They could have implemented much more restrictions here and there, also on items or chaos gifts.
Item X only when on foot, item Z not on monstrous mounts or whatever.
ToW simply needs to be restricted/comped at tournaments to make this mess playable somehow. Nobody really wants to either play Line- nor Dragonhammer.
It isn't a mess, it's actually pretty good compared to what we had previously (all the monster mounts being plain unplayable)
@@ФедяКрюков-в6ь I do not care about the mess that 8th edition was. It was the reason that 1/3 to 1/2 of all WHF players in my country stopped playing that game, at least on tournaments.
I am more like thinking back to the times of 6th and 7th edition.
And by the way... yeah great, monster mounts became from unplayable to super broken and OP an a lot of cases, at least dragons... only stupid GW can mess up balance so hard but hey, they do not with purpose, they want to sell tons of heroes on mounts because they probably could not do so in the previous game... 😛
So no, it is not pretty good at all.
@@richardpagel6959 the same thing was back in 7th too basically. As for super duper OP, they are not. They cost like 500 pts for a proper lord on a dragon (25% of a 2000 army, mind you), they do exactly what they are paid for
@@richardpagel6959 PS: Personally, I think steam tanks are more OP, than dragons. They are T7, W10 Unbreakable units, who cost like half a price of a dragonlord, they include a cannon and they grind almost anything in melee with their wheels. Take two for an easy win, one steam tank can easily hold a chaos lord on dragon for ages, while the rest of your army is winning the game
@@ФедяКрюков-в6ь Steam tanks grind everything in melee? Lolz... They have way too less attacks to do so.
When being in combat, if it not charged, a steam tank just deals D3+1 stomp attacks, thats it!
So if you manage to bind that thing in close combat you can slowly grind it down maybe while the tank itself almost does no damage anymore.
Unlike a dragon with 4-6 attacks + d6+1 stomps (mostly) + 3-6 attacks or so from the rider, depending on the equipment.
Sorry but it now in ToW is not at all like in 7th... on average less rank bonus and due to the combined profile now in ToW from rider + mount all the saves are combined as well. Back in 7th edition you were able to either ignore the rider or the mount and put your attacks where they did the most damage. This is now over as well.
Haha, I want to see how you get that steam tank into the dragon... lol again... the dragon is WAY faster and can fly. But even if, Dragon + rider mostly have S6/7 so they can grind the steamtank down in 2-4 turns of close combat if this should ever happen. If the dragon rider swings an ogre blade the tank is done in 1-2 turns maybe even already.
Steam tank gets binded with a block of 25 cheap infantry, he kills around 1-3 of them each turn, they probably do nothing, they have 2 ranks + banner maybe even close order so will have a CR of 3-4 while the steamtank always just has a CR of 1-3 and thus will always lose. Yes unbreakable but he will not grind down everything with ease in melee due to having way too less attacks for that.
14? those are rookie numbers
Ward save and regen save should not stack. So stupid that a player sometimes can roll 3 times for an armor save
There are so many ways to deal with "dragons". Play the game. To many people are keyboard warriors.
So. Genuine question. Except getting out of the way, what can you do?
I play wood elves, and except bringing my own dragon I dont see myself doing alot of damage to it.
Plinking down a hail of arrows wont do much. If I by some miracle could land 60 poison arrows on it, I would maybe cause 15 wounds. The dragon would save 10 then ward pr regen 2-3 more. Leaving 2-3 wounds actually caused.
I dont realy have good tar pits to slow it dowb either.
So it seems like dodge-a-dragon is my main bet.
@@Ultr4l0f the position 'I must have the best toys ever, not my opponent, even if I don't want to buy a dragon' is hilarious. WE are the top tier faction right now. Even the autor of the video basically won the game against an army with the second best dragon in all the TOW. What else do you want? You just have to make sure a dragon will kill less points than it costs, dodge it or not.
Wouldn't you have had to roll a double 1 to give ground on the first round of combat? Or did that happen? Just confused how you gave ground after losing combat by 6? (1 vs challenge, 5 for overkill) The modified leadership test would have had to be under the units natural leadership.
Sorry, I fell back in good order must have mis spoke in the video
@@NineInchCharge that makes sense but I did not think they got the benefit of a charge from following up or pursuing.
the dragon must be forgiven
60 venom arrow, a treemen Magenta with rust and a dragon too.
60 poison arrows would
In theory cause 10 wounds from the poison hits (assuming you could fire them all at the dragon).
Add another 5 from regular wounds maybe?
15 wounds caused.
They save about 10 from armour. 5 left. Save 2 via ward. And 1 with regen. So 2 wounds actually caused.
If you have Armour Bane 1 maybe add another wound so 3. And that is if you have the same point cost as the dragon all being able to shoot at it. Ignoreing the rest of the army.
So 3 rounds of continious fire by your entire army.
My god. Sounds so bad.
As for the other two.
How would a treemen handle the dragon. Wont it just get killed?
And ofc you can try to out dragon your opponent.
Cannons and rock throwers.... Seriously people the nerf to seize weapons made them playable instead of OP.
A dragon costs 3-700 points right with lord on-top etc.
That many points in cannon is almost a guaranteed kill
No it is not, with ward and regeneration. Te number of cannons will often be limited, Stone throwers have trouble hitting the dragon.
Why is static combat resolution not one of the solutions? A cheap unit stacked deep with 2 ranks, close order, standard challenging with a unit champion will lose combat by 2 at most which should be enough to just give ground. Roll in to the flanks or rear of the dragon with a unit that has the BSB holding a war banner or better, challenge with the second champion and you're going to auto win the resulting combat even if they max out their kills and you get none. Even if they don't break and you don't have a character who can actually lessen the incoming wounds or do some back, that's half the game the dragon has been held up for a least, all you need is one of the turns for the dragon to roll poorly and you're going to take it down with a huge points return because you're not relying on dice.
The dragon will choose his fight.
Static combat was a solution in the past, i have doubt about it now.
@@sod1237 My copy of the core rules states: "If either participant in a challenge is mounted, their mount (including the crew of a chariot) must direct its attacks against the other participant. If the rival participant is slain before a mount’s attacks are made (because the mount has a lower Initiative, for example), the mount’s attacks may be made against the rival as normal for the purposes of Overkill" I take it that means they can't choose their fight. They cannot refuse the challenge since they are not part of a unit, so they're locked at a combat resolution of 6 no matter what. If you simply have more than 6 static combat resolution they automatically lose.
@@RuleofCarnage Yes, that is true. But the dragon will avoid charging into a tarpit block.
That is the reason, why cannons or tooled up chars on flying mounts are good at killing monsters, while the majority of Trollslayers has never put their axe on a dragon.
@@sod1237 Well the video above indicates a situation where the dragon had no option but to charge the chosen unit, which failed to take it down, and the question is, how can the dragon be taken down. The response is, by the chosen unit having literally five more member and not going into Linehammer formation. If the point of the video is "even when the dragon charged the unit I wanted it to, it won" then I'm just saying, the unit you wanted it to charge was the wrong one. I'm not even suggesting a deep ranked, BSB, additional combat res super tarpit unit. Fifteen guys with a full command is what I'm suggesting, it should be more than possible for every unit that isn't a monster or fast moving to be that. The unit in the video could easily have been that.
@@RuleofCarnage well, the video is testing the "trollslayer" approach. And simply assumes that the dragon will attack this unit.
I would expect the dragon to charge a valuable unit that it can take down (mage bunker?) or to combi charge. The flexibility to determine when and where to fight is the main strength.
Warmachines were a main weakness, which has been reduced by a lot.
Poison arrow gun line should work.
Nah. If you shoot 60 arroqs at it, it will cause 10 poison wounds. Maybe 5 regular.
And they save 10 of those with armour. 2 or 3 more via wards and/or regen. So you plinked down 2-3 wounds.
And that is assuming you could actually fire all 60 dudes
@@Ultr4l0f large target so you will get all those shots in and your math proves that it would take 3 rounds to kill it. Which is perfectly doable
@@grungivaldigurnisson5115 Sure because the rest of the armies is watching while you shot down the dragon...
@@richardpagel6959 it's not like those 60 archers are all you're bringing to the table man. Archers cost 13 points each with the poison upgrade. And poison is the best option against the dragon because of it's high toughness
how can a dwarf army deal with a dragon/monster spam list? Hammerers?
Just shoot it with cannons
Can't do this comparison since the Dragon and the Lord cost a lot more then your unit. What if you get a unit with the same amount of point as the dragon and the lord cost what happens then?
I get that. I don't really think its likely that in a game you'll be able to maximise a "linehammer" formation much above what I did, if I had twice as many models and the dragon charged me I would have done probably 3-4 wounds before I was wiped / fled. There may be better units out there to attack a dragon, but these wildwood rangers are tailor made for fighting monsters and still didn't get a look in.
@@NineInchCharge Yeah was tailor made back in 8th. I remember killing several monstrous infantry with them in 8th. Black orcs with it's plate armor(and T4) should work better as more of them survive hopefully
I use dragons because they are cool, regardless of the meta 🐉
Yep, I bought a Dragon years ago so I'm gonna use my Dragon.
Line hammer is so dumb. If you are seeing lots of lines then you aren’t playing with enough terrain.
I pass on playing with the kind of gamers that break a game themes to min max for a win. If they care more about a win than giving a fun match for their opponent I forfeit and move on to a different player with more aligned gaming goals.
Thank you for this video. What we can hope for is that GW goes in and patches the dragons so they cannot be as defensively sound or lower the amount of wounds they get. Either that or we as a community will have to step in and comp dragons cause they are to strong atm.
Nice information
why are dragons such a problem now? Why didn't people compain about this in 6/7/8th edition?
Multiple changes, less stuff that can kill dragons from afar. Basically, in older editions, the dragon would only kill the champion in the first turn and then lose combat against static combat result, with the possibility to kill the dragon.
The combined profile is increasing the problem. Beforehand, sometimes you could get lucky and wound either the rider or the mount. And the combination of saves, regeneration and ward makes some dragonriders really tough to kill.
Combined stats means you get the wounds from the dragon and ward save and/or regen from the hero.
Also less rank bouns.
@@grlmgor Ok I agree that's busted, should be one or the other.. not best of both
Cannons. And pray Sigmar
Lets just be glad linehammer is not as good.
Line hammer is an easy fix with a core rule FAQ.
dragonhammer is a change to everyfaction
We have fixed some of these "issues" with the local house rules, like what we used in HH and a lot of people used around the world in HH, you can only tank up to your initiative worth of wounds. The other is simply if they are out of reach they can't attack.
All this video does is show what ranks, flanks, and banners win in TOW. Also, items that grant defense on champions. A mob of 30 goblins will hold a dragon for several turns. Ethereal nerfs dragons, High WS curbs them as well. The dragon is very strong but not impossible to deal with. Most games I have watched on UB have dragons die about 66% of the time. That's a 600-700 point dump for most armies as it is the general.
But… but.. muh linehammer!!
Seriously though, this guy gets it.
People who complain about linehammer are bad players
It was lucky of the dragon to kill 11 of your models before you could strike back (meaning before stomps)
Actually would even be impossible unless the prince had some extra attack item, because otherwise its 4 for him and 6 for the dragon
So 10 attacks on 3+ followed by 2+ which should be 5-6 dead wildwood rangers
I suppose you forgot that stomps always strike last?
We didn't forget, I think I was just giving an overview of what happened and Ive missed some details. We really should have recorded it as it happened! But, batreps are coming!
In my opinion dragons are pretty powerfull... but taking a lord on dragon in most cases prevents you from taking a lvl 3 or 4... Sometimes by army restrictions and sometimes just by the points it takes to build the lord on the dragon... and there's spells that lowers stats, prevents flying or charging etc... so you can attempt to control it with magic.
Good combat lords on units can also put a fight, as they will be in a challenge and the unit can apport the static res... As always a full build dragon takes from 600 to 700 or more points, and it have to return those points so every mistake the dragon makes could cost it the game. The elven mage with ilusion and monster slayer swords seems pretty nasty to! A dragon, a lvl 4 mage, and somewhat anti dragon to! I like it!
Tomb kings can get a tomb king on dragon and lvl 4 on dragon too for just under 1000 pts with the most defensive magic armour and items we can get!
@michaelshanaher3253 high elves can, too
@@michaelshanaher3253 play 1999
This just isn't true. No one is having trouble getting the dragon, a lv4 and a decent army into 2000pts.
@@morerobotwarscontent1476 yes you can get a wizard on dragón... but it's not so scary as a fighty lord on dragon, and it's not so easy to fit a figthy char on dragon plus a lvl 4 wizard and have points for a decent army. And as I said at the start... Dragons are really powerfull... I Just think there's some ways to play against it because ... fielding a dragón is commiting a lot of points in it
I really love you guys, but I had to turn the last two videos off because with a serious discussion about things that aren’t that big of a problem is too stressful. People keep acting like it’s the end of the world. We need to be talking about all the fun cool stuff in the game.
I love some dragonhammer, except my dragon is a big red flying bull.
Linehammer sucks, obviously dragonhammer because they're essentially immortal thanks to challenges.
Don't take a challenge
Linehammer means you’re a bad player though. Admitting you think massive fronts with zero manoeuvrability works in practice means you well get danced circles around by better players. 🤣
so far the old world is really lack lustre
I think this game is as dead as a grave in terms of tournaments and will be balanced by the players if they even bother and want to play for fun only.
Well you’ve admitted that you don’t have to kill the dragon to win the game….