Two Rapture Passages Pretribbers Can't Answer // THE RAPTURE & ENDURANCE OF THE SAINTS
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- MARANATHA Global Bible Study //
The Rapture and the Endurance of the Saints Episode 31: Two Rapture Passages Pretribbers Can't Answer
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Up until about 5 years ago, I believed what I was taught all of my life which was pretrib. Then I read Matthew 24. It is so obvious now that they were /are wrong. I wonder how many pretribbers have actually read Matthew. I question a lot about what is being taught. That's why I love watching your teaching videos. Shalom!
They read it. And then get out a hammer to make if fit pre trib by saying it is Israel.
Nowhere in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 does it mention angels gathering anyone. Secondly Paul says in a twinkling of an eye, 1 Corinthians 15:52. You might catch a glimpse of something in a "twinkling of an eye," but most assuredly you won't know what was seen in those 400 milliseconds. And lastly in Revelation 1:7 it says; "all the tribes of earth shall mourn over him." That is hardly, "the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" that we are looking for. Titus 2:13: Shalom...
Mourn:
κόπτω (2875)
Find all occurrences (approximately 8)
to cut, strike, smite
to cut from, cut off
to beat one's breast for grief
I too was a Pre-Tribber. All of my teachers from the late 70's onward were advocates of the Scofield/Larkin doctrines. I 'drank the Kool-Aid' in huge gulps. Honestly, I don't recall the moment when I realized the scriptures that I relied upon for this doctrine didn't really work, that I was reading my eschatology into the scriptures. Discovering my error was actually a relief and, I'd say, that it both causes us to be stronger in the faith and better prepared for our futures.
@@michaelpalmer7954
Yes, it it these tares who use a hammer, twisting the Word of God; there destruction will come swiftly.
I am a watchman on the wall for my Lord Jesus Christ.
@@jamescole3152 or they get out a pair of scissors and cut up cut it into pieces, assigning some pieces to Israel and some to the Church.
I'm so glad you guys are there teaching with such depth and accuracy. I'm Finally back on the right side of this thing.. ya it's sobering for sure but I want the truth more than candy!
Blessings on you kids.. awesome stuff 🙏
Hi. I took have been searching. If you don't mind, I could suggest listening to RC Sproul, Jeff Durbin, the recorded works of Josephus....all good places to find more information on Eschatology.
The evil won with you. The Sacrifice and Offering in the NT is the Church and will be raptured in the Middle 9f the Week. Wake up!!! Or your soul will belongs the Evil.
Be of good courage, and He shall strengthen your heart, all you who hope in the Lord. Psalms 31:24
I used to believe in the pretribulation until I started to really search the scriptures. When I read Matthew 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2:1 where Paul was saying concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, he said let no one deceive you for that day will not come, unless the falling away comes first and the antichrist is revealed. The pre-trib believers miss interpret this scripture and says that the church is the restrainer. I am not sure who is the restainer but it is not the church. Thank you, brother for sharing the truth with us. God Bless!🥰
Pre-tribbers believe they will not see the antichrist. Your Scripture references so clearly establish that as another false belief they hold.
The restrained is the Holy Spirit
@@kayandbradvincent6643 purely conjecture.
The restrainer is the Angel
@@kayandbradvincent6643 That doesn't work. Holy Spirit is GOD. He cannot be removed from anywhere. Also, the persons of the Godhead have roles. Holy Spirit is teacher, guide, the one who calls us to repentance.
If Holy Spirit AND every solitary believer on earth were all suddenly removed, it would not be remotely possible for anyone new to come to faith in the Savior. Therefore, all of those saints who die for not taking the Mark of the Beast come from???????
Agreed. It all fits together perfectly, in a coherent manner with a post trib, pre-wrath interpretation.
Except which Tribulation? Right now we are in the time of the Tribulation of the Saints which will get worse and worse, almost no one will be left. After this current tribulation will be the time of Jacob's trouble, which is also called the Great Tribulation.
It does in a human logic type way...
yes we are not getting pulled up without trials. agree with your position. even just reading about the seals makes sense. opening the seals is not declaring wrath. even when I was a baby Christian I remember reading about the abomination that causes desolation. I thought I might see this in my life. and it stuck with me even though my church thought me to always stay right with God or I will miss the rapture.
For me, I am not even convinced that the opening of all the seals occur within the seven year tribulation. Nothing, nowhere gives a time table. Even if we look at the opening verses in Matt 24 which seems to parallel Rev 6, Jesus says right out, but this is not the end. For all we know the first rider has been seeking control (conquer) for decades or even centuries, or longer. Remember it says set out "conquering and to conquer." To me, this is building a system by which people will agree to fall in line. May view conquer at via war, but Alexander conquered many lands without battles. Just kind of rode in and planted a flag and the people complied.
It baffles me that those who believe the pre-trib theory dismiss the words of our Lord to fit their beliefs.
Believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture is like believing Lot was saved BEFORE the hellfire and brimstone of Sodom and Gomorrah's judgement. Believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture is like believing the Groom is coming for His Bride.
@@archangel_one Revelation 21:9-10
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
Whom do you believe the Bride to be?
@@Joel-dl1mx The Church is the Bride of Christ.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
That's why we called marriage "Holy Matrimony" because it is a shadow, an example of things to come. It's why a bride take's her husband's name.
Rev_22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Edit: Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
@@archangel_one Isaiah 54:5-9
For your Maker is your husband,
the LORD of hosts is his name;
and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.For the LORD has called you like a wife deserted and grieved in spirit, like a wife of youth when she is cast off,says your God.
For a brief moment I deserted you,
but with great compassion I will gather you. In overflowing anger for a moment I hid my face from you,
but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you,” says the LORD, your Redeemer.
“This is like the days of Noah to me:
as I swore that the waters of Noah
should no more go over the earth,
so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you, and will not rebuke you.
Romans 11:25-27
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
The New Jerusalem with all of its’ residents (Jew first then the grafted in Gentile) are the wife of the Lamb. The Church makes up part of her. Rightly referenced, Christ is the head and we are His body (one Spirit, one flesh). To say the Church is the Lamb’s wife, is to deny God’s complete purpose.
@@Joel-dl1mx So how do you interpret this passge:
"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that *it refers to Christ and the church."* (Ephesians 5:31-32)
And this one:
"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. *I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."* (2 Corinthians 11:2)
Christ died when we were yet sinners, not when we were pre, mid or post tribbers.
Now the God of patience and consolation grant us to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus, that we may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.🙏🏼❤
Well, said my friend. While growing up my dad constantly stressed the most important thing in our faith, loving my neighbor as myself. A dynamic and actionable daily love. He always told me that I’d have enough trouble doing that, and to stay out of and forget all the Christian squabbling amongst ourselves.
Amen! I am blessed to have been around wonderful Bible studying Christians all of my life and am very knowledgeable about scripture and believe that we should "study to show ourselves approved". With that being said, it is unbelievable to me that so many are "right", but they all believe something different! People need to quite using scripture to prove how correct they are and how wrong everybody else is. We waste a lot of time and energy "proving our point" while a lost and dying world just needs to see us showing love to each other, so that they will know we are His disciples!
I want to emphasize that I'm not speaking about just this particular video but the hundreds that are all over youtube. Many who get into this fray are wonderful Christian people and mean well, but please just look at the number of videos that are arguing all different aspects of the rapture and tribulation.
Regarding this subject, years ago when I was a new born again believer, I prayed to God one night asking for the answer about post & pre- trib rapture? I was woken up during my sleep after hearing a strong masculine voice that said... "NO BODY GO'S UNTIL THE SEVEN!" Will never forget that voice! Just thought I would share this. Thank you and God Bless...
Lots of people have also had visions and heard a voice that says pre-trib. More pre-trib people on UA-cam have claimed to have visions about it than post.
@@MATTHEW-ic3id Yes, I keep seeing the videos, "God told me the Rapture will be Easter day 2020." "God showed me the Rapture will be on Yom Kippur this year!" (2021) "God told me to get ready! The rapture will happen this week!" (3 weeks ago) and on and on and on and on and on and on...........................
@donsjober
So, did you test the spirit? Apparently, you did not as the bible speaks to a pre-trib rapture. This spirit tickled your ears and has led you astray.
You can return to Him (See Rev 3:18-20). Ask Christ to anoint your eyes such that you see Him again, your first love; then, be zealous and repent of your heresies (ies), your lawlessness against the Word of God. Then, say a new salvation statement to the Lord such that you sup with Him and He with you. Christ will forgive you, as He abundantly pardons. I have completed this step multiple times when I was led off His path. The thing is to repent and then get back on the horse again, as Satan deceives the whole world. But can you get back up and continue the race?
I do not judge nor condemn you or anyone else. I merely declare the truth, while contending for the faith, as it is, not as I want it to be but as Christ teaches/Holy Spirit reveals. One's own words will either justify or condemn them on that day (Matt 12:37). For Christ will not come to judge the wicked, as the words He has spoken will judge them (John 12:47-48).
I warn out of love while contending for the faith to those walking on the broad road.
I am a watchman on the wall for the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@warriophecy8499
You imagine that people are lost or saved based on whether they believe the fever dreams of a sick teenage girl from the 1800's, living in the cradle of new heresies.
Where do you get such an aberrant and abhorrent mindset? Spirit led? No. The Spirit does NOT contradict the Bible.
It is always a dead give-away of a weak position when the FIRST comment you make is an ad hominem attack. If your theory held water, you would state the evidence. Lacking evidence, You decide to over-rule God and damn 99% of the body of Christ who do not hold your pet fantasy.
Shame on you!
@@warriophecy8499 what do you say to your brothers and sisters in the body of Christ who believe tribulation has already begun as they watch others in the body of Christ suffer persecution and death for their witness in Christ?
Thankful, you're frequently covering this. Just watched part of a pre-trib video. He said he doesn't see Christians making it past September. I just sighed. I care enough about others that it sincerely bothers me. I hope they are led to videos like this that state exactly & clearly what scripture says.
Hi. Was that CJ Lovik? He literally named a date for the Lord's return in 2031.
The time of the Rapture and the time around September have always been linked because of the comparison between those feasts, the rapture, and marriage. So that part is no big deal.
But many forget that there is the Tribulation of the Saints, which is a time of great tribulation (which is the time that we are in NOW). But it is not the Great Tribulation itself (which is for Israel). This tribulation will get worse and worse.
During this time, so-called christians will be turning the true Church in, thinking that they are doing God a service or a favor. This will be the time of Great Apostasy, a time of falling away. According to Jesus, there will only be a few remaining.
Presumably, a great many will be tormented and/or executed. Jesus said it will be very few who will be saved, comparing this time period to the time of Noah and Lot. Presumably, this end-time will be the same as Lot's time, not enough Christians (righteous) left to spare them the judgement. The Holy Spirit will be removed, and therefore the Church with it, and only "Lot" will be saved.
Us pretribbers do have an answer to this and you know what it is. It's that Matthew 24:29-31 is the Second Coming. What I'd love to hear you address is why we're told that we're not appointed to suffer God's wrath if we're saved? Every believer has tribulation in this life. I've had a severe chronic pain disorder for thirty years that has made me bedridden for the past decade, but there's a difference between going through tribulation and going through THE tribulation which is the wrath of God on an unbelieving world.
This preacher is obviously faith and works Gospel? Salvation is not works!Trying to earn there salvation by enduring to the end to be saved! and doing the commandments to be save or stay saved! That's how they try to prove no pre-trib!
Galatians 2:15-21
[15]We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
[16]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17]But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[18]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[20]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
@@carriebasso5075 Amen
Post trib agrees we aren’t appointed to wrath. The difference is when we believe the wrath starts. Pre-trib thinks wrath is the full 7 years. Post trib thinks it’s just the very end of the 7 years on the day of the Lord.
God's wrath are the 7 bowls which are the 7th and last Trumpet. Right when Paul tells us the rapture will be.
Confirmed with being after the resurrection which is spelled out in Rev 20:4-5 to include those who died for not worshipping the beast or taking his mark. THAT is called the FIST resurrection. So no rapture can possibly take place before THAT one. Ergo, Ota impossible for the rapture to occur before the tr8bulation or the beast is revealed and the saints are beheaded for not worshipping the beast.
@@cryptojihadi265 Interesting. I always appreciate hearing people's post trib arguments so that I can understand why you believe what you do. Thanks.
Pretrib claim the elect are Israel because they are dispensationalists, and separate Israel and the church, but Christ came to put both jew and gentile in one body. Pretrib separate the body and keep the middle wall of partition up.
There is a huge difference between ethnic Israel and spiritual Israel. You can be one but not the other.
Revelation 7 shows them being separate. Read it.
There are those of us who don't
@@seanc2788 True, but a spiritual Jew who doesn't believe the Messiah has come yet, still doesn't qualify. I once thought that there were three types of people described in Revelation: Christian Saints, traditional Jews, and non-believers. I'm not there now. The description of the two witnesses changed my view. They were described as "two olive trees and two lamp stands". To me that has to mean each are both Jewish and Christian. Most of Revelation is judgment and not wrath. There will be significant time for all people, non-Christian Jew and non-believing gentiles, to come to Christ before the last day. In the end though, there are only sheep and goats, believers in Christ and non believers. Once I settled my own mental arguments on these (and other similar topics), it became pretty clear to me that there are not three kinds of people, but only two.
@@dougenosh6772 Okay technically you can be a Jew who believes in Messiah, and therefore ethnic and spiritual Israel. But I still don't even like that definition, because a Messianic Jew is still an ethnic Jew. A Gentile who comes to Christ is a spiritual Jew. They are the one grafted in to the Tree. Jesus is the root, the Jews are the trunk and the Gentiles are the branches. At least that is how I see it.
Revelation 21- Those who survive the Tribulation will enter the Millennium as mortals. The nations spoken of in verse 24 are the mortals that survived the Millennium. On the new earth there will be 3 groups of people:
1) A group of righteous people from various nations who possess mortal bodies just like Adam and Eve before the fall.
2) The nation of Israel who also possess mortal bodies like Adam and Eve.
3) The church who possess glorified bodies.
The church is the only group that will live in the New Jerusalem. The nations are not part of the church or the Bride of Christ because the implication is they live outside the city. The angel clearly states that the bride of Christ inhabits the city.
The two witnesses are most likely Moses and Elijah. Moses represents the law. Elijah represents the prophets.
The ministry of these two is to bear witness that the law and the prophets proclaim the Lordship of Jesus as the Messiah. These two witnesses will be in the city of Jerusalem (old not new) at the Temple, prophesying to the Jews about Jesus Christ. They play a pivotal role in Israel being converted as a nation. The minister during the first half of the Tribulation. As the Temple is being constructed they reveal the spiritual significance of everything the priest does and how it points to Jesus as the Messiah.
The sheep and the goats are representative of the mortals during the Tribulation. Those countries and people who help Israel will be considered sheep and the rest will be the goats.
A very good comparison of 2 verses. Well done!
Except which tribulation? The Tribulation of the Saints, which is now, or the Great Tribulation which Jeremiah calls the time of Jacob's Trouble?
The fact that pre-trib thought did not surface until 1830 was proof to me that it doesn't square with scripture. That was my turning point. I've listened to all of FAI's videos on the study of scripture and am a peace with my decision. The rapture comes at the end of the great tribulation so therefore, we must prepare to be ready to endure what's coming ahead if the LORD allows some of us remain alive at His coming. Thanks Joel.
Rubbish, how long have you been a Christian? a month? Iraneus knew John, he wrote about the Rapture. as well as many others. there are books that have been written about the rapture. Try reading. Not everyone is an american. Life did not start in 1776.
Unfortunately you won't make it. 99% of the population dies during the Tribulation. Read Revelation and do the math.
Catechism #675 and 677 state that, before the second coming of Christ, the Church MUST follow Her Lord to Calvary, Death, and Resurrection for purification and renewal of the Church and world. The fulfillment of this Dogma is here, as we are now living through the prophesied events in 2 Thes 2:1-12 and the mystery of the iniquity (2 Thes 2:7) -- that's why we have had two popes (one True -- Benedict XVI; and the other false, as seen in the vision of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich) and great apostasy (2 Thes 2:3) in the Church. With the passing of Benedict XVI, the restrainer, Katechon, has been removed and, therefore, the antichrist will soon appear in public (2 Thes 2:7-8), who will be the head of the 1 world religion, followed by schism after the denial of real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist by a false pope, banning of the daily Sacrifice of the Mass (Daniel 12:11), abomination of desolation (Matt 24:15), and fiercest persecutions of the Church (Rev 12:17, 13:10) for 3.5 years (Daniel 12:11-12, Rev 12:14). But God will protect His Church as promised in Matt 16:18, "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against Her" and His faithful remnant (Ps 91). All prophecies of the end times will be fulfilled as written in our generation.
@@hyeminkwun9523 catholic or protestant? NEITHER. All religions are satanic at the core. We only need a bible and Christ. Not some CLUB. The pope is an irrelevance. and Mega pastors in protestant clubs, also are just commentators. We all are PRIEST=KINGS. Christ is KING of Kings. So you are bringing into the equation a load of guff. You are saved by CHRIST. not by the POPE. Or Billy Graham. you do not need unnecessary middlemen. all you need is God and his word. The rapture occurs so God can wake up all of humanity. we are saved. we are banked. we are KINGS. ELDERS. and the rest of humanity can avoid hell. If they surrender to Christ. three harvests are determined. BARLEY-WHEAT-GRAPE. If you love CHRIST, today, you are BARLEY. the barley falls off the stalk, by a brief waving. The wheat is crushed. God is not Crushing his beloved. We accept Christ today without chastisement. We are not forced - the tribulation is God's Crushing weight on the planet to force out a crop. The wheat is thrashed. Crushed.
@hyeminkwun9523 that story makes the entirety of Bible prophecy center around the catholic Eucharist….surely you see the massive error in that thought process. You’re applying loads of outside influence to Scripture….either the Word of God is holy, unchangeable, and completely sufficient OR we find ourselves getting swallowed up in fables and deception - there is no middle ground here.
Couldn't be any clearer. Thank you, Joel! Excellent study. The charts help to see it even clearer!
Great teaching! Right on target!💯🎯
That’s right. The scripture are so clear if read without assumption presumption and bias (pre trib)
Ive known pre trib wasnt true since i was like 9 or 10, i read revelation and didnt see anywhere where it was like the left behind movies 😂 im like uhhh this big vanishing isnt here lol
Thanks Joel, great study
So many will fall. They will say “this can’t be the mark of the beast , because the rapture hasn’t happened “. Many will fall away
Maybe. Let's hope not.
This is my same argument regarding Daniel’s 70th Week. If people are being taught that the 70th Week *has not* occurred, along with the theory that the temple will be rebuilt and the antichrist will arise in the Middle East, then many could fall because they will believe 100% what they have been taught.
@@michaelseay9783 I just know there is no pre trib rapture!!! Jesus only comes back one time. When He removes His Church? There will be no way to get saved because the Holy Spirit, which is part of the church will no longer be Available.
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with the rapture.
@@normmcinnis4102 the rapture is a man made teaching by a guy named Darby, pushed by a guy memes scofeild in which the Moody institute pushed in order to make money. How do people not know this. The “rapture” not only has nothing to do with the mark! It also has nothing to do with the Bible. My God how do people believe this stuff.?
I really enjoy these comparisons and how you lay them out. Good stuff!
This is so good, thank you.
Yes, ex-pre-trib. here! Seems so clear!
Excellent information and teaching. Thank you! I love the side-by-side comparisons.
Excellent that he condemn you for the Great Tribulation??? Ok, luck.
I think we will go through some of the tribulationbut not the wrath.
Of course. The tribulation is not the wrath of God.
@@jamescole3152 Well, most of the 7 year period is judgment, not wrath. Maybe tribulation isn't the best word to use there. Peter said we would all endure "fiery tribulation". Its sort of an all encompassing word to me. In reality, the Great Tribulation refers to only the last 3.5 years. The idea of a 7 year period is only packaged that way because the first 3.5 years marks what follows. As far as I have studied, the only defined events in the first 3.5 years is that the Jews will resume animal sacrifices. Beyond that, I have not found any biblical proof placing any other events within that period. And here is some thoughts for you, while Israel is performing the animal sacrificed in the first 3.5 years, they are at peace. What I have never satisfied in my own mind is how can there be total chaos all over the planet as we mentally depict, if Israel is at peace?
It points out to me, that events told in Rev 6, for one, are mot likely within the seven year period, but rather over a larger time frame of maybe decades or even centuries.
What’s the purpose of sealing the 144,000 in Revelation if the entire body of believers who are sealed with the Ruach are still here preaching and teaching the gospel. Also, why would God give instructions in Rev not to hurt certain things but for the apple of his eye there are no instructions period plus there’s no mention of the church from Rev 4 -19 approx. etc etc
Revelation defines who the 144,000 are. They are the representatives of the 12 tribes of Israel who are without blemish. As far as no mention of the church question, why would there be? Besides, as Paul addressed the churches in various letters, Saints was the word he use, which is the same word that John used in Revelation. Should we assume that Paul was not addressing the "church" when he wrote to the Saints? Note that the word "church" in Greek is eklesia meaning "assembly". Also note that the word in Hebrew is "qahal", which also means assembly. Moses used this word in (I think, if I remember right) Deuteronomy. Was Moses writing to the church? Revelation is not written to an assembly or gathering. It is written to all people to express the revelation of Christ.
We can just expect him at any moment but also be prepared for whatever comes.. doesn’t really matter to me. I see all the sides have their followers and that’s because we don’t all see them the same way.. regardless of “the correct interpretation “ is less important to me than being salt and light even to the bitter end. I’m willing to live for the Lord today or die for him Today.. I don’t need to be right .. I just need to be ready and in the mean time to be found doing his will and sharing the Gospel
Here's a questions that utterly destroys a pre-trib rapture:
If, as pre-trib advocates believe, Jesus is coming before the beginning of Daniel's 70th week, why does Jesus warn about false sightings of himself...7 years later, in Matthew 24?
Very good!
he is talking to jews in judeah who obviously did not get saved by the gospel but got left behind for Jacobs trouble the last 7 years of daniels prophecy . and they have to hold the faith of Jesus and keep the commandments. faith plus works. unlike now which is faith plus nothing
what to do if you miss the rapture ua-cam.com/video/o_pYr2-U3hk/v-deo.htmlsi=kgu3nZ3Ru4zHFbpd
Excellent point.
Because you will think you can go up after the rapture. But you can't. They are setting a trap for you
@@snackpup The trap is Dispensational balderdash that persuades Christians of the idea that the gospels and all letters except Paul's are written to Jews rather than Christians.
What other religion would claim that the teaching of the founder (who is actually God) is trumped by that of a follower?
That argument is ridiculous.
The Lord Jesus personally teaches, when He comes again. He teaches nothing of a secret coming. A secret coming is taught by those who usurp the teachings of Christ. Any doctrine that is taught today by ANYONE that is not founded in the teachings of Christ, is a false teaching. If the Lord Jesus teaches He comes immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, THEN, that should be sufficient for us.
And you pretend yo stay alive and without Mark of the Beast til HE comes??? Wowwww, like every Post but the Truth will be another. Meat for the Antichrist.
Very well done! While I don’t believe in a "7 year tribulation" in the first place, I'm "post-trib" in a manner of speaking and I'm definitely going to use some of these charts myself. I'll give proper attribution of course.
(Just fyi, like most of the Protestant Reformers, I believe all of Daniel's 70 Weeks Prophecy in Daniel 9 was fulfilled in Jesus' time, and closed w the stoning of Stephen. Hence, there is no remaining "week," or 7 years, from that prophecy yet to be fulfilled.)
Are you amillenial?
@@handles617 No. Historicist & premillenial (as opposed to preterist or futurist).
The seven weeks ended in 70ish AD
@@chironow3446 We'll have to agree to disagree. Agreeably, I hope. 😊
Agreed! there is no 7 year tribulation, it's only 3 1/2 years. On the Daniel's week, I think Jesus completed the 7 week, but only the half as it says (when He died) and the other half (3 1/2) maybe belongs to THE GREAT TRIBULATION wich is the other 3 1/2 half
I love you 😍 💗 yes finally!😮
Another matching phrase that's not apparent in this graph is Jesus coming on the clouds of the SKY (Matt. 24) and the Lord descending from HEAVEN (1 Thess. 4). In the original Greek of these verses those two words are translated from the same Greek word. I believe the KJV uses "heaven" for both.
That's correct. The dimension of heaven is just above the earths inner atmosphere. When Jesus opens the portal between the two dimensions and calls us home to be with him, we pass by this earth's heaven and into the real one. That is why Jesus doesn't come "half way back" to the planet. He just calls us from the air, but the dimension of heaven is just outside of our visible sight. Once he opens it, we will know.
Brother Joel,
I have some homework for you, a bonus on this teaching if you will. Compare these two passages to Zechariah 9:14-16
Notably, the description of the arrow going forth as lightning, the Lord being seen over them, the Lord God blowing the trumpet (like Jesus said He would send forth His angels with the sound of a trumpet/the trump of God), and then His people being lifted up above the land like an ensign, like stones in a crown, put on display.
Also notably Jesus goes south, which plays into your own idea of Him going to Mt Sinai.
I believe both Jesus, and Paul were referring to this, and that Paul was referring to this as the Last Trump rather than the 7th trumpet in Revelation. Similar reasoning to you disputing the idea that Paul got 1 Thessalonians 4 purely from new revelation, what's the more reasonable interpretation.. that Paul was referring to Zechariah.. or that Paul was referring to a book that would not be written for decades after his death by means of new direct revelation? The 7th trumpet in revelation is not blown by Jesus, it is blown by an angel. This passage being referred to by Jesus, attributing Himself as the Lord God who blows the trumpet, is also a profound statement, of Jesus declaring Himself to be the Lord God Almighty outside of the Gospel of John. A lot of times Muslims will dispute that Jesus ever claimed to be God, thinking it as an invention of Paul's, and then saying John was a heretic because his gospel most clearly has Jesus identify Himself as God as well. But if statements like this are in all the gospels.. well, it's unavoidable, Jesus claimed to be God and the Muslims don't have anything to stand on.
If you read 2 Thessalonians 2 1-12 you can say for sure Jesus will not return pre-trib. God's word says Do not be decieved. He is not coming back until after the falling away, the antichrist is revealed and calls himself god. We all just need to be ready to meet our Saviour at any time. Our lives can end today! What will the timing of Jesus return matter in the scope of eternity.
Pre-tribbers just can't seem to read that passage in the plain language.
@@mikenunya4491so true
Pre mid and post are all true. That resolves the paradoxes.
We are not appointed to wrath. Read Revelation 3:10. Also "Thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." I believe the rapture discussion was divulged as said in Daniel. Our knowledge has increased.
We are not appointed to God's wrath but we have been persecuted, tortured and killed from day one. Post or mid trib do not believe in being appointed to *God's* wrath, the wrath of the antichrist, yes, as we always have been.
@@katebee945 I don't see that the antichrist will send wrath and judgement anywhere in the Bible. These are judgments God sends (thus wrath). We are not appointed to that. Just like the lambs blood painted on the door we are also protected. The rapture truly then makes sense. Also, the restraint needs to be lifted so that the antichrist can come to the forefront. As a corporate body we are a part of the restraining power. Christians hold a great deal of strength only because Christ has strengthened us through our faith and prayer. We also need to pray for Israel.
I completely agree, but refuse to argue which wastes time; discussion does, however, have some value in that"pre-tribbers" may feel they've been deceived if/ when the final 7 years obviously begin and were still here.
Take note of the parable of the wheat and the tares (darnel) Tares are gathered first.Matthew Ch. 13.
Take note when you read it, that it's not speaking of the church.
Throughout church history, the ‘rapture passages’ have been consistently and rightly applied to the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ✔️
Mat24 ..from vers29 to 44, theLord is describing His2ndComing...but people, amazingly and with no logic take verses like "no one knows the day or the hour" .." one will be taken and the other left" ..."the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" ....they take these verses from within His2ndComing and construct a fantasy7yPriorComing. It's like saying: ..NewYear's day is different from the 1st ofJanuary and it is coming befor Christmas*)) LordJesus helpUsAll.
Brothers and Sisters, I would like to share this with you...
Concerning the "Thief in the Night"...
Much of "Christianity" is in darkness concerning the Feasts of YeHoVaH...
They degradate them as "Jewish" Feasts and have replaced them with festivals of men...
But those who know the Feasts of YeHoVaH will tell you that "Not knowing the Day or the Hour" is a Hebrew Idiom...
The Feasts of YeHoVaH are the ones in the Bible that Yeshua and ALL the Apostles celebrated even AFTER the Ascension of Yeshua...
The Day of Trumpets is the ONLY Feast determined by the "New Moon"...
Only the Father knows when the "New Moon" will appear in the sky...
Therefore, no one knows the "Day or the Hour" when this Feast is to begin...
The Apostle Paul was speaking to his "Brothers" who were also knowledgeable about the Feasts of YeHoVaH when he stated this:
1 Thessalonians 5:1through 4 - 1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, WE DON OT NEED TO WRITE TO YOU. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 👉4BUT YOU BROTHERS, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS SO THAT THIS DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU LIKE A THIEF. 👈
Yeshua the Messiah fulfilled ALL of the Spring Feasts on His first coming...
He will fulfill ALL of the Fall Feasts on His return...
We will know the season when the "Abomination of Desolation" is set up...
Please read through the Book of Revelation for referencing of TRUMPETS being blown upon the return of Yeshua...
Just some food for thought...
The "last trumpet" in 1.Kor15 is referring to Rosh HaShanah aka Yom HaKeseh too.
there are true Christians who's names are written in the book of life who will escape the tribulation...it's called dying
how do you explain surviving the tribulation for 7 years? the elect in the first passage are the elect out of the tribulation, the 144000?
I absolutely love all your teachings, if I may please ask that maybe do the announcements either before or after the teaching, the interruption mid study is so distracting.
Also if the "Church" is raptured at the last Trump then how could it be before the Trumpet rapture of Matthew 24:31 surely there can't be 2 different last Trump's
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Which trumpet is the last trumpet here?
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
What about Matt 24 vs 37 -44 doesn't sound like we are in tribulation
It is my understanding that the Thessalonians to whom Paul was speaking to where arguing amongst one another over whether or not those who died before them were saved or not. Rumors were apparently being spread that the resurrection applied only to those alive at Christ's return. Paul was seeking to disabuse the Thessalonians of their angst over this false information that seemed to have infected the church.
The Thessalonians were afraid they had missed the rapture. Most scriptures point to the Lords second coming. The rapture has always been imminent
And I think if there's was a seven year space of time as pretribbers declare then where's The scripture saying that I think that would be a fact scripture would make a mention of
They get the 7 years from Daniel’s 70th Week by saying the 70th Week (7 years) is still in the future. But what if the 70th Week has already been fulfilled?
Another nail in the decaying Pretrib coffin!
See my statement above.
I wish we could share information, we are right in the same page. J.M.M.
Yes, it's so clear! Your excellent presentation reminds me of a video I made 12 years ago about the same thing: ua-cam.com/video/8OHKa2KWaKU/v-deo.html
What the two viewpoints have in common; they both say that it's perfectly clear. Obviousky it's not, or there wouldn't be two different viewpoints.
Exactly! 😂 I have friends in both camps and they both love and fear God and get people saved. As Christians, I think we should focus on the more important stuff like building his kingdom within our callings and getting people saved.
@@jarrettjb Amen💖
Jesus, Peter and Paul all warns us about the deception surrounding His return... Matt 24:4, 2 Peter 3:10-18, 2 Thess 2:1-3. The difference between the resurrection of the dead and the unbiblical term rapture and the concept that it presents, is that Scripture is clear about the resurrection of the dead. No Scripture offers a rapture prior to tribulation... rather that is an ideal of man, and then Scripture is searched to "allude to", "suggest", etc. that the idea of man has a foundation. The view cannot even be presented without conjured terms like "rapture", "second coming", "tribulation saints", "age of grace", "church age"", etc... without these terms, they cannot even offer their view. Every argument for a rapture is birthed out of deceit.
@jarrettjb surely, Jesus's words carry more authority whatever you think Paul is saying.
That should be clear
that's because most Christians are totally deceived.
Satan has used the churchto convince Christians they don't even have to keep the Commandments of God and somehow they will be saved.
I think instead of focusing on Matthew 24 we need to look at the wording in Mark's olivet discourse which breaks up the gathering of the elect into all those on earth (the living) and those in heaven, ( the dead). We can clearly see a resurrection and rapture here in Mark's account which then also matches up with Ephesians 1:10. We should conclude all these, including 1st Thessalonians 4 as well, are all speaking about the same thing. And Mark's chapter 13 account is what verifies this.
Hebrews 11:39-40 also shows there is no breaking up of the resurrection of old testament saints and new testament. We have a long list of old testament saints in chapter 11 and we are told that all of them have not received the promise yet, that God has something better prepared for us, that they (old testament saints) should not be made perfect apart from us (new testament saints.)
The OT Saints were made perfect through the death of Christ and resurrected as first fruits with Christ (Mat 27:52; 1.Cor 15:20+23; Heb 12:23). We are also made perfect at the cross and the resurrection of the NT Saints is the First Resurrection (Rev 20:4-6). There is no scripture that points to a resurrection together with the NT Saints, Paul says there is an order in the resurrections, every group at their time. First the first fruits, afterwards the NT Saints and than the rest at the end of the Millennium. 3 resurrections with the change to immortality, not more and not less.
@benny-yj7pq
Well, unless I'm misunderstanding Hebrews 11:39-40, then I don't think that's the case.
The dead raised in Matthew 27:52 seems to be a temporary resurrection, perhaps the cleaning out of Abraham's bosom (Luke 16) and a transfer to heaven since we know dead souls are under the altar in heaven in Revelation 6:9-11). But none of these have been made perfect yet. Even Job in chapter 14, says he will not be made perfect until the heavens are no more, and then he asks God to conceal him until His wrath is past. That could only be a reference to Matthew 24:29 or Revelation 6:12-14, and also Isaiah 26:19-21. "Close your doors behind you, and hide as for a little moment, until the indignation is past." Kept hidden in His tabernacle. Psalm 27:5, Psalm 31:20, Matthew 25:10.
@@seasquawker The resurrected with Christ were seen in Jerusalem by many. Dead souls you cannot see.
Job does not say, he will not be made perfect, until the Heavens are no more. Job 14:12 is about His 2.coming with the resurrection of the NT Saints and the Rapture. Paul gives us exact details about 3 resurrections with a change to immortality. WE have to follow Paul's teaching in the right order, and not read our view into OT scripture.
Every Rapture view is Prewrath. We are not appointed to orge wrath. And orge wrath comes only at His 2.coming, first mentioned in Rev 6:16+17, after the Tribulation, the same as in Mat 24:29 and Rev 6:12-14, as you said right.
Isa 26:19 the dead come out of the dust (earth) and includes Isaiah himself. That is the resurrection of the OT Saints,
So then how do you deal with Hebrews 11:39-40 then?
It says that "all of these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us."
We've got a lot of old testament saints here in Hebrews 11 and it says that they have not yet received the promise of being made perfect. This is the "change" that is talked about by Job in 14:14-15 and I think that Paul also describes it in 1st Corinthians 15:51-53. We have the dead raised first followed by the living being raptured and both receiving their change. Psalm 50:4-5 also describes this gathering of all in heaven and those on earth. Psalm 7:7 says the congregation will encompass Him. I think this is also what is described in Ephesians 1:10.
All need to prepare for when Satan & his angels are cast out of heaven to earth...they are coming to deceive, fallen Angels setting Christians up to worship Satan. Satan being beautiful and a supernatural entity will appear as God/Christ and doing miracles, deceiving many he is Christ returned and worshiping him...the mark of the beast...
If Matthew 24 is not the same event as 1 Thes 4 re the rapture (Which it is), then the word of God is open to interpretation...An unreasonable commitment to dispensationalism allows this to happen - coming from Pastors and carried over to the flock.
I am a pre trib believer Jesus will come FOR his church/ bride/ believers. Before the Trib. His second coming is when Jesus comes WITH his saints. The key words are for n with. Are they not?.. I do want others to accept Jesus n choose him! So their souls will be secured in n with Jesus for all eternity. Is this not more important?.... We all just wanna go home how or when is Jesus ' choice.
There are those who will be alive and remain when he comes with those who have fallen asleep. Right?
@@Mike65809 I understand it like this if u die your body stays in the earth or ashes your soul goes directly to God if your a believer. If not a believer then u end up in hell. Remember the body is just a vessel. During the rapture you'll have a new body. Those that died previously will get their new body first. Then we will those who are still alive.
@@JordanKayner Right. That is why the the rapture has both the Lord coming with his saints, but also for his saints.
Can I get the over under on whether the Revelation series will be finished pretrib or post trib?? Haha we’re waiting!! 🙏🙏😂
The wrath of God in Paul's understanding isn't hell fire and damnation its the day of the Lord or the great tribulation. Jesus saves us from it. period
??
I’ve been taught pre trib and believed it for many years. For the most part still do just not completely sold on it. I think the biggest struggle is pre, mid, pre wrath and post all have in common?? They all have scripture to support their view and claim everyone else is misinterpreting scripture. However, post is looking to be more accurate. If someone could answer these two questions it would be most helpful.
The Bible say people will be buying, selling, eating drinking and getting married right before his return. If the world has just been beaten relentlessly by Gods wrath, how will life be that normal?
And, once Jesus returns he’s separating the sheep from the goats destroying sin and those who took the mark of the beast. If everyone is raptured at the end, who is going into the millennial reign?
The first question is answered by not taking it hyper literally. Jesus is using parables to make it simple to get his point across. We aren't literally going to all be in mills or fields with 50% gone to jesus as the 2 other parables state. It's simply saying that the unbelievers will go on about their lives unrepentant in their ways.
Remember that pre trib states that 2 thess 2 says the gathering or "rapture" occurs BEFORE the day of the lord. Yet jesus in the Noahs ark parable, just like all the other parables, states that its the same day "until the day noah entered the ark" yet pre trib was just busy claiming the rapture is a different day from his punishment and 2nd coming. Only post or pre wrath can explain this consistently. Then there's the fact that Jesus NEVER mentions anybody being saved. They're all destroyed.
Matthew 24 should be properly read chronologically, so the parables at the end are all 2nd coming. "The coming of the son of man(remember verses 29-31) will be like the days of noah" "soon too will it be at the coming of the son of man"
You'll definitely want to watch a lot more of FAI videos. They go in to great detail with all your questions.
HI Chadwick, To your first question: It is very common, when the Bible speaks of the last days to summarizes it all using various terms. So when Jesus says that folks will essentially be going about their lives when the Son of Man comes, He is not likely speaking exclusively about His glorious coming, but about the entirety of the events that surround His coming, including the tribulation.
The Sheep and Goat judgment is not a judgment of individuals, but nations. The Scriptures speak of many "survivors" from the nations going into the Millennium. Zechariah 14 is an excellent example.
Forgive my brevity. I hope this helps.
Blessings,
Joel
Here's my answer to the 1st question. Jesus is teaching that, before his return, the world will be going on with their ordinary business, completely oblivious to impending divine judgment. The pretrib interpretation, however, makes no sense and is contradicted by the fact that pretribs at the same time, believe the unprecedented wrath of God through the trumpet and bowl judgments occur before the battle of Armageddon. In other words, how can the world be going on with their ordinary business completely oblivious during the trumpet and bowl judgments? How would Jesus’s return at the judgment of Armageddon catch the ungodly off guard as a “thief.” It makes no sense.
Rather, what Jesus is depicting through his illustrations is that the separation pictured at Matthew 24:31 occurs-not in the context of Armageddon-but instead at the rapture which will take place just before the day of the Lord’s wrath begins followed by the trumpet and bowl judgments. When Armageddon does finally arrive, the world by that time will have already been beleaguered from God’s wrath. In fact, the armies of the world will be going after Jesus himself who will be king in Jerusalem. This is a far cry from the world being oblivious to Jesus’s coming for them as a thief after God’s trumpet and bowl judgments have transpired!
I believe the following is a much better interpretation of Jesus’s illustrations. During the Antichrist’s great tribulation, the world will be saying “peace and safety,” completely oblivious of God’s impending judgment. Those days of great tribulation will be cut short at some unknown day and hour when Jesus returns in the clouds and raptures his people. On that same day (rapture), the trumpet and bowl judgments begin and are ultimately culminated by Armageddon.
Here is my answer to the 2nd question. The Bible teaches that after the return of Christ, He will set up an earthly kingdom of 1000 years in duration. The constituents of this earthly kingdom will include both saved and glorified individuals as well as saved and non-glorified individuals. The saved and glorified individuals will consist of all the saved of all the ages from Adam to the last beheaded martyr. The saved and non-glorified group will consist of a remnant of Israel (who is saved at the conclusion of the 70th Week of Daniel) and some Gentile believers who survive to the Day of the Lord.
Following the battle of Armageddon, Christ will sit in judgment of those remaining alive on the earth in what has been called the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matt. 25:31-46). Those Gentile believers, who evidenced their faith by how they treated the Jews during the Great Tribulation, will enter the Millennial kingdom along with the saved Jewish remnant.
There are many Scriptures which give us insight into the conditions on earth during the Millennial reign of Christ. These include Isaiah 35, 60-62, 65; Ezek. 40-48; Micah 4; and Rev. 20-22. From these passages we understand that the Millennial kingdom will be an earthly kingdom, with Christ ruling from the New Jerusalem which will descend from heaven and reside above Mt. Zion. Christ will rule in righteousness over the inhabitants of earth. During this time the earth will have been restored to conditions similar to before the Fall of Adam: wild animals will be tame, there will be no war, trees will give abundant fruit, sin will be punished. Ezekiel 47 points out the fact that fishermen will fish in the waters of the rivers and will catch “very many” fish. So the activities of life continue in a normal fashion, only with a righteous government, peace and perfect conditions. The saved but non-glorified group of individuals will enter the Millennial kingdom in natural, human bodies They will grow, mature, marry, procreate, age, and die (Isa. 65:20-25). Revelation 22 and Ezekiel 47 tell us that the leaves of the trees that grow along the river of life are for the healing of the nations. Isaiah 65 tells us that people on earth at that time will live long lives, and if someone dies at 100 he will be considered accursed. Evidently, similar to those days prior to the flood, people will live hundreds of years.
During these 1000 years, Israel will be the chief nation of the world and will be restored to the full dimensions of her land which God promised. Mt. Zion will be raised up as the chief mountain in the world and it is from here that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem (Ps. 68:16; 132:13-14; Micah 4:1-8). King David will be resurrected and will be the chief prince over the nation of Israel (Jer. 30:9; Ezek. 37:24-25). All other nations will honor Israel and will worship God in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14 tells us that those nations who do not come up to Jerusalem every year to worship God will be punished with no rain. While all the saved, but non-glorified individuals who initially enter the Millennial kingdom will be believers, we understand that during the millennium there will be many people born. Some of these will choose to not follow the leadership of Christ and will be rebellious in their hearts. Those born during this time are born with the same sin nature that humans now are cursed with. Thus, when Satan is released at the conclusion of the 1000 years, he is able to amass a great army to come against the “beloved City”, Jerusalem (Rev. 20:7-10).
Sorry for the long reply, but there were no short answers to your questions. I hope this is helpful.
@@shiner_man no apologies needed. Thank you for the response!
Coming from a pre-trib belief, I must say I like your videos. I watch to get a clearer perspective on the mid or post trib point of view.
If you look at Matt 24 as a whole, you will see Jesus is answering 3 questions of his disciples [verse 3]. "When will these things be?" (Destruction of the Temple) "and what is the sign of Your coming (2nd) and [what is the sign] of the end of the [Church] age?
Jesus describes His 2nd coming and the destruction of the temple up through verse 35.
The disciples wrong order of asking threw me for years also when I was in the reformed church.
To end with a caution like last time: please don't set up straw men like "pre-tribbers feel Christ wasn't being literal without citing evidence. It weakens your point.
I'll end like the last one: brother, we have eternity to laugh over this. I'm looking forward to it!
He is forgetting that we live in the Tribulation of the Saints, a time that will get worse and worse until there are practically no Christians left. That's why the Rapture needs to happen, or "Lot" won't be left to save. And that's why we get the time of Jacob's trouble (called such by Jeremiah), the time of the Great Tribulation. No Church left, so now the focus is on Israel.
@@archangel_one I must be blocked by all on the chat except you, Archangel_one. I assume I am the "he" you are referring to. I suggest you block me also. I'm missing most of the conversation.
@@ernee100 The "he" I'm referring to is the guy on the video. Of course, you may have the same opinion.
I was busy commenting on your comment.
Why should I block you?
@@archangel_one I'm the pre-tribber.
@@ernee100 I'm a logical pre-tribber. It's the only logical position without difficulties.
Two questions that mid and post tribulation experts refused to answer:
#1 How and When did the Bride (church) arrive UP in heaven in Revelation 19:7 KJB
#2 Why would you think you are going to be "raptured" DURING/AFTER the tribulation if Jesus Christ is coming DOWN to rule in Jerusalem for 1,000 years? Revelation 19:11 KJB
NOTE: It seems nonsensical to vehemently disagree with the Pre-trib perspective, but not even mention each other. It should stand to reason; if you were basing your position purely on the word of God, why not disqualify each others viewpoint altogether, if your argument based on the scriptures?
They're not brothers and sisters if they stubbornly refuse to believe the truth. "stubbornness is like the crime of idolatry 1 Samuel 15:23. Idolators will not inherit the kimgdom. There's going to be a lot of disappointed people at the coming of Christ.
Birth pains aren't enough!? Your interpretation says His saints must endure the wrath of God through & during the Tribulation-- "now comfort each other with these words"! Nope. Jesus whom I serve DOES NOT MAKE His believers go through Jacob's Trouble which is earmarked for the remnant of the Jews He made a civenant with [ie: the God we serve does not break His covenants or promises].
Eyy you! Hi. Matthew 24 describe both events, the 1st like in Noa's days, and without putting the foots on the earth Noone will see HIM (the Rapture). The 2nd event is the 2nd Coming when every eye will see HIM and the sun and moon won't shine more and the stars fall from heaven, also another event completely different. And the last Trumpet of Paul is not the 7th Trumpet of the Revelation but the last of Tabernacles Feast. How could've mentioned Paul the Trumpets of the Apocalipsis without the book of the Revelation still wrotten??? Paul didn't know nothing about Revelations Book. Is the last Trumpet on Tabernacles Feast this 17/18 September!!!! Gloria a Dios!!! Has been reveal!!!!
Don't forget John 6:39 where Jesus says He will raise up ALL that the Father gives Him on the LAST DAY. ALL would include tribulation saints.
Yes. But what is your point? The last day is not the last day. There are many days after the rapture. Including the 1,000 year reign with Christ. It is the last day before the rapture.
@@jamescole3152 You don't get it. Jesus said He will raise up ALL on the last day. ALL is the key word. ALL would include ALL tribulation saints, which makes a pre, mid or split rapture impossible.
One thing I would like to point out is that the scripture reads, “…that we who are alive and REMAIN until the coming…”. Why is the word REMAIN used? The meaning of REMAIN is to stay in place after an event of some kind. Why doesn’t the scripture just read those of us who are alive AT the coming…”??? Instead, it reads, “alive AND REMAIN.” Is it possible that those who remained are the lukewarm church or those who only appeared to be as true believing (but we’re in fact not, but later BECOME true believing Christians) up to a certain point, that is, the rapture? This seems to get into the parable of the 10 virgins. The five wise virgins, which had belief and the anointing of the Holy Spirit (oil), were taken into the wedding feast, and the five foolish who appeared to be believing, but did not have the Holy Spirit were left out. Paul counts those believers as equal to himself as “we”because at the time of Jesus‘s triumphal return they have become true believers and they are gathered up to meet all the others who are with Jesus already. I could be wrong, but it seems that there is more than two possibilities here. Also, the letter to the church of Philadelphia specifically mentions “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.” clearly, the church of Philadelphia is kept protected, by a rapture, or a hiding away, or some other supernatural means. I don’t think it’s one way, or the other, but both!!!
I suggest to also read the chapter before and after when Paul said that. And what event(s)he had mentioned before that very verse. Just a suggestion.
It says We which Remain Alive are Gathered Up Together with the Dead in Christ
Paul was teaching on Jesusis words
So if you're going to be here for the tribulation what are you going to do?
Jesus tells us about this time to keep our eyes on God. To trust in God to provide daily needs and a hedge of protection. It will be the most difficult test of faith for any Christian alive at the time - and some, if not many will fail. Jesus said "Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity". Understand that our goal is NOT to save our physical lives at all cost. Jesus did not task us with *surviving* to the end of the time of great troubles. The Christian goal is to remain faithful to God even at the brink of death and resist the urge to save your physical life by complying to the ruling evil.
Maybe get my head cut off. Maybe starve to death. Maybe have all of my assets taken away. Maybe get thrown into prison. What's your point? Revelation 12:11, "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Trust the LORD 'til my last breath. I maybe facing a gruesome death but that wouldn't make me less compared to other believers. Hopefully, my faith would be more solid and tough than the hardships I'd be enduring in those days. It would be an honor to share the hardships the ealier believers had endured and also with the people who would endure it with me because of faith.
In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus is talking specifically about the Rapture. In 1 Thessalonians 14:15-17, Paul elaborated more on Jesus's words by talking about both the Rapture _and_ the First Resurrection. The thing that both of them have in common is that they're both referencing the Second Coming! The Rapture, the First Resurrection, and the Second Coming all take place simultaneously. The Rapture effects living believers, the First Resurrection effects dead believers, and the Second Coming effects _all_ believers! All believers, living and dead, will be caught up in the clouds with the descending Son of God and all of them will receive their glorified bodies at the same time. To divide these three _concurrent_ events into three _separate_ events is to mangle Jesus's and Paul's words.
Your comparison of Matthew 24 with 1 Thessalonians is clear with this exception. It is questionable that Matthew 24:30 is the Second Coming since the context of Matthew 24 answers the question asked by the disciples in Matthew 24:3 concerning when the destruction of the temple would happen. Matthew 24:30 is a portion of that answer about when the temple would be destroyed after which the Lord Jesus proclaimed “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” in Matthew 24:34.
Understand “this generation” in reference to Matthew 10:23, 23:36, 16:28.
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28)
This makes 1 Thessalonians 4:16 incompatible with Matthew 24:30 and removes any understanding of Matthew 24:30 to refer to the Second Coming at the end of the age.
Of all the prophesies in the Bible, this prophecy declared by the Lord Jesus that was fulfilled about forty years after Jesus prophesized, is unmistakable evidence of His authority. Believers should rejoice in such a precise and relevant verification. Also, Bible students should read what Josephus recorded was seen in the clouds and sky before the destruction of the temple.
The pretribulation rapture, mid-tribulation rapture, prerap rapture, and post tribulation rapture each assume a seven-year tribulation. May I suggest a close examination of the passages you use to support a future tribulation and the future seven-year tribulation apart from the presuppositions you have before making your interpretations. Examine what is in the text and what is presumed to make the text support one’s end time scenario?
Just as some apologist make convoluted explanation or interpretations to claim scripture is something different than what they don’t want it to be, serious Bible students do the same things when interpreting scripture to fit a predetermined scenario.
Does not Matthew 24:37-42, where people are taken out of the world, teach a posttribulational rapture?
In fact, Matthew 24:37-42 teaches just the opposite. First, the historical illustration of Noah (vv. 37-39) teaches that Noah and his family were left alive while the whole world was taken away in death and judgment. This is exactly the sequence to be expected at Christ’s second coming as taught in the parable of the wheat and tares (Matt. 13:24-43), the parable of the dragnet (Matt. 13:47-50), and the sheep-goat nation judgment (Matt. 25:31-46).
In all of these cases, at the final event in Christ’s second coming, unbelievers are taken away in judgment and righteous believers remain. Thus no, this passage does not teach about the rapture.
Does not a pretribulational rapture result in two second comings of Christ while Scripture teaches only one second coming?
Not at all. No matter what rapture position one holds, Christ’s second coming is one event which occurs in two parts: (1) Christ coming in the air to rapture the church; and (2) Christ coming to earth to conquer, judge, and set up His kingdom.
When Jeremiah writes (30:7), “And it is the time of Jacob’s distress, but he will be saved from it,” is this not the same kind of language used in Revelation 3:10 (kept from) and would not Revelation 3:10 then point to a posttribulational rapture?
The Septuagint (37:7, LXX reference) translates the Hebrew text of Jeremiah (30:7, Hebrew and English reference) with the verb and preposition combination sozo apo in regard to Israel. They will actually be saved through the judgment and emerge out of it as the people of God over whom Christ will reign as promised to David (2 Sam. 7:8-17) and prophesied by Ezekiel (37:11-28). Because sozo apo means “protected in the midst of,” this has no bearing on the meaning of a different verb and preposition used in Revelation 3:10 (tereo ek). See the earlier discussion on the actual verb/preposition combination in Revelation 3:10. Finally, there is no necessary equation of the outcome to Israel and God’s plan for the church.
If pretribulationism is true, why is there no mention of the “church” in heaven in Revelation 4-19?
It is true that the word for “church” (ekklesia) is not used of the church in heaven in Revelation 4-19. However, that does not mean the church is invisible. There are at least two distinct appearances of the church in heaven. First, the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4-5 symbolize the church. Second, the phrase “you saints and apostles and prophets” in Revelation 18:20 refers clearly to the church in heaven. So, what rapture scenario best accounts for the church being in heaven in these texts at this time? A pretribulational rapture.
Why is Revelation addressed to the church, if the church will not experience the tribulation of Revelation 6-19 due to a pretribulational rapture?
God frequently warned Israel in the OT of impending judgment, even though the generation who received the prophecy would not experience it. As mentioned in the previous answer to Question 2, both Paul (1 Thess. 5:6) and Peter (2 Pet. 3:14-15) used a future judgment, which the people to whom they wrote would not experience, to exhort God’s people to present godly living. The same pattern was followed by John in Revelation. The church was alerted to God’s future judgment of sin on earth as a basis for the church to teach pure doctrine and live holy lives (Rev. 2-3).
If the Day of the Lord occurs at the end of Daniel’s seventieth week, does not the chronological sequence of 1 Thessalonian 4 and 1 Thessalonian 5 teach a postribulational rapture?
First, regardless of whether the Day of the Lord begins at the beginning or the end of Daniel’s seventieth week, this point does not necessarily determine the time of the rapture. Second, the grammar of 1 Thessalonians 5:1 argues against a close chronological sequence with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 by the use of peri de (18 times in the NT). In all but four cases, an obvious change in time or topic is implied (see Matt. 22:31; 24:36; Mark 12:26; 13:32). This prepositional phrase is used by Paul 8 times. Every other Pauline use indicates a change in topic. Therefore, it is expected that Paul’s use of peri de in 1 Thessalonians 5:1 also indicates a change in topic and time. This is consistent with his earlier use of peri de in this epistle (cf. 4:9).
In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul has answered the question concerning the experience of dead loved ones when the rapture comes. But in 5:1 and following, Paul shifts to the Day of the Lord and the subsequent judgment upon unbelievers. This is a totally different topic than the rapture and an event that will occur at a different time than the rapture. If 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11 is to be taken as one unit of thought, as some have suggested, then Paul’s use of peri de means nothing. However, if peri de is to be explained, it is best interpreted as a major shift in thought within the broad topic of eschatology. Only a pretribulational rapture would account for this.
Is there any relationship between the rapture trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4:17/1 Corinthians 15:52 and the trumpet of Joel 2:1, or the trumpet of Matthew 24:31, or the trumpet of Revelation 11:15? If so, does this not contradict a pretribulational rapture?
A careful study of the almost one hundred uses of “trumpet/trumpets” in the OT will quickly advise the student of Scripture not to equate the trumpets in any two texts hastily, without a great deal of corroborating contextual evidence. For example, there is the trumpet used for warning (Jer. 6:1), the trumpet used for worship/praise (2 Chron. 20:28; Ps. 81:3; 150:3; Isa. 27:3), the trumpet used for victory (1 Sam. 13:3), the trumpet used for recall (2 Sam. 2:28; 18:16), the trumpet used for rejoicing (2 Sam. 6:15), the trumpet used for announcements (2 Sam. 20:1; 1 Kings 1:34; 2 Kings 9:13), and the trumpet for dispersement (2 Sam. 20:22), to name a few.
After looking at the texts in question, it appears that each trumpet is used for a purpose that is unique and different from the other three. The trumpet of Joel 2:1 is a trumpet of warning that the Day of the Lord is near (cf. Jer. 6:1). The trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4:17/1 Corinthians 15:52 is a trumpet which announces the approaching king (cf. Ps. 47:5) so that people may go out to greet Him. The trumpet of Matthew 24:31 is a trumpet call to assembly (cf. Exod. 19:16; Neh. 4:20; Joel 2:15). The trumpet of Revelation 11:15 is the seventh in a series of seven and is a trumpet that announces victory (cf. 1 Sam. 13:3). There is no compelling reason to equate the rapture trumpet with any of these other three trumpets. Therefore, these texts cannot be used to determine the time of the rapture.
Does not the promise of deliverance for church saints in 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, at the time when Jesus returns with His angels to judge the world, point to a later rapture time than pretribulational?
Paul is not writing a detailed, chronological, or even precise prophetic treatise here, but rather is wanting to give the Thessalonians hope that, in the end, God’s righteousness will prevail. Like OT prophets (cf. Isa. 61:1-2; 2 Pet. 1:10-11), Paul has compressed the details so that the range of time is not apparent, nor are all of the details. The apostle is plainly assuring the Thessalonians that there will certainly be a coming day of retribution for their persecutors. This text really has no bearing on determining the time of the rapture.
So many people just believe what they want to believe instead of studying the Bible. God will not reward them for laziness or self-serving beliefs. Jesus showed us in the Lord's prayer that God's name being sanctified was the first priority, the second was God's kingdom coming and his will being done on EARTH as it is in heaven. I see nothing about rapturing to heaven in the entire prayer.
Proof of A Pre trib Rapture. Pay Attention to the Cloud and Clouds Jesus appears In and With. Acts chapter 1 verses 9 10 11 Cloud. In Red Luke chapter 21 verses 27 and 28 Jesus is coming In A Cloud the Rapture. In Revelation chapter 1 verse 7 Jesus is coming With the Clouds when he comes back to the Mt of Olive the second coming KJV. 2 are the same like manner one is Not.
One thing seals it without any exploration of scripture, and that's the fact that pretrib was literally MADE UP, and not taught in the early church. Waffles me all the same people who always reference false doctrine because it wasn't taught in the early church, give this one a pass.
There's no scripture that uses the term coming in a plural form as coming s this is one event
Nope. The 2 events are obvious. One is the church is caught up to meet Christ for the very first time, *In the clouds*.
The second coming the saints are coming from heaven with Christ on white horses. Not hard to see at all.
Joel can you elaborate more on your position. I understand your position on a pre trib rapture. So are you saying that there is no post,or mid trib rapture. That will happen during the seven years. I’m confused. I thought Paul said that we are not appointed to Gods wrath.
Also 2 thess 2:3-10. I was taught that the Holy Spirit was the restrainer. If he resides in us wouldn’t we also be removed. I’m believing that if God once us to go through the tribulation he will do great things to protect us. But my understanding does not completely understand why the church would go through the worst shaking of the planet even greater than the days of Noah. It’s a great opportunity to evangelize. But if they didn’t believe then and the delusional minds of people blaspheming God
even more seems futile. Noah testified to non believers for a 120 years and only 8 people were saved. Can ya help a brotha out on this one😊😅😂
Thank you friend for your response. Although I’m still a little confused. I get a little bit of your understanding but I think I need a more dumb downed version.
Holy Spirit is not the Restrainer !
Tribulations is not the Wrath of the Lamb Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ Return's in His Wrath.
Noah and Lot Lived through the Tribulations of those Day's and we're taken out before the Wrath of God Jesus Christ
Ok I think I understand your position. Wrath vs judgment. Although I may disagree with some things that are discussed does not mean that debating over rapture or tribulation, wrath. Will change our belief and trust in Christ. It’s not an issue against them. It’s trusting in Jesus past present and future.
@@shawnhames4780 Ride On Brother in Jesus Christ, God Bless you
Ok, I see where he is going wrong. For starters, Matthew 24:29-31 is about the 2nd coming of Yeshua at the end of the tribulation. I can tell you exactly when that will occur 7 years or 2520 days after the anti christ signing of a peace treaty with Israel, then Yeshua continues on through vs 32-35 at verse 36 he changes subject from the second coming after the tribulation to the pre tribe rapture, he uses Noah and the flood as an analogy, the people then didn't believe Noah and just kept living there lives, until Noah went into the Ark and it started to rain (the judgement).
Matthew 24:42 admonishes us to "stay alert because you don't know on what day your Lord will come."
note Yeshua says he will send HIS angels to gather HIS elect, his elect here has to be the Elect of Yeshua not the jews, so it is certain that Yeshua is speaking of those who believe in him.
There is no 7 year tribulation . The Septuagint translation of Daniel 9: 24-27 is the best translation . Daniel 9 is about Jesus ending the sacrifice and offering not the antichrist
Yeah and your view makes no sense. Because it then says "abomination of ........"
When the rapture happens is not a salvation issue. Be careful about the tone you take against your brothers and sisters, love each other and be good to each other regardless of belief.
what to do if you miss the rapture ua-cam.com/video/o_pYr2-U3hk/v-deo.htmlsi=kgu3nZ3Ru4zHFbpd
God will not allow children to suffer in tribulation so post trib is wrong. If chrisrians will be in tribulation many chrisrians cannot refuse the mark of the beast
God allows his children to suffer the tribulation of this world every single day. More Christians are murdered for their faith now than at any time in history.
You stated, "God will not allow children to suffer in tribulation..." and now you need to back that up with Chapter and Verse.
I agree with you Felix. John 14:1-4. Philippians 3:20-21. 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18
@@firstnamelastname9262 I'm confused. About what do you agree with Felix? None of the scriptures you referenced in your post have anything to do with Felix's statement.
I still don't know what point Felix is trying to assert because I'm not sure if he means literal "children" or if he left out a word as in 'His children' or 'children of God' nor do I understand his second sentence. Is he positing that no Christians will be in the period of 'great tribulation' or that Christians in the period of 'great tribulation' will recant?
While I'm a mid-trib leaning believer, you are missing what pretrib folks believe. They do have an answer, and believe it's the believing Jews whom Scripture points to. And those who walk into the Millennium without taking the mark, even if still unbelieving, are also thought to be those having been protected inside orthodox quarters. Pretrib thinkers have a great respect for what God's doing with His focus at the end of Temporal Time, with the New. For she is NOT married to the Son (only covered by His Blood). She is that wife returning to the Father. Wife of Ishi, as it were. The TWO brides are the two olive trees and the two lampstands. Some even see in His Word based for believing two separate conglomerates, Jew & Gentile, are the end times two witnesses!
Meant "Jew" not "New"
Meant "bases" not" based
Great comments! Totally on track with what you’re saying. I know a lot of good people doing great things for God that believe in the rapture. Having grew up in that line of thinking and having watched many of the FAI teachings, I now don’t believe either way. Furthermore, I don’t think it’s crucial to believe, either way, in order to live a highly effective life for God in one’s calling/mission while on earth.
@@jarrettjb, I see what you mean. However, the biggest reason, for aptly picking apart the last hours, is so those left behind can count the days. They're going to need the greater encouragement not to give in, give up. And to keep on witnessing!
They believe that it is only the Jewish people because they completely misunderstand Matthew 24 by saying its only for the Jews. But who was Jesus talking to, Jews, or to His disciples, the first Christians! It would be the disciples, and later early church fathers that would bring this instruction to the churches and to believers across the world. The instructions are first for the church, and then for those Jews actually living in the land of Israel.
1)The Rapture Is Rendered Inconsequential if it is Posttribulational
First, if God miraculously preserves the church through the tribulation, why have a rapture? If it is to avoid the wrath of God at Armageddon, then why would God not continue to protect the saints on earth (as is postulated by posttribulationism) just as He protected Israel (see Exod. 8:22; 9:4, 26; 10:23; 11:7) from the wrath He poured out on Pharaoh and Egypt. Further, if the purpose of the rapture is for living saints to avoid Armageddon, why also resurrect the saints who are already immune at the same time?
Second, if the rapture will take place in connection with the Lord’s posttribulational coming, the subsequent separation of the sheep from the goats (see Matt. 25:31 ff.) will be redundant. Separation will have taken place in the very act of translation.
Third, if all tribulation believers are raptured and glorified just prior to the inauguration of the millennial Kingdom, who then will populate and propagate the Kingdom? The Scriptures indicate that the living unbelievers will be judged at the end of the tribulation and removed from the earth (see Matt. 13:41-42; 25:41). Yet, they also teach that children will be born to believers during the millennium and that these children will be capable of sin (see Isa. 65:20; Rev 20:7-10). This will not be possible if all believers on earth have been glorified through a posttribulational rapture.
Fourth, the posttribulational paradigm of the church being raptured and then immediately brought back to earth leaves no time for the Bema, i.e., the Judgment Seat of Christ to occur (1 Cor. 3:10-15; 2 Cor. 5:10), nor for the Marriage Supper (Rev. 19:6-10). Thus, it can be concluded that a posttribulational time of the rapture is incongruous with the sheep-goat nation judgment, and, in fact, eliminates two critical end-time events. A pretribulational rapture avoids all of these difficulties.
2). The Epistles Contain No Preparatory Warnings of an Impending Tribulation for Church-Age Believers
God’s instructions to the church through the epistles contain a variety of warnings, but never do they warn believers to prepare for entering and enduring the tribulation of Daniel’s seventieth week.
They warn vigorously about coming error and false prophets (see Acts 20:29-30; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 4). They warn against ungodly living (see Eph. 4:25-5:7; 1 Thess. 4:3-8; Heb. 12:1). They even admonish believers to endure in the midst of present tribulation (see 1 Thess. 2:13-14; 2 Thess. 1:4; 1 Peter). However, there is absolute silence on preparing the church for any kind of tribulation like that found in Revelation 6-18.
It is incongruous, then, that the Scriptures would be silent about such a traumatic change for the church. If any time of the rapture other than pretribulational were true, one would expect the epistles to teach the reality of the church in the tribulation, the purpose of the church in the tribulation, and the conduct of the church in the tribulation. However, there is no teaching whatsoever. Only a pretribulational rapture satisfactorily explains this silence.
3). First Thessalonians 4:13-18 Demands a Pretribulational Rapture
Suppose, hypothetically, that some other rapture timing besides pretribulational is true. What would one expect to find in 1 Thessalonians 4? How does this compare with what is actually observed?
First, one would expect the Thessalonians to be joyous over the fact that loved ones are home with the Lord and will not have to endure the horrors of the tribulation. But the Thessalonians are actually grieving because they fear their loved ones have missed the rapture. Only a pretribulational rapture accounts for this grief.
Second, one would expect the Thessalonians to be grieving over their own impending trial rather than grieving over loved ones. Furthermore, they would be inquisitive about their own future doom. But the Thessalonians have no fears or questions about the coming tribulation.
Third, one would expect Paul, even in the absence of interest or questions by the Thessalonians, to have provided instructions and exhortation for such a supreme test, which would make their present tribulation seem microscopic in comparison. But not one indication of any impending tribulation of this sort appears in the text.
First Thessalonians 4 fits only the model of a pretribulational rapture. It is incompatible with any other time for the rapture.
4). John 14:1-3 Parallels 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
John 14:1-3 refers to Christ’s second coming. It is not a promise to all believers that they shall go to Him at death. It does refer to the rapture of the church. Note the close parallel between the promises of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. First, the promise of a presence with Christ: “. . . that where I am, there you may be also” (John 14:3) and “. . . thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:17). Second, the promise of comfort: “Let not your heart be troubled . . .” (John 14:1) and “Therefore comfort one another with these words” (1 Thess. 4:18).
Jesus instructed the disciples that He was going to His Father’s house (heaven) to prepare a place for them. He promised that He would return and receive them so that they could be with Him wherever He was.
The phrase “wherever I am,” while implying continued presence in general, here means presence in heaven in particular. The Lord told the Pharisees in John 7:34, “Where I am you cannot come.” He was not talking about His then-present abode on earth, but rather His resurrected presence at the right hand of the Father. In John 14:3, “where I am” must mean “in heaven,” or the intent of 14:1-3 would be meaningless.
A posttribulational rapture demands that the saints meet Christ in the air and immediately descend to earth without experiencing what the Lord promised in John 14. Since John 14 refers to the rapture, only a pretribulational rapture satisfies the language of John 14:1-3 and allows raptured saints to dwell for a meaningful time with Christ in His Father’s house.
5). The Nature of Events at Christ’s Posttribulational Coming Differs from that of the Rapture
If one compares what happens at the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 with what happens in the final events of Christ’s second coming in Matthew 24-25, at least eight differences are observable. These differences demand that the rapture occur at a time significantly different from that of the final event of Christ’s second coming.
At the rapture, Christ comes in the air and returns to heaven (1 4:17), but at the final event of the second coming, Christ comes to the earth to dwell and reign (Matt. 25:31-32).
At the rapture, Christ gathers His own (1 4:16-17), but at the final event of the second coming, angels gather the elect (Matt. 24:31).
At the rapture, Christ comes to reward (1 4:17), but at the final event of the second coming, Christ comes to judge (Matt. 25:31-46).
At the rapture, resurrection is prominent (1 4:15-16), but at the final event of the second coming, resurrection is not mentioned.
At the rapture, believers depart the earth (1 4:15-17), but at the final event of the second coming, unbelievers are taken away from the earth (Matt. 24:37-41).
At the rapture, unbelievers remain on earth, but at the final event of the second coming, believers remain on earth (M 25:34).
At the rapture, there is no mention of establishing Christ’s Kingdom on earth, but at the final event of the second coming, Christ has come to set up His Kingdom on earth (Matt. 25:31, 34).
At the rapture, believers will receive glorified bodies (cf. 1 15:51-57), but at the final event of the second coming, no one will receive glorified bodies.
Additionally, several of Christ’s parables in Matthew 13 confirm differences between the rapture and the final event of Christ’s second coming.
In the parable of the wheat and tares, the tares (unbelievers) are taken out from among the wheat (believers) at the second coming (Matt. 13:30, 40), but believers are removed from among unbelievers at the rapture (1 4:15-17).
In the parable of the dragnet, the bad fish (unbelievers) are taken out from among the good fish (believers) at Christ’s second coming (Matt. 13:48-50), but believers are removed from among unbelievers at the rapture (1 4:15-17 ).
Finally, the rapture is not mentioned in either of the most detailed second coming texts-Matthew 24 and Revelation 19. This is to be expected in light of the observations above, because the pretribulational rapture will have occurred seven years earlier.
6). Revelation 3:10 Promises that the Church Will Be Removed Prior to Daniel’s Seventieth Week
The issue here is whether the phrase “keep you from the hour of testing” means “a continuing safe state outside of” or “safe emergence from within.”
The Meaning of Ek
The Greek preposition ek has the idea of emergence, but this is not the case in every context. Two notable exceptions to the basic idea are 2 Corinthians 1:10 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10. In the Corinthian passage, Paul rehearses his rescue from death by God. As is apparent, Paul did not emerge from a state of death, but instead was rescued from that potential danger.
Even more convincing is 1 Thessalonians 1:10. Here Paul states that Jesus is rescuing believers out of the wrath to come. The idea is not emergence out of wrath, but rather protection from entrance into wrath.
Therefore, ek can be understood to mean either “a continuing state outside of” or “emergence from within.” Thus, no rapture position can be dogmatic at this point. At best, all positions remain possible.
The Meaning of Tereo Ek
It has been argued that if John had meant “to keep from,” he would have used tereo apo (cf. James 1:27). But it is more than equally true that if John had meant “protection within,” he would have used tereo with en, eis, or dia. The greater burden of proof lies with the mid- and post- tribulational positions since their solution of immunity within does not explain the use of ek.
First, ek is much closer to apo in meaning than it is to en, eis, or dia. The two frequently overlap, and in modern Greek apo is absorbing ek. When combined with tereo, ek much more closely approximates apo than it does en, eis or dia.
Second, the phrase tereo en is used three times in the NT (see Acts 12:5; 1 Pet. 1:4; Jude 21). In each instance, it implies previous existence within with a view to continuation within. Now, if tereo en means continued existence within, what does tereo ek mean? Since they are anything but synonymous, it quite logically means to maintain an existence outside.
Tereo Ek in John 17:15
John 17:15 is the only other passage in the NT where tereo ek occurs. This word combination does not occur in the Septuagint. It is assumed that whatever the phrase means here, it also means the same in Revelation 3:10.
If tereo ek means “previous existence within,” it contradicts 1 John 5:19 which states that believers are of God and unbelievers are in the evil one. Now if 1 John 5:19 implies that believers are not in the power of the evil one, John 17:15 could not possibly imply that they are in the power of Satan and needing protection. John 17:15 records the Lord’s petition to keep them outside of the evil one.
Since John 17:15 means to keep outside of the evil one, the parallel thought in Revelation 3:10 is to keep the church outside of the hour of testing. Therefore, only a pretribulational rapture would fulfill the promise.
The Martyrs in Revelation 6:9-11 and 7:14
If Revelation 3:10 means immunity or protection within as other positions insist, several contradictions result. First, if protection in Revelation 3:10 is limited to protection from God’s wrath only and not Satan’s wrath also, then Revelation 3:10 denies the Lord’s request in John 17:15.
Second, if it is argued that Revelation 3:10 means total immunity, then of what worth is the promise in light of Revelation 6:9-11 and 7:14 where martyrs abound? The wholesale martyrdom of saints during the tribulation demands that the promise to the Philadelphian church be interpreted as “keeping out of” the hour of testing, not “keeping within.”
Its very clear Jesus will come to get his church the rapture. And He will come with his church in second coming
That's not clear at all. That is an American church tradition, full of assumptions and assertions not backed up in the Bible.
The angels will gather the elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the another. Or one end of heaven. He's Talking about the heavens and gathering the elect in the heavenly's. Not the elect on earth going through the tribulation. The tribulation saints. There is no mention of coming down for saints and going back up to be glorified and coming back down to battle. Jesus comes down and never leaves. How is it possible to have children being born in the 1000 year millennial period. If saints go up and get glorified they now can not have children. But children are being born during this time. This would be saints who have not be glorified. The tribulation saints. Just thinking.
Post Trib rapture is based on scripture. PreTrib rapture is based on conjecture, speculation and misinterpretation of Scripture.
Rapture is posttrib and It’s not really debatable. Here are some irrefutable truths.
1. The rapture is AFTER the resurrection.
1 Thessalonians 4. Dead in Christ shall rise first.
2. Jesus said the resurrection is on ‘THE LAST DAY’ over and over and over in John 6. That is the last day of the age of grace. The last day of life without Christ. The last day of the church age. The last day of the New Covenant. The next day starts the millennial kingdom. If the resurrection is ON THE LAST DAY obviously then this means that the rapture is on the last day since the RAPTURE IS AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The rapture is on the last day.
3. The resurrection / rapture is in Rev 20:4. Here we find ‘the last day’. John says he saw the dead come to life. This is the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture is right after it. The rapture is post trib. It is AFTER Rev 5-19. The church goes THROUGH the tribulation. We will not experience Gods wrath just like Israel did not experience Gods wrath when God punished Egypt. And Noah didn’t experience Gods wrath when He flooded the whole earth, but Noah was preserved THROUGH the flood. Not raptured out of it. Israel was not raptured out of Egypt. God will test the church. He will have a pure spotless bride for His Son.
Any other position other than a posttrib rapture twists and distorts Gods Word.
And then there’s Jesus’ message in
Matthew 24:29-31
“But immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days……..And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, ………….And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
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Jesus Himself says that He is coming back for His church and will gather it immediately AFTER the tribulation.
How can it get ANY CLEARER????
Stop with this false doctrine of a PreTrib rapture. The doctrine of escapism has to be exposed and refuted by the word of God. Too many people planning their escape instead of filling their lamp with oil.
Having said this, in Rev 3:10 God promises to keep those who have proven their faithfulness from the hour of testing. Knowing that be so faithful that God keeps you from the tribulation. Remember this promise of Christ is to only ONE of the seven churches in Revelation. One. There are letters to SIX other churches.
And remember this verse.
Revelation 13:7
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
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God will give Antichrist power to persecute and kill His saints. Sounds crazy but that’s His plan. Don’t let people tickle your ears with anything that’s not the truth.
2 Timothy 2:15
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Read your Bible. Test your teachers. Reject false teachers. Endure to the end and you will be saved. That’s a promise from God.
Math 27:52-53 is pre- trib. ( but already happened ) is prior to tribulation of Nero . So do these teachers just ignore this. After the tribulation of Nero . Every 1000 yrs We are the next event. 7 events Enoch was in first 1000 yrs. JESUS stated "coming again" HE walked with Adam and Eve came as the Lamb and "coming again" Richardson takes verses out of contex. Because they dont teach Math 27:52-53 so of course "after tribilstion" Romanism has taught us what? Only 1st and 2nd time. Not true. 2 witnesees Rev 11 and "those beheaded" Rev 20 . Are after 1 Thes 4:14-17 . Dan 9:26-27 in contex is Messiah ( KJV ) is middle of the wk Passover Annusl Sabbath ( rest day) and wkly rest ( Sabbath) not good Frid. Richirdson stated 2nd coming. ( not found in Bible. Only ref 2nd is to do with the one time death. Dont need the Romanistic Mass and the euchrist ( is not on the cross ) died once for all. ( by faith in YESHUA JESUS finished work by HIS SHED BLOOD ) Richardson likes bashing other views to support his view of post- trib. But doesnt mention Math 27:52-53 . No not what Joel teaches. 1 Four zero Three Eight Three Zero Fortyone Twentyfour hope/ pray/ fast C u's .
The pre-trib or mid and post trib controversy is complete stupidity and nonsense, the reason being there is not one but two rapture events. One is for the church of grace age and the one body which is pre trib and pre Day of the Lord. The other is roughly mid trib and belongs to the church of the bride, who is the virgin woman called out of Israel to be the beloved and betrothed of the Lord and the remnant that God will chose and elect to be his new covenant Israel. The church of grace was a mystery hid in God hence there is no mention of it or it's doctrines in any of the old testament or even the kingdom age gospel that John the Baptist, Jesus, and the 12 apostles, in his earthly ministry and also in the 12 apostles commission to preach that kingdom gospel to the Jews and Israel. There is however mentioned in the kingdom age gospel as a fulfillment of old testament prophecy the coming of the groom to deliver his bride out of the time of darkness, suffering, affliction, and persecution of the great tribulation or time of Jacobs trouble. When Paul is speaking by revelation to the present grace age church he says that there will be a rapture event for this church which had been a secret and mystery which God is NOW revealing. The rapture of the church of the bride was never a mystery therefore it can not be same event as the rapture of the church of the one body. It is impossible to mix up these two different churches without introducing massive confusion and contradiction and perverting the dispensational truth of both gospels that of the kingdom age and that of the grace age, and the prophetic and historical chronological truth of the times and seasons of these different dispensations. The fact there are parallels and analogs that exist between the churches and dispensations does not mean that these two churches have the exact same doctrinal teachings, they do not. First of all when Paul says the Lord descends with a shout with the voice of an archangel and with the trump of God, this trumpet is last in the same way God is alpha and omega, first and last. This trumpet is specifically mentioned as singular the trumpets in the book of revelation or in the Jewish feasts are not singular but multiple, so that distinction must be made as well. Now it is true that in the kingdom gospels and in the old testament prophecy the general time frame for the end times is constructed but the precise exact day and hour for the end of our dispensation and the beginning of the next is still a mystery. But we do know that it is during the twilight time of dusk when the Sun is setting and the night is beginning which is when the Jewish new day also begins.
Ai whas so hopeful. I never hear one preaching that make a DESTRUCTIVE deverince between the nasion of Israel the 12 tribes and the children of God of every tribe, nasion, tung , that beleve in the rapture before the tribulation.. kan beg you to begin your teaching. On this two groups first for the children of God have a heavenly ekspektasion. While the new Israel... Revelation 20 a earthly ekspektasion. ... please please please begin your resurch hear..
No post tribulations rapture. Jesus comes to set feet in Jerusalem after the Jews say blessed is he that coming in the name of Lord. To much replacement theology here
And Israel does that at the time of the post trib rapture, just before God pours out His wrath, during which the Jews will be protected.
You and I will be here for the GT. Time for us to get ready, God's way.
Jesus said and knew not until the flood came and took them all away. So shall also the coming of the son of man be. (Mathew 24:39.)
Jesus told us that the last generation of Noah's day knew nothing of the flood until it came upon them. He said his judgment is going to come suddenly, and unexpectedly upon this last generation just as it did came upon the last generation of Noah's day.
If there is to be a post-trib rapture at the Lord's second coming then his judgment will not be a sudden, and an unexpected event if all eyes will see him coming.
Noah did know, though. In the same way, Revelation 16 states 15¶“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
In other words, those who are right with God will know. The rest of the world will not know. They will be deceived.
@@mikek001yes, Noah and his family did know.
Dont ask the right people.
??
With an open heart I bring to your attention Rev. 12, a true rapture verse in the book of the last days. There are the 24 elders in heaven before the lamb opens the seals. Who are they and how did they get there? There is actually 3 raptures including the 144K and excluding the ascended 2 witnesses. Check out Brenda Weltners material and leave your dogma at the door. She is legit and biblically sound with an open challenge on all materials presented.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? Gen 37:9-10 (KJV)
The sun, moon, and stars are obviously symbolic, they represent the three major powers (nations) of the given 1,000-year day. Their brightness denotes the order of hierarchy. Today’s nations are U.S.A.=sun, Russia=moon, and China(red dragon)=stars. China will start WWIII bringing final judgement of the remaining 10 tribes (“stars”). Russia will be destroyed (“the moon as blood”). U.S.A. (“sun darkened”) will be the only nation with relatively any power left.
All glory to God. Amen
Or, the Bible is describing literal signs in the heavens that herald the coming of the King.
@@mikenunya4491"the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me."
the sun, moon, and stars are obedient to no one on this earth, the nations are.
@@lonecar144 You seem to be missing the context. The sun and moon go dark, the stars fall from the heavens, whatever that actually means, and then the sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the heavens. Get it? Everything goes dark to make way for the LORD of Light!
That is a blatantly false and "private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20). You're ignoring the interpretation of Joseph's 2 dreams given within the text. Why were Jacob and his brothers angry about Joseph's dreams? His brothers knew that the dream of the sheaves meant that the 11 other brothers would do "obeisance" to Joseph and the Joseph would "reign over" and have "dominion over" them. In the dream of the sun, moon and 11 stars, Jacob clearly knows what it means because it's in the text and everyone can connect the two elevens with the eleven brothers of Joseph. The text mentions NOTHING of anything that you wrote. You keep this nonsense up and the Lord will put the blinders upon you like he did to others that wouldn't hear His words.
@@mcgeorgerl If you read on to 2 Peter 1:21, with a little discernment you would see that it is speaking about the authors of scripture, because if scripture is written by men of passion and perspective then the bible is trash.
Everything you or I, and everyone else does is private, according to the way they are taught, raised, according to their love, and hates. Therefore is is impossible for anyone to discern the bible(KJV) without the spirit of God.
If the truth were being told then the prophecy of Matt. 24:14 would have occurred years ago, shortly after the advent of the world-wide-web. This FACT proves that the prominent teachers are false teachers.
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the MYSTERY of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Rev 10:7 (KJV)
Therefore your threats about a God that you clearly do not know are empty.
Amen
btw what about the sun and moon doing obedience to Joseph? Don’t answer that to me, settle in in your own heart.
After Paul described the rapture escape in 1 Thess 4-5, he basically said the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night and bad people won’t escape, but you should repent because you weren’t called to wrath.
Paul was echoing Jesus’ Olivet Discourse warning to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all the things that are coming to pass (Great Tribulation/Day of the Lord) and stand before him.
BTW I’m mid-trib, but I agree with pre-trib on most points.
There will be a gathering of the elect after the tribulation. That should settle the question. The pre-tribbers try to give false hope to people and this will come as a shock to them.
You have some balanced comments here. I grew up in the rapture of the church before the tribulation light of thinking. Having watched many FAI teachings, I now don’t claim either viewpoint. I think any Christian can live a highly effective life for God, and accomplish their mission on earth properly, without using either line of thinking.
2 PETER chapter 3 says "the thief in the night" and is talking about the second coming
@jarrettjb , I agree with your sentiment about the possibility of living for God without even thinking about the rapture (or end times). However, the Bible warns us the worst time in human history is ahead, calls us to escape it to the marriage supper of the Lamb, and teaches us how to escape.
Many people think salvation from sin guarantees their entry, but Jesus warned everyone to be prepared for his appearing or risk being left behind. So, repent from sin, watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape everything and stand before the Son of man.
Matt 24:37 thru 5:13, Luke 21:34-36, Rev 3:1-5, 19:6-10
@@michellebehr7669, the Day of the Lord is a long period of time that starts soon after the rapture, and Peter describes the destruction of the universe that’s later described in Rev 20 between the Millennium and Great White Throne.
by pre trib logic, Jesus died 4 times because all 4 gospel writers use different wordings. i tell u, pre tribbers are the most difficult and probly most judgemental christians i ever known. they literally believe they have some divine authority to decided who gets raptured, and who gets left behind.
its always the same thing...."you're gona get left behind because......but i'm going to be raptured because i believe Jesus can come any second of any day, how dare you say otherwise."
PRETRIB Rapture VS VS POST TRIB simple to understand
Contrasts Between Comings
The Rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a “translation or
resurrection coming” (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) in which the Lord
comes for His church, taking her to His Father’s house (John 14:3).
On the other hand, Christ’s Second Advent with His saints (the Church=Rev. 19)
descends from heaven and arrives on earth to stay and set up His
Messianic Kingdom (Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31). The differences
between these two events are harmonized naturally by the pre-trib position,
while other views are not able to comfortably account for such differences.
Paul speaks of the Rapture as a “mystery” (1 Cor. 15:51-54), that is,
The truth not revealed until it was disclosed by the apostles (Col. 1:26). Thus
the Rapture is said to be a newly revealed mystery, making it a separate
event. The Second Coming, on the other hand, was predicted in the Old Testament.
(Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4).
The New Testament teaches about the Rapture of the church and yet
also speaks of the Second Coming of Christ. These two events are
different in a number of ways. Note the following contrasts between the
translation at the Rapture and Christ's Second Coming to establish the
kingdom.
Rapture/Translation
1 Translation of all believers
2 Translated saints go to heaven
3 Earth not judged
4 Imminent, any-moment, signless does not need a sign
5 Not in the Old Testament
6 Believers only
7 Before the day of wrath
8 No reference to Satan
9 Christ comes for His own
10 He comes in the air
11 He claims His bride
12 Only His own see Him
13 Tribulation begins
2nd Coming/ Estab. Kingdom
1 No translation at all
2 Translated saints return to earth
3 Earth judged & righteousness
established
4 Follows definite predicted signs
including tribulation
5 Predicted often in Old Testament
6 Affects all men
7 Concluding the day of wrath
8 Satan bound
9 Christ comes with His own
10 He comes to the earth
11 He comes with His bride
12 Every eye shall see Him
13 Millennial Kingdom begins
Scripture concludes that these “contrasts should make it
evident that the translation of the church is an event quite different in
character and time from the return of the Lord to establish His kingdom,
and confirms the conclusion that the translation takes place before the
tribulation.
Both events mention clouds symbolizing a heavenly role in both, but
other differences demonstrate that these are two distinct events. At the
Rapture, the Lord comes for His saints (1 Thes. 4:16); at the Second
Coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thes. 3:13). At the Rapture, the
Lord comes only for believers, but His return to the earth will impact all
people.
Had to laugh...don't know what Peregrine is so I googled it and it's a New Zealand Wine brand...go Preach.
All through Scripture, God's people have never been put under His wrath. We may experience severe testing and even die for our faith, but we will not be punished with the unbelievers.
Correct. Which is why there is no mention of the wrath of God during the first 5 seals. And the church is clearly seen at the 5th seal.
Like it or not. This is a hot button issue. Every one says the scripture is clear. I grew up in a Baptist pre trib. Theology. Now days the only thing I know for sure is that I'm more confused than ever. Some even would say all I've ever been taught is a heresy and will go to hell if I continue to believe that. I really just don't know anything I thought knew. I pray God will have mercy because a great many of beautiful people that supposedly taught me the bible will be burning in torment just as their church and families that taught them. 😢
Same here. I'm from darn near that same situation. I've been trying to study all the different end times views. (I lean more and more premillennial, post trib view each day). It's tough because ever since the early church there has been many different interpretations and viewpoints that say the scripture is clear and have gained following more from their popularity and influence. I guess that's why nowadays people follow blindly, instead of desiring to know more of God's truth in all of this. But even stating that isn't enough to try to comprehend either, because, like you, I know many people, including my own parents, who I know from my perspective, are genuine Christians and desire God, but believe in pre trib. I do think people across different end times beliefs and even different denominations people will go to meet Jesus. I don't think it's much of a matter having a different opinion, cause all of us do, I think it's a matter of if their ambition and pride is getting in the way of the Holy Spirit forming and changing their behavior and perspectives. In other words, having humility. I pray God gives all of us discernment about such things and continue to do so. All in all, it is an absolute fact that the Truth is found in Christ Jesus and we should still strive to live for Him and encourage others to do so. Iron sharpens iron.😊 There's my internet comment for the year.😮💨😂
Comparing the Scriptures side by side in this video was clear
I understand where you are coming from. When I first studied pre-wrath, I did not get it at all. I talked to Alan Kurschner and I was like, "well that sounds like post-trib?" Exactly, he said. Once you see the timing markers in Joel and Matthew, remove any discussion of 7 year Tribulations, and realize that the tribulation is not the wrath of God, it starts becoming very clear.
@@michellebehr7669 💯
Good thing the rapture has nothing to do with salvation of your soul.
Close. But I will show you the difference between the rapture of the church and the second coming. They can't possibly be the same event.
At the rapture of the church, Jesus comes on the clouds. Both 1 Thessalonians 4, and Mathew 24 Jesus comes on the clouds to rapture the church. The second coming Jesus is riding a white horse and all the saints are on white horses Rev 19.
It really is that easy. At the rapture the church meets Jesus in the clouds. The second coming the church returns with Christ and everyone is riding white horses.
*The Rapture of the Church*
Rev 1
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen
Mat 24
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Thessalonians 4,
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
*The Second Coming of Christ*
Rev 19
Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
One more. Now tell me is this the rapture or the second coming?
Acts 1
New King James Version
*Jesus Ascends to Heaven*
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
The church is waiting for the rapture, not the second coming.
If I were to ask you to define, Christ's first coming, what would be your response?
Only same thing described from different angels and by differnet persons. There is contradictions in your texts. When he comes every ungodly human will be surprised and everyone shall see him rev.1 even these who have pearced him - the jews. There is a surprising effect. Both your texts shows that everyone shall see him. If it should be a secret rapture as you want it to be how surprised would they be some few years later when he really comes? Have you tried to scare someone twice?
The first time they will be scared for a second when you jump out in front of them from nowhere, but if you do it again little later they will not be so surprised. The reason there is no text about a secret rapture is that its only one event as described in the video.
We are meeeting him in the air means he is coming to us. Otherwise he would meet us. You dont understand why he is coming. He comes basicly to reign. He is puting the whole world to a test of everyones heart: Who do you really belong to (rev.3:10)? The test is the mark. Why? The devil copys everything God does. Read rev22:4. Whos mark do you want? Thats the purpouse of the tribulation. Its how he reign until he have put all his enemies under his feet.
When he comes he have some things to do first. The rapture is Gods solution to get his people out of the way of the wrath. There is 3 examles in OT of how he is dealing with wrath. The days of Noah, the days of Loth and exodus. The wrath there is over pharao and his army in the read sea. As he had done in the past he will do again. Thats why we shall be caught up in the sky. Thats the closets safe place during the short wrath over AC and his people. The resurrection, the rapture and the wrath puts an end of the tribulation in one single day.
After that we shall escort him in to the town which is Jerusalem and then the millenium reign starts. Its a chain of events who is closely connected but in one sence only one event. Many talks about Enoch, Eliah taken to heaven. Paul and John is caught up in the spirit so it has to be a secret rapture. This shows what God is able to do but it says nothing about what he is going to do. You can want him to come and save you from the tribulation but he will not change his mind. He will do as he already has decided and we do best to understand and be prepared and warn about what is going to come.
Some other person wrote a comment here somewhere about him asking the Lord about the rapture becaurse its so confusing: The Lord said: "No one going anywhere before the seventh!" What seven, it has to be the seventh seal. Thats a word from the Lord and it matches what i have heard.
How hard will it be to prepare for pretribulation and then face antichrist and not knowing what to expect or how long time it will last and so on. How many will take the mark becaurse of pretrib teaching. Thinking: I heard we would be raptured but we are all here. If thats not true maybe this guy really is god as he say he is.