We got wrong the Strike and Storm Vanguard roles reversed! Our apologies on that one guys! So to correct- Storm vanguard is the role dedicated to being infront of the squadron to keep oncoming enemy forces off the rest of the unit. Loadout consists generally of- ● 1x 36mm assault cannons with 120mm cannon. ● 2x PB super carbon swords ● 2x PB super carbon knives ●supplemental armour Strike vanguard- opting for more Assault cannons then melee,it is basically in everyway similar to storm vanguard,keeping the enemy off the main squadron units. However they reside behind Stormvanguard TSFs. Loadout consists of- ● 2x 36mm Assault Cannons with 120mm cannons. ●2x PB super carbon swords ●2x PB super carbon knives. (Information derived from codex/wiki)
It’s cool that Americans prioritize long range to the point of not having a sword, like how they did irl with the f-4 not having an internal gun and only relying on missiles for long range because the top brass during early Vietnam war believed the dogfight was dead, I LOVE THIS FRICKING UNIVERSE ITS SO COOL
i did not know that IRL lol,and oh my guy it gets so much better! checkout Yamamoto mech battles in our profile he details many more TSFs and battles etc! -G
The dogfight was dead the majority of air-to-air kills in Vietnam War we're done with missiles the most successful Phantom variant the f4j never had a gun Even then the F4 didn't have a gun in the first place because it was originally a naval interceptor designed to shoot down high altitude bombers
@@peachyG Are gen 4 that strong? Weapon wize far i can see the people in this anime are only using kinetic or explosive weapons and hand to hand non energy melee. As per mobility ac6 mechs has alot more to offer as far as i can see.
@@zarafex-0923 gen 6 ACs, as compared to gen 4 NEXTs, are easier to pilot and are generally faster for a non-experienced pilot. but NEXTs have A LOT more speed potential, and, depending on your NEXT of choice and piloting skills, can achieve speeds of 2000kph+ while overboosting or chainboosting (gen 6 ACs have an average of 300-500 on the light side of things, while NEXTs start off at 200 and go up to 600 on average). they're also bigger than the average AC at 18 meters, while AC6 ACs are about 10-12. additionally, they run on Kojima particles, which basically gives them an endless power source (with the caveat being they irradiate everything everywhere they go) and also giving them a constant "energy" shield (primal armor). tbf, gen 6 ACs are the second strongest in the series after NEXTs, but I reckon I could definitely fuck up a NEXT piloting a gen 6 with not much effort. it all depends on the pilot's raw skill, such as when a gen 5 AC (weakest in the series, made out of scrap metal, slow, tiny at 5 meters) defeated a NEXT piloted by the best damn pilot who had ever lived in VD's ending.
@@zarafex-0923gen 4s have a ridculous amount of energy in them, allowing for a neigh impenetrable shield called primal armor, infinite assault boost and power dashes(which are canonnicaly up to 3000 km/h), all kojima energy weaponry is usually ten times stronger than their coral and normal counterparts, kojima cannons can probably oneshot the surface part of the hive if targeted right, remember that it can be fired immideately after being shot, unlike the huge sussynoo robot, which held similar destructive and defensive capabilities. Armored core gen 4s also would probably actually reach laser class in mere minutes, dashing so fast that BETA strains who defend the lasers wouldnt even have time to react and intercept on the ground level. Tho the kojima radiation is rabid, just standing near a passive gen 4 AC could kill you, not talking about and overboosting one, or even worse near a force armor explosion, which was said to contaminate everything in a 10-20km radius horizontally. So in the end, eurasia would still be an irradiated wasteland. Gen 5 and 6 are significantly weaker then gen 4s, also possibly weaker than last gen TSFs.
It's always great to see the many different designs, loadouts, and strategies used by each nations TSFs, a very effective weapon against the BETA that continues to improve in several distinct ways.
I like the general concept of TSF (and fr it's the only time where mechs make sense) but I hate how the conventional vehicles and infantries are trivialized in Schwarzesmarken and Total Eclipse. In both animes tanks are useless even though they fire 100+ mm rounds, and why not just swap the turret with AA autocannons? Infantries are miserable, in Schwarzesmarken they only use AK and RPG, no 50 cal, no AA battery, only Yui knows to use a Barrett
Definitely something that needed to be shown more in both anime. Especially because tanks and AA guns are very effective against them. And to this day, the anime have not adapted the infantry exoskeletons the ground forces use
There's not enough show and a little too much tale in the series. But, keep in mind these are combined arms operations. Like in Total Eclipse and the Soviet Kamchatka defense line employing tanks, howitzers, bombers, and TSFs Same with Operation 21st, as armored battalions land with TSF units.
Gonna be honest the timeline of TSF Development got split out again between the Unlimited and Alternative timeline. Unlimited is no plan due to AltV, but TSF Development in Alternative after Ouka got peak again, especially the Super Phantom Program
American military having a focus on long range combat is so spot on eith real life american military tactics, the german tsf's having those cool hyper-specialized laser kill squads is a fascinating concept. I learned about thiw universe just an hour ago and i need more!!
Chrckout Yamamoto in our profile links he has a plethora more! With us and him planning many more videos to come for our respective channels! Apart from that the anime and VNs are your best bet! -G
@@DangleBlampy please see our video on 'what is muv luv first though' as it denotes the muv luv extra and unlimited titles of VNs are paramount to enjoying the full story! -G
TSFs are one of my favorites in all mechas. A realistic Military technology. A tool that useful for fighting BETA and Other TSFs. Its not OP that one TSF can change the battlefield. But if use correctly. It can do anything. The doctrine of combine arms warfare is really though in designing the TSFs. A Design that can be use in Air, Land, and Sea? (The day after)
Thats so true! however the type 00 and IRG units in TDA kinda hard solo'd the BETA forces to an extent lol. And that TSFs are probably one of the more grounded in reality mechas out there and its use in modern warfare is so interesting!
@@thealternativeproject most of tsf technology is just modern technology with a bit of twist and the only unrealistic fact about it is the ability for extended flight but I can see the TSF doing short distance flight. Thrust over aerodynamic!
@@magellali1623 indeed but i honestly wonder if the jump units are somehow using magic, because to hold that weight and propel a TSF without a flaw in its movement is kinda funny.
The jump units are the most unrealistic as it needs sudden strong thrusts of power unlike conventional jet propulsion that requires constant stream of thrust. TSFs size alone can make it twice or thrice heavier than an MBT (T-80 and such) and to manuever the TSF at the speed the JUs could, it would need insane thrust to weight rations which would be impossible in conventional engines. Rather than the mechs, the true technological marvel in Muvluv, or perhaps every sci-fi with mounted boosters, are the boosters/engines themselves
I always thought of Muv-Luv as just another cringy rom-com, but the enemies are actually more disturbing looking than terraformars, and the way you tell the lore and the intricaties of how their state of the world and insights into their militaries works, it reminds me of other great people that do this kind of content like Kakarot197 with Gundam, Jethild with C&C, and Armoredcorelore dude (that's his actual name lol), they're all great and you too of course, because i love hearing about sci-fi military and somewhat practical scientific theories of random stuff, good content bro.
I tought Muv-Luv was originally a Rom-Com. It was a Dating Sim VN/Game. Hence its strange Title. The Alien design looks disturbing because... well, I think you know the answer. The Alien Invasion was the back story of where most men and older people died from War Draft, you play as the Main Character with the Goal of dating all the Female Characters in the Military Academy. The Aliens were never really part of the main plot. But somehow the Franchiese took off and expanded into a Gundam like series.
@@steak5599 This is 100% wrong. It's obvious when you replay Extra that the VN was always meant to be a hard sci-fi war story, and Extra is meticulously crafted to introduce all the characters and foreshadow most of the important plot points that happen in Alternative. There is no way they went: "Oh, let's make a rom-com and then reuse the characters in a sci-fi setting", it was completely intentional from the start. ALTERNATIVE SPOILERS Meiya having a sister and that sister being the Shogun, Ayamine being involved with the leader of the rebel plot, Takeru travelling back to the Extra timeline in order to get info out of Extra Yuuko, and having encountered Sumika. There's even more nuanced examples of foreshadowing, but these are the ones that always come to mind.
Conveniently enough, KMFs are designed to deal with conventional machines of war, direct counter to armor and stuff. I would imagine that they would be unexpectedly effective against TSFs as the Tactical Surface Fighters are based off standard doctrine modified against BETA. That said, the BETA would most certainly be an issue, as KMFs don't have the same amount of hovering mobility as the TSFs do, until later generations at least, which introduce hover units. Besides that, KMFs are ridiculously small targets in comparison, I'm pretty sure a Glasgow only comes up to half a TSF's leg. One could just latch on with Slash Harkens and shoot safely while the TSF has to try and shake it off. One of the uses for these is grappling hooks after all. Quite literally, KMFs are very angry bees in this case. The issue is getting through a TSF's armor.
I think you got the strike vanguard confused with the storm vanguard as they are the ones usually at the tip of a TSF formation, with Storm Vanguard One being the most important position in a squadron.
Truly one of the coolest mecha of all time. Puts the Variable Fighter from Macross to shame. Being based on and named after real world planes just makes em better.
As a Macross fan (sorry, I have to do this, I cant get it out of my silly head), I don't think that TSF's are that practical compare to Variable Fighters in many... many ways. Due to Humanity doesn't have any air superiority aside from TSF, No jets are flying out to combat zone because of Lasers' BETA. I can list out many flaws that VFs have too, but I don't think that TSFs are any better. something that are equal between these two are - Fire control System is more or less on par with TSF, since these two series always fought against hoard of somethings. - Handling / Ergonomics are surprisingly quite on par with TSF, but we are talking about a fighter size aircraft that can turn into a standard bipedal Mecha mid-flight so you have to make sure the sudden shift of G-Force doesn't hit and blackout the pilot mid-fight. that is where the similarity ends for TSF and VF - Compare to the TSF, VFs much are more maneuverable, which is something TSFs are far behind. Fast and Agile, while TSF are literally fighting gravity itself to stay airborne, and are more than akin to dodge an incoming laser with east. - Weaponry are not even the issues for them either, almost every fighters use the same universal armaments that can be more or less effective than the one TSF are using. But having many many munitions used across mechs are a logistical nightmare. but all of the above doesn't justified the setting they take place in, Macross is going interplanetary and stars, Muv-Luv is a fight for human survival.
@@activatewindows4685 Current TSF you see is 2nd and 3rd gen. Later on once BETA expelled from Earth, TSF evolved from fighting in Earth gravity to zero gravity to take back the moon equipped with energy weapons which is the 4th gen . It the 7th & especially 8th gen Tactical Space Fighter that might be comparable to your VFs. Try search Muv Luv TSF wiki to know more.
If you knew how OP are the VFs, BETA would never get landed on Earth. If BETA Carriers get intercepted early / on space(even the VF-1 can), the threat is almost non-existent. (Even in Muv-Luv Universe, SHADOW system was developed for that puropse, but, too late). TSFs needs transport via land, sea or space (via orbital launch) to the theater of operations. VFs just go anywhere on the planet without any assistance. So, no. VFs are good, even to put a hard fight to BETAs if for some retarded reason are left to grow enough to resist.
I've only just found this setting, and I must say it looks to be an amazing war to imagine and theorise/speculate about. Oh and while the mechs are neat, can we appreciate the logistics of this universe for a moment? They must go through an ungodly amount of ammunition in that endless war, so I'd say whatever organization/role it is who are managing logistics and manufacturing are the real heroes of this world.
A big reason y TSFs use caseless rounds is to conserve resources. Counterattacks against the BETA, in a major way, are far and VERY few in between. Because any major offensive will require ungodly amounts of manpower and resources, and if victory cannot be assured beyond a measure of doubt, it leaves mankind in a defensive war being ground down slowly but surely by the BETA and their endless hordes.
I still wonder how humanity’s war with the beta ends. What I last remember is that they were successful at Operation Ouka but there isn’t anything else I could find
the alternative codex says they started destroying hives in conventional assaults after 2003 (operation sledgehammer, european reclamation) but we probably won't learn more unless Integrate comes out
honestly i like how by the 8th generation they act more like advanced gundams...... I mean, portable anti ship laz guns a kozuki shield and short range warp jump. Wtf gimme some food and imma live in that thing
@@aizseeker3622 They, basically never do, to be honest. Nearly all reasons for having them, can be reasoned against. Please don't get me wrong, I love mechs but from an engineering, logistical and functional standpoint, they are problematic.
@@Boseeinsteinshake What other design that you could think of to fulfill its roles since you think its problematic in every way? it needs to be all terrain, 3D maneuverability, adaptive in combat, fast and agile at low altitudes, Can fit the role of a tank and a fighter jet. Given a fictional near-unlimited compact power source.
@@RhazOfRheos Okay, let's take the TSF as an example. it has already vectored thrust, strong enough to give it full VTOL capacity. The legs are meant to enable the machine to move on the ground, but is is so precise in its movements ir can literally scoot along inches from the ground, using the jets alone. Now there is the explanation of the limited jet fuel and the legs as an alternate mode of transportation, BUT if it did not have those legs to leu around to begin with, it would be lighter- much so indead, since legs means servo motors of a kind, internal structure, MUCH more surface that needs to be armored Get rid of the legs, have a much smaller target, save lots of fuel, use the thrusters alone and you are one step away from a mecha and one step closer to a funtional war machine.
@@Boseeinsteinshake The legs functions more than an another mode for transportation and fuel efficiency (major factor). Those thrusters are meant to complement the legs maneuverability, not replace it. Meaning, the legs are the one that give the thrusters major rotations and balance. TSFs can function pretty well without thrusters, but it cant do so without legs. we see they actually implement what you said on the type XG Sasunoo because maneuverability isn't its main focus. Removing the legs will prevent any sudden stops or movement from it. Inertia will kicked in and you need more thrusters to counteract that. Added to that, it cannot be grounded and functional at the same time. Not to mentioned stealthy and reactive. It will be no different than a fighter jet at that point. A crash and burn scenario and easy target for the Betas laser units.
Something that annoys me is that the lore never mention how many TSFs were build or are in active service (And the Numbers of BETA is a Wild Mass Guessing too)
Thats like asking how many soldiers are deployed today in real life. You would be very, VERY hard pressed to find an accurate number. That being said anime wise you can average it if you pay attention to every use and information.. -G
If you have to guess, every nation has at least 1 or 2 total regiments of TSFs at most. That is roughly at maximum 300 units more or less. The lore itself intentionally vagues this info because in reality in this losing war (in Unlimited version at least) TSFs are being constantly produced to whatever the remaining resources the nation has and how rapidly their loss on the battlefield which leads to Alternative V project to be prioritized and in the end resulting in a bad ending of said version of the universe. I am also curious to as how many TSFs were build and in active service but I had to do more research first and the information we have for now are very scarce (let alone this niche interest of the franchise in the first place).
This was a really good rundown! Nice job. Is there some sort of in lore explanation as to how the TSFs came to be in the 1970s or is it one of those "This is a mech show don't think about it" kind of scenarios? The series takes place in the 1970s so the tech to make TSFs happen shouldn't exist and yet here they are. A handful of mech series like Gundam or Armored Core have an explanation of some kind but from what I've experienced that isn't necessarily the norm, even among Real Robot series. As a side note if TFSs can be deployed from orbit, what's stopping the deployment of some sort of satellite that can fire weapons of mass destruction at the BETA? At the very least something to provide overwatch. I know launching weapons of mass destruction into space is illegal in real life but against the BETA, desperate times call for desperate measures.
Ill ask around as im not sure,but as far as i personally can surmise,the difference in timelines to real life and the need for exo skeketons for the moon were i believe the definitive precursers. As for the realism in this not sure either for 1970's As for orbital weapons they exist in various forms for different reasons..such as outer defence and interception (vague to avoid spoilers) but weapons of mass destruction arnt exactly always viable and their use is a proponent of part of the overarching storyline. And The laser class BETA would also intercept some in all likelyhood. And humanity is already stretching resources ,as well as i think theres human conflict matters which attest ti your comlarison to real life. Theres a culmination of factors,ill have to look into more again but you can also attribute it to "cool mecha story" lol. However ill add this to address and or answer in detail when i or we can! -G
@thealternativeproject I used weapons of mass destruction like nukes as an example since that's what most people will probably think of. If the BETA can shoot nukes launched from orbit then that would be a no go since a nuke detonating in the atmosphere would be REALLY bad. There are other options though such as the "Rods from God" which are 20 feet tall one foot in diameter tungsten rods that are dropped at about 10 times the speed of sound and hit immense power. Also, the video mentioned TSFs being deployed from orbit, how can they get to the ground safe but a weapon of some kind would get shot down? Are the TSFs being deploy into an area without laser class BETA?
@@TheAccursedHunter01 generally superweapons like that take alot of resources and so on. One reason fir nukes is a clean war,as well as other reasons that are spoilers. But i dont have an definitive answer for that, even tungsten rods from orbit. Additionally i think the resources are instead used for the orbital diver corps (TSFs deployed from orbit) So TSFs deployed from orbit are onboard shuttles carrying re-entry shells that a TSF resides in. It is tough enough to withstand orbital re-entry and temporarily ,the BETA's laser fire. (As anti laser measures and heat coating exists) like AL munitions (anti laser missiles,shells etc that are designed to be intercepted or if not,deliver kinetic force damage. The AL munitions disperse heavy metal particles dampening laser effects) the re-entry shells are designed similarly besides carrying TSFs on deployment and can be used as saturation bombing. Orbital divers always deploy ontop of BETA hives/hoardes. They rarely live past their 3rd drop however. -G
@@thealternativeproject You say nukes are avoided for a clean war (to an extent, fair) however that sort of falls apart for me considering G Bombs get used. Nukes can make an area uninhabitable for a time but G Bombs ruin land permanently in some cases. That and nukes have more range from what I've seen and if there's a way to make laser resistant equipment and missiles, nukes should be an option at the very least. I'm assuming the big reason why G Bombs are used is that they have a field to defend against laser fire so that by itself seems to make G Bombs an obvious choice. Then again G Bombs and their associated materials/phenomena are still mysterious in how they work and what they do while we have a good idea of what a nuke can do. As a side note, Japanese TSFs such as the Gekishin are refurbished specifically to use melee weapons essentially. Instead of a sword, why not use this type of specification to carry an extra/large weapon on the back of the TSF or some sort of ammo pack for extra ammunition to be used by that TSF and potentially it's allies? Is this sort of thing already done for other nations and Japan has their own preferred style of combat? I ask because getting in close quarters with BETA sounds like a terrible idea, unless this is a way to perform optimally should melee combat be required?
This comment is kinda spoiler heavy lore wise but this answers your question if you really just want the answers to your question so bad: The TSFs came to be after the first encounter of the BETAs on the moon, this is in parallel to our real world's US landing on the moon in 1969 in which also were one of the first exoskeleton mechanized frame was deployed at that time by NASA. The rest continues as was in this video as the research and development of said technology accelerates. The lore of Muv Luv itself upon TSF advances mirrors how real life jet fighters were in real life, or at least inspired from it. Also in the lore they do deployed some orbital satellite defense systems during the First Lunar War in 1967 -1973, it was called the SHADOW program, which consists of 3 components: the lunar orbit surveillance satellite network, an early-stage nuclear launch platform at Lagrange 1, and a final interception line made up of a group of nuclear attack satellites in Earth orbit. This is however proven to be ineffective since the SHADOW system only manages to detect and somehow prevented a BETA hive core launched from the BETA hive on the moon (and in the lore archives states that they don't even sure if it is) or was something else entirely remains debatable till now. The problem with deploying more orbital defense structures then on is with the introduction of the BETA laser-class strain during the emergence of the very first BETA hive on Earth, called the The Primary Objective or the Kashgar hive since it landed on Kashgar, north of China in 1973. This renders humanity to shift their focus on the ground instead, thus realized any form of aerial vehicle or assault useless. But that doesn't mean that humanity has totally lose entirely of the airspace since luckily, most of the BETA hives prior to 2002 in the lore are mostly located at the Asian and European continents but not the American continent. This is where all the major surface to orbit operations are being done including the biggest of them all: project Alternative V. In the Unlimited lore, this was basically a large orbital shuttle to take refuge of last of human population to the space. Also that this point the SHADOW system of data surveillance & intercept satellites were vastly improved, allowing for high risk operations such the HSST shuttles and orbital drop TSF assaults specifically aimed at destorying a BETA hive. The only problem is, at least in the Unlimited lore the Alternative V projects its resources mainly for the creation of G - bombs of all other efforts. In Alternative lore instead, was the early discovery of energy based weapons and force fields from G - elements found in BETA hives, in which developed into a single superweapon called the Valkyrie (then the Susanoo) which leads to the first victory against the BETA in Operation Ouka in 2002. Imagine that much of an advancement of only 30 years estimate, which is such a short time period which is realistic IMO.
May I ask why they didn't make a new jet that give warning (or make evasive maneuvers) when a laser class have a lock on them? I'm new to this anime and mostly watch anime that interest me so I don't focus much on story
1) By the time you've got the early warning system being heard, you're basically going be dead in seconds anyway. This also applies to the TSFs themselves as you see in the anime. You CANNOT outmaneuver a lightning fast energy projectile no matter how skillful you are at evading since a ray of death will just "swipe" into your direction easily. 2) TSFs were made to operate near ground at all times and are easier to navigate between hovering over obstacles and swift movement across the battlefield. Their highly agile nature makes it the most and the only way to counter BETA invasions despite costing a battalion of main battle tanks that does nothing more that a bunch of "mealboxes" when hoards of tank-class BETAs closes in pops out the turret of a tank to feed in the crew.
@@thealternativeproject touche my Friend this is there you are right and what is the Reason i love the Wal mart Mobile Suits to much they have the perfect blend of Syfy and Realism yet evertime i see a TSF i compare them to Mobile Suits
Banagher has no issues against TSFs. Considering his moral compass, he'd *help* TSFs instead. If you like headbutting that much, feel free to do so against a mongoose. Thanks.
Sorry, what do you mean? if you are asking about the source material for our explaining of the universe content, that would be the wiki(which summarises almost all media and such.) AND the digital codex (on Steam ill link below) is our bible lol. However would be remiss to not mention the various animes and VNs, and consulting our team /devoted fans also plays a pivotal part in our ability to present. A LOT of media is available in English. Not all such as TSFIA , Schwarzmarken(VN), and others (which leave a lot of annoying gaps to try and fill that even codex an such doesnt help with) hope this helps! store.steampowered.com/app/1251940/MuvLuv_Alternative_CODEX/ -G
The ammunition is caseless so im not sure if theres a spring per say. Additionally weapons development was accelerated tenfold prior and by 2001. In universe it makes sense to a degree..additionally the codex/wiki explains in high detail. This will be a good topic for future video though
To be honest if the can equip those rifles on giant robots, why can't they make a tank with similar gun instead of shit tanks they got. The way it looks like it's as if they just left the army behind. Not to mention it took them like what, 30 years to make a TSF machinegun?
@@jerryalbus1492 you mean todays MBT,LAVs ,IFVs and APCs? Along with assorted artillery? And gepards. The military hasnt been left behind and it took 30 years to make next gen TSFs but they did field 36mm soon after f4's debut -G
@@jerryalbus1492 >a tank with similar gun instead of shit tanks they got. A tank can't jump. An average BETA horde would just trample over them. Main role of TSF is to clear the way for standard infantry and armored divisions and eliminating Laser class for bombardment as well as handle hive infiltration which is basically a giant ant underground ant hive. Neither a standard armored vehicle or a gunship would really fulfill those roles.
@@jerryalbus1492in 30 years , the only developing weapon platforms aside from TSFs, were "tiny" exosqueletons. The rest of the armies still use Cold-war era weapons , ammo and equipment. Yup.😅
Is there a possibility that the earth's climate and ecosystem being disturbed due to the sheer amount of flora and fauna being destroyed as a result of BETA mining activies be a factor that may put humans in disadvantage?
Will get back to you on that,i dont think ive seen that addressed (i havent looked at codex n such in detail for a lil bit)/me personally havent thought about it. edit as of 7/11/23 cannot tell you as of yet lol -G
In regards to human conflict, there is a lot of it, infighting and all. You might like the unlimited timeline (covered mostly in the unfinished VN series called "The Day After" set before Alternative. Where the war with the BETA is still the backdrop but there is loads more human-on-human conflict. (And stuff i didn't even expect to see which is kinda funny) In addition to Total Eclipses (vn and anime versions) conflicts with other factions and such. IMO Muv Luv is a series where almost anyone could potentially hop on and enjoy their niche despite the whole story direction. Additionally, when some projects are done you could see a rise in that avenue. -G
Why couldn't you just put what a TSF is in the description. I found this video randomly and abbreviations are annoying. Just explain it already at first then just use the abbreviation...
@@user-bk8dq4ys1u i can attest to this we used the term and a summary before just using "TSF" i thought maybe he wanted to read rather then watch perhaps or something,that being said i think a general summary in description wouldnt hurt -G
Care to elaborate? The universe has alot of holes for sure (one being my personal gripe which is data on COSEAN) but i cant really say incomptence was a factor anywhere. P.s no rudeness intended. Was just curious! -G
@@thealternativeproject a lot of other properties are guilty of this, but one of my biggest gripes is the "8 minutes of death" thing, you'd think after several decades, that if someone bothered to look into pilot deaths to find the correlation they'd notice how many died after 8 minutes, and you'd think military brass would train that idea out of their soldiers if it got so many killed. Another is the development of the TSF, if you build a machine, standardizing it, then somehow everyone you stick in it has an issue with the machine... it's not pilot error, that's a designer incompetence issue.
"The 'Eight Minutes of Death' is referred to in the same manner as the Twenty-Minuters of the First World War. Tactical Surface Fighters are cutting edge equipment, and while training against other humans and simulated training is provided, these are a poor substitute for actual combat conditions. Just as in the First World War many pilots were risking their lives piloting their aircraft in battle and with unknown variables a constant factor, TSF combat has its own unique challenges both doctrinal and individual. Indeed, many pilots could excel in the simulations only to crumble under actual battlefield conditions. Individual pilot psychology under conditions is an unknown variable, and the 'Eight Minutes of Death' is regarded as much as a baptism of fire as it is a superstition. As to the TSF development itself, allow us to clarify a point - true standardization of TSF components and parts did not really start until the third generation of TSF models, as each nation individually developed their own models either from scratch or from reverse-engineering from existing designs loaned. Differences in processes by nationality as well as urgency led to differing initial standards and differences in design philosophy, which are as of the third generation only now starting to be adjusted with an internal standardization in mind. Yes, one could argue designer incompetence. By the same token, one could also argue that design refinement occurs as actual combat data comes forth and is provided upwards to design staff, which is shown in increased survival averages for each successive generation." -Alt team WD@@commiegundam9066
@@thealternativeproject my problem with the "eight minutes of death" isn't that it's a military superstition that exists, but that it's a superstition that PERSISTS. the fact that it has been brought up in multiple installments is my issue, military superstitions don't really persist for several decades. military superstitions tend to spread from grunts to other grunts, rumors or hearsay with some basis in reality, also a lot of superstitions are trained out of soldiers before they hit the frontlines(especially of said superstition is detrimental 9 times out of 10). I guess my issue is that it's the only notable superstition, while it would make more sense that more positive or harmless ones would more likely persist. also the idea that veteran pilots would spread it is kinda dumb, "ah yes, let's get fledgling fellow pilots killed so there'll be less of us, and pray that the ones who died didn't have good potential". on the point of tsf design, yeah that makes sense, to a certain extent it is designer incompetence, but also a hint of trial by fire(or more accurately the lack of it)..
Honestly these TSFs Models are too big and it's an easy target's for laser class. The only Mechs design I like in my opinion are Knightmare Frame from Code Geass.
@@thealternativeprojectno h8 from me, but the creator of Muv Luv went over the top in some aspects . Oh, and lets not forget the "rushed finale" that ML:Alternative got. 😅 Some fans believe now that âge is in its last days...
We got wrong the Strike and Storm Vanguard roles reversed! Our apologies on that one guys!
So to correct-
Storm vanguard is the role dedicated to being infront of the squadron to keep oncoming enemy forces off the rest of the unit.
Loadout consists generally of-
● 1x 36mm assault cannons with 120mm cannon.
● 2x PB super carbon swords
● 2x PB super carbon knives
●supplemental armour
Strike vanguard- opting for more Assault cannons then melee,it is basically in everyway similar to storm vanguard,keeping the enemy off the main squadron units. However they reside behind Stormvanguard TSFs.
Loadout consists of-
● 2x 36mm Assault Cannons with 120mm cannons.
●2x PB super carbon swords
●2x PB super carbon knives.
(Information derived from codex/wiki)
@thealternativeproject what was the techno music used? at 13:00
@@davidlee3499 not sure,ill get back to you on that!
-G
I really love how Total Eclipse is mostly just dedicated to making one mech. Great vid as always.
Really is a outlier there in a great way.
THIS IS DUMB THEY NEED TO MAKE MCHIEN WITHOUT PILOTS
@@truthoftheuniverse4179 what.
@@truthoftheuniverse4179 what
@@thealternativeproject THEY NEED TO MAKE MACHIENS WITHOUT PILTOS
It’s cool that Americans prioritize long range to the point of not having a sword, like how they did irl with the f-4 not having an internal gun and only relying on missiles for long range because the top brass during early Vietnam war believed the dogfight was dead, I LOVE THIS FRICKING UNIVERSE ITS SO COOL
i did not know that IRL lol,and oh my guy it gets so much better! checkout Yamamoto mech battles in our profile he details many more TSFs and battles etc!
-G
though fear not we will do spific TSF videos as well.
Thank you! Someone else noticed it too! I thought nobody would ever mention how this same behavior happened in real life military aviation history
The dogfight was dead the majority of air-to-air kills in Vietnam War we're done with missiles the most successful Phantom variant the f4j never had a gun
Even then the F4 didn't have a gun in the first place because it was originally a naval interceptor designed to shoot down high altitude bombers
the thing i like about TSFs is that they looks similar to armored cores gen 4
I wonder how an ac6 mech like ibas hal would fair in this world. As coral energy can sustain Meshines for years.
@@zarafex-0923 just give me a gen 4 or gen 6 AC and this whole alien invasion will be over in no time
@@peachyG Are gen 4 that strong? Weapon wize far i can see the people in this anime are only using kinetic or explosive weapons and hand to hand non energy melee. As per mobility ac6 mechs has alot more to offer as far as i can see.
@@zarafex-0923 gen 6 ACs, as compared to gen 4 NEXTs, are easier to pilot and are generally faster for a non-experienced pilot. but NEXTs have A LOT more speed potential, and, depending on your NEXT of choice and piloting skills, can achieve speeds of 2000kph+ while overboosting or chainboosting (gen 6 ACs have an average of 300-500 on the light side of things, while NEXTs start off at 200 and go up to 600 on average). they're also bigger than the average AC at 18 meters, while AC6 ACs are about 10-12. additionally, they run on Kojima particles, which basically gives them an endless power source (with the caveat being they irradiate everything everywhere they go) and also giving them a constant "energy" shield (primal armor). tbf, gen 6 ACs are the second strongest in the series after NEXTs, but I reckon I could definitely fuck up a NEXT piloting a gen 6 with not much effort.
it all depends on the pilot's raw skill, such as when a gen 5 AC (weakest in the series, made out of scrap metal, slow, tiny at 5 meters) defeated a NEXT piloted by the best damn pilot who had ever lived in VD's ending.
@@zarafex-0923gen 4s have a ridculous amount of energy in them, allowing for a neigh impenetrable shield called primal armor, infinite assault boost and power dashes(which are canonnicaly up to 3000 km/h), all kojima energy weaponry is usually ten times stronger than their coral and normal counterparts, kojima cannons can probably oneshot the surface part of the hive if targeted right, remember that it can be fired immideately after being shot, unlike the huge sussynoo robot, which held similar destructive and defensive capabilities.
Armored core gen 4s also would probably actually reach laser class in mere minutes, dashing so fast that BETA strains who defend the lasers wouldnt even have time to react and intercept on the ground level.
Tho the kojima radiation is rabid, just standing near a passive gen 4 AC could kill you, not talking about and overboosting one, or even worse near a force armor explosion, which was said to contaminate everything in a 10-20km radius horizontally. So in the end, eurasia would still be an irradiated wasteland.
Gen 5 and 6 are significantly weaker then gen 4s, also possibly weaker than last gen TSFs.
It's always great to see the many different designs, loadouts, and strategies used by each nations TSFs, a very effective weapon against the BETA that continues to improve in several distinct ways.
Exactly our thoughts! In the future we will absolute detail everything
My only gripe is how they still fight each other, or for some allied nations, not have enough experience fighting the BETA (I'm looking at you Africa)
>TSFs
>effective weapon against BETA
Choose one.
@@matiasfpm they're mutually exclusive
or *somewhat* effective. even then, it will be after some tsf generations.
Imagine if humanity could deploy weapon similar to laser species. Then you may need weapons similar to TSFs to counter.
I literally just ran out of your content to watch and was starting a rewatch of 12/5, and then this shows up! Keep up the amazing work!
I've never heard of Muv Luv until today, but this is a great series!
Mech and tactics, yes. Politics and drama is meh
I like the general concept of TSF (and fr it's the only time where mechs make sense) but I hate how the conventional vehicles and infantries are trivialized in Schwarzesmarken and Total Eclipse.
In both animes tanks are useless even though they fire 100+ mm rounds, and why not just swap the turret with AA autocannons?
Infantries are miserable, in Schwarzesmarken they only use AK and RPG, no 50 cal, no AA battery, only Yui knows to use a Barrett
Definitely something that needed to be shown more in both anime. Especially because tanks and AA guns are very effective against them. And to this day, the anime have not adapted the infantry exoskeletons the ground forces use
There's not enough show and a little too much tale in the series. But, keep in mind these are combined arms operations. Like in Total Eclipse and the Soviet Kamchatka defense line employing tanks, howitzers, bombers, and TSFs Same with Operation 21st, as armored battalions land with TSF units.
Yeah it's annoying that tanks 120mm don't work while TSF 120mm work somehow
Gonna be honest the timeline of TSF Development got split out again between the Unlimited and Alternative timeline. Unlimited is no plan due to AltV, but TSF Development in Alternative after Ouka got peak again, especially the Super Phantom Program
After Alt IV's success it certainly did..the codex has so many and exolarity more so!
There was a time when the US flirted with a melee oriented TSF, the YF23, though it lost out to the F22.
Woulda been beautiful to see its appearance honestly lol
Funny how it's the literal opposite on the real ATF program, the YF-23 suppose to be a missile truck firing from long range
Which would make sense, since US pivot to Pacific now.
American military having a focus on long range combat is so spot on eith real life american military tactics, the german tsf's having those cool hyper-specialized laser kill squads is a fascinating concept. I learned about thiw universe just an hour ago and i need more!!
Chrckout Yamamoto in our profile links he has a plethora more! With us and him planning many more videos to come for our respective channels! Apart from that the anime and VNs are your best bet!
-G
@@thealternativeproject thx for the resources! This would be the first vn i play, gonna definitely get some of the other games too!
@@DangleBlampy please see our video on 'what is muv luv first though' as it denotes the muv luv extra and unlimited titles of VNs are paramount to enjoying the full story!
-G
@@thealternativeproject will do 😎👍
TSFs are one of my favorites in all mechas. A realistic Military technology. A tool that useful for fighting BETA and Other TSFs. Its not OP that one TSF can change the battlefield. But if use correctly. It can do anything. The doctrine of combine arms warfare is really though in designing the TSFs. A Design that can be use in Air, Land, and Sea? (The day after)
Thats so true! however the type 00 and IRG units in TDA kinda hard solo'd the BETA forces to an extent lol. And that TSFs are probably one of the more grounded in reality mechas out there and its use in modern warfare is so interesting!
Kinda reminds me of how Macross uses it's variable fighters.
Honestly the Most realistic Military versatile mech are Knightmare Frame from Code Geass.
Like what? I don't know much about CG and it mechs.
I prefer the Armored Core Mechs honestly, mainly the PS2 era ones
AC6 got me in a Muv Luv mood. I should reread it soon...
Thank you Professor for this TSF class. I feel like I'm learning the basics of TSFs for deployment in the future!
thats the goal! when we figure stuff out you will see plethora more!
-G
TSF is in my opinion the perfect mobile armoured unit.
Definitely,more grounded in reality so to speak compared to other universes in our opinion lol.
@@thealternativeproject most of tsf technology is just modern technology with a bit of twist and the only unrealistic fact about it is the ability for extended flight but I can see the TSF doing short distance flight. Thrust over aerodynamic!
@@magellali1623 indeed but i honestly wonder if the jump units are somehow using magic, because to hold that weight and propel a TSF without a flaw in its movement is kinda funny.
The jump units are the most unrealistic as it needs sudden strong thrusts of power unlike conventional jet propulsion that requires constant stream of thrust. TSFs size alone can make it twice or thrice heavier than an MBT (T-80 and such) and to manuever the TSF at the speed the JUs could, it would need insane thrust to weight rations which would be impossible in conventional engines.
Rather than the mechs, the true technological marvel in Muvluv, or perhaps every sci-fi with mounted boosters, are the boosters/engines themselves
I always thought of Muv-Luv as just another cringy rom-com, but the enemies are actually more disturbing looking than terraformars, and the way you tell the lore and the intricaties of how their state of the world and insights into their militaries works, it reminds me of other great people that do this kind of content like Kakarot197 with Gundam, Jethild with C&C, and Armoredcorelore dude (that's his actual name lol), they're all great and you too of course, because i love hearing about sci-fi military and somewhat practical scientific theories of random stuff, good content bro.
I tought Muv-Luv was originally a Rom-Com. It was a Dating Sim VN/Game. Hence its strange Title. The Alien design looks disturbing because... well, I think you know the answer.
The Alien Invasion was the back story of where most men and older people died from War Draft, you play as the Main Character with the Goal of dating all the Female Characters in the Military Academy. The Aliens were never really part of the main plot.
But somehow the Franchiese took off and expanded into a Gundam like series.
@@steak5599 This is 100% wrong. It's obvious when you replay Extra that the VN was always meant to be a hard sci-fi war story, and Extra is meticulously crafted to introduce all the characters and foreshadow most of the important plot points that happen in Alternative. There is no way they went: "Oh, let's make a rom-com and then reuse the characters in a sci-fi setting", it was completely intentional from the start.
ALTERNATIVE SPOILERS
Meiya having a sister and that sister being the Shogun, Ayamine being involved with the leader of the rebel plot, Takeru travelling back to the Extra timeline in order to get info out of Extra Yuuko, and having encountered Sumika. There's even more nuanced examples of foreshadowing, but these are the ones that always come to mind.
If Code Geass and Muv-Luv merged, I think it's fair that The Holy Britannian Empire would lose from either BETAs or The UN in my opinion.
Conveniently enough, KMFs are designed to deal with conventional machines of war, direct counter to armor and stuff. I would imagine that they would be unexpectedly effective against TSFs as the Tactical Surface Fighters are based off standard doctrine modified against BETA.
That said, the BETA would most certainly be an issue, as KMFs don't have the same amount of hovering mobility as the TSFs do, until later generations at least, which introduce hover units.
Besides that, KMFs are ridiculously small targets in comparison, I'm pretty sure a Glasgow only comes up to half a TSF's leg. One could just latch on with Slash Harkens and shoot safely while the TSF has to try and shake it off. One of the uses for these is grappling hooks after all.
Quite literally, KMFs are very angry bees in this case. The issue is getting through a TSF's armor.
@@pyroball602 Good argument
I think you got the strike vanguard confused with the storm vanguard as they are the ones usually at the tip of a TSF formation, with Storm Vanguard One being the most important position in a squadron.
God dangit,we meticiously went over the script like 100 times too,thank you ! Will make it known in a pinned comment shortly!
@@thealternativeproject No worries
Thanks for material! I watch only anime (all 4 sezone) and high enjoy your world explanation. Great work
Truly one of the coolest mecha of all time. Puts the Variable Fighter from Macross to shame.
Being based on and named after real world planes just makes em better.
The Valkyrie was based on the F-14 and named after the XB-70 Valkyrie bomber.
In Muv luv XB-70 also a fortress size mech as HI-MAERF project.
As a Macross fan (sorry, I have to do this, I cant get it out of my silly head), I don't think that TSF's are that practical compare to Variable Fighters in many... many ways.
Due to Humanity doesn't have any air superiority aside from TSF, No jets are flying out to combat zone because of Lasers' BETA. I can list out many flaws that VFs have too, but I don't think that TSFs are any better.
something that are equal between these two are
- Fire control System is more or less on par with TSF, since these two series always fought against hoard of somethings.
- Handling / Ergonomics are surprisingly quite on par with TSF, but we are talking about a fighter size aircraft that can turn into a standard bipedal Mecha mid-flight so you have to make sure the sudden shift of G-Force doesn't hit and blackout the pilot mid-fight.
that is where the similarity ends for TSF and VF
- Compare to the TSF, VFs much are more maneuverable, which is something TSFs are far behind. Fast and Agile, while TSF are literally fighting gravity itself to stay airborne, and are more than akin to dodge an incoming laser with east.
- Weaponry are not even the issues for them either, almost every fighters use the same universal armaments that can be more or less effective than the one TSF are using. But having many many munitions used across mechs are a logistical nightmare.
but all of the above doesn't justified the setting they take place in, Macross is going interplanetary and stars, Muv-Luv is a fight for human survival.
@@activatewindows4685 Current TSF you see is 2nd and 3rd gen. Later on once BETA expelled from Earth, TSF evolved from fighting in Earth gravity to zero gravity to take back the moon equipped with energy weapons which is the 4th gen .
It the 7th & especially 8th gen Tactical Space Fighter that might be comparable to your VFs. Try search Muv Luv TSF wiki to know more.
If you knew how OP are the VFs, BETA would never get landed on Earth.
If BETA Carriers get intercepted early / on space(even the VF-1 can), the threat is almost non-existent. (Even in Muv-Luv Universe, SHADOW system was developed for that puropse, but, too late).
TSFs needs transport via land, sea or space (via orbital launch) to the theater of operations. VFs just go anywhere on the planet without any assistance.
So, no. VFs are good, even to put a hard fight to BETAs if for some retarded reason are left to grow enough to resist.
I've only just found this setting, and I must say it looks to be an amazing war to imagine and theorise/speculate about.
Oh and while the mechs are neat, can we appreciate the logistics of this universe for a moment?
They must go through an ungodly amount of ammunition in that endless war, so I'd say whatever organization/role it is who are managing logistics and manufacturing are the real heroes of this world.
A big reason y TSFs use caseless rounds is to conserve resources. Counterattacks against the BETA, in a major way, are far and VERY few in between. Because any major offensive will require ungodly amounts of manpower and resources, and if victory cannot be assured beyond a measure of doubt, it leaves mankind in a defensive war being ground down slowly but surely by the BETA and their endless hordes.
I still wonder how humanity’s war with the beta ends. What I last remember is that they were successful at Operation Ouka but there isn’t anything else I could find
@@LeoMtz-ni2lb exolarity,and speculation i suppose. We'll see whenever integrate is a thing though likely.
-G
the alternative codex says they started destroying hives in conventional assaults after 2003 (operation sledgehammer, european reclamation) but we probably won't learn more unless Integrate comes out
Cool suits packed with waifu material pilots/Husbando.
honestly i like how by the 8th generation they act more like advanced gundams...... I mean, portable anti ship laz guns a kozuki shield and short range warp jump. Wtf gimme some food and imma live in that thing
we love it lol.
-G
The simple explanation for me is that *They're Armored Cores*
@@MrSkillIssue_90 but better lol
-G
@av3ry966 Probably wonder how lol. Its a whole can of worms on its own😅
-G
@av3ry966 lol
-G
As usually with giant mecha, TSFs make no sense, but are still awesome.
Depending on the enemy and environment they faced, it may make sense.
@@aizseeker3622 They, basically never do, to be honest. Nearly all reasons for having them, can be reasoned against.
Please don't get me wrong, I love mechs but from an engineering, logistical and functional standpoint, they are problematic.
@@Boseeinsteinshake What other design that you could think of to fulfill its roles since you think its problematic in every way? it needs to be all terrain, 3D maneuverability, adaptive in combat, fast and agile at low altitudes, Can fit the role of a tank and a fighter jet. Given a fictional near-unlimited compact power source.
@@RhazOfRheos Okay, let's take the TSF as an example. it has already vectored thrust, strong enough to give it full VTOL capacity. The legs are meant to enable the machine to move on the ground, but is is so precise in its movements ir can literally scoot along inches from the ground, using the jets alone.
Now there is the explanation of the limited jet fuel and the legs as an alternate mode of transportation, BUT if it did not have those legs to leu around to begin with, it would be lighter- much so indead, since legs means servo motors of a kind, internal structure, MUCH more surface that needs to be armored
Get rid of the legs, have a much smaller target, save lots of fuel, use the thrusters alone and you are one step away from a mecha and one step closer to a funtional war machine.
@@Boseeinsteinshake The legs functions more than an another mode for transportation and fuel efficiency (major factor). Those thrusters are meant to complement the legs maneuverability, not replace it. Meaning, the legs are the one that give the thrusters major rotations and balance. TSFs can function pretty well without thrusters, but it cant do so without legs. we see they actually implement what you said on the type XG Sasunoo because maneuverability isn't its main focus.
Removing the legs will prevent any sudden stops or movement from it. Inertia will kicked in and you need more thrusters to counteract that. Added to that, it cannot be grounded and functional at the same time. Not to mentioned stealthy and reactive. It will be no different than a fighter jet at that point. A crash and burn scenario and easy target for the Betas laser units.
happy 1k :)
Wha what when tf did we get this far? XD thank you so much!
-G
Looking forward about 00
RIP Mriia, my beloved
Is Impossible Not Recognize the Name/Title: Muv-Luv Alternative my friends. Thanks.
For answer mfers be like
Very Underrated.
love the usa army TSFS mechs god bless america
Something that annoys me is that the lore never mention how many TSFs were build or are in active service
(And the Numbers of BETA is a Wild Mass Guessing too)
Thats like asking how many soldiers are deployed today in real life. You would be very, VERY hard pressed to find an accurate number. That being said anime wise you can average it if you pay attention to every use and information..
-G
If you have to guess, every nation has at least 1 or 2 total regiments of TSFs at most. That is roughly at maximum 300 units more or less. The lore itself intentionally vagues this info because in reality in this losing war (in Unlimited version at least) TSFs are being constantly produced to whatever the remaining resources the nation has and how rapidly their loss on the battlefield which leads to Alternative V project to be prioritized and in the end resulting in a bad ending of said version of the universe.
I am also curious to as how many TSFs were build and in active service but I had to do more research first and the information we have for now are very scarce (let alone this niche interest of the franchise in the first place).
Thank you
This was a really good rundown! Nice job.
Is there some sort of in lore explanation as to how the TSFs came to be in the 1970s or is it one of those "This is a mech show don't think about it" kind of scenarios? The series takes place in the 1970s so the tech to make TSFs happen shouldn't exist and yet here they are. A handful of mech series like Gundam or Armored Core have an explanation of some kind but from what I've experienced that isn't necessarily the norm, even among Real Robot series.
As a side note if TFSs can be deployed from orbit, what's stopping the deployment of some sort of satellite that can fire weapons of mass destruction at the BETA? At the very least something to provide overwatch. I know launching weapons of mass destruction into space is illegal in real life but against the BETA, desperate times call for desperate measures.
Ill ask around as im not sure,but as far as i personally can surmise,the difference in timelines to real life and the need for exo skeketons for the moon were i believe the definitive precursers. As for the realism in this not sure either for 1970's
As for orbital weapons they exist in various forms for different reasons..such as outer defence and interception (vague to avoid spoilers) but weapons of mass destruction arnt exactly always viable and their use is a proponent of part of the overarching storyline. And The laser class BETA would also intercept some in all likelyhood. And humanity is already stretching resources ,as well as i think theres human conflict matters which attest ti your comlarison to real life. Theres a culmination of factors,ill have to look into more again but you can also attribute it to "cool mecha story" lol.
However ill add this to address and or answer in detail when i or we can!
-G
@thealternativeproject I used weapons of mass destruction like nukes as an example since that's what most people will probably think of. If the BETA can shoot nukes launched from orbit then that would be a no go since a nuke detonating in the atmosphere would be REALLY bad. There are other options though such as the "Rods from God" which are 20 feet tall one foot in diameter tungsten rods that are dropped at about 10 times the speed of sound and hit immense power. Also, the video mentioned TSFs being deployed from orbit, how can they get to the ground safe but a weapon of some kind would get shot down? Are the TSFs being deploy into an area without laser class BETA?
@@TheAccursedHunter01 generally superweapons like that take alot of resources and so on. One reason fir nukes is a clean war,as well as other reasons that are spoilers. But i dont have an definitive answer for that, even tungsten rods from orbit. Additionally i think the resources are instead used for the orbital diver corps (TSFs deployed from orbit)
So TSFs deployed from orbit are onboard shuttles carrying re-entry shells that a TSF resides in. It is tough enough to withstand orbital re-entry and temporarily ,the BETA's laser fire. (As anti laser measures and heat coating exists) like AL munitions (anti laser missiles,shells etc that are designed to be intercepted or if not,deliver kinetic force damage. The AL munitions disperse heavy metal particles dampening laser effects) the re-entry shells are designed similarly besides carrying TSFs on deployment and can be used as saturation bombing. Orbital divers always deploy ontop of BETA hives/hoardes. They rarely live past their 3rd drop however.
-G
@@thealternativeproject You say nukes are avoided for a clean war (to an extent, fair) however that sort of falls apart for me considering G Bombs get used. Nukes can make an area uninhabitable for a time but G Bombs ruin land permanently in some cases. That and nukes have more range from what I've seen and if there's a way to make laser resistant equipment and missiles, nukes should be an option at the very least. I'm assuming the big reason why G Bombs are used is that they have a field to defend against laser fire so that by itself seems to make G Bombs an obvious choice. Then again G Bombs and their associated materials/phenomena are still mysterious in how they work and what they do while we have a good idea of what a nuke can do.
As a side note, Japanese TSFs such as the Gekishin are refurbished specifically to use melee weapons essentially. Instead of a sword, why not use this type of specification to carry an extra/large weapon on the back of the TSF or some sort of ammo pack for extra ammunition to be used by that TSF and potentially it's allies? Is this sort of thing already done for other nations and Japan has their own preferred style of combat? I ask because getting in close quarters with BETA sounds like a terrible idea, unless this is a way to perform optimally should melee combat be required?
This comment is kinda spoiler heavy lore wise but this answers your question if you really just want the answers to your question so bad:
The TSFs came to be after the first encounter of the BETAs on the moon, this is in parallel to our real world's US landing on the moon in 1969 in which also were one of the first exoskeleton mechanized frame was deployed at that time by NASA. The rest continues as was in this video as the research and development of said technology accelerates. The lore of Muv Luv itself upon TSF advances mirrors how real life jet fighters were in real life, or at least inspired from it.
Also in the lore they do deployed some orbital satellite defense systems during the First Lunar War in 1967 -1973, it was called the SHADOW program, which consists of 3 components: the lunar orbit surveillance satellite network, an early-stage nuclear launch platform at Lagrange 1, and a final interception line made up of a group of nuclear attack satellites in Earth orbit. This is however proven to be ineffective since the SHADOW system only manages to detect and somehow prevented a BETA hive core launched from the BETA hive on the moon (and in the lore archives states that they don't even sure if it is) or was something else entirely remains debatable till now.
The problem with deploying more orbital defense structures then on is with the introduction of the BETA laser-class strain during the emergence of the very first BETA hive on Earth, called the The Primary Objective or the Kashgar hive since it landed on Kashgar, north of China in 1973. This renders humanity to shift their focus on the ground instead, thus realized any form of aerial vehicle or assault useless.
But that doesn't mean that humanity has totally lose entirely of the airspace since luckily, most of the BETA hives prior to 2002 in the lore are mostly located at the Asian and European continents but not the American continent. This is where all the major surface to orbit operations are being done including the biggest of them all: project Alternative V. In the Unlimited lore, this was basically a large orbital shuttle to take refuge of last of human population to the space. Also that this point the SHADOW system of data surveillance & intercept satellites were vastly improved, allowing for high risk operations such the HSST shuttles and orbital drop TSF assaults specifically aimed at destorying a BETA hive. The only problem is, at least in the Unlimited lore the Alternative V projects its resources mainly for the creation of G - bombs of all other efforts. In Alternative lore instead, was the early discovery of energy based weapons and force fields from G - elements found in BETA hives, in which developed into a single superweapon called the Valkyrie (then the Susanoo) which leads to the first victory against the BETA in Operation Ouka in 2002. Imagine that much of an advancement of only 30 years estimate, which is such a short time period which is realistic IMO.
Uufff....necesitaba esto en español traducido, muchisimas gracias,le debo a muvluv y a warhammer el desarrollo de mis pequeños pelotones de robots
I uh used google translate,im assuming it provided subs in spanish to a decent degree or something?
And your welcome mate.
-G
@@thealternativeproject tank you bro,this is very low rated by is site
war
war never changes
Oh yes lol.\
-G
1:17 are those little bitty eye lasers?
Yeah lol. Small strain of laser class mate.
-G
yooo i like your viedos keep going
Gonna do our best!
May I ask why they didn't make a new jet that give warning (or make evasive maneuvers) when a laser class have a lock on them? I'm new to this anime and mostly watch anime that interest me so I don't focus much on story
1) By the time you've got the early warning system being heard, you're basically going be dead in seconds anyway. This also applies to the TSFs themselves as you see in the anime. You CANNOT outmaneuver a lightning fast energy projectile no matter how skillful you are at evading since a ray of death will just "swipe" into your direction easily.
2) TSFs were made to operate near ground at all times and are easier to navigate between hovering over obstacles and swift movement across the battlefield. Their highly agile nature makes it the most and the only way to counter BETA invasions despite costing a battalion of main battle tanks that does nothing more that a bunch of "mealboxes" when hoards of tank-class BETAs closes in pops out the turret of a tank to feed in the crew.
@@bizklaustdeity3115 I see thanks for explaining!
Wal mart Mobile Suits to be exact
Wdym? xD imo they Better n more realistic then gundam my guy lol.
-G
@@thealternativeproject touche my Friend this is there you are right and what is the Reason i love the Wal mart Mobile Suits to much they have the perfect blend of Syfy and Realism yet evertime i see a TSF i compare them to Mobile Suits
@@thealternativeprojectCan't beat an Armored Core.
@@haihuynh8772 ? wha
-G
Unicorn gundam would tear apart the tsfs
Banagher has no issues against TSFs. Considering his moral compass, he'd *help* TSFs instead.
If you like headbutting that much, feel free to do so against a mongoose. Thanks.
@@OverseerMoti you make a good point, banagher would help them if the tsfs knew what it was he's piloting because they might just start shooting him
where do you get the info in english the page
Sorry, what do you mean? if you are asking about the source material for our explaining of the universe content, that would be the wiki(which summarises almost all media and such.) AND the digital codex (on Steam ill link below) is our bible lol. However would be remiss to not mention the various animes and VNs, and consulting our team /devoted fans also plays a pivotal part in our ability to present.
A LOT of media is available in English. Not all such as TSFIA , Schwarzmarken(VN), and others (which leave a lot of annoying gaps to try and fill that even codex an such doesnt help with)
hope this helps!
store.steampowered.com/app/1251940/MuvLuv_Alternative_CODEX/
-G
What was the track used at the end?
ua-cam.com/video/ekD0wWNX8N8/v-deo.html
Enjoy!
@@thealternativeproject
Much appreciated! 😊
Assault cannon magazines don't make no sense, i don't think such spring that can push that caliber up exist
The ammunition is caseless so im not sure if theres a spring per say. Additionally weapons development was accelerated tenfold prior and by 2001. In universe it makes sense to a degree..additionally the codex/wiki explains in high detail. This will be a good topic for future video though
To be honest if the can equip those rifles on giant robots, why can't they make a tank with similar gun instead of shit tanks they got.
The way it looks like it's as if they just left the army behind. Not to mention it took them like what, 30 years to make a TSF machinegun?
@@jerryalbus1492 you mean todays MBT,LAVs ,IFVs and APCs? Along with assorted artillery? And gepards. The military hasnt been left behind and it took 30 years to make next gen TSFs but they did field 36mm soon after f4's debut
-G
@@jerryalbus1492
>a tank with similar gun instead of shit tanks they got.
A tank can't jump. An average BETA horde would just trample over them. Main role of TSF is to clear the way for standard infantry and armored divisions and eliminating Laser class for bombardment as well as handle hive infiltration which is basically a giant ant underground ant hive. Neither a standard armored vehicle or a gunship would really fulfill those roles.
@@jerryalbus1492in 30 years , the only developing weapon platforms aside from TSFs, were "tiny" exosqueletons.
The rest of the armies still use Cold-war era weapons , ammo and equipment.
Yup.😅
Isn't there a BETA TSF?
There are 1 or 2
We dont talk about that abomination >_>
Discount gundams
Pluasible and believable compared to gundam though xD and not too much space magic.
I like gundam dont get me wrong but mate lol.
-G
Idiot
Is there a possibility that the earth's climate and ecosystem being disturbed due to the sheer amount of flora and fauna being destroyed as a result of BETA mining activies be a factor that may put humans in disadvantage?
Will get back to you on that,i dont think ive seen that addressed (i havent looked at codex n such in detail for a lil bit)/me personally havent thought about it.
edit as of 7/11/23 cannot tell you as of yet lol
-G
Only ever seen a clip where these mechs fight each other. Is the main story about fighting Aliens? Not as appealing anymore ngl
In regards to human conflict, there is a lot of it, infighting and all. You might like the unlimited timeline (covered mostly in the unfinished VN series called "The Day After" set before Alternative. Where the war with the BETA is still the backdrop but there is loads more human-on-human conflict. (And stuff i didn't even expect to see which is kinda funny) In addition to Total Eclipses (vn and anime versions) conflicts with other factions and such. IMO Muv Luv is a series where almost anyone could potentially hop on and enjoy their niche despite the whole story direction. Additionally, when some projects are done you could see a rise in that avenue.
-G
is this an anime?
Id advise watching our first video on muv luv. But in short yes but it started out as visual novels which go far deeper into the story.
Why couldn't you just put what a TSF is in the description. I found this video randomly and abbreviations are annoying. Just explain it already at first then just use the abbreviation...
Interesting feedback noted! Ill make the necessary adjustments asap! Apologies though mate.
@@user-bk8dq4ys1u i can attest to this we used the term and a summary before just using "TSF" i thought maybe he wanted to read rather then watch perhaps or something,that being said i think a general summary in description wouldnt hurt
-G
the designs are awesome and most of the fights in the animes are amazing. but the lore and general writing of muv luv is so hilariously incompetent
Care to elaborate? The universe has alot of holes for sure (one being my personal gripe which is data on COSEAN) but i cant really say incomptence was a factor anywhere. P.s no rudeness intended. Was just curious!
-G
@@thealternativeproject a lot of other properties are guilty of this, but one of my biggest gripes is the "8 minutes of death" thing, you'd think after several decades, that if someone bothered to look into pilot deaths to find the correlation they'd notice how many died after 8 minutes, and you'd think military brass would train that idea out of their soldiers if it got so many killed.
Another is the development of the TSF, if you build a machine, standardizing it, then somehow everyone you stick in it has an issue with the machine... it's not pilot error, that's a designer incompetence issue.
"The 'Eight Minutes of Death' is referred to in the same manner as the Twenty-Minuters of the First World War. Tactical Surface Fighters are cutting edge equipment, and while training against other humans and simulated training is provided, these are a poor substitute for actual combat conditions. Just as in the First World War many pilots were risking their lives piloting their aircraft in battle and with unknown variables a constant factor, TSF combat has its own unique challenges both doctrinal and individual. Indeed, many pilots could excel in the simulations only to crumble under actual battlefield conditions. Individual pilot psychology under conditions is an unknown variable, and the 'Eight Minutes of Death' is regarded as much as a baptism of fire as it is a superstition.
As to the TSF development itself, allow us to clarify a point - true standardization of TSF components and parts did not really start until the third generation of TSF models, as each nation individually developed their own models either from scratch or from reverse-engineering from existing designs loaned. Differences in processes by nationality as well as urgency led to differing initial standards and differences in design philosophy, which are as of the third generation only now starting to be adjusted with an internal standardization in mind. Yes, one could argue designer incompetence. By the same token, one could also argue that design refinement occurs as actual combat data comes forth and is provided upwards to design staff, which is shown in increased survival averages for each successive generation." -Alt team WD@@commiegundam9066
@@thealternativeproject my problem with the "eight minutes of death" isn't that it's a military superstition that exists, but that it's a superstition that PERSISTS. the fact that it has been brought up in multiple installments is my issue, military superstitions don't really persist for several decades. military superstitions tend to spread from grunts to other grunts, rumors or hearsay with some basis in reality, also a lot of superstitions are trained out of soldiers before they hit the frontlines(especially of said superstition is detrimental 9 times out of 10). I guess my issue is that it's the only notable superstition, while it would make more sense that more positive or harmless ones would more likely persist. also the idea that veteran pilots would spread it is kinda dumb, "ah yes, let's get fledgling fellow pilots killed so there'll be less of us, and pray that the ones who died didn't have good potential".
on the point of tsf design, yeah that makes sense, to a certain extent it is designer incompetence, but also a hint of trial by fire(or more accurately the lack of it)..
Honestly these TSFs Models are too big and it's an easy target's for laser class. The only Mechs design I like in my opinion are Knightmare Frame from Code Geass.
MulLuv Crap 😂
Best crap my dude
@@lelouche25 😆
Why?
-G
@@thealternativeprojectno h8 from me, but the creator of Muv Luv went over the top in some aspects .
Oh, and lets not forget the "rushed finale" that ML:Alternative got. 😅
Some fans believe now that âge is in its last days...
@@matiasfpm over the top?
As for the ending..yeah kinda but various things are in motion to remedy that from different avenues.
-G