EP 128 - As Weird as a Chicken Crying: AAP Statement on Pediatric Gender Transition w/ Julia Mason
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- “We are making strong recommendations based on weak evidence,” a statement from practicing pediatrician, Dr. Julia Mason, about the basis of gender affirming care, which is the model of care currently backed by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).
In this episode, Dr. Mason sits down with Sasha & Stella to discuss her relentless efforts towards charging the AAP to pursue a systematic review of the evidence behind gender affirming care. They discuss the series of events leading up to the AAP’s most recent article reaffirming their commitment to the affirmation model as laid out in the AAP’s policy statement published in 2018, but also announcing their authorization of a systematic review of the evidence. This decision on the part of the AAP comes long overdue in the wake of so many European organizations who have recently conducted their own reviews, all of which have resulted in abrupt shifts in the care protocols around gender transition.
Links:
NY Times article about the AAP's recent moves:
www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/he...
SEGM’s Spotlight
segm.org/news
Rafferty’s 2018 AAP Statement
publications.aap.org/pediatri...
Cantor Fact Checks the Rafferty Paper
www.jamescantor.org/uploads/6/...
WSJ Article
www.wsj.com/articles/doctors-...
The Cass Review | Interim Report - Independent Review of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People
cass.independent-review.uk/pu...
Genspect’s Open Letter to the AAP
genspect.org/an-open-letter-t...
Leor Sapir’s Article
www.wsj.com/articles/second-t...
AAP Reaffirms But Authorizes Systematic Review
publications.aap.org/aapnews/...
Opinion Supporting Gender Dysphoric Youth
www.aap.org/en/news-room/aap-...
2015 Transgender Survey
transequality.org/sites/defau...
"What Is a Woman?" with Dr. Michelle Forcier that Julia references in the interview
MattWalshBlog/sta...
Pre-Order When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents
whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/
Attend Our Live Event - When Kids Say They’re Trans: Weekend of Workshops | September 21-24, 2023
whenkidssaytheyretrans.com/we...
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Episode 6 - Gender Intervention: Treatment or Experiments?
• EPISODE 6 - Gender Int...
Episode 60 - Pioneers Series: We Contain Multitudes with Stephen Levine
• EPISODE 60 - Pioneers ...
Episode 88 - Gender: Philosophy, Institutions, and Policy w/ Leor Sapir
• EPISODE 88 - Gender: P...
Episode 114 - The Dutch Protocol: A Deprivation of Sexual Development with Julia Mason and Stephen Levine
• EP 114: The Dutch Prot...
Episode 116 - Identity Politics vs. The Pursuit of Knowledge with Dr. Michael Bailey
• EP 116 - Identity Poli...
The Dutch Studies Playlist
• The Dutch Studies
Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.
Watch us on UA-cam: / @widerlenspod
For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:
Sasha Ayad: inspiredteentherapy.com/paren...
Stella O’Malley: www.stellaomalley.com/parent-c...
Chapters
00:00 Show Open
00:34 Start of episode
01:50 Julia give backstory on the AAP and their statement on Gender Affirming Care
08:10 James Cantor Fact Checks the AAP
10:30 Julia starts asking questions within the AAP in 2019
14:55 Julia (and then others) submit a resolution to the AAP
24:00 The need for a systematic review of the evidence
29:20 Who could possibly be against looking at the evidence?
40:30 The AAP is now doing a review… Julia’s predictions
44:48 The AAP could be brought up as a defendant
47:23 thoughts for other physicians
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
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ReIME: rethinkime.org/
Genspect: genspect.org/
This just fills me with rage. The very people that are supposed to help us are failing us.
Five common flaws in pro-affirmation research/studies:
1. No control groups.
2. High loss to sample follow-up.
3. Subjective, participant-recorded data.
4. Small sample sizes.
5. Self-selected samples.
Self diagnoses
good summary - we'd add shaky grounds for the original theory of 'gender identity'
Exactly. It should be randomised, not selected. What an insult to statistics.
We actually have the receipts. Surveys. Studies, eyc
1. There are all kinds of things for which control groups are unethical. This is one.
But in a way we have a control group. All those poor kids and adults whose lives were ruined and made less by not having affirming therapies. Including the left handers
I just love Dr. Mason, and I am so glad you platformed her again. For various reasons, her voice strikes me as one of the most important/impactful in this field. I hope her presence is magnified in the near future as this is such a pivotal time vis a vis controlling just HOW on the wrong side of history we end up before course-correcting.
We agree. Thanks for your comment. We’ll make sure Julia sees this 💕
I just love her too. One day I was watching her do an interview and I thought boy I remember her from something ..from somewhere and then during the interview she mentioned she was a doctor in a certain area of Wisconsin for a period of time and all of a sudden I remembered she was my kid's doctor and I liked her so much but she moved away. Very memorable doctor to me
@@1976mcfarlane oh my gosh...that is so cool! that's one lucky kid.
A complete and utter scandal.
It's always a pleasure to listen to Sasha and Stella!
Thanks so much!
Not just that they are 'pre-gay' children as Julia said but the vast majority are autistic and/or traumatised children! This isn't mentioned often enough I think.
Or simply non sex stereotypical girls and boys. Sex stereotypes, which themselves, change with different cultures and thru time). How many women do you know now, who were called "tomboys" as children and may still be "gender no conforming" yet are now heterosexual married mothers as adults?
This was one of your most essential interviews. It was causing significant cognitive dissonance to be believe something felt wrong yet the "professional" associations were say "problem? What problem? Trust us we have the lab coat"
thanks for your comment
An anti-“conversion therapy” bill has just been put forth in my state of New South Wales in Australia. It’s so upsetting and as a lesbian I will be writing to my representatives to try and stop this harmful bill. But sadly, similar bills have succeeded in other states. 😢
🙄 who cares
Glad to hear you're going to be writing in about it. Thanks for your comment - we hope to cover more AU/NZ news soon!
@@mr.mclibtard5015I care
@@mr.mclibtard5015 People of good heart and intent care.
@@isoldam
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
The river-crossing metaphor is gold.
From crying chickens to reversing ferrets, sums up the AAP pretty well
I disagree with letting medical boards make recommendations. It is clear that the professional organizations are bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. When professionals don’t follow the science or use evidenced based medication I think we do need the legislature to step in to protect children and in some cases providers from harming children!
Except that the legislature is also captured. The problem is what to do when every aspect of society (or rather power and influence in society) is completely corrupt.
@@lilith3953the goal should be to balance power between the legislature and the professional boards. Both have a role to play to check each other in case things go awry. Just like how our government works by splitting the powers into 3 different branches that interact with each other.
Or at least have them accountable in some way to outside objective reviews... some oversight. Like the Cass review. Especially something like this that has such potential for severe injury
This was such a wonderful conversation that expresed everything I feel and am concerned about so incredibly clearly. And I love the support and compassin in the tone. So much support for you all!
I am wondering if there is any conversation around after care? Dealing with the physical and physcological results of both tran who are happy (but have to deal with complications) and detransitioners? I am dealing with physical aftercare as a musculoskeletal therapist.
This is actually very important. You might want to take a look at Genspect and BeyondTrans.org for resources around this issue
@@widerlenspod Thank You!
Cantor's findings should have been front-page news in the MSM and first headline on all TV Newscasts.
Agreed!
Isn't it true that the new director (president, whatever) of the AAP is a doctor with clear conflicts of interest, because he's an investor in a "gender" clinic. For the 23 years of my early childhood teaching career, I witnessed 5 young children ideate a cross-sex persona, then abandon it. In all of those cases, the parents were attention-seeking.
We haven't heard this. If you have a credible source or link, please share
I will see what I can do. I believe it was detailed in The Daily Signal. @@widerlenspod
So very informative! Thank you so much. I’m concerned for our distressed vulnerable young people in foster care and in general . Thank you.
thank you!
It's frightening just how little evidence professionals in various fields have requested by trainees in their field and how far they then go to shore up their unprofessionalism in failing to interrogating the trainee and their own lack of understanding.
I'm getting the impression there are some either very simple minded people at the top of the AAP or they are simply very evil. I never believed in evil until I discovered this phenomenon of injuring children.
We suspect apathy plays a big role here. Specialization discourages physicians from deeply researching areas outside their field. It seems a very small and very loud ideological cohort is steering the entire ship here. Thanks for your comment
Aren't AGP also attracted to transwomen and feminization? I remember Blaire White and Buck Angel saying lots of gender doctors being attracted to their patients.
And transition of kids helps to separate transsexuality from sexuality. It helps transsexuality to be seen as something "innate" that happens even in kids.
At this point affirming treatment is being taught in medical school. And they have already acquired the apathy from trans friend they met as undergrads and medical students. So they will become drs. Only being taught and only experiencing one treatment, affirming.
I felt the same listening to this- the AAP’s willful ignorance, the avoidance of Pediatricians work and research when it goes against Rafferty’s work…and then the creation of more & more restrictive and unnecessary rules to hide the research… it’s very disturbing that this is intentional. I hope the systematic review of Rafferty’s extremely biased work is successful.
@@jessicaguilbeau5125 the same for students wanting to become therapists.
'Reverse-ferret' - backing out of a narrow tunnel you have gone down - sometimes with force - because there is no room to turn around and come out from it, which you have now realised is now essential.
Thank you for another interesting video. I wonder if the AAP is going to tell us who is carrying out the systematic review.
Good question! We're wondering the same thing
I also don’t agree that legislators should make these decisions but to be fair, the medical associations are doing a horrible job. It leaves patients with no confidence in their doctors. What are they supposed to do?
None of them are free from monetary influence.
Totally heard penis growers too 😮
Right after that I totally heard boobs when she meant booths.
Hurrah! A new episode. Love listening to you guys. Best podcast shining a light and clarity through the current gender phenomenon
This Arabic word refers to strife, more generally, and can be applied to both males and females. (Sasha here)
This would explain the legalization of rape in the state of Minnesota by Attorney General Kieth Ellison and how the LBGTQ cult is the back door of how women loose their rights. Perhaps it was never a good idea for laws to protect sexual diviners were created ? It don’t look good in Europe will it look better in America ? Probably not . Cutting children breast off is mutilation in much the same as female genital mutilation. Thanks for connecting the dots.
I was confused for the first twenty minutes. Then I figured out what side of this debacle you are on. Good. Got my sub.
Thanks for subscribing and watching!
Another brilliant interview by Sasha and Stella. Keep up the great work Dr. Mason. I always find it fascinating when mechanisms of any organization (AAP) used to control the constituency are revealed. I only hope that there are more school board members, physicians, counselors and therapists reading this information. I know they are out there and agree.
thanks!
I am a mother to 4 adults, 3 on the Autistic Spectrum. I am a California native with all 4 of my kids attending a selection of CA public schools, half using services for special needs.
During this time, we had many horrific moments of my kids coming home throwing fits because the kids around them were already discussing porn, sexual identity, acts of sex, etc, by 5th grade. These experiences only became worse into Jr high & high school.
If a CHILD did not profess to watch porn, be at least bisexual & be open to idiotic & dangerous experimental casual sex, they were deemed uncool, a leper.
It got so bad all of my kids asked to homeschool.
I was involved with local & online groups to support spectrum kids. I can't tell you how many times I heard this same story from all over the country.
If anyone thinks for one moment a child can be coheorced into believing they are not their biological sex, biological sex doesn't exist AND these medical procedures are a healthy way of life, but they can't be groomed to be attracted to the same sex, you are missing everything happening under the boil.
This phenomenon is NOT a surge of gay kids. This is the result of decades of rainbow casual sex culture festering into an oozing septic wound.
My kids are now 25 to 32. Not one is bisexual, gay, poly, blah blah blah.
These children are NOT inherently pre gay. They are being groomed into casual sex culture & all the confusion & perverts which gladly fish there have free reign.
Good show. Thank you ladies. 🐿
Glad you enjoyed it
Terms sex and gender keep sliding in and out in this conversation. So revealing how the shell game works.
My QUESTION remains how the heck did the Rafferty resolution ever get endorsed as the AAP's policy statement published in 2018. Are you suggesting it was actually voted on and a majority of the 60,000+ members actually endorsed the policy statement. What was the actual vote?
It really seems the broader membership needs to wake up and realize that a member's ability to engage the broader membership has been slowly scaled back and a 16 member board is essentially steering the ship. It sounds like there is a need to make changes: your rules around governance (it seems to reflect People Party in China), the elected representatives or launch a lawsuit given the actions of the executives opens the membership up to liability based on:
1. the fallacies (weakness) of the initial research;
2. it is clearly resulting in the harm of patients and
3. it is out of step with national boards of health across Europe.
Really interesting conversation. I'm sure you've spoken to Dr Will Malone, but I'm keen to know what similar manoeuvres have been taking place in the endocrine society?
Yes, he came on at the very beginning of the podcast, but it would be great to check back in with him!
AAP is at risk for liability as they have been part of many amici briefs supporting the medicalization of children and youth.
Where is the criminal prosecution of the group of 16 and civil lawsuits? I simply do not understand the lack of accountability for a body to put out a clearly harmful position statement that can be treated as directions to membership and ultimately beomes leverage (justification) for questionable purposes in addition to being used by individual pediatricians as part of some legal cover for doctors actions and essentially failing to do no harm. There was a time women were prescribed thalidomide and suddenly it was realised it was a bad idea.
I've relied on this great podcast so much in the last few years, and I'm so grateful that I found you. This episode is such a good one because it encapsulates what happened to the American pediatric trade organization being somehow co-opted. 😧
And how they basically chucked their previous careful methodology and okayed affirmative care, willy-nilly!!
🤷🏻 wtf.
(Thank you Julia for your persistence I love it)
Many of us who have been affected by this personally, apparently know better than the people running the AAP. I've been inspired to finish my letter to them and lend them my "lay person's" expertise. thank you again Sasha and Stella!! 🫅
We’re so glad to hear the podcast is helpful! Thanks for your comment
After watching that woman in the Matt Welsh documentary I came away shocked and horrified that not only is she a medical doctor but that she is in charge of prescribing incredibly dangerous drugs and surgeries to young children she clearly has an ideology and agenda she's dangerous and I hope somebody is doing something to have her medical license taken away and hopefully her and her ill will be wind up in jail eventually They are monsters
Reverse ferret (Urban Dictionary) "To suddenly go back on a decision. As used by Private Eye to describe when a government or media outlet suddenly changes its mind about something"
If the Cass review already exists, covering the same ground , could it be the foundations for what the Pediatrics body does, speeding it up? Or is that too obvious?
You guys need a member's online voting system.
I’m feeling hopeful! But then I am an optimist!
Sounds eerily similar to the BACP processes for submitting resolutions and motto the AGM! I created a group called BACP Pushback a while ago, we submitted many R&M around GII in therapy and the need to be more balanced in Therapy Today, policies etc, they were all dropped, and in BACP that means the leadership team decide they are not putting them through for member voting! None on ours were put forward, so members don’t even get to see them let alone vote on them, they don’t publish R&Ms submitted unless they are selected by the leadership team! It’s all so cloak and dagger we all got virtually the same rejection email, it’s just so undemocratic
Indeed! Most therapists don't agree with these extreme positions, and neither do most pediatricians. Hi Terry!
@@widerlenspod Hi Sasha/Stella I always watch Wider Lens
Is the AAP different than the MEDICAL BOARD? Can the Medical Boards be appealed to for the systemic evidence based research.
It’s an organization of and for professionals. Not a medical bird. Thanks for watching
The chicken lady.......thank you for that gem!
While it is surprising about the "new new rule" needing a sponsor to get comments, and then the 'newer new rule" blocking comments of "roaming comments". This is the very system that is working to obfuscate the decision making on so many issues, in so many areas.Title IX.
As a UK citizen - I am both dismayed and fascinated at the rabbit hole America (via the AAP) has got itself trapped in ….. BTW you use ferrets to flush out rabbits. The issue from the AAP leadership perspective must be not only a loss of face … but also potential loss of credibility and more damaging litigation and liability for damage caused. I love the river analogy though.
Thanks for clarifying! Ya learn something new every day :)
I cannot get my head around why doctors and teachers, the very two professions who we need to be the most trustworthy, have turned out to be the least trustworthy by the speed at which they have raced to embrace this trans business.
Survey of pediatricians is a good idea but a grass root local push is essential. Go back and replace the disingenuous "executive" that dismissed you in the first place. Coalesce local representation so you have a voice.
Thanks for sharing, very insightful.
Glad it was helpful!
This episode needs a better title. "Will the AAP review the research?" I almost didn't watch it because of the title.
When I hear "child-led" I honestly wonder if these ppl have met children or remember their own childhood at all.
Where on Earth do they think children get information from?! Kids will tell you girls do x because their mum does or boys do y because their brother does. If they meet one French guy who is enthusiastic about rugby they think French ppl like rugby. I've had kids think I cycle from my home country to work at the school across the sea every day and back again. Kids tell you they're tigers or pirates or popstars or made of spaghetti. And they look to the adults for approval and reassurance. They look for how you respond to ideas and adjust behaviour accordingly. I seriously wonder about the adults who think "child-led" is a even possible and don't realize how much they're introducing regressive ideas about sex and gender into the kid's head and reinforcing behaviours by praising them for following along with it.
Exactly! Why don't they recommend and all ice cream and candy diet for children, as that's what the children want!
great point
It is too optimistic to say that all the Scandinavian countries have come to their senses.
On the 17th of April 2024, the Swedish parliament voted for a bill
(despite there being serious concern about the consequences of such a bill,
perhaps even a majority against the bill, but the party whip is hard,
and one member of Moderaterna (from which the PM comes) lost his job
because he voted against the party line) that allows people from the age of 16
to legally change their gender/sex (English differentiates sex from gender,
Swedish doesn't), even their personal number (sort of a social security number,
that includes information about sex) without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.
I am not looking forward to this at all.
In addition to the concerns that one might have about social transitioning
being a road that leads to medical transition (concerns that I have for others),
I am worried about women-only spaces (a concern that I have for my daughters,
myself and every other woman in this country).
Brava~ wonderful podcast.Don't enlist, resist false promises of facile joy;
Take your own trip
In your own ship.
(Poem by Poonam Srivastava in 9 tweets.
Love this, thank you!
Very informative discussion. The speculation regarding the timing of the release of the findings of the systematic review made me wonder if the 2024 elections are also a factor to consider. Given the fact that Democrats have tied their fortunes to gender affirming care.
I was very sympathetic towards sex transitioners (although I found it very strange)
when they had to go through years and years of evaluations and therapy.
In the days when they were at most a handful a year and almost exclusively males
who had been adamant from infancy that they were not boys.
When I realised that there was not just a handful of wannabe transitioners
and that the patient group had completely changed, I saw that it was mass psychosis.
So little evidence!! It’s all just an idea; a belief system. What’s happened with this whole movement (being trans) is pure insanity
thanks for watching
Trans is not something you are. It's something you do.
Is someone deleting comments??? I had a comment discussing my concerns about “true trans” narrative and it’s gone after 5 minutes…
UA-cam, unfortunately seems to be deleting comments. We have never deleted anyone's comment
Thank you for this. Fundamentals of gender care... That would be a good title for an article or talk on reasonable gender care :-)
Thanks for watching!
It's fine to say you don't want legislators telling doctors what to do and I agree with her it's not ideal. However pediatricians have epically FAILED to provide safe and reasonable guidance on this issue. Better for somebody anybody to protect children than no one at all.
Sadly, what Sasha said is becoming truer and truer in society; we're being taught that people really do change sex just by "presenting" in a different way. Obviously, it's important to treat people with respect, and I always use the names and pronouns that trans and nonbinary people I know prefer. But for most of them, I knew them before they transitioned, so it's not as if I actually believe they're the opposite sex. It's just a social norm, like saying someone has blond hair when you know it's not naturally blond.
I dye my hair red, and have done for most of my adult life, but I never claim to be a red head, and if people refer to me as one I correct them, because I'm not a red head. There are a whole set of experiences that go along with have naturally red hair (especially as a child), and dying your hair red as an adult gives you a completely different set of experiences. It's simply not the same thing. Not genetically, and not in terms of the experience.
Great analogy!
Its like your 75 yr old mother feeling like a 30 yr old, getting cosmetic surgery to look as much like a 30 yr old woman as possible, getting her documentation changed to say she is a 30yr old woman, and requiring everyone else to affirm that she is now a 30 yr old woman.
And you are 45.
How can it be so simple for your average ley person to gather and find and sift through the available information and come to the rational conclusion that this entire thing has gotten entirely out of control and that people are being willfully harmed and then willfully ignored by those that are harming them, all in the name of "inclusion" and "affirmation"? Its ridiculous and apathy is not a viable excuse for why the people who are actually capable of inflicting this on children as well as the only ones capable of protecting them (ie the medical and psychology/psychiatric types) are so widely unable to figure out how terribly wrong this is. Why are the ones with the education so obtuse and uninformed????
We think some people truly believe it's the "right thing" even if the evidence doesn't bear this out.
@@widerlenspod it's very hard for me to fathom how completely ideologically captured the entire educational system, from kindy to college, must be in order to produce adults completely incapable of thinking critically enough to realize what is going on here. You would have to suffer practically lifelong brainwashing or indoctrination not realize that sterilizing children might be a bad idea. I'm just mind blown by this entire thing. I've learned so much about the roots of wpath for example, among other things, that it's impossibly apparent how little of this has to do with helping people. I just can't understand how they can be so convinced. It worries me for this nation (US) and the western world as a whole.
Is it still too taboo to point out that the field of psychology is now overwhelmingly female, who are known to be more influenced by chicken tears?
Upsetting that Stella & Sasha got involved in writing a protest letter to the AAP last year before they even understood what the AAP is …SEGM needs to be lean & mean. Genspect should scale back bc the cultural differences are rather vast and not being careful about who signs demands to American docs and educators is foolish. Julia Mason needs to be in charge of this shizz she knows what's up & drs listen to Drs. Not « anti trans activist psychotherapists »
Same goes for education etc.
The cynicism around the number of over 18s on PBs is understandable, but at least some AGPs push for them up to early 20s. 2nd puberty fantasies yada yada
You refer to Matt Walsh and want to be taken seriously. You’re over
clearly, AAP is make dominated... women didn't push this, but some like Forcier...were trained to fleece the flock with gender id..and she complied with transhumanism boyz