EP 117: Gender, Parents, and Public Schools with Kate Parker
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2023
- This episode is the first of several episodes dedicated to exploring what is happening with gender in schools and education systems. Schools are becoming more and more of a focus for parents and citizens who pay close attention to identity politics.
In this episode, Stella and Sasha chat with Kate Parker, a high school educator and library director at a private school with over 16 years of service as an elected trustee to K-12 and community college boards of education. Kate recently stepped down from her position as the President of the Santa Barbara City College Board of Education in California and is the parent of an adult trans-identified child.
In their conversation, you’ll hear Stella, Sasha, and Kate discuss how and when Kate noticed things changing and her observations of gender coming into the school system. They explore the triangulation that happens in families when schools keep secrets from parents and how destructive that can be. Kate offers advice to parents feeling too afraid or too confused to speak out. She also shares how school systems and school boards operate, insights into the responsibilities of schools and how that impacts their response to curriculum changes and reactions to it, and about how there is a chain of trust in the perceived “experts” advising on curriculum themes and trends.
Links:
Kohlberg Demonstrations:
• Video
Genspect Resources for Schools:
Brief Guidance For Schools
genspect.org/guidance-for-sch...
Brief Guidance For Colleges And Universities
genspect.org/guidance-for-col...
Brief Guidance On Social Transition
genspect.org/guidance-on-soci...
School Policy: Gender Identity (USA)
genspect.org/comprehensive-ge...
School Policy: Sexual Orientation And Gender Identity (Ireland)
genspect.org/school-policy-se...
If you liked this episode, more episodes you might find interesting:
Gender & Schools | GWL Episode Playlist
• Gender and Schools
This episode is the first episode being added to this playlist, so if you’re tuning in soon after the release of this episode, this playlist will seem sparse - we encourage you to bookmark the playlist for future reference as more episodes are added throughout the remainder of Season 3.
Episode 93 - A Takedown of Gender Politics: Wesley Yang
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate...
Episode 88 - Gender: Philosophy, Institutions, and Policy w/ Leor Sapir
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate...
Episode 78 - Affirming Reality for Kids w Stephanie Davies-Arai
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate...
Episode 71 - Gender: The American State of Affairs w Jesse Singal
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate...
Please visit www.widerlenspod.com to explore more content, access additional resources, or to join our listener community.
Watch us on UA-cam: / @widerlenspod
For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups:
Sasha Ayad: inspiredteentherapy.com/paren...
Stella O’Malley: www.stellaomalley.com/parent-c...
To learn more about our sponsors, visit:
GETA: genderexploratory.com
ReIME: rethinkime.org
Genspect: genspect.org
This topic gives me PTSD. It brings me back to when we explicitly told our daughter's middle school that our ROGD daughter was not a boy, they were not to use her made-up name, nor were they to use masculine pronouns when referring to her. We also said that she could not use spaces that were designated for boys/men, and if she were assaulted (either at the school or outside the school) that we would hold them responsible. I was told that it didn't matter what my husband and I wanted, the only thing that mattered was her declared gender. It's been two years and she's still listed in the school system as a boy. It's very weird. We are at an impasse. We won't sign anything with incorrect information. We can't get her a school ID that shows her legal name, and her high school diploma will have her fake name. At home and with family friends she's our daughter. She’s becoming more and more comfortable in her own skin; likely gay. Now that the pandemic has passed, she's happy, social, and doing extremely well in school, although still living this double life. We’re seeing more and more signs of desistance. I, however, am still traumatized. I’ve completely lost trust in all institutions. It's an extremely lonely and destabilizing experience for parents who are not willing to go along to get along.
How old is she? If she's 18 or nearing 18, there's not much you can do. Since transition, detransition, and retransition are becoming ever more common, I don't think the diploma issue a very big at all. If she does desist, then just have her request a new diploma. It seems to me that your larger issue is with your daughter and not the school.
@@John-tr5hn my issue is with the school. My daughter was/is a child and was/is going along with what she was taught and the wider culture. The school explicitly took away my parental rights to raise and protect my child as I see fit. I will never forgive them.
I am sorry the schools are no longer trusted institutions. Honestly it's heartbreaking. I live in los angeles and I feel like these activists are destroying childhood education.
You need to pull her out of school, move out of state if need be.
Thank you for sharing this. We definitely will be including more voices and perspectives about the school issue. Sadly your experience is not an isolated one. Many families have been completely sidelined by their schools.
Great conversation. I am not letting teachers completely off-the-hook. I totally appreciate the vast majority are awesome and can get overwhelmed with all the "additional" stuff being thrust on them. There is a pocket of radicals; however, "gender" should be treated just like "suspected cases of child abuse". Red flag goes up and a Principal is advised ASAP. There is no "clinical relationship" here that is treated special. Its over to the Principal to assess the situation, provide staff direction and take action - normally engage parents. If there is a fear of abuse it goes to proper authorities; otherwise engage parents. Never is it acceptable to keep information or make decision on behalf of a minor child without engaging a proper authority.
Your recognition of the difficult position schools are in is really helpful for seeing past the rhetoric to the more nuanced problems being dealt with.
One of the main drivers of conflict seems to be that the internet has become the de facto education provider, giving kids an alternative source of authority.
Perverts on the Internet define our reality
she's extremely well spoken and level headed. thank you for having her on, and thank you for being on the program! I narrowly escaped this paradigm shift in education, and wow am I grateful for that. All this makes me wonder what will happen to the kids who learned about gender identity in school? It seems to me that once you hold gender identity as a framework for understanding the world, you cut off any understanding of history prior to about 1990, which makes any study of politics, economics, science, culture nearly impossible
Excellent framing of this dire issue. I have been trying to say this very thing and I could never put it as succinctly as you’ve done here. Thank you. This is critically important and the consequences are going to be epic.
That’s the point
The irony I find is that historical third genders across the world don't fit into this ideology at all. Basically they'd need to write trans ppl out of history to then write themselves back in and pretend other ppl they like were also trans when they weren't. We've already seen this with the rewriting of stonewall.
I believe that there are instances where there is intention to infiltrate the schools with the gender theory and "get them as early as possible." We have activists who are invited into staff meetings to train about this new way of "believing" about gender. There is a push to do this that does not feel like a response to culture (albeit there are those who are very well meaning but not well informed). It comes in under the guise of inclusive and diverse (in my case our school was already doing a real good job around this without introducing gender theory to primary to grade 4). If the goal was truly to be inclusive and diverse they would be open to discussion which they say they were until I gave another view from a mental health perspective. I received a threat to be an enthusiastic member of the GSA Club and teach this in the classrooms or else....I refused.
1:04:47 this statement needs qualification! When many of us here "banning books" in this context, we have extremely inappropriate materials targeted to children in mind.
Kate here, and yes, absolutely. I've talked on Twitter about how appropriate it is for parents to question a librarian's collection development decisions and how a school should have a challenge policy that allows parents to bring forward their specific concerns. A good policy will require the parent to have read the book and share the exact passages that they feel are inappropriate. Some of the books in school libraries have indeed been very sexually explicit in ways that raise red flags for me. I would not have put that book on my library's shelves. My frustration has been with state laws coming in, like Florida's, where any parent demand means a book is automatically removed from shelves for review on the vaguest grounds, often for mentioning race or LGBT topics in ways that are pretty anodyne.
@@Klgparker67 Fascinating! Thank you for that.
Interesting on the books. I’m interviewing a father very involved in the book issues, in Florida. It’s actually not easy at all to have books removed. And the process is exactly as Kate says. Parents give excerpts and books are still kept. I thought Florida would be easier, was surprised it’s really not.
I love this interview overall, and the transgender ideology being taught in schools is not grass roots, it's top down.
It seems to me that the books would reinforce what is seen online. Along with the teaching, would reinforce what's online. It could make the job of teaching one's child a different view, the family's values,
that much more difficult. I imagine there are good books to teach a variety of male, female expression without getting into the controversial gender theory?
Yessss! Congratulations. This episode was like the missing link that I was looking for to better understand some aspects of the current transgender conundrum. I loved the way this soft and compassionate woman framed it as a clash of views that it is possible to approach in a non confrontional way. (even if you don't agree at all with one of the views!)
I went to the school counselor for help because a group of mean girls were preventing all others from using the bathroom. The counselor started right off with: "why do you feel like you hate your parents?" I laughed
Everyone needs to read Louise Bates Ames book series on child brain developmental stages. Especially the books on four and five year olds. At that age every child identifies most closely with the opposite sex parent. It's a natural stage of development.
«How do you know you're a boy and will grow up into a man?»
«…my parents told me.»
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and what if the parents didn't tell him that?
😲
The problem is that kids grow up quick. Days or months fighting your kids school is days or months where your kid is soaking daily in gender indoctrination. Damage is done or partially done while the battle wages
Yes. And I believe it’s compounded by school social transition which, in many cases concretizes an exploration stage.
Ok so I haven't had the chance to listen to the episode yet, but the facial expressions in the preview thumbnail are *priceless*.
I know right? Stella, like myself, reveals her thoughts and beliefs through those expressions.
"roles and behaviors" means "stereotypes."
I feel so sad for the kids who are so focused on identity and labels instead of focusing on passions, interests and talents and figuring out who they are through that…. I’d be confused if I was a kid. I wouldn’t think I had a gender identity either, I just don’t believe in it.
Rubbish saying parents aren't informed about this is insulting. They are indoctrinating kids and don't say they aren't my local school has a pride flag on their school sign and permanently have a pride flag under the countrys flag ALL YEAR. Don't say it's not indoctrinating it is without doubt. Maybe you don't understand the significance of signs and symbols on human psychy . Propaganda is what you just spouted , control on local level is laughable and not real.
My district trained our staff to focus on cultural transformation and not academics.
Parents shouldn’t have to take off work. Publish the sex curriculum online. No secrets.
wow, i had no idea that kid on the cover of national geographic desisted. why did no one cover that!? seems like a pretty big deal if you ask me! jeez
I think it's because Avery now identifies as non-binary, is still going to state legislatures advocating for gender drugs and surgeries for minors, and a lot of people have simply not noticed that this teen is the same one that was on the cover of the National Geographic. My hope for Avery is that there's some opportunity to simply be a teen--this is a case where there's a very dominant mom pushing the publicity and advocacy work.
@@peavy6106 Isn't it safe to assume that a parent is pulling the strings whenever a child becomes famous for any reason? Child stars have child-star-parents.
12:26 can anyone give the search term to find these videos of James? I remember watching this video a while back but now I can't seem to find it.
Kate tried to retrieve them and also couldn't locate them, unfortunately!
@@widerlenspod they're linked above under Kohlberg Demonstrations: ua-cam.com/video/luqSuuPSEOM/v-deo.htmlsi=mtk9BXVy-vZa1_mC
Overall I really enjoyed this, great conversation. I would push back a bit when she says “this isn’t coming from the schools the schools reflect society” I do believe that is true but It has also been my experience that teachers..mostly newer teachers that have started in the last 10 years or so are one of the groups most indoctrinated with this ideology. Within that ideology there is usually a lack of either tolerance or even awareness of different opinions, they have mentioned it multiple times in this conversation. I’ll go a step further and say that even stating a very mild opinion that disagrees with the narrative will get you branded some sort of awful person. When you have teachers who think that way and then school policy, literature, curriculum that is more and more going that direction as well then I don’t think you can honestly say it’s not coming from the school.
I understand the need to keep your child in your life and say whatever to keep them in your life, but she tries to walk both lines, and you just can't do this with this ideology. She says her kid got the idea from school friends. HELLO. I stopped the interview once she kept referring to her child as trans. Her kid was told about gender ideology from classmates, and those same ideas are now being circulated in schools from teachers. It's one the in same today.
I think you're as right as you are wrong. Since you didn't listen through, can I suggest you listen from 45:01 or so?
She says some interesting and important stuff about parental responsibility. I'm sure you'll find something valuable in what she has to say, even though she's not as rabidly anti-ideology in her choice of words as you or I might prefer. ❤️
- 52:22
- 58:18
Good chat. Mixed feels Kate though. I'm detecting too many clashing details. 🐿
I disagree that "schools are reflecting society" No, Schools are a tool of social change, laying the grounding for the way the future generations build and shape future society. Schools, as other social institutions, are leaders, and should realize that and step up to it
My sisters second husband children were trans ftm and gay male. I find the trans so baffling and fascinating so many types under the trans umbrella. But the surgeries sound so horrifying. And some of the destransisters storys are so sad.
Personally I had a hard enough time getting my kid to brush her teeth and be in bed at the appropriate time. I would have had zero time to devote to fighting the school on this ! I recommend putting any child in a private school that does not tolerate this. Who has the time or energy to fight the school when you have a full time job and a home to run !
Sex is predictive of Gender.Gender is binary much more vague fuzzy,based on behaviour,traits, interests, abilities,appearance, clothes,variabke ocer time and space. Think of 2 overlapping BELL CURVES (statistics of prve.alence of above). Ideolgues play arond with thes words to confuse.
Oh my gosh, this advice is terrible. If you mention reservations about ANY curriculum, you are branded a "problem parent" a bigot, a reactionary, retrograde, and any input you give is completely dismissed.
Another reason not to live in California
Love the podcast but I'd like to see you and other youtubers generally stop doing the "I'm listening in an empathetic way" huuuuummmm thing. I understand it is probably genuine, but it doesn't sound genuine, it is just a phrase that repeats itself, and it kind of sucks the bounce and dynamics out of a natural conversation.